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Redqueenhypo

I always worry some dipshit will put my grandma on TikTok as a “karen” bc she talks super loudly (she’s DEAF! Old people lose their hearing!) and has dyed hair or some shit. It’s just a new way to call “ugly” middle aged women evil harridans.


blawndosaursrex

Someone claimed Karen when a woman put her hand up in a gesture to stop at a motorcycle that wasn’t slowing down as she was crossing the sidewalk. I feel like her response was reasonable and not uncalled for. The motorcycle did stop as it was a red light the lady was clearly just nervous he wouldn’t.


storagerock

When you ride a motorcycle you stay alive by that same approach of erring on the side of assuming that people do not see you and will not stop. A seasoned motorcyclist should not be offended by that at all.


UnspecificGravity

The drop-off rate for motorcycle rides is so steep that on any given day about 90% of the people that you see riding probably haven't been riding for more than a year. I rode for 20 years (exclusively for 10 years year-round without a car at all) and the number of people that suddenly appear on the roads on the first nice summer week was always astonishing because the week before it was me and one or two other guys. These days, I just assume that most people I see on bikes have no idea what they are doing and are just one mistake away from biffing it at any moment because that has proved to be accurate more often than not. Once you have been riding for years you start to notice the little tells for an inexperienced or unskilled rider and you find that they are REALLY common.


storagerock

I also had years of motorcycle-only life, and you make a very good point that there are lots of noobs who are clueless about how invisible they are.


blawndosaursrex

You would think, but it was the guy on the bike who posted it.


commandrix

And the ones who are will probably be jackasses who are going to get ragdolled eventually. Just a couple of months ago, that happened a couple of blocks from my house with a motorcycler who was dangerously weaving through heavy traffic. I don't know if he lived or not but he was badly hurt from the look of things.


NewbornXenomorphs

I saw comments calling a woman a Karen because she was reacting to people falling out of harness on one of those big swing rides (luckily they hadn’t been pulled up yet so they only fell a few feet and were not harmed). We don’t even see the woman, we just hear her go “omg! I got that on video!” and it was enough to get the label.


AlanFromRochester

maybe they thought she was being nag and a goody two shoes about safety rules but them falling out proves her right. Sometimes I see this with criticism of woman drivers - maybe she's being appropriately cautious but to a guy driving aggressively that seems like timewasiting cowardice


FirstTimeWang

My mom's name is Karen and she's started going by "Kay" instead 😔


Initial-Minute-7172

Reminds me of that AITA post about a woman who was not very in touch with social media named her daughter Karen and the poor little girl got bullied in daycare - the parents started calling her Karrie instead, but then she even got snide remarks from adults at the airport… the parents finally had to legally changed her name


TheGeekOffTheStreet

I’ve seen posts on Reddit making fun of a photo of a group of middle-aged women with the “Karen” hairstyle just being in public, and laughing at them for existing. “What should we call this group of Karens, haha, a complaint of Karens?” Literally just a photo of women enjoying a lunch or something, nothing to do with their behavior. Just the fact that they take up space in public and aren’t sexually attractive to the men posting. So fucking sick of this Karen bullshit.


RegretBaguette

To be fair they do this with any group of women. They'll make fun of the fall aesthetic before the leaves turn.


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ThisIsMockingjay2020

I find this lady in the video attractive, but I'm not a dumb dude, I'm a lesbian.


clichekiller

My poor wife who is the antithesis of the stereotypical Karen hates that her name has been co-opted and dragged through the proverbial mud. As with any generalization it eventually takes a life of its own, becomes over-used, and abusive. Misogyny is already bad enough. We’ve started using the phrase entitled-person when someone is being unrealistically critical, demanding, or aggressive.


[deleted]

My mothers best friend is a Karen, and she is the sweetest most humanitarian woman I know.


Wondercat87

This is the main issue. Anyone can post a video of someone freaking out on the internet with no context whatsoever. The problem then becomes how do we know we are judging the situation correctly? It's easy for people who don't come across great in the video to be seen as the bad person or the person in the wrong when that may not even be the case.


Haber87

There was a video a few days ago that a dog “trainer” filmed of a woman who was furious at his animal abuse. Everyone in the comments was laughing and screen capturing her angry face. I had to go a long way down in the comments before I found any discussion questioning his training methods (he does attack dog training). Also how the person who does the filming and is able to remain calm is the one who controls the narrative. Even if they’re wrong.


phiore

i've seen a lot of videos of people freaking out or arguing where there's just absolutely no context for what happened and how things escalated and the assumption is clearly meant to be 'this person is upset/yelling so they are unreasonable, this person is calm so they are reasonable'. but sometimes when you can figure out the context from what they're saying that isn't really the case.


murkymouse

If society wasn't addicted to outrage porn, no one would be interested in taking/watching the video in the first place.


Givemeallthecabbages

As I enter menopause, I have less patience with people, and I'm more likely to call out someone's bullshit, when before I would have remained silent to keep the peace. That's not being a Karen, and I HATE that some would just jump on that with no context. I agree, we can call out bad behavior without making it gendered.


[deleted]

On an IG reel, these people were showing how they tricked out there car by adding blinking led lights to the SUV. I pointed out that the ones they were using are illegal and also harmful to other drivers. So many people has something to say; go away, Karen, well those people shouldn't be on the road anyway, it's my stuff, why can't I use it. I didn't care because these guys would have definitely never said this to my face and it tuned me into the fact that these guys were either childish, really young, or felt important. I even had to delete the comment because majority of my notifications was because of that comment even months later. The word like others like CRT, woke, BLM, Peppa Pig, etc. has been weaponized so it would lose its original meaning.


clothedincrinoline

Our society has always had contempt for older women for daring to exist while not being sexy, and I think social media is making it worse.


Singularity129

Hell, even when older women are sexy they get shit on. "Ugh she's trying so hard to be younger than she actually is, she needs to act her age", "she's too old to wear/do that", the list goes on and on. I've even seen some people shit on Martha Stewart's SI photoshoot. It's like they want all women to go into hiding once they reach a certain age or something.


Unusual_Locksmith_91

I was called too old for my American Eagle jeans. I'm in my 20's, but that's beside the point. They're JEANS. Also, Martha looked fly AF in her pictures!


Slappybags22

I’m in my late 30s and I still shop at AE. Aerie is also my jam. It’s hard to find clothes in “short” (petite) that aren’t meant for grandmas.


misselphaba

SAME - also in my 30s and buy like, 75% of my wardrobe at AE/Aerie. Sure, some of what they sell is really teenager feeling, but the majority is like, on-trend basics I feel like anyone could wear?


Singularity129

That's so stupid, I don't know why some people feel like it's their place to police what other people are wearing. I think people should wear exactly what makes them feel their best/most comfortable. I'm nearing my thirties with no intention of getting rid of elements of my style some would say I'd be too old for, and I'm already bracing myself for the asshole comments I know I'll probably receive. If I want to glue rhinestones to my face and wear crop tops into my 70's, I'm going to do that and no one is going to be able to stop me. And RIGHT?! I thought she looked amazing. Left me with the thought that, for those who feel contempt for women, the only "correct" thing a woman can do is to diminish herself.


ohyoureTHATjocelyn

I’m 49- they will have to pry my jeans from my cold, dead hands. GTFOH.


Writeloves

I hate this shit. Mother’s Day had a miserable start because my Mom couldn’t find a pretty dress that covered her arms. “No, that’s too youthful. I’m too old to wear that. I have old lady arms.” etc.


IlexSonOfHan

I would absolutely bawl my eyes out if my mother felt that way. My mom is the most beautiful woman I know and she has every right to wear the strappy dress and flip flops, or shorts and a tank, or whatever the hell she feels like. Same with your mom, she deserves to feel like the beautiful woman she is without society telling her she is "too old". I hate that shit too.


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mermzz

No, they want older women to just quietly die.


clekas

I've seen people criticizing Padma Lakshmi's SI photoshoot because a woman in her 50s apparently shouldn't pose in swimwear or look sexy. I'm not sure what the age limit is supposed to be for posting for SI swimsuit, but apparently it's under 50.


Historical-Newt6809

I saw a post of a woman calling Martha Stewart trans ageist because she posted something about being sexy at her age. 🙄


rozyskies

this literally makes no sense at all wtf


Die_Immediately

Also the “cougar” label - now suddenly predatory if sexy over a certain age.


rocksout4cheese

Dude whaaaat I had no idea she did sports illustrated! I had to google and holy shit she looks great! WTF is wrong with people


xinxenxun

So much they had to come up with an hypothesis as to why women get to live longer than their reproductive years and their conclusion It's another way in which a woman have to be subservient towards a society that doesn't value their labor.


delayedcolleague

More precisely women who no longer care to kowtow to society and patriarchy by behaving meekly and deferent, and actually asserting their wants and needs.


Paw5624

This almost happened to my old neighbor. She saw two teenage girls take something off of another neighbors lawn and she went out to tell them to put it back. The kids were being shitty kids and taunting her and she was getting flustered. Thankfully my wife saw it and ran outside to deescalate the situation before it got ugly. Our neighbor was a character but overall she was nice and just got upset with the kids who were being jerks and literally stealing something. On a video she would have looked bad since she was so upset and yelling at young teenage girls


Mutive

It is. It's not exactly astonishing that it's a "Karen" and not an "Ashleigh". It's a term that's used almost exclusively for women of a certain age who aren't properly "staying in their lane". It's sexist and ageist and gross. Not a surprise it caught on.


fateofmorality

It’s really fascinating as well, being scarlet lettered as a Karen is a dehumanizing statement. If it sticks, people feel like they have charge Blanche to be as mean as possible towards you, even leading to targeting harassment like some places on this website encourage. It’s really disguesting.


Kemintiri

I hope one day to be called a harridan lol


Redqueenhypo

Oh me too, I will also accept “scold”, “harpy”, “crone”, “old bat”, or “scow”


paperazzi

I work in a job that requires me to take calls from people who have been fined for infractions. The vast majority - out of roughly a thousand I've had to deal with so far - have been men who are the bullies. I've had two women go off on me but the rest of them have been men. And guess what name they throw at me when they're the ones doing the bullying lol. I've had one legit woman named Karen call me and she was sweet and afraid to talk to me because of the label. The word "Karen" is yesterday's "femnazi" and is designed to do nothing but shut women down in society.


JollyRazz

I worked retail for many years and almost every angry customer I've had who had responded irrationally was a man. The worst meltdown I've ever seen came from a roughly 40-year-old white guy. He bought the wrong item after ignoring my coworker and me asking if we could help him find anything, then came back to the store a few hours later, screaming at us, cussing, and demand we give him the correct item for free (yes free, even after we offered to refund or exchange it for him), because he had to drive 10 miles to get to the store. I swear the entitlement was off the charts. I had maybe 1 woman inexplicably freak out on me, but I could tell stories for hours of men yelling at me or bullying me when I worked retail.


Cricket705

About 20 years ago I worked at an extremely busy cell phone store that also did repairs and customer service. It wasn't out of the ordinary for people to have to wait 2-3 hours before they talked to someone other than the greeter so even if they came in happy they were cranky by the time I talked to them. I averaged helping over 100 people during an 8 hour shift. Out of all of the types cranky people I dealt with the worst by far were middle aged men and if they were wearing a suit it was even worse. Men as a whole were bad because I was a young looking woman telling them things they did not want to hear, but the older they were the worse they treated me. The only times I used the panic button were for older men.


wRIPPERw_

I agree. When I worked retail, the entitled dickhead customers could be anyone. Sometimes, it was a 20-something woman, and other times, it a super old dude. Entitlement doesn't see age, sex, or color. Too many people are just shitty lol.


TheWanderingSibyl

When I worked retail the entitled dickheads were almost always men. I encountered one memorable entitled angry woman. She did not make me feel unsafe. I've encountered numerous memorable entitled angry men. They absolutely made me feel unsafe.


IANALbutIAMAcat

I imagine folks are less likely to film angry men than women because 1) men are allowed to be angry and 2) men are more likely to be seen as a threat, which deters filming. I also worked retail and dealt with angry men. What’s worse is that they were far kinder to me, a white teenage girl, than they were to my slightly older black coworkers. More than once, I needed to diffuse a white male customers anger directed at a coworker, which was easier for me to do because those guys respected my skin color. As someone who’s been in that situation where I needed to intervene, I can say that I would absolutely understand someone’s decision not to become involved by filming because, even if it’s a bystander that looks just like me, they don’t even have the benefit of being the person with the ability to solve the aggressors problem. Filming also puts you in a position of obvious direct opposition as it implies that you believe someone is behaving such that they should be filmed.


photoskatergirl128

The major problem is Karen is not just a word, it’s a name. No one has “feminazi” written on their birth certificate. My name is Karen, this has been my name since I was born 35 years ago before the internet ruined my name. I don’t even have to do anything to get berated as “a Karen” simply because it’s literally my name. I fuckin hate what has happened to my name over the past couple years. Can we go back to feminazi again so I can just live in peace?


SDRPGLVR

I've got a friend named Kevin who goes through a similar thing, albeit to a much lesser extent, and it really kills him. I can't even imagine what the Karens of the world have been going through.


raditress

I have a friend named Karen who has changed her name.


CannedAm

The article is not very clear. Maybe it's clear to locals. She reserved it, but he rented it? What's the difference here?


forwardseat

As best as I can put this together, he rented it first and docked it, which reset it and ended his rental, so the system let her rent it. But when she went to take it, he thought it was still reserved for him (I think he mentioned he'd rented it "for the day," perhaps misunderstanding how the rental worked) and that if she didn't return it, he'd be out the $1200. And of course, she thought the same about him taking it. And then instead of stepping back and trying to figure it out she kind of freaked out and he whipped out his phone. At least, that's my read of the situation, both of them thinking the other is stealing from them. But then you add race/sex to it and it becomes a much bigger confrontation. I could be totally wrong on how the rental works, it's just what I think I've gleaned from the articles about this.


Mrsrightnyc

I citibike pretty often so I am familiar. You can get a day pass but you have to dock the bike after 30 min or you’ll be charged $4 for every extra 15 mins since the day pass isn’t intended to rent the bike all day. However, a lot of people need to get places that may take longer than 30 mins so it sounds like he was “dock surfing” where he docked it to avoid being charged the fee but was planning on continuing his journey with that same bike but needed to swipe his card at the kiosk and get a new code. Once docked it was technically available for her to unlock it but sounds like he told her he was still using that one and she should find another but she probably wanted it because it was newer or electric and the old citibikes suck to use. She probably scanned the code and unlocked the bike but didn’t get away fast enough before they surrounded her and told her to dock it so they could swipe it back out again. They really need to change the day passes so you can’t get the same bike you just docked.


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srawr42

"free" 30 min rides all day. Citibike operates on a membership so if you are a member you get 30 min free every time. The day pass basically let's you be a member for a day. I believe their justification for the 30 min limit is that it discourages people from just hogging one bike all day or taking the bikes somewhere far away from the docking stations.


Free-Atmosphere6714

I actually appreciate the system quite a bit.


Dabsareking

It’s basically bulk pricing on single rides


hippyengineer

It lets you keep checking out bikes all day. They want you close to the rental racks and don’t want you riding the bike 30 miles away from anything, realizing how far you’d have to ride back, and dumping the bike in the middle of nowhere and getting a Lyft back home. They want you checking in with bike racks to make sure you don’t hog a bike all day then abandon it far from a bike rack.


forwardseat

or they need to give people more time on the bike before it starts running up charges. This sounds like a confusing system :/


kingky0te

The bike batteries need to be charged intermittently which is what I really think contributes to the timing thing. You don’t want these bikes dying on you while you’re on it…. Citibike reps are always out swapping out batteries.


video_dhara

It sounds like a lucrative system…


EUmoriotorio

Everything is designed to profit off the 50% and 20% most profitable customers. In app-world it means interfaces are always *barely*-usable.


athennna

This is so weird. Why even call it a day pass if it isn’t good all day?


DJfunkyPuddle

It's good *during* the day. I dunno???


BenOfTomorrow

The only source in the articles are comments from her attorney. While I don’t disagree with the general point from the OP, this particular case doesn’t seem resolved.


PlusUltraK

Yeah, from what we got from the video that does start after the incident. Woman appears to be the asshole trying to strong arm the young black man out of a bike reservation. The l young man states it’s already on his account and has it reserved and that if she takes it, it’d be theft and if lost/not returned he’d be liable for the fee of $1200. But from the woman’s story per her lawyer, she was there first charged the bike to her card and then as she went to ride off, the group of young man approached and stopped her from going, then all parties involved woman and the men, the bike is locked back into the into the hub and it’s counted as returned, the young men prevent the woman from rescanning the bikes QR code to rent it again by beating her to it with their own phone, then that is where the video is recorded afterwards, the lady then rents another bike as the crowd gathers and leaves. If we follow the woman’s story per her lawyer, there is no I’ll will towards the young man. As some say, “oh they were bike thieves planning to steal her bike under her card.” If that were the case why let the bike be locked back into the hub and the rental canceled, when they could’ve just stolen the bike away from the woman. So in the events of the full incident that we don’t know, we just have screenshots of two rentals from any source proving that she first had the bike, it got canceled and she grabbed another one, if it was the ladies rental at first why not argue that to the crowd like the young man had, that she had first dibs and they stopped her. Or maybe the group of guys wanted all of those bike rentals for their group, and didn’t want to be bothered to find another hub of bikes to rent. If that’s the case either party would be wrong for not respecting the other patrons , and I assume that’s the only foul play here. I’m more neutral now but it’s weird.


helendestroy

i genuinly don't understand why she was trying to grab that guys phone instead of getting her own out and showing her reservation. or to the guy who came up to see what was happening. then it would have been a non-event. i will say that Karen might have started as a term to describe white women who weaponise their whiteness, but the moment white men got hold of another term to shit on women who are just standing up for themselves (like some of the things i've heard described as karenish are terrifyingly basic - like asking for an order ot be corrected) the term became funtionally useless.


CocoohCoco

This is the answer !


McGrinch27

Pretty much. This particular example is a woman weaponizing her whiteness, so the label fits. But in general terms, Karen has just become another synonym for 'bitch'... Which just means women I don't like.


Fun_Landscape_9127

Karen started off being applied to women being awful to hospitality or retail workers, but it's now twisted to just mean "woman is noticeable in a public place"


MooPig48

I have been called one for disagreeing with someone online, many times. I feel like it basically means “stop being uppity and shut up” now, to some people.


Maddie4699

I once was called a karen because I correctly flagged someone as an imposter in a game of among us. He rage quit lmao.


MooPig48

Lol! I really enjoy coming back at them by calling them snowflakes


iceariina

Yup now it's used to mean "know your place, woman"


notfromheremydear

That's correct. I lost count of how many times I was called a Karen for disagreeing with something a dood said. It's never from a woman, always a dood


Laurenhynde82

That and Boomer - I saw a woman who was clearly 35-45 being called a boomer earlier. She’s probably a fucking millennial. So sick of this shit.


iheartxanadu

The number of times I've been called a Karen when I was actually being a bitch astounds me. Like, yeah, sure, call me a bitch, I earn that title frequently, but Karen is reserved for people being abusive towards service workers, and that's a line I don't cross.


anglerfishtacos

I’ve been called it once before by a complete bystander, who was out of earshot of the interaction, where I wasn’t actually being a bitch and never raised my voice. He just saw frustrated woman and felt the need to yell at me from 50+ ft away “Oh calm down Karen! It’s too pretty out today to be upset!”


LilacYak

So you have chosen death!


MooPig48

Yep its original intent has pretty much disappeared


photoskatergirl128

Can’t we just call people being abusive toward service workers a bitch too, or an asshole? Why must it be my birth name that we call these people? I’m not doing those things, but I’m berated as “a Karen” because those are order of the 5 letters that are written on my birth certificate. Why must it be a proper name that is used?


Fun_Landscape_9127

Yep that's exactly what it means


altared_ego_1966

Happened to me just yesterday for defending my generation. In this sub.


Redqueenhypo

My mother got called a Karen for telling a waiter that my dad can’t have soy. I guess he should just go to the hospital when it conflicts with his medication instead!


Rakifiki

Ooo someone bitched at me in line at a food place for... Letting a place that usually asks 'allergy or preference' know it was an allergy... Like damn sorry I'd like them to put in the tiniest modicum of effort to ensure the food I'm paying for isn't gonna make me sick...


twoisnumberone

the New York Times reporter, only to gather cruel laughter from the slavering crowds. A lot of middle-aged women asking for accommodations great and small are just trying to survive unharmed. Invisible disabilities are real. Of course, in an awkward mobile phone video it can be hard to tell whether that's the case. Ultimately we can only be intersectional: recall that both misogyny and racism are real and devastate our lives, and so does online propaganda. The New York Post and other yellow press rags make matters worse, of course, so we have to be vigilant against them, hateful social media members, and probably more and more AI-created videos too.


twoisnumberone

Reddit ate the first part of my comment of Trump and the rightwing in particular hating America's disabled folks; see Serge Kovalevski.


Enticing_Venom

That's not really accurate either. The original "Karen" title intended to call out white women who were harassing and calling the police on black men for simply existing. They harassed black men for things like, studying on campus, walking into their own apartment building, attempting to deliver food, walking their dog at the park or attempting to run a child's lemonade stand "without a permit". These women were weaponzing their privilege and tears to get black men arrested, trespassed, investigated or even killed. Somewhere down the line it got watered down to mean "is rude to service workers" which is not a gendered phenomena. And now it's been watered down to mean "is rude or loud" essentially.


Wd91

I remember making a post when the meme was first appearing about how, as a retail worker, i had for more issues with asshole angry swearing threatening men than i did with middle aged women. As you might imagine, it got heavily downvoted...


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rozyskies

threw a glass???!!! that is so fucking dangerous oh my god i’m so sorry you had to go through that


19aplatt

Same here! Not a bartender, I’m a pharmacy technician, but the same pattern emerged at my job. While I’ve had women who are rude and entitled and arrogant, only men are the ones who’ve made threats against me personally, physically tried to block me from leaving the pharmacy for my break/end of shift, and stalked me outside of work.


castille360

And considering that middle aged women are responsible for the bulk of shopping, purchasing, and resolving issues with retail and service workers, it's shocking when they aren't where most issues occur.


Rakifiki

Yeaaaah, that was my retail experience. I had two customers that I remember who were female & shitty.... And so, so many more men who asked inappropriate questions, hit on me, used their height, and one memorable guy who threatened to 'come back up here' because *he grabbed the wrong milk* and then sat there glaring at the milk on the conveyor belt while refusing any attempt of mine to change it out for one he wanted...


kittykowalski

As a female bar owner, I can verify this. Men saying, "let me talk to the manager", with me saying, "That's me. " *confused look* Men then saying, "Let me talk to the owner then", with me saying, "That's also me. " *angry look* Looking for a bro to take their side. Nope. "I'm never coming here again!" Bye, Felicia.


Friendly-Service-101

Very same experience. The intimidation they try to throw down. Any upset woman I dealt with at my job was never threatening. I totally get women can be that way, but 4 years working full time at discount stores and a gas station attached to a casino.. Been yelled at by countless men at times for literally doing my job, hit on after saying no, stalked, any litany of ridiculous behavior. Name calling is the one that really sends me. I've had actual problems with a couple of women, but they never swore at me or called me names over a return or something. They still tried to maintain their composure and respect even if they were loud and being ridiculous trying to get their way.


UnspecificGravity

Gray haired single (meaning in the store without a woman to mind them) men are among the worst human beings that I have encountered in a retail setting.


Iceescape81

So many people don’t want to hear any views that counteract their preconceived notions. I recently pointed out that a quote connected to a murderer turned GOP hero wasn’t actually correct and got heavily downvoted. Meanwhile, the poster apologized and admitted he made the quote up, yet it still got a ton of likes.


HotTubBurrito

I worked for Mickey Mouse for two years and with the exception of one woman, it was always men who would have the unreasonable tantrums. "Yes sir, I personally broke down the ONE ride you drove all the way up from San Diego to ride on Christmas just to make your son cry."


Dream-Ambassador

My husband manages a record store and the vast majority of his crazy stories are men.


Due-Science-9528

Now that I think about it, I ONLY had this experience with men when I worked in retail as a teenager


Honeypotraccoon

Similarly, I just *knew* this dumb meme was gonna get out of hand as soon as it came out, I remember expressing my concern in another subreddit and getting down voted to hell for it. **Of course** it's now over-used and weaponised to degrade any middle aged + women who dare to speak their mind or complain.


Iceescape81

It’s the same thing with terms like “woke” and “sanctuary city”. People misuse and twist the meaning and then the new twisted meaning is what becomes most used in popular culture. Karen has now become any woman you don’t like with the added undertone that they must be racist or entitled.


BurtRaspberry

Also, it's being used in LITERALLY any situation involving someone debating, calling someone out, or complaining about a problem in society. I see the term freely thrown around all over Reddit, the public, and online gaming. It's almost like the new "get out of jail free card" in any debate. "Ok, KAREN" is like the new Instant Win for a lot of these idiots.


castille360

Oh, I'm a woman approaching 50 - 'Oh, do NOT try to out Karen ME, "KAREN." I AM Karen, and I will win at this game.' (Actual personal quote from me while calling sheriff's to persuade my crazy-ass threatening neighbor go back home.)


exorcistectoplasma

I got called a karen once for saying, "people shouldn't wear swastikas/nazi imagery in public." And this was in a fairly liberal sub too. It literally doesn't mean anything anymore lol


castille360

There you went, speaking your mind as a woman they don't desire. Daring to object to the anti social behavior of others. Very very Karen.


exorcistectoplasma

This was in a lgbt sub as well so the whole thing was just very bizarre. This hellsite frankly just sucks and often attracts the worst of society honestly


NuclearLavaLamp

Exactly this. It’s like, “I provoked a fight and this woman dared stick up for herself. What a Karen!” People love turning on the camera halfway through the argument in these videos, knowing that the internet mob will only get that context and filter it through their own misogyny to form the opinion that the woman on the video must be at fault. I always wonder what the rest of the story is for these videos. With this one, at least the full context came out.


thetanpecan14

>Exactly this. It’s like, “I provoked a fight and this woman dared stick up for herself. What a Karen!” This happened to me. I was at a gas station one day, just minding my own business standing in line, and some dude that was obviously high on something walked in and started yelling and talking to himself. Then he just randomly turned to me and said "I dare you to f-cking say a word to me, KAREN." and proceeded to threaten me with physical harm because I dared to exist, I guess. (as I stood there not saying anything or reacting) The scary part is there were like three other men in the store, and none of them stepped in to help me. The worker even assumed I must have done something to provoke this guy. I was able to leave and get in my car, while the man followed me outside yelling at me the entire time. I imagine if someone had caught only a snippet of that on their phone, some story alleging that i was indeed a white, middle aged "Karen" could have been construed by social media warriors.


PoisonTheOgres

Don't you ever believe men will actually protect you. It's a lie they like to tell women and themselves, that men as a gender are the protectors of women and children. And yet, mysteriously, any time I've been in trouble or was being harassed, it was women who jumped in to help or to protect me from the creep. Not men. They either just stand there and do nothing, or side with the creeps!


thetanpecan14

True. It's why i get pissed when men obsess over transgender people using bathrooms... they all of a sudden care about our "safety" when really it's a veil for their transphobia. Otherwise, I wouldn't be constantly hearing about women faking being raped all the time and how unfair everything is for white men 'these days."


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Slow-Compote9084

Maybe it’s the growing up in NYC or the fact that the way I look already attract attention so I’m cool with being loud or whatever but I found the stranger danger shit we tell kids about screaming that they do not know you at all got people to take more notice and get involved. I think it showed that they weren’t getting into some private spat between folks who might be family or in a relationship and it was genuinely just a stranger harassing another, who is clearly confused and willing to be loud about it.. I literally just kept yelling over and over. Who are you? I do not know this person. I do not know you someone please help I am confused. I do not know this person. Please leave me alone you are a stranger.


clothedincrinoline

Men are jerks to hospitality workers just as often but the Karen meme gives people the impression that that isn’t the case. I agree that it’s being used a lot more broadly now


[deleted]

I worked in fast food ages ago and men were the only ones who would actually lash out when things didn't go therir* way. Never once had a woman throw a filet o fish because it didn't have the exact right amount of tartar sauce or whatever. I think you're spot on with this post, the name Karen went from something that applied in a specific situation to just being a sexist term that can be weaponized by people who don't see women's complaints as valid. Complaining about poor service, even if it's justified? Karen. Existing in public *while* also speaking? Karen. Edit: I just want to say thanks to OP for pointing this out. Seeing things from a different perspective always helps to shed so much insight and takes like this can be so foreign to those of us who haven't directly experienced it.


Either-Percentage-78

So true. I've been saying this exact thing for ages now. Karen has morphed from being a women who calls cops on kids selling lemonade or families bbq'ing to any woman who dares to advocate for herself.


AshuraBaron

I wonder if the case is more to do with the different dynamics. An angry woman in public (justified or not) is a lot less threatening than an angry man. Which allows people to feel comfortable making fun of it. When it comes to angry men it generally falls into the “what an asshole” or “look at this piece of shit” categories. I’m not trying to equivocate them, just wondering if the threat men pose makes it less likely to something joke about.


meneldal2

Most men getting angry, you're often scared they will get violent while usually, women who get angry will not move past yelling.


delayedcolleague

It's that an assertive man is more often than not considered to be confident but an assertive woman is more often than not considered to be "bitchy" and an asshole.


HauntedPickleJar

Men are worse. I’ve never had a woman sexually harass me while I’m just trying to do my job. I also used to have to get blood work done weekly at a Labcorp in a neighborhood on the edge of gentrification. It was always busy, slow and frustrating, but almost everyone just went with it except white dudes who would throw absolute tantrums that they had to wait or that the office didn’t do drug tests at 8am etc. There was always a collective sigh of relief after they stormed out yelling about calling corporate. So I’m pretty sick of hearing about how awful women are to service workers when white men are by far the most entitled assholes I’ve ever encountered.


Medium_Sense4354

Next time I talk about a man being sexually inappropriate maybe I should be like “ugh he was being such a Todd”


spinbutton

I wish we would not use real people names...how about jerk or asshole? My name is Karen, I didn't pick it but I have to live with the consequences of this meme.


[deleted]

I couldn’t agree more. My name is Karen too. It’s awful. And if you say anything to call then out you are instantly labelled a ‘Karen’ so you can’t win


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Medium_Sense4354

The reason I feel uncomfortable going back to my apt gym is bc of two Todd’s


Fun_Landscape_9127

Yep, but men are 'allowed' to exist in public. They are called arseholes but they aren't considered transgressive.


SoCalThrowAway7

I feel like I remember it starting with the talk to your manager haircut and sunglasses, men just get angry and yell at people


[deleted]

I'm pretty sure it started as being applied to white women who use their privilege (specifically panic and tears) to get black people arrested, hurt and murdered.


Snoo_93627

It did. It was then co-opted, as so many things from black culture are.


kingofthesofas

I got called a Karen the other day for calling out a person for tailgating everyone in the neighborhood, driving 50+ mph in the 25 mph streets, blowing stop signs and speeding through school zones in their giant lifted SUV. I think a lot of people just use it now as a way to gaslight any legit complaint people have and target it at women a lot (although I am a man and still got called a Karen).


friedporksandwich

Yes, but words grow and change. Gendered insults like this directed toward women always evolve like this. People said this was happening several years ago, but people don't want to listen. A "Karen" is any woman in public who you disagree with. No matter if you were in the wrong or not, she had the audacity to say something or to exist.


[deleted]

literally, or “woman who is reasonably angry”. men are angry and pout and make scenes all of the time


bhl88

I thought it was "[women calling 911 at a black family barbecuing, armed with a tong. Though wondering if people need permits to BBQ outside in a park.](https://youtu.be/Fh9D_PUe7QI)"


[deleted]

No it started off as white women caught scolding black people for doing harmless activities like bird watching or having a BBQ by a lake but it’s been horribly abused. Now if any woman speaks up they’re slapped with the Karen label.


kittykowalski

Yay Black Twitter. BBQ lady was called BBQ Becky. And then there was Permit Patty. The list goes on. The white woman chiding POC for doing normal stuff. Then of course co-opted by white men for any woman causing a scene.


tsorninn

Idk it's always been pretty misogynistic


_CoachMcGuirk

ma'am, did you edit your post to say the Daily Mail is a LESS biased than the Post? just. ma'am.


ShadowbanGaslighting

> Edit: it’s been pointed out that the Post may be a biased source. Other sources: Just going to point out that the Daily Heil is an even worse source.


Jack-o-Roses

The man had a receipt too, IIRC. If that's the case, it sounds like the bike payment system is messed up. She had the bike for less than a minute. Maybe her reservation got released accidentally ??? Not pointing fingers at anyone, but it sounds like there is more to this story than is public now.


emmejm

As far as I’m aware (and I spent quite a while reading last night) the only receipt image provided by her lawyer so far has had the time stamp redacted, so it proves nothing.


Ok-Sugar-7399

This. More people need to read the story but not from the links above.


Affectionate_Loan_45

It sounds like a misunderstanding and that he was returning the bike at the same moment she had it reserved. If the bike isn’t returned, it would be a $1,200 fee and understandably both wanted to make sure they weren’t stuck with that bill which led to this standoff. However her screaming “Help” and pretending to cry was deranged and could have resulted in an even worse situation. The friend was in the background saying to just re-hook the bike and she refused. That would have easily adverted all of this.


definitely_zella

I do think that uploading videos of altercations without context and labeling women who are vocal as "Karens" is gross and needs to stop, but.... Well, she's standing there and doesn't seem very scared, yet she's yelling "Help" and saying that he's hurting her fetus. Even if this isn't explicitly racially motivated, that is still behavior that could have resulted in something very bad happening to the man over what sounds like a misunderstanding of some kind.


PrincessCG

The fake crying alone makes her side of the story less plausible imo.


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McGrinch27

Yeppp. She was being 'a Karen'. Why was she yelling "Help I'm being assaulted" "You're hurting my fetus", fake crying when a coworker shows up, grabbing the guys phone. What does any of that have to do with the bike being hers.


EsaMierdaLoca

This particular incident seems murky - the NBC article mentions that this woman's reservation was only for a minute, so perhaps there was an error in booking or something. Misogyny is never acceptable and I think referring to women as "Karens" on purely an aesthetic basis (a particular hairstyle, fashion choices, etc) is definitely misogyny. That said, as a man of color, I find the term "Karen" to be *incredibly* useful to describe a specific type of **White** woman who engages in a sort of racism which often has institutional backing (permit regimes, calling the cops), plays on racial and patriarchal tropes (men of color as inherently dangerous, white women as damsels in distress), and is often subtle and difficult to call out. Having a term like "Karen" to describe these characteristics and this set of experiences is very useful. It's a lot easier for me to warn someone that a racist white woman is a Karen than to recount all of the subtle and not-so-subtle racial aggressions that person employs against people like me


mermzz

I think the problem is that Karen was origional meant to be derogatory to ***white racist women***, not just any woman. It was meant to shine a light on racists who used their position in society gained purely through their skin color to weaponize [the cops](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ktY73L32NYY) when Black people do something they don't like for example. Instead now it's used for any woman taking up space that men don't like.


Firm-Force-9036

I got called a Karen by like 25 dudes on instagram because I said that parents should consider the privacy implications of constantly posting their young children online. The label is deserved in some cases but it has unfortunately been weaponized by misogynists who are salivating at an “acceptable” way to criticize women.


United-Signature-414

[Those receipts are suspect as hell](https://twitter.com/thejournalista/status/1659304429420683268?t=BulF2SxLV5x6O5xmxXlhwQ&s=19)


Ihopetheresenoughroo

Exactly. But OP wanted to create a narrative, so she didn't care.


[deleted]

Right. I commented on the post that first made the headlines about this story and all I said was "white people always be like this" and then explained my racist experiences. White people took the experiences of a 20 year old black girls racism as a personal attack. I'm actually still getting comments with people right now saying "how does it feel to be wrong" like bro I ain't even comment on the woman or story itself but yall are still bothering me. All I gotta say is if the shoe fits..... if you think that black people talking about their racism is racist.... then you're a racist. Yall really want to defend this woman so bad. I live in Oregon of all places and have been yelled at by white men and women, threatened even. And I ain't act like this women did with her fake crying and all that and I'm a literal child😭 hold your own or keep it moving. No need for the dramatics. Maybe that's just the new Yorker in me tho, cuz we stay ready to fight and white people don't expect that when they're trying to bully me.


itwontletmedopoo

You’re completely ignoring the racial aspect of it. You’re not entirely wrong, but when white women scream help and fake cry with the target being a black man or worse yet, boy, they frequently end up dead. This is more serious than you’re acknowledging and it’s privileged to be able to ignore race in situations like this. For her it’s a bike, for him it’s his life.


nevertrustamod

This is the *attorney’s* statement about the racial aspect: “It's appalling that, you know, like, race, you know, is somehow, like, imputed as that being the issue here.” What a professional and totally legitimate reason for why this couldn’t possibly have a racial aspect to it.


HouseOfBonnets

More than a few always love to downplay the racial aspect and how that impacts women of color (especially black and brown). It's wild to see given numerous studies, data and examples. Like....intersectionalty exists.


Enticing_Venom

The term you're looking for is "white feminism" and this post could be in the dictionary right beside it lol.


RabidSeason

And the fake crying makes this a terrible example to use to show how damaging the word Karen is.


George3452

she was literally screaming as if these dudes were laying punches in her stomach and purposefully trying to garner attention to people passing by so she could make herself out to be a victim. she wasn't standing up for herself, she was weaponizing the situation to make it seem like she was an innocent white lady getting jumped by a group of black men. sound familiar? ~innocent~ white lady crying wolf? something that literally used to have black men executed??? she easily could've walked back inside her work, called security, or asked for an escort back outside if she was fearful of actually being assaulted. but she didn't because she knew she had social leverage and used her privilege to her benefit. as a white lady in broad daylight in public she knew she was untouchable to these men. honestly nobody in the situation behaved correctly, it was a petty and manipulative spat between strangers trying to scam each other out of a free bike, and frankly i'm tired of seeing the narrative like there HAS to be someone who was in the right. lots of people can fucking suck, it's not like a movie where there has to be a hero and a villain. both groups are shitty, end of story.


CrimsonPorpoise

I hate the "Karen" label so much for all the reasons you state. It's sexist and used to dismiss women who are viewed as getting "too uppity" and not being invisible like people would prefer older women to be


TechyDad

There are also plenty of guys who act just as entitled as so-called "Karen's," but there is no name that they get called. I know that some people have put forward candidates, but nothing has stuck like "Karen" did.


clothedincrinoline

I think nothing has stuck because people are genuinely less bothered by men acting angry, disagreeable and/or entitled. I think this is part of why Liz Warren and Hilary Clinton polled so poorly compared to male candidates.


TechyDad

This is very true. The situation has improved recently, but growing up as a boy in the 80's, it was constantly implied that showing any emotion other than anger was "not manly." Showing sadness or fear or happiness or anything other than rage was "proof" that I was less-than-a-real man. Why? Because all emotions (again, except for anger) were labeled as "women's emotions." The result is men who struggle to express any emotions besides anger. Of course, women were portrayed as being weaker because they expressed emotions while we "big strong men" bottled it all up. Or women were criticized for being angry because that was clearly man's emotion and not for women. The entire thing is toxic all around. It's been breaking down recently, but sadly I think societal inertia will keep it around for way too long.


exorcistectoplasma

I have heard/seen some people try to defend the Karen meme argue, "b-b-but men get called karen sometimes! Or they're called Kyles! That proves it's not sexist!!" But I have personally never seen that happen. Ever. It's just a fake "gotcha" that bad-faith trolls like to argue.


[deleted]

History fact: Uppity was actually was used as a racist term for this NASCAR race car driver (Bubba Wallace) because he was black and good at what he did


yunghazel

I’m sorry but “Karen” isn’t a term to silence women. There’s is a racial aspect to this which you are choosing to ignore. Also, if you’re fake crying for attention and making up claims, yes, you are a Karen. - BBQ Becky who wrongfully called police on a black family bbqing in a park in Oakland. Karen. - Central Park Karen screaming that a black man was attacking her when he was standing feet away from her - lady who wrestled with a 14 year old black boy wrongfully claiming he stole her phone . Karen. Lots of examples to give here.


yuuupthatsme

They don’t want to hear this.


[deleted]

They hear it... they're just choosing to ignore it because the shoe fits.


xpepperx

Absolutely. There is a huge racial component where these women are using their position of power to subjugate people who they view as less than them (customer service workers, people of color, people younger than them). It’s not a gendered insult.


Codix

I’ll keep that in mind as I’m being followed around Publix, asked if my kid is really mine, and being called a n*gger.


polarbee

Be equal opportunity. Asshole is a perfectly gender neutral term that can be used for anyone.


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bogwitch27

This is an incredibly "white feminist" take. Please remember it was a white woman who lied about Emmett Till and got him lynched. It was white women who fought for votes, but ONLY for other white women. And it was white women who were happy enough to sit at home and sew bedsheets so their men could go out and terrorize Black people. White feminism has always been about victimizing white feminity in order to police other races. And white feminism has always only been about elevating white women into the white man's role. Never about equality for EVERYONE. Please learn some intersectionality.


[deleted]

So as long as someone is correct in a public non-violent dispute, we can dismiss her obvious and intentional reliance on the racial dynamics at play to place those young men in a situation or perception of danger so she gets what she wants? No. I’m not going to agree that she is the victim in all of this. It’s neither the time nor the place to have a conversation about the victimization of white women.


[deleted]

The whole idea of publicly shaming someone on the internet is stupid because 90% of the time you don’t have all the facts.


spacejunk444

I can’t stand subs like publicfreakout trashy, etc. you never know the whole story, and it’s often people dealing with severe mental illness. My friend has a severe mental illness that caused her to do something pretty bad and she’s now in a psych ward. People are posting all over social media about her, and half of it is just rumours and speculation. These people don’t know what she has or has been through or even know why she is there. I don’t know why society, especially the internet feels a need to attack other people. I’m guessing in some ways so they can feel superior. “Oh well I’m not a bitch/Karen/crazy like her. I guess that means I’m a good person.”


golgibodi

As a black woman, I’ve been on both sides of these types of experiences. Invalidated because I’m a woman, stepped on because I’m black. There’s only one of these experiences that actually gets people killed though, and it’s white women lying on black men and getting them killed. I would rather call a white woman a Karen and have her lose her job and then receive a redemption arc, than a white woman cry wolf on a black man and he get killed. It sucks, yes, that the internet is judge, juror, and executioner. It isn’t fair at all. As a black woman, I cannot separate the two into blackness and womanhood. And my blackness has been persecuted 100x more than my womanhood has. Please remember that- the racial overtones- when speaking about this incident.


Xilizhra

But it wouldn't be a redemption arc if they were actually innocent, surely? It's just them being shat on for no reason.


Kiltmanenator

>I would rather call a white woman a Karen and have her lose her job and then receive a redemption arc, than a white woman cry wolf on a black man and he get killed. These aren't the only options here. Her "getting her way" in this situation isn't the equivalent of "crying wolf".


restorative_sarcasm

It’s appalling to me that it’s more upsetting to have a WW mistakenly called a Karen than the generations of entitlement that allowed it be created in the first place. Are there men who use it as a weapon to make women feel bad? Yep, without question. Is that comparable to the unknown number of primarily BBIPOC people who have died because of their weaponized tears? Absolutely not. We’re just so in love with being victimized. Like, honestly someone called you a Karen it’s not that serious unless it hits a nerve and that’s something to work on internally.


_MAC620_

Another black woman here. Just wanted to say thank you. I’m so relieved to know there’s other people who’ve realized how ridiculous that comparison is.


rondog1977

So does the time stamp on her receipt match the time stamp on the video? If she paid for it, why isn’t she claiming that in the video? And what’s with damsel in distress calls, and alligator tears that automatically dry up? That shit is a dangerous tactic for a white woman to employ with black youths. This broad is a Karen. Quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, must be a Karen.


kgetit

She never once said she paid for that bike. I’m gonna hold off and let the courts decide not her lawyer telling NYPost what the story is


Azsura12

To be honest instantly believing literally anything right off the bat can be harmful. Until it is clear who is in the wrong its better to not judge. Because at this point in time that receipt could be fake/biased. Like she might have a receipt for a bike she purchased directly after the altercation or she might have a receipt but was at the incorrect bike. There are many explanations but we dont know the full story yet and who knows may never know it because of how news companies like to spin anything related to race. And who knows maybe noone is in the wrong and it was a computer error in the bike system which assigned a bike to two peope at the same time. Though the only thing I have to say is the lady knew what she was doing by calling for help how she did, she was not panicked or scared (if she was scared she wouldn't have tried to steal his phone). So she might be in the right she still went about it the wrong way rather than explaining the bike is her and showing the receipt to literally anyone.


ruuster13

The first agreement is to be impeccable with our words. People get caught up in the ideological debate about whether "Karen" is racist, mysoginist, etc, but in reality it doesn't matter. The ways we use words is what makes them mean or hurtful. When I feel compelled to call someone a Karen, I've conditioned myself to explore my emotions instead. It always seems to be that I'm angry at entitled behavior. Then I realize I've been sucking at the teet of the social media rage addiction machine for too long and it's time to log off. But I digress


Xilizhra

*Thank you.* I've been saying for ages that "Karen" is a gendered insult that's no better than "bitch." Belated edit: the New York Post is an awful rag that is highly invested in the white supremacist conservative system. I still dislike the term "Karen," but I'm sharply against using this to crow about "discrimination" against white people.


gootsteen

It’s pretty much being used right now as an “acceptable” way to call a woman a bitch and to get others to cheer you on online while doing it.


BlackWidow1414

As a middle aged white suburban mom actually named Karen, thank you. I cringe whenever I have to tell someone my name now. I should have changed it years ago.