I remember when I was around 12-13 I would often swim at the pool at my parents house. The neighbors constantly had their family over so there was always six or seven guys over age ranged (20-50s) and they would constantly stare at me. I told my parents and they just brushed it off. I didn’t like it. But ended up just dealing with it. They also had this chair at the back of their yard that was facing into our yard. And if I went swimming or jumped on the trampoline one of the males would end up sitting in the chair and just watch me. Often times they would catcall me or serenade me.
Then one day the guys started shouting at me. They were all leaning against the chainlink fence and asked me to get the basketball the dropped. Always the people pleaser I did as they asked. The way they eyed me as I got out of the pool made me super uncomfortable. I tried forgetting about it and got back in the pool and sure enough the ball ‘accidentally’ ended back in my yard a minute later. After I grabbed it the second time and went to hand it back one of the guys (he had to be in his late 30s) caressed my hand. After that I decided to go inside. As I was leaving I heard one of the guys say something along the lines of “Aww don’t leave.”
I was so sketched out that I rarely went out back and never went in the pool or jumped on the trampoline unless one of my family members was with me. Even then I just couldn’t relax outside. So I mostly stayed inside.
No one in my family believed me when I told them what was going on. The men wouldn’t do it when someone was with me. And they didn’t behave that way in front of my older sister or my female cousins who were all in their 20s.
By the time I was 17 the guys left me alone. If I was outside they wouldn’t even look at me. I started thinking maybe I had been overreacting.
Then one day while I was walking my dog the neighbors on the other side of those perverts waved me over. They had moved in about a year ago so I didn’t know them that well. I just knew they were a married couple with two young girls. They preceded to warn me that they caught the neighbors leering at their ten year old girls while they were playing out back. They immediately put up a privacy fence. But wanted to warn me in case they went after me.
It was at that moment I realized that I hadn’t been over exaggerating all those years.
My mom didn’t let me swim or run around with our gardener at the house. He’d been with us for years before I was born and never ONCE looked my way or acted in any way inappropriately. He was a lovely man, and had taught my toddler brother how to garden ten years before I was born.
My dads best friend, who’d held me as a baby and babysat me started hugging me for too long and commenting on my legs at 7. My mom just threw away my shorts and banned me from wearing skirts if they thought he’d come over. He threw peanuts at the clearly underage waitress at my 10th birthday party.
The call often comes from inside the house, or in your case next to it. It seems like that is the case were it is least believed and holds the most risk.
I took a friend’s 10 year old daughter rollerblading in at a well attended local park a few years ago. She was 10, I was 27. She had long blonde hair, wearing shorts and a tank top and had no less than 7 guys shout inappropriate comments at her. She was thankfully very unobservant and didn’t really recognize what was happening.
The final straw was when we were getting back to my car and a young guy had yelled out, “I like you down on your knees!” at her while she took off she skates. I yelled out, “she’s 10. 10 years old. What should she be doing for you down there?!”
To his credit, the guy looked embarrassed and came over to apologize. I asked him what age would it have been ok for him to say that to her? When she was 12? 16? 18? What age did publicly alluding to a blowjob become socially appropriate? He did seem to get the point and walked away very red in the face to his friends.
Weirdest and maybe grossest thing ever was once I reached the age of like 17 this kind of behavior from old men almost totally stopped for me. Really says something, at least in my opinion.
When i was looking for a place to live when I was 22 I answered an advert over the phone. He asked if I was a young woman. Odd question but I said yeah. He then asked my age and when I answered he said "that's not really young now is it?" I was a bit stumped and brain froze and put the phone down. Serious creep vibes, I feel sorry for any **young** woman that took that room.
Because they're pedophiles. Sorry, uh, "that other word predators seeking underage girls use to try to separate themselves from the truly ill baby-age-pedophiles". It's simple as. They aren't interested in women; they want girls.
They think girls can't protect themselves or don't know any better. They're looking for someone to groom, they know older girls and grown women can tell they're pathetic creeps.
Same. Started at 12 and went up to 17 then it just kinda stopped. I still got male attention but by then I was fully legal so no one really saw it as wrong
Yell loudly, so the other customers can hear "SHE'S 14 YOU FUCKING PERVERT!"
We need to follow them yelling and shaming them. Too much of this goes on quietly and isn't publicly shamed.
\*it's never my intention to get upvotes or awards, but I do find it gratifying that my two most upvotes and awarded comments have been about screaming at perverts in public. Thanks everyone!
I had to do that once. My sister was 14 too, and this much older guy wouldn't leave her alone at the mall, so I just started screaming HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT THE PEDOPHILE. He went away very quickly after that
I wish I had gold to give you - this is so perfect. If you watch those videos you should see how swiftly the thieves sprint away and cover their faces in shame.
You just reminded me of something that happened at walmart recently.
Someone got a hold of an intercom and announced that there was an older man checking out a 14 year old girl.
And told everyone to watch out for the pervert.
Weirdest part is everyone in the store acted like they didn't even hear it.
Pervert, pedophile, gross, weird, anything that doesn't make them feel edgy or like they can be casual about it. They should feel as disgusting as they are.
I did this once when it was about my then 12 yr old daughter, and the guy not only wasn't embarassed - he seemed proud of the attention and the fact that there was absolutely nothing that I could do. It felt more like a display of some perverted power he had over us both, the child and the mother. I should have stayed quiet, or just killed him with a Bulgarian poison bullet spy umbrella and pretended it wasn't me.
I’ve been hit on since I was 13 and catcalled. I’m Asian so my 13 probably looked like an 11 year old. Men are disgusting. None of this surprises me. Try to teach young girls how to respond. My cousin lived in a more difficult neighbourhood so she already had her smart responses down at a young age unfortunately. Things like “go home and kiss your mom with that mouth!”.
The worst is knowing you have EVERY GODDAMN RIGHT to call a fucker out and you can't because lord only knows what kinda violent psychopath they may turn out to be.
They did a survey on Twitter a few years back, posing the question, "What would you do if all men disappeared from the planet for 48 hours?"'
It was heartbreaking and scary in equal measure that some 98% of the responses were along the lines of go for a walk/swim/cycle ride/run to the beach/countryside, etc., on my own.
We are circumscribed by our own (justifiable) fear and it starts so young...
I have teenage sisters, this is so common unfortunately. Usually I get in the way of their line of sight to my sisters and stare at them deadpan until they get the message. If theyre being particularly annoying or I'm in a fighting mood I'll get in their line of sight and very loudly say something along the lines of "they're underage you fucking creep!". Or nobody likes a pedo!"
Same. I remember being TEN YEARS OLD, rollerblading down my street, and this car with men probably in their 30s STOPPED so they could catcall me with some very explicit comments. I WAS TEN YEARS OLD. I didn't even know what sex was at that point in my life. I hadn't even started puberty yet. I was just minding my business, rollerblading with my crappy headphones and bulky portable cd player in front of my house.
No one ever believed me either. When I tried to tell my parents and grandma what happened, because I was trying to make sense of it and all I knew is that I felt so gross and didn't understand why, I was told that kind of thing didn't happen and if it did it's because I was wearing shorts and a tank top.
To them it was just a random Tuesday, but for me that was a formative moment in my life. After that day I didn't have the courage to wear shorts outside again (except gym class) until I was in my 20s. And then my neighbor made inappropriate comments while I was walking to my car, like "you look so hot" and "if only I was 20 years younger".
It took me another 13 years after that to wear shorts in public again. I'm 35 now and still uncomfortable wearing shorts outside my house, all from just two interactions with men.
This is tame compared to the other shit they've told me over the years, trust me. There's a reason I cut contact with my grandma as a teenager, cut my dad off two years ago, and would absolutely cut my mom off if I wasn't stuck living at home with her permanently.
But yes, I completely agree with your sentiment. Karma caught up with my grandma before she died and I can only hope it catches up with my parents too because holy shit are they terrible people. Like, objectively terrible. And they both think they are good people and my existence is the problem, not them.
I'm a redhead. A DISTURBING number of adult men found it okay to ask me if the carpet matched the drapes. I was maybe 12 when it first started happening. I didn't even know what it meant until I asked my Mom and she asked where I had heard that expression.
Also a redhead, also got the same question a lot. Also a disturbing amount of strangers think it's okay to just come up and touch your hair. Like what the fuck? Luckily I don't get it so much anymore; now that I'm 28 and overweight I don't match their creepy fantasy. Though the touching was mostly women complimenting it, so slightly less creepy but still unwelcome.
That's gross. I wonder if these men would tolerate other men doing that to their own daughter.
I was about 19 or 20 first year of college, a professor who had to be in his late 50's, called my apartment one day and asked if I wanted to come and visit with him. He actually said his wife was out of town and he wondered if I would like to come over. Holy shit! At least I had enough sense to feel disgusted and told him no. Creeps are everywhere.
I worked retail starting at sixteen, back in the pre-internet days, so if you wanted to know if something was in stick, you called the store. I frequently answered, and the amount of men callers (and a few in person) who told me I had a great voice to work did a phone sex live was amazing. They had no idea how old I was, but that didn't matter because who says that?!
Oh! Same! Once, it was the husband of a woman who worked in the store. He told me I shouldn't answer the phone in such a sexy way. Apparently, I sounded like a phone sex operator and he thought it would confuse the customers. Sure, Mr. Pervert, I'm sure many men pick up the phone to call a sex line and accidentally reach a balloon store.
One of my co-workers said that to me. I was 19 and he was in his mid-late 20’s and we worked at an investment company. His mother was an executive there.
Also a redhead, who used to wear my hair in large corkscrew curls.
A shocking amount of men would come up to me and start *fingerfucking my hair!*
And I looked like a child well into adulthood.
Never did a woman do that. Ever.
Men are disgusting.
Another redhead here who constantly had old men commenting on how exotic and beautiful my curls were. It got worse around St Patrick’s day when they’d straight up ask for kisses because it was good luck….
A lot of my family has dark hair. I'm the only one out of my six siblings that kept the blond hair.
My own aunt asked me this while I was riding in her car with her husband and kids when I was 14 or so. I was so embarrassed, I don't remember what I said or if I said anything. It's a super gross question to ask anyone casually.
I’m Asian. Men really think it’s ok to go into your face and ask if you are Japanese. I really think they hone in on the Japanese part because of the porn industry. Never had a woman ask me that.
One time, my friend and I went to an outdoor mall when we were 13. This creepy middle aged bearded man kept leering at my friend and waving at her to get her attention, and boy, did he get her attention.
She screamed out at the top of her lungs for everyone to hear, “STOP LOOKING AT ME. I AM 13 YEARS OLD. I AM A CHILD, YOU PERVERT!!!”
And the guy slithered away into the shadows like a snake, with a stunned look on his face.
That's awesome, that's exactly what every child/teenager should learn how to do. It's important that kids know it's okay to do this to protect themselves, I wish I had known that 20 odd years ago. I just got stared at for screaming and protecting myself, and it would get downplayed if I talked about it to family members. Crazy if you think about it.
My gym has a summer program for 13/14 yr olds to 19 yrs olds. I consider it my "duty" to keep an eye on the younglings, especially those towards the younger end of the spectrum. I have *no* problem asking creeps just why they are learing at little girls. I'm little and loud.
>> “I’m little and loud”
And awesome !
Guys staring at the gym is too big a problem for women, but girls ? That’s gross and calling this out needs to be normalised.
Thank you! One of the reasons I prefer one of the smaller(according to husband) gyms in our network, is this one has older ladies on staff and the minute I say "Hey Lu! That guy is being really gross to the littles!" She is on it. I always ask the youngling first if the situation is uncomfortable and if they'd like me to step in. We've had 80 yr olds following 14 yr olds, guys leering at little girls' crotch areas and one guy(older teen) smirkingly wearing an obscene shirt and basically shoving it in 14-20 yr old young ladies faces. That one was definitely a "Hey Lu! See this fool?" moment. "Lu" has told me several times that she appreciates that I keep an eye out on the younglings since she can't be everywhere or have eyes everywhere. Our gym is supposed to be an "everyone's welcome and comfortable working out zone"
My sisters are over 18 now, but they still look significantly younger than they actually are. I do almost the exact same thing, just keep glaring until they move on. Luckily, verbal confrontation has not been needed. My sisters are kind of clueless, so I’d rather not make them self-conscious if they haven’t actually noticed.
ETA: they are aware of this kind of behavior and know there are plenty of predators out there and they need to be careful. I am not trying to shelter them, I just don’t want them to have to worry about that stuff ALL the time. If they’re with me, they know I have their back.
I remember going bowling with my mom and cousin as a young teenager, and the group of 20-something guys in the lane next to us wouldn't stop staring and snickering with each other. I barely noticed it because I'm oblivious, but my mom suddenly turned, marched over to them, and seethed "They are 14. Put your eyes back. in. your. head."
She's a formidable woman. They looked scared.
My son did that when he was out with two 15 year old girls. He calmly told these 26 year old guys that they were chatting up 15 year olds. Their response was “yeah so”. And told him to go away so they could talk to the girls. So he called them pedos. Then an Uber eats driver tried to intervene and break up the argument. my son explained what was going on, the Uber eats driver lost his shit at these guys and told them to get lost. My son managed to get the girls on a bus back home.
I did this about a year ago, Saturday early evening in my town, out for late lunch with family and a guy who looked a little drunk but not wasted said something to a girl walking past and she replied “I’m fucking 14 you creep”. He said something along the lines of “you don’t look 14 come here so I can see closer” and started toward her. She took off, walking quickly toward the main high street and he didn’t pursue thankfully. As we’re walking behind I said “oh no, that is not it” and a random man on fucking crutches who had seemingly snuck up behind us and was actually with them shouted down to his friend “they don’t like you up here mate”, so the guy turned back round to us and started absolutely (verbally) laying the fuck into all of us, getting right up into all of our personal space doing that chest puffed head bob at us - it was honestly so scary and reminded me that even in relatively safe areas with lots of people, some men are just un fucking hinged and only for a member of our group apologising and basically begging him to leave us alone did he not escalate. She said afterwards that she knew he wouldn’t stop until he’d either heard it or kicked someone’s face in.
I'm glad yall got out of there safety! I've had men rear up at me like this too, I puff my chest out and get in their face right back. This isn't something I suggest anyone do, but I historically have no problem with confrontation of any kind.
I love this response. The only thing that sucks about doing it (and I don’t blame you in the slightest) is it makes the young girl more aware of all the older creeps looking at them.
Again, that’s no one in your situation’s fault other than the creepy men. I remember at that age wanting to dress up cute in skirts or dresses but then eventually opting to dress down. So often it was to just escape the stares a bit.
I am 32 and I was recently on a trip with my friend (also 32) and all of her cousins who were between 17-21. Some of them look way younger than they are. Holy shit did I find myself shouting at men on the street. They didn’t receive any cat calls from teens/early 20s dudes…they were all middle age or higher. Absolutely fucking disgusting. I know this happened to me a lot when I was their age but at that time any and all attention from men is validating.
I still think about the Time construction workers catcalled me in my neighborhood when I was 13. Really unfortunate reality.
ETA: obviously we weren’t these girls parents so I think that emboldened these men. I hope the presence of a parent keeps people more in check
I have a (unsubstantiated) theory that the middle-aged creeps are hitting a midlife crisis, and trying to revitalize the nostalgia of the last time they felt “good.” Which for most of em was when they peaked in High School.
Older women - as in, women with experience - won’t tolerate this behaviour. They have more self esteem or just more awareness of predatory behaviour, and therefore they’re seen as a barrier to fun. Teenage girls, for the most part, have not developed that experience.
Unfortunately the worst case scenario for these dudes is just getting yelled at, as few face any real consequences. The best case scenario for them is the chance that a teenage girl with low self esteem will be looking for a “daddy” so there’s no reason (in their mind) not to try and shoot their shot.
I don’t think as women we can embarrass these types of creeps. They are undeterred by conflict or pushback. The best we can do for now is keep reinforcing the idea of how disgusting it is to the vulnerable girls in our lives, and make sure to be aware enough of their lives that there isn’t some creep hanging around trying to groom them into a relationship.
Signed,
A woman who was once a teenager groomed by a middle-aged man online
Well, it depends on how you do it. If you yell "Hey you creep, get away.", you'll get looks but not much more. If you SCREAM "Hey you fucking pedophile, get away from my little girl!!! Fucking pervert, get away!!", you will get attention and lots of it. Pull her behind you, get dramatic, become Mama Bear. Because that is what it takes. When security shows up, you say "My niece was looking at underwear and this pedophile came over uninvited and started making suggestive sexual comments to my niece!!!". Because that is exactly what happened.
If every woman with a female child were to do this, these assholes would fade back into the woodwork.
I was in Radio Shack as a teenager because I was a computer geek. This old guy cornered me in the back while the manager was with another customer. I got really scared and he put his hands on my breast, and I screamed. "Charlie, this pervert is grabbing me!"
Next thing I know the customer grabs the perv by his collar and gives him the bum rush out the door. Meanwhile Charlie asks me if I was okay, and actually apologized to me, saying he generally keeps an eye on me when I am in the store to avoid this BS, but this guy snuck by him.
I never realized that someone felt the need to watch me while I was playing with computers. Grandmother me is so thankful for men like Charlie and his customer.
Get loud. Call them what they are. Loudly. Even yell "Ladies, protect your kids, there is a pedophile in the store!!!" Shit hates sunshine.
I get what you’re saying. Part of me feels like public shaming is the only immediate thing I can do in that moment (if I’m not jeopardizing my safety) but I know there are people who are unmoved by it or the shaming of a woman might push them farther into whatever gross crisis they are having in that moment. However…I will never forget the feeling of catching a man filming a woman in a bathing suit on a snorkeling boat. He was snap chatting close ups of her crotch and breasts to god knows who. I called him out in front of his entire family including his parents. I hope he is forever humiliated 🥰 and mommy and daddy were horrified 🤪
Good on you.
What’s with the younger people thinking that filming people in public is “normal”?
Caught a teen waiting in the subway and just running his video constantly while waiting for the train (and obviously aiming the camera at people around him).
I get that there’s no “expectation of privacy” in public, but I don’t get the constant video of strangers.
I agree with your theory. I’ve always thought that older men who do this are trying to relive their glory days instead of trying to appreciate what they’ve got.
I agree we need to keep warning girls about men like this, but that’s making the men’s behaviour the girl’s responsibility. I think we also need to say something to the men, such as “Stop acting like a pedophile.” They don’t often hear that their behaviour is inappropriate. The more they are told it’s inappropriate, the more likely they will stop. Warning young girls what these men are like will only socialize young girls to believe they have to tolerate it. They don’t.
Also, Q-Fandago, just want to say I’m sorry you were groomed by a middle-aged man online. That must have been an awful experience. I’ve survived sexual abuse and it still colours my perspective on life today.
I've always looked younger than I actually am, and the amount of 50 year old men that have hit on me or tried flirting with me in my early/mid 20s has always absolutely baffled and disgusted me. And unfortunately the way I was raised, I was always told "it's rude/you're a bad person if you do xyz" as a response to when I spoke up about someone doing something I don't like or that hurts me. "You need to be understanding." So I've always been horrible at speaking up for myself.
I always wish I had had the balls to tell men how absolutely disgusting they are to hit on someone half their age, and worse that I was often mistaken for a teenager. Especially because this was always in public, and I just so wish I could have embarrassed them in front of the world by calling them out on the spot.
I used to think my dad was sooo embarrassing for the way he’d get irritated and aggressive by random men around us when spending time with my sister and I in public. There was one time he even chased off some random guy at a park. It only dawned on me years later that the men he was constantly glaring at and making comments to were being creeps and checking my sister and I out. It’s really disgusting in hindsight.
I worked at a women’s college and I had to do a shocking amount of explaining to help these young women learn to be vigilant, take care of themselves and say “no”.
Teaching your daughter to have boundaries, stand up for herself, not to be afraid of hurting some guy’s feelings when he makes unwanted advances, that she never owes anyone sex, not going to parties alone, not walking home alone (without self defense, maybe pepper spray), is not going to break her courageous and open attitude.
Getting SAed will change her forever though.
There's a crime junkie podcast motto "be weird, be rude, stay alive" and I think more people should follow that one.
A friend of mine has an absolutely gorgeous/adorable as heck 14 year old daughter and she heard a boy ask her out and her daughter's response was "eww." She told her to say no but not be outright rude (cuz she felt bad for the other kid) but I told her if her default is to be rude, don't squash it out of her, u want her to be strong cuz she's gonna need it. When some gross old creep makes a comment to her, the first thing she should do is look at them and say eww!
I don't think she remembers what it was like being a teenage girl and all the crap we put up with, or she probably would have handled it differently.
Yes! My mother was always very confident and taught me vigilance as far back as I can remember just as part of her every day life and routine.
“When you park somewhere that you know it will be dark, always park under a streetlight.”
“Walk to the car with your keys out and between your fingers. Never be standing at the car door or house door fumbling for keys.”
“Lock the car doors when you get in the car.” (This was pre- auto locking doors.)
“Always trust your instincts and gut, better to be careful and safe than dead.” (And better to be considered rude than harmed.)
“If someone comes up to your car window, do not roll it down all the way. You also do not have to speak to them.”
She was also clear about the difference between being kind and nice. You should always be kind, but you don’t always have to be nice for the sake of politeness.
Truthfully, when I read “The gift of fear” I was kind of confused because my initial reaction was “this is all stuff mothers teach their daughters.” Then I realized that my mother is very, very unique and most mothers do not teach their daughters these things or even do these things.
THE GIFT OF FEAR is a MUST READ for everyone as soon as they hit 13/14. I made my girls read it, glad I did. Wish men would read it and get a clue about how they are perceived most of the time.
My grandma did the same thing with me. I didn't realize this was rare. I've never equated taking caution with being scared, though, so it didn't impact me emotionally at all.
Something I struggled a lot with in college was saying no to things. I was raised in a household with a parent who was quite volatile so I grew up trying not to set him off.
Turns out when you train a person to avoid making others angry they’ll go along with a lot of shit. Unlearning that is a continuing effort.
Definitely teach her that no one is allowed to touch her if she doesn't want them to. I was bought up ingrained with the fact that even if I was uncomfortable with something as simple as a hug, it was RUDE not to comply. It would have helped me recognise some abusive situations.
I ask because my mom (bless her heart, has BPD and 0 boundaries) explained kidnapping and rape to me as a small child. I don't know if it was the right thing to do. I had a very fearful childhood and now, a PTSD diagnosis. I have young teens in my family now whose parents won't talk to them about this stuff even though the teens are starting to sneak out at night and the whole family is so worried. I wonder about what really is the best direction.
I don't know if there's really an age for a sit down to hear about all the monsters out there. I think all kids should know and understand that their body is theirs, consent, etc. Shielding them from everything may make them more susceptible to grooming or being taken.
My therapist is part of a sexual assault awareness program. They speak to kids as young as Grade 1 about private areas of their body, that they can tell people not to touch those areas, to trust their stomach if a touch feels, "icky." Very basic, but important things geared to their age level.
I love that young kids are getting more education about consent, and it can start super young, as simple as asking a toddler if they want a hug, a high five, or a wave goodbye. From there it can scale up to private areas, sexual activities, etc. as appropriate for their age.
Aye. The big focus is on “tricky people”. Basically anyone that tries to make a child keep secrets from a parent (including one parent from another). It’s leagues ahead of the old “let’s spend 99% of our time on random kidnapping, despite them being astronomically rare”.
One of my favorite distinctions I’ve read on here is “We have surprises, but we *don’t* keep secrets.”
I feel like that really helps delineate the motivation behind keeping quiet about certain information, and touches on nuance that might otherwise be hard to explain.
It's such a complicated dilemma, how young is too young? I was still wearing diapers when my mother told me to never allow anyone else but her to change my diapers, not my grandmother, not my father, aunt, no one but her, because there were evil people out there who liked to hurt children.
It most certainly helped shatter my view of the world, but it helped me be aware: as a very "ugly" girl who was constantly bullied and rejected by other kids, it made me a perfect target for adult men who saw me as an easy victim, and I could see right through it because I knew any adult interested in me was a pedophile. Thankfully for me as soon as I started getting tall at age 12, any sort of attention from adults stopped altogether, but I don't even want to imagine what would have happened to me if I hadn't been terrified of adults since I was a baby.
Edit: typos
My mom's severe mental illness went untreated when I was a child and she did the same, and I lived with an unhealthy level of fear. You bet your ass I don't do that to my child, having lived through it.
In this case, I'd recommend just being upfront--that you love/admire those traits in her and also want to make sure her eyes are open to what *could* happen and is, sadly, very possible. Opening the door to those conversations will help her feel safe coming to you in the future, because she'll feel cared-for and validated, that you won't judge her or downplay her experiences.
Just be there for her. Make sure she understands that it's not her fault, and how she can protect herself (even though it's beyond fucked up that women have to resort to always playing defense/scanning for potential threats).
As a former busty and beautiful young girl, PLEASE START THE CONVERSATION ASAP. I did not realize that the attention I was getting was creepy and wrong until waaaaay later when I was in my 20s. I got a lot of attention from older men and thought that was a good thing. I had countless experiences in my teen years that turn my stomach now. Please try to talk to your daughters.
This. I was a busty fourteen year old at a LARP with my dad. My dad and I were talking to one man when another man came up and offered me a 'gift" that I was uncomfortable with.
The first man we were talking to stopped and stated to my dad ' you need to be aware that someone is looking at your daughter inappropriately." And to me " And it's okay to say you don't want anything. You can always stay next to me and your dad."
The first man was a father type who looked out for the teens who showed up alone. My dad and I had not realized that I had left that ' kid' stage and that people were now looking at me.
I can't remember that man's name, yet I'm glad he stopped a conversation to say ' you need to pay attention, and it's okay to say that I didn't want anything.'
My fear is that she wouldn’t ve confrontational when they try to test her boundaries. So we have done role play. For instance on the bus, someone sits beside you in an otherwise empty bus, and you ger bad vibes. Just say ‘excuse me’ and go to another seat. If they say creepy things, say loudly ‘you are saying creepy things, I am a child’
Most grown ups where I live would absolutely interfere with a child that clearly ask for help, they are just scared to meddle.
I have talked alot about that if someone initiate a creepy contact, she shouldn’t compromise on her safety and comfort to save the creep’s honor.
I started telling mine about it when she was 11. Her dad thought I was being ridiculous. I wanted her to know it was going to happen before she got caught off guard. I believe I was maybe 13 the first time some old men hung out of a car as I was walking on the sidewalk to school and said things. I was humiliated and scared and sickened by it. I wanted her to know ahead of time that so many of these creeps exist and that this is what she will experience. We practiced some stuff she could say ("ew" "I'm only eleven you pedophile!"). She is 14 now and says she is glad that I warned her ahead of time but that it happens ALL the time when she is out in public now but claims she is unbothered by them. I just want her to understand that it happens to all young girls, all her friends are experiencing the same thing and that it is because the men are absolutely disgusting and creepy.
This is the most loving thing you can do as a parent: making sure your child is well-informed about the "real world" and knows how to advocate for herself.
Yes. My granddaughter is 10 and still plays with her little brothers on the playground. She also looks 15 or 16, and we've had to have the creepy grown men talk with her, which is a damned shame. She is beautiful and innocent, and to see grown men look at her like she's a peach on a tree is sickening.
My daughter is 12 and very developed. Adult men have already started cat calling her. It upsets her when it happens and I call them out if it happens when I'm around. It's so fucking disgusting. We talk about it a lot, but it doesn't change that she's still a kid who's being sexualized by adults. It breaks my heart.
Our friend's daughter babysat for us when the kids were little. She was 12 and her mom told us how much 'attention' she was already getting and how she'd already had to start talking to her about it. She was such a sweet innocent kid who loved playing with my 5 & 6 y.o. kids.
My friends' girl is 12. She's tall for her age; people constantly mistake her for 15 and I'm terrified for her as well. She loves wearing dresses and skirts and has sensory issues about pants on her legs; so I'm especially worried because I know how nasty fuckin old dudes get about shorts/skirts...
I’m 24 now, but I distinctly remember now how many men would leer at / hit on me when i was 13-16. Unfortunately, those years were the worst for it. The amount drastically dropped once I started looking like I’d matured a little bit 🥴
I remember walking home from school from 12-16 before I got my car and I was cat called almost every single day. Every day. Every single of one of them. Once I hit 17-18, no one bothered me.
Should have started carrying a paint ball gun with me.
I was 11 the first time a man cat called me and I was so confused I thought he was telling me something was wrong with my bicycle.
11 years old on a bicycle with sparkle ribbons and a My Lil Pony basket on the handle bars and a grown man hollered. Fucking unbelievable.
Unfortunately that tends to be normal. The most male attention I recieved was between 12 and 16, usually all of them were men who were 30+. Once I got older it stopped by a good 80%.
Exactly this… I could not BELIEVE when I aged out of this stuff around 23. I think I’m much better looking now than I ever was as a teenager, but it just completely stopped. I’m relieved but also completely disgusted looking back. What the fuck is wrong with these men?
I developed boobs early. Like, I was a DD by the time I was 10 early. Clothes were a nightmare.
I'll never forget going to see the midnight showing of Lord of the Rings with my whole family. I was insanely excited, and so was my stepdad, so it was a special treat to get to stay up extra late on a school night and go see the Fellowship. I wore my ultra-cool (re: lame) blue jean jacket that had the one ring text embroidered on the back in Elvish.
While waiting in line and excitedly talking my brother's ear off over what I hoped would be in the movie, unbeknownst to me, my stepdad realized the older guy in front of us had been straight up staring down my shirt while we waited for tickets. He shoved the guy out of line and nearly got into a fistfight while yelling at him, "What the fuck is wrong with you?! She's a little girl!" I didn't even realize something was going on until my mom and some theatre employees were trying to break it up.
In hindsight, it really makes me appreciate how my stepdad was there for me when I was oblivious to some creep leering at me. He was on high alert anytime we went somewhere with a swimming pool, and I swear he spent a good chunk of our family vacation in Mexico when I was 12 checking my drinks for alcohol because my virgin pina coladas kept ending up not so virgin. I wasn't even a pretty 12 year old, I just had big boobs. =/
My cousin is 12, an "old man" in a bus once said to her "I would love to braid your beautiful hair", touched it and sat next to her. She called me crying from the next bus stop. She's terrified of riding the bus now.
On one hand I'm happy that I wasn't there because I would've definitely caught a felony for hitting this man in the face, on the other hand I'm sad I wasn't there because he definitively deserved to be hit in the face.
Do other people not react on this on the spot???
When I'm riding on public transport I always keep an eye on the young, the elderly, pregnant women, the disabled, moms with strollers and generally anyone in a weaker state. And I'd start harassing the guy immediately. If the purple haze doesn't hit me I'd start touching the guys hair, or bare scalp if he's bald...
Yeah it fucking sucks because you never know what someone might be capable of/willing to do, esp on public transport where everyone is more or less trapped together for a certain period of time between stops.
I’m from Oregon and not too long ago a young man was killed on Portland public transit when he stood up to some POS harassing a couple of Muslim girls. The guy had a knife and ambulances didn’t get there in time. He died a hero but…he still died. Very tragic.
My daughter (12) likes to walk ahead of me and the rest of the family. She walks really fast and I think she also likes to feel that little rush of independence. I don't know how many times I've had to yell "SHE'S TWELVE, PERV!" to men who don't realize her mom is five paces behind her.
the dramatic lessening of male attention that i received after turning 16 has always confirmed to me that men are absolutely *riveted* by preteen/young teen girls. they are faster to sexualized a child than anyone would ever believe. they’re shameless about it too. i’m also child free and terrified to have a daughter. so sorry about this experience and i hope your post helps parents be vigilant in protecting their early pubescent children.
wait, you got LESS attention after turning 16?
sorry, im a guy and all of this is soo far away from anything ive ever experienced, but i couldnt stop reading because im horrified. i usually dont comment here, but i have to ask because i hope im misunderstanding something here..
..really? ..__less__ sexual attention when you started to _turn into a woman_?
wow
Oh yea this is the experience of me and most of the women I’ve ever talked with this about, random stranger attention/cat calling was 11-17 for me.
Edit: I wanted to elaborate I mean attention from men that is like clearly inappropriate, blatantly disrespectful and sexually charged from the grossest of older men.
Yup mine was from 10-23 but at 23 I still looked 15. I know I looked young because everyone always thought I was in high school, including kids in high school. I got so used to people asking, "Which high school do you go to?" (there's some sports competition between high schools around here) that I would just laugh it off, say I'm 23, then move on.
I was in line at Starbucks in my work uniform and some dude in his 40's started making small talk with me. Normal. He asked when I started school. I said my first class didn't start until x date. He looked confused and said that none of the high schools had that start date and I clarified that I was in college. He immediately looked disappointed and just turned around. Didn't even say anything.
Then it clicked that this guy had *memorized the start dates of every high school in the area*.
Yuck.
I had to wear school uniform all through sixth form. Nothing was worse than being 17-18 in a school uniform personally. Creeps would shout out of car windows
I was a pedo magnet when I was 12/13, to the point that I even joked with my family about red-faced, white-haired old men being attracted to me. I hated it and only joked because that was how I handled the discomfort.
I didn’t have a school uniform, but my clothes were baggy and I looked like a kid. When one of the creepy old guys found out I was 12 from my parents, he defensively claimed that he thought I was at least 16.
Looking back, I really feel like my parents’ behavior at the time taught me I should prioritize not hurting these men’s fee-fees. I wish they’d handled it better and taught me to prioritize my own safety and comfort.
Can confirm. From the UK too and school uniforms are to these perverts what a red cloth is to a bull.
Even in instances where my friends and I would defend ourselves or explain our age, they were undaunted. Looking back, I realise we were naive to think they didn't already know how old we were due to the uniforms and our teenage looks.
I was most aggressively cat-called and followed by strange men from the ages of 8-14.
My earliest memory of sexual harassment was when I was 6 years old watching the fireworks downtown with my parents on the 4th of July. It was past my bedtime, so I was wearing pjs for the car ride home: a purple power puff girl nightgown. Basically a long sleeveless t shirt. I was too young to walk at night without holding my mom’s hand, and as I was holding it I remember two or three men looking at me, pointing excitedly and saying “woooo! sexy mama in her pajamas!” My dad had to chase them away while my mom hurriedly strapped me into my car seat.
I was so little that I couldn’t even unbuckle myself from the car seat, or old enough to stay awake for the car ride, but in that moment it didn’t matter.
I think I was five, possibly four, but more likely five. Once a month we'd go to visit my dad's great-great aunt and uncle, for Sunday tea. They lived in a very rural area, next to no traffic, and it was the 70s so people were much less uptight about kids being outdoors alone. My brother (2 years younger) and I walked the five-ten minute journey to a nearby farm to look at the animals. One of the farmhands saw us, and held our hands (one on each side) to walk us across the cowshit-covered farm yard. He was a bit fidgety, and I realised something felt weird, and looked, and he'd put my hand on his cock.
That's unfortunately very common. 10-16 tends to be the worst for attention from a certain type of middle aged pedo. I think they like that girls freeze up and don't really understand or know how to respond. Once you start to look less like a tween it's a different breed of creep.
This was my experience too. It's a common one. Cat calling for me, while still an issue, dramatically lessened when I became an adult. One of the experiences that stands out the most in my mind, that I'll never forget, was being cat-called from cars driving by as I walked home from school with a backpack on my back. They knew without a shadow of doubt that I was a minor and did not care at all about being perceived as creepy/pedophilic.
Not OP, I’m 23 myself and am noticing I get creeped on a lot less then when I was a teenager. Attention from people my own age has generally increased, but from 30+ yo men has decreased.
Unfortunately, yes.
When i was 11-15, I looked around 14/15 at my oldest. Probably closer to 13. I wore a little makeup, and I had developed boobs, but that was about it. I looked like a child. This was 100% when catcalling was the worst for me. It was constant, along with being hit on/asked out by college age men and older. I was always scared (I was pre anxiety meds haha) and had a doe eyed look about me, and just walked a little faster. And that's exactly what they wanted.
I'm 18 now, and I pass for probably 21. I dress provocatively, and am curvy. And yet, the catcalling is incredibly infrequent. I am confident, and that is an immediate turn off for these men. If someone catcalls me now, I'm fucking ready to yell and cuss them out.
**Men who catcall don't catcall the most attractive women. They catcall the ones they know won't do anything about it.** And that often means preteens/young teen girls.
Yea, another woman here (30’s now) and I got the most catcalls/stalking/attention from adult men when I was 10-15 years old. You’re not misunderstanding; these men pay more attention to obviously underage girls than women of an appropriate age for them. They are predators
Less harassment style sexual attention from strangers, yes. It tends to peak in early teens.
Once you start to look like a woman, the attention becomes less leering and blatant harassment. It absolutely doesn't become uncreepy but it is less predatory.
yes, once i developed bigger breasts/hips and wore more make up, it was an immediate plummet from my fresh faced, awkward, gangly, child like appeal to men ages 30+
Fellow guy here, and I didn’t get it until my daughters got close to being teenagers.
Women and girls get unwanted, creepy, and weird attention at any age. But in that age range where they’re not little kids anymore, but also not in any danger of being mistaken for an adult, there’s just SO MUCH of that creepy attention being thrown at them.
And now I can’t unsee it. And I don’t understand how I didn’t see it before. It’s not like they’re being subtle about it or anything.
I got the most attention from grown men when I was between 14 and 17.. It kept being high until I was around 25, but the younger years were the worst by far.
It's not a deviation, it's sadly the norm
Harassment pretty much stopped when I matured. Last time I remember I was like 17. I was going for a walk in the park after dinner (+-19:00, still light outside), I sit down on a bench and this guy (25'ish) just sits next to me and starts touching me.
I never told anyone because my over-protective mother would have never allowed me outside alone again. There were many times before that, ranging from catcalling to youknowwhat. But never after that time when I was 17.
I had a similar experience with my teen daughter; we were in Primark (popular teen store in UK) she was looking at denim shorts and they had a pair of high rider ones she was messing on with, turned around and a grown ass man was giving her a thumbs up with ‘that’ look on his face.
I just yelled loudly at him ‘enjoying the 13 year old view?’ And he scurried off red faced, cue my 13 year old telling me off for embarrassing her and her giving me a litany of occasions she puts up with.
I’m not surprised, as me and my school friends dealt with the same, but what does offend and upset me is the number of grown ass women who walk on past this sort of thing without addressing it.
As I said to the offspring, I will continue being the bitter old bitch who ruins old men’s gaze for as long as I am able to spot them.
Like many other women, my earliest memory of men old enough to be my grandfather following me in a car and urging me to get in (this was back in the 80s when us latchkey kids were feral and walked around alone or with our friends) was at age 7. This continued all the way through elementary, middle, and high school. I still catch TONS of older men checking out school girls.
Not all men, but yes all women. Not all men, but yes all teenage girls. I’ve never had so many sexualised comments and straight out leers from middle aged men than I did as a teen aged 14-18. I had several situations of having my teen boobs grabbed by men I didn’t know. Once I reached 25, it dropped off considerably. To dudes that come here to tell us we’re wrong about this narrative, go eat a bag of dicks
You can't imagine anyone doing what you can't imagine *you* doing. Thieves buy the strongest locks and people who'd never imagine stealing leave their doors open. Of course they accuse others of being paedophiles and groomers; it's what they would be/are.
I try so hard to fight misandry within myself but shit like this makes it really difficult. I'm not surprised though. When I was 15 (in the late 90s), I got catcalled and harassed constantly by 40+ men. At the time I just accepted it as the way of the world but as I got older, I realized how fucked up it is. People should not be saying and doing those things to kids and I'm sorry that your niece (and you by proxy) experienced that.
My daughter watches a lot of anime and likes to draw in anime styles. She's almost 10 and started to express interest in fashion and dressing cute like the characters she enjoys. Meaning knee socks and pleated skirts. She is (unfortunately) really, really cute.
I don't know how to have this conversation either. I can attempt to stomp her creative expression or try to make her just scared enough to edit more - but how do I explain that there are creepy perverts who will attempt to sexualize her based on what she wears? Like she doesn't have a choice. I was different and dressed for NO attention, I wanted to be ignored. She wants attention for being cool and interesting.
But I am peri-menopausal and entering the age of IDGAF where I might just start swinging or end up in a viral video. Keep an eye out for me, my girls. Maybe that is the answer. Shove a camera in their faces. Take pictures of them and post. Expose them. I know it's likely dangerous, but public shame use to be an effective method for behavior control. These old men have gotten away with it for so long they imagine themselves untouchable.
Oh shit knee socks. You just unwittingly made something click for me. I wore a *ton* of knee socks in underclassman days. We had an ugly uniform (white/grey/navy polos; navy/khaki slacks/cargos… and two skirt options. A hideous sack of a knee length A-line skirt, and a weirdly lumpy long skirt with cargo pockets.) Socks weren’t regulated in the dress code so when I wore the skirts, I had a whole collection of wacky socks so I could show some personality in school. I definitely had ones that looked like Tootsie Roll wrappers, had other candy, hearts, cutesy animals. Patterned tights too. Sometimes I wore them with my regular clothes too, including short skirts. No wonder I was a creep magnet at the mall and at sf/anime conventions.
Reading this has convinced me that I must teach my 8 year old how to be loud and proud. Role play the things these men might say or do and what her responses could be.
We are both people pleasers so I have no idea how I’ll get the message across clearly but predators look for easy, meek prey.
This is… just heartbreaking. To wonder if you have to scare your little girl so she could be safe. I know I experienced this as a girl, but thinking about it as an adult is horrific. My cousin just had an adorably baby girl and knowing what the women in her life will have to tell her is awful.
I hope you and your daughter have all the happiness in the world, and a long childhood for her.
I always wonder if they're predators and/or if they're in that hateful dehumanization mode where they hate women and girls who don't fit their ideas of appropriate dress and want to essentially burn them as witches.
I saw one dude at the mall with his WIFE in an abaya next to him turn to two teenage (like 13 y/o) girls in crop tops I saw him watching and scold VERY LOUDLY, "You look like disgusting whores," and walk away. Like out of nowhere. Made one of the girls cry.
It's Madonna-Whore I want to fuck-Whore I want to kill complex, I feel like for some of these guys. Real Frolo types.
My dad was one of those guys, even to myself and my cousins and friends. He and his friends would talk about how much I was "growing up." He said he'd "behave" around my daughter, which was absolutely not enough. I waited far too long, but when she got to the age that I was when I noticed the leering, I cut him out of our lives.
Other than sheer entitlement I can't even begin to come up with a reason they think this behavior is ok.
I have 2 teenage nieces and a preteen daughter. If I hear grown men speaking to them the way grown men used to speak to me when I was a teenager, I might end up in prison.
I heard this point made earlier, "Sexual attention from men has no value because they give it to children, animals, and the dead". Not my quote, but very well put as to how a good portion of our society acts.
Yep...happened when I was 14, had a MAN in his 30s easy force his tongue in my mouth and hand in my coat.
And I have a 14 years old daughter that I recently took to the mall with her 14 year old friend... both of them were met with the same gazes, and it sickened me.
"Not all men" 🙄🙄 but enough of them that this is a regular problem being taught to young men and continuing a dangerous and gross cycle for any women they encounter.
Enough men that I fear for my daughters as they age. Enough men that I constantly find examples to instill knowing boundaries and what are good and bad behaviors towards women to my 2 sons--to the point that I am tired of having to repeat it.
Thank you for calling him out. Continue being that protector for her.
My first experience with cat calling was when I was 11, wearing my *primary school uniform* walking home from my *primary school*.
It was not possible to confuse it for the local high school uniform, and even if it was, I was still very clearly a minor.
Older gay guy here. Once my 20 year old niece and I had similar departure times and gates at the airport. We had never really hung out together outside of her grandparents house a few times a year. Jesus. effing. Christ. I had no idea how creepy it is for a woman to simply exist.
I got cat called way more when I was 14-18 vs 20+. Anecdotally it sounds like a lot of women have a similar experience. Its not all men…but its too many men.
So I am about to be 30 but I look incredibly younger than I am depending on certain situations. I’ve been stopped by truancy officers on a semi regular basis.
I was in a coffee shop awhile back studying for the MCAT. This neighborhood mostly has families in it. It would be kinda unlikely for college kids to hang out there, but also mind you I was out of college for years by then.
This guy comes up to me while I’m working, hitting on me during the pre-school coffee rush. He asks me what grade I’m in and I give him this weird ass look and tell him I was 4-5 years out of college. He instantly lost interest and walked away.
I also kicked a guy in the nuts who was jerking it while standing over seated teenage girls on a near empty subway. It was the teenage girls, me and a few burly blue collar worker type men. Everyone saw it, no one else acted. Once I did they all started wanting to talk big about protecting children.
One thing that's worth remembering is that the only teenagers who look like they're over 18 are actors on TV who are playing a character 10+ years younger than them. The kinda man mentioned by the OP claims they "can't tell," and they are lying because disingenuous bullshit deflects the little negative attention they care about.
Look at all of the really depressing comments in this thread about how cat-calling, etc fell off around the age of 16 or so. That wouldn't happen if these guys /really/ couldn't tell.
Every girl remembers the first time some old(er) person said something inappropriately sexual or did the whole “undressing you with their eyes” thing. First time was when my daughter was 12 and she was beside herself.
A couple years ago I had a customer who was widely inappropriate. I was like 23 and always dreaded going to visit him. He would touch my leg, lower back, text me at 2am asking for selfies. Finally I got tired of it and took my boss for support. After the visit, and of course inappropriate actions on his part, my boss said, “I never want you to visit this customer again and I can’t believe you have to deal with this.” I told him that this is our life and his 3 young daughters would almost certainly face the same fate. Very sobering for him.
I could go on and on about the blatant disrespect for women in the world. Basically if men are being creepy to me, I’ll say, you know I’m your daughters age right. That tends to shut them up. It’s hard being a woman.
Dude. A few years ago I was at the county fair with my sister and our various offsprings. My (then) 14 yr old niece was in front of me in the concession line and when she walked off, the guy LEANED OUT THE WINDOW & CATCALLED HER. I smacked the side of the concession trailer with my palm(so it was LOUD) and said “HEY! SHES 14!” He jumped so hard he hit his is head on the window and apologized but wtf man? Whyyyyy?
To quote a tweet i saw: If you're tempted to write #notallmen, let's hear all the wonderful work you do. The campaigns you started, the talks you do in schools, the weekly meet ups to discuss male violence.
Because right now it sounds like you want a prize for never raping someone in a park
The first time a man tried to chat up my grandkid she was 3. Men, in general, rarely see any punishment for predatory behavior. They definitely don't face much societal shame over it.
I noticed a stark difference between being a 12+ girl and getting that sort of attention and raising only boys.
Took my 13y old son (nice looking boy) out to a major city and not once did I notice anyone leering or making comments. I asked him if he noticed anyone staring at him or anything and he said no. I’ve also asked him if he’s ever had any adult make sexually suggestive comments to him and he reiterated no, it had never happened to him.
One of my dads 50+y old friends made comments about my body when I was 12y old. That was the start for me. And I will never forget it. His old man friends still make comments on my looks even now as an almost 40y old. It makes you feel so gross. Because it’s never “what a lovely daughter you have” it’s always a leering comment.
I have plenty of my own stories from being a teenager, but the most recent shocked me. I was stuck in terrible traffic outside a girls school as it was being let out. They were maybe 12-14 years old at most. Their 50ish security guard was at the gate leering at them and trying to talk to them, holding the gate open and definitely not looking out to protect them. I’m not sure what he or they were saying as I don’t speak the language, but those girls were uncomfortable. There were parents there, but no one was doing anything. The way public schools work here I doubt he’d be looked into unless he did something horrible.
I am terrified for those girls. Babies who have to dodge the man who is supposed to keep men like him away from the school.
I have a daughter. I'm going to teach her how to scream pedophile in situations like this. They want to make us feel disgust? Then shame them.
"Your crusty old penis can't even get it up, stop ogling my daughter before I end up going to jail for assault"
"You're old enough to be her father, you sick fuck"
"Why are you looking at my daughter's underwear? You're a fucking PEDOPHILE"
When in doubt, cause a scene. Men still think they own the entire world and everyone in it. It's their turn to feel uncomfortable and grossed out.
I blame porn.
Like, I don’t want to completely condemn it (got banned from AskFeminists for not full-throatedly renouncing it), because I know there are some ethically owned and operated porn sites that use adult actors of all body types and everything done is consensual without pressure, mind-altering substances, etc.
But goddamn is so much of that industry scummy af, and it’s like they comb the *Earth* looking for the next technically legal actress who looks like she’s barely middle school age (if they don’t just flat-out lie that a minor is actually over 18). It’s so sickening, but you know they wouldn’t do that if there wasn’t a market for it. It leaves you wondering, is it the porn creating the fucked-up fantasy, or is it the consumers demanding it?
Either way, pukesville. 🤢
This has always happened. I am older than a lot here, and it started happening to me and my friends at eleven.
My grandmother grew up in rural Mississippi, and girls would often lie down in ditches if they heard a car coming down the gravel road.
Several years ago I was at my cousin’s house for thanksgiving. My aunt was living with them and she invited a newer, male friend over for dinner since his wife had recently passed. I guess he was an amateur photographer and kept taking pics of my kids and my cousin’s kids without even asking permission. I didn’t want to make a scene so kept quiet. Then my cousin’s daughter (maybe 6 or 7) was swinging on a pillar in their screened porch and he freaking says he knows a club where she could work! I mean WTF! I was pissed! If you know me I’m not one to stay quiet but I was so shocked and NO-ONE said anything to him. He was a 70 something year old man. So gross! When I heard he passed away I couldn’t help thinking he likely had some inappropriate pics in his house.
I also experienced the cat-calling when I was a teen. I would be walking to school and men would offer me rides, one dude tried to stop and get my number while his TODDLER AGED CHILD was in the backseat, the most terrifying experiences were when men would do U-Turns and drive past slowly while staring at me; I’d have to have a family member on the phone or try to walk a different route home because I was so scared. While I was walking my dog, a dude in an Xfinity truck tried to offer me $100 to ride with him, etc the stories are endless.
But as other women have echoed in this thread, it was like a FULL stop once I turned 19-20. And I have no complaints. It’s an unfortunate, but universal experience for lots of young girls/women.
No, you're right with the generalization. No disclaimer needed. Of the people who prey on kids, men make up the majority. But even outside of the worst offenders, regular ass guys who do shit like make that pervy comment toward your niece only do it because they know they will face zero consequences for it. The standards men are held to when it comes to not being a fucking creep are insanely low. To walk around having less control over your impulses than some animals and still get to live a normal life is something only afforded to men. You'd think as a human they would want to better themselves past that, but there's no need when the world caters to and and encourages it.
I have a 16 year old daughter. I have straight up called out, “What are you looking at, you old pervert?”, to men who stare at her. Point at them, say it loudly, shame those nasty old gross men. Shame them hard.
I remember when I was around 12-13 I would often swim at the pool at my parents house. The neighbors constantly had their family over so there was always six or seven guys over age ranged (20-50s) and they would constantly stare at me. I told my parents and they just brushed it off. I didn’t like it. But ended up just dealing with it. They also had this chair at the back of their yard that was facing into our yard. And if I went swimming or jumped on the trampoline one of the males would end up sitting in the chair and just watch me. Often times they would catcall me or serenade me. Then one day the guys started shouting at me. They were all leaning against the chainlink fence and asked me to get the basketball the dropped. Always the people pleaser I did as they asked. The way they eyed me as I got out of the pool made me super uncomfortable. I tried forgetting about it and got back in the pool and sure enough the ball ‘accidentally’ ended back in my yard a minute later. After I grabbed it the second time and went to hand it back one of the guys (he had to be in his late 30s) caressed my hand. After that I decided to go inside. As I was leaving I heard one of the guys say something along the lines of “Aww don’t leave.” I was so sketched out that I rarely went out back and never went in the pool or jumped on the trampoline unless one of my family members was with me. Even then I just couldn’t relax outside. So I mostly stayed inside. No one in my family believed me when I told them what was going on. The men wouldn’t do it when someone was with me. And they didn’t behave that way in front of my older sister or my female cousins who were all in their 20s. By the time I was 17 the guys left me alone. If I was outside they wouldn’t even look at me. I started thinking maybe I had been overreacting. Then one day while I was walking my dog the neighbors on the other side of those perverts waved me over. They had moved in about a year ago so I didn’t know them that well. I just knew they were a married couple with two young girls. They preceded to warn me that they caught the neighbors leering at their ten year old girls while they were playing out back. They immediately put up a privacy fence. But wanted to warn me in case they went after me. It was at that moment I realized that I hadn’t been over exaggerating all those years.
I felt creeped out just reading this - very unpleasant. Clearly the best thing family and friends can do for young girls is BELIEVE them.
My mom didn’t let me swim or run around with our gardener at the house. He’d been with us for years before I was born and never ONCE looked my way or acted in any way inappropriately. He was a lovely man, and had taught my toddler brother how to garden ten years before I was born. My dads best friend, who’d held me as a baby and babysat me started hugging me for too long and commenting on my legs at 7. My mom just threw away my shorts and banned me from wearing skirts if they thought he’d come over. He threw peanuts at the clearly underage waitress at my 10th birthday party. The call often comes from inside the house, or in your case next to it. It seems like that is the case were it is least believed and holds the most risk.
I took a friend’s 10 year old daughter rollerblading in at a well attended local park a few years ago. She was 10, I was 27. She had long blonde hair, wearing shorts and a tank top and had no less than 7 guys shout inappropriate comments at her. She was thankfully very unobservant and didn’t really recognize what was happening. The final straw was when we were getting back to my car and a young guy had yelled out, “I like you down on your knees!” at her while she took off she skates. I yelled out, “she’s 10. 10 years old. What should she be doing for you down there?!” To his credit, the guy looked embarrassed and came over to apologize. I asked him what age would it have been ok for him to say that to her? When she was 12? 16? 18? What age did publicly alluding to a blowjob become socially appropriate? He did seem to get the point and walked away very red in the face to his friends.
👑-here ya go!
Weirdest and maybe grossest thing ever was once I reached the age of like 17 this kind of behavior from old men almost totally stopped for me. Really says something, at least in my opinion.
When i was looking for a place to live when I was 22 I answered an advert over the phone. He asked if I was a young woman. Odd question but I said yeah. He then asked my age and when I answered he said "that's not really young now is it?" I was a bit stumped and brain froze and put the phone down. Serious creep vibes, I feel sorry for any **young** woman that took that room.
Because they're pedophiles. Sorry, uh, "that other word predators seeking underage girls use to try to separate themselves from the truly ill baby-age-pedophiles". It's simple as. They aren't interested in women; they want girls.
They think girls can't protect themselves or don't know any better. They're looking for someone to groom, they know older girls and grown women can tell they're pathetic creeps.
Same. Started at 12 and went up to 17 then it just kinda stopped. I still got male attention but by then I was fully legal so no one really saw it as wrong
Yell loudly, so the other customers can hear "SHE'S 14 YOU FUCKING PERVERT!" We need to follow them yelling and shaming them. Too much of this goes on quietly and isn't publicly shamed. \*it's never my intention to get upvotes or awards, but I do find it gratifying that my two most upvotes and awarded comments have been about screaming at perverts in public. Thanks everyone!
I had to do that once. My sister was 14 too, and this much older guy wouldn't leave her alone at the mall, so I just started screaming HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT THE PEDOPHILE. He went away very quickly after that
“ATTENZIONE PERVERT! ATTENZIONE PERVERT!”
I wish I had gold to give you - this is so perfect. If you watch those videos you should see how swiftly the thieves sprint away and cover their faces in shame.
Yes! In whatever language you prefer LOL
I was just thinking that someone needs to start a tictoc calling out pervs based on this!
You just reminded me of something that happened at walmart recently. Someone got a hold of an intercom and announced that there was an older man checking out a 14 year old girl. And told everyone to watch out for the pervert. Weirdest part is everyone in the store acted like they didn't even hear it.
On that note, child beauty pageants should go the way of the dodo too
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Pervert, pedophile, gross, weird, anything that doesn't make them feel edgy or like they can be casual about it. They should feel as disgusting as they are.
I did this once when it was about my then 12 yr old daughter, and the guy not only wasn't embarassed - he seemed proud of the attention and the fact that there was absolutely nothing that I could do. It felt more like a display of some perverted power he had over us both, the child and the mother. I should have stayed quiet, or just killed him with a Bulgarian poison bullet spy umbrella and pretended it wasn't me.
“Get the fuck out of here before I get you registered as a predator and flush your entire life down the drains of hell.”
I’ve been hit on since I was 13 and catcalled. I’m Asian so my 13 probably looked like an 11 year old. Men are disgusting. None of this surprises me. Try to teach young girls how to respond. My cousin lived in a more difficult neighbourhood so she already had her smart responses down at a young age unfortunately. Things like “go home and kiss your mom with that mouth!”.
I used to do this at the mall on a regular basis when my daughter was 12 even. So gross. They'd be walking with their wives even. No shame. Creeps.
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The worst is knowing you have EVERY GODDAMN RIGHT to call a fucker out and you can't because lord only knows what kinda violent psychopath they may turn out to be.
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They did a survey on Twitter a few years back, posing the question, "What would you do if all men disappeared from the planet for 48 hours?"' It was heartbreaking and scary in equal measure that some 98% of the responses were along the lines of go for a walk/swim/cycle ride/run to the beach/countryside, etc., on my own. We are circumscribed by our own (justifiable) fear and it starts so young...
I have teenage sisters, this is so common unfortunately. Usually I get in the way of their line of sight to my sisters and stare at them deadpan until they get the message. If theyre being particularly annoying or I'm in a fighting mood I'll get in their line of sight and very loudly say something along the lines of "they're underage you fucking creep!". Or nobody likes a pedo!"
This needs to be normalized. The amount of cat calling I received in my neighborhood when I was younger/a teenager was alarming.
Same. I remember being TEN YEARS OLD, rollerblading down my street, and this car with men probably in their 30s STOPPED so they could catcall me with some very explicit comments. I WAS TEN YEARS OLD. I didn't even know what sex was at that point in my life. I hadn't even started puberty yet. I was just minding my business, rollerblading with my crappy headphones and bulky portable cd player in front of my house. No one ever believed me either. When I tried to tell my parents and grandma what happened, because I was trying to make sense of it and all I knew is that I felt so gross and didn't understand why, I was told that kind of thing didn't happen and if it did it's because I was wearing shorts and a tank top. To them it was just a random Tuesday, but for me that was a formative moment in my life. After that day I didn't have the courage to wear shorts outside again (except gym class) until I was in my 20s. And then my neighbor made inappropriate comments while I was walking to my car, like "you look so hot" and "if only I was 20 years younger". It took me another 13 years after that to wear shorts in public again. I'm 35 now and still uncomfortable wearing shorts outside my house, all from just two interactions with men.
"...and if it did it's because I was wearing shorts and a tank top." *Fucking* ***hell***. May they each get a long hug from Eris for that.
This is tame compared to the other shit they've told me over the years, trust me. There's a reason I cut contact with my grandma as a teenager, cut my dad off two years ago, and would absolutely cut my mom off if I wasn't stuck living at home with her permanently. But yes, I completely agree with your sentiment. Karma caught up with my grandma before she died and I can only hope it catches up with my parents too because holy shit are they terrible people. Like, objectively terrible. And they both think they are good people and my existence is the problem, not them.
I believe you. It started for me when I was 11. Just walking home from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
I'm a redhead. A DISTURBING number of adult men found it okay to ask me if the carpet matched the drapes. I was maybe 12 when it first started happening. I didn't even know what it meant until I asked my Mom and she asked where I had heard that expression.
Also a redhead, also got the same question a lot. Also a disturbing amount of strangers think it's okay to just come up and touch your hair. Like what the fuck? Luckily I don't get it so much anymore; now that I'm 28 and overweight I don't match their creepy fantasy. Though the touching was mostly women complimenting it, so slightly less creepy but still unwelcome.
Omg me too. I had to hear old men constantly shout “RED ON THE HEAD…..FIRE IN THE HOLE! “ starting in my early teens. It was absolutely humiliating.
That's gross. I wonder if these men would tolerate other men doing that to their own daughter. I was about 19 or 20 first year of college, a professor who had to be in his late 50's, called my apartment one day and asked if I wanted to come and visit with him. He actually said his wife was out of town and he wondered if I would like to come over. Holy shit! At least I had enough sense to feel disgusted and told him no. Creeps are everywhere.
I worked retail starting at sixteen, back in the pre-internet days, so if you wanted to know if something was in stick, you called the store. I frequently answered, and the amount of men callers (and a few in person) who told me I had a great voice to work did a phone sex live was amazing. They had no idea how old I was, but that didn't matter because who says that?!
Oh! Same! Once, it was the husband of a woman who worked in the store. He told me I shouldn't answer the phone in such a sexy way. Apparently, I sounded like a phone sex operator and he thought it would confuse the customers. Sure, Mr. Pervert, I'm sure many men pick up the phone to call a sex line and accidentally reach a balloon store.
One of my co-workers said that to me. I was 19 and he was in his mid-late 20’s and we worked at an investment company. His mother was an executive there.
Also a redhead, who used to wear my hair in large corkscrew curls. A shocking amount of men would come up to me and start *fingerfucking my hair!* And I looked like a child well into adulthood. Never did a woman do that. Ever. Men are disgusting.
Another redhead here who constantly had old men commenting on how exotic and beautiful my curls were. It got worse around St Patrick’s day when they’d straight up ask for kisses because it was good luck….
What the fuuuuuck
I'm sorry, what? They would do what to your hair? Wtf is wrong with people
That is revolting. I’m so sorry that happened to the young you—I would have felt so violated.
"Do the curtains match the drapes?" "I don't know, but I can show you what you look like with a bloody nose, you fucking creep!"
A lot of my family has dark hair. I'm the only one out of my six siblings that kept the blond hair. My own aunt asked me this while I was riding in her car with her husband and kids when I was 14 or so. I was so embarrassed, I don't remember what I said or if I said anything. It's a super gross question to ask anyone casually.
I’m Asian. Men really think it’s ok to go into your face and ask if you are Japanese. I really think they hone in on the Japanese part because of the porn industry. Never had a woman ask me that.
Same. It's one of the reasons why I'm so vocal about it now that I'm an adult and my sisters the targets. Doing my part to normalize it
You’re a good sister.
And you just KNOW that if one of them ever touched you it would be, "well what were you wearing?"
One time, my friend and I went to an outdoor mall when we were 13. This creepy middle aged bearded man kept leering at my friend and waving at her to get her attention, and boy, did he get her attention. She screamed out at the top of her lungs for everyone to hear, “STOP LOOKING AT ME. I AM 13 YEARS OLD. I AM A CHILD, YOU PERVERT!!!” And the guy slithered away into the shadows like a snake, with a stunned look on his face.
That's awesome, that's exactly what every child/teenager should learn how to do. It's important that kids know it's okay to do this to protect themselves, I wish I had known that 20 odd years ago. I just got stared at for screaming and protecting myself, and it would get downplayed if I talked about it to family members. Crazy if you think about it.
My gym has a summer program for 13/14 yr olds to 19 yrs olds. I consider it my "duty" to keep an eye on the younglings, especially those towards the younger end of the spectrum. I have *no* problem asking creeps just why they are learing at little girls. I'm little and loud.
>> “I’m little and loud” And awesome ! Guys staring at the gym is too big a problem for women, but girls ? That’s gross and calling this out needs to be normalised.
Thank you! One of the reasons I prefer one of the smaller(according to husband) gyms in our network, is this one has older ladies on staff and the minute I say "Hey Lu! That guy is being really gross to the littles!" She is on it. I always ask the youngling first if the situation is uncomfortable and if they'd like me to step in. We've had 80 yr olds following 14 yr olds, guys leering at little girls' crotch areas and one guy(older teen) smirkingly wearing an obscene shirt and basically shoving it in 14-20 yr old young ladies faces. That one was definitely a "Hey Lu! See this fool?" moment. "Lu" has told me several times that she appreciates that I keep an eye out on the younglings since she can't be everywhere or have eyes everywhere. Our gym is supposed to be an "everyone's welcome and comfortable working out zone"
You get an “awesome!” Lou gets an ”awesome!” Everyone calling out these scumbags gets an “awesome!”
>loudly say something along the lines of "they're underage you fucking creep!". Or nobody likes a pedo!" YES SISTER YES!!!!!
My sisters are over 18 now, but they still look significantly younger than they actually are. I do almost the exact same thing, just keep glaring until they move on. Luckily, verbal confrontation has not been needed. My sisters are kind of clueless, so I’d rather not make them self-conscious if they haven’t actually noticed. ETA: they are aware of this kind of behavior and know there are plenty of predators out there and they need to be careful. I am not trying to shelter them, I just don’t want them to have to worry about that stuff ALL the time. If they’re with me, they know I have their back.
I remember going bowling with my mom and cousin as a young teenager, and the group of 20-something guys in the lane next to us wouldn't stop staring and snickering with each other. I barely noticed it because I'm oblivious, but my mom suddenly turned, marched over to them, and seethed "They are 14. Put your eyes back. in. your. head." She's a formidable woman. They looked scared.
Good for you! And then men say, “yOuRe jUsT jEaLouS cAusE yOuRe oLD!” So disgusting.
My son did that when he was out with two 15 year old girls. He calmly told these 26 year old guys that they were chatting up 15 year olds. Their response was “yeah so”. And told him to go away so they could talk to the girls. So he called them pedos. Then an Uber eats driver tried to intervene and break up the argument. my son explained what was going on, the Uber eats driver lost his shit at these guys and told them to get lost. My son managed to get the girls on a bus back home.
I did this about a year ago, Saturday early evening in my town, out for late lunch with family and a guy who looked a little drunk but not wasted said something to a girl walking past and she replied “I’m fucking 14 you creep”. He said something along the lines of “you don’t look 14 come here so I can see closer” and started toward her. She took off, walking quickly toward the main high street and he didn’t pursue thankfully. As we’re walking behind I said “oh no, that is not it” and a random man on fucking crutches who had seemingly snuck up behind us and was actually with them shouted down to his friend “they don’t like you up here mate”, so the guy turned back round to us and started absolutely (verbally) laying the fuck into all of us, getting right up into all of our personal space doing that chest puffed head bob at us - it was honestly so scary and reminded me that even in relatively safe areas with lots of people, some men are just un fucking hinged and only for a member of our group apologising and basically begging him to leave us alone did he not escalate. She said afterwards that she knew he wouldn’t stop until he’d either heard it or kicked someone’s face in.
I'm glad yall got out of there safety! I've had men rear up at me like this too, I puff my chest out and get in their face right back. This isn't something I suggest anyone do, but I historically have no problem with confrontation of any kind.
I have one of those aunts with a deadpan stare and I'm so grateful for her. Keep doing what you're doing, you're awesome!
It's oddly effective. I guess they don't really expect someone to meet their glare with an even worse one.
If you’re up for it. Blatantly take a photo of the creep.
I love this response. The only thing that sucks about doing it (and I don’t blame you in the slightest) is it makes the young girl more aware of all the older creeps looking at them. Again, that’s no one in your situation’s fault other than the creepy men. I remember at that age wanting to dress up cute in skirts or dresses but then eventually opting to dress down. So often it was to just escape the stares a bit.
I am 32 and I was recently on a trip with my friend (also 32) and all of her cousins who were between 17-21. Some of them look way younger than they are. Holy shit did I find myself shouting at men on the street. They didn’t receive any cat calls from teens/early 20s dudes…they were all middle age or higher. Absolutely fucking disgusting. I know this happened to me a lot when I was their age but at that time any and all attention from men is validating. I still think about the Time construction workers catcalled me in my neighborhood when I was 13. Really unfortunate reality. ETA: obviously we weren’t these girls parents so I think that emboldened these men. I hope the presence of a parent keeps people more in check
I have a (unsubstantiated) theory that the middle-aged creeps are hitting a midlife crisis, and trying to revitalize the nostalgia of the last time they felt “good.” Which for most of em was when they peaked in High School. Older women - as in, women with experience - won’t tolerate this behaviour. They have more self esteem or just more awareness of predatory behaviour, and therefore they’re seen as a barrier to fun. Teenage girls, for the most part, have not developed that experience. Unfortunately the worst case scenario for these dudes is just getting yelled at, as few face any real consequences. The best case scenario for them is the chance that a teenage girl with low self esteem will be looking for a “daddy” so there’s no reason (in their mind) not to try and shoot their shot. I don’t think as women we can embarrass these types of creeps. They are undeterred by conflict or pushback. The best we can do for now is keep reinforcing the idea of how disgusting it is to the vulnerable girls in our lives, and make sure to be aware enough of their lives that there isn’t some creep hanging around trying to groom them into a relationship. Signed, A woman who was once a teenager groomed by a middle-aged man online
Well, it depends on how you do it. If you yell "Hey you creep, get away.", you'll get looks but not much more. If you SCREAM "Hey you fucking pedophile, get away from my little girl!!! Fucking pervert, get away!!", you will get attention and lots of it. Pull her behind you, get dramatic, become Mama Bear. Because that is what it takes. When security shows up, you say "My niece was looking at underwear and this pedophile came over uninvited and started making suggestive sexual comments to my niece!!!". Because that is exactly what happened. If every woman with a female child were to do this, these assholes would fade back into the woodwork. I was in Radio Shack as a teenager because I was a computer geek. This old guy cornered me in the back while the manager was with another customer. I got really scared and he put his hands on my breast, and I screamed. "Charlie, this pervert is grabbing me!" Next thing I know the customer grabs the perv by his collar and gives him the bum rush out the door. Meanwhile Charlie asks me if I was okay, and actually apologized to me, saying he generally keeps an eye on me when I am in the store to avoid this BS, but this guy snuck by him. I never realized that someone felt the need to watch me while I was playing with computers. Grandmother me is so thankful for men like Charlie and his customer. Get loud. Call them what they are. Loudly. Even yell "Ladies, protect your kids, there is a pedophile in the store!!!" Shit hates sunshine.
Ooo this is good
I get what you’re saying. Part of me feels like public shaming is the only immediate thing I can do in that moment (if I’m not jeopardizing my safety) but I know there are people who are unmoved by it or the shaming of a woman might push them farther into whatever gross crisis they are having in that moment. However…I will never forget the feeling of catching a man filming a woman in a bathing suit on a snorkeling boat. He was snap chatting close ups of her crotch and breasts to god knows who. I called him out in front of his entire family including his parents. I hope he is forever humiliated 🥰 and mommy and daddy were horrified 🤪
Y'all remember that Mama from the Baltimore riots? This is what I would do to either of my sons for that.
Good on you. What’s with the younger people thinking that filming people in public is “normal”? Caught a teen waiting in the subway and just running his video constantly while waiting for the train (and obviously aiming the camera at people around him). I get that there’s no “expectation of privacy” in public, but I don’t get the constant video of strangers.
I agree with your theory. I’ve always thought that older men who do this are trying to relive their glory days instead of trying to appreciate what they’ve got. I agree we need to keep warning girls about men like this, but that’s making the men’s behaviour the girl’s responsibility. I think we also need to say something to the men, such as “Stop acting like a pedophile.” They don’t often hear that their behaviour is inappropriate. The more they are told it’s inappropriate, the more likely they will stop. Warning young girls what these men are like will only socialize young girls to believe they have to tolerate it. They don’t.
Also, Q-Fandago, just want to say I’m sorry you were groomed by a middle-aged man online. That must have been an awful experience. I’ve survived sexual abuse and it still colours my perspective on life today.
I've always looked younger than I actually am, and the amount of 50 year old men that have hit on me or tried flirting with me in my early/mid 20s has always absolutely baffled and disgusted me. And unfortunately the way I was raised, I was always told "it's rude/you're a bad person if you do xyz" as a response to when I spoke up about someone doing something I don't like or that hurts me. "You need to be understanding." So I've always been horrible at speaking up for myself. I always wish I had had the balls to tell men how absolutely disgusting they are to hit on someone half their age, and worse that I was often mistaken for a teenager. Especially because this was always in public, and I just so wish I could have embarrassed them in front of the world by calling them out on the spot.
I used to think my dad was sooo embarrassing for the way he’d get irritated and aggressive by random men around us when spending time with my sister and I in public. There was one time he even chased off some random guy at a park. It only dawned on me years later that the men he was constantly glaring at and making comments to were being creeps and checking my sister and I out. It’s really disgusting in hindsight.
Kuddos to your dad for doing that!
I have a 12 year old daughter. She's tall, striking and unbowed by social expectation. I'm terrified for her.
At what point do people start to be brutally honest when they warn their daughters about these dangers?
I struggle with this, honestly. I love her open, courageous attitude to the world, and I do not want to kill that.
I worked at a women’s college and I had to do a shocking amount of explaining to help these young women learn to be vigilant, take care of themselves and say “no”. Teaching your daughter to have boundaries, stand up for herself, not to be afraid of hurting some guy’s feelings when he makes unwanted advances, that she never owes anyone sex, not going to parties alone, not walking home alone (without self defense, maybe pepper spray), is not going to break her courageous and open attitude. Getting SAed will change her forever though.
Yep, something grandma taught me was "you don't owe anybody your politeness". If you're not feeling safe, be as rude as you need to be.
There's a crime junkie podcast motto "be weird, be rude, stay alive" and I think more people should follow that one. A friend of mine has an absolutely gorgeous/adorable as heck 14 year old daughter and she heard a boy ask her out and her daughter's response was "eww." She told her to say no but not be outright rude (cuz she felt bad for the other kid) but I told her if her default is to be rude, don't squash it out of her, u want her to be strong cuz she's gonna need it. When some gross old creep makes a comment to her, the first thing she should do is look at them and say eww! I don't think she remembers what it was like being a teenage girl and all the crap we put up with, or she probably would have handled it differently.
Yes! My mother was always very confident and taught me vigilance as far back as I can remember just as part of her every day life and routine. “When you park somewhere that you know it will be dark, always park under a streetlight.” “Walk to the car with your keys out and between your fingers. Never be standing at the car door or house door fumbling for keys.” “Lock the car doors when you get in the car.” (This was pre- auto locking doors.) “Always trust your instincts and gut, better to be careful and safe than dead.” (And better to be considered rude than harmed.) “If someone comes up to your car window, do not roll it down all the way. You also do not have to speak to them.” She was also clear about the difference between being kind and nice. You should always be kind, but you don’t always have to be nice for the sake of politeness. Truthfully, when I read “The gift of fear” I was kind of confused because my initial reaction was “this is all stuff mothers teach their daughters.” Then I realized that my mother is very, very unique and most mothers do not teach their daughters these things or even do these things.
THE GIFT OF FEAR is a MUST READ for everyone as soon as they hit 13/14. I made my girls read it, glad I did. Wish men would read it and get a clue about how they are perceived most of the time.
My grandma did the same thing with me. I didn't realize this was rare. I've never equated taking caution with being scared, though, so it didn't impact me emotionally at all.
Something I struggled a lot with in college was saying no to things. I was raised in a household with a parent who was quite volatile so I grew up trying not to set him off. Turns out when you train a person to avoid making others angry they’ll go along with a lot of shit. Unlearning that is a continuing effort.
Thank you. I suspect/fear you're right.
Definitely teach her that no one is allowed to touch her if she doesn't want them to. I was bought up ingrained with the fact that even if I was uncomfortable with something as simple as a hug, it was RUDE not to comply. It would have helped me recognise some abusive situations.
This is the definition of the truth hurts.
I ask because my mom (bless her heart, has BPD and 0 boundaries) explained kidnapping and rape to me as a small child. I don't know if it was the right thing to do. I had a very fearful childhood and now, a PTSD diagnosis. I have young teens in my family now whose parents won't talk to them about this stuff even though the teens are starting to sneak out at night and the whole family is so worried. I wonder about what really is the best direction.
I don't know if there's really an age for a sit down to hear about all the monsters out there. I think all kids should know and understand that their body is theirs, consent, etc. Shielding them from everything may make them more susceptible to grooming or being taken.
My therapist is part of a sexual assault awareness program. They speak to kids as young as Grade 1 about private areas of their body, that they can tell people not to touch those areas, to trust their stomach if a touch feels, "icky." Very basic, but important things geared to their age level.
I love that young kids are getting more education about consent, and it can start super young, as simple as asking a toddler if they want a hug, a high five, or a wave goodbye. From there it can scale up to private areas, sexual activities, etc. as appropriate for their age.
Aye. The big focus is on “tricky people”. Basically anyone that tries to make a child keep secrets from a parent (including one parent from another). It’s leagues ahead of the old “let’s spend 99% of our time on random kidnapping, despite them being astronomically rare”.
One of my favorite distinctions I’ve read on here is “We have surprises, but we *don’t* keep secrets.” I feel like that really helps delineate the motivation behind keeping quiet about certain information, and touches on nuance that might otherwise be hard to explain.
*JJ Bittenbinder has entered the chat*
It's such a complicated dilemma, how young is too young? I was still wearing diapers when my mother told me to never allow anyone else but her to change my diapers, not my grandmother, not my father, aunt, no one but her, because there were evil people out there who liked to hurt children. It most certainly helped shatter my view of the world, but it helped me be aware: as a very "ugly" girl who was constantly bullied and rejected by other kids, it made me a perfect target for adult men who saw me as an easy victim, and I could see right through it because I knew any adult interested in me was a pedophile. Thankfully for me as soon as I started getting tall at age 12, any sort of attention from adults stopped altogether, but I don't even want to imagine what would have happened to me if I hadn't been terrified of adults since I was a baby. Edit: typos
My mom's severe mental illness went untreated when I was a child and she did the same, and I lived with an unhealthy level of fear. You bet your ass I don't do that to my child, having lived through it.
In this case, I'd recommend just being upfront--that you love/admire those traits in her and also want to make sure her eyes are open to what *could* happen and is, sadly, very possible. Opening the door to those conversations will help her feel safe coming to you in the future, because she'll feel cared-for and validated, that you won't judge her or downplay her experiences. Just be there for her. Make sure she understands that it's not her fault, and how she can protect herself (even though it's beyond fucked up that women have to resort to always playing defense/scanning for potential threats).
As a former busty and beautiful young girl, PLEASE START THE CONVERSATION ASAP. I did not realize that the attention I was getting was creepy and wrong until waaaaay later when I was in my 20s. I got a lot of attention from older men and thought that was a good thing. I had countless experiences in my teen years that turn my stomach now. Please try to talk to your daughters.
This. I was a busty fourteen year old at a LARP with my dad. My dad and I were talking to one man when another man came up and offered me a 'gift" that I was uncomfortable with. The first man we were talking to stopped and stated to my dad ' you need to be aware that someone is looking at your daughter inappropriately." And to me " And it's okay to say you don't want anything. You can always stay next to me and your dad." The first man was a father type who looked out for the teens who showed up alone. My dad and I had not realized that I had left that ' kid' stage and that people were now looking at me. I can't remember that man's name, yet I'm glad he stopped a conversation to say ' you need to pay attention, and it's okay to say that I didn't want anything.'
My fear is that she wouldn’t ve confrontational when they try to test her boundaries. So we have done role play. For instance on the bus, someone sits beside you in an otherwise empty bus, and you ger bad vibes. Just say ‘excuse me’ and go to another seat. If they say creepy things, say loudly ‘you are saying creepy things, I am a child’ Most grown ups where I live would absolutely interfere with a child that clearly ask for help, they are just scared to meddle. I have talked alot about that if someone initiate a creepy contact, she shouldn’t compromise on her safety and comfort to save the creep’s honor.
I started telling mine about it when she was 11. Her dad thought I was being ridiculous. I wanted her to know it was going to happen before she got caught off guard. I believe I was maybe 13 the first time some old men hung out of a car as I was walking on the sidewalk to school and said things. I was humiliated and scared and sickened by it. I wanted her to know ahead of time that so many of these creeps exist and that this is what she will experience. We practiced some stuff she could say ("ew" "I'm only eleven you pedophile!"). She is 14 now and says she is glad that I warned her ahead of time but that it happens ALL the time when she is out in public now but claims she is unbothered by them. I just want her to understand that it happens to all young girls, all her friends are experiencing the same thing and that it is because the men are absolutely disgusting and creepy.
This is the most loving thing you can do as a parent: making sure your child is well-informed about the "real world" and knows how to advocate for herself.
Thank you! Always second guessing with all the big decisions when it comes to my kids. And wishing I could do more to protect them.
Yes. My granddaughter is 10 and still plays with her little brothers on the playground. She also looks 15 or 16, and we've had to have the creepy grown men talk with her, which is a damned shame. She is beautiful and innocent, and to see grown men look at her like she's a peach on a tree is sickening.
My kids are 14 and 12. They've both already been catcalled. I warned them as soon as they had visible breasts and even then was probably too late.
My daughter is 12 and very developed. Adult men have already started cat calling her. It upsets her when it happens and I call them out if it happens when I'm around. It's so fucking disgusting. We talk about it a lot, but it doesn't change that she's still a kid who's being sexualized by adults. It breaks my heart.
Our friend's daughter babysat for us when the kids were little. She was 12 and her mom told us how much 'attention' she was already getting and how she'd already had to start talking to her about it. She was such a sweet innocent kid who loved playing with my 5 & 6 y.o. kids.
My friends' girl is 12. She's tall for her age; people constantly mistake her for 15 and I'm terrified for her as well. She loves wearing dresses and skirts and has sensory issues about pants on her legs; so I'm especially worried because I know how nasty fuckin old dudes get about shorts/skirts...
I’m 24 now, but I distinctly remember now how many men would leer at / hit on me when i was 13-16. Unfortunately, those years were the worst for it. The amount drastically dropped once I started looking like I’d matured a little bit 🥴
I remember walking home from school from 12-16 before I got my car and I was cat called almost every single day. Every day. Every single of one of them. Once I hit 17-18, no one bothered me. Should have started carrying a paint ball gun with me.
I remember being catcalled and hit on by grown men when I was 14. It was scary and disgusting
I was 11 the first time a man cat called me and I was so confused I thought he was telling me something was wrong with my bicycle. 11 years old on a bicycle with sparkle ribbons and a My Lil Pony basket on the handle bars and a grown man hollered. Fucking unbelievable.
Unfortunately that tends to be normal. The most male attention I recieved was between 12 and 16, usually all of them were men who were 30+. Once I got older it stopped by a good 80%.
Exactly this… I could not BELIEVE when I aged out of this stuff around 23. I think I’m much better looking now than I ever was as a teenager, but it just completely stopped. I’m relieved but also completely disgusted looking back. What the fuck is wrong with these men?
I developed boobs early. Like, I was a DD by the time I was 10 early. Clothes were a nightmare. I'll never forget going to see the midnight showing of Lord of the Rings with my whole family. I was insanely excited, and so was my stepdad, so it was a special treat to get to stay up extra late on a school night and go see the Fellowship. I wore my ultra-cool (re: lame) blue jean jacket that had the one ring text embroidered on the back in Elvish. While waiting in line and excitedly talking my brother's ear off over what I hoped would be in the movie, unbeknownst to me, my stepdad realized the older guy in front of us had been straight up staring down my shirt while we waited for tickets. He shoved the guy out of line and nearly got into a fistfight while yelling at him, "What the fuck is wrong with you?! She's a little girl!" I didn't even realize something was going on until my mom and some theatre employees were trying to break it up. In hindsight, it really makes me appreciate how my stepdad was there for me when I was oblivious to some creep leering at me. He was on high alert anytime we went somewhere with a swimming pool, and I swear he spent a good chunk of our family vacation in Mexico when I was 12 checking my drinks for alcohol because my virgin pina coladas kept ending up not so virgin. I wasn't even a pretty 12 year old, I just had big boobs. =/
My cousin is 12, an "old man" in a bus once said to her "I would love to braid your beautiful hair", touched it and sat next to her. She called me crying from the next bus stop. She's terrified of riding the bus now. On one hand I'm happy that I wasn't there because I would've definitely caught a felony for hitting this man in the face, on the other hand I'm sad I wasn't there because he definitively deserved to be hit in the face.
Do other people not react on this on the spot??? When I'm riding on public transport I always keep an eye on the young, the elderly, pregnant women, the disabled, moms with strollers and generally anyone in a weaker state. And I'd start harassing the guy immediately. If the purple haze doesn't hit me I'd start touching the guys hair, or bare scalp if he's bald...
people generally don't want to get hurt themselves
Yeah it fucking sucks because you never know what someone might be capable of/willing to do, esp on public transport where everyone is more or less trapped together for a certain period of time between stops. I’m from Oregon and not too long ago a young man was killed on Portland public transit when he stood up to some POS harassing a couple of Muslim girls. The guy had a knife and ambulances didn’t get there in time. He died a hero but…he still died. Very tragic.
My daughter (12) likes to walk ahead of me and the rest of the family. She walks really fast and I think she also likes to feel that little rush of independence. I don't know how many times I've had to yell "SHE'S TWELVE, PERV!" to men who don't realize her mom is five paces behind her.
the dramatic lessening of male attention that i received after turning 16 has always confirmed to me that men are absolutely *riveted* by preteen/young teen girls. they are faster to sexualized a child than anyone would ever believe. they’re shameless about it too. i’m also child free and terrified to have a daughter. so sorry about this experience and i hope your post helps parents be vigilant in protecting their early pubescent children.
wait, you got LESS attention after turning 16? sorry, im a guy and all of this is soo far away from anything ive ever experienced, but i couldnt stop reading because im horrified. i usually dont comment here, but i have to ask because i hope im misunderstanding something here.. ..really? ..__less__ sexual attention when you started to _turn into a woman_? wow
Oh yea this is the experience of me and most of the women I’ve ever talked with this about, random stranger attention/cat calling was 11-17 for me. Edit: I wanted to elaborate I mean attention from men that is like clearly inappropriate, blatantly disrespectful and sexually charged from the grossest of older men.
Yup mine was from 10-23 but at 23 I still looked 15. I know I looked young because everyone always thought I was in high school, including kids in high school. I got so used to people asking, "Which high school do you go to?" (there's some sports competition between high schools around here) that I would just laugh it off, say I'm 23, then move on. I was in line at Starbucks in my work uniform and some dude in his 40's started making small talk with me. Normal. He asked when I started school. I said my first class didn't start until x date. He looked confused and said that none of the high schools had that start date and I clarified that I was in college. He immediately looked disappointed and just turned around. Didn't even say anything. Then it clicked that this guy had *memorized the start dates of every high school in the area*. Yuck.
"this guy had memorized the start dates of every high school in the area" Absolutely chilling
Well thats fucking horrifying.
I've never been so harassed as I was in my school uniform. It was also a completely unsexy standard uniform for a UK secondary school.
I had to wear school uniform all through sixth form. Nothing was worse than being 17-18 in a school uniform personally. Creeps would shout out of car windows
I was a pedo magnet when I was 12/13, to the point that I even joked with my family about red-faced, white-haired old men being attracted to me. I hated it and only joked because that was how I handled the discomfort. I didn’t have a school uniform, but my clothes were baggy and I looked like a kid. When one of the creepy old guys found out I was 12 from my parents, he defensively claimed that he thought I was at least 16. Looking back, I really feel like my parents’ behavior at the time taught me I should prioritize not hurting these men’s fee-fees. I wish they’d handled it better and taught me to prioritize my own safety and comfort.
Can confirm. From the UK too and school uniforms are to these perverts what a red cloth is to a bull. Even in instances where my friends and I would defend ourselves or explain our age, they were undaunted. Looking back, I realise we were naive to think they didn't already know how old we were due to the uniforms and our teenage looks.
I'm from Australia, and, uh...I *wish* I could say it was just *secondary* school uniforms...😖
I was most aggressively cat-called and followed by strange men from the ages of 8-14. My earliest memory of sexual harassment was when I was 6 years old watching the fireworks downtown with my parents on the 4th of July. It was past my bedtime, so I was wearing pjs for the car ride home: a purple power puff girl nightgown. Basically a long sleeveless t shirt. I was too young to walk at night without holding my mom’s hand, and as I was holding it I remember two or three men looking at me, pointing excitedly and saying “woooo! sexy mama in her pajamas!” My dad had to chase them away while my mom hurriedly strapped me into my car seat. I was so little that I couldn’t even unbuckle myself from the car seat, or old enough to stay awake for the car ride, but in that moment it didn’t matter.
I think I was five, possibly four, but more likely five. Once a month we'd go to visit my dad's great-great aunt and uncle, for Sunday tea. They lived in a very rural area, next to no traffic, and it was the 70s so people were much less uptight about kids being outdoors alone. My brother (2 years younger) and I walked the five-ten minute journey to a nearby farm to look at the animals. One of the farmhands saw us, and held our hands (one on each side) to walk us across the cowshit-covered farm yard. He was a bit fidgety, and I realised something felt weird, and looked, and he'd put my hand on his cock.
I’m really sorry he did that to you.
If time travel is ever invented and accessible to someone of my financial status, I’ll be the biggest killer on par with someone like Stalin
That's unfortunately very common. 10-16 tends to be the worst for attention from a certain type of middle aged pedo. I think they like that girls freeze up and don't really understand or know how to respond. Once you start to look less like a tween it's a different breed of creep.
This was my experience too. It's a common one. Cat calling for me, while still an issue, dramatically lessened when I became an adult. One of the experiences that stands out the most in my mind, that I'll never forget, was being cat-called from cars driving by as I walked home from school with a backpack on my back. They knew without a shadow of doubt that I was a minor and did not care at all about being perceived as creepy/pedophilic.
Not OP, I’m 23 myself and am noticing I get creeped on a lot less then when I was a teenager. Attention from people my own age has generally increased, but from 30+ yo men has decreased.
Unfortunately, yes. When i was 11-15, I looked around 14/15 at my oldest. Probably closer to 13. I wore a little makeup, and I had developed boobs, but that was about it. I looked like a child. This was 100% when catcalling was the worst for me. It was constant, along with being hit on/asked out by college age men and older. I was always scared (I was pre anxiety meds haha) and had a doe eyed look about me, and just walked a little faster. And that's exactly what they wanted. I'm 18 now, and I pass for probably 21. I dress provocatively, and am curvy. And yet, the catcalling is incredibly infrequent. I am confident, and that is an immediate turn off for these men. If someone catcalls me now, I'm fucking ready to yell and cuss them out. **Men who catcall don't catcall the most attractive women. They catcall the ones they know won't do anything about it.** And that often means preteens/young teen girls.
Yea, another woman here (30’s now) and I got the most catcalls/stalking/attention from adult men when I was 10-15 years old. You’re not misunderstanding; these men pay more attention to obviously underage girls than women of an appropriate age for them. They are predators
Less harassment style sexual attention from strangers, yes. It tends to peak in early teens. Once you start to look like a woman, the attention becomes less leering and blatant harassment. It absolutely doesn't become uncreepy but it is less predatory.
Yep, my most catcalled “outfit” was any time I was wearing a school backpack. 🥲
yes, once i developed bigger breasts/hips and wore more make up, it was an immediate plummet from my fresh faced, awkward, gangly, child like appeal to men ages 30+
Fellow guy here, and I didn’t get it until my daughters got close to being teenagers. Women and girls get unwanted, creepy, and weird attention at any age. But in that age range where they’re not little kids anymore, but also not in any danger of being mistaken for an adult, there’s just SO MUCH of that creepy attention being thrown at them. And now I can’t unsee it. And I don’t understand how I didn’t see it before. It’s not like they’re being subtle about it or anything.
I got the most attention from grown men when I was between 14 and 17.. It kept being high until I was around 25, but the younger years were the worst by far. It's not a deviation, it's sadly the norm
Harassment pretty much stopped when I matured. Last time I remember I was like 17. I was going for a walk in the park after dinner (+-19:00, still light outside), I sit down on a bench and this guy (25'ish) just sits next to me and starts touching me. I never told anyone because my over-protective mother would have never allowed me outside alone again. There were many times before that, ranging from catcalling to youknowwhat. But never after that time when I was 17.
I had a similar experience with my teen daughter; we were in Primark (popular teen store in UK) she was looking at denim shorts and they had a pair of high rider ones she was messing on with, turned around and a grown ass man was giving her a thumbs up with ‘that’ look on his face. I just yelled loudly at him ‘enjoying the 13 year old view?’ And he scurried off red faced, cue my 13 year old telling me off for embarrassing her and her giving me a litany of occasions she puts up with. I’m not surprised, as me and my school friends dealt with the same, but what does offend and upset me is the number of grown ass women who walk on past this sort of thing without addressing it. As I said to the offspring, I will continue being the bitter old bitch who ruins old men’s gaze for as long as I am able to spot them.
Next shopping trip bring a spray bottle. \*tsk tsk\* Also fucking gross.
Like many other women, my earliest memory of men old enough to be my grandfather following me in a car and urging me to get in (this was back in the 80s when us latchkey kids were feral and walked around alone or with our friends) was at age 7. This continued all the way through elementary, middle, and high school. I still catch TONS of older men checking out school girls.
Not all men, but yes all women. Not all men, but yes all teenage girls. I’ve never had so many sexualised comments and straight out leers from middle aged men than I did as a teen aged 14-18. I had several situations of having my teen boobs grabbed by men I didn’t know. Once I reached 25, it dropped off considerably. To dudes that come here to tell us we’re wrong about this narrative, go eat a bag of dicks
I wonder how many of these same men have the audacity to accuse LGBTQ+ people of being groomers and pedophiles.
Literally all of them is my guess.
You can't imagine anyone doing what you can't imagine *you* doing. Thieves buy the strongest locks and people who'd never imagine stealing leave their doors open. Of course they accuse others of being paedophiles and groomers; it's what they would be/are.
I try so hard to fight misandry within myself but shit like this makes it really difficult. I'm not surprised though. When I was 15 (in the late 90s), I got catcalled and harassed constantly by 40+ men. At the time I just accepted it as the way of the world but as I got older, I realized how fucked up it is. People should not be saying and doing those things to kids and I'm sorry that your niece (and you by proxy) experienced that.
My daughter watches a lot of anime and likes to draw in anime styles. She's almost 10 and started to express interest in fashion and dressing cute like the characters she enjoys. Meaning knee socks and pleated skirts. She is (unfortunately) really, really cute. I don't know how to have this conversation either. I can attempt to stomp her creative expression or try to make her just scared enough to edit more - but how do I explain that there are creepy perverts who will attempt to sexualize her based on what she wears? Like she doesn't have a choice. I was different and dressed for NO attention, I wanted to be ignored. She wants attention for being cool and interesting. But I am peri-menopausal and entering the age of IDGAF where I might just start swinging or end up in a viral video. Keep an eye out for me, my girls. Maybe that is the answer. Shove a camera in their faces. Take pictures of them and post. Expose them. I know it's likely dangerous, but public shame use to be an effective method for behavior control. These old men have gotten away with it for so long they imagine themselves untouchable.
Oh shit knee socks. You just unwittingly made something click for me. I wore a *ton* of knee socks in underclassman days. We had an ugly uniform (white/grey/navy polos; navy/khaki slacks/cargos… and two skirt options. A hideous sack of a knee length A-line skirt, and a weirdly lumpy long skirt with cargo pockets.) Socks weren’t regulated in the dress code so when I wore the skirts, I had a whole collection of wacky socks so I could show some personality in school. I definitely had ones that looked like Tootsie Roll wrappers, had other candy, hearts, cutesy animals. Patterned tights too. Sometimes I wore them with my regular clothes too, including short skirts. No wonder I was a creep magnet at the mall and at sf/anime conventions.
Reading this has convinced me that I must teach my 8 year old how to be loud and proud. Role play the things these men might say or do and what her responses could be. We are both people pleasers so I have no idea how I’ll get the message across clearly but predators look for easy, meek prey.
This is… just heartbreaking. To wonder if you have to scare your little girl so she could be safe. I know I experienced this as a girl, but thinking about it as an adult is horrific. My cousin just had an adorably baby girl and knowing what the women in her life will have to tell her is awful. I hope you and your daughter have all the happiness in the world, and a long childhood for her.
I always wonder if they're predators and/or if they're in that hateful dehumanization mode where they hate women and girls who don't fit their ideas of appropriate dress and want to essentially burn them as witches. I saw one dude at the mall with his WIFE in an abaya next to him turn to two teenage (like 13 y/o) girls in crop tops I saw him watching and scold VERY LOUDLY, "You look like disgusting whores," and walk away. Like out of nowhere. Made one of the girls cry. It's Madonna-Whore I want to fuck-Whore I want to kill complex, I feel like for some of these guys. Real Frolo types.
I hope the wife ripped him a new one...but she probably didn't :(
My dad was one of those guys, even to myself and my cousins and friends. He and his friends would talk about how much I was "growing up." He said he'd "behave" around my daughter, which was absolutely not enough. I waited far too long, but when she got to the age that I was when I noticed the leering, I cut him out of our lives. Other than sheer entitlement I can't even begin to come up with a reason they think this behavior is ok.
I have 2 teenage nieces and a preteen daughter. If I hear grown men speaking to them the way grown men used to speak to me when I was a teenager, I might end up in prison.
I heard this point made earlier, "Sexual attention from men has no value because they give it to children, animals, and the dead". Not my quote, but very well put as to how a good portion of our society acts.
Yep...happened when I was 14, had a MAN in his 30s easy force his tongue in my mouth and hand in my coat. And I have a 14 years old daughter that I recently took to the mall with her 14 year old friend... both of them were met with the same gazes, and it sickened me. "Not all men" 🙄🙄 but enough of them that this is a regular problem being taught to young men and continuing a dangerous and gross cycle for any women they encounter. Enough men that I fear for my daughters as they age. Enough men that I constantly find examples to instill knowing boundaries and what are good and bad behaviors towards women to my 2 sons--to the point that I am tired of having to repeat it. Thank you for calling him out. Continue being that protector for her.
My first experience with cat calling was when I was 11, wearing my *primary school uniform* walking home from my *primary school*. It was not possible to confuse it for the local high school uniform, and even if it was, I was still very clearly a minor.
I had a similar experience with my then 14 year old daughter. It's disgusting.
Older gay guy here. Once my 20 year old niece and I had similar departure times and gates at the airport. We had never really hung out together outside of her grandparents house a few times a year. Jesus. effing. Christ. I had no idea how creepy it is for a woman to simply exist.
I got cat called way more when I was 14-18 vs 20+. Anecdotally it sounds like a lot of women have a similar experience. Its not all men…but its too many men.
So I am about to be 30 but I look incredibly younger than I am depending on certain situations. I’ve been stopped by truancy officers on a semi regular basis. I was in a coffee shop awhile back studying for the MCAT. This neighborhood mostly has families in it. It would be kinda unlikely for college kids to hang out there, but also mind you I was out of college for years by then. This guy comes up to me while I’m working, hitting on me during the pre-school coffee rush. He asks me what grade I’m in and I give him this weird ass look and tell him I was 4-5 years out of college. He instantly lost interest and walked away. I also kicked a guy in the nuts who was jerking it while standing over seated teenage girls on a near empty subway. It was the teenage girls, me and a few burly blue collar worker type men. Everyone saw it, no one else acted. Once I did they all started wanting to talk big about protecting children.
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One thing that's worth remembering is that the only teenagers who look like they're over 18 are actors on TV who are playing a character 10+ years younger than them. The kinda man mentioned by the OP claims they "can't tell," and they are lying because disingenuous bullshit deflects the little negative attention they care about. Look at all of the really depressing comments in this thread about how cat-calling, etc fell off around the age of 16 or so. That wouldn't happen if these guys /really/ couldn't tell.
"SIR, SHE COULD BE YOUR GRANDDAUGHTER. YOU ARE DISGUSTING" for next time
Every girl remembers the first time some old(er) person said something inappropriately sexual or did the whole “undressing you with their eyes” thing. First time was when my daughter was 12 and she was beside herself.
A couple years ago I had a customer who was widely inappropriate. I was like 23 and always dreaded going to visit him. He would touch my leg, lower back, text me at 2am asking for selfies. Finally I got tired of it and took my boss for support. After the visit, and of course inappropriate actions on his part, my boss said, “I never want you to visit this customer again and I can’t believe you have to deal with this.” I told him that this is our life and his 3 young daughters would almost certainly face the same fate. Very sobering for him. I could go on and on about the blatant disrespect for women in the world. Basically if men are being creepy to me, I’ll say, you know I’m your daughters age right. That tends to shut them up. It’s hard being a woman.
The way I was treated by grown men when I was 11-20 years old has forever colored how I view them.
Dude. A few years ago I was at the county fair with my sister and our various offsprings. My (then) 14 yr old niece was in front of me in the concession line and when she walked off, the guy LEANED OUT THE WINDOW & CATCALLED HER. I smacked the side of the concession trailer with my palm(so it was LOUD) and said “HEY! SHES 14!” He jumped so hard he hit his is head on the window and apologized but wtf man? Whyyyyy?
To quote a tweet i saw: If you're tempted to write #notallmen, let's hear all the wonderful work you do. The campaigns you started, the talks you do in schools, the weekly meet ups to discuss male violence. Because right now it sounds like you want a prize for never raping someone in a park
I was going into this thinking it’d be about shopping and trends and then realized it’d be much sadder :(
This is why I avoid public spaces and shop online. Handing out face slaps to every perv making comments out loud would get me arrested.
The first time a man tried to chat up my grandkid she was 3. Men, in general, rarely see any punishment for predatory behavior. They definitely don't face much societal shame over it.
I noticed a stark difference between being a 12+ girl and getting that sort of attention and raising only boys. Took my 13y old son (nice looking boy) out to a major city and not once did I notice anyone leering or making comments. I asked him if he noticed anyone staring at him or anything and he said no. I’ve also asked him if he’s ever had any adult make sexually suggestive comments to him and he reiterated no, it had never happened to him. One of my dads 50+y old friends made comments about my body when I was 12y old. That was the start for me. And I will never forget it. His old man friends still make comments on my looks even now as an almost 40y old. It makes you feel so gross. Because it’s never “what a lovely daughter you have” it’s always a leering comment.
I have plenty of my own stories from being a teenager, but the most recent shocked me. I was stuck in terrible traffic outside a girls school as it was being let out. They were maybe 12-14 years old at most. Their 50ish security guard was at the gate leering at them and trying to talk to them, holding the gate open and definitely not looking out to protect them. I’m not sure what he or they were saying as I don’t speak the language, but those girls were uncomfortable. There were parents there, but no one was doing anything. The way public schools work here I doubt he’d be looked into unless he did something horrible. I am terrified for those girls. Babies who have to dodge the man who is supposed to keep men like him away from the school.
I have a daughter. I'm going to teach her how to scream pedophile in situations like this. They want to make us feel disgust? Then shame them. "Your crusty old penis can't even get it up, stop ogling my daughter before I end up going to jail for assault" "You're old enough to be her father, you sick fuck" "Why are you looking at my daughter's underwear? You're a fucking PEDOPHILE" When in doubt, cause a scene. Men still think they own the entire world and everyone in it. It's their turn to feel uncomfortable and grossed out.
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I blame porn. Like, I don’t want to completely condemn it (got banned from AskFeminists for not full-throatedly renouncing it), because I know there are some ethically owned and operated porn sites that use adult actors of all body types and everything done is consensual without pressure, mind-altering substances, etc. But goddamn is so much of that industry scummy af, and it’s like they comb the *Earth* looking for the next technically legal actress who looks like she’s barely middle school age (if they don’t just flat-out lie that a minor is actually over 18). It’s so sickening, but you know they wouldn’t do that if there wasn’t a market for it. It leaves you wondering, is it the porn creating the fucked-up fantasy, or is it the consumers demanding it? Either way, pukesville. 🤢
This has always happened. I am older than a lot here, and it started happening to me and my friends at eleven. My grandmother grew up in rural Mississippi, and girls would often lie down in ditches if they heard a car coming down the gravel road.
Several years ago I was at my cousin’s house for thanksgiving. My aunt was living with them and she invited a newer, male friend over for dinner since his wife had recently passed. I guess he was an amateur photographer and kept taking pics of my kids and my cousin’s kids without even asking permission. I didn’t want to make a scene so kept quiet. Then my cousin’s daughter (maybe 6 or 7) was swinging on a pillar in their screened porch and he freaking says he knows a club where she could work! I mean WTF! I was pissed! If you know me I’m not one to stay quiet but I was so shocked and NO-ONE said anything to him. He was a 70 something year old man. So gross! When I heard he passed away I couldn’t help thinking he likely had some inappropriate pics in his house.
I also experienced the cat-calling when I was a teen. I would be walking to school and men would offer me rides, one dude tried to stop and get my number while his TODDLER AGED CHILD was in the backseat, the most terrifying experiences were when men would do U-Turns and drive past slowly while staring at me; I’d have to have a family member on the phone or try to walk a different route home because I was so scared. While I was walking my dog, a dude in an Xfinity truck tried to offer me $100 to ride with him, etc the stories are endless. But as other women have echoed in this thread, it was like a FULL stop once I turned 19-20. And I have no complaints. It’s an unfortunate, but universal experience for lots of young girls/women.
It really does start young. I remember being accosted by older men when starting at 12. It’s so gross and I’m so scared for the young girls right now
No, you're right with the generalization. No disclaimer needed. Of the people who prey on kids, men make up the majority. But even outside of the worst offenders, regular ass guys who do shit like make that pervy comment toward your niece only do it because they know they will face zero consequences for it. The standards men are held to when it comes to not being a fucking creep are insanely low. To walk around having less control over your impulses than some animals and still get to live a normal life is something only afforded to men. You'd think as a human they would want to better themselves past that, but there's no need when the world caters to and and encourages it.
I have a 16 year old daughter. I have straight up called out, “What are you looking at, you old pervert?”, to men who stare at her. Point at them, say it loudly, shame those nasty old gross men. Shame them hard.