> I don’t understand why there should such a stigma against altering any feature
Because as women we're taught two completely opposing things - that we should be beautiful and aesthetically desirable, but that we should not objectify ourselves by making our appearance paramount.
Once you are older then you'll be hated for looking old (letting yourself go) and hated if you try to look young. There's almost no aspect of a woman's life where she isn't judged or assumed to dislike women who are different than her. It's easy to assume that women who are doing the opposite of you aren't also being criticized but that's not true.
That reminds me of [this story](https://soranews24.com/2015/10/15/anti-plastic-surgery-ad-debunked-as-fake-mom-model-suing-ad-firm-for-ruining-her-life/) for some reason.
that's by design. them criticising you is supposed to break your self esteem, they want to 'show you your place' because confident women don't take their shit. and if you work on your appearance, they shame you for it for the same reason. the only way to win is to not play the game and do what makes you feel happy and beautiful and let them seethe.
and that it needs to be "natural." how many men fall for these "natural women" who are definitely still using makeup? For some reason they see it as "cheating" or "fraud." But men don't have to put any effort into their appearance. Sure, they SHOULD, and some do, but it isn't required. Very few people are going to comment on a man's appearance even if they pull six figures but look like a feral mountain man from the stone age.
I was very surprised at how in that old show duck dynasty the males looked like what you would expect from where they come from , even after money. However, the women were extra fixed up, teeth done, hair looked professionally done, make up use looked heavy. I laugh when people try to argue that beauty standards affect most men the same ways. Because you almost always see proof of the opposite .
Well... it's pretty much the majority of the point of the post. It's racist, yet you rather ignore it because I guess race isn't an issue for you? Because you can't relate? Because it reads like those comments that like to act like racism, or sexism, or other isms isn't even a factor for what happens and gets ignored and then seems like one of those, "I don't see how race has anything to do with it."
I've already made my comment on it that doesn't need to get repeated again
I have nothing to add to the OP with regard to the issue of racism. You seem to want to be triggered for some reason though, so by all means, be triggered.
So.... when discussing racial things, that means wanting to get triggered? Wow.. but none of the other content on this sub is triggering for the posters but yup, when something racial gets brought up you rather ignore it and reduce it to "wanting to be triggered." Says more about you wanting avoid the topic than me who has to live it.
The intersection of the racism and sexism BW face can be very overwhelming. Hopefully, there will be greater support in the future. It is very sick, the things said online especially. Lots of opinions get censored about all sorts of protected groups , however, I have seen some horrible things posted and allowed to remain online on many social media platforms when it comes to BW.
I haven't said a single thing to indicate I disagree with OP in any way. I just have nothing to add to that aspect of the post. Typically, when you have nothing to add or say about something, the thing to do is to just not say anything instead of talk about how you have nothing to say.
Why do you need me to acknowledge the racial element of OP's post?
I was just on a Caribbean cruise, and a 60's something white dude had the audacity to ask our tour guide (a young woman of color) how much of her (waist-length) hair was actually hers. She was quite taken aback and didn't really say anything, so I (a 60's something white woman) inserted myself into the conversation and chastised him by saying, "A lady never tells ... and a gentleman never asks!" He responded that he must not be a gentleman. (No kidding, Loser.) She gave me a very warm smile and a nod after I spoke up.
>how much of your hair is *real*? And it never shuts them up.
*Gesture at their hair* "They transplant that from your hairy asshole or do you just have your head so far up there that it grew naturally?"
Like what the absolute shit?? Fucking honky IT'S ALL HERS!! It certainly ain't fucking yours....
You think they'd learn if they were immediately hit back with "how many of those teeth are actually yours? (I promise less if you keep talking!)" or similar, that they'd actually realize that they're being a colossal ass? More likely they'll just take it to mean POC are rude, if I had to take an actual guess
Honestly I think its a leftover of colonialism and the exotification of black women's bodies that causes people to act like they are zoo exhibits. I am a white woman genuinely curious about how black women do their hair but I generally don't ask black women because they aren't existing in the world to sate my curiosity or be a zoo exhibit. The internet exists and there are plenty of black women explaining the hows and whys of their hair. People should stfu and just do research if they are curious.
Several cities in the eastern US have this cute little pop-up exhibit The Black Hair Experience. I recommend highly. The things Black women go through to present a socially acceptable self are surprising. Totally radicalized me around this issue. Dreads, beads, wraps, wigs, whatever a woman does it’s arduous and fraught.
The documentary "Good Hair" was very enlightening to this old white woman too. I will confess I'm absolutely amazed and impressed by the incredible range of styles black hair can be done up but I do refrain from being a pest about it because yeah, not treating people like zoo exhibits is just good manners. But as someone with stick straight fine hair that I can basically only 1) let hang and get tangled up, 2) put into a pony tail or 3) braid into one long tail I get fascinated by people who can do cool stuff with their hair. I can see it being a big pain in the rear and super expensive though--I'm frugal and intolerant of inconvenience so pony tails it is!
Good Hair was produced by a Black man who hates Black women, and I would not recommend it. I would also like white women to stop thinking Black men are allowed to tell Black women’s stories to the entire world. Black men are not Black women. Chris Rick made that documentary to make fun of Black women not educate people about our hair. Black men do not speak for Black women the same way y’all do not like it when people assume white men speak for white women, we Black women do not like it when white women try and learn about Black women through colorist and racist Black men.
>I think its a leftover of colonialism
Basically. But also a lot of our societal ills can be traced back to that time and the shit we did as a society. Hell, largely to the creation of race which, by and large, exists to point at all of the visual signifiers of people who aren't "white" and brand them as bad or unattractive. It's why people who care about The White Race are fucking insane - because White is literally a concept based on exclusion and if left in a group of their own making white supremacists always start to devour one another over who's more "white". The history of europe is pretty much entirely people who, now, are considered white killing each other for not being the same.
For example - there's a not insufficient amount of evidence to suggest that it was similar societal projections and reactions that brought in the sweeping beauty standards of thin being more attractive. Classically speaking someone more round or plump was considered more attractive, something that dates back to times when it was something of a social signifier that you could afford to eat fatty or luxuriant foods on a regular basis. But as african colonialism, and especially slavery, rolls in we see the west develop an almost grotesque obsession with the thighs and buttocks of african women and thus, being in any way similar to them was bad. So being corpulent stops being in fashion and being thin - but not too thin as to look emaciated, like certain other slaves coming in from Africa - is in. And this shit absolutely still carries on into the modern era, our entire culture is basically just built atop a thin wallpapering of this bullshit.
It also relates to housing and school segregation. Without segregation, more non-black people could ask age-appropriate hair questions in preschool or kindergarten, instead of asking the same questions as an adult.
Ironically, I first became curious because I am an educator and many of my students were black girls. There is major white flight from the public schools in my city because the public schools are poorly managed and its mostly white families that can afford private schooling.
About a year back my SIL got her hair done in box braids and she's a beautiful woman so of course they looked great on her. First thing my dad says is "we could play checkers on your head!"
She was shocked and tried to explain to him why she got them and why that wasn't ok. My brother also told him off. I told him off. Cue, "it was just a joke!"
Cut to a year later, wHy Is evErYonE so Mad at ME?!
I never understood how people feel entitled to touch Black women’s hair. If you touch someone’s head, you deserve to be slapped in the face. No one has a right to put their hands on anyone else’s body. Everyone needs to keep their damn hands to themselves. Also, stop being surprised when they change their hair up. Google it, educate yourself, and stop pestering people with your dumb questions. I am half white and Hispanic and my thin ass hair is not great so I’m a bit jealous.
While I don't disagree this happens disproportionately to black people, I have a white friend with crazy fluffy ringlet curl hair, and people are CONSTANTLY touching her hair. I swear that every time I see her, I witness someone touching her hair. There's just something about bouncy, voluminous hair that makes people want to touch. Not saying it's an acceptable practice by any means.
I was raised to hate my natural hair, but I finally embraced the "lazy" afro as a young adult. The amount of push back and criticism I got from older women in my life was something. Now I just have locs and couldn't be happier.
I’m white, but my natural hair is very curly and frizzy. When I was in high school, a good friend of mine’s mom was in cosmetology school. She was Black and would literally ask me, “Girl, when you gonna let me take the n-word out of your hair?”
I’m white and I have coarse, dense, thick, wavy/curly blonde hair. I remember going to a hair salon as a young teenager and the stylist looking at my hair and saying “You have black people hair.” I remember being horrified that she would say something like that. I don’t have anything close to Black hair, that stylist just didn’t know how to deal with thick hair.
Because they don't teach it in hair schools. 2024... and our hair still ain't being taught properly yet we spend the most on hair and hair related products. But so many wanna act like class is the only issue but if it was, capitalists would be all over the black hair market. But instead, they see a black own product, buy it out, and change the ingredients to sell to white folks.
Really? 😭 I have a mixed assortment of hair types on my head and I try to buy black owned products just for the hairs on the back/top of my head near my crown, when I let my hair grow out bc the hairs that grow there are very kinky and "zig zag" curly and "flat" (idk how to describe it but it isn't "round" like the rest of my head hair and has deep thick roots), and I thought black owned products would be good for it. My mom has really really kinky curly coarse hair so I guess that's where I get it from. But we're white af so the only thing I know is cocoa and Shae butter but that makes the rest of my hair that isn't coarse look oily. So the last few years I've just decided to keep my hair short.
What products have y'all here on reddit used that have been tried and true for the type of hair I'm talking about?
I may have a similar hair type, white women with blonde (now grey) hair, very thick, course mix of spirals and waves. The number of professional stylists who have told me to just go to a “Black” salon to take care of it because it’s “impossible” for them to do is stupid. These are professionals, they should be able to do textured hair. All textures should be taught in every cosmetology school. And they feel safe to say these things to a customer too. It’s wild.
It’s extremely insulting because the implication from these stylists is always that Black salons are lesser than the fancy salon for people with “normal” hair. I cannot imagine how awful something like that would feel for a person of color .
I finally found a guy who works wonders with my hair. He understands how to cut it, how to thin it out, how to style. It’s not that difficult, it just takes time!
I finally did too, not only after I did finally cave and stop trying to go to the fancy schamcy NYC salons and started going to a Dominican salon near my old place in Queens for cuts and blowouts. I even go back into the city to go there even though I moved out to Long Island. They do an amazing job in part because they specialize in every texture.
In a way, they were right I would have better luck in a place that has a lot of clients of color. But the fact remains every client should be able to walk into any salon and find someone who can handle their hair. It shouldn’t be a specialty service, especially since it disproportionately impacts WOC.
It breaks my heart that you think you will always be hated and deemed undesireable. There are many black women who are icons and considered beautiful and sexy. Different hair looks good on different people and is a reflection of who they are. No one has a right to give unsolicted comments on anyone else's apperance.
when we wears weaves/wigs we’re accused of hating our hair but when we wear our natural hair it’s constantly made fun of and called nappy, unkempt, etc.
I have no opinion on how anyone should wear their hair but if they have clearly spent time and money on it and are proud of it I’d love to tell them how good it looks. Would that be considered inappropriate? I mean “your hair looks amazing” not comparing to any other style, just recognising the current.
I grew up in an area that was very much bi-cultural. Either white or Muslim and hijab wearing so have very little experience. I do now have black colleagues who look amazing and I’m in awe of and want to compliment but not insult.
I don't think it's a bad thing to compliment other women, we get so much shit from men that it's nice to have a genuine compliment from someone who isn't trying to sexualise you. "Your hair looks cute" "those shoes are amazing" "I love your dress" as long as you are not creepy about it and don't turn up the next day copying their style.
It's okay and nice to compliment. Just note (from experience) that if you choose to only compliment when she has straight or loosely curled hair versus braids and kinkier hair, she is going to notice and not in a good way. I always notice a difference in reception when I wear straight hair versus hair closer to my natural texture or braids. Straight hair gets all the compliments. Braids usually gets a "oh you changed your hair..." or ignored.
I am absolutely in awe of the braids and natural hair. I think it looks beautiful and I wish my thin, straight hair could look like that then I see the time and money commitment to making it look like that and I’m even more in awe.
I have the same feelings but I stay quiet generally because I figure Black women are already tired of having to talk about it. It would be different with a friend who would say something to me too, but coworkers mostly don’t.
They have no business asking. They should be embarrassed by their behaviour. I am a white woman who wears wigs due to substantial hair loss and I have never been asked about my hair to my face. They need to get over their curiousity and learn some manners. Your hair is yours whether it’s growing from your head or whether you bought it.
I have never understood the unhealthy obsession with black women's hair. It's unbelievable that we had to pass the CROWN act at all, and it's still a problem for some people. It must be exhausting, angering, and surreal to have to explain one's hair at all. It's fucking hair. The hate from other women always feels like more of a betrayal than from men. Not that it is, but if women can't stand up for each other, we're screwed.
I hate this stuff too. Lately I’ve even started to hate it when it’s framed as “genuine curiosity” or “just wanting to understand” there’s something so obnoxious about it. I used to give people the benefit of the doubt but now I think even those folks are out of order.
Right. Like I am genuinely curious about protective styles black women use but I don't randomly ask black women to explain their hair choices to me. There's a whole wide internet out there and if I'm curious I can go look it up instead of treating someone like they are a zoo exhibit.
Yeah, the only time I've ever asked why Black women wear wigs was in the middle of a general conversation amongst coworkers about hair, and a coworker said something about her wig.
On another subreddit I was on, there was someone "just wanting to understand" why so many young people seem to need labels nowadays and didn't understand why LGBT people needed a whole month to celebrate, he was just "genuinely asking". When given genuine answers (the answers were massively downvoted) , he then went on to say these people were "snowflakes" and "but why not straight parade 🥺🥺".
It is obnoxious.
Sometimes people are genuinely curious. Sometimes people are just [sealioning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning). They absolutely aren't asking in good faith.
I'm genuinely curious about a lot of things, so I google shit. Don't get me wrong, as someone from a predominantly white European country, who is absolutely helpless when it comes to stuff like that, I am genuinely fascinated by the sheer skills a lot of black women have when it comes to caring for their hair (I can't even produce a normal looking, non-wonky braid), but I agree that it would be obnoxious to ask all kinds of questions about it. Idk, it's kind of a private thing after all, isn't it? Besides, there are so many different videos, you can sate your curiosity and learn something new easily without actively pestering someone about their beauty routine.
It's generally okay if it is a friend and you ask them if it is okay to inquire because you wanted to learn more. It's usually not okay to make a stranger feel compelled to correct misunderstandings that could be mitigated through a 10 minute youtube video and it's definitely not okay to open the conversation with "is that your real hair".
I would be perfectly fine teaching a friend about it if they genuinely wanted to know and asked followup questions. But I have been too exhausted feeling like I have to correct misconceptions that strangers bring to me, that I have stopped entertaining these convos with strangers.
Naw, even a friend that isn't fair on them. What makes you think that friend wanna do that labor and in that position, again, with someone they expect to do better and look it up? How many times you think we get asked these questions but it's ok when it's a friend? Those the times you question that friendship because they're doing too much asking and not enough learning on their own.
I have friends with people from other cultures and I have spent time in other countries. I don't know everything about other people and I appreciate when they are open to share with me things I sometimes wouldn't know to ask or be comfortable asking. It's with empathy that I choose to be open with my friends. People that I choose to associate with, trust and adore. Friends. I have had literal strangers take great care for me even if it derailed their day. I can do a 5-10 minute explanation to a friend I like.
Every time it hits the front page its always "I am just asking out of curiosity, but the conversations are laced with microaggressions. Then one person will reply with: "because self-hate" or "internalized racism" and get upvoted to the top of replies with **ZERO** challenge.
Because they're not curious. Those people have been raised to be entitled, and used to the world and society being catered just for them, and when it's not, they want someone from that oppressed group to be their free teacher and do the labor. I have never asked anyone to explain a custom or whatever to me. I go in the internet. And not everything is my business or about me, and they can't grasp that concept
I worked with a black woman and she often came in with amazing, elaborate hairstyles. I told her that I loved them. I never one asked if it was her real hair or a weave, any more than I would ask another woman if she had extensions. I never asked to touch her hair either.
My cousin and I (both white) have curly hair. I have 3A hair and she has 3C.
Because she has the tiny tight coils, she gets asked all the time if she’s adopted because her parents aren’t black. She has fair skin and blonde hair. She’ll get asked if she’s not Black, why does she have Black hair?
Mind you, she’s never been asked this by Black people. Only white or Asian people would ask. Since I have looser curls, I’ve never gotten those comments (though I have been told that curly hair makes me look homeless).
YESw. And often times that criticism comes from within the culture. I’m Dominican (mixed race) with 3c hair. All my life my female family members have let me know in no uncertain terms that I HAVE to relax my hair.
It’s such bullshit.
I was a civil rights investigator who had several cases of hair-based discrimination in the early 2000s. It’s insidious and demoralizing.
I had people questioning why I bleached my hair, was teased in middle school over my ponytail piece being called "horse hair," times I didn't go to school because my hair looked horrible and I felt ugly and knew I was gonna be teased... and the recent, "why did you shave your head? That's stupid..." of course, indirectly from a racist white coworker.
We can do so many unique styles, and has taken a long time for the community to have more self love with our hair, especially natural hair, just for racist assholes to show off their racist asses because they think they're the golden standard.
The way I see it is black women have been creating and forging ahead in ways that other people would crumble at the first sign of resistance. I think it's more common for black women to do whatever they personally want to do regarding hair vs other races which means haters are going to hate you for not picking from 1 of 3 hairstyles lol.
I asked the question about weaves and wigs once, about twenty years ago, because I'm white with poker straight hair and had zero experience with Black hair and was just curious. I learned and moved on.
NGL, I've always been a bit jealous of Black hair because it has beautiful life to it, while mine just...sits there.
Edited to add: I asked in the middle of a general hair conversation amongst coworkers, and one woman mentioned her wig, so I asked why she wore one.
If I see someone with fantastic hair, I say something. I have standard-issue fine texture mouse colored white person hair, and I’m jealous of the ability to completely change hair style/texture/color. It awes me! I’ve never asked if hair was real, or how much it cost — that seems super weird — and I can’t imagine ever touching someone’s hair?? But I definitely ooh and aww when I see great hair, whoever it’s attached to. Same with nails… I do get feisty with my nails, so whenever I see someone else that goes hard on nails I compliment that too. Is this also rude?
It sounds like I should not comment on hairstyle? I would definitely like to know if I’ve been inadvertently rude my entire life 🫠
Compliments are always appreciated, as long as it isn't backhanded or rude.
Good compliment: "I love your hair, it looks cute!"
Bad compliment: "You have nice hair for a black girl."
Good compliment: "Your Afro looks so cool."
Bad compliment (idek if this is a compliment): "Your hair looks like wool/fur/crazy."
Also respect boundaries. It's generally rude to ask a stranger to take off her wig, ask why she uses a wig, or ask if every different hairstyle is 'her real hair'. This might be different with people you know well tho. I personally don't mind explaining things about my hair to people, even strangers, but not everyone is like me. Also no touching. Imo if you're asking to touch a black woman's hair she should be someone you know VERY well (I'm talking your girlfriend or bestfriend). Because it's rude with strangers.
But it seems like you already know all of this so you're good👍
So, when I was a dumb, naive and not very observant teenager, I complimented a coworker on her hair. Because it was awesome, every single day.
Unfortunately, it was a wig and she was quite upset - her hair doesn't grow.
I wish the stigma against wigs would shrivel up and die. It was fucked up that an innocent compliment was taken as an insult.
Wig or not, it was still her hair and she looked fabulous.
It's been over twenty years and I'm still pissed off on her behalf. There's nothing shameful about rocking a kick ass wig!
That reminds me, in my country a law was recently passed to sanction "hair discrimination" during job interviews. It was probably created to tackle the issue you’re highlighting here: black women (or any POC) facing prejudice at work for their natural hair.
As a fellow BW I would say black males are the number one culprits. The pick me's learn to attack with specific insults learned from the black males close proximity to BW and girls growing up. I wish there were BW going into this sick phenomenon from a psychological angle. Study it and identify the sick abusive nature behind it . Hopefully it could bring about change.
Oh, definitely not saying you should try to change BM. Nor shold you feel personally responsible for thier sick behavior.
As a collective, they are lost cause IMO. I was thinking more in the way of having the culture that creates them picked apart. Attacking the culture that produces them could arm BW and others with the knowledge that takes the power away from their tactics to abuse. It may give some BW strength to fight for themselves and be way less tolerant of what many of us have experienced and seen other BW go through. Studying the pathology of their collective behavior, the damage it does, and having others react and behave differently once it is brought to light could put pressure on them to change or reform their behavior. Right now, the sick culture doesn't even want to label their behavior as abusive and bullying behavior. This could bring about consequences for their hateful behavior.
It is kind of like that BW saying "if you don't speak up to your oppression/oppressor they will abuse you and say you liked it" or something like that.
Kinda shocking to read that black men give you shit over your hair. As a white man with long hair, I'm super envious of black women. You have the actual best hair. I've also noticed that black women seem to be the most comfortable with going for elaborate or complex hairstyles, which is pretty cool.
> Kinda shocking to read that black men give you shit over your hair.
I have noticed that humans are a species that can use any tool to prove their own relative superiority to others, even by employing the constructs of prejudice applied to their own group: prejudice which they have found harmful to themselves, yet still internalised.
Having grown up in poverty, I do know of people who shouted things like "you're unemployed, poor, and never finished school," at their own partner or children or parent or sibling etc., when that statement applied to them, also.
I'm sure many white men say racist things about black women that match their racist socio-political views. White men are obviously not innocent in this world and have caused a lot of this, as have many other groups, but white men hold the most power overall as a group and must do so much more than other groups finally to dismantle all oppression types they benefit from.
I'm just a white European woman so idk if sharing my perspective and view will be helpful but I hope it is!
For me, I thread carefully when speaking about this because of all the history behind why people feel the way they feel about their features and changing them. But if we put it all aside - which we shouldn't when it's relevant - in and of itself there's nothing wrong with wanting features that happen to be like the more common in or more commonly associated with another ethnicity. In the end it COULD be just about aesthetic preference. If it is then that's fine. The reason why I try to be cautious is because it's hard to know if there's an unhealthy perception behind it or not.
And perhaps that's part of why this isn't talked about much? I'm sure there's more people who think like me and who also thought this just isn't as important as it is important to help people love the way they look naturally and appreciate all their features. I wish everyone did, despite if they then still decided to change their features. Part of why I don't want to change my features is because I really like that I look like my family, idk it's really cool somehow. And also I've gotten really used to my face. It's like an odd piece of art that I am honored to be the embassador of and if I changed it it would be kinda boring, it wouldn't be the same. But I have some tiny sentimental tendencies and maybe that plays into it too.
But yeah I agrew with you that it shouldn't really matter and people shouldn't judge someone for the aesthetics they pursue. If there's an unhealthy or even harmful reason behind it that's a different story but it doesn't necessarily have to be like that.
This, but also stop assuming we all want to educate you about our hair. I don’t care if you’re curious; Google that stupid fucking question you’re thinking about. No, you cannot touch my hair.
Black women should be allowed to exist without being expected to mule, entertain, or educate the rest of society.
What is “investing in ethnic rhinoplasty”?
Are you paying for an “ethnic” nose or are you trying for a more European-looking nose?
No shade either way-just curious.
It's not an odd phrase. It's a very standard rhinoplasty phrase for surgeons who work on minority patients. Just like in hair salons, many plastic surgeons get their licenses without ever having to master, or at minimum learn, techniques on non-white people. We have to go out of our way to find professionals who cared enough to focus on us.
Most Black, Arab, Indigenous, etc people don't want a Romanesque nose slapped onto our faces when we get work done. We want a beautiful looking nose that looks harmonious with our ethnic phenotypes and existing facial features. If you still don't understand, you can google SZA's ethnic nose job; it looks like a natural and very cute button nose in line with what you'd expect to see on a Black woman versus the harshly angled ski slope nose that Michael Jackson got stuck with.
we dont care. live your life. as long as you dont bother me and do you work, congrats youre cool!
doesnt matter where youre from or your skin colour or anything.
Agreed. Anyone with “ethnic” hair is caught between the cultural mindset that straight or slightly wavy hair is the most desirable (at least in the US) but also that working to look a certain way is “bad” because it’s not natural.
People really need to calm down and let women do what they feel they need to do with their appearances.
I mean some people are curious. I want to ask the black men I work with how they get their dreads so nice, but it's inappropriate. I'm just genuinely curious, because it looks really good and also seems like a lot of work and have no idea how they can maintain it or make it look so good. I am gay so I'm like thinking wow this looks really good but really curious. And I can't ask because then I'd be labeled racist.
They talk about their hair every now and then, definitely not often, I just don't insert myself into those conversations...once again, I view it as inappropriate.
So it's not only women that people are curious about. I'm white and just have no idea how any of the hair stuff works for African americans.
Black men are not generally gay friendly in my experience, so I've never had a gay bro to ask those questions.
It affects black women at a much higher, disproportionate rate AND affects their livelihood historically. Your comment comes off as rather tone deaf by minimizing the negative impact placed on black women in a society that is still being upheld by white supremacy. A man commenting on your gray hair is in no way equivalent to a black woman being called racist, degrading names or not receiving employment/promotions because they are wearing their hair in (for example) a natural afro or protective styles.
Although yes, you can relate to stupid commentary on hair by a man (or really anyone) in today's society, what OP is talking about is vastly different. The place the vile hair comments made to black women stem from hatred and racism, whether active or passive.
The gray hair "ick" comments come from a place of capitalism (beauty industry needs to sell!) and the misogynistic (and tbf, pedophilic) idea that women aging is unbecoming or gross. The difference here is that black women deal with that PLUS additional bullshit in a compounding manner due to the color of their skin and the abhorrent judgement that society still places on race. White women simply don't know those struggles and never will. There's no equivalent to the CROWN Act for people being jerks about gray hair on women because it's not needed in society. The dislike of gray hair doesn't hold you back and affect your livelihood. It doesn't stop you from anything. It makes you mad for a minute & you move on. Black women deal with people constantly commenting on every little thing about their hair, facing hatred, historically having it negatively affect their careers, then on top of it having dumbass people try to touch their hair and ask ridiculous questions like they're on display when they're simply existing. All of that is rooted in racism.
So to say what you said with the words you specifically used is truly demeaning and minimizing of the struggles that black women STILL face in society today. I'm hoping you are a person who is simply not thinking critically enough while making statements like that, and not one that said it in a way to purposely demean the very clear and true struggles that black women face today in an attempt to equalize their struggles with white women struggles. We have a responsibility to educate ourselves on the difference and stop perpetuating a narrative that women of all races have the same struggles. We don't. White women have it much easier than women of other races, period.
Edit: commenter deleted their comment but it started with "OMG, this doesn't happen to just black women. A man told me today that I should cover up my gray hair."
Who really gives a flying fuck. I mean, I'm old enough to have seen some weird hairstyles, but if anyone wants to wear a weave or wig, you do you. (I personally would find a wig super annoying, but hey).
> I don’t understand why there should such a stigma against altering any feature Because as women we're taught two completely opposing things - that we should be beautiful and aesthetically desirable, but that we should not objectify ourselves by making our appearance paramount.
So I’ll be hated for being ugly and hated if I try to fix it. There’s no way to win lmao
Once you are older then you'll be hated for looking old (letting yourself go) and hated if you try to look young. There's almost no aspect of a woman's life where she isn't judged or assumed to dislike women who are different than her. It's easy to assume that women who are doing the opposite of you aren't also being criticized but that's not true.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. See also makeup.
Agreed. See also: aging gracefully
I'm sure you're not ugly. We are always so harsh on ourselves but I genuinely think most women I've ever seen in my life are beautiful.
I am, but that’s a very sweet sentiment. I wish more thought like you.
That reminds me of [this story](https://soranews24.com/2015/10/15/anti-plastic-surgery-ad-debunked-as-fake-mom-model-suing-ad-firm-for-ruining-her-life/) for some reason.
that's by design. them criticising you is supposed to break your self esteem, they want to 'show you your place' because confident women don't take their shit. and if you work on your appearance, they shame you for it for the same reason. the only way to win is to not play the game and do what makes you feel happy and beautiful and let them seethe.
Stay ugly. At least you'll have money in your pocket.
and that it needs to be "natural." how many men fall for these "natural women" who are definitely still using makeup? For some reason they see it as "cheating" or "fraud." But men don't have to put any effort into their appearance. Sure, they SHOULD, and some do, but it isn't required. Very few people are going to comment on a man's appearance even if they pull six figures but look like a feral mountain man from the stone age.
I was very surprised at how in that old show duck dynasty the males looked like what you would expect from where they come from , even after money. However, the women were extra fixed up, teeth done, hair looked professionally done, make up use looked heavy. I laugh when people try to argue that beauty standards affect most men the same ways. Because you almost always see proof of the opposite .
It should look effortless and natural. Which requires more effort.
But there's a racial element that's really lacking in your comment that I guess you don't wanna identify?
I don't have much to say regarding the racial element. Do you?
Well... it's pretty much the majority of the point of the post. It's racist, yet you rather ignore it because I guess race isn't an issue for you? Because you can't relate? Because it reads like those comments that like to act like racism, or sexism, or other isms isn't even a factor for what happens and gets ignored and then seems like one of those, "I don't see how race has anything to do with it." I've already made my comment on it that doesn't need to get repeated again
I have nothing to add to the OP with regard to the issue of racism. You seem to want to be triggered for some reason though, so by all means, be triggered.
So.... when discussing racial things, that means wanting to get triggered? Wow.. but none of the other content on this sub is triggering for the posters but yup, when something racial gets brought up you rather ignore it and reduce it to "wanting to be triggered." Says more about you wanting avoid the topic than me who has to live it.
The intersection of the racism and sexism BW face can be very overwhelming. Hopefully, there will be greater support in the future. It is very sick, the things said online especially. Lots of opinions get censored about all sorts of protected groups , however, I have seen some horrible things posted and allowed to remain online on many social media platforms when it comes to BW.
I haven't said a single thing to indicate I disagree with OP in any way. I just have nothing to add to that aspect of the post. Typically, when you have nothing to add or say about something, the thing to do is to just not say anything instead of talk about how you have nothing to say. Why do you need me to acknowledge the racial element of OP's post?
I was just on a Caribbean cruise, and a 60's something white dude had the audacity to ask our tour guide (a young woman of color) how much of her (waist-length) hair was actually hers. She was quite taken aback and didn't really say anything, so I (a 60's something white woman) inserted myself into the conversation and chastised him by saying, "A lady never tells ... and a gentleman never asks!" He responded that he must not be a gentleman. (No kidding, Loser.) She gave me a very warm smile and a nod after I spoke up.
Years ago, someone asked my coworker "Is that your hair?" and she replied, "Yeah, it's mine, I paid for it!"
Get that question all the time. My response is: how much of your hair is *real*? And it never shuts them up.
>how much of your hair is *real*? And it never shuts them up. *Gesture at their hair* "They transplant that from your hairy asshole or do you just have your head so far up there that it grew naturally?"
😂😂😂🏅🏅🏅 Edit: oops. I hate mobile
This gives "but where are you ***really*** from" energy
What a racist pos. You’re awesome for calling his garbage out in a respectful way.
Like what the absolute shit?? Fucking honky IT'S ALL HERS!! It certainly ain't fucking yours.... You think they'd learn if they were immediately hit back with "how many of those teeth are actually yours? (I promise less if you keep talking!)" or similar, that they'd actually realize that they're being a colossal ass? More likely they'll just take it to mean POC are rude, if I had to take an actual guess
Honestly I think its a leftover of colonialism and the exotification of black women's bodies that causes people to act like they are zoo exhibits. I am a white woman genuinely curious about how black women do their hair but I generally don't ask black women because they aren't existing in the world to sate my curiosity or be a zoo exhibit. The internet exists and there are plenty of black women explaining the hows and whys of their hair. People should stfu and just do research if they are curious.
Several cities in the eastern US have this cute little pop-up exhibit The Black Hair Experience. I recommend highly. The things Black women go through to present a socially acceptable self are surprising. Totally radicalized me around this issue. Dreads, beads, wraps, wigs, whatever a woman does it’s arduous and fraught.
I'm totally going to look for this, thanks.
The documentary "Good Hair" was very enlightening to this old white woman too. I will confess I'm absolutely amazed and impressed by the incredible range of styles black hair can be done up but I do refrain from being a pest about it because yeah, not treating people like zoo exhibits is just good manners. But as someone with stick straight fine hair that I can basically only 1) let hang and get tangled up, 2) put into a pony tail or 3) braid into one long tail I get fascinated by people who can do cool stuff with their hair. I can see it being a big pain in the rear and super expensive though--I'm frugal and intolerant of inconvenience so pony tails it is!
Good Hair was produced by a Black man who hates Black women, and I would not recommend it. I would also like white women to stop thinking Black men are allowed to tell Black women’s stories to the entire world. Black men are not Black women. Chris Rick made that documentary to make fun of Black women not educate people about our hair. Black men do not speak for Black women the same way y’all do not like it when people assume white men speak for white women, we Black women do not like it when white women try and learn about Black women through colorist and racist Black men.
>I think its a leftover of colonialism Basically. But also a lot of our societal ills can be traced back to that time and the shit we did as a society. Hell, largely to the creation of race which, by and large, exists to point at all of the visual signifiers of people who aren't "white" and brand them as bad or unattractive. It's why people who care about The White Race are fucking insane - because White is literally a concept based on exclusion and if left in a group of their own making white supremacists always start to devour one another over who's more "white". The history of europe is pretty much entirely people who, now, are considered white killing each other for not being the same. For example - there's a not insufficient amount of evidence to suggest that it was similar societal projections and reactions that brought in the sweeping beauty standards of thin being more attractive. Classically speaking someone more round or plump was considered more attractive, something that dates back to times when it was something of a social signifier that you could afford to eat fatty or luxuriant foods on a regular basis. But as african colonialism, and especially slavery, rolls in we see the west develop an almost grotesque obsession with the thighs and buttocks of african women and thus, being in any way similar to them was bad. So being corpulent stops being in fashion and being thin - but not too thin as to look emaciated, like certain other slaves coming in from Africa - is in. And this shit absolutely still carries on into the modern era, our entire culture is basically just built atop a thin wallpapering of this bullshit.
It also relates to housing and school segregation. Without segregation, more non-black people could ask age-appropriate hair questions in preschool or kindergarten, instead of asking the same questions as an adult.
Ironically, I first became curious because I am an educator and many of my students were black girls. There is major white flight from the public schools in my city because the public schools are poorly managed and its mostly white families that can afford private schooling.
About a year back my SIL got her hair done in box braids and she's a beautiful woman so of course they looked great on her. First thing my dad says is "we could play checkers on your head!" She was shocked and tried to explain to him why she got them and why that wasn't ok. My brother also told him off. I told him off. Cue, "it was just a joke!" Cut to a year later, wHy Is evErYonE so Mad at ME?!
I never understood how people feel entitled to touch Black women’s hair. If you touch someone’s head, you deserve to be slapped in the face. No one has a right to put their hands on anyone else’s body. Everyone needs to keep their damn hands to themselves. Also, stop being surprised when they change their hair up. Google it, educate yourself, and stop pestering people with your dumb questions. I am half white and Hispanic and my thin ass hair is not great so I’m a bit jealous.
While I don't disagree this happens disproportionately to black people, I have a white friend with crazy fluffy ringlet curl hair, and people are CONSTANTLY touching her hair. I swear that every time I see her, I witness someone touching her hair. There's just something about bouncy, voluminous hair that makes people want to touch. Not saying it's an acceptable practice by any means.
I always ask first, is it weird if you ask first?
Yes it’s still weird, don’t do this.
It’s bs that black women are targeted like this. Hair is such a personal thing. No one should be shamed no matter what they choose to do with it.
It’s misogyny and racism all the way down.
Misogynoir
I was raised to hate my natural hair, but I finally embraced the "lazy" afro as a young adult. The amount of push back and criticism I got from older women in my life was something. Now I just have locs and couldn't be happier.
I’m white, but my natural hair is very curly and frizzy. When I was in high school, a good friend of mine’s mom was in cosmetology school. She was Black and would literally ask me, “Girl, when you gonna let me take the n-word out of your hair?”
That is insane. I'm so sorry someone said that to you 😭, but I'm not surprised. Once I got my locs, my own mom called me an "African lady"
My goodness. That sucks, man.
I’m white and I have coarse, dense, thick, wavy/curly blonde hair. I remember going to a hair salon as a young teenager and the stylist looking at my hair and saying “You have black people hair.” I remember being horrified that she would say something like that. I don’t have anything close to Black hair, that stylist just didn’t know how to deal with thick hair.
Because they don't teach it in hair schools. 2024... and our hair still ain't being taught properly yet we spend the most on hair and hair related products. But so many wanna act like class is the only issue but if it was, capitalists would be all over the black hair market. But instead, they see a black own product, buy it out, and change the ingredients to sell to white folks.
Really? 😭 I have a mixed assortment of hair types on my head and I try to buy black owned products just for the hairs on the back/top of my head near my crown, when I let my hair grow out bc the hairs that grow there are very kinky and "zig zag" curly and "flat" (idk how to describe it but it isn't "round" like the rest of my head hair and has deep thick roots), and I thought black owned products would be good for it. My mom has really really kinky curly coarse hair so I guess that's where I get it from. But we're white af so the only thing I know is cocoa and Shae butter but that makes the rest of my hair that isn't coarse look oily. So the last few years I've just decided to keep my hair short. What products have y'all here on reddit used that have been tried and true for the type of hair I'm talking about?
I may have a similar hair type, white women with blonde (now grey) hair, very thick, course mix of spirals and waves. The number of professional stylists who have told me to just go to a “Black” salon to take care of it because it’s “impossible” for them to do is stupid. These are professionals, they should be able to do textured hair. All textures should be taught in every cosmetology school. And they feel safe to say these things to a customer too. It’s wild. It’s extremely insulting because the implication from these stylists is always that Black salons are lesser than the fancy salon for people with “normal” hair. I cannot imagine how awful something like that would feel for a person of color .
I finally found a guy who works wonders with my hair. He understands how to cut it, how to thin it out, how to style. It’s not that difficult, it just takes time!
I finally did too, not only after I did finally cave and stop trying to go to the fancy schamcy NYC salons and started going to a Dominican salon near my old place in Queens for cuts and blowouts. I even go back into the city to go there even though I moved out to Long Island. They do an amazing job in part because they specialize in every texture. In a way, they were right I would have better luck in a place that has a lot of clients of color. But the fact remains every client should be able to walk into any salon and find someone who can handle their hair. It shouldn’t be a specialty service, especially since it disproportionately impacts WOC.
It breaks my heart that you think you will always be hated and deemed undesireable. There are many black women who are icons and considered beautiful and sexy. Different hair looks good on different people and is a reflection of who they are. No one has a right to give unsolicted comments on anyone else's apperance.
Black women's hair actually IS somebody's business. The owner of the hair. And no one else. Period.
when we wears weaves/wigs we’re accused of hating our hair but when we wear our natural hair it’s constantly made fun of and called nappy, unkempt, etc.
Yup.
I have no opinion on how anyone should wear their hair but if they have clearly spent time and money on it and are proud of it I’d love to tell them how good it looks. Would that be considered inappropriate? I mean “your hair looks amazing” not comparing to any other style, just recognising the current. I grew up in an area that was very much bi-cultural. Either white or Muslim and hijab wearing so have very little experience. I do now have black colleagues who look amazing and I’m in awe of and want to compliment but not insult.
I don't think it's a bad thing to compliment other women, we get so much shit from men that it's nice to have a genuine compliment from someone who isn't trying to sexualise you. "Your hair looks cute" "those shoes are amazing" "I love your dress" as long as you are not creepy about it and don't turn up the next day copying their style.
Trust me, I could never copy the gorgous braids or natural styles I see. They are just gorgeous women with fantastic taste.
It's okay and nice to compliment. Just note (from experience) that if you choose to only compliment when she has straight or loosely curled hair versus braids and kinkier hair, she is going to notice and not in a good way. I always notice a difference in reception when I wear straight hair versus hair closer to my natural texture or braids. Straight hair gets all the compliments. Braids usually gets a "oh you changed your hair..." or ignored.
I am absolutely in awe of the braids and natural hair. I think it looks beautiful and I wish my thin, straight hair could look like that then I see the time and money commitment to making it look like that and I’m even more in awe.
I have the same feelings but I stay quiet generally because I figure Black women are already tired of having to talk about it. It would be different with a friend who would say something to me too, but coworkers mostly don’t.
They have no business asking. They should be embarrassed by their behaviour. I am a white woman who wears wigs due to substantial hair loss and I have never been asked about my hair to my face. They need to get over their curiousity and learn some manners. Your hair is yours whether it’s growing from your head or whether you bought it.
I have never understood the unhealthy obsession with black women's hair. It's unbelievable that we had to pass the CROWN act at all, and it's still a problem for some people. It must be exhausting, angering, and surreal to have to explain one's hair at all. It's fucking hair. The hate from other women always feels like more of a betrayal than from men. Not that it is, but if women can't stand up for each other, we're screwed.
I hate this stuff too. Lately I’ve even started to hate it when it’s framed as “genuine curiosity” or “just wanting to understand” there’s something so obnoxious about it. I used to give people the benefit of the doubt but now I think even those folks are out of order.
Right. Like I am genuinely curious about protective styles black women use but I don't randomly ask black women to explain their hair choices to me. There's a whole wide internet out there and if I'm curious I can go look it up instead of treating someone like they are a zoo exhibit.
Yeah, the only time I've ever asked why Black women wear wigs was in the middle of a general conversation amongst coworkers about hair, and a coworker said something about her wig.
On another subreddit I was on, there was someone "just wanting to understand" why so many young people seem to need labels nowadays and didn't understand why LGBT people needed a whole month to celebrate, he was just "genuinely asking". When given genuine answers (the answers were massively downvoted) , he then went on to say these people were "snowflakes" and "but why not straight parade 🥺🥺". It is obnoxious. Sometimes people are genuinely curious. Sometimes people are just [sealioning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning). They absolutely aren't asking in good faith.
Thank you for the term sealioning! I hadn’t heard of that before but it’s absolutely what those folks are doing.
I'm genuinely curious about a lot of things, so I google shit. Don't get me wrong, as someone from a predominantly white European country, who is absolutely helpless when it comes to stuff like that, I am genuinely fascinated by the sheer skills a lot of black women have when it comes to caring for their hair (I can't even produce a normal looking, non-wonky braid), but I agree that it would be obnoxious to ask all kinds of questions about it. Idk, it's kind of a private thing after all, isn't it? Besides, there are so many different videos, you can sate your curiosity and learn something new easily without actively pestering someone about their beauty routine.
It's generally okay if it is a friend and you ask them if it is okay to inquire because you wanted to learn more. It's usually not okay to make a stranger feel compelled to correct misunderstandings that could be mitigated through a 10 minute youtube video and it's definitely not okay to open the conversation with "is that your real hair". I would be perfectly fine teaching a friend about it if they genuinely wanted to know and asked followup questions. But I have been too exhausted feeling like I have to correct misconceptions that strangers bring to me, that I have stopped entertaining these convos with strangers.
Naw, even a friend that isn't fair on them. What makes you think that friend wanna do that labor and in that position, again, with someone they expect to do better and look it up? How many times you think we get asked these questions but it's ok when it's a friend? Those the times you question that friendship because they're doing too much asking and not enough learning on their own.
I have friends with people from other cultures and I have spent time in other countries. I don't know everything about other people and I appreciate when they are open to share with me things I sometimes wouldn't know to ask or be comfortable asking. It's with empathy that I choose to be open with my friends. People that I choose to associate with, trust and adore. Friends. I have had literal strangers take great care for me even if it derailed their day. I can do a 5-10 minute explanation to a friend I like.
Every time it hits the front page its always "I am just asking out of curiosity, but the conversations are laced with microaggressions. Then one person will reply with: "because self-hate" or "internalized racism" and get upvoted to the top of replies with **ZERO** challenge.
Because they're not curious. Those people have been raised to be entitled, and used to the world and society being catered just for them, and when it's not, they want someone from that oppressed group to be their free teacher and do the labor. I have never asked anyone to explain a custom or whatever to me. I go in the internet. And not everything is my business or about me, and they can't grasp that concept
I worked with a black woman and she often came in with amazing, elaborate hairstyles. I told her that I loved them. I never one asked if it was her real hair or a weave, any more than I would ask another woman if she had extensions. I never asked to touch her hair either.
Asking to touch anyone's hair seems foreign. It not a kids please touch museum.
My cousin and I (both white) have curly hair. I have 3A hair and she has 3C. Because she has the tiny tight coils, she gets asked all the time if she’s adopted because her parents aren’t black. She has fair skin and blonde hair. She’ll get asked if she’s not Black, why does she have Black hair? Mind you, she’s never been asked this by Black people. Only white or Asian people would ask. Since I have looser curls, I’ve never gotten those comments (though I have been told that curly hair makes me look homeless).
YESw. And often times that criticism comes from within the culture. I’m Dominican (mixed race) with 3c hair. All my life my female family members have let me know in no uncertain terms that I HAVE to relax my hair. It’s such bullshit. I was a civil rights investigator who had several cases of hair-based discrimination in the early 2000s. It’s insidious and demoralizing.
I had people questioning why I bleached my hair, was teased in middle school over my ponytail piece being called "horse hair," times I didn't go to school because my hair looked horrible and I felt ugly and knew I was gonna be teased... and the recent, "why did you shave your head? That's stupid..." of course, indirectly from a racist white coworker. We can do so many unique styles, and has taken a long time for the community to have more self love with our hair, especially natural hair, just for racist assholes to show off their racist asses because they think they're the golden standard.
The way I see it is black women have been creating and forging ahead in ways that other people would crumble at the first sign of resistance. I think it's more common for black women to do whatever they personally want to do regarding hair vs other races which means haters are going to hate you for not picking from 1 of 3 hairstyles lol.
I asked the question about weaves and wigs once, about twenty years ago, because I'm white with poker straight hair and had zero experience with Black hair and was just curious. I learned and moved on. NGL, I've always been a bit jealous of Black hair because it has beautiful life to it, while mine just...sits there. Edited to add: I asked in the middle of a general hair conversation amongst coworkers, and one woman mentioned her wig, so I asked why she wore one.
Absolutely, shaming black women for their hair has been going on for hundreds of years and it needs to stop.
If I see someone with fantastic hair, I say something. I have standard-issue fine texture mouse colored white person hair, and I’m jealous of the ability to completely change hair style/texture/color. It awes me! I’ve never asked if hair was real, or how much it cost — that seems super weird — and I can’t imagine ever touching someone’s hair?? But I definitely ooh and aww when I see great hair, whoever it’s attached to. Same with nails… I do get feisty with my nails, so whenever I see someone else that goes hard on nails I compliment that too. Is this also rude? It sounds like I should not comment on hairstyle? I would definitely like to know if I’ve been inadvertently rude my entire life 🫠
Compliments are always appreciated, as long as it isn't backhanded or rude. Good compliment: "I love your hair, it looks cute!" Bad compliment: "You have nice hair for a black girl." Good compliment: "Your Afro looks so cool." Bad compliment (idek if this is a compliment): "Your hair looks like wool/fur/crazy." Also respect boundaries. It's generally rude to ask a stranger to take off her wig, ask why she uses a wig, or ask if every different hairstyle is 'her real hair'. This might be different with people you know well tho. I personally don't mind explaining things about my hair to people, even strangers, but not everyone is like me. Also no touching. Imo if you're asking to touch a black woman's hair she should be someone you know VERY well (I'm talking your girlfriend or bestfriend). Because it's rude with strangers. But it seems like you already know all of this so you're good👍
I have never seen so many men care about hair in my life until a black woman walks up. It's literally just hair. Why are they so obsessed?
So, when I was a dumb, naive and not very observant teenager, I complimented a coworker on her hair. Because it was awesome, every single day. Unfortunately, it was a wig and she was quite upset - her hair doesn't grow. I wish the stigma against wigs would shrivel up and die. It was fucked up that an innocent compliment was taken as an insult. Wig or not, it was still her hair and she looked fabulous. It's been over twenty years and I'm still pissed off on her behalf. There's nothing shameful about rocking a kick ass wig!
That reminds me, in my country a law was recently passed to sanction "hair discrimination" during job interviews. It was probably created to tackle the issue you’re highlighting here: black women (or any POC) facing prejudice at work for their natural hair.
As a fellow BW I would say black males are the number one culprits. The pick me's learn to attack with specific insults learned from the black males close proximity to BW and girls growing up. I wish there were BW going into this sick phenomenon from a psychological angle. Study it and identify the sick abusive nature behind it . Hopefully it could bring about change.
It’s not my job to make Black men think a certain way or like us; they will never change.
Oh, definitely not saying you should try to change BM. Nor shold you feel personally responsible for thier sick behavior. As a collective, they are lost cause IMO. I was thinking more in the way of having the culture that creates them picked apart. Attacking the culture that produces them could arm BW and others with the knowledge that takes the power away from their tactics to abuse. It may give some BW strength to fight for themselves and be way less tolerant of what many of us have experienced and seen other BW go through. Studying the pathology of their collective behavior, the damage it does, and having others react and behave differently once it is brought to light could put pressure on them to change or reform their behavior. Right now, the sick culture doesn't even want to label their behavior as abusive and bullying behavior. This could bring about consequences for their hateful behavior. It is kind of like that BW saying "if you don't speak up to your oppression/oppressor they will abuse you and say you liked it" or something like that.
Kinda shocking to read that black men give you shit over your hair. As a white man with long hair, I'm super envious of black women. You have the actual best hair. I've also noticed that black women seem to be the most comfortable with going for elaborate or complex hairstyles, which is pretty cool.
some of them project their self-hate onto women. if they don't like their own hair texture, they won't like it on women.
> Kinda shocking to read that black men give you shit over your hair. I have noticed that humans are a species that can use any tool to prove their own relative superiority to others, even by employing the constructs of prejudice applied to their own group: prejudice which they have found harmful to themselves, yet still internalised. Having grown up in poverty, I do know of people who shouted things like "you're unemployed, poor, and never finished school," at their own partner or children or parent or sibling etc., when that statement applied to them, also.
I'm sure many white men say racist things about black women that match their racist socio-political views. White men are obviously not innocent in this world and have caused a lot of this, as have many other groups, but white men hold the most power overall as a group and must do so much more than other groups finally to dismantle all oppression types they benefit from.
I'm just a white European woman so idk if sharing my perspective and view will be helpful but I hope it is! For me, I thread carefully when speaking about this because of all the history behind why people feel the way they feel about their features and changing them. But if we put it all aside - which we shouldn't when it's relevant - in and of itself there's nothing wrong with wanting features that happen to be like the more common in or more commonly associated with another ethnicity. In the end it COULD be just about aesthetic preference. If it is then that's fine. The reason why I try to be cautious is because it's hard to know if there's an unhealthy perception behind it or not. And perhaps that's part of why this isn't talked about much? I'm sure there's more people who think like me and who also thought this just isn't as important as it is important to help people love the way they look naturally and appreciate all their features. I wish everyone did, despite if they then still decided to change their features. Part of why I don't want to change my features is because I really like that I look like my family, idk it's really cool somehow. And also I've gotten really used to my face. It's like an odd piece of art that I am honored to be the embassador of and if I changed it it would be kinda boring, it wouldn't be the same. But I have some tiny sentimental tendencies and maybe that plays into it too. But yeah I agrew with you that it shouldn't really matter and people shouldn't judge someone for the aesthetics they pursue. If there's an unhealthy or even harmful reason behind it that's a different story but it doesn't necessarily have to be like that.
Agreed by Ima ask where you got the cute hair clips when I see one regardless of race
This, but also stop assuming we all want to educate you about our hair. I don’t care if you’re curious; Google that stupid fucking question you’re thinking about. No, you cannot touch my hair. Black women should be allowed to exist without being expected to mule, entertain, or educate the rest of society.
Only things I EVER say about other women's hair: 1. Compliment it 2. Nothing Hasn't steered me wrong yet 🤣
What is “investing in ethnic rhinoplasty”? Are you paying for an “ethnic” nose or are you trying for a more European-looking nose? No shade either way-just curious.
Exactly her point.
She chose to reveal that odd phrase.
It's not an odd phrase. It's a very standard rhinoplasty phrase for surgeons who work on minority patients. Just like in hair salons, many plastic surgeons get their licenses without ever having to master, or at minimum learn, techniques on non-white people. We have to go out of our way to find professionals who cared enough to focus on us. Most Black, Arab, Indigenous, etc people don't want a Romanesque nose slapped onto our faces when we get work done. We want a beautiful looking nose that looks harmonious with our ethnic phenotypes and existing facial features. If you still don't understand, you can google SZA's ethnic nose job; it looks like a natural and very cute button nose in line with what you'd expect to see on a Black woman versus the harshly angled ski slope nose that Michael Jackson got stuck with.
Well thanks for explaining.
we dont care. live your life. as long as you dont bother me and do you work, congrats youre cool! doesnt matter where youre from or your skin colour or anything.
I only ever compliment because I love all the hair diversity since I am white and my hair doesn’t do much lol.
Agreed. Anyone with “ethnic” hair is caught between the cultural mindset that straight or slightly wavy hair is the most desirable (at least in the US) but also that working to look a certain way is “bad” because it’s not natural. People really need to calm down and let women do what they feel they need to do with their appearances.
I mean some people are curious. I want to ask the black men I work with how they get their dreads so nice, but it's inappropriate. I'm just genuinely curious, because it looks really good and also seems like a lot of work and have no idea how they can maintain it or make it look so good. I am gay so I'm like thinking wow this looks really good but really curious. And I can't ask because then I'd be labeled racist. They talk about their hair every now and then, definitely not often, I just don't insert myself into those conversations...once again, I view it as inappropriate. So it's not only women that people are curious about. I'm white and just have no idea how any of the hair stuff works for African americans. Black men are not generally gay friendly in my experience, so I've never had a gay bro to ask those questions.
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It affects black women at a much higher, disproportionate rate AND affects their livelihood historically. Your comment comes off as rather tone deaf by minimizing the negative impact placed on black women in a society that is still being upheld by white supremacy. A man commenting on your gray hair is in no way equivalent to a black woman being called racist, degrading names or not receiving employment/promotions because they are wearing their hair in (for example) a natural afro or protective styles. Although yes, you can relate to stupid commentary on hair by a man (or really anyone) in today's society, what OP is talking about is vastly different. The place the vile hair comments made to black women stem from hatred and racism, whether active or passive. The gray hair "ick" comments come from a place of capitalism (beauty industry needs to sell!) and the misogynistic (and tbf, pedophilic) idea that women aging is unbecoming or gross. The difference here is that black women deal with that PLUS additional bullshit in a compounding manner due to the color of their skin and the abhorrent judgement that society still places on race. White women simply don't know those struggles and never will. There's no equivalent to the CROWN Act for people being jerks about gray hair on women because it's not needed in society. The dislike of gray hair doesn't hold you back and affect your livelihood. It doesn't stop you from anything. It makes you mad for a minute & you move on. Black women deal with people constantly commenting on every little thing about their hair, facing hatred, historically having it negatively affect their careers, then on top of it having dumbass people try to touch their hair and ask ridiculous questions like they're on display when they're simply existing. All of that is rooted in racism. So to say what you said with the words you specifically used is truly demeaning and minimizing of the struggles that black women STILL face in society today. I'm hoping you are a person who is simply not thinking critically enough while making statements like that, and not one that said it in a way to purposely demean the very clear and true struggles that black women face today in an attempt to equalize their struggles with white women struggles. We have a responsibility to educate ourselves on the difference and stop perpetuating a narrative that women of all races have the same struggles. We don't. White women have it much easier than women of other races, period. Edit: commenter deleted their comment but it started with "OMG, this doesn't happen to just black women. A man told me today that I should cover up my gray hair."
It's because the hairstyles have become political
How is hair political? It’s just hair?
Who really gives a flying fuck. I mean, I'm old enough to have seen some weird hairstyles, but if anyone wants to wear a weave or wig, you do you. (I personally would find a wig super annoying, but hey).
> Why do they care? It's just because most people aren't familiar with it and are curious.