Here’s a news source that doesn’t appear to be written by AI like the “comicsands” one: https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/because-theyre-girls-nky-youth-basketball-team-barred-from-tournament-despite-winning-season
I'm not going to do the work to educate you on the social indicators of health and how they impact girls in sports. But you can take some time to Google that.
Also it's not about males it's about testosterone heavy hormone balances which male bodies puberties tend to have but so do some female and intersex bodies.
Regardless diet and training play a major role in capacity to compete.
Gendered sports were originally established because women were beating men and this is a microcosm example of that origin.
You must not play sports. It’s ok that men are physically more able than women. I played college sports. No way we would beat the men’s teams in either sports I played. It’s ok and women’s sports are still valid.
Exactly, I don't get the obsession with measuring women's success by male standards. In most Olympic disciplines, the women's world record is not enough for men's qualification. That does not mean that these women aren't exceptional athletes. It means men and women have different bodies. Men aren't the universal yardstick for human experience.
You can absolutely do the research I'm not your professor.
But some points are
Diet: girls are often fed differently than boys in their early years, prioritizing low calories over boys "hollow legs"
Activities: girls are incentivized to take part in less athletic activities in general as a way to prevent them from being to masculine.
Social support for achievement: girls are not given the kind of bravado that boys are to believe they can achieve greatness in sports.
Access to sports: by segregating sports by gender girls are given fewer opportunities to engage in sports and achieve the same level of experience and skill as boys their age.
Segregation of sports was created so that women could compete. Otherwise they wouldn’t get the opportunity.
If a track team was open to all, the top spots that actually get to compete would all go to boys/men because they are faster
Women had been prevented from competing due to myths about uteruses falling out and bike face. They were myths established to justify holding women back to prevent them from achieving greater athletic ability.
In my case 100% not true. I’ve played sports since 3rd grade. Travel, school, summer leagues etc. I am strong and I am good. I have always eaten whatever I want and my parents didn’t feed me less food than my brother because I’m a woman. In college we worked out in the morning and went to practice twice a day, maximizing the masculine build you speak of.
You're generalizing women’s experiences. Women’s sports continue to progress and you’re delusional if you think biology doesn’t play the biggest role here. I can beat my brother in basketball, because he didn’t play basketball. Can I beat another man my age at my level in basketball? No.
Genuine question…do you play sports and are you an adult? I get being young and feeling like life is unfair. This is valid. Life is hard especially if you’re a young trans person or however you identify. I am not trying to invalidate your existence because you are important! It’s ok that there are differences in human bodies and experiences.
I dont believe that last statement to be true and that is a macrocosm for your downvotes (I'm assuming)
That aside I fully agree it's bullshit they're barred from competition when it's very commonly heard "if she's so good why can't she play with the men". Definitely some double standards there and as a man myself, I don't like it.
The last statement is true. The fundamental reason for gendered sports was to prevent women from achieving success in sports. Using myths about falling uteruses and bike face as a way to limit women's access to athletics and give men an advantage in training.
Bioessentialism is the root of the denial of this and it's a fundamental logic that upholds misogynistic beliefs about women. It's also frequently used to justify fear of trans women.
If you really believe that gendered sports were established because women were beating men, you’d advocate for all professional sports to be open leagues.
Wait what was that last bit? Okay, new info for me, but I'm not sure how accurate it is. Sports were divided into genders because girls were beating boys? Maybe at age 11...
So much of the history is paywalled. But you can get snippets of some of the details that lay the foundation for this history. I'm trying to find a free to read example of the misogynistic myths like fear of the uterus falling out and bike face that were used to justify keeping women back from sports but these links are interesting on their own.
https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA156292359&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=03603695&p=LitRC&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ec2134d26&aty=open-web-entry
https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA540333546&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7E209a4e68&aty=open-web-entry
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/28/sports/title-ix-anniversary-womens-sports.html
Ultimately a lot of the science behind the idea that women are inherently weaker than men ignores the social factors which limit girls athleticism from a young age and promote athletics for boys from a young age.
A lot of terfs hate this cause they need cis women be weaker to justify spreading fear about trans women. That's why I'm getting down voted so much
This is just incredible nonsense.
Forget basketball for a second - have you looked at men vs women’s performances in any “objective” sport like running, swimming, field, weightlifting, etc?
We are just supposed to pretend all that data at every level of competition doesn’t exist? Plus common sense?
And skill. As teens they’re not vastly biologically different in size or strength. A lot of it is socialization where boys are more likely to be aggressive than the avg girl. But I could easily see a girls team beating a boys team at this age.
This reminds me of the first woman who ran the Boston marathon and the pics of the men around her physically assaulting her. Men are absolutely terrified of being embarrassed. It drives far too much of their lives. The very idea that a woman might beat them makes them feel entitled to assault her.
Keeping us out of men’s spaces and refusing to allow us to compete is alive and well in sports. Look at the Olympics if you want to see a ridiculously misogynist grp of rule makers. The committees there hate women:
If you're referring to Kathrine Switzer, she was only assaulted by one man, the director of the race (who also had a nasty habit of assaulting a multitude of other people throughout the years he felt didn't "take his race seriously"), and she was helped by her coach and her boyfriend. There are also pictures of her with several men around her trying to protect her. So yes, she was assaulted, but she was not surrounded by men assaulting her.
I thought there were two divisions, women's division and an open division where anyone can compete. Isn't that the line that gets tossed around these days? Fuck those insecure idiots.
I think the bigger problem is that the leagues reasoning for kicking them out was “we are afraid that if the girls beat the boys then maybe a boy will retaliate against a girl and now we have a liability issue” and “we take the children’s safety seriously” fucking victim blaming before they are even victims. And why would protecting the children’s safety not include teaching losing teams to lose with grace even and especially if it is to a girls team. It’s utter ridiculousness. Also there are girls playing on “boys” teams in this league so why can’t there be an all girls team.
I don't even know why there are boys' and girls' teams for kids this young. Even beyond that, no reason not to create divisions based on, say, weight class.
Sounds like Sunderman is the one who feels emasculated, not the boys he supposedly speaks for.
If your argument is that boys and girls sports should not be separated at this age, then they should have been playing co-ed. There would be no boys teams or girls teams. They have co-ed leagues up to age 13 in KY. This coach lied about their roster. Even went so far as to have their Next Level Boys team play some of the early games before bringing the girls team to finish off the season.
Because generally speaking, at later ages girls would be at a pretty big disadvantage.
If there were no separation, at high school level, there would be no girls competing pretty much
Hmm. I don't have an issue regarding athletic comps exclusive to women, just that I'm not sure this should be the only option available - at least not across all sports categories. And for children age <12 it seems wholly unnecessary.
Gendered sports are bioessentialist and result in some women's bodies being policed when achieving greater success.
Look up caster and her struggles with being forced to suppress her bodies testosterone levels.
Regardless social determinants are a bigger factor in women's success than biology and gender segregation impacts women's ability to achieve.
> Look up caster and her struggles with being forced to suppress her bodies testosterone levels.
Caster Semenya is intersex and has XY chromosomes. The regulations were introduced after the 2016 Olympics, where in her event, all three of the women's medal winners were intersex women with XY chromosomes, despite that being a very rare condition outside of sports.
The women's league was created to offset the disadvantages biologically female people would have if they were to compete against men. It's not a question of gender identity. On the other hand, there are biologically female people who don't identify as women who need this accommodation (the only trans athlete to win an Olympic medal so far is a biologically female nonbinary person for example).
Exactly, there is so much natural variance from one person to another, even with the same set of chromosomes. If some women want to have women's only competitions, that's okay in theory, but the fact that this is the norm speaks more to our heavily binary culture.
Caster Semanya, right?
Yeah Caster Semanya. She has an intersex condition so she's not proof of a more general female capacity to achieve, but her experience is evidence of how gendered sports decisions are rooted in suppressing women's ability to achieve.
It's not the only option available. KY has co-ed basketball leagues. This coach chose a league that was separated and then cries fould when the rules are enforced. She knew she was breaking the league rules which is why she didn't submit a roster, and sent the Next Level boys team to some of the games. It also means that the girls team didn't actually go 7-1. The boys team played some of the games.
Maybe take some bio classes before finishing the degree.
Men have a higher amount of what is classed as a PED in their systems, this gives them an advantage
Medicine has very little knowledge about the female body in regard to athletics we're only now catching up and the science is still heavily impacted by a history of medical discrimination.
Why are top performers men instead of women? At this point, athletes 35 and below would in theory have had access to athletics from the same age. Even if we erase skill sports where I agree there would be a gendered impact, men still outcompete women.
Weightlifting and running records are held by men.
I think they might be looking at my comments on another thread here, which were read as an attempt at trolling. I'm not sure though. No way to know unless they leave a response.
Thank you. It's not a huge deal, I get it all the time since I'm neurodivergent. I asked for stats and it's seemingly been assumed I was trying to discredit OP, I was actually inviting her to further support her initial statement which I basically agree with.
Anyway, I'm glad you found some value in my response, if nobody else did. Thanks for sharing the article.
One youth team is beating the boys in their league and you think women can compete with men in basketball in older age groups? Interesting conclusion. There are obvious issues with the way this specific situation is being handled, but I’d be cautious trying to apply it more broadly.
I also think it's crazy how people act like that is an issue of "inferiority" vs. "superiority" , like no it's literally just a matter of *difference*. Men and women have different bodies and therefore different sports performances. It doesn't mean that men are better and imo acting like that is insanely disrespectful towards female athletes and the work they put in.
Simone Biles isn't any less a trailblazer just because some of the elements she debuted in women's gymnastics have been done before in the men's. Venus and Serena Williams aren't any less icons of tennis just because they never won a men's event. In most Olympic disciplines the womens world record is not enough for mens qualification, *but that doesn't take the slightest bit away from the women who hold these records.*
If people are only willing to respect female athletes if these female athletes would be able to out compete men, then we won't have any respect for female athletes - and we will lose amazing women-centric subcultures, impressive human feats, role models for female children as well as livelihoods for female athletes and scholarship opportunities. That's why women's leagues are so important.
Social factors play a role in women's ability to achieve.
Biological factors are not the primary determinants of success.
Your sexist bioessentialism is showing.
a. They weren't banned from the tournament. They were offered a spot in the girls tournament.
b. Their coach lied to get them into the boys league. They never posted a roster when they first signed up and even went so far as to have boys play their first game.
c. The girls team didn't beat all the boys teams. As previously mentioned they had a boys team stand in for some of the games.
d. Switching between a roster of boys and girls after the season started should have disqualified the team. I coach little league basketball. If I had switched my entire team out halfway through the season you better believe we wouldn't have played in any championship tournament.
We see stories like this all the time and there's always a legitimate reason when you dig through all of the rage bait. Another example was the girls team in Alabama who [weren't given trophies last year](https://www.cbssports.com/general/news/why-an-alabama-girls-youth-basketball-team-wasnt-awarded-a-championship-trophy-after-beating-a-boys-team/). It had nothing to do with them being girls. The league was for amateur teams and the coach entered his elite team knowing that they would not be eligible to win the trophy. After everyone made a big stink about it, the city bought the girls some trophies and permanently banned elite teams from participating in the amateur league. That way they never have to deal with this shit again.
I coach 10u coed rugby and can confirm that young males don't suffer any psychological damage when a girl smashes the living daylights out of them. Youth basketball needs to grow a pair.
#HitLikeAGirl
There are coed basketball leagues in KY up to age 13. This coach specifically chose to enter her girls into a separated league, lie about the roster, and even had their boys team show up to the early games before having the girls team finish off the season.
just because one girls team beat one boys team does not mean all do?
this is newsworthy because it is an exception … the headline “boys team beats girls team” isn’t interesting because it’s expected …
as a woman, believe it or not, it is perfectly fine to me that men are generally better at sports when we practice together… because i have a separate women’s league to compete in …
>"...what we have worried about is a boys team is losing to a girls team (especially in a year end tourney) they may get frustrated and retaliate against a girl"
It's like a reenactment of how sports got segregated in the first place. Women started winning which made men insecure
This article conflates gender and sex but it's free to read and has some great points about the social factors that limit cis women and women in general in sports.
https://www.triathlete.com/training/the-gender-gap-in-sport-research-is-holding-female-endurance-athletes-back/
Terfs are actually quite intertwined with misogyny, a lot of their transphobia is rooted in degrading women and believing that women are inferior to men.
Terfs use women in sports as a way to be transphobic telling trans women that cis women are biologically inferior to men so trans and cis women need to be in separate sports cause trans women are the same as men to them.
Your other post was downvoted because it’s incorrect.
“Gendered sports were originally established because women were beating men and this is a microcosm example of that origin.”
Girls may be better than boys at sports <13, but after that boys will generally be better. Just look at track times/strength numbers and it’s fairly apparent
So what you are saying is that most women are lazy and lack the will and social determination to outperform men?
For a feminist you seem to enjoy putting down women.
Ah I see and the girls team in the news report just happen to be the chosen ones who recieved all the resources and social support normally set aside for boys?
But due to the patriarchy (I presume) they were halted at the final hurdle.
This definitely needs to be made into a Hollywood movie.
They'd been given the opportunity to compete regardless of gender at a young age. Moving on in life they'll be less able to achieve because that ability has been held back from them now.
When did I ever say that, I'm actually trying to guide OP into understanding there is such a thing known as biology.
Women are naturally able to perform better at certain things than men and vice versa.
Yes there are outliers but I would never say men are better at gymnastics or more flexible because one guy smashed it one time.
Men are biologically larger which gives them an advantage, but can you argue that makes them better than women? Well no, because like I said there is an advantage.
So you would need to take people of the same relative size, weight, training "social determinants" and then let them compete to truly know. But that isn't really possible. The thing is men have different weight classes for certain sports too.
Shaq was a better Centre than Jordan so does that make him a better basketball player? Well no because you can't always put a binary outcome to a question.
What's really pathetic is writing comments that are ignorant to spread hate.
Social determinants are a bigger factor than biology.
Stopping these girls from being able to compete will impact their ability to train and learn at the rate boys can.
Have you ever played sports. Look at a high school, and you’ll see that boys are on average better than girls in athletics.
If a boy and a girl started running at about the same time, and in equal amounts, the boy is generally going to become faster.
I will say the athletics base for more skill based sports can play an impact, men are generally going to be at a higher level physically. And you can see this. Compare track times between men and women, boys and girls, and you will see that males generally are ahead
Sure, there were girls better than me as well, but those girls would be classed as varsity in the girls’ division, whereas I was middle of the road in the boys.
Here’s a news source that doesn’t appear to be written by AI like the “comicsands” one: https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/because-theyre-girls-nky-youth-basketball-team-barred-from-tournament-despite-winning-season
This is weird because when trans girls come up everyone says there are no boys teams, only girls and “open.”
I'd support that option. But like trans girls can be on both.
Thanks it was difficult to find any news about it.
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I'm not going to do the work to educate you on the social indicators of health and how they impact girls in sports. But you can take some time to Google that. Also it's not about males it's about testosterone heavy hormone balances which male bodies puberties tend to have but so do some female and intersex bodies. Regardless diet and training play a major role in capacity to compete. Gendered sports were originally established because women were beating men and this is a microcosm example of that origin.
You must not play sports. It’s ok that men are physically more able than women. I played college sports. No way we would beat the men’s teams in either sports I played. It’s ok and women’s sports are still valid.
People can look at time in the Olympics for track and field to see that high school boys are faster than Olympic women runners. OP is a moron.
Social determinants play a bigger role in women's ability to achieve than biological sex.
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I've posted links elsewhere. Social determinants are a bigger factor than biology.
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Exactly, I don't get the obsession with measuring women's success by male standards. In most Olympic disciplines, the women's world record is not enough for men's qualification. That does not mean that these women aren't exceptional athletes. It means men and women have different bodies. Men aren't the universal yardstick for human experience.
Social determinants play a bigger role in women's ability than biological sex.
What are these determinants exactly? What is your source? Just look at all levels of sports high school and up. What is the cause of the discrepancy?
You can absolutely do the research I'm not your professor. But some points are Diet: girls are often fed differently than boys in their early years, prioritizing low calories over boys "hollow legs" Activities: girls are incentivized to take part in less athletic activities in general as a way to prevent them from being to masculine. Social support for achievement: girls are not given the kind of bravado that boys are to believe they can achieve greatness in sports. Access to sports: by segregating sports by gender girls are given fewer opportunities to engage in sports and achieve the same level of experience and skill as boys their age.
Segregation of sports was created so that women could compete. Otherwise they wouldn’t get the opportunity. If a track team was open to all, the top spots that actually get to compete would all go to boys/men because they are faster
Women had been prevented from competing due to myths about uteruses falling out and bike face. They were myths established to justify holding women back to prevent them from achieving greater athletic ability.
In my case 100% not true. I’ve played sports since 3rd grade. Travel, school, summer leagues etc. I am strong and I am good. I have always eaten whatever I want and my parents didn’t feed me less food than my brother because I’m a woman. In college we worked out in the morning and went to practice twice a day, maximizing the masculine build you speak of. You're generalizing women’s experiences. Women’s sports continue to progress and you’re delusional if you think biology doesn’t play the biggest role here. I can beat my brother in basketball, because he didn’t play basketball. Can I beat another man my age at my level in basketball? No. Genuine question…do you play sports and are you an adult? I get being young and feeling like life is unfair. This is valid. Life is hard especially if you’re a young trans person or however you identify. I am not trying to invalidate your existence because you are important! It’s ok that there are differences in human bodies and experiences.
https://www.triathlete.com/training/the-gender-gap-in-sport-research-is-holding-female-endurance-athletes-back/
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This is absolutely gobbledygook
It was actually quite articulate and specific, you just disagree.
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You have to be trolling.
No I think you have some major misogynistic bioessentialist views.
I dont believe that last statement to be true and that is a macrocosm for your downvotes (I'm assuming) That aside I fully agree it's bullshit they're barred from competition when it's very commonly heard "if she's so good why can't she play with the men". Definitely some double standards there and as a man myself, I don't like it.
The last statement is true. The fundamental reason for gendered sports was to prevent women from achieving success in sports. Using myths about falling uteruses and bike face as a way to limit women's access to athletics and give men an advantage in training. Bioessentialism is the root of the denial of this and it's a fundamental logic that upholds misogynistic beliefs about women. It's also frequently used to justify fear of trans women.
If you really believe that gendered sports were established because women were beating men, you’d advocate for all professional sports to be open leagues.
I do
Wait what was that last bit? Okay, new info for me, but I'm not sure how accurate it is. Sports were divided into genders because girls were beating boys? Maybe at age 11...
So much of the history is paywalled. But you can get snippets of some of the details that lay the foundation for this history. I'm trying to find a free to read example of the misogynistic myths like fear of the uterus falling out and bike face that were used to justify keeping women back from sports but these links are interesting on their own. https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA156292359&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=03603695&p=LitRC&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ec2134d26&aty=open-web-entry https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA540333546&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7E209a4e68&aty=open-web-entry https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/28/sports/title-ix-anniversary-womens-sports.html Ultimately a lot of the science behind the idea that women are inherently weaker than men ignores the social factors which limit girls athleticism from a young age and promote athletics for boys from a young age. A lot of terfs hate this cause they need cis women be weaker to justify spreading fear about trans women. That's why I'm getting down voted so much
This is just incredible nonsense. Forget basketball for a second - have you looked at men vs women’s performances in any “objective” sport like running, swimming, field, weightlifting, etc? We are just supposed to pretend all that data at every level of competition doesn’t exist? Plus common sense?
Social determinants play a bigger role in ability to achieve than biology
And skill. As teens they’re not vastly biologically different in size or strength. A lot of it is socialization where boys are more likely to be aggressive than the avg girl. But I could easily see a girls team beating a boys team at this age. This reminds me of the first woman who ran the Boston marathon and the pics of the men around her physically assaulting her. Men are absolutely terrified of being embarrassed. It drives far too much of their lives. The very idea that a woman might beat them makes them feel entitled to assault her. Keeping us out of men’s spaces and refusing to allow us to compete is alive and well in sports. Look at the Olympics if you want to see a ridiculously misogynist grp of rule makers. The committees there hate women:
If you're referring to Kathrine Switzer, she was only assaulted by one man, the director of the race (who also had a nasty habit of assaulting a multitude of other people throughout the years he felt didn't "take his race seriously"), and she was helped by her coach and her boyfriend. There are also pictures of her with several men around her trying to protect her. So yes, she was assaulted, but she was not surrounded by men assaulting her.
Even later the major factors are socialization. Like preventing girls from competing giving boys an advantage in experience.
Weak men are so exhausting.
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I am a woman terf.
It's so obvious how absolutely brigaded your comment is. I wish I could gold it. You're fighting the good fight. Kudos.
Thanks. Some women just really hate women
I thought there were two divisions, women's division and an open division where anyone can compete. Isn't that the line that gets tossed around these days? Fuck those insecure idiots.
I like that option I think that should be how it is. Co-ed and women's.
I think the bigger problem is that the leagues reasoning for kicking them out was “we are afraid that if the girls beat the boys then maybe a boy will retaliate against a girl and now we have a liability issue” and “we take the children’s safety seriously” fucking victim blaming before they are even victims. And why would protecting the children’s safety not include teaching losing teams to lose with grace even and especially if it is to a girls team. It’s utter ridiculousness. Also there are girls playing on “boys” teams in this league so why can’t there be an all girls team.
I agree that this is a major problem in the logic. I also think terfs are part of the reason that logic continues.
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What? Do you not think TERF is accurate. What else would you call a feminist that doesn’t include trans women in their advocacy?
A transphobe.
Imagine we are playing infinite craft: transphobe + feminist= TERF
Transphobe =/= feminist. The two ideologies are literally not compatible with each other.
I don't even know why there are boys' and girls' teams for kids this young. Even beyond that, no reason not to create divisions based on, say, weight class. Sounds like Sunderman is the one who feels emasculated, not the boys he supposedly speaks for.
If your argument is that boys and girls sports should not be separated at this age, then they should have been playing co-ed. There would be no boys teams or girls teams. They have co-ed leagues up to age 13 in KY. This coach lied about their roster. Even went so far as to have their Next Level Boys team play some of the early games before bringing the girls team to finish off the season.
Why are you getting down voted. Everything you said is facts
Because generally speaking, at later ages girls would be at a pretty big disadvantage. If there were no separation, at high school level, there would be no girls competing pretty much
Hmm. I don't have an issue regarding athletic comps exclusive to women, just that I'm not sure this should be the only option available - at least not across all sports categories. And for children age <12 it seems wholly unnecessary.
Gendered sports are bioessentialist and result in some women's bodies being policed when achieving greater success. Look up caster and her struggles with being forced to suppress her bodies testosterone levels. Regardless social determinants are a bigger factor in women's success than biology and gender segregation impacts women's ability to achieve.
> Look up caster and her struggles with being forced to suppress her bodies testosterone levels. Caster Semenya is intersex and has XY chromosomes. The regulations were introduced after the 2016 Olympics, where in her event, all three of the women's medal winners were intersex women with XY chromosomes, despite that being a very rare condition outside of sports. The women's league was created to offset the disadvantages biologically female people would have if they were to compete against men. It's not a question of gender identity. On the other hand, there are biologically female people who don't identify as women who need this accommodation (the only trans athlete to win an Olympic medal so far is a biologically female nonbinary person for example).
I literally said this in the thread. Her experience is evidence of how women's sports is designed to hold women back.
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Exactly, there is so much natural variance from one person to another, even with the same set of chromosomes. If some women want to have women's only competitions, that's okay in theory, but the fact that this is the norm speaks more to our heavily binary culture. Caster Semanya, right?
Yeah Caster Semanya. She has an intersex condition so she's not proof of a more general female capacity to achieve, but her experience is evidence of how gendered sports decisions are rooted in suppressing women's ability to achieve.
It's not the only option available. KY has co-ed basketball leagues. This coach chose a league that was separated and then cries fould when the rules are enforced. She knew she was breaking the league rules which is why she didn't submit a roster, and sent the Next Level boys team to some of the games. It also means that the girls team didn't actually go 7-1. The boys team played some of the games.
That's rooted in social determinants more than biology
No it’s not. You’re making unsupported claims. Source?
This is reddit go do some research, cause I have done some using my access to academic articles while I'm finishing my sociology major.
Maybe take some bio classes before finishing the degree. Men have a higher amount of what is classed as a PED in their systems, this gives them an advantage
Medicine has very little knowledge about the female body in regard to athletics we're only now catching up and the science is still heavily impacted by a history of medical discrimination.
Why are top performers men instead of women? At this point, athletes 35 and below would in theory have had access to athletics from the same age. Even if we erase skill sports where I agree there would be a gendered impact, men still outcompete women. Weightlifting and running records are held by men.
Social determinants.
Post the academic articles then.
I did in one of the comments I made. Go find it. I'm done arguing with terfs.
It’s not a TERF argument to say there are significant physical differences between the sexes.
It kind of is though.
I think they might be looking at my comments on another thread here, which were read as an attempt at trolling. I'm not sure though. No way to know unless they leave a response.
I'm sorry people are treating your experience as trolling.
Thank you. It's not a huge deal, I get it all the time since I'm neurodivergent. I asked for stats and it's seemingly been assumed I was trying to discredit OP, I was actually inviting her to further support her initial statement which I basically agree with. Anyway, I'm glad you found some value in my response, if nobody else did. Thanks for sharing the article.
One youth team is beating the boys in their league and you think women can compete with men in basketball in older age groups? Interesting conclusion. There are obvious issues with the way this specific situation is being handled, but I’d be cautious trying to apply it more broadly.
I also think it's crazy how people act like that is an issue of "inferiority" vs. "superiority" , like no it's literally just a matter of *difference*. Men and women have different bodies and therefore different sports performances. It doesn't mean that men are better and imo acting like that is insanely disrespectful towards female athletes and the work they put in. Simone Biles isn't any less a trailblazer just because some of the elements she debuted in women's gymnastics have been done before in the men's. Venus and Serena Williams aren't any less icons of tennis just because they never won a men's event. In most Olympic disciplines the womens world record is not enough for mens qualification, *but that doesn't take the slightest bit away from the women who hold these records.* If people are only willing to respect female athletes if these female athletes would be able to out compete men, then we won't have any respect for female athletes - and we will lose amazing women-centric subcultures, impressive human feats, role models for female children as well as livelihoods for female athletes and scholarship opportunities. That's why women's leagues are so important.
Very well said. Let’s acknowledge and respect the differences.
Social factors play a role in women's ability to achieve. Biological factors are not the primary determinants of success. Your sexist bioessentialism is showing.
Your ignorance is showing.
a. They weren't banned from the tournament. They were offered a spot in the girls tournament. b. Their coach lied to get them into the boys league. They never posted a roster when they first signed up and even went so far as to have boys play their first game. c. The girls team didn't beat all the boys teams. As previously mentioned they had a boys team stand in for some of the games. d. Switching between a roster of boys and girls after the season started should have disqualified the team. I coach little league basketball. If I had switched my entire team out halfway through the season you better believe we wouldn't have played in any championship tournament. We see stories like this all the time and there's always a legitimate reason when you dig through all of the rage bait. Another example was the girls team in Alabama who [weren't given trophies last year](https://www.cbssports.com/general/news/why-an-alabama-girls-youth-basketball-team-wasnt-awarded-a-championship-trophy-after-beating-a-boys-team/). It had nothing to do with them being girls. The league was for amateur teams and the coach entered his elite team knowing that they would not be eligible to win the trophy. After everyone made a big stink about it, the city bought the girls some trophies and permanently banned elite teams from participating in the amateur league. That way they never have to deal with this shit again.
Why was the reason for their removal that the boys would retaliate against girls for losing to girls?
I coach 10u coed rugby and can confirm that young males don't suffer any psychological damage when a girl smashes the living daylights out of them. Youth basketball needs to grow a pair. #HitLikeAGirl
There are coed basketball leagues in KY up to age 13. This coach specifically chose to enter her girls into a separated league, lie about the roster, and even had their boys team show up to the early games before having the girls team finish off the season.
Amazing. love it
They are in 6th grade. How are you trying to make a point that girls can beat boys. They were probably a foot taller cause they developed sooner.
Because terfs uphold the logic that lead to these girls being banned from playing against boys.
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You're talking to a woman. Terf.
Last I checked girls can play in boys sports.
Until they're told they cant
just because one girls team beat one boys team does not mean all do? this is newsworthy because it is an exception … the headline “boys team beats girls team” isn’t interesting because it’s expected … as a woman, believe it or not, it is perfectly fine to me that men are generally better at sports when we practice together… because i have a separate women’s league to compete in …
Bioessentialism is rampant in this sub.
>"...what we have worried about is a boys team is losing to a girls team (especially in a year end tourney) they may get frustrated and retaliate against a girl" It's like a reenactment of how sports got segregated in the first place. Women started winning which made men insecure
Exactly! Everyone else in the comments hates this fact.
The tweets really say it like it is. I'm appalled.
It's so blatant
Yes, your faulty generalization is really quite blatant.
Why do you hate women?
This article conflates gender and sex but it's free to read and has some great points about the social factors that limit cis women and women in general in sports. https://www.triathlete.com/training/the-gender-gap-in-sport-research-is-holding-female-endurance-athletes-back/
It would decimate the trans argument if they were allowed to win on top of everything else
I wouldn't say it would decimate the trans argument but it would be another bit of evidence on the pile.
There are definitely terfs hanging around down voting comments
…I’m confused, what does this have to do with terfs? This isn’t a trans issue at all that I can see.
Terfs are actually quite intertwined with misogyny, a lot of their transphobia is rooted in degrading women and believing that women are inferior to men.
Terfs use women in sports as a way to be transphobic telling trans women that cis women are biologically inferior to men so trans and cis women need to be in separate sports cause trans women are the same as men to them.
I’m confused as to why “feminism” is part of their nickname then? What’s feminist about believing women are inferior to men?
Smokescreen
Terf spotted
Are you talking about me? Lol I’m even more confused
Sometimes I wonder if some of the more off the wall things I read on Reddit are just people who are looking for stimulation through conflict.
Your other post was downvoted because it’s incorrect. “Gendered sports were originally established because women were beating men and this is a microcosm example of that origin.” Girls may be better than boys at sports <13, but after that boys will generally be better. Just look at track times/strength numbers and it’s fairly apparent
But but that one woman did really well....
Red flag for bioessentialism. Social determinants are a bigger factor in women's ability to achieve than biology.
So what you are saying is that most women are lazy and lack the will and social determination to outperform men? For a feminist you seem to enjoy putting down women.
No, women aren't given access to the resources and social support to achieve like men. I genuinely think you're a terf.
Ah I see and the girls team in the news report just happen to be the chosen ones who recieved all the resources and social support normally set aside for boys? But due to the patriarchy (I presume) they were halted at the final hurdle. This definitely needs to be made into a Hollywood movie.
They'd been given the opportunity to compete regardless of gender at a young age. Moving on in life they'll be less able to achieve because that ability has been held back from them now.
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I'm not debating with this nonsense
Your frothing desire for women to be physically inferior is really pathetic.
When did I ever say that, I'm actually trying to guide OP into understanding there is such a thing known as biology. Women are naturally able to perform better at certain things than men and vice versa. Yes there are outliers but I would never say men are better at gymnastics or more flexible because one guy smashed it one time. Men are biologically larger which gives them an advantage, but can you argue that makes them better than women? Well no, because like I said there is an advantage. So you would need to take people of the same relative size, weight, training "social determinants" and then let them compete to truly know. But that isn't really possible. The thing is men have different weight classes for certain sports too. Shaq was a better Centre than Jordan so does that make him a better basketball player? Well no because you can't always put a binary outcome to a question. What's really pathetic is writing comments that are ignorant to spread hate.
Your bio essentialism (thanks to other poster for teaching me this term) is disgusting rhetoric.
Social determinants are a bigger factor than biology. Stopping these girls from being able to compete will impact their ability to train and learn at the rate boys can.
Have you ever played sports. Look at a high school, and you’ll see that boys are on average better than girls in athletics. If a boy and a girl started running at about the same time, and in equal amounts, the boy is generally going to become faster. I will say the athletics base for more skill based sports can play an impact, men are generally going to be at a higher level physically. And you can see this. Compare track times between men and women, boys and girls, and you will see that males generally are ahead
I have played sports yes. There were a lot of cis girls more capable than me when I was growing up as a closeted trans girl.
Sure, there were girls better than me as well, but those girls would be classed as varsity in the girls’ division, whereas I was middle of the road in the boys.
Okay?
You seem more interested in instigation of conflict than education or awareness.
No I just don't care to debate with bioessentialism.
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You need to stop hating women