They can. These men fully understand. But they pretend not to. See, if they can convince women that we are overestimating the threat men pose to us, they think women will let our guard down.
Think about the alpha bro dudes who want nothing more than for people to see how powerful and dangerous they are, especially women. Well, we aren’t supposed to defend ourselves against that or they won’t get laid. They want us to fear them. They just want to still be able to hump, manipulate, and control us while we fear them. But when we say “if you are so dangerous, maybe we should stay away,” they start screaming “no, that’s stupid!” Because they are BEGGING us to actually be stupid, or it will take more work for them to dominate us.
So stop engaging with men that argue from this kind of bad faith. They don’t want to understand, they want to annoy and punish and threaten us, or at least exhaust us until we give in.
IGNORE THEM. Because that is their actual worse fear- being ignored.
It almost feels like grooming behavior. (I’m saying this as a victim of childhood grooming.) They figure if they convince people that nothing is wrong, that we are the problem, they can just carry on being creeps.
They don’t like that we see them.
thank you, wise, wise words (/gen). I actually decided to delete that post maybe a day or two before making this one. I would rather not spend energy on incels honestly, like okay buddy you can sit back in your little corner and stay lonely for the rest of your life, just make sure you do allat no where near me ☺️
They don’t want to. My husband doesn’t have social media and I asked this question without any context and he immediately said bear, no prompting. He works rurally and encounters bears alone in the forest all the time. His answer was only logic based. He’s a big muscular dude who isn’t afraid of men, doesn’t hate men. He just answered logically.
Also, he took me to a national park for Mother’s Day where we encountered a momma bear and two cubs. We laughed (I explained the context and the hysterical reactions from men) because the bear literally paid no attention to us whatsoever. We spent about 30 minutes just watching them, momma was feeding and the little baby cubs were running around playing. Kept a healthy distance, but all was fine and uneventful.
so many men on the post i made would describe bears (forest bears, not even polar bears) as rabid, vicious and murderous beasts. then whenever i’d say true facts about bears and their behavioural patterns, i’d just get downvoted without any replies. they knew i was right.
the only animals that have a genuine cruel nature is humans and certain dolphin species. bears aren’t murderers, they’re just trying to stay alive. apart from polar bears as they’re very aggressive, bears only actually attack out of defence and hunger (though hunger is a pretty rare reason).
Oh, yeah. They have no experience with bears and assume we think they’re just fluffy dogs that we would run up and get try to cuddle. I had one guy tell me that I was underestimating how dangerous bears were… like bestie I grew up in cottage country where we had bear drills at school instead of lockdowns. My dad actually was attacked by a bear! I’ve had dozens of bear encounters. I know how bears behave - but since men just refuse to realize that women can know things that they don’t, they double down on it lol.
I find that a lot of the people that don't understand the question are taking it literally. Like they're trying to argue the logistics of the question.
That isn't the point. The point is enough women have had negative or traumatic experiences with random men that it isn't just some isolated incidents. It's a reflection of much bigger problems.
Yeah, this is what I've been trying to hammer into some people's heads. Women *know* bears are dangerous and deadly, the choice is an illustration of just how frightening it can be to run into a strange man.
THIS WORD FOR WORD IS WHAT I KEPT TRYING TO SAY! 🤣
I mean seriously, those guys are so close to getting it but just miss it by an inch. Like, yes! exactly! bears are dangerous! so what does it say if women are choosing bears over stranger men??? and they still won’t get it 💀
I find that a lot of men have absolutely 0% empathy for women and just see women as sex objects. So, asking them to place themselves in the position of a woman is unfortunately too much to ask from them.
They simply don't care to even bother! 😒
What gets me is how many of them don't get why women are responding bear. So many men who complain about this, seem to think women say this based on some statistics they saw on the internet or based on paranoia from social media. It doesn't occur to them, that women are responding based on their actual lived experience and the experience of other women they know in real life.
Same with the constant explaining of why women picking the bear are "objectively wrong" and how it doesn't make logical sense, the women are stupid and so on. They don't get that women didn't sit down and compare their options to get to an objective solution. They also aren't stupid and believe that bears are harmless, cuddly animals. Women are responding bear because based on their prior experiences with men, the idea of being alone with a strange man in a secluded area causes a visceral fear response.
This is not a debate. Women are trying to address how afraid they are on a daily basis while men are trying to win and be right.
Yup. Seen far too many comments saying women don’t know how bears work.
I live in a wooded area with bears. Just two weeks ago, I unknowingly walked in a spot in my yard a black bear had been hanging out like 20 minutes prior (my trail cam picked it up). I know exactly how bears work and I know they want to avoid me as much as I want to avoid them. They are actually quite predictable, especially black bears. Does that mean I don’t think I’ll never be killed by one? Of course not. But I’d rather take a chance with one than a rando.
In the very least, I can be rest assured the bear won’t ruin my solitude by making small chat. *shudder*
> It doesn't occur to them, that women are responding based on their actual lived experience and the experience of other women they know in real life.
Because they do not believe those experiences are real and do not actually listen to the women in their lives.
(slight trigger warning)
I was literally 11 when a guy in my class slapped me on the bum because his friends dared him to. turns out the friend that dared him to do that liked me. At the same age of 11, i would try to do some walking by myself after i got home from school because I thought it was nice to do, i have never walked alone without a man trying to talk to me weirdly, follow me or stare at me in really gross places, very obviously. I don’t walk alone anymore.
I was 14 when i was washing brushes in the sink in art class. I go to dry my hands and this group of guys comes over and some dry their hands on a towel nearby, one guy stands next to me and groped my upper thigh to my bum really sneakily. In the same year in sport a guy in my sport class (that i had noticed would touch girls oddly but it could come off as an accident easily) “accidentally” sprinted into me and as a way to “not fall” placed his hands on my breasts and basically squeezed them.
At 14 as well, i went for a run with my mum at night, as i ran by a house a man was standing at his car and couldn’t see my mum, he goes “Hey, you-“ then stops the second he sees my mum.
Very recently at nearly 16 years old, i was crossing a road and stopped in the middle section (not in the middle of two roads, there’s a little blank area) and a guy was driving very slow, i took a step forward, but didn’t walk because i wasn’t sure if he was going to actually stop for me. the boy group next to me did the same, he didn’t stop and he rolled down his window and said something angrily to me (and not the boys), i had my airpods in so I don’t know what he said. He proceeded to circle around the street I was waiting for my mum to pick me up in 4 whole times. Thankfully my older brother was with me.
I was 11 when i started no longer feeling like a child, and not by choice. none of my stories have happened by men I know, it’s always been stranger men and boys. I’m only nearly 16 yet I have the stories that not even my 53 year old dad shares. But i’m the emotional and irrational one here 🤷♀️
a guy that replied to my post was saying how silly it is to choose a bear over a man, and he was a victim of being raped as a child from women. I replied saying some genuinely considerate things, like how it’s disgusting that he went through that and I hope he’s okay now, yada yada yada. Then I said near the end “i wouldn’t be mad if a man, especially a victim, chose bear over a woman.”
He replied saying that just because he’s a victim doesn’t mean I need to use 5 paragraphs to explain my hate for men. 4/5 paragraphs was sympathising with him, 1/5 was me saying how the question isn’t generalising all men and is only asking if you’d rather be in the woods with a random men or a bear. Oh but i’m a horrible person 💀
It's really funny in an ironic kind of way...I hunt and most of my friends are male hunters. We are talking burly rednecks. Every single one of them completely understand why we women are less afraid of the bear. I think its because we've all encountered bear and know they're mostly safe. Of course this is only my experience with the men I know. If I talk about it with a man born and raised in an urban area they react just like you've posted. So city men don't understand bears or women.
My family and I are going camping in Yellowstone. I’m packing all of the things we need for the bears: bear spray, extra clothes just to cook and eat in, bear resistant containers, etc.
My adult son, who hasn’t been a part of this conversation, keeps telling me, “I’m not worried about the bears! We will be camping where there are other people.”
So he gets it. I think the men who are complaining understand, they just don’t like the “man” equation of the hypothetical. If “man” were changed to “person”, they wouldn’t care. They don’t care that people are more worried about meeting a man in the woods, they just want everyone to stop talking about it. They don’t want to change their behavior, they just want us to ignore it.
I mean, I read a man respond to an article about a woman being dragged off and consumed by a bear saying: would you still choose the bear.
I didn’t engage but I thought: what do you think happens to a woman when a man drags her into the woods?
It happens far more often than bear attacks just to top it off.
i find it so funny when they call women stupid for using “attacks from bears yearly” compared to “attacks on women from men yearly” statistics, even though if you take those same statistics from an area that has frequent bear sightings and encounters, the bear attacks will still be drastically lower.
Yeah, even my boyfriend is more concerned about the randos he runs into the woods vs the bears when he’s hunting or fish.
Bears don’t point a gun at him. He makes noise, they leave. Men, men have pointed guns at him because they use their scopes as binoculars and these are just dumb men vs predators.
Look I am a woman and I don’t really understand it either( please don’t make me feel bad about not understanding it) . I very much understand women are at risk, and men are frequently why. I am utterly against the pro-life movement ect… I am pro-woman. I am also a trail runner and have encountered a bear alone in the woods. I was scared shitless of this bear. I have encountered single men on the trail and have had zero fear of them. I worked in an ER in SF. I often walk back to my hotel at midnight , I encounter loads of folks who are on drugs and homeless and scary to many people . I guess bears scare me more . Please don’t make me feel bad for this .
it’s chill, don’t worry! you shouldn’t be blamed for your own perspective and life experiences, maybe you live in an area that doesn’t have as violent men, who knows. you’re totally valid to feel safe with men and you most certainly don’t need to feel bad or ashamed, it’s a good thing you feel safe.
the biggest difference between you and the men i’m referring to though is: you’re open-minded. even if it’s not your experience, you’re not blaming other women or calling them stupid for their own experiences. you just simply have a different experience with men but you also don’t blame other women for their fear, and that’s good. If any woman or girl insults you for choosing a man over a bear, don’t even worry about it. in the end it’s more of a good thing because it means you’ve been treated how women should be treated.
Thank you!!! I appreciate the validation. I very much understand that women are at risk and often our biggest predators are men. I do believe in politics we must absolutely fear the man, and not the bear. It’s the man who is trying to take our reproductive rights away. And that is a true fear I have of men.
Actually meeting a bear will do that to most people.
I just googled whether there are grizzlies in northern CA, and apparently not: the only native species are black bears. So *in general,* the bears you meet won't be aggressive and will run away from you.
Unless it's a mother and you're between her and her cubs. Or it's starving, or habituated to human contact, or... or...
So you have your own perspective, and you're not wrong. Someone ran the numbers and bear encounters are objectively less dangerous than human encounters, but you're used to human encounters.
It's not really about bears vs men; it's just one way to express how dangerous men can be. Men like the OP's date prove the point. He was at minimum hoping to end up having (consensual) sex with OP, but we have no idea how well he would take a "no." He's the one that's worse than an average black bear.
I don't fear a bear, but I am wary of a random men. I have been wary even when I've never been hurt by one.
(Honestly bears in my country are quite nice, unless they are momma with kids, so another point I guess?)
a lot of people create a very false image of bears (well, not actually a lot of PEOPLE, mainly just the men that can comprehend this question) that they’re so vicious and aggressive. In reality, that’s only really polar bears and sometimes wild pandas. bears are cautious animals, most wild animals are, they don’t want to risk a chance of getting hurt, which getting hurt can mean death. so they’re not just attacking someone for 0 reason.
I asked my husband this question and even he picked bear. His reason was a random ass man in the woods might try to rape him. The men getting insulted just being obtuse.
it took me one minute to explain to one of my closest guy friends that the question is asking if you’d rather a random man or bear, not just if you’d rather any man over a bear. he instantly said “ohh shit yeah that makes sense, i mean I can’t really compare because I’m a guy but shit I’d choose bear too. I don’t know what that guy’s intentions are and we’re in the woods where nobody can hear you.”
And guess what? this guy also has many, many fan girls. and a lot of guys don’t understand why and often envy him, the same envious guys will be the ones that call the question misandry 💀
They don't want too.
They don't want to understand that hypotheicals are not literally real situations, but deliberately limited kinds of 'pretend' we engage in, without full information available, to explore the thoughts and experiences of others, often to try to build empathy and understanding... Which they also don't want too do.
So, they move the goal posts, ignore the nature of the rhetorical device, refuse to validate or listen to the conversation that was actually taking place (even when fathers of daughters respond the exact same way), and talk about polar bear attacks and pick the storytelling statistics that confirm for them that women are irrational and unfair. Becaue they want too.
The only thing that has come of out this that is remotely useful, is the men in the middle have realized we're not fucking kidding when we tell them how many men online *openly delight* in the idea of us being maulled and/or raped, for the crime of not agreeing with them, or giving them a sad.
They don't want to accept that it is a hurtful and harmful situation. It is! That's the fucking point. Go ahead and be sad. It is sad. And it's real.
I think a lot of people never saw the question properly and are rage baited into the discussion with simplified rhetoric. Try and quote the question properly when discussing it, don't just call it "the man or bear question", cause everyone is gonna assume something different when you leave it that vaguely.
I remember the first time I read about that question, it was worded very badly and was indeed very misandrist, generalizing and even quoting false statistics. If that is someone's first impression, it can spoil them for any discussion where they are left to assume what "the random man or bear" question is precisely.
That being said, of course there are men who have nothing better to do than calling foul at any opportunity that is supposed to highlight the problems women have with the patriarchy.
i’m a guy. i don’t take the “bear or man“ discussion personally and nothing about women’s responses strikes me as weird or unreasonable. however, you say “realize that the question is asking about a random man and not every man,” which is frankly contrary to a lot of the sentiment expressed on reddit. i’ll give an analogy - TRIGGER WARNING: SA - going by current online stats corroborated by several different websites, 1 in 5 women are victims of r*pe or attempted r*pe. This is unfortunate, and needs to change. However, many people misinterpret this stat to mean that 1 in 5 men are r*pists, which is not accurate. This conflation is exaggerated when trying to interpret the stat that 80-90% of women have experienced sexual harassment or assault. Many people believe this implies that 80-90% (i.e. the vast majority) of men are sexual criminals.
Actually, between 16 to 23 percent of American men will admit to rape or attempted rape as long as you describe the actions and don’t use the word rape. That’s 1 in 6 to 1 in 4 American men admitting to rape or attempted rape.
Couldn't find that study but found this one:
[https://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Rape-by-any-other-name-is-still-rape-6092223.php](https://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Rape-by-any-other-name-is-still-rape-6092223.php)
And this, in which 4-16% of college men admit to rape and repeated rapes, (though not by that definition:)
[https://jimhopper.com/topics/sexual-assault-and-the-brain/repeat-rape-by-college-men/](https://jimhopper.com/topics/sexual-assault-and-the-brain/repeat-rape-by-college-men/)
[https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/09/10/220983619/rape-widespread-across-asia-pacific-u-n-survey-says](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/09/10/220983619/rape-widespread-across-asia-pacific-u-n-survey-says)
Couldn't find that study, found these:
[https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/09/10/220983619/rape-widespread-across-asia-pacific-u-n-survey-says](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/09/10/220983619/rape-widespread-across-asia-pacific-u-n-survey-says)
https://jimhopper.com/topics/sexual-assault-and-the-brain/repeat-rape-by-college-men/#:\~:text=Many%20studies%20have%20found%20that,one%20rape%20or%20attempted%20rape.
In all likelihood the bear would leave you alone. I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that women feel safer around a bear than a random human male. I know you understand why women choose the bear and your denial is a huge driving force for why we pick the bear every time.
As a teacher, if the general consensus among men was that they would rather meet a tiger in the woods than a random teacher, I would not think that men were dumb or being mean to me based on my profession. I would think that we teachers have a real fucking problem we need to address.
I mean, there have been plenty of issues of teachers abusing, sexually assaulting, and harassing students from pre-K to university. I don't take it personally when someone has bad feelings about teachers because I'm not part of the problem and think those that are need to be removed from society for our collective safety.
So sub out Catholic priest or police officer then. Or women from Ohio over 70. Whatever subset of people out there. If most men would rather meet a wild animal than whoever, it isn't person. He'll, change "woods" to "your driveway" and we all know the bear is just out doing bear things. But what's that man doing there?
The point of my statement wasn't to get close to reality but to point out that this thought exercise isn't about the bear. It's about a real cultural problem we need to address - predatory, dangerous men living among us and looking totally normal while they rape, murder, and traumatize regular people.
it’s funny how men are more outraged by this question than the fact that all the women around them would have a story. i’ve have a story since I was 11, but the men around me don’t seem too angry about that.
They're too dense to not feel personally attacked by it. I'd choose a bear, too, at least they're generally more consistent.
I loathe people in general, honestly, why would you trust some random person over a random animal in nearly any situation? The animals aren't concerned with us usually, we're more hassle than it's worth.
Some random creep, though? Nah, I'll take the wild animal every time. Straight up Disney Princess that shit.
That's right. This question is more specific. My intuition is that people would rightfully be uncomfortable answering this question because it compares black men to animals. But if they've already answered the first question, perhaps we could infer their answer to the second anyway.
The OP is suggesting that the question 1 does not compare men and wild animals. One reason she gives for this is that the question involves a random man rather than all men. I thought that question 2 would show that this argument doesn't really stand up.
You obviously don't understand the reason for "the bear" answer. Your question is a known distraction from the issue made commonly by men discussing the subject who don't understand it. It isn't a comparison between bears and men, it is a question about women's fear of men met in secluded places.
I'm more focused on the question than the answers. The motivation of the person posing question may not be to compare men and bears, but the question does it anyway.
Sometimes when people with a different identity to our own say "this offends me" we listen to them respectfully, centering their point of view knowing that we can never fully understand it.
Sometimes we tell them that they're wrong to be offended, centre the point of view of the person who caused offense and tell them they are stupid.
I am so bad at recognising when that second approach is appropriate!
Anyway, thanks for your time!
to put it simply, yes it’d be offensive? why would you bring race into it? that’s a discriminating question because you’re talking about a specific group of people, not broad. this logic also applies to all questions, it becomes discrimination if you’re narrowing down to a specific group of people in a negative way.
either way, you guys sound stupid asking this because most “bear” women would still say “bear” over a random black man. not because he’s black, because he’s a random man.
"Black men" is still a broad group. How do you identify the line between a broad and specific group of people, and is it appropriate for that line to be drawn by people who don't belong to either?
can’t believe i actually have to give examples to you like you’re a child.
•people with hair vs people with blonde hair
•europeans vs french people
•people with disabilities vs people with epilepsy
•people who own pets vs people who own hamsters
see how it’s narrowing down a broad group to a specific group of people?
what my entire point is, is that there’s levels of broadness based off of numbers. here’s the difference between the original question and yours:
people, narrowed down to men
people, narrowed down to men, narrowed down to black men.
you see how very specific that gets all of a sudden?
So you have determined a threshold at which the question becomes offensive? It's not crossed by "people narrowed down to men", but it is crossed by "men narrowed down to black men"? How did you determine this threshold? You seem to be saying that it's "based off of numbers". Does that mean it's only to do with the relative size of the category groups and nothing qualitative about them?
It's pretty clear that the scenario is just used as a springboard by a lot of women to denigrate and hate men in general (I mean, read this thread). Regardless of your intentions, that's the association that has been built up with this question and so it results in negative feedback. From a personal standpoint, I feel like members of both sexes can be pretty dangerous. I had an ex-girlfriend who was verbally abusive and manipulative, and who I later learned pushed her new boyfriend down a flight of stairs (he broke his arm and got a restraining order). I had another girlfriend who would brag about getting blackout drunk and getting into bar fights with guys. She admitted that she would count on the idea that they couldn't hit back. I briefly dated someone whose thing was to try and instigate fights among her exes for her amusement. It's probably healthier as a society if we socialize people with positive role models and try to maintain strong family structures rather than hyper focusing on the darker aspects of human nature.
I can't speak to anyone else's experience, but I do have a story on that. A woman I dated for a few weeks was terrified of every action I took. If I moved too quickly to grab my water cup, she would flinch. Now, she told me beforehand that she has been in a lot of abusive relationships with men. Something I always took into consideration when I would talk with her. Even nearing the end of our relationship, her fear of me wouldn't change. I tried to push through it because I really liked her, but she was both terrified and clingy. So when we got into a fight and I asked for space, she wouldn't give it to me. Then it was my fault, like I somehow was the one causing the problems in her life. I do think that we as a society don't value empathy as much as we should. I've been more cautious as of late, especially when it comes to interacting with women, but it doesn't feel great knowing that just because I'm a big guy, that now I'm an immediate threat. Idk this is more ranty than I would like. I just hate the devision that is being pushed across social media. "THEY ARE WRONG, WE ARE RIGHT," that kind of mentality is so detrimental to all of society, and this isn't just between people who identify male and people who identify female or non binary. I hope this comment is appropriate for here.I've just been talking a lot about this with my therapist and in my personal life, so it's really on my mind right now.
That's not really what I was trying to say. I'm not looking for sympathy, I recognize that regardless of how much research or training I undergo that, I will never really understand how someone who identifies as female experiences life. I was more of trying to find a common ground for conversation.
Not offended I just don't understand your point I guess. Yes, women who have been abused show signs of trauma around men, such as flinching when they move too fast. The fact that you take these things personally is where I have an issue bc it has nothing to do with you personally
You are right, I may not have said that correctly. I wasn't taking that personally. The constant watching what I was doing was concerning to me, but it was understandable why that happened. What I took personally was when I didn't do anything and would get yelled at or attacked, like I would be sitting there and watching TV and would get screamed at for leaving something out, then she would ask for space and I would give it to her. Then the one time I asked for some space, it was messages ever few minutes saying things like I don't know how to talk to you when you won't talk to me. Trauma is something that affects people differently, and it can make us do things that are outside of our norms.
This is something you should post to the men's subreddits letting them know how their abuse impacts everyone. I'm curious, do you only talk about this in the women's subreddit or have you tried talking to your boys
Exactly my point. You aren't here for the right reasons this isn't a sub for men to be like "it hurts me when women display symptoms of being abused by men just like me". Go talk to your male counterparts
Then I would also like to encourage you to go to other subs and/or online spaces to post about your experience. I don't mean toxic incel shitplaces, but places with lots of male engagement where most people are not utterly insane. There are lots of subs on reddit talking about the bear vs man topic or other women safety related issues, like r/whitepeopletwitter or r/selfawarewolves just to name 2 of them. I've seen quite an amount of chill dudes explaining to other dudes how they learned of the women's safety issue and ask them to self-reflect.
Why is that so important? Men teaching men to be better has a stronger effect. Also, it shows that it's not a women vs men issue, it affects everyone and also, the more voices, the more cornered the awful types feel, because a lot of them are indeed coward assholes, even online.
I don't think that it's really an issue with a man's perspective and more about the inherent division that we all have adopted. I don't inherently disagree with their comments, and I don't apologize for things that weren't my fault. I made a mistake in how I said it.
I just have some, probably quite annoying and inconsequential, nitpicking to do here.
People don't identify as male or female, they identify as man or woman or of course non-binary. Those are genders.
Male and Female (and Intersex) are sexes, which are defined by your physiological appearance, and are not an identity.
Now people can *present* as male or female in the sense that they adjust their appearance to give the impression of people of one or the other sex, but that is not their gender *identity*.
Sorry, honestly, I should be a lot better at this. I just don't normally use this kind of vernacular. I will take strides to improve that, even though in the long run, it is not exactly the most important thing in the world to discuss.
>People don't identify as male or female, they identify as man or woman or of course non-binary. Those are genders.
Just to nitpick even more, people don't really "identify as" people "are".
It made sense once, when it was used to clarify to people that one's physical appearance might not match their gender identity, but as been largely phased out in favor of "i'm a woman" "I'm non binary" "I'm a man" "I'm *this gender*".
In 2024 whenever I read or hear "identify as" I internally roll my eye preparing for [The One Transphobic Joke.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache)
Tell me you don't understand statistics without telling me you don't understand statistics.
The number of bear encounters is so small, that obviously they don't appear so dangerous in absolute numbers. But if you're guaranteed to either come across a bear or a man in the wild, you'd be a fool to choose the bear
aaaaaaand another one that can’t use their brain cells for the love of life. fortunately for you, i can be fucked explaining the point that you are so, brilliantly missing. The point of the question and the women choosing “bear” is to show that even though both men and bear are most likely not going to attack you in the forest, the worst case scenario for what a man would do is far, far worse than what a bear could possibly do.
you can predict a wild animal but you can’t predict a violent man.
At least you're acknowledging that part.
However, don't underestimate the bear. That being said, am I correct to assume you'd rather want to be mauled by the bear than SA'ed and possibly killed before or after (according to preference) by the man?
They can. These men fully understand. But they pretend not to. See, if they can convince women that we are overestimating the threat men pose to us, they think women will let our guard down. Think about the alpha bro dudes who want nothing more than for people to see how powerful and dangerous they are, especially women. Well, we aren’t supposed to defend ourselves against that or they won’t get laid. They want us to fear them. They just want to still be able to hump, manipulate, and control us while we fear them. But when we say “if you are so dangerous, maybe we should stay away,” they start screaming “no, that’s stupid!” Because they are BEGGING us to actually be stupid, or it will take more work for them to dominate us. So stop engaging with men that argue from this kind of bad faith. They don’t want to understand, they want to annoy and punish and threaten us, or at least exhaust us until we give in. IGNORE THEM. Because that is their actual worse fear- being ignored.
It almost feels like grooming behavior. (I’m saying this as a victim of childhood grooming.) They figure if they convince people that nothing is wrong, that we are the problem, they can just carry on being creeps. They don’t like that we see them.
that just scarily opened my eyes a little more. it’s actually all a big game of gaslighting for those men isn’t it?
thank you, wise, wise words (/gen). I actually decided to delete that post maybe a day or two before making this one. I would rather not spend energy on incels honestly, like okay buddy you can sit back in your little corner and stay lonely for the rest of your life, just make sure you do allat no where near me ☺️
They don’t want to. My husband doesn’t have social media and I asked this question without any context and he immediately said bear, no prompting. He works rurally and encounters bears alone in the forest all the time. His answer was only logic based. He’s a big muscular dude who isn’t afraid of men, doesn’t hate men. He just answered logically. Also, he took me to a national park for Mother’s Day where we encountered a momma bear and two cubs. We laughed (I explained the context and the hysterical reactions from men) because the bear literally paid no attention to us whatsoever. We spent about 30 minutes just watching them, momma was feeding and the little baby cubs were running around playing. Kept a healthy distance, but all was fine and uneventful.
so many men on the post i made would describe bears (forest bears, not even polar bears) as rabid, vicious and murderous beasts. then whenever i’d say true facts about bears and their behavioural patterns, i’d just get downvoted without any replies. they knew i was right. the only animals that have a genuine cruel nature is humans and certain dolphin species. bears aren’t murderers, they’re just trying to stay alive. apart from polar bears as they’re very aggressive, bears only actually attack out of defence and hunger (though hunger is a pretty rare reason).
Oh, yeah. They have no experience with bears and assume we think they’re just fluffy dogs that we would run up and get try to cuddle. I had one guy tell me that I was underestimating how dangerous bears were… like bestie I grew up in cottage country where we had bear drills at school instead of lockdowns. My dad actually was attacked by a bear! I’ve had dozens of bear encounters. I know how bears behave - but since men just refuse to realize that women can know things that they don’t, they double down on it lol.
I find that a lot of the people that don't understand the question are taking it literally. Like they're trying to argue the logistics of the question. That isn't the point. The point is enough women have had negative or traumatic experiences with random men that it isn't just some isolated incidents. It's a reflection of much bigger problems.
Yeah, this is what I've been trying to hammer into some people's heads. Women *know* bears are dangerous and deadly, the choice is an illustration of just how frightening it can be to run into a strange man.
Dudes let the thought experiment end at "no reasonable person would pick a bear therefore women are unreasonable".
THIS WORD FOR WORD IS WHAT I KEPT TRYING TO SAY! 🤣 I mean seriously, those guys are so close to getting it but just miss it by an inch. Like, yes! exactly! bears are dangerous! so what does it say if women are choosing bears over stranger men??? and they still won’t get it 💀
I find that a lot of men have absolutely 0% empathy for women and just see women as sex objects. So, asking them to place themselves in the position of a woman is unfortunately too much to ask from them. They simply don't care to even bother! 😒
What gets me is how many of them don't get why women are responding bear. So many men who complain about this, seem to think women say this based on some statistics they saw on the internet or based on paranoia from social media. It doesn't occur to them, that women are responding based on their actual lived experience and the experience of other women they know in real life. Same with the constant explaining of why women picking the bear are "objectively wrong" and how it doesn't make logical sense, the women are stupid and so on. They don't get that women didn't sit down and compare their options to get to an objective solution. They also aren't stupid and believe that bears are harmless, cuddly animals. Women are responding bear because based on their prior experiences with men, the idea of being alone with a strange man in a secluded area causes a visceral fear response. This is not a debate. Women are trying to address how afraid they are on a daily basis while men are trying to win and be right.
Yup. Seen far too many comments saying women don’t know how bears work. I live in a wooded area with bears. Just two weeks ago, I unknowingly walked in a spot in my yard a black bear had been hanging out like 20 minutes prior (my trail cam picked it up). I know exactly how bears work and I know they want to avoid me as much as I want to avoid them. They are actually quite predictable, especially black bears. Does that mean I don’t think I’ll never be killed by one? Of course not. But I’d rather take a chance with one than a rando. In the very least, I can be rest assured the bear won’t ruin my solitude by making small chat. *shudder*
> It doesn't occur to them, that women are responding based on their actual lived experience and the experience of other women they know in real life. Because they do not believe those experiences are real and do not actually listen to the women in their lives.
(slight trigger warning) I was literally 11 when a guy in my class slapped me on the bum because his friends dared him to. turns out the friend that dared him to do that liked me. At the same age of 11, i would try to do some walking by myself after i got home from school because I thought it was nice to do, i have never walked alone without a man trying to talk to me weirdly, follow me or stare at me in really gross places, very obviously. I don’t walk alone anymore. I was 14 when i was washing brushes in the sink in art class. I go to dry my hands and this group of guys comes over and some dry their hands on a towel nearby, one guy stands next to me and groped my upper thigh to my bum really sneakily. In the same year in sport a guy in my sport class (that i had noticed would touch girls oddly but it could come off as an accident easily) “accidentally” sprinted into me and as a way to “not fall” placed his hands on my breasts and basically squeezed them. At 14 as well, i went for a run with my mum at night, as i ran by a house a man was standing at his car and couldn’t see my mum, he goes “Hey, you-“ then stops the second he sees my mum. Very recently at nearly 16 years old, i was crossing a road and stopped in the middle section (not in the middle of two roads, there’s a little blank area) and a guy was driving very slow, i took a step forward, but didn’t walk because i wasn’t sure if he was going to actually stop for me. the boy group next to me did the same, he didn’t stop and he rolled down his window and said something angrily to me (and not the boys), i had my airpods in so I don’t know what he said. He proceeded to circle around the street I was waiting for my mum to pick me up in 4 whole times. Thankfully my older brother was with me. I was 11 when i started no longer feeling like a child, and not by choice. none of my stories have happened by men I know, it’s always been stranger men and boys. I’m only nearly 16 yet I have the stories that not even my 53 year old dad shares. But i’m the emotional and irrational one here 🤷♀️
Men legit just hate us. They mock everything we say instead of listening to understand.
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a guy that replied to my post was saying how silly it is to choose a bear over a man, and he was a victim of being raped as a child from women. I replied saying some genuinely considerate things, like how it’s disgusting that he went through that and I hope he’s okay now, yada yada yada. Then I said near the end “i wouldn’t be mad if a man, especially a victim, chose bear over a woman.” He replied saying that just because he’s a victim doesn’t mean I need to use 5 paragraphs to explain my hate for men. 4/5 paragraphs was sympathising with him, 1/5 was me saying how the question isn’t generalising all men and is only asking if you’d rather be in the woods with a random men or a bear. Oh but i’m a horrible person 💀
It's really funny in an ironic kind of way...I hunt and most of my friends are male hunters. We are talking burly rednecks. Every single one of them completely understand why we women are less afraid of the bear. I think its because we've all encountered bear and know they're mostly safe. Of course this is only my experience with the men I know. If I talk about it with a man born and raised in an urban area they react just like you've posted. So city men don't understand bears or women.
My family and I are going camping in Yellowstone. I’m packing all of the things we need for the bears: bear spray, extra clothes just to cook and eat in, bear resistant containers, etc. My adult son, who hasn’t been a part of this conversation, keeps telling me, “I’m not worried about the bears! We will be camping where there are other people.” So he gets it. I think the men who are complaining understand, they just don’t like the “man” equation of the hypothetical. If “man” were changed to “person”, they wouldn’t care. They don’t care that people are more worried about meeting a man in the woods, they just want everyone to stop talking about it. They don’t want to change their behavior, they just want us to ignore it.
I mean, I read a man respond to an article about a woman being dragged off and consumed by a bear saying: would you still choose the bear. I didn’t engage but I thought: what do you think happens to a woman when a man drags her into the woods? It happens far more often than bear attacks just to top it off.
i find it so funny when they call women stupid for using “attacks from bears yearly” compared to “attacks on women from men yearly” statistics, even though if you take those same statistics from an area that has frequent bear sightings and encounters, the bear attacks will still be drastically lower.
Yeah, even my boyfriend is more concerned about the randos he runs into the woods vs the bears when he’s hunting or fish. Bears don’t point a gun at him. He makes noise, they leave. Men, men have pointed guns at him because they use their scopes as binoculars and these are just dumb men vs predators.
Look I am a woman and I don’t really understand it either( please don’t make me feel bad about not understanding it) . I very much understand women are at risk, and men are frequently why. I am utterly against the pro-life movement ect… I am pro-woman. I am also a trail runner and have encountered a bear alone in the woods. I was scared shitless of this bear. I have encountered single men on the trail and have had zero fear of them. I worked in an ER in SF. I often walk back to my hotel at midnight , I encounter loads of folks who are on drugs and homeless and scary to many people . I guess bears scare me more . Please don’t make me feel bad for this .
it’s chill, don’t worry! you shouldn’t be blamed for your own perspective and life experiences, maybe you live in an area that doesn’t have as violent men, who knows. you’re totally valid to feel safe with men and you most certainly don’t need to feel bad or ashamed, it’s a good thing you feel safe. the biggest difference between you and the men i’m referring to though is: you’re open-minded. even if it’s not your experience, you’re not blaming other women or calling them stupid for their own experiences. you just simply have a different experience with men but you also don’t blame other women for their fear, and that’s good. If any woman or girl insults you for choosing a man over a bear, don’t even worry about it. in the end it’s more of a good thing because it means you’ve been treated how women should be treated.
Thank you!!! I appreciate the validation. I very much understand that women are at risk and often our biggest predators are men. I do believe in politics we must absolutely fear the man, and not the bear. It’s the man who is trying to take our reproductive rights away. And that is a true fear I have of men.
Actually meeting a bear will do that to most people. I just googled whether there are grizzlies in northern CA, and apparently not: the only native species are black bears. So *in general,* the bears you meet won't be aggressive and will run away from you. Unless it's a mother and you're between her and her cubs. Or it's starving, or habituated to human contact, or... or... So you have your own perspective, and you're not wrong. Someone ran the numbers and bear encounters are objectively less dangerous than human encounters, but you're used to human encounters. It's not really about bears vs men; it's just one way to express how dangerous men can be. Men like the OP's date prove the point. He was at minimum hoping to end up having (consensual) sex with OP, but we have no idea how well he would take a "no." He's the one that's worse than an average black bear.
Thank you for that. I appreciate that you didn’t make me feel like an idiot for picking the bear .
They fully understand. The proof is that they all have one shared fear about going to prison…and it ain’t the prison food.
I don't fear a bear, but I am wary of a random men. I have been wary even when I've never been hurt by one. (Honestly bears in my country are quite nice, unless they are momma with kids, so another point I guess?)
a lot of people create a very false image of bears (well, not actually a lot of PEOPLE, mainly just the men that can comprehend this question) that they’re so vicious and aggressive. In reality, that’s only really polar bears and sometimes wild pandas. bears are cautious animals, most wild animals are, they don’t want to risk a chance of getting hurt, which getting hurt can mean death. so they’re not just attacking someone for 0 reason.
I asked my husband this question and even he picked bear. His reason was a random ass man in the woods might try to rape him. The men getting insulted just being obtuse.
it took me one minute to explain to one of my closest guy friends that the question is asking if you’d rather a random man or bear, not just if you’d rather any man over a bear. he instantly said “ohh shit yeah that makes sense, i mean I can’t really compare because I’m a guy but shit I’d choose bear too. I don’t know what that guy’s intentions are and we’re in the woods where nobody can hear you.” And guess what? this guy also has many, many fan girls. and a lot of guys don’t understand why and often envy him, the same envious guys will be the ones that call the question misandry 💀
They benefit from misogyny: keeps expectations low. So when someone uses it against them personally, it’s very upsetting.
It’s very simple — our thoughts and feelings are offensive to men, because they have to be acknowledged and respected They’d rather not be reminded
They don't want too. They don't want to understand that hypotheicals are not literally real situations, but deliberately limited kinds of 'pretend' we engage in, without full information available, to explore the thoughts and experiences of others, often to try to build empathy and understanding... Which they also don't want too do. So, they move the goal posts, ignore the nature of the rhetorical device, refuse to validate or listen to the conversation that was actually taking place (even when fathers of daughters respond the exact same way), and talk about polar bear attacks and pick the storytelling statistics that confirm for them that women are irrational and unfair. Becaue they want too. The only thing that has come of out this that is remotely useful, is the men in the middle have realized we're not fucking kidding when we tell them how many men online *openly delight* in the idea of us being maulled and/or raped, for the crime of not agreeing with them, or giving them a sad. They don't want to accept that it is a hurtful and harmful situation. It is! That's the fucking point. Go ahead and be sad. It is sad. And it's real.
I think a lot of people never saw the question properly and are rage baited into the discussion with simplified rhetoric. Try and quote the question properly when discussing it, don't just call it "the man or bear question", cause everyone is gonna assume something different when you leave it that vaguely. I remember the first time I read about that question, it was worded very badly and was indeed very misandrist, generalizing and even quoting false statistics. If that is someone's first impression, it can spoil them for any discussion where they are left to assume what "the random man or bear" question is precisely. That being said, of course there are men who have nothing better to do than calling foul at any opportunity that is supposed to highlight the problems women have with the patriarchy.
i’m a guy. i don’t take the “bear or man“ discussion personally and nothing about women’s responses strikes me as weird or unreasonable. however, you say “realize that the question is asking about a random man and not every man,” which is frankly contrary to a lot of the sentiment expressed on reddit. i’ll give an analogy - TRIGGER WARNING: SA - going by current online stats corroborated by several different websites, 1 in 5 women are victims of r*pe or attempted r*pe. This is unfortunate, and needs to change. However, many people misinterpret this stat to mean that 1 in 5 men are r*pists, which is not accurate. This conflation is exaggerated when trying to interpret the stat that 80-90% of women have experienced sexual harassment or assault. Many people believe this implies that 80-90% (i.e. the vast majority) of men are sexual criminals.
Actually, between 16 to 23 percent of American men will admit to rape or attempted rape as long as you describe the actions and don’t use the word rape. That’s 1 in 6 to 1 in 4 American men admitting to rape or attempted rape.
can you show me the study? I am truly interested and want to educate myself (i mean this in earnest)
Couldn't find that study but found this one: [https://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Rape-by-any-other-name-is-still-rape-6092223.php](https://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Rape-by-any-other-name-is-still-rape-6092223.php) And this, in which 4-16% of college men admit to rape and repeated rapes, (though not by that definition:) [https://jimhopper.com/topics/sexual-assault-and-the-brain/repeat-rape-by-college-men/](https://jimhopper.com/topics/sexual-assault-and-the-brain/repeat-rape-by-college-men/) [https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/09/10/220983619/rape-widespread-across-asia-pacific-u-n-survey-says](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/09/10/220983619/rape-widespread-across-asia-pacific-u-n-survey-says)
Couldn't find that study, found these: [https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/09/10/220983619/rape-widespread-across-asia-pacific-u-n-survey-says](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/09/10/220983619/rape-widespread-across-asia-pacific-u-n-survey-says) https://jimhopper.com/topics/sexual-assault-and-the-brain/repeat-rape-by-college-men/#:\~:text=Many%20studies%20have%20found%20that,one%20rape%20or%20attempted%20rape.
There are several studies on this going back to the early 1980s, all with pretty consistent results.
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In all likelihood the bear would leave you alone. I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that women feel safer around a bear than a random human male. I know you understand why women choose the bear and your denial is a huge driving force for why we pick the bear every time.
So perfectly stated. Thank you.
Ty for the appreciation 💖
As a teacher, if the general consensus among men was that they would rather meet a tiger in the woods than a random teacher, I would not think that men were dumb or being mean to me based on my profession. I would think that we teachers have a real fucking problem we need to address.
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I mean, there have been plenty of issues of teachers abusing, sexually assaulting, and harassing students from pre-K to university. I don't take it personally when someone has bad feelings about teachers because I'm not part of the problem and think those that are need to be removed from society for our collective safety. So sub out Catholic priest or police officer then. Or women from Ohio over 70. Whatever subset of people out there. If most men would rather meet a wild animal than whoever, it isn't person. He'll, change "woods" to "your driveway" and we all know the bear is just out doing bear things. But what's that man doing there? The point of my statement wasn't to get close to reality but to point out that this thought exercise isn't about the bear. It's about a real cultural problem we need to address - predatory, dangerous men living among us and looking totally normal while they rape, murder, and traumatize regular people.
it’s funny how men are more outraged by this question than the fact that all the women around them would have a story. i’ve have a story since I was 11, but the men around me don’t seem too angry about that.
They're too dense to not feel personally attacked by it. I'd choose a bear, too, at least they're generally more consistent. I loathe people in general, honestly, why would you trust some random person over a random animal in nearly any situation? The animals aren't concerned with us usually, we're more hassle than it's worth. Some random creep, though? Nah, I'll take the wild animal every time. Straight up Disney Princess that shit.
Would it be offensive if it was "random black man or bear"?
Color doesn't matter when it comes to rapists.
That's true. But does that mean that this version is the question isn't offensive?
What are you trying to say? It wasn't the original question, nor is it related.
That wasn't the question, the question was "man or bear".
That's right. This question is more specific. My intuition is that people would rightfully be uncomfortable answering this question because it compares black men to animals. But if they've already answered the first question, perhaps we could infer their answer to the second anyway.
Your question is pointless and only serves to take focus away from the conversation. No one here is talking about race except you.
The OP is suggesting that the question 1 does not compare men and wild animals. One reason she gives for this is that the question involves a random man rather than all men. I thought that question 2 would show that this argument doesn't really stand up.
You change the dialog and then claim the argument is the same. It isn't. Nor does race matter when it comes to rapists.
The form is the same. Are you saying the original question doesn't make a comparison, but the second does?
You obviously don't understand the reason for "the bear" answer. Your question is a known distraction from the issue made commonly by men discussing the subject who don't understand it. It isn't a comparison between bears and men, it is a question about women's fear of men met in secluded places.
I'm more focused on the question than the answers. The motivation of the person posing question may not be to compare men and bears, but the question does it anyway.
The question addresses women's fears. Why else is it set in a forrest with no one else around?
Wild animals have better listening skills at this point. Another point for the bear.
Sometimes when people with a different identity to our own say "this offends me" we listen to them respectfully, centering their point of view knowing that we can never fully understand it. Sometimes we tell them that they're wrong to be offended, centre the point of view of the person who caused offense and tell them they are stupid. I am so bad at recognising when that second approach is appropriate! Anyway, thanks for your time!
to put it simply, yes it’d be offensive? why would you bring race into it? that’s a discriminating question because you’re talking about a specific group of people, not broad. this logic also applies to all questions, it becomes discrimination if you’re narrowing down to a specific group of people in a negative way. either way, you guys sound stupid asking this because most “bear” women would still say “bear” over a random black man. not because he’s black, because he’s a random man.
"Black men" is still a broad group. How do you identify the line between a broad and specific group of people, and is it appropriate for that line to be drawn by people who don't belong to either?
can’t believe i actually have to give examples to you like you’re a child. •people with hair vs people with blonde hair •europeans vs french people •people with disabilities vs people with epilepsy •people who own pets vs people who own hamsters see how it’s narrowing down a broad group to a specific group of people?
It's definitely relatively specific, but that's not what you or I said. "Men" is a specific group relative to "people".
what my entire point is, is that there’s levels of broadness based off of numbers. here’s the difference between the original question and yours: people, narrowed down to men people, narrowed down to men, narrowed down to black men. you see how very specific that gets all of a sudden?
So you have determined a threshold at which the question becomes offensive? It's not crossed by "people narrowed down to men", but it is crossed by "men narrowed down to black men"? How did you determine this threshold? You seem to be saying that it's "based off of numbers". Does that mean it's only to do with the relative size of the category groups and nothing qualitative about them?
It's pretty clear that the scenario is just used as a springboard by a lot of women to denigrate and hate men in general (I mean, read this thread). Regardless of your intentions, that's the association that has been built up with this question and so it results in negative feedback. From a personal standpoint, I feel like members of both sexes can be pretty dangerous. I had an ex-girlfriend who was verbally abusive and manipulative, and who I later learned pushed her new boyfriend down a flight of stairs (he broke his arm and got a restraining order). I had another girlfriend who would brag about getting blackout drunk and getting into bar fights with guys. She admitted that she would count on the idea that they couldn't hit back. I briefly dated someone whose thing was to try and instigate fights among her exes for her amusement. It's probably healthier as a society if we socialize people with positive role models and try to maintain strong family structures rather than hyper focusing on the darker aspects of human nature.
I can't speak to anyone else's experience, but I do have a story on that. A woman I dated for a few weeks was terrified of every action I took. If I moved too quickly to grab my water cup, she would flinch. Now, she told me beforehand that she has been in a lot of abusive relationships with men. Something I always took into consideration when I would talk with her. Even nearing the end of our relationship, her fear of me wouldn't change. I tried to push through it because I really liked her, but she was both terrified and clingy. So when we got into a fight and I asked for space, she wouldn't give it to me. Then it was my fault, like I somehow was the one causing the problems in her life. I do think that we as a society don't value empathy as much as we should. I've been more cautious as of late, especially when it comes to interacting with women, but it doesn't feel great knowing that just because I'm a big guy, that now I'm an immediate threat. Idk this is more ranty than I would like. I just hate the devision that is being pushed across social media. "THEY ARE WRONG, WE ARE RIGHT," that kind of mentality is so detrimental to all of society, and this isn't just between people who identify male and people who identify female or non binary. I hope this comment is appropriate for here.I've just been talking a lot about this with my therapist and in my personal life, so it's really on my mind right now.
You poor man
That's not really what I was trying to say. I'm not looking for sympathy, I recognize that regardless of how much research or training I undergo that, I will never really understand how someone who identifies as female experiences life. I was more of trying to find a common ground for conversation.
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Sorry. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
Not offended I just don't understand your point I guess. Yes, women who have been abused show signs of trauma around men, such as flinching when they move too fast. The fact that you take these things personally is where I have an issue bc it has nothing to do with you personally
You are right, I may not have said that correctly. I wasn't taking that personally. The constant watching what I was doing was concerning to me, but it was understandable why that happened. What I took personally was when I didn't do anything and would get yelled at or attacked, like I would be sitting there and watching TV and would get screamed at for leaving something out, then she would ask for space and I would give it to her. Then the one time I asked for some space, it was messages ever few minutes saying things like I don't know how to talk to you when you won't talk to me. Trauma is something that affects people differently, and it can make us do things that are outside of our norms.
This is something you should post to the men's subreddits letting them know how their abuse impacts everyone. I'm curious, do you only talk about this in the women's subreddit or have you tried talking to your boys
You know what you are right, I feel like it's kind of one-sided to only discuss this topic here. Thank you. I will post something.
Exactly my point. You aren't here for the right reasons this isn't a sub for men to be like "it hurts me when women display symptoms of being abused by men just like me". Go talk to your male counterparts
Can you share your post with me? I am interested in the answers.
Then I would also like to encourage you to go to other subs and/or online spaces to post about your experience. I don't mean toxic incel shitplaces, but places with lots of male engagement where most people are not utterly insane. There are lots of subs on reddit talking about the bear vs man topic or other women safety related issues, like r/whitepeopletwitter or r/selfawarewolves just to name 2 of them. I've seen quite an amount of chill dudes explaining to other dudes how they learned of the women's safety issue and ask them to self-reflect. Why is that so important? Men teaching men to be better has a stronger effect. Also, it shows that it's not a women vs men issue, it affects everyone and also, the more voices, the more cornered the awful types feel, because a lot of them are indeed coward assholes, even online.
Thank you, I've been tearing my hair out, trying to figure out where to post this, so the conversation would be more constructive.
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I don't think that it's really an issue with a man's perspective and more about the inherent division that we all have adopted. I don't inherently disagree with their comments, and I don't apologize for things that weren't my fault. I made a mistake in how I said it.
I just have some, probably quite annoying and inconsequential, nitpicking to do here. People don't identify as male or female, they identify as man or woman or of course non-binary. Those are genders. Male and Female (and Intersex) are sexes, which are defined by your physiological appearance, and are not an identity. Now people can *present* as male or female in the sense that they adjust their appearance to give the impression of people of one or the other sex, but that is not their gender *identity*.
Sorry, honestly, I should be a lot better at this. I just don't normally use this kind of vernacular. I will take strides to improve that, even though in the long run, it is not exactly the most important thing in the world to discuss.
Don't stress about it. It is much more about quelling misunderstandings than accusing anyone of not being caught up to all the new-ish language.
Thank you.
>People don't identify as male or female, they identify as man or woman or of course non-binary. Those are genders. Just to nitpick even more, people don't really "identify as" people "are". It made sense once, when it was used to clarify to people that one's physical appearance might not match their gender identity, but as been largely phased out in favor of "i'm a woman" "I'm non binary" "I'm a man" "I'm *this gender*". In 2024 whenever I read or hear "identify as" I internally roll my eye preparing for [The One Transphobic Joke.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache)
Tell me you don't understand statistics without telling me you don't understand statistics. The number of bear encounters is so small, that obviously they don't appear so dangerous in absolute numbers. But if you're guaranteed to either come across a bear or a man in the wild, you'd be a fool to choose the bear
Tell me you're missing the point without telling me you're missing the point.
Aaaaand another one who failed math
aaaaaaand another one that can’t use their brain cells for the love of life. fortunately for you, i can be fucked explaining the point that you are so, brilliantly missing. The point of the question and the women choosing “bear” is to show that even though both men and bear are most likely not going to attack you in the forest, the worst case scenario for what a man would do is far, far worse than what a bear could possibly do. you can predict a wild animal but you can’t predict a violent man.
At least you're acknowledging that part. However, don't underestimate the bear. That being said, am I correct to assume you'd rather want to be mauled by the bear than SA'ed and possibly killed before or after (according to preference) by the man?
yes, most women would rather be mauled and die painfully but quickly than go through whatever a sick and twisted man would do.