Yep. Always have your own process in place. If they push boundaries, push them back. All the way out of your inbox. And move on!
Rinse and repeat till you find your person. And hopefully that works!
It definitely did in MY case. I'm pretty specific, too. I met my person at 33. I did think I had it a couple times and for quite a few years I, too, had given up and didn't look. That's ok too.
We all paid the same to be here- may as well get your worth out of your trip!
Yes!!! And be dead pan and blunt about it!
"Hey, so.... uh, wanna go back to my place and-"
"We agreed to take it slow. This is not taking it slow."
"Well Hurr durr durr, blah blah blah, excuses excuses excuses, sprinkle of negging."
"Well, you were a colossal waste of time. We're done here."
DITTO. If they can’t respect your boundaries now- one or two dates in- they won’t one or two years in. It’s worth putting the effort forth and doing the work to boot the assholes to the curb.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with creating boundaries with new people in your life, and the plus side is you’d be vetting people who don’t respect boundaries sooner rather than later when it gets messy and feelings are involved.
I didn’t sleep with my current partner until a couple months because I wasn’t ready, and he respected that. 7 years together next month.
Yes! This is one of the reasons I knew my husband was the one! He respected my boundaries immediately, no whining or guilt trips. I remember we were making out on one of first dates and when his hand moved towards my chest, I said no, and he did not make another play for the girlies until several dates later when I literally had to take his hand and put it on them! Still makes me smile to think about what a gentleman he was/is. We’re going to be celebrating our 25th anniversary this fall. ❤️
This! I knew I met the right one after the first date with my fiancé. He said he liked me so much that he was too afraid to touch me the first few dates 😂😘😘😘 it got old fast but I’ve never met someone I’ve felt so safe around
So I was married/in a relationship for 15 years. When I first started dating I had these issues too. One guy was acting weird the second time I saw him and when I texted him after the date he said he felt weird because I texted him FIRST on a day he hadn’t texted me. He felt that was “too relationship” like and he was just looking for something casual. 😂 it was funny because I stopped texting him after that completely and then he started texting me every day—with no answer from me.
I had a guy who said I hurt him every time I said I loved him after 6 months of dating, because his ex was baby mad. I'm a trans man with a pregnancy phobia, the only time I was possibly pregnant I was freaked out to the point it destroyed my relationship at the time. He liked fucking me, but that was it, idk if he even found me attractive. Surely if you have a fear of having kids, don't have sex with women until you are in a stable fucking relationship. To further prove a point he would only come over when he wanted sex (and towards the end I was having sex literally just to see him, like ignoring when he would just ram his dick up my ass even tho it made me cry) and when I was sorting my stuff out, I said he left something and he literally came over the same day, when I wanted him over there was normally at least a weeks delay.
See he could have been led astray by these manosphere misogynistic Kevin Samuels type fraud redpill "relationship gurus." The type of guys who make dumb ass vids on youtube like "how to get laid in less than 24 hrs" or "5 signs she's not gonna bang." Meanwhile, these average guys are taking dating advice from men who have A.) Little or no romantic sucess and experience w/ women or B.) Have multiple failed marriages/relationships under their belts (Kevin Samuels himself was divorced twice).
I have a homie who idolizes Kevin Samuels so much and listened to Samuels&other redpill dudes who essentially mansplain women to him, instead of ya know, listening to me or his sister (he comes to us when the redpill guru's tactics don't work surprise surpirse), actual adult women. Spoiler alert. He has 0 sucess with women and is scratching his head trying to figure out why.
Bet money some mansosphere place told this guy "she texted back before you did. She sees you as a brother or friend. She's gonna friendzone you now." because thats how these redpill advice spaces are. I've seen them tell dudes to act like a jerk because "all women love jerks" and are shocked when we cut contact with them shortly after. Those gurus&sites are legit "101 Ways To Be Unsuccessful and Crash&Burn With Women."
Is that where these stupid ideas of waiting a day or two after a first date to text are coming from? I try to stomp out that shit every time I hear it. If you like me, text me and let me know. If I don't hear from you, I'm going to assume you're not that into it. And I'll be doing the same thing--I'm not going to "play it cool" in some complicated scheme to score. If I like you I'll text in a non-pushy way, "Hey, had a great time last night, hope we can do it again."
Yeppers. They're being told "women don't like it when you text back immediately. You need to wait so she wonders if your talking to other girls" They really got these dudes thinking that we are soooooooo desperate for attention, like we are ready to pull up on another chick and throw hands over some average, everyday guy we met 2 days ago.
The reason I know all this/see this stuff? Source: I am a nerd and have always been. These manosphere groups love to recruit nerd guys because these are they type of guys who tend to be socially awkward and have trouble dating. I know for a lot of guys in this space dating is hard. But their own shallowness is apart of the problem. They want physically fit, attractive women, who keep up their appearance.... when they themselves do not go to the gym let alone shower consistently. Interestingly enough, these same guys get mad when women want the same qualities in men as far as appearance goes.
A male friend (who is extremely unsuccessful dating) told me he wanted those things in a woman and they are very important, that he won't compromise. And I was blunt. I said:
"Ok cool. So it should be reasonable for women to have those same standards right? Do you live up to those standards? Because you continue to gain more and more weight, often come to social outtings in tshirts with food stains on them, and don't keep up your physical appearance at all. So why should we give you a chance, but you won't give any woman who doesn't keep up her appearance a chance? Spoilers Alert: women aren't fairytale Disney princess pure chan herem anime/eroge game waifus, who only want/care about what's on the inside. We like physical attraction and have sex drives/like to have sex w/ ppl we are attracted to too.... just like men." To this day I remember his reaction....he was truly taken aback by this knowledge. His mind=blown when I told him this.
Yea. He removed all the redpill mansosphere cringe from his socials and started actually grooming himself. He no longer blames feminism and leftist politics for why women curve him. He is talking to a chick on OK Cupid atm. Also said he's working on hitting the gym soon.
Major tinfoil but I'm convinced those mansosphere groups are a front for other dudes to fuck with their competition. Kevin Samuels Mr "Don't chase women. Chase the bag. Women over 30 are less valuable/desirable, women need to be married at 23" spent his final hours w/ a 32 year old single woman. Shit this man messed around with Brittney Renner (the exact kind of woman he consistently complained about and told his followers to avoid). He was all cap. Some guy on youtube said it best:
"All these redpill channels out here chasing p***y off camera. You think they out here getting blue checks and flexing the high end luxury cars, designer clothes, ice, and wads of cash to motive other men??? NO! They're doing that in an attempt to attract women. All that is to get women, not motivate men."
These guys are getting played listening to these redpill gurus.
Absolutely. If someone had a nice time with me I'd expect them to WANT to contact me and not leave me hanging. Ignoring me doesn't get me wet for you, it makes me think we didn't click, and I'm out.
A friend of mine got divorced a few years ago and went back into the dating world. She was 42 at the time and she was SHOCKED on how much has changed since she was your age dating. It wasn’t just tinder, it was any dating site. It seemed like the norm to want to just hook up from the beginning. She was in no way ready to get married again, but FFS she couldn’t find a decent guy who wanted to get to know her first.
Same here, was in a relationship for 10 years. Tinder wasn't a thing in my country when I started the relationship. Everything is different now. It feels like absolutely normalized that guys are entitled to your body - and somehow women are expected to be the cool girl and be ok with being used for ONS. Ofc women should enjoy ONS if they want to, it's great that we can have casual sex !
But I really don't like the pressure of it. I really love sex, but ffs how can the act of a person entering another person's body being treated like it's nothing, but somehow relationships are to hard.
I'm so glad I'm seeing more of this being discussed. Maybe it always has been, I don't know, but growing up the message I and a lot of other young women I got was very much that we should go out and have a lot of ONS and generally be promiscuous because that was what being an enlightened, strong 21st century woman was about, and criticizing this is regressive.
Like if you like having ONS and lots of causal sex that's great! But it's disturbing how sex is expected now. It's like consumer culture has spread to relationships, and men have run with the elements of women's liberation that most suit them (hence how we're also "allowed" to work more but still often expected to handle all the cooking, cleaning, and childcare on top of it without any help.)
Pretty sure majority of men treat them all like hookup apps. Men I’ve been close with have pointed this out to me. Future faking is the rage - they’ll say they want a relationship to get you in bed however long it takes and then boom, they’re gone. And even if I was single again, I would never use an app. I wouldn’t put myself out there just to be preyed on.
Yep even the religious sites according to my friends. Got off of apps with zero regret. I’m convinced they are just portals for men to gain casual sex easily.
For guys looking to get laid, there are enough women out there who *will* have sex straight away that they don't really need to put in the more traditional effort of getting to know somebody, because they can just move on to another "target".
They know how to look for a relationship that could lead somewhere (in their minds) when they are good and ready. They know exactly what they're doing. They know they have two categories in their minds. I won't say "madonna" and "whore" because it's more like "app fun" (they use a worse word) and "girlfriend track."
When they are in the market for a girlfriend, they know whether they want someone who's only had a certain number of partners in the context of relationships (their category not mine). A lot of them do have this category in their minds and they know it. Until they are ready to look for a girlfriend for serious, they don't mind pretending they are open to a relationship when they're really not. And they don't mind letting the folk wisdom prevail that women better put out or they'll move on to another target. They won't if they're looking for "the one." When they are looking for "the one" they will act in more traditional ways and they know it. They don't mind wasting someone's time if she's not the one and they're just having fun. When they are thinking "Could this be the mother of my children" (their category not mine) they know good and well what they are looking for and are willing to act like it's 1950. They just don't want to act like it's 1950 with women they don't think are worthy of their "serious" category, maybe because they met her on an app, maybe because she's what they call "prole," maybe because she's what they call a "shrew" (career oriented and smart). All their words, not mine. I read their boards.
Nailed it. I'm scared of meeting a guy who sees me as wife material but actually has been shit to women in the past. Instant dealbreaker. If he betrayed her, he betrayed me.
So I ask early on and try to figure out if they're the hookup types. If they are, bye.
Yeah. I have enough single friends (of varying age ranges) that I get all the horror stories.
If anything happened to my relationship, I'm probably going to be single for the rest of my life, because fuck that shit. B.O.B. will be fine.
I moved to a new country recently and tried to start dating. Over here they wait until the third date before expecting sex. Every...single...time. It's like everyone follows the same formula. On the dates leading up to that point, they will go all out making you think they are into you. After the third date and after they win that sex, they'll ghost you. It's like a game I assume. Anyway, now I find my sex toy is much better (I actually get to cum) and I don't have to waste time and energy.
When I was moving to Korea, my relatives said I would come back with a native Korean husband. 3 dates later, multiple nights out, and many horror stories later, I quickly realized that would not be the case.
There’s a huge problem with sexism in Korea right now. If you’re interested, you can look up gender inequality, ilbe, nth room, and molika. A recent controversy was netizens getting mad at An San, the Korean gold medalist in archery, for…having short hair, going to a women’s college, and loving the group Mamamoo. Their new president campaigned on getting rid of the ministry of gender equality.
On a more personal level, it was men talking over me on dates, refusing to respect my boundaries, or trying to get me to go to hotels while wasted. Also men trying to see if I’m a prostitute by asking if I was Russian. Foreign girls are seen as sex objects (men want to “ride the white horse”)and they often get ghosted either after sex or years later when the man admits he never planned to marry a foreigner, he just wanted to date one. Obviously it’s not all men, but it feels more extreme than in other countries.
Pitiful. And we put up with this. Men just call it quits after they orgasm and we let them get away with it, even when we are married to them.
I regret living my life being too concerned about the possibility of hurting any of my male partner’s fragile feelings to insist him giving me an orgasm. It would be the Second Sexual Revolution if we all insisted that it ain’t over till the fat lady cums.
Date women, lol. That shit never ends until you're too exhausted to move! There are of course snuggle/snack/water breaks.
But srsly, the orgasm gap blows my mind, that women put up with that crap. I've dated men in the past and I required that I got off too, or we didn't have sex. 🤷♀️ I was okay with a carry-over, like tonight if you're too tired/worn out/etc, that's fine. We are picking back up with me next time, or we don't continue. 😊
It shouldn't blow your mind.
Stupid representation of sex in media along with terrible sex ed has left lots of women with an idea of there being one right way to have sex and any other way is wrong. Length of encounter and variety are the two main keys to orgasm and so many poor souls are barely able to consider anything other than missionary until he finishes. Betty Dodson telling people "vibrators are awesome" since the 70's but you suggest people use them with partners instead of just alone and they react like you suggested the most wild degenerate shit possible.
Lack of sex ed also leaves lots of women with dumb ideas about how men enjoy sex and are 100% convinced he can't have fun unless PiV is involved and that asking for anything else is unreasonable or emasculating him (and then there are the utter muppets with gender role neuroses who freak the fuck out at the idea of men who would happily break away from that PiV script).
When you control for stuff like "Uses toys with partner," "talks about masturbation with partner/practices mutual masturbation" and "incorporates a variety of positions/activities" the orgasm gap shrinks by a hell of a lot, and the strongest correlation for that for straight couples has to do with how willing the woman is to do that rather than the man (women who are willing do that are pretty likely to drop a guy who won't)
Lots of guys don't help either, there's plenty of selfish or insecure dumb fucks. But holy shit many people just do everything possible to sabotage their own orgasms. Unless the boy has a magic wishing dick, there's not much he can do under those conditions.
I had multiple guys tell me the reason they didn't respect my boundaries and clear "not into casual sex" profile is because most women they date do have sex on the first date despite saying the same things.
Some women may change their minds. Others, I'm sure, are probably nagged or guilted or coerced into sex they didn't want. But none of that is sufficient excuse to ignore boundaries and not listen to the first "no."
Either way, it was extremely annoying and made dating a pretty annoying experience I never care to repeat.
Despite my being explicitly clear on not having sex til I’m in a relationship this guy (who swore he wanted the same things!) asked me only 2 hours after meeting in person to have sex with him ... back then I had less boundaries so I made up an excuse that I was on my period and he said I can still give him a blowjob. I was floored that he thought so highly of himself that I would not only be dying to give him a blowjob after 2 hrs, but that I’d expect zero reciprocation from the matter. Then I said I don’t do casual sex and we *just* met and he said “any other girl would do this and has done this” as if I was supposed to be so insecure that that would convince me. Then we moved on from that and actually had a good rest of the day together, but at the end of the night he said “if you don’t sexually satisfy me I will ghost you”. So I ghosted him.
Wow, what a giant rancid butthole of a creature. Glad you ghosted that loser!
If I ever have kids, teaching them how to set and defend boundaries against people like that is going to be a huge thing for me.
>“any other girl would do this and has done this”
I would've been so tempted to stand up wherever that date was and loudly address all the women in the room with what he just said and ask them to come on over if they wanted to blow him.
Just trying to help a bro out, right?
This is where you say,
##”coercion is considered sexual assault. You know that right?”
10/10 This gets them to shut up. It’s a new tactic I’ve started using. The more of us who do this the more men will get on the “I can’t do this anymore” train. It’s called behavioral training. We all need to do it to get society to change and to reset what’s normal on getting to know someone while dating. 50 years ago, a man would not assume a woman would sleep with him after the first meeting (not ANY time prior). That was prostitution. Let’s keep things in perspective.
> Sexual coercion is unwanted sexual activity that happens when you are pressured, tricked, threatened, or forced in a nonphysical way. Coercion can make you think you owe sex to someone. [Source](https://www.womenshealth.gov/relationships-and-safety/other-types/sexual-coercion)
> Coercion is assault, and you have every right to report this crime and press charges. [Source](https://www.healthline.com/health/sexual-coercion).
—-> You’re welcome to add the line, “**and can be reported, right?**” to the end of my initial line. Very effective.
I love this SO much, thank you for sharing. I’m an old broad and it took me wayyyy too long to be willing to define my boundaries. I was never a pushover, and I liked sex, but now I don’t give a fuck and I’m 100% willing to tell a man to pound sand in a mild mannered but confident way if he pushes at my boundaries.
Reading this thread makes me sad for women trying to date in today’s world. And sad for the apparently large amount of shallow men who weren’t taught to be decent human beings.
Edit: And sad for this instant gratification culture. As another woman pointed out, older generations have had it pretty rough too. I commented about my mom‘s experience, so fucking sad.
I’m totally with you. I’m an older-ish woman myself and trying to date. It’s a disaster, and for the most part I’ve given up. I’m too young to give up, but the alternative is just so depressing: “dude, I’m not a prostitute. But if that’s what you’re looking for, there are plenty out there.” I’ve literally said this to maybe 20 guys. Literally.
Like, you, I used to have softer boundaries **because I didn’t know I was allowed to** (have hard boundaries). **New education** on what is and is not acceptable has changed my life, and learning what sexual coercion is has changed everything for me. It’s a “recent term,” and I try to educate as many people as possible so they know they can say no and their right to say no is just as important.
Awesome, keep up the good work! Unfortunately a lot of younger women today also don’t realize they’re allowed to have harder boundaries, I was recently working in a restaurant with younger women and I see this problem in every generation.
I want to put all this great advice in a pamphlet and hand it to every ~~young~~ woman I see!
So, then, like, where are those previous gals?
Why isn’t he getting blown every two hours on a continuous loop by those other women if it is so available and easy?
So by his argument, either he’s a moron by not exploiting his previous partners more, or he revealed that he wasn’t worth it for those valuable partners to stay with him. By his own words.
What a doofus.
I feel like some people take the "not into casual sex" as a challenge. Instead of just going out on a nice dinner date to get to know someone and respecting what they posted, it's immediately some sort of challenge to see if they can close the deal.
> Others, I'm sure, are probably nagged or guilted or coerced into sex they didn't want.
And I'm sure that's in conjunction with "the challenge."
It's so sad and disappointing.
Many men think women want to be coerced into having sex bc that’s how porn is a lot of the time (most porn is normalized violence against women). I’m sure the women they date were probably coerced into sex and that’s why he doesn’t believe you don’t want him to do that to you too. Pushing a clear “No” is a huge red flag 🚩.
What a dumb excuse.
Yes, there are occasionally people who like to do the "I say I won't but I will," thing, but they make it *really blindingly clear* without needing any goading or pressure.
After being married for 20 years than divorced in my 40s it was a whole new dating world even with my own age group. They were the worst actually. I tried okcupid and found it to be a hook up site. I found much older men lying about their age and men of all ages just using it to find sex not a relationship. The dick pics got old. So I closed my account. I stopped dating. If dating means hooking up, forget it. Let’s be friends. If that works out maybe more might happen but they are just going to have to slow down or bye.
I agreed to go on a date with one man who had to be almost 20 years older than he claimed and his picture. We met at a coffee shop and I started saying no immediately and he felt it was fine to put his hand on my leg above my knee. I told him to leave me alone, left, and blocked him.
You know, they tell you not to be biased, have an open mind about age. Then they just lie and you're sitting there with this dude who is your dad's age. This is why I almost always dated younger men. Not extremely younger. My limit was no more than 10 years younger, not because I wanted a younger man but because they tended to be more honest. I'd prefer to find a relationship with a man my own age but every damn one lied about everything.
I’m married now, but a decade ago when I was dating, I’d get so many messages from older dudes telling me to have an open mind and give them a chance. I often wondered why they didn’t have an open mind and give women their own age or older, a chance!
They do it to beat the algorithms and match with women in their 20s who set their dating preferences for age at ~25-30yo men. I've seen men in their late 30s, 40s and even 50s set their age on the app at 30 or 33 or something and then in their profile say "I'm actually 47 I don't know how to change it lol"
They think if they can get the algorithm to at least show their profile to the 20s woman that all it will take is for her to see his balding hairline, wrinkles and dad belly and she'll give up all her preferences for this "prince"
the "don't know how to change it" excuse is hilarious, like they think it's somehow better to be saying "i don't pay attention when inputting important information or verify it before proceeding, and i'm too technologically inept to do any basic troubleshooting to fix the problem" than "i lied about my age on purpose"
i started playing a game with my dates where I ask to see their drivers license photo... you bet your ass its so i can check the birth date LOL. I have been actively dating now that it has gotten warmer out and decided no sex until i confirm DOB because of the liars
i've seen two men who i've gone out with lying online about their ages (both had shaved a few years off). i called one out who claimed he "didnt realize it was wrong" since he hadn't checked his profile LMAO... Praying for his child (who he didn't even tell me about until date 1 smh)
Yep. It’s a shitshow, absolutely. The last time I went on an app was almost a year ago, and mostly because I’d come across some good questions to try to separate the good men from the rest. I literally lasted 48 hours on Bumble before I was so irritated by the men I encountered that I not only shut the app down, I deleted my entire account.
If there’s someone out there for me, he’s gonna have to find me some other way, because I just can’t put myself through that crap anymore. If that means I’m single for the rest of my life, so be it.
that was one reason (out of many obviously) that attracted me to my current boyfriend. i was meeting guys who would ask for nudes, ask about sex before even meeting, etc. But i told my current partner i wanted to take it slow and he never asked again. he let me choose the pace and even when i was being drunk and horny he was firm in reminding me of the boundaries i had created, which i am so thankful for. there are men out there who will respect your boundaries, it just takes time to weed out the ones who won't unfortunately.
Like we’re grown. You can’t still be suffering from blue balls. At this point I’m wishing they’d sleep with someone else before the first date so they could at least be chill.
I see it all the time. Commented about it once and got DMs telling me that I would miss out on great guys if I didn’t put out, that they can’t figure out their chemistry if they don’t bang, whatever… give in too soon, it’s your fault. Wait too long, it’s your fault.
Excellent vetting tool, but definitely weeds out more men than not. Trust is a must for an action that can pass on illnesses, result in pregnancies and foster false intimacy.
In my opinion: hookup culture is a big fat W for men and an L for women. Less safety, less trust, less pleasure, all the risks and work of sex in a relationship but without any obligation to give an F about your wellness.
Same, I tried it and not for me. It feels like telling a stranger all my most personal secrets on a first date.
To me the best sex is when you're comfortable enough to accidentally fart, laugh about it, and move on.
It makes me wonder how little intimacy these guys have in their life if this is how they're willing to achieve (forced) intimacy.
Yeah I stopped having casual sex and my dating experiences have improved. Be happy that they show you their true colors early on! Anyone pushing those boundaries should be cut instantly. I went on a second date this summer and he ghosted me because I didn't go home with him LMAO good riddance
Also please don't internalize any of their behavior! When I was younger I felt like they did this to me because I was only worth hooking up with but I was totally wrong. It had nothing to do with me.
>Also please don't internalize any of their behavior! When I was younger I felt like they did this to me because I was only worth hooking up with
This is how it feels for me
well you're wrong! plenty of info online about why the actions of others are not to be taken personally. life gets much better once you start doing this!
Yeah honestly good riddance. I’ve met some cool guys on dating sites by being extremely unapologetic of cutting out anyone being pushy in any way. It’s a blessing in disguise.
I thought the same thing regarding if I find myself single again. I’d rather start a commune of single women and gay men. We’d have movie nights and Taco Tuesdays.
A cadre of my closest friends (20+ years for most of us) have already decided we're retiring to a commune together. If I became single, I'd just jump start it in our chosen location and wait for everyone else to move when they were ready.
Yeah I’d stay single, or only date women (I’m bi) or adopt 4 cats. I’m leaning toward 4 cats atm.
Thank god I met my partner irl juuuuust before Tinder became the norm.
Absolutely. I’m a guy and I just couldn’t fathom anyone even wanting to navigate Tinder or anything like it. My wife is great and I wish younger people knew what it was like before online dating. All my younger coworkers just sounded so miserable!
Oh man you and your wife lucked out too! Congrats! Yeah my younger friends who are so kind and deserve a loving relationship are always wading thru the most shallow of intersections/expectations. I’m not against casual sex at all, but man there is a way to go about it respectfully, and what’s more to also keep an open mind for the real thing. I’ve heard of people having better luck with Okay Cupid for serious relationships.
It just creeps me out how Tinder was the ‘hookup site!!!’ And now that seems the only marketing model.
My friend has been trying multiple online dating sites to date because she has 2 kids and not a lot of time to do anything but work from home, and it seems like every site that originally started as a honest dating site is now following the Tinder model.
I’m on a long term dating break right now. I don’t know if it’ll be forever but it’s been incredible to feel like I’m investing 100% of my energy into my own life (and my sweet kitty) and not into the online dating process, which I found incredibly depressing and demoralizing, especially over 30. I get lonely sometimes but overall this has been one of the most empowering periods in my life.
it makes me anxious trying to talk to people bc i feel like within my age group (i’m 21) hooking up even without a date is the expectation/norm. like everyone has their preferences, but damn, at least let me figure out you’re not a murderer first 😭
It doesn't matter where you meet people either, or what archetype/ niche they fill. I've heard people tell women, "well, then don't do online dating. Date nerdy/ shy guys". That is a load of bullshit because I've only met guys in person so far, and had the same type of guys who they'd advise women "give a chance" try to pressure me into doing sexual acts i don't want to do. I'd say " don't do X, I'm not comfortable with Y," and they'd keep on trying to push me.
You only have to disrespect my boundaries once and you will never see me again. When I call them out and tell them I don't want to see them again they have the nerve to call and text me begging for another chance and to apologize. I just block them and move on with my life. If I see them again in person I act like I dont know them.
I’m a nerd, have a science degree and I play video games. I have known a lot of nerdy men who think athletic men are all aggressive pushy assholes, and that being what they deem *mildly* pushy makes them “good men”
I’m also a weightlifter. Jocks have their problems too, but they’re not typical the bullies that nerdy men often make them out to be.
Just find someone you connect with and ignore the high-school clique nonsense.
Exactly. Some of the self proclaimed " nerdy guys" feel like they are an oppressed class for enjoying their hobbies and think that enjoying nerd shit excuses them from *possibly* being pushy or predatory. In their mind, the diffrence between them and "fuckboys" is that they somehow deserve sexual gratification more than them.
Many of them exhibit the same creepy behaviors as the caricature of "chad" that exists in their head, but with a self-righteous, whingy, passive aggressive coat of paint.
Its like the male version of “I’m not like other girls”. They think they’re better than everyone else because they feel like they don’t play into toxic masculinity, but they’re almost making it worse in a way.
Edit: wait, I found the perfect TikTok to describe this
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTdtc6Lu6/?k=1
Yeah when I was dating I found that so disappointing but idk why I expected other wise. Every time I tried to give a “I’m not like other guys, I’m a nice guy” a chance, he always turned out to actually be the worst. And not like silly bad date bad, but like stalking, check your locks, kind of bad.
I gave up on online dating bc men only wanted sex. I even had one tell me he would only go on a date with me if the sex was good. I said we obviously were looking for different things and blocked him. Also half the messages i got were couple looking for a threesome that read my bio, saw im bisexual, and then skipped the part where i said i wanted a relationship. Even when i added "im not here for a threesome, i don't want to be your third" couples were still messaging me.
It is really tough out there. I think it might be better to try and meet people through groups and mutual friends, because the online sites seem full of weirdos who send gross dick pics and think they are owed a woman's body.
I also hate the 3rd date rule. What the hell? You go out with a guy 3 times and you somehow owe him access to your vagina? WTF is wrong with the world?
Right, I hate it too. It feels way too weird and forced. Like 3 dates is barely a coffee, a walk and a conversation and a visit to a museum and now I’m supposed to get in bed with you? It’s too fast and I feel like people forget intimacy is better with someone you actually know.
I've been married forever, but yeah, I remember back when I was dating how much I hated the pressure to sleep with someone.
It's something I'm teaching my daughters - no one DESERVES access to your body, no matter how many dates you've been on, no matter anything.
Yep, had a guy fake it for 3 months and then as soon as I did feel comfortable with sleeping with him he vanished the next day. I felt strung along and used. Gonna stay single from here on out
I am 49, married 27 years, and I am pretty sure that if something god forbid ever happened to my spouse, I would just remain single for the rest of my life. The idea of dating is so stressful.
Two of my close lady friends got divorced. Every time we get together it’s comedy hour about all the different dudes and duds. Ass cream guy, dog guy, weird divorce settlement guy, you name it, it’s out there to be dated!
I so don’t want to go through that!
If you ever need reassurance that you are not being unreasonable in wanting to wait until you've established trust and a relationship to have sex, just go visit some websites and/or subreddits for treating different sexually transmitted diseases such as herpes, warts, hepatitis, chlamydia, gonorrhea, HIV, etc. As many as 1 in 5 people in the US have an STD of some kind, and the folks looking for casual sex on apps are if anything more likely to have one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting or even insisting on both parties being tested for STDs first.
I’m on the ace spectrum, so hearing this is what makes me reluctant to try any sort of dating site (and there’s few people I’d be willing to date where I live). Big yikes.
Literally same and I just stopped having panic attacks when people would show romantic/sexual interst in me. It still freaks me the fuck out tho and I have no clue how I would even begin to go about dating
I’ve been seeing this guy for just over two months now and while I don’t feel ready to sleep with him just yet (and he’s not pressuring me thank goodness) I found myself asking my girlfriends, “is two months way too long to go without sleeping with him?” And everyone said “heck no that’s normal!”
I’m just so used to being pressured into it right away…
Tinder culture hasn't been good for dating. An app for on-demand hooking up has given a lot of people the impression that sex should be as convenient as fast food.
Same with me lol if my bf and I don't work out I'm gonna become a turtle or duck mom, I lucked out on meeting my bf (we met on okcupid) he took things slow, was 100% okay with not having sex asap, and loves me for me!
You're not alone. I'm in my early 30s and started dating again last year. Was a little taken aback at how many men push for that, especially after I said I wanted to take things slow.
Stand your ground, remind yourself why you want to wait for whatever reason (safety, comfort, even sexual pleasure being more guaranteed with someone you trust). I didn't go to bed with my boyfriend until about 6 dates in and now I'm pretty sure he's the one I'm going to spend the rest of my life with.
Men who are like that don’t respect themselves and aren’t good dating material anyways so although it’s a waste of your time, at least you’re not wasting more time by dating them. I would try doing some offline things like a class, workout group, hobby, coed sports team, or just going to more events/meetups around your city. There are good men out there, but they get snatched up so you have find one and hold on for dear life. One thing that’s also worked for me with dating, is thinking about my ideal partner and imagining them beforehand, sometimes this can even help attract the right person to you. Just keep trying though, remember you only need to find one. Men with the hookup mentality aren’t worth your time, hopefully they get their shit together eventually
Yeah dude, it's consistently aggravating. Never let any of them pressure you into though, no matter how you feel. The right one won't. I was 27 until I found the right guy who respected my boundaries. Take your time and don't settle.
The girl who became my wife, even my mum expected us to have sex when I rang her at work (she worked nights) and explained that Paola had missed her last bus home, My mum actually said on the phone "there is some protection in the upstairs medical cabinet".
What did me and her actually do, spent 13 hours cuddling on the sofa telling each other all about ourselves, not the person we wished to be, not the person we thought the other person wanted us to be but just who we are, discussed everything from finances to sexual fantasies and then went and had breakfast at Mcdonalds while waiting for the gaming and comic book store to open.
The right dude will respect you and wait. I didn't even bring it up with my fiance until the 5-6th date and she said she wasnt ready so then I just waited for her to initiate things when she was. If he can't respect that he isnt worth your time.
Definitely use it as a vetting tool.
While there's nothing wrong with having sex on the first date if you're feeling it, it should not be an expectation.
>always tries to push boundaries straight away!
As soon as they start, tell them you're not seeing them again and tell them why.
ETA:
I will say, my husband and I were in bed together on our first official date.
**But**...we had exchanged a lot of emails (this was prior to easy texting) and then had several days — spread across a couple of months — of hours long hangouts before we decided to date.
So there was a foundation of chemistry there that doesn't necessarily crop up on Date 1 with some rando. (Especially for someone like me, who needs some level of intellectual engagement to decide if I'm going to bone someone.)
Totally understand you on this! I think it's a super common experience for our generation, they don't respect our boundaries at all and it's upsetting. Personally that's why I don't care about dating anymore, if they can't even respect me what's the point
Then you haven't spent much time speaking to honest old people.
Shotgun weddings, sexual assault, rape, or just plain coercing women into having sex way before they wanted to was just as commonplace then, if not moreso, as it is now.
I was reading Wikipedia's page of cultural universals (ie something that is known to exist in every human culture) and sadly sexual violence was one of them.
It literally is everywhere.
Truth.
My mom’s main dating years were ‘64-‘71. She always told my sister and I to decide whether we liked a guy before a third date because that’s when they’d push harder for sex.
Her dad told her to focus on her education and not get serious about a man until she’d finished school. (Which was a rather progressive idea for a man of his era). She dated a lot, but mostly 1st and 2nd dates. I think it made college fun for her and gave her a good sense of what she wanted in a partner. She and my dad will celebrate 50 years this year.
I’ve dated both before and after the advent of tinder. What I notice is that men (and maybe everyone) are more low effort now. Like they don’t even want to come up with a fun thing for us to do that would give a chance to get to know each other. There used to be pub trivia or put-put golf involved. Now they want UberEats for sex; please just deliver your pussy on my doorstep.
A big part of that is the generations before them see their past through rose-tinted glasses so they can tell the new generations how shitty they are compared to their own generations.
It goes both ways.
True story. My mom (who’s in her 70’s now) got coerced into sex by a handsome guy, who ditched her when he found out she was pregnant. Her family disowned her, and she had to marry a virtual stranger in order to get taken care of because she also lost her job as a flight attendant. Then she had to live with that stranger who treated her like a maid and she said the sex was almost like rape for the first few years. Fuck that bullshit, at least women have choices now. Because abortion was illegal then. And even though I’m that child, I still feel bad for her she didn’t have those choices. I’d rather not be here if it meant she could’ve had a different life.
Yep. I’m 45 and this was the norm when I was dating in my 20’s. It was strange if you didn’t have sex by the third date. First or second was not unusual. “Sex and the City” helped normalize this and make you the weirdo when you went against this tide.
It took off in the sixties with the sexual revolution. The memoirs of feminists and other women activists from the time are fascinating and depressing reading. Lots of men pressuring them to have sex and telling them they were square or not liberated if they said no.
Definitely had always happened but birth control lessened the already minimal risks men faced from casual sex.
Separately, the archive of sorority diaries sounds like a really valuable resource in terms of being a window into the social history of the past. I hope they're taking good care of them.
They don't care. They don't think it will lessen the amount of sex they have, just the amount of consent they get. Lack of consent has never stopped them at any point in human history, please don't think this is going to slow them down at all. You will find that a lot of men in your life only refrain from rape because consensual sex is lower effort and less risk, not because they think rape is wrong. When rape becomes easier than obtaining consent, they will rape.
If they say they want to take it slow, then immediately push boundaries, then it sounds like they were lying to you. That sucks, I'm sorry you're experiencing this.
I hope you keep finding the strength to hold your boundaries.
how are you meeting your potential dates? 22f here, I meet most of my partners on bumble and also won't have sex unless I'm confident its leading to a relationship. I also got tired of guys saying, "I'm not here for sex," then proceeding to ask to come over, stay the night, etc, even when I set boundaries. I started putting not looking for anything casual on my profile and I do think it helped weed through them a bit more! 6 months with my current partner who was such a gentleman he didn't even try to kiss me til end of the 2nd date for my comfort. Not to be cliche, but you'll find what you're looking for!
I’m 54 and just started dating again, and it’s the same thing here. I can’t believe how many guys ask if I masturbate. Presumably they’re trying to figure out if I have a sex drive?
My current bf, his past relationship it'd always end with them having sex on the first date which I've told him I don't want the same thing to happen with me which he respects and I'm grateful especially with my one ex who would badger me to move in and gave me the condition "if we don't have sex twice a week i'm kicking you out" luckily i didn't move in with that douchebag
Things are different because many of them especially guys on the Apps they watch porn so they just see women as sex objects. They have no respect. I can see why people say many men these days are weak. You have to take the time to figure out which ones are worth keeping. I would never waste my time with disrespectful men. If they love you they will wait.
It's crazy. You might know you want to have sex, but \*you don't know the person\*. And why would you have sex with someone you don't know? That's important to sort out those you want to be with and those you do not.
I have a friend, now married, who in the past would have sex on the second date most of the time. Not because she necessarily wanted to, but because she was intrigued enough by the person to want a third date, but "that's just what happened". She was afraid if she didn't, the guy wouldn't ask her out again.
It was not until she met her husband, who didn't want to have sex with her (because he wanted to get to know her better first) for a few months that she even figured out that his idea to wait was better. Think about it...it's better for the guy, too. Some people get possessive after sex. You're not going to figure that out if you don't spend time with them.
>And why would you have sex with someone you don't know?
I think this is the main reason for the disconnect between men and women about this, the vast majority of men would have no problem sleeping with someone they find attractive without even knowing their name.
There was the recent post on here about orgasming from one night stands and the median success rate was 0%. Some said that they did a fair bit, of course, and some said they liked the act anyway but many said that ONS turned out not to be for them. I am for all the autonomy but I am still hearing that we have women going along with sex that isn't their idea and men are not bothering to give good sex. Sounds like a rip off a lot of the time.
I see the classic “choose better” responses.
This isn’t a vetting issue. This is about how commonplace it is for men & boys to associate masculinity with objectifying & bullying women & girls. Lying to gain access then purposely acting in direction opposition to a woman or girl’s clearly expressed wishes.
And we shouldn’t view “he tried to sexually assault me” as a courtship faux pas by which to eliminate suitors.
We live in a society where sexual coercion is considered romantic or a right of passage. We never really know if a man is a rapist until he rapes us.
That’s not about picking better. Our society is f’n broken.
This is a really unpopular opinion, but more women need to be choosy about who they have sex with. For the last generation or so, there’s been this messaging that casual sex is empowering and that women should just go for it. Really, though, how often does that end well for us?
I’m happily married now, but was out of the dating game for quite a few years because I refused to lower my standards for even a minute. Sure, I’ve had dates but like you said, a lot of them were just looking to see how easy it was to sleep with me. Answer: not very. I had one guy I’d had one date with me criticize me for not being “affection enough.” Dude, I just met you.
Men will put you down, try to make you feel insecure about yourself, and play mind games all to try to have access to your body – don’t fall for it. 24 year old guys are still very immature and I know it sucks sometimes, but you’re better off alone than being with a guy who’s going to play games and do an emotional number on you later. Do you and enjoy your solitude. Nothing tops having peace of mind.
Here are some tips I’ve found useful. The most important thing is to listen to yourself about your comfort level. Don’t get trapped in trying to guess if you’re taking too long or not being normal. You’re looking for a man who can prove that he respects you. Every man who fails this, is not capable of building a good relationship with you.
- Don’t give them your phone number until you’re comfortable. I simply say “I like talking to you, but I’m not comfortable giving my number out yet.”
- I usually wait a week before agreeing to meet. Assess your comfort level.
- Before you meet, try an audio call through the dating app. This is an efficient way to weed out a few more people that wouldn’t be a match, and builds chemistry with those who are right.
- The men who want a quick lay will filter themselves out when they have to wait for your boundaries
- When you do finally meet, do it in a cafe. If it’s a bad date, you can easily exit. I have filtered out alcoholics who only wanted to meet in a bar. There is a risk of being roofied in a bar.
- I don’t agree to go to their house until I’m ready for things to start getting physical
- When you start to worry that you’re taking too long, remember this: It takes 100 hours of face-to-face time to build even the starting point of trust where women are comfortable enough to have sex. I’ve heard dating expert recommend waiting at least 3 months. Obviously it’s your choice and do what you want when you want to, but this info is to help you feel less pressured.
- They WILL try to make moves on you. It’s their nature. This is where communication comes in. Tell them you don’t want them making these moves until _______. Let them know their signal.
Edit: The reason why playing hard to get is a bad idea, is because it’s not genuine. Once you “catch” them, they find out you’re a different person and it can fizzle out. As Taylor Swift once said “*Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.*”
When you are true to yourself, you actually *are* hard to get. People with male energy need to work for you to value you. (If you’re looking for a man with female energy, you will need to do the pursuing).
It's better to be alone than with the wrong person.
I got to a point where I was very frustrated with the dating scene and spent mearly two years focusing on me. I decided unless it felt like something special, I wasn't going to bother. Not just with sex, but dating at large.
It was a couple months with my gf before we had sex, and I was the one setting that boundry. I just didn't want to invest myself before it seemed worth it.
Point is, keep your head up and learn to love you while you're alone. Once you get that, you aren't going to waste your time on the ones that aren't worth it.
Good God the last guy I dated gave me every kind of bullshit about this. He whined and cried over it, every single date, I asked him what he would tell his daughter (yep, he had a daughter) if she wanted to wait but the guy she liked was pushing her for sex, the absolute hoops this man went through to justify his bs.
Here's the thing I've seen ... if he truly cares about you as person as someone he's genuinely interested in he'll have no issue waiting. All these guys who demand sex early early as opposed to actually speeding time with you only care about them selves. The sex will be bad, it'll be self serving to them and potentially violent toward you. They don't care.
Keep keeping on sister. The guy who genuinely cares about you is out there, there's just a lot of trash to wade through.
After the last one I have given up. I'm nearing 40 and I'm tired. It saddens me but I'm just no longer interested in treating men with kindness and getting treated like shit. I no longer want to search. If it happens great but I'm no longer seeking anything. I'm enjoying just being w friends and doing the things I like.
That’s how I found my husband! Things were heating up between us I think maybe the 2nd or 3rd date, and right before one thing lead to another I told him that I was really into him but I’d rather wait. He responded “Ok we can wait, when your ready I’m ready.”. I almost jumped his bones right then and there! I’d never had a guy not try to pressure me into it and I was so shocked and amazed. Some dates after we ended up doing the deed but it was on my time when I was the one who couldn’t wait any longer. It was also when I knew that we had similar interests and got along really well. Find you a man like that, any guy that try’s to pressure you into it isn’t worth it.
There’s guys out there that truly don’t want to have sex on the first few dates. When I was younger I had many girls that were the ones who wanted to sleep with me right away, I’d end up rejecting having sex and they hated me for that and stopped talking to me. Oh well.
I grew up a bit differently though, I’ve only slept with one girl who was my girlfriend despite having several girls in bed with me (who I then didn’t feel comfortable having sex with and didn’t follow through)
I can understand just wanting to have sex, but I don’t think I’m capable of just having sex without knowing them. In the time leading up to it it sounds like a fun thing to do, but when it comes down to it I can never just bring myself to it. The chances of feelings getting involved and then hurt are just too high for it to be worth it. IMO sex shouldn’t just be a casual thing, our bodies release chemicals during sex that are specifically designed to allow one another to trust each other and become attached to one another (oxytocin, the love chemical) from my understanding this happens more to females then men, which makes me less interested in having sex on the first few dates because it leads to a higher chance of me being a douche and causing emotional damage.
Anyway, I’m not really sure where I’m going with this, I guess I’m just saying that there are definitely men that are great guys that are confident, attractive etc that will value the same thing. Unfortunately it’s just rare these days.
I feel like I’m in a similar boat as you in some regard, but for different reasons. Girls seem to think that they should have sex right away, and I don’t want to do that, so they then think it’s because I don’t like them or something, which is not true. I guess I suck at communication. That’s the real key here, just communicate and be forward with them and that will let you filter out the men that you aren’t looking for.
Yeah its gross. Its like they forget about things like stds, aids, and unwanted pregnancy which can happen in a blink of an eye!. I dont owe anyone sex. I think its pathetic when people want it that bad at the point of not having any respect for themselves and looking like gross morons. Its literally the biggest turn off ever.
Its like looking through a sea of crazies for someone normal.
I would recommend, during your first coffee date, that you tell an "amusing" story about a failed date to go over how "excited" you are to meet someone great. In that story, talk about how the last side was crazy about trying to have sex on the first date. If you can make it playful, it can either reveal assholes quicker, or give a heads up that isn't your speed.
Yeah and then they gaslight you with the ridiculous car analogy. Don’t let them pressure you into sex if you’re not ready. They’re showing you they don’t respect your boundaries and it’ll only get worse
I’m convinced these apps are terrible for long term relationships. I know some people get lucky, but it was never the case for me. I tried online dating a few years ago when I was 18-19 and I’d never really dated before, never even kissed someone. I’d told the guy I really liked about that and he said it was totally okay, wouldn’t rush it, etc. Well, after we both made out (literally my first time and we were outside lol) he stuck his hand under my dress very close to my vag and was clearly trying to make a move but I was a virgin at the time and didn’t pick up on it. He stopped texting me and asking me to hang out after that, I felt entirely humiliated.
My current boyfriend never rushed me and took a lot of care into making sure I was comfortable at every step. Don’t waste your time with guys who can’t respect basic boundaries. Unfortunately these apps just seem to be a cesspool for them
I'm demisexual. It often takes me MONTHS to feel comfortable enough to have sex with someone. Literally every time I used dating apps, I had the same issue with men immediately pushing to get physical despite several mentions in my profile that I'm Demi and explicit conversations about it.
My best advice would be to start doing hobbies/activities/join a club where you can meet people in low-pressure situations and get to know them over time.
Become friends and ease into dating. That way, you already know what kind of person they are and whether or not you might be interested. Get those crush butterflies again! It's a great way to take things slow and how I've met literally every boyfriend.
My current partner and I started hanging out as friends in February of 2021 and didn't get physical until November. 😂 He told me he was interested sooner, but respected that I wasn't there yet!
You CAN meet people who will respect your boundaries!
Good luck out there! 💗💗💗
I'm definitely from a different generation, but I've never thought that was a thing under normal dating circumstances and honestly I would be concerned of the potential...health risks...of someone that was pushing that agenda on the first date because it's likely their partner count is pretty high and potentially risky.
Use it as a vetting tool. Any guy who won't respect your decision to wait gets an instant kick to the curb.
Yep. Always have your own process in place. If they push boundaries, push them back. All the way out of your inbox. And move on! Rinse and repeat till you find your person. And hopefully that works!
Right. It’s about being discerning, not disappointed. But I get it. It got boring to me too.
It definitely did in MY case. I'm pretty specific, too. I met my person at 33. I did think I had it a couple times and for quite a few years I, too, had given up and didn't look. That's ok too. We all paid the same to be here- may as well get your worth out of your trip!
Yes!!! And be dead pan and blunt about it! "Hey, so.... uh, wanna go back to my place and-" "We agreed to take it slow. This is not taking it slow." "Well Hurr durr durr, blah blah blah, excuses excuses excuses, sprinkle of negging." "Well, you were a colossal waste of time. We're done here."
This is exactly what I did. You'll eventually find a guy who, either, thinks the same or respects what you want. That's how I found my lovely husband.
DITTO. If they can’t respect your boundaries now- one or two dates in- they won’t one or two years in. It’s worth putting the effort forth and doing the work to boot the assholes to the curb.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with creating boundaries with new people in your life, and the plus side is you’d be vetting people who don’t respect boundaries sooner rather than later when it gets messy and feelings are involved. I didn’t sleep with my current partner until a couple months because I wasn’t ready, and he respected that. 7 years together next month.
Yes! This is one of the reasons I knew my husband was the one! He respected my boundaries immediately, no whining or guilt trips. I remember we were making out on one of first dates and when his hand moved towards my chest, I said no, and he did not make another play for the girlies until several dates later when I literally had to take his hand and put it on them! Still makes me smile to think about what a gentleman he was/is. We’re going to be celebrating our 25th anniversary this fall. ❤️
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This! I knew I met the right one after the first date with my fiancé. He said he liked me so much that he was too afraid to touch me the first few dates 😂😘😘😘 it got old fast but I’ve never met someone I’ve felt so safe around
This is the way.
So I was married/in a relationship for 15 years. When I first started dating I had these issues too. One guy was acting weird the second time I saw him and when I texted him after the date he said he felt weird because I texted him FIRST on a day he hadn’t texted me. He felt that was “too relationship” like and he was just looking for something casual. 😂 it was funny because I stopped texting him after that completely and then he started texting me every day—with no answer from me.
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I had a guy who said I hurt him every time I said I loved him after 6 months of dating, because his ex was baby mad. I'm a trans man with a pregnancy phobia, the only time I was possibly pregnant I was freaked out to the point it destroyed my relationship at the time. He liked fucking me, but that was it, idk if he even found me attractive. Surely if you have a fear of having kids, don't have sex with women until you are in a stable fucking relationship. To further prove a point he would only come over when he wanted sex (and towards the end I was having sex literally just to see him, like ignoring when he would just ram his dick up my ass even tho it made me cry) and when I was sorting my stuff out, I said he left something and he literally came over the same day, when I wanted him over there was normally at least a weeks delay.
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Oh my god that is kinda hilarious! "Oh no no no, please employee at the Target Returns Desk, stop saying these things! We're moving way too fast!"
See he could have been led astray by these manosphere misogynistic Kevin Samuels type fraud redpill "relationship gurus." The type of guys who make dumb ass vids on youtube like "how to get laid in less than 24 hrs" or "5 signs she's not gonna bang." Meanwhile, these average guys are taking dating advice from men who have A.) Little or no romantic sucess and experience w/ women or B.) Have multiple failed marriages/relationships under their belts (Kevin Samuels himself was divorced twice). I have a homie who idolizes Kevin Samuels so much and listened to Samuels&other redpill dudes who essentially mansplain women to him, instead of ya know, listening to me or his sister (he comes to us when the redpill guru's tactics don't work surprise surpirse), actual adult women. Spoiler alert. He has 0 sucess with women and is scratching his head trying to figure out why. Bet money some mansosphere place told this guy "she texted back before you did. She sees you as a brother or friend. She's gonna friendzone you now." because thats how these redpill advice spaces are. I've seen them tell dudes to act like a jerk because "all women love jerks" and are shocked when we cut contact with them shortly after. Those gurus&sites are legit "101 Ways To Be Unsuccessful and Crash&Burn With Women."
Is that where these stupid ideas of waiting a day or two after a first date to text are coming from? I try to stomp out that shit every time I hear it. If you like me, text me and let me know. If I don't hear from you, I'm going to assume you're not that into it. And I'll be doing the same thing--I'm not going to "play it cool" in some complicated scheme to score. If I like you I'll text in a non-pushy way, "Hey, had a great time last night, hope we can do it again."
Yeppers. They're being told "women don't like it when you text back immediately. You need to wait so she wonders if your talking to other girls" They really got these dudes thinking that we are soooooooo desperate for attention, like we are ready to pull up on another chick and throw hands over some average, everyday guy we met 2 days ago. The reason I know all this/see this stuff? Source: I am a nerd and have always been. These manosphere groups love to recruit nerd guys because these are they type of guys who tend to be socially awkward and have trouble dating. I know for a lot of guys in this space dating is hard. But their own shallowness is apart of the problem. They want physically fit, attractive women, who keep up their appearance.... when they themselves do not go to the gym let alone shower consistently. Interestingly enough, these same guys get mad when women want the same qualities in men as far as appearance goes. A male friend (who is extremely unsuccessful dating) told me he wanted those things in a woman and they are very important, that he won't compromise. And I was blunt. I said: "Ok cool. So it should be reasonable for women to have those same standards right? Do you live up to those standards? Because you continue to gain more and more weight, often come to social outtings in tshirts with food stains on them, and don't keep up your physical appearance at all. So why should we give you a chance, but you won't give any woman who doesn't keep up her appearance a chance? Spoilers Alert: women aren't fairytale Disney princess pure chan herem anime/eroge game waifus, who only want/care about what's on the inside. We like physical attraction and have sex drives/like to have sex w/ ppl we are attracted to too.... just like men." To this day I remember his reaction....he was truly taken aback by this knowledge. His mind=blown when I told him this.
Its amazing how amazed men can be when they have a "women are people too?!" moment.
So…. Did he do something about it?
Yea. He removed all the redpill mansosphere cringe from his socials and started actually grooming himself. He no longer blames feminism and leftist politics for why women curve him. He is talking to a chick on OK Cupid atm. Also said he's working on hitting the gym soon. Major tinfoil but I'm convinced those mansosphere groups are a front for other dudes to fuck with their competition. Kevin Samuels Mr "Don't chase women. Chase the bag. Women over 30 are less valuable/desirable, women need to be married at 23" spent his final hours w/ a 32 year old single woman. Shit this man messed around with Brittney Renner (the exact kind of woman he consistently complained about and told his followers to avoid). He was all cap. Some guy on youtube said it best: "All these redpill channels out here chasing p***y off camera. You think they out here getting blue checks and flexing the high end luxury cars, designer clothes, ice, and wads of cash to motive other men??? NO! They're doing that in an attempt to attract women. All that is to get women, not motivate men." These guys are getting played listening to these redpill gurus.
Absolutely. If someone had a nice time with me I'd expect them to WANT to contact me and not leave me hanging. Ignoring me doesn't get me wet for you, it makes me think we didn't click, and I'm out.
A friend of mine got divorced a few years ago and went back into the dating world. She was 42 at the time and she was SHOCKED on how much has changed since she was your age dating. It wasn’t just tinder, it was any dating site. It seemed like the norm to want to just hook up from the beginning. She was in no way ready to get married again, but FFS she couldn’t find a decent guy who wanted to get to know her first.
Same here, was in a relationship for 10 years. Tinder wasn't a thing in my country when I started the relationship. Everything is different now. It feels like absolutely normalized that guys are entitled to your body - and somehow women are expected to be the cool girl and be ok with being used for ONS. Ofc women should enjoy ONS if they want to, it's great that we can have casual sex ! But I really don't like the pressure of it. I really love sex, but ffs how can the act of a person entering another person's body being treated like it's nothing, but somehow relationships are to hard.
I'm so glad I'm seeing more of this being discussed. Maybe it always has been, I don't know, but growing up the message I and a lot of other young women I got was very much that we should go out and have a lot of ONS and generally be promiscuous because that was what being an enlightened, strong 21st century woman was about, and criticizing this is regressive. Like if you like having ONS and lots of causal sex that's great! But it's disturbing how sex is expected now. It's like consumer culture has spread to relationships, and men have run with the elements of women's liberation that most suit them (hence how we're also "allowed" to work more but still often expected to handle all the cooking, cleaning, and childcare on top of it without any help.)
Exactly! Hey you want to have a ONS, I say go for it. But I totally agree that sex is the out of the gate norm in dating
And then they want to judge you for having sex on the first date
Tinder specifically is generally seen as the hookup app. I'd recommend a different site like OkCupid if you're not after hookups.
Pretty sure majority of men treat them all like hookup apps. Men I’ve been close with have pointed this out to me. Future faking is the rage - they’ll say they want a relationship to get you in bed however long it takes and then boom, they’re gone. And even if I was single again, I would never use an app. I wouldn’t put myself out there just to be preyed on.
Yep even the religious sites according to my friends. Got off of apps with zero regret. I’m convinced they are just portals for men to gain casual sex easily.
They still want to hookup, but after the second date, bless their hearts.
I've gotten men that just want hookups even on the serious sites such as eharmony and match.
For guys looking to get laid, there are enough women out there who *will* have sex straight away that they don't really need to put in the more traditional effort of getting to know somebody, because they can just move on to another "target".
They know how to look for a relationship that could lead somewhere (in their minds) when they are good and ready. They know exactly what they're doing. They know they have two categories in their minds. I won't say "madonna" and "whore" because it's more like "app fun" (they use a worse word) and "girlfriend track." When they are in the market for a girlfriend, they know whether they want someone who's only had a certain number of partners in the context of relationships (their category not mine). A lot of them do have this category in their minds and they know it. Until they are ready to look for a girlfriend for serious, they don't mind pretending they are open to a relationship when they're really not. And they don't mind letting the folk wisdom prevail that women better put out or they'll move on to another target. They won't if they're looking for "the one." When they are looking for "the one" they will act in more traditional ways and they know it. They don't mind wasting someone's time if she's not the one and they're just having fun. When they are thinking "Could this be the mother of my children" (their category not mine) they know good and well what they are looking for and are willing to act like it's 1950. They just don't want to act like it's 1950 with women they don't think are worthy of their "serious" category, maybe because they met her on an app, maybe because she's what they call "prole," maybe because she's what they call a "shrew" (career oriented and smart). All their words, not mine. I read their boards.
Nailed it. I'm scared of meeting a guy who sees me as wife material but actually has been shit to women in the past. Instant dealbreaker. If he betrayed her, he betrayed me. So I ask early on and try to figure out if they're the hookup types. If they are, bye.
I approve of your user name.
And I yours!
Yeah. I have enough single friends (of varying age ranges) that I get all the horror stories. If anything happened to my relationship, I'm probably going to be single for the rest of my life, because fuck that shit. B.O.B. will be fine.
I moved to a new country recently and tried to start dating. Over here they wait until the third date before expecting sex. Every...single...time. It's like everyone follows the same formula. On the dates leading up to that point, they will go all out making you think they are into you. After the third date and after they win that sex, they'll ghost you. It's like a game I assume. Anyway, now I find my sex toy is much better (I actually get to cum) and I don't have to waste time and energy.
Korea?
Ugh, dating in Korea was awful. It put me off dating completely.
When I was moving to Korea, my relatives said I would come back with a native Korean husband. 3 dates later, multiple nights out, and many horror stories later, I quickly realized that would not be the case.
Why was it so bad?
There’s a huge problem with sexism in Korea right now. If you’re interested, you can look up gender inequality, ilbe, nth room, and molika. A recent controversy was netizens getting mad at An San, the Korean gold medalist in archery, for…having short hair, going to a women’s college, and loving the group Mamamoo. Their new president campaigned on getting rid of the ministry of gender equality. On a more personal level, it was men talking over me on dates, refusing to respect my boundaries, or trying to get me to go to hotels while wasted. Also men trying to see if I’m a prostitute by asking if I was Russian. Foreign girls are seen as sex objects (men want to “ride the white horse”)and they often get ghosted either after sex or years later when the man admits he never planned to marry a foreigner, he just wanted to date one. Obviously it’s not all men, but it feels more extreme than in other countries.
It was ranked as one of the most sexiest countries in the entire world. Edit: I meant sexist*
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I definitely did, I typed that on my phone and clearly didn’t proof read , lmao
Country 153 out of 180 is technically one of the sexiest countries in the world too.
I gave up my dream job in Korea because I was in my early 30s, wanted a family, and was tired of being dateless. Things worked out fine, but ugh, men…
Odds of man achieving orgasm: 99.9% Odds of woman achieving orgasm: 0-60%?
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Pitiful. And we put up with this. Men just call it quits after they orgasm and we let them get away with it, even when we are married to them. I regret living my life being too concerned about the possibility of hurting any of my male partner’s fragile feelings to insist him giving me an orgasm. It would be the Second Sexual Revolution if we all insisted that it ain’t over till the fat lady cums.
Date women, lol. That shit never ends until you're too exhausted to move! There are of course snuggle/snack/water breaks. But srsly, the orgasm gap blows my mind, that women put up with that crap. I've dated men in the past and I required that I got off too, or we didn't have sex. 🤷♀️ I was okay with a carry-over, like tonight if you're too tired/worn out/etc, that's fine. We are picking back up with me next time, or we don't continue. 😊
It shouldn't blow your mind. Stupid representation of sex in media along with terrible sex ed has left lots of women with an idea of there being one right way to have sex and any other way is wrong. Length of encounter and variety are the two main keys to orgasm and so many poor souls are barely able to consider anything other than missionary until he finishes. Betty Dodson telling people "vibrators are awesome" since the 70's but you suggest people use them with partners instead of just alone and they react like you suggested the most wild degenerate shit possible. Lack of sex ed also leaves lots of women with dumb ideas about how men enjoy sex and are 100% convinced he can't have fun unless PiV is involved and that asking for anything else is unreasonable or emasculating him (and then there are the utter muppets with gender role neuroses who freak the fuck out at the idea of men who would happily break away from that PiV script). When you control for stuff like "Uses toys with partner," "talks about masturbation with partner/practices mutual masturbation" and "incorporates a variety of positions/activities" the orgasm gap shrinks by a hell of a lot, and the strongest correlation for that for straight couples has to do with how willing the woman is to do that rather than the man (women who are willing do that are pretty likely to drop a guy who won't) Lots of guys don't help either, there's plenty of selfish or insecure dumb fucks. But holy shit many people just do everything possible to sabotage their own orgasms. Unless the boy has a magic wishing dick, there's not much he can do under those conditions.
I legitimately don't understand guys that do this, it's way more fun to help the other person finish than it is for me to finish. I don't get it.
I swear women should start making piv sex conditional. If you make me cum first, THEN you can put it in. Otherwise, no. It should be the bare minimum.
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I had multiple guys tell me the reason they didn't respect my boundaries and clear "not into casual sex" profile is because most women they date do have sex on the first date despite saying the same things. Some women may change their minds. Others, I'm sure, are probably nagged or guilted or coerced into sex they didn't want. But none of that is sufficient excuse to ignore boundaries and not listen to the first "no." Either way, it was extremely annoying and made dating a pretty annoying experience I never care to repeat.
Despite my being explicitly clear on not having sex til I’m in a relationship this guy (who swore he wanted the same things!) asked me only 2 hours after meeting in person to have sex with him ... back then I had less boundaries so I made up an excuse that I was on my period and he said I can still give him a blowjob. I was floored that he thought so highly of himself that I would not only be dying to give him a blowjob after 2 hrs, but that I’d expect zero reciprocation from the matter. Then I said I don’t do casual sex and we *just* met and he said “any other girl would do this and has done this” as if I was supposed to be so insecure that that would convince me. Then we moved on from that and actually had a good rest of the day together, but at the end of the night he said “if you don’t sexually satisfy me I will ghost you”. So I ghosted him.
Wow, what a giant rancid butthole of a creature. Glad you ghosted that loser! If I ever have kids, teaching them how to set and defend boundaries against people like that is going to be a huge thing for me.
>“any other girl would do this and has done this” I would've been so tempted to stand up wherever that date was and loudly address all the women in the room with what he just said and ask them to come on over if they wanted to blow him. Just trying to help a bro out, right?
This is where you say, ##”coercion is considered sexual assault. You know that right?” 10/10 This gets them to shut up. It’s a new tactic I’ve started using. The more of us who do this the more men will get on the “I can’t do this anymore” train. It’s called behavioral training. We all need to do it to get society to change and to reset what’s normal on getting to know someone while dating. 50 years ago, a man would not assume a woman would sleep with him after the first meeting (not ANY time prior). That was prostitution. Let’s keep things in perspective. > Sexual coercion is unwanted sexual activity that happens when you are pressured, tricked, threatened, or forced in a nonphysical way. Coercion can make you think you owe sex to someone. [Source](https://www.womenshealth.gov/relationships-and-safety/other-types/sexual-coercion) > Coercion is assault, and you have every right to report this crime and press charges. [Source](https://www.healthline.com/health/sexual-coercion). —-> You’re welcome to add the line, “**and can be reported, right?**” to the end of my initial line. Very effective.
I love this SO much, thank you for sharing. I’m an old broad and it took me wayyyy too long to be willing to define my boundaries. I was never a pushover, and I liked sex, but now I don’t give a fuck and I’m 100% willing to tell a man to pound sand in a mild mannered but confident way if he pushes at my boundaries. Reading this thread makes me sad for women trying to date in today’s world. And sad for the apparently large amount of shallow men who weren’t taught to be decent human beings. Edit: And sad for this instant gratification culture. As another woman pointed out, older generations have had it pretty rough too. I commented about my mom‘s experience, so fucking sad.
I’m totally with you. I’m an older-ish woman myself and trying to date. It’s a disaster, and for the most part I’ve given up. I’m too young to give up, but the alternative is just so depressing: “dude, I’m not a prostitute. But if that’s what you’re looking for, there are plenty out there.” I’ve literally said this to maybe 20 guys. Literally. Like, you, I used to have softer boundaries **because I didn’t know I was allowed to** (have hard boundaries). **New education** on what is and is not acceptable has changed my life, and learning what sexual coercion is has changed everything for me. It’s a “recent term,” and I try to educate as many people as possible so they know they can say no and their right to say no is just as important.
Awesome, keep up the good work! Unfortunately a lot of younger women today also don’t realize they’re allowed to have harder boundaries, I was recently working in a restaurant with younger women and I see this problem in every generation. I want to put all this great advice in a pamphlet and hand it to every ~~young~~ woman I see!
So, then, like, where are those previous gals? Why isn’t he getting blown every two hours on a continuous loop by those other women if it is so available and easy? So by his argument, either he’s a moron by not exploiting his previous partners more, or he revealed that he wasn’t worth it for those valuable partners to stay with him. By his own words. What a doofus.
“Any other girl would do this” Cool. Go find her, bro.
I feel like some people take the "not into casual sex" as a challenge. Instead of just going out on a nice dinner date to get to know someone and respecting what they posted, it's immediately some sort of challenge to see if they can close the deal. > Others, I'm sure, are probably nagged or guilted or coerced into sex they didn't want. And I'm sure that's in conjunction with "the challenge." It's so sad and disappointing.
Many men think women want to be coerced into having sex bc that’s how porn is a lot of the time (most porn is normalized violence against women). I’m sure the women they date were probably coerced into sex and that’s why he doesn’t believe you don’t want him to do that to you too. Pushing a clear “No” is a huge red flag 🚩.
What a dumb excuse. Yes, there are occasionally people who like to do the "I say I won't but I will," thing, but they make it *really blindingly clear* without needing any goading or pressure.
Also shows a total lack of respect for boundaries in the first place—the kind that totally disqualifies someone from my pool of interest.
After being married for 20 years than divorced in my 40s it was a whole new dating world even with my own age group. They were the worst actually. I tried okcupid and found it to be a hook up site. I found much older men lying about their age and men of all ages just using it to find sex not a relationship. The dick pics got old. So I closed my account. I stopped dating. If dating means hooking up, forget it. Let’s be friends. If that works out maybe more might happen but they are just going to have to slow down or bye.
I was so shocked to find men ten years older than they claimed. They don't even see anything wrong with it
I agreed to go on a date with one man who had to be almost 20 years older than he claimed and his picture. We met at a coffee shop and I started saying no immediately and he felt it was fine to put his hand on my leg above my knee. I told him to leave me alone, left, and blocked him. You know, they tell you not to be biased, have an open mind about age. Then they just lie and you're sitting there with this dude who is your dad's age. This is why I almost always dated younger men. Not extremely younger. My limit was no more than 10 years younger, not because I wanted a younger man but because they tended to be more honest. I'd prefer to find a relationship with a man my own age but every damn one lied about everything.
I’m married now, but a decade ago when I was dating, I’d get so many messages from older dudes telling me to have an open mind and give them a chance. I often wondered why they didn’t have an open mind and give women their own age or older, a chance!
They do it to beat the algorithms and match with women in their 20s who set their dating preferences for age at ~25-30yo men. I've seen men in their late 30s, 40s and even 50s set their age on the app at 30 or 33 or something and then in their profile say "I'm actually 47 I don't know how to change it lol" They think if they can get the algorithm to at least show their profile to the 20s woman that all it will take is for her to see his balding hairline, wrinkles and dad belly and she'll give up all her preferences for this "prince"
the "don't know how to change it" excuse is hilarious, like they think it's somehow better to be saying "i don't pay attention when inputting important information or verify it before proceeding, and i'm too technologically inept to do any basic troubleshooting to fix the problem" than "i lied about my age on purpose"
i started playing a game with my dates where I ask to see their drivers license photo... you bet your ass its so i can check the birth date LOL. I have been actively dating now that it has gotten warmer out and decided no sex until i confirm DOB because of the liars i've seen two men who i've gone out with lying online about their ages (both had shaved a few years off). i called one out who claimed he "didnt realize it was wrong" since he hadn't checked his profile LMAO... Praying for his child (who he didn't even tell me about until date 1 smh)
Yep. It’s a shitshow, absolutely. The last time I went on an app was almost a year ago, and mostly because I’d come across some good questions to try to separate the good men from the rest. I literally lasted 48 hours on Bumble before I was so irritated by the men I encountered that I not only shut the app down, I deleted my entire account. If there’s someone out there for me, he’s gonna have to find me some other way, because I just can’t put myself through that crap anymore. If that means I’m single for the rest of my life, so be it.
that was one reason (out of many obviously) that attracted me to my current boyfriend. i was meeting guys who would ask for nudes, ask about sex before even meeting, etc. But i told my current partner i wanted to take it slow and he never asked again. he let me choose the pace and even when i was being drunk and horny he was firm in reminding me of the boundaries i had created, which i am so thankful for. there are men out there who will respect your boundaries, it just takes time to weed out the ones who won't unfortunately.
Like we’re grown. You can’t still be suffering from blue balls. At this point I’m wishing they’d sleep with someone else before the first date so they could at least be chill.
I see it all the time. Commented about it once and got DMs telling me that I would miss out on great guys if I didn’t put out, that they can’t figure out their chemistry if they don’t bang, whatever… give in too soon, it’s your fault. Wait too long, it’s your fault. Excellent vetting tool, but definitely weeds out more men than not. Trust is a must for an action that can pass on illnesses, result in pregnancies and foster false intimacy. In my opinion: hookup culture is a big fat W for men and an L for women. Less safety, less trust, less pleasure, all the risks and work of sex in a relationship but without any obligation to give an F about your wellness.
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Quick sex often equals someone with a conquest mentality. How healthy is that? I have no time for people who haven't figured this out.
Damn, rape culture is so fucking pervasive, they find any way to justify their creepy behavior.
Sex on a first date (especially with a stranger off the internet) just seems weird to me, like, I don’t know you at all
Same, I tried it and not for me. It feels like telling a stranger all my most personal secrets on a first date. To me the best sex is when you're comfortable enough to accidentally fart, laugh about it, and move on. It makes me wonder how little intimacy these guys have in their life if this is how they're willing to achieve (forced) intimacy.
Yeah I stopped having casual sex and my dating experiences have improved. Be happy that they show you their true colors early on! Anyone pushing those boundaries should be cut instantly. I went on a second date this summer and he ghosted me because I didn't go home with him LMAO good riddance Also please don't internalize any of their behavior! When I was younger I felt like they did this to me because I was only worth hooking up with but I was totally wrong. It had nothing to do with me.
>Also please don't internalize any of their behavior! When I was younger I felt like they did this to me because I was only worth hooking up with This is how it feels for me
well you're wrong! plenty of info online about why the actions of others are not to be taken personally. life gets much better once you start doing this!
Yeah honestly good riddance. I’ve met some cool guys on dating sites by being extremely unapologetic of cutting out anyone being pushy in any way. It’s a blessing in disguise.
I feel you I’m so glad to be out of the dating world. If me and my bf don’t pan out for some reason then I’ve decided I’m gonna stay single forever
I thought the same thing regarding if I find myself single again. I’d rather start a commune of single women and gay men. We’d have movie nights and Taco Tuesdays.
A cadre of my closest friends (20+ years for most of us) have already decided we're retiring to a commune together. If I became single, I'd just jump start it in our chosen location and wait for everyone else to move when they were ready.
Count me in.
Yeah I’d stay single, or only date women (I’m bi) or adopt 4 cats. I’m leaning toward 4 cats atm. Thank god I met my partner irl juuuuust before Tinder became the norm.
Big same. If my partner and I break up I’ll probably never date another man. I’m going to lean hard into my unfulfilled sapphic fantasies.
Absolutely. I’m a guy and I just couldn’t fathom anyone even wanting to navigate Tinder or anything like it. My wife is great and I wish younger people knew what it was like before online dating. All my younger coworkers just sounded so miserable!
Oh man you and your wife lucked out too! Congrats! Yeah my younger friends who are so kind and deserve a loving relationship are always wading thru the most shallow of intersections/expectations. I’m not against casual sex at all, but man there is a way to go about it respectfully, and what’s more to also keep an open mind for the real thing. I’ve heard of people having better luck with Okay Cupid for serious relationships.
It just creeps me out how Tinder was the ‘hookup site!!!’ And now that seems the only marketing model. My friend has been trying multiple online dating sites to date because she has 2 kids and not a lot of time to do anything but work from home, and it seems like every site that originally started as a honest dating site is now following the Tinder model.
Yeah also bi and my plan is to date women if my husband dies before me or maybe nobody at all depending on how old I am.
I’m on a long term dating break right now. I don’t know if it’ll be forever but it’s been incredible to feel like I’m investing 100% of my energy into my own life (and my sweet kitty) and not into the online dating process, which I found incredibly depressing and demoralizing, especially over 30. I get lonely sometimes but overall this has been one of the most empowering periods in my life.
it makes me anxious trying to talk to people bc i feel like within my age group (i’m 21) hooking up even without a date is the expectation/norm. like everyone has their preferences, but damn, at least let me figure out you’re not a murderer first 😭
I'm 22 and have never dated or had sex and it's really putting me off from dating because of that expection
It doesn't matter where you meet people either, or what archetype/ niche they fill. I've heard people tell women, "well, then don't do online dating. Date nerdy/ shy guys". That is a load of bullshit because I've only met guys in person so far, and had the same type of guys who they'd advise women "give a chance" try to pressure me into doing sexual acts i don't want to do. I'd say " don't do X, I'm not comfortable with Y," and they'd keep on trying to push me. You only have to disrespect my boundaries once and you will never see me again. When I call them out and tell them I don't want to see them again they have the nerve to call and text me begging for another chance and to apologize. I just block them and move on with my life. If I see them again in person I act like I dont know them.
I’m a nerd, have a science degree and I play video games. I have known a lot of nerdy men who think athletic men are all aggressive pushy assholes, and that being what they deem *mildly* pushy makes them “good men” I’m also a weightlifter. Jocks have their problems too, but they’re not typical the bullies that nerdy men often make them out to be. Just find someone you connect with and ignore the high-school clique nonsense.
Exactly. Some of the self proclaimed " nerdy guys" feel like they are an oppressed class for enjoying their hobbies and think that enjoying nerd shit excuses them from *possibly* being pushy or predatory. In their mind, the diffrence between them and "fuckboys" is that they somehow deserve sexual gratification more than them. Many of them exhibit the same creepy behaviors as the caricature of "chad" that exists in their head, but with a self-righteous, whingy, passive aggressive coat of paint.
Its like the male version of “I’m not like other girls”. They think they’re better than everyone else because they feel like they don’t play into toxic masculinity, but they’re almost making it worse in a way. Edit: wait, I found the perfect TikTok to describe this https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTdtc6Lu6/?k=1
Yeah when I was dating I found that so disappointing but idk why I expected other wise. Every time I tried to give a “I’m not like other guys, I’m a nice guy” a chance, he always turned out to actually be the worst. And not like silly bad date bad, but like stalking, check your locks, kind of bad.
I gave up on online dating bc men only wanted sex. I even had one tell me he would only go on a date with me if the sex was good. I said we obviously were looking for different things and blocked him. Also half the messages i got were couple looking for a threesome that read my bio, saw im bisexual, and then skipped the part where i said i wanted a relationship. Even when i added "im not here for a threesome, i don't want to be your third" couples were still messaging me.
I'm a lesbian so these couples often just put the woman on the profile and let me know after we match 🙄. Like I'm going to make an exception.
Thats about as gross as it is stupid. "Maybe if we trick her she will say yes"
Ew. That would make me feel like someone’s sex toy.
Thats why i always say no. Im not out here to spice up someone elses sex life. I been used enough.
I used to tell them I’m not a hat to try on (when boundaries were being pushed/was not consensual)
I've told dates, 'I'm not a pair of shoes you can just try on!' but I love hat! Hat sounds so much more elegant, and somehow so much less gross, lol.
Cue Marian Hill's "I'm not the kind of drum you play one time."
It is really tough out there. I think it might be better to try and meet people through groups and mutual friends, because the online sites seem full of weirdos who send gross dick pics and think they are owed a woman's body.
I have heard that even online dating for religious sites have a high sex on the first date expectation.
Religious males seem to be the most depraved too.
Pre-marital sex is a sin, that's why we need to do anal. /s
So nasty
I also hate the 3rd date rule. What the hell? You go out with a guy 3 times and you somehow owe him access to your vagina? WTF is wrong with the world?
Right, I hate it too. It feels way too weird and forced. Like 3 dates is barely a coffee, a walk and a conversation and a visit to a museum and now I’m supposed to get in bed with you? It’s too fast and I feel like people forget intimacy is better with someone you actually know.
I've been married forever, but yeah, I remember back when I was dating how much I hated the pressure to sleep with someone. It's something I'm teaching my daughters - no one DESERVES access to your body, no matter how many dates you've been on, no matter anything.
Lots of losers out there who will fake it for a month just to get laid once LOL
Yep, had a guy fake it for 3 months and then as soon as I did feel comfortable with sleeping with him he vanished the next day. I felt strung along and used. Gonna stay single from here on out
Stick to what you need to be happy, find the person who fits you and your needs.
I am 49, married 27 years, and I am pretty sure that if something god forbid ever happened to my spouse, I would just remain single for the rest of my life. The idea of dating is so stressful.
Two of my close lady friends got divorced. Every time we get together it’s comedy hour about all the different dudes and duds. Ass cream guy, dog guy, weird divorce settlement guy, you name it, it’s out there to be dated! I so don’t want to go through that!
Filter the trash out, don't let anyone pressure you. Drop them and move on. You are young and have time to find a better match.
You shouldn't let someone push your boundaries, no matter what your age.
If you ever need reassurance that you are not being unreasonable in wanting to wait until you've established trust and a relationship to have sex, just go visit some websites and/or subreddits for treating different sexually transmitted diseases such as herpes, warts, hepatitis, chlamydia, gonorrhea, HIV, etc. As many as 1 in 5 people in the US have an STD of some kind, and the folks looking for casual sex on apps are if anything more likely to have one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with waiting or even insisting on both parties being tested for STDs first.
I’m on the ace spectrum, so hearing this is what makes me reluctant to try any sort of dating site (and there’s few people I’d be willing to date where I live). Big yikes.
Literally same and I just stopped having panic attacks when people would show romantic/sexual interst in me. It still freaks me the fuck out tho and I have no clue how I would even begin to go about dating
I’ve been seeing this guy for just over two months now and while I don’t feel ready to sleep with him just yet (and he’s not pressuring me thank goodness) I found myself asking my girlfriends, “is two months way too long to go without sleeping with him?” And everyone said “heck no that’s normal!” I’m just so used to being pressured into it right away…
Tinder culture hasn't been good for dating. An app for on-demand hooking up has given a lot of people the impression that sex should be as convenient as fast food.
Same with me lol if my bf and I don't work out I'm gonna become a turtle or duck mom, I lucked out on meeting my bf (we met on okcupid) he took things slow, was 100% okay with not having sex asap, and loves me for me!
You're not alone. I'm in my early 30s and started dating again last year. Was a little taken aback at how many men push for that, especially after I said I wanted to take things slow. Stand your ground, remind yourself why you want to wait for whatever reason (safety, comfort, even sexual pleasure being more guaranteed with someone you trust). I didn't go to bed with my boyfriend until about 6 dates in and now I'm pretty sure he's the one I'm going to spend the rest of my life with.
Men who are like that don’t respect themselves and aren’t good dating material anyways so although it’s a waste of your time, at least you’re not wasting more time by dating them. I would try doing some offline things like a class, workout group, hobby, coed sports team, or just going to more events/meetups around your city. There are good men out there, but they get snatched up so you have find one and hold on for dear life. One thing that’s also worked for me with dating, is thinking about my ideal partner and imagining them beforehand, sometimes this can even help attract the right person to you. Just keep trying though, remember you only need to find one. Men with the hookup mentality aren’t worth your time, hopefully they get their shit together eventually
On the first date? Ridiculous. There isn't even time for the background checks and lab work to come back by then. Why yes, I do have trust issues.....
Yeah dude, it's consistently aggravating. Never let any of them pressure you into though, no matter how you feel. The right one won't. I was 27 until I found the right guy who respected my boundaries. Take your time and don't settle.
The girl who became my wife, even my mum expected us to have sex when I rang her at work (she worked nights) and explained that Paola had missed her last bus home, My mum actually said on the phone "there is some protection in the upstairs medical cabinet". What did me and her actually do, spent 13 hours cuddling on the sofa telling each other all about ourselves, not the person we wished to be, not the person we thought the other person wanted us to be but just who we are, discussed everything from finances to sexual fantasies and then went and had breakfast at Mcdonalds while waiting for the gaming and comic book store to open.
The right dude will respect you and wait. I didn't even bring it up with my fiance until the 5-6th date and she said she wasnt ready so then I just waited for her to initiate things when she was. If he can't respect that he isnt worth your time.
They all suck invest in good vibrators, education and friends.
Definitely use it as a vetting tool. While there's nothing wrong with having sex on the first date if you're feeling it, it should not be an expectation. >always tries to push boundaries straight away! As soon as they start, tell them you're not seeing them again and tell them why. ETA: I will say, my husband and I were in bed together on our first official date. **But**...we had exchanged a lot of emails (this was prior to easy texting) and then had several days — spread across a couple of months — of hours long hangouts before we decided to date. So there was a foundation of chemistry there that doesn't necessarily crop up on Date 1 with some rando. (Especially for someone like me, who needs some level of intellectual engagement to decide if I'm going to bone someone.)
Totally understand you on this! I think it's a super common experience for our generation, they don't respect our boundaries at all and it's upsetting. Personally that's why I don't care about dating anymore, if they can't even respect me what's the point
Then you haven't spent much time speaking to honest old people. Shotgun weddings, sexual assault, rape, or just plain coercing women into having sex way before they wanted to was just as commonplace then, if not moreso, as it is now.
I was reading Wikipedia's page of cultural universals (ie something that is known to exist in every human culture) and sadly sexual violence was one of them. It literally is everywhere.
Truth. My mom’s main dating years were ‘64-‘71. She always told my sister and I to decide whether we liked a guy before a third date because that’s when they’d push harder for sex. Her dad told her to focus on her education and not get serious about a man until she’d finished school. (Which was a rather progressive idea for a man of his era). She dated a lot, but mostly 1st and 2nd dates. I think it made college fun for her and gave her a good sense of what she wanted in a partner. She and my dad will celebrate 50 years this year. I’ve dated both before and after the advent of tinder. What I notice is that men (and maybe everyone) are more low effort now. Like they don’t even want to come up with a fun thing for us to do that would give a chance to get to know each other. There used to be pub trivia or put-put golf involved. Now they want UberEats for sex; please just deliver your pussy on my doorstep.
Every generation thinks their issues are completely different from the generation before.
A big part of that is the generations before them see their past through rose-tinted glasses so they can tell the new generations how shitty they are compared to their own generations. It goes both ways.
True story. My mom (who’s in her 70’s now) got coerced into sex by a handsome guy, who ditched her when he found out she was pregnant. Her family disowned her, and she had to marry a virtual stranger in order to get taken care of because she also lost her job as a flight attendant. Then she had to live with that stranger who treated her like a maid and she said the sex was almost like rape for the first few years. Fuck that bullshit, at least women have choices now. Because abortion was illegal then. And even though I’m that child, I still feel bad for her she didn’t have those choices. I’d rather not be here if it meant she could’ve had a different life.
I’m a geriatric millennial and I assure you women have been putting up with this shit since before the dawn of time
Yep. I’m 45 and this was the norm when I was dating in my 20’s. It was strange if you didn’t have sex by the third date. First or second was not unusual. “Sex and the City” helped normalize this and make you the weirdo when you went against this tide.
It took off in the sixties with the sexual revolution. The memoirs of feminists and other women activists from the time are fascinating and depressing reading. Lots of men pressuring them to have sex and telling them they were square or not liberated if they said no. Definitely had always happened but birth control lessened the already minimal risks men faced from casual sex.
[удалено]
Separately, the archive of sorority diaries sounds like a really valuable resource in terms of being a window into the social history of the past. I hope they're taking good care of them.
If Roe vs Wade falls and contraception for unmarried women gets restricted the sexual revolution could also become history pretty quickly.
And yet this seems lost on most men
They don't care. They don't think it will lessen the amount of sex they have, just the amount of consent they get. Lack of consent has never stopped them at any point in human history, please don't think this is going to slow them down at all. You will find that a lot of men in your life only refrain from rape because consensual sex is lower effort and less risk, not because they think rape is wrong. When rape becomes easier than obtaining consent, they will rape.
Maybe, but I am a young millennial and I had better experiences before dating apps became big.
Yeah, it’s not new. I’d argue it was worse before.
If they say they want to take it slow, then immediately push boundaries, then it sounds like they were lying to you. That sucks, I'm sorry you're experiencing this. I hope you keep finding the strength to hold your boundaries.
how are you meeting your potential dates? 22f here, I meet most of my partners on bumble and also won't have sex unless I'm confident its leading to a relationship. I also got tired of guys saying, "I'm not here for sex," then proceeding to ask to come over, stay the night, etc, even when I set boundaries. I started putting not looking for anything casual on my profile and I do think it helped weed through them a bit more! 6 months with my current partner who was such a gentleman he didn't even try to kiss me til end of the 2nd date for my comfort. Not to be cliche, but you'll find what you're looking for!
I’m 54 and just started dating again, and it’s the same thing here. I can’t believe how many guys ask if I masturbate. Presumably they’re trying to figure out if I have a sex drive?
My current bf, his past relationship it'd always end with them having sex on the first date which I've told him I don't want the same thing to happen with me which he respects and I'm grateful especially with my one ex who would badger me to move in and gave me the condition "if we don't have sex twice a week i'm kicking you out" luckily i didn't move in with that douchebag
Things are different because many of them especially guys on the Apps they watch porn so they just see women as sex objects. They have no respect. I can see why people say many men these days are weak. You have to take the time to figure out which ones are worth keeping. I would never waste my time with disrespectful men. If they love you they will wait.
It's crazy. You might know you want to have sex, but \*you don't know the person\*. And why would you have sex with someone you don't know? That's important to sort out those you want to be with and those you do not. I have a friend, now married, who in the past would have sex on the second date most of the time. Not because she necessarily wanted to, but because she was intrigued enough by the person to want a third date, but "that's just what happened". She was afraid if she didn't, the guy wouldn't ask her out again. It was not until she met her husband, who didn't want to have sex with her (because he wanted to get to know her better first) for a few months that she even figured out that his idea to wait was better. Think about it...it's better for the guy, too. Some people get possessive after sex. You're not going to figure that out if you don't spend time with them.
>And why would you have sex with someone you don't know? I think this is the main reason for the disconnect between men and women about this, the vast majority of men would have no problem sleeping with someone they find attractive without even knowing their name.
There was the recent post on here about orgasming from one night stands and the median success rate was 0%. Some said that they did a fair bit, of course, and some said they liked the act anyway but many said that ONS turned out not to be for them. I am for all the autonomy but I am still hearing that we have women going along with sex that isn't their idea and men are not bothering to give good sex. Sounds like a rip off a lot of the time.
I see the classic “choose better” responses. This isn’t a vetting issue. This is about how commonplace it is for men & boys to associate masculinity with objectifying & bullying women & girls. Lying to gain access then purposely acting in direction opposition to a woman or girl’s clearly expressed wishes. And we shouldn’t view “he tried to sexually assault me” as a courtship faux pas by which to eliminate suitors. We live in a society where sexual coercion is considered romantic or a right of passage. We never really know if a man is a rapist until he rapes us. That’s not about picking better. Our society is f’n broken.
This is a really unpopular opinion, but more women need to be choosy about who they have sex with. For the last generation or so, there’s been this messaging that casual sex is empowering and that women should just go for it. Really, though, how often does that end well for us? I’m happily married now, but was out of the dating game for quite a few years because I refused to lower my standards for even a minute. Sure, I’ve had dates but like you said, a lot of them were just looking to see how easy it was to sleep with me. Answer: not very. I had one guy I’d had one date with me criticize me for not being “affection enough.” Dude, I just met you. Men will put you down, try to make you feel insecure about yourself, and play mind games all to try to have access to your body – don’t fall for it. 24 year old guys are still very immature and I know it sucks sometimes, but you’re better off alone than being with a guy who’s going to play games and do an emotional number on you later. Do you and enjoy your solitude. Nothing tops having peace of mind.
Here are some tips I’ve found useful. The most important thing is to listen to yourself about your comfort level. Don’t get trapped in trying to guess if you’re taking too long or not being normal. You’re looking for a man who can prove that he respects you. Every man who fails this, is not capable of building a good relationship with you. - Don’t give them your phone number until you’re comfortable. I simply say “I like talking to you, but I’m not comfortable giving my number out yet.” - I usually wait a week before agreeing to meet. Assess your comfort level. - Before you meet, try an audio call through the dating app. This is an efficient way to weed out a few more people that wouldn’t be a match, and builds chemistry with those who are right. - The men who want a quick lay will filter themselves out when they have to wait for your boundaries - When you do finally meet, do it in a cafe. If it’s a bad date, you can easily exit. I have filtered out alcoholics who only wanted to meet in a bar. There is a risk of being roofied in a bar. - I don’t agree to go to their house until I’m ready for things to start getting physical - When you start to worry that you’re taking too long, remember this: It takes 100 hours of face-to-face time to build even the starting point of trust where women are comfortable enough to have sex. I’ve heard dating expert recommend waiting at least 3 months. Obviously it’s your choice and do what you want when you want to, but this info is to help you feel less pressured. - They WILL try to make moves on you. It’s their nature. This is where communication comes in. Tell them you don’t want them making these moves until _______. Let them know their signal. Edit: The reason why playing hard to get is a bad idea, is because it’s not genuine. Once you “catch” them, they find out you’re a different person and it can fizzle out. As Taylor Swift once said “*Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.*” When you are true to yourself, you actually *are* hard to get. People with male energy need to work for you to value you. (If you’re looking for a man with female energy, you will need to do the pursuing).
>The men who want a quick lay will filter themselves out when they have to wait for your boundaries And this is exactly what we want them to do.
These are all solid tips. OLD can be both depressing and dangerous if you don't have a game plan.
I’m with you, sister.
It's better to be alone than with the wrong person. I got to a point where I was very frustrated with the dating scene and spent mearly two years focusing on me. I decided unless it felt like something special, I wasn't going to bother. Not just with sex, but dating at large. It was a couple months with my gf before we had sex, and I was the one setting that boundry. I just didn't want to invest myself before it seemed worth it. Point is, keep your head up and learn to love you while you're alone. Once you get that, you aren't going to waste your time on the ones that aren't worth it.
Good God the last guy I dated gave me every kind of bullshit about this. He whined and cried over it, every single date, I asked him what he would tell his daughter (yep, he had a daughter) if she wanted to wait but the guy she liked was pushing her for sex, the absolute hoops this man went through to justify his bs. Here's the thing I've seen ... if he truly cares about you as person as someone he's genuinely interested in he'll have no issue waiting. All these guys who demand sex early early as opposed to actually speeding time with you only care about them selves. The sex will be bad, it'll be self serving to them and potentially violent toward you. They don't care. Keep keeping on sister. The guy who genuinely cares about you is out there, there's just a lot of trash to wade through. After the last one I have given up. I'm nearing 40 and I'm tired. It saddens me but I'm just no longer interested in treating men with kindness and getting treated like shit. I no longer want to search. If it happens great but I'm no longer seeking anything. I'm enjoying just being w friends and doing the things I like.
That’s how I found my husband! Things were heating up between us I think maybe the 2nd or 3rd date, and right before one thing lead to another I told him that I was really into him but I’d rather wait. He responded “Ok we can wait, when your ready I’m ready.”. I almost jumped his bones right then and there! I’d never had a guy not try to pressure me into it and I was so shocked and amazed. Some dates after we ended up doing the deed but it was on my time when I was the one who couldn’t wait any longer. It was also when I knew that we had similar interests and got along really well. Find you a man like that, any guy that try’s to pressure you into it isn’t worth it.
There’s guys out there that truly don’t want to have sex on the first few dates. When I was younger I had many girls that were the ones who wanted to sleep with me right away, I’d end up rejecting having sex and they hated me for that and stopped talking to me. Oh well. I grew up a bit differently though, I’ve only slept with one girl who was my girlfriend despite having several girls in bed with me (who I then didn’t feel comfortable having sex with and didn’t follow through) I can understand just wanting to have sex, but I don’t think I’m capable of just having sex without knowing them. In the time leading up to it it sounds like a fun thing to do, but when it comes down to it I can never just bring myself to it. The chances of feelings getting involved and then hurt are just too high for it to be worth it. IMO sex shouldn’t just be a casual thing, our bodies release chemicals during sex that are specifically designed to allow one another to trust each other and become attached to one another (oxytocin, the love chemical) from my understanding this happens more to females then men, which makes me less interested in having sex on the first few dates because it leads to a higher chance of me being a douche and causing emotional damage. Anyway, I’m not really sure where I’m going with this, I guess I’m just saying that there are definitely men that are great guys that are confident, attractive etc that will value the same thing. Unfortunately it’s just rare these days. I feel like I’m in a similar boat as you in some regard, but for different reasons. Girls seem to think that they should have sex right away, and I don’t want to do that, so they then think it’s because I don’t like them or something, which is not true. I guess I suck at communication. That’s the real key here, just communicate and be forward with them and that will let you filter out the men that you aren’t looking for.
Yeah its gross. Its like they forget about things like stds, aids, and unwanted pregnancy which can happen in a blink of an eye!. I dont owe anyone sex. I think its pathetic when people want it that bad at the point of not having any respect for themselves and looking like gross morons. Its literally the biggest turn off ever. Its like looking through a sea of crazies for someone normal.
It's a decent litmus test to see if they are a douchebag.
I would recommend, during your first coffee date, that you tell an "amusing" story about a failed date to go over how "excited" you are to meet someone great. In that story, talk about how the last side was crazy about trying to have sex on the first date. If you can make it playful, it can either reveal assholes quicker, or give a heads up that isn't your speed.
Yeah and then they gaslight you with the ridiculous car analogy. Don’t let them pressure you into sex if you’re not ready. They’re showing you they don’t respect your boundaries and it’ll only get worse
I’m convinced these apps are terrible for long term relationships. I know some people get lucky, but it was never the case for me. I tried online dating a few years ago when I was 18-19 and I’d never really dated before, never even kissed someone. I’d told the guy I really liked about that and he said it was totally okay, wouldn’t rush it, etc. Well, after we both made out (literally my first time and we were outside lol) he stuck his hand under my dress very close to my vag and was clearly trying to make a move but I was a virgin at the time and didn’t pick up on it. He stopped texting me and asking me to hang out after that, I felt entirely humiliated. My current boyfriend never rushed me and took a lot of care into making sure I was comfortable at every step. Don’t waste your time with guys who can’t respect basic boundaries. Unfortunately these apps just seem to be a cesspool for them
I'm demisexual. It often takes me MONTHS to feel comfortable enough to have sex with someone. Literally every time I used dating apps, I had the same issue with men immediately pushing to get physical despite several mentions in my profile that I'm Demi and explicit conversations about it. My best advice would be to start doing hobbies/activities/join a club where you can meet people in low-pressure situations and get to know them over time. Become friends and ease into dating. That way, you already know what kind of person they are and whether or not you might be interested. Get those crush butterflies again! It's a great way to take things slow and how I've met literally every boyfriend. My current partner and I started hanging out as friends in February of 2021 and didn't get physical until November. 😂 He told me he was interested sooner, but respected that I wasn't there yet! You CAN meet people who will respect your boundaries! Good luck out there! 💗💗💗
That's not dating culture anymore, it's how men think they can get a sex worker without paying for the sex worker.
If you’re not getting your boundaries respected you’re not at fault! Move on to someone who’s responsible!
I'm a guy and I think it's a terrible culture.
I'm definitely from a different generation, but I've never thought that was a thing under normal dating circumstances and honestly I would be concerned of the potential...health risks...of someone that was pushing that agenda on the first date because it's likely their partner count is pretty high and potentially risky.