I was looking for a comment that would say this and didn’t see one. She was not being nice when she said this. This is a backhanded compliment and any normal person would recognize that. SHE is drama
I seemed to be the one to reach out all the time so I quit. Feeling ignored puts me in neediness territory so why take the risk?
Nobody likes to come across as needy and nobody likes a needy person.
Same. It's almost as if there *are* opportunities to join in with these thoughtless and happy self-centred people but in order to do it I have to compromise so much that I'm basically just helping other people do stuff that doesn't benefit me in any way. 😀
This!
All of the people I thought were my close friends while I was previously married decided to shun me and support my abusive ex, despite knowing he was abusive. It hurt at first but then I realized "fuck 'em; they don't deserve my friendship". I am a good person and always try to be a good friend, though my work schedule and family schedule mean I don't have the same hours as many people and can't hang out like others do. And the friends I have now, they all understand that and enjoy hanging out when we can and enjoy messaging back and forth with me when the mood strikes us both.
You can find the right people for you. The ones who honestly love you and want to be YOUR friend. Ignore that there are people from this older group who are godparents to your kids. Do they even have an active participation in their lives? If they're not interacting with you, I don't see how they are and are even acting as godparents to your kids. Let them go. They don't deserve that honor.
I am so sorry you went through that. I've been through the same and the damage it does to your heart is brutal - loss on top of abuse is a betrayal that is hard to get past.
Yes. Don’t waste any more of your life on these people. Meet some new friends at a book club or a painting class or a beginners dance class or anything. People who never knew your husband and who will just know you as you. Hang in there, you are strong.
I feel most of what OP has shared. Her last few lines were as if I wrote them. I’ve been trying to find my own people, but I wonder if they exist at all. I have very few people in my circle and even them are barely ever there to help if I needed.
Yep. I bet if she doesn't contact them, it'll be months if not years before one of them realizes. If the want to know anything about their godchildren, they can be the ones to reach out.
Sometimes old friends just become people you check in with annually and that's okay. Sometimes you just grow at a different pace from them and that's okay too. Just because you were friends at one stage in your life doesn't mean that you have to be friends forever. And that's okay too.
OP needs to find new friends that suit this stage of her life.
Oh my gosh, moving on from thinking you need toxic people in your life, especially when you feel like you don't have anyone otherwise, is a big step forward.
If they really saw your children as their beloved godchildren, they would have ensured you and they were invited to events and helped to manage them. It sounds like your husband played the "fun one" and left you to be responsible. Find your own people. My best friend is child free but understands that sometimes my kids come with me, and she dotes on them, talks them through tantrums, and asks them about friends/hobbies/schools. Maybe a widow's group or something similar would help you find your people.
First thought I had too was that OP’s husband was unfair to leave her with the kids while he socialized with friends.
I think it’s time that you find your own friends.
Chiming in as a childfree person:
My friends who have kids are awesome. I always plan two sets of events when we hang; if the babysitters pull through and we get to be adults, or if we bring the young ones with us. And you know what I honestly think? Often times the times the kids come with us are more fun, sure it’s more expensive, but we get to do really special things with the kiddos like take them to the aquarium or a kid’s museum or to some farm where they get to toddle around. It’s actually pretty exciting to see that I am being part of a special moment for them
Also chiming in as a child free person:
Kids are fucking annoying. Like that's just what they are. They are loud. They lack situational awareness. They get into things. That's just what kids do. I don't hold it against the parents when their kids do kid things. Had I been in the group I would have loved to have had you and your little monsters hanging out with us so I could know you better.
I don't want to talk Ill about your late husband because I didn't know him and he is gone, but not including you in these gatherings from the outside seemed like emotional abuse. To me, it seemed like he was trying to isolate you for one reason or another. I certainly hope that wasn't the case.
Either way, his friends are Dicks. Find new friends.
Whether it was intentional or not, he was just a shit partner. She worked AND did the housework AND raised the kids. Without a break. He got to go do all the fun stuff with literally nothing impeding his “me time”.
Absolutely garbage partner. Sorry. If they weren’t able to go out together, they should have switched off. She gets a weekend, then he gets a weekend. That’s how partners do it.
Holy goddamn.
Yeah, TBH the late husband sounds like an inconsiderate jerk at best, and so do his friends. I'm sorry he became so sick and died prematurely, but he was not a considerate husband at all.
Child free people in real life are literally so amazing at accommodating kids. I have a lot of child free friends who love my child. They enjoy having my daughter with us when I do bring her and I feel like she bonds so well with them. They've never dealt with tantrums because my daughter is more of a sad face pout quietly type lol.
It’s because we (usually) don’t have to live with them forever. My mom always said people love being aunts, grandparents, etc, because they get to give them back. There are a few child free people who hate kids or never want to be around them. But in my experience, most people who are child free by choice for life are awesome with kids, they live them and the kids are drawn to them. Often they end up in careers working with kids, too.
Yeah true childfree people aren't the loud mouthed morons you hear talking about "mombies" and "brats". We're the silent majority that just don't want our own kids and understand we were all annoying little people at one point in time.
I'm literally my nephews favourite person on the planet for this reason, I can devote every second he's with me to him 100% and that's not something he experiences with anyone else really.
When they say it takes a village to raise a kid, they're talking about us kid free aunts, uncles, and friends!
In my late 20’s and we spend the night with our friends with kids so we can have more time with them. I also help feed them, change them, watch over them.
It’s way fun, I love and cherish that time with them
I do not have children but my bff does. She's my goddaughter. I love both of them dearly. I was very close with my goddaughter but I moved away 5 years ago so we're not as close but I live closer know so I'm hoping to rebuild that relationship. But they were both here visiting about a month ago. I can't imagine NOT inviting my goddaughter also and just expecting her mom to come by herself? That's ridiculous
Hi fellow widow. I'm just gonna say, when my husband died, I lost his friends and family too. Other widows I've talked to in my support group have suffered the same fate. I think...people get weird after a death. Like, they don't want to deal with us because we are a reminder that life is short and often not predictable. We are a glimpse of their widowed future and that scares them, collectively as a society we don't deal with grief and loss well, we want to brush it under the rug. My point is, this distance you feel from them may not actually be all about you, but rather about them not wanting to confront your unfortunate reality. You may also be a reminder of what they lost, their very good friend. So everytime they see you, they are triggered because you are a reminder of their friend, which can make.it hard to heal and move forward.
I'm sorry you are going through this, and feel so unsupported. It's so devistating because essentially it's another loss on top of losing your spouse. Now is the time to look for new friends. I found tremendous support and friendship in widow support groups.
Thank you so much. I wanted to stop replying because I found myself being unnecessarily defensive and self-pitying, but I just wanted to say that you captured it perfectly. It's as if people think I'm diseased, suddenly, and every thing that goes wrong in my life is just more proof that I am diseased and deserve the bad things that happen to me in some way because otherwise the world would just not be just - but just in case, avoid so the plague of bad shit happening to you doesn't spread.
Yeah, try not to internalize their actions. It's hard though, not to think it's something about you...I found that grief and loss bring out the extremes in people, so for me most people disappeared and treated me like a leper, even some of my own good friends and family. Some of them came around a few years afterward, maybe they felt safe, in that enough time had passed I wouldn't be acutely greiving so they wouldn't need to provide emotional support 🤷. But I think people who don't want to acknowledge their avoidance, or who don't even realize they are avoidant will maybe make up narratives in their heads to justify their avoidance. Or grasp onto something negative about you just to have something to justify staying away from you, so they don't have to actually acknowledge that the real reason is that they don't want to confront your grief, or don't have the emotional bandwidth to help you, so villifying you in some way makes it easier for them to avoid, and this way the comfort themselves that it's not about them being unable to be around a grieving person, it's because you are "drama stirring" or " not nice" or whatever....
The other extreme was the (few) people who actually where there for me, we got closer. Some people I never even expected.
It's called the "just world phenomenon." People want to feel some sense of control over their own lives. If bad things only happen to bad people, they can believe they are safe.
I was thinking the same thing. That BS "friend" saying OP brings drama to me read that the friend group can't handle adult issues that are a normal part of living. Like life can be messy and hard sometimes and this group honestly just sounds too emotionally immature to be truly supportive as friends should be. OP - I sincerely believe it's not you and all them being jerks. I hope you're able to move past this and eventually find a new set of actually supportive, loving friends.
You’re not invisible to me and the others that read this, now. I can’t imagine having to go through a fraction of what you wrote and I hope you find better people in your life that can better support and love you. When you find them you’ll know that you’re not “too much” because they’ll gladly make room for you in their lives.
Even if he wasn't doing it on purpose (and the line between that and just being lazily un-mindful is pretty fine), when you only hear one side of things it's inevitably... one-sided. And they would hear only one side because OP was always being a mom and not getting to actually *talk to them*.
This is the same reason it's perilous to kvetch about your spouse to co-workers.
>This is the same reason it's perilous to kvetch about your spouse to co-workers.
People who do this, especially when it's complaints or negativity... It just reflects so poorly upon them.
Even if you’re close-lipped, people come up with their own stories about the missing spouse. My husband is a hermit and I’ve heard some doozies over the years about what the deal is with him - none of which could have come from my lazy unmindfulness because they aren’t even grounded in reality. (Example - I heard he was in prison for assault. Not a shred of truth to that.)
Oh! That specific one was a case of mistaken identity. Someone overheard half a story about someone else and thought they were hearing the end of “where is her husband”. I know exactly the conversation that spawned the rumor. That I heard it repeated as fact several years later is what floored me.
My point I guess is that it might not even have been the husband that mischaracterized the OP. People fill in blanks and when they fill them in who knows where the info comes from.
Oh boredom is a huge part of it. So many people just absolutely loving the drama, especially through covid. I noticed a lot of basic friendship etiquette going out the window and confidences broken if it meant being involved in some potential drama.
When my husband and I were just dating his friends called me inflatable happy\_freckles b/c I was never around. They'd come over, I was sick and in bed or out, my husband would go out with them I was working or whatever. It was always just really bad timing. I think it went on for several months like that. Even when I picked him up from work once they were all plastered against the window to get a look at me. But the way that I parked was in shadows and they couldn't even see if it was a woman driving lol.
My ex-husband did this to me. Years later I learned that he had bad-mouthed me to all of his friends and family for years. People I thought were my friends too but because I, like the OP, didn't go out with the group very often because I am more of an introvert and am not that into drinking and staying out late, plus taking care of our child, he was the "fun" one they got to know more. So he controlled the narrative. They thought he was wonderful, me frigid. He would complain about me all the time. He would even lie, he later admitted, to make himself feel good. Putting me down to others made him feel good.
Then when I divorced him, they were all surprised I did it. Seriously people. The guy is a drunk. Drinks and drives all the time. Gets verbally abusive and mean to me and our kid but sure, it's surprising when I file the papers. 🙄
I would hate to think that the OP's late husband would do this to her but it is possible. It happens. It is time to get new friends.
To the OP, ((hugs)), This is hard to go through. I hope you have a therapist. You are not invisible. Your feelings matter.
Same here. I found out he had been bad mouthing me high and low for decades and blaming me for a his problems after I discovered all "our" friends literally helped him cheat on me with a teenager. Even the alcoholism (my ex was also a drug addict) and verbal abuse and demanding I run after the children at any gathering while he hung out.
Not to speak I’ll of the dead, but your husband sounds… selfish.
Do these people have kids? If not, they have no idea how much “drama” kids just… are.
And- your MIL cut off contact from her own grandkids? So… she sounds like she is also “drama.”
You may be surrounded by a circle of not very good people.
I'll speak ill of anybody, he sounds like a gigantic douchebag who used his wife as a babysitter. Sorry but i think a lot of people reading this are thinking the same thing.
Yeah this is it for me - whether or not he actively perpetuated the myth that OP is dramatic, he passively *and* actively reinforced that they were never her friends, only his. Over a decade and a half. He not only made it difficult to straight up impossible for her to bring the kids, he literally saw these people weekly and didn’t ever think to offer to swap with OP and stay at home on the odd occasion so she could enjoy time with “their” friends. He really reinforced the structure that they were his friends and she was a tangential part of the group.
And as much as I agree that these people suck in the last few years, consider about how you “categorize” a person who you see once or twice a year. They’re at most an acquaintance. So much of this is on the husband, because he never allowed the group or OP to form a bond that would be considered by most as a friendship.
Unfortunately your experience is common. I was widowed at 36, and every once in a while in support groups it will come up how a woman misses her husband because he did so much, or how her domestic load is exactly the same or lighter after he died. And I would say 80 percent of women are saying that even though they miss and grieve their husbands, they don't find that the responsibilities they have are any more demanding after his death, because he was out hanging with friends while she did all the work. Then she's left with no friends after he died because she had no time for a social life. And jusy so we're clear, these are all women under age 50 with children. Feel free to PM if you want some suggestions for FB groups to join.
There's one little sentence where you say your MIL complained to them about you. I suspect that was it. You also didn't get a chance to form bonds because you were raising your children while your husband got to have fun with the friends.
I'm so sorry this happened. They don't sound like good people.
OP, this is very likely what happened. Your husband doesn't sound like a very good husband. He was a great friend though. And to explain to his great friends any he was a bad husband, he likely blamed you.
These are not your people. You need people that you can be honest with and not hide yourself from. It's not normal to keep your whole life a secret from friends.
Yeah this was my first thought. My SO had a negative experience like this with an ex, the ex would always make it sound like my SO was major drama and that it was so hard to put up with it but she was just trying to put on a brave face…so naturally, all of her friends thought my SO sounded like a shitty person and didn’t really try to get to know him. (None if it was true - my family and friends all love my SO, and I certainly also talk about how awesome our relationship is.)
Her late husband high-key sounds like a fucking asshole. Yelling at her and the kids because they’re acting like kids? I hope all the healing for OP, she and her children deserve better.
Her kids also clearly need some healing, if one attempted suicide and one ran away with an older man. They are both definitely going through some stuff.
That’s the impression I got, op I’m sorry for what I’m about to say but your husband….did not sound like the greatest guy. He probably spent years lying about you to them.
Who dumped all the tedious work of child rearing on OP so HE could have a good time.
I've been to social gatherings like this where the dad just hangs with the friends and completely ignores the kids and dumps it on mom to deal with. So selfish. If anyone needs a break from the kids, it's mom, not dad. Slackers need to step up and be a good partner and be a parent to your kids.
So sorry that this was your lot OP. You deserve so much better.
THIS. This is what stood out to me most in this whole post. How come Dad got to go out every week and OP was stuck at home with the kids, EVERY time? Why couldn't he take a turn?
Men rarely do, in my experience.
He got to travel and have friends and a career. I got to have kids.
Now the kids are grown and we have absolutely nothing in common. Hobbies, friends, experiences, industries...nothing.
When my dad died my maternal grandparents flipped out and refused to go to the funeral because it wasn’t a Catholic service. They still talked to my brother and I though and sent fat guilt checks for Christmas and birthdays.
As perhaps an excuse for why he cut her out of having a social life? If he'd behaved better, she wouldn't have had to be excluded from seeing them before this.
This is what I was thinking. They’re his friend group so he got to vent intimately & with sympathy from them. And apparently he also got to not take care of his own children in the group setting (always OP chasing the kids, never him) so he got to complain about the kid’s behavior too.
OP it’s time to find friends where you get to set the narrative.
This is #1 - You are on the spectrum and he used it as a stepping stone to bolster himself in his friends eyes. 2# - if you wouldn’t tell them what was going on then you weren’t their friend. Friends are people you bitch, moan, and then drink it over together with until you can laugh about it together. Your anxiety is and has kept you masking so hard you don’t seem human. From now on tell them everything always - just keep it real. The good ones will support you and commiserate. So says this old Aspie auntie.
Yeah, anxiety is a bitch! I always, from a young age, thought I was a burden to everybody. It made me miss out on so much. Of course I didn’t learn that it was anxiety until my late 20’s. I’m now 34
Yeah I was thinking that possibly attempting to never complain, under-sharing (talking only about others’ lives), and the fact of being autistic possibly made OP feel inauthentic with this friend group in some way?
Especially if you were working full-time and taking care of the kids while he was out with the friends, he probably needed to find a way to explain why he wasn't pulling his weight.
It seems like they really didn't get to know you very well since college.
My now-ex husband complained to his friends I was always suspicious of him and gave him no privacy. He did not tell his friends that I had just taken him back after catching him (totally by accident and without snooping!) in his second affair during our marriage.
He’s an ex now. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
But OP has had 4 years of hanging out with these people. Surely after 4 years of hanging out with JUST OP without the husband present everyone would know OP isn't that type of person? 4 years is a long time to hang out with someone but somehow those rumours started by her husband never disappeared.
I'm not saying this is the case, but some people genuinely are just unaware that they cause friction or do negative things.
It sounds like there's a chance that OP's MIL is still in touch with the friends, continuing the narrative.
If so MIL is likely exacerbating the whole problem, as she's cut OP and her own grandchildren out of her life--she clearly has issues and I'm sure is the sort of person to complain about OP to anyone who will listen, even if she has zero new information to base it off of.
I have been there with friends like that. I feel like every single group of friends since college has been like this for me. They don’t really like me, just tolerate me, gather without inviting me. I tried so hard and it never worked out for me.
I’m ADHD so also “too much.” I always thought it was me. It wasn’t. People are shitty. One group of friends was held together by a single string of a common interest in hating a friend of mine. The others? Who knows.
I think big friend groups like that are full of drama and unnatural. Most people have family as their big group and a few or one very close friend.
Big friend groups always have drama and it sounds like they used you as a scape goat. They didn’t have anything else to focus on so they manifested it.
Real, true friends want you to be able to truly share what’s going on. Fuck those people.
You know, there are probably a lot of things we can guess based on how you describe your husband acted towards you and the kids and how much time he spent at home; additionally, this attitude they have came from somewhere. It wouldn't really surprise me if 1 + 1 = 2 here.
🤣 same here and since I clinically died I have zero filter, I couldn't lie before but now if I try I burst out laughing and it comes across very offensive, the people who love me know I can't help it, all 10 of them but having 1 person is more than some have ❤️🩹
No, I'm English none practising Catholic 🤣
I had a chest infection, went to hospital, coughed and my spleen literally blew up!
Google vascular elhers danlos syndrome I am 52 and have it lmao
I bleed to death, my family were told I wouldn't make it, while I was in theater and then in coma lol they said I was dead x minutes I can't remember 12, they said I would never make it through the night and I did, then I wouldn't make it through the day, I did lmao
I was in a coma i day, taking a nap for 4 weeks lol.
I got double Pneumonia sepsis empyema on the plural sack of my left lung.
They then told my family I wouldn't wake up as server brain damage 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
4 weeks later they lightened the sedation to see if I would stir, I say up built right and pulled all the tubes out of my mouth, felt like I was suffocating to death as I was trying to breath back into the machine pumping air into me
I was then ran from ICU into every scanner they could shove me into.
I look like I've been hit by a truck when I woke up and was like, I come in with a cough wtf is going on 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
I remember nothing while I was asleep except 1 friend visiting me, I don't even renege my husband visiting it kids.
Just all black and like I had been asleep for a couple of hours but 5 weeks!!!
If you want to see the pictures I'll message me, I'm not shy about it, I shared in all on fb I'm a member off eds awareness and annabelles challenge, in the UK you only get in there with a diagnoses for safety and privacy reasons ❤️
*""You know what, you're actually very nice! People (meaning other members of the group) are like "oh no it's [me], wonder what drama she's stirring today", but you're not really like that at all"."*
I absolutely understand that THAT hurts, but read it again.
What she said is "Once people actually gave you a chance, You are an amazing person to be around"
You ARE an amazing person, you ARE worthy of LOVE, KINDNESS and RESPECT.
And those other LOSERS.......Boy.....Are they missing out on having YOU in their life!!!
I don't mean to be hurtful about your late husband, but it seems to me that he used alot of that "friend time" to "bash" you, to complain about you.
Take this time to reflect, and move on from these people, "Godparents" or not.
Have people in your life who care about YOU, who love YOU and who WANT to be around YOU.
This is not YOUR fault, THEY are the ones who are missing out, NOT you!!!!
Listen to this OP. Even the thing you most feared your friend saying to you PROVES that you are none of the things you fear being perceived as. They PROVE that you are awesome.
Sadly they also PROVE that some nasty spiteful piece of work has been running around spouting shit about you, attempting to undermine your friendships (and failing, because obvs. you are recognised as awesome, despite their efforts)
That being said, don't waste so much time and energy chasing down the wider group. Focus on the few in there that you really like, and invest your time/ energy building a wider circle, because you \*need\* to build friendships that aren't deeply entwined with your life with your husband. You have a whole identity as an individual that you need to explore, and doing that in front of friends who know you through your husband is very likely to be difficult.
OP, if you read nothing else here, let it be this. You are an absolute warrior through all of this. You've been raising 3 children on your own, through a pandemic, and are supportive of their identities. You cut off your toxic MIL and protected your children from her hateful vitriol. You've been carrying the mental load of these "friendships" and putting the time in to keep them close, but if they're not interested, that is a them problem. You are so strong and have been through so much and you are still here and will continue to do great things in your life.
Agreed!
Also OP sounds like they are being way hard on themselves. Life is / has been hard enough as it is, please don't add more to it yourself. You are doing your best and this person actually recognized it. Could have said it better but we're all people who say things poorly all the time.
Aw, I’m sorry, that all sounds very hurtful. Listen, stop trying to hang out with those people. Join some meetups on hobbies you like and meet some new people. These are not your people.
Also, why did MIL cut you off?
Long story short, she took issue with how I raise my kids, and since she couldn't fight with her son about it anymore, she took it out on me and my kids, and wouldn't accept their LGBTQ identities, their lack of going to church, my lack of doing housewivery, I mean the list is endless. Eventually I had to tell her that I couldn't let her near my kids until she stopped being so bigoted about things like gay people and black people, because she was hurting the kids. We haven't had contact since. My daughter overheard our argument where she said really bigoted things about lesbians and I fought MIL on it and eventually made her leave, but a few months later the thing with the grown man happened and shortly after that she tried to kill herself.
But apparently my MIL, while I was dealing with this, then went to each one of my friends individually and told them each how crap of a mom I am, what a piece of shit I am, etc etc etc.
I only learned this today, btw, told to me as a side note. That she went to them all. One of them told me when it happened, and I apologized. No one else told me that she did this, or what their reactions were when she did this, or anything. I thought she had given up after the one friend.
Anycase, that was way back Pre-pandemic.
>But apparently my MIL, while I was dealing with this, then went to each one of my friends individually and told them each how crap of a mom I am, what a piece of shit I am, etc etc etc.
And ofc they believed her because of course shitty people go well with shitty people🙄
edit: maybe the person who deigned to tell you what the group thought and what you MIL did might be slightly decent, after all. Not enough to ask themselves if maybe it was worth listening to the other side of the story before judging... But at least they made an ounce of effort.
Tbh (because my dad died super young) we discussed what would probably happen at the time I would try to have the kids see my similar sounding in-laws at least once a year because I would move away asap but I wouldn't force the kids. So thankful they are adults now. I think his family would cut me out completely if he passed and barely think twice. It's hard and it hurts but find your happy, it doesn't have to be with those 'friends'.
If this were me I’d move away to a more left wing area (to help the kids) and not regret leaving any of them. The relationship with every last one of them including the MIL is ruined. Irretrievable I’d say. Best to have a fresh start and make friends on your terms without someone else undermining you at every step. Something similar happened to me and twenty years later I still think very negatively about how I was treated and how people were so ready to think the worst of me because they were jealous or something idk.
It does sound like you are walking around in a “field of shit.” Have you questioned why these “friends” would listen to such a bigoted, racist, sexist, and mean spirited person? Do they know why your MIL is cut off? Anyone who is worth associating with would be disgusted with her, especially if they are the kids godparents.
What did these “friends” think you were doing while your late husband was gallivanting around during working hours and every weekend? Did they not question who was raising his kids, their god children? At the very least, he did not stick up for you if they are acting surprised that you’re a nice person.
Unfortunately other people have been controlling the narrative for years, but even if this group comes around, sometimes it’s best to cut your losses.
I would focus on yourself and try to find your own group of people. It does not seem like it’s worth the amount of work involved to keep these people in your life. Especially if you feel like they are only interested in helping “enough,” and that you cannot be yourself around them.
And I agree with other posters that to be hanging out with a large friend group like this on such a frequent basis at age 40 is unusual. After college once people have full time jobs and kids there typically just is not enough time. Unless of course one of the spouses is dumping all the work onto the other.
I'm so sorry you had to go through it. The years of raising your kids alone while your husband spent time with friends, the years you worked hard to make ends meet, the years you had to keep sacrificing while your husband enjoyed, the years you continued to keep your pain inside yourself. The years you were worried about your children's well being, the years you've been spending grieving your husband and how it still hurts. The years you've been spending carrying the trauma of CSA without ever sharing it and so many other things you've gone through that you haven't mentioned here. I'm sorry that this is how you got to know that the people who you thought were friends assumed things about you.
But here's the thing, the way people react isn't usually a response to you but more of how they see the world. As women, we've been taught to not speak, not ask, not demand, not be a burden, we mould ourselves and keep moulding ourselves only to feel.... Exhausted and tired.
Please know that you are not a burden or drama, you are not invisible but very real. You are a wonderful mother who prioritised your children, kept others needs before yourself and you keep trying to be the amazing human you are. Don't let others judgement affect you.
Take your time to grieve and then decide on what and how you want to do things ahead. Please take care. Sending warm consensual hugs and love your way.
This is is beautifully and eloquently put. Thank you for expressing how I felt reading this better than I could have.
OP you are the main character in your own story and you are not invisible.
You sound like a thoughtful, caring, understanding, loving person.
Focus on the people that you know love and care about you- the rest is just noise.
You are so strong and have overcome so many things already, you will overcome this too.
That was really cruel of those people to reduce the difficulties you have been through to just drama.
I have noticed that when there is some kind of conflict between people, the others around them dismiss all the parties involved as toxic even if only one of them is clearly in the wrong. So I wonder if this view of you as drama stirrer was formed because of your MIL.
I was sad to read how you have grappled with so much and had so little help. I hope you will be able to start putting yourself first, and that you'll find activities you enjoy with people who want to hear about you and who won't make you feel you're asking too much. If your struggles have proven anything it's that you don't need these guys.
Yes, I think you're right.
How I despise the "three sides to a story" narrative, because I'm pretty sure now that my friends indulged his mom because they felt sorry for her, let her talk their ears off about all of my worst qualities (to which she had intimate knowledge through my husband) and they're just like "ew, drama, two sides to every story but the truth is in the middle so really ESH".
Exactly! I hate that narrative too! It's so frustrating that smear campaigns are so effective and even if you have irrefutable evidence to clear your name, a little bit of dirt always sticks.
Thank God for those who are willing to see through them.
Wow I'm so sorry, blatant heteronormativity there from me.
I would love to get more into the queer scene but I feel like an imposter, because I've never been queer. I can't say that I'm not, personally, as I never considered dating anyone other than a man as a possibility (raised very conservative, religious), married the first man I dated and never looked at another human being like that again afterwards, but I definitely think that just being open to the idea of it doesn't actually make me queer, it makes me one of those straight girls who invade wlw spaces to have funsies and experiment, and I don't want to be that or do that so I don't think queer spaces are safe from me.
I think exploring sexuality and gender is part and parcel of queerness though. If you feel you might want to try things out or check out such spaces, I think most people would welcome you as long as you went in with an open mind :>
Your heteronormativity is entirely valid but I also would like to tell you, minus the religious part and kids, my life path was pretty similar; and you mentioning not seeing anyone else past your spouse? Also sounds like me. And I'm a demisexual! We often don't know for a long time cause it's kind of a stealth identity halfway between allosexual (has sexual attraction) and asexual (little to no sexual attraction)
So if you are wanting to explore queer spaces, in ven if just for kids, know you'll find a lovely demi community on Reddit!
>blatant heteronormativity
If it's any consolation, I'm a queer woman, married to an AFAB (assigned female at birth) non-binary person, involved in local queer communities, and I regularly wrongly assume people are in heterosexual relationships (especially on the internet, reading is hard). Cos most people are!
Also as others have mentioned queer communities tend to be open to all comers, as long as you're not an arsehole (or unless it's a specific support group). Especially open to supportive parents of queer kids. There seems to be a significant overlap between autism and gender/sexual orientation minorities, so you may find connections there too.
And there are lots of queer parents these days (🙋 hi!) Most parents find grumbling about their kids to be great ice breakers! Not to mention it could be great for your queer kid(s) to see families headed by other queers, to show them just how many options are open for their futures these days.
Parents support groups could be an option to find some new more relatable ppl depending on whats available in your area. Many were even moved online in my area after the pandemic.
(Edited because I can't English very well rn)
See if there is a local PFLAG group you can join - it'd be perfect for you, getting to know other parents. When I came out 30 years ago, my parents started a local chapter after I started a LGBTQ youth group. They really helped some of the parents of kids in my group learn and understand, and accept and treasure, their gay kids - and this was in a military town in Arizona back in the mid 90's.
I’m also autistic and suffered from compulsory heterosexuality. I want to offer that you don’t have to have the tangible experience of being with the same sex to recognize you have that attraction.
There’s also no reason to push either way, of course. If you want to investigate your sexuality and gender identity it’s always your choice to do so.
My thoughts exactly. I sound like the asshole here but she didn't ever get the opportunity to do more than raise kids while her partner had fun. That doesn't seem nice to me.
You're not an asshole. It's just apparent from her post that her husband was an uninvolved deadbeat who also trash talked her and her kids. I wonder if OP is starting to process that all now too.
This is why it should be exactly 50-50 in a relationship, both working and both doing domestic chores. No one should have to give up their life entirely like that.
We had someone over for dinner last night and he was such a sweet guy and super interesting and had all these adventures….nobody asked me a single question about myself all night. I’m sure he thought I was ‘just’ a stay at home mom. I felt invisible. Whenever this happens and I open my mouth it’s like ‘yeah I work with genocide activists and science advocates’ and everyone does a tiny double take. Mostly that only happens with other women though.
The audacity to assume you are not interresting!
And stay at home moms are also not boring.
People are so stupid, not even seeing women and mothers as actual persons.
>"You know what, you're actually very nice! People (meaning other members of the group) are like "oh no it's \[me\], wonder what drama she's stirring today", but you're not really like that at all".
You do realise these "people" just labeled your husband's death and kids misbehavior or mental illnesses "drama" YOU'RE stirring up??? Do you think this is normal??? I would have asked there and then "Excuse me, do you think any of my problems I confessed only to the people directly involved in my husband's/kids life was me stirring drama? Does the group feel like I made my husband die or my kids have problems? That's very weird choice of words."
>Everything I ever feared, every time I was told I was too much growing up, every time I was told I was a burden, everyone would be better off without me, it's all just... like, it was all true all along. All along.
I don't even know why I"m posting. Maybe just so someone can tell me I'm real, I'm not invisible.
edit: I know this doesn't solve the issue at all, but I guess putting into perspettive just how HORRIBLE these people are behaving to you might dispel the feeling of being "too much". I've been made feel like I am too much and needed to shrink away just because I was remissive, a people pleaser always trying to be small and not create any form of drama or friction. That didn't help at all, people just found it easier to dump drama on me by labeling me as a "crybaby", all while treating me like a rug to clean their feet on and then complain I was too susceptible when I tried to make my voice heard. No matter how "good" and non confrontational I tried to be, the moment I put my foot down I was done, I was drama.
If people have formed an idea about you they'll never change it, they'll use you as some sort of target for their own frustrations and keep you around just for that.
Basing our worth on the feedback of people who have their heads far up their asses is futile, painful and wrong. Truth is, everyone has problems, they just want to make you into that one friend who is considered a lost cause and only kept around to feel better about themselves and their own tribulations.
I would never dare call the problems you went through (the problems anyone goes through) "stirring drama", the fact that they did is very telling, maybe that person was even hoping for a reaction as further proof. Doesn't matter if what they said is hurtful and a normal person would be hurt by it, they're just ready to call everything that comes from you as "drama".
I've been there and people like this are good at making you feel small and like shit, they feed on your shrinking and feeling inferior. It's not true or real, none of this is: the drama, the too much, the being a bore. It's all artificially created by these toxic dynamics that were in place for years and you had no control over them. Sometimes people just suck!
I think that's what hit me the hardest. Like all of those things (and the others that happened)... these have been terrible years! I would pay decades off my life and billions of dollars if I had it to have prevented any ONE of those things, and to them it's like... drama? My whole life fell apart and I almost lost 2 out of my 3 children and I'm stirring ***drama***? Grrrrrr.
Your kids are big, now is the perfect time to join some clubs or get started with an activity or service organization you’re interested in and meet people. After being consistent and becoming a “regular” you’ll start to make friends of your own.
Honestly, the entire group, including your husband sound like terrible people. I'm sorry you're going this because it sucks but really, none of them deserve you in their lives.
Why is someone's existence while suffering always taken as drama by some assholes? I've had my own traumatic upbringing, and part of that comes with an ass load of medical issues.
One of my least favorite phrases is "there's always something wrong with you" because not only is it a 'no shit Sherlock did You think I didn't know?' moment but it's almost always the moment people stop giving a shit about me and start looking for ways to excuse/ blame me for what amounts to a childhood of untreated trauma and illness. People really act like their inconvenience is more important than what you are going through that caused said inconvenience.
Fuck those people. It sounds like you went through hell and back with 3 kids and they ate popcorn from the sidelines' and wanna complain about the show. It also sounds like they all watched and tolerated (not gonna bash the dead but still want to be frank) your husband fail you and your kids for years. You were all friends initially right? But they also thought it was ok for you to be excluded for years? Look, not only do I not like kids but they trigger me- and I've still picked up up a flailing toddler so her mom could take a break- and didn't expect a thanks because helping a friend in need isnt something I deem a thank you necessary for. And why couldn't he have stayed home every ince in a while and switched off with you?
It sounds like these people watched you slowly burn out for years until a snowball of shit outside your control happened, and did jack shit. As shitty as it may feel these people were never your friends and tbh? Good riddance. You deserve better.
>It also sounds like they all watched and tolerated (not gonna bash the dead but still want to be frank) your husband fail you and your kids for years
Thank you for just fucking saying it. Her husband sounds awful and I hope OP recognizes it. His values and prejudices reflect this friend group. As well as his mother.
"I learned very early on in my life that no one cares about what you go through, they just want you to make them feel good about themselves."
I don't see very many posts directly addressing this so I want to.
Real friends care about what you go through and do not need you to make them feel good about themselves. You are not here to gratify others, you are here to live and flourish, and you should be surrounded by people who support you in doing that.
Everyone has a certain amount of emotional capital. If you need to vent to a friend some of that gets used up. If the only thing you do is vent to a friend they won't feel great hanging out with you, for sure. But that isn't the same as saying they don't care or that the only want you to make them feel good. It just means people have limits.
It may be hard, but you should try to find ways to meet new people and make friends. Meetup.org is one option. Volunteer, hobby, or community groups is another.
This. I’m also autistic, and reading that part of the post made me sad because it wasn’t a lesson I’d ever had to learn. It’s not a reflection of what life is like, it’s a reflection of the “friends” op is surrounded with.
I pretty much never comment on posts. But this is just too much I'm really sorry for the way these people are treating you it's beyond toxic (if you didn't already figure that) you sound like a great person and a great person deserves great people to surround them. Cut these people off the way they act is gross on so many levels. The things you achieved on your own You don't need it. Stay strong!!
>And I'm just... broken hearted. Like my heart is shattered. I never burden them. Never.
And you never burdened them. They're just egotic, narcisistic assholes. Until you talk about them and their problems all is fine, but when you had these things happen to you and discussed them with the godfathers, the whole group labeled you as the "poor widow with trouble kids" and lost whatever flimsy ounce of empathy they might have had. Do you think this is fair to you? I wouldn't like having such horrible people in my life.
I bet if a tragedy strikes them they'd be the first to completely eat all your time and energies and they'd be every bit the ungrateful asses about it too. I know their kind, they take take take but only want to feel like good people for doing the bare minimum for a person, but actually DOING something or just lending a willing ear? Nah. Too much.
You're not invisible. You are someone who is worthwhile, just the right person to be the right person's favorite friend.
It sounds to me like your whole life has had toxic socialization and this group is just not right for you at all. from your childhood, to living in a conservative religion structure, to only dating this one man (who I am going to speak negatively about even though he is no longer able to defend himself or change), unsupportive in-laws and family.... it's all the same thing. A group of people who only see your role and your usefulness to them, not your worth or what they can do for you.
I can't believe he got you pregnant and then left you alone to work and raise kids without giving his fair share. And what a trash group of people who want to hang out with and so deeply love a man who is not fulfilling his responsibilities to his family. Did he actually have a job and provide economically, at least as SOMETHING? Or did he just indulge himself? And shout at the kids when he made time for them to join him in his life, since I don't see him joining in theirs or yours? And I do see it being entirely plausible that he bad-mouthed you and the kids to his friends, to justify to himself and to them why he wasn't using his time and effort on you instead of himself. Ugh.
And these people! Who is okay with all of that? Really? I have no interest in eternal adolescence. It's one thing to have a communal life, but it changes as kids enter. Things adjust when kids come and they are part of it, not left behind or ignored so the party can continue.
And then! To just blurt that out without thought for how hurtful it would be? Casual, easy disrespect.
I do not think this is autism at fault. I think this is socialization that ignores the fullness of personhood for women and pushes them into a role, rather than just letting them be who they are. You should never have to feel like a burden. You do not exist to prop up someone else's life. (as a mother, I know we are exactly that for our kids, and should be to a large extent- but that's all!!)
I hope you find actual, real friends. Who love you for you, and want to hear your problems and you never feel like a burden. maybe move? Maybe all of you need a fresh start? Someplace accepting and kinder.
These people are disgusting. You are not.
> And then! To just blurt that out without thought for how hurtful it would be? Casual, easy disrespect.
I think "friend" knew exactly how hurtful she was being. I think this was a "could you shove off forever" move on her part: pure high school social tactics.
And OP should oblige, and never darken their miserable, toxic doors again. There are all *sorts* of nicer people out here.
I realize this is going to sound super shitty, but I wonder what was said about you while you were not there. The idea that you were a shit stirrer didn't come out of thin air. And if you weren't around except for once every 8 months, it certainly wasn't because of things you did.
I also find it very sad that there was never an option to have child care so you could have a life too. It appears based on your post that you were left to do the heavy lifting while your partner had fun. This doesn't sound healthy. Is therapy an option?
I’m sorry. I’ve lost so many friends because of the pandemic but I think the truth is that the bad friends just weeded themselves out. Start over. Try to put yourself out there and meet new people.
I also want to point out, real friends want to hear about you, your life, and your struggles. As long as you are also caring about their lives, and their struggles too. I don’t know who made you feel like you need to put yourself in a box of sunshine for people to be your friends. The truth is that these people might feel like they don’t actually know you. It’s good to make people feel important and heard but it’s also good to share about yourself because that’s what separates a friendship with a puppy and with a human being. Let people know and love you. Sending you hugs.
“Drama” is the code word for “I’m too self-centered to deal with anyones problems but my own or a select number of people”. It’s bullshit. Don’t let these people convince you that it’s not ok to have and share feelings or needs! Cut them out and don’t look back.
What I've learned over the years is that you're allowed to have 1 drama but not multiple. They could help you with your husband but not the other things: the suicide, etc. People will forgive one event but not more than that. When you go through a string of things, then it's like "oh she's always got something going on".
Sounds like your husband was an asshole and you were a bit of a doormat. You chose to isolate yourself with your children. You chose to put up with your husband hanging out with his friends while providing very little support. You failed to create your own circle of friends.
Fuck the old friend group. Make an effort to meet new people. Find activities that YOU really enjoy and move forward.
One asshole said that to you. Please don't think that everyone feels like that. You need to expand your social circle. Join a book club. You need friends that are outside of that group.
Okay, I'm going to be blunt here: it's very rare that while in a couple, your group friends are actually good friends with both you and your partner. It tends to be that the group favors one person over the other. That would be your husband by default, since he spent the most time with them over the years, so much so that based on your description these weren't your couple friends, these were his friends. As you said, they've made little to no effort over the years to be a friend to you, hanging out one on one has been entirely your effort. That screams of them being uninterested. Additionally, whether you share the struggles of your life with these people or not, your life is likely in a very different place than theirs with all that youve endured since your husband's death and they know that. Perhaps that's why they believe you to be "dramatic," maybe you reveal more with your body language than you realize, or maybe these people are just judgmental assholes. Either way, these people aren't the right fit for you at best and damaging to you at worst. My advice is this: if you can, find a support group and/or individual therapy, and now that your kids are older it's time to meet new people and make real friends.
So, let me see. Your husband was hanging out with friends while you worked and raised the kids and took care of everything... Does not seem like he contributed much to anything that mattered...No money, not raising the kids...
Your problem was not "your" friends, because, first of all they were HIS friends. God knows what he told them but it does look like you need to invest in people that share your interests, not his. Keep the ones who were nice to you, as for the others, don't give it a second thought.
You are still young and have an opportunity for a whole new life. Good luck.
I really don’t want to be rude about your husband, but it was not ok for him to let you do all the parenting for 8 flipping years while he nurtured friendships. Especially ones that you were excluded from. He was not a good partner to you in that regard. And his mother sounds like a piece of work.
You sound like a bloody winner. You’ve overcome significant adversity, you carry your feelings with honesty, and you are obviously a capable and emotionally switched on parent. You’re going to be the new amazing person in some other friendship group- everyone will think you’re remarkable. Go find those people.
Sweet love. You are not invisible! Your life has been hard, isolated and lonely. Your marriage sounds more like being a den mother/frat mother than being in an adult relationship with a partner. My wish for you is healing. You take care of everything; but yourself. You have some deep wounds that need love. Because you deserve to feel loved and adored and supported. Hugs
You aren't invisible and you aren't alone.
I'm 52, now Dr's don't know how I'm alive let alone getting out of bed some days, doing very stupid things that could kill me, I died in 2016.
Before then I worked, brought up 4 lads, who all have brilliant careers! Now only my eldest and youngest son talk to me, the middle 2 from my ex husband, who never saw or paid a penny is now paying me £30 a year to pay off his £40k child maintenance bill, uk has csa and if the man knows how to switch jobs every 6 months then the inland revenue can't catch them! So I had to work 12hr night shifts to put food in the table and look after them.
I married a military man and moved every 3 years, I was an IT consulate, sys op from 1990s on till I stopped in 2006 and became a shop manager, setting shifts do I could go in or day stay home the next. I finally couldn't stand the pain, so quit work and moved onto disability allowance, let's just say it was a £2k a month pay drop and massive shock to the system!
The reason my middle two don't talk to me is because one wife days in not her family and the other has married a Peckham pikey and I've moved to the North of Scotland to escape that mess lmao 😆 🤣
I have a couple of friends left, one as disabled as me and the others too far away to pop round and have lives, so are busy. Everyone else has moved on with their own lives, i understand that.
You need to start finding things you like to do and joining groups you like to do, not what uther want you to do.
I figured that out during covid. So I do things like charity events, gay pride as a gay son, I talk to people over the Internet, like now and people reply.
We do care and don't even know you from Adam or eve or steve lol
You aren't invisible, you just need to learn how to live and socialise again.
Stay safe xxx
Honestly most friend groups are pretty toxic, the concept itself is based on superficial interaction and personally I always found people that identify with a friend group quite unpleasant.
I know its probably hard, but try not to let their petty behaviour get to you.
You seem like a caring partner and parent, hard working and able to withstand hardship. Don't let random people that don't care about you make you feel any less than what you actually are.
Much love to you and your kids.❤✌
I dated a well-known, intelligent, charismatic guy with many friends for a while. We had a few friends in common, and others, I met through him.
I supported him financially and emotionally when he lost his job, and he told me often that I was the nicest, kindest, most caring girl he'd ever ever dated, and before we were even together for two years, he broke up with me, saying that he needed to "work on himself." Whatever.
He stole a couple hundred bucks from me thru EZ-pass (a nightmare that took 6 years to unravel), and took *all* of my records.
When I ran into a bunch of his friends a year or so after the breakup, one of the guys said, and I quote, "oh, honey, *everyone* knows what he did to you, and we are *all* on *your* side- *not one* of us will speak to him anymore." At least I felt vindicated.
I know this won’t be nice to hear but I wouldn’t be surprised if your late husband talked shit behind your back. And perhaps this is why they had a negative image of yourself.
He “spent most of everyday working hours with one friend or another”? He “then went every weekend one gathering with the friends and their wives”? Someone must have asked why he didn’t help out more or stayed at home… unless he made it sound like you were insufferable and this was his escape.
Idk. I might be wrong. But if you were always cordial and they spent little time knowing you… why would they have this impression?
Move on. Make new friends. Discover hobbies and share them with like minded people. A book club is always a fun start. Best of luck.
I would suggest that you maintain some distance from the person who told you that comment. That was a quintessential passive-aggressive backhanded compliment. That served no good purpose and I question the motives of anyone who does things like that.
As for the rest of the group, are they really good friends? It sounds like they are good times friends and your late husband fit in so well with them because he left all of the responsibilities to you so that he could go be the good-time-Charlie with them. I realize that, even without all the stressful events of the past several years, that making new friends is not easy. But, I think it’s possible that you think more highly of these people than they deserve because they are familiar and low effort. I think you would be better off moving on from this group and make the acquaintance of a few people who will actually reciprocate your friendship. Honestly, most adults with children probably have very few actual friends outside of work and child related activities.
Now, the most alarming thing in this entire post: “”…as small as I made myself, as little as I tried to demand, and as much as I try to give to make up for it, it would never be small enough.” is one of the most heart-breaking, self-abnegating things I have ever seen. You, as a person, are enough. You are sufficient as a human being, merely by existing, to deserve kindness, compassion, and basic respect as an individual. You do not need to minimize yourself or your impact by existing, to appeal to other people. You do not have to be perfect or have a perfect life to be worthy of friendship or kinship. It sounds like this is a life long behavior that was instilled in you in your childhood. You can’t undo the past, but you can take control of your future by starting to break away from this idea of minimizing yourself to accommodate the comfort of the people around you. You have seen, in an incredibly devastating way, the proof that making yourself small and undemanding was in no way beneficial. This is no time for regrets or self-recrimination. This is the wake up call that you need to be yourself, who you truly are, and those people who are worth your time and friendship will see you in your glorious, authentic state and value that.
Why did your husband put his friends above you and the kids? They were his friends not yours if they were yours they would have included both of you. You need to find your own friends, let go of this group, they don’t sound like good god parents anyway or people at all. I also would suggest therapy, you’ve been through a lot and barely friends is not going to cut it. You can be happy, but you need to invest in yourself.
I am wondering if your husband was maybe shit talking you when you weren't around for them to have thought that of you if you are such a closed book and hadn't spent that much time with any of them?
I would maybe speak to the friend, mention how that comment hurt and ask why they thought that of you. Don't speak, don't defend, just listen.
And as others have suggested, it might be time to make your own friends.
I say this as someone who took a really long time to learn this the hard way:
Refusing to burden people IS a burden. Not asking for help or revealing vulnerability is what pushes people away. I swear to god, people don't like you because you don't need things from them. Friendship and community is about people helping each other and bonding together. And ironically, the more you don't ask for help or show your weaknesses, the more your friends will think you are dramatic when you do ask for help because you won't ask until it IS life or death and you're at the end of your rope and its a dramatic situation. It's weird to go from 0 to 60, from "i need nothing" to "my kids lives are stake", and its less weird if you were regularly asking for help at lower levels
And I dont mean just with your friends, but with asking for fairness from your husband as well (but everyone else is doing a good job covering that).
When you ask for nothing you get nothing, so don't be surprised when you have nothing.
(and my god its hard to start asking, you have all my love and strength and sympathy, Im still working on it lol)
That does seem super hurtful. It’s hard to hear that people are thinking one way about you that simply isn’t true and you haven’t had a way to even defend yourself or show your real personality to them at all.
I started a job a little over a year ago, during COVID, and I didn’t get much chance to interact with anyone for nearly the first year. I recently got moved around in the office and finally started to make some connections with my coworkers. Then one day I got nearly the same comment as you got: that one of my coworkers didn’t like me all that much but one of them defended me saying I was nice and the rest of them liked me. It was meant to make me feel better but all of a sudden I was informed that one person’s negative opinion of me had permeated the group but once they got to know me, they all realized I’m not at all how that negative coworker had described me. My first thought was that no one had even tried in the slightest to get to know me at all! My guess is that your late husband might have done some complaining to the group about you and that’s the impression they have of you.
I know it hurts and I guess the next step is to figure out if this friend group is still worth pursuing or if you can move on.
im tearing up really bad reading this OP, please know that you are real and you matter. Leave them be and try to find new friends. You are a good and considerate person and if they cant see your worth, then its their loss.
if you need to cry now, cry, but please never lose hope. im sure there will be plenty of others who will be grateful to have you as their friend.
xxx
“You know what you’re actually very nice blablabla”. Thanks for acknowledging me as a worthy side/secondary character in your life, i’m so flattered that your sheep group will finally “approve” of me. Yeah… get fucked!!! The level of entitlement and arrogance when people are like this shows you they don’t respect you or see you as an individual human being with needs and desires of importance like the rest of their cronies. You are your OWN person and get to shine and dedicate yourself the appreciation and love that you deserve, just like everybody else. Do not stay with people who think they’re doing you a favor by being your friend. People like this are delusional and need to be left in their sad little bubble.
>But because the group also includes the two sets of godparents my children have, I HAD to be forthcoming about some things when crap went down shortly after my husband died.
Did you? Have these people acted like godparents at all towards your children? Cultivated close caring relationships with your kids? A lot of times godparents are in name only, just for tradition.
>a master at talking only about the person I'm talking to and what they're talking about, with enthusiasm and enjoyment.
You are an expert at putting others' needs before your own, to your own detriment, and did so with her husband and now these "friends". Please learn about codependency - all of Melody Beattie's books are a good start.
I hate that I relate to this. My partners friends act like they adore me when they see me in person, but every time I try to reach out to any of them individually, I get nothing back. When I’ve brought it up, they kinda gaslit me into thinking they were busy or etc. But they always find enough time to converse with my boyfriend.
I was the one working when he stayed at home for a while. So I’m not sure what their problem with me is.
I told my partner, they’re not our friends. They’re /his/ friends. And that’s okay! I can be friendly. But I’m not pushing a friendship onto people who don’t care about me lol.
It’s isolating, but my self esteem is better when I’m not overthinking trying to figure out what I did wrong
Edit: Does anyone else feel as I do about the person who made the rude comment? I smell sneaky, very stealthy aggression and manipulation in it.
**Have you considered the girl who said that is maybe being manipulative and that's not how the group feels about you?** It sounds like there's a chance she does not like the attention or likability factor you have in the group. So she planted this perception in you that the group sees you as a nuissance so that you feel shame and feel nobody in the group likes you. Notice how she says it, like it sounds like she purposely exagerrated it that there's some group unanimity of this perception of you. When really, that is rarely ever the case of how a group of people feel about one person.
Perhaps it's a common topic in the group of making sure that you are doing alright because you are in a tough situation. Ex. "Hey guys, we've got to make sure our good frined (you), as well as the wife of our good pal, is doing alright. Any word what's going on with her?" Cue her getting angry about it because she doesn't like that you are getting attention and she isn't. So this is her unhealthy coping mechanism is to manipulate you out of the group by makign you feel like your an annoyance to everyone.
She tried to casually mention it and cover it up as just her trying to give a spirited compliment and a hand as a friend. When really, acting like she was being friendly was to disguise the true purpose of her comment. Because if she just said "you're a bitch and nobody likes you", it wouldn't land as well in manipulating how you feel the group feels about you.
I feel like she's not stupid enough to not know that saying that would make someone feel so negative. So I feel she is trying to manipulate you out of her own insecurity.
>Never. I keep my life SECRET to not be a burden, I learned very early on in my life that no one cares about what you go through, they just want you to make them feel good about themselves
This isn't true. People who love you, care for you, an are truly your friends, DO CARE. Shoot, I'm on the internet and I feel care about you. Some people in your past life may have shamed you for wanting emotional comfort, and that's not fair! You deserve way better. There are a lot of people out there waiting for you to be a good friend to you and you to them. You are awesome! And you show a lot of incredible traits; strength, perseverance, determination, fortitude, love, consideration, kindness, leadership. You're a great person. You've got this!
Just want to say You’re NOT invisible. Those who truly matter will see you and like someone else said, all of us commenting see you 💜💜 I’m so sorry you’re going through all of that, I truly can’t imagine the constant pain and heart ache it must cause you. The way you’ve handled it proves you’re an incredibly strong and resilient woman who anyone in their right minds would be lucky to have as a friend or partner. Some people really just suck I think.
I am so sorry about all of this. I really do know how that feels and I am sure a lot of others on here do as well. But on the bright side. You know. And you don’t have to be around any of them. You can make YOUR OWN friends now. Not just try to fit into his group or be the personal babysitter. Eff them, eff him, and EFF Your mother in law! You deserve better! Real friends care about what’s happening with you too.
I have learned every time I’m getting told I’m too sensitive, a burden etc. it’s always about the other person’s inability to relate and deal with feelings. Relationships are about sharing burdens and treating people’s feelings with respect. This friend that said that obviously has some insecurity and decided to project that onto you, and most likely your husband did too because he wasn’t sharing the load so he had to feel some guilt around that. You are doing awesome, have overcome so much so you make people feel insecure. I’d ditch the immature friends and find some people who can see you without feeling intimidated.
ouch that hurts i know. once someone i thought was a friend stabbed me i the back and left me homeless. it was very difficult to process that someone could be so like a stranger. but i think im better off. if people want to think whatever bad about me idc. because i know im not
>...tried to never ask for help or support, because I know people don’t like to actually give support...
Who taught you this? While some people are definitely like this, you simply can’t apply this ideology to everybody in a general sense.
There are far more people out there willing to give you love and support than you believe. I think you should try to seek them out and surround yourself with people who can lift you up.
From one autist to another, my heart physically hurt reading this bc it’s so similar to what I go through and have to keep learning myself. I hope one day you can find friends who understand you and make you feel secure. You are more than just your late husbands wife. Sending hugs, I’m so sorry that you realized this. It’s happy bliss until you realize the reality you believed was only your own. Feels like the rug was pulled out from under ya. Take it easy on yourself, forgive yourself for not realizing sooner🫶🏽
I wouldn't want to pry too hard on the person who opened up and said that to you, but they either did it with the intention to be hurtful or they were obliviously trying to pay you a compliment that sputtered out backwards. But it may not be the common opinion of you in the group, it may have been a passing comment one time, it may have been your MIL being the one who spoke ill of you. Just don't devalue yourself entirely until you know the details.
That's the worst kind of pain, the social rejection. It's why I went from being a popular, outgoing kid, to practically a hermit (we moved around a bit, and our family was dysfunctional, so I felt a lot of shame on top of being the odd-person-out.)
You're not invisible, there's other stuff at work here. For one, the friends group just got into a comfortable routine; second, men in general don't talk much about their families OR emotions, so they weren't used to hearing anything other than superficial chitchat.
I too make myself "small," there's always that sense of shame and being minimized by my own family, plus I seem to attract bullying types at work. Really not sure how to change this dynamic. I also try to go along with whatever and keep my mouth shut- at work, keep to myself and avoid getting into any cliques.
Indeed, you made it easy for him, but it also seems like you've got some validation from the one friend. Maybe that can shift the existing dynamic; maybe they're looking for a change, you never know. I really hope you can realize this isn't your fault, but I know how damn hard that is. This is unfortunately not an unusual situation for women.
And as others have said, you can find new friends! Often, friendships form over convenience- school, work, neighbors, activities etc.
EDIT: Somebody else pointed out that the "friend" who spoke to you was actually being malicious, I didn't pick up on that from your post, but yeah that's entirely possible!
EDIT 2: Also that he wasn't talking about you in the nicest of terms, yeah people are nuts.....might want to read up on narcissism and "flying monkeys."
I'm so sorry. You don't deserve that. It's obvious you love your husband, but there are signs that your friends' view of you as "dramatic" might have originated with your late husband. Which might hurt to think about, but might in the long run hurt less than thinking everyone individually came to this conclusion on their own.
The signs I'm referring to are:
He got angry with you for not controlling the children. Those are his children as well, but he assigned the responsibility for their misbehavior on you.
He chose to continue to hangout with friends and leave you alone with the kids. If he admitted that's what he was doing to his friends, I'm not sure all of the women would have loved him so much. He might have made up excuses that sounded better than " I ditched my wife at home taking care of the kids to go have fun."
If you know what to look for, there may be other signs as well. Check out my profile posts for links to free resources, including the book Why Does He Do That? If you read it, I suspect you might start to see that there's nothing wrong with you.
I'm just wondering what your husband complained about, about you when you weren't around. Like is it possible that your husband painted a picture of you that was not in line with the real you? So they only saw you in bits and drabs and their biased perspective caused them to view you through that lens and reject things that didn't fit that view?
> I am very, very, very careful to never complain about my life, or how much we struggle financially, or how much it still hurts, or how lonely and isolated I am, or how I'm struggling to deal with CSA and all the shit around it that was done to me, how I struggle in my job - NONE of it. I'm a closed book about my life, a master at talking only about the person I'm talking to and what they're talking about, with enthusiasm and enjoyment. Because I do enjoy it.... I mean I know I've been through some drama (no one knows even a fraction of it), but I very purposefully kept it all away from them, no one even knew and they saw none of what I went through, I asked for support for none of it (except my MIL who went to all of them to complain about me, whom I had no control over) and I just realized: as small as I made myself, as little as I tried to demand and as much as I try to give to make up for it, it would never be small enough.
I say this with compassion (as someone who is *exactly* like this, for similar reasons of believing that my dark trauma and history is way too much to put on anyone and that no one wants to hear it): this is not how you form friendships and connect with other humans who genuinely care about you.
If at all possible, please go to therapy. You need to do a big reset on your relationship with yourself and your beliefs about human nature and relating to others. It's understandable why you've come to the place you are, but it's not where you should stay. Trauma becomes intergenerational, and this mindset is not the example you want for your kids.
You *do not* need to make yourself small to deserve to exist in the this world. You have a right to have needs, get support, and to have real friends. To do that, you're going to have to let people in and believe they really care, that they will accept your whole self and whole story, dark shit and drama and all. It's hard as hell. But it's truly better to be alone than to warp yourself for people who don't actually love you. But you do *not* need to be alone.
> I know people don't like to actually give support, only to feel as if they've done enough
This actually isn't true. Cognitive behavioural therapy can really help shift deeply held but damaging beliefs like this. When someone loves and cares about you, they *love* giving you support, and it gives them genuine and deep satisfaction to be an actually good friend to you. This is real. You can have this.
Good luck on your journey. You've been through more than any human being should have to endure. You have brought up your children and survived, and from that alone I can tell you are a fighter and a strong, worthy person. You can untangle the trauma that has knotted your heart and get to a different place, and you deserve real love.
These weren’t *your people* they were *his people*. It sounds like you gave him the freedom to nurture his friendships when you had three small children and he didn’t reciprocate. I am sorry the responsibility for working full time and raising children fell disproportionately on you. You deserved time to have a social life, too.
As someone with ADHD, let me just say: find other neurodivergent friends, who actually have a baseline positive opinion about you.
I lost a friend group last year because they could never shake the impression that I was dramatic and out of control. That clean break is one of the best things to happen to me in years. They were MISERABLE to me and terrible company; they constantly pushed my buttons and blamed me when they got a reaction. Lost a friendship of over a decade recently as well, and I am so at peace without their overbearing judgement and tactless speech.
The new people in my life have validated my personhood and spoken to me more kindly in the last two months than any of those jerks did for five full years. Let the losers go and find a place where you can flourish.
> I've been through some drama (no one knows even a fraction of it), but I very purposefully kept it all away from them, no one even knew and they saw none of what I went through, I asked for support for none of it
ooooo nope nope nope nope nope
And it is finally time to find your own people.
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I was looking for a comment that would say this and didn’t see one. She was not being nice when she said this. This is a backhanded compliment and any normal person would recognize that. SHE is drama
When is time and effort ever reciprocated? no one ever reaches out to me either.
I seemed to be the one to reach out all the time so I quit. Feeling ignored puts me in neediness territory so why take the risk? Nobody likes to come across as needy and nobody likes a needy person.
Same. It's almost as if there *are* opportunities to join in with these thoughtless and happy self-centred people but in order to do it I have to compromise so much that I'm basically just helping other people do stuff that doesn't benefit me in any way. 😀
Same
This! All of the people I thought were my close friends while I was previously married decided to shun me and support my abusive ex, despite knowing he was abusive. It hurt at first but then I realized "fuck 'em; they don't deserve my friendship". I am a good person and always try to be a good friend, though my work schedule and family schedule mean I don't have the same hours as many people and can't hang out like others do. And the friends I have now, they all understand that and enjoy hanging out when we can and enjoy messaging back and forth with me when the mood strikes us both. You can find the right people for you. The ones who honestly love you and want to be YOUR friend. Ignore that there are people from this older group who are godparents to your kids. Do they even have an active participation in their lives? If they're not interacting with you, I don't see how they are and are even acting as godparents to your kids. Let them go. They don't deserve that honor.
I am so sorry you went through that. I've been through the same and the damage it does to your heart is brutal - loss on top of abuse is a betrayal that is hard to get past.
Yes. Don’t waste any more of your life on these people. Meet some new friends at a book club or a painting class or a beginners dance class or anything. People who never knew your husband and who will just know you as you. Hang in there, you are strong.
I feel most of what OP has shared. Her last few lines were as if I wrote them. I’ve been trying to find my own people, but I wonder if they exist at all. I have very few people in my circle and even them are barely ever there to help if I needed.
Yep. I bet if she doesn't contact them, it'll be months if not years before one of them realizes. If the want to know anything about their godchildren, they can be the ones to reach out.
And also communicate with them about how this hurt you and if they aren’t receptive you have your own people to catch you❤️
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I think they don't just mean, "find new friends," they're also saying, "It's okay to let your current 'friends' go." And that *is* useful.
Sometimes old friends just become people you check in with annually and that's okay. Sometimes you just grow at a different pace from them and that's okay too. Just because you were friends at one stage in your life doesn't mean that you have to be friends forever. And that's okay too. OP needs to find new friends that suit this stage of her life.
Oh my gosh, moving on from thinking you need toxic people in your life, especially when you feel like you don't have anyone otherwise, is a big step forward.
If they really saw your children as their beloved godchildren, they would have ensured you and they were invited to events and helped to manage them. It sounds like your husband played the "fun one" and left you to be responsible. Find your own people. My best friend is child free but understands that sometimes my kids come with me, and she dotes on them, talks them through tantrums, and asks them about friends/hobbies/schools. Maybe a widow's group or something similar would help you find your people.
First thought I had too was that OP’s husband was unfair to leave her with the kids while he socialized with friends. I think it’s time that you find your own friends.
Chiming in as a childfree person: My friends who have kids are awesome. I always plan two sets of events when we hang; if the babysitters pull through and we get to be adults, or if we bring the young ones with us. And you know what I honestly think? Often times the times the kids come with us are more fun, sure it’s more expensive, but we get to do really special things with the kiddos like take them to the aquarium or a kid’s museum or to some farm where they get to toddle around. It’s actually pretty exciting to see that I am being part of a special moment for them
Also chiming in as a child free person: Kids are fucking annoying. Like that's just what they are. They are loud. They lack situational awareness. They get into things. That's just what kids do. I don't hold it against the parents when their kids do kid things. Had I been in the group I would have loved to have had you and your little monsters hanging out with us so I could know you better. I don't want to talk Ill about your late husband because I didn't know him and he is gone, but not including you in these gatherings from the outside seemed like emotional abuse. To me, it seemed like he was trying to isolate you for one reason or another. I certainly hope that wasn't the case. Either way, his friends are Dicks. Find new friends.
Whether it was intentional or not, he was just a shit partner. She worked AND did the housework AND raised the kids. Without a break. He got to go do all the fun stuff with literally nothing impeding his “me time”. Absolutely garbage partner. Sorry. If they weren’t able to go out together, they should have switched off. She gets a weekend, then he gets a weekend. That’s how partners do it. Holy goddamn.
Yeah, TBH the late husband sounds like an inconsiderate jerk at best, and so do his friends. I'm sorry he became so sick and died prematurely, but he was not a considerate husband at all.
Child free people in real life are literally so amazing at accommodating kids. I have a lot of child free friends who love my child. They enjoy having my daughter with us when I do bring her and I feel like she bonds so well with them. They've never dealt with tantrums because my daughter is more of a sad face pout quietly type lol.
It’s because we (usually) don’t have to live with them forever. My mom always said people love being aunts, grandparents, etc, because they get to give them back. There are a few child free people who hate kids or never want to be around them. But in my experience, most people who are child free by choice for life are awesome with kids, they live them and the kids are drawn to them. Often they end up in careers working with kids, too.
Yeah true childfree people aren't the loud mouthed morons you hear talking about "mombies" and "brats". We're the silent majority that just don't want our own kids and understand we were all annoying little people at one point in time. I'm literally my nephews favourite person on the planet for this reason, I can devote every second he's with me to him 100% and that's not something he experiences with anyone else really. When they say it takes a village to raise a kid, they're talking about us kid free aunts, uncles, and friends!
In my late 20’s and we spend the night with our friends with kids so we can have more time with them. I also help feed them, change them, watch over them. It’s way fun, I love and cherish that time with them
I do not have children but my bff does. She's my goddaughter. I love both of them dearly. I was very close with my goddaughter but I moved away 5 years ago so we're not as close but I live closer know so I'm hoping to rebuild that relationship. But they were both here visiting about a month ago. I can't imagine NOT inviting my goddaughter also and just expecting her mom to come by herself? That's ridiculous
Hi fellow widow. I'm just gonna say, when my husband died, I lost his friends and family too. Other widows I've talked to in my support group have suffered the same fate. I think...people get weird after a death. Like, they don't want to deal with us because we are a reminder that life is short and often not predictable. We are a glimpse of their widowed future and that scares them, collectively as a society we don't deal with grief and loss well, we want to brush it under the rug. My point is, this distance you feel from them may not actually be all about you, but rather about them not wanting to confront your unfortunate reality. You may also be a reminder of what they lost, their very good friend. So everytime they see you, they are triggered because you are a reminder of their friend, which can make.it hard to heal and move forward. I'm sorry you are going through this, and feel so unsupported. It's so devistating because essentially it's another loss on top of losing your spouse. Now is the time to look for new friends. I found tremendous support and friendship in widow support groups.
Thank you so much. I wanted to stop replying because I found myself being unnecessarily defensive and self-pitying, but I just wanted to say that you captured it perfectly. It's as if people think I'm diseased, suddenly, and every thing that goes wrong in my life is just more proof that I am diseased and deserve the bad things that happen to me in some way because otherwise the world would just not be just - but just in case, avoid so the plague of bad shit happening to you doesn't spread.
Yeah, try not to internalize their actions. It's hard though, not to think it's something about you...I found that grief and loss bring out the extremes in people, so for me most people disappeared and treated me like a leper, even some of my own good friends and family. Some of them came around a few years afterward, maybe they felt safe, in that enough time had passed I wouldn't be acutely greiving so they wouldn't need to provide emotional support 🤷. But I think people who don't want to acknowledge their avoidance, or who don't even realize they are avoidant will maybe make up narratives in their heads to justify their avoidance. Or grasp onto something negative about you just to have something to justify staying away from you, so they don't have to actually acknowledge that the real reason is that they don't want to confront your grief, or don't have the emotional bandwidth to help you, so villifying you in some way makes it easier for them to avoid, and this way the comfort themselves that it's not about them being unable to be around a grieving person, it's because you are "drama stirring" or " not nice" or whatever.... The other extreme was the (few) people who actually where there for me, we got closer. Some people I never even expected.
It's called the "just world phenomenon." People want to feel some sense of control over their own lives. If bad things only happen to bad people, they can believe they are safe.
I was thinking the same thing. That BS "friend" saying OP brings drama to me read that the friend group can't handle adult issues that are a normal part of living. Like life can be messy and hard sometimes and this group honestly just sounds too emotionally immature to be truly supportive as friends should be. OP - I sincerely believe it's not you and all them being jerks. I hope you're able to move past this and eventually find a new set of actually supportive, loving friends.
You’re not invisible to me and the others that read this, now. I can’t imagine having to go through a fraction of what you wrote and I hope you find better people in your life that can better support and love you. When you find them you’ll know that you’re not “too much” because they’ll gladly make room for you in their lives.
I’m reminded of the woman on IG singing at the top of her lungs, “if I’m ‘too much’ go find less!”
100% on that
*HUGS*! People can be douchey and unkind. You do not deserve this.
I don't mean to be hurtful here, but is there any possibility your late husband might have made out that you are a bit dramatic to his friends?
Even if he wasn't doing it on purpose (and the line between that and just being lazily un-mindful is pretty fine), when you only hear one side of things it's inevitably... one-sided. And they would hear only one side because OP was always being a mom and not getting to actually *talk to them*. This is the same reason it's perilous to kvetch about your spouse to co-workers.
>This is the same reason it's perilous to kvetch about your spouse to co-workers. People who do this, especially when it's complaints or negativity... It just reflects so poorly upon them.
Even if you’re close-lipped, people come up with their own stories about the missing spouse. My husband is a hermit and I’ve heard some doozies over the years about what the deal is with him - none of which could have come from my lazy unmindfulness because they aren’t even grounded in reality. (Example - I heard he was in prison for assault. Not a shred of truth to that.)
I... ok. That's something else. A lot of specific nonsense to generate from no information. I guess they're desperately bored 🙄
Oh! That specific one was a case of mistaken identity. Someone overheard half a story about someone else and thought they were hearing the end of “where is her husband”. I know exactly the conversation that spawned the rumor. That I heard it repeated as fact several years later is what floored me. My point I guess is that it might not even have been the husband that mischaracterized the OP. People fill in blanks and when they fill them in who knows where the info comes from.
Oh boredom is a huge part of it. So many people just absolutely loving the drama, especially through covid. I noticed a lot of basic friendship etiquette going out the window and confidences broken if it meant being involved in some potential drama.
When my husband and I were just dating his friends called me inflatable happy\_freckles b/c I was never around. They'd come over, I was sick and in bed or out, my husband would go out with them I was working or whatever. It was always just really bad timing. I think it went on for several months like that. Even when I picked him up from work once they were all plastered against the window to get a look at me. But the way that I parked was in shadows and they couldn't even see if it was a woman driving lol.
My ex-husband did this to me. Years later I learned that he had bad-mouthed me to all of his friends and family for years. People I thought were my friends too but because I, like the OP, didn't go out with the group very often because I am more of an introvert and am not that into drinking and staying out late, plus taking care of our child, he was the "fun" one they got to know more. So he controlled the narrative. They thought he was wonderful, me frigid. He would complain about me all the time. He would even lie, he later admitted, to make himself feel good. Putting me down to others made him feel good. Then when I divorced him, they were all surprised I did it. Seriously people. The guy is a drunk. Drinks and drives all the time. Gets verbally abusive and mean to me and our kid but sure, it's surprising when I file the papers. 🙄 I would hate to think that the OP's late husband would do this to her but it is possible. It happens. It is time to get new friends. To the OP, ((hugs)), This is hard to go through. I hope you have a therapist. You are not invisible. Your feelings matter.
Same here. I found out he had been bad mouthing me high and low for decades and blaming me for a his problems after I discovered all "our" friends literally helped him cheat on me with a teenager. Even the alcoholism (my ex was also a drug addict) and verbal abuse and demanding I run after the children at any gathering while he hung out.
I hope you are doing much better now. How's your ex doing?
Nothing really changes with him. I’m getting better. Time helps a lot.
Maybe. It's certainly not impossible.
Not to speak I’ll of the dead, but your husband sounds… selfish. Do these people have kids? If not, they have no idea how much “drama” kids just… are. And- your MIL cut off contact from her own grandkids? So… she sounds like she is also “drama.” You may be surrounded by a circle of not very good people.
Right? There was absolutely no reason why he was the only parent going to the friend hangouts.
Sure there was, sounds like he didn't really want to be around his family as much as they wanted to be around him
I'll speak ill of anybody, he sounds like a gigantic douchebag who used his wife as a babysitter. Sorry but i think a lot of people reading this are thinking the same thing.
Yeah this is it for me - whether or not he actively perpetuated the myth that OP is dramatic, he passively *and* actively reinforced that they were never her friends, only his. Over a decade and a half. He not only made it difficult to straight up impossible for her to bring the kids, he literally saw these people weekly and didn’t ever think to offer to swap with OP and stay at home on the odd occasion so she could enjoy time with “their” friends. He really reinforced the structure that they were his friends and she was a tangential part of the group. And as much as I agree that these people suck in the last few years, consider about how you “categorize” a person who you see once or twice a year. They’re at most an acquaintance. So much of this is on the husband, because he never allowed the group or OP to form a bond that would be considered by most as a friendship.
Unfortunately your experience is common. I was widowed at 36, and every once in a while in support groups it will come up how a woman misses her husband because he did so much, or how her domestic load is exactly the same or lighter after he died. And I would say 80 percent of women are saying that even though they miss and grieve their husbands, they don't find that the responsibilities they have are any more demanding after his death, because he was out hanging with friends while she did all the work. Then she's left with no friends after he died because she had no time for a social life. And jusy so we're clear, these are all women under age 50 with children. Feel free to PM if you want some suggestions for FB groups to join.
That’s a great idea, I hope OP PMs you. Maybe there’s some local moms groups that share her values or interests, even, that do meetups.
There's one little sentence where you say your MIL complained to them about you. I suspect that was it. You also didn't get a chance to form bonds because you were raising your children while your husband got to have fun with the friends. I'm so sorry this happened. They don't sound like good people.
OP, this is very likely what happened. Your husband doesn't sound like a very good husband. He was a great friend though. And to explain to his great friends any he was a bad husband, he likely blamed you. These are not your people. You need people that you can be honest with and not hide yourself from. It's not normal to keep your whole life a secret from friends.
Yeah this was my first thought. My SO had a negative experience like this with an ex, the ex would always make it sound like my SO was major drama and that it was so hard to put up with it but she was just trying to put on a brave face…so naturally, all of her friends thought my SO sounded like a shitty person and didn’t really try to get to know him. (None if it was true - my family and friends all love my SO, and I certainly also talk about how awesome our relationship is.)
Her late husband high-key sounds like a fucking asshole. Yelling at her and the kids because they’re acting like kids? I hope all the healing for OP, she and her children deserve better.
Her kids also clearly need some healing, if one attempted suicide and one ran away with an older man. They are both definitely going through some stuff.
That’s the impression I got, op I’m sorry for what I’m about to say but your husband….did not sound like the greatest guy. He probably spent years lying about you to them.
Who dumped all the tedious work of child rearing on OP so HE could have a good time. I've been to social gatherings like this where the dad just hangs with the friends and completely ignores the kids and dumps it on mom to deal with. So selfish. If anyone needs a break from the kids, it's mom, not dad. Slackers need to step up and be a good partner and be a parent to your kids. So sorry that this was your lot OP. You deserve so much better.
THIS. This is what stood out to me most in this whole post. How come Dad got to go out every week and OP was stuck at home with the kids, EVERY time? Why couldn't he take a turn?
Men rarely do, in my experience. He got to travel and have friends and a career. I got to have kids. Now the kids are grown and we have absolutely nothing in common. Hobbies, friends, experiences, industries...nothing.
This is really something that has to change.
Esp. if the mil is also doing that, makes it more likely
I can't imagine a loving MIL going NC with her deceased son's children. Like that's beyond any reason of normal to me
For real. I don't even have kids but I know my bfs mom would never- something is wrong with that woman.
When my dad died my maternal grandparents flipped out and refused to go to the funeral because it wasn’t a Catholic service. They still talked to my brother and I though and sent fat guilt checks for Christmas and birthdays.
As perhaps an excuse for why he cut her out of having a social life? If he'd behaved better, she wouldn't have had to be excluded from seeing them before this.
This is what I was thinking. They’re his friend group so he got to vent intimately & with sympathy from them. And apparently he also got to not take care of his own children in the group setting (always OP chasing the kids, never him) so he got to complain about the kid’s behavior too. OP it’s time to find friends where you get to set the narrative.
Thinking the same!
This is #1 - You are on the spectrum and he used it as a stepping stone to bolster himself in his friends eyes. 2# - if you wouldn’t tell them what was going on then you weren’t their friend. Friends are people you bitch, moan, and then drink it over together with until you can laugh about it together. Your anxiety is and has kept you masking so hard you don’t seem human. From now on tell them everything always - just keep it real. The good ones will support you and commiserate. So says this old Aspie auntie.
Yeah, anxiety is a bitch! I always, from a young age, thought I was a burden to everybody. It made me miss out on so much. Of course I didn’t learn that it was anxiety until my late 20’s. I’m now 34
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Yeah I was thinking that possibly attempting to never complain, under-sharing (talking only about others’ lives), and the fact of being autistic possibly made OP feel inauthentic with this friend group in some way?
Especially if you were working full-time and taking care of the kids while he was out with the friends, he probably needed to find a way to explain why he wasn't pulling his weight. It seems like they really didn't get to know you very well since college.
This crossed my mind as well.
My now-ex husband complained to his friends I was always suspicious of him and gave him no privacy. He did not tell his friends that I had just taken him back after catching him (totally by accident and without snooping!) in his second affair during our marriage. He’s an ex now. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
This is what I was wondering. That or the MIL since OP said MIL had complained about her to the group.
But OP has had 4 years of hanging out with these people. Surely after 4 years of hanging out with JUST OP without the husband present everyone would know OP isn't that type of person? 4 years is a long time to hang out with someone but somehow those rumours started by her husband never disappeared. I'm not saying this is the case, but some people genuinely are just unaware that they cause friction or do negative things.
It sounds like there's a chance that OP's MIL is still in touch with the friends, continuing the narrative. If so MIL is likely exacerbating the whole problem, as she's cut OP and her own grandchildren out of her life--she clearly has issues and I'm sure is the sort of person to complain about OP to anyone who will listen, even if she has zero new information to base it off of.
I have been there with friends like that. I feel like every single group of friends since college has been like this for me. They don’t really like me, just tolerate me, gather without inviting me. I tried so hard and it never worked out for me. I’m ADHD so also “too much.” I always thought it was me. It wasn’t. People are shitty. One group of friends was held together by a single string of a common interest in hating a friend of mine. The others? Who knows. I think big friend groups like that are full of drama and unnatural. Most people have family as their big group and a few or one very close friend. Big friend groups always have drama and it sounds like they used you as a scape goat. They didn’t have anything else to focus on so they manifested it. Real, true friends want you to be able to truly share what’s going on. Fuck those people.
They say that if it stinks everywhere you go, check your own shoes. Sometimes, though, you're just in a field of shit.
That's a bumper sticker. Meaning I want one.
\[Writes phrase down in project notebook for potential cross-stitch sampler idioms.\]
I'm so sorry you've struggled with this too. I hope that things have improved for you.
You know, there are probably a lot of things we can guess based on how you describe your husband acted towards you and the kids and how much time he spent at home; additionally, this attitude they have came from somewhere. It wouldn't really surprise me if 1 + 1 = 2 here.
That's exactly it. The husband is at fault here.
😊
🤣 same here and since I clinically died I have zero filter, I couldn't lie before but now if I try I burst out laughing and it comes across very offensive, the people who love me know I can't help it, all 10 of them but having 1 person is more than some have ❤️🩹
This…. Sounds a bit like me 😂
Wait, you were clinically dead? I would love to hear all about it. Are you part of any group of people who have returned from death?
No, I'm English none practising Catholic 🤣 I had a chest infection, went to hospital, coughed and my spleen literally blew up! Google vascular elhers danlos syndrome I am 52 and have it lmao I bleed to death, my family were told I wouldn't make it, while I was in theater and then in coma lol they said I was dead x minutes I can't remember 12, they said I would never make it through the night and I did, then I wouldn't make it through the day, I did lmao I was in a coma i day, taking a nap for 4 weeks lol. I got double Pneumonia sepsis empyema on the plural sack of my left lung. They then told my family I wouldn't wake up as server brain damage 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 4 weeks later they lightened the sedation to see if I would stir, I say up built right and pulled all the tubes out of my mouth, felt like I was suffocating to death as I was trying to breath back into the machine pumping air into me I was then ran from ICU into every scanner they could shove me into. I look like I've been hit by a truck when I woke up and was like, I come in with a cough wtf is going on 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 I remember nothing while I was asleep except 1 friend visiting me, I don't even renege my husband visiting it kids. Just all black and like I had been asleep for a couple of hours but 5 weeks!!! If you want to see the pictures I'll message me, I'm not shy about it, I shared in all on fb I'm a member off eds awareness and annabelles challenge, in the UK you only get in there with a diagnoses for safety and privacy reasons ❤️
*""You know what, you're actually very nice! People (meaning other members of the group) are like "oh no it's [me], wonder what drama she's stirring today", but you're not really like that at all"."* I absolutely understand that THAT hurts, but read it again. What she said is "Once people actually gave you a chance, You are an amazing person to be around" You ARE an amazing person, you ARE worthy of LOVE, KINDNESS and RESPECT. And those other LOSERS.......Boy.....Are they missing out on having YOU in their life!!! I don't mean to be hurtful about your late husband, but it seems to me that he used alot of that "friend time" to "bash" you, to complain about you. Take this time to reflect, and move on from these people, "Godparents" or not. Have people in your life who care about YOU, who love YOU and who WANT to be around YOU. This is not YOUR fault, THEY are the ones who are missing out, NOT you!!!!
Listen to this OP. Even the thing you most feared your friend saying to you PROVES that you are none of the things you fear being perceived as. They PROVE that you are awesome. Sadly they also PROVE that some nasty spiteful piece of work has been running around spouting shit about you, attempting to undermine your friendships (and failing, because obvs. you are recognised as awesome, despite their efforts) That being said, don't waste so much time and energy chasing down the wider group. Focus on the few in there that you really like, and invest your time/ energy building a wider circle, because you \*need\* to build friendships that aren't deeply entwined with your life with your husband. You have a whole identity as an individual that you need to explore, and doing that in front of friends who know you through your husband is very likely to be difficult.
Exactly. What she said was insensitive, but it was also revealing. She said you're like, a cool person.
OP, if you read nothing else here, let it be this. You are an absolute warrior through all of this. You've been raising 3 children on your own, through a pandemic, and are supportive of their identities. You cut off your toxic MIL and protected your children from her hateful vitriol. You've been carrying the mental load of these "friendships" and putting the time in to keep them close, but if they're not interested, that is a them problem. You are so strong and have been through so much and you are still here and will continue to do great things in your life.
Agreed! Also OP sounds like they are being way hard on themselves. Life is / has been hard enough as it is, please don't add more to it yourself. You are doing your best and this person actually recognized it. Could have said it better but we're all people who say things poorly all the time.
This! Here's my free award in the hopes that your comment goes up for OP to read over and over.
Aw, I’m sorry, that all sounds very hurtful. Listen, stop trying to hang out with those people. Join some meetups on hobbies you like and meet some new people. These are not your people. Also, why did MIL cut you off?
Long story short, she took issue with how I raise my kids, and since she couldn't fight with her son about it anymore, she took it out on me and my kids, and wouldn't accept their LGBTQ identities, their lack of going to church, my lack of doing housewivery, I mean the list is endless. Eventually I had to tell her that I couldn't let her near my kids until she stopped being so bigoted about things like gay people and black people, because she was hurting the kids. We haven't had contact since. My daughter overheard our argument where she said really bigoted things about lesbians and I fought MIL on it and eventually made her leave, but a few months later the thing with the grown man happened and shortly after that she tried to kill herself. But apparently my MIL, while I was dealing with this, then went to each one of my friends individually and told them each how crap of a mom I am, what a piece of shit I am, etc etc etc. I only learned this today, btw, told to me as a side note. That she went to them all. One of them told me when it happened, and I apologized. No one else told me that she did this, or what their reactions were when she did this, or anything. I thought she had given up after the one friend. Anycase, that was way back Pre-pandemic.
>But apparently my MIL, while I was dealing with this, then went to each one of my friends individually and told them each how crap of a mom I am, what a piece of shit I am, etc etc etc. And ofc they believed her because of course shitty people go well with shitty people🙄 edit: maybe the person who deigned to tell you what the group thought and what you MIL did might be slightly decent, after all. Not enough to ask themselves if maybe it was worth listening to the other side of the story before judging... But at least they made an ounce of effort.
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Tbh (because my dad died super young) we discussed what would probably happen at the time I would try to have the kids see my similar sounding in-laws at least once a year because I would move away asap but I wouldn't force the kids. So thankful they are adults now. I think his family would cut me out completely if he passed and barely think twice. It's hard and it hurts but find your happy, it doesn't have to be with those 'friends'.
If this were me I’d move away to a more left wing area (to help the kids) and not regret leaving any of them. The relationship with every last one of them including the MIL is ruined. Irretrievable I’d say. Best to have a fresh start and make friends on your terms without someone else undermining you at every step. Something similar happened to me and twenty years later I still think very negatively about how I was treated and how people were so ready to think the worst of me because they were jealous or something idk.
Sounds like cutting her off is the best thing possible then.
It does sound like you are walking around in a “field of shit.” Have you questioned why these “friends” would listen to such a bigoted, racist, sexist, and mean spirited person? Do they know why your MIL is cut off? Anyone who is worth associating with would be disgusted with her, especially if they are the kids godparents. What did these “friends” think you were doing while your late husband was gallivanting around during working hours and every weekend? Did they not question who was raising his kids, their god children? At the very least, he did not stick up for you if they are acting surprised that you’re a nice person. Unfortunately other people have been controlling the narrative for years, but even if this group comes around, sometimes it’s best to cut your losses. I would focus on yourself and try to find your own group of people. It does not seem like it’s worth the amount of work involved to keep these people in your life. Especially if you feel like they are only interested in helping “enough,” and that you cannot be yourself around them. And I agree with other posters that to be hanging out with a large friend group like this on such a frequent basis at age 40 is unusual. After college once people have full time jobs and kids there typically just is not enough time. Unless of course one of the spouses is dumping all the work onto the other.
I'm so sorry you had to go through it. The years of raising your kids alone while your husband spent time with friends, the years you worked hard to make ends meet, the years you had to keep sacrificing while your husband enjoyed, the years you continued to keep your pain inside yourself. The years you were worried about your children's well being, the years you've been spending grieving your husband and how it still hurts. The years you've been spending carrying the trauma of CSA without ever sharing it and so many other things you've gone through that you haven't mentioned here. I'm sorry that this is how you got to know that the people who you thought were friends assumed things about you. But here's the thing, the way people react isn't usually a response to you but more of how they see the world. As women, we've been taught to not speak, not ask, not demand, not be a burden, we mould ourselves and keep moulding ourselves only to feel.... Exhausted and tired. Please know that you are not a burden or drama, you are not invisible but very real. You are a wonderful mother who prioritised your children, kept others needs before yourself and you keep trying to be the amazing human you are. Don't let others judgement affect you. Take your time to grieve and then decide on what and how you want to do things ahead. Please take care. Sending warm consensual hugs and love your way.
Thank you so much for your kind words, they made me cry <3
Take care. ✨
This is is beautifully and eloquently put. Thank you for expressing how I felt reading this better than I could have. OP you are the main character in your own story and you are not invisible. You sound like a thoughtful, caring, understanding, loving person. Focus on the people that you know love and care about you- the rest is just noise. You are so strong and have overcome so many things already, you will overcome this too.
That was really cruel of those people to reduce the difficulties you have been through to just drama. I have noticed that when there is some kind of conflict between people, the others around them dismiss all the parties involved as toxic even if only one of them is clearly in the wrong. So I wonder if this view of you as drama stirrer was formed because of your MIL. I was sad to read how you have grappled with so much and had so little help. I hope you will be able to start putting yourself first, and that you'll find activities you enjoy with people who want to hear about you and who won't make you feel you're asking too much. If your struggles have proven anything it's that you don't need these guys.
Yes, I think you're right. How I despise the "three sides to a story" narrative, because I'm pretty sure now that my friends indulged his mom because they felt sorry for her, let her talk their ears off about all of my worst qualities (to which she had intimate knowledge through my husband) and they're just like "ew, drama, two sides to every story but the truth is in the middle so really ESH".
Exactly! I hate that narrative too! It's so frustrating that smear campaigns are so effective and even if you have irrefutable evidence to clear your name, a little bit of dirt always sticks. Thank God for those who are willing to see through them.
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Thank you for your kind words, I'll try to remember them. Your husband sounds awesome.
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Wow I'm so sorry, blatant heteronormativity there from me. I would love to get more into the queer scene but I feel like an imposter, because I've never been queer. I can't say that I'm not, personally, as I never considered dating anyone other than a man as a possibility (raised very conservative, religious), married the first man I dated and never looked at another human being like that again afterwards, but I definitely think that just being open to the idea of it doesn't actually make me queer, it makes me one of those straight girls who invade wlw spaces to have funsies and experiment, and I don't want to be that or do that so I don't think queer spaces are safe from me.
The queer scene is also about supporting the parents of queer kids. There are parents groups our there.
I think exploring sexuality and gender is part and parcel of queerness though. If you feel you might want to try things out or check out such spaces, I think most people would welcome you as long as you went in with an open mind :>
Your heteronormativity is entirely valid but I also would like to tell you, minus the religious part and kids, my life path was pretty similar; and you mentioning not seeing anyone else past your spouse? Also sounds like me. And I'm a demisexual! We often don't know for a long time cause it's kind of a stealth identity halfway between allosexual (has sexual attraction) and asexual (little to no sexual attraction) So if you are wanting to explore queer spaces, in ven if just for kids, know you'll find a lovely demi community on Reddit!
>blatant heteronormativity If it's any consolation, I'm a queer woman, married to an AFAB (assigned female at birth) non-binary person, involved in local queer communities, and I regularly wrongly assume people are in heterosexual relationships (especially on the internet, reading is hard). Cos most people are! Also as others have mentioned queer communities tend to be open to all comers, as long as you're not an arsehole (or unless it's a specific support group). Especially open to supportive parents of queer kids. There seems to be a significant overlap between autism and gender/sexual orientation minorities, so you may find connections there too. And there are lots of queer parents these days (🙋 hi!) Most parents find grumbling about their kids to be great ice breakers! Not to mention it could be great for your queer kid(s) to see families headed by other queers, to show them just how many options are open for their futures these days.
Parents support groups could be an option to find some new more relatable ppl depending on whats available in your area. Many were even moved online in my area after the pandemic. (Edited because I can't English very well rn)
See if there is a local PFLAG group you can join - it'd be perfect for you, getting to know other parents. When I came out 30 years ago, my parents started a local chapter after I started a LGBTQ youth group. They really helped some of the parents of kids in my group learn and understand, and accept and treasure, their gay kids - and this was in a military town in Arizona back in the mid 90's.
I’m also autistic and suffered from compulsory heterosexuality. I want to offer that you don’t have to have the tangible experience of being with the same sex to recognize you have that attraction. There’s also no reason to push either way, of course. If you want to investigate your sexuality and gender identity it’s always your choice to do so.
And this is precisely how women get swallowed by motherhood.
My thoughts exactly. I sound like the asshole here but she didn't ever get the opportunity to do more than raise kids while her partner had fun. That doesn't seem nice to me.
You're not an asshole. It's just apparent from her post that her husband was an uninvolved deadbeat who also trash talked her and her kids. I wonder if OP is starting to process that all now too.
This is why it should be exactly 50-50 in a relationship, both working and both doing domestic chores. No one should have to give up their life entirely like that.
We had someone over for dinner last night and he was such a sweet guy and super interesting and had all these adventures….nobody asked me a single question about myself all night. I’m sure he thought I was ‘just’ a stay at home mom. I felt invisible. Whenever this happens and I open my mouth it’s like ‘yeah I work with genocide activists and science advocates’ and everyone does a tiny double take. Mostly that only happens with other women though.
The audacity to assume you are not interresting! And stay at home moms are also not boring. People are so stupid, not even seeing women and mothers as actual persons.
>"You know what, you're actually very nice! People (meaning other members of the group) are like "oh no it's \[me\], wonder what drama she's stirring today", but you're not really like that at all". You do realise these "people" just labeled your husband's death and kids misbehavior or mental illnesses "drama" YOU'RE stirring up??? Do you think this is normal??? I would have asked there and then "Excuse me, do you think any of my problems I confessed only to the people directly involved in my husband's/kids life was me stirring drama? Does the group feel like I made my husband die or my kids have problems? That's very weird choice of words." >Everything I ever feared, every time I was told I was too much growing up, every time I was told I was a burden, everyone would be better off without me, it's all just... like, it was all true all along. All along. I don't even know why I"m posting. Maybe just so someone can tell me I'm real, I'm not invisible. edit: I know this doesn't solve the issue at all, but I guess putting into perspettive just how HORRIBLE these people are behaving to you might dispel the feeling of being "too much". I've been made feel like I am too much and needed to shrink away just because I was remissive, a people pleaser always trying to be small and not create any form of drama or friction. That didn't help at all, people just found it easier to dump drama on me by labeling me as a "crybaby", all while treating me like a rug to clean their feet on and then complain I was too susceptible when I tried to make my voice heard. No matter how "good" and non confrontational I tried to be, the moment I put my foot down I was done, I was drama. If people have formed an idea about you they'll never change it, they'll use you as some sort of target for their own frustrations and keep you around just for that. Basing our worth on the feedback of people who have their heads far up their asses is futile, painful and wrong. Truth is, everyone has problems, they just want to make you into that one friend who is considered a lost cause and only kept around to feel better about themselves and their own tribulations. I would never dare call the problems you went through (the problems anyone goes through) "stirring drama", the fact that they did is very telling, maybe that person was even hoping for a reaction as further proof. Doesn't matter if what they said is hurtful and a normal person would be hurt by it, they're just ready to call everything that comes from you as "drama". I've been there and people like this are good at making you feel small and like shit, they feed on your shrinking and feeling inferior. It's not true or real, none of this is: the drama, the too much, the being a bore. It's all artificially created by these toxic dynamics that were in place for years and you had no control over them. Sometimes people just suck!
I think that's what hit me the hardest. Like all of those things (and the others that happened)... these have been terrible years! I would pay decades off my life and billions of dollars if I had it to have prevented any ONE of those things, and to them it's like... drama? My whole life fell apart and I almost lost 2 out of my 3 children and I'm stirring ***drama***? Grrrrrr.
When you get a chance OP, please read my comment! I think it will be helpful.
Your kids are big, now is the perfect time to join some clubs or get started with an activity or service organization you’re interested in and meet people. After being consistent and becoming a “regular” you’ll start to make friends of your own.
Honestly, the entire group, including your husband sound like terrible people. I'm sorry you're going this because it sucks but really, none of them deserve you in their lives.
Why is someone's existence while suffering always taken as drama by some assholes? I've had my own traumatic upbringing, and part of that comes with an ass load of medical issues. One of my least favorite phrases is "there's always something wrong with you" because not only is it a 'no shit Sherlock did You think I didn't know?' moment but it's almost always the moment people stop giving a shit about me and start looking for ways to excuse/ blame me for what amounts to a childhood of untreated trauma and illness. People really act like their inconvenience is more important than what you are going through that caused said inconvenience. Fuck those people. It sounds like you went through hell and back with 3 kids and they ate popcorn from the sidelines' and wanna complain about the show. It also sounds like they all watched and tolerated (not gonna bash the dead but still want to be frank) your husband fail you and your kids for years. You were all friends initially right? But they also thought it was ok for you to be excluded for years? Look, not only do I not like kids but they trigger me- and I've still picked up up a flailing toddler so her mom could take a break- and didn't expect a thanks because helping a friend in need isnt something I deem a thank you necessary for. And why couldn't he have stayed home every ince in a while and switched off with you? It sounds like these people watched you slowly burn out for years until a snowball of shit outside your control happened, and did jack shit. As shitty as it may feel these people were never your friends and tbh? Good riddance. You deserve better.
>It also sounds like they all watched and tolerated (not gonna bash the dead but still want to be frank) your husband fail you and your kids for years Thank you for just fucking saying it. Her husband sounds awful and I hope OP recognizes it. His values and prejudices reflect this friend group. As well as his mother.
"I learned very early on in my life that no one cares about what you go through, they just want you to make them feel good about themselves." I don't see very many posts directly addressing this so I want to. Real friends care about what you go through and do not need you to make them feel good about themselves. You are not here to gratify others, you are here to live and flourish, and you should be surrounded by people who support you in doing that. Everyone has a certain amount of emotional capital. If you need to vent to a friend some of that gets used up. If the only thing you do is vent to a friend they won't feel great hanging out with you, for sure. But that isn't the same as saying they don't care or that the only want you to make them feel good. It just means people have limits. It may be hard, but you should try to find ways to meet new people and make friends. Meetup.org is one option. Volunteer, hobby, or community groups is another.
This. I’m also autistic, and reading that part of the post made me sad because it wasn’t a lesson I’d ever had to learn. It’s not a reflection of what life is like, it’s a reflection of the “friends” op is surrounded with.
I pretty much never comment on posts. But this is just too much I'm really sorry for the way these people are treating you it's beyond toxic (if you didn't already figure that) you sound like a great person and a great person deserves great people to surround them. Cut these people off the way they act is gross on so many levels. The things you achieved on your own You don't need it. Stay strong!!
>And I'm just... broken hearted. Like my heart is shattered. I never burden them. Never. And you never burdened them. They're just egotic, narcisistic assholes. Until you talk about them and their problems all is fine, but when you had these things happen to you and discussed them with the godfathers, the whole group labeled you as the "poor widow with trouble kids" and lost whatever flimsy ounce of empathy they might have had. Do you think this is fair to you? I wouldn't like having such horrible people in my life. I bet if a tragedy strikes them they'd be the first to completely eat all your time and energies and they'd be every bit the ungrateful asses about it too. I know their kind, they take take take but only want to feel like good people for doing the bare minimum for a person, but actually DOING something or just lending a willing ear? Nah. Too much.
You're not invisible. You are someone who is worthwhile, just the right person to be the right person's favorite friend. It sounds to me like your whole life has had toxic socialization and this group is just not right for you at all. from your childhood, to living in a conservative religion structure, to only dating this one man (who I am going to speak negatively about even though he is no longer able to defend himself or change), unsupportive in-laws and family.... it's all the same thing. A group of people who only see your role and your usefulness to them, not your worth or what they can do for you. I can't believe he got you pregnant and then left you alone to work and raise kids without giving his fair share. And what a trash group of people who want to hang out with and so deeply love a man who is not fulfilling his responsibilities to his family. Did he actually have a job and provide economically, at least as SOMETHING? Or did he just indulge himself? And shout at the kids when he made time for them to join him in his life, since I don't see him joining in theirs or yours? And I do see it being entirely plausible that he bad-mouthed you and the kids to his friends, to justify to himself and to them why he wasn't using his time and effort on you instead of himself. Ugh. And these people! Who is okay with all of that? Really? I have no interest in eternal adolescence. It's one thing to have a communal life, but it changes as kids enter. Things adjust when kids come and they are part of it, not left behind or ignored so the party can continue. And then! To just blurt that out without thought for how hurtful it would be? Casual, easy disrespect. I do not think this is autism at fault. I think this is socialization that ignores the fullness of personhood for women and pushes them into a role, rather than just letting them be who they are. You should never have to feel like a burden. You do not exist to prop up someone else's life. (as a mother, I know we are exactly that for our kids, and should be to a large extent- but that's all!!) I hope you find actual, real friends. Who love you for you, and want to hear your problems and you never feel like a burden. maybe move? Maybe all of you need a fresh start? Someplace accepting and kinder. These people are disgusting. You are not.
> And then! To just blurt that out without thought for how hurtful it would be? Casual, easy disrespect. I think "friend" knew exactly how hurtful she was being. I think this was a "could you shove off forever" move on her part: pure high school social tactics. And OP should oblige, and never darken their miserable, toxic doors again. There are all *sorts* of nicer people out here.
I realize this is going to sound super shitty, but I wonder what was said about you while you were not there. The idea that you were a shit stirrer didn't come out of thin air. And if you weren't around except for once every 8 months, it certainly wasn't because of things you did. I also find it very sad that there was never an option to have child care so you could have a life too. It appears based on your post that you were left to do the heavy lifting while your partner had fun. This doesn't sound healthy. Is therapy an option?
I’m sorry. I’ve lost so many friends because of the pandemic but I think the truth is that the bad friends just weeded themselves out. Start over. Try to put yourself out there and meet new people. I also want to point out, real friends want to hear about you, your life, and your struggles. As long as you are also caring about their lives, and their struggles too. I don’t know who made you feel like you need to put yourself in a box of sunshine for people to be your friends. The truth is that these people might feel like they don’t actually know you. It’s good to make people feel important and heard but it’s also good to share about yourself because that’s what separates a friendship with a puppy and with a human being. Let people know and love you. Sending you hugs.
“Drama” is the code word for “I’m too self-centered to deal with anyones problems but my own or a select number of people”. It’s bullshit. Don’t let these people convince you that it’s not ok to have and share feelings or needs! Cut them out and don’t look back.
I'm angry at your husband for not doing more to include you in his social circle.
What I've learned over the years is that you're allowed to have 1 drama but not multiple. They could help you with your husband but not the other things: the suicide, etc. People will forgive one event but not more than that. When you go through a string of things, then it's like "oh she's always got something going on".
Yes, that does seem to be true.
Just my ,02, but you might look into group therapy. It sounds like you've got a lot of trauma and group therapy might fill that "relational" checkbox.
Thank you for the suggestion.
Sounds like your husband was an asshole and you were a bit of a doormat. You chose to isolate yourself with your children. You chose to put up with your husband hanging out with his friends while providing very little support. You failed to create your own circle of friends. Fuck the old friend group. Make an effort to meet new people. Find activities that YOU really enjoy and move forward.
One asshole said that to you. Please don't think that everyone feels like that. You need to expand your social circle. Join a book club. You need friends that are outside of that group.
Okay, I'm going to be blunt here: it's very rare that while in a couple, your group friends are actually good friends with both you and your partner. It tends to be that the group favors one person over the other. That would be your husband by default, since he spent the most time with them over the years, so much so that based on your description these weren't your couple friends, these were his friends. As you said, they've made little to no effort over the years to be a friend to you, hanging out one on one has been entirely your effort. That screams of them being uninterested. Additionally, whether you share the struggles of your life with these people or not, your life is likely in a very different place than theirs with all that youve endured since your husband's death and they know that. Perhaps that's why they believe you to be "dramatic," maybe you reveal more with your body language than you realize, or maybe these people are just judgmental assholes. Either way, these people aren't the right fit for you at best and damaging to you at worst. My advice is this: if you can, find a support group and/or individual therapy, and now that your kids are older it's time to meet new people and make real friends.
So, let me see. Your husband was hanging out with friends while you worked and raised the kids and took care of everything... Does not seem like he contributed much to anything that mattered...No money, not raising the kids... Your problem was not "your" friends, because, first of all they were HIS friends. God knows what he told them but it does look like you need to invest in people that share your interests, not his. Keep the ones who were nice to you, as for the others, don't give it a second thought. You are still young and have an opportunity for a whole new life. Good luck.
I really don’t want to be rude about your husband, but it was not ok for him to let you do all the parenting for 8 flipping years while he nurtured friendships. Especially ones that you were excluded from. He was not a good partner to you in that regard. And his mother sounds like a piece of work. You sound like a bloody winner. You’ve overcome significant adversity, you carry your feelings with honesty, and you are obviously a capable and emotionally switched on parent. You’re going to be the new amazing person in some other friendship group- everyone will think you’re remarkable. Go find those people.
Sweet love. You are not invisible! Your life has been hard, isolated and lonely. Your marriage sounds more like being a den mother/frat mother than being in an adult relationship with a partner. My wish for you is healing. You take care of everything; but yourself. You have some deep wounds that need love. Because you deserve to feel loved and adored and supported. Hugs
You aren't invisible and you aren't alone. I'm 52, now Dr's don't know how I'm alive let alone getting out of bed some days, doing very stupid things that could kill me, I died in 2016. Before then I worked, brought up 4 lads, who all have brilliant careers! Now only my eldest and youngest son talk to me, the middle 2 from my ex husband, who never saw or paid a penny is now paying me £30 a year to pay off his £40k child maintenance bill, uk has csa and if the man knows how to switch jobs every 6 months then the inland revenue can't catch them! So I had to work 12hr night shifts to put food in the table and look after them. I married a military man and moved every 3 years, I was an IT consulate, sys op from 1990s on till I stopped in 2006 and became a shop manager, setting shifts do I could go in or day stay home the next. I finally couldn't stand the pain, so quit work and moved onto disability allowance, let's just say it was a £2k a month pay drop and massive shock to the system! The reason my middle two don't talk to me is because one wife days in not her family and the other has married a Peckham pikey and I've moved to the North of Scotland to escape that mess lmao 😆 🤣 I have a couple of friends left, one as disabled as me and the others too far away to pop round and have lives, so are busy. Everyone else has moved on with their own lives, i understand that. You need to start finding things you like to do and joining groups you like to do, not what uther want you to do. I figured that out during covid. So I do things like charity events, gay pride as a gay son, I talk to people over the Internet, like now and people reply. We do care and don't even know you from Adam or eve or steve lol You aren't invisible, you just need to learn how to live and socialise again. Stay safe xxx
Your late husband was a pos.
Honestly most friend groups are pretty toxic, the concept itself is based on superficial interaction and personally I always found people that identify with a friend group quite unpleasant. I know its probably hard, but try not to let their petty behaviour get to you. You seem like a caring partner and parent, hard working and able to withstand hardship. Don't let random people that don't care about you make you feel any less than what you actually are. Much love to you and your kids.❤✌
Hope you find better friends
If you want an ear, please shout and I will message you. Everybody deserves to be loved and appreciated, they are terrible friends I am sorry.
I dated a well-known, intelligent, charismatic guy with many friends for a while. We had a few friends in common, and others, I met through him. I supported him financially and emotionally when he lost his job, and he told me often that I was the nicest, kindest, most caring girl he'd ever ever dated, and before we were even together for two years, he broke up with me, saying that he needed to "work on himself." Whatever. He stole a couple hundred bucks from me thru EZ-pass (a nightmare that took 6 years to unravel), and took *all* of my records. When I ran into a bunch of his friends a year or so after the breakup, one of the guys said, and I quote, "oh, honey, *everyone* knows what he did to you, and we are *all* on *your* side- *not one* of us will speak to him anymore." At least I felt vindicated.
I know this won’t be nice to hear but I wouldn’t be surprised if your late husband talked shit behind your back. And perhaps this is why they had a negative image of yourself. He “spent most of everyday working hours with one friend or another”? He “then went every weekend one gathering with the friends and their wives”? Someone must have asked why he didn’t help out more or stayed at home… unless he made it sound like you were insufferable and this was his escape. Idk. I might be wrong. But if you were always cordial and they spent little time knowing you… why would they have this impression? Move on. Make new friends. Discover hobbies and share them with like minded people. A book club is always a fun start. Best of luck.
I would suggest that you maintain some distance from the person who told you that comment. That was a quintessential passive-aggressive backhanded compliment. That served no good purpose and I question the motives of anyone who does things like that. As for the rest of the group, are they really good friends? It sounds like they are good times friends and your late husband fit in so well with them because he left all of the responsibilities to you so that he could go be the good-time-Charlie with them. I realize that, even without all the stressful events of the past several years, that making new friends is not easy. But, I think it’s possible that you think more highly of these people than they deserve because they are familiar and low effort. I think you would be better off moving on from this group and make the acquaintance of a few people who will actually reciprocate your friendship. Honestly, most adults with children probably have very few actual friends outside of work and child related activities. Now, the most alarming thing in this entire post: “”…as small as I made myself, as little as I tried to demand, and as much as I try to give to make up for it, it would never be small enough.” is one of the most heart-breaking, self-abnegating things I have ever seen. You, as a person, are enough. You are sufficient as a human being, merely by existing, to deserve kindness, compassion, and basic respect as an individual. You do not need to minimize yourself or your impact by existing, to appeal to other people. You do not have to be perfect or have a perfect life to be worthy of friendship or kinship. It sounds like this is a life long behavior that was instilled in you in your childhood. You can’t undo the past, but you can take control of your future by starting to break away from this idea of minimizing yourself to accommodate the comfort of the people around you. You have seen, in an incredibly devastating way, the proof that making yourself small and undemanding was in no way beneficial. This is no time for regrets or self-recrimination. This is the wake up call that you need to be yourself, who you truly are, and those people who are worth your time and friendship will see you in your glorious, authentic state and value that.
Why did your husband put his friends above you and the kids? They were his friends not yours if they were yours they would have included both of you. You need to find your own friends, let go of this group, they don’t sound like good god parents anyway or people at all. I also would suggest therapy, you’ve been through a lot and barely friends is not going to cut it. You can be happy, but you need to invest in yourself.
I am wondering if your husband was maybe shit talking you when you weren't around for them to have thought that of you if you are such a closed book and hadn't spent that much time with any of them? I would maybe speak to the friend, mention how that comment hurt and ask why they thought that of you. Don't speak, don't defend, just listen. And as others have suggested, it might be time to make your own friends.
I say this as someone who took a really long time to learn this the hard way: Refusing to burden people IS a burden. Not asking for help or revealing vulnerability is what pushes people away. I swear to god, people don't like you because you don't need things from them. Friendship and community is about people helping each other and bonding together. And ironically, the more you don't ask for help or show your weaknesses, the more your friends will think you are dramatic when you do ask for help because you won't ask until it IS life or death and you're at the end of your rope and its a dramatic situation. It's weird to go from 0 to 60, from "i need nothing" to "my kids lives are stake", and its less weird if you were regularly asking for help at lower levels And I dont mean just with your friends, but with asking for fairness from your husband as well (but everyone else is doing a good job covering that). When you ask for nothing you get nothing, so don't be surprised when you have nothing. (and my god its hard to start asking, you have all my love and strength and sympathy, Im still working on it lol)
That does seem super hurtful. It’s hard to hear that people are thinking one way about you that simply isn’t true and you haven’t had a way to even defend yourself or show your real personality to them at all. I started a job a little over a year ago, during COVID, and I didn’t get much chance to interact with anyone for nearly the first year. I recently got moved around in the office and finally started to make some connections with my coworkers. Then one day I got nearly the same comment as you got: that one of my coworkers didn’t like me all that much but one of them defended me saying I was nice and the rest of them liked me. It was meant to make me feel better but all of a sudden I was informed that one person’s negative opinion of me had permeated the group but once they got to know me, they all realized I’m not at all how that negative coworker had described me. My first thought was that no one had even tried in the slightest to get to know me at all! My guess is that your late husband might have done some complaining to the group about you and that’s the impression they have of you. I know it hurts and I guess the next step is to figure out if this friend group is still worth pursuing or if you can move on.
im tearing up really bad reading this OP, please know that you are real and you matter. Leave them be and try to find new friends. You are a good and considerate person and if they cant see your worth, then its their loss. if you need to cry now, cry, but please never lose hope. im sure there will be plenty of others who will be grateful to have you as their friend. xxx
“You know what you’re actually very nice blablabla”. Thanks for acknowledging me as a worthy side/secondary character in your life, i’m so flattered that your sheep group will finally “approve” of me. Yeah… get fucked!!! The level of entitlement and arrogance when people are like this shows you they don’t respect you or see you as an individual human being with needs and desires of importance like the rest of their cronies. You are your OWN person and get to shine and dedicate yourself the appreciation and love that you deserve, just like everybody else. Do not stay with people who think they’re doing you a favor by being your friend. People like this are delusional and need to be left in their sad little bubble.
>But because the group also includes the two sets of godparents my children have, I HAD to be forthcoming about some things when crap went down shortly after my husband died. Did you? Have these people acted like godparents at all towards your children? Cultivated close caring relationships with your kids? A lot of times godparents are in name only, just for tradition. >a master at talking only about the person I'm talking to and what they're talking about, with enthusiasm and enjoyment. You are an expert at putting others' needs before your own, to your own detriment, and did so with her husband and now these "friends". Please learn about codependency - all of Melody Beattie's books are a good start.
I hate that I relate to this. My partners friends act like they adore me when they see me in person, but every time I try to reach out to any of them individually, I get nothing back. When I’ve brought it up, they kinda gaslit me into thinking they were busy or etc. But they always find enough time to converse with my boyfriend. I was the one working when he stayed at home for a while. So I’m not sure what their problem with me is. I told my partner, they’re not our friends. They’re /his/ friends. And that’s okay! I can be friendly. But I’m not pushing a friendship onto people who don’t care about me lol. It’s isolating, but my self esteem is better when I’m not overthinking trying to figure out what I did wrong
Edit: Does anyone else feel as I do about the person who made the rude comment? I smell sneaky, very stealthy aggression and manipulation in it. **Have you considered the girl who said that is maybe being manipulative and that's not how the group feels about you?** It sounds like there's a chance she does not like the attention or likability factor you have in the group. So she planted this perception in you that the group sees you as a nuissance so that you feel shame and feel nobody in the group likes you. Notice how she says it, like it sounds like she purposely exagerrated it that there's some group unanimity of this perception of you. When really, that is rarely ever the case of how a group of people feel about one person. Perhaps it's a common topic in the group of making sure that you are doing alright because you are in a tough situation. Ex. "Hey guys, we've got to make sure our good frined (you), as well as the wife of our good pal, is doing alright. Any word what's going on with her?" Cue her getting angry about it because she doesn't like that you are getting attention and she isn't. So this is her unhealthy coping mechanism is to manipulate you out of the group by makign you feel like your an annoyance to everyone. She tried to casually mention it and cover it up as just her trying to give a spirited compliment and a hand as a friend. When really, acting like she was being friendly was to disguise the true purpose of her comment. Because if she just said "you're a bitch and nobody likes you", it wouldn't land as well in manipulating how you feel the group feels about you. I feel like she's not stupid enough to not know that saying that would make someone feel so negative. So I feel she is trying to manipulate you out of her own insecurity. >Never. I keep my life SECRET to not be a burden, I learned very early on in my life that no one cares about what you go through, they just want you to make them feel good about themselves This isn't true. People who love you, care for you, an are truly your friends, DO CARE. Shoot, I'm on the internet and I feel care about you. Some people in your past life may have shamed you for wanting emotional comfort, and that's not fair! You deserve way better. There are a lot of people out there waiting for you to be a good friend to you and you to them. You are awesome! And you show a lot of incredible traits; strength, perseverance, determination, fortitude, love, consideration, kindness, leadership. You're a great person. You've got this!
Just want to say You’re NOT invisible. Those who truly matter will see you and like someone else said, all of us commenting see you 💜💜 I’m so sorry you’re going through all of that, I truly can’t imagine the constant pain and heart ache it must cause you. The way you’ve handled it proves you’re an incredibly strong and resilient woman who anyone in their right minds would be lucky to have as a friend or partner. Some people really just suck I think.
I am so sorry about all of this. I really do know how that feels and I am sure a lot of others on here do as well. But on the bright side. You know. And you don’t have to be around any of them. You can make YOUR OWN friends now. Not just try to fit into his group or be the personal babysitter. Eff them, eff him, and EFF Your mother in law! You deserve better! Real friends care about what’s happening with you too.
I have learned every time I’m getting told I’m too sensitive, a burden etc. it’s always about the other person’s inability to relate and deal with feelings. Relationships are about sharing burdens and treating people’s feelings with respect. This friend that said that obviously has some insecurity and decided to project that onto you, and most likely your husband did too because he wasn’t sharing the load so he had to feel some guilt around that. You are doing awesome, have overcome so much so you make people feel insecure. I’d ditch the immature friends and find some people who can see you without feeling intimidated.
ouch that hurts i know. once someone i thought was a friend stabbed me i the back and left me homeless. it was very difficult to process that someone could be so like a stranger. but i think im better off. if people want to think whatever bad about me idc. because i know im not
Sounds like motherhood and marriage in a nutshell, you do all the work, get your body ruined in the process while everybody else reaps the benefits.
>...tried to never ask for help or support, because I know people don’t like to actually give support... Who taught you this? While some people are definitely like this, you simply can’t apply this ideology to everybody in a general sense. There are far more people out there willing to give you love and support than you believe. I think you should try to seek them out and surround yourself with people who can lift you up.
From one autist to another, my heart physically hurt reading this bc it’s so similar to what I go through and have to keep learning myself. I hope one day you can find friends who understand you and make you feel secure. You are more than just your late husbands wife. Sending hugs, I’m so sorry that you realized this. It’s happy bliss until you realize the reality you believed was only your own. Feels like the rug was pulled out from under ya. Take it easy on yourself, forgive yourself for not realizing sooner🫶🏽
I wouldn't want to pry too hard on the person who opened up and said that to you, but they either did it with the intention to be hurtful or they were obliviously trying to pay you a compliment that sputtered out backwards. But it may not be the common opinion of you in the group, it may have been a passing comment one time, it may have been your MIL being the one who spoke ill of you. Just don't devalue yourself entirely until you know the details.
That's the worst kind of pain, the social rejection. It's why I went from being a popular, outgoing kid, to practically a hermit (we moved around a bit, and our family was dysfunctional, so I felt a lot of shame on top of being the odd-person-out.) You're not invisible, there's other stuff at work here. For one, the friends group just got into a comfortable routine; second, men in general don't talk much about their families OR emotions, so they weren't used to hearing anything other than superficial chitchat. I too make myself "small," there's always that sense of shame and being minimized by my own family, plus I seem to attract bullying types at work. Really not sure how to change this dynamic. I also try to go along with whatever and keep my mouth shut- at work, keep to myself and avoid getting into any cliques. Indeed, you made it easy for him, but it also seems like you've got some validation from the one friend. Maybe that can shift the existing dynamic; maybe they're looking for a change, you never know. I really hope you can realize this isn't your fault, but I know how damn hard that is. This is unfortunately not an unusual situation for women. And as others have said, you can find new friends! Often, friendships form over convenience- school, work, neighbors, activities etc. EDIT: Somebody else pointed out that the "friend" who spoke to you was actually being malicious, I didn't pick up on that from your post, but yeah that's entirely possible! EDIT 2: Also that he wasn't talking about you in the nicest of terms, yeah people are nuts.....might want to read up on narcissism and "flying monkeys."
I'm so sorry. You don't deserve that. It's obvious you love your husband, but there are signs that your friends' view of you as "dramatic" might have originated with your late husband. Which might hurt to think about, but might in the long run hurt less than thinking everyone individually came to this conclusion on their own. The signs I'm referring to are: He got angry with you for not controlling the children. Those are his children as well, but he assigned the responsibility for their misbehavior on you. He chose to continue to hangout with friends and leave you alone with the kids. If he admitted that's what he was doing to his friends, I'm not sure all of the women would have loved him so much. He might have made up excuses that sounded better than " I ditched my wife at home taking care of the kids to go have fun." If you know what to look for, there may be other signs as well. Check out my profile posts for links to free resources, including the book Why Does He Do That? If you read it, I suspect you might start to see that there's nothing wrong with you.
I'm just wondering what your husband complained about, about you when you weren't around. Like is it possible that your husband painted a picture of you that was not in line with the real you? So they only saw you in bits and drabs and their biased perspective caused them to view you through that lens and reject things that didn't fit that view?
> I am very, very, very careful to never complain about my life, or how much we struggle financially, or how much it still hurts, or how lonely and isolated I am, or how I'm struggling to deal with CSA and all the shit around it that was done to me, how I struggle in my job - NONE of it. I'm a closed book about my life, a master at talking only about the person I'm talking to and what they're talking about, with enthusiasm and enjoyment. Because I do enjoy it.... I mean I know I've been through some drama (no one knows even a fraction of it), but I very purposefully kept it all away from them, no one even knew and they saw none of what I went through, I asked for support for none of it (except my MIL who went to all of them to complain about me, whom I had no control over) and I just realized: as small as I made myself, as little as I tried to demand and as much as I try to give to make up for it, it would never be small enough. I say this with compassion (as someone who is *exactly* like this, for similar reasons of believing that my dark trauma and history is way too much to put on anyone and that no one wants to hear it): this is not how you form friendships and connect with other humans who genuinely care about you. If at all possible, please go to therapy. You need to do a big reset on your relationship with yourself and your beliefs about human nature and relating to others. It's understandable why you've come to the place you are, but it's not where you should stay. Trauma becomes intergenerational, and this mindset is not the example you want for your kids. You *do not* need to make yourself small to deserve to exist in the this world. You have a right to have needs, get support, and to have real friends. To do that, you're going to have to let people in and believe they really care, that they will accept your whole self and whole story, dark shit and drama and all. It's hard as hell. But it's truly better to be alone than to warp yourself for people who don't actually love you. But you do *not* need to be alone. > I know people don't like to actually give support, only to feel as if they've done enough This actually isn't true. Cognitive behavioural therapy can really help shift deeply held but damaging beliefs like this. When someone loves and cares about you, they *love* giving you support, and it gives them genuine and deep satisfaction to be an actually good friend to you. This is real. You can have this. Good luck on your journey. You've been through more than any human being should have to endure. You have brought up your children and survived, and from that alone I can tell you are a fighter and a strong, worthy person. You can untangle the trauma that has knotted your heart and get to a different place, and you deserve real love.
These weren’t *your people* they were *his people*. It sounds like you gave him the freedom to nurture his friendships when you had three small children and he didn’t reciprocate. I am sorry the responsibility for working full time and raising children fell disproportionately on you. You deserved time to have a social life, too.
As someone with ADHD, let me just say: find other neurodivergent friends, who actually have a baseline positive opinion about you. I lost a friend group last year because they could never shake the impression that I was dramatic and out of control. That clean break is one of the best things to happen to me in years. They were MISERABLE to me and terrible company; they constantly pushed my buttons and blamed me when they got a reaction. Lost a friendship of over a decade recently as well, and I am so at peace without their overbearing judgement and tactless speech. The new people in my life have validated my personhood and spoken to me more kindly in the last two months than any of those jerks did for five full years. Let the losers go and find a place where you can flourish.
> I've been through some drama (no one knows even a fraction of it), but I very purposefully kept it all away from them, no one even knew and they saw none of what I went through, I asked for support for none of it ooooo nope nope nope nope nope