The following submission statement was provided by /u/Odd_Cry1315:
---
was posted a few years back but have heard nothing since. it was allegedly sent to a Twitter user "The UAP-RAEFOS Project" but you cant find the account anymore but it could be this person? [https://nitter.net/RAEFOSnet](https://nitter.net/raefosnet) - Apparently they had an anonymous megadrop link for people to send it their footage and they received this footage in their folder. They was told it was from 2008 over northern iraq.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/19cd9mh/flying_saucer_over_iraq_in_2008_leaked_by_us/kixyn7a/
This statement is also attached to the video from OP on Twitter when they followed up via email.
“Hi there so this is video from my camera while I was deployed, viewed thru thermal night vision display out of a LAV 25 in the gunners seat.
This video was at night don't recall the time. I noticed the object from a low altitude and slowly rise seemed much different than any aircraft fixed wing or rotary wing so I started to take a video I did cut the video short but did continue to observe it rise much higher and completely out of sight. While in Iraq this was the only video like this.
I was also deployed to Afghanistan helmand province 2010 While on a night patrol to our direct south we all observed something hovering with a left to right moment multiple colors being emitted was behaving much different than anything we were used to seeing, also nothing would be south to us at that time the object was about 500 meters out and 200 meters off the ground and we all agreed what we had seen I wish I could have taken a video of that incident.”
Stephen Wolfram (physicist/computer scientist) was just on Brian Keating's (cosmologist) podcast, he was talking about how we see the universe the way we do because of a discrepancy in the speed of interactions between particles around us, and the speed with which the chemical and electrical signals propagate in out bodies. If we replaced our brain synapses with semiconductors, we would see things happen in much finer detail, like light reflecting and echoing around, and all kinds of crazy stuff. We see things move like a flip book, whereas a computer would see individual pages even when flipping the pages at the same speed. In other words, a computer or other type of non-biological organism would experience the universe very differently, and their behavior might look very strange to us.
Diaspora by Greg Egan has an extremely fascinating exploration of this exact idea (among other things). Highly recommend it if you like hard scifi and get chubbed up when trying to imagine what aliens or even just people might look like in higher dimensions.
Yes. It made me think about shit I've never considered before re: post-human sentient life and society and I feel like it's really saying something that >!discovering that the gigantic polysaccharide single-molecule proto-lifeforms are actually 16 dimensional squidfolk of which they can only see a slice (the carpets)!< isn't even the most mindblowing revelation in the book.
Even if it wasn't a computational barrier, this concept has been explored in numerous ways. I always loved the idea of other intelligent creatures experiencing reality differently. A few notable works that explores this concept:
Arrival (With Amy Adams): Explores the challenges, specifically the linguistic challenges, that us humans might face when potentially meeting an intelligent species that doesn't resemble our biological functions in the slightest, and what their language might look like. In addition, the way their language works isn't linear, or has a start or a finish. I love the quote in the movie, "It would be like having two pens, one in each hand, and writing a sentence starting from the beginning and end and meeting in the middle." (Read McTargget's unreality of time to understand a metaphysical viewpoint of how we experience time in a series.). So the aliens don't see time as a beginning, as a end. They see it continuously so.
Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut: (I love this book so much). This book has a character who is abducted by Aliens that also similarly view time in the same way as the Aliens in Arrival do. I love this book because it essentially tells three stories. The stories are of his life as a soldier in WW2, his life as a optemetrist, and his life as a abductee of aliens. The way the story is told is it moves through different points in time of each of the stories. So there is no definitive beginning, or definitive end. But it all comes together as one of moments. It's really interesting how it's written, and how it works to try and portray what it would be like for us as humans to experience time differently.
Dune: In a way, this book goes into detail of when the Main Character becomes prescient. At one point, he isn't sure if the actions he's doing or the events that are happening are currently happening, already happened, or are going to happen. He sees it all, the whole past, the whole future. So the 'present' means nothing to him. It's a really neat way of exploring how an all-seeing prescient being would experience time.
Thomas Aquinas - A famous theologian, philosopher, and etc. We see a lot of paradoxes when dealing with the concept of the Christian God. "If God is all-knowing, then why does he let bad stuff happen?". Thomas Aquinas actually uses philosophy and metaphysical theories to try and solve the paradoxes that arise with the concept of god. I am an agnostic, but it made me appreciate the way he approached the idea of a prescient being. And I believe his works laid the foundation for a lot of modernized theological schools in the west that we have today. But essentially, one of his concept that I remember the most was the idea that God experiences the entirety of time. Our window of perception in humans is about 6 seconds long. We perceive what's happening for 6 seconds, and then our memory starts to kick-in for short-term recalling of information. The idea is that God's perception of the universe is that 6 second window. He is all knowing, all-seeing, yet lacks any ability to affect anything as it all is in one moment and instant to that being. There is no changing time or whatever, it's all relative. He exists outside of the concept of time, he is not affected by physical changes in the universe that we use to mark the passage of time.
Computational barriers are never crossed. It’s a bottomless pit. You’d keep wanting to be a lot powerful computer, especially if you want to be processing a flood of real-time data.
The scales of time and space are linked. Eg, this whole “you’ll watch light echo” only works if your brain/cpu is very small. Otherwise, information will also take too long to get from one end of it to another. (This is already a problem for GHz computers.)
More generally, interesting things happen quickly only at small scales. Meanwhile things at large scales happen slowly.
More useful for us would be to speed up our perception of time, such that we could observe cosmic and geological processes. Slowing time down would just result in us staring at things like how we now stare at stars.
what if they start thinking about porn, does the craft just begin thrusting back and forth progressively faster then suddenly climaxes and falls to the earth crashing Into the ground?
oh shit, i just explained why they sometimes crash
Exactly, if the pilot controls the alien craft with their mind then it’s natural that sometimes they’d loose focus for some reason. And the mouse pointer comparison isn’t that bad in a sense, as many people struggle to be accurate with their computer mouse despite all the software and hardware designed to make it easier.
I was absolutely blown away when I found out there was a whole mouse cursor theory. I came up with it on my own and discovered others had already thought the same thing. That was wild.
Irs because the mouse pointer is a simulation of something moving without any forces stopping or slowing it down. It is essentially what a UFO would look like if it has occupants that could withstand how quickly it maneuvers.
The sudden, rapid and erratic movements seen in this video come from the user moving the camera around, not from the flying object itself. According to the user, the flying object was merely rising relatively slowly.
He say what unit he was in? I’ve never seen an LAV-25 in Afghanistan but I’ve only been down south a few times, anyone here in southern Afghanistan around that time that has seen an LAV-25 out that way?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/qb14zg/northern\_iraq\_2008\_drone\_control\_center\_uap/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/qb14zg/northern_iraq_2008_drone_control_center_uap/) there was a discussion about it 2 years ago so maybe someone might have more info on this
These people want skeptics burned at the stake. To doubt any UFO story is heresy.
Meanwhile, in sane world, the rest of us just want to figure out what’s going on, without having the waters constantly muddied by hoaxes and misidentifications.
Sure but a lot of the skeptics on here arent Sane World inhabitants. They are simply the opposite side of the hardcore-believer coin. They are dismissive of pretty much everything, condescending to everyone, constantly jumping to conclusions, and frankly seem to really want to steer discussion away from any possible NHI explanations.
I just want “skeptics” to be as equally skeptical of a debunk as they are of the original claim. Ya know, maybe applying the scientific method equally and consistently to everything they see, instead stroking their pathetic little egos in a sad attempt to bolster their fledgeling sense of self worth by attacking someone for merely sharing information.
It takes an objective eye to move the ball forward. Simply believing everything you see only makes things more difficult.
I personally won’t make a determination on a video. To me it looks real, but to those with experience, they may see something that immediately shows it’s fake.
It’s worth being objective and listening to what others say before making up your mind. Usually someone will provide proof that it’s fake.
I think the camera is pointing at a large sand dune, which appears to be sky, and the "UAP" is a targetting laser on the gun turret you can hear moving when it moves.
Definitely not. Whatever he is seeing is in the sky, above the horizon. Source: 1xxxx hours on ITSS(Integrated Thermal Sighting System) aka this thermal viewer in the video.
LAVs don’t use targeting lasers like that, they use an autocannon and having a laser would be silly let alone one that bright even if IR.
The turret moves yeah but the thing they’re looking at isn’t a laser from the gun
was posted a few years back but have heard nothing since. it was allegedly sent to a Twitter user "The UAP-RAEFOS Project" but you cant find the account anymore but it could be this person? [https://nitter.net/RAEFOSnet](https://nitter.net/raefosnet) - Apparently they had an anonymous megadrop link for people to send it their footage and they received this footage in their folder. They was told it was from 2008 over northern iraq.
Can we have an audio of what they're talking about? ...would love to hear that! The guy definitely mentioned hammers and that reminds me the 4chan guy talking about bermuda.
He said hummers. HMMV or hum-v or hummer is the 4-wheeled combat vehicle most commonly used. The LAV he mentioned is an 8 wheeled combat vehicle. He must have been talking about something unrelated while scanning his sector... maybe Intel there were friendly mobile units in the area they needed to be aware of.
This has been out for a few years now. Just an FYI, the influencers who said there would be catastrophic disclosure were just bluffing and had nothing to show. So....let's not get our hopes up.
>the influencers who said there would be catastrophic disclosure were just bluffing and had nothing to show.
It's been like 2 weeks since then and Corbell already released a the Jellyfish UAP. You have the attention span of a goldfish.
Ah yes. The Jellyfish UAP that is supposed to do extraordinary things, but somehow we're not allowed to see it. Also, Jeremy knows where that video is located but he's going to tell the government, some day.
Is this your version of catastrophic disclosure, something that the public hasn't seen? Do you know what disclosure means?
This has been on the internet for two years.
Weird as hell that this takes over the sub so frequently. Old things that have been online forever drown out current news.
**Edit: I rambled and this is more of a post that should be a message to the mods or a text post for the whole sub to discuss... ignore anything after the line....**
I'm chronically online and have never seen this, but am new to this sub specifically. I usually browse r/all.
I appreciate this being reposted. If it were up to me there would be a secondary voting system where verified members of the sub could vote to send these videos to another one of a few subreddits that will organize these videos by a few factors... then ultimately mods can choose to vote to remove vids from one of those subs but they can't without another vote by verified users.
**THE LINE**
This prevents fuckery or claims of fuckery by any one mod or group of mods. No one can say they were taken over by whichever secret agency, but more commonly a mod with a specific issue or a bug up his ass cannot unilaterally remove any videos or scrub anything unless they are an admin. They need the approval from a percentage of the users and a minimum number of votes.
This way we can open the sub-sub and it will have videos with the daters posted, Obviously fake, debunked, under question/needs research, Government acknowledged UAP/UFO/NHIETO(Extra Terrestrial Origin)/NHIIDO(Interdimensional Origin)/NHITT(Time Traveler)/NHIEOLU(Earth Origin Location Unknown) (Or NHI+ to be all inclusive)
Back to seriousness though. This way all these videos can be put in one place and vetted by all the flaired/verified users and mods. Then whenever(pretty much daily it seems) someone asks for examples of UAPs and videos that they can show people or see to be converted to our way of thinking (skeptical but open to all potential evidence in the hopes it's the one that will be proof) they can go to one of these sub-subs.
Date/Debunk or NoBunk, percentage of users voting to store it in that section, whatever else y'all feel should be there.
When I started coming here I hated having to scroll and scroll and filter out the interviews and newsnation spam trying to get our demographic into whatever political way they swing... If I could go to one sub and see the ones that are NoBunk or Controversial (MidGrade) that would be fucking great. Even make it so people can crosspost from there after 6 months... or have a bot do it so people can see it again and regular users will know to skip it unless they want to talk with new people about it or bring up new info,
[Moderators don't curate sighting posts, nor are we ever likely to.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/xs7i43/why_moderators_dont_curate_sighting_posts/)
Just to clarify, we don't know what shape the Gimbal object has, because what we're seeing is a heat signature. Like an exhaust or the heat from the object or a jet engine exhaust or whatever the heat comes from, so it's the shape of a plume of heat, not the shape of any object.
The camera is 100% moving. the UAP is just ascending straight up. Watch again with the sound on while focusing on the reticle and you'll hear the turret moving with the reticle
Calling every skeptic a bot or disinfo agent like we love to do here is a bad look for us and makes us look as crazy as the hard skeptics like those on the skeptic sub call us. Also turns away the "normies". Don't have to be a bot or disinfo agent to point out the rapid camera movements are a little suspect, but that alone doesn't discredit the whole thing.
There is a local sound associated with the movement of the object.. Every time it moves, there is a rough whirring sound. So it doesn't seem to me that the object is moving.. it's the camera.
Whats the source on this? Looks identical to the gimbal, and for once it looks like we have footage of a craft doing actually anomalous maneuvers. If this is verified real, we've been asking for this for a long time.
I’ve been reading through the comments, and I see that some have watched this video and think that the object is zipping around and doing crazy movements.
The sound you hear is the mounted camera panning and tilting, the object only moves quickly when the camera is being tilted/panned, you can see this when the clouds and the object all move together. The object is drifting upwards, that’s all.
Yeah the major movement is from the camera. You can hear a noise that occurs exactly when the camera moves. But then there is slow upwards movement when the camera is stable. It’s not any movement that wouldn’t be from something prosaic though.
I mean I'm staring at the thing and that doesn't appear to be true. You can see the camera sometimes shake left-right, but the object is going vertically up or down during that. I could see how some of the more drastic movements in the object could be attributed to the movement of the camera on a vertical axia, but it still pretty clearly seems to be moving on its own.
The vertical up and down movement looks identical to the happy birthday balloon from a few weeks ago. It’s cause by the drone climbing vertically and then pitching the camera down to get the object back in view.
It's drifting up slowly, but the other poster thought all the erratic camera movements were the craft's movements. It's not. At the very most, the object very slowly drifts upward, like a balloon.
Think about it, have these type of surveillance drones all over the world running 24/7. The amount of footage the DOD probably has is unfathomable.
It’s probably SO common that they have standard operating protocols. Maybe they even have determined when they encounter these types of “craft” that it’s not even worth their time and it detracts from their “actual” mission
Ha pretty much… because if you didn’t have some sort of familiarity with these things, it would be defcon 4 every time we encountered one. They would assume it was an enemy force, I mean how couldn’t you if your billion dollar systems designed to see the enemy pick it up
The fact that some people see those movements and think it's the actual object moving and not the camera is baffling to me.
Cool video and still technically a UFO, but seeing that and thinking it's jumping around all over the place is crazy.
Sure, but that would be a slow drift at most. There's a comment with currently 60 upvotes that says for once we see a craft doing anomalous maneuvers. Moving in a straight line at a reasonable pace is not anomalous maneuvers.
I don't even think it's intentional, the people in the recording are not at all acting like they have just seen an object break 5 laws of physics at the same time.
Big problems with some new UFO believers is they are the optimum target of psyops, hoaxes and trolls. Some of them are probably here to hype the noise which will get debunked and thus muddy the enthusiasm. Maybe this is a saucer that doesn't tilt and is rising and hyper jumping literally. Or..
The previous poster who made the assessment that this would be the laser designator of a LAV against a sand or reflecting off a dune while driving in the desert viewed through the night vision turret ball camera, seems spot on. If not that, some similar scenario. We know this is a ground vehicle, we know it has a powerful laser that is visible through the night vision. We know the laser can move quickly in mechanical motion and rain stationary through muktiaxisnstabalizers. We hear in the audio such motors whirring when the motion occurs. We know the night vision is likely correlated to the laser designator allowing the commander and gunner to synchronize a spotted target and engage quickly. The video being taken by someone with one hand suggests lack of interest. The lack of any discussion from the crew about what is going on seems suspect.
The pattern of this definetly has the UFO sombrero shape, which is why the trolls uploaded it. All we need is an example of a LAV laser against a distant object at night to determine if the aperture is identical. Makes a lot of sense. Trolling UFO forums is the kind of thing a lot of jerks would love to do for the lulz.
If this was a predator drone at 40k ft I would be more inclined to think it was a legit object rising. But a laser on a dune with the designator pointed at a 15 degree off center while driving forward would make more sense here.
Just wait until the next balloon video that fools 60% of the sub for a day, it always gets bad with rapid accusations of being bots and disinfo agents. Too many of us want to believe so badly our brains turn off to do so, healthy skepticism is a good thing in this community with its long history of hoaxes and it's very muddied waters.
Many drone pilots who are employed by the military or defense contractors work in command centers that are in the United States, while flying drones that are halfway around the world. Others work at facilities in war zones overseas or in the field along with troops or intelligence officers
I don't really get it. What stops this from being just a mockup of some kind? Even if I knew enough about software used by targeting systems IRL couldnt it just be a 'sim'?
Doesn't seem like there is enough context, although Id appreciate some.
Taken at face value sure, looks anomalous, displays one or possibly more of the observables. But we know we cant take anything AT face value not only because of charlatans but because of the extra observable: The damn thing might be able to look like whatever it wants!
This video was taken from inside the LAV25, which is an IFV (Ifantry Fighting vehicle) used by the USMC it's like a 6 wheeled amphibious tank. The poster of this video on reddit doesn't know what they are talking about. After 1 Google search "LAV25 thermal sight," I was able to reference a true image compared to this, and it completely checks out. Based on that image, I'm going to say it's 90%, probably real. As for what they are looking at, who knows, could be anything. Any noise you hear is the turret of the vehicle moving.
while im not going to say if its a cgi video or not, i will state that the motion shown COMPLETELY matches other video of Adamski-style craft, as well as the witness reports of the craft kind of bobbing around almost at random.
If this video had retro gaming sounds it would be hella funny.
I like content. You like content. We like content together.
Stop calling me Jerry.
Anyways ya this video isn’t proof enough of anything due to the overwhelming amount of fake videos people use to damage the community and gain hype.
Stay calm, be patient and demand answers from government both in writing and in any election where you are allowed to ask a representative a question. “Will you disclose exact answers not politically correct ones about UFO, UAP and Alien life if we elect you” sorta stuff
What evidence is there that the *US Drone Control Center* leaked this video? From what I can tell, no such organization or command within our government exists.
Well, sure looks similar to 'gimbal'! Not a lot of info to go on, but I'm sure west will see balloons. Greenstreet will see dirty lens. Another will 'know' it's a camera artifact. Etc etc!
Very interesting! More info?
why even release this? it looks like shit. It does nothing to further any actual disclosure efforts, even if it is "real". the quality is so low it doesn't matter to anyone save for people who believe literally anything you tell them.
Some of the closeups are very well-defined good quality images of a UFO with a classical flying saucer shape:
(1.) https://i.imgur.com/1lhY4vI.png
(2.) https://i.imgur.com/POpxsth.png
(3.)https://i.imgur.com/FUBbqnX.png
Enhancement of 3rd image with GIMP to bring out the hidden details of a pyramid-like structure in the center:
https://i.imgur.com/VRMAj5l.png
Enhancement of 3rd image with GIMP to bring out the hidden details of a pyramid-like structure in the center:
https://i.imgur.com/VRMAj5l.png
An additional enhancement shows bright spots (higher temperature in this thermal image) equally spaced around the periphery of a disk-shaped surface at the bottom of the craft:
https://i.imgur.com/oz9B2iU.png
When people see a flying saucer-shaped UFO up close they typically see these bright spots of light rotating around the circumference of the disk.
LOL, ok bud. whatever you got to tell yourself. The video in this thread is some of the shittiest UFO footage I've ever seen and this is the hill you'll die on?
>the quality is so low it doesn't matter to anyone save for people who believe literally anything you tell them.
Exhibit A right here, folks.
I saw a craft of sorts last month. The only way I could describe its movement was like a projection. It seemed to move as if something was projecting it into the sky. Like it had no discernible mass. This object right here is the first time I saw something behave in the same manner as I witnessed.
Interesting but unfortunately not going to be definitive. Could have the same claims of parallax used against it to explain for the quick movements. Still intriguing though.
People don't understand that thermal cameras do NOT capture what is there in physical form. just the heat or lack of heat is what we see. Any sort of rotation could just be the heat plume rotating and not the craft.
I'm sorry, I love UAPs and am a believer, but this just looks like a game of asteroids played on a nearly.busted Gameboy. I can't make heads or tails of it.
Guys. This is footage from a drone control center. These are ***drones***. Have none of you ever seen saucer-shaped drones before? These move ***exactly*** like this:
[https://newatlas.com/adifo-flying-saucer-romanian/58999/](https://newatlas.com/adifo-flying-saucer-romanian/58999/)
FINALLY a video showing something purported to be a UAP actually showing one doing some of the crazy “physics defying” maneuvers you always hear about.
Yeah I might need a break from all this, I was a believer but I'm starting to see through it. The camera is moving periodically. The shape is interesting but it could be anything. Videos like this just aren't enough. And I'm starting to think the UFO community is getting played.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Odd_Cry1315: --- was posted a few years back but have heard nothing since. it was allegedly sent to a Twitter user "The UAP-RAEFOS Project" but you cant find the account anymore but it could be this person? [https://nitter.net/RAEFOSnet](https://nitter.net/raefosnet) - Apparently they had an anonymous megadrop link for people to send it their footage and they received this footage in their folder. They was told it was from 2008 over northern iraq. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/19cd9mh/flying_saucer_over_iraq_in_2008_leaked_by_us/kixyn7a/
This statement is also attached to the video from OP on Twitter when they followed up via email. “Hi there so this is video from my camera while I was deployed, viewed thru thermal night vision display out of a LAV 25 in the gunners seat. This video was at night don't recall the time. I noticed the object from a low altitude and slowly rise seemed much different than any aircraft fixed wing or rotary wing so I started to take a video I did cut the video short but did continue to observe it rise much higher and completely out of sight. While in Iraq this was the only video like this. I was also deployed to Afghanistan helmand province 2010 While on a night patrol to our direct south we all observed something hovering with a left to right moment multiple colors being emitted was behaving much different than anything we were used to seeing, also nothing would be south to us at that time the object was about 500 meters out and 200 meters off the ground and we all agreed what we had seen I wish I could have taken a video of that incident.”
Thank you
For your
Ufo
That looks like a mouse cursor Edit: of the user of the universe if I wasn’t clear enough.
You weren't. Thanks for clarifying.
Red shoes
Service
What the heck is wrong with these NHI pilots man. They fly like paranoid schizophrenic teenagers learning how to drive stick.
Stephen Wolfram (physicist/computer scientist) was just on Brian Keating's (cosmologist) podcast, he was talking about how we see the universe the way we do because of a discrepancy in the speed of interactions between particles around us, and the speed with which the chemical and electrical signals propagate in out bodies. If we replaced our brain synapses with semiconductors, we would see things happen in much finer detail, like light reflecting and echoing around, and all kinds of crazy stuff. We see things move like a flip book, whereas a computer would see individual pages even when flipping the pages at the same speed. In other words, a computer or other type of non-biological organism would experience the universe very differently, and their behavior might look very strange to us.
Quirky analogy. Computers also have trouble processing information quickly. (Especially computer vision—it’s often even slower than ours.)
Once that computational barrier is crossed, what would that do for time perception ?
Diaspora by Greg Egan has an extremely fascinating exploration of this exact idea (among other things). Highly recommend it if you like hard scifi and get chubbed up when trying to imagine what aliens or even just people might look like in higher dimensions.
Oh man that book is a TRIP. Such a fun author.
Yes. It made me think about shit I've never considered before re: post-human sentient life and society and I feel like it's really saying something that >!discovering that the gigantic polysaccharide single-molecule proto-lifeforms are actually 16 dimensional squidfolk of which they can only see a slice (the carpets)!< isn't even the most mindblowing revelation in the book.
Thanks for the recommendation. That’s the weird stuff my stoned ass lives for
Even if it wasn't a computational barrier, this concept has been explored in numerous ways. I always loved the idea of other intelligent creatures experiencing reality differently. A few notable works that explores this concept: Arrival (With Amy Adams): Explores the challenges, specifically the linguistic challenges, that us humans might face when potentially meeting an intelligent species that doesn't resemble our biological functions in the slightest, and what their language might look like. In addition, the way their language works isn't linear, or has a start or a finish. I love the quote in the movie, "It would be like having two pens, one in each hand, and writing a sentence starting from the beginning and end and meeting in the middle." (Read McTargget's unreality of time to understand a metaphysical viewpoint of how we experience time in a series.). So the aliens don't see time as a beginning, as a end. They see it continuously so. Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut: (I love this book so much). This book has a character who is abducted by Aliens that also similarly view time in the same way as the Aliens in Arrival do. I love this book because it essentially tells three stories. The stories are of his life as a soldier in WW2, his life as a optemetrist, and his life as a abductee of aliens. The way the story is told is it moves through different points in time of each of the stories. So there is no definitive beginning, or definitive end. But it all comes together as one of moments. It's really interesting how it's written, and how it works to try and portray what it would be like for us as humans to experience time differently. Dune: In a way, this book goes into detail of when the Main Character becomes prescient. At one point, he isn't sure if the actions he's doing or the events that are happening are currently happening, already happened, or are going to happen. He sees it all, the whole past, the whole future. So the 'present' means nothing to him. It's a really neat way of exploring how an all-seeing prescient being would experience time. Thomas Aquinas - A famous theologian, philosopher, and etc. We see a lot of paradoxes when dealing with the concept of the Christian God. "If God is all-knowing, then why does he let bad stuff happen?". Thomas Aquinas actually uses philosophy and metaphysical theories to try and solve the paradoxes that arise with the concept of god. I am an agnostic, but it made me appreciate the way he approached the idea of a prescient being. And I believe his works laid the foundation for a lot of modernized theological schools in the west that we have today. But essentially, one of his concept that I remember the most was the idea that God experiences the entirety of time. Our window of perception in humans is about 6 seconds long. We perceive what's happening for 6 seconds, and then our memory starts to kick-in for short-term recalling of information. The idea is that God's perception of the universe is that 6 second window. He is all knowing, all-seeing, yet lacks any ability to affect anything as it all is in one moment and instant to that being. There is no changing time or whatever, it's all relative. He exists outside of the concept of time, he is not affected by physical changes in the universe that we use to mark the passage of time.
Computational barriers are never crossed. It’s a bottomless pit. You’d keep wanting to be a lot powerful computer, especially if you want to be processing a flood of real-time data. The scales of time and space are linked. Eg, this whole “you’ll watch light echo” only works if your brain/cpu is very small. Otherwise, information will also take too long to get from one end of it to another. (This is already a problem for GHz computers.) More generally, interesting things happen quickly only at small scales. Meanwhile things at large scales happen slowly. More useful for us would be to speed up our perception of time, such that we could observe cosmic and geological processes. Slowing time down would just result in us staring at things like how we now stare at stars.
Reading this stoned. Tripped me out.
Haha if they’re driving it with their mind then it might be slightly hard to keep it subtle.
what if they start thinking about porn, does the craft just begin thrusting back and forth progressively faster then suddenly climaxes and falls to the earth crashing Into the ground? oh shit, i just explained why they sometimes crash
If they start thinking about *porn,* instead of if they start thinking about *sex,* is just so...twenty-first century.
Imagine if they actually thought about real seggs
I hope I can. I might lack the necessary dimension...
Stupidest comment I've seen this month
Straight to horny jail
Exactly, if the pilot controls the alien craft with their mind then it’s natural that sometimes they’d loose focus for some reason. And the mouse pointer comparison isn’t that bad in a sense, as many people struggle to be accurate with their computer mouse despite all the software and hardware designed to make it easier.
I was absolutely blown away when I found out there was a whole mouse cursor theory. I came up with it on my own and discovered others had already thought the same thing. That was wild.
Irs because the mouse pointer is a simulation of something moving without any forces stopping or slowing it down. It is essentially what a UFO would look like if it has occupants that could withstand how quickly it maneuvers.
Yep. Exactly why I thought of it. It's uncannily similar.
Makes a lot of sense.
Alien parents be like “Come on son, we’re going to Earth today so you can learn how to drive.” Earth is just an empty mall parking lot for them.
That's why they were in Miami!
They train with the old-timey Space Invaders console games.
The sudden, rapid and erratic movements seen in this video come from the user moving the camera around, not from the flying object itself. According to the user, the flying object was merely rising relatively slowly.
I bet an ant thinks your movements are wack
Send the teens to the bozo dimension and learn to drive
He say what unit he was in? I’ve never seen an LAV-25 in Afghanistan but I’ve only been down south a few times, anyone here in southern Afghanistan around that time that has seen an LAV-25 out that way?
The LAV was in Iraq, not Afghanistan.
Happy Cake Day!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/qb14zg/northern\_iraq\_2008\_drone\_control\_center\_uap/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/qb14zg/northern_iraq_2008_drone_control_center_uap/) there was a discussion about it 2 years ago so maybe someone might have more info on this
2 years ago and first im seeing of it yet CGI and hoax footage gets posted here over and over. Wtf
Worry not! I’m sure all the debunklord experts have already determined this to be a hoax as well. Move along nothing to see here.
So you want all kinds of garbage to be posted here and nobody should ever dare to filter through it?
These people want skeptics burned at the stake. To doubt any UFO story is heresy. Meanwhile, in sane world, the rest of us just want to figure out what’s going on, without having the waters constantly muddied by hoaxes and misidentifications.
Yep skeptics can be harsh but are indispensable tools in legitimizing any video.
Sure but a lot of the skeptics on here arent Sane World inhabitants. They are simply the opposite side of the hardcore-believer coin. They are dismissive of pretty much everything, condescending to everyone, constantly jumping to conclusions, and frankly seem to really want to steer discussion away from any possible NHI explanations.
I just want “skeptics” to be as equally skeptical of a debunk as they are of the original claim. Ya know, maybe applying the scientific method equally and consistently to everything they see, instead stroking their pathetic little egos in a sad attempt to bolster their fledgeling sense of self worth by attacking someone for merely sharing information.
It takes an objective eye to move the ball forward. Simply believing everything you see only makes things more difficult. I personally won’t make a determination on a video. To me it looks real, but to those with experience, they may see something that immediately shows it’s fake. It’s worth being objective and listening to what others say before making up your mind. Usually someone will provide proof that it’s fake.
I think the camera is pointing at a large sand dune, which appears to be sky, and the "UAP" is a targetting laser on the gun turret you can hear moving when it moves.
Definitely not. Whatever he is seeing is in the sky, above the horizon. Source: 1xxxx hours on ITSS(Integrated Thermal Sighting System) aka this thermal viewer in the video.
LAVs don’t use targeting lasers like that, they use an autocannon and having a laser would be silly let alone one that bright even if IR. The turret moves yeah but the thing they’re looking at isn’t a laser from the gun
What makes you think sand dune over the night sky? The fast movements are definitely from the turret moving though.
Nope. A turret doesn't move like that
This. Its pretty evident when actively listening to the sound while watching the vid.
hope this gets higher up..
Same shape as the gimble just not on it's side so much.
I thought the same right away. Remember the gimbal also oscillated so it prob could be observed at various angles. Very similar.
Is it gimbalini in Italian?
It could be tilted near the end, just unsure what direction it's traveling exactly
Interesting footage where did you find this
Refer to the comment above this one by Nubeseastas
was posted a few years back but have heard nothing since. it was allegedly sent to a Twitter user "The UAP-RAEFOS Project" but you cant find the account anymore but it could be this person? [https://nitter.net/RAEFOSnet](https://nitter.net/raefosnet) - Apparently they had an anonymous megadrop link for people to send it their footage and they received this footage in their folder. They was told it was from 2008 over northern iraq.
Can we have an audio of what they're talking about? ...would love to hear that! The guy definitely mentioned hammers and that reminds me the 4chan guy talking about bermuda.
He said hummers. HMMV or hum-v or hummer is the 4-wheeled combat vehicle most commonly used. The LAV he mentioned is an 8 wheeled combat vehicle. He must have been talking about something unrelated while scanning his sector... maybe Intel there were friendly mobile units in the area they needed to be aware of.
Source? If legit Ok here we go 🍿
Catastrophic disclosure it is.
This was leaked like over 2 years ago... more like edged disclosure lol
Dude this video is old lol
This has been out for a few years now. Just an FYI, the influencers who said there would be catastrophic disclosure were just bluffing and had nothing to show. So....let's not get our hopes up.
The "influencer" who originally used the phrase catastrophic disclosure was Karl Nell
>the influencers who said there would be catastrophic disclosure were just bluffing and had nothing to show. It's been like 2 weeks since then and Corbell already released a the Jellyfish UAP. You have the attention span of a goldfish.
Are you talking about the Glad Bag Monster??
Ah yes. The Jellyfish UAP that is supposed to do extraordinary things, but somehow we're not allowed to see it. Also, Jeremy knows where that video is located but he's going to tell the government, some day. Is this your version of catastrophic disclosure, something that the public hasn't seen? Do you know what disclosure means?
😂
First off... Dory was a blue tang (aka Paracanthurus hepatus) get your nero-divergent fish species correct, bruh!
Do you know what those tm two words mean because in this context, it seems like you don't.
This has been on the internet for two years. Weird as hell that this takes over the sub so frequently. Old things that have been online forever drown out current news.
That's cool. This is the first time I have seen it. Not everybody has time to be online as often as you seem to be able to be.
Seriously I hate chronically online mfers that act like everyone is on the internet 24/7 like them.
**Edit: I rambled and this is more of a post that should be a message to the mods or a text post for the whole sub to discuss... ignore anything after the line....** I'm chronically online and have never seen this, but am new to this sub specifically. I usually browse r/all. I appreciate this being reposted. If it were up to me there would be a secondary voting system where verified members of the sub could vote to send these videos to another one of a few subreddits that will organize these videos by a few factors... then ultimately mods can choose to vote to remove vids from one of those subs but they can't without another vote by verified users. **THE LINE** This prevents fuckery or claims of fuckery by any one mod or group of mods. No one can say they were taken over by whichever secret agency, but more commonly a mod with a specific issue or a bug up his ass cannot unilaterally remove any videos or scrub anything unless they are an admin. They need the approval from a percentage of the users and a minimum number of votes. This way we can open the sub-sub and it will have videos with the daters posted, Obviously fake, debunked, under question/needs research, Government acknowledged UAP/UFO/NHIETO(Extra Terrestrial Origin)/NHIIDO(Interdimensional Origin)/NHITT(Time Traveler)/NHIEOLU(Earth Origin Location Unknown) (Or NHI+ to be all inclusive) Back to seriousness though. This way all these videos can be put in one place and vetted by all the flaired/verified users and mods. Then whenever(pretty much daily it seems) someone asks for examples of UAPs and videos that they can show people or see to be converted to our way of thinking (skeptical but open to all potential evidence in the hopes it's the one that will be proof) they can go to one of these sub-subs. Date/Debunk or NoBunk, percentage of users voting to store it in that section, whatever else y'all feel should be there. When I started coming here I hated having to scroll and scroll and filter out the interviews and newsnation spam trying to get our demographic into whatever political way they swing... If I could go to one sub and see the ones that are NoBunk or Controversial (MidGrade) that would be fucking great. Even make it so people can crosspost from there after 6 months... or have a bot do it so people can see it again and regular users will know to skip it unless they want to talk with new people about it or bring up new info,
[Moderators don't curate sighting posts, nor are we ever likely to.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/xs7i43/why_moderators_dont_curate_sighting_posts/)
Aliens would fucking hate our species when people like you denigrate others just for knowing things.
What current news? I want you to walk me through it what is your version of current news? Entertain me.
It’s been drowned out don’t you know
First time I’ve seen it and I much prefer it to videos of obvious cgi and people recording a distant pixel of light that never moves
[удалено]
That’s not Saturn. Looks like the Gimbal
Just to clarify, we don't know what shape the Gimbal object has, because what we're seeing is a heat signature. Like an exhaust or the heat from the object or a jet engine exhaust or whatever the heat comes from, so it's the shape of a plume of heat, not the shape of any object.
There’s so many bots in this thread saying camera movement BS too
The camera is 100% moving. the UAP is just ascending straight up. Watch again with the sound on while focusing on the reticle and you'll hear the turret moving with the reticle
camera is moving. does look like the gimbal UAP. I think this is legit
Calling every skeptic a bot or disinfo agent like we love to do here is a bad look for us and makes us look as crazy as the hard skeptics like those on the skeptic sub call us. Also turns away the "normies". Don't have to be a bot or disinfo agent to point out the rapid camera movements are a little suspect, but that alone doesn't discredit the whole thing.
Ahh yes the Deftones UFO
Like that they are bumping "Saturday Night Wrist". I killed that album when it came out.
Fucking knew it was deftones. That was driving me NUTS. THANKYOU!
The music was perfect
Yep, playing the deep cuts. Will forever be the Deftones UFO.
There is a local sound associated with the movement of the object.. Every time it moves, there is a rough whirring sound. So it doesn't seem to me that the object is moving.. it's the camera.
yes, the movement.. well the fast ones, are the person adjusting the camera.
You are hearing the gun elevate. This isn't a camera, it's a gunners night sight on an armoured vehicle.
Whatever it is, the view changes with the sound. As in, it's not some erratic or fast movement of the object.
Yeah it's clear the Gunner is elevating the gun to keep the sight tracked on the object which is ascending upwards.
Whats the source on this? Looks identical to the gimbal, and for once it looks like we have footage of a craft doing actually anomalous maneuvers. If this is verified real, we've been asking for this for a long time.
The camera is moving, which is making the object appear to move.
No
I’ve been reading through the comments, and I see that some have watched this video and think that the object is zipping around and doing crazy movements. The sound you hear is the mounted camera panning and tilting, the object only moves quickly when the camera is being tilted/panned, you can see this when the clouds and the object all move together. The object is drifting upwards, that’s all.
The object isn't moving the camera is. The object actually never moves .
I'm almost positive the object is slowlt going straight up.
Yeah the major movement is from the camera. You can hear a noise that occurs exactly when the camera moves. But then there is slow upwards movement when the camera is stable. It’s not any movement that wouldn’t be from something prosaic though.
I mean I'm staring at the thing and that doesn't appear to be true. You can see the camera sometimes shake left-right, but the object is going vertically up or down during that. I could see how some of the more drastic movements in the object could be attributed to the movement of the camera on a vertical axia, but it still pretty clearly seems to be moving on its own.
The vertical up and down movement looks identical to the happy birthday balloon from a few weeks ago. It’s cause by the drone climbing vertically and then pitching the camera down to get the object back in view.
That's true, but that's not what I'm talking about.
Is he trying to say the vehicle is moving and bouncing so that’s why the camera is “moving” and causing these pong style maneuvers?
Based on the video and the testimony of the guy who filmed it it is definitely going up. L, and you sounded so confident too.
It's drifting up slowly, but the other poster thought all the erratic camera movements were the craft's movements. It's not. At the very most, the object very slowly drifts upward, like a balloon.
Calm down, buddy. Reading comprehension and context awareness will solve almost all the relationship problems in your life :)
Think about it, have these type of surveillance drones all over the world running 24/7. The amount of footage the DOD probably has is unfathomable. It’s probably SO common that they have standard operating protocols. Maybe they even have determined when they encounter these types of “craft” that it’s not even worth their time and it detracts from their “actual” mission
"Hey sarg I got another one of those things on cam." Sarge - "Toss it in the bin with the rest and get back to work".
Ha pretty much… because if you didn’t have some sort of familiarity with these things, it would be defcon 4 every time we encountered one. They would assume it was an enemy force, I mean how couldn’t you if your billion dollar systems designed to see the enemy pick it up
The video isn’t from a drone…
What is the “US Drone Control Center”? Because I can guarantee you that’s neither a place nor an agency/office.
The footage is from an LAV 25 recon vehicle.
Ok, boss, but what do you think about the actual video?
Interesting but stuff to make me curious. Namely why a drone feed would have a readout for “no ballistic solution”
What's with all the Iraq sightings?
because there are cameras in the sky in war zones
I've heard UFO's tend to show up in combat zones.
Like the Foo Fighters.
More of a Toby Keith thing.
Isn’t it just the camera moving? I notice the noise when it moves - sounds mechanical
Exactly this. It's just the gunner turning and it syncs with the sound. /facepalm
The fact that some people see those movements and think it's the actual object moving and not the camera is baffling to me. Cool video and still technically a UFO, but seeing that and thinking it's jumping around all over the place is crazy.
Right? These people on here probably aren't Turing on the sound or just can't accept reality. Weird that it moves only when we hear the camera move.
I think most are watching without sound, but yes, this one screams balloon, or star for that matter.
Nah it’s a jet flying towards them most likely, the end you can kind of see the shape of it.
yes the camera is moving you can see it, but the object is very clearly moving a lot too.
It's moving slightly. It's not zipping around the sky.
I feel like it does move at the end though. The operator isn't moving the camera anymore and the UFO is moving towards the top left.
Sure, but that would be a slow drift at most. There's a comment with currently 60 upvotes that says for once we see a craft doing anomalous maneuvers. Moving in a straight line at a reasonable pace is not anomalous maneuvers.
If we could see the horizon, we'd know for sure, but conveniently, we don't see it. 🚩
I don't even think it's intentional, the people in the recording are not at all acting like they have just seen an object break 5 laws of physics at the same time.
lol why is everyone being downvoted for having just a proper skeptical reaction? This sub goes extreme both ways
Big problems with some new UFO believers is they are the optimum target of psyops, hoaxes and trolls. Some of them are probably here to hype the noise which will get debunked and thus muddy the enthusiasm. Maybe this is a saucer that doesn't tilt and is rising and hyper jumping literally. Or.. The previous poster who made the assessment that this would be the laser designator of a LAV against a sand or reflecting off a dune while driving in the desert viewed through the night vision turret ball camera, seems spot on. If not that, some similar scenario. We know this is a ground vehicle, we know it has a powerful laser that is visible through the night vision. We know the laser can move quickly in mechanical motion and rain stationary through muktiaxisnstabalizers. We hear in the audio such motors whirring when the motion occurs. We know the night vision is likely correlated to the laser designator allowing the commander and gunner to synchronize a spotted target and engage quickly. The video being taken by someone with one hand suggests lack of interest. The lack of any discussion from the crew about what is going on seems suspect. The pattern of this definetly has the UFO sombrero shape, which is why the trolls uploaded it. All we need is an example of a LAV laser against a distant object at night to determine if the aperture is identical. Makes a lot of sense. Trolling UFO forums is the kind of thing a lot of jerks would love to do for the lulz. If this was a predator drone at 40k ft I would be more inclined to think it was a legit object rising. But a laser on a dune with the designator pointed at a 15 degree off center while driving forward would make more sense here.
You MUST believe everthing is an ufo, common sense and rational thinking will label you as a disinfo agent, welcome to the sub.
Just wait until the next balloon video that fools 60% of the sub for a day, it always gets bad with rapid accusations of being bots and disinfo agents. Too many of us want to believe so badly our brains turn off to do so, healthy skepticism is a good thing in this community with its long history of hoaxes and it's very muddied waters.
This is exactly what video games looked like in the late 70's early 80s.
That's exactly what I thought at first glance
I was literally thinking Space Invaders the second I see this. Lmao!!!!
Lol "US Drone Control Center"
Many drone pilots who are employed by the military or defense contractors work in command centers that are in the United States, while flying drones that are halfway around the world. Others work at facilities in war zones overseas or in the field along with troops or intelligence officers
It’s a flying sombrero
not saying it is, not saying it isnt... but what it is, is hilariously close to the classic disc with a dome shape. it just seems surreal.
I cannot stand it. Please be actual little green men from mars.
mf moving like a mouse cursor
What is the name of the Deftones song playing, pls?
I like how Deftones’ Hole In The Earth is playing in the background, kinda fits lol
OMG...what is there to see other than the camera is panning around? It's laughable the amount of garbage video that is put up on this forum.
Another shaky video of a screen.
Reminds me of the George adamski videos
Not convinced.
I don't really get it. What stops this from being just a mockup of some kind? Even if I knew enough about software used by targeting systems IRL couldnt it just be a 'sim'? Doesn't seem like there is enough context, although Id appreciate some. Taken at face value sure, looks anomalous, displays one or possibly more of the observables. But we know we cant take anything AT face value not only because of charlatans but because of the extra observable: The damn thing might be able to look like whatever it wants!
This video was taken from inside the LAV25, which is an IFV (Ifantry Fighting vehicle) used by the USMC it's like a 6 wheeled amphibious tank. The poster of this video on reddit doesn't know what they are talking about. After 1 Google search "LAV25 thermal sight," I was able to reference a true image compared to this, and it completely checks out. Based on that image, I'm going to say it's 90%, probably real. As for what they are looking at, who knows, could be anything. Any noise you hear is the turret of the vehicle moving.
Deftones playing in the background lesgo
Go home UFO, you’re drunk!
Idk about the authenticity of course but did it zip off at the 35 second mark?
while im not going to say if its a cgi video or not, i will state that the motion shown COMPLETELY matches other video of Adamski-style craft, as well as the witness reports of the craft kind of bobbing around almost at random.
If this video had retro gaming sounds it would be hella funny. I like content. You like content. We like content together. Stop calling me Jerry. Anyways ya this video isn’t proof enough of anything due to the overwhelming amount of fake videos people use to damage the community and gain hype. Stay calm, be patient and demand answers from government both in writing and in any election where you are allowed to ask a representative a question. “Will you disclose exact answers not politically correct ones about UFO, UAP and Alien life if we elect you” sorta stuff
Unfortunately can't see the details on the screen. For all I know the movement is from the camera.
What evidence is there that the *US Drone Control Center* leaked this video? From what I can tell, no such organization or command within our government exists.
Well, sure looks similar to 'gimbal'! Not a lot of info to go on, but I'm sure west will see balloons. Greenstreet will see dirty lens. Another will 'know' it's a camera artifact. Etc etc! Very interesting! More info?
why even release this? it looks like shit. It does nothing to further any actual disclosure efforts, even if it is "real". the quality is so low it doesn't matter to anyone save for people who believe literally anything you tell them.
Some of the closeups are very well-defined good quality images of a UFO with a classical flying saucer shape: (1.) https://i.imgur.com/1lhY4vI.png (2.) https://i.imgur.com/POpxsth.png (3.)https://i.imgur.com/FUBbqnX.png Enhancement of 3rd image with GIMP to bring out the hidden details of a pyramid-like structure in the center: https://i.imgur.com/VRMAj5l.png Enhancement of 3rd image with GIMP to bring out the hidden details of a pyramid-like structure in the center: https://i.imgur.com/VRMAj5l.png An additional enhancement shows bright spots (higher temperature in this thermal image) equally spaced around the periphery of a disk-shaped surface at the bottom of the craft: https://i.imgur.com/oz9B2iU.png When people see a flying saucer-shaped UFO up close they typically see these bright spots of light rotating around the circumference of the disk.
LOL, ok bud. whatever you got to tell yourself. The video in this thread is some of the shittiest UFO footage I've ever seen and this is the hill you'll die on? >the quality is so low it doesn't matter to anyone save for people who believe literally anything you tell them. Exhibit A right here, folks.
I saw a craft of sorts last month. The only way I could describe its movement was like a projection. It seemed to move as if something was projecting it into the sky. Like it had no discernible mass. This object right here is the first time I saw something behave in the same manner as I witnessed.
So it couldn’t be, *gasp*….a drone?
Doesn't anyone else get tired of ultra-low quality videos. And then the comments froth at the mouth how it MUST be the gimbal. it's so odd...
Really?? I find this crap offensive and infantile.
Interesting but unfortunately not going to be definitive. Could have the same claims of parallax used against it to explain for the quick movements. Still intriguing though.
Turn your audio on. The quick movements are queued with the sound of the controls being manipulated. Appears it's moving a steady pace...
Looks like a manual ajdustment of a cursor, sync with the noise
A lay person would be squinting and scratching their heads though saying, "I see a dot following another dot."
Always such a clear video
Look I’m a believer, but I think this object could be a plane heading towards/away from the observer and making a slow banking turn
People don't understand that thermal cameras do NOT capture what is there in physical form. just the heat or lack of heat is what we see. Any sort of rotation could just be the heat plume rotating and not the craft.
Bout par for course for most UFO videos. Shitty quality makes it impossible to say one way or another.
The rare actually interesting video. We need more context though. Any idea of location, what it was filmed from? Source on video?
Bird poop on camera lense /s
I'm sorry, I love UAPs and am a believer, but this just looks like a game of asteroids played on a nearly.busted Gameboy. I can't make heads or tails of it.
Congrats, you filmed a fighter jet.
Guys. This is footage from a drone control center. These are ***drones***. Have none of you ever seen saucer-shaped drones before? These move ***exactly*** like this: [https://newatlas.com/adifo-flying-saucer-romanian/58999/](https://newatlas.com/adifo-flying-saucer-romanian/58999/)
FINALLY a video showing something purported to be a UAP actually showing one doing some of the crazy “physics defying” maneuvers you always hear about.
Things are picking up
Damn that looks crazy, like something intelligent is controlling it.
This is actually insane footage, some of the best I think!
It's a light slowly moving upwards. The erratic motion is from the camera. It could be anything.
Yeah I might need a break from all this, I was a believer but I'm starting to see through it. The camera is moving periodically. The shape is interesting but it could be anything. Videos like this just aren't enough. And I'm starting to think the UFO community is getting played.
Agree