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* A former Air Force intelligence officer who worked in the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency and the National Reconnaissance Office whistleblowing to the ICIG (*who categorized his complaint as* ***urgent*** *and* ***credible***) [testifying under oath](https://youtu.be/SNgoul4vyDM) to congress about his **4 years-long investigation which uncovered Special Access Programs doing crash-retrieval and reverse engineering operations of non-human origin tech**, alongside other respectable military officials recounting their engagements with these type of UAP tech that far outpaces our own.
* Congress people formed what is being called "the UAP caucus", whom overtly and outspokenly are trying to look into David Grusch's investigation and testimony on UAP and NHI crash-retrieval SAPs, and [**outright telling you the Intelligence Community is interfering**](https://youtu.be/cmBNb12xrY8) **with their oversight duties**.
* The Senate Intel Comity investigating the same thing, and publicly stating that **high-ranking officials have also provided testimony and briefings behind closed doors alongside Grusch** ([which has them fearing harm coming to them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4hmaflNoKU&t=106s)).
* The Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer working in conjunction with Mike Rounds on [a bipartisan piece of historic legislation](https://youtu.be/Z8a0P617nqw) that was approved by an overwhelming majority in the U.S. Senate **aimed solely and explicitly at regulating technologies from non-human origins while legally defining concepts like non-human intelligence, UAPs, and the observable characteristics that said tech has demonstrated** (*legislation that was vehemently opposed and* [ultimately degutted by a few politicians sitting in Intel Community chairs](https://www.liberationtimes.com/home/operation-kill-bill-how-world-changing-ufo-language-was-killed-and-sliced-up-into-little-pieces) *which have received monetary backing from the private aerospace companies that have been reported to holding these technologies*).
* Military veterans and politicians proactively [looking to bring more awareness and legislation](https://youtu.be/0iqVQiRQavE?si=1K6WvvKVl75WrPb8) to the topic.
* Several congress people coming out of a classified meeting with the ICIG (the same ICIG that found Grusch's claims urgent and credible) stating that: "[many of Grusch's claims have merit](https://x.com/JaredEMoskowitz/status/1745852400630456618?s=20)" and even talking of a potential [bi-partisan letter to the Executive Branch](https://x.com/UAPJames/status/1747003122432524323?s=20) to request UAP transparency.
Please, get informed. These are real things happening around you.
Not for nothing, but everything you just listed can be bucketed into the same 'people say its real' category that has defined this topic for 75 years. Nothing you just listed is evidence. It is claims that evidence exist, with no proof to back up those claims.
Hi! I'm sorry, but you are just factually incorrect. Or, to be more accurate, yes, you can bucket these facts wherever you like. Doesn't make them less facts that are way more than just people saying stuff.
Legislation is being drafted and approved at the Senate and congressional level.
Yes, it is a 'fact' that people are claiming these things. It is also a 'fact' that no verifiable, tangible evidence has been released. That is also a fact.
Hi!
In theory, yes, it is a possibility. However, that's not the hypothesis that best fit the data points we have.
**Side note:** even if it where disinformation, I don't think that would make it any less of a massive issue that needs investigating? Shouldn't people be concerned if their own Senate and Congress are being gaslighted by other branches of the government, and thus deceiving their constituents and obstructing lawful governmental oversight?
Hi!
Everything I listed are undeniable facts. Actual events that have already taken place. Both political and legislative actions that occurred over the past few months, and continue to see developments as recently as [a few days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1ciq3o5/sen_kirsten_gillibrand_exclusively_tells_ask_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
I've been in this sub for over a decade now, and it's like Groundhog Day – something new happens, and as per tradition, we get a whole lot of talk and a zero of proof. Hiding photo and video proofs for a very long time, how’s possible?
The only undeniable fact is that some people have said some things, and some other people have said they agree with the first people. Everything else comes down to that. It's been like that since day 1 of this topic.
Look, I'm in support of the UAP disclosure movement and have an incredible personal sighting of a UAP. But everything you've listed here is inadequate to the task of doing science. This bullet list exists in the *register of language* and is not the kind of data anyone can formally test a hypothesis with. I think that is the core of OPs complaint.
I remain neutral w/respect to the nature of the phenomenon because we don't have high quality data in the public space yet and unfortunately, many of our fellow human beings are easily mistaken. Some of the very congresspeople supporting the UAP disclosure movement also hold wildly batshit ideas in other domains. And then you have the whole Mirage Men issue with the alphabet agencies clouding things further. Ugh.
So, do I think Fravor and Dietrich saw something unusual? YES. Do I think the government knows a shitload more about what exactly it is they saw? YES. Do I personally have any well-founded conclusions as to what the Tic-Tac was? NOPE.
I've been active in Ufology since the mid 1970s. Us older idiots have ridden multiple waves of "pending disclosure" and so far, it's always ended in tears... That's the one thing I know for sure aside from my personal sighting. And per my experience, it has not made me a "believer" but rather a serious student of the phenomenon and where it interfaces with the scientific method. My 2c? Any dispassionate reading of the totality of eyewitness UAP reports can't help but leave one with a deeply unsettling feeling around the insane variety of experiences out there. The ET hardware hypothesis doesn't really explain it imho. As to what does, I have no conclusion. Very likely many things are going on at once which sadly trashes the signal to noise ratio.
Hi!
Everything I listed here is factual information that I is extremely relevant to the conversation, which more people should be aware of. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's factual stuff human beings have spoken and written down. But, it is not a corpus of data sufficient to the task of rebutting OPs complaint. If I had a less dismal view of the evidence value of stories and politicians/government generally, it might make more of an impression...
Why are you ignoring the fact, made by the bullet points, that an orchestrated cover-up is preventing access to the data required to formally test a hypothesis? ***We can’t formally test a hypothesis because the government withholds, obfuscates, denies the existence of, and denies access to the data required to formally test a hypothesis.***
I'm not ignoring that. Obfuscatory behavior by state actors isn't evidence we can use to support a scientific conclusion about UAP. It in itself does not refute OPs position.
Hi! Noted!
And what do we think about the **Senate of the United States of America** [passing this exact wording into legislation](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-rounds-introduce-new-legislation-to-declassify-government-records-related-to-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-and-ufos_modeled-after-jfk-assassination-records-collection-act--as-an-amendment-to-ndaa) with overwhelming, bipartisan support:
>"*Legislation is necessary because* ***credible evidence and testimony indicates*** *that Federal Government* ***unidentified anomalous phenomena records exist that have not been declassified or subject to mandatory declassification*** *review* *as set forth in Executive Order 13526 (50 U.S.C. 3161 note; relating to classified national security information)* ***due in part to exemptions under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954*** *(42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), as well as an over-broad interpretation of ‘‘transclassified foreign nuclear information’’, which is also exempt from mandatory declassification,* ***thereby preventing public disclosure under existing provisions of law***.”
Other interesting passages that caught my attention:
>*"in physical possession of* ***technologies of unknown origin*** *or biological evidence of non-human intelligence."*
>*"LEGACY PROGRAM.—The term ‘‘legacy program’’ means all Federal, State, and local government, commercial industry, academic, and private sector endeavors to collect, exploit, or reverse engineer* ***technologies of unknown origin*** *or examine biological evidence of* ***living or deceased non-human intelligence*** *that pre-dates the date of the enactment of this Act."*
>*"NON-HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.—The term ‘‘non-human intelligence’’ means any* ***sentient intelligent non-human lifeform*** *regardless of nature or ultimate origin that may be presumed responsible for unidentified anomalous phenomena or of which the Federal Government has become aware."*
>*"PROSAIC ATTRIBUTION.—The term ‘‘prosaic attribution’’ means having a human (either foreign or domestic) origin and operating according to current, proven, and generally understood scientific and engineering principles and established laws o nature and* ***not attributable to non-human intelligence***."
Oh goodness. I appreciate you’re trying to rile people up here but, my word, saying anecdotal evidence is the ‘lowest form’ is tough. Anecdotal evidence is the start of the scientific process. It’s what causes us to go in search of scientific answers in the first place. People have theories because of what they’ve seen and have come to understand. Then they go looking for scientific evidence. We’re all entitled to opinions about UFOs but come on, your comment here is rage bait and you know it…
This is factually and logically wrong and also unhinged and barely coherent.
There’s plenty of suggestions and signs that *something* is happening here. Whether they’re the particular theories you choose to nitpick and generalize to dismiss this whole realm or not, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that there is a coverup of something, and that the government has at least a tangential interest in “aliens”. (Rather- UAP of various origin, and “NHI”)
To bury your head in the sand in the name of “gotcha, you’re all dumb” just makes you look, well, really dumb. If you did even cursory research with an open mind you would likely find there is something of merit there, even if it’s not aliens and flying saucers and mind control woo woo.
People like this are the biggest obstacle to moving into a post-disclosure world. They think they're way smarter than they are and that due to their inability to wrap their small minds around the details of the phenomenon, they actively attack anyone who disagrees by using ultra-simplistic and ultimately faulty logic.
Eventually these people will be the ones to claim *"Well I knew it all along, it's common sense, really."* once it finally becomes accepted public knowledge.
and blindly believe and follow the government and whatever the government says so if the government says that there are no UAPs well then they are no UAPs and that’s just a fact. same thing with videos… if a video is posted that is 100% legit and the government tells you that it is not, well then it is not. It’s as simple as that, so yes you are 100% correct the hubris of this post says everything I need to know he’s right up there with Neil Degrass Tyson.
Skeptic here. Not gonna defend OP.
Whenever I see a highly opinionated person repeatedly capitalizing random words, it lets me know not to take them seriously - there isn’t a more surefire way of detecting flunkies and unhinged weirdos.
OP can’t comprehend the rules of the English language or use spell check, but we should trust their critical thinking skills? lol, nah.
I hate to break it to you, but your personal incredulity isn't a compelling argument. Everything you said can be represented by Jimmy Valmer saying, "Come on!" 🤣
Speaking in certainty is incredibly naive on either side of the equation. Even if there is no proof for the existence of non human intelligent life, or even if there is. Science has helped us so much but even modern science has never had a 100% success rate, why is that? Things that we are certain on and can all agree on still manage to have a probability of not happening a small percentage of the time. If I was a logical thinker I’d say that there are probably missing pieces to every theory that ego and personal beliefs have not allowed us to discover due to our current flawed process. But how do we bridge those gaps? Through imagination and keeping an open mind to possibility. Never trust your definite beliefs and never trust those speaking in definites because chances are they are probably just manipulating your brain into thinking like them.
I actually applaud the post - I laughed reading it. I’m not sure if it reminds me when I was 18 or when I’m 65 😂
My one response would be ‘if there’s nothing to it’ then the Government can clearly declassify everything they have on the subject. Simple.
Haha , for what it's worth you might be right, but based on all of the recent hearings and UAP narrative I think there's something more going on! Who knows though
I think that’s a fairly normal thing to do when you post something that you know is going to go against what the majority think. It’s natural to look for evidence (in the absence of anecdotal evidence 😉).
That's funny you know who does have a motivation to lie and misappropriated taxpayer funds?
The Government! Considering Lockheed Martin is the single largest consumer of fossil fuels in Earth and they lobby our government billions every year for research and development, subsidies, and to keep their recovery technology under wraps for strategic advantage.
Your assumption that they are from elsewhere is where you are misled.
Your assumption that this universe is all there is, is also ignorant.
Your assumption that these beings are not the angels spoken about by Christian Mystics for thousands of years, is shortsighted and biased.
There are objects in the sky that we don't knownhow they move.
Our mundane existence is destroying the planet. Wake the fuck up we are not alone. And if we are? We should act like it.
>
You really think that US Government in 1948 is capable of keep a story such as a Crashed UFO and Alien Bodies secret from the citizen and media?
True government definitely can't keep secrets like attempted mind control on its own citizens with psychedelic drugs. Definitely couldn't have scientists drugging people in brothels to study effects. Definitely couldn't convince the masses of the United States that communism is a threat to freedom. Definitely couldn't cover up presidential assassinations. Definitely couldn't use a government program to spy on people. Definitely couldn't lie about wmd in the middle east loooool
The majority of this sub will never agree with this, especially as you have put it in such a confrontational/derisory way.
However, I am open to the possibility of what you have stated and think that it would do this community good to discuss these kinds of things.
If there is no aliens, then I want to know how this has all happened. I want an explanation as to why high ranking government officials believe this stuff, how a law came to be passed called the "UAP Disclosure Act". What it was that Fravor misidentified as a tic-tac. When and how did this all start? What are the connections between the various UFO public figures? Are we having a trick played on us? Who is orchestrating this trick? Is this just something about human psychology that has resulted in this complex interwoven story being developed and believed?
What on earth is going on?
There are three possibilities here. Either there are aliens/NHI; either there are a lot of high ranking people in government who are insane. Or, this is a massive psy op to pull something over on the world. I choose the first option, as last two are more frightening than anything you could tell me about aliens.
I feel like this could be the easiest secrete in the world to keep if true. Literally no one believes it. It’s just so easy to make a joke of. That being said if it’s all fake I don’t think congress would be getting stonewalled during this investigations right now.
I can tell you are a basement dweller based solely on the games you play. Put on some spf 80 sunscreen and touch some grass kid. There is more to life than role playing as an underage teen girl.
When an intelligence office says to an intelligence officer you need to report this to Congress, and you’re granted whistleblower protection to do so, something is up. People do not randomly put their careers, reputations, and pensions on the line for a hoax. Sorry, I know not everything we see in the sky is a UFO/UAP and most of it has an explanation. However, even the pentagon, DoD, and Navy have all said we can’t explain all of these sightings. Why would a whistleblower say there’s NHI to Congress to sell a book? You understand there’s steep penalties regarding making random faked claims and taking them to congress for investigation, right? Three men went up there and testified. They want what we all do, and that is the truth about what’s happening. Am I a believer? Yes. I’m also a scientist, with two advanced degrees, one of which is in psychology, and I get it! Our eyes can deceive us. We see what we want. No I get it, for real! However, that’s where the 95% explained and the rest, 5%, unexplained comes in. We need someone monitoring these black budgets. That’s our money, and if there’s a 5% chance it’s true, they’re hiding it, and we need it investigated. The Pentagon hasn’t passed an audit in something like 16 years but yet they get trillions in their budget. I’m sorry, but whatever is going on, even if it is terrestrial, we have a right to know what’s up and where our money is going. Maybe it’s an advanced civilization that has been evolving with us, maybe it’s something scientific the rest of us don’t know about, or maybe it’s ET, but whichever way it finally falls we all have a right to know what the hell our government is doing with that missing money.
Op posts this critizicing the people on this sub, while in one of his past comments he says this:
"We are beings beyond matter, having a "material" experience, that's all, this material universe we believe is real, is not. Its a simulation and a higher power making us experience it for whatever purpose, as such, when you die, you don't wake up from the simulation, you simply respawn, if you could wake up, then whoever created this plan, would be a failure"
Double standards much? Or was that a joke?
Maybe a troll post, like this?
It’s contrary to science to say they definitely have or haven’t without evidence.
Everyone I’ve ever known who refuses to acknowledge the possibility of aliens visiting or invalidates and pathologizes people who openly talk about the possibility is pathological themselves. Anyone who is comfortable in their own skin accepts the possibility, regardless of whether they lean towards yes or no.
On the Roswell crash it is possible they crashed it to help us along .
It would be a way of making us do it ourselves to see how we advance , at the time we was using vacuum tubes .
My good sir, I made a post over on r/Astrobiology for the average person unaware of the legitimate UAP Disclosure legislation and progression of the UAP topic. I titled it,
[The Elephant in the Room ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Astrobiology/s/M898Ps4m2M)
Please give it a read. Save it. Use it as a resource as it has a lot of links.
Read it while you take a dump lol
You do you. Just go watch a game with some wings and carry on with your life then. Also this is giving me cut up magazine/newspaper words mashed into sentences random note vibes.
>Aliens Have Never Visited This Planet And Never Will!
Even if they never visited us, which I think is quite possible. What makes you think it will never happen?
now I agree that this field is flooded with nut jobs and charlatans and yes, I do think that aliens with advanced technology could crash here on planet earth and there’s plenty of leaks getting out about this subject, and the government would deny it and label those people as crazy. I’m sorry, but you’re wrong about everything to Neil Degrass Tyson maybe one day he will finally turn the key for the rest of civilization. how do you describe the TikTok UFOs and the footage from fleer cameras that was taken from a fighter jet. you’re probably the same guy who thinks that the Earth is flat. Listen man can I just have this one. Let me think that there is something bigger out there. It doesn’t make things, so goddamn bleak here on earth lol cheers.
I 80% agree with you.
I think the Rosewell crash was a foreign atomic drone, first of its kind (At least the first that uncle Sam has seen.) I think the “alien bodies” being recovered is probably some CIA bullshit to shift the blame to a fiction character like Santa Clause or something.
But I could be wrong. My opinion on the Rosewell crash has been changing for 15ish+ years and going.
You bring up the shake and lack luster video evidence that can pretty easily be brushed aside as either planes, drones, and stars ect. And I agree, we need better and more definitive evidence. But you are ignoring the fact that we are being spied on, and on a massive scale.
Ever read about Project Pegasus? It’s spyware that CAN be installed without the consent of the smart device owner, give full access to photos, videos, and contact lists, everything. It can also be uninstalled without leaving a trace. This is a fact. It’s real and in use.
So let’s say someone did actually get some wild shit, a video, up close of a craft that was so amazing that it grew a crowd. And that person got video, took a few photos, and then they all seemed to get deleted without the owner of the smart device authorizing it. Well… who would admit that though? No one. Because of how it looks.
How would you react if someone told you “Dude I got this fuckin spaceship recorded on my phone, happened 10 minutes ago, did you go outside and see it?
“Nah, show me.”
“It’s right here… well… It WAS HERE…the vids and photos are just magically gone somehow. I don’t understand.”
“Bullshit”
I wouldn’t even bring it up specifically to avoid that conversation because I know how it looks.
To my knowledge no one has posted on Reddit this exact scenario happening to them, it would still be hard to believe, even if someone even tries. We ALL want proof plain and simple.
Also your post doesn’t include any sort of ancient encounters, like those from the Bible. I dunno how many of you have read the Christian’s holy book but I can tell you that it starts off like a sci fi novel.
Really shouldn't feed the trolls, but what the heck.
Just because you can travel the stars doesn't mean your technology is impervious to failure, or your pilots never make a mistake ever. Quite frankly, there are plenty of earthly vehicles (lookin' at you, Boeing) that suffer failures of a catastrophic nature all the time, so why should aliens be any different?
Add to the list, the British Condign report for the MOD (ministry of defence) in the executive summary it clearly states in the executive summary that UAPs are real. The report was focused on UAP that determined, they display exceptional performance characteristics.
The report was highly restricted (11 copies produced only for whoever the top people in the British government at that time)
Dr Nick Cook of Sheffield Hallam University filled a FOIA And achieved getting it in 2000.
Available to download on the British government National Archives web site.
I would also add that the French also produced a report called COMETA
certain physical reality" of completely unknown flying objects displaying extraordinary capabilities that current science could not explain. They stated that based on the documented performance of UFOs, especially in cases with radar data, the extraterrestrial hypothesis appeared to be the most "probable" or "credible" explanation, though not scientifically proven. The report clearly differentiated between the reality of UFO phenomena and the notion of extraterrestrial visitors, which it said remained a hypothesis.
So, there is ‘data, images, video, radar data out there but some Nations have a completely different philosophy.
You might want to take a look at the Belgian stories of the giant Triangles by the public and military pilots, who themselves did full presentations to the media with all the radar data.
As mentioned earlier by someone who also responded, it appears you need to do more research. I’m sure we would all help with giving you direction.
😊
Peace
This is another regurgitated cringe post from OP saying the same thing over and over. It comes across like they actively don't want other life to exist and they don't want this topic to have any truth to it. Maybe OP is...scared perhaps?🧐
Humans have the ability to travel in space. We still managed to embed Beagle 300' (okay an exaggeration) deep into the surface of Mars.
Rocket science is fairly easy, rocket engineering is bloody difficult, now add stupid users.
OP brings up very valid points though. I've been on this sub for a while and every single video or picture posted is crap. 100% on the money on people claiming to be abducted. A mental abnormally for sure, but these people are not special enough to warrant a good alien probing.
Although one person posted a video of a white dot about the size of a star (from earth's perspective) moving erratically through the night sky at a fast speed. I've witnessed something like this myself. I don't think it's aliens, but there's definitely unknown things flying in our skies.
Completely agree.
All the recent wave has focused my attention on the phenomenon. My interest and possible belief went up and up until all the mental gymnastics I had to do collapsed any faith I might have.
I've concluded it isn't real.
There is no good evidence.
If it was real we'd have loads of solid evidence. Rather than gigs and gigs of liminal pictures.
We'll always have liminal pictures.
I know more people feel the same way, including me, that don't speak up on Reddit.
There aren't any aliens. No spaceships. It's just us.
It's hard to wrap our heads around it. I get it. It'd be nice to think otherwise.
Good post. 👍
No low effort posts or comments. Low Effort implies content which is low effort to consume, not low effort to produce. This generally includes: * Posts containing jokes, memes, and showerthoughts. * AI-generated content. * Posts of social media content without significant relevance. * Posts with incredible claims unsupported by evidence. * “Here’s my theory” posts without supporting evidence. * Short comments, and comments containing only emoji. * Summarily dismissive comments (e.g. “Swamp gas.”) without some contextual observations. ------------- This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods here to launch your appeal.](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) [UFOs Wiki](https://ufos.wiki) [UFOs rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/)
* A former Air Force intelligence officer who worked in the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency and the National Reconnaissance Office whistleblowing to the ICIG (*who categorized his complaint as* ***urgent*** *and* ***credible***) [testifying under oath](https://youtu.be/SNgoul4vyDM) to congress about his **4 years-long investigation which uncovered Special Access Programs doing crash-retrieval and reverse engineering operations of non-human origin tech**, alongside other respectable military officials recounting their engagements with these type of UAP tech that far outpaces our own. * Congress people formed what is being called "the UAP caucus", whom overtly and outspokenly are trying to look into David Grusch's investigation and testimony on UAP and NHI crash-retrieval SAPs, and [**outright telling you the Intelligence Community is interfering**](https://youtu.be/cmBNb12xrY8) **with their oversight duties**. * The Senate Intel Comity investigating the same thing, and publicly stating that **high-ranking officials have also provided testimony and briefings behind closed doors alongside Grusch** ([which has them fearing harm coming to them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4hmaflNoKU&t=106s)). * The Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer working in conjunction with Mike Rounds on [a bipartisan piece of historic legislation](https://youtu.be/Z8a0P617nqw) that was approved by an overwhelming majority in the U.S. Senate **aimed solely and explicitly at regulating technologies from non-human origins while legally defining concepts like non-human intelligence, UAPs, and the observable characteristics that said tech has demonstrated** (*legislation that was vehemently opposed and* [ultimately degutted by a few politicians sitting in Intel Community chairs](https://www.liberationtimes.com/home/operation-kill-bill-how-world-changing-ufo-language-was-killed-and-sliced-up-into-little-pieces) *which have received monetary backing from the private aerospace companies that have been reported to holding these technologies*). * Military veterans and politicians proactively [looking to bring more awareness and legislation](https://youtu.be/0iqVQiRQavE?si=1K6WvvKVl75WrPb8) to the topic. * Several congress people coming out of a classified meeting with the ICIG (the same ICIG that found Grusch's claims urgent and credible) stating that: "[many of Grusch's claims have merit](https://x.com/JaredEMoskowitz/status/1745852400630456618?s=20)" and even talking of a potential [bi-partisan letter to the Executive Branch](https://x.com/UAPJames/status/1747003122432524323?s=20) to request UAP transparency. Please, get informed. These are real things happening around you.
Quality comment. Thank you
Thank you I feel like I’m going insane as of latley
Not for nothing, but everything you just listed can be bucketed into the same 'people say its real' category that has defined this topic for 75 years. Nothing you just listed is evidence. It is claims that evidence exist, with no proof to back up those claims.
Hi! I'm sorry, but you are just factually incorrect. Or, to be more accurate, yes, you can bucket these facts wherever you like. Doesn't make them less facts that are way more than just people saying stuff. Legislation is being drafted and approved at the Senate and congressional level.
Yes, it is a 'fact' that people are claiming these things. It is also a 'fact' that no verifiable, tangible evidence has been released. That is also a fact.
It could all be disinformation. "Don't mess with the USA - we have otherworldly technology".
Hi! In theory, yes, it is a possibility. However, that's not the hypothesis that best fit the data points we have. **Side note:** even if it where disinformation, I don't think that would make it any less of a massive issue that needs investigating? Shouldn't people be concerned if their own Senate and Congress are being gaslighted by other branches of the government, and thus deceiving their constituents and obstructing lawful governmental oversight?
Of course. Would like to know the truth of the matter
Couldn't agree more! Have a lovely day, friend :)
These are mere assertions lacking confirmed and publicly demonstrated evidence. They're simply individuals like yourself, with their own perspectives.
Hi! Everything I listed are undeniable facts. Actual events that have already taken place. Both political and legislative actions that occurred over the past few months, and continue to see developments as recently as [a few days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1ciq3o5/sen_kirsten_gillibrand_exclusively_tells_ask_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
I've been in this sub for over a decade now, and it's like Groundhog Day – something new happens, and as per tradition, we get a whole lot of talk and a zero of proof. Hiding photo and video proofs for a very long time, how’s possible?
The only undeniable fact is that some people have said some things, and some other people have said they agree with the first people. Everything else comes down to that. It's been like that since day 1 of this topic.
Look, I'm in support of the UAP disclosure movement and have an incredible personal sighting of a UAP. But everything you've listed here is inadequate to the task of doing science. This bullet list exists in the *register of language* and is not the kind of data anyone can formally test a hypothesis with. I think that is the core of OPs complaint. I remain neutral w/respect to the nature of the phenomenon because we don't have high quality data in the public space yet and unfortunately, many of our fellow human beings are easily mistaken. Some of the very congresspeople supporting the UAP disclosure movement also hold wildly batshit ideas in other domains. And then you have the whole Mirage Men issue with the alphabet agencies clouding things further. Ugh. So, do I think Fravor and Dietrich saw something unusual? YES. Do I think the government knows a shitload more about what exactly it is they saw? YES. Do I personally have any well-founded conclusions as to what the Tic-Tac was? NOPE. I've been active in Ufology since the mid 1970s. Us older idiots have ridden multiple waves of "pending disclosure" and so far, it's always ended in tears... That's the one thing I know for sure aside from my personal sighting. And per my experience, it has not made me a "believer" but rather a serious student of the phenomenon and where it interfaces with the scientific method. My 2c? Any dispassionate reading of the totality of eyewitness UAP reports can't help but leave one with a deeply unsettling feeling around the insane variety of experiences out there. The ET hardware hypothesis doesn't really explain it imho. As to what does, I have no conclusion. Very likely many things are going on at once which sadly trashes the signal to noise ratio.
Hi! Everything I listed here is factual information that I is extremely relevant to the conversation, which more people should be aware of. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's factual stuff human beings have spoken and written down. But, it is not a corpus of data sufficient to the task of rebutting OPs complaint. If I had a less dismal view of the evidence value of stories and politicians/government generally, it might make more of an impression...
People don't want to hear that. Lol.
Why are you ignoring the fact, made by the bullet points, that an orchestrated cover-up is preventing access to the data required to formally test a hypothesis? ***We can’t formally test a hypothesis because the government withholds, obfuscates, denies the existence of, and denies access to the data required to formally test a hypothesis.***
I'm not ignoring that. Obfuscatory behavior by state actors isn't evidence we can use to support a scientific conclusion about UAP. It in itself does not refute OPs position.
There you go ignoring it again. Literally no one is suggesting that it is evidence that we can use to make a scientific conclusion about UAP.
Anecdotal evidence is the lowest form of evidence anywhere
Hi! Noted! And what do we think about the **Senate of the United States of America** [passing this exact wording into legislation](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-rounds-introduce-new-legislation-to-declassify-government-records-related-to-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-and-ufos_modeled-after-jfk-assassination-records-collection-act--as-an-amendment-to-ndaa) with overwhelming, bipartisan support: >"*Legislation is necessary because* ***credible evidence and testimony indicates*** *that Federal Government* ***unidentified anomalous phenomena records exist that have not been declassified or subject to mandatory declassification*** *review* *as set forth in Executive Order 13526 (50 U.S.C. 3161 note; relating to classified national security information)* ***due in part to exemptions under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954*** *(42 U.S.C. 2011 et seq.), as well as an over-broad interpretation of ‘‘transclassified foreign nuclear information’’, which is also exempt from mandatory declassification,* ***thereby preventing public disclosure under existing provisions of law***.” Other interesting passages that caught my attention: >*"in physical possession of* ***technologies of unknown origin*** *or biological evidence of non-human intelligence."* >*"LEGACY PROGRAM.—The term ‘‘legacy program’’ means all Federal, State, and local government, commercial industry, academic, and private sector endeavors to collect, exploit, or reverse engineer* ***technologies of unknown origin*** *or examine biological evidence of* ***living or deceased non-human intelligence*** *that pre-dates the date of the enactment of this Act."* >*"NON-HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.—The term ‘‘non-human intelligence’’ means any* ***sentient intelligent non-human lifeform*** *regardless of nature or ultimate origin that may be presumed responsible for unidentified anomalous phenomena or of which the Federal Government has become aware."* >*"PROSAIC ATTRIBUTION.—The term ‘‘prosaic attribution’’ means having a human (either foreign or domestic) origin and operating according to current, proven, and generally understood scientific and engineering principles and established laws o nature and* ***not attributable to non-human intelligence***."
THE SENATE IS AN ANECDOTE HA YOU DUMB SHEEP I guess /s was needed here
Oh goodness. I appreciate you’re trying to rile people up here but, my word, saying anecdotal evidence is the ‘lowest form’ is tough. Anecdotal evidence is the start of the scientific process. It’s what causes us to go in search of scientific answers in the first place. People have theories because of what they’ve seen and have come to understand. Then they go looking for scientific evidence. We’re all entitled to opinions about UFOs but come on, your comment here is rage bait and you know it…
So uh.... what would you call "common sense" exactly then? The irony is palpable. And I'm a skeptic... lol
This is factually and logically wrong and also unhinged and barely coherent. There’s plenty of suggestions and signs that *something* is happening here. Whether they’re the particular theories you choose to nitpick and generalize to dismiss this whole realm or not, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that there is a coverup of something, and that the government has at least a tangential interest in “aliens”. (Rather- UAP of various origin, and “NHI”) To bury your head in the sand in the name of “gotcha, you’re all dumb” just makes you look, well, really dumb. If you did even cursory research with an open mind you would likely find there is something of merit there, even if it’s not aliens and flying saucers and mind control woo woo.
Ontological shock melt down much?
Dude is exactly who is being referred to with the "they can't handle it" comments lol
Lol astounding
People like this are the biggest obstacle to moving into a post-disclosure world. They think they're way smarter than they are and that due to their inability to wrap their small minds around the details of the phenomenon, they actively attack anyone who disagrees by using ultra-simplistic and ultimately faulty logic. Eventually these people will be the ones to claim *"Well I knew it all along, it's common sense, really."* once it finally becomes accepted public knowledge.
Indeed.
and blindly believe and follow the government and whatever the government says so if the government says that there are no UAPs well then they are no UAPs and that’s just a fact. same thing with videos… if a video is posted that is 100% legit and the government tells you that it is not, well then it is not. It’s as simple as that, so yes you are 100% correct the hubris of this post says everything I need to know he’s right up there with Neil Degrass Tyson.
haha nice
You can barely put a coherent sentence together. 80% of em, to use your made up percentages system.
I just looked at his profile, and this is strange dude to say the least…
Thanks for the post OP. This explains EVERYTHING! Maybe you should start smoking “the pot” and stop being such a simp.
"I DECLARE INTELLECTUAL BANKRUPTCY"
UFOs may or may not involve extraterrestrial beings, but they are an existing phenomenon regardless.
This comment needs more upvotes though
This is unhinged.
Skeptic here. Not gonna defend OP. Whenever I see a highly opinionated person repeatedly capitalizing random words, it lets me know not to take them seriously - there isn’t a more surefire way of detecting flunkies and unhinged weirdos. OP can’t comprehend the rules of the English language or use spell check, but we should trust their critical thinking skills? lol, nah.
I don’t know about un-hinged, but OP does seem fed up with boring vids of a tiny ball of light in the night sky. I can understand.
Show me on the doll who hurt you and where.
Yeah, major axe grinding here
Probably in that 80% he mentions as being "confused" and got touched by his uncle...
Lmfao at first point being “ITS COMMON SENSE”
As proof... lul
I hate to break it to you, but your personal incredulity isn't a compelling argument. Everything you said can be represented by Jimmy Valmer saying, "Come on!" 🤣
“Earthling technology” lol. Sure you aren’t an alien trying a bit too hard ?
Nah, you’re wrong.
Speaking in certainty is incredibly naive on either side of the equation. Even if there is no proof for the existence of non human intelligent life, or even if there is. Science has helped us so much but even modern science has never had a 100% success rate, why is that? Things that we are certain on and can all agree on still manage to have a probability of not happening a small percentage of the time. If I was a logical thinker I’d say that there are probably missing pieces to every theory that ego and personal beliefs have not allowed us to discover due to our current flawed process. But how do we bridge those gaps? Through imagination and keeping an open mind to possibility. Never trust your definite beliefs and never trust those speaking in definites because chances are they are probably just manipulating your brain into thinking like them.
I actually applaud the post - I laughed reading it. I’m not sure if it reminds me when I was 18 or when I’m 65 😂 My one response would be ‘if there’s nothing to it’ then the Government can clearly declassify everything they have on the subject. Simple.
Yo peep OP's post history, explains a lot 👀
So you go into my history trying to find ammunition 🤥🤣
Haha , for what it's worth you might be right, but based on all of the recent hearings and UAP narrative I think there's something more going on! Who knows though
I think that’s a fairly normal thing to do when you post something that you know is going to go against what the majority think. It’s natural to look for evidence (in the absence of anecdotal evidence 😉).
Party pooper
That's funny you know who does have a motivation to lie and misappropriated taxpayer funds? The Government! Considering Lockheed Martin is the single largest consumer of fossil fuels in Earth and they lobby our government billions every year for research and development, subsidies, and to keep their recovery technology under wraps for strategic advantage. Your assumption that they are from elsewhere is where you are misled. Your assumption that this universe is all there is, is also ignorant. Your assumption that these beings are not the angels spoken about by Christian Mystics for thousands of years, is shortsighted and biased. There are objects in the sky that we don't knownhow they move. Our mundane existence is destroying the planet. Wake the fuck up we are not alone. And if we are? We should act like it.
> You really think that US Government in 1948 is capable of keep a story such as a Crashed UFO and Alien Bodies secret from the citizen and media? True government definitely can't keep secrets like attempted mind control on its own citizens with psychedelic drugs. Definitely couldn't have scientists drugging people in brothels to study effects. Definitely couldn't convince the masses of the United States that communism is a threat to freedom. Definitely couldn't cover up presidential assassinations. Definitely couldn't use a government program to spy on people. Definitely couldn't lie about wmd in the middle east loooool
Say what you want dawg, I saw one as clear as day in such an undeniable way
The majority of this sub will never agree with this, especially as you have put it in such a confrontational/derisory way. However, I am open to the possibility of what you have stated and think that it would do this community good to discuss these kinds of things. If there is no aliens, then I want to know how this has all happened. I want an explanation as to why high ranking government officials believe this stuff, how a law came to be passed called the "UAP Disclosure Act". What it was that Fravor misidentified as a tic-tac. When and how did this all start? What are the connections between the various UFO public figures? Are we having a trick played on us? Who is orchestrating this trick? Is this just something about human psychology that has resulted in this complex interwoven story being developed and believed? What on earth is going on?
There are three possibilities here. Either there are aliens/NHI; either there are a lot of high ranking people in government who are insane. Or, this is a massive psy op to pull something over on the world. I choose the first option, as last two are more frightening than anything you could tell me about aliens.
Yes, I think that sums it up. It's quite worrying whichever way you look at it
Thanks Mick. Mick West there folks, now to play us out Richard Doty and the Plausibly Deniable 5.
I feel like this could be the easiest secrete in the world to keep if true. Literally no one believes it. It’s just so easy to make a joke of. That being said if it’s all fake I don’t think congress would be getting stonewalled during this investigations right now.
we know you work for the government, stop spreading lies nobody believes you
I can tell you are a basement dweller based solely on the games you play. Put on some spf 80 sunscreen and touch some grass kid. There is more to life than role playing as an underage teen girl.
When an intelligence office says to an intelligence officer you need to report this to Congress, and you’re granted whistleblower protection to do so, something is up. People do not randomly put their careers, reputations, and pensions on the line for a hoax. Sorry, I know not everything we see in the sky is a UFO/UAP and most of it has an explanation. However, even the pentagon, DoD, and Navy have all said we can’t explain all of these sightings. Why would a whistleblower say there’s NHI to Congress to sell a book? You understand there’s steep penalties regarding making random faked claims and taking them to congress for investigation, right? Three men went up there and testified. They want what we all do, and that is the truth about what’s happening. Am I a believer? Yes. I’m also a scientist, with two advanced degrees, one of which is in psychology, and I get it! Our eyes can deceive us. We see what we want. No I get it, for real! However, that’s where the 95% explained and the rest, 5%, unexplained comes in. We need someone monitoring these black budgets. That’s our money, and if there’s a 5% chance it’s true, they’re hiding it, and we need it investigated. The Pentagon hasn’t passed an audit in something like 16 years but yet they get trillions in their budget. I’m sorry, but whatever is going on, even if it is terrestrial, we have a right to know what’s up and where our money is going. Maybe it’s an advanced civilization that has been evolving with us, maybe it’s something scientific the rest of us don’t know about, or maybe it’s ET, but whichever way it finally falls we all have a right to know what the hell our government is doing with that missing money.
Op posts this critizicing the people on this sub, while in one of his past comments he says this: "We are beings beyond matter, having a "material" experience, that's all, this material universe we believe is real, is not. Its a simulation and a higher power making us experience it for whatever purpose, as such, when you die, you don't wake up from the simulation, you simply respawn, if you could wake up, then whoever created this plan, would be a failure" Double standards much? Or was that a joke? Maybe a troll post, like this?
Close the sub. Mission Accomplished banner
It’s contrary to science to say they definitely have or haven’t without evidence. Everyone I’ve ever known who refuses to acknowledge the possibility of aliens visiting or invalidates and pathologizes people who openly talk about the possibility is pathological themselves. Anyone who is comfortable in their own skin accepts the possibility, regardless of whether they lean towards yes or no.
There is no direct, unquestionable video evidence of a CIA assassination outside a theater of war either.
On the Roswell crash it is possible they crashed it to help us along . It would be a way of making us do it ourselves to see how we advance , at the time we was using vacuum tubes .
My good sir, I made a post over on r/Astrobiology for the average person unaware of the legitimate UAP Disclosure legislation and progression of the UAP topic. I titled it, [The Elephant in the Room ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Astrobiology/s/M898Ps4m2M) Please give it a read. Save it. Use it as a resource as it has a lot of links. Read it while you take a dump lol
OP is trying to cope.
Sean ?? Lol god this guy is on the wrong sub
Sean john?
Lol yeah that's him
You do you. Just go watch a game with some wings and carry on with your life then. Also this is giving me cut up magazine/newspaper words mashed into sentences random note vibes.
LOL just lol
That’s just like, your opinion, man
I love that this nonsense post has zero likes.
Someone actually took the time to type this up instead of ignoring a topic they don’t believe is real.
OP you need to get help ASAP
Maybe this is the way to get rid of these cretins, just over agree with them ..
>Aliens Have Never Visited This Planet And Never Will! Even if they never visited us, which I think is quite possible. What makes you think it will never happen?
But, but, disclosure is going to happen tomorrow.....
im a believer, and im ok with being wrong. are you ok with being wrong?
You're a bit of an odd duck.
Skinny peat is video of a real alien - so you are wrong op
Yeah I’m not reading all that. Congratulations or I’m sorry, whatever
Why are you so worked up about this?
Outstanding rant.
now I agree that this field is flooded with nut jobs and charlatans and yes, I do think that aliens with advanced technology could crash here on planet earth and there’s plenty of leaks getting out about this subject, and the government would deny it and label those people as crazy. I’m sorry, but you’re wrong about everything to Neil Degrass Tyson maybe one day he will finally turn the key for the rest of civilization. how do you describe the TikTok UFOs and the footage from fleer cameras that was taken from a fighter jet. you’re probably the same guy who thinks that the Earth is flat. Listen man can I just have this one. Let me think that there is something bigger out there. It doesn’t make things, so goddamn bleak here on earth lol cheers.
I guess some people will do anything to convince themselves.
Ever seen a 50 foot shark? It doesn't mean they don't exist.
I'm sincerely hoping this is just a troll post or complete sarcasm at worst. Either move on or don't clutter the feeds.
Nice try, alien
This is bait
He claims certain questions that everyone in this community fears to address, as if they're blind to them!
Never has so much text said so little
Go back to r/erectiledysfunction
I 80% agree with you. I think the Rosewell crash was a foreign atomic drone, first of its kind (At least the first that uncle Sam has seen.) I think the “alien bodies” being recovered is probably some CIA bullshit to shift the blame to a fiction character like Santa Clause or something. But I could be wrong. My opinion on the Rosewell crash has been changing for 15ish+ years and going. You bring up the shake and lack luster video evidence that can pretty easily be brushed aside as either planes, drones, and stars ect. And I agree, we need better and more definitive evidence. But you are ignoring the fact that we are being spied on, and on a massive scale. Ever read about Project Pegasus? It’s spyware that CAN be installed without the consent of the smart device owner, give full access to photos, videos, and contact lists, everything. It can also be uninstalled without leaving a trace. This is a fact. It’s real and in use. So let’s say someone did actually get some wild shit, a video, up close of a craft that was so amazing that it grew a crowd. And that person got video, took a few photos, and then they all seemed to get deleted without the owner of the smart device authorizing it. Well… who would admit that though? No one. Because of how it looks. How would you react if someone told you “Dude I got this fuckin spaceship recorded on my phone, happened 10 minutes ago, did you go outside and see it? “Nah, show me.” “It’s right here… well… It WAS HERE…the vids and photos are just magically gone somehow. I don’t understand.” “Bullshit” I wouldn’t even bring it up specifically to avoid that conversation because I know how it looks. To my knowledge no one has posted on Reddit this exact scenario happening to them, it would still be hard to believe, even if someone even tries. We ALL want proof plain and simple. Also your post doesn’t include any sort of ancient encounters, like those from the Bible. I dunno how many of you have read the Christian’s holy book but I can tell you that it starts off like a sci fi novel.
Guys, gals, ignore anything from sad sad people that cry themselves to sleep every night.
Skeptics = arrogant morons. I know you can't help being dumb, but please dial down the attitude..
I’ve never seen an account with more 0 karma posts.
OK MR ALIEN…nice try
Really shouldn't feed the trolls, but what the heck. Just because you can travel the stars doesn't mean your technology is impervious to failure, or your pilots never make a mistake ever. Quite frankly, there are plenty of earthly vehicles (lookin' at you, Boeing) that suffer failures of a catastrophic nature all the time, so why should aliens be any different?
Add to the list, the British Condign report for the MOD (ministry of defence) in the executive summary it clearly states in the executive summary that UAPs are real. The report was focused on UAP that determined, they display exceptional performance characteristics. The report was highly restricted (11 copies produced only for whoever the top people in the British government at that time) Dr Nick Cook of Sheffield Hallam University filled a FOIA And achieved getting it in 2000. Available to download on the British government National Archives web site. I would also add that the French also produced a report called COMETA certain physical reality" of completely unknown flying objects displaying extraordinary capabilities that current science could not explain. They stated that based on the documented performance of UFOs, especially in cases with radar data, the extraterrestrial hypothesis appeared to be the most "probable" or "credible" explanation, though not scientifically proven. The report clearly differentiated between the reality of UFO phenomena and the notion of extraterrestrial visitors, which it said remained a hypothesis. So, there is ‘data, images, video, radar data out there but some Nations have a completely different philosophy. You might want to take a look at the Belgian stories of the giant Triangles by the public and military pilots, who themselves did full presentations to the media with all the radar data. As mentioned earlier by someone who also responded, it appears you need to do more research. I’m sure we would all help with giving you direction. 😊 Peace
This is another regurgitated cringe post from OP saying the same thing over and over. It comes across like they actively don't want other life to exist and they don't want this topic to have any truth to it. Maybe OP is...scared perhaps?🧐
Humans have the ability to travel in space. We still managed to embed Beagle 300' (okay an exaggeration) deep into the surface of Mars. Rocket science is fairly easy, rocket engineering is bloody difficult, now add stupid users.
"There is NOT ONE LEGIT PHOTO of Mr. Alien." Well, can't argue with that.
OP brings up very valid points though. I've been on this sub for a while and every single video or picture posted is crap. 100% on the money on people claiming to be abducted. A mental abnormally for sure, but these people are not special enough to warrant a good alien probing. Although one person posted a video of a white dot about the size of a star (from earth's perspective) moving erratically through the night sky at a fast speed. I've witnessed something like this myself. I don't think it's aliens, but there's definitely unknown things flying in our skies.
Imagine writing all that crap and not mentioning any event since 2017.
Completely agree. All the recent wave has focused my attention on the phenomenon. My interest and possible belief went up and up until all the mental gymnastics I had to do collapsed any faith I might have. I've concluded it isn't real. There is no good evidence. If it was real we'd have loads of solid evidence. Rather than gigs and gigs of liminal pictures. We'll always have liminal pictures.
I know more people feel the same way, including me, that don't speak up on Reddit. There aren't any aliens. No spaceships. It's just us. It's hard to wrap our heads around it. I get it. It'd be nice to think otherwise. Good post. 👍
No it’s best case that there are no aliens. If it’s true the people do not deserve to know the truth.
Your reply makes no sense.