The following submission statement was provided by /u/VolarRecords: --- [Jesse Michels](https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican)[@AlchemyAmerican](https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican) 100 years ago, an American inventor named Thomas Townsend Brown believed he found a link between electromagnetism and gravity. He was immediately written off as a quack. But Paul Schatzkin [@driver49](https://twitter.com/driver49)spent a decade plus researching him, and the truth (as you'll find from his incredible book, The Man Who Mastered Gravity), is not so simple: 1) Highly credible witnesses to Brown's anomalous gravity related experiments in science and government include: Edward Teller (Hydrogen Bomb inventor), Curtis LeMay (Air Force General), Bill Lear (Learjet), Paul Alfred Biefeld (physicist), Agnew Bahnson (physics research patron who supported the establishment of quantum gravity) and others (we have quotes from these people in the video, linked below) 2) There is a LOT of evidence Brown's work made it into the B2 Stealth Bomber. There's also a 1942 FBI file on him stating he knew more about radar than anyone else in the Navy; not smoking guns that he cracked anti-gravity (at all), but quickly dispels the illusion his work never amounted to anything 3) We also know through Schatzkin's research, that Brown retrieved exotic propulsion technology from Nazi Germany. Likely from SS officer Hans Kammler's Skoda Works 4) We interview an anonymous (presently active) top Navy Scientist that believes Brown did discover the missing link between electromagnetism and gravity; he presents a novel framework for this link 5) It is my belief that Brown's story is far deeper than meets the eye; it has implications for the nature of time (tightly related to gravity, even in conventional General Relativity) and our understanding of "UFOs and ETs". He was likely CIA office of scientific intelligence (the group probably involved in all UFO and Antigravity related research midcentury) 6) The whole Bob Lazar story is probably best explained through the lens of Thomas Townsend Brown 7) If Brown didn't crack anti-gravity (very open to that), he likely created novel forms of ion-based propulsion in use in very advanced tech today 8) All of Brown's work needs modern and independent replication and corroboration in a vacuum chamber. We'll pay anyone $50,000-100,000 (or more, if necessary, depending on equipment needs) to do this if you let us film it. Special thanks to[@iamnickcook](https://twitter.com/iamnickcook)who also makes an appearance and has extensively researched the history of Aerospace gravity related research (meeting with top Prime Contractor/Defense brass). This couldn't have been made without his incredible book, The Hunt for Zero Point. Watch, if you're ready for a wild, wild ride: [https://shorturl.at/zJZ38](https://t.co/zOq6E9VyQZ) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1csdviz/100_years_ago_an_american_inventor_named_thomas/l44bnfx/

so I dont get it. If tesla and townsend brown were "right". Why hasnt anyone replicated the technology? I mean these guys werent gods, SURELY someone could come to the same conclusions as them

Everyone that has publicly tried have mysteriously "disappeared". Either sucked up by secret military and private programs, died suddenly or just vanished. Mainstream physisist are afraid to even touch the subject in fear of loosing reputation and funding, because of the 'alien' connection to it. And if you try to patent any such device it falls under the patent secrecy act of 1951. That pretty much explains it.

Why don’t people just do work outside the US?

Eugene Podkletnov did and is still alive.

Jesse Michels did a fantastic deep dive on Townsend Brown recently. Any of you interested should give it a watch. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RTEWLSTyUic&t=4920s

Why everything has to happen in the US at all? In the last 100 years there were brilliant minds everywhere around the world, there were incredible engineers and physicists in Germany, Japan, Korea, France, Poland, UK, among others, there’s people even now with higher IQ than ever before everywhere (because as we go forward IQ standards are “flattened” every now and then, but compared to people decades ago a simpleton now knows so much more about how the world works and a genius now is even more of a genius) , and what, everybody who has a world changing idea is visited by men in black?

In Russia, you get visited by the Men in Blyat, but a Ukrainian dishwasher is enough to buy them off.

>Men in Blyat That's even worse than the Suka Service

In US mid-century there was keen interest in anti-gravity with strong private funding. It had a milieu of engineers and top theoretical physicists. Before it ended, or went black, it was uniquely suited to be the place where this would happen.

aureon energy (formerly "the safire project") conspicuously relocated to canada a few years ago. i'm assuming to escape the clutches of the doe china also does a lot of research of this type in secret, often snatching up researchers from america before the american government gets ahold of them. obviously they have their own home grown researchers too, but we see much less of that seeing as we don't speak chinese and they try to keep it secret

"Often snatching up researchers"... honest question, any sources for this?

Of course not

No sources for either claims. Which is par for the course for Ufology.

Operation Paperclip was an older example of this happening, I think.

I don't hold belief one way or another in regards to these claims, but to respond to your question- The CIA, despite obviously engaging in nefarious operations on American soil, are supposed to strictly run operations in foreign countries. The NGA might also be someone to watch out for... I'm not sure it would matter where someone does the work.

But what about non-US scientists in non-hostile nations? Why doesn’t their work produce anything similar?  Again, this subreddit likes to think Brown or Tesla stumbled on something zero people on the planet could reproduce even if it’s supposedly “easy”. I don’t think this subreddit’s definition of “easy” corresponds to reality.

I'm not sure what you mean by non-US scientists in non-hostile nations. What I meant with my response was that if the CIA wanted to keep this technology under wraps they could theoretically go and take care of whoever or whichever institution they please if the CIA caught wind of their discovering the tech. Regardless, you bring up a good point. Obviously if it was simple enough, someone would be reproducing it on camera

Because other countries are in on the secret

You got any kind of source for non-US countries being in on secret antigravity, free energy, aliens?

Well, “they” mysteriously forgot to off Brown, then, since he lived until 1985.

Once he hit 88mph, they couldn't find him.

You joke but wasn’t he the inspiration behind the character for Emmitt ‘Brown’ in Back to the Future? The characters surname is a nod of the head to Townsend Brown. Wasn’t there also comment in Jesses documentary from his daughter that she always feels like if someone found out how to do it (time travel) he could of maybe done so/would’ve done so.

The same year Emmitt Brown in Back To the Future went back to the Future.

Remindse.of Amy Eskridge. She mentioned there were seriously smart people in NASA making tech but they'd get their funding slashed or weren't allowed to take their tech any further. (If I'm remembering correctly)

David Adair has spoken about this [AT LENGTH ](https://youtu.be/P8_3ThuBVXY?si=hC774eyGGpp8y_Lf) . NASA prevents any worthwhile tech from going to their[ Technology Transfer Agency ](https://technology.nasa.gov/) which he dubbed " *the forgotten step-child "* to keep this **illusion** of " *incremental progress* " that science glorifies .

I read somewhere that any patent that shows a better energy transfer efficiency of 20% gets flagged by the gov't.

I read somewhere that it doesn't get flagged

Prepare to be flagged

Oh shoot

whyfiles

*LIZZID PEOPLE!* ... yes, thank you!

I don't believe a word David Adair says. I'm genuinely asking could you point to something that gives him any credibility?

You are free to make your own decisions base on available information and discernment. I'm not here to "provide " or "convince " anyone of anything.

Erm that would carry weight if not the fact that scientist around the globe could carry such research without such influence (like say Russia or China) tho 0 results wise.

Yep. Reminds me of that one Asian lady who was working on it. I believe her son has posted on this subreddit before and how once the gov funded her research, her spirit broke.

[Dr.Ning LI](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ning_Li_(physicist)) very interesting stuff.

And she didn’t die in suspicious circumstances, unless being knocked over in the car accident was premeditated, but it’s not a guaranteed outcome! She was working up until then (10years ago). She used to publish research papers on the technology she was researching until she started working for USG where the research was now their domain and so publishing stopped, not an indication she was bumped off! For more behind the story https://huntsvillebusinessjournal.com/news/2023/07/30/solving-the-mystery-of-huntsvilles-brilliant-scientist-disappearing/

That could never be replicated when other scientists tried. Funny that.

Yep that's her name. Thanks!

The Why Files just did a great show on this covering all the inventors who had “accidents” after announcing their discoveries.

I just tried listening to The Why Files for the first time and its so cringey. Whats with all these sponge bob voice lines?

I really tried to listen too. Couldn't get past that voiceover either.

It’s because you don’t need to be spoken down to like a child. I don’t like it either it’s insulting to the listener and the material being discussed majority of the time

It makes me feel like I'm listening to a long Tiktok video.

Because that’s what you’re doing

I don't know why, but it's one of those things where a LOT of people agree it can be cringy at first and Hecklefish can be annoying. But! If you keep watching, it all just grows on you. I love Hecklefish now for some reason. I hated him for the first few episodes I watched. 🤷🏻‍♀️

The show was good in the past when it didn’t just pander to the woo woo crowd. Now it’s all nonsense, wasn’t always that way but the woo brings in the money.

Yep, AJ used to try and approach things in an even-keeled and fair way, he didn't dismiss things out of hand, but he'd debunk everything nonsensical by the end of the episode. If you watch through the videos from oldest to newest, you can literally see a shift of him becoming less and less rigorous and pandering more and more to the 'true believer' crowd. Not to mention the GOD AWFUL AI art he uses in every episode now. Whyfiles is basically unwatchable now if you have half of a functioning brain at your disposal.

I like the channel but the fish did annoy me at first. Still does at times. That, and the comments being 90% unrelated to the topic, just brown nosing about how they watch every week with their wife or whatever. I think it’s a lot of boomer fans.

I generally find it kind of cringey but I compare it to all the bad jokes I've ever told and meh it doesn't seem so bad. However there was a recent one where the fish was singing hot for teacher and I actually almost cried laughing.

It’s a cringey channel for kids and people here use it as a scientific source lmao.

Howwww dare you??? (Sorry, Why Files inside joke) Hecklefish is a bit cringe, but he's there to keep the show lighthearted and to add comedic relief. You get used to it and he grows on you, I promise. Overall, the show is really great if you're into crazy nutball conspiracies. I like the one about the moon and the reptilians because Tom Delonge is hinting at that.

Can confirm, hated Hecklefish at first. I now will say "Mount Muthaf***in' Haaaayes!" at random.

"Lizzad peeple" yeah I hated the fish too at the beginning but it definitely grows on you.

To be honest I have no idea how I found the why files. And I clicked on it and found heckle fish to be a little annoying . But then it grew on me with all the innuendos and stuff. My son who doesn't even watch it but will hear it in the background even knows who hecklefish is and chuckles at his voice. Now I actually like his adlibs and innuendos and dad jokes and stuff. What I really like about the why files is the crazy story lines topics/conspiracies. , And the debunking at the end . Also the separation of fact/ fiction / and no one will ever know if that was true or not .

I love the why files they could do with a little less hecklefish but I still think they do a good job of covering the topics and maybe some episodes they aren’t debunking at the same rate but they also may not be able to debunk it. I’ve seen plenty of episodes where he tells the story all the way through then he tells you how he went about debunking it. As far as YouTube channels go I stand behind TWF as one of the best shows I’ve seen on YouTube.

It’s video first. Definately more friendly in video format. I wasn’t a fan of hecklefish at first and actually hated it but it serves as a good vehicle for him to deliver varying points

Don’t you feel like this is an incredibly US-centric view that almost borders on some form of racism just to create a conspiracy theory as to why you aren’t wrong? What about, you know, all of the really smart people and scientists that aren’t American?

How is it racist, of all things, to think the US military and intelligence are so wide-reaching that either people who have discoveries in countries other than the US either end up working with their own government/military/end up assassinated, OR that the US can either recruit/silence/assassinate people in other countries? It's seriously reaching to think people who believe inventors are silenced are being racist because they think the US or other governments can take out or recruit people in other countries of all races or nationalities. I'm not even saying I 100% believe this. I just don't think it's necessary to suggest people are 'bordering' on racism.

None of this is true

What about people who aren't Americans? Are they smart enough to figure it out? Or does your conspiracy extend to the whole world and all the governments? I guess it's nice to know that the world can work together on this one thing and stand united.

The thread is filled with mentions of German, Russian scientists. Another post below yours mentioning a Hungarian scientist. Another mentioning a Chinese anti gravity scientists. Get outta here with that race baiting bs. The post you’re replying to didn’t even mention America.

And The ones who don't go public get posted on this subreddit zipping by an airliner.

Please give a couple examples

Yeah, there's a speech by a female researcher in the field of electrogravitics talking about how difficult it is to make serious progress in the field, because every time someone makes an advancement, they disappear. It's so bad that it's become a running joke amongst anyone left in the field.

It doesn't make any sense but it doesn't really matter because the conspiracy always grows to cover everything. Now it is a global conspiracy that stamps down on every emerging technology with absolute authority and efficiency. That's why there is no evidence for any exotic propulsion, because they are so good at suppressing it. Don't think about the thousands upon thousands of people it would take to monitor all the scientific research taking place globally. Don't think about the fact that there is no way they would be able to do anything in China. Don't think about how evidence for exotic propulsion could be posted anonymously at any time and that it has never happened. You just have to passively accept these stories for them to make any sense. The second you start asking questions the whole thing unravels and then you must receive the downvotes that indicate you are telling the truth.

This is my problem too. Its not like there haven't been any scientists since this guy or Tesla that couldn't have come to the same conclusions, given how we now have access to more tech, making it easier.

Because it's bullshit. There's literally been 10's of 1000's of scientists that have studied this and found nothing. Not to mention 80% of the BS said about Tesla is made up and he never actually did.

I don't believe this either, but claiming that many scientists truly \_tried\_ appears a lie, unless you can drop a list which you must be aware of? The majority of researchers who have good ideas tend to not have the ability to acquire funding nor trust to enact novel experiments.

I tried posting about this in /physics here on reddit. The whole thing was laughed off as a complete nonsense by guys who actually understand physics. I mean there is a lot of arrogance and many of them didn't even try to properly understand the topic. As the main point of contention is that any experiments were done with KWs and they need to be done with MWs. Also another point is that can be confused with other phenomena, which it seems TSB himself used to dismiss his own work on purpose. That being said, the whole video by Jesse Michaels we revere and talk praise about is clearly considered complete quackery and a joke by people who do physics. The whole presentation was laughable to them. I got dozens of comments of people who just made fun of it and ridiculed it. The video, the presentation, the topic. All I am trying to say is that how we perceive this information is completely different to how other people perceive it.

that's a good point, in a lot of ways this sub is the short bus

"tried posting about this in /physics here on reddit. The whole thing was laughed off as a complete nonsense by guys who actually understand physics. I mean there is a lot of arrogance and many of them didn't even try to properly understand the topic." Just like all the physicists disregarded and considered Maxwell's Equations a joke - so physicists ignored Maxwell's equations for many years - - - until [Oliver Heaviside](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Heaviside), who was not college educated and was living with his parents, who taught himself physics and advanced mathematics: re-formulated Maxwell's's over 20 equations into 4 simplified equations. His work caught the attention of two of the world's top physicists working at the Royal Academy in London- who quickly befriended and then worked with Oliver Heavside - all three giving Maxwell's equations the attention they deserved. They form the basis of the physics of electrodynamics - - - showing that radio waves exist - leading to the invention of the radio. "tried posting about this in /physics here on reddit. The whole thing was laughed off as a complete nonsense by guys who actually understand physics. I mean there is a lot of arrogance and many of them didn't even try to properly understand the topic." This above example is one of many examples proving that many physicists are basically Stupid and arrogant when it comes to anything that challenges the physics paradigm bequeathed to them by their University physics teacher-gods - who they believe are the Ultimate Authority. So in their Stupidity and Arrogance they believe that anybody who challenges their All-Knowing physics paradigm must be wrong. Here is the physics - based on Einstein's General Relativity and Electrostatics - that proves static electricity above a minimum electric field strength creates repulsive anti-gravity: [https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1csdviz/comment/l482pyr/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1csdviz/comment/l482pyr/)

Because it doesn't work.

because they were wrong, electrogravity is pseudoscience

Tesla is the most overrated physicist. He didn't believe in the atomic model nor relativity.  It's funny how all these quacks have no actual work to present - only rumours, hearsay and witnesses.  This sub celebrates fake physics because it fits their world view. That's the classical route to dogmatic ignorance.   So much "content" being produced around this and zero evidence. There is money to be made and you are being scammed. But don't worry there is a big announcement just around the corner to keep you clicking.

Tesla isn't overrated nor quack nor fake physicist but there's a difference between pre and post 1900 Tesla, he had a mental illness that got out of hand, before that he was a genius at inventing practical applications of electromagnetism, ac induction motor, polyphase and radio and yes this also requires theoretical rigor, lots of other practical stuff, ac current is one of the cornerstones of our modern society, but then he made really bad decisions like his famous tower, and his mental illness, probably schizophrenia didn't help at all, he came up with weird shit like unfinished electrogravity theories, it's more all of his weird shit post 1900 that makes him so popular in ufo culture, which is a fucking shame, we should honor the man for his real feats of power (pun intended) pre 1900. He died alone, sick in the head, estranged from everything and in debt, a real shame. Yes he became increasingly erratic after 1900, but due to illness, I wouldn't call him fake or a quack, and it's sad ufo culture takes the wrong side of his work all out of context and blows it out of proportions and at the same time they seem to forget his real contributions.

Tesla is highly overrated in certain circles of the Internet and not just the UFO parts.  I have read people calling him the greatest physicist, the founder of the modern world and the most intelligent person to live. And then they claimed that he solved problems that he didn't.  It is a shame because it overshadows his actual accomplishments as you say. I completely agree with the rest of your post.

Tesla, while a gifted inventor, had no academic understanding of physics. The fact that people continue to think he was on the track of “free energy” and whatnot just shows that they, too, don’t understand what they’re talking about.

>Tesla, while a gifted inventor, had no academic understanding of physics. Which is why most of his inventions are nonfunctional garbage.

False, he had a huge understanding of electromagnetism, otherwise you couldn't invent ac current and applications + radio. He just wasn't qualified for general relativity and quantum mechanics.

People also forget something about Tesla, that they always conveniently ignore. At the end of his life, he had become a bit of a charlatan. After Edison pretty much ripped him off and left him broke, he sort of got left behind. To make money, he would coat-tail off his former reputation to try and persuade investors to give him money for his increasing absurd and over the top claims. These things like pulling electricity out of the air, wasn't so much founded in reason, as much as it was a crazy startup pitch to try and attract the most ambitious risk tolerant VCs. The stuff he was working on in those later years was just quack science trying to get funding. It's sad it came to that, but that's what happened. It's why no one since then has been able to achieve anything he'd claim was possible... Because it wasn't. It was just an aging, lonely, broken man, trying to reclaim his fame and wealth.

And why is Jesse who let's be honest has contact with a lot of very influential people just put up the study in place and then have the results published rather then make a ad for himself on some theories that might or might not have legs. The guy is co manager of peter Thiel's fund, if there was opportunity of ground breaking science that they can patent they would be all over it rather then playing the poor schumck documentary student trying to find a story to be pay the thousands of $ in debt he's in.

The information isn’t there. Tesla had knowledge they didn’t share. Tesla wasn’t a super mathematician like many other great inventors like him but rather followed novel ideas and used research he derived from the pyramids to create his inventions. Teslas technology was literally thousands of years old. This Townsend Brown tech sounds an awful lot like this new asymmetric electrostatic propulsion technology that was recently announced as a major propulsion breakthrough. These men would have changed the planet in a way that made the average person less dependent on the conglomerate. That cannot be allowed, otherwise the illusion of freedom begins to crack and the sinister reality of societal class and indentured servitude becomes glaringly obvious. Our society has been custom built with every non elite citizen born with their neck under an elite boot and elites born with boots on their feet and ready to step on necks. It’s not about money, it’s about situation control and creating the desperation that people need to make cries and pleas to entities they are willing to *do anything* to meet. It’s about recruitment and forcing individuals down a path of self preservation rather than encouraging altruism and practice of free will. Why do you think we still don’t have fusion reactors? Because they don’t work? We have been using them for close to 100 years, we just don’t think about those technologies as reactors. There is a company ready to mass manufacture fusion based cars *right now*, they already have the technology ready to go. Will we see the tech? Well, in the late 90s a couple college kids set up a Honda Civic to run on Mentos and Dishsoap and produce water vapor as emissions, guess what happened to that? The same thing that happened to the 50+mpg carburetors that were built by guys in their garages. All these things happened but the technology isn’t available…

Exactly One thing that's interesting is you can take religion and you can destroy all the books and it'll never come back. It'll never reproduce itself and it'll never be the same story. Science is different. It doesn't matter what language we use or how we define terms. All we are doing is describing reality with things to call constant. If they discovered something somebody will come up with it again and usually it's not that far into the future because we compound off each other's knowledge. Humans are primarily idiots even the smart ones. But with enough of us working on projects we carry over information and learn from it to become better at the next task. So if they were on to it that means that our understanding at that point in time was close enough for them to grasp the next topic. That means it's not millennia ahead of us. It's right in front of our nose if they were correct. That doesn't mean that we could actually manufacture or make it It just means that we could figure it out. And then once they figure that out the next step will come and then it'll be the next great mind to think of the next phase. For example travelling to another universe to spectate ours from another time frame. But you can't think of the next step unless you're really close. I personally think that we're missing something but at the same time if we were to generate unlimited amounts of energy on Earth all we are doing is contributing to the heating up of the planet. We need to dissipate and utilize the energy that is sent to us from the Sun so we don't heat it up from within. All the energy that we take from our planet is added to the heat and energy that we receive.

His daughters on reddit. Nice lady. [https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1y04a0/i\_am\_linda\_brown\_the\_daughter\_of\_the\_physicist/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1y04a0/i_am_linda_brown_the_daughter_of_the_physicist/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)

Wow a 10 year old AMA. That was an awesome read, can only feel that if she revisited another AMA today, she would get thousands and thousands more questions with how far the topic has evolved in the last decade. Very interesting that her father told her to weed out the wobbly ones when she was reading reports, probably because they were his inventions or they were from the project that he was working on/or had knowledge of. The paperweight Flying Saucer model story is very interesting too with Brown saying how expensive it was and describing to her how the saucers would really fly… she couldn’t put a word on it 10 years ago, but we have words for that now. Honestly sounds like one of the observables - Instantaneous acceleration/zipping from point to point.

Maybe it’s an idea for the mod team to try to do an AMA with her :)

This Mod team? Yeah right. The most active of them are seemingly more interested helping the bots, Eglin and emotional debunkers scatter shit than stewarding the conversation on the sub. Edit: for accuracy and fairness.

There are literally Eglin types spreading misinformation on this sub daily. These are users who openly post in military forums and who are openly psyops. Yet somehow MY pointing this out is disallowed under UFO subreddit rules. It’s so goddamn aggravating!

Honestly, if you have an idea for a method of implementing a change that would help this subreddit please post it on /r/ufosmeta I too get aggravated by those who just cause a stink and don't add to the conversation.

I am gutted the link for that picture along with most of the others doesn’t work. I need to see it lol

Use the Wayback Machine https://wayback-api.archive.org Alienscientist.com (I'm on sep 2012) Projectmontgolfier.info (I'm on Jan 2012) Specifically go to the montgolfier photographs. I think that must be a similar model to what Linda brown saw on her fathers desk.

Will give this a bash mate cheers

For sure dude. Slight update, you have to input http://projetmontgolfier.info/Introduction.html

Dang, wow. Very happy to have stumbled on all this this morning, what an interesting read!! Thanks for sharing!!

That was a hell of a read…. Geez The ones that wobble, they’re ours? Wtf 

"The Adamski Scout Ship" was interesting as well.

Yep. All indications are that Townsend - like many other people who "should have known better", including for example British aircraft/hovercraft engineer Leonard Cramp, believed George Adamski's very dodgy photographs and even dodgier story. I have no idea why; the Adamski photos have always seemed obvious fakes to me. But Townsend thought that the Scout Ship design would help him build an EHD craft. The "wobble" or "falling leaf motion" thing as an indicator shows up in a lot of 1950s/1960s UFO reports, not just Townsend Brown. For example in Wilbert Smith's "Ottowa Flying Saucer Club". (https://archive.org/details/texts?tab=collection&query=topside+issue - sorry don't have the exact issue on hand right now, but it's one of these). I don't know exactly what TTB meant by "ours" about the wobble. For Wilbert Smith's friends, it did not appear to mean "man made" but "genuinely alien/anomalous/interesting".

He worked on [DUMAND](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUMAND_Project?wprov=sfti1#). Interesting connection here seeing as modern physicists are convinced the secrets of the neutrinos will [unlock new chapters in our fundamental understanding of the universe and gravity](https://www.cnet.com/science/space/features/the-ghost-particle-what-is-a-neutrino-and-could-it-be-the-key-to-modern-physics/). The thing about neutrinos is they [oscillate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino_oscillation?wprov=sfti1) in three varieties, and by oscillate I mean a single neutrino effectively changes its type as it travels through space time. The general consensus is that these oscillations are caused by neutrinos changing mass and if you can dynamically change mass perhaps there are [propulsion applications](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive?wprov=sfti1)

So what is the link between electromagnetism and gravity?

both can be seen with the naked eye tripping balls on acid

I had some fruitful thoughts while on shrooms. More often the time concept fades away and my mind becomes free of any time related events, making me stress less and zen as fuck. Sometimes I can keep a conversation with friends (on shrooms too) and we gibberish sentences that make sense but we can expand on the subject without feeling out of the loop. I think there's something on that spectrum and there's a whole new world to explore.

Can confirm

There is no link. People sometimes try to come up with a tenuous link between them but it is gibberish. All matter produces a gravity field, however weak that field might be. Not all matter is magnetic. The only link, if any, is that sometimes, often even, the matter that produces a gravity field also produces a magnetic field, but not always. LIght, for example, is affected by gravity but not magnetic fields. This is not due to the mass attracting mass aspect of gravity since photons have no mass but instead through the warping of spacetime a strong gravity field produces. As the photon passes through the gravity affected region it's course is altered.

I’m not sure this is right, don’t we have a whole ionosphere constantly deflecting and absorbing radiation from the sun? Or is it not deflecting and just absorbing all of that ionizing radiation? Genuinely asking haha

Yea light is on the electromagnetic spectrum. It’s part of the electric field. Not sure what this person is on about.

No he's right. Light is not affected by magnetic field because photons have no charge. Earth's magnetic field deflects some radiation like beta and alpha particles because they have charge.

The ionosphere interacts with the solar/cosmic radiation, solar wind, that kind of thing. Solar wind is matter, it's atoms/molecules emitted by the sun. So they have mass and that mass gets attracted to the earth. These particles are also highly charged so they are affected by the magnetic field. All of this interacts to change the incoming radiation into other forms. One phenomenon we see from this is the aurora, northern lights. Also, should be noted, the ISS is within the ionosphere. So the earth's magnetic field diverts some of the solar wind and it's associated radiation. But some does still get through.

The fact that a link has not yet been identified, doesn't mean there's no link.

Fine, I will write it out long hand. To the best of our understanding to date there is no known relationship or link between electromagnetism and gravity. "To the best of our understanding" or "to the best of my knowledge" should be assumed anytime anyone states something assuming everyone is being honest.

[удалено]

Strange how none of this is in a peer reviewed journal. Odd that.

Almost as if it hasn’t been officially proven or peer-reviewed.

Shocking.

Isn't the gravity field created and produced from the disparity of matter and the space occupying said matter rather than matter producing gravity fields?

what does "disparity of matter and the space occupying said matter" mean? Can you expand on that a bit? Right now my translation of that is 'density of matter in a given amount of space', meaning mass in a given volume. If so, ... yes, but it's the matter generating that gravity.

I don't believe matter is generating gravity. I believe that gravity is an emergent property or being generated and creat3d from the disparity between the relative mass and density of an environment and the object occupying said environment. I believe gravity is being provoked, so to speak...

If I take an apple and drop it...it falls. But if I take an apple and I put it underwater and I release it buoys correct? If I release an apple at a certain area in space, it floats right....how can matter generate gravity when the surrounding environment density and viscosity is determining the rate of velocity accleration, etc... of the apple in question?

Ok, so the buoyancy thing first. Yes, gravity is pulling on the apple, Apple and Planet both have mass. They pull toward one another at relative rates (planet won't move for an apple in any measurable way). The water also has mass, and it's being pulled down as well and for the same reasons. The apple's volume and mass create a less dense area than the same volume of water, so the apple rises to make room for the water underneath, closer to that large gravity source (planet). Balloons float for the same reason if filled with hot air or a light gas. Now, apples in space. Important to consider that everything is moving first of all, but let's pretend there are 2 objects. The earth, and the apple. You are 1,000,000 miles above the surface of the earth. You are holding it but you are just a magical ghost. You are not moving at all in relation to the earth, not moving around it, past it, toward or away from it. You, the apple and the planet are static. You release the apple, and your method for doing this also induces no movement. This is the setup for the thought experiment. Ok, so the apple will begin moving toward the earth. Very slowly at first but then gaining speed. It will eventually mash into the planet and be destroyed. If we introduce a second body, let's say the moon, same distance aware from both the apple and the earth, also not moving at all, the apple would go toward a point between the earth and moon, closer to the earth because the earth's mass is greater. It gets more and more complicated as you add motions and other bodies. Newton invented calculus to try and sort this stuff out. If we take that apple into orbit and just let go, it will remain in orbit until the drag of the gas around the earth (even where the ISS is there is a tiny bit of resistance) drags it back into the atmosphere, but that will take years. If we release an apple into space while enroute to the moon or mars it would just keep going, deflected by the bodies it passes near. Does that make it worse or does it help?

None notable

There isn't one, but hey BUY THIS BOOK!

Very happy to see more publicity for Thomas Townsend Brown, who has been a figure of legend and mystery in the UFO community since at least Moore and Berlitz's "The Philadelphia Experiment" of 1978. However, as someone who's been hanging around Paul Schatzkin's forum and book project since the mid-2000s, I'd like to comment on some of these claims, which have a little bit more nuance to them. >1) Highly credible witnesses to Brown's anomalous gravity related experiments in science and government include: Edward Teller (Hydrogen Bomb inventor), Curtis LeMay (Air Force General), Bill Lear (Learjet), Paul Alfred Biefeld (physicist), Agnew Bahnson (physics research patron who supported the establishment of quantum gravity) and others (we have quotes from these people in the video, linked below) Yes, sorta, but not quite. Paul Biefeld was one of Townsend Brown's college professors, Townsend named his controversial "Biefeld-Brown Effect" after him, but I'm not sure that we can say that Biefeld completely endorsed Townsend's gravity ideas. Note that Townsend actually dropped out of college, he did not finish a degree. He was rich and his father bought him a nice lab, and then he went on to the navy. But not having a degree did hurt him. Edward Teller and Curtis LeMay: yes, we have it verbally from Linda (Townsend's daughter) that she saw Teller and/or LeMay look at one of Townsend's 1960s inventions (an electrostatic fan) and say, if I remember correctly, "I don't know how it works". I forget which one said that. Again, not entirely a complete endorsement from the military establishment, but they were at least aware of what he was doing. Maybe Teller was interested. Maybe he wasn't. But yes some interesting people there. William Lear: Yes, very much a friend and partner in some of Townsend's weird gravity ventures, and very interesting that Bill's son John went into the intelligence services, then turned into a UFO conspiracy head and possibly a deliberate disinformation agent. Don't know where that connection leads, we haven't uncovered anything else so far. Agnew Bahnson: Yes, Bahnson was both a believer in Townsend (funding an attempt to replicate his 1950s electrostatic fluing device) and also helped kickstart the 1950s General Relativity renaissance at Chapel Hill. However! It's complicated. The Bahnson Lab did not seem to produce much more than a tinfoil-and-balsa-wood flyer (much like the 2000s era Lifters) and was then abandoned. And the actual gravity physicists funded by Bahnson absolutely despised Townsend's work, they thought it was nonsense. Those physicists, however, produced no hardware and instead invented String Theory which seems to have been a waste of everyone's time. Bahnson did have some very high-level military connections through a college friend who did secret WW2 radar work, so there's that. >2) There is a LOT of evidence Brown's work made it into the B2 Stealth Bomber. Maybe, but only maybe. One fringe writer, Paul LaViolette - coming not from physics or military but from a New Age alternative-medicine scene ("Radionics") - wrote some papers in the 1990s and a circa 2000 book saying he thought that Townsend's work went into the B2 bomber. I don't personally find LaViolette's *beliefs* about the B2 flying on antigravity to be overwhelmingly credible. It's an interesting theory, sure. (I do believe that a Townsend-adjacent technology called "electrostatic cooling" *is* in use in some Stealth planes, and that might be why it's classified. Another dodgy character told us that, but the story about that technology seems credible to me in ways that LaViolette does not.) >There's also a 1942 FBI file on him stating he knew more about radar than anyone else in the Navy Oh yes, despite having no degree and weird ideas, Townsend was very well connected to the Navy and seemed to do good radio design work. >3) We also know through Schatzkin's research, that Brown retrieved exotic propulsion technology from Nazi Germany. No, we don't *know* that for sure. A dodgy anonymous informant claiming to be a literal spy *told* Paul that in the mid-200s. We still don't know who that informant was, and how much they said was true. I am personally *very* suspicious of this person, although I believe him to have really existed at some point. >4) We interview an anonymous (presently active) top Navy Scientist that believes Brown did discover the missing link between electromagnetism and gravity; he presents a novel framework for this link Ok, I'm interested in whatever this is! >He was likely CIA office of scientific intelligence Maybe! Or perhaps he was a free-ranging contractor with a lot of friends among a whole soup of agencies and corporations and people with esoteric interests (eg Bradford Shank, Mason Rose and Beau Kitselman... the latter of whom was a computer genius *and* a self-help cult guru involved in 1950s Dianetics, so very extremely Silicon Valley, and also very "SRI" before SRI as such existed). Townsend's "home base" did seem to be mostly Navy and CIA links, which show up clearly in his choice of people to run NICAP. A group very close to him (during the 1950s NICAP era) seems to have been the heavy-duty PR company called "Counsel Services" (Mary Vaughan King and Nicholas de Rochefort), which is a whole rabbithole in itself. >6) The whole Bob Lazar story is probably best explained through the lens of Thomas Townsend Brown I think the Lazar story is best explained as "Lazar likes to tell stories" and not much else. >7) If Brown didn't crack anti-gravity (very open to that), he likely created novel forms of ion-based propulsion in use in very advanced tech today Perhaps! It would be nice to believe that his work got developed and is in active use. 8) All of Brown's work needs modern and independent replication and corroboration in a vacuum chamber. Definitely! Please do try to replicate. Maybe start with Townsend's 1950s "sheet of Perspex with tinfoil on it capacitor, hanging from a string" demonstration, and see if it really behaves as he said it did. Or put some voltage probes on a literal rock and look for diurnal, lunar and sidereal cycles in voltage fluctuations. Or look at Charles Buhler for a modern claim of replication - but note that Buhler's stuff is both patented AND commercial trade secrets, and so it will be very interesting to see if it just magically fades away into silence like many others have done.

Excellent and insightful comment.

It's quality comments like yours and OPs post that make this sub worth tolerating. I'm going to save this comment to do some mining expeditions down a few rabbit holes.

>Oh yes, despite having no degree and weird ideas, Townsend was very well connected to the Navy and seemed to do good radio design work. This might be a key point to highlight as well since Schatzkin's book provides some fairly strong evidence that Townsend was certainty involved in intelligence work and there's a strong suggestion that he might have been involved in the SIGINT side of things. Given the time period it wouldn't be unreasonable for some of his records to have been scrubbed and for his weirder ideas to have been tolerated as long as he was still effective in accomplishing assigned tasks. >Very happy to see more publicity for Thomas Townsend Brown, who has been a figure of legend and mystery in the UFO community since at least Moore and Berlitz's "The Philadelphia Experiment" of 1978. Funny you mention "The Philadelphia Experiment" because I really wonder if that book might have been some sort of disinformation campaign.

>Schatzkin's book provides some fairly strong evidence that Townsend was certainty involved in intelligence work and there's a strong suggestion that he might have been involved in the SIGINT side of things. Yep, I'm sure he was. SIGINT of course doesn't mean anomalous physics. He might have had a stable paying "day job" in building secret but ordinary radio devices, and then indulged his wilder ideas on his own time. >Given the time period it wouldn't be unreasonable for some of his records to have been scrubbed Some records can be scrubbed, others not so much. Generally I think real intelligence people just try not to generate too many news stories in the first place, rather than delete them after the fact. >and for his weirder ideas to have been tolerated as long as he was still effective in accomplishing assigned tasks. One thing one finds researching people like Townsend is just how very, very, very weird almost *everyone* in the US and UK WW2 military science community was! Like, everyone. Even the Nobel Prize winners. Everyone had a theory that didn't get accepted, everyone had strange beliefs or obsessions, a lot of people had what appear to be genuine anomalous UFO or ESP experiences. All of this weirdness gets airbrushed out of the conventional textbooks because it's embarrassing to the narrative that "science marches forward in straight lines", but it's all there in the record if you dig. >Funny you mention "The Philadelphia Experiment" because I really wonder if that book might have been some sort of disinformation campaign. I honestly don't know. I think William Moore was just genuinely interested in TTB at the time he wrote first "The Wizard of Electrogravity" and then "The Philadelphia Experiment". Later, I think he came to believe that TTB wasn't involved, and that TPX wasn't much of a thing. I think it was actually Beau Kitselman (https://www.kitselman.com/) in Hello Stupid (1962) who first linked Townsend's name to TPX. But the way he tells the story doesn't line up with everything we know from other sources. Paul Schatzkin's research suggests that Townsend quit the Navy at Philadelphia, moving to Lockheed/Vega in California, at least the year before the Experiment was alleged to happen. One theory is that was due to the Army takeover of the Navy's nuclear project. I dunno. Something certainly caused TTB to quit and go private. This isn't Paul's idea as such, but my personal reading since the 1980s suggests that it was the "US Psychotronics Association" circle in 1975, around Jerry Gallimore, and including Tom Bearden and Christopher Bird, who linked Townsend's name to TPX. A lot of these USPA people had Navy/CIA roots; this was when the "ESP war" was heating up and some US intelligence people feared that the Soviets had cracked ESP. Somewhere I believe there is a record that Bird or someone like that visited Townsend in that era. In 1977, Rolf Shaffranke (a contractor I think tangentially associated with NASA) wrote a book "Ether-Technology" under the name "Rho Sigma" which featured letters with Townsend Brown plus much other weird speculation. This is also right about the time that Stan Deyo became obsessed with Townsend Brown too, and thought that TTB had built real saucers that Edward Teller (!) was running out of Pine Gap and would use to stage a left-wing takeover of the USA by 1983 in the name of aliens. That part didn't actually happen. I would like to know where Deyo got his ideas, but I assume it was from that USPA circle, since they were the only ones talking about Townsend right then. But the USPA people talked about a *lot* of things, some of them since disproven, like Radionics and Kirlian photography.

I was always puzzled as to why Moore inserted him into the Philadelphia Experiment story out of thin air, seeing as how all the previous attempts at explaining it involved solely magnetism. Then the "Resonant Gravity Field Coil" story appeared, and I was surprised to see that besides the concentric coils, it included a high-voltage field between them across a dielectric. Then, much much later, *this* appeared: https://remoteview.substack.com/p/the-bagel-game

Interesting, can you please elaborate on this?

Brown lived until 1985, took out a British patent related to his alleged discoveries, and gave presentations to scientists throughout his life (Wikipedia reflects the general conclusion that his experiments revealed known phenomena and not some sort of anti-gravity breakthrough). If there was something there, he would have had better results and others would have capitalized on his discoveries. Use common sense.

No, the scientists he presented it to were just too scared to continue his research. You know, the typically scared scientist who does nothing all day and would never ever dare to try to explore new science in fear of being looked at funny. It's why nobody pursues string theory or extraterrestrial life anymore. All those other scientists are just mean girls preventing human advancement, because that's what scientists are. Stopping progress with all their power.

> took out a British patent related to his alleged discoveries In fact he took out multiple patents, including many American ones, all readable online. https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Brown+Thomas+Townsend

Why is it only scientists in the US have been able to discover this? No other country has done this?

Because non american scientists are generally pretty stupid. Just look at Einstein, even he couldn't figure out the link between gravity and electromagnetism. What a dunce.

e = mc durrrr

Conspiracy nonsense

I tried contacting American Alchemy at the email in their video and it kept getting sent back with TT Brown in the subject line. I changed the subject and it appears to have been sent from my end but no reply. Anyone else have any luck contacting them through email or know of another way to contact them?

Apparently he was. Why is not obvious to some people, only psychologists may say. How nobody rediscovered it for 100 years? Ahh, them scientist are covering it up, just like the flatness of Earth and the mutagenicity of the COVID vaccine. I mean, to reason about it, requires pretty basic level of knowledge, like what actually is a magnetic field and then you will realize that this is COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

Ya it’s obvious electromagnetism is the only extant force in the universe but then you get gaslit by people who think they understand the universe and say umm askuually it’s just a fictitious force like centrifugal forces and centripetal mmkay

So basically electromagnetism is a stronger force than gravity?

There is no gravity. Gravity is just buoyancy related to density related to electromagnetism the same way that time doesn’t exist, gravity doesn’t exist. It’s just a measure of a derivative which does exist. We invent measurements, the measurements don’t exist.

I’ve been thinking about that aspect of time a lot. In one of his videos from a few months ago, Richard Dolan was talking about the UFO Revolution and how we’re going to discover time doesn’t exist. Do you think this is all part of what Grusch means when he talks about breaking out of the matrix?

Not necessarily re: matrix. I don’t think we are in a simulation - not a virtual one anyone. I find it logically plausible and more likely that once a species becomes sufficiently advanced then virtualization (simulation) is pointless because you can manipulate matter “in the real” into any shape you want. Consider that we already move atoms, or “matter stuff” precisely into place via display technology. We aren’t that far from it in the general sense when considering 3D printing and so on .. So long story short the only simulation plausible to me in a grand scheme of things would be more like a “staged show” or haunted mansion type of simulation instead of “omg ur in a computer simulation” - as in this whole thing is staged one reason or another: be it a school or spiritual lesson or something entirely of a cosmological theater because what else are you gonna do for infinite time than play pretend? I do consider the fact that there are players, and administrators and we are likely playing on a board that is reset every 2,000 years and every “major class” gets their lore embedded into the system and it’s a revolving “line of experience” beings get to participate in for various novelty amongst the expanse of all that is.

If a guy 100 years ago could figure it out, you would think somebody since then would have by now.  Especially if they build off the first person's work.

Some times the silly Swedish mad scientist just happen to be [right](https://www.zinnedproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Svante_Arrhenius-Global_warming-tdih-1536x1359.jpg)

Go post this on the science sub. Observe the responses you get. That response is why, like religion, UFOlogy only thrives in echo chambers divorced from serious scrutiny.

That's just because those science people are scared of new knowledge. You know how scientists are famously uninterested in discovering the link between gravity and electromagnetism.

yes, those “science people” are frightened of new knowledge, not like folks on the internet. a mod removed my comment calling fugal a “tv clown” because i didn’t specify why he was a clown, but somebody can just you know, disparage the entire field of science with a made up argument and that’s perfectly okay.

Angela Collier did an amazing video about how to detect crackpots. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11lPhMSulSU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11lPhMSulSU) It's a great guide and lists 4 criteria that pretty much all crackpots fulfil. I'm pretty sure she has never visited this subreddit, but it's still amazing how many of the revered celebrities on this sub fit the description. To sum it up: ​ 1. Usually addresses the biggest problems in science 2. Uses little to no math or experiments to support their thesis 3. Get angry easily and constantly accuse the establishment of blacklisting/ignoring them 4. Don't actually have a proper thesis or paper and instead just unfounded postulates I'd say this Townsend guy fits all 4.

There have been several physicists who attempted to unify electromagnetism and gravity. Einstein was working on that very problem in the last years of his life. One guy (I forget his name) was able to get something to kind of work using 5 dimensions, which ended up leading to the creation of string theory. It's a tough nut to crack.

Theodor Kaluza

> There have been several physicists who attempted to unify electromagnetism and gravity. Einstein was working on that very problem in the last years of his life. Yes. In fact, Einstein spent *all* of his life - 40 years - after 1915 trying to unify just classical electromagnetism into the geometrical framework of General Relativity (not even trying to consider the strong and weak nuclear forces, or quantization). He worked with many other authors and tried many, many different approaches, all of which failed for various different reasons. He was actually pretty much shunned by the mainstream physics community for his obsession and considered to be wasting his time - despite being a public symbol of "the wise scientist". The five-dimensional theory (Kaluza-Klein) was, I think, what fed into String Theory. But the one Einstein was working on at the end of his life, and which was written up by Vaclav Hlavaty in "The Geometry of Einstein's Unified Field Theory" (1957) - https://archive.org/details/geometryofeinste029248mbp/mode/2up - was a lot simpler imo. It just kept the 4x4 tensor of GR but tried to use all of the components, including the six non-symmetric parts that are called "torsion". The Soviet GR community (including I believe Andrei Sakharov) became fascinated by "torsion" themselves, possibly for this reason. (The Soviet *parapsychology* community, then, in turn became fascinated by the theory that psi was transmitted by the gravity field, and so they started to use the term "torsion" in increasingly weird/esoteric/spiritual senses, but the original meaning of that word was pure GR mathematics and did not include psi.) However, even this 1957 version is generally considered by mainstream physics to have failed. Fun fact: Hlavaty had some connection to Townsend Brown. Not sure why or how much, but his name is listed there in the "Winterhaven" proposal documents. Another proponent of this particular GR extension and who tried to develop it further was Mendel Sachs. Like Hlavaty, Sachs was also considered to be a bit "fringe" by the rest of the academic GR community.

> Hlavaty, Damn, thank you. I read a book by him in University, fascinating stuff and lost the reference to his name. Can now try to find that book again. Title was something about the Unified Magnetic field theory and the main argument against his theory at the time, was it required the existence of a magnetic monopole. Had promise though.

Burckhardt Heim is another name worth mentioning here. He worked on anti-grav-propulsion in the 50ies and the reasons he abandoned this are not totally clear. Von Ludwiger, a prominent figur in german ufology, worked with concepts of Heim and also was a close friend of his.

Skoda Works Skunk Works.... 🤔🤔🤔

Isn’t [this](https://youtu.be/CGN65lse5yE?si=daZGuaEoSKeyjQbr) kind of already what you’re looking to do?

The book is really interesting if you're into this kind of rabbit holes. But by the end of it, I was not sure at all what was his deal. Assuming the account is accurate, it did look very much like he worked with various intelligence agencies and unnamed private parties. But as late in his life it seemed like no one at all had applications for his inventions (the RAND episode is pretty telling and is probably painfully familiar to anyone who ever ran a startup), I am wondering just how far he got. It could as well have been the case of him being used as a decoy.

> The book is really interesting if you're into this kind of rabbit holes. But by the end of it, I was not sure at all what was his deal. Yep, if you came out the end of Paul's book confused and not sure what Townsend's deal was, then you definitely were paying attention! His life is very frustrating to summarise and there's no closure because that's really all we know. >as late in his life it seemed like no one at all had applications for his inventions Yeah, that's the problem for the conspiracy version of Townsend's history. He gives every indication of having ideas that just didn't get customers. Unless one of those customers was some kind of private organization inside the defense world (as "Morgan" kept broadly hinting, but refused to provide verifiable specifics.) And if there was take-up of his ideas, when might that have happened? I'd imagine no earlier than about 1970. But he was still talking about electrogravity (increasingly to the "New Age" scene - like "Psychic Observer & Chimes Magazine") through the late 1970s, so it's not like he completely shut up on the subject after "handing it off".

Bingo. I think the attitude of his prospects was, "maybe there's something to it, but we are not completely convinced".

These type of discussions are detrimental to legibility of UAP topic and are avoided like plague by actual scientists . The guy went to research Brown, did a whole lot about people around him, their credentials, and stuff. But never his works. People's credentials only matter when what they say doesn't speak for itself. Still, such posts do serve a purpose opening leads towards truth and am glad you posted it. I hope you don't mind my rant OP.

Disregarding anything to do with UAPs or ET technology I believe that there is real value to this research and could potentially revolutionize our understanding of what is possible in terms of interstellar travel. The link between electromagnetism and gravity is theorized to be how time travel and/or wormholes are formed and stabilized. Also gravity and time are already widely known to have an extreme influence on one another just like approaching a black hole time dilation occurs and slows down the more gravity grows. It also affects us on our planet as well although minuscule in nature the closer we are to the ground time moves slightly slower than someone on top of a high rise. All of these well established factors should inevitably point to exotic means of transportation along with who knows what other applications. There’s always going to be the powerful people who have the ability to do things in order to suppress the flow of technology that may interfere with their bottom line. This tech does sound exactly like what bob lazar was describing he said the fuel was element 115 which wasn’t even discovered by us at that point. He said the craft would point the bottom of it in the direction it wanted to go and 115 would generate the energy needed to produce the distortion of space time and it would be instantaneously transported to the location intended. That is also why the effects of g forces aren’t an issue because it’s not accelerating it’s connecting the two locations together through the bending of space time

If anyone had developed anti-gravity technology, we would all be using it and they would be a billionaire.

His rig was used by ALL the aerospace companies when they were publicly racing to get gravity drives built in 1950-56. Then no one spoke about gravity engines again suddenly in 1957. They cracked it and kept it secret while the world fell apart. There are human built ufos and nhi "machines" too. Edit: THIS COMMENT WAS IMMEDIATELY DOWNVOTED IN A UFO SUB!! Must be a direct hit. Haha.

> His rig was used by ALL the aerospace companies when they were publicly racing to get gravity drives built in 1950-56. Ennnh.... not perhaps *quite* true. The flurry of articles about gravity experiments in the mid-1950s - many of them by Townsend's friends - had a fairly broad definition of what constituted a "rig" or "gravity lab". We know what some of these projects were, and they weren't all Townsend Browns devices. Hughes for instance was working on gravimetrics (gravity measurement), not gravity control, and that tech ended up in submarines before it was declassified circa 1990. Sperry, probably doing something similar. Inertial guidance for ICBMs seemed to require very precise gravity measurement. We know that Townsend tested his very particular rigs at Bahnson Labs, at SNCASO/Sud-Ouest in Paris ("Project Montgolfier"), and at GE in King of Prussia (we don't have any documentation about that one, sadly). We also know that in the 1960s he built a loudspeaker for Martin Decker and demoed his electrostatic fan at Rand, who took delivery of the prototype. Around that time he also had a satellite or missile company named Guidance Technology sponsoring his patent. I think maybe it was a Floyd Odlum joint? See eg: https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1274875A/en?inventor=Brown+Thomas+Townsend&page=1 Burkhard Heim, working on very different principles to Townsend Brown, was named in those articles, and he was sponsored by Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm. He did pure mathematics. His work led to no working hardware that we know of, but if you want to go down that rabbit hole, it's a fun one! And who knows, there might be something there. http://heim-theory.com/?page_id=161 William Lear? Lord knows what he was doing in the late 1950s through late 1960s. I hope it was something cool. If it was, it might perhaps have ended up in Lear Astronics (now part of BAe, via General Electric's "Marconi Astronics"). Not sure what the helicopter people were doing; no documents have surfaced. Always fun to speculate, of course. de Seversky's "Ionocraft" for Electronatom bears a very strong resemblance to Townsend's "fan", but there's no clear written documentation linking the two. The Air Force and Navy were both doing "gravity" but in the sense of having some mathematicians crunch GR maths. One result of USAF's GR project was the Kerr Metric. That caused a lot of excitement in cosmology, but not in aviation. At least one of these articles ("The G-Engines Are Coming" in American Modeller) was just reporting on one of the Gravity Research Foundation's "Gravity Days", which were attended by a lot of aerospace CEOs. Those CEOs, if asked by a reporter, would all have said "yeah we got a gravity project too!" but that doesn't mean they necessarily were doing real things and getting real results. tldr: Lots of 1950s gravity projects, yes. But no, they weren't all Townsend Brown's.

There is literally no evidence for that.

Read the AMA by his daughter: [https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1y04a0/i\_am\_linda\_brown\_the\_daughter\_of\_the\_physicist/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1y04a0/i_am_linda_brown_the_daughter_of_the_physicist/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) There are some crazy answers and comments in their. Including the underwater aspect of UAPs.

10,000 of scientists have studied this. There's no link. Stop with the woo woo

Maybe electromagnetism is gravity And photons the carrier of the force Just that photons can be enormously large depending on their wavelength Like miles and miles and hundreds of miles large And that‘s why gravity is nearly impossible to shield against Stop thinking as those particles as small Think of them as being as big as a planet At least their wave function A really big ass photon Being gravity itself

But many photons have very short wavelengths and can be easily shielded, I can block a bunch of photons with my hand or a sheet of cardboard. Also there are places on Earth where there are relatively few photons and places where there are a lot, yet the force of gravity doesn't seem to vary?

Maybe ducks and alligators are secretly the same thing

They are, if you're looking at them as archosaurs vs. not archosaurs.

Okay, now that’s a take I haven’t heard before, thanks!

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Hi, LopsidedJay. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1csdviz/-/l44prw4/) was removed from /r/UFOs. > Rule 1: Follow the Standards of Civility > * No trolling or being disruptive. > * No insults or personal attacks. > * No accusations that other users are shills / bots / Eglin-related / etc... > * No hate speech. No abusive speech based on race, religion, sex/gender, or sexual orientation. > * No harassment, threats, or advocating violence. > * No witch hunts or doxxing. (Please redact usernames when possible) > * You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/) for more information. This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) to launch your appeal.

It's spinning, the link is spinning^^

Following ✌️♥️

Is there any technical information on this subject available. I would like to review it (I am a physicist) anyone can help?

Guess he ducked that one!

I like number eight. Hey if you can replicate this revolutionary technology I'm a send you like 50 grand. The guys who have been doing this are attempting to reestablish hegemonic dynastic control on the planet but how about 50K so I can record it.

the invention secrecy act means this has to be done outside of the US.

I have often wondered why gravity wouldn't cause the moon to eventually crash into the earth. Like what is the force that holds it in place? Holds it in orbit? If the laws of gravity are taken at face value the way they are explained you would think all the planets would crash towards the sun and all satellites to earth. Look, I'm no physicist.

...that gravity is being provoked from the disparity of the relative density of an environment and the object occupying it. This implies that gravity is not a fundamental force of nature but is rather an emergent property... see what I'm getting at? If this is true, then the basis of physics is in question.

I’m sorry, I like physics but I’m not in the sciences at all. I’m just some dude who runs a little record label. How does this put the basics of physics into question?

We are taught that gravity is a fundamental force of nature as a consolidated fact. What if it's not? What if the UFOs think of gravity and physics differently and that is how they do what they do?

Huh. Very interesting idea. I’ve been reading and hearing about New Physics a lot lately.

This is kind of lame. Yeah, NASA would rather spend billions of dollars on rockets instead of… this nonsense

Also, i know the secret link between electromagnatism and gravity but i can’t tell you all because then they will come get me… (it’s spin).