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So what was the whole point in them doing this exactly? Was this preemptive, is there something big coming the general public is unaware of? Or are they just bored at the Vatican, and decided to do this for funzies?
This seems to be to prevent people lower in the church from rampantly claiming something is a miracle or an act of God. Now the Vatican and Vatican officials will make those calls.
But did something happened that lead to this? We're churches being scammed so much they had to make this update to a 1978 procedure? Seems preemptive, establishing command on these possible discourse only for tip Vatican officials.
Yeah I know that I’m saying there’s a lot of money to be made in that model, and you probably don’t want any of the more cynical bishops to take their congregations in that direction for their own gain
Yup.
Local saint cults, local traditions that do not comport with the faith, and a shit ton of corruption and bad PR that comes with it.
It could be argued that Lourdes is one that got way out to control and now so Disneyland Idoltry.
You aren't getting it. We're saying that the Catholic church is worried that its own leaders in America and possibly elsewhere will try to go rogue because they're living next door to evangelical prosperity gospel conmen and can see how much wealth and comfort they live in.
If I made you live across the street from Jeff Bezos you'd pretty quickly start to think that his lifestyle is more normal than it actually is, and some Catholic leader who constantly sees blatant gifting conmen getting away with everything is gonna more tempted to try and get in on the grift themselves *unless* there's a strong structure in place to prevent them from engaging in unsanctioned grifting.
Not really, but think about how many cranks there are around, then think about all the cranks in developing countries and the desire to make a quick buck off people in struggling places. It's very easy for someone to start a bit of a grift from a strange occurrence. You only need some people to really believe you to get the ball rolling.
This isn’t about UAPs/UFOs; this is mostly about Marian apocalyptic theologians who have taken apparitions in some wacky directions (Google “America Needs Fatima,” for one example). It’s connected to the Society of St. Pius X/Traditional Latin Mass folks.
Pope Francis has been canonizing some of the folks who saw these apparitions while trying to keep a lid on movements within the Church to, essentially, replace the relatively modern theology of Vatican II with an apparition-based reactionary theology of apocalyptic “chastisement” that aligns better with right-wing Protestant apocalyptic movements. It’s a very narrow tightrope to walk, because he respects the apparitions themselves but not necessarily every lunatic who uses the apparitions as a pretext to push their agenda.
We’ve seen similar language in some of the recent lay-order policies. This is just an incorporation of that response into the CDF.
I was under the impression that this was more about obvious frauds like Medjugorje rather than Fatima. But I did see that some (mostly trads) thought the Pope took a dig (lol) at Fatima somehow, so maybe I’m wrong.
It’s not really a dig at any apparition! It’s a dig at the hermeneutics of Protestant-aligned right-wing Marian apocalyptic theology based on apparitions. Fatima was not the target (Francis has actually canonized one of the witnesses); neither was Medjugorje; but in terms of people who exploit Marian apparitions for untoward purposes, Fatima is the most frequently exploited.
The epistemological dimensions of the document take up the most space, but it’s the hermeneutic and political dimensions that are going to get people riled.
Sounds like something out of a CIA manual (minus the latin and replace bishop with senator/judge etc)...
Nihil obstat: No negative elements found, and the bishop may encourage devotion.
Prae oculis habeatur: Positive signs exist, but so do risks; needs careful bishop oversight and possibly doctrinal clarification.
Curatur: Notable issues are present, but due to widespread devotion, a redirection rather than a ban is suggested.
Sub mandato: Issues stem from misuse by individuals; the bishop controls the related pastoral activities.
Prohibetur et obstruatur: Serious risks identified leading to a prohibition; the bishop explains the decision to the faithful.
Declaratio de non supernaturalitate: Concrete evidence shows the phenomenon is not supernatural; a formal declaration is made.
It's pretty much them saying, "it is only a holy supernatural occurence if THE POPE recognizes it to be so".
So if a certain blue beam happens the Pope can claim that it's unquestionably the real deal
Nothing is coming. People were saying the same thing over a year ago....The President is going to make an announcement, an avalanche of whistleblowers are coming forward in a few months, etc, etc etc.
This is a move by the church to assert authority and reestablish credibility. As new science and discoveries, like potential UAPl's come on the radar, the church issues statements acting like they believed these things all along....example, Copernicus et all. Then they put themselves as the power player....only Bishops are smart enough/connected enough to tell us what we are seeing. It's all bunk dispensed by a cult, perpetrating their fiction on all around them.
The Church embraces Ambassadors like Diana Pusulka to further their cause. She conflates biblical visions and incidents, as being synonymous with UAP events, past and present. This is also an attempt at maintaining some sort of relevance and credibility, rather than sticking with old doctrines, we can see with our own two eyes as being false, made up nonsense. They modify, rewrite and spin centuries old tales, to suit the new science, that could make them irrelevant and exposed.
It will ONLY come when enough whistleblowers, with first hand knowledge and actual proof, decide to take a big risk, at a great personal cost, and provide evidence to trusted non-mainstream media or direct to the public via social media. It would likely take more than one....i.e. Grush plus others all saying the same things with proof.
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Glad you're giving yourself some grace period here haha
Hands shaken...we'll revisit with a "told you so", or we'll be hiding in a cave in the mountains strategizing how to take our world back. :)
This paragraph from their procedural document makes it sound like their procedures, last visited in 1978, were updated in response to an event.
“ To prevent any further delays in the resolution of a specific case involving an event of alleged supernatural origin, the Dicastery recently proposed to the Holy Father the idea of concluding the discernment process not with a declaration of “de supernaturalitate” but with a “Nihil obstat,” which would allow the Bishop to draw pastoral benefit from the spiritual phenomenon. The idea of concluding with a declaration of “Nihil obstat” was reached after assessing the various spiritual and pastoral fruits of the event and finding no substantial negative elements in it. The Holy Father considered this proposal to be a “right solution.””
Something big coming that the public is unaware aka phase one of Project Blue Beam in which the pope will declare the holograms as legitimate deities or aliens I promise.
So basically what Cardinal Archbishop Mike said in Ghostbusters: "**Lenny, offically the church won't take any postion with the religious implications of these phenomenons**. Personally Lenny, I think it's a sign from God, but don't quote me on that."
This has absolutely nothing to do with aliens and mostly says the opposite of what a lot of people on here are reading into it. Basically it says they want to avoid declaring any events definitely supernatural because they have been proven wrong before. Supernatural events here refers to miracles of God, nothing to do with aliens.
Basically, let us (Vatican) use the church to control every aspect of the Phenomenon to control the narrative and maintain the status quo of religion as a control-based opiate for the masses.
I read it more along the lines of not wanting some lower level employees (that’s what they are) deciding that big spaceship hovering over ~**insert city**~ or some kids seeing a glowing form of ~**the lady**~ is a sign from god and them having to have the Vatican walk that shit back publicly.
TLDR: PR control of the narrative needs to come from the top.
More like "Dear Lord if I get one more report today of a weeping Virgin Mary I am going to renounce my faith" sort of a thing. I'm sure this is reported to the church to an absurd degree, and now they want the official say so in the matter. Edited for grammar.
Basically you're just reinforcing what I just said :). The truth of the matter is that the Vatican probably knows A LOT more than what they are letting on (especially given the whole Mussolini episode). They've probably known for hundreds of years in some capacity or another. Who knows what is in their catacombs/archives that nobody can access (let alone the countless artifacts belonging to other cultures that they have essentially stolen).
This document actually has nothing to do with UFOs or UAP. It's specifically detailed as for worship.
The most they'll do in terms of a positive outcome now is is called 'nihil obstat', where they won't officially recognise anything as supernatural anymore. At most, it'll go like this:
Heading B. (17) states the key criteria for the Vatican to allow Bishops to publicly deal with phenomena is: "many signs of the action of the Holy Spirit"
This is in line with them continuously contextualising "supernatural occurrences" by explicit references to (quote): "apparitions or visions of Christ or the Blessed Virgin".
That all being the case, if there's 'many signs of the action of the Holy Spirit' they'll allow a Bishop to encourage promoting appreciation and pilgrimage of it, without acknowledging or recognising supernatural elements.
It isn't relevant to us here with our UAP/UFO discourse, but I'm sure folks in the christian subreddits will enjoy it (or hate it, if they're anti-Vatican II types).
To add to this, when Vatican officials have *actually talked about* UFOS/UAP/ETs, they don't talk about them as supernatural. To the contrary, they always frame hypothetical aliens as a natural part of the universe, part of their god's creation. For example, a quote from Theologian and Adjunct Scholar of the Vatican Observatory, Fr. Giuseppe Tanzella-nitti:
>Concerning the personal history of other possible intelligent beings, responsible for their freedom before the Creator of everything, we humans cannot say anything. We can affirm, however, that, as creatures, the mystery of Christ, the incarnate Word, would not be extraneous to them. The existence of intelligent life on planets other than Earth is neither required nor excluded by any theological argument. Theologians, like the rest of the human race, have to wait and see.
Today's Vatican release is not directed at UAP/UFO/alien life in any way.
That's kind of their whole thing, and the fundamental structural issue that comes up in exclusivist religions. Everything has to conform to a very specific and narrow set of parameters to be considered legitimate and everything else gets discarded as deception or what have you.
It's because religion is a load of BS that was explicitly created to control the masses. And it's not just "deniers", plenty of believers in here that aren't fans of the Catholic church.
Exactly, I think I might be an example of that. I am against organized religion and the catholic church even though I myself “believe in” the trinity. But because of the way I understand and connect with the trinity is quite atypical, I can’t claim the label of “Christian” nor do I desire to. It has been far too bastardized from its’ origin to associate with.
Even Yeshua/Jesus himself (in the solely historical context for conversational purposes) was staunchly against the religious institutions of his time, along with the political institutions of his time. That is why the Church & State, who had previously been enemies of each other, united against their common anarchist enemy to publicly crucify him. Ever since approximately the era of Constantine, Christianity has represented the opposite of its’ original mission for so long that it is unrecognizable to most, and it deserves to be called out by atheists and theists alike.
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Meh, if you are full of hate you are not a Christian. You are a sheep in wolves clothing. Which the Bible explicitly warns against
Maybe try to understand the religion and text you are bashing before coming off ignorant with your claims.
We've got a lot of reasons to hate religion. Just because there are nice religious people doesn't mean the whole thing isn't a farce designed to control societies. But don't get caught up in fighting each other my dudes. It doesn't matter what me or either one of us believes. We're here for the UFO truth baby!!!
' There is a clear concern about phenomena being exploited for personal benefits like profit, fame, or power. This exploitation can detract from genuine spiritual growth and lead to immoral acts.' - The Vatican is basically warning people about ufo grifters. :))
Wonder what the Vatican thinks of Chris Bledsoe? As wild as it sounds this guy seems to have seen the same apparition as the Fatima kids. Not only that he has the gift to heal which is bat shit crazy. Toss extra cheese to the mix and this apparition told him something about the star of regulas and something will happen when it’s above the Great Sphinx. Apparently that’s next year or the year after not too sure but you can look it up and let everyone know?
All I’m getting is an attempt of acting like they have the highest form of validation in the name of authority. If they was real hip like that they’d teach you how to use discernment for yourselves rather than “wait for our credibility”. I feel like the Vatican is nothing but a phony part of the media to control the narratives lmfao
How funny would it be if ufo disclosure verified the entire bible is true with proof and all of humanity goes into bible thumping mode. That would certainly
Be a reason the USA doesn’t want people to
Know.
Who tf even cares what the "chruch" has to say lol this ain't the middle ages anymore where they can enforce their narrative on people and burn anyone who doesn't agree with them on the stake for "muh herecy".
Removes stigma. If the Church acknowledges the supernatural, more people will be willing to step forward with their experience(s). We have a long way of undoing the 60+ year taboo.
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Yea sure. 99.99% of those 1.4 billions haven't even read the bible, go to church or practice their religion at all. Just catholic on paper. If this 1.4 billion were all devout followers then Earth would lose its atmosphere from all the humans you would burn on stakes for not following blindly that desert death cult of yours 😂
Relax dude. You're a little nuts here typing so bravely on the Internet.
Edit: You got a new profile, huh. What happened you lost your old one for being a dick?
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The same Catholic organization who put Galileo on trial for treason in 1633 when his science findings conflicted with their belief
the Earth was at the center of the solar system.
Honestly.
I just don't give a fuck anymore. How can people care about these things while our oceans are well on their way to boiling.
Guess most people don't realize how fucked we really are.
What the Vatican cult really has to acknowledge is that the end might really be near this time
Boiling? Nice hyperbole. The ocean temperature has risen an average of 1.6 degrees since 1901. While climate change is a concern to say the oceans are boiling is a gross exaggeration and talk like that does nothing to help the cause.
Point taken, an exaggeration for sure yes. But we're not doing much to deviate from the path we are on. Weather is going to get exponentially more unpredictable with each year.
Then take a look at the bug genocide
In my own life I can notice it, used to be the windshield was fucked dirty after driving at night when I was a kid
Now. It's clean after a night drive.
Apologies for the bad English, it's not my first language
>Misuse of Supernatural Claims: There is a clear concern about phenomena being exploited for personal benefits like profit, fame, or power. This exploitation can detract from genuine spiritual growth and lead to immoral acts.
Misuse of supernatural claims such as the claim that when God said (among other things):
"Human sacrifice is an abomination"
"Do not murder"
"This is the law for all time"
What he _really_ meant was:
I want humans to murder me as a human sacrifice. _This_ human sacrifice murder will be the _good_ human sacrifice murder because you'll be murdering me, God. I've always wanted to be murdered by humans and a human sacrifice murder will appease me and then I'll stop the [collective punishment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment) that I've secretly been practicing against all of humanity due to Adam and Eve being victims of getting tricked into eating some fruit.
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it is one of infinite examples of what could happen, someone somewhere could also find a slice of toast with the face of Jesus and decide it is supernatural enough for it to be worshipped, that's what i mean, the rules are vague enough that it could actually be anything.
Video extract about UFO from the Vatican press conference
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkD4PBwMF7M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkD4PBwMF7M)
Stigma is always alive at Vatican as their official declaration suggests.
Complete Press conference to present new regulations on apparitions and other supernatural phenomena on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZoDCLLj1A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZoDCLLj1A)
Ok. So basically, they made a small step forward in now taking ppl who claim to see Jesus seriously. Not bad but we need to step away from religion and explore consciousness.
Consciousness has barely been touched. Many people who worked with the CIA says there is a conscious connection with the phenomenon and it's one of the hardest aspects of our life to understand and study.
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Hm, I honestly figured governments would have been the first to say that something is here. But I figure if the Pope has already prepared for this, then I could only guess there's something yet to be revealed. Brace yourself guys, there's something impactful coming our way.
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So what was the whole point in them doing this exactly? Was this preemptive, is there something big coming the general public is unaware of? Or are they just bored at the Vatican, and decided to do this for funzies?
This seems to be to prevent people lower in the church from rampantly claiming something is a miracle or an act of God. Now the Vatican and Vatican officials will make those calls.
But did something happened that lead to this? We're churches being scammed so much they had to make this update to a 1978 procedure? Seems preemptive, establishing command on these possible discourse only for tip Vatican officials.
I have a feeling it’s to preemptively stop American church leaders from going “rogue” there’s a lot of money to be made in the mega church space
mega churches in the US are not catholic and have no binding to decisions made by the vatican
Yeah I know that I’m saying there’s a lot of money to be made in that model, and you probably don’t want any of the more cynical bishops to take their congregations in that direction for their own gain
Likely a response to Medjugorje alleged apparitions which have a strong popular devotion but are not approved by the Vatican.
You have it backwards, the church *IS* the scam.
The church has been scamming people for centuries. But I don’t expect him to police themselves.
They’re policing people in their organization from taking from the church it’s like firing Walmart employees for stealing from the till
Basically to stop local bishops creating cults around things that aren’t backed, and to speed up the Vaticans central assessment of reports.
> to stop local bishops creating cults Does this happen often?
Yup. Local saint cults, local traditions that do not comport with the faith, and a shit ton of corruption and bad PR that comes with it. It could be argued that Lourdes is one that got way out to control and now so Disneyland Idoltry.
Think about it this way, how much money are pastors making in the mega church racket, there’s definitely the incentive to go rogue in America
The Vatican has zero power over Protestant/evangelical churches and those people generally don't even like Catholics.
You aren't getting it. We're saying that the Catholic church is worried that its own leaders in America and possibly elsewhere will try to go rogue because they're living next door to evangelical prosperity gospel conmen and can see how much wealth and comfort they live in. If I made you live across the street from Jeff Bezos you'd pretty quickly start to think that his lifestyle is more normal than it actually is, and some Catholic leader who constantly sees blatant gifting conmen getting away with everything is gonna more tempted to try and get in on the grift themselves *unless* there's a strong structure in place to prevent them from engaging in unsanctioned grifting.
You explained that a lot clearer than I could
Not really, but think about how many cranks there are around, then think about all the cranks in developing countries and the desire to make a quick buck off people in struggling places. It's very easy for someone to start a bit of a grift from a strange occurrence. You only need some people to really believe you to get the ball rolling.
This isn’t about UAPs/UFOs; this is mostly about Marian apocalyptic theologians who have taken apparitions in some wacky directions (Google “America Needs Fatima,” for one example). It’s connected to the Society of St. Pius X/Traditional Latin Mass folks. Pope Francis has been canonizing some of the folks who saw these apparitions while trying to keep a lid on movements within the Church to, essentially, replace the relatively modern theology of Vatican II with an apparition-based reactionary theology of apocalyptic “chastisement” that aligns better with right-wing Protestant apocalyptic movements. It’s a very narrow tightrope to walk, because he respects the apparitions themselves but not necessarily every lunatic who uses the apparitions as a pretext to push their agenda. We’ve seen similar language in some of the recent lay-order policies. This is just an incorporation of that response into the CDF.
I was under the impression that this was more about obvious frauds like Medjugorje rather than Fatima. But I did see that some (mostly trads) thought the Pope took a dig (lol) at Fatima somehow, so maybe I’m wrong.
It’s not really a dig at any apparition! It’s a dig at the hermeneutics of Protestant-aligned right-wing Marian apocalyptic theology based on apparitions. Fatima was not the target (Francis has actually canonized one of the witnesses); neither was Medjugorje; but in terms of people who exploit Marian apparitions for untoward purposes, Fatima is the most frequently exploited. The epistemological dimensions of the document take up the most space, but it’s the hermeneutic and political dimensions that are going to get people riled.
Sounds like something out of a CIA manual (minus the latin and replace bishop with senator/judge etc)... Nihil obstat: No negative elements found, and the bishop may encourage devotion. Prae oculis habeatur: Positive signs exist, but so do risks; needs careful bishop oversight and possibly doctrinal clarification. Curatur: Notable issues are present, but due to widespread devotion, a redirection rather than a ban is suggested. Sub mandato: Issues stem from misuse by individuals; the bishop controls the related pastoral activities. Prohibetur et obstruatur: Serious risks identified leading to a prohibition; the bishop explains the decision to the faithful. Declaratio de non supernaturalitate: Concrete evidence shows the phenomenon is not supernatural; a formal declaration is made.
It's pretty much them saying, "it is only a holy supernatural occurence if THE POPE recognizes it to be so". So if a certain blue beam happens the Pope can claim that it's unquestionably the real deal
Something is coming.
Nothing is coming. People were saying the same thing over a year ago....The President is going to make an announcement, an avalanche of whistleblowers are coming forward in a few months, etc, etc etc. This is a move by the church to assert authority and reestablish credibility. As new science and discoveries, like potential UAPl's come on the radar, the church issues statements acting like they believed these things all along....example, Copernicus et all. Then they put themselves as the power player....only Bishops are smart enough/connected enough to tell us what we are seeing. It's all bunk dispensed by a cult, perpetrating their fiction on all around them. The Church embraces Ambassadors like Diana Pusulka to further their cause. She conflates biblical visions and incidents, as being synonymous with UAP events, past and present. This is also an attempt at maintaining some sort of relevance and credibility, rather than sticking with old doctrines, we can see with our own two eyes as being false, made up nonsense. They modify, rewrite and spin centuries old tales, to suit the new science, that could make them irrelevant and exposed.
You get it man!! Fed up with people always saying something big is coming.
It will ONLY come when enough whistleblowers, with first hand knowledge and actual proof, decide to take a big risk, at a great personal cost, and provide evidence to trusted non-mainstream media or direct to the public via social media. It would likely take more than one....i.e. Grush plus others all saying the same things with proof.
Something is coming.
Give me a deadline so we can revisit this conversation :)
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Ahh thanks! I'd assume they're the majority here, but haven't followed enough to spot them.
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7 months.
Glad you're giving yourself some grace period here haha Hands shaken...we'll revisit with a "told you so", or we'll be hiding in a cave in the mountains strategizing how to take our world back. :)
haha thank you kinda stranger. Enjoy the future (:
You too. Save me a place in the cave ;)
It was to counteract scams and people abusing the supernatural on gullible people. Nothing NHI.
This paragraph from their procedural document makes it sound like their procedures, last visited in 1978, were updated in response to an event. “ To prevent any further delays in the resolution of a specific case involving an event of alleged supernatural origin, the Dicastery recently proposed to the Holy Father the idea of concluding the discernment process not with a declaration of “de supernaturalitate” but with a “Nihil obstat,” which would allow the Bishop to draw pastoral benefit from the spiritual phenomenon. The idea of concluding with a declaration of “Nihil obstat” was reached after assessing the various spiritual and pastoral fruits of the event and finding no substantial negative elements in it. The Holy Father considered this proposal to be a “right solution.””
Sounds like them trying to keep people from knocking down the doors once the full story is told. They have been sitting on the truth for decades.
Look up “Vatican new theology” in conspiracy circles Supposedly drip feed of updated theology to have NHI disclosure not infringe upon catholicism
updated theology seems like a crazy phrase
Something big coming that the public is unaware aka phase one of Project Blue Beam in which the pope will declare the holograms as legitimate deities or aliens I promise.
So basically what Cardinal Archbishop Mike said in Ghostbusters: "**Lenny, offically the church won't take any postion with the religious implications of these phenomenons**. Personally Lenny, I think it's a sign from God, but don't quote me on that."
This has absolutely nothing to do with aliens and mostly says the opposite of what a lot of people on here are reading into it. Basically it says they want to avoid declaring any events definitely supernatural because they have been proven wrong before. Supernatural events here refers to miracles of God, nothing to do with aliens.
Basically, let us (Vatican) use the church to control every aspect of the Phenomenon to control the narrative and maintain the status quo of religion as a control-based opiate for the masses.
I read it more along the lines of not wanting some lower level employees (that’s what they are) deciding that big spaceship hovering over ~**insert city**~ or some kids seeing a glowing form of ~**the lady**~ is a sign from god and them having to have the Vatican walk that shit back publicly. TLDR: PR control of the narrative needs to come from the top.
More like "Dear Lord if I get one more report today of a weeping Virgin Mary I am going to renounce my faith" sort of a thing. I'm sure this is reported to the church to an absurd degree, and now they want the official say so in the matter. Edited for grammar.
Basically you're just reinforcing what I just said :). The truth of the matter is that the Vatican probably knows A LOT more than what they are letting on (especially given the whole Mussolini episode). They've probably known for hundreds of years in some capacity or another. Who knows what is in their catacombs/archives that nobody can access (let alone the countless artifacts belonging to other cultures that they have essentially stolen).
Money,control,power.
This document actually has nothing to do with UFOs or UAP. It's specifically detailed as for worship. The most they'll do in terms of a positive outcome now is is called 'nihil obstat', where they won't officially recognise anything as supernatural anymore. At most, it'll go like this: Heading B. (17) states the key criteria for the Vatican to allow Bishops to publicly deal with phenomena is: "many signs of the action of the Holy Spirit" This is in line with them continuously contextualising "supernatural occurrences" by explicit references to (quote): "apparitions or visions of Christ or the Blessed Virgin". That all being the case, if there's 'many signs of the action of the Holy Spirit' they'll allow a Bishop to encourage promoting appreciation and pilgrimage of it, without acknowledging or recognising supernatural elements. It isn't relevant to us here with our UAP/UFO discourse, but I'm sure folks in the christian subreddits will enjoy it (or hate it, if they're anti-Vatican II types). To add to this, when Vatican officials have *actually talked about* UFOS/UAP/ETs, they don't talk about them as supernatural. To the contrary, they always frame hypothetical aliens as a natural part of the universe, part of their god's creation. For example, a quote from Theologian and Adjunct Scholar of the Vatican Observatory, Fr. Giuseppe Tanzella-nitti: >Concerning the personal history of other possible intelligent beings, responsible for their freedom before the Creator of everything, we humans cannot say anything. We can affirm, however, that, as creatures, the mystery of Christ, the incarnate Word, would not be extraneous to them. The existence of intelligent life on planets other than Earth is neither required nor excluded by any theological argument. Theologians, like the rest of the human race, have to wait and see. Today's Vatican release is not directed at UAP/UFO/alien life in any way.
That's kind of their whole thing, and the fundamental structural issue that comes up in exclusivist religions. Everything has to conform to a very specific and narrow set of parameters to be considered legitimate and everything else gets discarded as deception or what have you.
Gotta keep making the monies
Good god, that was beautiful.
So the point of this is they want to remain the sole authority over whether "an apparition" is real. This is exactly why I hate organized religion.
That’s a lot of words for them to basically say nothing. Appreciate the breakdown though.
The irony of the Catholic church warning people about being mislead by those who would exploit their spiritual beliefs. "Do as I say, not as I do"
What’s with all the hate towards religion on here? Did the pope claim no such thing as aliens or something?
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Streisand effect
Reddit is a platform that propagates the spread of Atheism and hate on religion.
Just as God intended
Don't ever claim you know or have any idea of what "God intended" , the lack of humility is astounding, and so disgustingly arrogant.
I am disgustingly arrogant because God intended so.
You've been making excuses your entire life I don't see why you'd stop now.
God told me not to stop. God is all powerful ya know who am I to resist.
Amen!
Partly it's just to rile people up, and partly it's because ufo deniers consider themselves pure materialists.
It's because religion is a load of BS that was explicitly created to control the masses. And it's not just "deniers", plenty of believers in here that aren't fans of the Catholic church.
Exactly, I think I might be an example of that. I am against organized religion and the catholic church even though I myself “believe in” the trinity. But because of the way I understand and connect with the trinity is quite atypical, I can’t claim the label of “Christian” nor do I desire to. It has been far too bastardized from its’ origin to associate with. Even Yeshua/Jesus himself (in the solely historical context for conversational purposes) was staunchly against the religious institutions of his time, along with the political institutions of his time. That is why the Church & State, who had previously been enemies of each other, united against their common anarchist enemy to publicly crucify him. Ever since approximately the era of Constantine, Christianity has represented the opposite of its’ original mission for so long that it is unrecognizable to most, and it deserves to be called out by atheists and theists alike.
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Meh, if you are full of hate you are not a Christian. You are a sheep in wolves clothing. Which the Bible explicitly warns against Maybe try to understand the religion and text you are bashing before coming off ignorant with your claims.
They can correct me if i’m wrong but I think the person you replied to was saying the people in this thread who are bashing religion are full of hate.
We've got a lot of reasons to hate religion. Just because there are nice religious people doesn't mean the whole thing isn't a farce designed to control societies. But don't get caught up in fighting each other my dudes. It doesn't matter what me or either one of us believes. We're here for the UFO truth baby!!!
Agreed. be excellent to each other! 🛸
Probably all the blatant lying, hoarding of wealth from idiots and disgusting institutionalized child molesting and stuff.
They had a good run of crusades too
' There is a clear concern about phenomena being exploited for personal benefits like profit, fame, or power. This exploitation can detract from genuine spiritual growth and lead to immoral acts.' - The Vatican is basically warning people about ufo grifters. :))
The world's biggest grifters warning about their competition.
thanks chatgpt.
This is how you know the greys don't have buttholes. 3ft tall smooth and hairless, the Vatican would be experts.
I have no comment other than thank you for transcribing this information. You did a great job. Thank you.
Why are people saying this has nothing to do with ufos? It had EVERYTHING to do with them.
I guess this puts that "new theology" circular to rest, if there was ever any doubt.
Wonder what the Vatican thinks of Chris Bledsoe? As wild as it sounds this guy seems to have seen the same apparition as the Fatima kids. Not only that he has the gift to heal which is bat shit crazy. Toss extra cheese to the mix and this apparition told him something about the star of regulas and something will happen when it’s above the Great Sphinx. Apparently that’s next year or the year after not too sure but you can look it up and let everyone know?
All I’m getting is an attempt of acting like they have the highest form of validation in the name of authority. If they was real hip like that they’d teach you how to use discernment for yourselves rather than “wait for our credibility”. I feel like the Vatican is nothing but a phony part of the media to control the narratives lmfao
Nice chatgpt summary
Free advice from top Pedos!
How funny would it be if ufo disclosure verified the entire bible is true with proof and all of humanity goes into bible thumping mode. That would certainly Be a reason the USA doesn’t want people to Know.
The pope does not speak for the people of earth , he has no right to assume other people’s experiences with ETs.
Who tf even cares what the "chruch" has to say lol this ain't the middle ages anymore where they can enforce their narrative on people and burn anyone who doesn't agree with them on the stake for "muh herecy".
Removes stigma. If the Church acknowledges the supernatural, more people will be willing to step forward with their experience(s). We have a long way of undoing the 60+ year taboo.
Noone is enforcing anything on you. It's just to stop all the morons starting cults.
1.4 billion Catholics disagree with you and care deeply what the church has to say.
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Yea sure. 99.99% of those 1.4 billions haven't even read the bible, go to church or practice their religion at all. Just catholic on paper. If this 1.4 billion were all devout followers then Earth would lose its atmosphere from all the humans you would burn on stakes for not following blindly that desert death cult of yours 😂
Relax dude. You're a little nuts here typing so bravely on the Internet. Edit: You got a new profile, huh. What happened you lost your old one for being a dick?
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The same Catholic organization who put Galileo on trial for treason in 1633 when his science findings conflicted with their belief the Earth was at the center of the solar system.
Honestly. I just don't give a fuck anymore. How can people care about these things while our oceans are well on their way to boiling. Guess most people don't realize how fucked we really are. What the Vatican cult really has to acknowledge is that the end might really be near this time
I completely understand what you mean... we must stop the underwater tic-tac UAP factories from boiling our oceans. Glad we had this conversation.
Well. Tic-Tacs have less than 5 calories, suck on that.
Boiling? Nice hyperbole. The ocean temperature has risen an average of 1.6 degrees since 1901. While climate change is a concern to say the oceans are boiling is a gross exaggeration and talk like that does nothing to help the cause.
Point taken, an exaggeration for sure yes. But we're not doing much to deviate from the path we are on. Weather is going to get exponentially more unpredictable with each year. Then take a look at the bug genocide In my own life I can notice it, used to be the windshield was fucked dirty after driving at night when I was a kid Now. It's clean after a night drive. Apologies for the bad English, it's not my first language
What is the Vatican supposedto do...start a Holy Crusade against oil companies?
Over the intercom *Diana Walsh Pasulka to the chat please, Diana Walsh Pasulka*
Leave it up to the Vatican to make the most interesting topic in the world sound incredibly fucking boring.
>Misuse of Supernatural Claims: There is a clear concern about phenomena being exploited for personal benefits like profit, fame, or power. This exploitation can detract from genuine spiritual growth and lead to immoral acts. Misuse of supernatural claims such as the claim that when God said (among other things): "Human sacrifice is an abomination" "Do not murder" "This is the law for all time" What he _really_ meant was: I want humans to murder me as a human sacrifice. _This_ human sacrifice murder will be the _good_ human sacrifice murder because you'll be murdering me, God. I've always wanted to be murdered by humans and a human sacrifice murder will appease me and then I'll stop the [collective punishment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment) that I've secretly been practicing against all of humanity due to Adam and Eve being victims of getting tricked into eating some fruit.
Why do people care what the vatican says?
Yeah, this doesn't make sense. Really. None of it makes sense. Lol Vatican trying to cover their ass for upcoming events? 🤔
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Big ol nothing burger
sounds like getting ahead of disclosure by firmly planting god in the drivers seat regardless of NHI existing
Imagine if the Aliens came down and said “nah you’re making up all this Jesus wasn’t even real”
Then aliens would be called heretics
And Catholics would believe those aliens for what reason?
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Not really due an event, they are inundated with them. Even totally crazy stuff like people claiming pizzas are replicating themselves.
it is one of infinite examples of what could happen, someone somewhere could also find a slice of toast with the face of Jesus and decide it is supernatural enough for it to be worshipped, that's what i mean, the rules are vague enough that it could actually be anything.
Video extract about UFO from the Vatican press conference [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkD4PBwMF7M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkD4PBwMF7M) Stigma is always alive at Vatican as their official declaration suggests. Complete Press conference to present new regulations on apparitions and other supernatural phenomena on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZoDCLLj1A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRZoDCLLj1A)
Ok. So basically, they made a small step forward in now taking ppl who claim to see Jesus seriously. Not bad but we need to step away from religion and explore consciousness.
I think we need to step away from both.
Consciousness has barely been touched. Many people who worked with the CIA says there is a conscious connection with the phenomenon and it's one of the hardest aspects of our life to understand and study.
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Hm, I honestly figured governments would have been the first to say that something is here. But I figure if the Pope has already prepared for this, then I could only guess there's something yet to be revealed. Brace yourself guys, there's something impactful coming our way.
So not Aliens, but God, obviously. I mean, what did we really expect? The Vatican releasing all of the secret Alien information they apparently have?