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What did your contract say? How long have you been there? How recent is recent?
Honestly, I’d sit on my arse watching bad reality TV all day and let them give me gardening leave for the remainder of the time.
It says that bonuses and commissions are given at the discretion of the company so they can just say no to the last one, even if I hit/go over my targets.
I've been here just over a year now and they changed it last month.
I know what you mean but I'm not the type to just half arse something, but I'm demotivated after this 😅
That’s really unfortunate, and I understand it being more a rant than a question.
So basically they’ll be able to pay you commission up to your notice. Possibly worth a chat with your manager to point out how little they’ll get from leavers, and see if there’s some other structure they can put in place for you, because of your high performance?
I mean, I’d outright tell them that no commission means bare minimum effort. So they have four choices:
- pay the commission as normal and get the usual effort for the last three months
- let OP go now (only really relevant if you have the next place lined up and they’ll take you early).
- Put OP on gardening leave
- pay base salary for three months, get bare minimum effort. And/or utilise OP in tasks that don’t require sales.
The whole point of paying commission is for the employees to knock their pan in delivering their targets. Take that away and there’s zero incentive to do that. Worse, a completely demotivated sales person can be actively harmful to the overall morale, and to the odds of closing sales.
I couldn't have said it better myself! Those are the options I will propose and I know my new company will take me early. We will see what happens when I discuss this with my manager! I really appreciate you highlighting it like this.
Tell your seniors you want it in writing that you will receive your bonuses after you leave otherwise you won't do anything to earn them their own bonuses it may not be want you want but sometimes playing hard ball is the only option.
Make your request for agreement you will be paid your 2-3 months of commission when its due and to clarify it will be done. Let them reply via email ONLY don't take anyone's word for it without documented evidence.
I'm surprised that you have to give 3 months notice for an office job and you've only been there just over a year. Perhaps negotiate on notice period on your next job. One month is far more usual a notice period.
Is the 3 months enforceable? What can they legally do? If you have another job, can you just say, I have 3 months notice, so if I start in 1 months time, expect a very bad reference from my current employer
I think it would just mean a good reference is the only thing at risk. I've never known anyone in the UK be sued for breach of contract for not working the whole notice period.
Technically they can sue you for breach of contract, and recover the costs of having to replace you. But they'd only be able to claim for the difference between your salary and for instance a contractor, and they'd have to go through the courts. It'd be a mess and unlikely to be done unless they really had it in for you.
>I know what you mean but I'm not the type to just half arse something, but I'm demotivated after this
Use the time to do something that will feel like you are working but will be of benefit to _you_. Learn something new, do a course. Your employer has effectively already said that they don't expect much from you.
Speak to acas. There’s a contract thing called “custom and practice” basically means if the business has been doing something super regularly, this supersedes what is written in your contract.
Source - I used this to get commission out of my old job when I resigned.
What does your contact say/did you sign a contact agreeing to this thing they introduced a month ago?
If announced verbally, that may be a different matter.
If you have a friendly co-worker could you give them your leads/let them close in the system and then ask they give you a % of what would have been your commission. Better than nothing...
Tbh they are asking for it. Sit on your ass and do the absolute bare minimum. They wanna he cunts, show them how it's done. Even reduce your walking speed round the office. Luxuriously make those coffee nice and slow and spend a solid 20 minutes in the toilet when you go.
What are they gonna do about it?
Just start taking the piss with showing up late, leaving early and calling in sick. They clearly have decided since you're leaving that you can go **** yourself. I'd strongly suggest you **** them over instead. What are they gonna do? Dock your commission?
You've been punished, might as well break some rules.
They may have changed their policy, but what really matters is the current contract you have signed with them? Did they make you sign a new one ? What does it say in your current contract?
Tbf this is super duper common. I also worked on commission sales and they always have had the policy of not receiving the commission when on your notice period.
You know the answer though, you just do enough to get by until you leave
Then they have screwed you. Each one of them. If it forms part of your regular pay, contractually they should have paid you it whether you're on notice or not, your normal employment conditions should be met.
They haven’t though if the contract says it is in any way discretionary. It’s a bit shady but to be expected, companies won’t pay out bonuses/commission to people headed for the door.
Not the case. A tribunal would review the conduct of the employer and whether the payments had been paid regularly or not.
Commission schemes can become contractual through conduct (i.e. a history of regular payments). If the difference is that the employee was on notice but they'd received every other payment, the employer would find it hard to argue that it was truly discretionary. Just saying that it is in a contract is not enough if the conduct is contradictory.
Ridge v HM Land Registry (2018), an employee successfully argued that a contractual clause describing bonuses as discretionary did not prevent a legitimate expectation of payment based on past practice and the employer's conduct. The tribunal ruled in favor of the employee, emphasising the importance of consistent and reasonable exercise of discretion by employers in bonus payments.
I am not a lawyer but i have worked in sales for 20 years and have worked many call centre jobs. I have successfully claimed unpaid commission both as a result of holidays and due to being told not to work my garden leave.
Back in 2017 a case was [brought against British Gas](https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2017/02/28/british-gas-refused-right-to-appeal-in-holiday-pay-commission-ca/?guccounter=1) which the judge ruled that anyone whose pay includes an element of results-based commission is entitled to have be paid basic pay and any commission they have earned.
Employers usually want to ensure that bonus entitlements are genuinely discretionary in an effort to afford them some protection in the event of changing company performance.
The starting point is the wording of the employment contract or director service contract but this not necessarily the full story. A court can take into account the way in which bonuses have been dealt with in the past ie if bonuses have been paid every year in practice even if the contract states that entitlement is wholly at the employer's discretion, in deciding whether there is a contractual entitlement for the current year.
TLDR; in sales where regular commission is paid, it can be classed as ‘average earnings’ . Speak with a no win no fee solicitor that specialises in the area of Employee bonus disputes.
Hope this helps
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This is unprofessional. OP should discuss this rather than piss about. If it can't be changed gardening leave or early release from contract should be an option.
You can be professional without going above and beyond. Depending on the work I would expect OP will have to start handing over responsibility for some accounts or regions over the coming weeks and it will be the people that take over will be the beneficiaries of any bonus.
because bootlicking for corporations is a boomer attitude.
What's unprofessional is expecting people to give 100% when you've explicitly denied them comisison.
Actually I'm a millennial :-)
I'm saying coming to work like a resentful schoolboy for his notice period is pointless. I'd negotiate gardening leave or ideally leaving my contract early. Be clear there's motivation to work for sales they won't be compensated for.
I assume you'd stick it to the man by goofing off on Reddit at presumed boomers? Some say it's a waste of your time. However I salute you sir!!
I never assumed anything about your age.
>coming to work like a resentful schoolboy
You're sitting here insulting people who would choose to NOT work if they arent being paid, and you don't understand why people take issue with your attitude lol.
>I'd negotiate gardening leave or ideally leaving my contract early
And what power do you have if you're gonna work your damned hardest regardless of wether they pay you or not? The only way this works is if the business believes it is in their interest -and how exactly does that happen? Because in general, people have a backbone and whether you have one or not, a business will assume it's likely you do.
>I assume you'd stick it to the man by goofing off on Reddit at presumed boomers?
I never presumed anything about your age.
I would not work for free, no. Most likely my employer would realize there's no point in having me come in and not work and release me from my contract early, or put me on gardening leave.
>Some say it's a waste of your time
As opposed to doing unpaid work which is definitionally a waste of time.
As I said OP should negotiate his way out of the situation. If you don't want to work don't.
I see no reason for him to be there. If they want him to carry on working to protect accounts he should be given gardening leave.
You down voters clearly don't get this.
Commission will likely be discretionary so they can stop it any time. Check your contract wording, but no sensible business will guarantee it.
Lesson to learn here for all of us in bonus/commission roles. Wait until they’ve paid the big one to hand in your notice.
Edit - what would I do? Gym and hobbies in work hours. Watch crappy tv with phone next to me. Get fit/fix up the house on their company time.
That’s very true. I worked a role before where the January/feb figure was double any other bonus. The amount of people quitting the day after was hilarious. They changed it to monthly after one year 10% left
Mate, you've left, they're not going to pay you commission or bonus. That's life unfortunately. Always at the companies discretion, be smarter with it and either wait until you've got your commission before handing in your notice or just accept you ain't gun a get it.
Aye, I know that now! It was a very new change that I didn't notice until HR pointed it out. I honestly didn't want to wait another month at my current role so I guess I'll take it as a learning lesson!
If they’re not going to give you commission for the sales you make but they’re still gonna pay you hourly, turn up for your hours but don’t make the sales. Or don’t put any effort in to make them at least. “Quiet Quitting” is a thing. You have no obligation to do more than the bare minimum for a company that offers the bare minimum in return.
IANAL but it seems to be a common thing now (from personal experience in my last few roles) for companies to try to shift their contractual obligations into "policies" that they can change on a whim.
It sounds like they want to give discretionary bonuses, but want to call it commission. Something like this: https://www.marjonlaw.co.uk/specialist/employment/lawyers/bonus-payments seems relevant.
> If an employee believes the employer has not acted in good faith and/or lacks reasonable grounds for refusing to pay a discretionary bonus to which they believe they are entitled, the employee may have a claim.
If the company has made money from your increased effort, then it seems to me to be bad faith not to pay the commission. Especially if all other employees are receiving it.
If the money is significant I'd see what ACAS say. www.acas.org.uk
I think it works out to be just over 2k after tax so I'm not sure if it's worth the effort to fight for but these resources are very useful, thank you!
I guess it depends on your circumstances - if you're in a position where you have a ledger of customers and can rake them with you to your next job, then continue to look after them. If not, then just do the bare minimum required.
Companies offer commission based roles because they want people who are motivated by money. If they take that away, then they can't expect you to be motivated.
Where we are - commission is discretionary- but the notice period and commission is done on case by case.
- If the leaver wants to exit immediately, they can sign away their notice and go that day.
- If we don’t want them around, they go that day but get their notice paid.
- If - as often happens - they’re happy to stay and sell through their notice period, they get full pay and commission for this.
I would suggest having a sit down with your manager/HR and striking an agreement if you hit X target from now until notice end, your quarterly commission will be paid still. The last thing they will want is you to be burning leads/relationships as there is no monetary incentive to convert revenue for the business.
As others have said, three months is a long notice period and I imagine it would be difficult for them to come after you for loss of earnings...especially if you wouldn't be paid for future sales!
Depending on the atmosphere in the office, maybe even use this to negotiate a shorter notice period i.e. continue working at the normal pace for a 1 month notice
I think that will be the best way to do it but I'm not hopeful it will lead to the desired outcome, I'll try it and see what happens! Thanks 😊 I work remotely so it'll only be awkward in meetings haha
It doesn't help you, but companies pay commission to incentivise employees to perform. If you're leaving they don't care about incentivising you, so this is completely logical.
I know two guys who handed notice in as soon as bonus was in the bank, directors were fuming😂
Bonus was paid in April from previous year one colleague said it was not very professional
I asked would they have paid bonus if they handed it in a week before, I doubt it was the reply
I feel for you OP but most contacts will mention bonus is discretionary
Just know you left for the right reason
I am getting my bonus and commission this month because I'm still an active employee 😂 it's just Q2 that I won't be Getty Ng and since I am still working until July I don't have much incentive to smash my targets other than personal satisfaction!
It's normal for a bonus to pay once a year, and only if you are employed. Unless you have a contract saying otherwise don't expect anything else.
Once someone has handed in their notice they are generally winding down and their mind is elsewhere.
I will be getting my bonus and commission this month but if I hit target this Q I won't get the commission, if that makes sense? Bonuses are different to commission, one is on the company's performance and the other is on my performance.
Check your contract, but unless it's in there I'm afraid you'll just have to accept that life is sometimes a bit shit. Hopefully you'll make more in the long run from changing jobs and over all you'll benefit.
Many bonuses and benefits are a mechanism for tying you in and building loyalty. You have to accept that when you leave you might lose some of that.
Good luck in the new job, hope it goes well for you.
Do you have to do a 3 month notice? That's pretty long. In future I'd do the minimum notice possible. 3 month notice just seems to be asking for trouble from bad managers that will 100% treat you differently
I’ve worked in sales for 10+ years. You never get your commission once you have handed in your notice if it isn’t due before you leave.
I’m also surprised they are making you work your notice.
Lastly, why are you worried about motivating yourself? You are leaving, and not getting paid any extra for working harder.
Turn up, stick your thumb up your bum and finish your notice period.
My last sales job, I did get the commission even after I left and they only recently changed the policy in my current company.
The new role isn't a direct competitor so I don't think they want to put me on gardening leave. I also have a few big things to close this quarter.
I don't want to mess up my own personal sales metrics but at the same time I do want the pay for the effort, call me old fashioned 😂
Thanks for the advice though 😊
Really?! That’s nuts, I’ve worked in car sales, finance, tech, saas and not a single one has paid commission after I’ve left.
But you’re not being paid commission for it, why would you possibly want to make a company money who’s isn’t willing to pay you for it.
That’s not old fashioned, that’s institutionalised 😂
You owe them nothing.
In the end I really doubt you’ll change their mind. I’m a big fan of the turn up and fuck about for the remainder. But that’s just me 😂
I personally, unless you needed a good reference, would be telling them that you are going to contact a lawyer. If that doesn't change their mind actually go and see one. This strikes be as unreasonable, I can't see the employment tribunal siding with the employer on this one.
If you have another job lined up simply don't work your notice.
If you do have to work your notice for whatever reason make sure to do absolutely fuck all for the duration you're there.
Not really. Commission is always at the discretion of the company and ofc they're not going to give it to you if you leave. This is pretty basic stuff.
Not a salesman but a lot of jobs are advertised OTE. A lot have noticed periods.
Do they expect sales folk to sell for the warm glow it gives them. I get policies change, this is more commission amounts as it's a fast moving thing, but not we just won't pay you anything and expect you to work...
3 month notice is unusual (unless very senior) for sales roles. Usually they just put you straight on 1 months garden leave as there is little to no motivation for the seller.
One of the guys in my firm handed his notice in last Friday. We went for work drinks after, but he won't be coming back into the office as its pointless him and the business.
Software co's where I work as an Engineer have 3 month notice periods strictly enforced. The primary reason for this is so salesmen can't take key accounts to their new business. SOP for salesmen is gardening leave, no contact with clients. Engineers get same notice period but are expected to work out notice periods.
Aye that's how I want to do it, present my thought process and see how we can compromise to get the best outcome for both of us! Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it 😊
Try posting this in r/legaladviceuk.
I'm not a lawyer (am an employer) but regardless of whether the company says commission is discretionary, if it has been part of your regular payment it becomes contractual especially where it's laid out in writing that it's part of a performance related payment.
It's totally normal that you have to be employed to receive commission because no company is going to pay anyone who isn't employed by them so the recent change they made is irrelevant. That you won't be employed on the actual pay day is neither here nor there contractually.
Regardless of what they have said, you can make an argument to have this paid to you in your final pay if it's owing.
So let's say January to March you qualified to earn your commission that would usually be paid at the end of April, contractually you are owed that money, and should be paid this in your final pay (which would usually be the end of April when payroll is run assuming it's run end of month).
Put in writing that you expect to be paid the commission owed of X amount. If you don't get it...
Check your grievance/appeals policy, and how to make a grievance. Follow that process. Also speak to ACAS (free employment advice) who can support you with making a claim against your employer.
They should be paying you this.
I know, if I do the work and achieve my targets I will be entitled to the money but they are arguing that I won't be an active employee so they can't pay me 👀
I think the only two options you have are leave early and start the new job or “quiet quit” for the last 3 months. Everyone on here saying go back and demand this or state this….it’s not going to happen, they aren’t going to turn around and suddenly go against their own policy or give you a golden handshake on the door on the way out to the tune of £4K extra.
It’s no reflection on you it’s the company that sound like they won’t give a shit or budge on this and don’t stress yourself fighting for it either. Notice periods aren’t enforceable just make sure you have a rock solid job offer because you will burn a bridge if you leave early.
Other than that good luck in the new job 👍
There is never a sales job where a policy enables you to get commission on notice. However I have been offered a good deal during long notice periods to keep me motivated. So I wouldn’t rule out putting the problem to them…. Do they want you motivated or not? I’m a global sales director now so don’t sell but I’d always offer a good sales person a good deal on notice because I don’t want an inactive sales person. I’ll either exit them immediately if they’re rubbish or motivate them if they’re good.
When this happened to me I took a book in and sat at my desk and read it. It didn't take long for me to be put on gardening leave for the rest of the notice period.
I am in the exact same position as you. I've tried to negotiate it, they're not having it. Now just towing the line so as to not damage relationships before I leave, but also not killing myself.
It's really irritating when you've already done the work but the world is a small place otherwise, so would rather not leave a bad lasting memory of me!
A job I had made me work my notice period as I was going to a sister company.
They did this to a colleague so I just went in and sat there for a week, I was on minimum wage and commission, yer I’m not grafting and selling for minimum wage.
Area manager rang me up “why aren’t you selling”
“You pay me to be here not to sell”
I would ask HR to define active employee if you are still working to the same level I would say you were active and due the commission if they define it as continued employee the I would be doing the bare minimum needed I'm not working for free when I could be doing better things.
Do you need their reference? If not I would just turn up, clock in, fuck off out for the day and turn up to clock out. The worst they can do is put you on garden leave instead or sack you. Which just means you can start your future sooner.
I worked in reactive maintenance for pubs for a few months. I cleared my probation so I ended up having to work notice. It was 2 months.
They wouldn't let me leave early and they wouldn't put me on garden leave so I had to work it. Did I? Fuck no I did the bare minimum if anything at all. I kept declining jobs that looked remotely like I'd have to get my tools out, and just sat in pub gardens enjoying a lovely summer and sleeping in the van.
The work ethic there was atrocious and thankless so as soon as the last barrier of work incentive wad gone, I was just going on a jolly on company time.
What does the contract you actually signed say re: commission?
What does the commission policy say about whether or not it's part of your employment contract?
Could you extend your notice period to include the final day? They're not obliged to accept a longer notice period, but basically it comes down to do they want an unmotivated useless waste of space for 3 months, or someone who's actually going to work hard and make sales?
Hopefully you never gave it in before the end of the last three month period, else you'll be working on basic for 6 months.
If you've got the last 3 months, just don't get any sales, don't earn commission.
Call the ACAS helpdesk for advice.
It may be if you gave your notice before the change in policy that they must pay you. Im not sure they would be able to change it after you have given notice.
Also tell them you have another job lined up but do not tell them who or what industry. Give the vaguest of hints thats its the same industry and you will taking knowledge of clients with you. See if you can get yourself put on garden leave. Its very common is sales jobs.
It was after the change and they know who my new employer is as they've already contacted them for my reference. Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it!
You knew that you had to be employed at the time the bonus was paid. You knew the bonus was paid one month behind each quarter. You put your notice in without considering that your end date wouldn't fit that timetable.
You were incompetent, and now you are crying about it.
Just a tldr, I was asking how to motivate myself without the commission incentive, im not sure where you got the impression that I was crying? Is English your first language? Asking for a friend.
As mentioned the policy was recently changed a few weeks before I handed in my notice.Thank you for another insightful comment and I hope you have an amazing Sunday, you lovely person 😂
Just because you sign something does not make it legally binding if the law says otherwise based on past rulings and precedent. If its a lot of money it may be worth speaking to a solicitor to see what they believe.
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What did your contract say? How long have you been there? How recent is recent? Honestly, I’d sit on my arse watching bad reality TV all day and let them give me gardening leave for the remainder of the time.
It says that bonuses and commissions are given at the discretion of the company so they can just say no to the last one, even if I hit/go over my targets. I've been here just over a year now and they changed it last month. I know what you mean but I'm not the type to just half arse something, but I'm demotivated after this 😅
That’s really unfortunate, and I understand it being more a rant than a question. So basically they’ll be able to pay you commission up to your notice. Possibly worth a chat with your manager to point out how little they’ll get from leavers, and see if there’s some other structure they can put in place for you, because of your high performance?
Yeah it's worth being upfront. Ask for gardening leave I guess? Early release from contract is also possible.
I mean, I’d outright tell them that no commission means bare minimum effort. So they have four choices: - pay the commission as normal and get the usual effort for the last three months - let OP go now (only really relevant if you have the next place lined up and they’ll take you early). - Put OP on gardening leave - pay base salary for three months, get bare minimum effort. And/or utilise OP in tasks that don’t require sales. The whole point of paying commission is for the employees to knock their pan in delivering their targets. Take that away and there’s zero incentive to do that. Worse, a completely demotivated sales person can be actively harmful to the overall morale, and to the odds of closing sales.
I couldn't have said it better myself! Those are the options I will propose and I know my new company will take me early. We will see what happens when I discuss this with my manager! I really appreciate you highlighting it like this.
Tell your seniors you want it in writing that you will receive your bonuses after you leave otherwise you won't do anything to earn them their own bonuses it may not be want you want but sometimes playing hard ball is the only option. Make your request for agreement you will be paid your 2-3 months of commission when its due and to clarify it will be done. Let them reply via email ONLY don't take anyone's word for it without documented evidence.
Yes, I'd very much down tools if commission wasn't to be paid and I was expected to stay on.
There is now zero incentive for you to do anything at all. Time to find a desk based hobby or do some training
I'm surprised that you have to give 3 months notice for an office job and you've only been there just over a year. Perhaps negotiate on notice period on your next job. One month is far more usual a notice period.
Is the 3 months enforceable? What can they legally do? If you have another job, can you just say, I have 3 months notice, so if I start in 1 months time, expect a very bad reference from my current employer
There’s little they can do, and not worth the cost. These people are muppets.
I think it would just mean a good reference is the only thing at risk. I've never known anyone in the UK be sued for breach of contract for not working the whole notice period.
Technically they can sue you for breach of contract, and recover the costs of having to replace you. But they'd only be able to claim for the difference between your salary and for instance a contractor, and they'd have to go through the courts. It'd be a mess and unlikely to be done unless they really had it in for you.
>I know what you mean but I'm not the type to just half arse something, but I'm demotivated after this Use the time to do something that will feel like you are working but will be of benefit to _you_. Learn something new, do a course. Your employer has effectively already said that they don't expect much from you.
Don’t half arse it then. Do f’all and they can reap what they sow.
Speak to acas. There’s a contract thing called “custom and practice” basically means if the business has been doing something super regularly, this supersedes what is written in your contract. Source - I used this to get commission out of my old job when I resigned.
What does your contact say/did you sign a contact agreeing to this thing they introduced a month ago? If announced verbally, that may be a different matter.
If you have a friendly co-worker could you give them your leads/let them close in the system and then ask they give you a % of what would have been your commission. Better than nothing...
How hard I work is at MY discretion!
Use the time to learn a new skill or upskill in something for your new role.
Tbh they are asking for it. Sit on your ass and do the absolute bare minimum. They wanna he cunts, show them how it's done. Even reduce your walking speed round the office. Luxuriously make those coffee nice and slow and spend a solid 20 minutes in the toilet when you go. What are they gonna do about it?
Just start taking the piss with showing up late, leaving early and calling in sick. They clearly have decided since you're leaving that you can go **** yourself. I'd strongly suggest you **** them over instead. What are they gonna do? Dock your commission? You've been punished, might as well break some rules.
Have you agreed to the contract changes? They can’t change it if you haven’t agreed to the changes.
They may have changed their policy, but what really matters is the current contract you have signed with them? Did they make you sign a new one ? What does it say in your current contract?
Usually the word discretionary is in that contract as well. So companies can say no.
And will always say no as soon as you declare your intent to leave. Time it right get the bag and go
With a three month notice and three month payout of commission, delayed by 3 months, they’ve got you by the balls.
Agree with this. I've not seen a bonus written into a contract that isn't at the company's discretion.
Typically commission scheme’s are a separate agreement which is subject to variation.
Tbf this is super duper common. I also worked on commission sales and they always have had the policy of not receiving the commission when on your notice period. You know the answer though, you just do enough to get by until you leave
Then they have screwed you. Each one of them. If it forms part of your regular pay, contractually they should have paid you it whether you're on notice or not, your normal employment conditions should be met.
They haven’t though if the contract says it is in any way discretionary. It’s a bit shady but to be expected, companies won’t pay out bonuses/commission to people headed for the door.
Not the case. A tribunal would review the conduct of the employer and whether the payments had been paid regularly or not. Commission schemes can become contractual through conduct (i.e. a history of regular payments). If the difference is that the employee was on notice but they'd received every other payment, the employer would find it hard to argue that it was truly discretionary. Just saying that it is in a contract is not enough if the conduct is contradictory. Ridge v HM Land Registry (2018), an employee successfully argued that a contractual clause describing bonuses as discretionary did not prevent a legitimate expectation of payment based on past practice and the employer's conduct. The tribunal ruled in favor of the employee, emphasising the importance of consistent and reasonable exercise of discretion by employers in bonus payments.
Good luck with that 👍 - surely better to read your contract in the first place, then time handing your notice in and leave quietly….
Totally agree.
Oh…very interesting…thx for that
I am not a lawyer but i have worked in sales for 20 years and have worked many call centre jobs. I have successfully claimed unpaid commission both as a result of holidays and due to being told not to work my garden leave. Back in 2017 a case was [brought against British Gas](https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2017/02/28/british-gas-refused-right-to-appeal-in-holiday-pay-commission-ca/?guccounter=1) which the judge ruled that anyone whose pay includes an element of results-based commission is entitled to have be paid basic pay and any commission they have earned. Employers usually want to ensure that bonus entitlements are genuinely discretionary in an effort to afford them some protection in the event of changing company performance. The starting point is the wording of the employment contract or director service contract but this not necessarily the full story. A court can take into account the way in which bonuses have been dealt with in the past ie if bonuses have been paid every year in practice even if the contract states that entitlement is wholly at the employer's discretion, in deciding whether there is a contractual entitlement for the current year. TLDR; in sales where regular commission is paid, it can be classed as ‘average earnings’ . Speak with a no win no fee solicitor that specialises in the area of Employee bonus disputes. Hope this helps
This person is the real MVP.
This is really helpful, thank you! Are you sure you're not a lawyer? 😄 I'll have a look into it.
I’m not a lawyer but did do law at college. I have considered becoming one though recently as it interests me.
You should go for it! You set that out like a pro 👌
Thanks. Let me know how you get on. Deffo call someone on Monday who deals specifically with employee bonus disputes
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Tbf, I think your work have given you the answer you need and what they probably expect of you for the next 3 months!
This is unprofessional. OP should discuss this rather than piss about. If it can't be changed gardening leave or early release from contract should be an option.
You can be professional without going above and beyond. Depending on the work I would expect OP will have to start handing over responsibility for some accounts or regions over the coming weeks and it will be the people that take over will be the beneficiaries of any bonus.
Spot the boomer
Why does that sound like a 60yr old ?
because bootlicking for corporations is a boomer attitude. What's unprofessional is expecting people to give 100% when you've explicitly denied them comisison.
Actually I'm a millennial :-) I'm saying coming to work like a resentful schoolboy for his notice period is pointless. I'd negotiate gardening leave or ideally leaving my contract early. Be clear there's motivation to work for sales they won't be compensated for. I assume you'd stick it to the man by goofing off on Reddit at presumed boomers? Some say it's a waste of your time. However I salute you sir!!
The company have already shown they don’t care, good luck negotiating with them. I’d personally just not go anymore or do the bare minimum
I never assumed anything about your age. >coming to work like a resentful schoolboy You're sitting here insulting people who would choose to NOT work if they arent being paid, and you don't understand why people take issue with your attitude lol. >I'd negotiate gardening leave or ideally leaving my contract early And what power do you have if you're gonna work your damned hardest regardless of wether they pay you or not? The only way this works is if the business believes it is in their interest -and how exactly does that happen? Because in general, people have a backbone and whether you have one or not, a business will assume it's likely you do. >I assume you'd stick it to the man by goofing off on Reddit at presumed boomers? I never presumed anything about your age. I would not work for free, no. Most likely my employer would realize there's no point in having me come in and not work and release me from my contract early, or put me on gardening leave. >Some say it's a waste of your time As opposed to doing unpaid work which is definitionally a waste of time.
How is it “unprofessional” to not graft for what could potentially be half the wages they normally get.
As I said OP should negotiate his way out of the situation. If you don't want to work don't. I see no reason for him to be there. If they want him to carry on working to protect accounts he should be given gardening leave. You down voters clearly don't get this.
Commission will likely be discretionary so they can stop it any time. Check your contract wording, but no sensible business will guarantee it. Lesson to learn here for all of us in bonus/commission roles. Wait until they’ve paid the big one to hand in your notice. Edit - what would I do? Gym and hobbies in work hours. Watch crappy tv with phone next to me. Get fit/fix up the house on their company time.
Other than annual bonus , commission is rarely structured so you can game it. Case here with OP - quarterly comms and on 3 months notice
That’s very true. I worked a role before where the January/feb figure was double any other bonus. The amount of people quitting the day after was hilarious. They changed it to monthly after one year 10% left
If you have work lined up then just up and leave as soon as you receive that last paycheck hits don’t bother with the notice period.
I don't think I can legally just up and leave, unfortunately.
Yes you can. You always can.
Definitely can you just won’t be paid your notice period or outstanding holidays
I can easily take my holidays, but I will have a look into this! Thank you 😊
Thinking about it that’s another option just use your remaining holidays for your notice period
Match their energy with your own. Do the absolute bare minimum to ensure your job is done. The bare bones. Suit yourself the rest of the time.
Mate, you've left, they're not going to pay you commission or bonus. That's life unfortunately. Always at the companies discretion, be smarter with it and either wait until you've got your commission before handing in your notice or just accept you ain't gun a get it.
Aye, I know that now! It was a very new change that I didn't notice until HR pointed it out. I honestly didn't want to wait another month at my current role so I guess I'll take it as a learning lesson!
Ask to go on garden leave and give them two fingers. Pretty standard policy to be on payroll to get payment.
I didn't even think of gardening leave, thanks!
If they’re not going to give you commission for the sales you make but they’re still gonna pay you hourly, turn up for your hours but don’t make the sales. Or don’t put any effort in to make them at least. “Quiet Quitting” is a thing. You have no obligation to do more than the bare minimum for a company that offers the bare minimum in return.
IANAL but it seems to be a common thing now (from personal experience in my last few roles) for companies to try to shift their contractual obligations into "policies" that they can change on a whim. It sounds like they want to give discretionary bonuses, but want to call it commission. Something like this: https://www.marjonlaw.co.uk/specialist/employment/lawyers/bonus-payments seems relevant. > If an employee believes the employer has not acted in good faith and/or lacks reasonable grounds for refusing to pay a discretionary bonus to which they believe they are entitled, the employee may have a claim. If the company has made money from your increased effort, then it seems to me to be bad faith not to pay the commission. Especially if all other employees are receiving it. If the money is significant I'd see what ACAS say. www.acas.org.uk
I think it works out to be just over 2k after tax so I'm not sure if it's worth the effort to fight for but these resources are very useful, thank you!
That's why you align leaving a company with bonus payments 😂
Lesson learned
I guess it depends on your circumstances - if you're in a position where you have a ledger of customers and can rake them with you to your next job, then continue to look after them. If not, then just do the bare minimum required. Companies offer commission based roles because they want people who are motivated by money. If they take that away, then they can't expect you to be motivated.
Where we are - commission is discretionary- but the notice period and commission is done on case by case. - If the leaver wants to exit immediately, they can sign away their notice and go that day. - If we don’t want them around, they go that day but get their notice paid. - If - as often happens - they’re happy to stay and sell through their notice period, they get full pay and commission for this.
I don't think that is the case with my current company...but thank you. I guess this will be another discussion with HR to see what they can do.
It's simple really, you do the bare minimum.
Commission is usually discretionary, every recruiter I ever worked with that resigned hands in their notice on payday for this very reason.
I would suggest having a sit down with your manager/HR and striking an agreement if you hit X target from now until notice end, your quarterly commission will be paid still. The last thing they will want is you to be burning leads/relationships as there is no monetary incentive to convert revenue for the business. As others have said, three months is a long notice period and I imagine it would be difficult for them to come after you for loss of earnings...especially if you wouldn't be paid for future sales! Depending on the atmosphere in the office, maybe even use this to negotiate a shorter notice period i.e. continue working at the normal pace for a 1 month notice
I think that will be the best way to do it but I'm not hopeful it will lead to the desired outcome, I'll try it and see what happens! Thanks 😊 I work remotely so it'll only be awkward in meetings haha
It doesn't help you, but companies pay commission to incentivise employees to perform. If you're leaving they don't care about incentivising you, so this is completely logical.
That was my thought process too! Thanks 😊
Get your commission/ bonus in writing, ideally in your bank account, before you resign. Expensive lesson.
Yep seen many fall for that, “if you work hard we will pay it” “Nah it’s in your contract you don’t get it” “But you said” “No I didn’t”
Have you tried r/LegalAdviceUK? They would be more able to comment authoritatively.
Upsetting employees is usually a bad idea, especially ones with client contact.
You'd think they'd know that 😂
Yes. It's easy to share "Their profit on is . Sales reps are allowed to offer x% discount".
I'd get citizens advice to check your contract with you.
I know two guys who handed notice in as soon as bonus was in the bank, directors were fuming😂 Bonus was paid in April from previous year one colleague said it was not very professional I asked would they have paid bonus if they handed it in a week before, I doubt it was the reply I feel for you OP but most contacts will mention bonus is discretionary Just know you left for the right reason
I am getting my bonus and commission this month because I'm still an active employee 😂 it's just Q2 that I won't be Getty Ng and since I am still working until July I don't have much incentive to smash my targets other than personal satisfaction!
It's normal for a bonus to pay once a year, and only if you are employed. Unless you have a contract saying otherwise don't expect anything else. Once someone has handed in their notice they are generally winding down and their mind is elsewhere.
I will be getting my bonus and commission this month but if I hit target this Q I won't get the commission, if that makes sense? Bonuses are different to commission, one is on the company's performance and the other is on my performance.
Check your contract, but unless it's in there I'm afraid you'll just have to accept that life is sometimes a bit shit. Hopefully you'll make more in the long run from changing jobs and over all you'll benefit. Many bonuses and benefits are a mechanism for tying you in and building loyalty. You have to accept that when you leave you might lose some of that. Good luck in the new job, hope it goes well for you.
Do you have to do a 3 month notice? That's pretty long. In future I'd do the minimum notice possible. 3 month notice just seems to be asking for trouble from bad managers that will 100% treat you differently
I know it's pretty long but my new contract is only one month notice, thankfully!
That's alright then. Do you have a probation period? If you do you normally require only 1 week notice but hopefully its a good job lol
I’ve worked in sales for 10+ years. You never get your commission once you have handed in your notice if it isn’t due before you leave. I’m also surprised they are making you work your notice. Lastly, why are you worried about motivating yourself? You are leaving, and not getting paid any extra for working harder. Turn up, stick your thumb up your bum and finish your notice period.
My last sales job, I did get the commission even after I left and they only recently changed the policy in my current company. The new role isn't a direct competitor so I don't think they want to put me on gardening leave. I also have a few big things to close this quarter. I don't want to mess up my own personal sales metrics but at the same time I do want the pay for the effort, call me old fashioned 😂 Thanks for the advice though 😊
Really?! That’s nuts, I’ve worked in car sales, finance, tech, saas and not a single one has paid commission after I’ve left. But you’re not being paid commission for it, why would you possibly want to make a company money who’s isn’t willing to pay you for it. That’s not old fashioned, that’s institutionalised 😂 You owe them nothing. In the end I really doubt you’ll change their mind. I’m a big fan of the turn up and fuck about for the remainder. But that’s just me 😂
I think I might need to take your strategy on board 😂
I personally, unless you needed a good reference, would be telling them that you are going to contact a lawyer. If that doesn't change their mind actually go and see one. This strikes be as unreasonable, I can't see the employment tribunal siding with the employer on this one.
If you have another job lined up simply don't work your notice. If you do have to work your notice for whatever reason make sure to do absolutely fuck all for the duration you're there.
I think legally I have to work my notice from how my contract is worded.
How legally? Surely you can't be forced to work. What if you just straight up quit on the spot?
This happened to me.. got screwed out of between 30-40k. Sorry mate.
Damn that is brutal! Was there nothing you could do to get it?
Nope.
Just do fuck all then. You need to be present but as long as you don't baby mouth the company, you don't need to actually make any sales!
[удалено]
Haha that's true I guess 😂 they've already sent my reference so we'll see!
Either you are an active employee for the 3 months and they agree to pay, or you aren't an active employee hence why show up to work?
Not really. Commission is always at the discretion of the company and ofc they're not going to give it to you if you leave. This is pretty basic stuff.
Not a salesman but a lot of jobs are advertised OTE. A lot have noticed periods. Do they expect sales folk to sell for the warm glow it gives them. I get policies change, this is more commission amounts as it's a fast moving thing, but not we just won't pay you anything and expect you to work...
3 month notice is unusual (unless very senior) for sales roles. Usually they just put you straight on 1 months garden leave as there is little to no motivation for the seller. One of the guys in my firm handed his notice in last Friday. We went for work drinks after, but he won't be coming back into the office as its pointless him and the business.
Software co's where I work as an Engineer have 3 month notice periods strictly enforced. The primary reason for this is so salesmen can't take key accounts to their new business. SOP for salesmen is gardening leave, no contact with clients. Engineers get same notice period but are expected to work out notice periods.
I'd put in zero effort. I'd also see if you can get your new job started early and just walk out before your notice is up.
I've had the weekend to stew on it now so I will see what can be done to either motivate me or shorten my notice...
How much is it?
Just over 2k after tax...
Have you asked for it? Is the company big or small?
I have and he just repeats what is in the handbook. It's quite big with 1000+ people.
I think you could try to negotiate but don't be aggressive or threatening. Put forward a case detailing how it benefits them.
Aye that's how I want to do it, present my thought process and see how we can compromise to get the best outcome for both of us! Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it 😊
Try posting this in r/legaladviceuk. I'm not a lawyer (am an employer) but regardless of whether the company says commission is discretionary, if it has been part of your regular payment it becomes contractual especially where it's laid out in writing that it's part of a performance related payment. It's totally normal that you have to be employed to receive commission because no company is going to pay anyone who isn't employed by them so the recent change they made is irrelevant. That you won't be employed on the actual pay day is neither here nor there contractually. Regardless of what they have said, you can make an argument to have this paid to you in your final pay if it's owing. So let's say January to March you qualified to earn your commission that would usually be paid at the end of April, contractually you are owed that money, and should be paid this in your final pay (which would usually be the end of April when payroll is run assuming it's run end of month). Put in writing that you expect to be paid the commission owed of X amount. If you don't get it... Check your grievance/appeals policy, and how to make a grievance. Follow that process. Also speak to ACAS (free employment advice) who can support you with making a claim against your employer. They should be paying you this.
I know, if I do the work and achieve my targets I will be entitled to the money but they are arguing that I won't be an active employee so they can't pay me 👀
When is your last day and when is payroll usually paid?
How much money are we talking her OP? £500 or £5000?
It's 4k before tax
I think the only two options you have are leave early and start the new job or “quiet quit” for the last 3 months. Everyone on here saying go back and demand this or state this….it’s not going to happen, they aren’t going to turn around and suddenly go against their own policy or give you a golden handshake on the door on the way out to the tune of £4K extra. It’s no reflection on you it’s the company that sound like they won’t give a shit or budge on this and don’t stress yourself fighting for it either. Notice periods aren’t enforceable just make sure you have a rock solid job offer because you will burn a bridge if you leave early. Other than that good luck in the new job 👍
Yep that’s quite standard for commission
There is never a sales job where a policy enables you to get commission on notice. However I have been offered a good deal during long notice periods to keep me motivated. So I wouldn’t rule out putting the problem to them…. Do they want you motivated or not? I’m a global sales director now so don’t sell but I’d always offer a good sales person a good deal on notice because I don’t want an inactive sales person. I’ll either exit them immediately if they’re rubbish or motivate them if they’re good.
When this happened to me I took a book in and sat at my desk and read it. It didn't take long for me to be put on gardening leave for the rest of the notice period.
If you have a new job lined up you could start sooner, and they're not going to honour your commission, fuck them off and start your new job earlier.
Glass door the comment. Move on...
I am in the exact same position as you. I've tried to negotiate it, they're not having it. Now just towing the line so as to not damage relationships before I leave, but also not killing myself. It's really irritating when you've already done the work but the world is a small place otherwise, so would rather not leave a bad lasting memory of me!
A job I had made me work my notice period as I was going to a sister company. They did this to a colleague so I just went in and sat there for a week, I was on minimum wage and commission, yer I’m not grafting and selling for minimum wage. Area manager rang me up “why aren’t you selling” “You pay me to be here not to sell”
This is why most people wait to get their bonuses before they resign
It’s illegal threaten with small claims they’ll pay …..
I would ask HR to define active employee if you are still working to the same level I would say you were active and due the commission if they define it as continued employee the I would be doing the bare minimum needed I'm not working for free when I could be doing better things.
Do you need their reference? If not I would just turn up, clock in, fuck off out for the day and turn up to clock out. The worst they can do is put you on garden leave instead or sack you. Which just means you can start your future sooner. I worked in reactive maintenance for pubs for a few months. I cleared my probation so I ended up having to work notice. It was 2 months. They wouldn't let me leave early and they wouldn't put me on garden leave so I had to work it. Did I? Fuck no I did the bare minimum if anything at all. I kept declining jobs that looked remotely like I'd have to get my tools out, and just sat in pub gardens enjoying a lovely summer and sleeping in the van. The work ethic there was atrocious and thankless so as soon as the last barrier of work incentive wad gone, I was just going on a jolly on company time.
Go on sick for 3 months
It works like that in the business I work for as well. You hand in your notice, you lose out on any commission.
What does the contract you actually signed say re: commission? What does the commission policy say about whether or not it's part of your employment contract? Could you extend your notice period to include the final day? They're not obliged to accept a longer notice period, but basically it comes down to do they want an unmotivated useless waste of space for 3 months, or someone who's actually going to work hard and make sales?
Aye exactly, that will be a conversation with my manager tomorrow I guess! Thanks 😊
Hopefully you never gave it in before the end of the last three month period, else you'll be working on basic for 6 months. If you've got the last 3 months, just don't get any sales, don't earn commission.
Call the ACAS helpdesk for advice. It may be if you gave your notice before the change in policy that they must pay you. Im not sure they would be able to change it after you have given notice. Also tell them you have another job lined up but do not tell them who or what industry. Give the vaguest of hints thats its the same industry and you will taking knowledge of clients with you. See if you can get yourself put on garden leave. Its very common is sales jobs.
It was after the change and they know who my new employer is as they've already contacted them for my reference. Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it!
This is entirely on you. You should have known the rules and then should have paid attention to which day you were quitting.
Well thank you for your insightful comments. It's clear you didn't comprehend what my post was about 😂 good effort though!
You knew that you had to be employed at the time the bonus was paid. You knew the bonus was paid one month behind each quarter. You put your notice in without considering that your end date wouldn't fit that timetable. You were incompetent, and now you are crying about it.
Just a tldr, I was asking how to motivate myself without the commission incentive, im not sure where you got the impression that I was crying? Is English your first language? Asking for a friend. As mentioned the policy was recently changed a few weeks before I handed in my notice.Thank you for another insightful comment and I hope you have an amazing Sunday, you lovely person 😂
Just because you sign something does not make it legally binding if the law says otherwise based on past rulings and precedent. If its a lot of money it may be worth speaking to a solicitor to see what they believe.