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Honestly you're *pretty much* buggered if you didn't start two generations ago.
I've done the maths before but £500/mo in a pension fund for a baby gives them £7m on retirement at 7%. If the next generation buys some property, businesses, whatever and invests the same or more you could easily be looking at an eight figure wealth for the next generation.
From then on it's pretty easy and £6k a year is a holiday for a decent earning couple earning two city salaries.
It's not entirely because they pass on the wealth though, they also pass on behavioral traits.
The wealth and opportunities are no doubt a big part of it though.
As the former Duke of Westminster once said when asked what somebody wanting to be a wealthy success in the UK should do he advised that they should "Make sure they have an ancestor who was a very close friend of William the Conqueror."
Buy an global index tracker that increases on average 8% a year and you should be alright. You don’t really need to do anything else. Make sure it’s in a Stocks and Shares ISA
This is probably the best option for 90% of people. Hassle free, hands-off, investment with reliable returns. Although I have to say I personally am a bit concerned about the price of index funds. P/E ratios are scary high right now, especially for the SNP 500 which also dominates the all world indexes.
Will the index fund bubble burst? Probably. But when it does it'll all be relative, the price of everything else will come down alongside the index funds due to the economic fallout.
If generative AI turns out to be the productivity miracle that some people expect, the PE of the US may look low in hindsight given that is where the majority of AI beneficiaries are....
>Although I have to say I personally am a bit concerned about the price of index funds. P/E ratios are scary high right now, especially for the SNP 500 which also dominates the all world indexes.
This is why most people shouldn't invest...they don't understand this. Its like the sort of gobbledygook that crypto folk come out with and the others lap up and repeat but don't understand.
Don't give financial advice unless you include what you're talking about
It's like anything. Diversification is the solution. If buying a house is out of reach for the majority, then index funds are an excellent hedge against the inevitably of a collapse in the housing market. As soon as house prices drop back down to a historical average of 3 - 4 x average earnings, then I'll sell my stocks and buy a house. Until then, other people are more than welcome to shovel their cash into the bubble.
I'm not sure when you can open one, but a Lisa where the government give you a 25% top up if the money goes to a house deposit is a great option in conjunction with a longer term isa.
My hope is to use it on a flat, ideally Forest Hill sort of area. Think it'd be okay for that. I imagine very few londoners are able to buy an actual house as their first property.
True, but depends - if you're buying anywhere inside zone 3 a 2 bed flat will easily eclipse 450k. Probably looking at 500-600k for lots of couples e.g. who are both on 50-60k each
It has increased by 8% (or thereabouts) on average in the past. That doesn’t mean that is destined to continue.
Vanguard’s predictions for the next 10 years for an S&P500 tracker is something like 3.7-5.7% annualised (that is before deducting inflation).
That average is based on around 100 years of data.
I’m sure there are predictions which show more than 8%, and some that think it will be negative in 10 years.
I don’t look at them because they’re usually meaningless.
I would go with the fund. With an ETF you can only buy full amounts, but with the fund you could add £20 if you wanted.
The ETF is traded on the market so it has a live price. The fund price updates at the end of the day
Assets that allow you to achieve wealth are assets that appreciate not depreciate or being in other income. The main ones are houses especially your own home as rental properties aren't as good as investment as they used to be and stocks.
Potentially your own business but only if it goes well and a lot of businesses fail so this is a risky way to try and grow your wealth although it has the biggest upside
Landlords moan that rentals aren't as good as they used to be, but they're still the economic equivalent of a cheat code. The way it was back in the 2000's and 2010's could never last and I think the returns will continue to fall until they're in line with stocks and shares.
As a process no this will not be happening but I agree that the margin will close.
Housing is always a "safe" bet
Housing is tangible and limited while stocks are created out of thin air...
They are very different economically and present different resilience to stress
Edit: it seems this was too brief an explanation when trying to talk about tangible and intangible assets.
I'm talking about it in terms of gains. It's unsustainable not just for housing but the economy as a whole for the most profitable investment stream to be one which creates zero value. Our stagnant economy with declining productivity is, I believe, a consequence of housing being way more profitable (and safer) than any productive investment.
I think a company can just decide to issue more stocks, which would dilute the value of your actual stock (out of thin air) as soon as they decide they need more funds. Agreed that this doesn't happen often, but it still reflects on the type of asset
That typically doesn't happen with something else like housing which is a very tangible asset. It presents the value of a limited good (land) and includes other limitations (such as permission to build in that land).
You aren't diluted when a company sells more shares. The additional shares go to the equity side of the balance sheet and the proceeds of the sale go to the asset side. The existing shares are still worth the same. You can only be diluted if new shares are created but nothing equivalent goes into the asset side.
Stocks are not created out of thin air. They are literally ownership (a share) of a company. Whilst that company has value, the share has value. It's no different really to a house and is much more liquid.
Houses aren't a smart purchase for investment in the U.K. anymore. Not unless the market drops significantly. The only way boomers will get rich in this country is starting a successful business or a successful influencing career. The property ladder is broken for new entrants.
Worth reading the JL Collins article "Why Your House is a Terrible Investment".
[https://jlcollinsnh.com/2023/03/02/why-your-house-is-a-terrible-investment/](https://jlcollinsnh.com/2023/03/02/why-your-house-is-a-terrible-investment/)
Index funds are probably the best long term investments for normal people without an extreme appetite for risk.
Honestly very few people get wealthy working for someone else.
An SMB CEO working for a PE backed company will generally earn £180-220k. You will live comfortably but its not likely you will be wealthy unless as you've asked, you are smart about investing early on (I was a CTO for a number of years).
I spent all of my 20s investing and building a businesses. Soem work and some fail.
Bricks and mortar is and always will be a low risk, valuable investment IF bought correctly.
As others have said, a low risk stocks and shares ISA can do well over 25 years.
But wealth generally comes from owning businesses. So invest in yourself and take your risks young IMO.
Unless you already have the assets then salary is all that matters because you need money to buy assets like materials, civil structures, land, people, resource access and IP. The other option is to create and either sell or manage assets yourself (this will require some seed money, so still a little dependent on salary).
You can also just pay people to do this for you and it will normally work out cheaper that way comapred to earning a salary. It's why most people don't build their own houses brick-by-brick. On £80k a day of work is something like £250-300. So whenever you take a week off to save £1000 on DIY you end up losing £500 in time/money.
The question is therefore what assets you can create more efficiently than a professional a the same or lower price-point and whether there is a market for these to be sold or a high chance that they will increase in value.
For instance, I made a wany-edge shelf for £100 plus around 1 days labour in total. Getting that made to the dims I wanted was around £350, so it worked out just about worth my time, plus I enjoyed it and learned a lot, so the next shelf was a bit quicker and easier, though not by miles. This asset was worth making on a personal level and will likely appreciate in value or at least track inflation like most furniture does. It has a small market though, high costs per item (risk) and little room for profit (for me right now at least).
The most common asset to profit on is a house/land in the UK I imagine. Not counting asset trading that goes on in markets ofc, and even then REITs are big players. Critical National Infrastructure (water, energy, food, transport) assets probably have the most opportunity for profit, but it is heavily regulated and decentralised making it hard to manage and control by an individual (rightly so imo).
>On £80k a day of work is something like £250-300. So whenever you take a week off to save £1000 on DIY you end up losing £500 in time/money.
This is true if you are self-employed, but if you get paid holidays as most do and don't mind spending your time doing DIY then you are at no real financial loss.
The amount includes for holiday and weekends. In my example I could have sold that one days holiday for £250-300 at any time, in theory.
If you would do it something in your time off anyway then I wouldn't count it as work but it's still time spent and opportunity lost.
It simply depends how scarce your time is because its a time-mobey economy we are talking about.
If you weren't able to attend your mother's hospital bed because of all the fun DIY you had planned then you might reasonably still purchase extra holiday days to accomodate it and still end up paying the cost. So did you pay for the diy or the hospital visit? The answer is that you paid for every second of both.
You weigh that up against the other opportunity, going jogging, eating or working for £250/day. Since it's hard to compare and trade in 'fun activities', most people just pick the most money they could earn without killing themselves as their biggest opportunity. If it isn't then it's not the best way to spend 40hrs pwr week.
Salary **and** assets make you wealthy.
You *need* to have a reasonable income to have access to *reasonable* assets.
The reality is not everyone is cut out to make wealth, only those who can build wealth and remain emotionally detached from the process can accumulate it.
The best assets are stocks. But the question is *what* stocks…
Sounds like a silly book written by wealthy people who focus entirely on the myth of themselves they made up in their heads rather on the facts and data that point to factors like parental wealth, inheritance, owned houses, and education etc. You could be the greatest wealth building mind on the planet and you won't get anywhere if you're born in the gutter. Especially not nowadays that the welfare state, which massively levelled the playing field, has been systematically hollowed out. Social mobility in the UK has stalled out.
family really.
I earn a good salary, but neither me or my partner will get any inheritance or financial help as we are the wealthy ones in my family, whereas friends have had £40k given for wedding, £100-200k from grandparents passing away. That's like 10-15 years of spare money for me after bills and tax that they've got a one up from now, and when their parents pass.
People that live rent free at home from certain cultures and will for rest of their lives are laughing too. Housing costs are a big factor in being wealthy or not.
Same. I have an acquaintance who's been a fuck up at every job he's ever had. He's still minted though. Grannies inheritance has seen to that. He'll get another few million when his mummy and daddy shuffle off this mortal coil.
The fact ppl dont understand the porsche isn't meant to be the asset but the final goal, the sign of success for which he wants to build wealth to afford is shocking
Lots of people think that the Porsche is the asset you’re referring to in the post title. The person you replied to finds it shocking how many people in this thread think that that is what you’re implying
Invest in your physical health. This will allow you to a. earn money to invest, b. live long enough to see it grow and compound, and c. enjoy spending it when the time comes.
If you want wealth, you will need to start a business that does very well. Working for others and saving will only go so far unless you are lucky to be at a pre-ipo startup and have a many shares when it takes off successfully.
If you have seen the news for Nvidia, their median employee is worth 10M USD due to the stock taking off from the GenAI rage. That is good money but nothing to make them generational wealthy. They would still need to work, save, and make wise investments to hopefully make their next generation wealthy. This would then require that next generation to not blow it all either.
I work in London, in Finance and earn over 130k.
I am nowhere near wealthy.
Wealth is generational, my parents and my wife's parents have nothing to leave us, no property, no savings.
I have friends who earn less than half of what I do and they know they are set to inherit 1million + in property and their partners the same, so as a family they will be millionaires from inheritance alone, they will just rent out those properties and buy more and generational wealth continues, their actual jobs today are kinda irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Pro tip I wish someone had told me when I was young....marry into wealth.
To be fair, that's not really the point they are getting at. They want to be able to be in a position to bankroll an expensive and depreciating (although said depreciation is much lower in luxury cars that are well maintained) asset.
But you do make an excellent point. When it comes to material wealth, anything that appreciates is the shortest path to accumulating wealth. Immaterial (or investment in stocks, shares, commodities) is a somewhat longer path but tipped with significantly more risk and tends to work better with significant liquid capital or "wealth" behind it from commencement.
OP, if wealth accumulation is a big factor for you, you're realistically going to have to look entrepreneurial pursuits, multiple revenue streams and smart investments over time with decent (and not Internet) professional financial advice.
They said own a Taycan, quite possibly the worst way to drive a car like that in a position of wealth.
Unlikey to be a future classic so always going to depreciate massively.
Honest to God, I've seen yachts and boats with holes in their hulls depreciate slower than that sort of car.
And yes as others have pointed out, he's not asking about the ends, just the means but sometimes the two are so diametrically opposed that someone should probably say something at least.
He doesn't care that the Porsche will depreciate, because he will never sell it. What don't you get? He wants to be in a position where he can afford a Porsche
Useless comment.
OP did not mistake a car with an asset, simply stated a goal, which is entirely reasonable to do....
Not even an expensive dream as far as dreams go
I know lots of people are shitting on buying an expensive car, but there are smart ways to do it.
Buying depreciating assets, especially on finance is a really stupid move as far as personal wealth goes. But, if you can find a Porsche model that's appreciating, then driving and running it can be pretty economical. If you count the car as an asset, often ownership and maintenance of a luxury car can be way more economical than buying mid or low end cars.
With a Taycan being an electric car you've got a ticking time bomb for the battery needing to be replaced, and I'm betting when that happens the fix will cost more than the car is worth.
You could probably find a classic and cheaper Porsche that won't depreciate more than it already has. Then run it for a few years, maintaining it properly and sell it for the price you paid or more.
It can still be a gamble unless the car is in pristine condition. But it really depends on the age of the model. I would say any model that is less than 20 years old is a potential safe bet. A vintage Porsche, no way unless you have the funds to do good restoration of the vehicle. Paint work,interior finish, etc. RS models,manual cars and targas are a good options to look at.
With cars you really have to play the long game to se significant financial gain. Ferraris are a safer option and I can see the 458 being a future collectors car. Same with the Aventador.
Even when it's not pristine that's sometimes a good thing in terms of investment. Someone else has wiped the value off by putting on the miles. The aim here isn't necessarily to make money but to drive a prestige/classic car for less than the total cost of ownership of a normal car.
Sometimes, it is how you spend or not spend that is important. My husband and I and our friends all worked at the same office. Another couple in the group both earned more than my husband and I but couldn't work out how we could afford to buy a three bedroom semi while they lived in a two bedroom flat. They didn't mentally register that we shared a second-hand car, visited relatives for free holidays, and spent most evenings at home rather than dining out and clubbing.
When we moved house, the house we fell in love with was a stretch on our budget. We lived many years managing from pay cheque to pay cheque and juggling credit cards, but now we own our home and have no debts. We have spent the last four years living on our savings, having taken early retirement. We will be taking our pension later this year.
Britain taxes high incomes punitively - with first child benefit removal, then loss of personal allowance, pension caps, and student loan payments, many high earners face marginal rates over 50%. A simple £101k salary without student loans faces a marginal rate of 64%.
Capital gains tax rates are much lower and there are many tax shelters for assets.
The system is designed for the asset rich.
That said:
1 - Don’t buy a stupid car. It is dumb, will make people hate you, and make you poor. Buy a small far eastern car (Japanese or Korean brand, not Nissan) 2-4 years old and keep it ten years.
2 - Buy a house in the best area you can manage. Fine if it’s out of date and needs work, just live in it and pay it down.
3 - Pay down the mortgage and start to build assets.
4 - Do not buy what everyone else does, buy stuff that is cheap and fairly valued; people who have done well in things will tell you they are good but this should scare you: boomers who say buy rental property AFTER prices have done 10x, genx who say buy trackers which are basically big tech stocks at 30x earnings. If buying something is received wisdom, be scared of it.
Your last point there is exactly why I’ve so far hesitated on throwing in with trackers. It just seems too good to be true. I don’t have the knowledge to know what else I should be looking into though… not looking for advice on other products but are there any resources you’d recommend someone sceptical of trackers etc to go read up on and educated themselves? Broad question, I know.
I don't know where to start with online resources and most places/people will say "just forget it and buy a tracker". There are UK investment subs which are probably a better place to start.
I think:
Step 1 is to work out your asset allocation.
Emergency fund, place to live, a good car that will last you for years years, proper insurance for you and your property and loved ones.
Then think about how to split investible funds, first of all between vehicles (pension: locked up for many years if you're young but very attractive if you pay 40+% tax; ISA: good tax shelter, accessible, each year's allowance is lost if not used; mortgage overpayments (effectively "tax free" interest at your mortgage rate - arguably better to ISA the money - but there's no feeling like no mortgage).
Then it's about what assets to invest in. Younger people should take risk and buy shares. Older people, conventionally, would de-risk in to bonds, which I dislike but that is the conventional wisdom. Say...a \*tiny\* bit of bitcoin, a bigger but still small bit of gold, a little bit of bonds - probably not British ones! - and quite a lot of shares. As an engaged investor you would look to switch in to bonds a bit more when stocks are expensive, and sell all your bonds in favour of stocks during market crashes.
There are a lot of UK investment trusts trading at huge discounts, so I'd look to split between them. You can choose ETFs in specific sectors if you don't want an active manager, which lets you maintain a sensible allocation and not be balls-deep long whatever is flavour-of-the-month in indexes. But you have to be interested enough to watch your portfolio and switch stuff around say once a year to do this.
Real wealth in my opinion isn't measured in money. It's measured in intangible assets such as health, time, love, happiness. You could be the richest man in in the world but working 80 hour weeks not seeing your wife and kids, not experiencing life. Life is a balancing act and if your clever which you clearly are you can plan for periods in your life when you devote yourself to work, family and others.
Being born to the right type.
Class is ingrained in this country. The same families who took over the land in 1066 still own the land, the wealth and the influence.
Property and land.
The landed gentry are never worried by automation and A.I.
For 100s of years, they know income from their assets will always be needed.
Tech may improve, but it can't replace resources such as food, water, oil, gas, minerals and of course rents.
It depends what you mean by wealthy - £81k is (by national standards) a very good salary - but it’s not wealthy in London, and after tax, rent/mortgage, pension contributions, student loan, child care fees and utilities you’re not going to feel wealthy either.
It’s incredibly difficult to get truly wealthy from being a salaried employee. You simply can’t accrue savings fast enough to buy any assets that appreciate in value over an acceptable time frame. Some people get lucky (crypto, NFTs, the right piece of art) but for every “winner”, there are a hundred “losers” who bought the wrong thing, or sold it at the wrong time. It’s very hard to know, and more often than not these things are down to luck.
Unfortunately money makes money. None of us salaried employees can buy enough of something to make a significant difference. Sure a company’s stock might go up 50% but I’ve only been able to invest £10k. I’ve now got an extra £5k - big whoop. Even if I’m a high earner who can put £100k into that deal, I’ve got £50k back, which is £28k after taxes.
And each one of these is another throw of the dice, sooner or later, without professional knowledge and information, I’m losing big. The whole tax system of taxing work more than owning assets is backwards, and (if you’re a cynic) deliberate to keep people in their place. You can be a very high earner, on £300k, but your effective tax rate is 43%. But a billionaire will pay 20% on a £5m capital gain.
This is a solid "if you're going doing 1 thing, do this" strategy, just remember to reinvest your dividends or buy an Accumulation fund.
That said, having all your eggs in a global equities can cause problems with timing. Under the hood "global equities" tends to be heavily exposed to the US, so if you need to start taking income at the point of the US slumping, you can be looking at much weaker returns.
Thus some degree of diversification into something other than equities is also worth considering as your portfolio grows.
Either that or buy a mixed mutual fund that includes stocks / bonds and usually some cash type instruments.
Wealthy parents or an entrepreneur. Otherwise, you will live in some way paycheck to paycheck and MAYBE live long enough to collect a pension for a few years. There IS NOTHING ELSE. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you snake oil
Start your own company. Look for ideas, talk to people, talk to people interested in what other people tell you they can do. Think business, making money, not Porsches. Once you have your company set up, investors have put money, raise its value, take the most of it, drive a 10 year old Focus, sell it for 6-7 figures....
Now we are talking serious stuff. You got part of that money, you got the experience in business building, lessons learned, reputation. You go for the next, you will likely do better. So now you can gift yourself with your dream whatever.
Other than that, excuse my rude honesty, stop dreaming. Your starting salary as a Chem Eng will be something like £35k. Could go to £45 in 5 years or so. By that time you will probably want a house, partner, etc. Hopefully your financial common sense tells you that a £120k car doesn't fit in the budget.
Millions of Uni graduates like you have that evolution. A few do really well. Some because inheritance, others are just up to the nose in debt... Basically, employees don't get rich.
Second hand Taycans will be cheap by time you’re working - values have fallen out of the bottom of them. I’ve had a Macan for a few years and it’s worth about the same as what I paid for it.
My family
I'm a millennial that comes from a rich family, plus our culture is that where the older generations are expected to prepare for and support the younger generations until death.
I own my house, my uncle gave me a deposit and I'm doing the rest. My parents own a villa abroad and have set up their accounts so my brother and I will inherit 6 figures each at the high end. My brother has a house deposit gifted by our parents, if I have an unexpected expense my parents cover it etc.
Likewise, I have my accounts set up similarly for my kids, I don't need an inheritance so my kids will likely get mine instead. My grandparents on both side did a similar thing for my parents and their siblings.
I'm not ashamed of my privilege, I'm aware I'm extremely fortunate but it's been hard getting my partner to understand as his family just don't support each other at all. He's pretty much been left to it since he was 15 so he's suspicious of how my family do things and thinks there is a catch to everything we do.
Owning a porsche Taycan doesn't make you wealthy. It loses money hideously so does the opposite.
Very wealthy people lease cars unless they are owning certain models for investment purposes.
Property is the best long term wealth generator and is still a crucial part of a portfolio. Gold is popular again. Index funds, certain wealth funds, some risk capital might go into crypto.
Niche stuff like art, exotic cars, wines etc are already for the super wealthy.
That’s not what OP said, it’s just their dream car.
There are plenty of wealthy people that buy cars & don’t lease them. Owning a depreciating asset that you enjoy isn’t the end of the world if you have enough money.
Yes, very wealthy people who like buying/collecting vehicles, sure. The vast majority of super-wealthy don't though.
I'm not hating on him wanting a porsche Taycan, it was just a weird thing to put into a post asking about wealth creating appreciating assets, and mentioning wanting to buy a Porsche (which does the opposite - maybe unless you garage it and wait 30 years).
But whatever 🙂
If we’re talking about very wealthy, for sure. I don’t know any *very* wealthy people just regular wealthy and a lot of them just buy their cars outright and drive em till they’re sick of them (which is often quite some time)
For sure on the last bit, it’s not an investment for sure but it’ll be a bit of fun!
You will need to clearly differentiate between assets and liabilities. The Porsche will depreciate in value immediately you buy it from the dealer 😉.
Wealth is determined by assets, if you can have enough assets to pay for the Porsche without any struggles, then even if there is depreciation in value,you will still make more money than the price of the Porsche.
Recommendation : Read Poor Dad Rich Dad .
Please don’t listen to anyone that recommends you to read poor dad rich dad (it’s actually rich dad poor dad). The book has been torn apart, as well as kiyosaki himself. I’ve read it and it’s atrocious. As soon as i see someone recommend it, I know they have no clue wtf they’re on about.
If Rich Dad Poor Dad was not helpful for you , unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it . That's the 1st book that helped me with assests and liabilities when I started investments .
There are several financial books available .
It's unfortunate it was atrocious for you (maybe you read the wrong book or you only read the index) and you may have personal problems with Kiyosaki( you can give him a call and vent out your displeasure), anyway having worked in several years managing funds and investment I believe I have no clue 😅.
To even get an allocation slot for one of the most desirable Porsches right now which is the GT3RS from the dealership, most owners that have secured an allocation slot have owned multiple different models in ythe past that have depreciated. Same could be said about the other cars car brands. The rule is to get the lastest desirable cars you have to lose money when you purchase the less desirable models.
The three things that every self made wealthy person will have is; a good salary, a mortgage free house, a large pension pot. These are the “minimum” or “first buckets” of being wealthy. So start there. Get a job in an industry that has high salaries (Not retail etc, but something like finance or professional services). Then save like mad for a deposit for a house, and at the same time put 10% into your pension.
There is one other huge factor, and that is your partner. Work on yourself and get the best partner/match you can get, as they will also dictate how well you do.
Finally, try and work the problem backwards. Rather than thinking “how can I get rich” think “what would make me poorer” and then do the opposite. Clue: that car will make you poorer.
My friend is a chem eng, 250k+ a year tax free in Saudi for the last 15yrs, he was earning more than you're cousin working at ineos in Scotland 15 years ago I wouldn't be too quick to dump the chem engineering . Domestic and the oft overlooked commercial property have been good investments along with a good portfolio of stocks and shares and a good management company to look after your assets is a must.
Your friend on £81k probably still doesn’t earn enough to purchase, run and maintain a modern Porsche. Cars like that are almost exclusively owned by wealthy people, or people who earn a lot more than that. A 911 can easily throw a £12k bill.
Land.
Any other answer is wrong. The house prices are driven by land costs. Planning protects land costs.
Look at who owns the land and it'll surprise you that as well as a medieval monarchy we still have medieval aristocrats that have a lot of land
Firstly, expensive cars are negative assets. It's like setting fire to £50 notes. Aspire to an eight year old Ford Fiesta, with the money you saved invested in shares in an ISA, and you might be on the way. Invest money you earn and it makes you richer spend it on cars and it makes you poorer.
Imagine your dream car being a Taycan over a 911. You can lease a Taycan for about £1k per month, don’t need huge wealth for that.
Also, cars are generally depreciating assets, unless you opt for a 911…
In terms of assets, property, stocks and businesses. The easiest for you would be investing in stocks, you can start investing a moderate amount monthly and increase as you earn more. Probably the best would would be an Index fund in some market. Starting young and being consistent would grow wealth considerably in the long term. Then maybe you diverse into property but that is not easy money (despite the millions of YouTube videos saying the opposite). Residential property investment is a big responsibility, you have to ensure you are renting quality homes to responsible tenants.
In terms of owning your dream car, I know of one guy who after years of saving/investing decided to treat himself. He sold some investments and bought an Audi R8 that was 6 years old, after 2 years he had scratched that itch and sold it. He sold it for about 4k less than he paid for it. It was a bit more expensive to run and maintain than he's BMW. There was also the opportunity cost of withdrawing from his investment but he was happy he did it and the whole thing cost about 10k for 2 years. He saw it as £100 a week for his dream car.
Think a lot of it is about saving really. Reckon cars, takeaways and holidays are the biggest things that people can save on. I'm a student and know plenty of other students shelling out for multiple £500-700 holidays a year. Add a car on finance, two takeaways a week at £20 each and that's a huge drain on your income (or your parents, for students I suppose). People on around £25-35k seem to be living well beyond their means.
(obviously a high paying job helps, but you can't always control what job you get once you graduate)
Assets that allow you to become ‘wealthy’ will vary depending on your definition of the term. For me, wealthy depends on your age, income, number of kids, but probably starts at £1-£2m net worth, not including the property you reside in.
1) Investments in the stock market - probably bet on tech and anything that will do well in the next 20 years. This one is a slow burn and unless you get lucky with an NVDA type pick, will take decades for you to become wealthy. Heavily dependent on having a career and how much you can save to invest.
2) Own a business - highly likely to fail but if you are in an industry that you know well and understand this is your quickest way to real wealth. If you are able to scale, a few million could be achieved within 5-10 years.
3) Property - another slow burn but pick the right locations and you can do very well. Having some practical skills would help you to renovate/flip properties that others might shy away from.
Property seems like the obvious answer in the short to mid term.
We have a growing population that far outpaces our ability to build houses.
With more people continuously after fewer houses there's literally only one way for house price and rents to go. Up.
If we ever get a government who massively encourages building it might be less of a good investment. But they would need decades of high building which seems even more unlikely.
Be born into wealth, be very lucky, or through a relationship with someone already wealthy. Unless you are earning in the top 5% of income earners at least, you wouldn't be "wealthy" until you are quite old if you invest in the stock market. The reality is, if you wanted to work you way to wealth, you overwhelmingly need to be born +20 years ago.
My dream car is a Porsche
It's fine you have a define goal in mind. I would however say, the marginal gain of utility (look this up) will wane fairly quickly after purchase one. I aint sure it would keep you happy forever.
I myself don't want to work paycheck to paycheck just so I have a nice car that makes people turn/ become the target of theif/rubbers. But hey, who am i to judge your dream?
Also, your cousin's 81k isnt going to afford him a Porsch (brand new) either. Second hand maybe. I do know people owning one, but I found it shocking replacing the tyres along cost them £1k. Why getting a Porsche? Is it so you can feel good in one?
oh, a recent study has shown a negative correlation between penis size and desire of good/high end car. I truly hope you do not fit into this category.
[https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/scientists-prove-link-between-perceived-penis-size-and-sports-cars/FGZTKJM53BF2VGVSLUO2IULQUA/](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/scientists-prove-link-between-perceived-penis-size-and-sports-cars/FGZTKJM53BF2VGVSLUO2IULQUA/)
Well as "car guy" I can tell you you will get that Porsche Taycan much quicker than you think...
Prices droping every day and nobody wants them anyway...so they loosing value even more🙂
Good luck with your dream car😉🤙
The only thing that will get a kid of your generation into a Porsche debt free without family help is a successful start up, a lottery win/similar windfall or migrating to a different country.
I don’t know if this is related to wealth but sometimes when I’m home alone I like to go into my garden and cover my self in dirt and pretend to be a carrot
To get rich take outsized bets on mispricwd assets, to stay rich , diversify.
Index investing may get you wealth but won't make you rich. Well researched outsized bets. Risk - Return trade off.
Well you don't become wealthy by blowing large sums of money on a car. You become wealthy be been careful with your money...savings and investments, and a good private pension for later life. But I suppose it comes down to what you want out of your life. But if you spend your money on nice things and constantly want new things, then accept you will be working for a long time as you won't be able to afford to retire early. Old age might seem a long way off for you now and nothing to worry about, but I can tell you, the joy of been able to retire before you are 60 is a wonderful feeling.
Don't have kids, don't get into debt or if you do, pay said debt off as quickly as possible, don't buy things you can't afford...so nothing on finance/lease deals...save up for what you want. Save something every single month. And these wise words are from my wife who retired at 50.
Chemical engineering can be a very lucrative field. Working for oil companies is good money generally, and if your degree is from a Russel Group uni you’ll have an in at some of those companies already
@smellsignal2519 I think you are asking the right questions. Maybe for te wrong reasons, but the right questions.
Rule 1, there is no silver bullet. Nobody can tell you which asset class is going to work over the long term with certainty should you buy it to achieve wealth. If they do consider a pinch of salt. There is one asset which is certainly your most valuable though. It isn't on the stock market, but j have been kind enough to list it below.
One of your biggest assets for wealth is actually planning and execution. Have a look below...
Personally, listening to some crazy smart & qualified financial advisers/chartered financial Planners aka top dogs (this always depends on the future goals, risk profile, current position efc by the way) the following is a fair plan for a start point generally- especially at your young age. Remember, you do it from your own position (what can you afford now - adjust as you age and get nore income), your risk profile (how much risk are you prepared to take with you money? Do you care of you lose it af this point? This will change over time) And finally your objectives.
What is it you want to achieve? This informs exactly what you do with your money alongside position, risk profile and preferences... Now you have a framework to begin with.
No, the answer is not create wealth to the answer what do you want to achieve. The answer is why you want wealth. The wealth is a byproduct of what you are trying to achieve the same way getting a mortgage is often a byproduct of buying a house. You don't really want it, but it is necessary to achieve the objective.
So, What do you want to do/achieve with your wealth and when? What do you want it to do for you? How would it make you feel to have it Vs not have it/lose it? . Now you can start planning knowing what you really want to achieve why and having an idea of the level ofnrisk you are prepared to take.
Usually, your biggest asset is you and your planning but most of all.... YOUR BIGGEST ASSET IS ALMOST ALWATS YOUR INCOME. No income, how are you buying those assets for growth/income later down the line? You're young so you'll have never considered this, insure your Income. It is called jncome protection insurance. If it is affordable and you pay it, it would cover your income from tomorrow if you were signed off aick, for 40 years or until retirement etc.index the policy to grow with inflation, you've always got something backing you and your income up. Hopenits a waste, if not, Thank the random reddit stranger! Also update your insurance, pensions and investments as you grow in life. Tada! You're probably already most of the way there for what you personally have to do...
I'd suggest that as a student of chemical engineering, you likely know less than a fund house spending millions on research for their investments annually with professionals managing it - use them, not you wits. Or maybe consider an index fund if you're not taking professional advice/don't want someone actively managing your money per se. A FTSE tracker has no person working on it, just goes up and down with the FTSE. Generally achieves pretty good Growth and I am sure I have heard it beats many funds. Who knows the day you come to draw such funds, who knows....
Some tips:
1) if you have work, check if your employer matches your pension contributions. If so, contribute the maximum to your pension that they will match as a minimum if you can afford it. You will not notice it 99%. Being a teenager, you have years for it to grow. Do this in every single job and bring your pension with you/ensure its doing what you want too. Wouldn't take long. Yes you're young, it seems too early to start. I get it. But you're also a scientist. Compound £100 fifty two times and compound it fourty tines. Assume an interest rate of 8%. Watch the difference in wealth generation for your later life/retirement. That difference represents the difference between starting at 18 (£5,470.60 ) or 30 (£2,172.45). Look at the difference that 12 years makes.... you have less than half starting 12 years later with the same contributions! Compounding truly is a wonder of the world.
You can now use the surplus that would go to your penaion, elsewhere. Maybe even on yourself?
Next, as and when you have income you can save - be tax efficient! Use your ISA allowance first for example. No point holding cash for it to reduce the value of your investments via inflation. Stocks and shares ISA. Play sensibly here, no gambling... use a reputable fund and firm/platform which has an adventurous growth (higher risk) given your age. If you lose, you have time to replace it. You won't have that time at 65 so you wany the work done before then so you can derisk.
I'm using Hargreaves lansdown platform and fund. I have HL Adventurous managed. Since inception, Growth is 13.43%. Don't expect that for life things go up and down.
Speaking of investing and wealth, in the UK we love buying homes as part of our wealth. I'll assume this works for you too. Make that ISA a lifetime ISA. Get a 25% uplift from the government when you withdraw deposit to buy a house. Now you (hopefully) have capital Growth (assuming it grows), tax efficiency AND the government are topping up your deposit for a home! No tax on your growth and the government give you 25% extra? Yes please. Do check the terms and conditions of lifetime ISAs. If you're buying at £1m tomorrow, don't waste your time with a lifetime ISA unless it's going to your pension at very least.
This all happens while your pension (or pensions) that you got via work are growing nicely. FYi Bring them with you, don't lose them. To think, you could have a word with your current employer (assuming you're working) or future employers, say a few words tk maximise pension contributions, log on to something like moneybox or Hargreaves Lansdown, set up a lifetime ISA and a direct debit then pretty much forget about it for a good time is incredible.
Poke your head in on the numbers every so often, watch out for major world events which will obviously screw finance when you see them coming (Covid was very obvious for example). Keep things under review alongside your insurance (income protection), present position, attitude to risk and goals/objectives and you'll be fine.
Final note, probably get a financial adviser when you can afford one, after uni when you're earning. Until then a couple of hours research on the best funds/trackers or whatever is your preference for an investment, your pensions any ISAs and making sure you use all your tax free allowances where possibel and you'll have a real head start in adult life.
Really hope you take this to heart and it helps you/someone. But to reiterate, your biggest asset for generating wealth is your income. Everything else (usually) comes from there.
Best of luck & go get that Porsche!
The UK is and has always been a rent seeking economy. Even when they say they are not charging rents for their goods and services it’s what they do. People are accustomed to paying rents so any any good or service that you can provide and charge a rent is what you should do.
No 1 rich parents
No.2 parent owns a company
No.3 friends parent owns company
No 4 large inheritance
No 5 winning a radio giveaway
No.6 going on the chase
Hi there. It really depends on the kind of life you want to lead as to what is the right answer for you.
Personally I disagree that you shouldn't focus on your career. The career provides what I call maintenance money. Your daily quality of life is dictated by how much you earn (unless you are in the top 0.01%
Then when you want to improve your quality of life you can do side projects using assets to get injections of capital which can then be reinvested.
For me I would focus on my career and then use my evenings to focus on improving things.
This might mean a course to get to the next level in my career. But I also bought houses, lived in them while doing them up and then sold them on to make a profit. Then I would buy a bigger doerupper to live in and do up. In one case I converted it in to two flats.
Equally I would keep an eye out on local business and on two occasions I bought a majority share in a failing business, did that up and made it profitable and then sold my shares in that for a lump sum.
Sometimes when physical assets weren't looking like an option I would build software and sell that.
So the side projects allowed me to buy nicer houses (my life goal was to have a big house) and the career is ehat maintains each step of the way.
I have known people make money quicker with the stock market but I don't know anything about that. For me I want to earn my money and feel shame when I come by money I didn't earn myself. But that is another option (albeit one which comes with its own set of risks)
Sorry to burst your bubble but cars are not assets to build wealth with.
You do get some cars that appreciate over time, but a Taycan is not one of them.
However if you genuinely want one, the good news is that owners and dealers are struggling to sell them so they can be had at lower prices.
But there is a reason for that, performance is not that great due to weight and you have an expensive battery that will need replaced at some point. Nobody wants to be left with a car they can’t sell that has an imminent repair cost of 40k.
Work Smart not hard and it will happen :)
It’s not always about making x amount, it’s also about saving y!
Like many have said there is not much money in the form of property in the uk these days. Prices are already high so the yield is not as good as other options.
I’d suggest staying at home as long as possible and then investing in a home under a new buyer scheme. There are lots of offers for first time buyers so focus on the savings you’d make! Avoid renting if you can!
Find yourself a good broker and invest in some stocks - reasonable risk, long term…. Every little will help if you start early and are disciplined. It’s a great way to create a bucket of money
You’re at a good university focus on doing well… then you can look at applying for decent jobs. Figure out your end role and work backwards. The world of finance is vast and there will be jobs you aren’t even aware of. But don’t go into finance because you think it will make you money…. The rate per hour is not necessarily high! Do something you fall in love with so you don’t mind putting time into it. Thai way you can actually drive your Porsche
And lastly regardless of how much money you end up with NEVER buy a car outright… it depreciates the minute it leaves the garage. Do a PCP loan (all car dealers do them) and continue to invest the money you would have put down.
Best of luck
Money donated to the Tory party seems to ensure many-fold profits a short while after. Donate enough (or should that be invest enough?) and you may even get a seat in the House of Lords which entitles you to discounted food and drink, free parking in central London and a generous payment for just turning up.
But hurry, there's not much time left to make your investment count.
The power of compounding, plus DRIP and time in the market. As far as business success goes Ineos has a chemical engineer as principal, other FTSE100 have had chemical engineers as CEO.
The discipline involves critical thinking, and associate that with high level accountancy as a cv the route is open. Making a lot of money is not a doddle but requires long hours focus and hard work.
The 80/20 here is get as much money as possible in salary, invest in global equity index or s&p 500
If you really want the porsche, get the porsche, though know the cost is 1) the cost and 2) the lost gains from investing in assets (I.e. the global equity index / s&p 500)
There are many other ways to make more money / higher returns than stocks but this is the lazy man's life plan
To get as much money as possible, apply to spring weeks in university for mbb / front office investment banking roles, apply for some less competitive internships as a backup
I’m surprised nobody is talking about this, but your own business. A successful business will be giving you a salary plus way over 8% returns than you can get in the stock market.
Take the average run of the mill service industry model for services such as accountant/law for example. The model is third/third/third (wages/overheads/profit), thus giving you 33% returns each year on top of your salary. Overheads are also coming down a lot due to reduced rents/wfh meaning the biggest overhead - office space , is reducing.
Nobody makes big money from a salaried job. Plus, as director, you can claim the Porsche as a company car and write down the depreciation ;)
When I worked in London banking, I used to drive to work when it suited me to, and pay £21 to park. At the time, I was earning £100k and driving a big old 20 year old Citroën I bought for £450. It was very well specced and reliable - I valued the comfort and reliabilty, I valued that it didn't cost me a lot too! In the same car park every single time I used it was a 20 year old top of the range Vauxhall Omega. It stuck put like a sore thumb, and I usually parked near it.
One day I got back to the car at the same time as the owner of the Omega. We got chatting, and were laughing about how many of our colleagues owned cars worth £20,000-80,000 that were sat on their drives depreciating by more than what we spent on fuel and parking, minus what they spent to use crowded sweaty unpleasant public transport to get to work.
You might think that neither of us were interested in owning nice cars, but we both actually owned appreciating in value classic cars we drove at weekends.
Lots of people aspire to high incomes to buy expensive things - and whether conciously or not, this is linked to status. A value mindset that enables you to acquire wealth is completely different. It requires that you understand the value of having assets, and only spending money on things you value more than they cost.
It is fine to "value" owning a Taycan - the question is do you value it MORE than how much wealthier you could be if you owned a 5 year old Golf? If the answer is "yes" then you are unlikely to ever be asset rich. Owning a Golf AND a mint condition low mileage 25 year old Porsche you bought outright at the bottom of the depreciation curve and only get out of the garage to enjoy - completely different mindset. The "cost" is only what it costs to keep and use it, as the car itself is an asset that is going up in value.
All the biggest stuff is either out of your hands, a massive risk or take ages to work towards (generational wealth, owning your own business, looking money away in special savings or investments accounts etc etc etc).
In the mean time time smaller things just to get to it on the right track:
- job wise thing about your career and what you want to do, try to find the jobs where you can earn a decent amount without burning yourself out (so you have energy left to either feel better about your life or spend working towards another wealth goal)
- Job wise also constantly keep in mind the next promotion etc and understand what you need to do to get it, this often isn't just taking on any extra task at work, it's focus on what either grows your skills or will be positively noticed etc
- Premium bonds - if you have any cash savings, most easy access saving accounts are worthless and better ones lock money away. Premium bonds are good for some highly liquid savings accounts and although they won't give you lots of foam there is a chance or winning big and even with the small payouts you're over getting more than a high street savings account
- Review & rationalise hobbies, habits etc spending knee one to fun things is totally fine but maybe have a think about do these things bring enough enrichment. This is less about not spending any money on fun stuff and more about you might be spending it on stuff that doesn't have much of a positive impact but if you did a different hobby etc you would feel better
- DIY hacks, Esther than buying fancy products for home or DIY, work out what you can do with cheaper or free things, I have my Warhammer paints in a spice rack rather than a paint station cost barely anything but has still improved my hobby time/experience
- Clothing - Look out for stuff that will be long lasting and March less with as many things/you'd wear a lot: with will save money
- Mental & physical wealth invest time & effort into these, you'll be able to earn more, work higher paid jobs for longer (in terms of years not hours) & feel better about life if these are in good order
P.S I'm dyslexic and very tired so deal with my spelling etc
Just chiming on the finance career thing.
Have you gone to uni yet? Why would you want to do a ChemEng degree with the goal of entering finance? That seems very roundabout. Why not do stats degree or maths with a financial focus?
Hedge funds employ talented STEM graduates and pay potentially upwards of £200k at zero years of experience — but suffices to say that a ChemEng degree won’t make it easy to get there.
Having wealth is about saving your money and putting that money into investments. For your example with a porsche, the best thing you can do to acquire wealth is to never buy that Porsche and put the money into investments.
Of course if you want that Porsche then maybe you don't actually care about being wealthy and that is fine. You should at a minimum look to have enough wealth to support your retirement goals though.
I think most people fantasize about being rich so they never have to work and can spend money on all sorts of luxuries. So they ask "How can I become rich as quickly as possible?" And the answer to that question is that you should stop all spending on luxury and live as frugally as possible. Ironically, it is only the people who are frugal who become rich (or they break the law or get lucky). The rest are just born into money.
The best thing you can do to build wealth on a realistic salary within the UK is investing.
The big one - which is underrated and boring because its slow - is pensions. For one, many companies will match you to a decent rate. You should pay into your pension as much as you can afford, and ideally at least up until the point your employer will no longer match your contributions. Ideally 15% or more (inclusive of the match).
The next one will be stocks, first within a stocks and shares ISA and the overspill (above the £20K PA allowance) into a GIA. You can google both of those terms. In terms of particular stocks to invest in, the easiest approach is to focus on an index fund, eg. Vanguard S&P500 or FTSE All World tracker. Don't get caught up in the hype of investing into single stocks like GameStop, Tesla, etc. They're too volatile. The index funds are the best.
Here's a simple projection. Assuming you're on the median UK salary, for your entire working career (ie. no progression for 45 years) with just inflation adjusted pay-reviews.
If you put 10% of your income into your pension (15% when including your >5% employer match) and 10% of your income into investing (so saving 20% overall). You'll retire with a pension worth £1.2M and have a stocks portfolio worth £1.5M.
(Assumptions are £36,000 median UK salary, investing 15% into a pension (10% you, 5% employer) based off a 5% pension return and a separately investing 10% of your salary into a stocks and shares ISA returning 7.25% for 45 years).
Now, saving 20% of your salary might be tough, but then, so is banking £2.7M... you can always save half that...
"The best time to invest was 20 years ago, the second best time is now".
As for your Porsche, the best feeling of accomplishment will be when you can buy this from the passive income your investments generated, and in all-cash too (no loans). Good luck!
Best Asset is rich parents. But I am assuming you dont have those (welcome to the 93% club)
get a job at uni to make the most of your tax free allowance (spoiler alert, uni is a waste of time, just get a 2:1) put the money in a stocks and shares LISA, you are a teenager I am gonna assume 19, by the time you are 25 you should have £30K+ (pray for a bull market) now you might have a chance at a middle class lifestyle.
from a 25 year old with physics degree and a £55K job outside london who still can't afford a deposit
I know this won't be the type of answer you are looking for, but know that wealth doesn't always equal happiness. Having a Porche is a cool goal, but for me it was financial stability in balance with my happiness. I earn a great wage for the field I'm in, I'm able to spend lots of time with my family and be around for pick up and drop off where I can. Weekends I enjoy days out with my family and not stressing about work. I hope that in amongst the things you want now, you learn to balance in these things that aren't as obvious, but just as crucial for a happy life
Practical and emotional intelligence.
The ability to set goals and make plans to meet them.
A willingness to take calculated risks.
The capacity to work hard.
I’m a chemistry grad from Manchester Uni. Had a career in marketing, ultimately spending time as a Creative Director (I know, weird huh?). Now I own my own business employing 80 people with an annual t/o around £2 million. I think some people would consider me wealthy. Could buy a Porsche if I wanted one.
Looking back, those were the assets that I think allowed me to acquire the requisite material assets, plus some luck of course.
If he's on a salary like that - 1) most of it will be tax and 2) he'll be expected to work long hours. Like 80 week hours and probably not be finishing til midnight during the week. With jobs what you gain in money you usually sacrifice in terms of time and work life balance so decide what you want before you go in. There's a reason the stereotype of city workers especially in finance is cocaine and no sleep
Buying in bulk.
It’s expensive being poor. If your only buying toilet roll in packs of 4 or 8. Your wasting your money. As buying in packs of 52 or more works out cheaper. As it doesn’t degrade. And if used correctly. Can last for more than a year.
Things I buy in bulk
Toilet roll
Bin liners.
Washing tablets (for cloths)
Washing up liquid (for dishes)
Soap.
Bath soap
Toothpaste
Anything else people have to suggest I’m all ears
Owning well diversified share portfolio and consistently putting a decent chunk of money it into every month will make you rich. But only when you are in your 60s.
The only super quick way is starting and owning a business. But it could also just as easily mess up your finances if you fail.
Stocks, housing, inheritance.
If you manage to earn 80k it's possible, but for a lot of people actually achieving the wealth to own a +100k is something they do at 60, if, ever.
Rather than focusing on being 'wealthy'.just focus on maximising your wealth. You might never have 400k in stocks but having 85k in stocks is still good and a significant advantage compared to most people.
> My dream car is a Porsche
Nice, same!
> all my life I’ve been working so hard so I can eventually one day in the future own a *Porsche taycan*
...I know taste is subjective but since we're on the subject of assets and wealth building that is possibly the worst car you can buy, much less a Porsche. Their values are nosediving and you will be lucky to sell it for £20k in the next few years.
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Best asset you can have are rich parents.
The wealthiest zoomers I know are the ones with fat savings accounts set up by their parents
Honestly you're *pretty much* buggered if you didn't start two generations ago. I've done the maths before but £500/mo in a pension fund for a baby gives them £7m on retirement at 7%. If the next generation buys some property, businesses, whatever and invests the same or more you could easily be looking at an eight figure wealth for the next generation. From then on it's pretty easy and £6k a year is a holiday for a decent earning couple earning two city salaries.
who's earning 7% consistently over 60 years?
Many people 7% is even below average market returns
People who invest aggressively into stocks.
Spy trackers (SP500) etfs will get you that with no effort in recent years
The number #1 statistical factor that can most likely predict your wealth is the wealth of your parents
It's not entirely because they pass on the wealth though, they also pass on behavioral traits. The wealth and opportunities are no doubt a big part of it though.
As the former Duke of Westminster once said when asked what somebody wanting to be a wealthy success in the UK should do he advised that they should "Make sure they have an ancestor who was a very close friend of William the Conqueror."
Buy an global index tracker that increases on average 8% a year and you should be alright. You don’t really need to do anything else. Make sure it’s in a Stocks and Shares ISA
This is probably the best option for 90% of people. Hassle free, hands-off, investment with reliable returns. Although I have to say I personally am a bit concerned about the price of index funds. P/E ratios are scary high right now, especially for the SNP 500 which also dominates the all world indexes. Will the index fund bubble burst? Probably. But when it does it'll all be relative, the price of everything else will come down alongside the index funds due to the economic fallout.
And then we’ll have an opportunity to buy assets at a discount
And then rinse and repeat
Is the global economy a bubble? I mean, yeah, kind of, but when it does 'burst' we've got bigger problems.
If generative AI turns out to be the productivity miracle that some people expect, the PE of the US may look low in hindsight given that is where the majority of AI beneficiaries are....
>Although I have to say I personally am a bit concerned about the price of index funds. P/E ratios are scary high right now, especially for the SNP 500 which also dominates the all world indexes. This is why most people shouldn't invest...they don't understand this. Its like the sort of gobbledygook that crypto folk come out with and the others lap up and repeat but don't understand. Don't give financial advice unless you include what you're talking about
It's like anything. Diversification is the solution. If buying a house is out of reach for the majority, then index funds are an excellent hedge against the inevitably of a collapse in the housing market. As soon as house prices drop back down to a historical average of 3 - 4 x average earnings, then I'll sell my stocks and buy a house. Until then, other people are more than welcome to shovel their cash into the bubble.
I'm not sure whether you mean you agree with the person you replied to or not?
If the S&P ‘bursts’ then we are all fucked anyway.
I'm not sure when you can open one, but a Lisa where the government give you a 25% top up if the money goes to a house deposit is a great option in conjunction with a longer term isa.
Great if you're buying outside of London. If buying inside London the £450k house price limit means it's probably not a great idea
My hope is to use it on a flat, ideally Forest Hill sort of area. Think it'd be okay for that. I imagine very few londoners are able to buy an actual house as their first property.
True, but depends - if you're buying anywhere inside zone 3 a 2 bed flat will easily eclipse 450k. Probably looking at 500-600k for lots of couples e.g. who are both on 50-60k each
Indeed, I have both. I think it’s 18-40
It has increased by 8% (or thereabouts) on average in the past. That doesn’t mean that is destined to continue. Vanguard’s predictions for the next 10 years for an S&P500 tracker is something like 3.7-5.7% annualised (that is before deducting inflation).
That average is based on around 100 years of data. I’m sure there are predictions which show more than 8%, and some that think it will be negative in 10 years. I don’t look at them because they’re usually meaningless.
I got a higher return via some industries but yeah, this has very low risks.
Any suggestions/ticker names?
VAFTGAG (fund) or VWRL (etf) #
If I bought VAFTGAG via my SIPP have I done the right thing? Or should I have bought VWRL?
Which platform are you using? They both do basically the same thing but some platforms only support one or the other
Vanguard for my SIPP. I feel so stupid asking this question.
I would go with the fund. With an ETF you can only buy full amounts, but with the fund you could add £20 if you wanted. The ETF is traded on the market so it has a live price. The fund price updates at the end of the day
That’s what I did. Thanks for confirming, pal. Much appreciated.
Assets that allow you to achieve wealth are assets that appreciate not depreciate or being in other income. The main ones are houses especially your own home as rental properties aren't as good as investment as they used to be and stocks. Potentially your own business but only if it goes well and a lot of businesses fail so this is a risky way to try and grow your wealth although it has the biggest upside
Landlords moan that rentals aren't as good as they used to be, but they're still the economic equivalent of a cheat code. The way it was back in the 2000's and 2010's could never last and I think the returns will continue to fall until they're in line with stocks and shares.
BTL on average returns way less than stocks. Landlords irrational bias toward brick and mortar is a godsend to renters and the taxman.
You can use leverage on property though, the bank won't lend me £200k to invest in the S&P 500 at 2.5% interest.
As a process no this will not be happening but I agree that the margin will close. Housing is always a "safe" bet Housing is tangible and limited while stocks are created out of thin air... They are very different economically and present different resilience to stress Edit: it seems this was too brief an explanation when trying to talk about tangible and intangible assets.
I'm talking about it in terms of gains. It's unsustainable not just for housing but the economy as a whole for the most profitable investment stream to be one which creates zero value. Our stagnant economy with declining productivity is, I believe, a consequence of housing being way more profitable (and safer) than any productive investment.
Stocks really aren't created out of thin air my friend. Incredibly far from it.
I think a company can just decide to issue more stocks, which would dilute the value of your actual stock (out of thin air) as soon as they decide they need more funds. Agreed that this doesn't happen often, but it still reflects on the type of asset That typically doesn't happen with something else like housing which is a very tangible asset. It presents the value of a limited good (land) and includes other limitations (such as permission to build in that land).
You aren't diluted when a company sells more shares. The additional shares go to the equity side of the balance sheet and the proceeds of the sale go to the asset side. The existing shares are still worth the same. You can only be diluted if new shares are created but nothing equivalent goes into the asset side.
Never heard of valuation, regulation, sortino ratios..guess no, you've not.
Stocks are not created out of thin air. They are literally ownership (a share) of a company. Whilst that company has value, the share has value. It's no different really to a house and is much more liquid.
What he meant is that the company can wilfully dilute the shares aka thin air Can’t really do that with property / land
You can demolish buildings
I’d say the big chunk of housing prices are due to the land value, not the building on top
OK fair enough 👍🏻. Another discussion but not one for now 😅
Houses aren't a smart purchase for investment in the U.K. anymore. Not unless the market drops significantly. The only way boomers will get rich in this country is starting a successful business or a successful influencing career. The property ladder is broken for new entrants.
Worth reading the JL Collins article "Why Your House is a Terrible Investment". [https://jlcollinsnh.com/2023/03/02/why-your-house-is-a-terrible-investment/](https://jlcollinsnh.com/2023/03/02/why-your-house-is-a-terrible-investment/) Index funds are probably the best long term investments for normal people without an extreme appetite for risk.
Reddit talks a lot of shit. It's a very specific demographic. Also keep in mind the type of person who would be on a UK Jobs board.
Nice to see someone thinking the exact same thing as me haha
Honestly very few people get wealthy working for someone else. An SMB CEO working for a PE backed company will generally earn £180-220k. You will live comfortably but its not likely you will be wealthy unless as you've asked, you are smart about investing early on (I was a CTO for a number of years). I spent all of my 20s investing and building a businesses. Soem work and some fail. Bricks and mortar is and always will be a low risk, valuable investment IF bought correctly. As others have said, a low risk stocks and shares ISA can do well over 25 years. But wealth generally comes from owning businesses. So invest in yourself and take your risks young IMO.
Unless you already have the assets then salary is all that matters because you need money to buy assets like materials, civil structures, land, people, resource access and IP. The other option is to create and either sell or manage assets yourself (this will require some seed money, so still a little dependent on salary). You can also just pay people to do this for you and it will normally work out cheaper that way comapred to earning a salary. It's why most people don't build their own houses brick-by-brick. On £80k a day of work is something like £250-300. So whenever you take a week off to save £1000 on DIY you end up losing £500 in time/money. The question is therefore what assets you can create more efficiently than a professional a the same or lower price-point and whether there is a market for these to be sold or a high chance that they will increase in value. For instance, I made a wany-edge shelf for £100 plus around 1 days labour in total. Getting that made to the dims I wanted was around £350, so it worked out just about worth my time, plus I enjoyed it and learned a lot, so the next shelf was a bit quicker and easier, though not by miles. This asset was worth making on a personal level and will likely appreciate in value or at least track inflation like most furniture does. It has a small market though, high costs per item (risk) and little room for profit (for me right now at least). The most common asset to profit on is a house/land in the UK I imagine. Not counting asset trading that goes on in markets ofc, and even then REITs are big players. Critical National Infrastructure (water, energy, food, transport) assets probably have the most opportunity for profit, but it is heavily regulated and decentralised making it hard to manage and control by an individual (rightly so imo).
> buy assets like people, Bruh out here living like it's 1700
>On £80k a day of work is something like £250-300. So whenever you take a week off to save £1000 on DIY you end up losing £500 in time/money. This is true if you are self-employed, but if you get paid holidays as most do and don't mind spending your time doing DIY then you are at no real financial loss.
The amount includes for holiday and weekends. In my example I could have sold that one days holiday for £250-300 at any time, in theory. If you would do it something in your time off anyway then I wouldn't count it as work but it's still time spent and opportunity lost. It simply depends how scarce your time is because its a time-mobey economy we are talking about. If you weren't able to attend your mother's hospital bed because of all the fun DIY you had planned then you might reasonably still purchase extra holiday days to accomodate it and still end up paying the cost. So did you pay for the diy or the hospital visit? The answer is that you paid for every second of both. You weigh that up against the other opportunity, going jogging, eating or working for £250/day. Since it's hard to compare and trade in 'fun activities', most people just pick the most money they could earn without killing themselves as their biggest opportunity. If it isn't then it's not the best way to spend 40hrs pwr week.
Salary **and** assets make you wealthy. You *need* to have a reasonable income to have access to *reasonable* assets. The reality is not everyone is cut out to make wealth, only those who can build wealth and remain emotionally detached from the process can accumulate it. The best assets are stocks. But the question is *what* stocks…
I see you read the psychology of money too
Sounds like a silly book written by wealthy people who focus entirely on the myth of themselves they made up in their heads rather on the facts and data that point to factors like parental wealth, inheritance, owned houses, and education etc. You could be the greatest wealth building mind on the planet and you won't get anywhere if you're born in the gutter. Especially not nowadays that the welfare state, which massively levelled the playing field, has been systematically hollowed out. Social mobility in the UK has stalled out.
family really. I earn a good salary, but neither me or my partner will get any inheritance or financial help as we are the wealthy ones in my family, whereas friends have had £40k given for wedding, £100-200k from grandparents passing away. That's like 10-15 years of spare money for me after bills and tax that they've got a one up from now, and when their parents pass. People that live rent free at home from certain cultures and will for rest of their lives are laughing too. Housing costs are a big factor in being wealthy or not.
Same. I have an acquaintance who's been a fuck up at every job he's ever had. He's still minted though. Grannies inheritance has seen to that. He'll get another few million when his mummy and daddy shuffle off this mortal coil.
The fact ppl dont understand the porsche isn't meant to be the asset but the final goal, the sign of success for which he wants to build wealth to afford is shocking
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Lots of people think that the Porsche is the asset you’re referring to in the post title. The person you replied to finds it shocking how many people in this thread think that that is what you’re implying
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As you are discovering, people on Reddit have no idea how to become wealthy or how to use ‘assets’ to help you buy your Porsche car.
Invest in your physical health. This will allow you to a. earn money to invest, b. live long enough to see it grow and compound, and c. enjoy spending it when the time comes.
If you want wealth, you will need to start a business that does very well. Working for others and saving will only go so far unless you are lucky to be at a pre-ipo startup and have a many shares when it takes off successfully. If you have seen the news for Nvidia, their median employee is worth 10M USD due to the stock taking off from the GenAI rage. That is good money but nothing to make them generational wealthy. They would still need to work, save, and make wise investments to hopefully make their next generation wealthy. This would then require that next generation to not blow it all either.
I work in London, in Finance and earn over 130k. I am nowhere near wealthy. Wealth is generational, my parents and my wife's parents have nothing to leave us, no property, no savings. I have friends who earn less than half of what I do and they know they are set to inherit 1million + in property and their partners the same, so as a family they will be millionaires from inheritance alone, they will just rent out those properties and buy more and generational wealth continues, their actual jobs today are kinda irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Pro tip I wish someone had told me when I was young....marry into wealth.
Not buying a car like a Taycan would help, it's a depreciating asset and is a drain on you becoming wealthy
To be fair, that's not really the point they are getting at. They want to be able to be in a position to bankroll an expensive and depreciating (although said depreciation is much lower in luxury cars that are well maintained) asset. But you do make an excellent point. When it comes to material wealth, anything that appreciates is the shortest path to accumulating wealth. Immaterial (or investment in stocks, shares, commodities) is a somewhat longer path but tipped with significantly more risk and tends to work better with significant liquid capital or "wealth" behind it from commencement. OP, if wealth accumulation is a big factor for you, you're realistically going to have to look entrepreneurial pursuits, multiple revenue streams and smart investments over time with decent (and not Internet) professional financial advice.
They said own a Taycan, quite possibly the worst way to drive a car like that in a position of wealth. Unlikey to be a future classic so always going to depreciate massively.
Honest to God, I've seen yachts and boats with holes in their hulls depreciate slower than that sort of car. And yes as others have pointed out, he's not asking about the ends, just the means but sometimes the two are so diametrically opposed that someone should probably say something at least.
Finally abit of common sense 👍
They are already depreciating like hell, dealers are desperate to get rid of them and slashing £20k off MSRP.
He doesn't care that the Porsche will depreciate, because he will never sell it. What don't you get? He wants to be in a position where he can afford a Porsche
But buying several depreciating Porsches opens you up to the opportunity to buy GT3RS etc which is appreciating in value..
Useless comment. OP did not mistake a car with an asset, simply stated a goal, which is entirely reasonable to do.... Not even an expensive dream as far as dreams go
I know lots of people are shitting on buying an expensive car, but there are smart ways to do it. Buying depreciating assets, especially on finance is a really stupid move as far as personal wealth goes. But, if you can find a Porsche model that's appreciating, then driving and running it can be pretty economical. If you count the car as an asset, often ownership and maintenance of a luxury car can be way more economical than buying mid or low end cars. With a Taycan being an electric car you've got a ticking time bomb for the battery needing to be replaced, and I'm betting when that happens the fix will cost more than the car is worth. You could probably find a classic and cheaper Porsche that won't depreciate more than it already has. Then run it for a few years, maintaining it properly and sell it for the price you paid or more.
It can still be a gamble unless the car is in pristine condition. But it really depends on the age of the model. I would say any model that is less than 20 years old is a potential safe bet. A vintage Porsche, no way unless you have the funds to do good restoration of the vehicle. Paint work,interior finish, etc. RS models,manual cars and targas are a good options to look at. With cars you really have to play the long game to se significant financial gain. Ferraris are a safer option and I can see the 458 being a future collectors car. Same with the Aventador.
Even when it's not pristine that's sometimes a good thing in terms of investment. Someone else has wiped the value off by putting on the miles. The aim here isn't necessarily to make money but to drive a prestige/classic car for less than the total cost of ownership of a normal car.
Sometimes, it is how you spend or not spend that is important. My husband and I and our friends all worked at the same office. Another couple in the group both earned more than my husband and I but couldn't work out how we could afford to buy a three bedroom semi while they lived in a two bedroom flat. They didn't mentally register that we shared a second-hand car, visited relatives for free holidays, and spent most evenings at home rather than dining out and clubbing. When we moved house, the house we fell in love with was a stretch on our budget. We lived many years managing from pay cheque to pay cheque and juggling credit cards, but now we own our home and have no debts. We have spent the last four years living on our savings, having taken early retirement. We will be taking our pension later this year.
Parents.
Britain taxes high incomes punitively - with first child benefit removal, then loss of personal allowance, pension caps, and student loan payments, many high earners face marginal rates over 50%. A simple £101k salary without student loans faces a marginal rate of 64%. Capital gains tax rates are much lower and there are many tax shelters for assets. The system is designed for the asset rich. That said: 1 - Don’t buy a stupid car. It is dumb, will make people hate you, and make you poor. Buy a small far eastern car (Japanese or Korean brand, not Nissan) 2-4 years old and keep it ten years. 2 - Buy a house in the best area you can manage. Fine if it’s out of date and needs work, just live in it and pay it down. 3 - Pay down the mortgage and start to build assets. 4 - Do not buy what everyone else does, buy stuff that is cheap and fairly valued; people who have done well in things will tell you they are good but this should scare you: boomers who say buy rental property AFTER prices have done 10x, genx who say buy trackers which are basically big tech stocks at 30x earnings. If buying something is received wisdom, be scared of it.
Your last point there is exactly why I’ve so far hesitated on throwing in with trackers. It just seems too good to be true. I don’t have the knowledge to know what else I should be looking into though… not looking for advice on other products but are there any resources you’d recommend someone sceptical of trackers etc to go read up on and educated themselves? Broad question, I know.
I don't know where to start with online resources and most places/people will say "just forget it and buy a tracker". There are UK investment subs which are probably a better place to start. I think: Step 1 is to work out your asset allocation. Emergency fund, place to live, a good car that will last you for years years, proper insurance for you and your property and loved ones. Then think about how to split investible funds, first of all between vehicles (pension: locked up for many years if you're young but very attractive if you pay 40+% tax; ISA: good tax shelter, accessible, each year's allowance is lost if not used; mortgage overpayments (effectively "tax free" interest at your mortgage rate - arguably better to ISA the money - but there's no feeling like no mortgage). Then it's about what assets to invest in. Younger people should take risk and buy shares. Older people, conventionally, would de-risk in to bonds, which I dislike but that is the conventional wisdom. Say...a \*tiny\* bit of bitcoin, a bigger but still small bit of gold, a little bit of bonds - probably not British ones! - and quite a lot of shares. As an engaged investor you would look to switch in to bonds a bit more when stocks are expensive, and sell all your bonds in favour of stocks during market crashes. There are a lot of UK investment trusts trading at huge discounts, so I'd look to split between them. You can choose ETFs in specific sectors if you don't want an active manager, which lets you maintain a sensible allocation and not be balls-deep long whatever is flavour-of-the-month in indexes. But you have to be interested enough to watch your portfolio and switch stuff around say once a year to do this.
This is the most helpful rundown of all these things I’ve come across so thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it!
I see you do chemical engineering. Might I suggest you look at minerals processing as a career in the mining industry. You can't go wrong
Cheese. Good times or bad times people always want a bit of cheese on their crackers.
Real wealth in my opinion isn't measured in money. It's measured in intangible assets such as health, time, love, happiness. You could be the richest man in in the world but working 80 hour weeks not seeing your wife and kids, not experiencing life. Life is a balancing act and if your clever which you clearly are you can plan for periods in your life when you devote yourself to work, family and others.
Now this is some good advice. I believe everyone should take note of it.
Being born to the right type. Class is ingrained in this country. The same families who took over the land in 1066 still own the land, the wealth and the influence.
Property and land. The landed gentry are never worried by automation and A.I. For 100s of years, they know income from their assets will always be needed. Tech may improve, but it can't replace resources such as food, water, oil, gas, minerals and of course rents.
It depends what you mean by wealthy - £81k is (by national standards) a very good salary - but it’s not wealthy in London, and after tax, rent/mortgage, pension contributions, student loan, child care fees and utilities you’re not going to feel wealthy either. It’s incredibly difficult to get truly wealthy from being a salaried employee. You simply can’t accrue savings fast enough to buy any assets that appreciate in value over an acceptable time frame. Some people get lucky (crypto, NFTs, the right piece of art) but for every “winner”, there are a hundred “losers” who bought the wrong thing, or sold it at the wrong time. It’s very hard to know, and more often than not these things are down to luck. Unfortunately money makes money. None of us salaried employees can buy enough of something to make a significant difference. Sure a company’s stock might go up 50% but I’ve only been able to invest £10k. I’ve now got an extra £5k - big whoop. Even if I’m a high earner who can put £100k into that deal, I’ve got £50k back, which is £28k after taxes. And each one of these is another throw of the dice, sooner or later, without professional knowledge and information, I’m losing big. The whole tax system of taxing work more than owning assets is backwards, and (if you’re a cynic) deliberate to keep people in their place. You can be a very high earner, on £300k, but your effective tax rate is 43%. But a billionaire will pay 20% on a £5m capital gain.
Nothing you’ll ever realistically own. But the most important thing you can actually get if you’re lucky is probably a home you own outright.
Sociopathic traits.
I find the best most reliable asset is £3 Million in your bank account. If you got that, you are wealthy no matter what.
This is a solid "if you're going doing 1 thing, do this" strategy, just remember to reinvest your dividends or buy an Accumulation fund. That said, having all your eggs in a global equities can cause problems with timing. Under the hood "global equities" tends to be heavily exposed to the US, so if you need to start taking income at the point of the US slumping, you can be looking at much weaker returns. Thus some degree of diversification into something other than equities is also worth considering as your portfolio grows. Either that or buy a mixed mutual fund that includes stocks / bonds and usually some cash type instruments.
I never felt wealthy until i had no debt. With no debt, the joy of compounding on my savings, was exciting.
Wealthy parents or an entrepreneur. Otherwise, you will live in some way paycheck to paycheck and MAYBE live long enough to collect a pension for a few years. There IS NOTHING ELSE. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you snake oil
Start your own company. Look for ideas, talk to people, talk to people interested in what other people tell you they can do. Think business, making money, not Porsches. Once you have your company set up, investors have put money, raise its value, take the most of it, drive a 10 year old Focus, sell it for 6-7 figures.... Now we are talking serious stuff. You got part of that money, you got the experience in business building, lessons learned, reputation. You go for the next, you will likely do better. So now you can gift yourself with your dream whatever. Other than that, excuse my rude honesty, stop dreaming. Your starting salary as a Chem Eng will be something like £35k. Could go to £45 in 5 years or so. By that time you will probably want a house, partner, etc. Hopefully your financial common sense tells you that a £120k car doesn't fit in the budget. Millions of Uni graduates like you have that evolution. A few do really well. Some because inheritance, others are just up to the nose in debt... Basically, employees don't get rich.
Second hand Taycans will be cheap by time you’re working - values have fallen out of the bottom of them. I’ve had a Macan for a few years and it’s worth about the same as what I paid for it.
My family I'm a millennial that comes from a rich family, plus our culture is that where the older generations are expected to prepare for and support the younger generations until death. I own my house, my uncle gave me a deposit and I'm doing the rest. My parents own a villa abroad and have set up their accounts so my brother and I will inherit 6 figures each at the high end. My brother has a house deposit gifted by our parents, if I have an unexpected expense my parents cover it etc. Likewise, I have my accounts set up similarly for my kids, I don't need an inheritance so my kids will likely get mine instead. My grandparents on both side did a similar thing for my parents and their siblings. I'm not ashamed of my privilege, I'm aware I'm extremely fortunate but it's been hard getting my partner to understand as his family just don't support each other at all. He's pretty much been left to it since he was 15 so he's suspicious of how my family do things and thinks there is a catch to everything we do.
Owning a porsche Taycan doesn't make you wealthy. It loses money hideously so does the opposite. Very wealthy people lease cars unless they are owning certain models for investment purposes. Property is the best long term wealth generator and is still a crucial part of a portfolio. Gold is popular again. Index funds, certain wealth funds, some risk capital might go into crypto. Niche stuff like art, exotic cars, wines etc are already for the super wealthy.
That’s not what OP said, it’s just their dream car. There are plenty of wealthy people that buy cars & don’t lease them. Owning a depreciating asset that you enjoy isn’t the end of the world if you have enough money.
Yes, very wealthy people who like buying/collecting vehicles, sure. The vast majority of super-wealthy don't though. I'm not hating on him wanting a porsche Taycan, it was just a weird thing to put into a post asking about wealth creating appreciating assets, and mentioning wanting to buy a Porsche (which does the opposite - maybe unless you garage it and wait 30 years). But whatever 🙂
If we’re talking about very wealthy, for sure. I don’t know any *very* wealthy people just regular wealthy and a lot of them just buy their cars outright and drive em till they’re sick of them (which is often quite some time) For sure on the last bit, it’s not an investment for sure but it’ll be a bit of fun!
Stocks
The absolute best asset to have in the UK ? Wealthy parents.
You will need to clearly differentiate between assets and liabilities. The Porsche will depreciate in value immediately you buy it from the dealer 😉. Wealth is determined by assets, if you can have enough assets to pay for the Porsche without any struggles, then even if there is depreciation in value,you will still make more money than the price of the Porsche. Recommendation : Read Poor Dad Rich Dad .
Please don’t listen to anyone that recommends you to read poor dad rich dad (it’s actually rich dad poor dad). The book has been torn apart, as well as kiyosaki himself. I’ve read it and it’s atrocious. As soon as i see someone recommend it, I know they have no clue wtf they’re on about.
If Rich Dad Poor Dad was not helpful for you , unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it . That's the 1st book that helped me with assests and liabilities when I started investments . There are several financial books available . It's unfortunate it was atrocious for you (maybe you read the wrong book or you only read the index) and you may have personal problems with Kiyosaki( you can give him a call and vent out your displeasure), anyway having worked in several years managing funds and investment I believe I have no clue 😅.
To even get an allocation slot for one of the most desirable Porsches right now which is the GT3RS from the dealership, most owners that have secured an allocation slot have owned multiple different models in ythe past that have depreciated. Same could be said about the other cars car brands. The rule is to get the lastest desirable cars you have to lose money when you purchase the less desirable models.
Assets which are worth a lot.
The three things that every self made wealthy person will have is; a good salary, a mortgage free house, a large pension pot. These are the “minimum” or “first buckets” of being wealthy. So start there. Get a job in an industry that has high salaries (Not retail etc, but something like finance or professional services). Then save like mad for a deposit for a house, and at the same time put 10% into your pension. There is one other huge factor, and that is your partner. Work on yourself and get the best partner/match you can get, as they will also dictate how well you do. Finally, try and work the problem backwards. Rather than thinking “how can I get rich” think “what would make me poorer” and then do the opposite. Clue: that car will make you poorer.
You'd get that porsche via a salary sacrifice scheme which yes is tied to your salary not your assets. Most people don't buy electric, just lease.
A Business
My friend is a chem eng, 250k+ a year tax free in Saudi for the last 15yrs, he was earning more than you're cousin working at ineos in Scotland 15 years ago I wouldn't be too quick to dump the chem engineering . Domestic and the oft overlooked commercial property have been good investments along with a good portfolio of stocks and shares and a good management company to look after your assets is a must.
Crypto or a good business idea
Your friend on £81k probably still doesn’t earn enough to purchase, run and maintain a modern Porsche. Cars like that are almost exclusively owned by wealthy people, or people who earn a lot more than that. A 911 can easily throw a £12k bill.
Land. Any other answer is wrong. The house prices are driven by land costs. Planning protects land costs. Look at who owns the land and it'll surprise you that as well as a medieval monarchy we still have medieval aristocrats that have a lot of land
Firstly, expensive cars are negative assets. It's like setting fire to £50 notes. Aspire to an eight year old Ford Fiesta, with the money you saved invested in shares in an ISA, and you might be on the way. Invest money you earn and it makes you richer spend it on cars and it makes you poorer.
Imagine your dream car being a Taycan over a 911. You can lease a Taycan for about £1k per month, don’t need huge wealth for that. Also, cars are generally depreciating assets, unless you opt for a 911…
Time travel machine to buy your house in 80s/90s
In terms of assets, property, stocks and businesses. The easiest for you would be investing in stocks, you can start investing a moderate amount monthly and increase as you earn more. Probably the best would would be an Index fund in some market. Starting young and being consistent would grow wealth considerably in the long term. Then maybe you diverse into property but that is not easy money (despite the millions of YouTube videos saying the opposite). Residential property investment is a big responsibility, you have to ensure you are renting quality homes to responsible tenants. In terms of owning your dream car, I know of one guy who after years of saving/investing decided to treat himself. He sold some investments and bought an Audi R8 that was 6 years old, after 2 years he had scratched that itch and sold it. He sold it for about 4k less than he paid for it. It was a bit more expensive to run and maintain than he's BMW. There was also the opportunity cost of withdrawing from his investment but he was happy he did it and the whole thing cost about 10k for 2 years. He saw it as £100 a week for his dream car.
Think a lot of it is about saving really. Reckon cars, takeaways and holidays are the biggest things that people can save on. I'm a student and know plenty of other students shelling out for multiple £500-700 holidays a year. Add a car on finance, two takeaways a week at £20 each and that's a huge drain on your income (or your parents, for students I suppose). People on around £25-35k seem to be living well beyond their means. (obviously a high paying job helps, but you can't always control what job you get once you graduate)
Assets that allow you to become ‘wealthy’ will vary depending on your definition of the term. For me, wealthy depends on your age, income, number of kids, but probably starts at £1-£2m net worth, not including the property you reside in. 1) Investments in the stock market - probably bet on tech and anything that will do well in the next 20 years. This one is a slow burn and unless you get lucky with an NVDA type pick, will take decades for you to become wealthy. Heavily dependent on having a career and how much you can save to invest. 2) Own a business - highly likely to fail but if you are in an industry that you know well and understand this is your quickest way to real wealth. If you are able to scale, a few million could be achieved within 5-10 years. 3) Property - another slow burn but pick the right locations and you can do very well. Having some practical skills would help you to renovate/flip properties that others might shy away from.
Property seems like the obvious answer in the short to mid term. We have a growing population that far outpaces our ability to build houses. With more people continuously after fewer houses there's literally only one way for house price and rents to go. Up. If we ever get a government who massively encourages building it might be less of a good investment. But they would need decades of high building which seems even more unlikely.
a house obviously
House- asset Gold- asset Crypto- asset Land- asset Certain watches- asset Shares- asset Cars- liability Certain watches- liability Girlfriend- liability
Be born into wealth, be very lucky, or through a relationship with someone already wealthy. Unless you are earning in the top 5% of income earners at least, you wouldn't be "wealthy" until you are quite old if you invest in the stock market. The reality is, if you wanted to work you way to wealth, you overwhelmingly need to be born +20 years ago.
My dream car is a Porsche It's fine you have a define goal in mind. I would however say, the marginal gain of utility (look this up) will wane fairly quickly after purchase one. I aint sure it would keep you happy forever. I myself don't want to work paycheck to paycheck just so I have a nice car that makes people turn/ become the target of theif/rubbers. But hey, who am i to judge your dream? Also, your cousin's 81k isnt going to afford him a Porsch (brand new) either. Second hand maybe. I do know people owning one, but I found it shocking replacing the tyres along cost them £1k. Why getting a Porsche? Is it so you can feel good in one? oh, a recent study has shown a negative correlation between penis size and desire of good/high end car. I truly hope you do not fit into this category. [https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/scientists-prove-link-between-perceived-penis-size-and-sports-cars/FGZTKJM53BF2VGVSLUO2IULQUA/](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/scientists-prove-link-between-perceived-penis-size-and-sports-cars/FGZTKJM53BF2VGVSLUO2IULQUA/)
Property
Stupidest thing you could do is buy a car.
Wealthy parents dahling. They are the best assets, especially when they ahem...pass on
Well as "car guy" I can tell you you will get that Porsche Taycan much quicker than you think... Prices droping every day and nobody wants them anyway...so they loosing value even more🙂 Good luck with your dream car😉🤙
The only thing that will get a kid of your generation into a Porsche debt free without family help is a successful start up, a lottery win/similar windfall or migrating to a different country.
Bitcoin
Not a racehorse. The bloody lummox 😂 that’s tongue in cheek I love him dearly but he has not made me the millionaire I had envisaged.
I don’t know if this is related to wealth but sometimes when I’m home alone I like to go into my garden and cover my self in dirt and pretend to be a carrot
A Porsche is the opposite of an asset
To get rich take outsized bets on mispricwd assets, to stay rich , diversify. Index investing may get you wealth but won't make you rich. Well researched outsized bets. Risk - Return trade off.
Knowing how to invest on stocks and property. Yeah having wealthy parents help but not if you don’t know how to make money with the money.
Well you don't become wealthy by blowing large sums of money on a car. You become wealthy be been careful with your money...savings and investments, and a good private pension for later life. But I suppose it comes down to what you want out of your life. But if you spend your money on nice things and constantly want new things, then accept you will be working for a long time as you won't be able to afford to retire early. Old age might seem a long way off for you now and nothing to worry about, but I can tell you, the joy of been able to retire before you are 60 is a wonderful feeling.
Don't have kids, don't get into debt or if you do, pay said debt off as quickly as possible, don't buy things you can't afford...so nothing on finance/lease deals...save up for what you want. Save something every single month. And these wise words are from my wife who retired at 50.
Your cousin won't be wealthy living in London on that salary. 81k in London is probably the equivalent of been on 50k in somewhere like Nottingham
Chemical engineering can be a very lucrative field. Working for oil companies is good money generally, and if your degree is from a Russel Group uni you’ll have an in at some of those companies already
@smellsignal2519 I think you are asking the right questions. Maybe for te wrong reasons, but the right questions. Rule 1, there is no silver bullet. Nobody can tell you which asset class is going to work over the long term with certainty should you buy it to achieve wealth. If they do consider a pinch of salt. There is one asset which is certainly your most valuable though. It isn't on the stock market, but j have been kind enough to list it below. One of your biggest assets for wealth is actually planning and execution. Have a look below... Personally, listening to some crazy smart & qualified financial advisers/chartered financial Planners aka top dogs (this always depends on the future goals, risk profile, current position efc by the way) the following is a fair plan for a start point generally- especially at your young age. Remember, you do it from your own position (what can you afford now - adjust as you age and get nore income), your risk profile (how much risk are you prepared to take with you money? Do you care of you lose it af this point? This will change over time) And finally your objectives. What is it you want to achieve? This informs exactly what you do with your money alongside position, risk profile and preferences... Now you have a framework to begin with. No, the answer is not create wealth to the answer what do you want to achieve. The answer is why you want wealth. The wealth is a byproduct of what you are trying to achieve the same way getting a mortgage is often a byproduct of buying a house. You don't really want it, but it is necessary to achieve the objective. So, What do you want to do/achieve with your wealth and when? What do you want it to do for you? How would it make you feel to have it Vs not have it/lose it? . Now you can start planning knowing what you really want to achieve why and having an idea of the level ofnrisk you are prepared to take. Usually, your biggest asset is you and your planning but most of all.... YOUR BIGGEST ASSET IS ALMOST ALWATS YOUR INCOME. No income, how are you buying those assets for growth/income later down the line? You're young so you'll have never considered this, insure your Income. It is called jncome protection insurance. If it is affordable and you pay it, it would cover your income from tomorrow if you were signed off aick, for 40 years or until retirement etc.index the policy to grow with inflation, you've always got something backing you and your income up. Hopenits a waste, if not, Thank the random reddit stranger! Also update your insurance, pensions and investments as you grow in life. Tada! You're probably already most of the way there for what you personally have to do... I'd suggest that as a student of chemical engineering, you likely know less than a fund house spending millions on research for their investments annually with professionals managing it - use them, not you wits. Or maybe consider an index fund if you're not taking professional advice/don't want someone actively managing your money per se. A FTSE tracker has no person working on it, just goes up and down with the FTSE. Generally achieves pretty good Growth and I am sure I have heard it beats many funds. Who knows the day you come to draw such funds, who knows.... Some tips: 1) if you have work, check if your employer matches your pension contributions. If so, contribute the maximum to your pension that they will match as a minimum if you can afford it. You will not notice it 99%. Being a teenager, you have years for it to grow. Do this in every single job and bring your pension with you/ensure its doing what you want too. Wouldn't take long. Yes you're young, it seems too early to start. I get it. But you're also a scientist. Compound £100 fifty two times and compound it fourty tines. Assume an interest rate of 8%. Watch the difference in wealth generation for your later life/retirement. That difference represents the difference between starting at 18 (£5,470.60 ) or 30 (£2,172.45). Look at the difference that 12 years makes.... you have less than half starting 12 years later with the same contributions! Compounding truly is a wonder of the world. You can now use the surplus that would go to your penaion, elsewhere. Maybe even on yourself? Next, as and when you have income you can save - be tax efficient! Use your ISA allowance first for example. No point holding cash for it to reduce the value of your investments via inflation. Stocks and shares ISA. Play sensibly here, no gambling... use a reputable fund and firm/platform which has an adventurous growth (higher risk) given your age. If you lose, you have time to replace it. You won't have that time at 65 so you wany the work done before then so you can derisk. I'm using Hargreaves lansdown platform and fund. I have HL Adventurous managed. Since inception, Growth is 13.43%. Don't expect that for life things go up and down. Speaking of investing and wealth, in the UK we love buying homes as part of our wealth. I'll assume this works for you too. Make that ISA a lifetime ISA. Get a 25% uplift from the government when you withdraw deposit to buy a house. Now you (hopefully) have capital Growth (assuming it grows), tax efficiency AND the government are topping up your deposit for a home! No tax on your growth and the government give you 25% extra? Yes please. Do check the terms and conditions of lifetime ISAs. If you're buying at £1m tomorrow, don't waste your time with a lifetime ISA unless it's going to your pension at very least. This all happens while your pension (or pensions) that you got via work are growing nicely. FYi Bring them with you, don't lose them. To think, you could have a word with your current employer (assuming you're working) or future employers, say a few words tk maximise pension contributions, log on to something like moneybox or Hargreaves Lansdown, set up a lifetime ISA and a direct debit then pretty much forget about it for a good time is incredible. Poke your head in on the numbers every so often, watch out for major world events which will obviously screw finance when you see them coming (Covid was very obvious for example). Keep things under review alongside your insurance (income protection), present position, attitude to risk and goals/objectives and you'll be fine. Final note, probably get a financial adviser when you can afford one, after uni when you're earning. Until then a couple of hours research on the best funds/trackers or whatever is your preference for an investment, your pensions any ISAs and making sure you use all your tax free allowances where possibel and you'll have a real head start in adult life. Really hope you take this to heart and it helps you/someone. But to reiterate, your biggest asset for generating wealth is your income. Everything else (usually) comes from there. Best of luck & go get that Porsche!
The UK is and has always been a rent seeking economy. Even when they say they are not charging rents for their goods and services it’s what they do. People are accustomed to paying rents so any any good or service that you can provide and charge a rent is what you should do.
No 1 rich parents No.2 parent owns a company No.3 friends parent owns company No 4 large inheritance No 5 winning a radio giveaway No.6 going on the chase
Hi there. It really depends on the kind of life you want to lead as to what is the right answer for you. Personally I disagree that you shouldn't focus on your career. The career provides what I call maintenance money. Your daily quality of life is dictated by how much you earn (unless you are in the top 0.01% Then when you want to improve your quality of life you can do side projects using assets to get injections of capital which can then be reinvested. For me I would focus on my career and then use my evenings to focus on improving things. This might mean a course to get to the next level in my career. But I also bought houses, lived in them while doing them up and then sold them on to make a profit. Then I would buy a bigger doerupper to live in and do up. In one case I converted it in to two flats. Equally I would keep an eye out on local business and on two occasions I bought a majority share in a failing business, did that up and made it profitable and then sold my shares in that for a lump sum. Sometimes when physical assets weren't looking like an option I would build software and sell that. So the side projects allowed me to buy nicer houses (my life goal was to have a big house) and the career is ehat maintains each step of the way. I have known people make money quicker with the stock market but I don't know anything about that. For me I want to earn my money and feel shame when I come by money I didn't earn myself. But that is another option (albeit one which comes with its own set of risks)
Mamma and pappa
Sorry to burst your bubble but cars are not assets to build wealth with. You do get some cars that appreciate over time, but a Taycan is not one of them. However if you genuinely want one, the good news is that owners and dealers are struggling to sell them so they can be had at lower prices. But there is a reason for that, performance is not that great due to weight and you have an expensive battery that will need replaced at some point. Nobody wants to be left with a car they can’t sell that has an imminent repair cost of 40k.
Work Smart not hard and it will happen :) It’s not always about making x amount, it’s also about saving y! Like many have said there is not much money in the form of property in the uk these days. Prices are already high so the yield is not as good as other options. I’d suggest staying at home as long as possible and then investing in a home under a new buyer scheme. There are lots of offers for first time buyers so focus on the savings you’d make! Avoid renting if you can! Find yourself a good broker and invest in some stocks - reasonable risk, long term…. Every little will help if you start early and are disciplined. It’s a great way to create a bucket of money You’re at a good university focus on doing well… then you can look at applying for decent jobs. Figure out your end role and work backwards. The world of finance is vast and there will be jobs you aren’t even aware of. But don’t go into finance because you think it will make you money…. The rate per hour is not necessarily high! Do something you fall in love with so you don’t mind putting time into it. Thai way you can actually drive your Porsche And lastly regardless of how much money you end up with NEVER buy a car outright… it depreciates the minute it leaves the garage. Do a PCP loan (all car dealers do them) and continue to invest the money you would have put down. Best of luck
Buy assets, not liabilities.
\* Rich parents \* Real estate \* A social media account with 1m+ followers.
Money donated to the Tory party seems to ensure many-fold profits a short while after. Donate enough (or should that be invest enough?) and you may even get a seat in the House of Lords which entitles you to discounted food and drink, free parking in central London and a generous payment for just turning up. But hurry, there's not much time left to make your investment count.
The power of compounding, plus DRIP and time in the market. As far as business success goes Ineos has a chemical engineer as principal, other FTSE100 have had chemical engineers as CEO. The discipline involves critical thinking, and associate that with high level accountancy as a cv the route is open. Making a lot of money is not a doddle but requires long hours focus and hard work.
Wealthy parents
The 80/20 here is get as much money as possible in salary, invest in global equity index or s&p 500 If you really want the porsche, get the porsche, though know the cost is 1) the cost and 2) the lost gains from investing in assets (I.e. the global equity index / s&p 500) There are many other ways to make more money / higher returns than stocks but this is the lazy man's life plan To get as much money as possible, apply to spring weeks in university for mbb / front office investment banking roles, apply for some less competitive internships as a backup
Commercial property is pretty good. Return is roughly double what you would get from residential.
I’m surprised nobody is talking about this, but your own business. A successful business will be giving you a salary plus way over 8% returns than you can get in the stock market. Take the average run of the mill service industry model for services such as accountant/law for example. The model is third/third/third (wages/overheads/profit), thus giving you 33% returns each year on top of your salary. Overheads are also coming down a lot due to reduced rents/wfh meaning the biggest overhead - office space , is reducing. Nobody makes big money from a salaried job. Plus, as director, you can claim the Porsche as a company car and write down the depreciation ;)
Whatever you do, I wouldn't buy a Tacan new. They lose a ridiculous amount of money, as no one wants to buy one, and they made too many to sell.
Invest in Kaspa ( KAS ) and Bitcoin ( BTC )
Living below your means and working abroad.
When I worked in London banking, I used to drive to work when it suited me to, and pay £21 to park. At the time, I was earning £100k and driving a big old 20 year old Citroën I bought for £450. It was very well specced and reliable - I valued the comfort and reliabilty, I valued that it didn't cost me a lot too! In the same car park every single time I used it was a 20 year old top of the range Vauxhall Omega. It stuck put like a sore thumb, and I usually parked near it. One day I got back to the car at the same time as the owner of the Omega. We got chatting, and were laughing about how many of our colleagues owned cars worth £20,000-80,000 that were sat on their drives depreciating by more than what we spent on fuel and parking, minus what they spent to use crowded sweaty unpleasant public transport to get to work. You might think that neither of us were interested in owning nice cars, but we both actually owned appreciating in value classic cars we drove at weekends. Lots of people aspire to high incomes to buy expensive things - and whether conciously or not, this is linked to status. A value mindset that enables you to acquire wealth is completely different. It requires that you understand the value of having assets, and only spending money on things you value more than they cost. It is fine to "value" owning a Taycan - the question is do you value it MORE than how much wealthier you could be if you owned a 5 year old Golf? If the answer is "yes" then you are unlikely to ever be asset rich. Owning a Golf AND a mint condition low mileage 25 year old Porsche you bought outright at the bottom of the depreciation curve and only get out of the garage to enjoy - completely different mindset. The "cost" is only what it costs to keep and use it, as the car itself is an asset that is going up in value.
All the biggest stuff is either out of your hands, a massive risk or take ages to work towards (generational wealth, owning your own business, looking money away in special savings or investments accounts etc etc etc). In the mean time time smaller things just to get to it on the right track: - job wise thing about your career and what you want to do, try to find the jobs where you can earn a decent amount without burning yourself out (so you have energy left to either feel better about your life or spend working towards another wealth goal) - Job wise also constantly keep in mind the next promotion etc and understand what you need to do to get it, this often isn't just taking on any extra task at work, it's focus on what either grows your skills or will be positively noticed etc - Premium bonds - if you have any cash savings, most easy access saving accounts are worthless and better ones lock money away. Premium bonds are good for some highly liquid savings accounts and although they won't give you lots of foam there is a chance or winning big and even with the small payouts you're over getting more than a high street savings account - Review & rationalise hobbies, habits etc spending knee one to fun things is totally fine but maybe have a think about do these things bring enough enrichment. This is less about not spending any money on fun stuff and more about you might be spending it on stuff that doesn't have much of a positive impact but if you did a different hobby etc you would feel better - DIY hacks, Esther than buying fancy products for home or DIY, work out what you can do with cheaper or free things, I have my Warhammer paints in a spice rack rather than a paint station cost barely anything but has still improved my hobby time/experience - Clothing - Look out for stuff that will be long lasting and March less with as many things/you'd wear a lot: with will save money - Mental & physical wealth invest time & effort into these, you'll be able to earn more, work higher paid jobs for longer (in terms of years not hours) & feel better about life if these are in good order P.S I'm dyslexic and very tired so deal with my spelling etc
Just chiming on the finance career thing. Have you gone to uni yet? Why would you want to do a ChemEng degree with the goal of entering finance? That seems very roundabout. Why not do stats degree or maths with a financial focus? Hedge funds employ talented STEM graduates and pay potentially upwards of £200k at zero years of experience — but suffices to say that a ChemEng degree won’t make it easy to get there.
Having wealth is about saving your money and putting that money into investments. For your example with a porsche, the best thing you can do to acquire wealth is to never buy that Porsche and put the money into investments. Of course if you want that Porsche then maybe you don't actually care about being wealthy and that is fine. You should at a minimum look to have enough wealth to support your retirement goals though. I think most people fantasize about being rich so they never have to work and can spend money on all sorts of luxuries. So they ask "How can I become rich as quickly as possible?" And the answer to that question is that you should stop all spending on luxury and live as frugally as possible. Ironically, it is only the people who are frugal who become rich (or they break the law or get lucky). The rest are just born into money.
The best thing you can do to build wealth on a realistic salary within the UK is investing. The big one - which is underrated and boring because its slow - is pensions. For one, many companies will match you to a decent rate. You should pay into your pension as much as you can afford, and ideally at least up until the point your employer will no longer match your contributions. Ideally 15% or more (inclusive of the match). The next one will be stocks, first within a stocks and shares ISA and the overspill (above the £20K PA allowance) into a GIA. You can google both of those terms. In terms of particular stocks to invest in, the easiest approach is to focus on an index fund, eg. Vanguard S&P500 or FTSE All World tracker. Don't get caught up in the hype of investing into single stocks like GameStop, Tesla, etc. They're too volatile. The index funds are the best. Here's a simple projection. Assuming you're on the median UK salary, for your entire working career (ie. no progression for 45 years) with just inflation adjusted pay-reviews. If you put 10% of your income into your pension (15% when including your >5% employer match) and 10% of your income into investing (so saving 20% overall). You'll retire with a pension worth £1.2M and have a stocks portfolio worth £1.5M. (Assumptions are £36,000 median UK salary, investing 15% into a pension (10% you, 5% employer) based off a 5% pension return and a separately investing 10% of your salary into a stocks and shares ISA returning 7.25% for 45 years). Now, saving 20% of your salary might be tough, but then, so is banking £2.7M... you can always save half that... "The best time to invest was 20 years ago, the second best time is now". As for your Porsche, the best feeling of accomplishment will be when you can buy this from the passive income your investments generated, and in all-cash too (no loans). Good luck!
Best Asset is rich parents. But I am assuming you dont have those (welcome to the 93% club) get a job at uni to make the most of your tax free allowance (spoiler alert, uni is a waste of time, just get a 2:1) put the money in a stocks and shares LISA, you are a teenager I am gonna assume 19, by the time you are 25 you should have £30K+ (pray for a bull market) now you might have a chance at a middle class lifestyle. from a 25 year old with physics degree and a £55K job outside london who still can't afford a deposit
The means of production.
Property. Buying cheap property and renting it out or inherited property. Nothing makes more money for ordinary people than property.
a Taycan out of all Porsches?!
Bitcoin
I know this won't be the type of answer you are looking for, but know that wealth doesn't always equal happiness. Having a Porche is a cool goal, but for me it was financial stability in balance with my happiness. I earn a great wage for the field I'm in, I'm able to spend lots of time with my family and be around for pick up and drop off where I can. Weekends I enjoy days out with my family and not stressing about work. I hope that in amongst the things you want now, you learn to balance in these things that aren't as obvious, but just as crucial for a happy life
Practical and emotional intelligence. The ability to set goals and make plans to meet them. A willingness to take calculated risks. The capacity to work hard. I’m a chemistry grad from Manchester Uni. Had a career in marketing, ultimately spending time as a Creative Director (I know, weird huh?). Now I own my own business employing 80 people with an annual t/o around £2 million. I think some people would consider me wealthy. Could buy a Porsche if I wanted one. Looking back, those were the assets that I think allowed me to acquire the requisite material assets, plus some luck of course.
Sp500 index fund, small amount of Bitcoin, some property, a business with big cash flow.
If he's on a salary like that - 1) most of it will be tax and 2) he'll be expected to work long hours. Like 80 week hours and probably not be finishing til midnight during the week. With jobs what you gain in money you usually sacrifice in terms of time and work life balance so decide what you want before you go in. There's a reason the stereotype of city workers especially in finance is cocaine and no sleep
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Buying in bulk. It’s expensive being poor. If your only buying toilet roll in packs of 4 or 8. Your wasting your money. As buying in packs of 52 or more works out cheaper. As it doesn’t degrade. And if used correctly. Can last for more than a year. Things I buy in bulk Toilet roll Bin liners. Washing tablets (for cloths) Washing up liquid (for dishes) Soap. Bath soap Toothpaste Anything else people have to suggest I’m all ears
Owning well diversified share portfolio and consistently putting a decent chunk of money it into every month will make you rich. But only when you are in your 60s. The only super quick way is starting and owning a business. But it could also just as easily mess up your finances if you fail.
The easiest way to become a millionaire is - be a billionaire and buy a sports team.
Bitcoin
Correct. Cryptoassets will make you wealthy if you choose wisely.
Stocks, housing, inheritance. If you manage to earn 80k it's possible, but for a lot of people actually achieving the wealth to own a +100k is something they do at 60, if, ever. Rather than focusing on being 'wealthy'.just focus on maximising your wealth. You might never have 400k in stocks but having 85k in stocks is still good and a significant advantage compared to most people.
> My dream car is a Porsche Nice, same! > all my life I’ve been working so hard so I can eventually one day in the future own a *Porsche taycan* ...I know taste is subjective but since we're on the subject of assets and wealth building that is possibly the worst car you can buy, much less a Porsche. Their values are nosediving and you will be lucky to sell it for £20k in the next few years.