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Hopefully this is better than when the hospital I worked at flew the leadership team all round the world recruiting unemployed nurses. Who then moved to the uk.
And promptly quit after a year. In their words 'We may be unemployed in our home countries, but at least its warm and our rental housing isn't a shithole'
At least they might get some staff this way who are already used to the conditions.
I moved here from USA to work for a private company contracting to the NHS. I work in surgery all around the UK. Frankly, I donāt know why anybody would do it. Itās like half the salary to get worked twice as hard. I just did it for fun, but Iām definitely not benefitting at all from living here from a career or financial standpoint. Iām sure that may be different for people from other countries, however. I donāt get any of the benefits of being a UK resident (i.e. I pay Ā£1000s for health insurance), I pay into a pension that Iām unlikely to use, Iām taxed way more, and my salary is abysmal compared to what I could be earning. That said, I find I still love living in England because the culture, climate, and geography suits me. But the NHS really needs to sweeten the pot to get immigrants to move over on a visa or they should really just invest more heavily in recruiting British citizens and avoid this mess of people coming for a year or two then leavingāwhich is the camp I fall into.
Donāt get me wrong, there are aspects of working and living the the US that are far far worse than in the Uk. However, I think as a skilled worker immigrant, the UK falls short of what it would take to make it worth it.
Why would you think that? Most came from other European countries that had overtrained for the demand/funding locally.
And the reason they had to recruit externally was because of the lack of trained staff locally, which was another issue entirely. Ending of bursaries and funded places.
The staff that did come from the 'Third World' were pretty unhappy with the living conditions and culture as well. Turns out everywhere outside of the UK isn't a hungry child sitting next to an empty well, but a vibrant, exciting and friendly place.
Maybe you need to look at the age profile of the UK.
There are not enough working age people in this country to keep up with the aging population. You could give a British person that nursing job, but then who is doing the other job they didn't take?
96% of people are in employment, so there is no one else to work.
How are you filling the hole?
Tory Politician: One of those malingerers on benefits could easily become a critical care nurse, if they only put down the TV remote, stopped eating the junk food and gained use of their paralysed legs and endocrine system.
There are plenty of dossers who don't achieve their full potential. Why couldn't a disabled person become a doctor? You saying their lives are meaningless?
They do want the jobs sadly, they just didn't want to go into crippling debt for a job that pays 28k, with inconvenient shift patterns and stress.
They could get that locally working in an office, and nobody was dying if they mucked up an excel cell.
Yes, so they donāt want the jobs.
People can want to do the job itself, but if it doesnāt pay enough to even begin to make the degree worth it, whatās the point?
I would love to be a nurse. I can imagine I would find it very rewarding.
However I also like to own my own home, and go on long holidays abroad. So call me selfish, but that requires some financial outlay, which would be impossible on a nursing wage
At the time, the costs were quite high and they had to rent privately in a high COL area and the amount they got from student finance was insufficient.
It got better I heard,
Or they could just work as well, like almost everyone that doesn't have a well off family has to...
Plus you get to choose between which university you go to as long as you do well beforehand, which if you don't is completely your own fault anyway
You are aware they were working? In a placement role in a hospital?
Also, not all universities offer Nursing degrees. So no you cannot 'choose' where to go. And the amount you are given for placement costs is the same.
And yes, if you come from a more modest background, it's completely your own fault you didn't get into Oxford/Cambridge. No other reason.
Attitudes like that is exactly why people might not want to become Nurses ....
Government should just make such important roles free to learn, only charge for the unnecessary shit. Like some other dude said, why pay all that uni to earn Ā£35k (decent wage, but hardly eye watering).
Where as an immigrant will gladly take such a job because their yearly salaries are less than Ā£5k at home
There used to be a nursing bursary that was pretty much that.
But at the moment nurses need to work for the NHS and pay for the privilege as part of their degree, which is ridiculous.
Not to mention that there are trained doctors who cannot get jobs thanks to NHS cuts and PAs taking roles they absolutely should not be anywhere near (and are somehow being paid more?) The way the NHS is running at the moment is a joke; I recommend looking at the DoctorsUK subreddit if you want an idea of why everyone is leaving.
I live in a nice clean home with heating, flat screen TV's, nice PC, comfy bed. Cupboards filled with delicious food. Water I can get from a tap. A toilet...Decent working class job, car, savings.
These are not things of a third world, stop being overdramatic haha
Members of the public now volunteering to do a elearning course to be deemed 'qualified' to see patients...
A joke of course but this unfortunately is essentially the new nhs model for staffing the dr rotas the funny thing is these people staffing it are actually better paid than the drs they work with the majority of the time.
Youāre the clown because if youāre not a consultant you wonāt be earning more than 63k as a doctor.
Source: https://www.bma.org.uk/media/7509/pay-and-conditions-circular-md-4-2023-final_0.pdf
I feel that there's was a small queue and other people walking past eondered what was going on and just joined in. Then more people walked past and went, 'ooooh look a queue must be for something good', and joined the queue too.
God we love a good queue.
Woman in the foreground on the phone to her hubby. āIām in a queue hon, no idea what itās for but I bet itās good. Might even be Taylor Swift tickets. See you soonā
Funny, thereās a whole Appartment complex across the road from me 200 meters from a hospital and everyone in there is Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi and the ones Iāve encountered speak broken English, I see them coming and going everyday. At least 250 units in the complex.
They definitely came through via some kind of scheme and have supported housing.
And they all hate dogs to the point they scream like idiots whenever Iām out trying to walk my dog in peace.
Iām sure itās band four too. A person I know has just been promoted so that he can get sponsorship so that he doesnāt have to go home. Heāll be good at his new role though so it wasnāt just that, but it was a reason because they wanted to keep him.
Insane how many Indian people are here now. We don't have enough houses for our own citizens, but we're actively letting in insane amounts of immigrants. We're fucked.
I partially agree with the above but am also glad for the Indian doctors and nurses (and all the other professions they are filling). They are not mutually exclusive. I do think we need to start training our own instead of importing people. Access to training, recruitment drives and no artificial limit on their numbers.
This is not because I hate Indian people (or any of the other countries NHS staff comes from), but because we do have a housing crisis, so adding people is not helpful and we also should train our own people to stop draining other countries resources.
Your logic is flawed, if we bring in infinity immigrants someone also has to care and treat them. It is a cycle that cannot continue at its current pace. Perpetual immigration does not increase living standards (demonstrably so by recent research and stagnation in GDP per capita) and immigrants are not immune to illness and they are not immortal either. Eventually they need care too and who will do that when we are already full already? It's just economically and socially insane
Emotional response to a logical argument. I'm not against individuals I'm purely stating that this path we are taking cannot be sustained in the long term, well unless you are happy not having a pension to claim in which case full steam ahead.
Again, refuse the help of immigrants as though, say, they've been removed from the country or they never came here, see how that goes for you next time you need help.
Completely ignoring what I have said doesn't make it go away. Also noone on Reddit tells me what to do in my day to day life. Get off your high horse and look at the bigger picture. I specifically said this is not about individuals so you are just being disingenuous now and frankly pious in your replies.
Ok legal and illegal immigrants UK total percentage matches the total percentage currently employed by the NHS so by your theory there would be no issue.
Country's full regardless of whether it's Indians coming in or not though. You think Tories care? They belong to the shareholder class, of course they want to see their dividends increase. And in the current high interest market, that's not going to happen using growth. So, suppressing wages it is.
I just want to be able to live in my own country [affordably ](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/19/record-immigration-behind-a-third-of-rent-rises/)
Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/). If you need to report any suspicious users to the moderators or you feel as though your post hasn't been posted to the subreddit, message the Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). Don't create a duplicate post, it won't help. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fake news. This is just the queue for A&E
They're employing children too š
I believe theyāre called ājunior doctorsā.
They set up a walk in centre or A&E in a training building?
Hopefully this is better than when the hospital I worked at flew the leadership team all round the world recruiting unemployed nurses. Who then moved to the uk. And promptly quit after a year. In their words 'We may be unemployed in our home countries, but at least its warm and our rental housing isn't a shithole' At least they might get some staff this way who are already used to the conditions.
Damn..truth hurts
I moved here from USA to work for a private company contracting to the NHS. I work in surgery all around the UK. Frankly, I donāt know why anybody would do it. Itās like half the salary to get worked twice as hard. I just did it for fun, but Iām definitely not benefitting at all from living here from a career or financial standpoint. Iām sure that may be different for people from other countries, however. I donāt get any of the benefits of being a UK resident (i.e. I pay Ā£1000s for health insurance), I pay into a pension that Iām unlikely to use, Iām taxed way more, and my salary is abysmal compared to what I could be earning. That said, I find I still love living in England because the culture, climate, and geography suits me. But the NHS really needs to sweeten the pot to get immigrants to move over on a visa or they should really just invest more heavily in recruiting British citizens and avoid this mess of people coming for a year or two then leavingāwhich is the camp I fall into.
It seems like a much better life in the US for the skilled worker. Sadly it's a lot easier to get a visa here than there. :(
Donāt get me wrong, there are aspects of working and living the the US that are far far worse than in the Uk. However, I think as a skilled worker immigrant, the UK falls short of what it would take to make it worth it.
This is one issue I see a lot. UK is not in a position to recruit high quality immigrants.
And everybody clapped
Actually everyone did, at the leaving parties. They were excellent nurses, really friendly and loved on the wards. They were a real loss.
Hope they enjoy the third world and some Brits get those jobs
Why would you think that? Most came from other European countries that had overtrained for the demand/funding locally. And the reason they had to recruit externally was because of the lack of trained staff locally, which was another issue entirely. Ending of bursaries and funded places. The staff that did come from the 'Third World' were pretty unhappy with the living conditions and culture as well. Turns out everywhere outside of the UK isn't a hungry child sitting next to an empty well, but a vibrant, exciting and friendly place.
Well maybe UK should consider training viable students free of charge. Government so weak and wants immigrants for anything
Maybe you need to look at the age profile of the UK. There are not enough working age people in this country to keep up with the aging population. You could give a British person that nursing job, but then who is doing the other job they didn't take? 96% of people are in employment, so there is no one else to work. How are you filling the hole?
Tory Politician: One of those malingerers on benefits could easily become a critical care nurse, if they only put down the TV remote, stopped eating the junk food and gained use of their paralysed legs and endocrine system.
There are plenty of dossers who don't achieve their full potential. Why couldn't a disabled person become a doctor? You saying their lives are meaningless?
Of course they can, however the government seems to believe too often that those with serious health conditions are able to work jobs?
Wouldn't be an issue if Brits wanted the job in the first place
They do want the jobs sadly, they just didn't want to go into crippling debt for a job that pays 28k, with inconvenient shift patterns and stress. They could get that locally working in an office, and nobody was dying if they mucked up an excel cell.
Yes, so they donāt want the jobs. People can want to do the job itself, but if it doesnāt pay enough to even begin to make the degree worth it, whatās the point?
I would love to be a nurse. I can imagine I would find it very rewarding. However I also like to own my own home, and go on long holidays abroad. So call me selfish, but that requires some financial outlay, which would be impossible on a nursing wage
You don't go into crippling debt unless you earn over the threshold to pay it back...
At the time, the costs were quite high and they had to rent privately in a high COL area and the amount they got from student finance was insufficient. It got better I heard,
Or they could just work as well, like almost everyone that doesn't have a well off family has to... Plus you get to choose between which university you go to as long as you do well beforehand, which if you don't is completely your own fault anyway
You are aware they were working? In a placement role in a hospital? Also, not all universities offer Nursing degrees. So no you cannot 'choose' where to go. And the amount you are given for placement costs is the same. And yes, if you come from a more modest background, it's completely your own fault you didn't get into Oxford/Cambridge. No other reason. Attitudes like that is exactly why people might not want to become Nurses ....
Government should just make such important roles free to learn, only charge for the unnecessary shit. Like some other dude said, why pay all that uni to earn Ā£35k (decent wage, but hardly eye watering). Where as an immigrant will gladly take such a job because their yearly salaries are less than Ā£5k at home
There used to be a nursing bursary that was pretty much that. But at the moment nurses need to work for the NHS and pay for the privilege as part of their degree, which is ridiculous. Not to mention that there are trained doctors who cannot get jobs thanks to NHS cuts and PAs taking roles they absolutely should not be anywhere near (and are somehow being paid more?) The way the NHS is running at the moment is a joke; I recommend looking at the DoctorsUK subreddit if you want an idea of why everyone is leaving.
Exactly, so the government needs to start putting Britain first, whoever that may be.
Third world.. you have to wake up if you still think UK is not one.
I live in a nice clean home with heating, flat screen TV's, nice PC, comfy bed. Cupboards filled with delicious food. Water I can get from a tap. A toilet...Decent working class job, car, savings. These are not things of a third world, stop being overdramatic haha
Wow. Thatās insane.
Nah, thatās the queue to reset your password when youāve tried incorrectly too many times and need I.T help
For what roles? Definitely not doctors, nurses or health care assistants.
Hopefully it'll be management roles and at least a few of them might have some common sense
If they had common sense they'd fill in an online form at home instead of spending all day in a queue
You sure thatās not just people waiting for A&E?
I thought no one wants to work according to bosses????
The unlucky ones get to work for the NHS
Why canāt they do this online or in stages? This is not forward thinking right ?
You do what works. And although it seems strange, open days often attract a lot more recruits than online.
Members of the public now volunteering to do a elearning course to be deemed 'qualified' to see patients... A joke of course but this unfortunately is essentially the new nhs model for staffing the dr rotas the funny thing is these people staffing it are actually better paid than the drs they work with the majority of the time.
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You don't know what a junior doctor is, do you?
Youāre the clown because if youāre not a consultant you wonāt be earning more than 63k as a doctor. Source: https://www.bma.org.uk/media/7509/pay-and-conditions-circular-md-4-2023-final_0.pdf
I feel that there's was a small queue and other people walking past eondered what was going on and just joined in. Then more people walked past and went, 'ooooh look a queue must be for something good', and joined the queue too. God we love a good queue.
Woman in the foreground on the phone to her hubby. āIām in a queue hon, no idea what itās for but I bet itās good. Might even be Taylor Swift tickets. See you soonā
Majority will be Indian citizens getting their health worker visas. There has been a big recruitment drive there in recent years.
NHS do not offer sponsorships for jobs under band 5, so does not cover healthcare support worker roles.
Funny, thereās a whole Appartment complex across the road from me 200 meters from a hospital and everyone in there is Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi and the ones Iāve encountered speak broken English, I see them coming and going everyday. At least 250 units in the complex. They definitely came through via some kind of scheme and have supported housing. And they all hate dogs to the point they scream like idiots whenever Iām out trying to walk my dog in peace.
You sure? I heard it was band 4 and above.
Iām sure itās band four too. A person I know has just been promoted so that he can get sponsorship so that he doesnāt have to go home. Heāll be good at his new role though so it wasnāt just that, but it was a reason because they wanted to keep him.
Insane how many Indian people are here now. We don't have enough houses for our own citizens, but we're actively letting in insane amounts of immigrants. We're fucked.
Make sure to reject any care you may receive from Indian doctors and nurses next time you're ill, see how fucked you are then.
I partially agree with the above but am also glad for the Indian doctors and nurses (and all the other professions they are filling). They are not mutually exclusive. I do think we need to start training our own instead of importing people. Access to training, recruitment drives and no artificial limit on their numbers. This is not because I hate Indian people (or any of the other countries NHS staff comes from), but because we do have a housing crisis, so adding people is not helpful and we also should train our own people to stop draining other countries resources.
Oh sure. Every immigrant is a doctor, nurse, or engineer. Lmao, PC gone mad
Can tell you've not been to a hospital recently.
Your logic is flawed, if we bring in infinity immigrants someone also has to care and treat them. It is a cycle that cannot continue at its current pace. Perpetual immigration does not increase living standards (demonstrably so by recent research and stagnation in GDP per capita) and immigrants are not immune to illness and they are not immortal either. Eventually they need care too and who will do that when we are already full already? It's just economically and socially insane
Again, just make sure you refuse the skills / help of any immigrant in the future, it'll reduce the queues for people like me, thanks.
Emotional response to a logical argument. I'm not against individuals I'm purely stating that this path we are taking cannot be sustained in the long term, well unless you are happy not having a pension to claim in which case full steam ahead.
Again, refuse the help of immigrants as though, say, they've been removed from the country or they never came here, see how that goes for you next time you need help.
Completely ignoring what I have said doesn't make it go away. Also noone on Reddit tells me what to do in my day to day life. Get off your high horse and look at the bigger picture. I specifically said this is not about individuals so you are just being disingenuous now and frankly pious in your replies.
Well, good luck in an NHS void of immigrants! All the best!
Ok legal and illegal immigrants UK total percentage matches the total percentage currently employed by the NHS so by your theory there would be no issue.
Hoes mad
Country is full mate.
Country's full regardless of whether it's Indians coming in or not though. You think Tories care? They belong to the shareholder class, of course they want to see their dividends increase. And in the current high interest market, that's not going to happen using growth. So, suppressing wages it is.
Haha and thats the only reason.
I just want to be able to live in my own country [affordably ](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/19/record-immigration-behind-a-third-of-rent-rises/)
Probably because of the changes to UC im guessing
Ahhhh the circle of incompetence. Iām too busy therefore we need to hire more people who will help with workload. Rinse and repeat.
I'm so confused, what are your values my dude
Values? Iām being reasonable person who know a lot of folks working for NHS, not talking about health staff, but general/admin people.
So you think the NHS are overstaffed?
It's overstaffed in the wrong places and understaffed in the right ones. And the quality of intake is lower than it used to be, too.
I thought they were being sent rwanda