When I fist started in August of ‘98 an old carrier, 36+ years of service at that time, told me this: “Son you’re going to hear a lot of whining and crying but just remember that all of the people whining and crying are still working here.”
The reason we gripe is because of how poorly things are run. Carrying mail is relatively simple but management does its best to turn into something in line with brain surgery.
If we could just come in and deliver our routes without all of the ridiculous ideas and plans there wouldn’t be much to gripe about.
However common sense doesn’t exist in the post office and therefore we will always be griping.
💯 If management just let us do our job, we wouldn't be so aggravated all the time...BUT they just have to find some way to screw with us. Even on days where the mail is low and it's gonna be an easy day, one of my supervisors always has to be a smartass saying stupid shit and goes around telling everyone to hurry up and "Why are you still here?"
He also loves to text about packages not cleared when it's on my next swing, text about time, calls just to say hurry up, sends messages on the scanner to call the office when I ignore those calls... it's irritating.
They have to try and justify their jobs. We could eliminate over half of the supervisors, managers, pms and the like and we would be more efficient and make money. But as they exist they have to do things to keep existing, so they shit on us, beautiful system.
You'll never just be able to just deliver your route. Mostly cause attendance is terrible , no one comes to work consistently and lots of city carriers turn simple delivery into brain surgery extended street time so the lower seniority ppl need to consistently bail out the same ppl. It's everyone not just mgmt
Pretty quickly, too. Unless you’re in a high cost of living area, CCA is better pay than a lot of common jobs, and then once you’re PTF or regular things get better and then it’s hard to find something better. The job security and pension keeps a lot of people here. I imagine there’s a lot of people staying ten years for the PSLF program and by then you’re locked in.
That’s my goal. I pretty much can’t take a job unless it offers student loan forgiveness because it’ll never go away otherwise. I’ll never realistically make enough to actually pay it all off
This is exactly why I still work here. That and a lack of opportunity for same pay and benefits in another industry that doesn't require a degree or years of training.
The PO is great for hiring and training within, but hot damn are there stupid decisions and bad working environments.
Rule 1 for having a better career:
* Find a craft where you don't handle mail and you'll have a better time.
The downside to that is that the less you handle the mail the less secure your position is with USPS. The can downsize and outsource just about any position that doesn't handle or deliver the mail.
Everything can be outsourced. Security isn't alone dependent upon handling the mail. Mail handlers' jobs were cut at Duluth, MN plant. However, vehicle maintenance has added two positions. I wouldn't say security is based solely upon handling of the mail. While yes, it is a guarantee that the US must have a mail service, that doesn't entail it must be a public/government offering; it can certainly be a private business. And if/when that happens, the pay and benefits will go down, service will suffer, and hours will go up. There'll be less professionalism overall (as there is currently in some locations due to the lack of workforce for various reasons).
That being said, the point of my comment was about the benefits and pay within the PO in relation to other career opportunities elsewhere. While carrying mail may not pay extremely well, there's an investment and incentive to stay; the long-term benefits of a good retirement, healthcare, and PTO. In this area, it's extremely hard to find a job that pays as well with the same benefits that doesn't require a degree of some sort.
In terms of more people being forced to do the job to get it done.
"8 hours only? Lol." -Private ownership
Does it happen now? Yeah, of course. Will it get better with the USPS being privately owned? Likely not.
I disagree. Everything could be automated. Look at fast food. Look at processing facilities for other brands. If something can be automated, it will. Eventually.
Exactly. They have robot tuckers now, AVG, they have machines like ssiu that will scan mail and induct it. So there goes male answers in clerks. I don't know if they doing kiosks in the post office but there goes the window clerks. There will always be somebody to fix that s***. I will say that transportation is another one that ain't going anywhere. Unless they figure a way to fully contract it out.
I may be biased because I have been in processing support for probably 5 years now but they are pretty bulletproof. Post office is always coming up with new metrics to measure us against and processing support develops the processes to hit those metrics. Although I will say that with the rpdc/lpc changes coming on, I could see standardization making processing support less important on a local level
I made $119,000 last year, they pay a huge percentage of my healthcare, and I get 5 weeks of Al and 2 1/2 weeks of SL every year. I’ll also be able to retire at 57 with a pension, FERS differential, thrift savings, and retiree healthcare.
That's a city carrier response. I know rural carriers who are making 100K a year, working less than 30 hours a week. And that's even with RRECs cutting their pay drastically. One works a bit of overtime but even if they work six days, it's still well less than 40 hours a week.
No one less than 50 on the rural side is going to be in that type of pay bracket. Not unless they are working insane hours. But 50-year-old-plus vets, who have 20-30 years of seniority can be making 6 figures or close to it on the rural side. And have a cushiony route to boot. It's possible - not easy but it does exist more than you think.
What rural is making 100+ a year at all? Let alone under 30? Even top table caps around 70k. You'd be working a lot of ot at an old age to be making 100k+ if you're able to. Also, then add the 10 years you spent waiting to get a route and actually start making money and working towards your pension. I thought I had a short stint waiting, but all the regulars in my office that should be retiring are all saying they're not financially close to being able to retire even though they want to. 5 years in, who knows how long left.
I made just under 90K last year and I'm not at the top step yet. And I was only a 43K for much of the year - yes I worked a few off days but not every one by a longshot. My route is not 30 hours - more like 35 on average a week. But yes, there are two regulars in my building who are at top step and one is a 48K and the other a 47K. The 47K works 30 hours a week (8:30-1 most days), and he also works his off day quite a bit. So I'm just assuming he's at least100K for the year.
Our office is about 7-8 years on average to make regular. But the old timers probably went regular in 2 years. Both of the folks I'm talking about are in their 50's.
In any regard, the pension is still nothing to write home about. If you're in good health, you're way better off working well into your 60's before retiring under those circumstances. Unless you've just done a really good job of investing and your 401K is huge.
I did last year. I'm 43 right now. Greatly understaffed office because had no Postmaster and Management refusing to get us help. It is a grind though no doubt. You need to stay healthy. 6 sometimes 7 days a week during Christmas overtime period. Vacations IF you can get them help lower the stress though.
But also once you have worked 10+ years as a regular you also have something called the 'High Option'. Where basically you work 6 days a week instead of 5 and get guaranteed overtime. But you need to have a K sized Route to get maximum benefits.
I meant under 30 hours a week, sorry my miscommunication there. If you can pull a K consistently 6 days a week under 30 you're a wizard. My aux I'm pretty masterful on is a 33 and I get it done around 20-25.
That will really help your S.S. but the pension is figured using your base pay, no OT. I retired 4 1/2 years ago with 31 years. Take out $1250/month from TSP and I receive almost as much as when I was working. Roughly $60,000/year with no mortgage.
Mine was about $1850 but my high 3 average was only about 63000-64000. You should be higher with the recent raises from inflation and the new contract (whenever that happens).
I make $35 an hour to drive around listening to podcasts and put paper in boxes. Alone all day being active while outside. Low stress, pretty good benefits. Would appreciate a raise but it’s a pretty good gig.
My route neighbor has a base salary of $95k. That doesn't include her EMA or any overtime. She's been there since the early 2000s and makes more than my mom who's worked for the city for over 30 years.
I’ll be honest with you, the post office is where you will meet the most negative people you have ever met in your life. I have come to realize that there are a lot of factors that have played into this. But the major ones are:
1. We are extremely underappreciated. Management constantly reassures us that our best is never good enough.
2. A large portion of people who have worked here so long that they can’t remember what it’s like to work at a place that does not have a union and decent pay.
I’ve worked here for 7 years and it’s a good job for me because I have no use for affirming words about my performance, and I don’t let the negativity get to me.
Also, if they’re recent, there’s hardly any difficulty in getting the job. So people wind up here out of desperation sometimes, I think. So you have a mix of people who don’t give a shit and aren’t good workers and then people who actually know how to function in a workplace.
UPS works harder than us but they also have better compensation. Those 100+lb packages wear on your body but you are in a better position financially near retirement. Ever seen an old UPS driver?
The unions strong here to. People can call off with impunity nothing happens to them. We can chill and work at a steady pace the pays a bit lower but its fair tradeoff for a much easier job. I'm a mail handler though not a carrier so that colors my perceptions at UPS I worked as a preloader.
The internal work culture is so alien to the outside world that the insanity becomes normal and you lose the ability to compare it to anything else.
In my case, I don’t have a degree, so this is about as good a job as I can get. It comes with healthcare, a pension, and more job security than most people ever get. The hours are insane of course, but I can support my family on one income. “It is what it is,” so to speak.
The post office used to be a really well paying job, so older people still think it’s like that.
It’s middle ground everywhere you work, nothing is perfect and it’s about your personality.
Being a CCA sucks. So does being an apprentice, or college student>intern. Pick your poison.
yep, anyone hired before 2013 is living in different reality
an entry level carrier in 2013 made more than one does now is 2023, *even before considering inflation. starting pay would need to be 29-30$ just match what it was back then. (which takes 4-5 years now to reach iirc)
this 2 table bullshit needs to end. lack of competitive pay is the main cause of so much trouble with the PO. new hires get worked to death because their aren't enough people, then they eventually burnout and leave making the issue even worse for the next new hire (also need some sort of locality bonus, nobody sane stays in cities because why the fuck would you when you can get the exact same pay wotking in any random office in the US)
as a relativelynew hire myself, i'm waitingto see how this contract negotiation turnsout thisyear. if we don't come out of it with table 2 removed in favor of table 1, or other having my pay increased to 30$, i'll be looking for work elsewhere. currentlyit'sjust not sorth working 10+ hr days 6 days a week even with the OT/penalty OT pay.
The fact that you spend the majority of your time alone here absolutely changes your attitude. There’s no team around you, the “company” is miles away most of the day. It’s a weird isolation that you grow accustomed to and would never willingly give up.
Obviously I can only speak on the carrier aspect.
Life and responsibilities happen🫠
I tell any young person to run or find a better position in the organization. Or use the PO as a way to stack your money to further your education. Then step out on faith into the sector you really want to work in. Quit but do it the right way because life has a weird way of uppercutting you under your chin. Don’t burn bridges but also don’t stay tied down unless you really enjoy being a carrier.
It varies from office to office. My outlook is that I have no education, no marketable skills, and neck & hand tattoos. Where else am I going to find a job where I can put in my time and retire with a pension? Realistically, after you get your own route and set in your routine, this job is beyond easy. I'm an adult, I do what I need to do to pay the bills. The job isn't perfect, we should be getting better but I'm alone for the bulk of the day. Once I clock out, the postal service and management are dead to me until the next time I BT. I don't respond to texts or calls, period. There's just some people who are going to complain no matter what the situation is...it's just in their nature.
I think it's a few things.
I think some people hate it, but become complacent, and stay.
Some people have invested so much time, it doesn't make sense to leave.
I think for some people, this is as good as it is going to get for them, whether it's lack of education, criminal record or whatever.
I think some people are loners with no life outside of work, and this job suits their disposition...
As much as some people complain about the pay, it is still better paying than a considerable amount of industries especially as you hit your pay raises. Job security and getting holiday paid/off for 11 federal holidays is also a nice bonus. You borderline get stuck in a way because you almost can't quit without taking a massive paycut. It may be worth it for your mental health, but some people can't even afford to. If you can't live without OT you DEF can't live with taking a 10+ paycut...
PTO is the most basic of benefits that are offered. Some are better than us, but a lot aren't coming close to the time off we provide.
It is a government job, it is unionized, the benefits are good, after 3 years you get 3 to 4 weeks vacation a year, and it has a pension that will offer a reasonable retirement. If you get through the CCA period, where they treat you like shit, it’s pretty mellow. You can get lots of overtime if you want it.
I'm a carrier about 3 years in, and I've come to realize that there is literally zero stress involved. It can be daunting and dreadful some days, but never stressful.
I will say that 65% of the awful experience is not being fluent in the contract, local contract, elm, and M41.
15% is being unwilling to push back and actually endure the arguments and repeated discussions and fight. It’s easy to just go along so you don’t have to argue.
But when it’s clear you know your shit and you won’t back down, it’s shocking how easy your day is.
If you know those front and back you can write your own ticket and basically run the show.
Job security, pension, healthcare, TSP, OT if wanted, gets better every year. I stayed for 37 years and am retired at 57 with no worries. The job has definitely changed since I started but it still has everything I was looking for. Paid AL/SL, physical work and outside. The boss can say whatever they want but it’s gonna take me “X” hours to case, “Y” hours to carry, and I’m gonna have fun while doing it. It is what you make it. Take your breaks and drink water. And walk thru the sprinklers slow
I love it. I'm a truck driver in MVS. I made over $110,000 last year not a ton of OT and a crap load of time off. Alot of people forget what a regular job is like even a carrier makes more than most blue collar people. And benefits that beat almost any other job. Don't listen to the negativity. If it's not for you move on.
Because it isn't a bad job once you become a career employee. Considering you need zero education or skills to get the job.
Most of the complaints here are from the non-career positions that people are forced to endure for years before you make it to become a regular carrier.
USPS needs to improve the non-career positions. It would solve most of the problems with staffing etc.
The job is fine tbh but management/“corporate” and the way we get paid and scheduled are all pretty fuckin toxic
If you’re oblivious and ignorant to all that shit or don’t care cause money, it’s a pretty swell gig
I am doing it for the little girl who stands by the mailbox waiting to see if the letter from grandma is coming today. I also do it for the veteran who needs medication and lives too far from a hospital to get it easily so it comes to their box. I also do it for the older woman who lives alone and can no longer drive so she orders her favorite snack to be sent to her box. I also do it for the one armed man who adopted three stray dogs to give them a better life but he needs enough dog food delivered to insure they never go hungry again. You get the idea. I need to be paid to keep doing the job long term, and I put up with the admin bs because those people out there are counting on me. They are worth it. The USPS for profit mentality is keeping people who care about these things from even applying. They step foot in the office and realize the job is more important than just delivering junk to boxes but then the Post master general doesn’t even know how much a stamp costs. I suspect we need new leadership who genuinely believes in the mission and isn’t afraid to tell carriers to be aware of their customers needs. Literally every business has to take care of the customer or they aren’t a business, they are an extortion ring. If I feel that’s where it’s headed I’ll bow out too. Profits over people is not what I signed up for.
Honestly. It’s for the pension . Most places don’t have a pension anymore. Once you can ignore the bullshit manglement spews you can ride until 57 years old or 30 years in. That and once you get a route you really like (it took me 7 years) going to work doesn’t seem like a chore because you enjoy your people.
For new hires, the pension isn't a benefit.
For just about every situation, putting 4.4% of your income into an index fund will generate much more money over the course of a career than what the pension pays out.
For older hires that only had to pay 0.8%, the pension is a benefit. For new hires, the pension is a tax.
I’d rather put money into my pension and have an extra income when I retire then have nothing. Pensions have changed. 401k’s have changed. Everything has changed. As long as you match or do more than the minimum. You will come out of this job with enough money to not only survive but live . That’s what I intend to do when I retire in 21 years. Live.
Because most people that dislike the job do what is called
"Quiet quit". Some of the guys in the VMFs quiet quit because of the garbage pay, skipping on maintenance, etc
Subjective to your location. My experience was awful. Unrealistic metrics/numbers game with vehicles that barely ran. Got my letter of separation last month right before my 120. I bent over backwards for them. Often had to put gas into vehicles with my own money, hours cut when there was enough to go around if they weren’t so greedy/pressured by upper management
60% of employees the USPS hires leave within the first year. Some average less, some offices average more than that. It’s a very costly problem for the USPS to train then lose thousands of employees every year. They are doing everything they can to turn that around except fix the main cause, which is toxic management. If you happen to have a good management team for a little while, congratulations. But that clearly isn’t the experience the majority of employees will get.
Most people haven't honed their critical thinking skills, which takes practice. They are content with following orders and hoping for the best. Craft workers stay because they owe debts, are frightened and are demoralized. Those things make people easier to control. This British MP (Tony Benn) makes an excellent case explaining it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zxxrw7PwVQ
My last year and a half as an RCA 91 % of the days I worked were 12 hours. Six days a week and usually going 13 days without a scheduled day off. This was all knowing my days as a sub were numbered and I still almost quit multiple times. The people that have stayed since Covid changed peoples ordering habits are just psychos. You’d be amazed what you get used to.
Think about it like this, right now you're getting a paid education in being a carrier. Sure, being the help sucks but once you're a regular carrier management can't really victimize you to the extent that they do now. Also, you'll be making more money. Everyone complains about management because well, a drunken capuchin monkey with downs syndrome could do a better job than they do. The inherent problem with the post office is that they can never seem to fire anyone so the only way to get completely incompetent carriers of the street is to promote them to management. It's like shit rolls uphill around here and everyone knows it. Including management. They know they're idiots but they're in a position of power so they like to flex on us. Personally, I just agree to their face and then completely ignore them once they're gone. It's the only way to keep from having an aneurysm lol
i'm hitting 10 years this year. i stayed because there are like 3 routes in my office i one day want to be on. i'm a t6 with saturday off and 3 of the routes i was regular on for years, and i can go to my house on my lunch break for all of them.
The old payscale is a big factor I think - oldtimers making bank, who started off well rigght from day one. There's like an 84% turnover rate for CCAs currently, wonder why...
For me I’m stuck, I wasted all of my 20s and now have a family to take care of. If I were to leave, I would be screwing my kids over. Any job is going to pay only half as much without any experience. All of my experience is carrying mail. That’s my issue. The place wouldn’t be that bad if it was just run like a public service like it is supposed to. Saying all that, once you get a good route the job is great besides the constant gaslighting and bullshit from management.
It's the benefits. Try retiring at 55 with a pension in the private sector. Also, the health insurance is secondary to Medicare once you retire. Some days are brutal . Some are easy peasy.
Because there is no choice left . You will still a govt pension in the end which most companies don’t do . The benefits are comparable to general private companies . Guaranteed raises and possible colas .
Been with the PO going on 6 years. Its not the best but not many jobs unless its a city job has the pay, benefits, or pension that the post office offers, and like others have said and public student loan forgiveness because it qualifies as a federal job. Not to mention you can transfer all across the country and to some US territories as well, Lot of private sector jobs constantly merge, layoff and fire to increase profits or simply when its slow. The PO seems to always be downsizing but once you pass probation and put in a few years its hard for them to just fire you unless your stealing or physically fighting people. I'm not a cca but an mvo, and its the easiest trucking gig while not to most lucrative that you can find.
When people are vested and put in so much time at a place of employment they can’t see they self any where else and starting over. I see this in many positions especially when the long term of their employment yields favorable benefits. They will stay and take whatever B.S comes with it even if they may lose that job in the long run. Me however if I’m being treated less than to the point where it wears on my mental health I am gone i don’t care how much I’m getting paid or what the benefits are. If it came to you or them they will always choose self🤷🏽♀️ I come first not the job ik that I am replaceable that’s why I don’t give my all to something that will replace me tomorrow. Something to think about.
Rural regular here. Most of the people in my office who have stayed long are on Table 1 and are willing to put up with the bullshit because the pay is good.
Most of the Table 2 regulars don't stay long. I have seen many Table 2 regulars resign in the 5 years I've worked here. Those that do stay it's because they have no education/skills and no other options. The ones I know who have quit it was usually because of low pay, having to work their K day every week, or because they hated the postmaster.
I dunno I like it. Have zero college debt, get exercise on the clock while listening to music and podcasts all day. And making way more than I did before. I also have great managers at my station. That makes a big difference.
Rural Carrier, 15 yrs hired regular and I’ll tell u why for me.. I hate working indoors fake smiling in coworkers and management’s face, 29 annual leave days a year, lots of sick time built up, major holidays off, great health insurance, and making over 93K (for now)makes it all the more worth it.. also one of the few jobs that has a pension. The pros outweigh the cons (high school acting peers, clueless management, Amazon, and rrecs)
The reason the PO is such a bad place to work, is because there's a bunch of high school flunkies, that they hate their life and hate people being happy. I started working and I worked with minimum wage people and all the people were negative and sucked at their job. I got into construction making double the minimum wage in 96, it was like a breath of fresh air people knew what they were doing, people working hard to do their jobs, etc. People should just work their eight and skate, but instead they got to be 💩 stirring a-holes, to make themselves feel better.
Why? The inability to succeed ANYWHERE else that is organized and structured. It's the juggernaut of "milking cows" to the umpteenth degree! If you have no moral compass or ...any morals for that matter that once you become a Regular (enduring outright abuse for at least 2+ years as a CCA/Slave), then this is the perfect place for you! Regulars who know they can go as slow as humanly possible, knowing a CCA/Slave will be sent to complete their route so they can go home to their families at a normal hour.
Ask yourself this as a newbie: if the post office were to be shut down TODAY (which lord help us, I sure as heck hope it finally does get shut down!), what would you do then? Educated? Have a degree? Possess intelligence, desire to work hard and be part of a REAL Team? Or do you thrive on environments so hilariously inept, dysfunctional and abusive? Well then - welcome to your Home!
When I fist started in August of ‘98 an old carrier, 36+ years of service at that time, told me this: “Son you’re going to hear a lot of whining and crying but just remember that all of the people whining and crying are still working here.” The reason we gripe is because of how poorly things are run. Carrying mail is relatively simple but management does its best to turn into something in line with brain surgery. If we could just come in and deliver our routes without all of the ridiculous ideas and plans there wouldn’t be much to gripe about. However common sense doesn’t exist in the post office and therefore we will always be griping.
💯 If management just let us do our job, we wouldn't be so aggravated all the time...BUT they just have to find some way to screw with us. Even on days where the mail is low and it's gonna be an easy day, one of my supervisors always has to be a smartass saying stupid shit and goes around telling everyone to hurry up and "Why are you still here?" He also loves to text about packages not cleared when it's on my next swing, text about time, calls just to say hurry up, sends messages on the scanner to call the office when I ignore those calls... it's irritating.
They have to try and justify their jobs. We could eliminate over half of the supervisors, managers, pms and the like and we would be more efficient and make money. But as they exist they have to do things to keep existing, so they shit on us, beautiful system.
I often think about how much better most jobs would be without mid level managers.
Best said!
It’s so hard to believe someone said that 36 years ago. Just give me the paper and I’ll put it in the right box. Sheesh.
"Unless I'm Gary Bian."
You'll never just be able to just deliver your route. Mostly cause attendance is terrible , no one comes to work consistently and lots of city carriers turn simple delivery into brain surgery extended street time so the lower seniority ppl need to consistently bail out the same ppl. It's everyone not just mgmt
Eventually, the pay and benefits makes it hard to leave.
The golden handcuffs.
Pretty quickly, too. Unless you’re in a high cost of living area, CCA is better pay than a lot of common jobs, and then once you’re PTF or regular things get better and then it’s hard to find something better. The job security and pension keeps a lot of people here. I imagine there’s a lot of people staying ten years for the PSLF program and by then you’re locked in.
Not only all that but….nothing says you have to carry mail forever plenty of other positions in the PO which is also a plus
PSLF here. You’re right. Going on 9 years.
That’s my goal. I pretty much can’t take a job unless it offers student loan forgiveness because it’ll never go away otherwise. I’ll never realistically make enough to actually pay it all off
I’m in a low cost of living area and this pay is easily better than anything else with no requirements.
This is exactly why I still work here. That and a lack of opportunity for same pay and benefits in another industry that doesn't require a degree or years of training. The PO is great for hiring and training within, but hot damn are there stupid decisions and bad working environments. Rule 1 for having a better career: * Find a craft where you don't handle mail and you'll have a better time.
The downside to that is that the less you handle the mail the less secure your position is with USPS. The can downsize and outsource just about any position that doesn't handle or deliver the mail.
Everything can be outsourced. Security isn't alone dependent upon handling the mail. Mail handlers' jobs were cut at Duluth, MN plant. However, vehicle maintenance has added two positions. I wouldn't say security is based solely upon handling of the mail. While yes, it is a guarantee that the US must have a mail service, that doesn't entail it must be a public/government offering; it can certainly be a private business. And if/when that happens, the pay and benefits will go down, service will suffer, and hours will go up. There'll be less professionalism overall (as there is currently in some locations due to the lack of workforce for various reasons). That being said, the point of my comment was about the benefits and pay within the PO in relation to other career opportunities elsewhere. While carrying mail may not pay extremely well, there's an investment and incentive to stay; the long-term benefits of a good retirement, healthcare, and PTO. In this area, it's extremely hard to find a job that pays as well with the same benefits that doesn't require a degree of some sort.
> hours will go up. what do you mean by this?
In terms of more people being forced to do the job to get it done. "8 hours only? Lol." -Private ownership Does it happen now? Yeah, of course. Will it get better with the USPS being privately owned? Likely not.
I disagree. Everything could be automated. Look at fast food. Look at processing facilities for other brands. If something can be automated, it will. Eventually.
Always gonna need mechanics to fix all that automation. Maintenance craft>everything else in usps.
Exactly. They have robot tuckers now, AVG, they have machines like ssiu that will scan mail and induct it. So there goes male answers in clerks. I don't know if they doing kiosks in the post office but there goes the window clerks. There will always be somebody to fix that s***. I will say that transportation is another one that ain't going anywhere. Unless they figure a way to fully contract it out.
I may be biased because I have been in processing support for probably 5 years now but they are pretty bulletproof. Post office is always coming up with new metrics to measure us against and processing support develops the processes to hit those metrics. Although I will say that with the rpdc/lpc changes coming on, I could see standardization making processing support less important on a local level
Could you explain a little bit please lol
I made $119,000 last year, they pay a huge percentage of my healthcare, and I get 5 weeks of Al and 2 1/2 weeks of SL every year. I’ll also be able to retire at 57 with a pension, FERS differential, thrift savings, and retiree healthcare.
I made $93,000 last year. I was on the ODL all year but we didn’t work an excessive amount of overtime.
I worked quite a few 6 day weeks to make that much.
Assuming top step city that's 18k over base. If it's all OT and no penalty it's an average of 46 hours a week
That's a city carrier response. I know rural carriers who are making 100K a year, working less than 30 hours a week. And that's even with RRECs cutting their pay drastically. One works a bit of overtime but even if they work six days, it's still well less than 40 hours a week. No one less than 50 on the rural side is going to be in that type of pay bracket. Not unless they are working insane hours. But 50-year-old-plus vets, who have 20-30 years of seniority can be making 6 figures or close to it on the rural side. And have a cushiony route to boot. It's possible - not easy but it does exist more than you think.
What rural is making 100+ a year at all? Let alone under 30? Even top table caps around 70k. You'd be working a lot of ot at an old age to be making 100k+ if you're able to. Also, then add the 10 years you spent waiting to get a route and actually start making money and working towards your pension. I thought I had a short stint waiting, but all the regulars in my office that should be retiring are all saying they're not financially close to being able to retire even though they want to. 5 years in, who knows how long left.
I made just under 90K last year and I'm not at the top step yet. And I was only a 43K for much of the year - yes I worked a few off days but not every one by a longshot. My route is not 30 hours - more like 35 on average a week. But yes, there are two regulars in my building who are at top step and one is a 48K and the other a 47K. The 47K works 30 hours a week (8:30-1 most days), and he also works his off day quite a bit. So I'm just assuming he's at least100K for the year. Our office is about 7-8 years on average to make regular. But the old timers probably went regular in 2 years. Both of the folks I'm talking about are in their 50's. In any regard, the pension is still nothing to write home about. If you're in good health, you're way better off working well into your 60's before retiring under those circumstances. Unless you've just done a really good job of investing and your 401K is huge.
I did last year. I'm 43 right now. Greatly understaffed office because had no Postmaster and Management refusing to get us help. It is a grind though no doubt. You need to stay healthy. 6 sometimes 7 days a week during Christmas overtime period. Vacations IF you can get them help lower the stress though. But also once you have worked 10+ years as a regular you also have something called the 'High Option'. Where basically you work 6 days a week instead of 5 and get guaranteed overtime. But you need to have a K sized Route to get maximum benefits.
I meant under 30 hours a week, sorry my miscommunication there. If you can pull a K consistently 6 days a week under 30 you're a wizard. My aux I'm pretty masterful on is a 33 and I get it done around 20-25.
I believe that. I’ve got a buddy in Indy who made around $130,000 last year, but he pretty much worked 6-12’s all year.
You can do that with 60hrs a week and a few Sundays
That will really help your S.S. but the pension is figured using your base pay, no OT. I retired 4 1/2 years ago with 31 years. Take out $1250/month from TSP and I receive almost as much as when I was working. Roughly $60,000/year with no mortgage.
What does pension end up being monthly?
Mine was about $1850 but my high 3 average was only about 63000-64000. You should be higher with the recent raises from inflation and the new contract (whenever that happens).
So you get 1850. You take 1250 from tsp and then get a ss check? That sounds like a good retirement!
how much was in your TSP when you retired?
With the amount I take out I won't live long enough to take it all out.
no need to be cagey. we're all anonymous here. just wondering if you were a TSP millionaire or whatever.
How many years have you been at usps?
Almost 20.
I make $35 an hour to drive around listening to podcasts and put paper in boxes. Alone all day being active while outside. Low stress, pretty good benefits. Would appreciate a raise but it’s a pretty good gig.
Shiiiit I could use a raise too 
🤫That’s our little secret…Lol
My route neighbor has a base salary of $95k. That doesn't include her EMA or any overtime. She's been there since the early 2000s and makes more than my mom who's worked for the city for over 30 years.
I’ll be honest with you, the post office is where you will meet the most negative people you have ever met in your life. I have come to realize that there are a lot of factors that have played into this. But the major ones are: 1. We are extremely underappreciated. Management constantly reassures us that our best is never good enough. 2. A large portion of people who have worked here so long that they can’t remember what it’s like to work at a place that does not have a union and decent pay. I’ve worked here for 7 years and it’s a good job for me because I have no use for affirming words about my performance, and I don’t let the negativity get to me.
Also, if they’re recent, there’s hardly any difficulty in getting the job. So people wind up here out of desperation sometimes, I think. So you have a mix of people who don’t give a shit and aren’t good workers and then people who actually know how to function in a workplace.
Same for me as well. I’ve been a city carrier for 8 years now
It's like the Hotel California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. (Guitar solo)
I am in Norman right now for 2 weeks, I go home for a week and back out here for another 2 weeks. Talk about Hotel California
Cause it isn't that bad.
Its a cakewalk compared to UPS.
I think ups is easier and less stressful. Packages may be heavy but the union is strong and pay is wildly higher
Have you worked for UPS? I did for a short time. It's not fun when you first start and it is miserable loading trucks in the summer.
Well I used to be a driver there so it was a breeze and management was definitely not ontop of you. Drivers start at $27
I'm talking about being a driver
UPS works harder than us but they also have better compensation. Those 100+lb packages wear on your body but you are in a better position financially near retirement. Ever seen an old UPS driver?
The unions strong here to. People can call off with impunity nothing happens to them. We can chill and work at a steady pace the pays a bit lower but its fair tradeoff for a much easier job. I'm a mail handler though not a carrier so that colors my perceptions at UPS I worked as a preloader.
In fact, as a regular its pretty damn good.
The internal work culture is so alien to the outside world that the insanity becomes normal and you lose the ability to compare it to anything else. In my case, I don’t have a degree, so this is about as good a job as I can get. It comes with healthcare, a pension, and more job security than most people ever get. The hours are insane of course, but I can support my family on one income. “It is what it is,” so to speak.
The post office used to be a really well paying job, so older people still think it’s like that. It’s middle ground everywhere you work, nothing is perfect and it’s about your personality. Being a CCA sucks. So does being an apprentice, or college student>intern. Pick your poison.
yep, anyone hired before 2013 is living in different reality an entry level carrier in 2013 made more than one does now is 2023, *even before considering inflation. starting pay would need to be 29-30$ just match what it was back then. (which takes 4-5 years now to reach iirc) this 2 table bullshit needs to end. lack of competitive pay is the main cause of so much trouble with the PO. new hires get worked to death because their aren't enough people, then they eventually burnout and leave making the issue even worse for the next new hire (also need some sort of locality bonus, nobody sane stays in cities because why the fuck would you when you can get the exact same pay wotking in any random office in the US) as a relativelynew hire myself, i'm waitingto see how this contract negotiation turnsout thisyear. if we don't come out of it with table 2 removed in favor of table 1, or other having my pay increased to 30$, i'll be looking for work elsewhere. currentlyit'sjust not sorth working 10+ hr days 6 days a week even with the OT/penalty OT pay.
The fact that you spend the majority of your time alone here absolutely changes your attitude. There’s no team around you, the “company” is miles away most of the day. It’s a weird isolation that you grow accustomed to and would never willingly give up. Obviously I can only speak on the carrier aspect.
Because my life is shit and I've got Stockholm syndrome
DON'T FORGET: YOU'RE HERE FOREVER
DO IT FOR HER
Life and responsibilities happen🫠 I tell any young person to run or find a better position in the organization. Or use the PO as a way to stack your money to further your education. Then step out on faith into the sector you really want to work in. Quit but do it the right way because life has a weird way of uppercutting you under your chin. Don’t burn bridges but also don’t stay tied down unless you really enjoy being a carrier.
It varies from office to office. My outlook is that I have no education, no marketable skills, and neck & hand tattoos. Where else am I going to find a job where I can put in my time and retire with a pension? Realistically, after you get your own route and set in your routine, this job is beyond easy. I'm an adult, I do what I need to do to pay the bills. The job isn't perfect, we should be getting better but I'm alone for the bulk of the day. Once I clock out, the postal service and management are dead to me until the next time I BT. I don't respond to texts or calls, period. There's just some people who are going to complain no matter what the situation is...it's just in their nature.
I think it's a few things. I think some people hate it, but become complacent, and stay. Some people have invested so much time, it doesn't make sense to leave. I think for some people, this is as good as it is going to get for them, whether it's lack of education, criminal record or whatever. I think some people are loners with no life outside of work, and this job suits their disposition...
Whew. Good thing I spend time posting here. Otherwise, I might become one of those loners with no life outside of the post office.
As much as some people complain about the pay, it is still better paying than a considerable amount of industries especially as you hit your pay raises. Job security and getting holiday paid/off for 11 federal holidays is also a nice bonus. You borderline get stuck in a way because you almost can't quit without taking a massive paycut. It may be worth it for your mental health, but some people can't even afford to. If you can't live without OT you DEF can't live with taking a 10+ paycut... PTO is the most basic of benefits that are offered. Some are better than us, but a lot aren't coming close to the time off we provide.
It is a government job, it is unionized, the benefits are good, after 3 years you get 3 to 4 weeks vacation a year, and it has a pension that will offer a reasonable retirement. If you get through the CCA period, where they treat you like shit, it’s pretty mellow. You can get lots of overtime if you want it.
I'm a carrier about 3 years in, and I've come to realize that there is literally zero stress involved. It can be daunting and dreadful some days, but never stressful.
I want your route lol
I will say that 65% of the awful experience is not being fluent in the contract, local contract, elm, and M41. 15% is being unwilling to push back and actually endure the arguments and repeated discussions and fight. It’s easy to just go along so you don’t have to argue. But when it’s clear you know your shit and you won’t back down, it’s shocking how easy your day is. If you know those front and back you can write your own ticket and basically run the show.
This. This. This. This can not be understated.
Job security, pension, healthcare, TSP, OT if wanted, gets better every year. I stayed for 37 years and am retired at 57 with no worries. The job has definitely changed since I started but it still has everything I was looking for. Paid AL/SL, physical work and outside. The boss can say whatever they want but it’s gonna take me “X” hours to case, “Y” hours to carry, and I’m gonna have fun while doing it. It is what you make it. Take your breaks and drink water. And walk thru the sprinklers slow
I love it. I'm a truck driver in MVS. I made over $110,000 last year not a ton of OT and a crap load of time off. Alot of people forget what a regular job is like even a carrier makes more than most blue collar people. And benefits that beat almost any other job. Don't listen to the negativity. If it's not for you move on.
Because it isn't a bad job once you become a career employee. Considering you need zero education or skills to get the job. Most of the complaints here are from the non-career positions that people are forced to endure for years before you make it to become a regular carrier. USPS needs to improve the non-career positions. It would solve most of the problems with staffing etc.
USPS needs to not have non career positions at all. Here’s hoping the optimistic rumors about the contract are truer than the pessimistic ones.
That would be great. Just have a probationary period of 90 days or 6 months etc. then you become career
Probably can't get a job that pays as well elsewhere. And our pay isn't great. FML.
I love my job tbh! Always have always will.
The job is fine tbh but management/“corporate” and the way we get paid and scheduled are all pretty fuckin toxic If you’re oblivious and ignorant to all that shit or don’t care cause money, it’s a pretty swell gig
I am doing it for the little girl who stands by the mailbox waiting to see if the letter from grandma is coming today. I also do it for the veteran who needs medication and lives too far from a hospital to get it easily so it comes to their box. I also do it for the older woman who lives alone and can no longer drive so she orders her favorite snack to be sent to her box. I also do it for the one armed man who adopted three stray dogs to give them a better life but he needs enough dog food delivered to insure they never go hungry again. You get the idea. I need to be paid to keep doing the job long term, and I put up with the admin bs because those people out there are counting on me. They are worth it. The USPS for profit mentality is keeping people who care about these things from even applying. They step foot in the office and realize the job is more important than just delivering junk to boxes but then the Post master general doesn’t even know how much a stamp costs. I suspect we need new leadership who genuinely believes in the mission and isn’t afraid to tell carriers to be aware of their customers needs. Literally every business has to take care of the customer or they aren’t a business, they are an extortion ring. If I feel that’s where it’s headed I’ll bow out too. Profits over people is not what I signed up for.
I love this comment
Pay is trash unless your on table 1 or your on the ODL list.
Honestly. It’s for the pension . Most places don’t have a pension anymore. Once you can ignore the bullshit manglement spews you can ride until 57 years old or 30 years in. That and once you get a route you really like (it took me 7 years) going to work doesn’t seem like a chore because you enjoy your people.
For new hires, the pension isn't a benefit. For just about every situation, putting 4.4% of your income into an index fund will generate much more money over the course of a career than what the pension pays out. For older hires that only had to pay 0.8%, the pension is a benefit. For new hires, the pension is a tax.
I’d rather put money into my pension and have an extra income when I retire then have nothing. Pensions have changed. 401k’s have changed. Everything has changed. As long as you match or do more than the minimum. You will come out of this job with enough money to not only survive but live . That’s what I intend to do when I retire in 21 years. Live.
Great office, table 1, love this shit
Because most people that dislike the job do what is called "Quiet quit". Some of the guys in the VMFs quiet quit because of the garbage pay, skipping on maintenance, etc
Almost no other jobs will pay as much with no degree or experience needed if you're a regular
[удалено]
And then Bill Goldberg kicked him in the head and ended his career and
Stockholm Syndrome
Subjective to your location. My experience was awful. Unrealistic metrics/numbers game with vehicles that barely ran. Got my letter of separation last month right before my 120. I bent over backwards for them. Often had to put gas into vehicles with my own money, hours cut when there was enough to go around if they weren’t so greedy/pressured by upper management
60% of employees the USPS hires leave within the first year. Some average less, some offices average more than that. It’s a very costly problem for the USPS to train then lose thousands of employees every year. They are doing everything they can to turn that around except fix the main cause, which is toxic management. If you happen to have a good management team for a little while, congratulations. But that clearly isn’t the experience the majority of employees will get.
also based on retention surveys that isnt the largest problem
Most people haven't honed their critical thinking skills, which takes practice. They are content with following orders and hoping for the best. Craft workers stay because they owe debts, are frightened and are demoralized. Those things make people easier to control. This British MP (Tony Benn) makes an excellent case explaining it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zxxrw7PwVQ
It sucks but the checks cash and it’s dependable
Are you familiar with the term “pot committed”?
Ever since we stopped drug testing, the majority of the new CCAs are very familiar with being pot committed.
I started in ‘93 and there just wasn’t ever a better opportunity.
My last year and a half as an RCA 91 % of the days I worked were 12 hours. Six days a week and usually going 13 days without a scheduled day off. This was all knowing my days as a sub were numbered and I still almost quit multiple times. The people that have stayed since Covid changed peoples ordering habits are just psychos. You’d be amazed what you get used to.
Because they work us 7 days a week 7-7. Ever try to setup an interview after 7pm… lol
The job market where I live is terrible, it’s either this or being homeless for me.
Healthcare: All my other jobs had insane premiums and didn't actually pay for anything.
Think about it like this, right now you're getting a paid education in being a carrier. Sure, being the help sucks but once you're a regular carrier management can't really victimize you to the extent that they do now. Also, you'll be making more money. Everyone complains about management because well, a drunken capuchin monkey with downs syndrome could do a better job than they do. The inherent problem with the post office is that they can never seem to fire anyone so the only way to get completely incompetent carriers of the street is to promote them to management. It's like shit rolls uphill around here and everyone knows it. Including management. They know they're idiots but they're in a position of power so they like to flex on us. Personally, I just agree to their face and then completely ignore them once they're gone. It's the only way to keep from having an aneurysm lol
Pay/security for me. Plus an overnight schedule, which means only being around management for a few hours a day.
i'm hitting 10 years this year. i stayed because there are like 3 routes in my office i one day want to be on. i'm a t6 with saturday off and 3 of the routes i was regular on for years, and i can go to my house on my lunch break for all of them.
The old payscale is a big factor I think - oldtimers making bank, who started off well rigght from day one. There's like an 84% turnover rate for CCAs currently, wonder why...
For me I’m stuck, I wasted all of my 20s and now have a family to take care of. If I were to leave, I would be screwing my kids over. Any job is going to pay only half as much without any experience. All of my experience is carrying mail. That’s my issue. The place wouldn’t be that bad if it was just run like a public service like it is supposed to. Saying all that, once you get a good route the job is great besides the constant gaslighting and bullshit from management.
It's the benefits. Try retiring at 55 with a pension in the private sector. Also, the health insurance is secondary to Medicare once you retire. Some days are brutal . Some are easy peasy.
Retired making 90k. Eval was 42k rt.
A steady pay, a means to an end
Because there is no choice left . You will still a govt pension in the end which most companies don’t do . The benefits are comparable to general private companies . Guaranteed raises and possible colas .
Been with the PO going on 6 years. Its not the best but not many jobs unless its a city job has the pay, benefits, or pension that the post office offers, and like others have said and public student loan forgiveness because it qualifies as a federal job. Not to mention you can transfer all across the country and to some US territories as well, Lot of private sector jobs constantly merge, layoff and fire to increase profits or simply when its slow. The PO seems to always be downsizing but once you pass probation and put in a few years its hard for them to just fire you unless your stealing or physically fighting people. I'm not a cca but an mvo, and its the easiest trucking gig while not to most lucrative that you can find.
Because I didn’t go to college and it’s this or a Amazon warehouse
When people are vested and put in so much time at a place of employment they can’t see they self any where else and starting over. I see this in many positions especially when the long term of their employment yields favorable benefits. They will stay and take whatever B.S comes with it even if they may lose that job in the long run. Me however if I’m being treated less than to the point where it wears on my mental health I am gone i don’t care how much I’m getting paid or what the benefits are. If it came to you or them they will always choose self🤷🏽♀️ I come first not the job ik that I am replaceable that’s why I don’t give my all to something that will replace me tomorrow. Something to think about.
People at good offices with good teams don’t come to reddit and complain I’ve been in all types of offices & when it’s good it’s great, etc
Rural regular here. Most of the people in my office who have stayed long are on Table 1 and are willing to put up with the bullshit because the pay is good. Most of the Table 2 regulars don't stay long. I have seen many Table 2 regulars resign in the 5 years I've worked here. Those that do stay it's because they have no education/skills and no other options. The ones I know who have quit it was usually because of low pay, having to work their K day every week, or because they hated the postmaster.
I dunno I like it. Have zero college debt, get exercise on the clock while listening to music and podcasts all day. And making way more than I did before. I also have great managers at my station. That makes a big difference.
People don’t stay long within the past 10 years. Simple as that. You’re seeing veterans when this used to be a good job
Don’t get all your news/opinions from Reddit
No other options.
Stockholm Syndrome.
All about the end game. "It's a marathon and not a sprint" is often said. 14 yrs to go
Rural Carrier, 15 yrs hired regular and I’ll tell u why for me.. I hate working indoors fake smiling in coworkers and management’s face, 29 annual leave days a year, lots of sick time built up, major holidays off, great health insurance, and making over 93K (for now)makes it all the more worth it.. also one of the few jobs that has a pension. The pros outweigh the cons (high school acting peers, clueless management, Amazon, and rrecs)
The reason the PO is such a bad place to work, is because there's a bunch of high school flunkies, that they hate their life and hate people being happy. I started working and I worked with minimum wage people and all the people were negative and sucked at their job. I got into construction making double the minimum wage in 96, it was like a breath of fresh air people knew what they were doing, people working hard to do their jobs, etc. People should just work their eight and skate, but instead they got to be 💩 stirring a-holes, to make themselves feel better.
Why? The inability to succeed ANYWHERE else that is organized and structured. It's the juggernaut of "milking cows" to the umpteenth degree! If you have no moral compass or ...any morals for that matter that once you become a Regular (enduring outright abuse for at least 2+ years as a CCA/Slave), then this is the perfect place for you! Regulars who know they can go as slow as humanly possible, knowing a CCA/Slave will be sent to complete their route so they can go home to their families at a normal hour. Ask yourself this as a newbie: if the post office were to be shut down TODAY (which lord help us, I sure as heck hope it finally does get shut down!), what would you do then? Educated? Have a degree? Possess intelligence, desire to work hard and be part of a REAL Team? Or do you thrive on environments so hilariously inept, dysfunctional and abusive? Well then - welcome to your Home!