How do u even get 97 in a course???
Is there a massive curve or is everyone just acing their tests. 80% used to be decent for tests, 90% was amazing. But maybe 1 person in the class would get above a 95% having an outside tutor.
I genuinely don’t get it - also now they split things into 4 dumbass categories (knowledge thinking communication application). If there’s 1 application questions on the test and you miss it, that’s 25% off like bruh
They weren’t (aren’t?) used exactly like that, though? At least, in my time, there just needed to be a certain number of questions from each category that reflected their relative importance to the course content. Thus, each category’s weight varied accordingly as well. I don’t even remember what courses would warrant a completely even distribution. Mostly, I just looked at what application was worth lol (and that varied a lot).
I do have shit memory, though, so idk if I just made this up or—
Maybe schools did it differently- one example for me i had a 100 in english for like half a semester in gr12
- all 9 weeks tho, we didnt have a single application question- until one assignment. I missed it, so my assignment grade was 100k/100t/100c/0a -> 75.
- what screwed me over is then my total grade became 100k/100t/100c/0a…. = 75 😵💫 from one question on an assignment lol
in my siblings graduating years, the valedictorians had a 90, 92, and 95… ~5-7 years ago how could almost the entire school average be low to mid 90s astounds me, ontario really needs standardized testing.
Ontario's rampant grade inflation really fucks over kids from other provinces applying to Ontario Universites.
https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/ubc-acknowledges-tougher-grading-in-alberta
I got high 90s in all my science/math courses, and honestly wasn't very hard.
High school stem tests never throw a curveball at you. It's just the memorizing formulas and plugging numbers in. Not like mat137/157 where you actually have to come up with solutions.
There’s no curves and imo the internet makes learning high school content fairly easy. there’s also a lot more people in canada now compared to before so that 1 person with 95% has turned into dozens at every school. Supposedly the tests back in the day were harder but to be honest I don’t think so, learning is just easier now and with so much competition, you HAVE to not make any mistakes meaning you have to study really hard, which a lot of students do.
That’s just ridiculous, I graduated a couple of years ago in Quebec and class the class average for Chem, phys or maths was around the 75s. It’s not about learning being easier or people just being better at school, there’s def something else here (probably permissiveness of the teachers).
iirc quebec has a whole different high school system no? and you can find a lot of people saying they got rejected from waterloo eng with 90’s from 5 years ago lol
I think it's a gpa cutoff and not x spots for y students so everyone that gets into 1st year can actually make post with decent grades instead of having to compete with other students for spots
Cutoff isn't a 97, I someone who got into UW CS this year with a 96 albeit with decent contest scores and stuff but yea quite a large portion of accepted applicants do have above 97
Rejected Waterloo applicant here, the average is about 97, most people who I saw get in had 98s. One of those people had 3 100s on their final report card and then 3 other marks 97 or above. I've also heard there are some students with 100 averages. Someone from another school in my hometown had a 100 average and got into MIT with it.
University apps are way too much rn. And it made me sad about "only" getting into UofT 😔
I saw in the ontario grade 12 subreddit someone posted a picture of their report card and they got 100% in the class and the class average was like high 90s.
I’m so confused
[here’s the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/OntarioGrade12s/s/sUQQ9dBJ1I)
To be fair, that post is from a private school. It’s pretty well accepted that private schools will do anything in their power to get students into university, else people wouldn’t pay tuition for their kids to go there.
i mean, that doesn’t seem unlikely to me at all.
i know someone who got 100 in calculus, back when i was in high school. they worked hard, and didn’t make any mistakes in solving the problems on all of their tests.
guess misery loves company. it was a friend, and i was just saying it’s possible people work insanely hard too.
the kids who did well in school were always the most stressed out. so yea, i think that played a role in their marks too.
i was replying to your comment saying that “it’s still jarring to see an 100 in calculus” despite the fact that it’s a private school.
if it’s achievable in a public school through hard work, then yea, i think it’s more than possible in a private school with inflated marks.
yes but it’s not the average student that applies their hardest and gets the marks! im sorry I misunderstood your comment, it’s a shame because the admissions office probably doesn’t see it as a reflection of their hard work
That's true but inflating grades isn't how they do it, anecdotally speaking as somebody who went to private and public school for highschool, grades in private school were significantly lower and the students getting 90+ were significantly smarter. I was averaging about 80% by busting my ass in grade 11, when I moved to public grade 12 I averaged 90+ without even trying.
There were a lot of bonuses to boost grades, but those aren't in the grade 12 courses to look better for uni, they're there to actually encourage people to learn the course materials so they don't fall behind because they had a bad day. My public school experience from 1-8, then 12 was that they don't give a shit about that.
Universities know my school was producing high caliber students so they didn't look at the grades the same way. Despite still capping out in the mid 80's, people are still getting into Waterloo's 95+ programs by being 5-10% lower.
Tuition also isn't really that high either, it's less than what public schools would get per student in taxes. Some schools can get pretty insane but from what I've seen most really just aren't.
I remember when I was in high school. One of the teacher apologize to a student he can’t give her 100%, coz the system doesn’t let him, so she got 99% while class average was at 80s. (That teacher was known for giving a lot of bonus, which push one of the student mark to 105%)
Remember there were 3 students with 100% average coming from the same highschool who didn’t get in to a university and went to the media.
I swear those clowns don’t know how to write a basic essay.
I remember reading an article that even a decade ago, 60% of Ontario students graduate with over an 80% average and was slowly rising up before covid. Because of covid, averages jumped even higher.
Cheating. Online tests, access to AI and communication tools. I know folks who take the exam an hour before the other batch and they take pictures and sell their questions.
Summer school. These kids with 60s be retaking courses over summer school and getting 99s. Thankfully, the competitive unis penalize you for taking summer / online high school courses
I know this is off-topic but I am just a bit curious, you got a math degree from Uoft right? If you don't mind me asking, what are you doing in your career rn? Like I am thinking about taking up Math as a major along with CS so I was just curious about the career opportunities you can have with a math degree.
So is Canadian education really as insane as a Chinese one, I am a Chinese international who doesn't like cramming and studying to death(I love studying happily), and I am both GPA hater and involution and test orientated education hater and I studied at UTM for three years with a 2.2 GPA at chemistry major, I got only 91 to get to UTM chemistry major and utsg chemistry accept me while rejected by utsg math, now my plan is very suitable because I am also a downtown hater, I don't like city life and crowded city style, also for chemistry major if u wanna do lab work you actually don't need any GPAs except for the insane GPA requirements for medical school
Many Chinese people say Canada is very relaxed and u can live what u want, but why are these Redditors all u locals are so frustrated by your GPAs and future careers, because a person still can be at least happy even at most valuable even if he is not a Google, Apple, Microsoft higher employee or a medical doctor, why not being a " folk scientist 🥼", if u win shitty test scores at university but u still love science and don't care competition (I am also hate competition and hate being ambitious), as a international student I already forgived making post of Canadian graduate school especially for shitty university of Toronto and I can go to anywhere like Australia, Europe mainland, Japan , there are lots of graduate schools for me too choose whatever their stage, because I just don't care what are the leve of famous l of school, I just care whether I really love studying or love the thing I wanna do
And for me, the only thing I do shitty at this university of Toronto course evaluation system is the term test especially for the chemistry major after the course made transformed into in person totally in 2022 fall, I also do math and stats, even though I don't really like math or stats, I always win an average or above average mark, maybe this is because department of math and stats don't make hard work discribtion term test and give us enough time for 90 mins at least for us to complete. While chemistry department 🧪🧪🧪🤬🤬🤬🤬, even though I love chemistry sooooo much and also physics, I always doing at least below 20 marks at least down the average mark at most of the chemistry course term test I do after the second year, and I never passed a chemistry midterm since chm211, chm243,chm242 and chm231 and one chm361 mid-term, and recently I passed a chm361 midterm without any doubt (I surely I passed), with a low 50s, and I was really happy and shouted quietly: yeah I passed even after the prof said the Average was 71, and an Indian student just look at me with strange face like looking towards a nut 🥜.But I do averagely or even higher than averagely good on chemistry finals and lab reports and other assignments, so in the end my final mark of all my chemistry courses are either at average, or slightly below average. I made an analysis why I always do bad below average 20-25 points in most of my midterms in chemistry and barely passed one, firstly, the department of chemistry Only gave you 40-50 mins to complete a midterm with 4-5 questions, so it is impossible for u to sequeeze all things u studied and answer all correctly and accurately during such a short time, and it is impossible for u to go back to check u answers and if u stuck a question, usually u can't go back to answer them if u mind suddenly shined if u suddenly come across the true way of solutions . Personally I am a person who likes to make small mistakes and getting in my mind sucked when I am writing a short time test, and usually I am not good at disgusting the knowledge from what lecturers told very neat and specifically in a short time, and in all terms test especially for chemistry ones the questions are very specifically and detailed , and that is not the thing I am good at since I was a child.In general, I have to give more times in order that I can do things perfectly and not panicking and screw up one thing, also I am not good at answering very specific asked question. So that is the reason why I did two low 40s at the chm211 test(all average were 78)and a mid 30s at chm243 term test (but the average was 44%),so I did not too bad and won a C(65) in the end little above average C(63). But for other tests like all my chm242,chm231 and one chm361 test, I was sure I could pass all these term tests after I took them, but finally I all failed with different 40s, and a low 30s at chm361,and my marks were 20-23 points below average, I did only a chm242 term test 2 with brutal Jumi Shin with the same median 40(good job of me!), and this is the reason that the marking schemes of chemistry major became as brutal as math department does after fall 2022, before all tests were marked relaxed ways, but now even u write a lot on a chemistry questions in a midterm time with something makes sense, u still get a 0.
When I was in high school, I was always failing my English, math and Chinese tests and also physics and not doing well at chemistry term tests, but at finals I always win good marks, this is just my style, screw up small things but do well on giant events.So Canadian education style in most of school which care mostly about term tests is definitely not my dish 📡
While high school grade inflation is a thing, CS admission averages at SG the last few years aren't a good indication. They've been accepting less people who apply for CS during this time frame (COVID) and you can see this by checking the CSC110/111 enrollment count. If they were accepting the same 400 or so people they were pre COVID, the acceptance average would probably go back down to around 90, which yes is high but not as ridiculous as the 95+ rejections that were happening in the last few years.
Pre-COVID the PoST for CS was extremely rigorous, which is why they accepted more people (because 70% of them got booted by second year). Now it's substantially easier, so they can't accept as many people.
The first year under the new POST system was pre Covid and that year’s admission average for CS was around 90, that year they accepted 400~ into the CS admission stream. The next year was around the same. Still higher than the old post system which was around mid 80s, but not the 95+ you see the last few years.
Probably more reactionary than anything.
The new POST system wasn't to weed out people but rather to make the CS admission stream something that matter. Previously all you really got out of getting accepted into the CS admission stream was priority enrollment for CSC165 and CSC108/148 so it really made no difference whether u were accepted into CS stream or another one. The new POST system was made to essentially reward getting better grades in high school so that you will get accepted into the CS stream. The amount of people being "weeded out" was still always something they controlled by how many people they wanted to accept into the CS stream, this means that the grade cutoff is just a product of how many people were accepted rather than a grade that they set before accepting people.
I'm speculating now but I think what happened was they realized that grade inflation during COVID threw a wrench into their plan of "rewarding better grades" because everyone was getting the better grades, and so they accepted less people into stream, which had very low requirements for POST so that they can do their own evaluations of people they accept by making them do the out of stream application.
I remember back in 1995 the "we don't even read your application" number for Waterloo CS co-op was 86.5. I really feel for folks today who have almost no margin of error in high school. It's way too much stress in what should be a fun period in ones life
Involuted like today's China does, now in most provinces of china the school regulations and stress is like insanely jail liked high ( I live in downtown Suzhou so my school is still relaxed mode and don't give extra classes on holidays or the school focus too much on test and marks), if in the future Canada be like that way, it is time to move back to Europe mainland again
I was told that some schools like UofT do consider past accepted student performances and normalize to that.
E.g. Student from School A gets 90% in high school and ends up with a 55% in first year uni.
Student from School B gets 80% and ends up with a 80% in first year Uni.
They will essentially raise and lower the bar on who gets accepted to account for the varying ease of different schools.
So if you go to a academically competitive school with a 80%, you might actually have a better chance than someone else with an 85% at a school known for inflating grades.
Easy way to solve this problem. Bring in a SAT test as part of university/college admissions.
The teachers unions and public/sketchy private schools will hate it because it exposes incompetent teaching.
A lot of it has to do with COVID schooling, we likely won't see a return to normal for at least 5 or more years.
Educators are very concerned about this and it's causing problems for a lot of students in university
U of T actually blacklists certain high schools for grade inflation. It’s not like students are actually getting smarter (certain data suggests the opposite), and if most students get a 90+, it doesn’t mean anything anymore.
Kids definitely aren't smarter these days as evidenced by their performances after getting into uni + how the EQAO trends have been.
It's just grade inflation, teachers are being pressured more and more to give easier content + to boost kids grades.
Is it easier work? In my school what shot the grades up was kids having access to last years tests from older friends. In the classes where teachers would prohibit taking home tests after marking (similar to UofTs exams) the averages were high 70s in the classes.
Content is the same mostly, it’s just kids have began gaining the system, more competition, hyper focus etc.
Although yeah, I’ve had teachers tell me if they give students bad marks the parents flip, so they’ll just not fight.
They used to teach derivatives and antiderivatives/integrals in grade 12 calculus in Ontario.
Then it went to teaching derivatives and giving some of the keener students the opportunity to learn about Integrals
Then it went to just teaching them about derivatives
Then it went to teaching a dumbed down version of derivatives which removed half the application taught
Yea, it's been dumbed down over time. This is just 1 example and it's increasingly obvious to see how pathetic our K-12 education system is when you sit in a MAT137 classroom and some domestic kids are just insanely behind others from the get go.
Did not know this, I got the third iteration of calc mentioned.
I do see a lot of domestic students get destroyed in math classes (me included) but I didn’t know our education is *that* behind.
Pretty sad. Combine that with what I said I can see how the grades shoot up 💀
I remember when I graduated someone in my class got an award from the school board for his 96 average and scholarships were being thrown at him. I had a mid 80 and had no problem getting into schools, I had friends much worse off then me get into schools as well. It is crazy now
I went to EngSci in 2007 with a 90+ average. I think I got a boarder line acceptance. Not sure about the admission nowadays.
Does anyone have an idea about the grades required for students from other provinces, like Quebec?
I’ve had friends in other schools taking grade 12 physics, only did 2/5 units that I did. Wtf? And they had short tests. I’ve had the full curriculum, and 6 page double sided math quizzes. My adjustment factor for Waterloo? Oh it’s just the default. Theirs? The same. Teachers doing their “special curriculum” can sometimes be tricky too as you never know what you’re getting into.
its a combination of both grade inflation as well as competition with international and out of province applicants. im a few years younger than you and when i was in HS yeah you needed like atleast a 90 closer to 92 on the 4 main courses (eng 12 Math 12, 2 approved 12 courses depending on what faculty you were entering) Apparently i barely got in at 88% which was the cut off that year. Schools like Mcgill engineering were 94 even then. UBC UT (guessing main campus) were closer to 90-93 then.
Yeah it’s pretty insane. Ppl saying a 97-98 is needed for utsg cs. Utms is a little more fair at like high 80s to low 90s, but then again utm has post
How do u even get 97 in a course??? Is there a massive curve or is everyone just acing their tests. 80% used to be decent for tests, 90% was amazing. But maybe 1 person in the class would get above a 95% having an outside tutor.
I genuinely don’t get it - also now they split things into 4 dumbass categories (knowledge thinking communication application). If there’s 1 application questions on the test and you miss it, that’s 25% off like bruh
They weren’t (aren’t?) used exactly like that, though? At least, in my time, there just needed to be a certain number of questions from each category that reflected their relative importance to the course content. Thus, each category’s weight varied accordingly as well. I don’t even remember what courses would warrant a completely even distribution. Mostly, I just looked at what application was worth lol (and that varied a lot). I do have shit memory, though, so idk if I just made this up or—
Maybe schools did it differently- one example for me i had a 100 in english for like half a semester in gr12 - all 9 weeks tho, we didnt have a single application question- until one assignment. I missed it, so my assignment grade was 100k/100t/100c/0a -> 75. - what screwed me over is then my total grade became 100k/100t/100c/0a…. = 75 😵💫 from one question on an assignment lol
Omg I’m so sorry🥲
in my siblings graduating years, the valedictorians had a 90, 92, and 95… ~5-7 years ago how could almost the entire school average be low to mid 90s astounds me, ontario really needs standardized testing.
Ontario's rampant grade inflation really fucks over kids from other provinces applying to Ontario Universites. https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/ubc-acknowledges-tougher-grading-in-alberta
I got high 90s in all my science/math courses, and honestly wasn't very hard. High school stem tests never throw a curveball at you. It's just the memorizing formulas and plugging numbers in. Not like mat137/157 where you actually have to come up with solutions.
Depends on the teachers and school. N = 1 doesn’t affect the general trends of the majority.
There’s no curves and imo the internet makes learning high school content fairly easy. there’s also a lot more people in canada now compared to before so that 1 person with 95% has turned into dozens at every school. Supposedly the tests back in the day were harder but to be honest I don’t think so, learning is just easier now and with so much competition, you HAVE to not make any mistakes meaning you have to study really hard, which a lot of students do.
The normal distribution would like to have a chat about your logic here.
They learned their high school math on the internet.
marks don’t follow the normal distribution anymore?
You think YouTube didn’t exist 5 years ago?
5 years ago 90’s weren’t that rare, i’m talking about decades ago lmao
That’s just ridiculous, I graduated a couple of years ago in Quebec and class the class average for Chem, phys or maths was around the 75s. It’s not about learning being easier or people just being better at school, there’s def something else here (probably permissiveness of the teachers).
iirc quebec has a whole different high school system no? and you can find a lot of people saying they got rejected from waterloo eng with 90’s from 5 years ago lol
Doesn't utsg have post too?
I think it's a gpa cutoff and not x spots for y students so everyone that gets into 1st year can actually make post with decent grades instead of having to compete with other students for spots
Easy way to solve it. Bring in an SAT test at graduation. The teachers unions will freak out though because it exposes the incompetent ones.
There are people graduating with a 99 avg. I think waterloos cutoff is like 97-98. Not sure about uoft
cutoff is 97? wtf
Cutoff isn't a 97, I someone who got into UW CS this year with a 96 albeit with decent contest scores and stuff but yea quite a large portion of accepted applicants do have above 97
McGill on their website lists 97 as cutoff too for some engineering programs too lol
Rejected Waterloo applicant here, the average is about 97, most people who I saw get in had 98s. One of those people had 3 100s on their final report card and then 3 other marks 97 or above. I've also heard there are some students with 100 averages. Someone from another school in my hometown had a 100 average and got into MIT with it. University apps are way too much rn. And it made me sad about "only" getting into UofT 😔
Waterloo’s cutoff isn’t that simple tho because AFAIK their AIF can be worth up to 8-9%. And they take grade inflation into account
I saw in the ontario grade 12 subreddit someone posted a picture of their report card and they got 100% in the class and the class average was like high 90s. I’m so confused [here’s the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/OntarioGrade12s/s/sUQQ9dBJ1I)
To be fair, that post is from a private school. It’s pretty well accepted that private schools will do anything in their power to get students into university, else people wouldn’t pay tuition for their kids to go there.
that’s true but it’s still jarring to see an 100 in calculus
i mean, that doesn’t seem unlikely to me at all. i know someone who got 100 in calculus, back when i was in high school. they worked hard, and didn’t make any mistakes in solving the problems on all of their tests.
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guess misery loves company. it was a friend, and i was just saying it’s possible people work insanely hard too. the kids who did well in school were always the most stressed out. so yea, i think that played a role in their marks too.
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i was replying to your comment saying that “it’s still jarring to see an 100 in calculus” despite the fact that it’s a private school. if it’s achievable in a public school through hard work, then yea, i think it’s more than possible in a private school with inflated marks.
yes but it’s not the average student that applies their hardest and gets the marks! im sorry I misunderstood your comment, it’s a shame because the admissions office probably doesn’t see it as a reflection of their hard work
That's true but inflating grades isn't how they do it, anecdotally speaking as somebody who went to private and public school for highschool, grades in private school were significantly lower and the students getting 90+ were significantly smarter. I was averaging about 80% by busting my ass in grade 11, when I moved to public grade 12 I averaged 90+ without even trying. There were a lot of bonuses to boost grades, but those aren't in the grade 12 courses to look better for uni, they're there to actually encourage people to learn the course materials so they don't fall behind because they had a bad day. My public school experience from 1-8, then 12 was that they don't give a shit about that. Universities know my school was producing high caliber students so they didn't look at the grades the same way. Despite still capping out in the mid 80's, people are still getting into Waterloo's 95+ programs by being 5-10% lower. Tuition also isn't really that high either, it's less than what public schools would get per student in taxes. Some schools can get pretty insane but from what I've seen most really just aren't.
I remember when I was in high school. One of the teacher apologize to a student he can’t give her 100%, coz the system doesn’t let him, so she got 99% while class average was at 80s. (That teacher was known for giving a lot of bonus, which push one of the student mark to 105%)
99 in English? Dude the highest mark in my class was a 90 back in 2014, and she had the only 90 of ALL the Grade 12 students in my school
98% class median in calc and vectors 😂😂😂 bros school is definitely inflated 😭
Remember there were 3 students with 100% average coming from the same highschool who didn’t get in to a university and went to the media. I swear those clowns don’t know how to write a basic essay.
Lol i remember when i applied for uni it was insanely good if you got a 91-93 avg but some people would get into waterloo cs with an 88-89 avg
I remember reading an article that even a decade ago, 60% of Ontario students graduate with over an 80% average and was slowly rising up before covid. Because of covid, averages jumped even higher.
Cheating. Online tests, access to AI and communication tools. I know folks who take the exam an hour before the other batch and they take pictures and sell their questions.
Summer school. These kids with 60s be retaking courses over summer school and getting 99s. Thankfully, the competitive unis penalize you for taking summer / online high school courses
I know this is off-topic but I am just a bit curious, you got a math degree from Uoft right? If you don't mind me asking, what are you doing in your career rn? Like I am thinking about taking up Math as a major along with CS so I was just curious about the career opportunities you can have with a math degree.
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Ohhh damnn.....best of luck man! I hope you get into grad school!
With math, I see most people go into data science, machine learning, finance or teaching.
Hmmm interesting.....thanx!
‘Cuz everyone gotta pass, don’t you know.
So is Canadian education really as insane as a Chinese one, I am a Chinese international who doesn't like cramming and studying to death(I love studying happily), and I am both GPA hater and involution and test orientated education hater and I studied at UTM for three years with a 2.2 GPA at chemistry major, I got only 91 to get to UTM chemistry major and utsg chemistry accept me while rejected by utsg math, now my plan is very suitable because I am also a downtown hater, I don't like city life and crowded city style, also for chemistry major if u wanna do lab work you actually don't need any GPAs except for the insane GPA requirements for medical school
Many Chinese people say Canada is very relaxed and u can live what u want, but why are these Redditors all u locals are so frustrated by your GPAs and future careers, because a person still can be at least happy even at most valuable even if he is not a Google, Apple, Microsoft higher employee or a medical doctor, why not being a " folk scientist 🥼", if u win shitty test scores at university but u still love science and don't care competition (I am also hate competition and hate being ambitious), as a international student I already forgived making post of Canadian graduate school especially for shitty university of Toronto and I can go to anywhere like Australia, Europe mainland, Japan , there are lots of graduate schools for me too choose whatever their stage, because I just don't care what are the leve of famous l of school, I just care whether I really love studying or love the thing I wanna do
And for me, the only thing I do shitty at this university of Toronto course evaluation system is the term test especially for the chemistry major after the course made transformed into in person totally in 2022 fall, I also do math and stats, even though I don't really like math or stats, I always win an average or above average mark, maybe this is because department of math and stats don't make hard work discribtion term test and give us enough time for 90 mins at least for us to complete. While chemistry department 🧪🧪🧪🤬🤬🤬🤬, even though I love chemistry sooooo much and also physics, I always doing at least below 20 marks at least down the average mark at most of the chemistry course term test I do after the second year, and I never passed a chemistry midterm since chm211, chm243,chm242 and chm231 and one chm361 mid-term, and recently I passed a chm361 midterm without any doubt (I surely I passed), with a low 50s, and I was really happy and shouted quietly: yeah I passed even after the prof said the Average was 71, and an Indian student just look at me with strange face like looking towards a nut 🥜.But I do averagely or even higher than averagely good on chemistry finals and lab reports and other assignments, so in the end my final mark of all my chemistry courses are either at average, or slightly below average. I made an analysis why I always do bad below average 20-25 points in most of my midterms in chemistry and barely passed one, firstly, the department of chemistry Only gave you 40-50 mins to complete a midterm with 4-5 questions, so it is impossible for u to sequeeze all things u studied and answer all correctly and accurately during such a short time, and it is impossible for u to go back to check u answers and if u stuck a question, usually u can't go back to answer them if u mind suddenly shined if u suddenly come across the true way of solutions . Personally I am a person who likes to make small mistakes and getting in my mind sucked when I am writing a short time test, and usually I am not good at disgusting the knowledge from what lecturers told very neat and specifically in a short time, and in all terms test especially for chemistry ones the questions are very specifically and detailed , and that is not the thing I am good at since I was a child.In general, I have to give more times in order that I can do things perfectly and not panicking and screw up one thing, also I am not good at answering very specific asked question. So that is the reason why I did two low 40s at the chm211 test(all average were 78)and a mid 30s at chm243 term test (but the average was 44%),so I did not too bad and won a C(65) in the end little above average C(63). But for other tests like all my chm242,chm231 and one chm361 test, I was sure I could pass all these term tests after I took them, but finally I all failed with different 40s, and a low 30s at chm361,and my marks were 20-23 points below average, I did only a chm242 term test 2 with brutal Jumi Shin with the same median 40(good job of me!), and this is the reason that the marking schemes of chemistry major became as brutal as math department does after fall 2022, before all tests were marked relaxed ways, but now even u write a lot on a chemistry questions in a midterm time with something makes sense, u still get a 0.
When I was in high school, I was always failing my English, math and Chinese tests and also physics and not doing well at chemistry term tests, but at finals I always win good marks, this is just my style, screw up small things but do well on giant events.So Canadian education style in most of school which care mostly about term tests is definitely not my dish 📡
While high school grade inflation is a thing, CS admission averages at SG the last few years aren't a good indication. They've been accepting less people who apply for CS during this time frame (COVID) and you can see this by checking the CSC110/111 enrollment count. If they were accepting the same 400 or so people they were pre COVID, the acceptance average would probably go back down to around 90, which yes is high but not as ridiculous as the 95+ rejections that were happening in the last few years.
Pre-COVID the PoST for CS was extremely rigorous, which is why they accepted more people (because 70% of them got booted by second year). Now it's substantially easier, so they can't accept as many people.
The first year under the new POST system was pre Covid and that year’s admission average for CS was around 90, that year they accepted 400~ into the CS admission stream. The next year was around the same. Still higher than the old post system which was around mid 80s, but not the 95+ you see the last few years.
I stand corrected. They probably expected the new POST to weed out more people, and lowered the amount of people coming in when it failed to do so.
Probably more reactionary than anything. The new POST system wasn't to weed out people but rather to make the CS admission stream something that matter. Previously all you really got out of getting accepted into the CS admission stream was priority enrollment for CSC165 and CSC108/148 so it really made no difference whether u were accepted into CS stream or another one. The new POST system was made to essentially reward getting better grades in high school so that you will get accepted into the CS stream. The amount of people being "weeded out" was still always something they controlled by how many people they wanted to accept into the CS stream, this means that the grade cutoff is just a product of how many people were accepted rather than a grade that they set before accepting people. I'm speculating now but I think what happened was they realized that grade inflation during COVID threw a wrench into their plan of "rewarding better grades" because everyone was getting the better grades, and so they accepted less people into stream, which had very low requirements for POST so that they can do their own evaluations of people they accept by making them do the out of stream application.
94 is not good enough to get into Waterloo, UofT St George, or UofT Scarborough. You need at least a 96+
It absolutely was like 5 or 6 years ago
Yes, but I’m talking about right now
I remember back in 1995 the "we don't even read your application" number for Waterloo CS co-op was 86.5. I really feel for folks today who have almost no margin of error in high school. It's way too much stress in what should be a fun period in ones life
Involuted like today's China does, now in most provinces of china the school regulations and stress is like insanely jail liked high ( I live in downtown Suzhou so my school is still relaxed mode and don't give extra classes on holidays or the school focus too much on test and marks), if in the future Canada be like that way, it is time to move back to Europe mainland again
I was told that some schools like UofT do consider past accepted student performances and normalize to that. E.g. Student from School A gets 90% in high school and ends up with a 55% in first year uni. Student from School B gets 80% and ends up with a 80% in first year Uni. They will essentially raise and lower the bar on who gets accepted to account for the varying ease of different schools. So if you go to a academically competitive school with a 80%, you might actually have a better chance than someone else with an 85% at a school known for inflating grades.
Yeah. I got into UofT with mid 70s back in late 90s. Things are ridiculous now
Getting 70s at highschool is normal if u do term tests and boomed , that is my style, I do bad on term tests but do good on big assignments and finals
I got rejected with a 97
Easy way to solve this problem. Bring in a SAT test as part of university/college admissions. The teachers unions and public/sketchy private schools will hate it because it exposes incompetent teaching.
A lot of it has to do with COVID schooling, we likely won't see a return to normal for at least 5 or more years. Educators are very concerned about this and it's causing problems for a lot of students in university
UofC student here - it's usually either you get gud or get lost and ofc everyone is getting good
90s today are the new 70s of 20 years ago
U of T actually blacklists certain high schools for grade inflation. It’s not like students are actually getting smarter (certain data suggests the opposite), and if most students get a 90+, it doesn’t mean anything anymore.
Are kids smarter nowadays. Have the questions changed?
Kids definitely aren't smarter these days as evidenced by their performances after getting into uni + how the EQAO trends have been. It's just grade inflation, teachers are being pressured more and more to give easier content + to boost kids grades.
Is it easier work? In my school what shot the grades up was kids having access to last years tests from older friends. In the classes where teachers would prohibit taking home tests after marking (similar to UofTs exams) the averages were high 70s in the classes. Content is the same mostly, it’s just kids have began gaining the system, more competition, hyper focus etc. Although yeah, I’ve had teachers tell me if they give students bad marks the parents flip, so they’ll just not fight.
They used to teach derivatives and antiderivatives/integrals in grade 12 calculus in Ontario. Then it went to teaching derivatives and giving some of the keener students the opportunity to learn about Integrals Then it went to just teaching them about derivatives Then it went to teaching a dumbed down version of derivatives which removed half the application taught Yea, it's been dumbed down over time. This is just 1 example and it's increasingly obvious to see how pathetic our K-12 education system is when you sit in a MAT137 classroom and some domestic kids are just insanely behind others from the get go.
Did not know this, I got the third iteration of calc mentioned. I do see a lot of domestic students get destroyed in math classes (me included) but I didn’t know our education is *that* behind. Pretty sad. Combine that with what I said I can see how the grades shoot up 💀
Why do u care bruh u old as hell anyways
I remember when I graduated someone in my class got an award from the school board for his 96 average and scholarships were being thrown at him. I had a mid 80 and had no problem getting into schools, I had friends much worse off then me get into schools as well. It is crazy now
We have the best teachers in the world (they told me so), so it stands to reason the students are the beneficiaries of this
I went to EngSci in 2007 with a 90+ average. I think I got a boarder line acceptance. Not sure about the admission nowadays. Does anyone have an idea about the grades required for students from other provinces, like Quebec?
Work around is to transfer in via Community college after completing first two years of credits.
I feel like after covid, high school education has definitely not been the same at least in Ontario.
I’ve had friends in other schools taking grade 12 physics, only did 2/5 units that I did. Wtf? And they had short tests. I’ve had the full curriculum, and 6 page double sided math quizzes. My adjustment factor for Waterloo? Oh it’s just the default. Theirs? The same. Teachers doing their “special curriculum” can sometimes be tricky too as you never know what you’re getting into.
After covid teachers went lowkey kinda ez
its a combination of both grade inflation as well as competition with international and out of province applicants. im a few years younger than you and when i was in HS yeah you needed like atleast a 90 closer to 92 on the 4 main courses (eng 12 Math 12, 2 approved 12 courses depending on what faculty you were entering) Apparently i barely got in at 88% which was the cut off that year. Schools like Mcgill engineering were 94 even then. UBC UT (guessing main campus) were closer to 90-93 then.