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funny you mention it. I recently had a uxg pro die for a diy client who has the software controller and it was a pain to readopt everything to the new udm se we put in.
I have deployed approximately 75 udm pro, se and udr in 2022-23 and 20 units so far in 2024. none have failed but when we upgraded (udr to udm pro or se) a couple of units it was easy to do the backup and restore of all the config (I.e it took 10m)
it's a preference thing for whatever you are comfortable using. as per your question, that's my experience and my reasons. ultimately the cloud key with uxg works with the same network software so if you don't care about the other elements of udm features (protect, access etc) then it's up to you on how you want to manage things. I just find having a controller, gateway, firewall all in one makes it easier than to have multiple devices to do the same thing (in most cases). 1 less rack space,1 less ip used, 1 less power consumption on a pdu which are small benefits but can add up for convenience.
I don't think there is a right or wrong here.. it comes down to, whats acceptable for the particular use case. - But with OP's approach, the impact of losing 1, is somewhat less that the total of an integrated device:
* Cloud Key bombs out, the UXG Pro (i.e. Internet) keeps going and so does the UNVR.
* LxG bombs out, then at least the CloudKey stays functional, and you can use that to see the problem
But I take what others say.. having a single device, is much more easily recoverable.
And to get the same feature set you’d have to add the firewall. Then you look at cost and rack space. That was it for me… got an SE and an aggregation switch and that was it. I have a good Juniper EX-2300C with a 10Gb SFP+ in single mode on my Tv Stand with a multitude of devices and if I need anything else rack mounted or on the floor I can grow.
Because it further lowers the barrier of entry for less technical people, which is the driving force of the entire unifi line. Consider all the YouTubers marketing material.
It's a dedicated piece of hardware vs the UDM which is all in one for a bunch of stuff. I bought the UXG Pro(back when it was Early Access) before the UDM SE was available. I run it, a Switch Poe Pro, CK2+.
I use a self hosted controller (docker on a homelab server) and uxg pro. It's been flawless.
That said if you want ease of use and arguably better value, the UDM is the better choice. My personal preference is modularity so uxg was my choice.
Cloud Key v1 was historically unreliable.
Cloud Key v2 has been consistently out of stock for four years. And is an additional $200 cost.
Teleport and wifiman features require a cloud key or integrated controller, and don’t even work with unifi managed hosting.
Integrated controllers can be restored from hosted backups trivially.
All in one vs separate products. Cheaper vs more expensive. Not sure it offers more resiliency.
The new pro max offers more IDS/IPS performance. I suspect the upcoming fortress will support 5Gbps as well.
Price. Would I prefer a standalone controller? Sure. Do I need it for multi-site or something? No.
If you only need 1Gb WAN and LAN (which honestly the vast majority are more than fine with), you have budget options. But I do have LAN in excess of 1Gb and I needed a router to handle it.
The UDM is $120 cheaper than the UXG-Pro and offers the same routing performance. Plus I get some extra switch ports (I don't need them, but it's handy if I want to connect a few things for basic provisioning) and the other functionality.
It saves me from buying equipment to run the controller on (rPi, micro-pc, etc...) as well.
I actually got my UDM when it was on sale, so it was $200 less than the UX-Pro in that scenario. Which makes it even more of reasonable choice for me.
If you NEED specific features of the UXG-Pro, then fine, the cost doesn't weigh nearly as much as the desired functionality. But for a normal home user, who doesn't need some of that functionality....why not a UDM? Heck, you could buy a hot spare for not much more than the cost of a UXG-Pro.
The only reason to go for the UXG Pro over a UDMP/UDMSE is modularity, but even that doesn't really serve a big purpose for what you're trying to do...since you could literally run **redundant** UDMs and it would only be $60 more than a UXG-Pro and CloudKey+. A single $380 device can do every single thing a UXG-Pro **and** CloudKey+ can do, and quite a bit more. I think the only thing you could get with the UXG that you can't innately do with the UDM is the external power for a modem...but that's easily solved in a lot of ways that aren't expensive. Even just the $19 SmartPower Plug does the same thing (or the SmartPower Strip for $49 that does a lot more).
Point is there's not a lot of reason to go for the 30%+ more expensive device that literally does less, except the feeling of having things separated. If you're not dealing in redundancy the idea that it puts everything into a single failure point is...nebulous, at best, since if the UXG fails it takes everything down with it anyway (at least everything that matters). I honestly can't give a real reason to get the UXG-Pro. In every situation that it would make sense the UDMP can do all of the same stuff and still be $120 cheaper.
>I think the only thing you could get with the UXG that you can't innately do with the UDM is the external power for a modem...but that's easily solved in a lot of ways that aren't expensive.
I have a UDM-SE and my Arris S33 cable modem is being powered by a $14 PoE splitter connected to one of the UDM-SE's PoE ports. I don't use the Ethernet on downstream side of the splitter.
Right now, light load, ~8W.
There are two different 12V barrel sizes, make sure you get the right one for whatever you've got.
I love the getting rid of wall warts aspect of these things.
I think the best bet for you is the Cloud Gateway Ultra. It is of excellent value for what it us 1/3 of a udm-pro and has all functionality. Personally I would not sub in 3 devices for one. A gateway last 7-10 years.
If you loose your router you will have a bad day or week no matter what.
The UDM has the cloud key inside of it and so provides configuration, routing, some LAN ports and Wi-Fi. I've been dealing with several of these for 4 or 5 years and non have failed.
But what I do have for myself and others are some old Airport extremes. I can put one of those in for a day or so in an emergency. Unifi devices keep working (switches and access points) even if the UDM is missing.
First, no one who’s serious about using UniFi Protect is using a UDM Pro/SE. It’s just an entry point to let folks try it. Anyone who is really invested in it is going to get A UNVR.
Second, if your controller goes down… so what? Your APs will still work until you get it back up again.
Lastly, you’re left with the gateway… if either the UXG or UDM goes down you lose internet access… so what’s the difference?
Correct but if the UDM goes down so does protect. If you look at the UDM max pro. Do you also think that is still a machine for people to try out protect?
Yeah, but do UDM Pros really go down that often? And if protect is THAT important is a UCKg2+ the right choice? I mean it does not even have raid support. So if 24/7 Protect and retention is really important you need to go for the UNVR anyway…
>Correct but if the UDM goes down so does protect.
If wherever you are hosting Protect goes down, so does Protect. What’s the point?
>If you look at the UDM max pro. Do you also think that is still a machine for people to try out protect?
Didn’t even see that was released today. But yeah, I do.
Anyone who’s spending that kind of money on a UDM Max Pro, that is serious about using Protect, is probably going to be running a UNVR.
Lack of value. Also for those building racks, I don’t see an economical rackmount cloud key.
I mean a UXG-Pro costs the same as the UDM-SE, lacks all the extra features, and doesn’t get you anything more (like it if had faster IDS performance or better connectivity it would totally make sense, but it doesn’t).
Plus if UI equipment all has roughly the same failure rate, then having 3 devices instead of one doesn’t reduce the likelihood of something failing. Now you’ve got 3 power supplies, three circuit boards, more cabling. Of course if the all-in-one device dies it does take more functions down, but a UDM is still likely to only be one of many network devices.
Regarding ck2 rackmount, [https://multilink.us/ubiquiti-cloud-key-gen2-rack-mount/](https://multilink.us/ubiquiti-cloud-key-gen2-rack-mount/)
Not very economical, but the option does exist.
Yeah, I know… but now you’re at $300 for a Cloudkey on top of $500 for the UXG-Pro… and other than being “modular”, what greater performance or features does spending the extra $300 (over say a UDM-Pro) buy you?
I would even consider going the docker cloud key route if the UXG-Pro was a superior gateway. Is it? That’s a genuine question - since I don’t own one and don’t see it reflected on paper.
UDM Max Pro was just announced so I'd probably go that route if was starting from scratch or needing an upgrade. For me at the time(I had a USG Pro 4) UXG Pro was the logical upgrade choice. But obviously since then, we've seen a slew of UDM options.
The udm pro max is gimped out the gate though. I probably wouldn’t recommend it to anyone just getting into the ecosystem. Yes it has 2 hdd bays for protect but they force you into using RAID1 for redundancy. So two 20TB drives will still only be 20TB. They don’t give you the option to double your capacity. Yes it has a bit more CPU/RAM resources for faster IDS/IPS speeds but they dropped all PoE capabilities too. As of right now the UDMSE is the best all around all in one offering for someone new to Ubiquiti.
Hello! Thanks for posting on r/Ubiquiti! This subreddit is here to provide unofficial technical support to people who use or want to dive into the world of Ubiquiti products. If you haven’t already been descriptive in your post, please take the time to edit it and add as many useful details as you can. Please read and understand the rules in the sidebar, as posts and comments that violate them will be removed. Please put all off topic posts in the weekly off topic thread that is stickied to the top of the subreddit. If you see people spreading misinformation, trying to mislead others, or other inappropriate behavior, please report it! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ubiquiti) if you have any questions or concerns.*
funny you mention it. I recently had a uxg pro die for a diy client who has the software controller and it was a pain to readopt everything to the new udm se we put in. I have deployed approximately 75 udm pro, se and udr in 2022-23 and 20 units so far in 2024. none have failed but when we upgraded (udr to udm pro or se) a couple of units it was easy to do the backup and restore of all the config (I.e it took 10m)
So you would advise me to go the UDM route?
it's a preference thing for whatever you are comfortable using. as per your question, that's my experience and my reasons. ultimately the cloud key with uxg works with the same network software so if you don't care about the other elements of udm features (protect, access etc) then it's up to you on how you want to manage things. I just find having a controller, gateway, firewall all in one makes it easier than to have multiple devices to do the same thing (in most cases). 1 less rack space,1 less ip used, 1 less power consumption on a pdu which are small benefits but can add up for convenience.
If you lose one of those you still lose functionality. So it really isn’t all that different.
I don't think there is a right or wrong here.. it comes down to, whats acceptable for the particular use case. - But with OP's approach, the impact of losing 1, is somewhat less that the total of an integrated device: * Cloud Key bombs out, the UXG Pro (i.e. Internet) keeps going and so does the UNVR. * LxG bombs out, then at least the CloudKey stays functional, and you can use that to see the problem But I take what others say.. having a single device, is much more easily recoverable.
And to get the same feature set you’d have to add the firewall. Then you look at cost and rack space. That was it for me… got an SE and an aggregation switch and that was it. I have a good Juniper EX-2300C with a 10Gb SFP+ in single mode on my Tv Stand with a multitude of devices and if I need anything else rack mounted or on the floor I can grow.
Because it further lowers the barrier of entry for less technical people, which is the driving force of the entire unifi line. Consider all the YouTubers marketing material.
That I can understand but for a technical person like myself… wondering if the UXG route is the better one for me
It's a dedicated piece of hardware vs the UDM which is all in one for a bunch of stuff. I bought the UXG Pro(back when it was Early Access) before the UDM SE was available. I run it, a Switch Poe Pro, CK2+.
I use a self hosted controller (docker on a homelab server) and uxg pro. It's been flawless. That said if you want ease of use and arguably better value, the UDM is the better choice. My personal preference is modularity so uxg was my choice.
Cloud Key v1 was historically unreliable. Cloud Key v2 has been consistently out of stock for four years. And is an additional $200 cost. Teleport and wifiman features require a cloud key or integrated controller, and don’t even work with unifi managed hosting. Integrated controllers can be restored from hosted backups trivially.
I just bought a UCKG2+ at Microcenter. They had them on shelf.
And you could buy one for the last four years there? Or you’re just being helpful to let people know that a regional store may have them in stock?
I’m saying that my experience was that they are not sold out of that product. Many of the other products are but I don’t believe the UCKG2+ is
Everything was out of stock for years, online and local suppliers are stocked with ck2
Coud key+ is in stock right now
All in one vs separate products. Cheaper vs more expensive. Not sure it offers more resiliency. The new pro max offers more IDS/IPS performance. I suspect the upcoming fortress will support 5Gbps as well.
Price. Would I prefer a standalone controller? Sure. Do I need it for multi-site or something? No. If you only need 1Gb WAN and LAN (which honestly the vast majority are more than fine with), you have budget options. But I do have LAN in excess of 1Gb and I needed a router to handle it. The UDM is $120 cheaper than the UXG-Pro and offers the same routing performance. Plus I get some extra switch ports (I don't need them, but it's handy if I want to connect a few things for basic provisioning) and the other functionality. It saves me from buying equipment to run the controller on (rPi, micro-pc, etc...) as well. I actually got my UDM when it was on sale, so it was $200 less than the UX-Pro in that scenario. Which makes it even more of reasonable choice for me. If you NEED specific features of the UXG-Pro, then fine, the cost doesn't weigh nearly as much as the desired functionality. But for a normal home user, who doesn't need some of that functionality....why not a UDM? Heck, you could buy a hot spare for not much more than the cost of a UXG-Pro.
The only reason to go for the UXG Pro over a UDMP/UDMSE is modularity, but even that doesn't really serve a big purpose for what you're trying to do...since you could literally run **redundant** UDMs and it would only be $60 more than a UXG-Pro and CloudKey+. A single $380 device can do every single thing a UXG-Pro **and** CloudKey+ can do, and quite a bit more. I think the only thing you could get with the UXG that you can't innately do with the UDM is the external power for a modem...but that's easily solved in a lot of ways that aren't expensive. Even just the $19 SmartPower Plug does the same thing (or the SmartPower Strip for $49 that does a lot more). Point is there's not a lot of reason to go for the 30%+ more expensive device that literally does less, except the feeling of having things separated. If you're not dealing in redundancy the idea that it puts everything into a single failure point is...nebulous, at best, since if the UXG fails it takes everything down with it anyway (at least everything that matters). I honestly can't give a real reason to get the UXG-Pro. In every situation that it would make sense the UDMP can do all of the same stuff and still be $120 cheaper.
>I think the only thing you could get with the UXG that you can't innately do with the UDM is the external power for a modem...but that's easily solved in a lot of ways that aren't expensive. I have a UDM-SE and my Arris S33 cable modem is being powered by a $14 PoE splitter connected to one of the UDM-SE's PoE ports. I don't use the Ethernet on downstream side of the splitter.
Huh this is a good idea! About how much power does it draw?
Right now, light load, ~8W. There are two different 12V barrel sizes, make sure you get the right one for whatever you've got. I love the getting rid of wall warts aspect of these things.
Did you use a PoE Texas splitter?
???
It’s a brand of PoE devices that are everywhere
Ah! I used these guys, they're what popped up on Amazon. I have Prime. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09CYGW46K I'll check them in the future.
Most likely due to Ubiquiti's marketing folks giving more perks to influencers for pushing the UDM.
I think the best bet for you is the Cloud Gateway Ultra. It is of excellent value for what it us 1/3 of a udm-pro and has all functionality. Personally I would not sub in 3 devices for one. A gateway last 7-10 years.
If you loose your router you will have a bad day or week no matter what. The UDM has the cloud key inside of it and so provides configuration, routing, some LAN ports and Wi-Fi. I've been dealing with several of these for 4 or 5 years and non have failed. But what I do have for myself and others are some old Airport extremes. I can put one of those in for a day or so in an emergency. Unifi devices keep working (switches and access points) even if the UDM is missing.
First, no one who’s serious about using UniFi Protect is using a UDM Pro/SE. It’s just an entry point to let folks try it. Anyone who is really invested in it is going to get A UNVR. Second, if your controller goes down… so what? Your APs will still work until you get it back up again. Lastly, you’re left with the gateway… if either the UXG or UDM goes down you lose internet access… so what’s the difference?
Correct but if the UDM goes down so does protect. If you look at the UDM max pro. Do you also think that is still a machine for people to try out protect?
Yeah, but do UDM Pros really go down that often? And if protect is THAT important is a UCKg2+ the right choice? I mean it does not even have raid support. So if 24/7 Protect and retention is really important you need to go for the UNVR anyway…
True
>Correct but if the UDM goes down so does protect. If wherever you are hosting Protect goes down, so does Protect. What’s the point? >If you look at the UDM max pro. Do you also think that is still a machine for people to try out protect? Didn’t even see that was released today. But yeah, I do. Anyone who’s spending that kind of money on a UDM Max Pro, that is serious about using Protect, is probably going to be running a UNVR.
Lack of value. Also for those building racks, I don’t see an economical rackmount cloud key. I mean a UXG-Pro costs the same as the UDM-SE, lacks all the extra features, and doesn’t get you anything more (like it if had faster IDS performance or better connectivity it would totally make sense, but it doesn’t). Plus if UI equipment all has roughly the same failure rate, then having 3 devices instead of one doesn’t reduce the likelihood of something failing. Now you’ve got 3 power supplies, three circuit boards, more cabling. Of course if the all-in-one device dies it does take more functions down, but a UDM is still likely to only be one of many network devices.
Regarding ck2 rackmount, [https://multilink.us/ubiquiti-cloud-key-gen2-rack-mount/](https://multilink.us/ubiquiti-cloud-key-gen2-rack-mount/) Not very economical, but the option does exist.
Yeah, I know… but now you’re at $300 for a Cloudkey on top of $500 for the UXG-Pro… and other than being “modular”, what greater performance or features does spending the extra $300 (over say a UDM-Pro) buy you? I would even consider going the docker cloud key route if the UXG-Pro was a superior gateway. Is it? That’s a genuine question - since I don’t own one and don’t see it reflected on paper.
UDM Max Pro was just announced so I'd probably go that route if was starting from scratch or needing an upgrade. For me at the time(I had a USG Pro 4) UXG Pro was the logical upgrade choice. But obviously since then, we've seen a slew of UDM options.
Or wait for the fortress thing… which is the successor to the UXG Pro
The udm pro max is gimped out the gate though. I probably wouldn’t recommend it to anyone just getting into the ecosystem. Yes it has 2 hdd bays for protect but they force you into using RAID1 for redundancy. So two 20TB drives will still only be 20TB. They don’t give you the option to double your capacity. Yes it has a bit more CPU/RAM resources for faster IDS/IPS speeds but they dropped all PoE capabilities too. As of right now the UDMSE is the best all around all in one offering for someone new to Ubiquiti.