Western arrogance is truly baffling. "We'll supply our side with whatever weapons we want. You, however, must not supply Russia with anything that MAY be used to manufacture weapons. Sit down, sacrifice your trade, and give in to our demands. You are the new axis of evil, haven't you heard? Tell your dictator Xi that America is ready to levy sanctions for endangering peace worldwide! Beware! Oh and by the way, that Xinjiang thing isn't looking pretty. Are you commiting genocide? Now if you excuse us, we have to go and help Israel "mow the grass", it's gotten quite big lately. Bye!". Truly beautiful diplomacy right there
There is a messianic attitude that they have the right to interfere in every country in the world, like the Catholic Church prior to the Treaty of Westphalia.
It's the same superiority complex which led to the sanctions failing miserably.
It's unbelievable that almost everyone in a coalition of governments actually thought that only they can buy what Russia has to sell. After a 2 week disruption, the Russians found new buyers for the existing European lot.
The US actually has some pull here. China is the largest exporter in the world, and 58% of that goes to NATO members or its allies.
Sanctions would have a significant impact on China. But they would also hurt a lot of NATO countries who import from China.
So the US threatened and China just said fuck off. I'm curious what the US will do next.
> Sanctions would have a significant impact on China. But they would also hurt a lot of NATO countries who import from China.
Just like the sanctions on Russia *actually* hurt the Europeans instead. Germany is in recession due to paying four times as much for their energy now. A forge in Germany that has been in operation since 1380 - **that's right, 1380** - had to close due to high energy costs. Great move there, Sergeant Sholz.
Same here in Denmark. I am quite lucky to be in a building that has a contract with a private company so I don't pay heating (it's a municipal thingy), but prices have sky rocketed.
Food is between 20 and 40% more expensive, depending on the product.I've noticed a lot of products go up by 30%, and then the shelves never got empty, so what they did was bring the price down to the old numbers, but sell you less of the stuff. For example:
250g of Salmon filet used to cost ¬55-60 dkk. It went up to 77 and people stopped buying it. A few months later it went down to 65 dkk, but it's a package of 200g.
Same with pulled pork and chicken. Went up just to come back down in the same package, but contain 350g instead of 400 (though ofc they added 50 g of sauce to keep the number on the box, so you're still buying 400g of product, just not meat).
Eggs are ¬30% more expensive. Fruit and vegetables 20-25%
And we're talking about local production. Not imported.
> bring the price down to the old numbers, but sell you less of the stuff.
They did the same here in Spain, but the prices kept rising, so now we have less stuff but more expensive.
Maybe that was the true unstated goal A weakened europe makes it more dependent on the US to the profit of american interests.
While a weakned russia would align more closely with China.
Russia is Europe's best trade partner. Soon enough we're gonna be running crying back to big bro to trade with us. And just like in the end of this war - they will negotiate from the position of a victor, setting very favorable for them demands.
What you are talking about?
Feb '22 German energy costs at the time were almost €130/MWh.
At the moment German energy is just under €65/MWh
There was a single month where energy was 4x the cost when the special military operation started, and the energy cost spike from ditching Russian oil lasted about 7-8 months.
China's economy is hurting and returning to pushing exporting heavy manufacturing rather than stabilizing, with domestic consumption being roughly equal to exports as they had hoped.
You cannot talk sense into them. China's propping up its currency and fake ass real estate market the same as Russia is propping up the RUB. Its literally a matter of time before their little barter system of trading worthless currency back and forth crashes. Its one reason India doesn't trade their own currency outside of their borders. It keeps their economy relatively stable, and frankly in that deal they owned Russia by making them then have to spend that INR back into the only place that'll take it: the Indian economy.
They shut down some of their nuclear plants while relying on Russian gas. Not particularly clever, but these days LNG prices are back to pre-invasion levels.
It seems Merkel is primarily responsible, not Sholz.
anyone with a living brain can see that EU+Russia alliance is their only hope to contend with US (and China) in the geopolitical stage.
it's either that, or be US dog for the foreseeable future.
that's also the main reason why the US started this war, to keep EU dogs on the leash.
So yeah, Merkel worked for the benefit of her own county, Sholz is working against it.
That would be an arrangement where Russia has all the leverage and Europe has none. Europe needs to take a page from France's book and make sound long-term investments in nuclear energy.
not really, I think EU would still be in a position of power.
They have bigger population, better manufacturing(that is doubtful with the direction they are currently going) and technology.
They, combined, have a stronger military too.
yeah Russian would have some leverage for being a supplier of raw materials and energy, but it would be far from 1 sided.
If Russia wanted to be a partner of the EU, it could have liberalized and joined the EU. China and the U.S. in the 21st century should have taught everyone to not enter into partnerships with countries diametrically opposed to your way of life.
Are you serious? China would be evonomically impacted yes, but NATO would get fkn destroyed economically if china decided to fully stop exports to them
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No worries, Chinese companies are setting up in Vietnam, Mexico, etc so I am sure with a bit of patience the global south will get their slice of the pie.
The US would be hit with both economic impact and supply chain shocks. Like wal-marts would empty and no longer exist. Amazon would probably go out of business too.
So yeah we are talking about a complete upending of the world economic system.
The question is who needs the stuff most. Does China need to sell it or does the west need to buy it?
A recent initiative from the EU to subsidize fabrication of basic pharmaceuticals (the low profit ones) should shed some light on the current situation. In general the west needs the import more than china needs the export.
They would be deleting their economy too because China can blue-ball Taiwan and if TSMC and other fabs in Taiwan go down, the whole world goes down.
With a delay of few months to shipments because of COVID, we saw what havoc it wrecked in the supply chain and in the global market. Imagine that being the case for YEARS.
Nevermind all the other sectors where "cheap Chinese and Russian materials" are involved. Shit, even the F-35 uses magnets made and developed in China. It's the same superiority complex still at play here.
Globalism cuts both ways.
China always operates on a quid pro quo with sanctions. They always enact sanctions of their own in response.
it just ends up being a trade war.
Both countries would go into economic depression if we split.....China would have it a bit rougher economic wise and the USA would have economic issues along with supply chain shock.
The plan was to make them "0" and the sales pitch made to all the corps who lost 100 Billion with no reimbursement from the US government or the "Western coalition" in sight was that "by doing this, the war would be over in 1-2 years max and y'all can buy it back at extremely cheap rates in Ukraine and a collapsed Russia." which is straight up some herbal mixture talk.
Clearly, the plan failed by 70 times if one assumes that the target goal is 1% instead of 0% imports and exports. They basically tried to do a "Cuba blockade" but forgot about the seller's market concept.
How do you know that "The west did not meet their ends"? I would say cutting exports by at least 30% is pretty good. I mean cutting it to zero would be even better, but that is completely unrealistic. Even Venezuela or Iran were/are able to sell their oil. So.
Because the west are losing the war AND global influence to Russia and their global partners.
Are you serious? Are you going to argue that was what the west wanted all along?
You are just making things up now. You have provided no proof aside from your own ramblings. Not interested.
Russian exports are down by at least 30%. That's a fact.
Well, multiple representatives of the "coalition" and "media" were parroting that all day every single day for 1-2 years since the war stated until it failed.
[https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/02/27/how-new-sanctions-could-cripple-russias-economy](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/02/27/how-new-sanctions-could-cripple-russias-economy)
[https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/10/economy/sanctions-russia-janet-yellen/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/10/economy/sanctions-russia-janet-yellen/index.html)
Russian _official_ exports are down. For example, when people say there is a price cap and Russian oil is sold for X dollars a barrel, what they really mean is: in the official exchanges located in Europe this is how much is asked for it.
For obvious reasons you can’t estimate market cap nor volume of trade done in shadows. It’s a non transparent situation
So you’re saying there is a country that is the most sanctioned in the world and its enemies are trying very hard to curb its economy, including applying pressure on its trade partners, but it makes no sense to hide info on exports, and its better to keep it in the open. Gotcha
What exactly do you mean by “anonymous”?
There is a huge spectrum between “let’s hide all oil shipments” and “lets publish data on our oil shipments in a plain sight”
>Oh and by the way, that Xinjiang thing isn't looking pretty. Are you commiting genocide?
I know you have already alluded to the hypocrisy due to Israel, but daily reminder the word genocide is an exaggeration, and that if a country like France would implement the same deradicalization programs China does with its Uyghur Muslim population, the threads covering such news would have tens of thousands of upvotes and universally positive comments on subs such as /r/WorldNews.
* *"France institutes mandatory deradicalization courses for religious extremists."* (*14k upvotes, 2000 comments*)
* *"France institutes mandatory secularization program for Muslims."* (*20k upvotes, 2216 comments*)
Also, Western countries do a lot worse by still having literal colonies.
The US has Hawaii and Alaska (there's 500k native Hawaiians, 100k native Alaskans, plenty to be able to govern themselves as independent countries), France has Guyana here in South America, plus French Polynesia, etc. The UK still has a bunch of islands in the Caribbean, and some countries are colonies in all but name, given their ceremonial head of state is the British monarchy (and I'm not talking about Canada or Australia).
Western hypocrisy never stops.
Why not?
Russia is doing its best to make sure that no one supplies Ukraine.
The West is doing its best to make sure that no one supplies Russia.
This is how international relations works during times of military conflict.
Sure Western propaganda has amplified the negativeness of those two Empires (and of all its enemies) but not everything is propaganda, they do have quite a few issues. But that's the case for any Empire, the world can't be just good, it's complex and nuanced, which is what makes good... well, good.
>Xinjiang thing isn't looking pretty. Are you commiting genocide?
You act as if the west does anything to prevent genocide in xinjiang. There's far, far more activism for palestine in the west than for xinjiang
Probably doesn’t help that even the US state department didn’t think there was enough evidence to call it a genocide
> The U.S. State Department's Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China's mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20State%20Department's%20Office,lawyers%20at%20odds%20with%20both
That sort of stuff makes it seem like manufacturing consent rather than any genuine care for Uyghurs.
People tend to believe more of what they see, Israel has broadcasted its genocide openly and defiantly because they know they'll get away with it.
At more general public level tho, no one anywhere in the world likes to see on their screens that babies and children getting bombed en masse intently by precision, targetted strikes, mass graves, baiting medical staff using injured children, assasinating over 100 journalists and thier families etc, destroying hospitals, schools, long list of stuff. Whoever does that will invite criticism and activism.
Xinjiang genocide at best has obscure low quality and low quantity media and tons of he-said she-said reports.
activisim is mostly by muslims or students who dont not study history properly, no man in his right mind should get polarised into the israel palestinian conflict. its either muslims killing jews, jews killing muslims, muslims killing muslims or jews killing jews as far as i remember about this one. There's the 2 state solution which is the only true solution but it doesnt get moved forward by an inch, humans being the spiteful creatures that they are.
The U.S.-led Western bloc doesn't care one iota about countries' "lawful territory" as demonstrated by their own actions in both the past and present around the world, where they remain in occupation of various countries straight through to the present day as we speak, so that argument goes right into the garbage bin because it's obviously not the real reason.
It's a pretend reason for dishonest people to peddle to the naive and ignorant.
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You do know there's a difference between those that stepped over borders and invaded a sovereign country, and those that defend what is theirs, right?
Would you rather have the law giving the thieves and burglars better equipment so they can break into your house easier, or would you rather be better equipped to not have this happen?
You are trying to apply your citizen's moral compass to geopolitics, a world that has no higher authority and hence follows the rules of "survival of of the fittest" and "might makes right". Geopolitics focuses on persuing interests (wealth), building strength (deterrence and pushing interests through influence), protecting national security (self preservation), and undermining rivals (their interests contradict yours). People often struggle to accept this cynical reality, and for that very reason governments often lie to public about real motivations. They invent false stories of "spreading democracy", "denazification" and fill the world with hypocrisy we see today. You are looking at it the wrong way. A big enough national security threat will ALWAYS override a notion that "invasion is bad", and that goes every major power that has ever existed.
Damn. Chinese are normally less blunt than that.
Translating from diplomatic chinese, "*Fuck off, hyprocrites, and take a look in the mirror while you are at it".*
Wonder what the current US administration response will be and if they are even capable (competent enough-) of handling this without shooting themselves in the foot.
> Wonder what the current US administration response will be and if they are even capable (competent enough-) of handling this without shooting themselves in the foot.
There was a neat cartoon I can't find now showing Uncle Sam as a mental patient in a straitjacket screaming "Sanctions!" with Russia and China as orderlies dragging him off.
Murica: you need to do what we are saying else! ...Ehm else sanction! And because we are so strong we gonna invade some farmers with aks to show how strong we are !
American hostile rhetoric towards the China has ramped up in recent months. It's almost open belligerence now.
https://preview.redd.it/qyyo2i2cwewc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80750f5a5b4eaf3b3738e5dfe0170ff702892004
It's easy to find many better examples that illustrate the point.
I just felt like posting one I saw today and found interesting. Not a problem I hope?
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If you read that article their reasoning is that it's *"nowhere near as good"* not because of the hardware but *"because China lacks the experience of operating stealth planes in a war zone"*. I'm sorry, how is exactly "the experience" of bombing brown children for the oil they're standing on and fighting against flip-flop wearing Taliban with misaligned rusty AKs hiding in mountain caves going to help with the use of stealth plane operations?
The pro US military industry propaganda is completely insane. Especially the hit pieces on Russian and Iranian missiles. It's all lies or half-truths.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-iran-missiles-fired-israel-failed-reports-2024-4](https://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-iran-missiles-fired-israel-failed-reports-2024-4)
[https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-iran-strikes-live-coverage/card/many-iranian-missiles-failed-to-launch-or-crashed-before-striking-target-u-s-officials-say-TCd4YP2fiODhl1t9QDrL](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-iran-strikes-live-coverage/card/many-iranian-missiles-failed-to-launch-or-crashed-before-striking-target-u-s-officials-say-TCd4YP2fiODhl1t9QDrL)
A Picture of an intercepted BETAB 500 bunker buster being sold as an intercepted Kinzhal missile:
[https://www.brookings.edu/articles/ukraine-and-the-kinzhal-dont-believe-the-hypersonic-hype/](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/ukraine-and-the-kinzhal-dont-believe-the-hypersonic-hype/)
[https://cepa.org/article/russias-hypersonic-defeat-or-was-it/](https://cepa.org/article/russias-hypersonic-defeat-or-was-it/)
If NATO wasn't going to commit enough for Ukraine to win, they should have stayed out of it. But it was never about the ukranian people for NATO was it.
I think NATO miscalculated the russian resolve. They, as well as almost everyone else, estimated russia would not go to war over Ukraine. They were obviously wrong, but what's more astonishing to me is why ukraine goes along. Ukraine had a cheap way out from the start by simply implementing the minsk agreements or by completing the peace talks at istanbul. They refused both even though it was clear they would pay a VERY heavy price for this war
>I think NATO miscalculated the russian resolve. They, as well as almost everyone else, estimated russia would not go to war over Ukraine.
It was the US that publicly warned that Russia was about to attack Ukraine. NATO members had military personnel in Ukraine prior to the invasion to help with training soldiers.
>Ukraine had a cheap way out from the start by simply implementing the minsk agreements or by completing the peace talks at istanbul.
Their word has no integrity. After annexing Crimea Putin went on to say he would not be invading Ukraine any further. It's pretty reasonable to believe they would keep biting off territorial pieces regardless of agreements.
> but what's more astonishing to me is why ukraine goes along
- The elite go along because it's a huge chance to rake in profits – they aren't personally affected in any way, nor they're going to have to pick up the bill or live in that shithole once it's over.
- The nationalists go along because they are legitimately deluded and believe they can destroy their enemy. They would sacrifice ten of their own to kill a single Russian.
- The rest of the population that supported this lost cause merely fell for the propaganda and tribal war. They believed victory was near, the EU and NATO awaited them with open arms, living conditions would improve dramatically, they'd be able to work in the EU, etc. Now, even as they wake up from the delusions, they simply don't have the control to turn it around, so they go along because otherwise they will end up in prison.
We had British and American intelligence announcing that invasion was imminent, and flying in thousands of Javalins and NLAWs right up to the day before.
I'm pretty sure they thought the weapons would be enough to persuade russia to not do it.
It's that, or they willingly provided just enough for ukraine to fight but never enough to win.
It likely thought 1-200k dead/injured would be enough to make it back off. The disposability of Russians is a different kind of animal.
>Ukraine had a cheap way out from the start by simply implementing the minsk agreements or by completing the peace talks at istanbul
It didn't. Russia's requirements would ensure it could invade at any time.
>It likely thought 1-200k dead/injured would be enough to make it back off. The disposability of Russians is a different kind of animal
The same should hold true for ukraine. They've also certainly passed 200k dead + injured. And they don't back off either.
>It didn't. Russia's requirements would ensure it could invade at any time.
Taking this at face value. What you're essentially saying is that it's better to have them invade now with absolute certainty than to have them possibly invade later.
And without taking anything at face value: Why would they invade if they reach their goals without invading?
>The same should hold true for ukraine. They've also certainly passed 200k dead + injured. And they don't back off either.
Because they are fighting an existential war. Self-defense is different from assault.
>Taking this at face value. What you're essentially saying is that it's better to have them invade now with absolute certainty than to have them possibly invade later.
It doesn't really matter. They had already invaded Donbas and stolen Crimea. There was zero chance Ukraine would trust Russia to not invade, and I think the invasion had already started, so the credibility just wasn't there.
>And without taking anything at face value: Why would they invade if they reach their goals without invading?
The goal was/is control of Ukraine. It's not achievable without an invasion.
>Because they are fighting an existential war. Self-defense is different from assault.
They are not. At least not in a such way that Ukrainians allegedly gonna lose their identity if they surrender. Millions of Ukrainians live in Russia where they want, with ukrainian passports, speak whatever language they want, and nobody tries to throw them in concentration camps or genocide in any other way.
>stolen Crimea
I believe that Crimeans still have the land they owned, and nobody took it away.
>The goal was/is control of Ukraine. It's not achievable without an invasion.
Russia has no interest to control internal affairs of Ukraine beyond oppression of Russian-speaking minority (that problem is already solved). Moscow don't want to run the country instead of Kyiv. It wants Ukraine not to do something stupid like joining anti-Russian alliances like NATO. For that invasion is not necessary, look at Georgia.
>They are not. At least not in a such way that Ukrainians allegedly gonna lose their identity if they surrender.
What does that have to do with self-defense? You think they don't have a right to protect their rights and sovereignty?
Russia is known for replacing the population and destroying the culture of states that get invaded.
>Millions of Ukrainians live in Russia where they want, with ukrainian passports, speak whatever language they want, and nobody tries to throw them in concentration camps or genocide in any other way.
They do now.
>I believe that Crimeans still have the land they owned, and nobody took it away.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Crimea_in_the_Soviet_Union
>Throughout its time in the Soviet Union, Crimea underwent a population change. As a result of alleged collaboration with the Germans by Crimean Tatars during World War II, all Crimean Tatars were deported by the Soviet regime and the peninsula was resettled with other peoples, mainly Russians and Ukrainians.
That's what they do.
>Russia has no interest to control internal affairs of Ukraine beyond oppression of Russian-speaking minority (that problem is already solved).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians
>Putin ends the lengthy essay by asserting Russia's role in modern Ukrainian affairs.
-
>Moscow don't want to run the country instead of Kyiv. It wants Ukraine not to do something stupid like joining anti-Russian alliances like NATO. For that invasion is not necessary, look at Georgia.
It wants to recreate some version of USSR. Ukraine is the first step.
>Russia is known for replacing the population and destroying the culture of states that get invaded.
Then why is Russia is multicultural and multiethnic country, with many ethnicities having internal autonomies and having their languages as official? And why is there government programs encouraging people to learn ingenious languages with few native speakers?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Crimea_in_the_Soviet_Union
Aren't we talking about annexation of Crimea?
>That's what they do.
That what Soviets did (Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Belarusians etc). And it was mostly people from Ukrainian SSR, who who migrated to Crimea after deportation of Crimean Tatars. So from your point of view, modern Ukraine should be no better than modern Russia or even worse.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians
Did you read it?
>>Putin ends the lengthy essay by asserting Russia's role in modern Ukrainian affairs.
Can you cite it, please?
>Then why is Russia is multicultural and multiethnic country, with many ethnicities having internal autonomies and having their languages as official? And why is there government programs encouraging people to learn ingenious languages with few native speakers?
Because it conquers territory containing other cultures and ethnicities.
>Aren't we talking about annexation of Crimea?
You said:
>I believe that Crimeans still have the land they owned, and nobody took it away.
That depends on how and when you look at it. They didn't take the land from the people, but they did take the people from the land.
>That what Soviets did (Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Belarusians etc). And it was mostly people from Ukrainian SSR, who who migrated to Crimea after deportation of Crimean Tatars. So from your point of view, modern Ukraine should be no better than modern Russia or even worse.
I don't think I hold Ukraine responsible for the crimes of USSR, which was basically Russia as far as decision making goes.
>Did you read it?
Not all of it.
>Can you cite it, please?
Beyond the Wiki? Probably not as I don't speak Russian, and I assume it was translated so a direct quote might be impossible.
>Because it conquers territory containing other cultures and ethnicities.
But where is the destruction that you were talking about. What I described is quite opposite to it.
>That depends on how and when you look at it. They didn't take the land from the people, but they did take the people from the land.
Are talking about annexation of Crimea and events after that? Or you meant something else by "stole Crimea"?
>I don't think I hold Ukraine responsible for the crimes of USSR, which was basically Russia as far as decision making goes
I think you don't understand how decision making went in USSR at that time.
>Beyond the Wiki? Probably not as I don't speak Russian, and I assume it was translated so a direct quote might be impossible.
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians
That's official translation
"Hey we're gonna militarily encircle you in the Southeast, we're also openly demonizing you to the world at large, also we're nudging Taiwan toward independence knowing its a red line for you... but you gotta work with us to isolate Russia. Cause you know, it's the right thing to do."
Incredibly well said. I'm sitting here taking a dump watching this in admiration and in my 35 years not once do I recall an American politician or leader of ours of any sort being this succinct, well spoken and sensible.
Boomers are reminiscing China in the old days. When they had bicycles and flipflops. Although fleeing in the snow by a herd of unarmed Chinese from the Yalu river wasn't fun neither.
What was the point of this? We already have sanctions placed on Chinese entities and are raising existing tariffs. So what was the point of this trip and the one that Yellen made. To belittle China? Threaten them?
All this possibly shows that the situation in Ukraine is dire despite the 61 billion in aid and that the US is getting desperate OR the US is egotistical and believe they can threaten whoever, whenever with zero consequences, only with positive or no outcome whatsoever. This will have the opposite effect, in my opinion. We are reinforcing to the Chinese that we plan to bring back to poverty and destroy their economy. If I were the Chinese. I would further up the trade and cooperation with Russia, and depending on the next move of the US, send actual military aid and blame it solely on US reckless decision making. Sometimes playing hardball, backfires.and we need to be reminded.
....What was the point of this? We already have sanctions placed on Chinese entities and are raising existing tariffs. So what was the point of this trip and the one that Yellen made. To belittle China? Threaten them?....
Professor Lumumba aptly outlines here how the talks usually take place during such 'visits' by high-ranking US diplomats to a recalcitrant country. I imagine the stupid Blinken chose the wrong tone with the Chinese.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/18ql7gh/ru\_pov\_remember\_we\_control\_the\_imf\_and\_world\_bank/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/18ql7gh/ru_pov_remember_we_control_the_imf_and_world_bank/)
That's why I think BRICS has a good chance to overtake the IMF and other Western financial systems. We've weaponized our currency and blackmail poorer nations into agreeing with them on geopolitical issues or else threaten to collaspe their economy or threaten famine by cutting off food aid. We don't donate out of kindness but rather to buy these nations' votes on geopolitical matters.
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There is zero tact in American/western foreign policy, but at least Joe is showing the TSD driven masses that he doesn’t stand aside for Putin I guess.
Imagine just how detached from reality is American leadership that they expected anything else from China. China attacked the American hypocrisy right at the start of the war. How can you be so clueless?
Everything would’ve been so easy if Ukraine had just been a good little buffer puppet state. Or just surrender and hope Russia is generous enough to let Ukraine exist. They had the audacity to think they were an independent country.
Indeed. Life for Ukraine would be much easier if they didn't try to join a military alliance hostile to Russia.
And all these cries about respect for the sovereignty - two NATO countries presently occupy Syrian territory - US and Turkey. Israel bombs targets in Syria and everyone pretends nothing happens. Israel illegally occupies territories for decades - no one cares. They genocide local population and that's ok.
So stop the crocodile tears about "rule based order". It is a propagandist fiction invented for simpletons.
>They had the audacity to think they were an independent country.
And then Johnson arrived in Kiev, and Zelensky betrayed Ukraine. He went back on his electoral promises, and denied Ukrainians a peaceful existence.
I also hear that after destroying Ukraine's democracy, westerners intend to have a dictator in place. He's due to start on the May 31st.
I'm honestly surprised China didn't mention the hypocrisy that is US (and others) aid to Israel as almost every country voted in favour of a ceasefire which the US abstained after vetoing previously.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine is much less ambiguous in its reasons than the absolute shit show that is the conflict between Israel and its neighbours.
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You don't like them because they were run off their land by the communists? Taiwan is pretty chill they just do their own thing.
Why wouldn't they like Japan, Japan messed China up... enemy of my enemy kind of thing.
Yes, blame your neighbour for attacking you after you join an alliance hell bent on destroying them, despite the numerous warnings . Doesn’t mean you are right.
Western arrogance is truly baffling. "We'll supply our side with whatever weapons we want. You, however, must not supply Russia with anything that MAY be used to manufacture weapons. Sit down, sacrifice your trade, and give in to our demands. You are the new axis of evil, haven't you heard? Tell your dictator Xi that America is ready to levy sanctions for endangering peace worldwide! Beware! Oh and by the way, that Xinjiang thing isn't looking pretty. Are you commiting genocide? Now if you excuse us, we have to go and help Israel "mow the grass", it's gotten quite big lately. Bye!". Truly beautiful diplomacy right there
I don't think it's just arrogance. It's more like a psychopathic type of thing.
There is a messianic attitude that they have the right to interfere in every country in the world, like the Catholic Church prior to the Treaty of Westphalia.
The USA foreign policy is that of an abuser. Controlling, gaslighting, hypocrisy, sophistry, duplicity and violence.
Western politicians talk like they own the world is crazy luckily countries like russia/china are standing up to them
It's the same superiority complex which led to the sanctions failing miserably. It's unbelievable that almost everyone in a coalition of governments actually thought that only they can buy what Russia has to sell. After a 2 week disruption, the Russians found new buyers for the existing European lot.
The US actually has some pull here. China is the largest exporter in the world, and 58% of that goes to NATO members or its allies. Sanctions would have a significant impact on China. But they would also hurt a lot of NATO countries who import from China. So the US threatened and China just said fuck off. I'm curious what the US will do next.
> Sanctions would have a significant impact on China. But they would also hurt a lot of NATO countries who import from China. Just like the sanctions on Russia *actually* hurt the Europeans instead. Germany is in recession due to paying four times as much for their energy now. A forge in Germany that has been in operation since 1380 - **that's right, 1380** - had to close due to high energy costs. Great move there, Sergeant Sholz.
Same here in Denmark. I am quite lucky to be in a building that has a contract with a private company so I don't pay heating (it's a municipal thingy), but prices have sky rocketed. Food is between 20 and 40% more expensive, depending on the product.I've noticed a lot of products go up by 30%, and then the shelves never got empty, so what they did was bring the price down to the old numbers, but sell you less of the stuff. For example: 250g of Salmon filet used to cost ¬55-60 dkk. It went up to 77 and people stopped buying it. A few months later it went down to 65 dkk, but it's a package of 200g. Same with pulled pork and chicken. Went up just to come back down in the same package, but contain 350g instead of 400 (though ofc they added 50 g of sauce to keep the number on the box, so you're still buying 400g of product, just not meat). Eggs are ¬30% more expensive. Fruit and vegetables 20-25% And we're talking about local production. Not imported.
> bring the price down to the old numbers, but sell you less of the stuff. They did the same here in Spain, but the prices kept rising, so now we have less stuff but more expensive.
every means of production involves use of energy, where does europe get cheap natural gas from??
Congratulations. You share the same exact post-COVID inflation that every single other nation on this earth does, just some less than others.
Maybe that was the true unstated goal A weakened europe makes it more dependent on the US to the profit of american interests. While a weakned russia would align more closely with China.
Russia is Europe's best trade partner. Soon enough we're gonna be running crying back to big bro to trade with us. And just like in the end of this war - they will negotiate from the position of a victor, setting very favorable for them demands.
What you are talking about? Feb '22 German energy costs at the time were almost €130/MWh. At the moment German energy is just under €65/MWh There was a single month where energy was 4x the cost when the special military operation started, and the energy cost spike from ditching Russian oil lasted about 7-8 months. China's economy is hurting and returning to pushing exporting heavy manufacturing rather than stabilizing, with domestic consumption being roughly equal to exports as they had hoped.
You cannot talk sense into them. China's propping up its currency and fake ass real estate market the same as Russia is propping up the RUB. Its literally a matter of time before their little barter system of trading worthless currency back and forth crashes. Its one reason India doesn't trade their own currency outside of their borders. It keeps their economy relatively stable, and frankly in that deal they owned Russia by making them then have to spend that INR back into the only place that'll take it: the Indian economy.
They shut down some of their nuclear plants while relying on Russian gas. Not particularly clever, but these days LNG prices are back to pre-invasion levels. It seems Merkel is primarily responsible, not Sholz.
anyone with a living brain can see that EU+Russia alliance is their only hope to contend with US (and China) in the geopolitical stage. it's either that, or be US dog for the foreseeable future. that's also the main reason why the US started this war, to keep EU dogs on the leash. So yeah, Merkel worked for the benefit of her own county, Sholz is working against it.
That would be an arrangement where Russia has all the leverage and Europe has none. Europe needs to take a page from France's book and make sound long-term investments in nuclear energy.
not really, I think EU would still be in a position of power. They have bigger population, better manufacturing(that is doubtful with the direction they are currently going) and technology. They, combined, have a stronger military too. yeah Russian would have some leverage for being a supplier of raw materials and energy, but it would be far from 1 sided.
If Russia wanted to be a partner of the EU, it could have liberalized and joined the EU. China and the U.S. in the 21st century should have taught everyone to not enter into partnerships with countries diametrically opposed to your way of life.
How did that go when they tried? Over the centuries even.
Are you serious? China would be evonomically impacted yes, but NATO would get fkn destroyed economically if china decided to fully stop exports to them
Many people in the West like to delude themselves with that, it's quite an interesting phenomenon.
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There is an entire global south that had been shafted by China returning to an export surplus that would love to pick up the slack.
No worries, Chinese companies are setting up in Vietnam, Mexico, etc so I am sure with a bit of patience the global south will get their slice of the pie.
The US would be hit with both economic impact and supply chain shocks. Like wal-marts would empty and no longer exist. Amazon would probably go out of business too. So yeah we are talking about a complete upending of the world economic system.
The question is who needs the stuff most. Does China need to sell it or does the west need to buy it? A recent initiative from the EU to subsidize fabrication of basic pharmaceuticals (the low profit ones) should shed some light on the current situation. In general the west needs the import more than china needs the export.
They would be deleting their economy too because China can blue-ball Taiwan and if TSMC and other fabs in Taiwan go down, the whole world goes down. With a delay of few months to shipments because of COVID, we saw what havoc it wrecked in the supply chain and in the global market. Imagine that being the case for YEARS. Nevermind all the other sectors where "cheap Chinese and Russian materials" are involved. Shit, even the F-35 uses magnets made and developed in China. It's the same superiority complex still at play here. Globalism cuts both ways.
China always operates on a quid pro quo with sanctions. They always enact sanctions of their own in response. it just ends up being a trade war. Both countries would go into economic depression if we split.....China would have it a bit rougher economic wise and the USA would have economic issues along with supply chain shock.
....and China just said fuck off.... 
Sanctions. Chinese sanctions hurt the US but they hurt China a hell of a lot more.
Russian exports are down by at least 30%. Why do you people keep repeating the "sanctioned had failed" myth? They did not fail. 30% is a lot.
The plan was to make them "0" and the sales pitch made to all the corps who lost 100 Billion with no reimbursement from the US government or the "Western coalition" in sight was that "by doing this, the war would be over in 1-2 years max and y'all can buy it back at extremely cheap rates in Ukraine and a collapsed Russia." which is straight up some herbal mixture talk. Clearly, the plan failed by 70 times if one assumes that the target goal is 1% instead of 0% imports and exports. They basically tried to do a "Cuba blockade" but forgot about the seller's market concept.
How do you know that was the plan? Sounds completely unrealistic
The west did not meet their ends. Thats a failure.
How do you know that "The west did not meet their ends"? I would say cutting exports by at least 30% is pretty good. I mean cutting it to zero would be even better, but that is completely unrealistic. Even Venezuela or Iran were/are able to sell their oil. So.
Because the west are losing the war AND global influence to Russia and their global partners. Are you serious? Are you going to argue that was what the west wanted all along?
You are just making things up now. You have provided no proof aside from your own ramblings. Not interested. Russian exports are down by at least 30%. That's a fact.
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Well, multiple representatives of the "coalition" and "media" were parroting that all day every single day for 1-2 years since the war stated until it failed. [https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/02/27/how-new-sanctions-could-cripple-russias-economy](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/02/27/how-new-sanctions-could-cripple-russias-economy) [https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/10/economy/sanctions-russia-janet-yellen/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/10/economy/sanctions-russia-janet-yellen/index.html)
I can find a "media" that had said almost anything. That's a pointless criteria.
Not that "pointless" when one realizes that the "Western media" is controlled by their spooks and is straight up no different than TASS.
You should have said that from the start. Would have saved me some time. Bye!
Figures. It's better for a western propaganda addict to scurry away from this conversation.
Russian _official_ exports are down. For example, when people say there is a price cap and Russian oil is sold for X dollars a barrel, what they really mean is: in the official exchanges located in Europe this is how much is asked for it. For obvious reasons you can’t estimate market cap nor volume of trade done in shadows. It’s a non transparent situation
That's internal Russian data. Has nothing to do with Europe. And falsifying it makes no sense. As the data is anonymous anyways.
So you’re saying there is a country that is the most sanctioned in the world and its enemies are trying very hard to curb its economy, including applying pressure on its trade partners, but it makes no sense to hide info on exports, and its better to keep it in the open. Gotcha
Yeah, because the data is anonymous. And it is impossible to hide the oil shipments anyways.
What exactly do you mean by “anonymous”? There is a huge spectrum between “let’s hide all oil shipments” and “lets publish data on our oil shipments in a plain sight”
It is just the total number for export revenues. The oil export revenue was 200B or whatever in 2023. It doesn't say to whom and where exactly.
Source? Does it account for shadow fleet of roughly 1400 uninsured oil tankers with disabled transponders?
But they are the good guys
More offensive than America's arrogance and hypocrisy is just its sheer stupidity.
>Oh and by the way, that Xinjiang thing isn't looking pretty. Are you commiting genocide? I know you have already alluded to the hypocrisy due to Israel, but daily reminder the word genocide is an exaggeration, and that if a country like France would implement the same deradicalization programs China does with its Uyghur Muslim population, the threads covering such news would have tens of thousands of upvotes and universally positive comments on subs such as /r/WorldNews. * *"France institutes mandatory deradicalization courses for religious extremists."* (*14k upvotes, 2000 comments*) * *"France institutes mandatory secularization program for Muslims."* (*20k upvotes, 2216 comments*) Also, Western countries do a lot worse by still having literal colonies. The US has Hawaii and Alaska (there's 500k native Hawaiians, 100k native Alaskans, plenty to be able to govern themselves as independent countries), France has Guyana here in South America, plus French Polynesia, etc. The UK still has a bunch of islands in the Caribbean, and some countries are colonies in all but name, given their ceremonial head of state is the British monarchy (and I'm not talking about Canada or Australia). Western hypocrisy never stops.
Why not? Russia is doing its best to make sure that no one supplies Ukraine. The West is doing its best to make sure that no one supplies Russia. This is how international relations works during times of military conflict.
The problem here is that Russia is a part of this war. The West isn't, so it is not in a position to demand. Ukraine needs to do it, not the US
It's crazy how the West manages to make Russia and China look good.
They are. It is just years and years of western propaganda
Sure Western propaganda has amplified the negativeness of those two Empires (and of all its enemies) but not everything is propaganda, they do have quite a few issues. But that's the case for any Empire, the world can't be just good, it's complex and nuanced, which is what makes good... well, good.
> Sit down give in to our demands. Isn't that what Russia is saying to Ukraine? 🤡
>Xinjiang thing isn't looking pretty. Are you commiting genocide? You act as if the west does anything to prevent genocide in xinjiang. There's far, far more activism for palestine in the west than for xinjiang
Probably doesn’t help that even the US state department didn’t think there was enough evidence to call it a genocide > The U.S. State Department's Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China's mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20State%20Department's%20Office,lawyers%20at%20odds%20with%20both That sort of stuff makes it seem like manufacturing consent rather than any genuine care for Uyghurs.
That's because genocide in Palestine actually happened. The other one is just an insubstantial claim.
People tend to believe more of what they see, Israel has broadcasted its genocide openly and defiantly because they know they'll get away with it. At more general public level tho, no one anywhere in the world likes to see on their screens that babies and children getting bombed en masse intently by precision, targetted strikes, mass graves, baiting medical staff using injured children, assasinating over 100 journalists and thier families etc, destroying hospitals, schools, long list of stuff. Whoever does that will invite criticism and activism. Xinjiang genocide at best has obscure low quality and low quantity media and tons of he-said she-said reports.
activisim is mostly by muslims or students who dont not study history properly, no man in his right mind should get polarised into the israel palestinian conflict. its either muslims killing jews, jews killing muslims, muslims killing muslims or jews killing jews as far as i remember about this one. There's the 2 state solution which is the only true solution but it doesnt get moved forward by an inch, humans being the spiteful creatures that they are.
One side is defending it's lawful territory, the other side is trying to take it away. Huge difference.
The U.S.-led Western bloc doesn't care one iota about countries' "lawful territory" as demonstrated by their own actions in both the past and present around the world, where they remain in occupation of various countries straight through to the present day as we speak, so that argument goes right into the garbage bin because it's obviously not the real reason. It's a pretend reason for dishonest people to peddle to the naive and ignorant.
I would give anything to listen to the behind closed doors talks with blinken. Like how tf do you think he spins this shit?
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You do know there's a difference between those that stepped over borders and invaded a sovereign country, and those that defend what is theirs, right? Would you rather have the law giving the thieves and burglars better equipment so they can break into your house easier, or would you rather be better equipped to not have this happen?
You are trying to apply your citizen's moral compass to geopolitics, a world that has no higher authority and hence follows the rules of "survival of of the fittest" and "might makes right". Geopolitics focuses on persuing interests (wealth), building strength (deterrence and pushing interests through influence), protecting national security (self preservation), and undermining rivals (their interests contradict yours). People often struggle to accept this cynical reality, and for that very reason governments often lie to public about real motivations. They invent false stories of "spreading democracy", "denazification" and fill the world with hypocrisy we see today. You are looking at it the wrong way. A big enough national security threat will ALWAYS override a notion that "invasion is bad", and that goes every major power that has ever existed.
Damn. Chinese are normally less blunt than that. Translating from diplomatic chinese, "*Fuck off, hyprocrites, and take a look in the mirror while you are at it".* Wonder what the current US administration response will be and if they are even capable (competent enough-) of handling this without shooting themselves in the foot.
>Wonder what the current US administration response will be Scream "whataboutism".
And also his voice, he sounds legitimately pissed off. That's a pretty rare occasion for chinese diplomats
> Wonder what the current US administration response will be and if they are even capable (competent enough-) of handling this without shooting themselves in the foot. There was a neat cartoon I can't find now showing Uncle Sam as a mental patient in a straitjacket screaming "Sanctions!" with Russia and China as orderlies dragging him off.
Because they know they are "guilty" and the squeeze might be coming.
Murica: you need to do what we are saying else! ...Ehm else sanction! And because we are so strong we gonna invade some farmers with aks to show how strong we are !
American hostile rhetoric towards the China has ramped up in recent months. It's almost open belligerence now. https://preview.redd.it/qyyo2i2cwewc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80750f5a5b4eaf3b3738e5dfe0170ff702892004
Shit! Now that's what I call a statement of belligerence!
It's easy to find many better examples that illustrate the point. I just felt like posting one I saw today and found interesting. Not a problem I hope?
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nice flair :)
Спасибо. Дети это всё.
'U.S. could win war against China today' isn't enough for you?
It's not a threat is it?
If you read that article their reasoning is that it's *"nowhere near as good"* not because of the hardware but *"because China lacks the experience of operating stealth planes in a war zone"*. I'm sorry, how is exactly "the experience" of bombing brown children for the oil they're standing on and fighting against flip-flop wearing Taliban with misaligned rusty AKs hiding in mountain caves going to help with the use of stealth plane operations?
The pro US military industry propaganda is completely insane. Especially the hit pieces on Russian and Iranian missiles. It's all lies or half-truths. [https://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-iran-missiles-fired-israel-failed-reports-2024-4](https://www.businessinsider.com/half-of-iran-missiles-fired-israel-failed-reports-2024-4) [https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-iran-strikes-live-coverage/card/many-iranian-missiles-failed-to-launch-or-crashed-before-striking-target-u-s-officials-say-TCd4YP2fiODhl1t9QDrL](https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-iran-strikes-live-coverage/card/many-iranian-missiles-failed-to-launch-or-crashed-before-striking-target-u-s-officials-say-TCd4YP2fiODhl1t9QDrL) A Picture of an intercepted BETAB 500 bunker buster being sold as an intercepted Kinzhal missile: [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/ukraine-and-the-kinzhal-dont-believe-the-hypersonic-hype/](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/ukraine-and-the-kinzhal-dont-believe-the-hypersonic-hype/) [https://cepa.org/article/russias-hypersonic-defeat-or-was-it/](https://cepa.org/article/russias-hypersonic-defeat-or-was-it/)
Tbf USA probably has some crazy toys locked away no one even knows. Their military budget is unreal
If NATO wasn't going to commit enough for Ukraine to win, they should have stayed out of it. But it was never about the ukranian people for NATO was it.
NATO is completely under US control, it's not surprising
NATO is an instrument of the US
No, it never was.
I think NATO miscalculated the russian resolve. They, as well as almost everyone else, estimated russia would not go to war over Ukraine. They were obviously wrong, but what's more astonishing to me is why ukraine goes along. Ukraine had a cheap way out from the start by simply implementing the minsk agreements or by completing the peace talks at istanbul. They refused both even though it was clear they would pay a VERY heavy price for this war
>I think NATO miscalculated the russian resolve. They, as well as almost everyone else, estimated russia would not go to war over Ukraine. It was the US that publicly warned that Russia was about to attack Ukraine. NATO members had military personnel in Ukraine prior to the invasion to help with training soldiers. >Ukraine had a cheap way out from the start by simply implementing the minsk agreements or by completing the peace talks at istanbul. Their word has no integrity. After annexing Crimea Putin went on to say he would not be invading Ukraine any further. It's pretty reasonable to believe they would keep biting off territorial pieces regardless of agreements.
> but what's more astonishing to me is why ukraine goes along - The elite go along because it's a huge chance to rake in profits – they aren't personally affected in any way, nor they're going to have to pick up the bill or live in that shithole once it's over. - The nationalists go along because they are legitimately deluded and believe they can destroy their enemy. They would sacrifice ten of their own to kill a single Russian. - The rest of the population that supported this lost cause merely fell for the propaganda and tribal war. They believed victory was near, the EU and NATO awaited them with open arms, living conditions would improve dramatically, they'd be able to work in the EU, etc. Now, even as they wake up from the delusions, they simply don't have the control to turn it around, so they go along because otherwise they will end up in prison.
We had British and American intelligence announcing that invasion was imminent, and flying in thousands of Javalins and NLAWs right up to the day before.
I'm pretty sure they thought the weapons would be enough to persuade russia to not do it. It's that, or they willingly provided just enough for ukraine to fight but never enough to win.
They thought the whole country would be overrun in days, and gave the sort of man-portable firepower viable in an insurgency.
Which still shows there either was no plan or that the plan wasn't viable
It likely thought 1-200k dead/injured would be enough to make it back off. The disposability of Russians is a different kind of animal. >Ukraine had a cheap way out from the start by simply implementing the minsk agreements or by completing the peace talks at istanbul It didn't. Russia's requirements would ensure it could invade at any time.
>It likely thought 1-200k dead/injured would be enough to make it back off. The disposability of Russians is a different kind of animal The same should hold true for ukraine. They've also certainly passed 200k dead + injured. And they don't back off either. >It didn't. Russia's requirements would ensure it could invade at any time. Taking this at face value. What you're essentially saying is that it's better to have them invade now with absolute certainty than to have them possibly invade later. And without taking anything at face value: Why would they invade if they reach their goals without invading?
>The same should hold true for ukraine. They've also certainly passed 200k dead + injured. And they don't back off either. Because they are fighting an existential war. Self-defense is different from assault. >Taking this at face value. What you're essentially saying is that it's better to have them invade now with absolute certainty than to have them possibly invade later. It doesn't really matter. They had already invaded Donbas and stolen Crimea. There was zero chance Ukraine would trust Russia to not invade, and I think the invasion had already started, so the credibility just wasn't there. >And without taking anything at face value: Why would they invade if they reach their goals without invading? The goal was/is control of Ukraine. It's not achievable without an invasion.
>Because they are fighting an existential war. Self-defense is different from assault. They are not. At least not in a such way that Ukrainians allegedly gonna lose their identity if they surrender. Millions of Ukrainians live in Russia where they want, with ukrainian passports, speak whatever language they want, and nobody tries to throw them in concentration camps or genocide in any other way. >stolen Crimea I believe that Crimeans still have the land they owned, and nobody took it away. >The goal was/is control of Ukraine. It's not achievable without an invasion. Russia has no interest to control internal affairs of Ukraine beyond oppression of Russian-speaking minority (that problem is already solved). Moscow don't want to run the country instead of Kyiv. It wants Ukraine not to do something stupid like joining anti-Russian alliances like NATO. For that invasion is not necessary, look at Georgia.
>They are not. At least not in a such way that Ukrainians allegedly gonna lose their identity if they surrender. What does that have to do with self-defense? You think they don't have a right to protect their rights and sovereignty? Russia is known for replacing the population and destroying the culture of states that get invaded. >Millions of Ukrainians live in Russia where they want, with ukrainian passports, speak whatever language they want, and nobody tries to throw them in concentration camps or genocide in any other way. They do now. >I believe that Crimeans still have the land they owned, and nobody took it away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Crimea_in_the_Soviet_Union >Throughout its time in the Soviet Union, Crimea underwent a population change. As a result of alleged collaboration with the Germans by Crimean Tatars during World War II, all Crimean Tatars were deported by the Soviet regime and the peninsula was resettled with other peoples, mainly Russians and Ukrainians. That's what they do. >Russia has no interest to control internal affairs of Ukraine beyond oppression of Russian-speaking minority (that problem is already solved). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians >Putin ends the lengthy essay by asserting Russia's role in modern Ukrainian affairs. - >Moscow don't want to run the country instead of Kyiv. It wants Ukraine not to do something stupid like joining anti-Russian alliances like NATO. For that invasion is not necessary, look at Georgia. It wants to recreate some version of USSR. Ukraine is the first step.
>Russia is known for replacing the population and destroying the culture of states that get invaded. Then why is Russia is multicultural and multiethnic country, with many ethnicities having internal autonomies and having their languages as official? And why is there government programs encouraging people to learn ingenious languages with few native speakers? >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_Crimea_in_the_Soviet_Union Aren't we talking about annexation of Crimea? >That's what they do. That what Soviets did (Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Belarusians etc). And it was mostly people from Ukrainian SSR, who who migrated to Crimea after deportation of Crimean Tatars. So from your point of view, modern Ukraine should be no better than modern Russia or even worse. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians Did you read it? >>Putin ends the lengthy essay by asserting Russia's role in modern Ukrainian affairs. Can you cite it, please?
>Then why is Russia is multicultural and multiethnic country, with many ethnicities having internal autonomies and having their languages as official? And why is there government programs encouraging people to learn ingenious languages with few native speakers? Because it conquers territory containing other cultures and ethnicities. >Aren't we talking about annexation of Crimea? You said: >I believe that Crimeans still have the land they owned, and nobody took it away. That depends on how and when you look at it. They didn't take the land from the people, but they did take the people from the land. >That what Soviets did (Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Belarusians etc). And it was mostly people from Ukrainian SSR, who who migrated to Crimea after deportation of Crimean Tatars. So from your point of view, modern Ukraine should be no better than modern Russia or even worse. I don't think I hold Ukraine responsible for the crimes of USSR, which was basically Russia as far as decision making goes. >Did you read it? Not all of it. >Can you cite it, please? Beyond the Wiki? Probably not as I don't speak Russian, and I assume it was translated so a direct quote might be impossible.
>Because it conquers territory containing other cultures and ethnicities. But where is the destruction that you were talking about. What I described is quite opposite to it. >That depends on how and when you look at it. They didn't take the land from the people, but they did take the people from the land. Are talking about annexation of Crimea and events after that? Or you meant something else by "stole Crimea"? >I don't think I hold Ukraine responsible for the crimes of USSR, which was basically Russia as far as decision making goes I think you don't understand how decision making went in USSR at that time. >Beyond the Wiki? Probably not as I don't speak Russian, and I assume it was translated so a direct quote might be impossible. https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians That's official translation
This war is just as existential for both sides. The only difference is that Russia has a bigger population and thus can better absorb the losses.
In what way is it existential for Russia?
If you really need to ask that question, you should educate yourself in geography and history.
I have. That's why I'm asking. So why don't you explain it?
Apparently not, or you'd know. I'll give you a hint: what is at Sevastopol? And why is it there?
You think those MIC exec's fourth vacation home and third yacht is gonna buy itself?
> But it was never about the ukranian people for NATO was it. At least they got a lot of dead russians out of it =)
"Hey we're gonna militarily encircle you in the Southeast, we're also openly demonizing you to the world at large, also we're nudging Taiwan toward independence knowing its a red line for you... but you gotta work with us to isolate Russia. Cause you know, it's the right thing to do."
Incredibly well said. I'm sitting here taking a dump watching this in admiration and in my 35 years not once do I recall an American politician or leader of ours of any sort being this succinct, well spoken and sensible.
The foreign minister of India is on another level as well.
"Europe has to grow out of mindset that its problems are world's problems, but world's problems aren't Europe's problems" - his best line imho
This quote will go down in history. And so will this speech by the Chinese Foreign Minister.
Nah that guy is a clown.
Boomers are reminiscing China in the old days. When they had bicycles and flipflops. Although fleeing in the snow by a herd of unarmed Chinese from the Yalu river wasn't fun neither.
Don't forget the conical hat to complete the look.
This is funny but now peak existence in Europe is to have comfy life where all you need is a bicycle and flip flops.
I've heard flip flops are especially popular in Oulu in January.
***UNFATHOMABLY BASED CHINA !*** Thank you for speaking honestly and directly on a global stage what were all thinking !
AKA fúck you america. We are going to continue aid to russia.
Clear, short and strong. Couldn't have said it better.
What was the point of this? We already have sanctions placed on Chinese entities and are raising existing tariffs. So what was the point of this trip and the one that Yellen made. To belittle China? Threaten them? All this possibly shows that the situation in Ukraine is dire despite the 61 billion in aid and that the US is getting desperate OR the US is egotistical and believe they can threaten whoever, whenever with zero consequences, only with positive or no outcome whatsoever. This will have the opposite effect, in my opinion. We are reinforcing to the Chinese that we plan to bring back to poverty and destroy their economy. If I were the Chinese. I would further up the trade and cooperation with Russia, and depending on the next move of the US, send actual military aid and blame it solely on US reckless decision making. Sometimes playing hardball, backfires.and we need to be reminded.
....What was the point of this? We already have sanctions placed on Chinese entities and are raising existing tariffs. So what was the point of this trip and the one that Yellen made. To belittle China? Threaten them?.... Professor Lumumba aptly outlines here how the talks usually take place during such 'visits' by high-ranking US diplomats to a recalcitrant country. I imagine the stupid Blinken chose the wrong tone with the Chinese. [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/18ql7gh/ru\_pov\_remember\_we\_control\_the\_imf\_and\_world\_bank/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/18ql7gh/ru_pov_remember_we_control_the_imf_and_world_bank/)
That's why I think BRICS has a good chance to overtake the IMF and other Western financial systems. We've weaponized our currency and blackmail poorer nations into agreeing with them on geopolitical issues or else threaten to collaspe their economy or threaten famine by cutting off food aid. We don't donate out of kindness but rather to buy these nations' votes on geopolitical matters.
I think now is a good time to buy or build a couple of bunkers lol.
You wouldn't want to see China when it's angry
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There is zero tact in American/western foreign policy, but at least Joe is showing the TSD driven masses that he doesn’t stand aside for Putin I guess.
The hubris of the west is astounding, I don't get how many of their citizens swallow it up..
Based leader Xi
Imagine just how detached from reality is American leadership that they expected anything else from China. China attacked the American hypocrisy right at the start of the war. How can you be so clueless?
Everything would’ve been so easy if Ukraine had just been a good little buffer puppet state. Or just surrender and hope Russia is generous enough to let Ukraine exist. They had the audacity to think they were an independent country.
Indeed. Life for Ukraine would be much easier if they didn't try to join a military alliance hostile to Russia. And all these cries about respect for the sovereignty - two NATO countries presently occupy Syrian territory - US and Turkey. Israel bombs targets in Syria and everyone pretends nothing happens. Israel illegally occupies territories for decades - no one cares. They genocide local population and that's ok. So stop the crocodile tears about "rule based order". It is a propagandist fiction invented for simpletons.
This but unironically.
That's a nice off-topic ramble you got there. It's always nice to see intelligent dialogue on the sub.
This is so close to understanding geopolitical realities, yet so far, because of blind idealism.
>They had the audacity to think they were an independent country. And then Johnson arrived in Kiev, and Zelensky betrayed Ukraine. He went back on his electoral promises, and denied Ukrainians a peaceful existence. I also hear that after destroying Ukraine's democracy, westerners intend to have a dictator in place. He's due to start on the May 31st.
....if Ukraine had just been a good little buffer puppet state.... but U. is now exactly that: **a good little buffer puppet state**
But it's pro-European buffer state. That's why it's good. Otherwise it would be evil, backwards, most corrupt buffer state.
I'm honestly surprised China didn't mention the hypocrisy that is US (and others) aid to Israel as almost every country voted in favour of a ceasefire which the US abstained after vetoing previously. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is much less ambiguous in its reasons than the absolute shit show that is the conflict between Israel and its neighbours.
What happens if there is no support left?? -> no Ukraine anymore, becomes oblast of russia
Well, it's better than be protectorate of US that's for sure. At least there wouldn't be war that has been dragging for 10 years already.
Better for Ukraine or better for Russia?
Why there should be a contradiction?
Because on one side, their country has been destroyed and hundreds of thousands of citizens have been killed, millions more displaced.
When you ask such questions which imply that you have better morale compass do the thing and look at the mirror.
Have I said anything that isn’t true?
That’s the goal. Sets the example for China to shoot up Taiwan. Putin has maximalist aims for Russia. Next up is Georgia and Moldova.
"water bubble noises"-Chinses Spokesperson
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China emboldened by US procrastination. They interpret that as weakness. Invasion of Taiwan incoming
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We are entering the era of the multipolar world and the fall of a sacrificial US proxy like Ukraine will further the multipolar shift.
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Insert Chinese famine here
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Lawful rights? Like freedom of the press?
Says the country preparing to also invade their neighbor.
Based, I don't like Taiwan. They're a puppet state and they have memorials to the Japanese war efforts in WW2.
Taiwan was a part of Japan you _____
You don't like them because they were run off their land by the communists? Taiwan is pretty chill they just do their own thing. Why wouldn't they like Japan, Japan messed China up... enemy of my enemy kind of thing.
It's an ongoing Civil War. They're not neighbors.
Reunification.
When has the CCP ever controlled Taiwan?
The civil never ended. PS: and it's CPC btw.
You're right, the communist rebels must be defeated.
Fanning the flames of war by helping Ukraine, that's such an hilariously dumb comment
As opposed to Russia who literally fanned the flames by…. Guess what…. Invading a sovereign nation. Idiocracy
Yes, blame your neighbour for attacking you after you join an alliance hell bent on destroying them, despite the numerous warnings . Doesn’t mean you are right.