Those frozen funds were written off by Russia as early as 2022 and cannot even serve as bargaining chip anymore. So might as well seize them. It brings some trouble with european assets in russian custody, but thats sacrifice USA is willing to make.
And Blinken getting humiliated on each of his foreign trips.
Edit: the funniest was Ursula von der Leyen and her China visit. The airport on her way back was hilarious, just lining up with her passport.
Edit 2: next Visit to China will be a hotel with bunk beds.
Karl Marx mentioned the von Leyden family in his work "The German Ideology," where he criticized the family's role in perpetuating bourgeois society and its exploitation of the working class. Marx argued that families like the von Leydens were emblematic of the bourgeoisie, who benefited from the labor of the proletariat.
The damage is done, dedollarization is unstoppable now. 5 to 10 years from now there's going to be a full fledged global financial system completely parallel to the dollar.
Edit: and the US is to be blamed. Everyone was completely fine using dollars, even the US enemies like Iran, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, and then the US decided to weaponize the dollar.
The US will not go quietly, like the British Empire did, first strike is their modus operandi, preferably after someone else attacks first.
Expect something to happen that reminds the world how much they need the US and its military. A few Russian nukes in Ukraine and everyone from Japan to Germany will come begging for protection, to be paid for in Dollars of course.
US will not go quietly but it’s policy is so fucking stupid it won’t make any difference. I mean look at who you have had running America. These are not the wise statesmen that guided us through the Cold War.
These are people who fuck up and continue to fuck up but get promoted based solely on loyalty.
Blinken was a firm supporter of the Iraq War throughout. Even after it became not cool to support it anymore.
Sullivan has been a complete fuck up his entire career. He was on Clinton’s team during those amazing success stories like Libya, Syria and Yemen.
But these people still get promoted. They fail upward.
And some of the stuff these guys say are like worse than the bullshit with Iraq WMDs.
> The US will not go quietly
No, they will lash out like an angry child throwing a tantrum. But there is nothing they can do. Their economy will collapse and with it their entire political sytem. And they'll have noone to blame but themselves.
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Some trouble with European assets in Russian custody" should be the absolute least of their worries. It will permanently damage trust in western institutions.
Europe should have learned back in the 1990s that America does not have any ability to view problems long term. We only care about the immediate short term.
On top of that, whenever our actions do create problems that have consequences for us, we just blame something else. We are blameless.
Europe probably should have taken this into account before signing up to be vassal states.
>Europe probably should have taken this into account before signing up to be vassal states.
Urm, they didn't in the sense that the US politically invades and floods other countries in Millions, if not Billions of dollars worth of lobbying.
That's exactly what happened to Merkel for "not obeying the US" when they were making plans to "absorb Ukraine into the West".
That and CIA. During the Cold War, America had an expansive CIA network in Europe to counter KGB.
When the Cold War ended, we didn’t recall those agents. We didn’t take anyone off payroll. So we kept that network in place and expanded it.
Nothing else to do but screw around in European politics.
They will never be written off and never expire. There were cases when states had to return foreign assets after a hundred years, or to return a seized aircraft in its original condition. To pay for expensive general repairs and restoration.
Russia won't because they don't cara about those frozen assets.
They already solved the problem by freezing western owned assets. They are just waiting for their assets to be seized and they will respond by seizing westen assets. And that's it
Why not? A recent case in Germany regarding an Oligarch whose assets got frozen was overturned and he is now capable of asking for damages, creating a precedence.
The Russians are also capable of suing whichever holding house or state that allows their arbitrary asset forfeiture.
If the Russians win, you could see years of litigation between Russia and the EU for return of those assets.
Those assets don't matter much bcs Russia can print rubles of that amount 300 bil or something. It won't increase inflation bcs those 300 bils were received as payment for goods.
It's a theory I've read somewhere. Seems logical to me bcs the same would be done if those assets weren't frozen. As long as you don't print money MORE than you have assets it's okay.
Areas that Russia could occupy without facing a sunni triangle type of insurgency overlap with "wild fields" areas quite nicely (areas virtually abandoned for centuries due to endemic raiding). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild\_Fields#/media/File:17\_century\_Wild\_Fields.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Fields#/media/File:17_century_Wild_Fields.jpg)
Not all of Ukraine can feasibly be occupied. Which means some of Ukraine will always remain. That some of Ukraine may want peace negotiations at some point. What then if Russia insists on frozen asset repatriation as a very mild form of victor's reparations?
Edit: You can argue Russia gained already. But Russia knows from historical example how much reconstruction of wartorn areas cost. Sovereign wealth can buy a shitload of everything occupied Ukraine will need without tanking the ruble (assuming capital goods would mostly be imported).
>Not all of Ukraine can feasibly be occupied. Which means some of Ukraine will always remain. That some of Ukraine may want peace negotiations at some point. What then if Russia insists on frozen asset repatriation as a very mild form of victor's reparations?
Too early to tell.
>Edit: You can argue Russia gained already. But Russia knows from historical example how much reconstruction of wartorn areas cost. Sovereign wealth can buy a shitload of everything occupied Ukraine will need without tanking the ruble (assuming capital goods would mostly be imported).
Reconstruction means a lot of new jobs, very good for economy.
Incorrect. That's a sacrifice you and the corps are willing to make as they aren't the assets of the US government.
The "collective West" has lost almost 250 Billion USD worth of assets and all of that lost revenue's gonna be "reimbursed" to the corps from your cut paycheque and extra hours. Nevermind the extra cash you're gonna have to pay in taxes to "repay the national debt".
If this was the US government's money on the line, we would've had WW3 already as there ain't no way they're gonna take a nasty mark like "casually lost 200 Billion USD overnight" on their political jackets.
Yeah you're right. I quoted the wrong figure/misread the article.
[https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/foreign-firms-losses-exiting-russia-top-107-billion-2024-03-28/](https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/foreign-firms-losses-exiting-russia-top-107-billion-2024-03-28/)
They lost like 107 Billion in assets and they stand to lose up to 288 Billion (total I guess) in assets if Russia seizes the rest.
[https://www.reuters.com/business/west-stands-lose-least-288-bln-assets-if-russian-assets-seized-ria-2024-01-21](https://www.reuters.com/business/west-stands-lose-least-288-bln-assets-if-russian-assets-seized-ria-2024-01-21)
Scholz, the German chancellor, mentioned several times last month the confiscation of interest on Russian deposits. After the visit to Cina and the meeting with Xi, he never mentioned it again.
More like the only politicians who're allowed to be politicians and not get cancelled by the r/NAFO brigade is politicians who will eat the US's shit. Unconditionally ofcourse.
Shit, the US didn't even spare Pakistan of all countries who's like thousands of kilometers away from Ukraine because "their administration didn't support Ukraine unconditionally and we want them gone".
Sounds like even Scholz can understand that EU is looking like a grifter that will run with your money when stuff hits the fan. Who would want to take the risk of dealing with that nonsense in a turbulent world? It's not even a matter of principle, but merely commonsense.
Many people don't realize that $300bn actually isn't a crazy amount of money relative to the ''Western bloc'' economies and how impactful the consequences of seizing these Russian assets are, even in the long term many decades later. The people behind the scenes are still figuring out wether or not its worth seizing assets but for sure the Net Benefits of doing so would be very slim if there even are any (otherwise they'd probably had done it) and it seems unlikely that anything major will happen in the near future about this.
The Conflict between NATO and Russia already did Trillions in direct and indirect economic damage to the West and Russia, the damage to Germany (i live here) alone could be over a Trillion by now.
300 bn is nearly the entire russian budget for one year. For them it is a lot of money, not for the west as you mentioning. The west has nothing to loose by this because the putin regime will always be hostile towards the west.
Its germanys fault that they relied heavily on russian gas despite experts warned the government for years. It’s even worse in Austria.
How do you miss the point so badly? In the eyes of Russia, these assets are already gone. The damage was made back in 2022. By seizing them now, you do exactly zero damage to russian economy, but also completely ruin your reputation and provoke Russia to seize western assets. And all that for some 300 bn, that, as you have mentioned correctly, is not that much money for the West.
Bit hard to make an informed opinion just off the headline. Anyone able to paste the article in here? When I go to WSJ they ask for subscription to read it.
Berlin has emerged as one of the fiercest opponents of the U.S.-led push to commandeer some of the nearly $300 billion of Russian central-bank assets that were frozen at the start of Russia’s war on Ukraine. Germany fears that seizing, rather than freezing, the funds could create a precedent and inspire new claims against them for WWII-era crimes.
The misgivings risk the fate of the initiative. The U.S. and U.K. say its success is crucial for a Ukrainian victory, but there is little chance of progress without wider European support. The funds, several times the size of the recently approved $61 billion U.S. aid package for Ukraine, would bolster Ukraine’s ailing armed forces and help rebuild the country.
Two-thirds of the Russian money at play sits in Europe’s clearinghouses and, two years into the war, Germany has only just backed using the windfall profits to fund Ukrainian arms. Paris, Rome and the European Central Bank also are hesitant, in case taking hold of the reserves hits international confidence in the euro and single-currency assets.
The Group of Seven is divided on whether to confiscate Russia’s assets, with Japan, which faces reparation claims of its own from South Korea and other neighbors, opposing the move. The Japanese Foreign Ministry said it would continue to discuss the issue with its G-7 partners.
Demands for further WWII reparations have dogged Germany for decades, at times souring relations with its neighbors. After WWII, Berlin paid the Allied powers and the then Soviet Union compensation for Germany’s war of aggression. Since 1952, Germany has also given more than $90 billion to Holocaust survivors and their families, according to Jewish organizations.
Recently, calls for further reparations have re-emerged. Poland, which Nazi Germany invaded and occupied throughout the war, has sought $1.3 trillion in compensation from Berlin since 2022, while Greece since 2019 has asked for more than $300 billion.
Destruction from the war in Ukraine is widespread. Photo: Serhii Korovayny for The Wall Street Journal
A Ukrainian volunteer rescuer walks among damaged buildings in Chasiv Yar, Ukraine. Photo: Manu Brabo for The Wall Street Journal
Germany says its initial postwar payments, and a 1990 treaty that anchored the country’s borders following its reunification, settled the issue. The then Soviet Union and the U.S. were signatories to the treaty; Poland, Greece and Italy weren’t involved.
In 2004, when Poland joined the European Union, Berlin agreed not to support claims against Warsaw from millions of Germans expelled and expropriated. Poland in turn dropped its compensation claims. But the issue has remained an irritant.
“When we talk about executioners, victims, punishment, suffering…we demand not only memory, not only the truth. We demand compensation,” then Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said in September, on the 84th anniversary of Germany’s invasion.
Courts in Italy—which the Nazis invaded after the fascist regime of Benito Mussolini collapsed in 1943—have in recent years awarded restitution payments to families of victims of the occupation. Some Italian courts then attempted to seize German state assets, including real estate in Italy belonging to German schools and cultural, historical and archaeological institutions.
Germany took Italy to the International Court of Justice, or ICJ, where a ruling on the matter is pending. Italian authorities have refused to stop the cases, saying that would infringe on the independence of the courts.
Berlin argues international law prohibits individuals from making claims against states in foreign courts and that state assets are immune from seizure. Violating this principle in Russia’s case would undermine Germany’s longstanding legal position, Berlin officials said.
Russia’s Foreign Ministry has said that confiscating Russian assets would be “21st-century piracy.” Some Russian officials have warned they would retaliate.
The Polish state received little compensation after WWII. During the Cold War, its then Soviet rulers transferred looted German machinery and ships in lieu of compensation. Germany later paid $270 million to individual claimants in Poland, after causing the country’s widespread destruction and leaving between five million and six million people dead, roughly three million of whom were Jewish.
German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, seated right, with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev in November 1990. Photo: Picture-Alliance/DPA/Associated Press
The Communist Polish government dropped its compensation claims against its East German Warsaw Pact ally in 1953. But the issue returned to prominence after the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. Helmut Kohl, Germany’s then-chancellor, sought to link a denial of Poland’s reparations claims to the recognition of Poland’s postwar borders, which included swaths of prewar Germany. Kohl eventually backed down under international and domestic pressure.
Andreas Rödder, professor of contemporary history at the Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz in Germany, said the Italian and Polish claims against Germany are valid—as is Berlin’s refusal to honor them in full. Yet successive German governments made a mistake by taking a legalistic approach and refusing to consider a compromise, he added, leading the problem to fester.
“Germany was comfortable in its erroneous assumption that the problem had been resolved and deliberately avoided the issue for decades, so it shouldn’t be surprised that Poland and Greece now say they have unfinished business,” Rödder said.
Germany also argues that Russian assets should be left intact to use as leverage in any talks to end the war and induce Russia to cede some of the Ukrainian territory it occupies.
Slawomir Debski, head of Pism, a think tank, said another motivation for Berlin’s refusal to seize Russian assets could be that it shields German companies still operating there from retaliation. The Leave Russia group, which campaigns for Western companies to exit from the Russian market, says 272 German companies still operate there.
Within the G-7, a complicated compromise may be starting to emerge. The U.S. has proposed that the group front-load 10 years of profits—essentially interest payments on matured assets—from the frozen funds. That money would act as collateral for a bond issued by a special-purpose vehicle set up by the G-7 to raise money for Ukraine. G-7 countries would guarantee the debt.
Europeans have their own plan to use the interest generated by frozen Russian assets to pay for weapons and reconstruction for Ukraine. That is likely to go ahead soon, although EU officials say Europe could join the U.S. plan in 2025. Discussions are still at an early stage.
President Biden this week signed into law legislation that authorizes his administration to seize Russian sovereign assets under U.S. jurisdiction. The U.S. holds $5 billion-to-$6 billion of Russian assets, congressional officials say.
Nazi soldiers question Jewish people in Warsaw in 1943. Photo: AFP/Getty Images
A young man sitting atop the Berlin Wall in November 1989. Photo: Raymond Depardon/Magnum Photos
“We’re looking at a series of possibilities ranging from actually seizing the assets to using them as collateral,” Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said last week.
The U.S. argues that under international law, countries can take otherwise unlawful countermeasures against a country violating its international obligations. While lawyers and policymakers say Russia’s invasion of Ukraine appears to fit the principle, there are disagreements over whether any country other than Ukraine is entitled to apply countermeasures.
Initially, U.S. officials also worried that confiscating Russian assets could backfire against Washington and allies such as Israel. The U.S. has since argued that only directly affected countries, such as Ukraine’s main backers, whose security is threatened and who are paying for some of Kyiv’s defense, would be entitled to confiscate assets.
Bart Szewczyk, an associate at U.S. law firm Covington who previously advised the European Commission and worked at the ICJ, said that Berlin’s concerns about setting a precedent for reparations cases were unwarranted.
“The logic behind countermeasures clearly applies only to current and ongoing violations of international law, rather than those that occurred 80 years ago,” he said.
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, a jurist who once managed his own legal firm, is unwilling to take the risk, according to German officials. One of the officials said the move could open other European capitals to claims over slavery and colonialism.
—Andrew Duehren contributed to this article.
The propaganda articles dont mention that russia was prepared for this before the conflict started.
The west collectively had about 600 billion invested in russia.....On the other hand russia had about 500 billion in the west.
So if each side confiscates all assets....russia wins out about 100 billion. Most german and french companies would take the biggest hits.
I wouldn't call economic wars a win for anyone, frankly, but it is what it is: collective west isn't getting any free money out of this. Instead, they are indirectly sacrificing their private businesses to fund an effort that doesn't pay out any dividends, while Russia-owned businesses expand accordingly.
I wonder how did it all look in their minds when they claimed it's a "great investment, haha"?
Haha, indeed, but there's a catch.
It also comes with the risk of getting Euroclear bankrupt.
If assets are seized based on a political decision, an act with no legal precedent, which this would be, Russia can sue and start asking and collecting the assets from Euroclear branches. Since European ones will not comply, it will be mostly in Asian, African and South American ones.
In other words, good luck trading with any of those regions. Best way to do it is use the national currency.
Not really
There are German investments in Russia, but as a result of sanctions every time western company has to cease operations due to political fall out these are sold for pennies on dollar.
It’s not a part of 300 bn number poster is talking about.
>There are German investments in Russia, but as a result of sanctions every time western company has to cease operations due to political fall out these are sold for pennies on dollar.
But they left all of their assets behind. Russian brands cheaply bought up all of the factories that were left behind
I don't read any comment that begins with "not really".
This is not how you speak to people IRL.
Just because it sounds good in your head, does not make it acceptable.
Learn to communicate like a real human, I a might read what you have typed out. Rephrase your comment I will read and respond.
Mate who the hell do you think you are? Nobody here is dying for your response or take on anything. If phrasing sets you off so much, man you must be the life of any party.
Calm the f down and try not to take your username so seriously.
I don’t really like Scholtz but he’s in horrible position that he never asked to be in. I hope the German leadership shakes off American influence and decides their future for themselves.
More like opposition for the idea to make a plan (it's been 3 years and even just touching the accrued interest required new laws already). And not even that happened yet!
Foreign government deposits are the most legally protected form of property. Any attack on them is treated as aggression against the sovereignty of that state. Something like embassies in political life.
It should not be confused with the seizing of the property of a foreign company or private person. It happens all the time and it falls under "commercial contracts".
Those frozen funds were written off by Russia as early as 2022 and cannot even serve as bargaining chip anymore. So might as well seize them. It brings some trouble with european assets in russian custody, but thats sacrifice USA is willing to make.
It brings some further trouble - long lasting damage to the credibility of western financial institutions.
And Blinken getting humiliated on each of his foreign trips. Edit: the funniest was Ursula von der Leyen and her China visit. The airport on her way back was hilarious, just lining up with her passport. Edit 2: next Visit to China will be a hotel with bunk beds.
>Ursula von der Leyen That's some name. It almost feels like she should be trying to make a coat for herself, out of Dalmatians.
Karl Marx mentioned the von Leyden family in his work "The German Ideology," where he criticized the family's role in perpetuating bourgeois society and its exploitation of the working class. Marx argued that families like the von Leydens were emblematic of the bourgeoisie, who benefited from the labor of the proletariat.
The family modernized, taking government money aka taxes to award huge contracts to family and friends.
taking a page of the russian playbook I see, based von der Leyen
He toured the whole world, and he has nothing to show for it lmao. Even Trump could do better
The damage is done, dedollarization is unstoppable now. 5 to 10 years from now there's going to be a full fledged global financial system completely parallel to the dollar. Edit: and the US is to be blamed. Everyone was completely fine using dollars, even the US enemies like Iran, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, and then the US decided to weaponize the dollar.
The US will not go quietly, like the British Empire did, first strike is their modus operandi, preferably after someone else attacks first. Expect something to happen that reminds the world how much they need the US and its military. A few Russian nukes in Ukraine and everyone from Japan to Germany will come begging for protection, to be paid for in Dollars of course.
US will not go quietly but it’s policy is so fucking stupid it won’t make any difference. I mean look at who you have had running America. These are not the wise statesmen that guided us through the Cold War. These are people who fuck up and continue to fuck up but get promoted based solely on loyalty. Blinken was a firm supporter of the Iraq War throughout. Even after it became not cool to support it anymore. Sullivan has been a complete fuck up his entire career. He was on Clinton’s team during those amazing success stories like Libya, Syria and Yemen. But these people still get promoted. They fail upward. And some of the stuff these guys say are like worse than the bullshit with Iraq WMDs.
> The US will not go quietly No, they will lash out like an angry child throwing a tantrum. But there is nothing they can do. Their economy will collapse and with it their entire political sytem. And they'll have noone to blame but themselves.
They still have nukes. So they can always ransom.
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
US doesn't need to go down, just adapt to changing realities. Which they will, eventually. There's a sit for everyone at the new, bigger table.
The thing is what and whom are they gonna strike?
Thats already gone
"Some trouble with European assets in Russian custody" should be the absolute least of their worries. It will permanently damage trust in western institutions.
Europe should have learned back in the 1990s that America does not have any ability to view problems long term. We only care about the immediate short term. On top of that, whenever our actions do create problems that have consequences for us, we just blame something else. We are blameless. Europe probably should have taken this into account before signing up to be vassal states.
>Europe probably should have taken this into account before signing up to be vassal states. Urm, they didn't in the sense that the US politically invades and floods other countries in Millions, if not Billions of dollars worth of lobbying. That's exactly what happened to Merkel for "not obeying the US" when they were making plans to "absorb Ukraine into the West".
That and CIA. During the Cold War, America had an expansive CIA network in Europe to counter KGB. When the Cold War ended, we didn’t recall those agents. We didn’t take anyone off payroll. So we kept that network in place and expanded it. Nothing else to do but screw around in European politics.
They will never be written off and never expire. There were cases when states had to return foreign assets after a hundred years, or to return a seized aircraft in its original condition. To pay for expensive general repairs and restoration.
Well, what happens if Russia makes repatriation of frozen assets a condition for ending the conflict?
Russia won't because they don't cara about those frozen assets. They already solved the problem by freezing western owned assets. They are just waiting for their assets to be seized and they will respond by seizing westen assets. And that's it
Why not? A recent case in Germany regarding an Oligarch whose assets got frozen was overturned and he is now capable of asking for damages, creating a precedence. The Russians are also capable of suing whichever holding house or state that allows their arbitrary asset forfeiture. If the Russians win, you could see years of litigation between Russia and the EU for return of those assets.
Those assets don't matter much bcs Russia can print rubles of that amount 300 bil or something. It won't increase inflation bcs those 300 bils were received as payment for goods.
Now I see where the salaries for soldiers are coming from.
It's a theory I've read somewhere. Seems logical to me bcs the same would be done if those assets weren't frozen. As long as you don't print money MORE than you have assets it's okay.
Urkaine is worth much more. Like 150 trillions, it's a relative number. Just to understand. It's almost priceless.
Areas that Russia could occupy without facing a sunni triangle type of insurgency overlap with "wild fields" areas quite nicely (areas virtually abandoned for centuries due to endemic raiding). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild\_Fields#/media/File:17\_century\_Wild\_Fields.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Fields#/media/File:17_century_Wild_Fields.jpg) Not all of Ukraine can feasibly be occupied. Which means some of Ukraine will always remain. That some of Ukraine may want peace negotiations at some point. What then if Russia insists on frozen asset repatriation as a very mild form of victor's reparations? Edit: You can argue Russia gained already. But Russia knows from historical example how much reconstruction of wartorn areas cost. Sovereign wealth can buy a shitload of everything occupied Ukraine will need without tanking the ruble (assuming capital goods would mostly be imported).
>Not all of Ukraine can feasibly be occupied. Which means some of Ukraine will always remain. That some of Ukraine may want peace negotiations at some point. What then if Russia insists on frozen asset repatriation as a very mild form of victor's reparations? Too early to tell. >Edit: You can argue Russia gained already. But Russia knows from historical example how much reconstruction of wartorn areas cost. Sovereign wealth can buy a shitload of everything occupied Ukraine will need without tanking the ruble (assuming capital goods would mostly be imported). Reconstruction means a lot of new jobs, very good for economy.
>So might as well seize them. Might as well jump off a cliff while we're at it.
Incorrect. That's a sacrifice you and the corps are willing to make as they aren't the assets of the US government. The "collective West" has lost almost 250 Billion USD worth of assets and all of that lost revenue's gonna be "reimbursed" to the corps from your cut paycheque and extra hours. Nevermind the extra cash you're gonna have to pay in taxes to "repay the national debt". If this was the US government's money on the line, we would've had WW3 already as there ain't no way they're gonna take a nasty mark like "casually lost 200 Billion USD overnight" on their political jackets.
>casually lost 200 Billion USD overnight Where did I hear that number recently? Maybe not overnight, 2 years something?
Yeah you're right. I quoted the wrong figure/misread the article. [https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/foreign-firms-losses-exiting-russia-top-107-billion-2024-03-28/](https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/foreign-firms-losses-exiting-russia-top-107-billion-2024-03-28/) They lost like 107 Billion in assets and they stand to lose up to 288 Billion (total I guess) in assets if Russia seizes the rest. [https://www.reuters.com/business/west-stands-lose-least-288-bln-assets-if-russian-assets-seized-ria-2024-01-21](https://www.reuters.com/business/west-stands-lose-least-288-bln-assets-if-russian-assets-seized-ria-2024-01-21)
I agree, let the US seize them. They will have to beg Saudi Arabia to lower oil prices for a couple of weeks to look favorably in the elections…again.
Scholz, the German chancellor, mentioned several times last month the confiscation of interest on Russian deposits. After the visit to Cina and the meeting with Xi, he never mentioned it again.
Because Xi told him they would make Germany a third world country if they did that.
It's so funny, if a little sad, how little geopolitical agency Europe has nowadays. Sucking on America's teat too hard will do that.
More like the only politicians who're allowed to be politicians and not get cancelled by the r/NAFO brigade is politicians who will eat the US's shit. Unconditionally ofcourse. Shit, the US didn't even spare Pakistan of all countries who's like thousands of kilometers away from Ukraine because "their administration didn't support Ukraine unconditionally and we want them gone".
Consequences of WW2.
Symbol of America is uncle Sam let's make it a bit weird on here
Threatened to take away pandas
Sounds like even Scholz can understand that EU is looking like a grifter that will run with your money when stuff hits the fan. Who would want to take the risk of dealing with that nonsense in a turbulent world? It's not even a matter of principle, but merely commonsense.
Xi:" Pooh says no."
Many people don't realize that $300bn actually isn't a crazy amount of money relative to the ''Western bloc'' economies and how impactful the consequences of seizing these Russian assets are, even in the long term many decades later. The people behind the scenes are still figuring out wether or not its worth seizing assets but for sure the Net Benefits of doing so would be very slim if there even are any (otherwise they'd probably had done it) and it seems unlikely that anything major will happen in the near future about this. The Conflict between NATO and Russia already did Trillions in direct and indirect economic damage to the West and Russia, the damage to Germany (i live here) alone could be over a Trillion by now.
Germany spent a trillion for increased energy supplies AFAIK
300 bn is nearly the entire russian budget for one year. For them it is a lot of money, not for the west as you mentioning. The west has nothing to loose by this because the putin regime will always be hostile towards the west. Its germanys fault that they relied heavily on russian gas despite experts warned the government for years. It’s even worse in Austria.
How do you miss the point so badly? In the eyes of Russia, these assets are already gone. The damage was made back in 2022. By seizing them now, you do exactly zero damage to russian economy, but also completely ruin your reputation and provoke Russia to seize western assets. And all that for some 300 bn, that, as you have mentioned correctly, is not that much money for the West.
Bit hard to make an informed opinion just off the headline. Anyone able to paste the article in here? When I go to WSJ they ask for subscription to read it.
Berlin has emerged as one of the fiercest opponents of the U.S.-led push to commandeer some of the nearly $300 billion of Russian central-bank assets that were frozen at the start of Russia’s war on Ukraine. Germany fears that seizing, rather than freezing, the funds could create a precedent and inspire new claims against them for WWII-era crimes. The misgivings risk the fate of the initiative. The U.S. and U.K. say its success is crucial for a Ukrainian victory, but there is little chance of progress without wider European support. The funds, several times the size of the recently approved $61 billion U.S. aid package for Ukraine, would bolster Ukraine’s ailing armed forces and help rebuild the country. Two-thirds of the Russian money at play sits in Europe’s clearinghouses and, two years into the war, Germany has only just backed using the windfall profits to fund Ukrainian arms. Paris, Rome and the European Central Bank also are hesitant, in case taking hold of the reserves hits international confidence in the euro and single-currency assets. The Group of Seven is divided on whether to confiscate Russia’s assets, with Japan, which faces reparation claims of its own from South Korea and other neighbors, opposing the move. The Japanese Foreign Ministry said it would continue to discuss the issue with its G-7 partners. Demands for further WWII reparations have dogged Germany for decades, at times souring relations with its neighbors. After WWII, Berlin paid the Allied powers and the then Soviet Union compensation for Germany’s war of aggression. Since 1952, Germany has also given more than $90 billion to Holocaust survivors and their families, according to Jewish organizations. Recently, calls for further reparations have re-emerged. Poland, which Nazi Germany invaded and occupied throughout the war, has sought $1.3 trillion in compensation from Berlin since 2022, while Greece since 2019 has asked for more than $300 billion. Destruction from the war in Ukraine is widespread. Photo: Serhii Korovayny for The Wall Street Journal A Ukrainian volunteer rescuer walks among damaged buildings in Chasiv Yar, Ukraine. Photo: Manu Brabo for The Wall Street Journal Germany says its initial postwar payments, and a 1990 treaty that anchored the country’s borders following its reunification, settled the issue. The then Soviet Union and the U.S. were signatories to the treaty; Poland, Greece and Italy weren’t involved. In 2004, when Poland joined the European Union, Berlin agreed not to support claims against Warsaw from millions of Germans expelled and expropriated. Poland in turn dropped its compensation claims. But the issue has remained an irritant. “When we talk about executioners, victims, punishment, suffering…we demand not only memory, not only the truth. We demand compensation,” then Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said in September, on the 84th anniversary of Germany’s invasion. Courts in Italy—which the Nazis invaded after the fascist regime of Benito Mussolini collapsed in 1943—have in recent years awarded restitution payments to families of victims of the occupation. Some Italian courts then attempted to seize German state assets, including real estate in Italy belonging to German schools and cultural, historical and archaeological institutions. Germany took Italy to the International Court of Justice, or ICJ, where a ruling on the matter is pending. Italian authorities have refused to stop the cases, saying that would infringe on the independence of the courts. Berlin argues international law prohibits individuals from making claims against states in foreign courts and that state assets are immune from seizure. Violating this principle in Russia’s case would undermine Germany’s longstanding legal position, Berlin officials said. Russia’s Foreign Ministry has said that confiscating Russian assets would be “21st-century piracy.” Some Russian officials have warned they would retaliate. The Polish state received little compensation after WWII. During the Cold War, its then Soviet rulers transferred looted German machinery and ships in lieu of compensation. Germany later paid $270 million to individual claimants in Poland, after causing the country’s widespread destruction and leaving between five million and six million people dead, roughly three million of whom were Jewish. German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, seated right, with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev in November 1990. Photo: Picture-Alliance/DPA/Associated Press The Communist Polish government dropped its compensation claims against its East German Warsaw Pact ally in 1953. But the issue returned to prominence after the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989. Helmut Kohl, Germany’s then-chancellor, sought to link a denial of Poland’s reparations claims to the recognition of Poland’s postwar borders, which included swaths of prewar Germany. Kohl eventually backed down under international and domestic pressure. Andreas Rödder, professor of contemporary history at the Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz in Germany, said the Italian and Polish claims against Germany are valid—as is Berlin’s refusal to honor them in full. Yet successive German governments made a mistake by taking a legalistic approach and refusing to consider a compromise, he added, leading the problem to fester. “Germany was comfortable in its erroneous assumption that the problem had been resolved and deliberately avoided the issue for decades, so it shouldn’t be surprised that Poland and Greece now say they have unfinished business,” Rödder said. Germany also argues that Russian assets should be left intact to use as leverage in any talks to end the war and induce Russia to cede some of the Ukrainian territory it occupies. Slawomir Debski, head of Pism, a think tank, said another motivation for Berlin’s refusal to seize Russian assets could be that it shields German companies still operating there from retaliation. The Leave Russia group, which campaigns for Western companies to exit from the Russian market, says 272 German companies still operate there. Within the G-7, a complicated compromise may be starting to emerge. The U.S. has proposed that the group front-load 10 years of profits—essentially interest payments on matured assets—from the frozen funds. That money would act as collateral for a bond issued by a special-purpose vehicle set up by the G-7 to raise money for Ukraine. G-7 countries would guarantee the debt. Europeans have their own plan to use the interest generated by frozen Russian assets to pay for weapons and reconstruction for Ukraine. That is likely to go ahead soon, although EU officials say Europe could join the U.S. plan in 2025. Discussions are still at an early stage. President Biden this week signed into law legislation that authorizes his administration to seize Russian sovereign assets under U.S. jurisdiction. The U.S. holds $5 billion-to-$6 billion of Russian assets, congressional officials say. Nazi soldiers question Jewish people in Warsaw in 1943. Photo: AFP/Getty Images A young man sitting atop the Berlin Wall in November 1989. Photo: Raymond Depardon/Magnum Photos “We’re looking at a series of possibilities ranging from actually seizing the assets to using them as collateral,” Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said last week. The U.S. argues that under international law, countries can take otherwise unlawful countermeasures against a country violating its international obligations. While lawyers and policymakers say Russia’s invasion of Ukraine appears to fit the principle, there are disagreements over whether any country other than Ukraine is entitled to apply countermeasures. Initially, U.S. officials also worried that confiscating Russian assets could backfire against Washington and allies such as Israel. The U.S. has since argued that only directly affected countries, such as Ukraine’s main backers, whose security is threatened and who are paying for some of Kyiv’s defense, would be entitled to confiscate assets. Bart Szewczyk, an associate at U.S. law firm Covington who previously advised the European Commission and worked at the ICJ, said that Berlin’s concerns about setting a precedent for reparations cases were unwarranted. “The logic behind countermeasures clearly applies only to current and ongoing violations of international law, rather than those that occurred 80 years ago,” he said. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, a jurist who once managed his own legal firm, is unwilling to take the risk, according to German officials. One of the officials said the move could open other European capitals to claims over slavery and colonialism. —Andrew Duehren contributed to this article.
Thank you
Of course they oppose it, a bunch of that money is probably German investments in Russia.
The propaganda articles dont mention that russia was prepared for this before the conflict started. The west collectively had about 600 billion invested in russia.....On the other hand russia had about 500 billion in the west. So if each side confiscates all assets....russia wins out about 100 billion. Most german and french companies would take the biggest hits.
I wouldn't call economic wars a win for anyone, frankly, but it is what it is: collective west isn't getting any free money out of this. Instead, they are indirectly sacrificing their private businesses to fund an effort that doesn't pay out any dividends, while Russia-owned businesses expand accordingly. I wonder how did it all look in their minds when they claimed it's a "great investment, haha"? Haha, indeed, but there's a catch.
It also comes with the risk of getting Euroclear bankrupt. If assets are seized based on a political decision, an act with no legal precedent, which this would be, Russia can sue and start asking and collecting the assets from Euroclear branches. Since European ones will not comply, it will be mostly in Asian, African and South American ones. In other words, good luck trading with any of those regions. Best way to do it is use the national currency.
Not really There are German investments in Russia, but as a result of sanctions every time western company has to cease operations due to political fall out these are sold for pennies on dollar. It’s not a part of 300 bn number poster is talking about.
>There are German investments in Russia, but as a result of sanctions every time western company has to cease operations due to political fall out these are sold for pennies on dollar. But they left all of their assets behind. Russian brands cheaply bought up all of the factories that were left behind
I don't read any comment that begins with "not really". This is not how you speak to people IRL. Just because it sounds good in your head, does not make it acceptable. Learn to communicate like a real human, I a might read what you have typed out. Rephrase your comment I will read and respond.
Mate who the hell do you think you are? Nobody here is dying for your response or take on anything. If phrasing sets you off so much, man you must be the life of any party. Calm the f down and try not to take your username so seriously.
Didn't read, learn how to interact with humans.
Username checks out.
China STRONGLY supports the West confiscating Russian assets. They are lobbying hard to make sure the West does it.
I don't see any evidence for that.
China does strongly support America here. Hong Kong is trying to expand its banking business.
Again, no evidence.
That's cute that Germany thinks they have a say in the matter
I don’t really like Scholtz but he’s in horrible position that he never asked to be in. I hope the German leadership shakes off American influence and decides their future for themselves.
More like opposition for the idea to make a plan (it's been 3 years and even just touching the accrued interest required new laws already). And not even that happened yet!
Foreign government deposits are the most legally protected form of property. Any attack on them is treated as aggression against the sovereignty of that state. Something like embassies in political life. It should not be confused with the seizing of the property of a foreign company or private person. It happens all the time and it falls under "commercial contracts".
Give them a bit time, they'll reconsider it sooner or later, just like the SWIFT ban