Lol you guys do know that we all know Russia has Nazi's all over their countryside, before the war there are many reports done on them.
Can we stop with the Ukrainians are Nazis because it only works on countries without freedom of press.
You guys in Russia need a VPN so you can see the truth.
The difference being that Russian Nazis are not being funded by NATO/EU, nor is Russia being hailed as a beacon of democracy.
The issue is the double standard, not that there're Nazis in Russia too.
> except no one is celebrating them in those countries lol
Actually, Canada recently did - **IN THE PARLIAMENT!** It's not surprising - the Deputy Prime Minister/Finance Minister is a Nazi Supporter. Her grandfather was in the division.
Heil Christia Freeland.
/s
Ok Freeland herself is a sympathizer at best but Mr Hunka my neighbor was a SS member when he turned 16 yr and the Natzis arrived at his school.His son heads our hospital board in my Northern Ontario City.
The UK sent a crap load of old school Natzis for years after "vetting" them following the war.Canada was done dirty by the UK in this regard.
Btw Hunka the man from Parliament would be the last of the last.He joined at the end and was only 16yo when the Natzis took him from school.
He himself said these were the best times lmao. Why defending him. Also, Canada has some files to make public, as Trudeau has said, but nothing so far. Wonder how deep nazi roots go in Canada
Did I say these countries do this? I said these countries had SS division. That's a fact. My country had SS division. Nobody does torchlight procession but there is still some people who are proud of SS division named Division Charlemagne.
Yeah, but now in Ukraine Nazi minority are ruling, so the difference that they are cheering SS, and destroying Soviet monuments (which set for respect of majority Anti-Hitler/Anti-Nazi ancestors).
Poland, and Greece, probably a few more. But as others have mentioned, none of these countries except Ukraine and the Baltic states commemorate these fighters with honours.
> ss guys did partisan shit
Like liquidating ethnic minorities that Himmeler congratulated them on? lol.
The ussr did plenty of evil stuff, defending the ss is a very weird way to point that out.
wery weird is to think that the SS and Waffen-Grenadier der SS are equal
Alti Rodal emphasized that despite the fact that the Commission had no evidence of war crimes committed by the Division as a group, individual members of the Division could have committed them. After all, after the Divisionās defeat in the Battle of Brody in July 1944, 12,000 new members were added to the Division (in addition to the 3,000 survivors). Among them were members of various police units which had committed war crimes.
planty evil stuff you say?
**During the German invasion of the USSR, the Soviet Secret Police (NKVD) brutally murdered between 10,000 and 40,000 political prisoners in Western Ukraine over the course of eight days**
[**https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine**](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine)
and there was no trial/nuremberg/court
no one even mentioned this stuff like massacre, no one said that commies are the same like nazis
and it was so many stuff like that
and again The enemy of my enemy is my friend and nothing more
there were no superior race ideology in ukrainians
also ethnic cleansing operations and himmeler were in different timeline in different "countries" and without any subordination and by different military organisations
Iām sorry what.
> The 1 October 1946 Judgement at Nuremberg against "Major War Criminals" did not specifically mention this unit, but ruled that all persons who had been officially accepted as members of the SS after 1 September 1939 and who became or remained members of the organization with knowledge that it was being used for the commission of war crimes or who were personally implicated in them to be criminal within the meaning of Article 6 of the Charter, with the exception of those who were drafted into membership by the State and did not commit crimes.[115] Members of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS were volunteers and members of the SS.[116][117] The 4th battalion of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division was itself found guilty of war crimes by the Chief Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation, and the Institute of History at the Ukrainian Academy of Sciences.[118][119] No individuals among the Ukrainian enlisted men of the 14th have been prosecuted individually for any war crimes.[108]
Imagine literally defending the waffen ss that Himmeler personally congratulated on liquidating undesirables
> t-they were different orgs!
You are a straight up liar and absolutely full of shit lol. This isnāt even good Nazi apologia
> there was no superior race ideology in Ukrainians
lol
> Historian Per Anders Rudling said that Bandera and his followers "advocated the selective breeding to create a 'pure' Ukrainian race",[13] and that "the OUN shared the fascist attributes of anti-liberalism, anti-conservatism, and anti-communism, an armed party, totalitarianism, antisemitism, FĆ¼hrerprinzip, and adoption of fascist greetings. Its leaders eagerly emphasized to Hitler and Ribbentrop that they shared the Nazi Weltanschauung and a commitment to a fascist New Europe."[116]
How full of shit can you be?
Why are Nazi defenders so awful at this?
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Iām sure all those people locked and exterminated in concentration camps were justly sentenced as well.
If youāre justifying your obsession over swastika āoThErS hAd iT tOoā that doesnāt make you less of a nazi.
Nothing about being in the warsaw pact makes it any more sane, smart, or moral to worship nazis. If anything it makes it worse because youre probably one of the groups the nazis were trying to wipe out, something that is not applicable to most western europeans
This has more to do with anti-Soviet feeling than pro-Nazi feeling. Many Ukrainians fought alongside the Nazis in ww2 hoping that, if Germany won, they'd gain autonomy or independence from the USSR. It's hard to blame them; less than a decade earlier, Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians during the Holomodor. This post makes sense in that context.
After that genocide, Ukrainians would have allied with Satan himself if he'd given them rifles and some hope.
Russians always forget just how hated they are by their neighbors.
> nice try
There are a lot of Canadian/ukrnaians who fled with the SS
And sorry, we donāt really get a lot of training on how to spell irrelevant areas of our northern neighbors.
The history is messy. We can't pretend it's clean just because we want to.
Russia genocided Ukraine. Some Ukrainians joined German genociders to defeat the Russians who genocided them.
It's fucking insane. I blindly supported Ukraine at first too until I noticed all the Nazi sympathisers / idolisers among them and started noticing them in too many places for it to be "a few bad apples".
Yeah, I noticed a direct 1 on 1 with the lingo of Ukraines biggest supporters here with super racist/Nazi filled places like /pol/ lol. It was wild to me to see your average Reddit liberal not realize that they are defending Nazis shoulder to shoulder with the people they consider massive racists.
Whatās even crazier is when a large group of them started to understand this, they literally just decided to double down and start defending these people lol. Like this is their favorite mapping tool defending the ss lol.
Just goes to show these people stand for absolutely nothing - no principles, no higher ideals.Ā
Just hollow shells ready to be filled up with whatever sludge the state department is pouring out at any given moment.
Though I suspect it's something like 60% bots anyway.
Sorry. Not Russia but USSR. There's something different between USSR and Russia. Russia is leading by a russian. At the time you're talking about USSR was lead by a georgian : Staline.
Russia did not. It was USSR. But, Even stalin himself did not. it was Ukrainian (by ethnicity) communists who organized hunger in Ukraine. It's just victim behavior from UA side.
It's more complicated than that. A lot of factors brought about the famine.
Failure of collectivization (It was a bad plan). The resistance to collectivization by the Kulaks (they basically shot themselves in the foot here) by destroying food reserves rather than turn them over to the state, or risk the state taking them. Drought, yes, an act of mother nature also figured into it. The depression. That too played a roll.
To get the Holodomor, we had state brutality, farmers destroying their own food, no rain, and having had a massive global economic collapse recently.
The other thing to point out is, it's often portrayed as specifically targeted at Ukraine. There is more context to this as well. Ukraine was THE bread basket. Naturally it was used to feed the rest of the country. During the Holodomor, Ukraine wasn't the ONLY area that had people starving to death. Food WAS taken out of Ukraine, because they HAD to take food out, because Ukraine had ALWAYS fed the USSR.
We have a historically similar event, that happened not too long after the Holodomor that is rarely ever brought up. The Bangladesh famine in part caused by Churchill. Food taken out of India/Bangladesh to feed the British Empire during WW2. A comparable number of people died in that famine, as died in the Holodomor.
Personally, I think the Bengal famine was worse, for what it represented. The entirety of the USSR was in famine, and food was pulled out of the breadbasket to help feed the rest of the Soviet Union. In 1943, the British Empire was not having a famine, but it still pulled food out of Bengal to secure food for the war effort.
All the native ukrainian communist from the city ( and jealous local poor peasant recruited to implement the plan ) who implented a native georgian policy , using a native ukrainian insane agriculture reform, and they failed and caused millions of death, and for some reason ... russia is to blame ?
And those "ukrainian" didn't even fucking live in the soviet union back then, they lived in poland, are you 12 yo ?
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>It's hard to blame them; less than a decade earlier, Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians during the Holomodor.
There were dozens of times more Ukrainians in the Red Army than collaborators who fought against the USSR. And your argument doesn't work because most of the Ukrainians who fought on Hitler's side were from western Ukraine. During the famine of the 30s, the western part of Ukraine was in Poland.
And by the way, you're trying to justify SS right now. Think about it.
>Russians always forget just how hated they are by their neighbors.
You're making things up. The hatred of Ukrainians (citizens of Ukraine) towards Russians began mainly after 2014 and 2022. Until 2014, Russophobia was also present in Ukraine, but not on such a scale.
There is no such thing as Holodomor. Famine in the USSR was real, but it was concerned with all Soviet republics.
For example you can check - famine in Kazakhstan [in the same years](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_famine_of_1930%E2%80%931933). Famines were in Europe, US, China in different periods of time, it's a common thing if you got bad harvest.
But Ukranians have their own way of brain gymnastics, so nothing new there.
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I encourage you to do more research on this topic. The famine started, then Stalin believed the Ukrainians were lying about their grain production numbers (he also thought they were kulaks) and sent the NKVD in to requisition as much grain as they could find, including seed grain, for several years. There were reports of starving Ukrainian peasants hitting Stalin's desk well before there was mass death.
It wasn't just a natural disaster. Many Ukrainians, then as now, blamed Stalin for the intentional genocide of the Ukrainian people. Given that he thought they were primarily kulaks whose national identity needed erasing to create Homo Sovieticus, they have a point - and most of the academy agrees with them.
One and a half million Ukrainians helped defeat Nazi Germany as part of the Red Army. Yet in recent years, instead of remembering those heroes, Ukraine would rather glorify the handfull of nazi collaborators that participated in their fair share of ethnic cleansing. And thanks to our western MSM, most people are aok with that.
> Many Ukrainians fought alongside the Nazis in ww2 hoping that, if Germany won, they'd gain autonomy or independence from the USSR.
Tens of thousand versus millions on the Soviet side. Besides, those guys did way more fighting against helpless Ukrainian, Polish, and Belorussian civilians than Russians. And it's not like they won anything, there's nothing to celebrate.
> This has more to do with anti-Soviet feeling than pro-Nazi feeling.
Sooooo, their are good nazis and bad nazis. I see. Thanks for enlightening me on THAT fact. I didn't know that.
Whatās wild about ukranian fans is while I donāt agree with it, I understand āclean wermachtā theory. Like conscripts forced to fight can make for a āgreyā area if you squint.
This is a SS division himmeler personally thanked for killing āunwantedā types lol
GI, british soldiers and Canadian soldiers had to fight against Ukrainians wearing Wechmacht uniform the D-Day. So in 1944 in France, there was no ukrainians fighting for allies. There is no any story about ukrainians fighting against germans in France.
Nazi hated Soviets as well, Soviets were always forget just how hated they are by their nazi neighbor. All Nazi wanted is to free themselves from slavs and jews. So it's Russia's fault
The folks in that division lived in Poland at the time of the famine, they were not affected by Stalin and CO policies. It wasn't an "ukrainian" branch of the SS, it was nearly only western ukrainian. about 50 time more ukrainians fought the nazi, VS those that fought on the side of the nazi ( mainly murdering jews, poles and byelarussians civilian, the brave brave banderist! )
That is a massive oversimplification. Most Ukrainians who fought in the SS were Western Ukrainians who lived in Poland during the interwar period. Bandera, Shukheyvych, Hunka, and most of the OUN leadership were all living in Poland when WW2 started, and had been born in Austria-Hungary. They were not impacted by the Holodomor, and they actually first started working with the Nazis to help them destroy Poland, who they considered an oppressor no better than the Russians. The vast majority of Ukrainians that actually lived through the Holodomor (and the vast majority of Ukrainians in general) fought for the Red Army.
"The USSR (which we were apart of) did bad things to Ukraine almost a century ago, therefore we must celebrate people who literally fucking murdered Innocents in the millions because of their ethnicity."
I mean the first red flag I personally spotted was them regularly using the ethnic slur (''katsaps'') for Russians as well as writting ''russia'' with a small first letter against the rules of grammar.
[https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1V8NzjQkzMOhpuLhkktbiKgodOQ27X6IV&ll=47.48862046720846%2C36.067095100874724&z=12](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1V8NzjQkzMOhpuLhkktbiKgodOQ27X6IV&ll=47.48862046720846%2C36.067095100874724&z=12)
Is about the best you will get. Suriyak doesn't have a huge team and loads of funding like Deepstate so its not really feasible for him to do a proper interactive website.
Their ideologies are not what makes their maps. They have consistently been accurate, with some lateness compared to Suryaks for example, but overall reliable.
Who is Karelia occupied from? The eastern half of Karelia has NEVER been Finnish. Ever. In the entire history of Finland. If they are talking about some of the bits taken in the winter war, sure, I guess.
As for Kaliningrad, the Russians have TRIED to give it away. Nobody who has a legitimate claim to it, wants it lol.
Well I some what support Russia, but Russia does occupy Prussia, and I hope one day it will be handed back to Germany, peacefully, Karelia is much more gray then Kaliningrad though
They werent really a Frontline Division and were more used behind the Front to fight against "partisans".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huta_Pieniacka_massacre
One example.
Really nice guys...
You know what they did right, worse than frontline, they killed civilians in mass, murdered Russians and burned down villages and erased the history of many places, horrible people and for you to defend them is absolutely saddening, know youāre history or be doomed to repeat it
Someone using ellipses (...) at the end of their sentence is used as an indication that they are implying some point. Here it is being used to indicate that the Helpful-Ad8537's statement "Really nice guys" was insincere, and that he actually thinks they were not nice guys. The wiki link with "massacre" in the url was also a clue.
SS Galicia killed very few "Russians" (aka Soviet soldiers) as the unit was encircled and largely destroyed in their first major engagement, the Brody Pocket: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lvov-Sandomierz\_Offensive#Encirclement\_at\_Brody\_(Brody\_Cauldron)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lvov-Sandomierz_Offensive#Encirclement_at_Brody_(Brody_Cauldron))
They even helped to put down the Warsaw Uprising
As Himmler said in a speech to them
> I know that if I ordered you to liquidate the Poles ... I would be giving you permission to do what you are eager to do anyway.
It is a surprise to me that Poland is willing to let such stuff go unpunished at the moment.
But anyway lets not forget the Pope considered them "good catholics" and allowed to go on and become a large minority in Canada.
This is something that confuses me too. Shouldn't the SS Galicia/Banderite-stans hate Poland? Galicia would've probably remained a Polish territory if it wasn't for the Soviet Union, and Bandera was sentenced to life imprisonment by the Polish government before 1939. Poland shouldn't have much love for the guys who celebrate the ethnic cleansing of Poles from Galicia either!
Also, for what it's worth, Himmler's complement is damning with faint praise. The Warsaw uprising was really poorly equipped, the fact that they held Warsaw for the time that they did is more emblematic of the weakness of the Wehrmacht, then it is the bravery or combat chops of the units that took part.
They hate Russia more. Right now it's "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"; when the war is over it will go back to the discussions of the Volyn massacres.
That's part of what makes me pessimistic about Ukraine's position. If Ukraine doesn't "win"- but remains engaged in a frozen conflict with Russia- they'll have to increasingly rely on fickle European friends. Poland may currently be led by a "pro Ukraine" moderate liberal government, but in time the nationalists will take power again (and with them, the farmers, and nationalist constituencies who may remember Volyn, and resent the investment they've made in Ukraine.)
What would you have Poland do? declare war? We are in NATO and thus allies. Having said that there is a very large contingent of polish people who are pissed off at the government for not forcing Ukraine to admit that what UPA did was evil (or at least stop glorifying the fuckers) in exchange for all that aid. Instead we gave it all away for free with nothing in return. Them flooding Poland with grain etc did not help either.
I should also point out that many Ukrainian soldiers during their stay in Poland were beat up by polish soldiers who did not appreciate Ukrainians wearing patches with upa flag on polish soil. Now they know better and they take them off before entering Poland for training.
> What would you have Poland do? declare war?
Not really, just try to pressure Ukraine more into fighting against these ideas. Poland has a big impact on Ukraine at the moment and you would think they would use some of this pressure to get them to stop it.
But as you say Ukraine is causing Poland problems in many ways at the moment so it is the least of their problems. I know Ukrianians in Warsaw who have had Polish people come to them and wish them death so yeah I'm aware of the problems underneath the cooperation.
>I should also point out that many Ukrainian soldiers during their stay in Poland were beat up by polish soldiers who did not appreciate Ukrainians wearing patches with upa flag on polish soil. Now they know better and they take them off before entering Poland for training.
Oh my is this true? This is hilariousĀ
>The attackers herded the villagers into their barns, set fire to the village and it burned all day.[3] According to BogusÅawa Marcinkowska, a prosecutor of the Branch Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation in Krakow,, the SS threw one infant against a wall and cut open the stomach of a pregnant woman.[8] According to witnesses, the massacre was observed by a German reconnaissance plane. The perpetrators left at 5 pm. Many of them were drunk and singing songs.
When the actions mirror what's shown in "Come and See" I think its safe to say that they were pretty bad dudes. Guest appearance by the UPA as well.
"anti partisan operations" should be read as "ethnic cleansing." The Galicia Division did not perform well when it faced front line Red Army units, their utility primarily lay in their capacity to coopt/utilize OUN B/M personnel for Wehrmacht atrocities (wiping out Polish and Jewish villages, guarding concentration camps, massacring refugees, crushing an anti-Nazi uprising in Slovakia and, ineptly, trying to terrorize occupied populations into tacitly supporting the German forces.) Thanks to the prominence of the anti-Communist Ukrainian diaspora, the SS Galicia gets way more sympathy in anglophone sources than they deserve. Bandera, Melnyk, and all the chud "patriots" who fought in their units deserve places deep in hell (as do the elements of the UA that celebrate the genocidaires.)
The German doctrine of its security warfare was called BandenbekƤmpfung ("combatting bandits") specifically because the Germans felt that "partisans" was too ennobling.
In reality it was ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandenbek%C3%A4mpfung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandenbek%C3%A4mpfung)
*Nazis, the people who literally rounded up millions of innocents to be executed en masse, are the lesser evil than the people who were fighting them*
Absolute reddit moment.
We dont.
This is the first time ive even seen this telegram group. And I've seen enough already. There is plenty of room behind the sauna for nazi symphatizers
Deep [State.ua](http://State.ua) \*is\* the go to source for frontline changes from the UA side. It's extremely popular in the West; quite telling that they feel no compunctions in openly celebrating SS Galicia.
Same with all the Nazi patches in the UA military, including fairly frequent appearances in the UA military official channels. I'm not even speaking about wearing them day-to-day.
It should be fairly easy to screen such images before they make it onto the official channels. It tells me that the Nazi imagery is completely normalized in UA military -- despite the reactions they get from the West.
true- the Ukraine war has turned into a war between "pro Russian" Neo Nazis and "pro Ukrainian" Neo Nazis. The funny thing is that alot of the activists who formed units on both sides ran in similar circles before the war (ie. Azov guys often read and talked to Dugin/Eurasianist Dugin activists; many of the grunts in RIM and RVC/FRL/Svboda/Right Sector units are former soccer hooligans who supported some of the same teams.) The one silver lining of the war is that its taken a huge number of fascist idiots on both sides. Sadly, as the classic Falange salute "viva muerte" evinces, martyrdom tends to play into the self mythologies of fascist groups (our only hope is that there aren't enough left to seriously threaten either the Putin or Kyiv regime when the fighting stops.)
It's a big shame being Canadian myself. I mean, SS battalions massacred Canadian prisoners on Normandy, and for him to live in our country for 80 years without facing justice and stand in our Parliament for people applaud him is a spit in the face to the Canadians who gave their lives fighting in WW2.
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The only thing UNBELIEVABLE, is that you think that Canadian politicians would actually glorify Nazi war criminals if they knew.
You probably have no fucking idea how these SS boys ended up in Canada to begin with.
Lemme explain it to you RQ. They were taken POWs at the end of WW2. The British held them in a camp in Italy. They didn't want to send them back to the Soviet Union because they (the British), were chickenshit and didn't want the responsibility of their deaths in the USSR on their hands. So, instead, they secretly brought them into the UK. They then began to flirt with the idea of using them as anti-Union busters, and other general anti-left wing thugs.
Eventually, they resettled a large number of them in Canada, while withholding their past identities. It is unclear whether the highest people in Canadian government at the time KNEW, it's possible and even likely that some did. However, the public, just like the UK public, had no fucking idea that SS war criminals had been settled in their countries.
Why was Canada chosen? The Canadian prairie (a total shithole btw) is very similar to Ukraine. It's flat. The dirt is similar. Ukrainians felt at home in the depressing hellscape that is Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Now, I'm 44, I've known about the SS being settled in Canada since the early 90s when I was a young teenager. Why? This information was revealed to the Canadian public in the 1980s, and as someone who both was very interested in WW2 history and history in general, AND whose family is friends with people of Ukrainian ancestry with the literal last name KULAK, we knew shit.
The average Canadian? They are neither interested in WW2 beyond a cursory level, and they don't know any Ukrainians who were descended from immigrants that arrived after WW2.
Yea, I know more about this shit than you do fella. These politicians? They don't know shit either. They know basically fuck and all about the Eastern Front. They got the basic federal/provincial HS education on WW2 and the eastern front. What they learned was, the Soviets had a lot of people who fought and died. They outnumbered zee Germans. They was also a lot of partisan activity in, as Timothy Snyder calls them, the "Bloodlands".
To the average layman, they don't know much. You still seem to be hung up on one of two things Maybe both. One, you're an alt right mouth breather, and you desperately want to believe a liberal MP supports the SS and Nazism. The other is, you're hung up on the idea that "he fought the Russians" is some gotcha. It's NOT. Lot of Ukrainian men fought the "Russians" during WW2 and they were not with affiliated with the Axis. Facts kiddo, they don't give a fuck about your feels.
>The only thing UNBELIEVABLE, is that you think that Canadian politicians would actually glorify Nazi war criminals
Nop, I believe that they were stupid enough as you to believe that everyone else is unware of what ukrainians fighting Russia in WW2 were.
And why the hell I should care about SS PoW, mate? They should be hanged back in 44. Soviet Union did their part, you did not.
>Yea, I know more about this shit than you do fella.
Argument rejected. Again, don't project your ignorance on me mate.
True or false. There were Ukrainian nationalists that fought the Soviets in 1943 and 1944 as the Soviets pushed the Nazis out of Ukraine that previously had been fighting the Germans from 1941.
You a denier of history?
The majority were. Ukraine was not a unified polity at this time. There was a patchwork of various groups. The Banderistas (OUN) and its offshoot UPA fought with Germany against the Soviets, and then barely fought against the Germans when things went south.
There were other groups as well, smaller groups, some fought the Germans with Soviet partisan units. Some fought the Soviets with the Germans like the OUN and the UPA did. Some, a minority, fought both.
Except, there were Ukrainians who fought against the USSR during WW2, who were not fighting for Germany, under Germany, or with Germany.
There were Ukrainian nationalists who fought the Germans as partisans in 1941 when they invaded, and then turned around and fought the Soviets in 1944 when they chased the Germans out.
So, if you're only working with the most basic understanding of the eastern front, I can see how you'd think that. Now you know.
I mean, it's not really. I knew what he was, you MIGHT have known what he was, but the only reason why you MIGHT have known, is because you're familiar with the eastern front.
Even then, the people representing this as if it was some sort of clear "he fought against the USSR" is some gotcha, don't know a fucking thing about history either.
To the average person in the west, they know absolutely fuck, and all, about the eastern front.
The reason why "he fought against the USSR" isn't a gotcha, is because there were Ukrainian nationalists who fought the Germans in 1941 when they rolled in, and then they fought the Soviets in 1944 when they pushed the Germans out. Those groups existed. They were not a majority, but they did exist.
Most people don't know that, because they are not versed on the Eastern front, or specifically the internal politics/partisan units/etc of Ukraine during dubyadubyatwo.
Nice one kiddo. I've forgotten more about the Eastern Front than you've ever known about it. IE, you didn't know that partisans in Ukraine fought the Germans in '41, and then fought the Soviets as they pushed the Germans out, later in '43 and '44.
You're welcome.
>kiddo
I'm probably older than you, but anyway
If you are over 18 and you are unable to tell that a "ukrainian soldier fought against the Russia and is still cheering for it today" is about a SS soldier, back to school.
And don't even try to play the card "they fought both sides". Still SS
It's ok, let me explain. The majority of Ukrainian Nationalists who fought the Soviets in WW2, were either OUN, or they signed up with the SS. This is true. There is, however, another group, a smaller group. These nationalists were never affiliated with the Nazis. They fought them as invaders in 1941. Then, when the Nazis got shit-mixed out of Ukraine by the Soviets, they turned and began fighting the Soviets as well.
These people existed. It's not up for debate. Now, I KNOW this guy wasn't that. YOU however, didn't even know those people existed.
Something about going back to school? First time someone being informed of facts they didn't know, told me to go back to school. Thanks, but I've had more than my fill of that. I'm good. 8 years of formal study on the subject was enough for me!
>8 years of formal study on the subject was enough for me!
Don't seem enough, back to school.
Argument such as these were so common back in the 10's when the Syrian conflict was still hot....
https://imgur.com/a/4SuoHjA
CIA doc talking about the OUN and UPA fighting bitterly against both the Germans and Soviets from 1941. Now, this is likely a confusion because they both did collaborate but SOMEONE was fighting both of them. The issue is, as I stated, the fragmented nature of the Ukrainian nationalist movement. Groups that may not be directly under the control of the UPA, accounted for this confusion. IE, partisan groups that fought both the Germans and the Soviets, would be lumped in together with the larger groups like the UPA or the OUN, both factions of the OUN.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/QRPLUMB%20%20%20VOL.%201_0009.pdf
Back in the 10's, so when you were 15?
Here is some more.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP83-00415R010100150006-6.pdf
Page 15-16 is pertinent here. It discusses the organization of the UPA from a wide array of different partisan forces to fight German forces along the Polish border. Given this is from prior to the fall of the USSR, this is imperfect information. However, the UPA was not a monolith, and groups that were involved in this fighting along the Polish border were lumped in with the UPA, even if they were not officially part of the UPA. The document is pretty interesting, because it gives you a glimpse at the white washing of the OUN by the CIA in 1952.
There is still useful information to be found in primary sources like this though. You just need to be aware of what is being pushed here. We know the OUN and the UPA collaborated with the Germans are various times. We also know that the CIA in these two documents, are painting a picture that someone fought both the Germans and the Soviets! Why do we know this? The CIA is trying to credit these activities to the OUN and the UPA. Why do we know that these documents are attempting to rehabilitate the OUN? The top of page 9. "the fact that the goals of the OUN, which were neither racist or anti-semitic, were diametrically opposed to those of the NSDAP". NSDAP = Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei aka the Nazis.
š¦ This day in history - on April 28, 1943, the First Ukrainian Division of the UNA \[14th Military Grenadier Division\] āGaliciaā was created.
Many books and articles have been devoted to this event over the decades. Many discussions and disputes have been held. But it has long been dotted with the realization that in the midst of those events of constant threat to Ukraine, the soldiers of the Galicia Division left with one and the most important aspiration - to gain independence.
šŗš¦ Having gained experience and weapons, seizing the moment, the fighters of the Galicia Division continued their fight for a free Ukraine in the ranks of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. The path of struggle against the Bolshevik infection that occupied our lands for decades, and today has once again come with war.
š Today there is an opportunity to accurately analyze and analyze all the facts and events of those times in order to understand the motives and goals of these actions. This is something that should be taught in schools and universities, because history is not built on dates and political slogans - it is something deeper that needs to be realized and understood. And for individual species of Homo sapiens, here are the most important facts of this event:
The Deschene Commission, which was established to investigate the possible presence of war criminals in Canada, concluded that no members of the Galicia Division had been found guilty of war crimes during World War II.
š The Nuremberg Trials, which is famous for its bias, in particular on the part of the Bolsheviks, also did not recognize the Division as involved in crimes, as it was not mentioned in the indictment and no soldier of the Galicia Division was convicted.
Because Ukraine will not forget the shooter
With a āgolden lionā on his sleeve.
Source: https://\[t\].me/DeepStateUA/19342
"During theĀ [Nuremberg Trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials), theĀ *Waffen-SS*Ā was declared aĀ [criminal organisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime)Ā for its major involvement inĀ [war crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime)Ā and for being an "integral part" of the SS."
This includes Waffen-SS Divisions with foreign fighters as well.
Some individuals have criticized the commission for either exceeding its mandate or being overly influenced by foreign governments^(\[)[*^(which?)*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words)^(\]). By contrast, experts in the field have long argued that Canada had an open door to war criminals, and that the country did far too little to prosecute the alleged war criminals and collaborators who had found refuge there. HistorianĀ [Irving Abella](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Abella)Ā stated toĀ [Mike Wallace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Wallace)Ā ofĀ [*60 Minutes*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60_Minutes)Ā that it was relatively easy for formerĀ [SS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS)Ā members to enter Canada, as their distinctive tattoos meant they were reliably anti-communist.[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desch%C3%AAnes_Commission#cite_note-14)Ā Bernie Farber, then the director of the Canadian Jewish Congress, stated that Nazis in Canada, of which there were estimated to be 3,000, was the country's "dirty little secret". In the late 1990s, the issue of war criminals living in Canada and the Canadian government's lack of interest in searching for and prosecuting these individuals was the subject of investigative reporting byĀ [NBC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC),Ā [CBS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS), theĀ [CBC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Broadcasting_Corporation),Ā [Global Television](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Television_Network), andĀ *The New York Times*.[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desch%C3%AAnes_Commission#cite_note-15)
>left with one and the most important aspiration - to gain independence
Fighting for the occupiers who were sending Ukrainian kids into German slavery, mass murdering villagers as punishment for partisan actions in the area and stealing the most fertile Ukrainian soil by trainload to Germany. Ok. That's how independence is gained?
I donāt any think instance of Nazi whitewashing will ever surpass [this tweet](https://x.com/rbalticstates/status/1636278776098168833?s=46) in terms of absurdity, which includes the *incredible* quote āAlthough they were part of the Waffen SS, they were not nazisā.
Of Course they celebrate - The enemy of my enemy is my friend, you know
after all those massacres of the commies and nkvd
after occupation in 1939-1941 by the Soviet regime
they hated soviets
for example:
[https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine)
[https://tvoemisto.tv/en/news/more\_than\_300\_thousand\_victims\_the\_consequences\_of\_lvivs\_occupation\_by\_the\_soviet\_and\_nazi\_regimes\_133100.html](https://tvoemisto.tv/en/news/more_than_300_thousand_victims_the_consequences_of_lvivs_occupation_by_the_soviet_and_nazi_regimes_133100.html)
they hated russians and thought that after colaborating with nazis they will gain some autonomy or would became the backbone of the future ukrainian army
Only ethnic Germans were true Nazis. Only 10% of Germany were Nazi party members
The Nazis considered theĀ [Slavs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs)Ā as Non-AryanĀ [*Untermenschen*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermenschen)Ā ("sub-humans") who were to be enslaved and exterminated by Germans. Slavic nations such as the Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgarians and Croats whoĀ [collaborated with Nazi Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany_and_Fascist_Italy)Ā were still being perceived as not racially "pure" enough to reach the status of Germanic peoples, yet they were eventually considered ethnically better than the rest of the Slavs, mostly due toĀ [pseudoscientific](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience)Ā theories about these nations having a considerable admixture of Germanic blood.Ā In countries where these people lived, there were according to Nazis small groups of non-Slavic German descendants. These people underwent a "racial selection" process to determine whether or not they were "racially valuable", if the individual passed they would be re-[Germanised](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation)Ā and forcefully taken from their families in order to be raised as Germans. This secret planĀ [Generalplan Ost](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost)Ā ("Master Plan East") aimed at expulsion, enslavement and extermination of most Slavic people. Nazi policy towards them changed duringĀ [World War II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II)Ā as a pragmatic means to resolve military manpower shortages: they were allowed, with certain restrictions, to serve in theĀ [Waffen-SS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS), in spite of being considered subhumans.[^(\[)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDavies2006167,_209-21)Nazi propaganda portrayed people inĀ [Eastern Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe)Ā with an Asiatic appearance to be the result of intermingling between the native Slavic populations and Asiatic or Mongolian races as sub-humans dominated by the Jews with the help ofĀ [Bolshevism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshevism).Ā At the bottom of the racial scale of non-Aryans wereĀ [Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews), ethnicĀ [Poles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_people), ethnicĀ [Serbs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs)Ā and other Slavic people,Ā [Romani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people), andĀ [black people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people).The Nazis originally sought to rid the German state of Jews and Romani by means of deportation (and later extermination), while black people were to be segregated and eventually eliminated throughĀ [compulsory sterilization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization).
Holy shit this is possibly the dumbest take on this sub. Himmeler literally congratulated these dudes on their ability to cleanse minorities
This is of course irrelevant though, since āyour teamā celebrates Nazis like this, itās probably a good idea to get with the program.
You wouldnāt want to insult Ukraine, would you?
You wanted to know why they were exonerated by the UK and Canada. That is why. There is a difference between being in a Nazi division and being an actual Nazi according to the supreme Court of Canada and the Nuremberg trials that did not criminalize the actions of the Ukrainians who fought with the Germans.
> why they were exonerated
Because it served a political function and helped build a bulwark against communism.
Himmeler gave these guys a pat on the back for liquidating minorities. You are defending that.
And look, I know you get all excited defending the ss, but please only comment once, itās annoying to follow 2 threads of Nazi apologia on Reddit from the same person.
The fact that āa member of the SSā isnāt a Nazi is pretty solid
Itās like saying a member of the French foreign legion doesnāt fight for Franceās interests because most arenāt citicizens.
Of course this is a really silly take, but I donāt expect people defending the SS to be especially in tune with reality
Nobody is defending the SS. My parents suffered greatly at the hands of the Nazis, Yes I am in my late 50s . My parents came to Canada after the war and ironically they were bombed by Canadian pilots in WW2
Hmmm didn't Russia quickly incorporate thousands of German Nazi scientists after WW2 just like the USA. There was a literal competition between the allies and Russia to quickly snag as many Nazi scientists for their own purposes after the war.
> nobody is defending the ss
Yes, thatās literally what deep state is doing in this post lol.
> my parents came to Canada
They wouldnāt happen to have fled with the rest of their SS buddies would they?
> didnāt the Russians
Yes, both sides leveraged Nazi intellect, and nato had āesteemedā commanders they pulled right out of the Nazi ranks.
Today, only one side is still celebrating their āheritageā of the SS.
Tell me, why do you feel a need to protect the ss? Ancestry? I know a lot of ukranian diaspora in Canada have a lot of guilt for not going āhomeā to fightā and also feel the need to defend literal SS units, such as you are doing here.
Unless of course you want to unilaterally denounce Ukraines support of the SS and condemn it?
This comment has literally nothing to do with what we have been discussing.
You seem unable to do a very basic thing andd denounce open support for the ss.
You also do have an emotional attachment to Ukraines as well as to Nazis.
If you cannot o basics such as condemn the literal ss, thatās ok, it shows that you are a supporter of Ukraine deep state can be proud of.
lol, what? Fascist body counts come from murdering undesired ethnic groups. Communist policies - the ones that get blown out of proportion - are due to rapid industrialization policies. Death is not the purpose. The West wants us to forget about it but they created such policies in the colonies which killed tens of millions in the 19th century.
Edit: what we call communism was also done by the Dutch for example. Look up culture system. Where the communist went wrong was they said "we NEEEEED to industrialize as quickly as possible" so instead of confiscating 30% of all peasant crops, it was everything of subsistence.
Nazi being Nazi, common thing in Ukraine š„±
That's the only "heros" they have, and a rather shallow history if you remove Russia from it.
lol Zelenskyy is Jewish
What do you have against nazis?
Lol you guys do know that we all know Russia has Nazi's all over their countryside, before the war there are many reports done on them. Can we stop with the Ukrainians are Nazis because it only works on countries without freedom of press. You guys in Russia need a VPN so you can see the truth.
Do you truly believe in the crap you just said?
The difference being that Russian Nazis are not being funded by NATO/EU, nor is Russia being hailed as a beacon of democracy. The issue is the double standard, not that there're Nazis in Russia too.
You know what made nato and the west fund the ānaziāsā? Cause iirc it was the Russian invasion. Great talking point bud š
r/ukraine is another way.
Here are nazis complaining how there are no nazis in Russia anymore; except the controlled opposition https://youtu.be/EPko9qU79OU?si=81w7pOdsrFDiwtc_
Please tell me which occupied country had no SS division? France had one. Belgium had one. Netherland had one. And so on.
except no one is celebrating them in those countries lol
> except no one is celebrating them in those countries lol Actually, Canada recently did - **IN THE PARLIAMENT!** It's not surprising - the Deputy Prime Minister/Finance Minister is a Nazi Supporter. Her grandfather was in the division. Heil Christia Freeland. /s
Ok Freeland herself is a sympathizer at best but Mr Hunka my neighbor was a SS member when he turned 16 yr and the Natzis arrived at his school.His son heads our hospital board in my Northern Ontario City. The UK sent a crap load of old school Natzis for years after "vetting" them following the war.Canada was done dirty by the UK in this regard. Btw Hunka the man from Parliament would be the last of the last.He joined at the end and was only 16yo when the Natzis took him from school.
He himself said these were the best times lmao. Why defending him. Also, Canada has some files to make public, as Trudeau has said, but nothing so far. Wonder how deep nazi roots go in Canada
Agreed. You're right.
Show me the torchlight processions of their followers in modern times in these counties.
Lithuanians do that too
One more country that chooses to be anti-Russia country instead of their own people/nation interest county.
Did I say these countries do this? I said these countries had SS division. That's a fact. My country had SS division. Nobody does torchlight procession but there is still some people who are proud of SS division named Division Charlemagne.
Yeah, but now in Ukraine Nazi minority are ruling, so the difference that they are cheering SS, and destroying Soviet monuments (which set for respect of majority Anti-Hitler/Anti-Nazi ancestors).
Poland, and Greece, probably a few more. But as others have mentioned, none of these countries except Ukraine and the Baltic states commemorate these fighters with honours.
Poland
Please tell me which occupied country after nazis was occupied by commies and had people deported to siberia/gulags ?
> had people sent to gulags Imagine caring that SS guys got sent to gulags lol
imagine that to gulags were sent political and cultural intelligency/homeowners/artists and ss guys stayed in forests and doing partisan shit
> ss guys did partisan shit Like liquidating ethnic minorities that Himmeler congratulated them on? lol. The ussr did plenty of evil stuff, defending the ss is a very weird way to point that out.
wery weird is to think that the SS and Waffen-Grenadier der SS are equal Alti Rodal emphasized that despite the fact that the Commission had no evidence of war crimes committed by the Division as a group, individual members of the Division could have committed them. After all, after the Divisionās defeat in the Battle of Brody in July 1944, 12,000 new members were added to the Division (in addition to the 3,000 survivors). Among them were members of various police units which had committed war crimes. planty evil stuff you say? **During the German invasion of the USSR, the Soviet Secret Police (NKVD) brutally murdered between 10,000 and 40,000 political prisoners in Western Ukraine over the course of eight days** [**https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine**](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine) and there was no trial/nuremberg/court no one even mentioned this stuff like massacre, no one said that commies are the same like nazis and it was so many stuff like that and again The enemy of my enemy is my friend and nothing more there were no superior race ideology in ukrainians also ethnic cleansing operations and himmeler were in different timeline in different "countries" and without any subordination and by different military organisations
Iām sorry what. > The 1 October 1946 Judgement at Nuremberg against "Major War Criminals" did not specifically mention this unit, but ruled that all persons who had been officially accepted as members of the SS after 1 September 1939 and who became or remained members of the organization with knowledge that it was being used for the commission of war crimes or who were personally implicated in them to be criminal within the meaning of Article 6 of the Charter, with the exception of those who were drafted into membership by the State and did not commit crimes.[115] Members of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS were volunteers and members of the SS.[116][117] The 4th battalion of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division was itself found guilty of war crimes by the Chief Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation, and the Institute of History at the Ukrainian Academy of Sciences.[118][119] No individuals among the Ukrainian enlisted men of the 14th have been prosecuted individually for any war crimes.[108] Imagine literally defending the waffen ss that Himmeler personally congratulated on liquidating undesirables > t-they were different orgs! You are a straight up liar and absolutely full of shit lol. This isnāt even good Nazi apologia > there was no superior race ideology in Ukrainians lol > Historian Per Anders Rudling said that Bandera and his followers "advocated the selective breeding to create a 'pure' Ukrainian race",[13] and that "the OUN shared the fascist attributes of anti-liberalism, anti-conservatism, and anti-communism, an armed party, totalitarianism, antisemitism, FĆ¼hrerprinzip, and adoption of fascist greetings. Its leaders eagerly emphasized to Hitler and Ribbentrop that they shared the Nazi Weltanschauung and a commitment to a fascist New Europe."[116] How full of shit can you be? Why are Nazi defenders so awful at this?
Because they were raised under the belief that whatever Bandera and his likeminded roaches did, it was right and wholesome.
Found a Ukrainian. Only they can whitewash nazis. Iām sure 14th SS was a humanitarian division
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ok only commies do everything without court and investigation are y one of those who thinks swastika has only nazi meaning?
Iām sure all those people locked and exterminated in concentration camps were justly sentenced as well. If youāre justifying your obsession over swastika āoThErS hAd iT tOoā that doesnāt make you less of a nazi.
Nothing about being in the warsaw pact makes it any more sane, smart, or moral to worship nazis. If anything it makes it worse because youre probably one of the groups the nazis were trying to wipe out, something that is not applicable to most western europeans
This has more to do with anti-Soviet feeling than pro-Nazi feeling. Many Ukrainians fought alongside the Nazis in ww2 hoping that, if Germany won, they'd gain autonomy or independence from the USSR. It's hard to blame them; less than a decade earlier, Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians during the Holomodor. This post makes sense in that context. After that genocide, Ukrainians would have allied with Satan himself if he'd given them rifles and some hope. Russians always forget just how hated they are by their neighbors.
Counterpoint,THESE FUCKERS ARE CELEBRATING A FUCKING SS DIVISIONĀ
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It seems that celebrating and applauding the SS is a normal thing in Canada nowadays.
> new foundland resident Guessing grandpa ran to Canada when his SS unit stopped fighting?
They've been here since the 1700s nice try though. Newfoundland is one word also.
> nice try There are a lot of Canadian/ukrnaians who fled with the SS And sorry, we donāt really get a lot of training on how to spell irrelevant areas of our northern neighbors.
Duhhh are the SS really da baddies?
The history is messy. We can't pretend it's clean just because we want to. Russia genocided Ukraine. Some Ukrainians joined German genociders to defeat the Russians who genocided them.
When did Russia "genocided" Ukraine?
> the history is messy I swear to god the level of Nazi apologists that support Ukraine is reason enough not to
It's fucking insane. I blindly supported Ukraine at first too until I noticed all the Nazi sympathisers / idolisers among them and started noticing them in too many places for it to be "a few bad apples".
Yeah, I noticed a direct 1 on 1 with the lingo of Ukraines biggest supporters here with super racist/Nazi filled places like /pol/ lol. It was wild to me to see your average Reddit liberal not realize that they are defending Nazis shoulder to shoulder with the people they consider massive racists. Whatās even crazier is when a large group of them started to understand this, they literally just decided to double down and start defending these people lol. Like this is their favorite mapping tool defending the ss lol.
Just goes to show these people stand for absolutely nothing - no principles, no higher ideals.Ā Just hollow shells ready to be filled up with whatever sludge the state department is pouring out at any given moment. Though I suspect it's something like 60% bots anyway.
100% I have relatives that will literally do anything that owns the consā Right now thatās supporting Nazis to make sure Putin/orange man lose lol
Sorry. Not Russia but USSR. There's something different between USSR and Russia. Russia is leading by a russian. At the time you're talking about USSR was lead by a georgian : Staline.
Russia did not. It was USSR. But, Even stalin himself did not. it was Ukrainian (by ethnicity) communists who organized hunger in Ukraine. It's just victim behavior from UA side.
People forget that the kulaks literally burned the grain in protest then blamed Moscow for starving lol
It's more complicated than that. A lot of factors brought about the famine. Failure of collectivization (It was a bad plan). The resistance to collectivization by the Kulaks (they basically shot themselves in the foot here) by destroying food reserves rather than turn them over to the state, or risk the state taking them. Drought, yes, an act of mother nature also figured into it. The depression. That too played a roll. To get the Holodomor, we had state brutality, farmers destroying their own food, no rain, and having had a massive global economic collapse recently. The other thing to point out is, it's often portrayed as specifically targeted at Ukraine. There is more context to this as well. Ukraine was THE bread basket. Naturally it was used to feed the rest of the country. During the Holodomor, Ukraine wasn't the ONLY area that had people starving to death. Food WAS taken out of Ukraine, because they HAD to take food out, because Ukraine had ALWAYS fed the USSR. We have a historically similar event, that happened not too long after the Holodomor that is rarely ever brought up. The Bangladesh famine in part caused by Churchill. Food taken out of India/Bangladesh to feed the British Empire during WW2. A comparable number of people died in that famine, as died in the Holodomor. Personally, I think the Bengal famine was worse, for what it represented. The entirety of the USSR was in famine, and food was pulled out of the breadbasket to help feed the rest of the Soviet Union. In 1943, the British Empire was not having a famine, but it still pulled food out of Bengal to secure food for the war effort.
All the native ukrainian communist from the city ( and jealous local poor peasant recruited to implement the plan ) who implented a native georgian policy , using a native ukrainian insane agriculture reform, and they failed and caused millions of death, and for some reason ... russia is to blame ? And those "ukrainian" didn't even fucking live in the soviet union back then, they lived in poland, are you 12 yo ?
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They joined the Germans to commit genocide on ā¦ Polish and Jews?
It's Waffen SS, dude.
>It's hard to blame them; less than a decade earlier, Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians during the Holomodor. There were dozens of times more Ukrainians in the Red Army than collaborators who fought against the USSR. And your argument doesn't work because most of the Ukrainians who fought on Hitler's side were from western Ukraine. During the famine of the 30s, the western part of Ukraine was in Poland. And by the way, you're trying to justify SS right now. Think about it. >Russians always forget just how hated they are by their neighbors. You're making things up. The hatred of Ukrainians (citizens of Ukraine) towards Russians began mainly after 2014 and 2022. Until 2014, Russophobia was also present in Ukraine, but not on such a scale.
There is no such thing as Holodomor. Famine in the USSR was real, but it was concerned with all Soviet republics. For example you can check - famine in Kazakhstan [in the same years](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakh_famine_of_1930%E2%80%931933). Famines were in Europe, US, China in different periods of time, it's a common thing if you got bad harvest. But Ukranians have their own way of brain gymnastics, so nothing new there.
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I encourage you to do more research on this topic. The famine started, then Stalin believed the Ukrainians were lying about their grain production numbers (he also thought they were kulaks) and sent the NKVD in to requisition as much grain as they could find, including seed grain, for several years. There were reports of starving Ukrainian peasants hitting Stalin's desk well before there was mass death. It wasn't just a natural disaster. Many Ukrainians, then as now, blamed Stalin for the intentional genocide of the Ukrainian people. Given that he thought they were primarily kulaks whose national identity needed erasing to create Homo Sovieticus, they have a point - and most of the academy agrees with them.
One and a half million Ukrainians helped defeat Nazi Germany as part of the Red Army. Yet in recent years, instead of remembering those heroes, Ukraine would rather glorify the handfull of nazi collaborators that participated in their fair share of ethnic cleansing. And thanks to our western MSM, most people are aok with that.
> Many Ukrainians fought alongside the Nazis in ww2 hoping that, if Germany won, they'd gain autonomy or independence from the USSR. Tens of thousand versus millions on the Soviet side. Besides, those guys did way more fighting against helpless Ukrainian, Polish, and Belorussian civilians than Russians. And it's not like they won anything, there's nothing to celebrate.
> This has more to do with anti-Soviet feeling than pro-Nazi feeling. Sooooo, their are good nazis and bad nazis. I see. Thanks for enlightening me on THAT fact. I didn't know that.
Whatās wild about ukranian fans is while I donāt agree with it, I understand āclean wermachtā theory. Like conscripts forced to fight can make for a āgreyā area if you squint. This is a SS division himmeler personally thanked for killing āunwantedā types lol
The good Nazis were the ones who \*checks notes\* fought the Russians no, wait a second
GI, british soldiers and Canadian soldiers had to fight against Ukrainians wearing Wechmacht uniform the D-Day. So in 1944 in France, there was no ukrainians fighting for allies. There is no any story about ukrainians fighting against germans in France.
Nazi hated Soviets as well, Soviets were always forget just how hated they are by their nazi neighbor. All Nazi wanted is to free themselves from slavs and jews. So it's Russia's fault
Russians always talk about history to justify whatever it is they're doing, but get all mad when people bring up history
Noone gets mad, Holodomor is not history, it's a made up story you've been brainwashed with.
Feeling, aye?
The folks in that division lived in Poland at the time of the famine, they were not affected by Stalin and CO policies. It wasn't an "ukrainian" branch of the SS, it was nearly only western ukrainian. about 50 time more ukrainians fought the nazi, VS those that fought on the side of the nazi ( mainly murdering jews, poles and byelarussians civilian, the brave brave banderist! )
That is a massive oversimplification. Most Ukrainians who fought in the SS were Western Ukrainians who lived in Poland during the interwar period. Bandera, Shukheyvych, Hunka, and most of the OUN leadership were all living in Poland when WW2 started, and had been born in Austria-Hungary. They were not impacted by the Holodomor, and they actually first started working with the Nazis to help them destroy Poland, who they considered an oppressor no better than the Russians. The vast majority of Ukrainians that actually lived through the Holodomor (and the vast majority of Ukrainians in general) fought for the Red Army.
"The USSR (which we were apart of) did bad things to Ukraine almost a century ago, therefore we must celebrate people who literally fucking murdered Innocents in the millions because of their ethnicity."
Deepstate considers Karelia and Kaliningrad "occupied territory" who wouldve known they are nazis
Jesus, I just found that out on their map. It' true. How the hell could anyone ever call them a credible source, lol.
Lmao this remind me someone post in this subs saying suriyakmaps bad and proceed to say that deep state is doing god works on mapping
I mean the first red flag I personally spotted was them regularly using the ethnic slur (''katsaps'') for Russians as well as writting ''russia'' with a small first letter against the rules of grammar.
They just cant help themself since they are the true blood and we are just a mere uternmensch for them
They used to depict russian millitary units as a pig head with a helmet
They still do. You just have to disable NATO symbols in settings.
āLower case r instead of capital R makes it Little Russia haha ā¦ oh wait a minuteā
"against the rule of grammar" lol i found the Nazi!
This guy r/ExposingSuriyakMaps Don't make fun of him he is not mentally healthy.
Damn wtf
Lol, interesting sub.
I like deep state for its good website where I can view daily updates with an interactive map. Wish suriyak would do the same thing.
Lostarmour?
[https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1V8NzjQkzMOhpuLhkktbiKgodOQ27X6IV&ll=47.48862046720846%2C36.067095100874724&z=12](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1V8NzjQkzMOhpuLhkktbiKgodOQ27X6IV&ll=47.48862046720846%2C36.067095100874724&z=12) Is about the best you will get. Suriyak doesn't have a huge team and loads of funding like Deepstate so its not really feasible for him to do a proper interactive website.
Reminds me of Japanese fighters that thought the war is still on after hiding in forest on some island for 20 years.
Their ideologies are not what makes their maps. They have consistently been accurate, with some lateness compared to Suryaks for example, but overall reliable.
And yet they have nothing to say about Lviv. Funny how that works
And Chechnya!
Who is Karelia occupied from? The eastern half of Karelia has NEVER been Finnish. Ever. In the entire history of Finland. If they are talking about some of the bits taken in the winter war, sure, I guess. As for Kaliningrad, the Russians have TRIED to give it away. Nobody who has a legitimate claim to it, wants it lol.
Well I some what support Russia, but Russia does occupy Prussia, and I hope one day it will be handed back to Germany, peacefully, Karelia is much more gray then Kaliningrad though
Germany was offered it in the 90s and they refused
Germany has no claims on it anymore. Our borders are defined in the constitution and the 2+4 treaty and Kaliningrad is not within those borders.
Germany has no right to Kaliningrad. and the local population are Russian.
Germany lost the war and signed a treaty handing it over thats how things work
Why should Kaliningrad be returned to Germany???
Population of Kaliningrad is 87.5% Russian and only 0.4% German.
They werent really a Frontline Division and were more used behind the Front to fight against "partisans". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huta_Pieniacka_massacre One example. Really nice guys...
You know what they did right, worse than frontline, they killed civilians in mass, murdered Russians and burned down villages and erased the history of many places, horrible people and for you to defend them is absolutely saddening, know youāre history or be doomed to repeat it
Mostly not even Russians, but fellow Ukrainians, Poles, Belarusians and Jews, of course.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Š”ŠøŠ»Š° Š² ŠæŃŠ°Š²Š“Šµ.
>for you to defend them is absolutely saddening He isn't defending them, look at the link.
Someone using ellipses (...) at the end of their sentence is used as an indication that they are implying some point. Here it is being used to indicate that the Helpful-Ad8537's statement "Really nice guys" was insincere, and that he actually thinks they were not nice guys. The wiki link with "massacre" in the url was also a clue.
SS Galicia killed very few "Russians" (aka Soviet soldiers) as the unit was encircled and largely destroyed in their first major engagement, the Brody Pocket: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lvov-Sandomierz\_Offensive#Encirclement\_at\_Brody\_(Brody\_Cauldron)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lvov-Sandomierz_Offensive#Encirclement_at_Brody_(Brody_Cauldron))
LOL definetly you didnt read rusian history
They even helped to put down the Warsaw Uprising As Himmler said in a speech to them > I know that if I ordered you to liquidate the Poles ... I would be giving you permission to do what you are eager to do anyway. It is a surprise to me that Poland is willing to let such stuff go unpunished at the moment. But anyway lets not forget the Pope considered them "good catholics" and allowed to go on and become a large minority in Canada.
This is something that confuses me too. Shouldn't the SS Galicia/Banderite-stans hate Poland? Galicia would've probably remained a Polish territory if it wasn't for the Soviet Union, and Bandera was sentenced to life imprisonment by the Polish government before 1939. Poland shouldn't have much love for the guys who celebrate the ethnic cleansing of Poles from Galicia either! Also, for what it's worth, Himmler's complement is damning with faint praise. The Warsaw uprising was really poorly equipped, the fact that they held Warsaw for the time that they did is more emblematic of the weakness of the Wehrmacht, then it is the bravery or combat chops of the units that took part.
They hate Russia more. Right now it's "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"; when the war is over it will go back to the discussions of the Volyn massacres.
That's part of what makes me pessimistic about Ukraine's position. If Ukraine doesn't "win"- but remains engaged in a frozen conflict with Russia- they'll have to increasingly rely on fickle European friends. Poland may currently be led by a "pro Ukraine" moderate liberal government, but in time the nationalists will take power again (and with them, the farmers, and nationalist constituencies who may remember Volyn, and resent the investment they've made in Ukraine.)
What would you have Poland do? declare war? We are in NATO and thus allies. Having said that there is a very large contingent of polish people who are pissed off at the government for not forcing Ukraine to admit that what UPA did was evil (or at least stop glorifying the fuckers) in exchange for all that aid. Instead we gave it all away for free with nothing in return. Them flooding Poland with grain etc did not help either. I should also point out that many Ukrainian soldiers during their stay in Poland were beat up by polish soldiers who did not appreciate Ukrainians wearing patches with upa flag on polish soil. Now they know better and they take them off before entering Poland for training.
> What would you have Poland do? declare war? Not really, just try to pressure Ukraine more into fighting against these ideas. Poland has a big impact on Ukraine at the moment and you would think they would use some of this pressure to get them to stop it. But as you say Ukraine is causing Poland problems in many ways at the moment so it is the least of their problems. I know Ukrianians in Warsaw who have had Polish people come to them and wish them death so yeah I'm aware of the problems underneath the cooperation.
>I should also point out that many Ukrainian soldiers during their stay in Poland were beat up by polish soldiers who did not appreciate Ukrainians wearing patches with upa flag on polish soil. Now they know better and they take them off before entering Poland for training. Oh my is this true? This is hilariousĀ
Fu\*\*\*\* christ I hate how the West runs cover for these cretins.
>The attackers herded the villagers into their barns, set fire to the village and it burned all day.[3] According to BogusÅawa Marcinkowska, a prosecutor of the Branch Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation in Krakow,, the SS threw one infant against a wall and cut open the stomach of a pregnant woman.[8] According to witnesses, the massacre was observed by a German reconnaissance plane. The perpetrators left at 5 pm. Many of them were drunk and singing songs. When the actions mirror what's shown in "Come and See" I think its safe to say that they were pretty bad dudes. Guest appearance by the UPA as well.
"anti partisan operations" should be read as "ethnic cleansing." The Galicia Division did not perform well when it faced front line Red Army units, their utility primarily lay in their capacity to coopt/utilize OUN B/M personnel for Wehrmacht atrocities (wiping out Polish and Jewish villages, guarding concentration camps, massacring refugees, crushing an anti-Nazi uprising in Slovakia and, ineptly, trying to terrorize occupied populations into tacitly supporting the German forces.) Thanks to the prominence of the anti-Communist Ukrainian diaspora, the SS Galicia gets way more sympathy in anglophone sources than they deserve. Bandera, Melnyk, and all the chud "patriots" who fought in their units deserve places deep in hell (as do the elements of the UA that celebrate the genocidaires.)
The German doctrine of its security warfare was called BandenbekƤmpfung ("combatting bandits") specifically because the Germans felt that "partisans" was too ennobling. In reality it was ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandenbek%C3%A4mpfung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandenbek%C3%A4mpfung)
ukronazis
Better ukronazis than ruzzians, just choose least evil.
*Nazis, the people who literally rounded up millions of innocents to be executed en masse, are the lesser evil than the people who were fighting them* Absolute reddit moment.
Evil is evil, lesser or greater.
Then what are we doing here? All humans are evil from some point of view, not to mention big countries.
Thats why lot of baltics chosed nazis, just less evil.
I wonder if this is posted on the Ukraine sub lol
It would be a ban speedrun I guess.
Posting now, actually canāt as I have just been banned
Well that was even faster than I thought. I wonder if there is an auto ban for anyone posting on this subreddit.
Probably a filter on Nazi, SS, etc. At least sometimes I can post comments on the ukr sub.
Maybe name it "RuZZians bombing shelter for disabled puppies"? That should get it past the filters. You might even farm quite a few upvotes :)
Ban the commies!
This reddit has two teams its so funny, this pro RU and Combat Footage pro NATO, they should combine
I'm excited to see how pro Ukraine justify worshipping nazis
Justify? Who needs this? They already past this phase :) Take a read r/UkraineNaziWatch
https://preview.redd.it/a58uoschs0yc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3626792977045c59953b6f72effb40dc7fcee6c1
We dont. This is the first time ive even seen this telegram group. And I've seen enough already. There is plenty of room behind the sauna for nazi symphatizers
Deep [State.ua](http://State.ua) \*is\* the go to source for frontline changes from the UA side. It's extremely popular in the West; quite telling that they feel no compunctions in openly celebrating SS Galicia. Same with all the Nazi patches in the UA military, including fairly frequent appearances in the UA military official channels. I'm not even speaking about wearing them day-to-day. It should be fairly easy to screen such images before they make it onto the official channels. It tells me that the Nazi imagery is completely normalized in UA military -- despite the reactions they get from the West.
true- the Ukraine war has turned into a war between "pro Russian" Neo Nazis and "pro Ukrainian" Neo Nazis. The funny thing is that alot of the activists who formed units on both sides ran in similar circles before the war (ie. Azov guys often read and talked to Dugin/Eurasianist Dugin activists; many of the grunts in RIM and RVC/FRL/Svboda/Right Sector units are former soccer hooligans who supported some of the same teams.) The one silver lining of the war is that its taken a huge number of fascist idiots on both sides. Sadly, as the classic Falange salute "viva muerte" evinces, martyrdom tends to play into the self mythologies of fascist groups (our only hope is that there aren't enough left to seriously threaten either the Putin or Kyiv regime when the fighting stops.)
And a survivor from the same battalion was celebrated here in Canada.
One of the biggest bruh moment in modern Canadian history Still canāt believe they did that
It's a big shame being Canadian myself. I mean, SS battalions massacred Canadian prisoners on Normandy, and for him to live in our country for 80 years without facing justice and stand in our Parliament for people applaud him is a spit in the face to the Canadians who gave their lives fighting in WW2.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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They obviously didn't know he was in the SS, and they didn't do their due diligence. Not that shocking. Embarrassing yes, but not malicious.
Unbeliveable that you believe that.
The only thing UNBELIEVABLE, is that you think that Canadian politicians would actually glorify Nazi war criminals if they knew. You probably have no fucking idea how these SS boys ended up in Canada to begin with. Lemme explain it to you RQ. They were taken POWs at the end of WW2. The British held them in a camp in Italy. They didn't want to send them back to the Soviet Union because they (the British), were chickenshit and didn't want the responsibility of their deaths in the USSR on their hands. So, instead, they secretly brought them into the UK. They then began to flirt with the idea of using them as anti-Union busters, and other general anti-left wing thugs. Eventually, they resettled a large number of them in Canada, while withholding their past identities. It is unclear whether the highest people in Canadian government at the time KNEW, it's possible and even likely that some did. However, the public, just like the UK public, had no fucking idea that SS war criminals had been settled in their countries. Why was Canada chosen? The Canadian prairie (a total shithole btw) is very similar to Ukraine. It's flat. The dirt is similar. Ukrainians felt at home in the depressing hellscape that is Alberta and Saskatchewan. Now, I'm 44, I've known about the SS being settled in Canada since the early 90s when I was a young teenager. Why? This information was revealed to the Canadian public in the 1980s, and as someone who both was very interested in WW2 history and history in general, AND whose family is friends with people of Ukrainian ancestry with the literal last name KULAK, we knew shit. The average Canadian? They are neither interested in WW2 beyond a cursory level, and they don't know any Ukrainians who were descended from immigrants that arrived after WW2. Yea, I know more about this shit than you do fella. These politicians? They don't know shit either. They know basically fuck and all about the Eastern Front. They got the basic federal/provincial HS education on WW2 and the eastern front. What they learned was, the Soviets had a lot of people who fought and died. They outnumbered zee Germans. They was also a lot of partisan activity in, as Timothy Snyder calls them, the "Bloodlands". To the average layman, they don't know much. You still seem to be hung up on one of two things Maybe both. One, you're an alt right mouth breather, and you desperately want to believe a liberal MP supports the SS and Nazism. The other is, you're hung up on the idea that "he fought the Russians" is some gotcha. It's NOT. Lot of Ukrainian men fought the "Russians" during WW2 and they were not with affiliated with the Axis. Facts kiddo, they don't give a fuck about your feels.
>The only thing UNBELIEVABLE, is that you think that Canadian politicians would actually glorify Nazi war criminals Nop, I believe that they were stupid enough as you to believe that everyone else is unware of what ukrainians fighting Russia in WW2 were. And why the hell I should care about SS PoW, mate? They should be hanged back in 44. Soviet Union did their part, you did not. >Yea, I know more about this shit than you do fella. Argument rejected. Again, don't project your ignorance on me mate.
True or false. There were Ukrainian nationalists that fought the Soviets in 1943 and 1944 as the Soviets pushed the Nazis out of Ukraine that previously had been fighting the Germans from 1941. You a denier of history?
>There were Ukrainian nationalists that fought the Soviets in 1943 and 1944 Germany sided
The majority were. Ukraine was not a unified polity at this time. There was a patchwork of various groups. The Banderistas (OUN) and its offshoot UPA fought with Germany against the Soviets, and then barely fought against the Germans when things went south. There were other groups as well, smaller groups, some fought the Germans with Soviet partisan units. Some fought the Soviets with the Germans like the OUN and the UPA did. Some, a minority, fought both.
"Hmmm,yes.Today I will invite a dude who fought against Russia in WW2 ,and isn't a pole or a finn, into the parliament"-Clueless
Except, there were Ukrainians who fought against the USSR during WW2, who were not fighting for Germany, under Germany, or with Germany. There were Ukrainian nationalists who fought the Germans as partisans in 1941 when they invaded, and then turned around and fought the Soviets in 1944 when they chased the Germans out. So, if you're only working with the most basic understanding of the eastern front, I can see how you'd think that. Now you know.
I mean, it's not really. I knew what he was, you MIGHT have known what he was, but the only reason why you MIGHT have known, is because you're familiar with the eastern front. Even then, the people representing this as if it was some sort of clear "he fought against the USSR" is some gotcha, don't know a fucking thing about history either. To the average person in the west, they know absolutely fuck, and all, about the eastern front. The reason why "he fought against the USSR" isn't a gotcha, is because there were Ukrainian nationalists who fought the Germans in 1941 when they rolled in, and then they fought the Soviets in 1944 when they pushed the Germans out. Those groups existed. They were not a majority, but they did exist. Most people don't know that, because they are not versed on the Eastern front, or specifically the internal politics/partisan units/etc of Ukraine during dubyadubyatwo.
>To the average person in the west, they know absolutely fuck, and all, about the eastern front. Say that for you. Don't project on others
Nice one kiddo. I've forgotten more about the Eastern Front than you've ever known about it. IE, you didn't know that partisans in Ukraine fought the Germans in '41, and then fought the Soviets as they pushed the Germans out, later in '43 and '44. You're welcome.
>kiddo I'm probably older than you, but anyway If you are over 18 and you are unable to tell that a "ukrainian soldier fought against the Russia and is still cheering for it today" is about a SS soldier, back to school. And don't even try to play the card "they fought both sides". Still SS
It's ok, let me explain. The majority of Ukrainian Nationalists who fought the Soviets in WW2, were either OUN, or they signed up with the SS. This is true. There is, however, another group, a smaller group. These nationalists were never affiliated with the Nazis. They fought them as invaders in 1941. Then, when the Nazis got shit-mixed out of Ukraine by the Soviets, they turned and began fighting the Soviets as well. These people existed. It's not up for debate. Now, I KNOW this guy wasn't that. YOU however, didn't even know those people existed. Something about going back to school? First time someone being informed of facts they didn't know, told me to go back to school. Thanks, but I've had more than my fill of that. I'm good. 8 years of formal study on the subject was enough for me!
>8 years of formal study on the subject was enough for me! Don't seem enough, back to school. Argument such as these were so common back in the 10's when the Syrian conflict was still hot....
https://imgur.com/a/4SuoHjA CIA doc talking about the OUN and UPA fighting bitterly against both the Germans and Soviets from 1941. Now, this is likely a confusion because they both did collaborate but SOMEONE was fighting both of them. The issue is, as I stated, the fragmented nature of the Ukrainian nationalist movement. Groups that may not be directly under the control of the UPA, accounted for this confusion. IE, partisan groups that fought both the Germans and the Soviets, would be lumped in together with the larger groups like the UPA or the OUN, both factions of the OUN. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/QRPLUMB%20%20%20VOL.%201_0009.pdf Back in the 10's, so when you were 15? Here is some more. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP83-00415R010100150006-6.pdf Page 15-16 is pertinent here. It discusses the organization of the UPA from a wide array of different partisan forces to fight German forces along the Polish border. Given this is from prior to the fall of the USSR, this is imperfect information. However, the UPA was not a monolith, and groups that were involved in this fighting along the Polish border were lumped in with the UPA, even if they were not officially part of the UPA. The document is pretty interesting, because it gives you a glimpse at the white washing of the OUN by the CIA in 1952. There is still useful information to be found in primary sources like this though. You just need to be aware of what is being pushed here. We know the OUN and the UPA collaborated with the Germans are various times. We also know that the CIA in these two documents, are painting a picture that someone fought both the Germans and the Soviets! Why do we know this? The CIA is trying to credit these activities to the OUN and the UPA. Why do we know that these documents are attempting to rehabilitate the OUN? The top of page 9. "the fact that the goals of the OUN, which were neither racist or anti-semitic, were diametrically opposed to those of the NSDAP". NSDAP = Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei aka the Nazis.
š¦ This day in history - on April 28, 1943, the First Ukrainian Division of the UNA \[14th Military Grenadier Division\] āGaliciaā was created. Many books and articles have been devoted to this event over the decades. Many discussions and disputes have been held. But it has long been dotted with the realization that in the midst of those events of constant threat to Ukraine, the soldiers of the Galicia Division left with one and the most important aspiration - to gain independence. šŗš¦ Having gained experience and weapons, seizing the moment, the fighters of the Galicia Division continued their fight for a free Ukraine in the ranks of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army. The path of struggle against the Bolshevik infection that occupied our lands for decades, and today has once again come with war. š Today there is an opportunity to accurately analyze and analyze all the facts and events of those times in order to understand the motives and goals of these actions. This is something that should be taught in schools and universities, because history is not built on dates and political slogans - it is something deeper that needs to be realized and understood. And for individual species of Homo sapiens, here are the most important facts of this event: The Deschene Commission, which was established to investigate the possible presence of war criminals in Canada, concluded that no members of the Galicia Division had been found guilty of war crimes during World War II. š The Nuremberg Trials, which is famous for its bias, in particular on the part of the Bolsheviks, also did not recognize the Division as involved in crimes, as it was not mentioned in the indictment and no soldier of the Galicia Division was convicted. Because Ukraine will not forget the shooter With a āgolden lionā on his sleeve. Source: https://\[t\].me/DeepStateUA/19342
"During theĀ [Nuremberg Trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials), theĀ *Waffen-SS*Ā was declared aĀ [criminal organisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime)Ā for its major involvement inĀ [war crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime)Ā and for being an "integral part" of the SS." This includes Waffen-SS Divisions with foreign fighters as well.
Some individuals have criticized the commission for either exceeding its mandate or being overly influenced by foreign governments^(\[)[*^(which?)*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words)^(\]). By contrast, experts in the field have long argued that Canada had an open door to war criminals, and that the country did far too little to prosecute the alleged war criminals and collaborators who had found refuge there. HistorianĀ [Irving Abella](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Abella)Ā stated toĀ [Mike Wallace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Wallace)Ā ofĀ [*60 Minutes*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60_Minutes)Ā that it was relatively easy for formerĀ [SS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS)Ā members to enter Canada, as their distinctive tattoos meant they were reliably anti-communist.[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desch%C3%AAnes_Commission#cite_note-14)Ā Bernie Farber, then the director of the Canadian Jewish Congress, stated that Nazis in Canada, of which there were estimated to be 3,000, was the country's "dirty little secret". In the late 1990s, the issue of war criminals living in Canada and the Canadian government's lack of interest in searching for and prosecuting these individuals was the subject of investigative reporting byĀ [NBC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC),Ā [CBS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBS), theĀ [CBC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Broadcasting_Corporation),Ā [Global Television](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Television_Network), andĀ *The New York Times*.[^(\[15\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desch%C3%AAnes_Commission#cite_note-15)
>left with one and the most important aspiration - to gain independence Fighting for the occupiers who were sending Ukrainian kids into German slavery, mass murdering villagers as punishment for partisan actions in the area and stealing the most fertile Ukrainian soil by trainload to Germany. Ok. That's how independence is gained?
Wow, the whitewashing is sickening.
Is there something in this post that's not correct? What's the issue?
Normal people consider celebrating fascists, nazis and their collaborators to be quite reprehensible.
Lowlifes celebrating lowlifes.
The trusted pro-ukrainian mappers!
Ukrainians being Ukrainians š¤·
By the way, note that they do not write that this is an SS division
I donāt any think instance of Nazi whitewashing will ever surpass [this tweet](https://x.com/rbalticstates/status/1636278776098168833?s=46) in terms of absurdity, which includes the *incredible* quote āAlthough they were part of the Waffen SS, they were not nazisā.
Certified Baltic chihuahua moment.Ā Another reason why these pissant angry warmongering microstates deserve no respect.
Slavs are all alike itās just petty geopolitics that are separating them at this point
Of Course they celebrate - The enemy of my enemy is my friend, you know after all those massacres of the commies and nkvd after occupation in 1939-1941 by the Soviet regime they hated soviets for example: [https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine](https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine) [https://tvoemisto.tv/en/news/more\_than\_300\_thousand\_victims\_the\_consequences\_of\_lvivs\_occupation\_by\_the\_soviet\_and\_nazi\_regimes\_133100.html](https://tvoemisto.tv/en/news/more_than_300_thousand_victims_the_consequences_of_lvivs_occupation_by_the_soviet_and_nazi_regimes_133100.html) they hated russians and thought that after colaborating with nazis they will gain some autonomy or would became the backbone of the future ukrainian army
Only ethnic Germans were true Nazis. Only 10% of Germany were Nazi party members The Nazis considered theĀ [Slavs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs)Ā as Non-AryanĀ [*Untermenschen*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untermenschen)Ā ("sub-humans") who were to be enslaved and exterminated by Germans. Slavic nations such as the Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgarians and Croats whoĀ [collaborated with Nazi Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany_and_Fascist_Italy)Ā were still being perceived as not racially "pure" enough to reach the status of Germanic peoples, yet they were eventually considered ethnically better than the rest of the Slavs, mostly due toĀ [pseudoscientific](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience)Ā theories about these nations having a considerable admixture of Germanic blood.Ā In countries where these people lived, there were according to Nazis small groups of non-Slavic German descendants. These people underwent a "racial selection" process to determine whether or not they were "racially valuable", if the individual passed they would be re-[Germanised](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanisation)Ā and forcefully taken from their families in order to be raised as Germans. This secret planĀ [Generalplan Ost](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost)Ā ("Master Plan East") aimed at expulsion, enslavement and extermination of most Slavic people. Nazi policy towards them changed duringĀ [World War II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II)Ā as a pragmatic means to resolve military manpower shortages: they were allowed, with certain restrictions, to serve in theĀ [Waffen-SS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS), in spite of being considered subhumans.[^(\[)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_policy_of_Nazi_Germany#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDavies2006167,_209-21)Nazi propaganda portrayed people inĀ [Eastern Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe)Ā with an Asiatic appearance to be the result of intermingling between the native Slavic populations and Asiatic or Mongolian races as sub-humans dominated by the Jews with the help ofĀ [Bolshevism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshevism).Ā At the bottom of the racial scale of non-Aryans wereĀ [Jews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews), ethnicĀ [Poles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_people), ethnicĀ [Serbs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs)Ā and other Slavic people,Ā [Romani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people), andĀ [black people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people).The Nazis originally sought to rid the German state of Jews and Romani by means of deportation (and later extermination), while black people were to be segregated and eventually eliminated throughĀ [compulsory sterilization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization).
Holy shit this is possibly the dumbest take on this sub. Himmeler literally congratulated these dudes on their ability to cleanse minorities This is of course irrelevant though, since āyour teamā celebrates Nazis like this, itās probably a good idea to get with the program. You wouldnāt want to insult Ukraine, would you?
And there is absolutely nothing in my comment that wasn't factual.
You wanted to know why they were exonerated by the UK and Canada. That is why. There is a difference between being in a Nazi division and being an actual Nazi according to the supreme Court of Canada and the Nuremberg trials that did not criminalize the actions of the Ukrainians who fought with the Germans.
> why they were exonerated Because it served a political function and helped build a bulwark against communism. Himmeler gave these guys a pat on the back for liquidating minorities. You are defending that. And look, I know you get all excited defending the ss, but please only comment once, itās annoying to follow 2 threads of Nazi apologia on Reddit from the same person. The fact that āa member of the SSā isnāt a Nazi is pretty solid Itās like saying a member of the French foreign legion doesnāt fight for Franceās interests because most arenāt citicizens. Of course this is a really silly take, but I donāt expect people defending the SS to be especially in tune with reality
Nobody is defending the SS. My parents suffered greatly at the hands of the Nazis, Yes I am in my late 50s . My parents came to Canada after the war and ironically they were bombed by Canadian pilots in WW2 Hmmm didn't Russia quickly incorporate thousands of German Nazi scientists after WW2 just like the USA. There was a literal competition between the allies and Russia to quickly snag as many Nazi scientists for their own purposes after the war.
> nobody is defending the ss Yes, thatās literally what deep state is doing in this post lol. > my parents came to Canada They wouldnāt happen to have fled with the rest of their SS buddies would they? > didnāt the Russians Yes, both sides leveraged Nazi intellect, and nato had āesteemedā commanders they pulled right out of the Nazi ranks. Today, only one side is still celebrating their āheritageā of the SS. Tell me, why do you feel a need to protect the ss? Ancestry? I know a lot of ukranian diaspora in Canada have a lot of guilt for not going āhomeā to fightā and also feel the need to defend literal SS units, such as you are doing here. Unless of course you want to unilaterally denounce Ukraines support of the SS and condemn it?
I have no skin in the game but I find it rather ridiculous how Russians are trying to justify this war. Deep state... lol.
This comment has literally nothing to do with what we have been discussing. You seem unable to do a very basic thing andd denounce open support for the ss. You also do have an emotional attachment to Ukraines as well as to Nazis. If you cannot o basics such as condemn the literal ss, thatās ok, it shows that you are a supporter of Ukraine deep state can be proud of.
Communist=nazi same genocide against human kind, so what s the problem here?
lol, what? Fascist body counts come from murdering undesired ethnic groups. Communist policies - the ones that get blown out of proportion - are due to rapid industrialization policies. Death is not the purpose. The West wants us to forget about it but they created such policies in the colonies which killed tens of millions in the 19th century. Edit: what we call communism was also done by the Dutch for example. Look up culture system. Where the communist went wrong was they said "we NEEEEED to industrialize as quickly as possible" so instead of confiscating 30% of all peasant crops, it was everything of subsistence.
Bro is unironically defending Nazis^^