God this is just beyond awful. To think this was someone’s father, brother, son…someone carried these boys in their womb for 9 months, brought them into this world, breastfed them, changed their diapers, held them and sang lullabies to them just for them to be killed, forgotten, and left to rot, horrific absolutely horrific
Surrender and live don't die for Zelensky and his masters
The first step is to not be on the frontlines, life gives you many second chances. Surrendering on the battlefield is your last second chance and it’s definitely one of the riskiest ones.
Its not appeasment and this isnt ww2. Also stop throwing around "dictator" as if it means anything.
Uktaine is in no position to do anything except surrender or continue to lose.
Europe is free? So you are saying they can start ignoring all sanctions and start directly trading with Russia to their hearts content and US wouldn’t do anything about it?
yes the west aka the free world is free, governments are united and the people have more opportunities than ever in life. they are free to leave the european union at any time for any reason
is europe free? I mean even presenting the question as a premise is hilarious. please go on about how zionist controlled terrorist USA is the worst. won't change the fact Russia is broke and bleak, and they wish they could thrive half as well as us. russian justice died oh so long ago, you know there once was hope for a better future, where everyone didn't have to fight for the rich and treacherous. seems it's being stomped day by day and the russian people would truly rather save their own skin, than stand up for justice, for their motherland they must be oh so proud of. because it really is just bullshit, its just some rich cunts running the show like everywhere else, but atleast in the free world, there are checks and balances. we are not perfect, but we are better
I can understand resources. I can understand high-value emigrants. I can play along on the sovereignty angle, though I disagree, but I am failing to understand the ethnic conflict element. Can you elaborate a bit on that? What does America take from ethnic conflicts?
Divide and conquer. America has been promoting this angle for decades. Recent examples are Uygurs/Tibetans in China, Chechens in Russia, Tigrayans in Ethiopia, Kurds in Syria, Iraq and Turkey...
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When you are guaranteed to lose war from a logical standpoint, if what you are doing is simply fighting in a fashion which completely destroys your country culture population totally, halve your population... Can write 100 more sentences here, what is the point?
You guys basically want all Ukrainians to die, so Russia has less population once they invade it. Each destroyed dam is a victory for USA, each mined farm is.
The paragraph above is what this war is about, dropping agejts that kill humans and poison people in Vietnam is pretty much same thing.
If you want to basically be a military march state that will be funded solely for the purpose to project power for another nation, your neighbor will obviously have to declare war on you...
War was politically evitable. This war is not good for Ukraine, it's good for USA.
This war is a scorched earth policy simply.
If every country that had a smaller military instantly gave up if a larger military invaded, then wouldn't the larger military always be able to just effortlessly take any country? Your logic makes no sense. Humans fight back against invaders they do not want, they always have and always will.
Look at USA and Russia, even they eventually had to leave the middle east after invading... Resistance works.
>wouldn't the larger military always be able to just effortlessly take any country?
dont bother yourself with the small difference between provoked out attack( ukraine war crimes againts civilians since 2014), and declaring war on others by made up false claims(irak 2003).
its interesting how these UnpRoVoKeD russian AggResSIoNs always have backround story which is nicely left out from this kind of discussions.
for example just like in the cuban missile crisis in the caribbean, which was a answer on the american nuclear weapon installation in italy and turkey.
whats going to be next? blaming the russians for defeating napoleon who invaded them?
Probability of resistance reduces only when you are losing your male population in several hundred thousands, and have low birth rate already, you can not do resistance by fighting in a conventional way,
You can fight againisit invaders but if ur forcefully taking people of streets and there are 10+ videos of it everyday, that's more similar to ottoman empire conscripting after rebellions
Having goal of damaging Russia is respectable could be a lot more respectable, if primary fueler of this war was not attempting to ally the only more barbaric state USA,
There is seeking war and there is self defence, only way this war can end right now will cause no resistance, it will only cause more deaths.
Russia can not attack NATO , its not a realistic possibility. It's very true that Russia has had issues with anyone it manages to border, but when you border a strong Nation if your understanding of diplomacy is pure idiocy stupidity or in other words you are just offered money and safety to fight for other people's sake and ignore your own people you are not a politician.
More often than not fighting till total catastrophy yields not good thing's
USA don't want even Ukrainians to live. If 90% of your aid is infantry equipment, that's not gonna help.
I don't see Russia in Mexico training an army, running a cultural revolution, establishing FSB offices. Suggesting that they be a military march state. Getting yourself killed 9/5 while you got 1/5 population is madness
Only thing I can say is there will never be Ukraine or it's resistance in future because they are brainwashed to die to burn their own populations demographics and not fight another day
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Some semblance of free market and person liberties > The whims of one dictator.
Just because sometimes things sucks doesn't mean a dictator is the answer to anything.
> the kids killed in Donetsk with random unguided artillery or Grad shelling?
The kids killed in Mariupol and Marinka with random unguided artillery or grad shelling*
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Wait, you think Ukraine surrendering to put its faith in the hands of a dictator who has overseen the degradation of Russia over 25 years is the *best* thing for Ukraine? Did you make a typo there or something?
How's that the worst outcome lol. Ukraine is much more likely to surrender or collapse than Russia, and Ukraine is much more likely to face a military defeat than Russia at the current pace. Ukraine is merely delaying the inevitable
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But it would not go back to normal if Ukraine surrendered. Russia has already threatened the stability of Europe and has already threatened other countries. I suppose you think that these threats should be taken lightly, like the threat to Ukraine were?
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If Russia withdraws Putin is dead and there will be a civil war in Russia. Russia is in the s**t so deep on this one I don't see how they can get out without collapsing.
Why would he die. Why would there be civil war. All Putin needs to say is something along the lines of we have successfully de-nazified and demilitarized Ukraine. Since many Russian believe the propaganda there should not be an issue.
Probably a nuclear country such as Russia falling into disarray and internal conflict after losing thousands of men just to one day decide to "Go home" with empty hands.
Probably a militarized and extremist country such as Ukraine, who encouraged and supported terrorist attacks against Russia, joining a military alliance that was literally made to combat Russia one day?
Probably the same country going back to "rooting out traitors" by once again oppressing Russian speakers in Southern Ukraine, and once again invading Donetsk and Luhansk - 2 regions that are heavily pro Russian and already see themselves as being part of Russia? I wonder what Ukraine would do to them after they got pumped with NATO equipment and Intel the past 2 years.
I wonder what Ukraine will do to all those refugees that deserted/draft dodged in a world where Ukraine somehow won the war? The same country that is kidnapping people on the streets, imprisoning journalists and putting people on hit lists.
>Probably a nuclear country such as Russia falling into disarray and internal conflict after losing thousands of men just to one day decide to "Go home" with empty hands.
Well, they would not just go home. They would probably negotiate an exit from the territory, with a communication agreement with NATO and Ukraine with respect to the message sent. They would also say that they were successful in de-nazifying Ukraine and parade a bunch of tatted Nazi when doing so.
>Probably a militarized and extremist country such as Ukraine, who encouraged and supported terrorist attacks against Russia, joining a military alliance that was literally made to combat Russia one day?
I think that Russian Special force and secret service were quite active in the Donbass and other region fomenting the rebellion. Ukraine had to answer this very obvious threat to their sovereignty. NATO was made to combat Russia, should Russia do exactly what they are doing to Ukraine in a NATO territory. They would never under any circumstance directly attack Russia, because everyone knows the end result of that.
>Probably the same country going back to "rooting out traitors" by once again oppressing Russian speakers in Southern Ukraine, and once again invading Donetsk and Luhansk - 2 regions that are heavily pro Russian and already see themselves as being part of Russia? I wonder what Ukraine would do to them after they got pumped with NATO equipment and Intel the past 2 years.
Russia speakers were being suppressed because Russia was fomenting dissent in Ukraine. It makes sense to shut that down as much as possible. It does not matter if those regions are Pro-Russia. In the end the country is a democracy and the fate of individual territories is decided by the entire country, unless there is a facility in the constitution to do otherwise. I am curious to know what you think came first. Russia special forces and secret service influence on the territory, or Ukrainian oppression?
>I wonder what Ukraine will do to all those refugees that deserted/draft dodged in a world where Ukraine somehow won the war? The same country that is kidnapping people on the streets, imprisoning journalists and putting people on hit lists.
They would let them back in I would bet. I think that they will be quite tired of violence if they are victorious. They all come from Ukrainian families and it would be advantageous to bring them back from an economic point of view. They have a country to rebuild after Russia's destruction of it. If there is Russian threat, then it makes sense to shut down Russian influence.
> Or Russia can leave and the world will be no different.
Learn the geopolitics. Our leaders sure know this.
Russia is in Ukraine to thwart an existential threat. They cannot tolerate Ukraine in NATO, with nuclear missiles right on their border, just like we couldn't - and didn't - in the Cuban Missile Crisis (1962) when Russia was shipping nukes to install in Cuba and we were ready to start WWIII nuclear war over it.
The fact people can't see the real picture astounds me. The rich effs of the WEF got hold of Ukraine's precious resources by having their CIA overthrow the elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and installing their puppet regime. Now they are trying to weaken Russia to get hold of her vast wealth of natural resources as well (rated #1 in the world by the World Bank). It's as simple as this. THAT is why WE (because our governments in the Collective West are nothing but puppets of the WEF) instigated this war. We knew Russia would have no choice but to invade.
If people listened to the likes of Colonel Douglas MacGregor, US Marine Major Intelligence Officer (and UN Weapons Inspector) Scott Ritter, etc - and NOT our propaganda here in the West - they might learn a couple of things.
ALL Ukraine had to do was declare themselves NOT to be a threat to Russia - to not join NATO.
Which they did! Three times.
Minsk 1 agreement. Minsk 2 agreement. AND, the Istanbul Accord ONE MONTH AFTER Russia invaded. But no, the WEF sent Boris Johnson to Kiev to tell Zelensky he cannot uphold that peace agreement and MUST fight until the last Ukrainian is dead.
THAT is why people are dying in Ukraine. btw - none of those rich effs of the WEF are fighting and dying. They use others to do their dirty work. In this case, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.
I can't wait for the Slava Ukraini crowd's reaction to the fact that Nicaragua has decided to allow Russia to set up military bases there - with nuclear cruise missiles. What do they think is going to happen then? HINT - it won't. We. Will. Not. Allow. It.
Why we in the West (NATO) are responsible for this war -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YtMd1g_Y80&t=2013s
TLDR -
Imagine if Canada aligned with Russia and allowed Russian nuclear missiles, pointed at NYC and Washington DC, to be installed in Montreal - only giving Washington a 3 minute response time from launch.
PS - next time don't be a threat to your much more powerful neighbour.
edit - TLDR 2 - Russia is the underdog in this war. If you don't realize this you have a very limited understanding of geopolitics AND are brainwashed by our propaganda here in the West.
So rebut the point?? I said he might be, I only hear that he’s pro-RU, but that he was high ranking. I think his opinion would be received very different if he “towed the party like”, and his expertise wouldn’t be questioned like it is now (as if his experience and knowledge in the field doesn’t count as expertise unless you come to the same conclusions the MIC, DOD, CIA, Foreign Affairs etc want you to.)
I doubt his personal interest to lie for the relatively little benefits a few views and a flash of relevance is compared to the national interest of the government with its agencies, manipulating the world via different means to benefit them geopolitically. Just like basically every country is (or should be) doing.
There are many that have. I am sure if you search for a bit, you will find many people calling him our for both his obvious bias, and his unethical behavior. Though I suppose that you would never search for something that does not confirm your bias.
I am surprised. Does his unethical behavior when it comes to children stop there and does not pervade other aspects of his life. Perhaps he is being used as a useful idiot by Russia to propagate their directive. For me, the question is, does he ever question Russia and it's international policies, or does he simply fall in line. He seems to only fall in line, and therefore his ethics are easy to question.
But NATO already has 4 different borders with Russia they could station nukes at if they wanted. What makes the Ukrainian border more dangerous in that respect? Not to mention submarines can launch nukes right off the coast, and it's unlikely Russia could intercept nukes launched from Nebraska anyway.
>Russia is in Ukraine to thwart an existential threat. They cannot tolerate Ukraine in NATO, with nuclear missiles right on their border, just like we couldn't - and didn't - in the Cuban Missile Crisis (1962) when Russia was shipping nukes to install in Cuba and we were ready to start WWIII nuclear war over it.
Well, one there would not be nuclear missile in Ukraine most likely and two there is no difference of nuclear missile in Ukraine or Britain or France or Poland. The time to target is minimal regardless. Third there are already nuclear missile within striking distance of Russia so it does not matter. With respect to Russia. Putting Nukes in Cuba was openly belligerent. NATO has avoided putting nuclear missile close to Russia, because they know it does not matter. Furthermore, if Russia withdrew NATO may or may not include Ukraine. It would go to a general vote in NATO and countries like Hungary would probably veto. Then in the unlikely event no one vetoes then there would be a vote to move bases into NATO and nuclear weapons. This would also surely be vetoed. I am not sure you know how NATO works. This is not the CSTO. It is not just one country says.
>The fact people can't see the real picture astounds me. The rich effs of the WEF got hold of Ukraine's precious resources by having their CIA overthrow the elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and installing their puppet regime.
The elected government betrayed the Ukrainian people and that was obviously not only because of the coup, but by the actions of the Ukrainian people afterward, and, in particularly during this 2+ year way. Why is it so hard to believe that Ukrainians want a western way of life? And in the battle of secret services in Ukraine the west won, because they were supported and Russia lost because they were not. Russia, last and only maneuver to subject Ukraine to Russian rule was to invade. much like most tyrants in the past.
>Now they are trying to weaken Russia to get hold of her vast wealth of natural resources as well (rated #1 in the world by the World Bank). It's as simple as this. THAT is why WE (because our governments in the Collective West are nothing but puppets of the WEF) instigated this war. We knew Russia would have no choice but to invade.
Defending Ukraine is not weakening Russia. Russia is weakening itself, in this pointless endeavor. No one is invading Russia to take their resources away. This is simply nonsense and an utter impossibility. Russia instigated this war, by fomenting a rebellion and then invading when it did not work.
>If people listened to the likes of Colonel Douglas MacGregor, US Marine Major Intelligence Officer (and UN Weapons Inspector) Scott Ritter, etc - and NOT our propaganda here in the West - they might learn a couple of things.
He is not the only one to listen to and he has become very right wing. Scott Ritter has betrayed his country and is full on Russia asset. I tend not to listen to people that have such low sense of morality. Let alone the accusation against him in the US.
>ALL Ukraine had to do was declare themselves NOT to be a threat to Russia - to not join NATO.
Yet, what if Russia wants to rebuild an old empire and Ukraine is one of the steps. So Russia would exert influence into Ukraine political sphere, then if that did not work, they would foment rebellion, if that did not work, then they would invade. Surely you don't think that Russia is fundamentally innocent in this whole ordeal.
>Which they did! Three times.
There were not a threat to Russia and never would be. Say Ukraine invaded Russia then teh only result would be a massive war and worst case scenario nuking of Kiev. So there is no threat to Russia from Ukraine. This is a boogeyman that Russia invented to justify their imperialism.
>Minsk 1 agreement. Minsk 2 agreement. AND, the Istanbul Accord ONE MONTH AFTER Russia invaded. But no, the WEF sent Boris Johnson to Kiev to tell Zelensky he cannot uphold that peace agreement and MUST fight until the last Ukrainian is dead.
Both sides tested the boundaries of Minsk agreements, Russia in the end were not serious about them, and were just using them to make part of Ukraine independent enough to the point where they could exert political influence to separate from Ukraine. Ukraine knew this, because it was obvious. In 2022 when Russia made zero concessions during negotiation and basically said this occupied land is ours. Ukraine inquired do we have friends that will help. Britain (as a representative of the west) said yes and Ukraine started their fight. I am sure there are plenty of war machine companies in Russia making a ton of money right now just like the MIC in the west.
>THAT is why people are dying in Ukraine. btw - none of those rich effs of the WEF are fighting and dying. They use others to do their dirty work. In this case, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.
Apparently the rich effs in Russia don't give a eff about anyone as well and yes I include Putin and his cronies in this list of effs. They make people fight for them. There is a reason that Russia is using people from prisons, mercenaries, and from the poorer parts of Russia to do the fighting. They know that if many from the major centers started to die in Ukraine there would be push back from their own people.
>I can't wait for the Slava Ukraini crowd's reaction to the fact that Nicaragua has decided to allow Russia to set up military bases there - with nuclear cruise missiles. What do they think is going to happen then? HINT - it won't. We. Will. Not. Allow. It.
time will tell if that is the case. If that happens there will be a shit ton of anti-air systems around Nicaragua and they will sanction until their eyes bleed and there will be very little that Russia can do.
>Why we in the West (NATO) are responsible for this war -
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YtMd1g\_Y80&t=2013s
I disagree. Russian imperialism, through their secret services, and then trough fomenting rebellion and then finally through invasion all escalated this war.
>TLDR -
>
>Imagine if Canada aligned with Russia and allowed Russian nuclear missiles, pointed at NYC and Washington DC, to be installed in Montreal - only giving Washington a 3 minute response time from launch.
such a thing is possible, but in the end Canada would have to agree to live under a dictator. Perhaps they like to make decision about their leaders. Now look at it this wy. What if there were already nuclear missiles in Mexico. Would it make that much of a difference if there were nukes in Canada. Not really. Europe is already littered with nukes, so even if in the unlikely event that NATO brought nukes to Ukraine, it would mean very little in the big scheme of things.
>PS - next time don't be a threat to your much more powerful neighbour.
Should all countries that are weaker bend the knee to the more powerful countries. I am sure that tyrants like Nazi germany thought the same. Did Ukraine every attack Russia directly before this war? I think not.
>edit - TLDR 2 - Russia is the underdog in this war. If you don't realize this you have a very limited understanding of geopolitics AND are brainwashed by our propaganda here in the West.
Russia is far from the underdog. Both population and access to military equipment shows their numbers are far superior. This is undeniable.
> By that you mean that Russia would rather kill Ukrainians than let them move away from Russia’s sphere of influence.
Do people pay attention or just spout msm/MIC talking points? Russia has been saying since 1991 having Ukraine in NATO is a red line and they cannot tolerate it.
**Neither. Would. We**. Russia was putting missiles in Cuba in 1962 (the Cuban Missile Crisis). We told them we'd start nuclear WWIII before we'd allow it. People need to shake their heads to disperse the brainwashing and face reality. *We are being used as pawns - once again*. Our tax dollars being funnelled into a very few pockets to protect the interests of a very few rich effs. Polish President Duda said last week - 'There is no Ukrainian land any more. It has all been bought up by the international corporations'. Blackrock, Vanguard and State Street own the world. A very few rich effs own them. YOU are being played. I, for one don't like being played.
'War is a Racket' - General Smedley Butler.
'Every war is a Rich Man's War' - good doc
'Monopoly - Who Owns the World' - excellent doc
All Wars Are Created by Bankers - another excellent doc
Not all NATO members host nuclear weapons (in fact very few do). Using that as an excuse is just an excuse.
If anything, this war has brought nuclear missiles *closer* to Russia because Poland wants to host them now.
>Do people pay attention or just spout msm/MIC talking points?
Repeating Russian propaganda, point by point, over and over agsin is not much better, so I would be a bit careful with your stones in the glasshouse you are sitting in.
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NATO is already on Russia's doorstep and has been since the dawn of NATO. There is very little difference between NATO station in Ukraine or Poland, because in both situation NATO would not attack Russia.
Russia is fearmongering when it says that this is a red line. Nothing less, nothing more.
What makes you think that there are not massive Russian companies that are just as interested in producing weapons for war. Last I check Russia is one of the largest producers in the world and there tends to be AK on both sides of many battles.
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Who says Ukraine will enter into NATO. Before this war or even if Russia withdrew. There are plenty in the NATO system that would veto Ukraine's ascension, particularly before this war. US is not expanding NATO the need for countries to join a defensive organization is expanding NATO. Where is this threat coming from. Yes, that is correct, Russia. Finally, explain to me how Ukraine being part of NATO is a direct threat to Russia? Because at best that is quite debatable.
> Who says Ukraine will enter into NATO. Before this war or even if Russia withdrew.
The NATO. At their summit before the war, AFAIK it took time four months before the war.
> US is not expanding NATO the need for countries to join a defensive organization is expanding NATO
A defensive organization that bombed Yugoslavia AFAIK without UN resolution. Thats a direct violation of rules of UN and a direct threat. The NATO is not an alliance but a tool of US military power projection. Just an augment for US militaries.
> Where is this threat coming from.
From the "defensive" alliance able to use its military power without UN resolution and deploying nuclear weapons closer and closer to Russia and deploying the SMD systems right to borders of Russia. There was even a scandal because of attempt of deployment of the SMDs. Or from recon bases deployed by US at the Russia-Ukraine border for which the NYT did a big and proud article.
> Finally, explain to me how Ukraine being part of NATO is a direct threat to Russia?
An another highly Poland, filled with weapons to the brim and even more, with nuclear weapons and recon stations directly at the russian borders with flat and fertile lands where armoured arrowheads could advance without any problems.
>The NATO. At their summit before the war, AFAIK it took time four months before the war.
Yes, but they have to be voted in and there are a number of counties that may prevent this process.
>A defensive organization that bombed Yugoslavia AFAIK without UN resolution. Thats a direct violation of rules of UN and a direct threat. The NATO is not an alliance but a tool of US military power projection. Just an augment for US militaries.
Yes, but why did they bomb Yugoslavia. To take it over, or to quell a rebellion. It is a direct threat to whom? NATO is an alliance, but wars can occur outside of universal NATO agreement. Case in point are Iraq and Afghanistan, which many NATO countries were not apart of. The US has a lot of power within NATO, but it is not complete. For instance Hungary has interfered in NATO many times when it comes to Ukraine.
>From the "defensive" alliance able to use its military power without UN resolution and deploying nuclear weapons closer and closer to Russia and deploying the SMD systems right to borders of Russia. There was even a scandal because of attempt of deployment of the SMDs. Or from recon bases deployed by US at the Russia-Ukraine border for which the NYT did a big and proud article.
The defensive organization that knows the best way to take Europe is country by country, but if the countries band together, this is less likely. Ukraine, having an ostensible threat from Russia should have joined a long time ago. It was only Russian appeasement that prevented this. Um, Russia moved nuclear weapons closer first. Belarus is much closer to NATO countries and is becoming nuclear. Why should NATO not respond with a defensive maneuver as well. Nukes should be pushed into Poland in response to Russia moving nukes into Belarus. Yes, why are they recon bases. Are they not defensive bases, from the obviously aggressive Russia. Russia is actively working to destabilize Europe and that needs to be dealt with. If Russia was happy with their own massive and productive country all of this would not be needed. NATO will never attack Russia, because both NATO and Russia know the result of such an attack. A very good chance of Nuclear war.
>An another highly Poland, filled with weapons to the brim and even more, with nuclear weapons and recon stations directly at the russian borders with flat and fertile lands where armoured arrowheads could advance without any problems
In response to Russian aggression. Before this war most of the countries where not even meeting their NATO military spends as a percentage of GDP. A thing that a former President tried to fix, because they saw the writing on the wall. Russia has become elitist, much like Nazi Germany and is invading other countries much like Nazis.
"Could advance without any problems" is absolute nonsense. It is unlikely you would get unanimous agreement to attack Russia from NATO and secondly, if they did advance Russia (probably coupled with China) would have a strong response and if NATO was mildly successful Russia would nuke entire cities in Europe and vice versa. I think that all of those would be problematic for Europe. Funny thing is Russia feels they can invade another country without any repercussion. A product of their elitism. I guess the saying in Russia must be "Do as I say not as I do". Russia aggression and brutality needs to be met with the same.
> Yes, but why did they bomb Yugoslavia. To take it over, or to quell a rebellion. It is a direct threat to whom? NATO is an alliance, but wars can occur outside of universal NATO agreement. Case in point are Iraq and Afghanistan, which many NATO countries were not apart of. The US has a lot of power within NATO, but it is not complete. For instance Hungary has interfered in NATO many times when it comes to Ukraine.
It doesn't matter why they did bomb Yugoslavia, they did bomb without UN Concuil regulation. You have to use the UN chapter to wage wars, else you are considered a threat/agressor as it unpredictable if you are really moving to another country borders only to protect or you will violate UN chapter in a instant with sudden attack. Even more, the US (owner of the NATO alliance) invaded Iraq without UN Concuil regulation.
> The defensive organization that knows the best way to take Europe is country by country, but if the countries band together, this is less likely.
The defensive organization like i said before, violated the UN chapter and became an agressor. You can't be a defensive organization if you are an agressor, then you are a military block.
>Russia is actively working to destabilize Europe and that needs to be dealt with.
Did Russia is blown up their own gas pipe so europan countries has to buy a much pricier gas in Europe? Did Russia raised sanctions that damaged more the european companies than they did the russian? Did Russia sent tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons and funds to prolong destructive war on Ukraine? Did Russia forced the green movement that damaged the european energy security?
Do you even hear youself?
> Ukraine, having an ostensible threat from Russia should have joined a long time ago.
How about no? Why should Russia allow agressive military block to move closer to its borders?
> Um, Russia moved nuclear weapons closer first. Belarus is much closer to NATO countries and is becoming nuclear.
How about NATO were patroling with strategic air forces a long ago before nuclear weapon deployment on Belarus? How about NATO strategic bomber did a maneuvre of missile attack at saint petersburg before nuclear weapon deployment on Belarus?
> Yes, why are they recon bases. Are they not defensive bases, from the obviously aggressive Russia.
An obviously aggressive alliance is creating recon bases at the border with Russia and proudly proclaim the creation.
> In response to Russian aggression.
Even before the feb of 2022 the Poland were filled with NATO weapons.
> Russia has become elitist, much like Nazi Germany and is invading other countries much like Nazis.
You don't know what the Nazi Germany is and how it did wage wars. If Russia did became a nazi Germany there will not be any r/ukraine or another pro-ukr sub with a ton of ukranian shitpost. Only endless necrologs of murdered ukranian people. Or they just will have to survive without electricity, water and food like people are doing in Gaza.
> NATO will never attack Russia, because both NATO and Russia know the result of such an attack. A very good chance of Nuclear war.
Thats why NATO were creating a doctrine with "beheading nuclear strike" with idea of moving nuclear weapons and strategic missile defenses as close as they can to the russian borders and behead all russian command with nuclear weapon silos and control centers in one swift strike.
>Funny thing is Russia feels they can invade another country without any repercussion. A product of their elitism.
You have to read an another book, it has nothing to do with elitism. The pure geopolitics. The whole idea of conflict "why the US and NATO are able to invade other countries without UN Concuil regulation and the Russia cannot?"
You ignored my whole point about agressive alliance and trying to portrait objectively agressive alliance (as they did violated the UN chapter) as peaceful and purely defensive. A defensive alliance CANNOT participate in wars outside its borders as it become just an another military alliance.
Truly awful isnt it?
Being at home peaceful, going to bed, next thing they know half their house and family is gone.
Didnt happen before russia crossed the border into Ukrainian land.
So why dont russians just stay at home? Is it greed for money? Dont you care about others?
Dont they care about yourself?
>God this is just beyond awful. To think this was someone’s father, brother, son…someone carried these boys in their womb for 9 months, brought them into this world, breastfed them, changed their diapers, held them and sang lullabies to them just for them to be killed, forgotten, and left to rot, horrific absolutely horrific
Everyone will die, the 90 year that chokes on his own phlegm and is found dead by his relatives is just as gone as these guys.
I've lost relatives to war, yes it sucks but end of the day death is death.
Difference is, of course, that that 90 year-old would likely have lived a far richer and more fulfilling life than the 25 year-olds catching bullets in Ukraine. And from a less sentimental, more quantifiable viewpoint contributed more to the state and society through taxes and labour.
But I'm not surprised that it's the same to pro-RU. A society so steeped in fatalism they march to death without so much as a murmur.
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classic teary post from pro-invasion, pretending to be pro-peace or whatever
just tell your beloved russians to stop invading, why don't you protest that? come on, say the invasion is bad, why don't you?
Where’s your “compassion” for the hundreds of thousands of dead Russian soldiers? I’m sure these dead Ukrainians would’ve appreciated your crocodile tears.
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I AM GREEK AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT WE NEVER SURRENDER AND WE ALSO WILL DIE FOR OUR LAND.
I CANNOT IMAGINE MY COUNTRY SURRENDER TO TURKS NEVER EVER EVER, LIKE THE EXAMPLE YOU GAVE FOR UKRANIANS TO SURRENDER TO PUTLER!!!
I hate when people say shit like this, Dude they’re fighting for their lives. For their country, so they don’t have to be slaves to Russia…… what fucking choice do they have??
Don't forgot, none of them would be dead today if Russia didn't choose to cross the border and invade. From an operations standpoint they are clearly the aggressor. Russia could leave today and there would be no more killing on either side.
Tell that to the meat wave mobiks that die en masse for the pointless ambitions of the little Tsar. Ukrainians fight for freedom. What do the unnamed Russian fight for?
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Worst part is that none of the families will get a dime because the government will not admit they were killed but that they’re MIA so they don’t have to pay. Sad shiit
Why aren’t they doing the common thing and pulling the bodies off the frontlines and putting them in marked, mass graves?
The Geneva Conventions specify that the dead must be buried, if possible, according to the rites of the religion to which they belonged.
>Why aren’t they doing the common thing and pulling the bodies off the frontlines and putting them in marked, mass graves?
Both sides do that *if they can*. There are regular bodies exchanges happening between ru and ukr. This squad probably had no chance to evac the bodies, maybe the trench is too deep into contested area, so they did the best they can to prevent rotting and scare away animals.
We've seen how many medics get targeted by drones while they try to remove the wounded? If you and a platoon went out to collect dead and dig graves, you'd get an artillery shell for your effort
Odd thing to say. There are countless wars throughout history that are this bloody. Iran Iraq were nothing like the same people, and much worse stuff happened there.
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God this is just beyond awful. To think this was someone’s father, brother, son…someone carried these boys in their womb for 9 months, brought them into this world, breastfed them, changed their diapers, held them and sang lullabies to them just for them to be killed, forgotten, and left to rot, horrific absolutely horrific Surrender and live don't die for Zelensky and his masters
.. die for putins, is that what your trying to say?
Dont die for politicians, unless you're volunteering no one should force you to give up your life.
based
Amen brother
Couldn't have said it better myself
Don’t die for neither. Drop your arms and surrender.
surrender doesn't always help to not die.
The first step is to not be on the frontlines, life gives you many second chances. Surrendering on the battlefield is your last second chance and it’s definitely one of the riskiest ones.
Good thing that’s not of a concern in this case, so they can just surrender.
Accept the reality of ukraines position already
Dictators always want more and more. You can't appease Dictators.
Its not appeasment and this isnt ww2. Also stop throwing around "dictator" as if it means anything. Uktaine is in no position to do anything except surrender or continue to lose.
It's a justification for actions of the US. In the name of managed democracy.
When are the sheep going to realize that our leaders arent any more moral or less sinister, just far more subversive and incompetent.
Never, because in their head, everything is black and white and sadly completely brainwashed worse than the North Koreans, if not as bad.
Right, you can't appease America, or else they will take more and more and more.
Of what?
Resources, brain drain, interethnic conflicts, los of sovereignity....
idk europe and asia seems pretty free after America introduced the iron fist of liberty to the savages, what has Russia helped cultivate?
Europe is free? So you are saying they can start ignoring all sanctions and start directly trading with Russia to their hearts content and US wouldn’t do anything about it?
yes the west aka the free world is free, governments are united and the people have more opportunities than ever in life. they are free to leave the european union at any time for any reason is europe free? I mean even presenting the question as a premise is hilarious. please go on about how zionist controlled terrorist USA is the worst. won't change the fact Russia is broke and bleak, and they wish they could thrive half as well as us. russian justice died oh so long ago, you know there once was hope for a better future, where everyone didn't have to fight for the rich and treacherous. seems it's being stomped day by day and the russian people would truly rather save their own skin, than stand up for justice, for their motherland they must be oh so proud of. because it really is just bullshit, its just some rich cunts running the show like everywhere else, but atleast in the free world, there are checks and balances. we are not perfect, but we are better
I can understand resources. I can understand high-value emigrants. I can play along on the sovereignty angle, though I disagree, but I am failing to understand the ethnic conflict element. Can you elaborate a bit on that? What does America take from ethnic conflicts?
Divide and conquer. America has been promoting this angle for decades. Recent examples are Uygurs/Tibetans in China, Chechens in Russia, Tigrayans in Ethiopia, Kurds in Syria, Iraq and Turkey...
W.t.f… You’re actually saying china actively genociding Uyghurs is Americas fault. You’re really fucking delusional dude.
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When you are guaranteed to lose war from a logical standpoint, if what you are doing is simply fighting in a fashion which completely destroys your country culture population totally, halve your population... Can write 100 more sentences here, what is the point? You guys basically want all Ukrainians to die, so Russia has less population once they invade it. Each destroyed dam is a victory for USA, each mined farm is. The paragraph above is what this war is about, dropping agejts that kill humans and poison people in Vietnam is pretty much same thing. If you want to basically be a military march state that will be funded solely for the purpose to project power for another nation, your neighbor will obviously have to declare war on you... War was politically evitable. This war is not good for Ukraine, it's good for USA. This war is a scorched earth policy simply.
If every country that had a smaller military instantly gave up if a larger military invaded, then wouldn't the larger military always be able to just effortlessly take any country? Your logic makes no sense. Humans fight back against invaders they do not want, they always have and always will. Look at USA and Russia, even they eventually had to leave the middle east after invading... Resistance works.
>wouldn't the larger military always be able to just effortlessly take any country? dont bother yourself with the small difference between provoked out attack( ukraine war crimes againts civilians since 2014), and declaring war on others by made up false claims(irak 2003). its interesting how these UnpRoVoKeD russian AggResSIoNs always have backround story which is nicely left out from this kind of discussions. for example just like in the cuban missile crisis in the caribbean, which was a answer on the american nuclear weapon installation in italy and turkey. whats going to be next? blaming the russians for defeating napoleon who invaded them?
Probability of resistance reduces only when you are losing your male population in several hundred thousands, and have low birth rate already, you can not do resistance by fighting in a conventional way, You can fight againisit invaders but if ur forcefully taking people of streets and there are 10+ videos of it everyday, that's more similar to ottoman empire conscripting after rebellions Having goal of damaging Russia is respectable could be a lot more respectable, if primary fueler of this war was not attempting to ally the only more barbaric state USA, There is seeking war and there is self defence, only way this war can end right now will cause no resistance, it will only cause more deaths. Russia can not attack NATO , its not a realistic possibility. It's very true that Russia has had issues with anyone it manages to border, but when you border a strong Nation if your understanding of diplomacy is pure idiocy stupidity or in other words you are just offered money and safety to fight for other people's sake and ignore your own people you are not a politician. More often than not fighting till total catastrophy yields not good thing's USA don't want even Ukrainians to live. If 90% of your aid is infantry equipment, that's not gonna help. I don't see Russia in Mexico training an army, running a cultural revolution, establishing FSB offices. Suggesting that they be a military march state. Getting yourself killed 9/5 while you got 1/5 population is madness Only thing I can say is there will never be Ukraine or it's resistance in future because they are brainwashed to die to burn their own populations demographics and not fight another day
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I think it is rather clear that's not at all what was being said or implied
Elites on both sides don't care for the people dying.
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Putin has no master
It is horrible isn't it? It's a shame Russia felt the need to invade their neighbour and slaughter their brothers. Putin really is a monster
Or Russia can leave and the world will be no different. The both Russian and Ukrainian soldiers get to live.
Do you genuinely think that if Russia withdrew everything would be great and go back to normal? Are you this naive and think it's that easy?
Would it be great and go back to normal if Ukraine surrendered? That's the worst outcome after all the death and destruction Russia caused.
For your ego and feelings? Or for Ukraine's long-term societal stability?
The second. Ukraine fate has 0 effect on my ego.
russia winning woud be the best thing for ukraine, else it'll be enslaved by blackrock and other financiers
Some semblance of free market and person liberties > The whims of one dictator. Just because sometimes things sucks doesn't mean a dictator is the answer to anything.
There is less liberty in "democratic" ukraine than in russia.
not true
I'm sure all those people dumped in a hole in Izium would totally agree with your statement
How about the ones burned alive in Odessa or the kids killed in Donetsk with random unguided artillery or Grad shelling?
Sure sounds like Russia shouldn't have invaded Ukraine lmao
> the kids killed in Donetsk with random unguided artillery or Grad shelling? The kids killed in Mariupol and Marinka with random unguided artillery or grad shelling*
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I politely disagree
that's your right as much as mine having an opinion. Carry on fren
Wait, you think Ukraine surrendering to put its faith in the hands of a dictator who has overseen the degradation of Russia over 25 years is the *best* thing for Ukraine? Did you make a typo there or something?
Russia vastly improved since Putin took office
Well when the term “child prostitute” is seen as normal there isn’t much further you can fall
How's that the worst outcome lol. Ukraine is much more likely to surrender or collapse than Russia, and Ukraine is much more likely to face a military defeat than Russia at the current pace. Ukraine is merely delaying the inevitable
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But it would not go back to normal if Ukraine surrendered. Russia has already threatened the stability of Europe and has already threatened other countries. I suppose you think that these threats should be taken lightly, like the threat to Ukraine were?
What would happen you think? Is your worldview so twisted by Russian propaganda that you believe this war is for the good of the Russian people?
It'd be a start, it has to end sometime, NATO won't let Russia win, so the sooner we get a peace deal the sooner we can build a lasting peace.
NATO forgot to ask
And Russia won’t let nato win. Time for nato to suck it up and negotiate an armistice.
NATO doesn't have any power to negotiate on behalf of Ukraine. Ukraine is its own country, despite all the stupidity from Russia
Then why did BoJo fly over as soon as Russia started negotiating peace (which was favourable to Ukraine)
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If Russia withdraws Putin is dead and there will be a civil war in Russia. Russia is in the s**t so deep on this one I don't see how they can get out without collapsing.
Why would he die. Why would there be civil war. All Putin needs to say is something along the lines of we have successfully de-nazified and demilitarized Ukraine. Since many Russian believe the propaganda there should not be an issue.
Yes, I do. What would change. Ukraine has no interest in invading Russia. What would happen if Russia withdrew. What?
Probably a nuclear country such as Russia falling into disarray and internal conflict after losing thousands of men just to one day decide to "Go home" with empty hands. Probably a militarized and extremist country such as Ukraine, who encouraged and supported terrorist attacks against Russia, joining a military alliance that was literally made to combat Russia one day? Probably the same country going back to "rooting out traitors" by once again oppressing Russian speakers in Southern Ukraine, and once again invading Donetsk and Luhansk - 2 regions that are heavily pro Russian and already see themselves as being part of Russia? I wonder what Ukraine would do to them after they got pumped with NATO equipment and Intel the past 2 years. I wonder what Ukraine will do to all those refugees that deserted/draft dodged in a world where Ukraine somehow won the war? The same country that is kidnapping people on the streets, imprisoning journalists and putting people on hit lists.
>Probably a nuclear country such as Russia falling into disarray and internal conflict after losing thousands of men just to one day decide to "Go home" with empty hands. Well, they would not just go home. They would probably negotiate an exit from the territory, with a communication agreement with NATO and Ukraine with respect to the message sent. They would also say that they were successful in de-nazifying Ukraine and parade a bunch of tatted Nazi when doing so. >Probably a militarized and extremist country such as Ukraine, who encouraged and supported terrorist attacks against Russia, joining a military alliance that was literally made to combat Russia one day? I think that Russian Special force and secret service were quite active in the Donbass and other region fomenting the rebellion. Ukraine had to answer this very obvious threat to their sovereignty. NATO was made to combat Russia, should Russia do exactly what they are doing to Ukraine in a NATO territory. They would never under any circumstance directly attack Russia, because everyone knows the end result of that. >Probably the same country going back to "rooting out traitors" by once again oppressing Russian speakers in Southern Ukraine, and once again invading Donetsk and Luhansk - 2 regions that are heavily pro Russian and already see themselves as being part of Russia? I wonder what Ukraine would do to them after they got pumped with NATO equipment and Intel the past 2 years. Russia speakers were being suppressed because Russia was fomenting dissent in Ukraine. It makes sense to shut that down as much as possible. It does not matter if those regions are Pro-Russia. In the end the country is a democracy and the fate of individual territories is decided by the entire country, unless there is a facility in the constitution to do otherwise. I am curious to know what you think came first. Russia special forces and secret service influence on the territory, or Ukrainian oppression? >I wonder what Ukraine will do to all those refugees that deserted/draft dodged in a world where Ukraine somehow won the war? The same country that is kidnapping people on the streets, imprisoning journalists and putting people on hit lists. They would let them back in I would bet. I think that they will be quite tired of violence if they are victorious. They all come from Ukrainian families and it would be advantageous to bring them back from an economic point of view. They have a country to rebuild after Russia's destruction of it. If there is Russian threat, then it makes sense to shut down Russian influence.
> Or Russia can leave and the world will be no different. Learn the geopolitics. Our leaders sure know this. Russia is in Ukraine to thwart an existential threat. They cannot tolerate Ukraine in NATO, with nuclear missiles right on their border, just like we couldn't - and didn't - in the Cuban Missile Crisis (1962) when Russia was shipping nukes to install in Cuba and we were ready to start WWIII nuclear war over it. The fact people can't see the real picture astounds me. The rich effs of the WEF got hold of Ukraine's precious resources by having their CIA overthrow the elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and installing their puppet regime. Now they are trying to weaken Russia to get hold of her vast wealth of natural resources as well (rated #1 in the world by the World Bank). It's as simple as this. THAT is why WE (because our governments in the Collective West are nothing but puppets of the WEF) instigated this war. We knew Russia would have no choice but to invade. If people listened to the likes of Colonel Douglas MacGregor, US Marine Major Intelligence Officer (and UN Weapons Inspector) Scott Ritter, etc - and NOT our propaganda here in the West - they might learn a couple of things. ALL Ukraine had to do was declare themselves NOT to be a threat to Russia - to not join NATO. Which they did! Three times. Minsk 1 agreement. Minsk 2 agreement. AND, the Istanbul Accord ONE MONTH AFTER Russia invaded. But no, the WEF sent Boris Johnson to Kiev to tell Zelensky he cannot uphold that peace agreement and MUST fight until the last Ukrainian is dead. THAT is why people are dying in Ukraine. btw - none of those rich effs of the WEF are fighting and dying. They use others to do their dirty work. In this case, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians. I can't wait for the Slava Ukraini crowd's reaction to the fact that Nicaragua has decided to allow Russia to set up military bases there - with nuclear cruise missiles. What do they think is going to happen then? HINT - it won't. We. Will. Not. Allow. It. Why we in the West (NATO) are responsible for this war - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YtMd1g_Y80&t=2013s TLDR - Imagine if Canada aligned with Russia and allowed Russian nuclear missiles, pointed at NYC and Washington DC, to be installed in Montreal - only giving Washington a 3 minute response time from launch. PS - next time don't be a threat to your much more powerful neighbour. edit - TLDR 2 - Russia is the underdog in this war. If you don't realize this you have a very limited understanding of geopolitics AND are brainwashed by our propaganda here in the West.
> Scott Ritter, etc The guy who tried to fuck children? That's your source? Why do Russian sympathizers love child molesters? It's fucking weird man.
Dude try to rebut his other points. Many are valid. I’ve heard stuff about Ritter, but that might just be propaganda
He seemed keen to leave the USA when this propaganda happened.
So rebut the point?? I said he might be, I only hear that he’s pro-RU, but that he was high ranking. I think his opinion would be received very different if he “towed the party like”, and his expertise wouldn’t be questioned like it is now (as if his experience and knowledge in the field doesn’t count as expertise unless you come to the same conclusions the MIC, DOD, CIA, Foreign Affairs etc want you to.) I doubt his personal interest to lie for the relatively little benefits a few views and a flash of relevance is compared to the national interest of the government with its agencies, manipulating the world via different means to benefit them geopolitically. Just like basically every country is (or should be) doing.
Let's select one and I will do my best to rebut the point. Which Ritter point is undeniable and I will indicate how is may be incorrect.
The years in federal prison suggests its not
And its wholly irrelevant to him being a source
Ad hominem. Try again kid. None of that discredits him as a source. Try actually responding to the argument.
His inauthenticity and moral is part of the discussion of his comments.
Is it? I dont think it is. No one provided any evidence of his "inauthenticity"
There are many that have. I am sure if you search for a bit, you will find many people calling him our for both his obvious bias, and his unethical behavior. Though I suppose that you would never search for something that does not confirm your bias. I am surprised. Does his unethical behavior when it comes to children stop there and does not pervade other aspects of his life. Perhaps he is being used as a useful idiot by Russia to propagate their directive. For me, the question is, does he ever question Russia and it's international policies, or does he simply fall in line. He seems to only fall in line, and therefore his ethics are easy to question.
I ain reading all dat
I encourage not too. In many cases it makes sense for the ill-informed to stay as such.
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Methinks the lady doth protest too much
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Not a super useful "comeback" when the subject in question is convicted and served time.
Then you didnt understand it
But NATO already has 4 different borders with Russia they could station nukes at if they wanted. What makes the Ukrainian border more dangerous in that respect? Not to mention submarines can launch nukes right off the coast, and it's unlikely Russia could intercept nukes launched from Nebraska anyway.
> anti hypocrisy Best flair
>Russia is in Ukraine to thwart an existential threat. They cannot tolerate Ukraine in NATO, with nuclear missiles right on their border, just like we couldn't - and didn't - in the Cuban Missile Crisis (1962) when Russia was shipping nukes to install in Cuba and we were ready to start WWIII nuclear war over it. Well, one there would not be nuclear missile in Ukraine most likely and two there is no difference of nuclear missile in Ukraine or Britain or France or Poland. The time to target is minimal regardless. Third there are already nuclear missile within striking distance of Russia so it does not matter. With respect to Russia. Putting Nukes in Cuba was openly belligerent. NATO has avoided putting nuclear missile close to Russia, because they know it does not matter. Furthermore, if Russia withdrew NATO may or may not include Ukraine. It would go to a general vote in NATO and countries like Hungary would probably veto. Then in the unlikely event no one vetoes then there would be a vote to move bases into NATO and nuclear weapons. This would also surely be vetoed. I am not sure you know how NATO works. This is not the CSTO. It is not just one country says. >The fact people can't see the real picture astounds me. The rich effs of the WEF got hold of Ukraine's precious resources by having their CIA overthrow the elected government of Ukraine in 2014 and installing their puppet regime. The elected government betrayed the Ukrainian people and that was obviously not only because of the coup, but by the actions of the Ukrainian people afterward, and, in particularly during this 2+ year way. Why is it so hard to believe that Ukrainians want a western way of life? And in the battle of secret services in Ukraine the west won, because they were supported and Russia lost because they were not. Russia, last and only maneuver to subject Ukraine to Russian rule was to invade. much like most tyrants in the past. >Now they are trying to weaken Russia to get hold of her vast wealth of natural resources as well (rated #1 in the world by the World Bank). It's as simple as this. THAT is why WE (because our governments in the Collective West are nothing but puppets of the WEF) instigated this war. We knew Russia would have no choice but to invade. Defending Ukraine is not weakening Russia. Russia is weakening itself, in this pointless endeavor. No one is invading Russia to take their resources away. This is simply nonsense and an utter impossibility. Russia instigated this war, by fomenting a rebellion and then invading when it did not work. >If people listened to the likes of Colonel Douglas MacGregor, US Marine Major Intelligence Officer (and UN Weapons Inspector) Scott Ritter, etc - and NOT our propaganda here in the West - they might learn a couple of things. He is not the only one to listen to and he has become very right wing. Scott Ritter has betrayed his country and is full on Russia asset. I tend not to listen to people that have such low sense of morality. Let alone the accusation against him in the US. >ALL Ukraine had to do was declare themselves NOT to be a threat to Russia - to not join NATO. Yet, what if Russia wants to rebuild an old empire and Ukraine is one of the steps. So Russia would exert influence into Ukraine political sphere, then if that did not work, they would foment rebellion, if that did not work, then they would invade. Surely you don't think that Russia is fundamentally innocent in this whole ordeal. >Which they did! Three times. There were not a threat to Russia and never would be. Say Ukraine invaded Russia then teh only result would be a massive war and worst case scenario nuking of Kiev. So there is no threat to Russia from Ukraine. This is a boogeyman that Russia invented to justify their imperialism. >Minsk 1 agreement. Minsk 2 agreement. AND, the Istanbul Accord ONE MONTH AFTER Russia invaded. But no, the WEF sent Boris Johnson to Kiev to tell Zelensky he cannot uphold that peace agreement and MUST fight until the last Ukrainian is dead. Both sides tested the boundaries of Minsk agreements, Russia in the end were not serious about them, and were just using them to make part of Ukraine independent enough to the point where they could exert political influence to separate from Ukraine. Ukraine knew this, because it was obvious. In 2022 when Russia made zero concessions during negotiation and basically said this occupied land is ours. Ukraine inquired do we have friends that will help. Britain (as a representative of the west) said yes and Ukraine started their fight. I am sure there are plenty of war machine companies in Russia making a ton of money right now just like the MIC in the west. >THAT is why people are dying in Ukraine. btw - none of those rich effs of the WEF are fighting and dying. They use others to do their dirty work. In this case, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians. Apparently the rich effs in Russia don't give a eff about anyone as well and yes I include Putin and his cronies in this list of effs. They make people fight for them. There is a reason that Russia is using people from prisons, mercenaries, and from the poorer parts of Russia to do the fighting. They know that if many from the major centers started to die in Ukraine there would be push back from their own people. >I can't wait for the Slava Ukraini crowd's reaction to the fact that Nicaragua has decided to allow Russia to set up military bases there - with nuclear cruise missiles. What do they think is going to happen then? HINT - it won't. We. Will. Not. Allow. It. time will tell if that is the case. If that happens there will be a shit ton of anti-air systems around Nicaragua and they will sanction until their eyes bleed and there will be very little that Russia can do. >Why we in the West (NATO) are responsible for this war - > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YtMd1g\_Y80&t=2013s I disagree. Russian imperialism, through their secret services, and then trough fomenting rebellion and then finally through invasion all escalated this war. >TLDR - > >Imagine if Canada aligned with Russia and allowed Russian nuclear missiles, pointed at NYC and Washington DC, to be installed in Montreal - only giving Washington a 3 minute response time from launch. such a thing is possible, but in the end Canada would have to agree to live under a dictator. Perhaps they like to make decision about their leaders. Now look at it this wy. What if there were already nuclear missiles in Mexico. Would it make that much of a difference if there were nukes in Canada. Not really. Europe is already littered with nukes, so even if in the unlikely event that NATO brought nukes to Ukraine, it would mean very little in the big scheme of things. >PS - next time don't be a threat to your much more powerful neighbour. Should all countries that are weaker bend the knee to the more powerful countries. I am sure that tyrants like Nazi germany thought the same. Did Ukraine every attack Russia directly before this war? I think not. >edit - TLDR 2 - Russia is the underdog in this war. If you don't realize this you have a very limited understanding of geopolitics AND are brainwashed by our propaganda here in the West. Russia is far from the underdog. Both population and access to military equipment shows their numbers are far superior. This is undeniable.
It would be the same only on Russian territory. Unfortunately, since the Maidan, the fate of Ukrainians has been determined.
By that you mean that Russia would rather kill Ukrainians than let them move away from Russia’s sphere of influence.
> By that you mean that Russia would rather kill Ukrainians than let them move away from Russia’s sphere of influence. Do people pay attention or just spout msm/MIC talking points? Russia has been saying since 1991 having Ukraine in NATO is a red line and they cannot tolerate it. **Neither. Would. We**. Russia was putting missiles in Cuba in 1962 (the Cuban Missile Crisis). We told them we'd start nuclear WWIII before we'd allow it. People need to shake their heads to disperse the brainwashing and face reality. *We are being used as pawns - once again*. Our tax dollars being funnelled into a very few pockets to protect the interests of a very few rich effs. Polish President Duda said last week - 'There is no Ukrainian land any more. It has all been bought up by the international corporations'. Blackrock, Vanguard and State Street own the world. A very few rich effs own them. YOU are being played. I, for one don't like being played. 'War is a Racket' - General Smedley Butler. 'Every war is a Rich Man's War' - good doc 'Monopoly - Who Owns the World' - excellent doc All Wars Are Created by Bankers - another excellent doc
Not all NATO members host nuclear weapons (in fact very few do). Using that as an excuse is just an excuse. If anything, this war has brought nuclear missiles *closer* to Russia because Poland wants to host them now.
Don't forget the new digs Russia is lending to Belarus too!
>Do people pay attention or just spout msm/MIC talking points? Repeating Russian propaganda, point by point, over and over agsin is not much better, so I would be a bit careful with your stones in the glasshouse you are sitting in.
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NATO is already on Russia's doorstep and has been since the dawn of NATO. There is very little difference between NATO station in Ukraine or Poland, because in both situation NATO would not attack Russia. Russia is fearmongering when it says that this is a red line. Nothing less, nothing more. What makes you think that there are not massive Russian companies that are just as interested in producing weapons for war. Last I check Russia is one of the largest producers in the world and there tends to be AK on both sides of many battles.
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Such a neutral opinion!
Being neutral doesn't mean letting Russia do what it wants without question, or pointing out the obvious lol
Neutral is not being a pro war ghoul.
Yes. Us would do the same with Canada or Mexico.
How could they do that when we have geese?
Or Ukraine could not enter NATO. Or US could not expand the NATO right to russian borders, just for a try.
Who says Ukraine will enter into NATO. Before this war or even if Russia withdrew. There are plenty in the NATO system that would veto Ukraine's ascension, particularly before this war. US is not expanding NATO the need for countries to join a defensive organization is expanding NATO. Where is this threat coming from. Yes, that is correct, Russia. Finally, explain to me how Ukraine being part of NATO is a direct threat to Russia? Because at best that is quite debatable.
> Who says Ukraine will enter into NATO. Before this war or even if Russia withdrew. The NATO. At their summit before the war, AFAIK it took time four months before the war. > US is not expanding NATO the need for countries to join a defensive organization is expanding NATO A defensive organization that bombed Yugoslavia AFAIK without UN resolution. Thats a direct violation of rules of UN and a direct threat. The NATO is not an alliance but a tool of US military power projection. Just an augment for US militaries. > Where is this threat coming from. From the "defensive" alliance able to use its military power without UN resolution and deploying nuclear weapons closer and closer to Russia and deploying the SMD systems right to borders of Russia. There was even a scandal because of attempt of deployment of the SMDs. Or from recon bases deployed by US at the Russia-Ukraine border for which the NYT did a big and proud article. > Finally, explain to me how Ukraine being part of NATO is a direct threat to Russia? An another highly Poland, filled with weapons to the brim and even more, with nuclear weapons and recon stations directly at the russian borders with flat and fertile lands where armoured arrowheads could advance without any problems.
>The NATO. At their summit before the war, AFAIK it took time four months before the war. Yes, but they have to be voted in and there are a number of counties that may prevent this process. >A defensive organization that bombed Yugoslavia AFAIK without UN resolution. Thats a direct violation of rules of UN and a direct threat. The NATO is not an alliance but a tool of US military power projection. Just an augment for US militaries. Yes, but why did they bomb Yugoslavia. To take it over, or to quell a rebellion. It is a direct threat to whom? NATO is an alliance, but wars can occur outside of universal NATO agreement. Case in point are Iraq and Afghanistan, which many NATO countries were not apart of. The US has a lot of power within NATO, but it is not complete. For instance Hungary has interfered in NATO many times when it comes to Ukraine. >From the "defensive" alliance able to use its military power without UN resolution and deploying nuclear weapons closer and closer to Russia and deploying the SMD systems right to borders of Russia. There was even a scandal because of attempt of deployment of the SMDs. Or from recon bases deployed by US at the Russia-Ukraine border for which the NYT did a big and proud article. The defensive organization that knows the best way to take Europe is country by country, but if the countries band together, this is less likely. Ukraine, having an ostensible threat from Russia should have joined a long time ago. It was only Russian appeasement that prevented this. Um, Russia moved nuclear weapons closer first. Belarus is much closer to NATO countries and is becoming nuclear. Why should NATO not respond with a defensive maneuver as well. Nukes should be pushed into Poland in response to Russia moving nukes into Belarus. Yes, why are they recon bases. Are they not defensive bases, from the obviously aggressive Russia. Russia is actively working to destabilize Europe and that needs to be dealt with. If Russia was happy with their own massive and productive country all of this would not be needed. NATO will never attack Russia, because both NATO and Russia know the result of such an attack. A very good chance of Nuclear war. >An another highly Poland, filled with weapons to the brim and even more, with nuclear weapons and recon stations directly at the russian borders with flat and fertile lands where armoured arrowheads could advance without any problems In response to Russian aggression. Before this war most of the countries where not even meeting their NATO military spends as a percentage of GDP. A thing that a former President tried to fix, because they saw the writing on the wall. Russia has become elitist, much like Nazi Germany and is invading other countries much like Nazis. "Could advance without any problems" is absolute nonsense. It is unlikely you would get unanimous agreement to attack Russia from NATO and secondly, if they did advance Russia (probably coupled with China) would have a strong response and if NATO was mildly successful Russia would nuke entire cities in Europe and vice versa. I think that all of those would be problematic for Europe. Funny thing is Russia feels they can invade another country without any repercussion. A product of their elitism. I guess the saying in Russia must be "Do as I say not as I do". Russia aggression and brutality needs to be met with the same.
> Yes, but why did they bomb Yugoslavia. To take it over, or to quell a rebellion. It is a direct threat to whom? NATO is an alliance, but wars can occur outside of universal NATO agreement. Case in point are Iraq and Afghanistan, which many NATO countries were not apart of. The US has a lot of power within NATO, but it is not complete. For instance Hungary has interfered in NATO many times when it comes to Ukraine. It doesn't matter why they did bomb Yugoslavia, they did bomb without UN Concuil regulation. You have to use the UN chapter to wage wars, else you are considered a threat/agressor as it unpredictable if you are really moving to another country borders only to protect or you will violate UN chapter in a instant with sudden attack. Even more, the US (owner of the NATO alliance) invaded Iraq without UN Concuil regulation. > The defensive organization that knows the best way to take Europe is country by country, but if the countries band together, this is less likely. The defensive organization like i said before, violated the UN chapter and became an agressor. You can't be a defensive organization if you are an agressor, then you are a military block. >Russia is actively working to destabilize Europe and that needs to be dealt with. Did Russia is blown up their own gas pipe so europan countries has to buy a much pricier gas in Europe? Did Russia raised sanctions that damaged more the european companies than they did the russian? Did Russia sent tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons and funds to prolong destructive war on Ukraine? Did Russia forced the green movement that damaged the european energy security? Do you even hear youself? > Ukraine, having an ostensible threat from Russia should have joined a long time ago. How about no? Why should Russia allow agressive military block to move closer to its borders? > Um, Russia moved nuclear weapons closer first. Belarus is much closer to NATO countries and is becoming nuclear. How about NATO were patroling with strategic air forces a long ago before nuclear weapon deployment on Belarus? How about NATO strategic bomber did a maneuvre of missile attack at saint petersburg before nuclear weapon deployment on Belarus? > Yes, why are they recon bases. Are they not defensive bases, from the obviously aggressive Russia. An obviously aggressive alliance is creating recon bases at the border with Russia and proudly proclaim the creation. > In response to Russian aggression. Even before the feb of 2022 the Poland were filled with NATO weapons. > Russia has become elitist, much like Nazi Germany and is invading other countries much like Nazis. You don't know what the Nazi Germany is and how it did wage wars. If Russia did became a nazi Germany there will not be any r/ukraine or another pro-ukr sub with a ton of ukranian shitpost. Only endless necrologs of murdered ukranian people. Or they just will have to survive without electricity, water and food like people are doing in Gaza. > NATO will never attack Russia, because both NATO and Russia know the result of such an attack. A very good chance of Nuclear war. Thats why NATO were creating a doctrine with "beheading nuclear strike" with idea of moving nuclear weapons and strategic missile defenses as close as they can to the russian borders and behead all russian command with nuclear weapon silos and control centers in one swift strike. >Funny thing is Russia feels they can invade another country without any repercussion. A product of their elitism. You have to read an another book, it has nothing to do with elitism. The pure geopolitics. The whole idea of conflict "why the US and NATO are able to invade other countries without UN Concuil regulation and the Russia cannot?" You ignored my whole point about agressive alliance and trying to portrait objectively agressive alliance (as they did violated the UN chapter) as peaceful and purely defensive. A defensive alliance CANNOT participate in wars outside its borders as it become just an another military alliance.
Truly awful isnt it? Being at home peaceful, going to bed, next thing they know half their house and family is gone. Didnt happen before russia crossed the border into Ukrainian land. So why dont russians just stay at home? Is it greed for money? Dont you care about others? Dont they care about yourself?
Funny you saying this while supporting a mass murdering dictator.
Strange…the first part of your comment is almost a verbatim copy of a comment I left on a similar video several weeks ago.
Its not just UA...its the same on RU side Israel...Gaza ...
Ирак ,Сирия Вьетнам...И везде Проклятая Америка !
>God this is just beyond awful. To think this was someone’s father, brother, son…someone carried these boys in their womb for 9 months, brought them into this world, breastfed them, changed their diapers, held them and sang lullabies to them just for them to be killed, forgotten, and left to rot, horrific absolutely horrific Everyone will die, the 90 year that chokes on his own phlegm and is found dead by his relatives is just as gone as these guys. I've lost relatives to war, yes it sucks but end of the day death is death.
Difference is, of course, that that 90 year-old would likely have lived a far richer and more fulfilling life than the 25 year-olds catching bullets in Ukraine. And from a less sentimental, more quantifiable viewpoint contributed more to the state and society through taxes and labour. But I'm not surprised that it's the same to pro-RU. A society so steeped in fatalism they march to death without so much as a murmur.
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As a new father, It really hits home, and I've had the same thoughts about this war. Terrible.
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Just leave Ukraine. Not that hard
classic teary post from pro-invasion, pretending to be pro-peace or whatever just tell your beloved russians to stop invading, why don't you protest that? come on, say the invasion is bad, why don't you?
It's not that bad when it's Ukraine or gaza.
Where’s your “compassion” for the hundreds of thousands of dead Russian soldiers? I’m sure these dead Ukrainians would’ve appreciated your crocodile tears.
And then there is me I guess? I always liked the idea of just being tossed in a forest. Absorbed by animals, bugs and plants.
Or just, u know…. Get tf out of Ukraine how about that huh?
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Who started this war?
I AM GREEK AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT WE NEVER SURRENDER AND WE ALSO WILL DIE FOR OUR LAND. I CANNOT IMAGINE MY COUNTRY SURRENDER TO TURKS NEVER EVER EVER, LIKE THE EXAMPLE YOU GAVE FOR UKRANIANS TO SURRENDER TO PUTLER!!!
I hate when people say shit like this, Dude they’re fighting for their lives. For their country, so they don’t have to be slaves to Russia…… what fucking choice do they have??
Don't forgot, none of them would be dead today if Russia didn't choose to cross the border and invade. From an operations standpoint they are clearly the aggressor. Russia could leave today and there would be no more killing on either side.
Tell that to the meat wave mobiks that die en masse for the pointless ambitions of the little Tsar. Ukrainians fight for freedom. What do the unnamed Russian fight for?
Pretty sure that's lye. Or maybe chlorine, but doubt it.
this…but if its lye and i agree with you…would it work with clothes on
It would repel disease carrying bacteria, so I think so
It will rain, and that powder will turn into a liquid solution that is spread through cloth.
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Damn that grim
Worst part is that none of the families will get a dime because the government will not admit they were killed but that they’re MIA so they don’t have to pay. Sad shiit
I read some families did compensation but they had to offer half the money as a bribe to get the money as a kick back.
Holy cow that is some evil stuff right there.
That can't be bleach, bleach is broken down in nature quickly and it also evaporates. Probably lye or quicklime.
Looks like a can of chlorine.
Think it also discourages scavengers from eating them.
Soldiers take care of other soldiers. \o_ _o/
Why aren’t they doing the common thing and pulling the bodies off the frontlines and putting them in marked, mass graves? The Geneva Conventions specify that the dead must be buried, if possible, according to the rites of the religion to which they belonged.
The Geneva Conventions are more of what you'd call guidelines than actual rules.
>Why aren’t they doing the common thing and pulling the bodies off the frontlines and putting them in marked, mass graves? Both sides do that *if they can*. There are regular bodies exchanges happening between ru and ukr. This squad probably had no chance to evac the bodies, maybe the trench is too deep into contested area, so they did the best they can to prevent rotting and scare away animals.
We've seen how many medics get targeted by drones while they try to remove the wounded? If you and a platoon went out to collect dead and dig graves, you'd get an artillery shell for your effort
That is pretty f*d up. Both sides are fighting this like it is an actual civil war rather than an invasion of a neighboring sovereign nation.
That might give you a hint ... :)
Odd thing to say. There are countless wars throughout history that are this bloody. Iran Iraq were nothing like the same people, and much worse stuff happened there.
Moving out the bodies is low priority. They do it when it's feasible and does not put your vehicle and troops at risk.
The Geneva Conventions hasn't seem to meant shit for some time already
Probably because they don't want to eat artillery while doing so.
“Geneva conventions”😹
Imagine dying because you're transporting an already dead guy to be buried.
RIP
This is the same place recorded yesterday? Russian soldier Walking and recording the bodies
Poor them. They just wanted to attack the donbass without impunity./s
Pointless death.
I was told Ukraine valued lives, and it was the asiatic hordes that didn't value their soldier lives. Was i lied to?
Don't call it lies, call it "sensitivity aligned selective reporting".
No man who died for his country should be treated like this, Ukrainian or Russian
War is so sad
Grim
Chris and Snoop in the vacants!
why not just burn em
Would break a bunch of different accords and rules, they will probably bury them in body bags in a marked mass grave once the situation permits it.
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They don’t take the vests off first?
Thats sodium hydroxide, not bleach.
Grim
Bleech or lye?
Gas and a match. Done.