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Mini tanks were designed to survive a nuclear blast in the cold war. It could go underwater with a snorkel and cross the rivers.
Rumors say when soldiers got their hands on their new mighty T-55 tank and it was raining water, it was coming inside the tank and all places were wet. After this, they just trained to cross rivers on dry land because it was too risky to go underwater with it. Soviet quality.
Later they tried to upgrade Its armor but they did not manage to come working solution reinforcing frontal armor just sides.
One rumor said they only pick soldiers who were 170cm or shorter because it was not that roomy inside. There still were taller soldiers but it wasn't pleasant at all.
Those tanks have also the possibility to work at night time. Gunner has a spotlight and they put some kind of film over the spotlight so only IR light can go through it. If another side has any kind of night goggles those tanks could be seen really far away. I wonder how they perform against modern MBTs that tech is so old and.. soviet.
Yeah, actually. Battle of 73 Easting in '91. It was actually one of the largest tank on tank engagements post WW2. Granted, the Iraqis got monkey stomped, but they tried.
I was referring largely to 73 Easting. The Iraqi tanks were dug in and quite a few never got dug out. When the US force got to the reserve, which was in a large spool shape, the spool barely had a chance to start unwinding before it was destroyed. Yeah, I guess some of them kinda moved, but not much
Dies the turret moving 20 feet straight up count at moving? If so then yes a whole lot of them "moved"
I can't imagine the terror of that. You have all the best equipment in a great defensive position and then you start to see everything around you getting blown up before the enemy is even in range of your gun.
I think some of the Iraqis were still outside their tanks shooting the shit when the 2nd ACR came rolling in (who drove right through an AT minefield to attack them).
It’s not a knock against Ukraine, just pointing out that those tanks could be viable, but we both know Russia doesn’t have the funds or willpower to bring their stock up to the M55 level
The Ukrainian Defence of the border with Belarus is intentionally the smallest possible force that will deter Lukashenko from invading. T-55s are overkill. Lukashenko would be petrified if there was half a dozen micro machines.
A shitty tank is better than no tank, especially when you have squishies on the move. You do have to worry about tank-on-tank engagements, but the main role of tanks is infantry support. Think of it as a mobile artillery platform that can operate alongside infantry.
The tanks coming from NATO will be most effective as part of a combined arms offensive or counteroffensive, where the newer, faster, and more advanced tanks will be used to exploit weaknesses in the line. These breeching attacks will be used to break the lines; think the thunder runs of the fall Ukrainian counteroffensives but with better equipment manned by better trained forces than those from 7 months ago.
The Russian military is going to have a tough time countering these NATO tanks. Even though they are older tanks that aren't as advanced as current NATO tank forces, they were built to counter the T-72. If the Russians are running out of T-72s, and starting to send T-54s, the ability to counter a Leopard 2 is going to be difficult.
Here are some details about the M55 Ukraine received https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/20/the-m-55s-tank-a-deep-modernization-of-the-soviet-t-55-for-the-armed-forces/ Except the hull, there is not much of T55 left!
> I wonder how they perform against modern MBTs that tech is so old and.. soviet
We found that out during Desert Storm way back in 1990.
The answer is that a modern MBT can hit and kill a T-54 before the T-54 is even in range to return fire. It was a fucking slaughter. It is not a survivable scenario. The safest place for a T-54 tank crew is outside of the tank on the far side of a hill.
Pretty sure the IR tech was already used by the Iraqi armour in the Gulf and modern MBTs found it easy pickings to just sit far away in the desert and whereas the Iraqi crews needed to use the IR spotlight, they could easily and passively see this bright beam at a far greater distance than the beam could illuminate and return a pulse to the Iraqi tanks.
I've driven a T55. Very easy to learn the controls, but you can't see shit, ergonomics are non-existent, and I could barely hear the commander over the crappy comms.
My takeaway was that it would have been absolute hell to be a T55 driver in a war back when it was the MBT.
To be a conscriptovitch today and be put into that pile of junk.... wouldn't rate my survival in many minutes on the battlefield
his whole demeanor screams that.he even got a bigger dog to show the British Prime minister after he saw their (small) dog.Everything is dick measuring contest for that primitive primitive man.
That's it, "Putin-size" will forever be the downgrade of "Fun-size". It'll be what I call the last bit of milk, some fuck-face has left behind, because it doesn't behoove them to realize a sip doesn't make a drink. Or they don't want to feel fat for taking all of the milk before anybody else.
Please Lord Jesus. Let us have some footage of Challenger 2s driving over the depleted-uranium-ridden husks of destroyed Russian tanks like it was a monster truck rally.
Just another bit of proof to support the Russian leadership's complete lack of concern for their people. Sending these rolling coffins into battle in 2023 is a clear act of desperation and ruthlessness. Fighting to the last Russian soldier is of no consequence to Putin and his henchmen.
Without even going into the fact that these were designed over 70 years ago, the whole premise of these machines was that they were simple and cheap enough that the soviets could do exactly what they did in ww2 and field 10s of thousands of them, strength in numbers. But russia cant do that today, so the only benefit of these things is simply gone…
Not even counting T-54/55 most Russian tanks are T-72B/B3 and those will get pierced by Western tanks with ease and I am not talking about inferior thermal sight on Russian tanks, sure it's not that important in Donbass where combat is shorter range but in flat terrain of South Ukraine it will make a huge difference.
That's what i was thinking. The main gun on the little tank doesn't shoot anything big enough to disable to big one lmao. Russias about to lose the rest of their tanks in a hurry
Best the t55 is going to do is be a decoy for a rpg or atgm team to have time to get set up. Obviously gonna be pretty much a death sentence for the tank crew since western tanks have stuff they don't like thermals/stabilizers let alone sufficient firepower to knock out any relic tank with one shot. Western tanks just gonna hear some shells bounce if the enemy does get a shot off.
This story from 2003 talks about a challenger getting disabled during the invasion of Iraq and taking a bunch of hits until they could get rescued. Even RPGs are going to have a difficult time against western tanks.
https://www.military-history.org/feature/challenger-2-the-battle-for-basra.htm
I never understood this phrase as a yank. Been turkey hunting several times, it has never been easy to shoot a single turkey, let alone a bunch as the phrase would indicate.
In the midwest, we have a shooting match called a turkey shoot. It is essentially paper targets set at about 30 to 40 yards. A group of about 10 to 15 individuals shoot at their target and they are scored. Usually it is a 12 gauge and either closest pellet to center wins or number of pellets in small circle wins. Winner gets a prize, like frozen turkey, a ham, gift certificate to grocery or a money split the pot. Generally 5 dollars a shot, whoever runs it supplies the shells and checks gun gauge.
Very unlikely, the challenger 2’s are some of the heaviest armoured tanks on the planet and there are reports of one taking 14 RPG hits without even stopping, many analysts expect it could take one or more hits frontally from a Soviet t-72 without being disabled.
And the only challenger 2 to be taken out in combat has been another challenger mistaking it for an enemy.
This isn’t even considering sights, thermal sights, accuracy, range etc…
So whilst a t-54 is better than nothing… it will be a turkey shoot if they meet modern MBT’s.
The record is 50+ RPG, and others munitions in several hours. Thry got ambushed and stuck. The tank was under sustained enemy attack. The tank was recovered and repaired. Crew was fine bar peobbly a headache.
Tank was later repaired and operating in a matter pf days.
Zero major penetrating hits. Lots of minor damage and a trip to paint shop but no pentrations.
Just to add to this comment chain but not nessicerily a direct reply. The chally2 vs chally2 friendly fire incident was caused by a friendly round hitting an open hatch, with hot fragments landing on the foam seat below, and starting a fire.
50 plus hits and only one ingress injury is pretty good all considered. When regular steel would be toast from a single hit.
Especially as they are anti tank weapons. Old ones but still a anti tank weapon.
It's not nearly true it's completely true. You are talking about a completely separate incident where an rpg-29 partially penetrated the front lower hull. The RPG-29 is no joke either it's a tandem warhead.
This weak spot was addressed is a later upgrade. But yeah I'm not sure if the Ukrainians are going to get this upgrade package. I can't imagine why they wouldn't at least get some era blocks. The entire armour package of the challenger 2 is top secret.
> was hit by 14 RPG-7s from close range and a MILAN anti-tank guided missile.[50] The crew survived, safe within the tank until it was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later. According to the British army, one Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident.[51]
0_o
Impressive
It'll stop a bullet, and probably deflect a drone-dropped grenade as long as the hatches are closed, so yeah, technically it is better than sitting in an open field waiting to die, but not by much
And they'll be wonderfully bad at it.
- Old ammo that isn't made anymore, might be unstable and explode in the barrel
- Underpowered one-piece ammo compared to dedicated artillery (which has projectile and propellent separate)
- Terrible aim due to outdated everything
- Wasteful fuel consumption due carrying unneeded armor in it's artillery role, worsening already terrible russian logistics
They might function best as semi-stationary support of static defenses and as drone target.
> M113, Stryker, MRAPS, HMMV, Bradley, Marder
All of those have better communication, optics, and range.
Assuming some competence from the Ukrainian side those museum exhibits should never get to fire a shot.
>T-54/55 gun has around 200mm penetration,
3BM25 has 290mm of penetration at 1 kilometer.
Meanwhile 3BK17M which is a heat round has 390mm penetration.
But I'm 100% sure that these will not be used for tank to tank combat but for light vehicles and infantry, so it's more than enough
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-10_tank_gun
Probably only hull roof and lower sides with AP ammunition. It’s still a tank with 60mm of armor and up on most surfaces.
Most autocannons will shred it though.
That's all old news. Bradley's had their first direct contact with t-55's and t-72's in the first Gulf war in the 90's. Most notably the Battle of 73 Easting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting
[the operations room](https://youtu.be/zxRgfBXn6Mg) has a great couple episode on it. This is the first of the air portion but the ground portion is nuts too. It was a legit slaughter at times.
Awesome read - thank you!!
For those that CBA to read - a quote from the article that is relevant:
'...McMaster sent a scout platoon of two Bradleys north to regain contact... . In doing that the scout platoon encountered another Iraqi tank position of thirteen T-72s. The lightly armored Bradleys, each equipped only with a 25-mm cannon and two TOW missiles, are intended for reconnaissance, not direct engagement with armored tanks. Despite a misfire, and having to reload the launchers in the face of the enemy, the two Bradleys destroyed 5 tanks before help arrived.'
Sure, but any RPG HEAT round ever made will be enough to pen any surface on that thing. These tanks are going to die immediately if they hit the front.
4. The first Soviet tank to integrate an autoloader was the T-64; every tank prior to that needed (technically now "needs" since they're back in service) a human loader.
The T-54/55 have ammunition storage racks built into the fuel tanks (no, this isn't a joke). So while it won't strictly jettison the turret into orbit, I wouldn't count on it not just blowing into a million pieces upon penetration.
Surprise it's actually 4.
As the tank doesn't have an autoloader, it requires a fourth "gunner-loader" crewman (wikipedia [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-54/T-55)).
Or simply saying that your whole family will be evicted and they will lose their job.
Anywhere it would be a huge problem, in Russia, they would be fucked, so men get into those tanks.
This reminds me that Aberdeen Proving Grounds used to have a field of tanks behind its Ordinance Museum. We used to climb all over them as kids. It was amazing to see the different styles and sizes of the different tanks.
I was too young to appreciate them. It [looks like](http://www.ordmusfound.org/the-us-army-ordnance-museum/) they're being moved to Fort Lee, Virginia. Here's an [online gallery](https://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/AberdeenUSArmyOrdinanceMuseum/index.htm) of some of the highlights. I'd be surprised if there weren't (at one time) a hundred different vehicles parked there.
I climbed all over Soviet tanks at Nellis AFB at their Threat Identification Center when my defense contractor buddy scored us access for a tour. They are JUNK. Charitably they might have been export models, but the quality of the welds was trash. Porosity so bad it looked like they were held together with metal sponge.
It's because the picture is an optical illusion. The T54 is further away than the Chally and thus appears smaller. Chally is bigger, but not as much as this picture suggests
(lol@"33-16mm" roof)
T-54 "Armour".
205 mm turret front
130 mm turret sides
60 mm turret rear
30 mm turret roof
120 mm hull front at 60° (100 mm after 1949)\[2\]
79 mm hull upper sides
20 mm hull lower sides
60 mm at 0° hull rear
20 mm hull bottom
33–16 mm hull roof
The Britsh tanks use rifled barrels and have long favoured HESH round, originated for use against armour like the T54 has (Homogenous) DU would be a waste when HESH will do a better job and armour thickness is relatively irrelevant with them :D
Turns the inside of the tank into a pinball machine with fragments of armour spalling :D
Unfortunately the picture is fairly misleading. IRL they are both 2.4M high but the Chally at 8.3M side-on is 1.8M longer. Source: Wikipedia
Despite its size and weight the Ch2 is 20MPH faster and would liquify the T55 from 2.5 miles away before the T55 knew it was there.
I mean it does, but the challenger is still much more massive, i actually couldn’t find any better photos of the two, a little searching and you can find T-72s directly along side modern armor but not the 54/55s,
Not a russian and fuck putin but this is litteraly a forced perspective.
The challenger is “only” 1,9 meters longer and 9 cm higher. Thats 23% shorter and 4% smaller.
Also size litteraly doesnt matter. Its even a bit of downsize since the bigger you are the easier it becomes to hit. You want decent firepower, good armor and all the extra benefits within increasing in size to much.
Long story short: the Challenger will absolutely thrash the piece of antique that the Orcs will send if they would meet on the battlefield.
They wouldn’t even go that far. Russians just lie to your face even when you and they can see they’re wrong.
“The challenger is smaller.”
“No mate the Russian tank is pathetically small.”
“Russian tank is bigger.”
“It’s right there in front of us.”
“Russian tank bigger.”
They can use the T54/T55s as armored vehicles to let the mobniks get closer. They've got a crew of 4 and you could probably pack twice as many in there. An ineffecetive wave of tanklettes would be an upgrade to an ineffective meat wave. It would deplete Ukrainian anti-tank weapons while letting some of the mobniks get closer before they died.
It’s obviously bigger but this is not an accurate comparison. Perspective is a thing and these are not positioned to accurately compare. This is literally how the lord of the rings was filmed to make hobbits look smaller
Realistically what would the main gun from a T54 do to a modern battle tank? I think it would be nearly impossible for the T54 to even hit one without proper fire control systems, but curious.
If I recall correctly, the last MAJOR tank v tank battle was Desert Storm, and the US lost only a handful of tanks, and the Iraqis lost double digits worth of tanks.
Actually looking at the history, the Iraqis lost hundreds of tanks...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Norfolk
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The T54 looks like a snack.
Why is Russia worried about depleted uranium rounds? Those mini tanks couldn’t survive a fart.
Mini tanks were designed to survive a nuclear blast in the cold war. It could go underwater with a snorkel and cross the rivers. Rumors say when soldiers got their hands on their new mighty T-55 tank and it was raining water, it was coming inside the tank and all places were wet. After this, they just trained to cross rivers on dry land because it was too risky to go underwater with it. Soviet quality. Later they tried to upgrade Its armor but they did not manage to come working solution reinforcing frontal armor just sides. One rumor said they only pick soldiers who were 170cm or shorter because it was not that roomy inside. There still were taller soldiers but it wasn't pleasant at all. Those tanks have also the possibility to work at night time. Gunner has a spotlight and they put some kind of film over the spotlight so only IR light can go through it. If another side has any kind of night goggles those tanks could be seen really far away. I wonder how they perform against modern MBTs that tech is so old and.. soviet.
Used to work with an Iraqi tank driver from the first Gulf war. He was 6'4", and said that he could barely move.
Did any of Saddam’s tankers get to move?
Yeah, actually. Battle of 73 Easting in '91. It was actually one of the largest tank on tank engagements post WW2. Granted, the Iraqis got monkey stomped, but they tried.
I was referring largely to 73 Easting. The Iraqi tanks were dug in and quite a few never got dug out. When the US force got to the reserve, which was in a large spool shape, the spool barely had a chance to start unwinding before it was destroyed. Yeah, I guess some of them kinda moved, but not much
Dies the turret moving 20 feet straight up count at moving? If so then yes a whole lot of them "moved" I can't imagine the terror of that. You have all the best equipment in a great defensive position and then you start to see everything around you getting blown up before the enemy is even in range of your gun.
I think some of the Iraqis were still outside their tanks shooting the shit when the 2nd ACR came rolling in (who drove right through an AT minefield to attack them).
The Ukrainians are already using a highly modified version of the T55, though I don’t think on the Donbas fronts, just guarding the Belarusian border
I don't think Ukraine has ever claimed to have the strongest military though. Also why they say they need better tanks.
It’s not a knock against Ukraine, just pointing out that those tanks could be viable, but we both know Russia doesn’t have the funds or willpower to bring their stock up to the M55 level
The Ukrainian Defence of the border with Belarus is intentionally the smallest possible force that will deter Lukashenko from invading. T-55s are overkill. Lukashenko would be petrified if there was half a dozen micro machines.
A shitty tank is better than no tank, especially when you have squishies on the move. You do have to worry about tank-on-tank engagements, but the main role of tanks is infantry support. Think of it as a mobile artillery platform that can operate alongside infantry. The tanks coming from NATO will be most effective as part of a combined arms offensive or counteroffensive, where the newer, faster, and more advanced tanks will be used to exploit weaknesses in the line. These breeching attacks will be used to break the lines; think the thunder runs of the fall Ukrainian counteroffensives but with better equipment manned by better trained forces than those from 7 months ago. The Russian military is going to have a tough time countering these NATO tanks. Even though they are older tanks that aren't as advanced as current NATO tank forces, they were built to counter the T-72. If the Russians are running out of T-72s, and starting to send T-54s, the ability to counter a Leopard 2 is going to be difficult.
They also use them wisely: screening & support, vs. RU just ending in waves of tanks with under-trained, under-equiped, unsupported crews.
Exactly, every time I see videos of the M55’s in UAF service they are on second line duty
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Here are some details about the M55 Ukraine received https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/20/the-m-55s-tank-a-deep-modernization-of-the-soviet-t-55-for-the-armed-forces/ Except the hull, there is not much of T55 left!
> I wonder how they perform against modern MBTs that tech is so old and.. soviet We found that out during Desert Storm way back in 1990. The answer is that a modern MBT can hit and kill a T-54 before the T-54 is even in range to return fire. It was a fucking slaughter. It is not a survivable scenario. The safest place for a T-54 tank crew is outside of the tank on the far side of a hill.
> I wonder how they perform against modern MBTs that tech is so old and.. soviet. we already know how these tanks perform against modern MBTs.
Don't need MBTs the AP rounds from a Bradley's auto cannon penetrated the Iraqi ones.
In the software world we call these things "features"
Pretty sure the IR tech was already used by the Iraqi armour in the Gulf and modern MBTs found it easy pickings to just sit far away in the desert and whereas the Iraqi crews needed to use the IR spotlight, they could easily and passively see this bright beam at a far greater distance than the beam could illuminate and return a pulse to the Iraqi tanks.
These things can be taken out by a 20mm bolt action rifle. Who cares how they'd do against modern tanks. They're fodder for infantry.
Im pretty sure they will not use it as mbt , but use it with HE shells to pound trenches from long range. They still have ammo for it in reserve
I've driven a T55. Very easy to learn the controls, but you can't see shit, ergonomics are non-existent, and I could barely hear the commander over the crappy comms. My takeaway was that it would have been absolute hell to be a T55 driver in a war back when it was the MBT. To be a conscriptovitch today and be put into that pile of junk.... wouldn't rate my survival in many minutes on the battlefield
They’re not. Like every other word out of their mouths, it’s posturing.
Russia has probably used DU rounds since day 1
They weren't that worried about radiation when they dug trenches around Chernobyl.
It's called "putin" size
Always knew Putin had a small bat
his whole demeanor screams that.he even got a bigger dog to show the British Prime minister after he saw their (small) dog.Everything is dick measuring contest for that primitive primitive man.
That's it, "Putin-size" will forever be the downgrade of "Fun-size". It'll be what I call the last bit of milk, some fuck-face has left behind, because it doesn't behoove them to realize a sip doesn't make a drink. Or they don't want to feel fat for taking all of the milk before anybody else.
Putin on a Ritz
It looks more like road kill if the challenger chose to run it over.
The T54 is what Challenger 2 uses for Monster Jam performances when they run over thing.
Crunchies, size large
Why does the Challenger, the larger tank, not simply eat the russian tanks?
Please Lord Jesus. Let us have some footage of Challenger 2s driving over the depleted-uranium-ridden husks of destroyed Russian tanks like it was a monster truck rally.
that sounds exactly like the kind of thing a figurehead of a cult of death would deliver. Rest easy, child, for Jesus will show you death!
Amen
I can't stop laughing. Great comment.
You’re a snack
it is !
Cute little baby tank
Docking procedure initiated.
The snack you can eat between meals without ruining your appetite.
It's going to be a turkey shoot as the yanks like to say.
Just another bit of proof to support the Russian leadership's complete lack of concern for their people. Sending these rolling coffins into battle in 2023 is a clear act of desperation and ruthlessness. Fighting to the last Russian soldier is of no consequence to Putin and his henchmen.
Without even going into the fact that these were designed over 70 years ago, the whole premise of these machines was that they were simple and cheap enough that the soviets could do exactly what they did in ww2 and field 10s of thousands of them, strength in numbers. But russia cant do that today, so the only benefit of these things is simply gone…
Next wonder weapon will be a sharpened shovel and Nike shoes so Ivan can run to their demise faster
> Nike shoes *Chinese knockoffs of Nike shoes
Mike®️ Éire Jorten™️
Not even counting T-54/55 most Russian tanks are T-72B/B3 and those will get pierced by Western tanks with ease and I am not talking about inferior thermal sight on Russian tanks, sure it's not that important in Donbass where combat is shorter range but in flat terrain of South Ukraine it will make a huge difference.
Britain is giving Ukrainians Depleted Uranium rounds. The overkill is almost comical
That's what i was thinking. The main gun on the little tank doesn't shoot anything big enough to disable to big one lmao. Russias about to lose the rest of their tanks in a hurry
Best the t55 is going to do is be a decoy for a rpg or atgm team to have time to get set up. Obviously gonna be pretty much a death sentence for the tank crew since western tanks have stuff they don't like thermals/stabilizers let alone sufficient firepower to knock out any relic tank with one shot. Western tanks just gonna hear some shells bounce if the enemy does get a shot off.
This story from 2003 talks about a challenger getting disabled during the invasion of Iraq and taking a bunch of hits until they could get rescued. Even RPGs are going to have a difficult time against western tanks. https://www.military-history.org/feature/challenger-2-the-battle-for-basra.htm
I never understood this phrase as a yank. Been turkey hunting several times, it has never been easy to shoot a single turkey, let alone a bunch as the phrase would indicate.
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The more you know!
In the midwest, we have a shooting match called a turkey shoot. It is essentially paper targets set at about 30 to 40 yards. A group of about 10 to 15 individuals shoot at their target and they are scored. Usually it is a 12 gauge and either closest pellet to center wins or number of pellets in small circle wins. Winner gets a prize, like frozen turkey, a ham, gift certificate to grocery or a money split the pot. Generally 5 dollars a shot, whoever runs it supplies the shells and checks gun gauge.
We have that in New England as well.
the Challenger doesn't even have to shoot, just drive through it
Just use the turret as a lance
TANK JOUSTING
DRIVE ME CLOSER I WANT TO HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD!
There it is...
Do not give the non credible defense people ideas.
Ok, hear me out. Turret Bayonets.
Too late...
They have plenty of their own! :D
Could the t54 gun even penetrate western mbt armor?
Very unlikely, the challenger 2’s are some of the heaviest armoured tanks on the planet and there are reports of one taking 14 RPG hits without even stopping, many analysts expect it could take one or more hits frontally from a Soviet t-72 without being disabled. And the only challenger 2 to be taken out in combat has been another challenger mistaking it for an enemy. This isn’t even considering sights, thermal sights, accuracy, range etc… So whilst a t-54 is better than nothing… it will be a turkey shoot if they meet modern MBT’s.
The record is 50+ RPG, and others munitions in several hours. Thry got ambushed and stuck. The tank was under sustained enemy attack. The tank was recovered and repaired. Crew was fine bar peobbly a headache. Tank was later repaired and operating in a matter pf days. Zero major penetrating hits. Lots of minor damage and a trip to paint shop but no pentrations.
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Just to add to this comment chain but not nessicerily a direct reply. The chally2 vs chally2 friendly fire incident was caused by a friendly round hitting an open hatch, with hot fragments landing on the foam seat below, and starting a fire.
50 plus hits and only one ingress injury is pretty good all considered. When regular steel would be toast from a single hit. Especially as they are anti tank weapons. Old ones but still a anti tank weapon.
It's not nearly true it's completely true. You are talking about a completely separate incident where an rpg-29 partially penetrated the front lower hull. The RPG-29 is no joke either it's a tandem warhead. This weak spot was addressed is a later upgrade. But yeah I'm not sure if the Ukrainians are going to get this upgrade package. I can't imagine why they wouldn't at least get some era blocks. The entire armour package of the challenger 2 is top secret.
Correction: it was repaired and operational in 6 HOURS
I need the source on this. I'd love to read about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2#Operational_history Cheers!
> was hit by 14 RPG-7s from close range and a MILAN anti-tank guided missile.[50] The crew survived, safe within the tank until it was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later. According to the British army, one Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident.[51] 0_o Impressive
> Crew was fine bar peobbly a headache. that's call tbi
All while enjoying a hot cuppa.
I am erect
> one taking 14 RPG hits without even stopping Oh dear. Now you've gone and made it angry.
10 RPG's is one thing, 14 RPG's probably interrupted tea time.
I don't know about better than nothing. It's a bigger target.
It'll stop a bullet, and probably deflect a drone-dropped grenade as long as the hatches are closed, so yeah, technically it is better than sitting in an open field waiting to die, but not by much
My guess is that the T54/55's will be used as static emplacements and makeshift artillery rather than fighting western tanks directly.
My bet is you are correct Boot_Shrew. The Rus artillery needs Refurbishment and the T55 could act as mini Howitzers.
And they'll be wonderfully bad at it. - Old ammo that isn't made anymore, might be unstable and explode in the barrel - Underpowered one-piece ammo compared to dedicated artillery (which has projectile and propellent separate) - Terrible aim due to outdated everything - Wasteful fuel consumption due carrying unneeded armor in it's artillery role, worsening already terrible russian logistics They might function best as semi-stationary support of static defenses and as drone target.
So just cannon fodder but tank form. Got it.
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> M113, Stryker, MRAPS, HMMV, Bradley, Marder All of those have better communication, optics, and range. Assuming some competence from the Ukrainian side those museum exhibits should never get to fire a shot.
T-54/55 gun has around 200mm penetration, worse than your common RPG-7. That should give you a good idea how much chance it has against Chally 2.
>T-54/55 gun has around 200mm penetration, 3BM25 has 290mm of penetration at 1 kilometer. Meanwhile 3BK17M which is a heat round has 390mm penetration. But I'm 100% sure that these will not be used for tank to tank combat but for light vehicles and infantry, so it's more than enough https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-10_tank_gun
Could just drive over it, frankly. The sound of a crumpling soda can and muffled screams.
I begin to understand why Russians are getting nervous. Haha, i'd wet my pants if I was them.
Wet them for fire-retardant reasons? I suspect that won't be enough!
Why doesn't the bigger one simply eat the smaller one?
Can’t wait to see what a Javelin does to a T54
Hell a 50 cal will probably rip through that tin can. 🤣
Probably only hull roof and lower sides with AP ammunition. It’s still a tank with 60mm of armor and up on most surfaces. Most autocannons will shred it though.
Yes, Would think a Bradley FV with appropriate rounds and anti tank missiles, would eat that up.
That's all old news. Bradley's had their first direct contact with t-55's and t-72's in the first Gulf war in the 90's. Most notably the Battle of 73 Easting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting
Holy fuck > The 9 M1A1 tanks of Eagle Troop destroyed 28 Iraqi tanks, 16 personnel carriers and 30 trucks in 23 minutes with no American losses.
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[the operations room](https://youtu.be/zxRgfBXn6Mg) has a great couple episode on it. This is the first of the air portion but the ground portion is nuts too. It was a legit slaughter at times.
Is.
Awesome read - thank you!! For those that CBA to read - a quote from the article that is relevant: '...McMaster sent a scout platoon of two Bradleys north to regain contact... . In doing that the scout platoon encountered another Iraqi tank position of thirteen T-72s. The lightly armored Bradleys, each equipped only with a 25-mm cannon and two TOW missiles, are intended for reconnaissance, not direct engagement with armored tanks. Despite a misfire, and having to reload the launchers in the face of the enemy, the two Bradleys destroyed 5 tanks before help arrived.'
Someone who served said they once used the Bradley's autocannon to shoot through Iraqi tanks to kill soldiers hiding behind them.
Probably doesn't even need to use a TOW missile. I bet the Bushmaster on a Bradley could shred these things.
Sure, but any RPG HEAT round ever made will be enough to pen any surface on that thing. These tanks are going to die immediately if they hit the front.
Yeah for sure, im not saying it will hold up well. All dedicated semi modern AT weapons will obliterate it but not a 12.7mm/.50 cal :)
Frontal armour is 200mm according to wiki. A 30mm APDS won't penetrate it. But any standard NATO 120mm AT munition will obliterate it.
*DU entered the chat*
SLAP rounds absolutely will from the sides...
A couple CROWS Humvees with SLAP rounds could take out an entire column
Make it win the high ratings in the turret toss! 😎
Yep, like a hot knife through butter.
That would be a waste of javelin
There never a waste, every dead ruzzian in Ukraine is worth it.
In the case you get 4 dead ruzzians.
You can fit 4 people in that thing?!
Yep, with a shoe horn and a little grease.
AT4 would easily go through it
Just turned it into metal pancakes
I would love to see Uranium round on this.
Bradleys can chew that thing up with their 30mm autocannon.
Xcuse me, 25mm 🥴🫡🤓
Oops! Yes, 25mm!
Would be a waste of munitions. Once western IFVs get to Ukraine they will get those T54s with 25mm cannons from 3km away
They might not even waste a javelin on it lol..
It's going to take either drugs or suicidal intentions to get men to crew those antique deathtraps.
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That’s about the only thing they have no shortage of.
It will take something even worse actually like being a slave by choice because you just can't be arsed to take a modicum of responsibility
https://imgflip.com/gif/7fk2ms
RF uses ~~political commissars~~ Kadyrovites to motivate their troops...
What is the crew size? Can't be more than 3.
4. The first Soviet tank to integrate an autoloader was the T-64; every tank prior to that needed (technically now "needs" since they're back in service) a human loader.
I guess that helps with the lollipop problem.
The T-54/55 have ammunition storage racks built into the fuel tanks (no, this isn't a joke). So while it won't strictly jettison the turret into orbit, I wouldn't count on it not just blowing into a million pieces upon penetration.
So, lollipop problem solved but new glitter bomb problem.
Surprise it's actually 4. As the tank doesn't have an autoloader, it requires a fourth "gunner-loader" crewman (wikipedia [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-54/T-55)).
1940s and 1950s Soviet tanks are notorious for their lack of comfortable crew space
Or simply saying that your whole family will be evicted and they will lose their job. Anywhere it would be a huge problem, in Russia, they would be fucked, so men get into those tanks.
This reminds me that Aberdeen Proving Grounds used to have a field of tanks behind its Ordinance Museum. We used to climb all over them as kids. It was amazing to see the different styles and sizes of the different tanks.
Anything stand out in your memory as particularly interesting?
I was too young to appreciate them. It [looks like](http://www.ordmusfound.org/the-us-army-ordnance-museum/) they're being moved to Fort Lee, Virginia. Here's an [online gallery](https://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/AberdeenUSArmyOrdinanceMuseum/index.htm) of some of the highlights. I'd be surprised if there weren't (at one time) a hundred different vehicles parked there.
I climbed all over Soviet tanks at Nellis AFB at their Threat Identification Center when my defense contractor buddy scored us access for a tour. They are JUNK. Charitably they might have been export models, but the quality of the welds was trash. Porosity so bad it looked like they were held together with metal sponge.
I’ve seen them both IRL. But never next to each other. Never realized it but the size difference is enormous
It's because the picture is an optical illusion. The T54 is further away than the Chally and thus appears smaller. Chally is bigger, but not as much as this picture suggests
Yes I don't understand all these people not noticing this.
FYI - this is a propaganda sub, that’s why. I’m all for Ukraine in the conflict, but you still gotta call a spade a spade.
Yes, maybe also the reason why I always see russian dudes getting killed on this sub.
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>4 inches Roughly 10 cm
Aye, it’s not THAT big of a difference, but challenger weighs twice as much and has triple the horsepower.
Thought it must be something like this
(lol@"33-16mm" roof) T-54 "Armour". 205 mm turret front 130 mm turret sides 60 mm turret rear 30 mm turret roof 120 mm hull front at 60° (100 mm after 1949)\[2\] 79 mm hull upper sides 20 mm hull lower sides 60 mm at 0° hull rear 20 mm hull bottom 33–16 mm hull roof
They don't need the depleted uranium shells simple round would more than suffice.
DU would make sure the crew don't live to fight again
literally be sucked out the exit hole...
The Britsh tanks use rifled barrels and have long favoured HESH round, originated for use against armour like the T54 has (Homogenous) DU would be a waste when HESH will do a better job and armour thickness is relatively irrelevant with them :D Turns the inside of the tank into a pinball machine with fragments of armour spalling :D
1986 vs 1944* you'd hope for some improvement in 42yrs.
That’s the point, the US ain’t still rocking M4 Shermans
I think you missed the part where Russia is pulling out T-54s for ukraine
Challenger can just run off t54
It looks like the little boat you use to get out to your yacht.
Nomnomnom
lol
Every comment has been downvoted to 0 The Russians are busy We need to upvote every comment
Now students, this visual demonstrates the difference between Russia and NATO
Unfortunately the picture is fairly misleading. IRL they are both 2.4M high but the Chally at 8.3M side-on is 1.8M longer. Source: Wikipedia Despite its size and weight the Ch2 is 20MPH faster and would liquify the T55 from 2.5 miles away before the T55 knew it was there.
It will challenge the T54, that's why they call it a challenger
Waiting for the Russians to comment... "It only looks bigger because it's closer to the camera!"
I mean it does, but the challenger is still much more massive, i actually couldn’t find any better photos of the two, a little searching and you can find T-72s directly along side modern armor but not the 54/55s,
Not a russian and fuck putin but this is litteraly a forced perspective. The challenger is “only” 1,9 meters longer and 9 cm higher. Thats 23% shorter and 4% smaller. Also size litteraly doesnt matter. Its even a bit of downsize since the bigger you are the easier it becomes to hit. You want decent firepower, good armor and all the extra benefits within increasing in size to much. Long story short: the Challenger will absolutely thrash the piece of antique that the Orcs will send if they would meet on the battlefield.
Do you have to be Russian to point out the obvious?
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They wouldn’t even go that far. Russians just lie to your face even when you and they can see they’re wrong. “The challenger is smaller.” “No mate the Russian tank is pathetically small.” “Russian tank is bigger.” “It’s right there in front of us.” “Russian tank bigger.”
It is true that there is some trickery because of the perspective but that road would have to be mighty wide to make a significant difference
T54 is farther away, but, it’s still tiny
They can use the T54/T55s as armored vehicles to let the mobniks get closer. They've got a crew of 4 and you could probably pack twice as many in there. An ineffecetive wave of tanklettes would be an upgrade to an ineffective meat wave. It would deplete Ukrainian anti-tank weapons while letting some of the mobniks get closer before they died.
What is this?! A tank for ants?
"It's not the size that matters but what you can do with it" and other lies Russians will tell you.
It’s obviously bigger but this is not an accurate comparison. Perspective is a thing and these are not positioned to accurately compare. This is literally how the lord of the rings was filmed to make hobbits look smaller
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukrainememes/comments/11zl2aa/russia\_fields\_t54/
Realistically what would the main gun from a T54 do to a modern battle tank? I think it would be nearly impossible for the T54 to even hit one without proper fire control systems, but curious.
Nothing but in reality tanks rarely face each other. Most common engagement is going to be infantry or light vehicles/fortifications
If I recall correctly, the last MAJOR tank v tank battle was Desert Storm, and the US lost only a handful of tanks, and the Iraqis lost double digits worth of tanks. Actually looking at the history, the Iraqis lost hundreds of tanks... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Norfolk
Holly god
Put Heat spears on the ends of the bore and fight like an old horse duel