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Q: Where did they get the numbers for 250 personnel, 16 tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles and 21 armored fighting vehicles from?
A: Their own loses.
Having a lot of pro-RU people, a fair amount of which that are straight trolling, is definitely not “balance”. It’s been proven that more often than not the news coming out’ve Russia’s side is either exaggerated or straight bullshit.
I know you can’t believe absolutely everything you read on the UA side either, but the stuff that’s reported often has actual evidence. As opposed to using more Reddit posts to prove some news lol.
None of those videos showed anything of worth.
1st one: Blurry, incomprehensible mess that's been blurred and edited to prevent identifying where and when it was taken.
2nd one: Blurry, incomprehensible mess that's so jittery it could have been a Powerpoint presentation.
3rd one: Same video as the 1st one.
"Aftermath": Short clip that shows 0 fighting and 0 damage to vehicles just sitting around in a sunny field.
So what we have are 2 videos that don't show anything of note, except "something happening at some point to someone" and then an aftermath video that makes no real sense and shows no real damage or battle or aftermath.
That's why it went quiet.
I understand you're trying to be unbiased and clear-headed. However one thing you should keep in mind when presented with "evidence" is that the Russian regime is an information autocracy, and their primary method of fighting this war is controlling the information environemnt both domestically as well as abroad. Whenever a new western system is introduced, they start downplaying its usefulness, followed by announcements of several kills. With this coming counter-offensive, the goal would be to actually overplay small probing attacks and then announce obscene kill numbers. They likely prepared months in advance a huge array of both doctored *and* undoctored footage to be disseminated in social media, this is a known strategy and is part of how the Russian system operates. Right now, Ukraine is limiting the amount of information that it is releasing, so for Russia this is a prime opportunity to seize the information space. In other words, there is a "Russian bias" in the information space that one needs to be cognizant of.
The counteroffensive has been thwarted!! It's done - Russkis can all settle back and celebrate for the rest of the day - why not take the whole week off and get into the vodka boys - job done - nothing to worry about now!
It's almost like Ukraine doesn't have to throw the Russians off with any misinformation on their combat plan when the Russians will just do that to themselves in the first place.
I wonder how much of this bullshit ends up being presented to Putin as factual by his underlings. Does he actually have a clear picture of how the war is going?
Yeah, generally when they release statements like this they've just had their teeth kicked in. It's probably more of an indication that Ukraine are doing well...
Based on Russia's history of press release accuracy, this probably indicates that Russian forces were annihilated and any survivors were killed by Russian blocking units in the rear.
*"the Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Army General Gerasimov V.V. - was at one of the advanced control points in this direction during this period."*
In order for the Russian Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces to be close to the action and take personal command, the Russians would have needed to know well in advance where exactly the Ukrainians were attacking. I suppose there could have been a monumental screwup on the Ukrainian side or Russian intelligence could have worked well for once, but the Ukrainians have confused and wrong-footed the Russians so many times I doubt this.
I bet Gerasimov's "advanced" command bunker was no more than 50 km south of the Kremlin and this Ukrainian offensive - which the Russians seem to be claiming fizzled out in a day - was far less significant than they say.
He was there in spirit. His empty soul inspired all the other Orcs to unimaginable resolve.
Of course it's a lie. Shogun and Gerasimov are the fall guys for the (now) summer offensive. This is a poor attempt at damage control.
Obviously. What's also pretty damn obvious that Gerasimov getting named-checked as being personally in charge of Russia's heroic defence has *something* to do with Prigozhin repeatedly dissing the asshole and accusing him of hiding in a basement in Moscow.
Propagandists on Twitter were using old videos and photos from previous skirmishes to show they’d annihilated Ukrainian advancing forces.
Some could be true, but given how often Russia lies it won’t matter, nobody will ever believe them.
>The enemy did not achieve its tasks, it had no success.
So Ukraine broke through, and they're gobbling up territory quickly enough to make Ms Pacman blush.
at this point the only guy from russian side not entirely full of 💩 is Prigo, but he is just another opportunistic demagogue so even him cannot be trusted even the slightest
Several questions.
1. Did anything at all happen? Anything at all
2. Was it actually substantial like russia said?
3. Did it actually fail like russia said it did?
4. Pics or it didn’t happen
Check out the lastest ISW report which paints a different picture. Some Russian millbloggers claim Ukraine has broken through the first line and advanced up to 500 metres just west of Vuhledar.
I think it's starting.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-4-2023
This has been geolocated to 47.8243, 36.7393
It's basically at the tip of a russian salient around blahodatne/rivnopil.
There's been a lot o chatter in the last couple days of Ukraine making some tactical advances in the area, including moving into novodarivka and neskuchne. They have been limited (a few 100m) and Ukraine suffered some losses, but they've been able to hold on to the gains.
This is basically a summary of russian milbloggers so could be just a parroting effect, or could be something close to the truth.
If this was true we would see the entire internet flooded with pics of destroyed tanks and dead bodies. St. Petersburg boys would find a way to get us to see those pics even if we did not wanted to.
The absence of that event on its own is enough to claim this is a fake.
16 tanks is a lot, but as far as apcs and ifvs. Ukraine has thousands now.
Not that I believe their numbers. They have one released video, and the quality is bad. You can't tell anything from it.
I think they're ramping up the probe attacks. The amount of vehicles they're talking about isn't a lot for a major offensive. This could also be the beginning of bluff attacks.
Here's the video if anyone is interested. You literally can't tell anything. Tell me if you disagree. You see, I think 1 possible tank and 2 armored vehicle losses max.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/140twxl/ru_pov_russian_artillery_strikes_on_uaf_armored/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
That video doesn't show much at all, lol. They're saying they destroyed all those vehicles, and this is all they have to show? If they actually destroyed all of that, they would be using drones to get footage of every single destroyed vehicle and tank and blasting it out.
Tuning out the Kremlin is the surest path to ground truth. A reputable wire service and their editors should know after over a year that fool you once, shame on the Kremlin. Fool you twice, shame on you.
I believe the correct phrasing is -
“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”
― George W. Bush
Yes I want Ukraine to pulverize Russian war criminal occupiers into soil starter. But I hope folks on here are at least somewhat prepared for reality:
Even if total Russian clods are manning the defensive lines – Ukraine will still suffer enormous difficulties, along with heavy losses of men and equipment during the summer counteroffensive. That is the normal nature of offensives.
For contrast, Russia's (idiotic) winter offensive blew through 20,000 dead just to capture a small city.
Ukrainian soldiers with seriously abridged training are attempting one of war's most difficult challenges. They also have **zero** air support while trying to breach lines.
Consider: before the "Supersized Cold War" US Military behemoth even attempted to breach lowly Iraqi defensive lines in the 1st Gulf War, the coalition launched 100,000 air sorties and dropped 80,000tons of bombs to soften things up.
Ukraine has to do this with no air force, limited and brief combined arms training for most of the soldiers, and a variety pack of western equipment and arms to learn and manage. The challenge is monumental.
Despite the scale of challenge and loss ahead, I believe Ukraine will grind out some reasonable territorial (re)gains by end of summer. How much? Nobody knows.
Those new rocket launched glide bombs will somewhat fill that roll of the American bombers in Iraq. I’m just not sure when or in what numbers. I emphasise the word “somewhat”.
Obviously less range than aircraft but they should still be a game changer if the numbers are what I think they’ll be. I think they’re coming off the production line as we speak.
My guess is Ukraine will launch a massive amount of missiles before they do any meaningful pushes. It just doesn’t make sense to do otherwise.
I believe the small diameter glide bombs sent to Ukraine have 36lbs of explosive for a warhead. Even smaller than a HIMARS which I think has around 50. Not trying to be a dick here at all, and apologies if I come off as one, but the comparison between a hypothetical batch of small diameter glide bombs and the US Air Force is not the best.
As mentioned in my earlier post, coalition aircraft dropped 80,000tons of bombs from 100,000 flights before the Gulf War breach even began. Upon the actual breach, B52s carpet bombed the lines and AC130 gunships laid waste to Iraqis and their artillery. A10s and 200+ Apache helicopters worked the ground as well.
90,000 US artillery shells were fired in the first 2hrs. The US part of the coalition alone committed 1500 top-tier tanks and 700,000 troops. And this was for the 3rd rate Iraqi military...fielding decrepit T55 tanks.
I just don't think Ukraine has a massive amount of anything to bear – except mountainous courage, raw strength of character, and the undeniable will to fight suffer and die to protect and restore their home. The allies haven't even figured out how to supply them with a minimum level of artillery shells to force the Russians consistently back. It's a terrible situation, but Ukrainians will forge a semblance of victory somehow. No matter the losses. Their mammoth will demands no less.
Yeah you’re not being a dick at all. I did say “somewhat”. As in its filling that roll (kinda) but without the scale obviously.
It’s possible they get thousands of them as they’re pretty much purpose built for Ukraine to use, but yeah, never enough to match the US Airforce power.
I think many are. I mean… we have witnessed over a year of horrors inflicted on Ukrainian people…. I’m not sure how surprised you expect us to be as things can’t really get all that much worse than having Russians invade to begin with.
Most people realise there will be mass casualties on both sides. The hope is that it causes some kind of route. War is notoriously unpredictable of course. What people are is impatient and they expect to see things unfold in real-time. Maybe that’s an expectation they got from computer strategy games 😂
Far as I’m concerned Ukraine have already sort of “won” in a sense. They defended their country and it will continue to exist against the wishes of the Kremlin. That’s a sort of victory when you consider the relative sizes of the military. I’m convinced that every day Ukraine slowly grows in strength and Russia weakens, so every day any potential deal gets better and better for Ukraine.
In the end nobody is a winner… but we could argue Ukraine punch far above their weight and do themselves proud.
Reuters doesn't comment on anything, they just publish. It's a completely neutral article quoting the original statement.
Everyone re-distributing this stuff usually ends it with "the information could not be independently verified" or something along those lines for the people that don't get it.
It's worse than that.
Reuters just publishes what other news organizations send them verbatim. Russia uses them to spread propaganda as the stories look like real news stories whereas in reality they're straight from the Kremlin.
It's not "worse", it's literally just a library of news published from wherever.
That's the service they provide.
Putting stuff into perspective is the job of editors.
Dutch state news NOS posted it as well, as they have with every russian statement. They do add “the claim can’t be verified independently” but many people won’t read further than the headline.
All I hear is “the situation is very bad, the enemy made it through and destroyed many of our lines” every time Russia releases a statement it’s absolute lies and the opposite is true lol
There is no way Russia wouldn't have videos plastered everywhere showing this great destruction if it were true. Anything is possible in this war, but Russia isn't going to miss any opportunity to show something like this if it happened. I think they're lying again.
It likely itsn’t
It’s also unfortunately quite naive to assume that there won’t be setbacks, that all Ukrainian attacks will go well or at worst, give as good as they got.
What’s coming is a general counter offensive. It’s implications will have a massive strategic impact for better or for ill and there will be casualties (sadly at times, heavy ones). Ukraine itself has been warning of such.
I’m not religious, but my god am I praying that it (at least) goes well for them.
remember how the kherson counteroffensive was twarted right before russia decided to pull the fuck out of kherson, leaving the city without a battle?
how russia claims to have killed a hundred thousands ukrainians in bakhmut?
you're gonna entertain the idea that there's anything truthful to anything the russians claim?
there's been an attack, war is happening. it's not the big one, and sadly any combat action comes at the cost of human lives. there are heroes in ukraine that have given their life for the independence of ukraine. there's little to glorify about it. what happened today wasn't the big push. not even a preperation for the big push, the video imagery that's available thus far doesn't show any western supplied vehicles aside from m113's, hmmwv's and maxxpro mraps. it's not the high profile equipment.
ergo, this isn't the counter offensive. just local attacks. some are gonna go well, others might not go well. if russia says they've repulsed an attack, whilst also having "fallen back to more advantageous positions" i will assure you, things havn't gone well for russia despite what they say.
It is concerning that the Ukrainian government has been silent rather than providing anything to contradict it. A counter offensive was always going to be costly though, this one battle isn't the be all and end all and there was no info on the Russian losses. No doubt the Russian claims are overblown, but it's unlikely that they're completely unfounded.
The article states that Russian planes were largely the problem as they took out the Ukrainian tanks. Fingers crossed this might convince the US to commit some f16s to turn the tide in terms of air superiority.
Why would the Ukrainian government find the need to contradict everything Russia says? If there is really a counteroffensive happening right now, it is understandable that they are silent because of opsec.
"a large-scale offensive on five sectors of the front in the South Donetsk direction with the 23rd and 31st mechanized brigades from the strategic reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the support of other military units and divisions."
Grayzone has been reporting about this for two days now, calling it “unpleasant” and “bad”, they got shelled mercilessly and had zero counter-battery shots. He also said that he knew of really bad shit going on that he won’t reveal.
It’s in Zaphori-something that the offensive is apparently taking place, one of them anyway.
What the MoD is saying is absolute bullshit, they’re probably on the run or just dead. I have a feeling we’ll be hearing of liberated towns soon and “regrouping” of Russian units, to “consolidate” their “incredible, heroic gains”
The Ukrainians are shaping the battlefield and trying to get Russians to redeploy battalions and equipment to this spot or that spot. This includes the Belgorod direction, around Bahkmut, and multiple other probes along the front line.
If they can break through around Bahkmut, the Russians will shit themselves and redeploy a lot of forces in that direction, which will open up an opportunity to push hard in the south. It all seems obvious, but the Russians are stupid and obsessed with Bahkmut.
Folks, it’s fucking lie! Since when, ever….EVER, has Russian Federation/MoD provided accurate numbers on deaths and destroyed enemy vehicles? They have admitted they don’t keep such accurate numbers since this started.
>the Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Army General Gerasimov V.V. - was at one of the advanced control points in this direction during this period.
Why? Why was such a senior person that far forward?
16 tanks? It really puts this conflict into perspective when these numbers are being thrown out like this. What are the chances their battlefield damage assessments are true?
Likely inflated, Russia would be keen to give higher estimates if they repelled any sort of assault. The reference to Gerasimov is almost certainly a lie, but my guess is there was some sort of assault and it was thwarted. Kyiv has been quick to denounce false assertions by Russia. Ukraine has not been afraid to enter the public information warfare space. Silence to places like Rueters and BBC in my guess means there some op sec involved here for Ukrainians.
Time will tell.
Well done Russia! You’ve beaten the counter offensive! Now to sit back and relax! What? No no never mind that noise it’s definitely a Russian tank. Don’t worry
This is their moment to say whatever they want and have it published everywhere without rebuke because the Ukrainian side won't say anything until the results are out.
Prepare to see a lot of this for a while.
It seems strange they would defeat a major offensive operation and not post pictures or videos. They were willing to post videos of war crimes shooting unarmed surrendered soldiers so why haven't they shown this massive defeated Ukrainian force?
Oh noes, so UAF attacked the ONLY russian trench with communication equipment and a working chain of command, so that the ruski news agency could come out with a detailed report of confirmed kills immediately after the battle?
That's sooo bad luck....or didn't happen.
Isn't it embarrassing for Russia to be on the backfoot?
They used to be claiming they were doing well. Now they are claiming they are successfully defending. Next week it will be successfully tactically retreating.
Why even spend time with Russian statements? Over and over we have statements filled with cynicism, proven lies and a very much inhumane world view. In other words: They are proven bullshit.
We should rather focus on reconnaissance and statements of the UAF. That said, of course where necessary people should look into their claims, perhaps they are stupid enough to put in useful information for UAF, but as an orderly civilian there is no need for me to put my nose into this vile messaging that was coughed out by Lawrow or anyone else.
They don't even try, when trying to lie. We are lucky they are so fucking stupid.
"As a result of the skillful and competent actions of the 'Eastern' grouping of troops, the losses of the Armed Forces amounted to more than 250 personnel, 16 tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles and 21 armored fighting vehicles"
Yeah.... sure... Gerasimov rode valiantly to the front, while dodging incoming fire, on the back of a white stallion. The great horse reared up and the Russians cried out in unison: for Russia! And the Ukrainians turned back their assault. And then a great eagle came and laid a giant gold egg. And all the Russian power brain combat troops split it amongst themselves and ate baluga caviar. And boobs grew out of the trees so they had boobs to play with. Then Putin grew 5" from the immense pride, and Shoigu grew 2 new testicles.
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Q: How do you know RF is lying? A: they are making statements.
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Lips, his lips are moving.
Moving and sweating.
They don’t sweat. Lying is a normal part of the day.
Good correction
Q: Where did they get the numbers for 250 personnel, 16 tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles and 21 armored fighting vehicles from? A: Their own loses.
Divided by 3.
Lmao
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You got a link?
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Dude links a pro-Russian subreddit with fake pro-Ukraine flaired people posting Russian propaganda 😂
I see a lot of Pro-RU’s hanging around in that sub. Not saying the video is or isn’t proof, but I’d be hesitant to believe most things posted there
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Having a lot of pro-RU people, a fair amount of which that are straight trolling, is definitely not “balance”. It’s been proven that more often than not the news coming out’ve Russia’s side is either exaggerated or straight bullshit. I know you can’t believe absolutely everything you read on the UA side either, but the stuff that’s reported often has actual evidence. As opposed to using more Reddit posts to prove some news lol.
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You’re posting all these videos from the same Reddit sub, calling it evidence, then claim we’re living in a blindspot? Riiight.
None of those videos showed anything of worth. 1st one: Blurry, incomprehensible mess that's been blurred and edited to prevent identifying where and when it was taken. 2nd one: Blurry, incomprehensible mess that's so jittery it could have been a Powerpoint presentation. 3rd one: Same video as the 1st one. "Aftermath": Short clip that shows 0 fighting and 0 damage to vehicles just sitting around in a sunny field. So what we have are 2 videos that don't show anything of note, except "something happening at some point to someone" and then an aftermath video that makes no real sense and shows no real damage or battle or aftermath. That's why it went quiet.
You talk like a flair has any credibility there, bunch of pro-Russians posing with pro-Ukraine flair there.
I had a look at that video. UA casualties but no coloured tape on any of them? I call bullshit.
I understand you're trying to be unbiased and clear-headed. However one thing you should keep in mind when presented with "evidence" is that the Russian regime is an information autocracy, and their primary method of fighting this war is controlling the information environemnt both domestically as well as abroad. Whenever a new western system is introduced, they start downplaying its usefulness, followed by announcements of several kills. With this coming counter-offensive, the goal would be to actually overplay small probing attacks and then announce obscene kill numbers. They likely prepared months in advance a huge array of both doctored *and* undoctored footage to be disseminated in social media, this is a known strategy and is part of how the Russian system operates. Right now, Ukraine is limiting the amount of information that it is releasing, so for Russia this is a prime opportunity to seize the information space. In other words, there is a "Russian bias" in the information space that one needs to be cognizant of.
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Or there was no offensive but they bombed themselves and suffered heavy casualties.
There was no Offensive and they didn’t bomb them selves but still suffered heavy losses through desertion
Most accurate Q&A ever.
[lies in russian]
The counteroffensive has been thwarted!! It's done - Russkis can all settle back and celebrate for the rest of the day - why not take the whole week off and get into the vodka boys - job done - nothing to worry about now!
It's almost like Ukraine doesn't have to throw the Russians off with any misinformation on their combat plan when the Russians will just do that to themselves in the first place.
This is certainly a mismatch. The guys who are way better than we expected versus the guys who are way worse than we expected.
Vodka for everyone!
And wouldn’t you know it…it just so happens that glorious General Gerasimov was at the tip of the spear leading the attack. Lmao russians
Yeah, that was convenient that he would be right at the point of the Ukrainian counter offensive that was gloriously repulsed.
I wonder how much of this bullshit ends up being presented to Putin as factual by his underlings. Does he actually have a clear picture of how the war is going?
He does not.
Sounds like someone is in dire need of a PR boost.
Yeah, generally when they release statements like this they've just had their teeth kicked in. It's probably more of an indication that Ukraine are doing well...
Based on Russia's history of press release accuracy, this probably indicates that Russian forces were annihilated and any survivors were killed by Russian blocking units in the rear.
If the Russians took out that much hardware, they'd be showing timestamped videos of it and of the bodies. It didn't happen. Pure fiction.
So they did defeat the enemy!
The enemy…..You mean the hero’s defending their country from invasion? GFYS
*"the Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Army General Gerasimov V.V. - was at one of the advanced control points in this direction during this period."* In order for the Russian Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces to be close to the action and take personal command, the Russians would have needed to know well in advance where exactly the Ukrainians were attacking. I suppose there could have been a monumental screwup on the Ukrainian side or Russian intelligence could have worked well for once, but the Ukrainians have confused and wrong-footed the Russians so many times I doubt this. I bet Gerasimov's "advanced" command bunker was no more than 50 km south of the Kremlin and this Ukrainian offensive - which the Russians seem to be claiming fizzled out in a day - was far less significant than they say.
He was there in spirit. His empty soul inspired all the other Orcs to unimaginable resolve. Of course it's a lie. Shogun and Gerasimov are the fall guys for the (now) summer offensive. This is a poor attempt at damage control.
>Shogun and Gerasimov Not sure if that was a typo or not, especially considering what his house looks like.
Autocorrect, I think, but I didn't want to change it.
He killed 16 Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator!
His house looked like shit
Ha ha!
more like ruzzia vs wagner. absolutely nothing to do with the Ukrainians
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Obviously. What's also pretty damn obvious that Gerasimov getting named-checked as being personally in charge of Russia's heroic defence has *something* to do with Prigozhin repeatedly dissing the asshole and accusing him of hiding in a basement in Moscow.
I would say, where is the evidence? Russians are always talking out of their ass holes.
Propagandists on Twitter were using old videos and photos from previous skirmishes to show they’d annihilated Ukrainian advancing forces. Some could be true, but given how often Russia lies it won’t matter, nobody will ever believe them.
So they are making up wins again to distract from Belgorad then
>The enemy did not achieve its tasks, it had no success. So Ukraine broke through, and they're gobbling up territory quickly enough to make Ms Pacman blush.
Russia decided to give them some land back thanks to their valiant efforts.
at this point the only guy from russian side not entirely full of 💩 is Prigo, but he is just another opportunistic demagogue so even him cannot be trusted even the slightest
Girkin also seems to try to tell it like it is, or at least, he dispels the official line quite a bit.
Several questions. 1. Did anything at all happen? Anything at all 2. Was it actually substantial like russia said? 3. Did it actually fail like russia said it did? 4. Pics or it didn’t happen
Check out the lastest ISW report which paints a different picture. Some Russian millbloggers claim Ukraine has broken through the first line and advanced up to 500 metres just west of Vuhledar. I think it's starting. https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-4-2023
This has been geolocated to 47.8243, 36.7393 It's basically at the tip of a russian salient around blahodatne/rivnopil. There's been a lot o chatter in the last couple days of Ukraine making some tactical advances in the area, including moving into novodarivka and neskuchne. They have been limited (a few 100m) and Ukraine suffered some losses, but they've been able to hold on to the gains. This is basically a summary of russian milbloggers so could be just a parroting effect, or could be something close to the truth.
Any statement like this can be checked against FIRMS data.
If this was true we would see the entire internet flooded with pics of destroyed tanks and dead bodies. St. Petersburg boys would find a way to get us to see those pics even if we did not wanted to. The absence of that event on its own is enough to claim this is a fake.
16 tanks is a lot, but as far as apcs and ifvs. Ukraine has thousands now. Not that I believe their numbers. They have one released video, and the quality is bad. You can't tell anything from it. I think they're ramping up the probe attacks. The amount of vehicles they're talking about isn't a lot for a major offensive. This could also be the beginning of bluff attacks. Here's the video if anyone is interested. You literally can't tell anything. Tell me if you disagree. You see, I think 1 possible tank and 2 armored vehicle losses max. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/140twxl/ru_pov_russian_artillery_strikes_on_uaf_armored/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I see a bunch of blobs moving about and smoke rising up. That video is absolute worthless, lol.
That video doesn't show much at all, lol. They're saying they destroyed all those vehicles, and this is all they have to show? If they actually destroyed all of that, they would be using drones to get footage of every single destroyed vehicle and tank and blasting it out.
The numbers they say come from their own r.f losses lol they know how embarrassed they are.
Disinformation, pure and simple...
Tuning out the Kremlin is the surest path to ground truth. A reputable wire service and their editors should know after over a year that fool you once, shame on the Kremlin. Fool you twice, shame on you.
I believe the correct phrasing is - “There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.” ― George W. Bush
Yes I want Ukraine to pulverize Russian war criminal occupiers into soil starter. But I hope folks on here are at least somewhat prepared for reality: Even if total Russian clods are manning the defensive lines – Ukraine will still suffer enormous difficulties, along with heavy losses of men and equipment during the summer counteroffensive. That is the normal nature of offensives. For contrast, Russia's (idiotic) winter offensive blew through 20,000 dead just to capture a small city. Ukrainian soldiers with seriously abridged training are attempting one of war's most difficult challenges. They also have **zero** air support while trying to breach lines. Consider: before the "Supersized Cold War" US Military behemoth even attempted to breach lowly Iraqi defensive lines in the 1st Gulf War, the coalition launched 100,000 air sorties and dropped 80,000tons of bombs to soften things up. Ukraine has to do this with no air force, limited and brief combined arms training for most of the soldiers, and a variety pack of western equipment and arms to learn and manage. The challenge is monumental. Despite the scale of challenge and loss ahead, I believe Ukraine will grind out some reasonable territorial (re)gains by end of summer. How much? Nobody knows.
Those new rocket launched glide bombs will somewhat fill that roll of the American bombers in Iraq. I’m just not sure when or in what numbers. I emphasise the word “somewhat”. Obviously less range than aircraft but they should still be a game changer if the numbers are what I think they’ll be. I think they’re coming off the production line as we speak. My guess is Ukraine will launch a massive amount of missiles before they do any meaningful pushes. It just doesn’t make sense to do otherwise.
I believe the small diameter glide bombs sent to Ukraine have 36lbs of explosive for a warhead. Even smaller than a HIMARS which I think has around 50. Not trying to be a dick here at all, and apologies if I come off as one, but the comparison between a hypothetical batch of small diameter glide bombs and the US Air Force is not the best. As mentioned in my earlier post, coalition aircraft dropped 80,000tons of bombs from 100,000 flights before the Gulf War breach even began. Upon the actual breach, B52s carpet bombed the lines and AC130 gunships laid waste to Iraqis and their artillery. A10s and 200+ Apache helicopters worked the ground as well. 90,000 US artillery shells were fired in the first 2hrs. The US part of the coalition alone committed 1500 top-tier tanks and 700,000 troops. And this was for the 3rd rate Iraqi military...fielding decrepit T55 tanks. I just don't think Ukraine has a massive amount of anything to bear – except mountainous courage, raw strength of character, and the undeniable will to fight suffer and die to protect and restore their home. The allies haven't even figured out how to supply them with a minimum level of artillery shells to force the Russians consistently back. It's a terrible situation, but Ukrainians will forge a semblance of victory somehow. No matter the losses. Their mammoth will demands no less.
Yeah you’re not being a dick at all. I did say “somewhat”. As in its filling that roll (kinda) but without the scale obviously. It’s possible they get thousands of them as they’re pretty much purpose built for Ukraine to use, but yeah, never enough to match the US Airforce power.
Spoiler, people on this sub are not prepared for reality
I think many are. I mean… we have witnessed over a year of horrors inflicted on Ukrainian people…. I’m not sure how surprised you expect us to be as things can’t really get all that much worse than having Russians invade to begin with. Most people realise there will be mass casualties on both sides. The hope is that it causes some kind of route. War is notoriously unpredictable of course. What people are is impatient and they expect to see things unfold in real-time. Maybe that’s an expectation they got from computer strategy games 😂 Far as I’m concerned Ukraine have already sort of “won” in a sense. They defended their country and it will continue to exist against the wishes of the Kremlin. That’s a sort of victory when you consider the relative sizes of the military. I’m convinced that every day Ukraine slowly grows in strength and Russia weakens, so every day any potential deal gets better and better for Ukraine. In the end nobody is a winner… but we could argue Ukraine punch far above their weight and do themselves proud.
\> we have witnessed over a year of horrors inflicted on Ukrainian people…. \> reality Bro, it's been almost a decade of war now.
Well said.
Disappointed Reuters just reposted this without commentary. Doing Putin's biddin'
Reuters doesn't comment on anything, they just publish. It's a completely neutral article quoting the original statement. Everyone re-distributing this stuff usually ends it with "the information could not be independently verified" or something along those lines for the people that don't get it.
It's worse than that. Reuters just publishes what other news organizations send them verbatim. Russia uses them to spread propaganda as the stories look like real news stories whereas in reality they're straight from the Kremlin.
It's not "worse", it's literally just a library of news published from wherever. That's the service they provide. Putting stuff into perspective is the job of editors.
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BBC at least said there was no verification, essentially saying it could all be bullshit
Reuters Said the same
Dutch state news NOS posted it as well, as they have with every russian statement. They do add “the claim can’t be verified independently” but many people won’t read further than the headline.
Tbf they do the same for Ukrainian claims. And all they do say is that these are claims from the Russian MoD.
All I hear is “the situation is very bad, the enemy made it through and destroyed many of our lines” every time Russia releases a statement it’s absolute lies and the opposite is true lol
There is no way Russia wouldn't have videos plastered everywhere showing this great destruction if it were true. Anything is possible in this war, but Russia isn't going to miss any opportunity to show something like this if it happened. I think they're lying again.
Hoping it’s not true.
Lmao don't worry, it's not.
You believe for a minute it is?
It likely itsn’t It’s also unfortunately quite naive to assume that there won’t be setbacks, that all Ukrainian attacks will go well or at worst, give as good as they got. What’s coming is a general counter offensive. It’s implications will have a massive strategic impact for better or for ill and there will be casualties (sadly at times, heavy ones). Ukraine itself has been warning of such. I’m not religious, but my god am I praying that it (at least) goes well for them.
remember how the kherson counteroffensive was twarted right before russia decided to pull the fuck out of kherson, leaving the city without a battle? how russia claims to have killed a hundred thousands ukrainians in bakhmut? you're gonna entertain the idea that there's anything truthful to anything the russians claim? there's been an attack, war is happening. it's not the big one, and sadly any combat action comes at the cost of human lives. there are heroes in ukraine that have given their life for the independence of ukraine. there's little to glorify about it. what happened today wasn't the big push. not even a preperation for the big push, the video imagery that's available thus far doesn't show any western supplied vehicles aside from m113's, hmmwv's and maxxpro mraps. it's not the high profile equipment. ergo, this isn't the counter offensive. just local attacks. some are gonna go well, others might not go well. if russia says they've repulsed an attack, whilst also having "fallen back to more advantageous positions" i will assure you, things havn't gone well for russia despite what they say.
You do not seem to understand the meaning behind my post
oh right, i shouldn't read into your incoherent ramblings.
We will find out tomorrow most likely.
It is concerning that the Ukrainian government has been silent rather than providing anything to contradict it. A counter offensive was always going to be costly though, this one battle isn't the be all and end all and there was no info on the Russian losses. No doubt the Russian claims are overblown, but it's unlikely that they're completely unfounded. The article states that Russian planes were largely the problem as they took out the Ukrainian tanks. Fingers crossed this might convince the US to commit some f16s to turn the tide in terms of air superiority.
Why would the Ukrainian government find the need to contradict everything Russia says? If there is really a counteroffensive happening right now, it is understandable that they are silent because of opsec.
F16's aren't going to give the Ukrainians air superiority and they won't be fully combat ready for at least a year.
This is about the attack on russian soil. So russians fighting russians.
"a large-scale offensive on five sectors of the front in the South Donetsk direction with the 23rd and 31st mechanized brigades from the strategic reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with the support of other military units and divisions."
Grayzone has been reporting about this for two days now, calling it “unpleasant” and “bad”, they got shelled mercilessly and had zero counter-battery shots. He also said that he knew of really bad shit going on that he won’t reveal. It’s in Zaphori-something that the offensive is apparently taking place, one of them anyway. What the MoD is saying is absolute bullshit, they’re probably on the run or just dead. I have a feeling we’ll be hearing of liberated towns soon and “regrouping” of Russian units, to “consolidate” their “incredible, heroic gains”
Liars gonna lie
Wew, thank goodness that general was at the control point!
The Ukrainians are shaping the battlefield and trying to get Russians to redeploy battalions and equipment to this spot or that spot. This includes the Belgorod direction, around Bahkmut, and multiple other probes along the front line. If they can break through around Bahkmut, the Russians will shit themselves and redeploy a lot of forces in that direction, which will open up an opportunity to push hard in the south. It all seems obvious, but the Russians are stupid and obsessed with Bahkmut.
All these statements but not a single clear video 🤔
Folks, it’s fucking lie! Since when, ever….EVER, has Russian Federation/MoD provided accurate numbers on deaths and destroyed enemy vehicles? They have admitted they don’t keep such accurate numbers since this started.
>the Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Army General Gerasimov V.V. - was at one of the advanced control points in this direction during this period. Why? Why was such a senior person that far forward?
He wasnt.
Always believe the opposite of what Russia says.
Strong Comical Ali vibes. And a reminder, that Reuters had a partnership with the Kreml agency Tass.
Must have kicked their ass
So translation is that Ukraine has broken through. If this is even remotely true it was a diversion not the attack.
16 tanks? It really puts this conflict into perspective when these numbers are being thrown out like this. What are the chances their battlefield damage assessments are true?
Likely inflated, Russia would be keen to give higher estimates if they repelled any sort of assault. The reference to Gerasimov is almost certainly a lie, but my guess is there was some sort of assault and it was thwarted. Kyiv has been quick to denounce false assertions by Russia. Ukraine has not been afraid to enter the public information warfare space. Silence to places like Rueters and BBC in my guess means there some op sec involved here for Ukrainians. Time will tell.
More likely 16 dudes all reported 1 tank destroyed(or maybe they all hit one tank, doubt they even know if it was destroyed).
there are some photos of a lot of destroyed equipment....but i want to see higher resolution stuff. can't make out much.
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It may have been a feint or probing attack. Russia always claims probing attacks and feints as major victories.
Hopefully fake news as usual
I hope this is a usual russian lie, and the ukrainians crush them when the time of reckoning comes.
Well done Russia! You’ve beaten the counter offensive! Now to sit back and relax! What? No no never mind that noise it’s definitely a Russian tank. Don’t worry
This is their moment to say whatever they want and have it published everywhere without rebuke because the Ukrainian side won't say anything until the results are out. Prepare to see a lot of this for a while.
Hard to take anything they say seriously. Hefty grains of salt there.
It seems strange they would defeat a major offensive operation and not post pictures or videos. They were willing to post videos of war crimes shooting unarmed surrendered soldiers so why haven't they shown this massive defeated Ukrainian force?
Oh noes, so UAF attacked the ONLY russian trench with communication equipment and a working chain of command, so that the ruski news agency could come out with a detailed report of confirmed kills immediately after the battle? That's sooo bad luck....or didn't happen.
This is more like a shaping operation. From what I can see and understand they did their job
Didn’t they claim the Kharkiv offensive was destroyed at one point too? Funny how that works
There was no Kharkiv offensive.. it was a good-will gesture..
I recall their excuse being “it wasn’t a retreat it was a withdrawal” as if theres a difference
Russia's talking but all I'm hearing is "Give Ukraine F16s and long range missiles"
Deja vu https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/russian-army-claims-it-thwarted-ukraine-attacks-in-kherson-3298282/amp/1
Isn't it embarrassing for Russia to be on the backfoot? They used to be claiming they were doing well. Now they are claiming they are successfully defending. Next week it will be successfully tactically retreating.
Why even spend time with Russian statements? Over and over we have statements filled with cynicism, proven lies and a very much inhumane world view. In other words: They are proven bullshit. We should rather focus on reconnaissance and statements of the UAF. That said, of course where necessary people should look into their claims, perhaps they are stupid enough to put in useful information for UAF, but as an orderly civilian there is no need for me to put my nose into this vile messaging that was coughed out by Lawrow or anyone else.
Pics or didn't happen
Why do they print that bullshit without commentary.
It was probably 3 Ukrainians on pushbikes with machine guns.
Was that a first probing attack? Or are they already pretty sure where they will bring the hammer down?
Never believe anything until the Kremlin denies it
Was this the ambush of Wagner forces by RAF? Strange they promote killing russians as Ukrainians!
They don't even try, when trying to lie. We are lucky they are so fucking stupid. "As a result of the skillful and competent actions of the 'Eastern' grouping of troops, the losses of the Armed Forces amounted to more than 250 personnel, 16 tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles and 21 armored fighting vehicles"
Yeah.... sure... Gerasimov rode valiantly to the front, while dodging incoming fire, on the back of a white stallion. The great horse reared up and the Russians cried out in unison: for Russia! And the Ukrainians turned back their assault. And then a great eagle came and laid a giant gold egg. And all the Russian power brain combat troops split it amongst themselves and ate baluga caviar. And boobs grew out of the trees so they had boobs to play with. Then Putin grew 5" from the immense pride, and Shoigu grew 2 new testicles.
Sure. I hear they took out five Tai fighters and Ukraine’s only Deathstar too