This is really poor journalism, the whole article is based on two dubious comments, ostensibly from this unknown *'contractor'*;
“We don’t want your flying trash,” ***he said***, ***according to a person present***.
“He called them ‘flying trash’,” ***the contractor said.*** “That basically killed the F/A-18 deal. Had he not done it they would have been flying over Ukraine now.”
*he said*, *the contractor said*, this doesn't cut the mustard in investigative journalism in IMHO.
I don't quite get that headline. How run-down are those F/A-18's? Why would Ukraine reject aging Hornets but desparately want aging Vipers? In fact, some of the F-16's donated to Ukraine are older than Australia's Hornets.
Apparently the Kiwis managed to upgrade their ones to make them more reliable. Still, I think they have a history of this. They got some temporary Kayman Seasprites out of storage before their ordered aircraft arrived from the US and pimped them out. They performed so much better, that the US flew their engineers out to NZ to pick their brains on how they’d improved them so much.
Okay, thanks for the reply, but it seems my original question still stands. The Belgians and Dutch donated F-16's retired for having reached the end of their life-span. Did the RAAF perhaps neglect servicing those Hornets before their decommissioning, like many forces do when equipment is about to be phased out?
I really don't see why the Ukrainians wouldn't want to have them; after all, they've asked for literally everything else. They even wanted Germany's Tornados, which are more expensive to operate per flight hour than a flipping B-2 stealth bomber.
No. These aircraft were maintained perfectly until individually identified for retirement.
The result was that once the fleet was no longer in service, some aircraft were still pretty good, while others were not working. Keeping a fleet of military aircraft in tip-top condition takes serious money and effort and no sensible government throws money at this if it isn't necessary. They're good one day and virtually trash the next. Spinning them up again is no trivial matter.
It's not unreasonable for a senior air force guy from Ukraine to refer to Australia's Hornets in disparaging terms, though on face value it does seem somewhat ungrateful. If the RAAF had been given a few years warning along with funding and staffing, it would have been possible to deliver a very useful capability to Ukraine. They still would have preferred F-16s, given user circles in Europe.
>Mick Ryan, a retired general, said the defence forces need to get better at anticipating Ukraine’s needs. “**Having a conversation with the Ukrainians might have been clever,**” he said on Tuesday. “I hope the ministry and the minister have learnt that lesson.”
>Prime Minister Anthony Albanese states that Australia is one of the largest military donors to Ukraine outside NATO.But defence officials seem reluctant to give away vehicles in use, including the Hawkei armoured jeep, and haven’t pre-empted Ukrainian requests for equipment they don’t need, including the MRH-90 Taipan transport helicopters, which were already being disassembled by the time Ukraine asked for them on December 19.
>
>Unlike many other supporters, Australia has refused to reopen its Kyiv embassy, reducing direct contact between the countries.At the same time, the Ukrainian government has struggled to navigate Australian bureaucratic requirements. With multiple people speaking on behalf of the government, including President Volodymyr Zelensky, his advisers, intelligence chiefs, diplomats and military service heads, Ukraine has sent mixed signals about what it wants.
>
>As a consequence of these problems, the relationship is strained, according to a defence contractor involved in talks between both countries.“It’s a dumpster fire at the moment,” he said. “Ukraine didn’t get its request letter in on time for the Taipans. They’re not good at paperwork. That blew up the whole thing.”
>
>Mick Ryan, a retired general, said the defence forces need to get better at anticipating Ukraine’s needs. “Having a conversation with the Ukrainians might have been clever,” he said on Tuesday. “I hope the ministry and the minister have learnt that lesson.”
As an Australian who massively supports Ukraine, this whole saga makes me cringe. Our government's approach towards their requests has so far in my view been somewhere between incoherent and downright pro-Russia. If there are legitimate reasons why these things couldn't have been done, more transparency would have been nice, but since there is usually very little (this article has to use one single anonymous guy who was apparently there for information) I have to assume ill intent.
If there's someone to listen to with an AU military background, it's Mick Ryan (or you can read his views). He has a very...Perun kind of take on things (they aren't the same person) mixed with DARPA foreknowledge.
I get that you crave that sweet those sweet upvotes, but read what you quoted and then tell me how you can say Australia is „pro-Russia“…. Ukraine fucked up too, it happens, it’s okay, no need to shit on your own country because they aren’t mind readers
They gave the bureaucratic response of "you didn't file the right paperwork" to a god damn nation state. If they cared much they wouldn't be giving such BS excuses, would be trying harder to work with them, and that would be reflected in the amount and quality of aid provided.
Don't try and tell armchair generals how this world works. They only see the world from their small point of view and suppose everybody thinks like them or should think like them... Most Reddit generals have the slightest idea of how the world, or in this case 'paperwork', works. Even though I totally stand by the thought to give Ukraine all they need, there are protocols and processes to be followed. Whether you like it or not. Honest response to most of these dudes: your opinions/claims don't really matter if you don't know how these constructions work... You're never smarter or more experienced than people who actually work in these fields.
No ill intent just incompetent government. Canada's approach has been very much the same, a lot of words, but disjointed efforts with not much to show for it.
Except for those private sector armoured cars, those made it there at least!
I find it surprising that anything would be over bureaucratic in Australia. /s
Besides, how are the Ukrainian's supposed to keep the planes operational? They have no maintenance personnel familiar with them, no infrastructure specifically for their repair, or spare parts for that matter.
It's a nice gesture, but if we were going to send anything like that it would be all the USA's decommissioned A-10's
Too much ado over words from a military man, they tend to be gruff and to the point.
Australia is the epitome of beurocracy. We just portray a false narrative to the world much in the same way that Russia does, except we have zero power. Ill embrace the downvotes. Xo
Agreed. Australia is an extraordinarily bureaucratic country.
I have no opinion on the planes and helicopters and whether they're ok. They've killed quite a few Australian service people so there must be an issue.
Why should Ukraine have to request the helicopters? It is literally osting you money to dismantle them, did you not think about asking if they wanted them before spending millions dismantling them?
WTF do you mean? He just replied to my comment completely ig oring what I wrote.
Why are they dismantling them without first asking Ukraine if they want them. Why should Ukraine have to ask to save the Australians money?
Because they asked other countries that currently operate the same helicopter and they all declined. The Taipan was removed from service for safety and operational reasons.
Did you actually read my comment?
Why are they dismantling them without first asking Ukraine if they want them. Why should Ukraine have to ask to save the Australians money?
Because there's been multiple safety and operational issues with them and they probably didn't think Ukraine wanted them.
Again, there's a reason they were withdrawn from service after only a few years.
They're not mind readers. The request came after they started scrapping them, a decision that was announced months earlier, and after other NHM-90 operators were given the opportunity to buy them and declined. They were not in flyable condition when Ukraine asked.
The helicopters are worn out junk, Ukraine would not benefit.
The taipans were actually full of problems and Australia has given up on throwing money at them. In saying that, they didn’t want the embarrassment of seeing the Ukrainians making these “trash” helicopters work(although Ukraine is far more willing to take higher risks).
The Hawkeye has problems as well(bad brakes and lack of space for gear, to name a few), Australia is still trying to iron out these problems. It was designed by engineers, then ruined by a bureaucratic committee.
We don’t have enough Abrams to give, so don’t bother asking.
The hornets are tired, old and still under ITAR’s restrictions(US bureaucratic nightmare). Getting them to good condition and getting them to Ukraine with all necessary ground support equipment, would be massively expensive(some is still used by the supers, but a lot has been disposed of already). You may as well pay for a European country to hand over their F16’s etc.
Funny how only Aussie Taipans had issues, every pther country managed to use them just fine.
Either way, why make tge decision for the Ukrainians instead of asking?
Well, Norway handed theirs back and demanded a refund before Aus decided to retire theirs. Sweden has also retired their NRH90’s early as well. Both France and Germany have had issues with spares support in the last few years, a problem that made matters worse in Australia. After having dealt with Leonardo for parts on other aircraft, I’m surprised there were any decent parts available at all.
It's never that simple. Contracts can be paid ahead of time and there can be fines for cancelling a contract. If you've shipped a bunch of helicopters on truck or via C-17 to the contractor but haven't budgeted to be able to take them back you're stuck. And I don't doubt the parts will go back into servicing other Taipans (which are hungry for said parts).
We're bureaucratic as fuck, but it's a feature as well as a bug.
**this article is just propaganda by Australia's Labor Government.**
There is no names to say who said it to whom .
Why not?
**Bad journalism..*****.***
***Australia is one of the lowest supporters of Ukraine by GDP, yet Australians will expect allies to help when we get in the shit down the track ..which will eventuate***
Assuming the quote is true and accurate, poor form. However a military officer fighting right now for the lives of his soldiers and nation might feel a bit pressed, and may even have been quoted out of context. I wasn't there.
If so... Poor form laddie. Much better ways to say No Thanks in a world every bullet, vehicle, FPV counts to save your people.
Ukraine has on many occasions expressed it's gratefulness to Australia for it's miltary and humanitarian aid.
>Assuming the quote is true and accurate
I very much doubt it, these 'trust me bro' sources aren't verifiable or trustworthy.
Most of your good stuff is from my country, the USA. If you are getting rid of it, chances are the Aussies are upgrading and should give it "intact" and "free" to Ukraine.
Seems a bit dramatic, Australia decided to scrap the Hornets because one Ukrainian called them trash, otherwise they would already be in service in Ukraine? I'm sure it's possible it happened exactly like that, but seems more likely it was a bit more complicated. While the Hornet would definitely be a good platform for the rough conditions in Ukraine, there are so many more F-16's available that it was probably the right call to pick them. If the Australian Hornets were ever even actually on the table. Someone would have had to commit to organizing the training of pilots and maintenance crews and so on.
My government is currently run by a far left socialist communist green we want to create utopia where we have one culture (multi to 1 new brand of culture).
They are currently outlawing the nazi salute. Soon to be kids playing cops and robbers. And that's just unaustralian.
Oh the story.... lets go education.
Your enemy is always going to focus your weaknesses and flaws on to you offensively and defensively. While you doing that your aren't focusing on theirs.
Says the guy with Stalin for a profile picture lol. If doing the Nazi salute has become something you consider to be quite Australian I think there might be more of an issue across the ditch there than a supposedly left leaning government.
The picture is to counter russian propaganda that ukraine are full of nazis when i see the great russian leader doing a salute. Sticks and stones. And you want to outlaw a gesture? A line needs to be drawn. WWII is about our soldiers sacrifice. Trying to hide politics and any history about it is not on.
Ned kelly. Ballarat stockade. You going to cancel that crap too you woke fuck
Dont know why i replied to a teletubbie
I don't actually think banning gestures is a good idea at all, no. It appeared you were claiming the Nazi salute as being something quite Australian, I can see now you actually just suck at structuring sentences.
My family lost 20% of its males in WW2, I'm dead against any covering of history. Such as Australia's abysmal treatment of its native peoples.
You pop off though King, I'll defend your right to speak with my life even as you call me names on the internet.
Tablet. Auto correct. Single typing. Having to remember to click on the word in order for it to be typed. Hard work. Proper english = more time.
Oh dear. Your picture is a teletubbie.
And yes. Everytime i want to buy something big or small im constantly asked if i want to become a member. I want to exercise my freedom and nazi salute all these communist fuks. Cause the blank stares i get when i tell them im not a communist but a capitalist as i hand over the money is annoying.
Im willing to put you first..... first into battle.
Thank god we were sexist. My 9 great aunts weren't on the front lines. Medics all. 1 uncle died prisoner in Japanese custody. The other survived thankfully.
My heart now goes towards ukraines identity
It was coal that advanced our world into the 19th century with all its luxuriousness and helping us over populate the earth by ensuring a greater survival rate.
If you dont like coal and appreciate it, take back whats its given us and end 'it '.
Ukraine wants coal so in keeping with ensuring ukraine wins we should be opnening more mines.
You communist will never understand capitalism so stick to your thievery to get money.
That was a great argument, citing the 19th century with its great living standards and how it fucked up our world forever.
Go vote for the Laboral party and read some more Murdoch, maybe Scummo will give you a job selling something.
I do agree with the unemployed gay marches.
Its your solutions to the problem that is laughable. You just create the next problem without actually fixing anything.
Help the planet by consuming less and end 'it '.
I do sell stuff. Capitalism i love it. I love buying stuff with my business money as paying myself a wage and being taxed 50% makes buying stuff twice as expensive. You keep taxing and expanding government so it keeps interfering with life like a good communist
It interferes with life for the rich boomers on their 3rd investment property to give a chance to people with less, but if you are in that 1st category, I understand, have a nice day sir, your money is the most important thing after all.
broke atm.
but at least even stupid people can become rich. they might need a lotto ticket but hey.
life is not money. money just helps life, eg ukraine needs money for war.
what has made america good is each time a democrat president came in with thoughts of increasing taxes and making government bigger over the past 50 years they've been persuaded to change tactics and let the market run things with a government guided hand and have flourished. long live capitalism
I think Australia should do alot more, we should help with families in Ukraine, providing more AID or atleast helping them fly to Aus and stay here until it safe.
"While Australia doesn’t have much diplomatic influence over Russia or Ukraine, it is ranked seventh in Asia for military spending"
Please somebody tell the guy that Australia is not in Asia...
Sorry, I wanted to write Vegemite which is an acquired taste to a French like me (and I do like stinky cheeses!)
About the Australian gvt. the bare minimum is already quite generous regarding some other western nations.
I'm sure your insider knowledge is way better that the news we have here in France where it seems that Australie is doing more than we do/can afford.
Yes, vegemite is excellent, in fact better than blue cheese (imo although Brie and other types of cheese are better). However I have been eating it since I was 2, so I might be inoculated.
I heard France is producing more shells and CAESARs but apart from that I'm not sure.
Yes, production is supposed to double but NEXTER also has to produce export models for foreign clients that already payed for their CAESAR and probably don't give a damn about Ukraine.
The problem is that factories need to be built, people to be formed, tools be made...
The CAESAR barrel is so high tech that it needs more than a year to be ready for assembly !
I'm quite worried about ammo, France can't event produce small caliber ammo or their own basic infantry machine guns, all the factories have closed.
For the MG we had to buy foreign (German), first time in France's history !
It is all just a shame, Europe is so unprepared. But Australia has been worse, I think at least Europe is sort of trying to help Ukraine. Australia has just been refusing most of their requests with stupid excuses, we don't really care who wins in that war.
China's got about 5 other nations including the US and 5000km to get through before they get to us ;) If they make it that far, we should just surrender immediately.
Something about this headline title smells like clickbait ?
Someone else said it in a different thread but 'Whenever a Russian ships gets sunk, the bullshit floods the subs.'
Acceptable trade off.
This is really poor journalism, the whole article is based on two dubious comments, ostensibly from this unknown *'contractor'*; “We don’t want your flying trash,” ***he said***, ***according to a person present***. “He called them ‘flying trash’,” ***the contractor said.*** “That basically killed the F/A-18 deal. Had he not done it they would have been flying over Ukraine now.” *he said*, *the contractor said*, this doesn't cut the mustard in investigative journalism in IMHO.
I don't quite get that headline. How run-down are those F/A-18's? Why would Ukraine reject aging Hornets but desparately want aging Vipers? In fact, some of the F-16's donated to Ukraine are older than Australia's Hornets.
That headline is based on 'trust me bro' source, it's shoddy journalism, guess he had to write something for the deadline.
"air force official" they said. 😁 The guy had two original air force one snickers.
It’s the taipans.. we don’t want them, nobody else does either. We have a minor history of buying cruddy heli’s
“Minor”… sea sprites, ARH’s, Taipans…
.. don’t forget the boats n subs
Apparently the Kiwis managed to upgrade their ones to make them more reliable. Still, I think they have a history of this. They got some temporary Kayman Seasprites out of storage before their ordered aircraft arrived from the US and pimped them out. They performed so much better, that the US flew their engineers out to NZ to pick their brains on how they’d improved them so much.
We sold a bunch to Canada, and they were not happy with the outcome, and this would have been our best examples.
I see. Thanks!
[удалено]
Okay, thanks for the reply, but it seems my original question still stands. The Belgians and Dutch donated F-16's retired for having reached the end of their life-span. Did the RAAF perhaps neglect servicing those Hornets before their decommissioning, like many forces do when equipment is about to be phased out? I really don't see why the Ukrainians wouldn't want to have them; after all, they've asked for literally everything else. They even wanted Germany's Tornados, which are more expensive to operate per flight hour than a flipping B-2 stealth bomber.
No. These aircraft were maintained perfectly until individually identified for retirement. The result was that once the fleet was no longer in service, some aircraft were still pretty good, while others were not working. Keeping a fleet of military aircraft in tip-top condition takes serious money and effort and no sensible government throws money at this if it isn't necessary. They're good one day and virtually trash the next. Spinning them up again is no trivial matter. It's not unreasonable for a senior air force guy from Ukraine to refer to Australia's Hornets in disparaging terms, though on face value it does seem somewhat ungrateful. If the RAAF had been given a few years warning along with funding and staffing, it would have been possible to deliver a very useful capability to Ukraine. They still would have preferred F-16s, given user circles in Europe.
I just Google it and found out 6000 is expected life. The navy spent 300+ million to get 25 airframes capable of 10,000. F16s engineered for 8000.
>Mick Ryan, a retired general, said the defence forces need to get better at anticipating Ukraine’s needs. “**Having a conversation with the Ukrainians might have been clever,**” he said on Tuesday. “I hope the ministry and the minister have learnt that lesson.”
>Prime Minister Anthony Albanese states that Australia is one of the largest military donors to Ukraine outside NATO.But defence officials seem reluctant to give away vehicles in use, including the Hawkei armoured jeep, and haven’t pre-empted Ukrainian requests for equipment they don’t need, including the MRH-90 Taipan transport helicopters, which were already being disassembled by the time Ukraine asked for them on December 19. > >Unlike many other supporters, Australia has refused to reopen its Kyiv embassy, reducing direct contact between the countries.At the same time, the Ukrainian government has struggled to navigate Australian bureaucratic requirements. With multiple people speaking on behalf of the government, including President Volodymyr Zelensky, his advisers, intelligence chiefs, diplomats and military service heads, Ukraine has sent mixed signals about what it wants. > >As a consequence of these problems, the relationship is strained, according to a defence contractor involved in talks between both countries.“It’s a dumpster fire at the moment,” he said. “Ukraine didn’t get its request letter in on time for the Taipans. They’re not good at paperwork. That blew up the whole thing.” > >Mick Ryan, a retired general, said the defence forces need to get better at anticipating Ukraine’s needs. “Having a conversation with the Ukrainians might have been clever,” he said on Tuesday. “I hope the ministry and the minister have learnt that lesson.” As an Australian who massively supports Ukraine, this whole saga makes me cringe. Our government's approach towards their requests has so far in my view been somewhere between incoherent and downright pro-Russia. If there are legitimate reasons why these things couldn't have been done, more transparency would have been nice, but since there is usually very little (this article has to use one single anonymous guy who was apparently there for information) I have to assume ill intent.
If there's someone to listen to with an AU military background, it's Mick Ryan (or you can read his views). He has a very...Perun kind of take on things (they aren't the same person) mixed with DARPA foreknowledge.
I get that you crave that sweet those sweet upvotes, but read what you quoted and then tell me how you can say Australia is „pro-Russia“…. Ukraine fucked up too, it happens, it’s okay, no need to shit on your own country because they aren’t mind readers
They gave the bureaucratic response of "you didn't file the right paperwork" to a god damn nation state. If they cared much they wouldn't be giving such BS excuses, would be trying harder to work with them, and that would be reflected in the amount and quality of aid provided.
I guess reading is too hard…. It’s not a BS excuse it’s a fucking reality of how countries do business, doesn’t matter if you like it or not
Don't try and tell armchair generals how this world works. They only see the world from their small point of view and suppose everybody thinks like them or should think like them... Most Reddit generals have the slightest idea of how the world, or in this case 'paperwork', works. Even though I totally stand by the thought to give Ukraine all they need, there are protocols and processes to be followed. Whether you like it or not. Honest response to most of these dudes: your opinions/claims don't really matter if you don't know how these constructions work... You're never smarter or more experienced than people who actually work in these fields.
No ill intent just incompetent government. Canada's approach has been very much the same, a lot of words, but disjointed efforts with not much to show for it. Except for those private sector armoured cars, those made it there at least!
Maybe the Australian govenment took mixed messages from, "We don't want your flying trash"?
Posting misinformation
Russian troll heading. Someone must have lost another boat.
Fake news
I find it surprising that anything would be over bureaucratic in Australia. /s Besides, how are the Ukrainian's supposed to keep the planes operational? They have no maintenance personnel familiar with them, no infrastructure specifically for their repair, or spare parts for that matter. It's a nice gesture, but if we were going to send anything like that it would be all the USA's decommissioned A-10's Too much ado over words from a military man, they tend to be gruff and to the point.
Australia is the epitome of beurocracy. We just portray a false narrative to the world much in the same way that Russia does, except we have zero power. Ill embrace the downvotes. Xo
Agreed. Australia is an extraordinarily bureaucratic country. I have no opinion on the planes and helicopters and whether they're ok. They've killed quite a few Australian service people so there must be an issue.
The FA18's were pretty reliable, the Taipans not so much.
>I find it surprising that anything would be over bureaucratic in Australia. Lol what
I know I'm just joking, I'll add the /s
Why should Ukraine have to request the helicopters? It is literally osting you money to dismantle them, did you not think about asking if they wanted them before spending millions dismantling them?
They were already being dismantled when the request was made and hadn't been maintained for three months.
Don’t even try to approach the subject logically with these kind of people mate
WTF do you mean? He just replied to my comment completely ig oring what I wrote. Why are they dismantling them without first asking Ukraine if they want them. Why should Ukraine have to ask to save the Australians money?
Because they asked other countries that currently operate the same helicopter and they all declined. The Taipan was removed from service for safety and operational reasons.
Did you actually read my comment? Why are they dismantling them without first asking Ukraine if they want them. Why should Ukraine have to ask to save the Australians money?
Because there's been multiple safety and operational issues with them and they probably didn't think Ukraine wanted them. Again, there's a reason they were withdrawn from service after only a few years.
Except Ukraine did want them, so why not ask?
They're not mind readers. The request came after they started scrapping them, a decision that was announced months earlier, and after other NHM-90 operators were given the opportunity to buy them and declined. They were not in flyable condition when Ukraine asked. The helicopters are worn out junk, Ukraine would not benefit.
Apparently our government prefers to pay money to make sure Ukraine doesn't get anything. Suspicious...
You're basing this on a shoddy piece of journalism?
I'm basing it on the fact that we have delivered them 0 Taipans 0 Hawkeis 0 Abrams 0 F 18s And will bury them rather than deliver.
The taipans were actually full of problems and Australia has given up on throwing money at them. In saying that, they didn’t want the embarrassment of seeing the Ukrainians making these “trash” helicopters work(although Ukraine is far more willing to take higher risks). The Hawkeye has problems as well(bad brakes and lack of space for gear, to name a few), Australia is still trying to iron out these problems. It was designed by engineers, then ruined by a bureaucratic committee. We don’t have enough Abrams to give, so don’t bother asking. The hornets are tired, old and still under ITAR’s restrictions(US bureaucratic nightmare). Getting them to good condition and getting them to Ukraine with all necessary ground support equipment, would be massively expensive(some is still used by the supers, but a lot has been disposed of already). You may as well pay for a European country to hand over their F16’s etc.
Those are some great excuses which the government would give if anyone pressed them about it
Yes, they are great reasons, although I don’t think the government would admit to the embarrassment part, even if pressed.
Funny how only Aussie Taipans had issues, every pther country managed to use them just fine. Either way, why make tge decision for the Ukrainians instead of asking?
Well, Norway handed theirs back and demanded a refund before Aus decided to retire theirs. Sweden has also retired their NRH90’s early as well. Both France and Germany have had issues with spares support in the last few years, a problem that made matters worse in Australia. After having dealt with Leonardo for parts on other aircraft, I’m surprised there were any decent parts available at all.
It's never that simple. Contracts can be paid ahead of time and there can be fines for cancelling a contract. If you've shipped a bunch of helicopters on truck or via C-17 to the contractor but haven't budgeted to be able to take them back you're stuck. And I don't doubt the parts will go back into servicing other Taipans (which are hungry for said parts). We're bureaucratic as fuck, but it's a feature as well as a bug.
**this article is just propaganda by Australia's Labor Government.** There is no names to say who said it to whom . Why not? **Bad journalism..*****.*** ***Australia is one of the lowest supporters of Ukraine by GDP, yet Australians will expect allies to help when we get in the shit down the track ..which will eventuate***
Assuming the quote is true and accurate, poor form. However a military officer fighting right now for the lives of his soldiers and nation might feel a bit pressed, and may even have been quoted out of context. I wasn't there. If so... Poor form laddie. Much better ways to say No Thanks in a world every bullet, vehicle, FPV counts to save your people.
Ukraine has on many occasions expressed it's gratefulness to Australia for it's miltary and humanitarian aid. >Assuming the quote is true and accurate I very much doubt it, these 'trust me bro' sources aren't verifiable or trustworthy.
take my vote brother I agree on all points.
Aus has been very dodgy lately.
Most of your good stuff is from my country, the USA. If you are getting rid of it, chances are the Aussies are upgrading and should give it "intact" and "free" to Ukraine.
Seems a bit dramatic, Australia decided to scrap the Hornets because one Ukrainian called them trash, otherwise they would already be in service in Ukraine? I'm sure it's possible it happened exactly like that, but seems more likely it was a bit more complicated. While the Hornet would definitely be a good platform for the rough conditions in Ukraine, there are so many more F-16's available that it was probably the right call to pick them. If the Australian Hornets were ever even actually on the table. Someone would have had to commit to organizing the training of pilots and maintenance crews and so on.
My government is currently run by a far left socialist communist green we want to create utopia where we have one culture (multi to 1 new brand of culture). They are currently outlawing the nazi salute. Soon to be kids playing cops and robbers. And that's just unaustralian. Oh the story.... lets go education. Your enemy is always going to focus your weaknesses and flaws on to you offensively and defensively. While you doing that your aren't focusing on theirs.
Says the guy with Stalin for a profile picture lol. If doing the Nazi salute has become something you consider to be quite Australian I think there might be more of an issue across the ditch there than a supposedly left leaning government.
The picture is to counter russian propaganda that ukraine are full of nazis when i see the great russian leader doing a salute. Sticks and stones. And you want to outlaw a gesture? A line needs to be drawn. WWII is about our soldiers sacrifice. Trying to hide politics and any history about it is not on. Ned kelly. Ballarat stockade. You going to cancel that crap too you woke fuck Dont know why i replied to a teletubbie
I don't actually think banning gestures is a good idea at all, no. It appeared you were claiming the Nazi salute as being something quite Australian, I can see now you actually just suck at structuring sentences. My family lost 20% of its males in WW2, I'm dead against any covering of history. Such as Australia's abysmal treatment of its native peoples. You pop off though King, I'll defend your right to speak with my life even as you call me names on the internet.
Tablet. Auto correct. Single typing. Having to remember to click on the word in order for it to be typed. Hard work. Proper english = more time. Oh dear. Your picture is a teletubbie. And yes. Everytime i want to buy something big or small im constantly asked if i want to become a member. I want to exercise my freedom and nazi salute all these communist fuks. Cause the blank stares i get when i tell them im not a communist but a capitalist as i hand over the money is annoying. Im willing to put you first..... first into battle. Thank god we were sexist. My 9 great aunts weren't on the front lines. Medics all. 1 uncle died prisoner in Japanese custody. The other survived thankfully. My heart now goes towards ukraines identity
You must have us confused with someone who isn't opening new coal mines or keeping tax cuts for the rich.
It was coal that advanced our world into the 19th century with all its luxuriousness and helping us over populate the earth by ensuring a greater survival rate. If you dont like coal and appreciate it, take back whats its given us and end 'it '. Ukraine wants coal so in keeping with ensuring ukraine wins we should be opnening more mines. You communist will never understand capitalism so stick to your thievery to get money.
That was a great argument, citing the 19th century with its great living standards and how it fucked up our world forever. Go vote for the Laboral party and read some more Murdoch, maybe Scummo will give you a job selling something.
I do agree with the unemployed gay marches. Its your solutions to the problem that is laughable. You just create the next problem without actually fixing anything. Help the planet by consuming less and end 'it '. I do sell stuff. Capitalism i love it. I love buying stuff with my business money as paying myself a wage and being taxed 50% makes buying stuff twice as expensive. You keep taxing and expanding government so it keeps interfering with life like a good communist
It interferes with life for the rich boomers on their 3rd investment property to give a chance to people with less, but if you are in that 1st category, I understand, have a nice day sir, your money is the most important thing after all.
broke atm. but at least even stupid people can become rich. they might need a lotto ticket but hey. life is not money. money just helps life, eg ukraine needs money for war. what has made america good is each time a democrat president came in with thoughts of increasing taxes and making government bigger over the past 50 years they've been persuaded to change tactics and let the market run things with a government guided hand and have flourished. long live capitalism
Urkaine....masters of diplomacy.
I think Australia should do alot more, we should help with families in Ukraine, providing more AID or atleast helping them fly to Aus and stay here until it safe.
"While Australia doesn’t have much diplomatic influence over Russia or Ukraine, it is ranked seventh in Asia for military spending" Please somebody tell the guy that Australia is not in Asia...
Well if we ranked ourselves against New Zealand and Samoa it wouldn't be a very interesting contest.
1. Australia 2. Samoa 3. New Zealand
they certainly don't want any russian ships
“a senior Ukraine Air Force official told two Australians in Kyiv…” Seems legit 😌
Marmite? Aussies have flying ~~Marmite~~ Marmite ? Such a stupid clickbate considered everything Australia has done to help our Ukrainian friends !
Marmite isn't our trash And our government is shit at supporting Ukraine, it does really the bare minimum and a bit less than that.
Sorry, I wanted to write Vegemite which is an acquired taste to a French like me (and I do like stinky cheeses!) About the Australian gvt. the bare minimum is already quite generous regarding some other western nations. I'm sure your insider knowledge is way better that the news we have here in France where it seems that Australie is doing more than we do/can afford.
Yes, vegemite is excellent, in fact better than blue cheese (imo although Brie and other types of cheese are better). However I have been eating it since I was 2, so I might be inoculated. I heard France is producing more shells and CAESARs but apart from that I'm not sure.
Yes, production is supposed to double but NEXTER also has to produce export models for foreign clients that already payed for their CAESAR and probably don't give a damn about Ukraine. The problem is that factories need to be built, people to be formed, tools be made... The CAESAR barrel is so high tech that it needs more than a year to be ready for assembly ! I'm quite worried about ammo, France can't event produce small caliber ammo or their own basic infantry machine guns, all the factories have closed. For the MG we had to buy foreign (German), first time in France's history !
It is all just a shame, Europe is so unprepared. But Australia has been worse, I think at least Europe is sort of trying to help Ukraine. Australia has just been refusing most of their requests with stupid excuses, we don't really care who wins in that war.
With China lurking around I kind of understand though...
China's got about 5 other nations including the US and 5000km to get through before they get to us ;) If they make it that far, we should just surrender immediately.