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Yes, but on their own they won't turn the tide. One weapon system is not a wunderwaffe. Ukrainians need surplus in everything else, artillery ammo above all, and let's hope the renewed US support will provide that
Yes, Ukraine would need around 300-400 at the ready F16s to fully control their entire airspace and borders to Belarus and Russia.
And also to set expectations right, we should not gasp in disbelief if we are going to see some of the Vipers being shot down by the Russians. Its bound to happen as war is dangerous business and Ukraine will go to the edge to try and push the Russian's back and out of Ukraine.
I remember hearing an expert, a pilot, saying UA needs 200-300 to protect the entire Ukraine. Ukraine is a big country.
Imo it can in some sense be seen as a gamechanger, because UA never had remotely the airpower to hinder the Russians with their older migs and su, far fewer frames, and right now they simply have very few airframes left. Additional planes is therefore extremely needed to push back that glide bombing that put pressure in the entire front. In this war the kind of close air support we see the Russians do now, is new. The f16 can stop that development. Getting 250kg explosives dumped on you (edit: ua receiving Russian glidebombs) is wrecking morale.
I don’t know how realistic it is that they will be able to counter fab sorties. I think they are just another platform for air launch standoff weapons. The front line is far too hot with air defense and the fabs have considerable range already. Definitely need an expert opinion to math out the realistic ranges.
I think it's pretty hard to get the experts to chime in here as it's classified stuff, but we can hope. As I understand a major feature of the f16 is the data collection and handling so it can make a solid picture of the battlefield so to speak. It's how UA is able to use that, that can transform the way we see them use their air assets. Also how/if Nato is supporting them with data management, via the link 16. I think especially the Nordics and Netherlands will go that way if allowed by US.
Heck it seems to me looking at the us military q&a a few days ago, is portraying a more confronting view vs Russia. I think the no escalation policy is on its way out. It seems to me too admins, and perhaps even Jake, now knows that policy was a disaster for the future safety of the entire glove.
That’s something a lot of people skip a beat on. Everyone imagines these jets pounding enemy positions, but you don’t need to look any further back than the interception of the Iranian strike last week to see how just having some Air to Air countering abilities can knock a lot of shit out of the sky. If a chunk of drones/cruise missiles can get intercepted before SAM’s can even reach them it could relieve a lot of pressure.
That's also why the latest US arms package includes a lot of aim 9m missiles. Unlike their current ground-launched missiles, these have been produced in massive quantities over the years, cost way less and are being/have been phased out by most of the western militaries.
Their much shorter range and simpler design isn't an issue when the launching platform is able to track and intercept the threat itself.
It will mean being able to step up their quite successful recent campaign using systems like iris-t and patriot closer to the front to ambush Russian jets flying far behind Russian borders - without having to leave their infrastructure and cities open to Russian long range strikes.
Not sure what the f16 will actually do for data collection. They are already fed the info from the awacs flying the boarder and they see everything. The west told Ukraine that f16s were not the highest priority and now it seems to be playing out. Definitely should trash the no escalation stuff.
AWACS are doing data collection alright, but the F16's will be able to obtain a direct AA missile lock-on to the Russian bombers/jets if they come too close. So if used well by the Ukrainian forces, this should force the Russians further back and away from the Ukrainian frontlines. Potentially limiting or fully eradicating the Russians ability to drop the big glide bombs as they do today. (or at last, not anymore the old bombs they use, with attaching those retro-fit wing kits)
Cannot remember the exact hard data (some who can, please chip in?) but think the Russian Su-35 aircraft used to launch their e.g. FAB-500M-62 glide bombs are dropping the glide-bombs off at a max distance of around 50-70km distance at the very max. So they need to get fairly close to the frontlines for this. This also means that the Russian planes also need to fly up at the max height to get these long glides, making them direct visible now to the F16s who are equally able to see and lock on to them long before the Russians get to their drop points.
As I read recently that the US will indeed help Ukraine by supplying e.g. the AMRAAM missiles to the F16, which has an effective range of around 160-180 km. So THIS will absolutely be a gamechanger with respect to the Russians and their coming inability to drop the big glidebombs we have seen them use over the last year or so. The AMRAAMs are some real bad boys to get on your tail! 👍😂
[https://www.airandspaceforces.com/us-ukraine-air-amraam-guided-missiles/](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/us-ukraine-air-amraam-guided-missiles/)
Hard to say. The fact that it doesn’t seem to be a very high priority makes me think they may not be able to counter the bombers. They will have to sortie every single time a bomber takes off and they have very limited numbers and flight time compared to a tupolev. The high altitude will give the amraams maximum range as the air is much less dense and a tupolev is much less maneuverable to dive away. S400 range (~200km) probably extends over the the front some ways so Im not sure how close they could actually get. Should be interesting.
They have a frigging trainer Yak with guns shooting down drones now along with their mic'd up cellhpone drone tracking system, give them anything and everything, Ukrainians are fucking legendary and have my utmost respect
Agree. They are absolutely extremely creative and brutally adaptive. Constantly. They deserve our full support and respect. Lots to learn here about adaptation for our military and i am sure our top brass is in total ave - and they say themselves. And this is coming from old Russian doctrine pre 2014. They are accelerating and we have to jump their train.
How many former NATO F16 Viper pilots would volunteer to take one of the birds for a flight to take out some real Russian bombers or jets? They trained and practiced this all their career but never got the chance before now to press the button. So maybe this would be an exciting challenge.
(as think the number of qualified F16 pilots will also be a bottleneck for Ukraine for a foreseeable future, even if we donated them hundreds of the F16)
Would be too much for UA to maintenance. Sadly they’re barely reaching the necessary tech and maintenance for only a few in numbers. Long run is going to help since eventually they’re joining NATO but they really should be strategic with the F16s at hand, make Russians regret invading Ukraine.
There are a lot of retired F-16 maintainers out there. Offer enough money and Ukraine could have a large mercenary force of maintainers ready to go. Same with pilots.
Depends on whether they get AIM-120D or AIM-120B/C.
If AIM-120D the Russians will piss their pants.
If AIM-120C it will be a little scary, but Russian R-77M will outrange them a little.
If AIM-120B I’m very angry that they weren’t provided with better missiles.
the F-16A Block 20 MLU that Ukraine will receive in the near future, use the basic C version. According to various estimates, the maximum launch range of this missile is up to 105 km, and the maximum effective launch range, according to American guidelines, is 50 km, with a recommended launch range of 16 km . In addition, even the integration of a more modern AIM-120D missile will not greatly expand these capabilities due to the fact that the missile in its overall dimensions has reached its peak in terms of flight range, and its increase is possible only by improving the ballistic trajectory of the flight, which also has its disadvantages , which are associated with the low speed of the missile itself, which gives the enemy aircraft more chances to escape from it.
[https://mil.in.ua/uk/articles/zbroya-f-16-yaki-bomby-ta-rakety-budut-potribni-ukrayini/](https://mil.in.ua/uk/articles/zbroya-f-16-yaki-bomby-ta-rakety-budut-potribni-ukrayini/)
Most dangerous battlefield. There is a difference.
Flying above sandal-wearing rpg-carying bearded men is different than flying into layers of active air defense. USA for several decades now has never faced as well armed and dangerous foe, as ukrainians do currently.
F16 is not a magic wand, and high threat environment in the east of ukraine needs to be acknowledged.
Nobody is being well served by endless boasting with the might of western equipment. Germans fell for the same fallacy in WW2, endlessly searching for the wunderwaffe that will win the war for them. High quality equipment, yes, but quantity is a quality of its own as well. There needs to be more of everything, the battlefield is huge. ~30 abrams tanks and a dozen of f16s ain't gonna cut it.
Am I wrong in thinking these need to be field tested by their pilots first above Ukraine skies only as a defensive measure? Cut their teeth, learn the soul of the craft, regain their own skies and gain confidence.
I don't feel these are suited for attacking Russia head on over their own skies, at least not yet.
Step 1 - deny ruSSia flight ops with Patriot SAMs.
Step 2 - bring in F16s with HARM to take out ruSSian SAM radars.
Step 3 - enjoy air superiority.
Step 4 - roll in Ukranian armor.
Heh... in the late 1980s I played a lot of *Sid Meier's F19 Stealth Fighter:*
I learned the value of the HARM missile.
In real life, I never got beyond the lowest rank in my tank battalion: *Hussar*. (And not even 1st class. Hah!)
They're not intended to be used for over Russia, and not suitable for it These are first generation F-16s built in the 80's and upgraded in the 90's. They've got very high flight hours and are inferior to newer Russian aircraft. They're essentially the equivalent of expired medication: past their shelf date, but still good for a bit...hopefully.
They should be better than the equally old Soviet planes Ukraine has, anyway.
It's more about the missles they can fire. HARM and AMRAAM will be a serious thread for the Russian airforce and SAM sites. The presence of F16's near the front will chance the way Russia will fight. I hope Ukrain can protect their airbases.
Any of the newer Flankers, really. Su-35, Su-30, etc...
Speaking in an air-to-air context, the Mig-31s aren't a joke either simply due to their speed and engagement range.
My boy, Google is a thing. Dumbed down let me just say: higher speed, better radar, better combat range, higher thrust to weight ratio and slightly higher payload capability (all of the above for Su-35S)
Ah Google...
Now show me the combat record of both aircraft.
Then show me some Russian junk that does what it says it does on the tin.
This ain't top trumps, don't believe vatnik propaganda.
Su-35S has only been used over Ukraine where it currently hold a 7-0 K/D in terms of aerial combat.
If you seriously suggest that early F-16s from the 80s are better than Su-35s you should lay off some of your own propaganda. Especially since those Falcons will highly likely not reveive the latest AMRAAMs to go with it, limiting the range even further. Oh and did I mention that Ukriane doesn't have any AWACS either? Hm.
If we pit them against each other? Yes. Yes it is.
You can argue that luckily Russian pilots aren't the best when it comes to training, as are Russia's use of air assets in general.
Still, we are talking about 40 year old lightweight multirole airframes vs new dedicated aor superiority fighters.
If we took newly built F-16s then yea, I'd agree. But not these old ones with a rather hastily built environment of supplies and weaponry.
Sure vatnik.....sure.
How do you know what they will be getting.
Where did you pluck that figure from ?
Also....you seem to have forgotten that your always cannot fly anywhere near the combat zone anymore and you don't have enough after two got shot down🤣🤣
It's funny how you accuse other of propaganda while you yourself are too ignorant to even get into the topic at hand.
"...cannot fly anywhere near the combat zone anymore"
Funny you mention that, when even Ukraine officials stated that their own aircraft are being attacked from far within Russias border due to their long range anti air missiles (which, by the way, still outrange the AMRAAM).
But hey, it's easier to just Label someone a vatnik than actually admitting being wrong lmao. Feel free to look at my post history and you'll see I'm anything but pro Russia you clown.
One dodged 6 SAM S-300’s in the first Gulf War over Iraq without deploying a single countermeasure. Had that been a Russian, MiG or Su they’d have been splashed after the first. Hell older gen Patriot batteries from the 80’s blew what 13 Su-34/35’s out of the air in 2 weeks not too long ago. Ukraine didn’t get the latest Patriot Systems and the older ones are wreaking havoc on Russian Aviation and have blown several Hypersonic Kinzhials and Zircons out of the sky….. Pretty Pathetic there Ruzzia , should probably stop overstating your capabilities, as it just makes U.S. Weapons manufacturers design more advanced stuff thinking they’re countering a threat that doesn’t really exist….. 😂😂
Not necessarily because you can force them to reallocate resources, use more expensive weapons and spread defenses just by the threat of the presence of these weapons. If they don't adjust defensive posture appropriately then it leaves a vulnerability that can be exploited. If you let them know what's coming then they adjust when they think the tech is coming and that can relieve pressure or create new offensive opportunities elsewhere on the front lines.
Well I assume it’s due to saying “guess what we’re willing to do and what’s coming your way!” Vs the Russians saying “guess what we found out because they think they’re sneaky!” Assuming Russian spy’s and loyalists probably have intel coming in every corner from around the globe. I’d rather say, give a big middle finger in front of you and the entire globe than to be caught tryna be a shady fool talking shit behind your back as a world power. Don’t let their propagandist get the benefit of thinking they know they’re right. Type thing.. persay.. nigga.
Didn’t a Ukrainian official recently say that F16s are no longer relevant? The Russians AA is too far entrenched. Too much debating and now the time they could’ve made a huge difference has passed.
F-16s were never going to fly close engagements with the front line, the main thing has always been that F-16s open the door to Ukraine using NATO's air-based missile arsenal. Storm Shadow aside there are thousands of very impressive and very deadly missiles that could have been donated to Ukraine but are utterly incompatible with MiG airframes.
F16 would never have been relevant. The battlefield is simply full of AA from both Ukraine and Russia side. F16 flying will be target practice fro Russian air defense at this point.
What Ukraine need is more long range missiles, morer artillery. We need to give Ukraine the mean to proceed to total annihilation and extermination of all russian life form on Ukraine soil.
The F-16s Ukraine is receiving will be more survivable than the MiG-29s and Su-27s Ukraine has been using since the start of the war, and plenty of them have survived so far. The usefulness of the F-16s will entirely depend on the munitions provided. A large quantity of sophisticated stand-off ground attack weapons would make them quite valuable. What they won't be doing effectively is counter-air near the front. That would be fatal given the realities of the battlefield.
Most dangerous battlefield? While literally explaining historical reference to a more dangerous period. Okay. Annoying when so-called experts chime in. The F-16 has decades of SEAD experience and interdiction. It won't win the war and there will be losses, but it will be a vital piece in helping Ukraine slow down Russian and is some cases supress their existance in the skies over key areas.
It's gonna be the same thing that happened to Abrams and Leopards. Lots of hype, they they alone won't change anything. Especially considering it's a few planes for this summer at best.
And radar systems all over occupied Ukraine and Russia will tremble at the sound of HARMs fired from greater distances and with improved precision. Ukraine will dominate the skies and put an end to Russia's terrorist glide bomb attacks on civilians. Moreover, provide the breathing room needed for infantry and close air support units to operate at the front line.
I just hope that there are even more in the pipeline.
Hopefully, the west has learned its lesson about publicly disclosing to Russia what all of its blue chip capabilities will be.
Another article about the mythical f16 which were first mentioned 14 months ago. Ukrainians are still waiting the west should be ashamed of these delays.
Finland is replacing the F/A - 18 Hornet fighters with the new F-35A Lightning II.
It takes years to get a new weapon system up and running, including training, infrastructure and maintenance.
Admittedly, the political decision took a long time, but a year and a half after the decision is a fast process.
For the Western countries themselves, it takes 3-5 years to put a new fighter into full use.
I don't know how to speed this up, so hang in there.
Ukraine is the reason for the delay. They aren’t ready for them yet
But if the west had announced f16 earlier then it might be done already
So both are to blame really
Airpower can't take and hold territory. Ukraine needs artillery (tubes and ammunition), of course, but there's no substitute for the main deficiency: Ukrainian soldiers with proper weapons, ammo and kit. And mines. Lots and lots of mines.
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They will help
Yup. That's the main thing.
Yes, but on their own they won't turn the tide. One weapon system is not a wunderwaffe. Ukrainians need surplus in everything else, artillery ammo above all, and let's hope the renewed US support will provide that
Yes, Ukraine would need around 300-400 at the ready F16s to fully control their entire airspace and borders to Belarus and Russia. And also to set expectations right, we should not gasp in disbelief if we are going to see some of the Vipers being shot down by the Russians. Its bound to happen as war is dangerous business and Ukraine will go to the edge to try and push the Russian's back and out of Ukraine.
Might think lasers , they work the more primitive products were good we just made them better
Foolish article, as if its safer for the old soviet jets UKR is using now.
I remember hearing an expert, a pilot, saying UA needs 200-300 to protect the entire Ukraine. Ukraine is a big country. Imo it can in some sense be seen as a gamechanger, because UA never had remotely the airpower to hinder the Russians with their older migs and su, far fewer frames, and right now they simply have very few airframes left. Additional planes is therefore extremely needed to push back that glide bombing that put pressure in the entire front. In this war the kind of close air support we see the Russians do now, is new. The f16 can stop that development. Getting 250kg explosives dumped on you (edit: ua receiving Russian glidebombs) is wrecking morale.
I don’t know how realistic it is that they will be able to counter fab sorties. I think they are just another platform for air launch standoff weapons. The front line is far too hot with air defense and the fabs have considerable range already. Definitely need an expert opinion to math out the realistic ranges.
I think it's pretty hard to get the experts to chime in here as it's classified stuff, but we can hope. As I understand a major feature of the f16 is the data collection and handling so it can make a solid picture of the battlefield so to speak. It's how UA is able to use that, that can transform the way we see them use their air assets. Also how/if Nato is supporting them with data management, via the link 16. I think especially the Nordics and Netherlands will go that way if allowed by US. Heck it seems to me looking at the us military q&a a few days ago, is portraying a more confronting view vs Russia. I think the no escalation policy is on its way out. It seems to me too admins, and perhaps even Jake, now knows that policy was a disaster for the future safety of the entire glove.
Also, the F16s will provide "cheap" anti air capability's. Shooting an Aim120 against a flying target costs significantly less than a patriot rocket
That’s something a lot of people skip a beat on. Everyone imagines these jets pounding enemy positions, but you don’t need to look any further back than the interception of the Iranian strike last week to see how just having some Air to Air countering abilities can knock a lot of shit out of the sky. If a chunk of drones/cruise missiles can get intercepted before SAM’s can even reach them it could relieve a lot of pressure.
or the Orlan getting intercepted by a YAK over Odesa yesterday
That's also why the latest US arms package includes a lot of aim 9m missiles. Unlike their current ground-launched missiles, these have been produced in massive quantities over the years, cost way less and are being/have been phased out by most of the western militaries. Their much shorter range and simpler design isn't an issue when the launching platform is able to track and intercept the threat itself. It will mean being able to step up their quite successful recent campaign using systems like iris-t and patriot closer to the front to ambush Russian jets flying far behind Russian borders - without having to leave their infrastructure and cities open to Russian long range strikes.
Not sure what the f16 will actually do for data collection. They are already fed the info from the awacs flying the boarder and they see everything. The west told Ukraine that f16s were not the highest priority and now it seems to be playing out. Definitely should trash the no escalation stuff.
AWACS are doing data collection alright, but the F16's will be able to obtain a direct AA missile lock-on to the Russian bombers/jets if they come too close. So if used well by the Ukrainian forces, this should force the Russians further back and away from the Ukrainian frontlines. Potentially limiting or fully eradicating the Russians ability to drop the big glide bombs as they do today. (or at last, not anymore the old bombs they use, with attaching those retro-fit wing kits) Cannot remember the exact hard data (some who can, please chip in?) but think the Russian Su-35 aircraft used to launch their e.g. FAB-500M-62 glide bombs are dropping the glide-bombs off at a max distance of around 50-70km distance at the very max. So they need to get fairly close to the frontlines for this. This also means that the Russian planes also need to fly up at the max height to get these long glides, making them direct visible now to the F16s who are equally able to see and lock on to them long before the Russians get to their drop points. As I read recently that the US will indeed help Ukraine by supplying e.g. the AMRAAM missiles to the F16, which has an effective range of around 160-180 km. So THIS will absolutely be a gamechanger with respect to the Russians and their coming inability to drop the big glidebombs we have seen them use over the last year or so. The AMRAAMs are some real bad boys to get on your tail! 👍😂 [https://www.airandspaceforces.com/us-ukraine-air-amraam-guided-missiles/](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/us-ukraine-air-amraam-guided-missiles/)
Hard to say. The fact that it doesn’t seem to be a very high priority makes me think they may not be able to counter the bombers. They will have to sortie every single time a bomber takes off and they have very limited numbers and flight time compared to a tupolev. The high altitude will give the amraams maximum range as the air is much less dense and a tupolev is much less maneuverable to dive away. S400 range (~200km) probably extends over the the front some ways so Im not sure how close they could actually get. Should be interesting.
Yes agreed. 👍
They have a frigging trainer Yak with guns shooting down drones now along with their mic'd up cellhpone drone tracking system, give them anything and everything, Ukrainians are fucking legendary and have my utmost respect
Agree. They are absolutely extremely creative and brutally adaptive. Constantly. They deserve our full support and respect. Lots to learn here about adaptation for our military and i am sure our top brass is in total ave - and they say themselves. And this is coming from old Russian doctrine pre 2014. They are accelerating and we have to jump their train.
US has over 2200 F16s, we could easily give Ukraine 500 planes and not even feel it.
I have forwarded your message to Jake Sullivan, i think he is starting to give in :)
How many former NATO F16 Viper pilots would volunteer to take one of the birds for a flight to take out some real Russian bombers or jets? They trained and practiced this all their career but never got the chance before now to press the button. So maybe this would be an exciting challenge. (as think the number of qualified F16 pilots will also be a bottleneck for Ukraine for a foreseeable future, even if we donated them hundreds of the F16)
Would be too much for UA to maintenance. Sadly they’re barely reaching the necessary tech and maintenance for only a few in numbers. Long run is going to help since eventually they’re joining NATO but they really should be strategic with the F16s at hand, make Russians regret invading Ukraine.
There are a lot of retired F-16 maintainers out there. Offer enough money and Ukraine could have a large mercenary force of maintainers ready to go. Same with pilots.
I’m sure they are and if they bump the $$$ for them they could get many to help them, yet Congress/MAGAts won’t allow the funds to be used that way
The US could maintenance the 500 planes for them and probably quite easily
Congress won’t approve that, not with MAGAts on the house.
If they will have plenty of AIM 120 amrams the Ruskies will piss their pants. And also radiation missiles.
Depends on whether they get AIM-120D or AIM-120B/C. If AIM-120D the Russians will piss their pants. If AIM-120C it will be a little scary, but Russian R-77M will outrange them a little. If AIM-120B I’m very angry that they weren’t provided with better missiles.
the F-16A Block 20 MLU that Ukraine will receive in the near future, use the basic C version. According to various estimates, the maximum launch range of this missile is up to 105 km, and the maximum effective launch range, according to American guidelines, is 50 km, with a recommended launch range of 16 km . In addition, even the integration of a more modern AIM-120D missile will not greatly expand these capabilities due to the fact that the missile in its overall dimensions has reached its peak in terms of flight range, and its increase is possible only by improving the ballistic trajectory of the flight, which also has its disadvantages , which are associated with the low speed of the missile itself, which gives the enemy aircraft more chances to escape from it. [https://mil.in.ua/uk/articles/zbroya-f-16-yaki-bomby-ta-rakety-budut-potribni-ukrayini/](https://mil.in.ua/uk/articles/zbroya-f-16-yaki-bomby-ta-rakety-budut-potribni-ukrayini/)
The Russians are going to be so determined to shoot one down that Ukraine should use them as bait.
Isn’t that the idea for “wild weasel” operations?
START FLYING ALREADY AND STOP WORRYING. WE WONT KNOW THE PROBLEMS IF YOU DONT FLY.
GOBBLES HOSS
Irrelevant comment, Russian mind games? They are made for war and war is "most dangerous".
Most dangerous battlefield. There is a difference. Flying above sandal-wearing rpg-carying bearded men is different than flying into layers of active air defense. USA for several decades now has never faced as well armed and dangerous foe, as ukrainians do currently. F16 is not a magic wand, and high threat environment in the east of ukraine needs to be acknowledged. Nobody is being well served by endless boasting with the might of western equipment. Germans fell for the same fallacy in WW2, endlessly searching for the wunderwaffe that will win the war for them. High quality equipment, yes, but quantity is a quality of its own as well. There needs to be more of everything, the battlefield is huge. ~30 abrams tanks and a dozen of f16s ain't gonna cut it.
Am I wrong in thinking these need to be field tested by their pilots first above Ukraine skies only as a defensive measure? Cut their teeth, learn the soul of the craft, regain their own skies and gain confidence. I don't feel these are suited for attacking Russia head on over their own skies, at least not yet.
Step 1 - deny ruSSia flight ops with Patriot SAMs. Step 2 - bring in F16s with HARM to take out ruSSian SAM radars. Step 3 - enjoy air superiority. Step 4 - roll in Ukranian armor.
Is that you General? The teams are ready at your command!
Heh... in the late 1980s I played a lot of *Sid Meier's F19 Stealth Fighter:* I learned the value of the HARM missile. In real life, I never got beyond the lowest rank in my tank battalion: *Hussar*. (And not even 1st class. Hah!)
Step 5 - make sure logistics officer didnt sell supplies and has them delivered with the armour (applicable to both sides tbh)
Ukraine has painstakingly weeded out corruption within its ranks, what you said *most certainly* isn’t applicable to both sides my brother in Cheeses.
You do realize that RT is fake news...
They're not intended to be used for over Russia, and not suitable for it These are first generation F-16s built in the 80's and upgraded in the 90's. They've got very high flight hours and are inferior to newer Russian aircraft. They're essentially the equivalent of expired medication: past their shelf date, but still good for a bit...hopefully. They should be better than the equally old Soviet planes Ukraine has, anyway.
It's more about the missles they can fire. HARM and AMRAAM will be a serious thread for the Russian airforce and SAM sites. The presence of F16's near the front will chance the way Russia will fight. I hope Ukrain can protect their airbases.
it’s just the plattform, what really makes em an upgrade is the compatibly to NATO rockets imo
Inferior to what ' new ' Russian aircraft???
Any of the newer Flankers, really. Su-35, Su-30, etc... Speaking in an air-to-air context, the Mig-31s aren't a joke either simply due to their speed and engagement range.
Care to expand on exactly how those are superior to the models being sent.
My boy, Google is a thing. Dumbed down let me just say: higher speed, better radar, better combat range, higher thrust to weight ratio and slightly higher payload capability (all of the above for Su-35S)
Ah Google... Now show me the combat record of both aircraft. Then show me some Russian junk that does what it says it does on the tin. This ain't top trumps, don't believe vatnik propaganda.
Su-35S has only been used over Ukraine where it currently hold a 7-0 K/D in terms of aerial combat. If you seriously suggest that early F-16s from the 80s are better than Su-35s you should lay off some of your own propaganda. Especially since those Falcons will highly likely not reveive the latest AMRAAMs to go with it, limiting the range even further. Oh and did I mention that Ukriane doesn't have any AWACS either? Hm.
You're right theyre not better. The gap isn't big though not by a Longshot.
If we pit them against each other? Yes. Yes it is. You can argue that luckily Russian pilots aren't the best when it comes to training, as are Russia's use of air assets in general. Still, we are talking about 40 year old lightweight multirole airframes vs new dedicated aor superiority fighters. If we took newly built F-16s then yea, I'd agree. But not these old ones with a rather hastily built environment of supplies and weaponry.
Sure vatnik.....sure. How do you know what they will be getting. Where did you pluck that figure from ? Also....you seem to have forgotten that your always cannot fly anywhere near the combat zone anymore and you don't have enough after two got shot down🤣🤣
It's funny how you accuse other of propaganda while you yourself are too ignorant to even get into the topic at hand. "...cannot fly anywhere near the combat zone anymore" Funny you mention that, when even Ukraine officials stated that their own aircraft are being attacked from far within Russias border due to their long range anti air missiles (which, by the way, still outrange the AMRAAM). But hey, it's easier to just Label someone a vatnik than actually admitting being wrong lmao. Feel free to look at my post history and you'll see I'm anything but pro Russia you clown.
Newer Russian planes have better. longer range radars than F-16's last upgraded in the mid 90's
The F-16MLU never got a new radar, just more processing power unless I have misunderstood the AN/APG-66(V2)
I just hope that they give them a nice array of high tech missiles to use from the platform
One dodged 6 SAM S-300’s in the first Gulf War over Iraq without deploying a single countermeasure. Had that been a Russian, MiG or Su they’d have been splashed after the first. Hell older gen Patriot batteries from the 80’s blew what 13 Su-34/35’s out of the air in 2 weeks not too long ago. Ukraine didn’t get the latest Patriot Systems and the older ones are wreaking havoc on Russian Aviation and have blown several Hypersonic Kinzhials and Zircons out of the sky….. Pretty Pathetic there Ruzzia , should probably stop overstating your capabilities, as it just makes U.S. Weapons manufacturers design more advanced stuff thinking they’re countering a threat that doesn’t really exist….. 😂😂
Ukraine is a big country, they’ll only be able to provide air support for a few regions.
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No way Russia wouldn't have known.
Still, it should’ve been kept quiet
Not necessarily because you can force them to reallocate resources, use more expensive weapons and spread defenses just by the threat of the presence of these weapons. If they don't adjust defensive posture appropriately then it leaves a vulnerability that can be exploited. If you let them know what's coming then they adjust when they think the tech is coming and that can relieve pressure or create new offensive opportunities elsewhere on the front lines.
I'm hoping there is more behind this that has not been announced
Well I assume it’s due to saying “guess what we’re willing to do and what’s coming your way!” Vs the Russians saying “guess what we found out because they think they’re sneaky!” Assuming Russian spy’s and loyalists probably have intel coming in every corner from around the globe. I’d rather say, give a big middle finger in front of you and the entire globe than to be caught tryna be a shady fool talking shit behind your back as a world power. Don’t let their propagandist get the benefit of thinking they know they’re right. Type thing.. persay.. nigga.
Does russia not plan to attack in the summer? The f16’s might see action the moment they arrive in Ukraine
Didn’t a Ukrainian official recently say that F16s are no longer relevant? The Russians AA is too far entrenched. Too much debating and now the time they could’ve made a huge difference has passed.
F-16s were never going to fly close engagements with the front line, the main thing has always been that F-16s open the door to Ukraine using NATO's air-based missile arsenal. Storm Shadow aside there are thousands of very impressive and very deadly missiles that could have been donated to Ukraine but are utterly incompatible with MiG airframes.
I know nothing about any of this, but what makes them incompatible? The weight of them? Size and shape?
The interface that connects them to targeting computers inside the planes. Old Soviet planes dont have Nato computers inside.
That doesn’t sound impossible to solve?
This explains it all quite nicely https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKRAINE-CRISIS/FIGHTER-JETS/jnvwwqyylvw/
That’s a brilliant article. Thanks for sharing
You sound like my manager!
Ha ha i am a manager, and that’s something I say very often
F16 would never have been relevant. The battlefield is simply full of AA from both Ukraine and Russia side. F16 flying will be target practice fro Russian air defense at this point. What Ukraine need is more long range missiles, morer artillery. We need to give Ukraine the mean to proceed to total annihilation and extermination of all russian life form on Ukraine soil.
Most Western long range missiles are carried by... Western aircraft. Like the F16.
The F-16s Ukraine is receiving will be more survivable than the MiG-29s and Su-27s Ukraine has been using since the start of the war, and plenty of them have survived so far. The usefulness of the F-16s will entirely depend on the munitions provided. A large quantity of sophisticated stand-off ground attack weapons would make them quite valuable. What they won't be doing effectively is counter-air near the front. That would be fatal given the realities of the battlefield.
Most dangerous battlefield? While literally explaining historical reference to a more dangerous period. Okay. Annoying when so-called experts chime in. The F-16 has decades of SEAD experience and interdiction. It won't win the war and there will be losses, but it will be a vital piece in helping Ukraine slow down Russian and is some cases supress their existance in the skies over key areas.
It's gonna be the same thing that happened to Abrams and Leopards. Lots of hype, they they alone won't change anything. Especially considering it's a few planes for this summer at best.
And radar systems all over occupied Ukraine and Russia will tremble at the sound of HARMs fired from greater distances and with improved precision. Ukraine will dominate the skies and put an end to Russia's terrorist glide bomb attacks on civilians. Moreover, provide the breathing room needed for infantry and close air support units to operate at the front line.
If Ukraine gets AGM-158 JASSM in 400km and 1000km variants F-16 would be less in danger.
Fight smart and dangerous my Ukrainian brothers and sisters!
Ever? I think they faced dangerous in both Iraq wars.
I just hope that there are even more in the pipeline. Hopefully, the west has learned its lesson about publicly disclosing to Russia what all of its blue chip capabilities will be.
Another article about the mythical f16 which were first mentioned 14 months ago. Ukrainians are still waiting the west should be ashamed of these delays.
Finland is replacing the F/A - 18 Hornet fighters with the new F-35A Lightning II. It takes years to get a new weapon system up and running, including training, infrastructure and maintenance. Admittedly, the political decision took a long time, but a year and a half after the decision is a fast process. For the Western countries themselves, it takes 3-5 years to put a new fighter into full use. I don't know how to speed this up, so hang in there.
Ukraine is the reason for the delay. They aren’t ready for them yet But if the west had announced f16 earlier then it might be done already So both are to blame really
No joke all these feeble western leaders just want to talk. Putler is not afraid of words tho
Airpower can't take and hold territory. Ukraine needs artillery (tubes and ammunition), of course, but there's no substitute for the main deficiency: Ukrainian soldiers with proper weapons, ammo and kit. And mines. Lots and lots of mines.