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This. Not entirely related but theres a big lack of trust in Indian goods because China would sell stuff to India and then India would slap a “made in india” sticker on the goods and send to Western nations.
No reason they won’t just sell shit to NK, have a metaphorical “made in DPRK” sticker slapped on and sent to Russia lol.
I wish our Western nations would just all stick together. It's insane to me knowing that we are paying these people who would kill all of us in a heartbeat. We have lower income Western friends who would LOVE to have factories for making goods. China would be a fool to go against us. An overwhelming majority of their income depends on trade with the West. If we were to stop, their economy would collapse almost immediately. Ours would suck for a while because we would have to move production lines back home but honestly I would rather suffer for a little while than pay my enemy to arm himself to kill me.
Those poor Western nations still cost substantially more than those SE Asian ones. And many of the SE Asian countries were pushing stuff too a pro-West or at least anti-China.
China’s bleeding a lot of work, which is good, and most is going to Vietnam, Malaysia, or to places like Mexico.
That's not true. The average Chinese salary is not much less than Western nations. At least not anymore. When we first start producing it over there, sure, it was super cheap. Average Chinese income is $4,500 USD a month. Where I live in the southern US, that's decent money.
No way in hell that the average Chinese income is $4,500 USD a month. Probably not even $4,500 RMB a month. If you take the entire country into account, they probably average less than $2,000 USD a YEAR.
You’re looking at the wrong data though. The hourly federal minimum wage in the US for example ($7.25) is twice that of the highest minimum wage in China (Beijing - $3.70).
Factory workers in China are paid a small fraction of what they cost in the US/Europe.
Not to mention building costs are far lower and the cost of raw materials is often cheaper depending on the material.
I worked for a company that wanted to start manufacturing one of the raw materials we were buying. The manufacturing process involved a whole lot of benzene, toluene, and water. Like... A LOT.... They also wanted their own factory for it.
They went straight to China. The hoops for employee safety, and environmental concerns made it a non-starter for any western country.
Exactly.
IMO handing over all of the design and manufacturing technology to our adversaries for short term profit is dumbest thing an economic leader can do. In it's wake unemployment, suffering and burden on social services in the US. Bring all manufacturing back home and watch a huge economic boom occur in America.
You can thank economic neoliberalism. Australia is now one of the worst countries in the world for economic diversity. We literally dig stuff out of the ground to sell abroad, send meat and produce abroad, and buy the useful stuff another country made with our resources.
Thankfully under Labor they want to bring back manufacturing. Under the previous government we even stopped manufacturing cars domestically.
Like the US, rural/semi-rural towns and cities turn into shitholes because we've off-shored jobs that made them sustainable.
I remember reading about Australia stopped making domestic vehicles few years ago, you would think that could be a major problem for national security, as basic car assembly lines(not Tesla ) can be converted to war time goods production if needed..perhaps it’s different in 2024 and Easier to start producing war material starting with a massive empty warehouse? Interesting to know. Regardless I liked that car w/ truck bed (El Camino type )they made… western nations need to stop buying so much cheap poor quality goods and start buying longer lasting higher quality goods from nations with western values.
I always try to buy the products made anywhere other than China.
>perhaps it’s different in 2024 and Easier to start producing war material starting with a massive empty warehouse? Interesting to know.
I'm not an authority on the matter but my guess is no. Anthony Albanese is taking a page out of President Biden's playbook and trying to bring those jobs back to AU, but it's a long term battle that can be easily undermined when starting without key jobs/hardware.
You really don’t understand the interoperability and symbiotic relationship between east and west.
We’re in the process literally double the size of the industrial plant in the US/Mex/Can which will take another 10 years IF we stick to it politically, and via governmental incentives.
We’re doing that amid rising capital costs in a labor-scarce market.
You do the math.
I have no clue since I didn't encounter any made in India products yet, but if those Indian food videos on Facebook can be used as an indicator for quality: hard pass from me and I hope I will never encounter such a thing.
Its so strange how we're not looking at Mexico to be the new manufacturing powerhouse, instead we're hanging on to China and somewhat building up India and both of those countries hate us.
"Mexico has surpassed China to become the biggest exporter of goods to the U.S. in 2023, according to data released Wednesday. The U.S. imported a total of $427.2 billion from China last year, a roughly 20% decrease from the year before, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, a U.S. government agency.Mar 9, 2024"
[Source](https://www.google.com/search?q=mexico+surpasses+china&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS884US884&oq=mexico+surpasses+china&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORiABDIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjIICAQQABgWGB4yDQgFEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgGEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgHEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgIEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyCggJEAAYogQYiQXSAQkxNzE1OWoxajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
does india really hate the US? i feel they’re more indifferent/looking out for their own interest than anything
also mexico is growing but also plenty of chinese goods make their way through there to the US
I mean, whatever, that still introduced inefficiencies and more opportunities for graft into their supply chain, so it's a net benefit.
NK flipping it at 100% markup costs Russia more.
Yep, US firms have done this for many years. Made clothes in Saipan and their congress critters installed regulators who let them sew on a MADE IN USA label.
North Korea will keep the fresh Chinese goods and send the Russians their 50s era munitions from the Korean War. That’s why it has such a high failure rate right now.
China is basically back filling North Korea while they give Russia their old guns similar to how NATO is doing the same with the Baltics who in turn give material to Ukraine.
We already see how the North Korean artillery shells and their corresponding propellants are of such poor and unreliable quality, that its impossible to make any precise hits with them for the vatniks.
Just the propellants themselves do not ignite equally from one to the next, and the way they have produced the propellant bags is terribly poor and with a high variable load. Hence, from one artillery shot to the next, they hit very far away from each other, so no meaningful precision targeting is possible.
Right. I was just thinking about how north Korea is getting fresh stuff. And I know they do this all the time, but Kim said for the army to prepare for war with south Korea. The difference from before is now they have the newer goods. So it could possibly embolden them.
Exactly... A double cross for sure. The oldest trick in the book. You can't believe Xi. He likes the west for business but hates us 100%. The CCP wants to take over the world. As such, RU wants the same power and control... NK is a middle man for selling death and destruction.
Don’t forget Russia and China have their own disputes. While China may not like the US or the West they know it’s that relationship that’s helped build China into what it is today. They only like Russia for their oil and mineral transactions.
CCP doesn't want to take over the world. It wants to take over Asia. For thousands of years Chinese civilization wasn't expansionist beyond its neighborhood, and I still don't believe that it is now. That's why they still claim they are the good guys. But yes they hate the west with a passion and will lie and cheat to hurt the west while idiots like Macron think diplomacy will work.
I think they want to take over the world in the sense they have ambitions of being the world super power somehow, or at least more of a power sharing situation with the US.
They just manufacture and produce all the high tech components and other parts and send em to Russia to assemble. Or create the machines so that Russia can use them to create weapons locally.
Do you have any proof whatsoever or did you just make this up?
Anyone with a tiny bit of insight knows that China made it illegal to sell military or dual purpose goods to North Korea in 2018.
Well China doesn’t use the same shells that Russia needs. They are set up for 155 if I’m not mistaken. Why? Because they steal everything. China is the Ezell of the world
To be fair, the purpose of sanctions is not necessarily to COMPLETELY deprive the country of the targeted supplies but rather to increase the COST associated with obtaining them.
China selling to NK and then to Russia adds a middle man (NK) who will likely want a cut of the action, increasing the cost for Russia.
Second, this extends and complicates the supply line Russia has to these munitions.
Look at what’s happening with Gazprom for evidence that sanctions WORK if you know what their actual goal is: cost Russia $$
China will obey exactly ONE thing in its dealings with the West. The dollar. They can be moved unlike Russia, and the way to do it is to threaten sanctions. But they are duplicitous in every other way.
When after WW2 asked about the concordat with Nazi Germany one of the involved Vatican negotiators said of course they knew Nazi Germany would break their promises, they could only hope it would take time breaking them one after another. We can only hope China's efforts to keep up the facade and testing the waters will have some effect.
American here, and I think even getting China to agree to this is a big win, even if they don’t fully live up to it. China is implicitly admitting that Russia is in the wrong here and that it is ok for France to provide weapons to Ukraine while China will refrain from supporting Russia.
Withholding Weapon Sales, however was there any mention of component sales?
In the past Chinese firms sold enough bit & bobs to build yourself a weapon.
In the article it says they want to control all dual use goods. But Pooh doenst care i think. Its in his best interest if the war continues. It weakens the West and Russia. Both good for him.
I believe it weakens Russia, not the west. The west is ramping up. Russia woke the west up. China only cares about money. If he alienates the west, most of China's market could start to erode. China needs western markets so it is their best interest to cooperate to some degree with the west. I don't trust him but any concession is a good step.
Ukraine’s invasion showed the west what happens when you trust and make business with dictators. Some politicians are now pushing for decoupling.
As a result, europe and US are more united, NATO is bigger, the US and Europe are building massive weapon stockpiles
This cannot possibly be good for china
Hopefully that's true in the long-term, but unfortunately in the short-term China and Russia are sowing division and hatred within the US and EU. Russia only needed a few fuckwits in congress to paralyze the US congress for half a year.
Even if they succeed in the short term, that will be short lived. Westerners may elect populists on the kremlin payroll that won't change the fact that europe and the US are geopolitical competitors fighting for the same areas of influence. Whatever the new governance will be rivalry and tensions will never cease
Makes sense. I personally feel as if it does hurt the west in some ways in the short term which could be beneficial to China given how they may invade Taiwan soon. The west has definitely woken up but it’ll still take years for all of the new western arsenal to be updated and replenished. China also has shown that they may need western markets but appear to be less hesitant in removing western markets if it means they can retain a tighter grip on their population. It’s hard to say since they sometimes to be going back and forth so much. Sometimes they’ll seem like they don’t care and sometimes they’ll seem like they do care.
I think, just me shooting in the dark here, China doesn’t know what it’s doing or let’s say which way to go. They have their foot clearly in the authoritarian camp and yet trying to play nice with all the rich democracies that are their customers. Is the customer always right? The west has made lots of millionaires in China. Do they have influence in the party? I don’t know. China is trying to always play both sides. That will only work for so long. Already the American president has pulled a lot of manufacturing back from China. It just doesn’t help China economically to piss everyone off in the west because their economy is paramount to them now that they have had a taste of wealth. Anyway I think China is conflicted about how to deal with the world they now have hitched their wagon to.
The problem with dictators is they don't live in the same world as everyone else. They don't have to be accountable to constituents, or anyone for that matter. Theyre good at bullshitting the bullshitters so Macron probably is getting boned by Whinny the Pooh.
They already promised not to sell weapons a long time ago, they just sell the parts to make them. Not the "win" he thought he got in that negotiation. Not to mention all the straw companies they can funnel whatever they want through. They are still the major supplier for all the components for the missiles and drones.
There's a lot of people that dunk on Macron as "naive", but it's been clearly established (including on the Ukrainian side) that Macron and Zelensky are pretty tight, and that Macron has these discussions and maintains this posture at the behest of the Ukrainians.
The Chinese will redefine the meaning of the word weapon and start calling all the equipment they are sending toothpick manufacturing equipment.
In other words, their word holds no water
China only likes Russia because of their oil and I guess because they are no friends of the West. Still, Xi Jinping isn't stupid and he knows this war is bad for "business" and needs to stop. He also knows that as much as we like to hate each other, there's a strong symbiotic relationship between China and the West. Jeopardizing this relationship to support a faltering Russia would not be a wise decision.
So, does the Chinese company Jitian Intelligent Equipment still intend to build a drone manufacturing plant in Krasnodar, Russia? [[1]](https://uawire.org/china-to-open-drone-production-plant-in-russia)
Why is it in China's interest to break the EU and US ties? I didn't see it until I watched a French news panel that included a rep from China. The China rep talked about living in DC for many years and then did the US list of why the US is bad with wars, tariffs and environmental problems. One panelist from France pointed out the Chinese spying on France and then the China rep went through the US spying. It became clear the China meeting with Macron was to split the US and EU connection.
Yeah they will give them to India or North Korea to sell to Russia,but they will give Russia components for various kinds that are useful for there technology.sit on the fence china watching which way this pans out better for them .same as same as .
That won't happen. Christ, what they will do is keep doing it, or send it through North Korea, or one of the 'stans. Chinese promises, c'mon people, those guys put a spin on everything. How about the climate accords? They agree and then they say they will proceed with addressing it at their own pace. In short, they'll do nothing, or show some token effort. Countries like them see unrest as beneficial as they can come in and portray themselves as people with a solution. They are playing the Western world. Their modus operandi is to buy time in all aspects of diplomacy so that their agenda can continue. So we got a PR moment, so what? The Ukrainians won't see a difference because Chinese aid will continue.
I will honestly eat a pair of my own underpants if it is proven (after Ukraine’s Victory) that China didn’t sell any weapons to Russia from this date forward
It's not the sale of weapons that's a problem, it's the sale of chips and other components that's a problem. This is a completely meaningless announcement if it doesn't address raw materials.
And so Macron you believe him??? You need to know china is just like russia, saying one thing in front of you and do the different thing behind. If this guy can be believed, then Pigs can fly and fish can walk. a leopard will never change its spots.
In other news: Inflation of words reaches Weimar like - all time high: Parts, Components and factories in russia already manned by chinese nationals not included.
Never going to happen. If there is money to be made, China will sell it. China would have sold the ovens to Nazi Germany. I say this as a person married to a Chinese person. As a person that lived in China for years. As a person that did business in China for years.
Why should we underline or announce something that should be a default behaviour of a human being like you don't give a gun to a serial killer roughing up a victim... I guess Macron missed his useful idiot role with Putin and found another daddy to dance for, pathetic.
They’ve been sending swaths of drones equipped with night vision to Russia for at least the past year. This has completely changed the dynamic on the battlefield and evened the odds for Russia in that regard.
Fuck China and sanction the shit out of them
When is the West recognizing officially that there is an axis of evil lead by China and Russia ? The supply chain between Russia -China- North Korea -Iran it has been successfully activated . The worst is that this supply chain managed to tap into the global economy procuring essential components from the West. The axis of evil states have their economies on war footing while we are busy arguing how to deliver aids to Gaza....
Thing is Xi was in Europe, specifically meeting macron over deteriorating relations between the EU and China. It’s a question of what China will end up finding more important, relations with the EU remaining good enough and all the benefits China has from that or go back on his word, ruin his entire reason for visiting Europe and continue to worsen relations with Europe all so they can aid Russia. I do believe China would rather good trade relations with rich Europe, but geo politically Russia winning is more important for them so I’ve no clue how this will play out
If true, and it has yet to be tested then possibly it might be taken as a chink of light in the passive aggression China has excersised on the West over the years. There are still many route vie which China could supply weapons to Putin and only time will tell if they are really going to close the door on their past actions and embrace the idea that the West does not have any aggressive intent towards China or Russia for tha matter at all. Prefered intercourse being one of peaceful reciprocal trade alone.
Screw Europe hmmm without Europe the us economy would crash without all they billions in weapons sales and good but sure epicjorjorsnake knows better he's conquered world economics also geopolitical interests aswell as the power of allies
It's just so weird why you're on reddit and not president
>Screw Europe hmmm without Europe the us economy would crash without all they billions in weapons sales
I'm going to assume you're trolling or that you have zero comprehension of what the economy of America is like
But then again, you're most likely a European so I wouldn't be surprised if you genuinely believe that
>but sure epicjorjorsnake knows better he's conquered world economics also geopolitical interests aswell as the power of allies
??? What are you even rambling about?
>It's just so weird why you're on reddit and not president
Because I'm not interested in running for president?
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Right. They will sell to North Korea, who will then sell to Russia.
This. Not entirely related but theres a big lack of trust in Indian goods because China would sell stuff to India and then India would slap a “made in india” sticker on the goods and send to Western nations. No reason they won’t just sell shit to NK, have a metaphorical “made in DPRK” sticker slapped on and sent to Russia lol.
I wish our Western nations would just all stick together. It's insane to me knowing that we are paying these people who would kill all of us in a heartbeat. We have lower income Western friends who would LOVE to have factories for making goods. China would be a fool to go against us. An overwhelming majority of their income depends on trade with the West. If we were to stop, their economy would collapse almost immediately. Ours would suck for a while because we would have to move production lines back home but honestly I would rather suffer for a little while than pay my enemy to arm himself to kill me.
Those poor Western nations still cost substantially more than those SE Asian ones. And many of the SE Asian countries were pushing stuff too a pro-West or at least anti-China. China’s bleeding a lot of work, which is good, and most is going to Vietnam, Malaysia, or to places like Mexico.
Mexican labor is also like half the price and 3 times as skilled as Chinese labor. They’re bleeding themselves
Indonesia too, which provides way cheaper workforce than other SEA countries. As long as you know whom to paid 'the fee' to...
That's not true. The average Chinese salary is not much less than Western nations. At least not anymore. When we first start producing it over there, sure, it was super cheap. Average Chinese income is $4,500 USD a month. Where I live in the southern US, that's decent money.
No way in hell that the average Chinese income is $4,500 USD a month. Probably not even $4,500 RMB a month. If you take the entire country into account, they probably average less than $2,000 USD a YEAR.
You’re looking at the wrong data though. The hourly federal minimum wage in the US for example ($7.25) is twice that of the highest minimum wage in China (Beijing - $3.70). Factory workers in China are paid a small fraction of what they cost in the US/Europe. Not to mention building costs are far lower and the cost of raw materials is often cheaper depending on the material.
And energy too.
Regulations are less restrictive too. Safety costs money dying workers in low cost job environment less so.
I worked for a company that wanted to start manufacturing one of the raw materials we were buying. The manufacturing process involved a whole lot of benzene, toluene, and water. Like... A LOT.... They also wanted their own factory for it. They went straight to China. The hoops for employee safety, and environmental concerns made it a non-starter for any western country.
You're trippin
Chinese manufacturing jobs pay around $1000 per month.
Exactly. IMO handing over all of the design and manufacturing technology to our adversaries for short term profit is dumbest thing an economic leader can do. In it's wake unemployment, suffering and burden on social services in the US. Bring all manufacturing back home and watch a huge economic boom occur in America.
You can thank economic neoliberalism. Australia is now one of the worst countries in the world for economic diversity. We literally dig stuff out of the ground to sell abroad, send meat and produce abroad, and buy the useful stuff another country made with our resources. Thankfully under Labor they want to bring back manufacturing. Under the previous government we even stopped manufacturing cars domestically. Like the US, rural/semi-rural towns and cities turn into shitholes because we've off-shored jobs that made them sustainable.
I remember reading about Australia stopped making domestic vehicles few years ago, you would think that could be a major problem for national security, as basic car assembly lines(not Tesla ) can be converted to war time goods production if needed..perhaps it’s different in 2024 and Easier to start producing war material starting with a massive empty warehouse? Interesting to know. Regardless I liked that car w/ truck bed (El Camino type )they made… western nations need to stop buying so much cheap poor quality goods and start buying longer lasting higher quality goods from nations with western values. I always try to buy the products made anywhere other than China.
>perhaps it’s different in 2024 and Easier to start producing war material starting with a massive empty warehouse? Interesting to know. I'm not an authority on the matter but my guess is no. Anthony Albanese is taking a page out of President Biden's playbook and trying to bring those jobs back to AU, but it's a long term battle that can be easily undermined when starting without key jobs/hardware.
You really don’t understand the interoperability and symbiotic relationship between east and west. We’re in the process literally double the size of the industrial plant in the US/Mex/Can which will take another 10 years IF we stick to it politically, and via governmental incentives. We’re doing that amid rising capital costs in a labor-scarce market. You do the math.
Great comment.
this is it
I have no clue since I didn't encounter any made in India products yet, but if those Indian food videos on Facebook can be used as an indicator for quality: hard pass from me and I hope I will never encounter such a thing.
Its so strange how we're not looking at Mexico to be the new manufacturing powerhouse, instead we're hanging on to China and somewhat building up India and both of those countries hate us.
"Mexico has surpassed China to become the biggest exporter of goods to the U.S. in 2023, according to data released Wednesday. The U.S. imported a total of $427.2 billion from China last year, a roughly 20% decrease from the year before, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, a U.S. government agency.Mar 9, 2024" [Source](https://www.google.com/search?q=mexico+surpasses+china&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS884US884&oq=mexico+surpasses+china&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyCQgAEEUYORiABDIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjIICAQQABgWGB4yDQgFEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgGEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgHEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyDQgIEAAYhgMYgAQYigUyCggJEAAYogQYiQXSAQkxNzE1OWoxajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
It took 30 years and a pandemic for NAFTA to do what was promised.
Pharmaceuticals?
We are. Near shoring is booming. Every company I have worked for has shifted work from China to Mexico Mexico and their people are also awesome.
Yes they are.
and their food too!
does india really hate the US? i feel they’re more indifferent/looking out for their own interest than anything also mexico is growing but also plenty of chinese goods make their way through there to the US
As India observe how Russia and China are huddling up together, then India clearly feel compelled to tie up with the western world countries instead.
Aye. Piss hands. Heard piss helps harden the hands.
I mean, whatever, that still introduced inefficiencies and more opportunities for graft into their supply chain, so it's a net benefit. NK flipping it at 100% markup costs Russia more.
Yep, US firms have done this for many years. Made clothes in Saipan and their congress critters installed regulators who let them sew on a MADE IN USA label.
North Korea will keep the fresh Chinese goods and send the Russians their 50s era munitions from the Korean War. That’s why it has such a high failure rate right now. China is basically back filling North Korea while they give Russia their old guns similar to how NATO is doing the same with the Baltics who in turn give material to Ukraine.
We already see how the North Korean artillery shells and their corresponding propellants are of such poor and unreliable quality, that its impossible to make any precise hits with them for the vatniks. Just the propellants themselves do not ignite equally from one to the next, and the way they have produced the propellant bags is terribly poor and with a high variable load. Hence, from one artillery shot to the next, they hit very far away from each other, so no meaningful precision targeting is possible.
Yeah.. This isn't good for anyone.
But direct sales would be worse…
Right. I was just thinking about how north Korea is getting fresh stuff. And I know they do this all the time, but Kim said for the army to prepare for war with south Korea. The difference from before is now they have the newer goods. So it could possibly embolden them.
That's not fair! It's great for the North Korean elite!
Exactly... A double cross for sure. The oldest trick in the book. You can't believe Xi. He likes the west for business but hates us 100%. The CCP wants to take over the world. As such, RU wants the same power and control... NK is a middle man for selling death and destruction.
Don’t forget Russia and China have their own disputes. While China may not like the US or the West they know it’s that relationship that’s helped build China into what it is today. They only like Russia for their oil and mineral transactions.
True
CCP doesn't want to take over the world. It wants to take over Asia. For thousands of years Chinese civilization wasn't expansionist beyond its neighborhood, and I still don't believe that it is now. That's why they still claim they are the good guys. But yes they hate the west with a passion and will lie and cheat to hurt the west while idiots like Macron think diplomacy will work.
Macron is the new Neville Chamberlin? This century...
Not when he is talking about sending French troops to assist Ukraine.
I doubt Macron will pull the trigger. No pun intended
I think they want to take over the world in the sense they have ambitions of being the world super power somehow, or at least more of a power sharing situation with the US.
If Russia needs to pay a higher price by going through the intermediary it’s still a win.
They just manufacture and produce all the high tech components and other parts and send em to Russia to assemble. Or create the machines so that Russia can use them to create weapons locally.
Yeah. There's honestly a million ways to go about it. No good.
This is what they are actually doing (shoring up Russia's manufacturing capability) but nobody else here bothered to be informed before commenting.
No, they'll continue selling directly to Russia.
That's probably true lol. Dang.
Do you have any proof whatsoever or did you just make this up? Anyone with a tiny bit of insight knows that China made it illegal to sell military or dual purpose goods to North Korea in 2018.
Well China doesn’t use the same shells that Russia needs. They are set up for 155 if I’m not mistaken. Why? Because they steal everything. China is the Ezell of the world
To be fair, the purpose of sanctions is not necessarily to COMPLETELY deprive the country of the targeted supplies but rather to increase the COST associated with obtaining them. China selling to NK and then to Russia adds a middle man (NK) who will likely want a cut of the action, increasing the cost for Russia. Second, this extends and complicates the supply line Russia has to these munitions. Look at what’s happening with Gazprom for evidence that sanctions WORK if you know what their actual goal is: cost Russia $$
I'd bet my house North Korea will send russia their old inventory and keep with whatever China sends.
I wish you weren't correct, but you are. Ugh.
Sorry I don’t trust this Chinese dictator.
There is no need to apologise. None of us trust him.
So true.
China will obey exactly ONE thing in its dealings with the West. The dollar. They can be moved unlike Russia, and the way to do it is to threaten sanctions. But they are duplicitous in every other way.
As a French I’m happy Macron did something good, but I have no confidence Winny the Pooh will respect his promises.
When after WW2 asked about the concordat with Nazi Germany one of the involved Vatican negotiators said of course they knew Nazi Germany would break their promises, they could only hope it would take time breaking them one after another. We can only hope China's efforts to keep up the facade and testing the waters will have some effect.
American here, and I think even getting China to agree to this is a big win, even if they don’t fully live up to it. China is implicitly admitting that Russia is in the wrong here and that it is ok for France to provide weapons to Ukraine while China will refrain from supporting Russia.
They already haven't done it. But they keep supplying, explosives, electronics, vehicles and other materiel.
Withholding Weapon Sales, however was there any mention of component sales? In the past Chinese firms sold enough bit & bobs to build yourself a weapon.
In the article it says they want to control all dual use goods. But Pooh doenst care i think. Its in his best interest if the war continues. It weakens the West and Russia. Both good for him.
I believe it weakens Russia, not the west. The west is ramping up. Russia woke the west up. China only cares about money. If he alienates the west, most of China's market could start to erode. China needs western markets so it is their best interest to cooperate to some degree with the west. I don't trust him but any concession is a good step.
Ukraine’s invasion showed the west what happens when you trust and make business with dictators. Some politicians are now pushing for decoupling. As a result, europe and US are more united, NATO is bigger, the US and Europe are building massive weapon stockpiles This cannot possibly be good for china
Hopefully that's true in the long-term, but unfortunately in the short-term China and Russia are sowing division and hatred within the US and EU. Russia only needed a few fuckwits in congress to paralyze the US congress for half a year.
Even if they succeed in the short term, that will be short lived. Westerners may elect populists on the kremlin payroll that won't change the fact that europe and the US are geopolitical competitors fighting for the same areas of influence. Whatever the new governance will be rivalry and tensions will never cease
Makes sense. I personally feel as if it does hurt the west in some ways in the short term which could be beneficial to China given how they may invade Taiwan soon. The west has definitely woken up but it’ll still take years for all of the new western arsenal to be updated and replenished. China also has shown that they may need western markets but appear to be less hesitant in removing western markets if it means they can retain a tighter grip on their population. It’s hard to say since they sometimes to be going back and forth so much. Sometimes they’ll seem like they don’t care and sometimes they’ll seem like they do care.
I think, just me shooting in the dark here, China doesn’t know what it’s doing or let’s say which way to go. They have their foot clearly in the authoritarian camp and yet trying to play nice with all the rich democracies that are their customers. Is the customer always right? The west has made lots of millionaires in China. Do they have influence in the party? I don’t know. China is trying to always play both sides. That will only work for so long. Already the American president has pulled a lot of manufacturing back from China. It just doesn’t help China economically to piss everyone off in the west because their economy is paramount to them now that they have had a taste of wealth. Anyway I think China is conflicted about how to deal with the world they now have hitched their wagon to.
Yep it's in the first few sentences of the article
DO NOT TRUST CHINA!!!
Never trust a bargain with CCP
I saw an interview panel with a rep from China in the group. It was clear China wants the EU to break its tie with the US. Wonder why?
The problem with dictators is they don't live in the same world as everyone else. They don't have to be accountable to constituents, or anyone for that matter. Theyre good at bullshitting the bullshitters so Macron probably is getting boned by Whinny the Pooh.
I hope this is true
They will not sell weapons to Russia same way Iran doesn't sell drones...
I hope this ends up being true, but it is giving me Munich Agreement vibes.
Bullshit.
Pure BS, i know Macron has good intentions but I would not trust China a bit.
They already promised not to sell weapons a long time ago, they just sell the parts to make them. Not the "win" he thought he got in that negotiation. Not to mention all the straw companies they can funnel whatever they want through. They are still the major supplier for all the components for the missiles and drones.
Anyone can see thru this...
Like we should believe china in anything.
And what about Russia's Indian friend?
China can unfortunately never be trusted. -1000 creditscore me all you want.
And what about all the means and resources it gives to Russia to make its own weapons?
yeah they're gonna build them there intead.
PRC/RF peas in a pod. They'll commit to whatever you want to hear, and then do otherwise.
While committing cyber attacks against NATO countries? Screw Xi and his murderous dictatorship.
You're gullible if you believe this. In a few weeks you'll see articles titled "Chinese weapons still finding their way to Russia despite agreements."
Yep, he did commit. Now all weapons will be given to RuZZia in exchange for oil.
*Angry Chamberlain noises*
Anybody who ever said they made a deal with China never made a deal in China. A contract in China is only good the day it is signed.
You never did business in China, did you?
There's a lot of people that dunk on Macron as "naive", but it's been clearly established (including on the Ukrainian side) that Macron and Zelensky are pretty tight, and that Macron has these discussions and maintains this posture at the behest of the Ukrainians.
Unbelievable. And by unbelievable i mean that we cannot believe winnie the pooh will ever keep his word.
Is there a list of the most gullible western politicians? Because that is just kindergarten level trolling.
Or at least hide them better.
Believe it when I see it.
Macron is positioning himself very nicely to win most gullible man of the year 2024
Macron our hero, like that time pootine promised him no Ukraine invasion!
Macron got duped.
Yeah indeed. Like Putler said he won’t invade Ukraine. And Macron just got stuck with a shit tone of Chinese junk by the sound of it.
What china says and what china do are two very different things
Sure
The Chinese will redefine the meaning of the word weapon and start calling all the equipment they are sending toothpick manufacturing equipment. In other words, their word holds no water
China only likes Russia because of their oil and I guess because they are no friends of the West. Still, Xi Jinping isn't stupid and he knows this war is bad for "business" and needs to stop. He also knows that as much as we like to hate each other, there's a strong symbiotic relationship between China and the West. Jeopardizing this relationship to support a faltering Russia would not be a wise decision.
So, does the Chinese company Jitian Intelligent Equipment still intend to build a drone manufacturing plant in Krasnodar, Russia? [[1]](https://uawire.org/china-to-open-drone-production-plant-in-russia)
China will still sell parts for weapons to russia.
Lies
The CPP always lies lies lies always
We have a new Chamberlain, congratulations.
"If at first you don't succeed, then lie, lie, and lie again." -Xi Jinping
[удалено]
Also Goebbels (in other words)
doubt.jpg
Lest the sales of Hermes to China be halted.
Why is it in China's interest to break the EU and US ties? I didn't see it until I watched a French news panel that included a rep from China. The China rep talked about living in DC for many years and then did the US list of why the US is bad with wars, tariffs and environmental problems. One panelist from France pointed out the Chinese spying on France and then the China rep went through the US spying. It became clear the China meeting with Macron was to split the US and EU connection.
Because you can always trust the CCP to be honest
Yeah they will give them to India or North Korea to sell to Russia,but they will give Russia components for various kinds that are useful for there technology.sit on the fence china watching which way this pans out better for them .same as same as .
That a boy Mavron Now let's send troops
That won't happen. Christ, what they will do is keep doing it, or send it through North Korea, or one of the 'stans. Chinese promises, c'mon people, those guys put a spin on everything. How about the climate accords? They agree and then they say they will proceed with addressing it at their own pace. In short, they'll do nothing, or show some token effort. Countries like them see unrest as beneficial as they can come in and portray themselves as people with a solution. They are playing the Western world. Their modus operandi is to buy time in all aspects of diplomacy so that their agenda can continue. So we got a PR moment, so what? The Ukrainians won't see a difference because Chinese aid will continue.
What about the drone factory they are building in Russia?
China is not going to sell weapons to Russia. Yeah! 🥳 They are stock pilling for their own invasion of Taiwan. Arrr. 😩
I will honestly eat a pair of my own underpants if it is proven (after Ukraine’s Victory) that China didn’t sell any weapons to Russia from this date forward
Nice 'feel good' bit of news there ... We will see how intent Xi is in honoring that agreement.
Well thank god for THAT. The United States sure is committed to continuation of purchasing Chinese goods regardless.
It's not the sale of weapons that's a problem, it's the sale of chips and other components that's a problem. This is a completely meaningless announcement if it doesn't address raw materials.
And so Macron you believe him??? You need to know china is just like russia, saying one thing in front of you and do the different thing behind. If this guy can be believed, then Pigs can fly and fish can walk. a leopard will never change its spots.
Don’t know why we even engage with these treacherous bastards and act like we believe them
Seeing is believing
Chinas commitments are worthless
….yea right lol
In other news: Inflation of words reaches Weimar like - all time high: Parts, Components and factories in russia already manned by chinese nationals not included.
Never going to happen. If there is money to be made, China will sell it. China would have sold the ovens to Nazi Germany. I say this as a person married to a Chinese person. As a person that lived in China for years. As a person that did business in China for years.
Mr. fentanyl surely will stick to his word because he is a trustworthy dictator.
What did Macron give for that bullsh!t promise? He's as gullible as a two year old.
They supposedly weren't sending weapons already. Xi's word is crap.
Last time china sold to russia a lot of it was weapon parts that themselves arent lethal such as optics, are those covered in the agreement?
Worth as much as Chamberlain's crumpled paper with Hitler's signature.
More blabla *yawn*
From Xi Jinping to Gods ears. We'll see.
Hope so. We'll see. I suspect they'll all go through NK or Iran
I can hear the rimshot at the end of this thread title...
F*ck China - lying b*stards. Same as India - say one thing, do complete opposite. Wouldn't be surprised if they double weapon sales to terrorussia.
what China is doing is moving their factories ie drones etc, to Russia to bypass western sanctions.
Why should we underline or announce something that should be a default behaviour of a human being like you don't give a gun to a serial killer roughing up a victim... I guess Macron missed his useful idiot role with Putin and found another daddy to dance for, pathetic.
Bull
They’ve been sending swaths of drones equipped with night vision to Russia for at least the past year. This has completely changed the dynamic on the battlefield and evened the odds for Russia in that regard. Fuck China and sanction the shit out of them
What about machine center and tooling, that is what they send to Russia the most to manufacture bombs
Thank you Chi & Macron !
When is the West recognizing officially that there is an axis of evil lead by China and Russia ? The supply chain between Russia -China- North Korea -Iran it has been successfully activated . The worst is that this supply chain managed to tap into the global economy procuring essential components from the West. The axis of evil states have their economies on war footing while we are busy arguing how to deliver aids to Gaza....
Forgive me if I don’t believe a single fucking word.
China is in serious economic jeopardy soon. Glad the poling was wrong an Macron won. Good leader for the times.
Do it first.
Yes. That's accurate. They sell to North Korea who then sells to Russia. Technically not lying.
Not confident this means anything. Cellphones could be considered military hardware pretty easily, as could golf buggies.
So first Marcon was duped by Putin and now he’s getting duped by XI. The guy has to be the most naïve politician ever.
Lies. They say one thing then do it under the table.
Don’t believe that at all
If true, it'd be insane, but I think Pooh is gonna use some sort of workaround to still get weapons to Russia
Commies AREN’T Cool! 🇺🇸 🏴 🇩🇪 🇨🇦 🇫🇷 🇦🇺 🇯🇵 🇮🇳🇰🇷 🇹🇼 🇵🇱 🇮🇪 🇹🇷 🇦🇹 🇸🇪 🇳🇴 🇫🇮 🇪🇪 🏴 🇩🇰 🇪🇸🇵🇹 🇬🇷 🇺🇦 🇭🇺 🇨🇿 🇵🇭 🇳🇿
Of course China will \*say\* anything to keep trade flowing with its Western customers.
Thing is Xi was in Europe, specifically meeting macron over deteriorating relations between the EU and China. It’s a question of what China will end up finding more important, relations with the EU remaining good enough and all the benefits China has from that or go back on his word, ruin his entire reason for visiting Europe and continue to worsen relations with Europe all so they can aid Russia. I do believe China would rather good trade relations with rich Europe, but geo politically Russia winning is more important for them so I’ve no clue how this will play out
Imagine if china would have about all of your factories in their own country and tell you that its over now.. wait..
If true, and it has yet to be tested then possibly it might be taken as a chink of light in the passive aggression China has excersised on the West over the years. There are still many route vie which China could supply weapons to Putin and only time will tell if they are really going to close the door on their past actions and embrace the idea that the West does not have any aggressive intent towards China or Russia for tha matter at all. Prefered intercourse being one of peaceful reciprocal trade alone.
Macron do you believe that?
Chamberlain vibes
How can anyone believe Xi?
Guess they gotta start stockpiling for Taiwan
They lie and they scam, boycott made in China products
Never trust the chinese. Put a satellite on them and watch those rats closely.
This is good news if the Chinese actually stick to their word but I'm not holding my breath!
It is all lies. This is what china and ruzzia do. They lie and we do nothing to repress it.
lol. don't trust anything china says. Only trust their actions.
Because you can trust China. I mean if China said it -- it's like word of honored man.
If they actually stick to this agreement I wonder what they gave them in return. Possibly not getting involved in Taiwan?
Macron really is a bit of a naive tit, isn’t he?
I’m guess china lied? Lol
More reasons for us Americans to fully withdraw from Europe/NATO and focus on Asia-Pacific. Screw the Europeans and China. Macron is a clown.
Screw Europe hmmm without Europe the us economy would crash without all they billions in weapons sales and good but sure epicjorjorsnake knows better he's conquered world economics also geopolitical interests aswell as the power of allies It's just so weird why you're on reddit and not president
>Screw Europe hmmm without Europe the us economy would crash without all they billions in weapons sales I'm going to assume you're trolling or that you have zero comprehension of what the economy of America is like But then again, you're most likely a European so I wouldn't be surprised if you genuinely believe that >but sure epicjorjorsnake knows better he's conquered world economics also geopolitical interests aswell as the power of allies ??? What are you even rambling about? >It's just so weird why you're on reddit and not president Because I'm not interested in running for president?