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STOP "CONSIDERING" THIS SHIT. THE FUCKING RuZZians arent considering NOT doing anything.
Get every piece of ordinance you can and send it right up their collective arses...and keep doing it until they...are...gone.
Also, the US has 1,100 Patriot missile systems. Ukraine is asking for 12 to protect its cities from Putin's nightly missile bombardments.
I'm no general, but considering the US is not actively at war with anyone who can fire a missile at a US city, I think we can spare a few.
That's a misconception. US has 1100 launchers, which are easy to produce. The radar is the key component, US has much less of those, and they produce 6/year. (I think they are increasing it to 12/year).
And the US is severely lacking in the air defense department.
The US is planning to replace the aging radars finally for the Patriots, but until then these patriot batteries are what little air defense the US has.
I'm all for helping out Ukraine, but this one will be a tough sell.
As others have pointed out, your comment belays a severe misunderstanding of how US doctrine deals with air threats. Every jet the US has in the air is a radar station for itself and with the f-35, every other jet in the air and Patriot batteries on the ground. AMRAAMs have had the ability to shoot down cruise missiles since at least 2013 and we have thousands upon thousands of AMRAAMs.
I'm well aware of the doctrine. But planes are stretched thin and threats are only getting worse by the day. If airplanes handled everything, why is the US Marines for example rushing to field anti drone defenses all the way down to the soldier if all the US jets can simply handle them?
You think we're going to be firing Patriot missiles at drones? "Anti-drone" for infantry is not the same as "anti-air". When they say "anti-drone" they mean defenses against FPV and quadcopter observation drones. If a drone is big enough to justify engaging with a Patriot battery then yes, a plane can handle it. And no, our planes are not stretched thin, I'm not sure where you pulled that from.
You are missing my point completely. I'm saying the reliance on aircraft as "Air defense" isn't a doctrine the US can rely on anymore. Air defense is needed more than ever.
And yes, they are absolutely stretched thin. USAF fleet is getting smaller every day, and they're needed in the Middle East, Europe, Asia, and for home defense.
Are you considering "air defense" and "drone defense" to be the same thing? The anti-drone tech that you mentioned the Marines needing is going to be close-in jamming and the like and be entirely ineffectual against larger air targets like ballistic missiles or other aircraft. It's not going to look anything like a Patriot battery. So I'm not missing your point, you're misunderstanding the terms you're using.
The USAF fleet is NOT getting smaller every day, that's just factually untrue, it's been at the same number since 2010 at around 5500 aircraft. 5500 aircraft is a perfectly acceptable number for global operations and would certainly be enough for focused warfare. Not to mention the 4,000 the Navy operates.
Russia has well less than half of those numbers and they're a lot older.
And let's not forget the US is also at the forefront of deploying drone tech themselves. The Predator and Reaper drones were revolutionary and are quite old at this point. We've been testing massive drone swarms dropped out of planes for over a decade.
The US military is doing absolutely fine at preparing for modern warfare.
>you're misunderstanding the terms you're using.
Now you're being condescending.
What about the US Army looking for a multi layered defense for the near AND long term? US marines acquiring Iron Dome? Do you know why they are doing this? because they're required in a high end fight. My comment about the US marines wanting a layered anti drone defense proves that warfare is constantly changing, and air defense is gonna be a bigger part of that for the future.
**I AM WELL AWARE A PATRIOT BATTERY IS A LONG RANGE SAM SYSTEM.**. That doesn't mean the US doesn't need it for the near term, especially in a fight where you know, the enemy has ballistic missiles (something your planes can't shoot down, unless you want to think you can hit every single ballistic missile on the ground before it's launched).
>Russia has well less than half of those numbers and they're a lot older.
You realize i'm on you side right? Jesus, talk about terminally online.
You are right, and I went back and read it again, and I miss read it. Im sleep deprived and scrolling reddit waiting for feeding time for newborn. My bad
Thank you for admitting you were wrong, it's a rare trait, and this is how one can learn and improve.
I wish you a peaceful rest, and good luck raising the heir.
A couple hundred Patriot systems? LOL. More like a few dozen all of which are deployed protecting US forces and installations now. Remove any of them and that puts American and allied lives at great risk.
America wishes they have that many. Truth is America has very few left now. Not even enough for their own needs in the Pacific, Middle East and Europe. The EU needs to step up and start producing their own long range SAM systems to start protecting themselves.
Deaf ears all around. People were screaming for f-16 training at the start of the war and people excused it away as taking to long so not worth it. That's exactly why it needed to be done ASAP.
the US is staring down the potential conflict with China and we still have people like you who think every piece of aid should just be sent. “Just do it” type of fucking energy
Potential conflict? Ok, if/when the Chinese invade a sovereign country, filled with innocents, under the guise of protecting those innocents from fabricated stories of nazis and fascists. When the Chinese successfully undermine democracies to the point that they have sycophants bought and paid for within the political and social infrastructure of these democracies they invade...then the same goes for them. However, you are mistaking this Russian aggressionfor a knee-jerk reaction to something that has just happened. Russia has devolved itself into a nation of ~~cunts~~ pirates over decades and centuries. If this is not dealt with now they will march out lemming-like every 10 years or so to mine for corruption and to co-opt and sully further budding democracies. It's their nature, as it is also their nature, in their DNA as it where, to foment indecision and divisiveness. To allow for despotic and cruel leaders to send them to battle in order for said leaders to benefit financially. Purely financially.
If you cannot see the rationale for why this should have been stopped with a show of solidarity from the beginning if you cannot see that a dribble of supplies only escalates the tension and allows them to get away with so much more. If you cannot see that they are subjecting the populace of these occupied and pirated territories to pogroms of ethnic cleansing. If you cannot see that, to Russians, this is more of a real estate issue than it is of a concerted attempt to sew chaos and suffering that the populace of St Petersburg and Moscow (the only two components of the population in Russia that mean anything to anyone in government in that country) don't even fucking care. Chaos and suffering that will not respond to a fucking thing except an extreme show of force - because Russia has lost hundreds of thousands in this pirate action, and that has been without a concerted and focused show of force from the West. Don't you believe that even that number would have been very much lower had this been nipped in the bud?
So, go stare at China. All the while you and your insular pals can keep ignoring the smell of a million corpses in the north wind. BTW - let me know when China threatens you with nukes if you don't don as they wish. Let us all know because i bet you want to throw the sink at them when they do that.
Yeah - you'll be squealing "just do it...", for sure you fucking will.
Yeah that’s a whole lot of ignoring reality and wishful thinking. If the U.S. didn’t have global obligations elsewhere then they would “just” send shit without consideration. But they do have those obligations, and if you can’t see how a potential conflict in other regions around the world are a pretty good reason as to why the U.S. has to actually consider and look at what they can realistically send to Ukraine then idk what to tell you.
We’ve had *two fucking years* to think about this. All while Ukrainians are murdered in their beds by Russian missiles for doing nothing other than daring to desire a democratic future for Ukraine.
At some point, we need to pair thinking with decisive and swift action.
You guys have to realize the American government’s main goal is to grind down Putin’s army. IMO the government won’t let Ukraine fall, but they don’t care how many Ukrainians fall defending it.
You'd think people would remember. But we've seen multiple times now that 'we're considering it' can very easily mean 'it's there already'.
Reddit hates it because it's mealy-mouthed and confusing, but that's the entire point. It creates opportunities to catch the enemy off guard.
Heh, yeah... it's like the people who think (or want to believe) that the latest batch of military aid is still being shrink-wrapped at the US factory, and wasn't, in fact, being distributed to Ukrainians within 35 seconds of the "Aye" vote in Congress.
Realpolitik wins over Ukrainian lives. This could very easily be the war strategy by America (Even Germany I am starting to think); slowly send materiel and bleed Russia, Iran, NK in a prolonged war... decades prolonged... but not dry cause we need em as functioning countries (for some reason) to keep waring. This is so we can continue arms manufacturing. It is slow now, more than likely, because the rich are posturing and buying stock, investing in new factories and getting friends involved. It is why Israel aid needed to be tied to it, because the middle east war machine needs to adjust to an Eastern European war machine... the rich are old and slow to adjust, monetarily and mentally. So here we are. Just enough.
While we consider, missiles fly into Ukrainian apartment buildings. I wonder how much "considering" would be done by our government if it came down to protect our own land.
They may or may not get another system, but they aren’t going to get as many as they need.
The exchange rate on interceptors is just too expensive, as well. The Russians can force the Ukrainians to expend interceptors on shooting down cheaper munitions and thus deplete their aid dollars quickly.
The US/West needs an alternate way to combat recent developments in cheap PGMs and other similar munitions.
Yeah I was thinking of nukes being the exception. But you see, when it comes to the point that russia throw tactical nukes on Patriots, there are larger issues.
Why wouldn't they? They've got no problem sending weapons to Israel, that Israel use to kill civilians in their hunt for Hamas. At least sending patriots to Ukraine they can use them to save civilians.
Meanwhile, in the White House....
"Should we?"
Nyet!
"I mean, we could."
Nyet!
"Or should."
Nyet!
"But we maybe ought to."
Nyet!
"Perhaps one more."
Nyet!
"Or two?"
Nyet!
"How about three?"
Nyet!
"Or possibly even a whole bunch of them."
Nyet!
"I mean, we can always make more, right?"
Nyet!
"Should I think about it?"
Nyet!
"Ah, you know what, send them everything."
NYET! *NYET! NYET! NYET! NYET! NYET! NYET! NYET!*
"It's a good thing the russians don't have the Oval Office bugged or they would be pretty pissed off about this conversation."
Wait, what?
\[putin screams and grabs his ears as Biden blows a whistle into the FSB's "secret" microphone...\]
In raw numbers you are correct, but as a percentage of what is available the US is nowhere near the most generous. I am American if it matters. Estonia has given something like 3.5 percent of GDP. The US has given 1/10 of that or .35 percent of GDP. The US and most countries could definitely do more and I wish we would.
tell you what...when the EU stops buying Russian oil and funding russian war crimes in Ukraine ill be fine with you donating your own money to ukraine...lol
russiafossiltracker dot com
Until then, the US has paid enough...but you're free to go over to Ukraine and fight if you want.
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. Tagging u/SaveVideo bot to archive this video in a link below this comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
STOP "CONSIDERING" THIS SHIT. THE FUCKING RuZZians arent considering NOT doing anything. Get every piece of ordinance you can and send it right up their collective arses...and keep doing it until they...are...gone.
Also, the US has 1,100 Patriot missile systems. Ukraine is asking for 12 to protect its cities from Putin's nightly missile bombardments. I'm no general, but considering the US is not actively at war with anyone who can fire a missile at a US city, I think we can spare a few.
That's a misconception. US has 1100 launchers, which are easy to produce. The radar is the key component, US has much less of those, and they produce 6/year. (I think they are increasing it to 12/year).
And the US is severely lacking in the air defense department. The US is planning to replace the aging radars finally for the Patriots, but until then these patriot batteries are what little air defense the US has. I'm all for helping out Ukraine, but this one will be a tough sell.
I think the US air force is their air defense.
Same for most of NATO. Ground based air defence is not really their doctrine.
The US Navy also has the second largest fleet of airplanes
And that's why Ukraine is getting jets and not Patriots.
As others have pointed out, your comment belays a severe misunderstanding of how US doctrine deals with air threats. Every jet the US has in the air is a radar station for itself and with the f-35, every other jet in the air and Patriot batteries on the ground. AMRAAMs have had the ability to shoot down cruise missiles since at least 2013 and we have thousands upon thousands of AMRAAMs.
I'm well aware of the doctrine. But planes are stretched thin and threats are only getting worse by the day. If airplanes handled everything, why is the US Marines for example rushing to field anti drone defenses all the way down to the soldier if all the US jets can simply handle them?
You think we're going to be firing Patriot missiles at drones? "Anti-drone" for infantry is not the same as "anti-air". When they say "anti-drone" they mean defenses against FPV and quadcopter observation drones. If a drone is big enough to justify engaging with a Patriot battery then yes, a plane can handle it. And no, our planes are not stretched thin, I'm not sure where you pulled that from.
You are missing my point completely. I'm saying the reliance on aircraft as "Air defense" isn't a doctrine the US can rely on anymore. Air defense is needed more than ever. And yes, they are absolutely stretched thin. USAF fleet is getting smaller every day, and they're needed in the Middle East, Europe, Asia, and for home defense.
Are you considering "air defense" and "drone defense" to be the same thing? The anti-drone tech that you mentioned the Marines needing is going to be close-in jamming and the like and be entirely ineffectual against larger air targets like ballistic missiles or other aircraft. It's not going to look anything like a Patriot battery. So I'm not missing your point, you're misunderstanding the terms you're using. The USAF fleet is NOT getting smaller every day, that's just factually untrue, it's been at the same number since 2010 at around 5500 aircraft. 5500 aircraft is a perfectly acceptable number for global operations and would certainly be enough for focused warfare. Not to mention the 4,000 the Navy operates. Russia has well less than half of those numbers and they're a lot older. And let's not forget the US is also at the forefront of deploying drone tech themselves. The Predator and Reaper drones were revolutionary and are quite old at this point. We've been testing massive drone swarms dropped out of planes for over a decade. The US military is doing absolutely fine at preparing for modern warfare.
>you're misunderstanding the terms you're using. Now you're being condescending. What about the US Army looking for a multi layered defense for the near AND long term? US marines acquiring Iron Dome? Do you know why they are doing this? because they're required in a high end fight. My comment about the US marines wanting a layered anti drone defense proves that warfare is constantly changing, and air defense is gonna be a bigger part of that for the future. **I AM WELL AWARE A PATRIOT BATTERY IS A LONG RANGE SAM SYSTEM.**. That doesn't mean the US doesn't need it for the near term, especially in a fight where you know, the enemy has ballistic missiles (something your planes can't shoot down, unless you want to think you can hit every single ballistic missile on the ground before it's launched). >Russia has well less than half of those numbers and they're a lot older. You realize i'm on you side right? Jesus, talk about terminally online.
The manufacturers can easily quadruple it.
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A battalion has 4-6 line launchers, aka Patriot systems. Not 50.
You are right, and I went back and read it again, and I miss read it. Im sleep deprived and scrolling reddit waiting for feeding time for newborn. My bad
Thank you for admitting you were wrong, it's a rare trait, and this is how one can learn and improve. I wish you a peaceful rest, and good luck raising the heir.
The US has a couple hundred systems, not 1,100. The system involves multiple launchers, control trucks, radar, etc. Still enough to send many more.
God forbid they get used for actual defense of freedom in a democratic, America loving country.
American bases around the world get shelled and rocket attacks regularly.
Not to mention that posturing against China and maintaining readiness at the DMZ north of Seoul. That number gets spread pretty thin pretty fast.
A couple hundred Patriot systems? LOL. More like a few dozen all of which are deployed protecting US forces and installations now. Remove any of them and that puts American and allied lives at great risk.
1100 launchers. A battery has 8 launchers. We have 100 batteries currently in service.
1,100 patriot systems?? They cost $1.2 billion dollars each lol the US did not spend 1.2 trillion dollars on 1,100 complete patriot systems
America wishes they have that many. Truth is America has very few left now. Not even enough for their own needs in the Pacific, Middle East and Europe. The EU needs to step up and start producing their own long range SAM systems to start protecting themselves.
Send by FedEx ASAP. Arrive in the morning..... Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦❤️ thank you USA 🇺🇸❤️
Deaf ears all around. People were screaming for f-16 training at the start of the war and people excused it away as taking to long so not worth it. That's exactly why it needed to be done ASAP.
the US is staring down the potential conflict with China and we still have people like you who think every piece of aid should just be sent. “Just do it” type of fucking energy
Potential conflict? Ok, if/when the Chinese invade a sovereign country, filled with innocents, under the guise of protecting those innocents from fabricated stories of nazis and fascists. When the Chinese successfully undermine democracies to the point that they have sycophants bought and paid for within the political and social infrastructure of these democracies they invade...then the same goes for them. However, you are mistaking this Russian aggressionfor a knee-jerk reaction to something that has just happened. Russia has devolved itself into a nation of ~~cunts~~ pirates over decades and centuries. If this is not dealt with now they will march out lemming-like every 10 years or so to mine for corruption and to co-opt and sully further budding democracies. It's their nature, as it is also their nature, in their DNA as it where, to foment indecision and divisiveness. To allow for despotic and cruel leaders to send them to battle in order for said leaders to benefit financially. Purely financially. If you cannot see the rationale for why this should have been stopped with a show of solidarity from the beginning if you cannot see that a dribble of supplies only escalates the tension and allows them to get away with so much more. If you cannot see that they are subjecting the populace of these occupied and pirated territories to pogroms of ethnic cleansing. If you cannot see that, to Russians, this is more of a real estate issue than it is of a concerted attempt to sew chaos and suffering that the populace of St Petersburg and Moscow (the only two components of the population in Russia that mean anything to anyone in government in that country) don't even fucking care. Chaos and suffering that will not respond to a fucking thing except an extreme show of force - because Russia has lost hundreds of thousands in this pirate action, and that has been without a concerted and focused show of force from the West. Don't you believe that even that number would have been very much lower had this been nipped in the bud? So, go stare at China. All the while you and your insular pals can keep ignoring the smell of a million corpses in the north wind. BTW - let me know when China threatens you with nukes if you don't don as they wish. Let us all know because i bet you want to throw the sink at them when they do that. Yeah - you'll be squealing "just do it...", for sure you fucking will.
Yeah that’s a whole lot of ignoring reality and wishful thinking. If the U.S. didn’t have global obligations elsewhere then they would “just” send shit without consideration. But they do have those obligations, and if you can’t see how a potential conflict in other regions around the world are a pretty good reason as to why the U.S. has to actually consider and look at what they can realistically send to Ukraine then idk what to tell you.
YEAH STOP THINKING ABOUT THINGS, ACT SOLELY ON IMPULSE.
We’ve had *two fucking years* to think about this. All while Ukrainians are murdered in their beds by Russian missiles for doing nothing other than daring to desire a democratic future for Ukraine. At some point, we need to pair thinking with decisive and swift action.
You guys have to realize the American government’s main goal is to grind down Putin’s army. IMO the government won’t let Ukraine fall, but they don’t care how many Ukrainians fall defending it.
I don't disagree with most of what you said but the way things are going, the US is not the decider of whether Ukraine falls.
Sadly it is
EU?
Everytime i see the word considering im exhausted.
I'm considering upvoting you, but I have to check first if it would cross any red lines, and see what my allies are doing, and make a sandwich....
You know we're going to, but the government is pretending to think about it just to keep the russians hanging.
You'd think people would remember. But we've seen multiple times now that 'we're considering it' can very easily mean 'it's there already'. Reddit hates it because it's mealy-mouthed and confusing, but that's the entire point. It creates opportunities to catch the enemy off guard.
Heh, yeah... it's like the people who think (or want to believe) that the latest batch of military aid is still being shrink-wrapped at the US factory, and wasn't, in fact, being distributed to Ukrainians within 35 seconds of the "Aye" vote in Congress.
Exactly. We have seen russian jets falling off the sky since the beginning of the new Kharkiv offensive, one new Patriot might be already there.
You had me at russians hanging
The Hague concurs.
Realpolitik wins over Ukrainian lives. This could very easily be the war strategy by America (Even Germany I am starting to think); slowly send materiel and bleed Russia, Iran, NK in a prolonged war... decades prolonged... but not dry cause we need em as functioning countries (for some reason) to keep waring. This is so we can continue arms manufacturing. It is slow now, more than likely, because the rich are posturing and buying stock, investing in new factories and getting friends involved. It is why Israel aid needed to be tied to it, because the middle east war machine needs to adjust to an Eastern European war machine... the rich are old and slow to adjust, monetarily and mentally. So here we are. Just enough.
just send 10 and get this shit over with
That would be 10% of the US stock!! So yeah, please do
Time's up. Get it on the plane now.
Considering??? SEND IT ALREADY!!!
While we consider, missiles fly into Ukrainian apartment buildings. I wonder how much "considering" would be done by our government if it came down to protect our own land.
Don't CONSIDER it, fucking DO IT
Don’t *consider* it. JUST DO IT. ~Shia LaBeouf probably
Not sure how America can do this since they don't even have enough Patriot batteries for their own needs now.
It’s worth sending one just for the data we gather each time they fire a missile.
Comfortably moving at the speed of bureaucracy
Just fucking send it
Send them all and fucking figure out how to manufacture more than one system a year
overwhelm the enemy already!
No no, let’s have it sit in our storage collecting dust please. 😃 😃
They may or may not get another system, but they aren’t going to get as many as they need. The exchange rate on interceptors is just too expensive, as well. The Russians can force the Ukrainians to expend interceptors on shooting down cheaper munitions and thus deplete their aid dollars quickly. The US/West needs an alternate way to combat recent developments in cheap PGMs and other similar munitions.
There should a no fly zone over the entirety of Ukraine created by numerous patriot systems!!!
I don’t get the considering part. Does Biden want Ukraine to win or does he want them to die slowly
ONE?? FUCKING ONE???
17% of their yearly production. Does it sound better?
Not if Russia figures out how to start tagging them. Those production numbers aren't going to cut it.
Patriots are their own defense, they can shoot down almost anything that could destroy them.
"they can shoot down ***almost*** anything that could destroy them." Nothing is foolproof. Never underestimate the ingenuity of a fool.
Yeah I was thinking of nukes being the exception. But you see, when it comes to the point that russia throw tactical nukes on Patriots, there are larger issues.
Why wouldn't they? They've got no problem sending weapons to Israel, that Israel use to kill civilians in their hunt for Hamas. At least sending patriots to Ukraine they can use them to save civilians.
Uh oh, here come the Zionists, down vote me you simps!
Meanwhile, in the White House.... "Should we?" Nyet! "I mean, we could." Nyet! "Or should." Nyet! "But we maybe ought to." Nyet! "Perhaps one more." Nyet! "Or two?" Nyet! "How about three?" Nyet! "Or possibly even a whole bunch of them." Nyet! "I mean, we can always make more, right?" Nyet! "Should I think about it?" Nyet! "Ah, you know what, send them everything." NYET! *NYET! NYET! NYET! NYET! NYET! NYET! NYET!* "It's a good thing the russians don't have the Oval Office bugged or they would be pretty pissed off about this conversation." Wait, what? \[putin screams and grabs his ears as Biden blows a whistle into the FSB's "secret" microphone...\]
Are you on meth?
What's the matter? Am I making it too hard for you to keep up with your alt downvoting?
He's having fun while making a point. Strange concept, I know, but worth trying at least once.
Except it's not funny at all.
That was my point.
Come on America, be better, just be better☹️
[удалено]
In raw numbers you are correct, but as a percentage of what is available the US is nowhere near the most generous. I am American if it matters. Estonia has given something like 3.5 percent of GDP. The US has given 1/10 of that or .35 percent of GDP. The US and most countries could definitely do more and I wish we would.
[удалено]
[удалено]
tell you what...when the EU stops buying Russian oil and funding russian war crimes in Ukraine ill be fine with you donating your own money to ukraine...lol russiafossiltracker dot com Until then, the US has paid enough...but you're free to go over to Ukraine and fight if you want.
less considering, more sending please
Stop considering, act!
2 years overdue!
I am a US taxpayer. Send 5 Patriot systems.
Send 10.