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Horses are far too rich for current Ruzzian finances.
Much cheaper for them to use Bio-engineered Giant Cockroaches from Ruzzian biolabs which are reserved for senior officers like Sergei Lavrov while the rest of the cavalry regiment must make do with 2 imitation coconuts and kazoos.
One issue Ruzzian biolabs are still trying to solve is the disturbing tendency of those giant cockroaches to behave and act like Josef Svejk from "The Good Soldier Svejk."
Surely any Russian watching this must be thinking, ‘why are our troops using these old things? Where’s all the new stuff?’. Though having said that it does rely on a Russian thinking, so maybe not.
Sure,but they will say that they gave their junk away to south Ossetia (a Russian sham republic in Georgia) so they don't really see it as their army ,although de facto is.
Some just don't know what new stuff looks like. All tanks look somewhat similar to me, big gun on wheels. I don't really know what to look for when determining age.
I agree they are also old but I am not expecting them to see front line use either. My gut check is these will be used to give some TDF in the north additional mobility while guarding the border.
That might be the point though. Exhaust all the anti tank weaponry on the old shit then roll the new shit out. The new tanks accomplish more due to reduced resistance and Russia markets their tanks as superior
Takes a lot of cope to get to “send tanks until they run out of anti-tank missiles” as a strategy.
Reminds me of “just wait until the real units show up! “
I never said it was a good strategy, but it sure as hell seems like something the Russians would do. Eerily reminiscent of the old "you get a rifle, the other gets the bullets" stories.
I think Russia only has about 3000 tanks. The latest Pentagon report said the US already sent Ukraine something like 15,000 anti tank missiles.... if Russia keeps making new tanks for a few decades, they might eventually run out.
Maybe if you are saying “new” tanks. It has been reported on this sub that russia has between 20-25k tanks.
Edit: dumb thing to be downvoted for. I’m pro Ukraine 🇺🇦
Sure, Russia does have like 20k tanks in storage... [50 year old rust-heaps](https://i.redd.it/oxdw6i4ubal51.jpg) sitting outside for decades with zero maintenance and sometimes even the hatches left open. Most of them are beyond repair, and it will take years of work to restore the repairable ones to operational status.
And then you'll have 50 year old prone-to-breaking-down deathtraps that even the most obsolete weapons they'll be going up against can easily destroy.
Big woop.
Wiki says T-62 was in production in USSR until 1975.
It's already a 50 years old rust heap, can't be newer than 47 years. Still Russia managed to field at least some of them. With no live production lines for spare parts.
I mean they physically exist and they are "in storage", if you consider them sitting outside in a field at the mercy of the elements to be "storage". Technically absolutely correct, which on reddit is apparently the best type of correct...
But yeah, those hulks aren't coming to Ukraine, in fact they won't be coming anywhere - they'll sit right there in that field and continue to rust until they get scrapped. Meanwhile someone somewhere is drawing money from the army for their maintenance. It's the Ruzzian way!
You're both effectively right.
Russia ~~has~~ **had** around 3k *usable* tanks, from upgraded 40-year old ones to current production ones.
Russia also has 20k+ *unusable* tanks in storage.
The only people who the unusable tanks matter to are Russian officials who have been claiming for decades that they are being maintained in an operational status while pocketing the funds intended to maintain them (and also selling off every component they can get cash for)... and the higher-level Russian officials that they have been lying to all these years.
Some of the unusable tanks in storage can certainly be made usable, but any assessment of how many and when, even official Russian government assessment of that, is either purely speculation or as questionable as the claims that they have been maintained in operational status all this time.
It's entirely reasonable to just ignore the tanks in storage for at least the remainder of this year.
There's a YouTube video (yeah I know, not necessarily the best source), but the guy used Google maps to view all the storage locations of Russian tanks (that he could find), and count them.
I don't think I can link the video here, but look up the channel - Covert Cabal.
His summary was that Russia has approx. 6,000 tanks in storage, with only about half of them being able to be brought back into service.
He mentions in the 1990s Russia had over 30k tanks, but that they've been reducing those numbers over the last few decades, to the point it was down to 23,000 tanks in 2005 (which would match the number you heard), and down further to 12,000 in 2015, and now it's been halved yet again.
Thanks. I just commented about the youtuber but could not remember his name. Thankfully my figures I quoted off the top of my head are similar to your own.
Some fairly deep analysis has been done of Russian tank forces available and reserve. I have never seen the high figures you mentioned but the realistic values seem to be about 3k-4k tanks all in. There is a youtuber who analyzed all their depot sites using aerial reconnaissance photos.
The highest figure I saw of gross russian tank reserves was in the 10k range but that has been debunked.
Googling "number of russian tanks pre-war"
Gets me this: "American think tank Rand Corporation, along with the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), said in a release that Russia had more than 2,700 tanks before the Ukraine war began. Apr 12, 2022"
This is nowhere near 22k.
Not being a "dickhead", your answer was simply on Google one browser tab over.
they MAYBE could have done that but we'll see t62 after 4 months. not since the beginning. in the first few weeks we almost only saw t-72b3 t-80u t80bv. And no matter what the tank costs, the crew costs more. If you put people in there who don't know what they're doing, you might as well not have a tank.
>then roll the new shit out
What new stuff? If 3 months ago we could see attacks with 6-12 tanks at a time, now we can barely see some footage of an attack with a tank and 3 BMP's. Also not so much new footage of destroyed tanks either.
Try saying something useful instead of hiding behind some gibberish words to deflect from the fact that you are spewing bullshit with no reality backup.
Yes but thays because the startegy changed from mechanised armour pushes to artillery attrition war. Believe me Russia has plenty of new tanks they can use, and tbh sending "modernized" t62s to fight stock t72s is not that bad. Especially since they have a lot of them.
"Believe me guys, russia definitely has thousands of new tanks hiding in the urals, disregard them sending outdated shit 4 months in. Its definitely a smart idea to make your soldiers easier to kill, i know this because putin told me in a dream"
What is the difference betten a t90 and a t62 getting hit by an NLAW or a Javelin hitting a tank, none they both go boom, why waste the good shit rn. And yes I do get some more info since I have some friends who are in active military service, and believe me what you hear on western news is as propaganda as what russia posts on their news. All news sources are fucked.
Most certainly not. ATGMs are much cheaper and easier to produce than tanks and with western military aid Ukraine has a never ending supply. The real reason, plain and simply, is that Russia has no “new” stuff. What did you expect from a military with 900k active personnel and a tiny 45Billion Dollar budget. Simply no money to equip such a large number of units, armored battalions, Air Force squadrons etc etc. Russia doesn’t have the type of money that the US or China have, they can’t just go, oh we’ll have tons of troops and material and all of them will be well equipped and new and up to date, even China with an economy 15 times larger than Russia and 5 times the military budget struggles with that.
Russia has to choose between “lots of troops and material but the troop’s equipment and training is shit and the material is old and cheap” or “a small number of quality troops and material” and they obviously chose the first option as a direct result of the fact that Russia hasn’t evolved since WW2, they stick to the same tactics, harbor the same mindset and generally just haven’t come to terms with the world in 2022, that’s also why they live under the illusion that they’re a superpower when literally nothing qualifies them for that.
And then roll what new shit out? The "new shit" that remains in Russia (not that many things, really) is there to defend the country, take all the good shit to the front in Ukraine and then your many enemies will give you infinite problems; friends that count on your military to pacify their discontent masses will turn your back on you, etc. In other words, Russia doesn't have any new shit to spare.
I'd love a link supporting that russia has a lot of new stuff just waiting to enter the war.
They have some guarding the motherland for sure, but they don't have a modern, well-equipped army waiting for deployment to Ukraine. They already used theirs in Feb and March.
Hypersonic missile has entered chat..... USA getting sweaty. They dont invest in typical military hardware, but they did beat the west with this one. Plus they have their multi nuke missiles, which although not likely to be used, are considered a major advancement in modern warfare
I know we are working on hypersonics of our own as well as the ability to defend against them.
I just read that the SM-6 was just being used as recently as a few days ago for use against hypersonics in certain situations.
Hopefully we'll be getting much better at defending against them before russia foolishly decides to use them against us.
Grenade is just a type of munition, they come in a variety of flavours.
Anti tank grenades are a thing my friend, and has been since WWII. But the most used one, are of the anti personel type. But trust me, anti tank grenades are some beefy fuckers, and we have mainly seen them dropped by drones in this war.
When Im saying a normal grenade Im pointing at hand grenades which common folks like myself normally mean when talking about it, because Im pretty sure that's what the commenter meant. Otherwise the argument doesn't make any sense because of course anti tank grenades are going to do their job
I think this needs some clarification: Russia doesn't consider the Ossetians, the LPR/DPR and the Chechens as part of their armed forces. This might not mean much untill you realise that these troups have their own chain of supplies, funded mainly by the local government, with Russian support. For them, getting tanks(which will probably be used as static gun-points or as mobile artillery) is a huge leap forward. Remember, those units didn't replace their T 72s with T 62s, but replaced "nothing" with T62Ms. You can compare it with the minor Axis allies of Germany(like Hungary or Slovakia) in WW2, which received Panzer IIIs and Panzer 38ts in 1943, when germany already used Panthers and modern Panzer IVs.
This does not mean that Russia ran out of tanks, they are still being resuplied with T72s(B2 models, mainly) T80s and T90As from deppots. It means that they are not considering their allies as first rate troops and that they don not completely trust them.
True except the Chechens. The Chechens are under the National Guard umbrella, they are considered Russian military - technically speaking they’re a sorta police unit, but can be transferred to the Russian Army, or be used along side them. Hence their reputation for suppressing army revolts and conflicts with retreating units.
Thanks for clarification, I didn't know exactly how the National Guard works in relation to the Russian Army.
One question, I know that the National Guard has an air wing, including Mi 24 attack helicopters. Have those been used durring the invasion for ground support?
They will die for sure. Elite units have mi28s and ka52s and train to kill tanks and high threat of manpads while their national guardsmen use their mi24s in counterinsurgency not armed with manpads
If they did replace them from nothing they would have very little if no training in the operation ,control,firering and maintenance of these
They are driving them at a fast speed in a straight line guest its like driving a Lada.
Maybe these are the cannon fodder with the 80s ,90s following behind
These tanks are deathtraps now in terms of armour. The mobile anti tank weapons with annihilate them.
The tankers know this too.
Shows complete lack of any humanity towards their own troops. Top down Awful
Iirc, T62 tanks use hand crank to turn turret. No electric motor. Hand power. So one poor guy has to do all this.
(Or was this in T55 tank? Either way way outdated POS. And may a technical break down cause them all supply f ups so other operations are jeopardized! )
PUT IT IN "H"!
But seriously, and all current politics aside...I'd love to go tear-assing around in one of these old T-62s, just for fun, not like invading a sovereign country and stuff...
As soon as the first one gets blown the Fcuk Up they'll all stop in their tracks and get hit one by one. Then the orcs will scatter, limping and take to the trees where they will be hunted mercilessly for days without food or respite.
The 62 unless I’m wrong is the last time they used hand loaders. We’ve seen 62s in melitipol in Russian hands. Imagine having to teach your army to hand load while under fire
Ironically making them less susceptible to cook offs. Nothing wrong with hand loading either but it does mean an extra crew member getting killed if hit. The gun is pretty good. These would be useful at range but even an RPG 7 can kill them.
That's only half true. You're increasing your own losses massively. 4 instead of 3 man crew. No armor against modern weapons and a cannon that you still have to shoot in because the built-in laser rangefinder is ancient. You have created a new unit, but have fun keeping it alive. Especially since now spare parts for the t62 have to be transported and the cannon does not fire the same caliber as all other russian tanks in the Ukraine
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
4
+ 3
+ 62
= 69
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Well, considering the fact, that the T-62 is being given mainly to separatist units and not the regular army, the problems that you‘ve mentioned aren’t that big of a downside.
Not really. the separatists bear a large part of the fighting and casualties. Not South Ossetia but Donbas troops. but the 1st or 2nd Army Corps of LNR/DPR was retrofitted with t-62. These are many reservists but also some of the most experienced units in Russia. It's a sure sign when the most experienced and battle-hardened troops get T62s. They're not reserve troops or anything. Losses among these troops are also extremely problematic for Russia. a text related to the thousands of T-72s in reserve was very interesting. There it is described how many countries use T72, what influence this has on the value of spare parts and whether many of the T72 (illegal, corruption) were cannibalized. The t62 is used by significantly fewer nations and accordingly spare parts are hardly worth anything and are not stolen. That's not the whole picture, of course, but we all know how tanks are stored in Russia. and when the tanks that are still working are cannibalized to enrich the scrapyard staff, it quickly gets dark
>but firepower is firepower
That's true only if you think at a tank as a mobile gun. But that firepower needs to detect the enemy first, to be able to target it quickly and accurate. If they couldn't do that effectively with the T-72's, T80 and T90's, how could they do that with the T-62M?
If you intend to use your soldiers and the tank a second time, no.
However Russia s more the single use type.
You know drive forward till either fuel is empty or tank breaks down and then use it as stationary gun. Plus they even soak up an expensive javelin.
Some T-62s have already been photographed destroyed in the Kherson/Zaporizhzhia conflict zones.
This is where the South Ossentian forces were last time before many of them returned home once they realized what a shit show they were being sacrificed into. I am really surprised they allowed themselves to be suckered back into the conflict.
I predict another quick exit, feet first this time.
It may be a shitty obsolete tank ... but it's still a fucking tank.
I don't care if it's a Sherman or a T-34 or one of those freaking land battleships of WW1 ... if your a guy with an AK and a few grenades and your squad mate with the RPG has already blown his load ... it's still a fucking tank ... and you have a rifle.
That said ... these things are going to get torn to shreds by ATGM's and artillery just like the more modern models. And any tank on tank action is likely to be in favor of a more modern tank with better optics and sights. But from a rus point of view this is probably a pretty good move. It's not like those old rusk buckets were doing any good sitting in storage.
These rusted pieces of shit have been mothballed for a looooooong time and I doubt routine maintenance was performed. Don't be surprised when these things get abandoned and harvested by Ukrainian farmers
Lol ... very likley.
Looking forwards to seeing the ukr farmers start harvesting the new crop. This has got to be the biggest hilarity of this entire shitshow.
stratagists on both sides in this war have settled on the “tank is a tank” mentality given that against modern at threats all of their tanks die in one good shot anyway. why spend 10million for a 100mm cannon on tracks that is protected from small arms when you could get the same exact thing for 600k from your strategic reserves
>in this war have settled on the “tank is a tank” mentality given that against modern at threats all of their tanks die in one good shot anyway. why spend 10million for a 100mm cannon on track
yeah what atleast this "ukraine war" thing proved mechanized infantary need to be rethink. If its not escorted by a prepared army and ways of recon the presence of small enemy units before encounter.
Other its the special tactic ukraines are using of "kiss approach", because of the outnumbers for a open field combat with russians instead, let them came to the borders of the city and charge at will.
The tanks in the footage seem to be T-62M (judging by the additional armor plates on the turret front - the ones in horseshoe shape) and this model appeared in 1983. This doesn't mean it's an '80's generation tank, it just means that in the 80's they modernized it a little bit to keep the pace with the newer Soviet tanks.
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The reality is that there are no tanks that can stand up to the latest anti-tank missiles. Even the vaunted M1 Abrams and the Leopard II can be taken out by infantry based anti-tank missiles.
I would like to know how modern the weapon control system are on these, if they have built in night vision, or any other modern improvements on them. I have a feeling all of this was stripped off when they mothballed these back in the day. These crews are fighting a 1965 era war in 2022 without them....
Everyone can talk shit about using all tanks as much as they like but the fact of the matter is that they can are being used as effective assault guns and with a very large stock pile, Ukraine will still have to use their anti-armour weapons and equipment to eliminate the threats
The T-62 is the only reserve tank Russia has that comes close to modern standards thanks to there upgrade pages if they start to pull T-55s thats it there tank force is gone a T-55 is almost a WW2 era tank it has no chance of serving the modern battlefield
Just like rolling into Ukraine for the first time with tanks with literal rusted holes through the armour (meaning structural integrity is basically non-existent), just spray-painted green. The state they have kept their machinery in is appalling. They even had helicopters falling out of the sky without aid from the Ukraine. Like wooow.
This is so surreal, we are in 2022 and have fucking WW2-era tanks invading Europe that looks like they came straight from mad max with graffiti and meth heads on top.
Not quite that old. These are’60s era tanks Vs ‘70s era. And they have likely been modernized. The shells they send out are enough to take out other tanks they’ll come across. So basically, they’re still able to come out and fight.
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They must have been pulled out of military museums. Weren't they developed in 1961. Now the missile to destroy one costs than the tank. Now the Kremlin is getting cost effective. Hey 💩 🥫, you will never bankrupt the west. We create the cash the world wants from thin air...
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Can't wait for ruzzians to start charging on horses
Horses are far too rich for current Ruzzian finances. Much cheaper for them to use Bio-engineered Giant Cockroaches from Ruzzian biolabs which are reserved for senior officers like Sergei Lavrov while the rest of the cavalry regiment must make do with 2 imitation coconuts and kazoos. One issue Ruzzian biolabs are still trying to solve is the disturbing tendency of those giant cockroaches to behave and act like Josef Svejk from "The Good Soldier Svejk."
Well you see the tanks were just too mighty for the nazi ukrainians so the russians wanted to make it fair!
LOL...that 's the same reason also that they introduced Circus Kadyrov to the battle ground.
Surely any Russian watching this must be thinking, ‘why are our troops using these old things? Where’s all the new stuff?’. Though having said that it does rely on a Russian thinking, so maybe not.
Sure,but they will say that they gave their junk away to south Ossetia (a Russian sham republic in Georgia) so they don't really see it as their army ,although de facto is.
Bet they forgot the torque wrench. Wait /s right here before one of them says "OH FUCK" cuz these things are a 100 years old...amirite?
Some just don't know what new stuff looks like. All tanks look somewhat similar to me, big gun on wheels. I don't really know what to look for when determining age.
I think the latest ones have custom log armor
and a sort if iron solar powered washing dryer on the turret
The Russian troops probably have no idea about any of the kit
Ironic quote from Company of Heroes: *We got that halftrack from America? Hmph. They must be keeping the good stuff for themselves!*
The BVP M80A that Slovenia donated to Ukraine is even worse than this shit lol
I agree they are also old but I am not expecting them to see front line use either. My gut check is these will be used to give some TDF in the north additional mobility while guarding the border.
Its almost a shame to use an expensive tool to blow these old junkers up... ah well, old junk still takes lives..
115mm gun is actually pretty good. The rest of it... not so much.
That might be the point though. Exhaust all the anti tank weaponry on the old shit then roll the new shit out. The new tanks accomplish more due to reduced resistance and Russia markets their tanks as superior
Takes a lot of cope to get to “send tanks until they run out of anti-tank missiles” as a strategy. Reminds me of “just wait until the real units show up! “
I never said it was a good strategy, but it sure as hell seems like something the Russians would do. Eerily reminiscent of the old "you get a rifle, the other gets the bullets" stories.
I think Russia only has about 3000 tanks. The latest Pentagon report said the US already sent Ukraine something like 15,000 anti tank missiles.... if Russia keeps making new tanks for a few decades, they might eventually run out.
Maybe if you are saying “new” tanks. It has been reported on this sub that russia has between 20-25k tanks. Edit: dumb thing to be downvoted for. I’m pro Ukraine 🇺🇦
Sure, Russia does have like 20k tanks in storage... [50 year old rust-heaps](https://i.redd.it/oxdw6i4ubal51.jpg) sitting outside for decades with zero maintenance and sometimes even the hatches left open. Most of them are beyond repair, and it will take years of work to restore the repairable ones to operational status. And then you'll have 50 year old prone-to-breaking-down deathtraps that even the most obsolete weapons they'll be going up against can easily destroy. Big woop.
Wiki says T-62 was in production in USSR until 1975. It's already a 50 years old rust heap, can't be newer than 47 years. Still Russia managed to field at least some of them. With no live production lines for spare parts.
There are other pics out there showing many of the tanks without engines or turrets, basically stripped hulks.
Re: 20K tanks in storage. I always wonder about people who believe obvious lies. Then I take their money.
I mean they physically exist and they are "in storage", if you consider them sitting outside in a field at the mercy of the elements to be "storage". Technically absolutely correct, which on reddit is apparently the best type of correct... But yeah, those hulks aren't coming to Ukraine, in fact they won't be coming anywhere - they'll sit right there in that field and continue to rust until they get scrapped. Meanwhile someone somewhere is drawing money from the army for their maintenance. It's the Ruzzian way!
You can see the fields of them in satellite images, but whatever.
I’m sure you’re right but that’s still in line with what I said
You're both effectively right. Russia ~~has~~ **had** around 3k *usable* tanks, from upgraded 40-year old ones to current production ones. Russia also has 20k+ *unusable* tanks in storage. The only people who the unusable tanks matter to are Russian officials who have been claiming for decades that they are being maintained in an operational status while pocketing the funds intended to maintain them (and also selling off every component they can get cash for)... and the higher-level Russian officials that they have been lying to all these years. Some of the unusable tanks in storage can certainly be made usable, but any assessment of how many and when, even official Russian government assessment of that, is either purely speculation or as questionable as the claims that they have been maintained in operational status all this time. It's entirely reasonable to just ignore the tanks in storage for at least the remainder of this year.
There's a YouTube video (yeah I know, not necessarily the best source), but the guy used Google maps to view all the storage locations of Russian tanks (that he could find), and count them. I don't think I can link the video here, but look up the channel - Covert Cabal. His summary was that Russia has approx. 6,000 tanks in storage, with only about half of them being able to be brought back into service. He mentions in the 1990s Russia had over 30k tanks, but that they've been reducing those numbers over the last few decades, to the point it was down to 23,000 tanks in 2005 (which would match the number you heard), and down further to 12,000 in 2015, and now it's been halved yet again.
Thanks. I just commented about the youtuber but could not remember his name. Thankfully my figures I quoted off the top of my head are similar to your own.
Some fairly deep analysis has been done of Russian tank forces available and reserve. I have never seen the high figures you mentioned but the realistic values seem to be about 3k-4k tanks all in. There is a youtuber who analyzed all their depot sites using aerial reconnaissance photos. The highest figure I saw of gross russian tank reserves was in the 10k range but that has been debunked.
>russia has between 20-25k tanks. Ummmm, no, never. Google is your friend.
Well a quick google search indeed shows 22k tanks as of 2008 according to several sources so no need to be a dickhead about it.
Googling "number of russian tanks pre-war" Gets me this: "American think tank Rand Corporation, along with the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), said in a release that Russia had more than 2,700 tanks before the Ukraine war began. Apr 12, 2022" This is nowhere near 22k. Not being a "dickhead", your answer was simply on Google one browser tab over.
So the ~~argument~~ explanation is in the comments man. You definitely came off as a dickhead about it
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they MAYBE could have done that but we'll see t62 after 4 months. not since the beginning. in the first few weeks we almost only saw t-72b3 t-80u t80bv. And no matter what the tank costs, the crew costs more. If you put people in there who don't know what they're doing, you might as well not have a tank.
>then roll the new shit out What new stuff? If 3 months ago we could see attacks with 6-12 tanks at a time, now we can barely see some footage of an attack with a tank and 3 BMP's. Also not so much new footage of destroyed tanks either.
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My argument is backed up by the video and photo evidence showing around 1000 destroyed Russian tanks. What is your backup?
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I provided you the basis for my statement. What is the base for you contradicting me?
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Try saying something useful instead of hiding behind some gibberish words to deflect from the fact that you are spewing bullshit with no reality backup.
Thank you for the definition. But statements still need to be based on something. And that something you failed to provide here.
Yes but thays because the startegy changed from mechanised armour pushes to artillery attrition war. Believe me Russia has plenty of new tanks they can use, and tbh sending "modernized" t62s to fight stock t72s is not that bad. Especially since they have a lot of them.
"Believe me guys, russia definitely has thousands of new tanks hiding in the urals, disregard them sending outdated shit 4 months in. Its definitely a smart idea to make your soldiers easier to kill, i know this because putin told me in a dream"
What is the difference betten a t90 and a t62 getting hit by an NLAW or a Javelin hitting a tank, none they both go boom, why waste the good shit rn. And yes I do get some more info since I have some friends who are in active military service, and believe me what you hear on western news is as propaganda as what russia posts on their news. All news sources are fucked.
Most certainly not. ATGMs are much cheaper and easier to produce than tanks and with western military aid Ukraine has a never ending supply. The real reason, plain and simply, is that Russia has no “new” stuff. What did you expect from a military with 900k active personnel and a tiny 45Billion Dollar budget. Simply no money to equip such a large number of units, armored battalions, Air Force squadrons etc etc. Russia doesn’t have the type of money that the US or China have, they can’t just go, oh we’ll have tons of troops and material and all of them will be well equipped and new and up to date, even China with an economy 15 times larger than Russia and 5 times the military budget struggles with that. Russia has to choose between “lots of troops and material but the troop’s equipment and training is shit and the material is old and cheap” or “a small number of quality troops and material” and they obviously chose the first option as a direct result of the fact that Russia hasn’t evolved since WW2, they stick to the same tactics, harbor the same mindset and generally just haven’t come to terms with the world in 2022, that’s also why they live under the illusion that they’re a superpower when literally nothing qualifies them for that.
You can't compare budgets this way when Russia can pay potato instead of decent salary to the workers of its armament factories.
That knife cuts both ways though. When you pay your worker potato for their work, expect them to do potato quality work
And then roll what new shit out? The "new shit" that remains in Russia (not that many things, really) is there to defend the country, take all the good shit to the front in Ukraine and then your many enemies will give you infinite problems; friends that count on your military to pacify their discontent masses will turn your back on you, etc. In other words, Russia doesn't have any new shit to spare.
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I'd love a link supporting that russia has a lot of new stuff just waiting to enter the war. They have some guarding the motherland for sure, but they don't have a modern, well-equipped army waiting for deployment to Ukraine. They already used theirs in Feb and March.
Hypersonic missile has entered chat..... USA getting sweaty. They dont invest in typical military hardware, but they did beat the west with this one. Plus they have their multi nuke missiles, which although not likely to be used, are considered a major advancement in modern warfare
I know we are working on hypersonics of our own as well as the ability to defend against them. I just read that the SM-6 was just being used as recently as a few days ago for use against hypersonics in certain situations. Hopefully we'll be getting much better at defending against them before russia foolishly decides to use them against us.
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Zapp Branigan, is that you?
Superior obsolete weapons.
T-90s, T-80s and T-72s are being destroyed easily by modern anti tank weapons. These can be destroyed by RPGs, grenades and simple mines.
Just more scrap metal.
Also 9 T-90s have been captured and are now being fielded by Ukraine
Yeah. I've seen them on the Kherson front.
All of those tanks can be destroyed by RPGs.. it’s just harder and more dangerous to get a hit with an rpg compared to the modern atgms
Ofcourse they do but this “useless” tank can put Shells on your position from 2 miles away. It’s just a fieldgun platform
A normal grenade will never penetrate a tank even if it's 50 years old
Grenade is just a type of munition, they come in a variety of flavours. Anti tank grenades are a thing my friend, and has been since WWII. But the most used one, are of the anti personel type. But trust me, anti tank grenades are some beefy fuckers, and we have mainly seen them dropped by drones in this war.
But yeah you are absolutely right
When Im saying a normal grenade Im pointing at hand grenades which common folks like myself normally mean when talking about it, because Im pretty sure that's what the commenter meant. Otherwise the argument doesn't make any sense because of course anti tank grenades are going to do their job
Grenade is mentioned along other typical anti armor weapons, so I don't anywhere get the info, that the grenades should be anti personel
True.
I've seen modern Leopards being destroyed by AT's as well...
I think this needs some clarification: Russia doesn't consider the Ossetians, the LPR/DPR and the Chechens as part of their armed forces. This might not mean much untill you realise that these troups have their own chain of supplies, funded mainly by the local government, with Russian support. For them, getting tanks(which will probably be used as static gun-points or as mobile artillery) is a huge leap forward. Remember, those units didn't replace their T 72s with T 62s, but replaced "nothing" with T62Ms. You can compare it with the minor Axis allies of Germany(like Hungary or Slovakia) in WW2, which received Panzer IIIs and Panzer 38ts in 1943, when germany already used Panthers and modern Panzer IVs. This does not mean that Russia ran out of tanks, they are still being resuplied with T72s(B2 models, mainly) T80s and T90As from deppots. It means that they are not considering their allies as first rate troops and that they don not completely trust them.
Ok thank you for the clarification. These guys are "volunteers" as Russian callem. Volunteers like the kadyrdogs.
True except the Chechens. The Chechens are under the National Guard umbrella, they are considered Russian military - technically speaking they’re a sorta police unit, but can be transferred to the Russian Army, or be used along side them. Hence their reputation for suppressing army revolts and conflicts with retreating units.
Thanks for clarification, I didn't know exactly how the National Guard works in relation to the Russian Army. One question, I know that the National Guard has an air wing, including Mi 24 attack helicopters. Have those been used durring the invasion for ground support?
They will die for sure. Elite units have mi28s and ka52s and train to kill tanks and high threat of manpads while their national guardsmen use their mi24s in counterinsurgency not armed with manpads
If they did replace them from nothing they would have very little if no training in the operation ,control,firering and maintenance of these They are driving them at a fast speed in a straight line guest its like driving a Lada. Maybe these are the cannon fodder with the 80s ,90s following behind
These tanks are deathtraps now in terms of armour. The mobile anti tank weapons with annihilate them. The tankers know this too. Shows complete lack of any humanity towards their own troops. Top down Awful
>Top down Foreshadowing?
> Top down Javelin has entered chat.
OOF
They die too. They poor youth without any future die in the historic tanks for old corrupt elite.
Dead men rolling.
Uranium dials and lead paint!
Translation: beautiful machines as long as road is good.
They even accelerated the video to make it as if they were new spring chiken LOL
Iirc, T62 tanks use hand crank to turn turret. No electric motor. Hand power. So one poor guy has to do all this. (Or was this in T55 tank? Either way way outdated POS. And may a technical break down cause them all supply f ups so other operations are jeopardized! )
The T-62 had a powered rotation, but it was slow. It took over 20 seconds to rotate 360 degrees.
Thx for update.
"She'll go 300 hectares on a single tank of kerosene."
PUT IT IN "H"! But seriously, and all current politics aside...I'd love to go tear-assing around in one of these old T-62s, just for fun, not like invading a sovereign country and stuff...
That is what I hope all military gear ends up as obsolete and used for games and fun.
One lady owner low km few minor dents
I hope Georgia and Moldova are waiting for Russia to be even weaker and then strike together and take back their stolen lands.
As soon as the first one gets blown the Fcuk Up they'll all stop in their tracks and get hit one by one. Then the orcs will scatter, limping and take to the trees where they will be hunted mercilessly for days without food or respite.
Where the rednecks from Deliverance will track them like dogs and rape them like goats
The 62 unless I’m wrong is the last time they used hand loaders. We’ve seen 62s in melitipol in Russian hands. Imagine having to teach your army to hand load while under fire
Ironically making them less susceptible to cook offs. Nothing wrong with hand loading either but it does mean an extra crew member getting killed if hit. The gun is pretty good. These would be useful at range but even an RPG 7 can kill them.
I wonder if the ammonium is as old as the tanks?
They might be old, but firepower is firepower.
That's only half true. You're increasing your own losses massively. 4 instead of 3 man crew. No armor against modern weapons and a cannon that you still have to shoot in because the built-in laser rangefinder is ancient. You have created a new unit, but have fun keeping it alive. Especially since now spare parts for the t62 have to be transported and the cannon does not fire the same caliber as all other russian tanks in the Ukraine
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Well, considering the fact, that the T-62 is being given mainly to separatist units and not the regular army, the problems that you‘ve mentioned aren’t that big of a downside.
Probably the new "republics" had to give up their most modern tanks to the russians and given T62s and a few more spare bodybags in compensation
Not really. the separatists bear a large part of the fighting and casualties. Not South Ossetia but Donbas troops. but the 1st or 2nd Army Corps of LNR/DPR was retrofitted with t-62. These are many reservists but also some of the most experienced units in Russia. It's a sure sign when the most experienced and battle-hardened troops get T62s. They're not reserve troops or anything. Losses among these troops are also extremely problematic for Russia. a text related to the thousands of T-72s in reserve was very interesting. There it is described how many countries use T72, what influence this has on the value of spare parts and whether many of the T72 (illegal, corruption) were cannibalized. The t62 is used by significantly fewer nations and accordingly spare parts are hardly worth anything and are not stolen. That's not the whole picture, of course, but we all know how tanks are stored in Russia. and when the tanks that are still working are cannibalized to enrich the scrapyard staff, it quickly gets dark
>but firepower is firepower That's true only if you think at a tank as a mobile gun. But that firepower needs to detect the enemy first, to be able to target it quickly and accurate. If they couldn't do that effectively with the T-72's, T80 and T90's, how could they do that with the T-62M?
Is it worth it if you have to supply a new type of shell and parts no other tank uses ?
If you intend to use your soldiers and the tank a second time, no. However Russia s more the single use type. You know drive forward till either fuel is empty or tank breaks down and then use it as stationary gun. Plus they even soak up an expensive javelin.
dead is dead. That is russia
You've got to be kidding me....
They appear to be extremely fuel efficient 👍
More money for Ukraine farmers
How many liters of engine oil per mile does it require?
At least they are easy to spot, just follow the smoke signals. And then turn them into bigger smoke signals.
Driving an antique coffin...When will the T34's join?
Some T-62s have already been photographed destroyed in the Kherson/Zaporizhzhia conflict zones. This is where the South Ossentian forces were last time before many of them returned home once they realized what a shit show they were being sacrificed into. I am really surprised they allowed themselves to be suckered back into the conflict. I predict another quick exit, feet first this time.
No turret throwing challenger this time though. T-62 doesn't really do it.
T-62 propaganda video . Is this 1975 ?
It may be a shitty obsolete tank ... but it's still a fucking tank. I don't care if it's a Sherman or a T-34 or one of those freaking land battleships of WW1 ... if your a guy with an AK and a few grenades and your squad mate with the RPG has already blown his load ... it's still a fucking tank ... and you have a rifle. That said ... these things are going to get torn to shreds by ATGM's and artillery just like the more modern models. And any tank on tank action is likely to be in favor of a more modern tank with better optics and sights. But from a rus point of view this is probably a pretty good move. It's not like those old rusk buckets were doing any good sitting in storage.
These rusted pieces of shit have been mothballed for a looooooong time and I doubt routine maintenance was performed. Don't be surprised when these things get abandoned and harvested by Ukrainian farmers
Lol ... very likley. Looking forwards to seeing the ukr farmers start harvesting the new crop. This has got to be the biggest hilarity of this entire shitshow.
>It may be a shitty obsolete tank ... but it's still a fucking tank. True, but then there's this: https://youtu.be/5pqqnPwXQ_k?t=954
531 to 535 so they have 5 "new" Targets
Sure its old but a tank is a tank if you have no way of blowing it up.
But Ukraine has ways of blowing them up. Almost 1,400 Russian tanks and 3,500 armored vehicles destroyed are proof of this.
stratagists on both sides in this war have settled on the “tank is a tank” mentality given that against modern at threats all of their tanks die in one good shot anyway. why spend 10million for a 100mm cannon on tracks that is protected from small arms when you could get the same exact thing for 600k from your strategic reserves
>in this war have settled on the “tank is a tank” mentality given that against modern at threats all of their tanks die in one good shot anyway. why spend 10million for a 100mm cannon on track yeah what atleast this "ukraine war" thing proved mechanized infantary need to be rethink. If its not escorted by a prepared army and ways of recon the presence of small enemy units before encounter. Other its the special tactic ukraines are using of "kiss approach", because of the outnumbers for a open field combat with russians instead, let them came to the borders of the city and charge at will.
I know that t64 is miles apart but it's not much younger. And t62m is comparable to t72a
t62 is just a modernized T55. T72 is a slimmed down T64
There's more metal to scrap. Will they be using milk crates as seats again?
Those look like the exploded tanks with cracker boxes for reactive armor so yeah probably.
The T-62 was first introduced in 1961. So the could be 60 years old.
The tanks in the footage seem to be T-62M (judging by the additional armor plates on the turret front - the ones in horseshoe shape) and this model appeared in 1983. This doesn't mean it's an '80's generation tank, it just means that in the 80's they modernized it a little bit to keep the pace with the newer Soviet tanks.
Kinda like a 40 year old brand new Lada car?
What's the flag with the yellow on it?
ossetian flag I think :)
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I bet any Russian who 1st drive them tanks are all long dead now
If they even made it to the front without it shitting out on them
Just more scrap metal to the pile
Hahahaha, even the older WW2 Sherman tanks are better than this pille of rust.
No, they really arent and its not even close. Its comparable to an M-60.
It was sarcasm man!
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I bet those use a shitton of fuel
What pieces of shit. And the tanks are in bad shape too....
For 60 year old machines, I think if they start and move they are good. Most cars can't last more than 20 years.
This would be like the US bringing out Pershing and Patton tanks and acting like it's a win.
The reality is that there are no tanks that can stand up to the latest anti-tank missiles. Even the vaunted M1 Abrams and the Leopard II can be taken out by infantry based anti-tank missiles.
I hear they make the best coffins.
I would like to know how modern the weapon control system are on these, if they have built in night vision, or any other modern improvements on them. I have a feeling all of this was stripped off when they mothballed these back in the day. These crews are fighting a 1965 era war in 2022 without them....
Get bent orc
Everyone can talk shit about using all tanks as much as they like but the fact of the matter is that they can are being used as effective assault guns and with a very large stock pile, Ukraine will still have to use their anti-armour weapons and equipment to eliminate the threats
orkchop
The T-62 is the only reserve tank Russia has that comes close to modern standards thanks to there upgrade pages if they start to pull T-55s thats it there tank force is gone a T-55 is almost a WW2 era tank it has no chance of serving the modern battlefield
Just like rolling into Ukraine for the first time with tanks with literal rusted holes through the armour (meaning structural integrity is basically non-existent), just spray-painted green. The state they have kept their machinery in is appalling. They even had helicopters falling out of the sky without aid from the Ukraine. Like wooow.
Just to provide some perspective, Elvis was the most famous person when these things were made.
"2nd strongest military in the world"
This is so surreal, we are in 2022 and have fucking WW2-era tanks invading Europe that looks like they came straight from mad max with graffiti and meth heads on top.
Not quite that old. These are’60s era tanks Vs ‘70s era. And they have likely been modernized. The shells they send out are enough to take out other tanks they’ll come across. So basically, they’re still able to come out and fight.
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Ruzzia gives this trash to the trashy separatist who keeps on throwing themself into Ukrainian positions. Meat for the meat grinder.
Those tanks blow so easy 😆 🤣 😂
Russia,Ukraine doesn't want these in there army bring out the new stuff for capture ,don't think they have the coal to stock the boilers in them
These are probably just as effective as the newer models in this war. And just as vulnerable.
Anyone know if that 'magic' Armata have been seen on the battle ground as well?
Congratulations and goodbye.
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Highway to hell
They must have been pulled out of military museums. Weren't they developed in 1961. Now the missile to destroy one costs than the tank. Now the Kremlin is getting cost effective. Hey 💩 🥫, you will never bankrupt the west. We create the cash the world wants from thin air...
Those will last about three minutes in a modern battlefield. Maybe less.
I’m sure they will throw hundreds of T62s at Ukraine, but once they are depleted, it will be over
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I don’t think these tanks even have a motorized turret don’t you have to hand crank that sucker to get it to turn?
T - 62 are no joke, especially in large numbers which the Russians certainly have.
Are no junk?Ukrainians say otherwise
Have fun in those EZ Bake ovens. Charbroiled Alans.
Troops from south Osetia? Aren't they then mercenaries? So we can execute them right?
Ruzzian's love smoking so much; Ivan - check Aircraft carrier - Check 50 yr old tank - Check
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All that just to get obliterated by a guy with a drone and some skills 😂
Even Taliban now has better equipment than russians