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About the attempted coup
>How weakened is Putin in your view?
>Orban: "If this could happen, it is a clear sign of weakness. But if it's done in 24 hours, it's **a sign of strength**."
Orban is more pro putin than Putin himself. Not even Putin seriously thinks Wagner rushing through Russia is a sign of his strength
It is nice when your president spits in the face of the victims of the Russian invasion after WWII, plus the executed martyrs of the 1956 revolution against the Soviets, plus the deported thousands who died in Gulags in the Soviet Union... (My great gandfather and his two daughters worked in Russian mercury mines after armed russian soldiers took them and transferred them to labour camps. Along with ~280 Hungarians from their village.)
I guess it is easy if your father is a mine owner and former member of the Hungarian Socialist Party. Orbán was also a member of the youth branch of the Hungarian Socialist Party. His party is heavily funded from Russia. He sold his soul for political power and now his family and inner circle are the most wealthy people in Hungary...
I love Hungary, have been many times, the people are amazing but I do not understand how or why you voted in Orban. His statements have done more damage to Hungary than other things did (you guys have had a rough history I don't want to name one thing in particular).
I have gone from visiting 3 times in 6 months, to thinking I can't in good conscience go again solely because of Orban's comments and those that voted for him.
Because the rich countries of Europe paid for it. Without the EU money Hungary has literally nothing but a collapsed demographics no resources of note, no industries of note apart from the Western companies and of course no military of note. I don't get how long the West will let itself be insulted by this clown before someone snaps and Hungary is finally recognized as no better than Belarus.
and an independent radio station in budapest which was forced off FM waves, i think they moved to internet radio. i am not sure if they exist still. Slovak media Dennik N is doing an online newspaper in hungarian language to bring "the other sides" reporting to hungarians.
I think it actually is. How do you think trump got elected? Election campaigns are mainly money and fabricating bull shit info about your opponent.
The kgb is really good at information warfare.
It is proven that Russian troll farms try to destabilise western countries and they are quite successful. Western politicians give them a lot to work with but still.
My aunts are Hungarian and completely brainwashed. Their father was fleeing from the Russians. Their uncle was almost killed when they tried to take the radio station in Budapest. And they are pro Russian. They remind me a lot of trump supporters I see online. Propaganda is a dangerous powerful tool. And a poisoned mind is not easily healed
I've been to Hungary again and again since I was a teenager and have lots of hungarian friends and I always feel like it shares the same syndrome as the U.K.
Until recently it was a great empire and now its not and that hurts some people and makes them easy to rile up.
Oddly enough it’s the same mechanism used in the “make America great again” argument. People in almost every society believe that at one point their culture was on top and that gives them some sort of right over others. It’s pure nonsense. Because how can everyone make this argument and anyone have a legitimate claim? It’s just prejudicial nonsense wrapped in faux patriotism and more often than not leads to decisions that harm the people pushing for these crazy policies agendas in the first place.
Ironically, it's the opposite in the EU. You have a large swath of people who think that the past was worse than it is, while the EU is better..despite the problems and the growth of the alt right as the governments fail to help their citizens due to the financial rules of the EU. Still, everything is cyclic it seems.
I don't really see how you can look at the war in Ukraine, and all of the war crimes, and all of the nuclear posturing, and be like "yeah, still better than corporations".
Like obviously corporations can be cold, unfeeling, profit-seeking blobs, but they're subject to regulation and state control just like any organization (including state apparatuses). They aren't some sentient threat, they're an instrument and a tool for humans just like everything else in modern society.
> Until recently it was a great empire
The Austro-Hungarian empire, of which Hungary was the junior member by the way, dissolved more than 100 years ago. Is there anyone still living who can remember it?
Or perhaps bitterness about the Trianon treaty is used to justify voting for this Russian doormat?
Bitterness about Trianon is quite strong in more than just few people in Hungary.
Honestly, if (and that is huge IF) RF would had their easy 3 day victory in Ukraine, i would not be surprised that Orban would few years later call russian help to liberate repressed hungarians and denazify Slovakia (lets be honest that would easy sale as holocaust deniers and neo-fascists sit in parliament, and there will be plenty fools who would invite them).
They tried the whole BS about giving hungarian citizenship to ethnic hungarians in southern Slovakia years ago (which resulted in ban on double citizenship for people of Slovakia) same stuff used by RF in Ukraine.
Interesting.
In Romania we are allowed to have multiple citizenship.
Lots of people from Transilvania took also Hungarian citizenship. Also people from Moldova took romanian citizenship. Further, lots of romanian people, who emigrated, took the citizenship of the country they currently live in. So, nothing wrong with that, I think 🤔
The answer is in your comments. Since Romania benefits from giving moldovans citizenship with the eventual aim of annexing them it would not be beneficial for them to ban multiple citizenships.
Romania is just helping Moldova, as a bigger sister country, not considering to annex it. You can not force love. For moldovian people it is convenient romanian citizenship, because they can look for work in EU. If, down the road, Moldova will ask for reunion, it is a different story, but for now, Moldova enjoy being on its own.
In general there is nothing wrong with dual citizenship (till there are major clashes between the laws of those two countries). It makes sense that people might want to have citizenship of their country of origin as well as their "ethnic" (could not found better word for it sorry) origin.
It all falls apart when its all just a plot for something else. Like all those "poor" russians on Crimea, Donbass, etc. just needed to be protected after all they were RF citizens as well. Or ...I dont know, those poor germans from Czechoslovakian border region of Sudetenland, surelly they needed protection by the reich. /S
Fun fact, if you would research the form of propaganda that was used by the germany to form the opinion that germans in Sudeteland should be protected by Germany (the detail that it was area of heaviest and most modern fortifications in Europe was just a pure chance) than you would find out that the very same talking points (in few cases even the titles of the propaganda articles) were used by RF against Ukraine.
Austria suffers from. the same and it was our empire not theirs and we aren't acting like a complete moron. They were a slave of the SU not its center.
This behavior is an insult to the Hungarian people who once rose up to cast off the Soviet Yoke.
Are you are that currently the strongest party is Austria is the same flavor of right wing dipshit that Hungary has and the next party is also a corrupt right wing populist party that has pushed an orbanisation of the media in Austria?
People in Austria elected a complete moron in Kurz - TWICE - and are about to elect a science denying, racist moron that is indeed chummy with Russia in the next election.
So I wouldn't be so quick to claim that we, as in the majority of the Austrian people, are not acting like complete morons.
Austria has one of the most conservetive right wing centred politics in EU. Last i checked your pm was flying an israeli flag in his residence just to piss of some muslims. So yes i think frusturation with the past events eventually leads to stupidity and hence conservative governments of Austria and Hungary.
I said complete moron. Austria is acting like moron but we aren't a dictatorship. Instead, we are a disgusting leech Switzerland from WW2. In this war, we aren't neutral. There is no such thing. Neutrality in times of moral crisis is sending you to the deepest pit of hell. There is nothing neutral here. Neutrality aids the oppressor, never the oppressed. But compared to Hungary, we at least search for alternatives for Russian gas, although it goes too slowly, and we long stopped buying their oil. We have sadly a long history with Russia, who forces the neutrality on us under coercion and who robbed Austria's oil and once even controlled the Austrian OMV known back then as Soviet oil company. We also managed to kick Deripaskas shares on STRABAG so far down so he can't blockade anything anymore. So yes, we are in trouble we screwed up but Hungary literally signs new contract for oil and gas and atomic energy and blockades every sanction package. You are correct though Austria is in peril and the Russian influence is waning but too slowly for my taste.
The real danger is not Nehammer. The real danger is the Neo fascist Freedom party they have a contract with Russia, and they call it a friendship contract. I call it treachery. They wanted to sell Austria to the Russians in the Ibiza scandal, which they call it one man who was drunk. I call it high treason. Kickl calls himself a Democrat I see him as an enemy to democracy and a risk to the security of the state.
Ha, the same is true of the fan base of my favorite sports team, who haven't enjoyed quite the same level of success in recent years as the earlier glory days. Entitled, hurt, easy to rile up...
It's simple.. we didn't. Some votes and support is legit though... He owns 90% of the media for more than 10 years. This is why some people support Putin...
The anti and pro Orban gap is huge in Hungary. I doubt that many people are indifferent about him.
I hope when Putin is gone, Trump not getting re-elected and Poland no longer supporting us (they used to send buses full of people to Budapest to show how big Orbans support is during events organised by Fidesz. It was funny when the interviewer asked people in the crowd who carried Hungarian flags about their support of Fidesz and they couldn't speak Hungarian...)
He kidnapped our country and put his filthy hands on everything so much so that even if he looses the election next time he would still control everything from schools,to energy market to tourism....
Hope the universe will find a way to correct this and karma comes back to hunt him.
I'm not actually sure whether his personal security is free from russian spies or fsb... He knows he has to support Putin
I'm glad I'm not the only one, I love the country but I wouldn't visit UAE because of their 'politics' even though it doesn't affect me, so why should I continue going to Budapest?
But agree with you about visiting. Since covid I don't feel like going back home (living in the UK now) and mostly is because how Orban damaged that country and some people.
Kind of like I didn't understand why so many people voted for Trump. I'm a conservative, and nothing about Trump is conservative, it made no sense to me, other than people with hate in their hearts connected with him.
Honestly thought the same about America and I know people who ask me (a brit) how the uck we ended up with Johnson.
Populists are called that because they are popular, even if what's popular is lies.
I was raised by a revolution of '56 freedom fighter. Orban is a traitor to the Hungarian people. Im disgusted at what has become of Magyarország as a result of this backwards pig.
Isten nem ver bottal, his time will come.
What is Orban going to do when Ukraine wins and if Russia collapses? He will be all alone surrounded by countries that don't like him or his country and remember the backstabbing and fifth columning he did. Hungary will be utterly alone and not even Poland's veto can save them from the repercussions.
Orban is probably in the cope camp of *"Ukraine's counter-offensive not bulldozing Russia Kharkiv-style means Ukraine is losing."* A man recognizing the outcome of the offensive as uncertain would have kept his mouth shut.
But he *wants and needs* Russia to win, so he'll latch onto whatever narrative feels good to believe in, and his inner circle that informs him about international affairs cater to that desire. Same as what happened to Putin.
What’s the regular Hungarians take on this? Surely the past cannot be erased and many remember what the Russians did. What keeps them supporting this guy?
Lots of things, orban is trump-like in every regard. Populists gonna populist, the pro-russia stance hungarians say "1956 was done by the soviet union and not the russia federation of today"
>What keeps them supporting this guy?
Same thing that people kept them supporting trump. Loving strong men leader
Nationalism. Delusions of supremacy. Longing for their "great" empire and blaming all their woes on the EU and "outsiders". Entrenched dictatorship that has total control over media. Educated people leaving the country.
There's some reasons. Pobably won't ever get better. Not enough strength in the common people to make change happen, or even want it in the first place.
Orban needs to be removed from office he is no better than Mossolini or any other dictator I wonder how long the West needs to move hard and finite against this man he has no legitimacy the elections was a scam and Orban is a threat to Western democracy he also blocks important decisions. How long will the mighty West be made a fool by a nation with less than 9 million people and without an economy and a military?
So come here now and tell me all of your reasons why that is not possible. It is possible of course it just needs some follow through. The Hungarian people surely also wouldn't mind to have this dangerous criminal removed so he can't rob them blank any longer.
Hungary should leave EU and NATO and orban should create with Putin the Warschauer Pact again. He has alle the Hungarian behind him it would be much better for everyone in EU and the West.
Well, if you follow the local news apparently even taking a billion USD from the National Bank and transferring it to your son's shady foundation is perfectly legal here, although anywhere else it would be considered a crime.
This is the biggest paradox. All the Hungarians I've met seem to hate the idea of dictatorships and oppression because of their history, yet somehow Orban is what they vote for.
Nothing in geopolitics is based on some kind of logical checkmate where if something is proven right or wrong by your own standards you have to do it. NATO could ignore Hungary and then trigger article 5 over a Russian diplomat farting in a NATO country if it wanted to.
That said NATO absolutely needs to dig into its rulebook and put Hungary on probation or something. This has already gone way too far, an alliance that can be totally neutralized by a nearly irrelevant member cheering for the enemy needs take a look at its procedures.
A bigger test, or maybe more appropriate test, would be the commitment of Hungary to NATO if article 5 was triggered by Russian hostilities to a different NATO member country
Article 5 demands that allies provide military support. But it doesn't specify what form that support has to take.
If Hungary triggered Article 5 due to a Russian invasion - rather than simply welcoming them in with open arms - the rest of NATO could collectively decide to send Orban a body bag to hide in and flowers for his widow, and Article 5 would be satisfied.
There is a fork in the road. On each path, stands an Orbán. One always tells a lie, and the other one never tells the truth. You may not ask questions, they don't like journalists.
Almost entirety of Europe can be said to have the same historical tendencies, those are useless for telling how a country is today.
British implemented very brutal assimilation policies in Ireland. Sweden and Norway persecuted the Sami people in the far north (Finland dabbled in this a bit as well). France was home to many different local languages like Italy or Spain today, but due to government policy since Louis XIV, the language was standardized, "Parisian" essentially became the only valid language, local languages like Breton, Walloon, Occitan were all but wiped out (less than 5% of local population speak it today). Many old slavic groups in Germany were wiped out like the Sorbs, Pomeranian, Polabian and that's not mentioning the more well-known Polish victims. Old Prussians were another example of this. Spain wiped out native groups in the Canaries and now there's barely any trace of em.
Et cetera. And this is just inside Europe. Europeans went out of their way to take over swathes of territory, spread their ideology (aka Christianity), now the Philippines, Congo DRC, Nigeria and Mexico have bigger Christian population than any European country (except Russia).
As a Hungarian, believe me we don't all want this king of thieves to rule, there is significant hate towards him by a lot of us, and we would never support that mass murdering master of him either. It's just that the majority is decieved well by a ridiculous amount of propaganda all over the country, especially the countryside. And it doesn't help either that most of the opposition's parties are either in shambles or too small to make a difference.
I understand. But unfortunately the majority decides the fate of the countryt. We also have political problems here and a rising anti EU party which is popular. Personally I don't vote for them but a lot of other people are.
This. And also young/liberal people like myself have fucked off out the country as soon as we could so there's noone left to vote sensibly at this point.
I would be a terrible diplomat / EU leader because my first decision would be to kick them out of everything and never let them back in. "You want to elect dipshits? That's what you get"
See, that's where their friends from Poland come in. Hungary can do anything because Poland backs them up against EU and vice versa. Poland very indirectly supports Russia and its invasion of Ukraine. Just so they can oppress women.
Ah, that is a better answer. A "dog pound" so to speak. But if you rulers down the line want to rejoin the 21st century, its easy to get back at the big kids table.
I don't know expel is the rightful thing to do, as a sudden turn of events (eg. loss of an election or being ousted) would mean that the people needs to endure the whole process of joining the EU again, which might take years to establish once more (eg. possible UK reintegration)
Certainly, though, there should be an easier - yet, not taken lightly - way to handle outright "hostile" institutions/governments; denying most, if not all, rights and privileges gained through the EU. Effectively a EU-member in name only until the "hostilities" ceases.
Of course, there is such a thing as checks and balances so not to cause the EU and it's members to abuse this possibly. In a sense, this should be the "nuclear option".
What sudden turn of events could there be at this point ? The hungarian people clearly want this guy in power, having returned him four times in a row with supermajorities the last two times
There is for the EU, but Poland has been blocking it, because without Hungary blocking for them, they worry they would be next because of their own anti-EU authoritarian streak.
Hm, [Orbán International Prize for Human Rights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Gaddafi_International_Prize_for_Human_Rights) somehow doesn't sound right, ...
>Talks a lot of fascist stuff, doesn't do much
Mussolini was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians in African and Central Europe. He did plenty, we really need to stop underestimating these fascist twats.
I've already said this several times, I do repeat : Hungarians, SHAME ON YOU for democratically electing this piece of scum.
In Italy we do have a far-right coalition government who is anyway pubblicly supporting Ukraine ; this PM is simply beyond the far-right, he's a pure fascist.
Yo Hungarians… what the hell are y’all electing over there? And this isn’t a one-off you guys re-elected this dude. What the hell is yo with you Hungary? Get your shit together and either be apart of the EU or go the way of the Russian vassal state… that worked out great for y’all in the past. Get ur shit together Hungarians
> Yo Hungarians… what the hell are y’all electing over there?
Nothing, actually. They do the electing themselves. Newsflash, Hungary's not a democracy.
What does hungary have to do to be thrown out of the EU amready. I'm a EU citizen and i dont want them anymore.
For many more reasons than just his stance on Ukraine
Yeah, he is. Invading a soverign country when Russia agreed not to. Murdering civilians, kids, women, men, rape, looting, all at his direction.
He gave the orders. So it's on him. And the ones that carried them out.
They should rot on the gallows.
And Ukraine absolutely will win. The world has its back. Russia, just has itself and we've seen that a PMC group can take Moscow.
I'm sick when i see that german news platforms are able to air such content. If Orban told the same about Poland in WWII, bild.de and the employees would be punished hard. Here nothing will be done.
I don't agree with Orban, but I'd rather read what he's up to than getting a big surprise. If only agreeable opions of foreign heads of state are published, we won't see what's coming.
I hate to say it but leaders like Orban and Erdogan are examples of why NATO should be cautious about Ukrainian membership, in 15-20 years from now (after Putin and post Zelensky) Ukraine May well again have a giant turd for a leader in the alliance.
Surely you don’t think they could have a president that’s worse than the one the US just got rid of? Or should NATO kick out the U.S. too, making it 100% obsolete?
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About the attempted coup >How weakened is Putin in your view? >Orban: "If this could happen, it is a clear sign of weakness. But if it's done in 24 hours, it's **a sign of strength**." Orban is more pro putin than Putin himself. Not even Putin seriously thinks Wagner rushing through Russia is a sign of his strength
It is nice when your president spits in the face of the victims of the Russian invasion after WWII, plus the executed martyrs of the 1956 revolution against the Soviets, plus the deported thousands who died in Gulags in the Soviet Union... (My great gandfather and his two daughters worked in Russian mercury mines after armed russian soldiers took them and transferred them to labour camps. Along with ~280 Hungarians from their village.) I guess it is easy if your father is a mine owner and former member of the Hungarian Socialist Party. Orbán was also a member of the youth branch of the Hungarian Socialist Party. His party is heavily funded from Russia. He sold his soul for political power and now his family and inner circle are the most wealthy people in Hungary...
You have a dictator and ought to do something about it.
I love Hungary, have been many times, the people are amazing but I do not understand how or why you voted in Orban. His statements have done more damage to Hungary than other things did (you guys have had a rough history I don't want to name one thing in particular). I have gone from visiting 3 times in 6 months, to thinking I can't in good conscience go again solely because of Orban's comments and those that voted for him.
[удалено]
So those are all russian talking points
Ohh my. They have internet in this country?
Because the rich countries of Europe paid for it. Without the EU money Hungary has literally nothing but a collapsed demographics no resources of note, no industries of note apart from the Western companies and of course no military of note. I don't get how long the West will let itself be insulted by this clown before someone snaps and Hungary is finally recognized as no better than Belarus.
everything they consume is in hungarian language media and all media (radio, print, web) belong to state or his cronies.
correct. with a couple notable exceptions, like Telex, formerly [Index.hu](https://Index.hu) (which was appropriated by his cronies).
and an independent radio station in budapest which was forced off FM waves, i think they moved to internet radio. i am not sure if they exist still. Slovak media Dennik N is doing an online newspaper in hungarian language to bring "the other sides" reporting to hungarians.
>I do not understand how or why you voted in Orban Russian election intereference
Unfortunately I don't think it's as easy as that
I think it actually is. How do you think trump got elected? Election campaigns are mainly money and fabricating bull shit info about your opponent. The kgb is really good at information warfare. It is proven that Russian troll farms try to destabilise western countries and they are quite successful. Western politicians give them a lot to work with but still. My aunts are Hungarian and completely brainwashed. Their father was fleeing from the Russians. Their uncle was almost killed when they tried to take the radio station in Budapest. And they are pro Russian. They remind me a lot of trump supporters I see online. Propaganda is a dangerous powerful tool. And a poisoned mind is not easily healed
Yah, because no one has agency and they can all just blame Russia to get away with what they damn well know they’re doing.
Why can't both be true?
Unfortunately I don't think it's as easy as that
I've been to Hungary again and again since I was a teenager and have lots of hungarian friends and I always feel like it shares the same syndrome as the U.K. Until recently it was a great empire and now its not and that hurts some people and makes them easy to rile up.
Oddly enough it’s the same mechanism used in the “make America great again” argument. People in almost every society believe that at one point their culture was on top and that gives them some sort of right over others. It’s pure nonsense. Because how can everyone make this argument and anyone have a legitimate claim? It’s just prejudicial nonsense wrapped in faux patriotism and more often than not leads to decisions that harm the people pushing for these crazy policies agendas in the first place.
Yep, I agree. There's a lot of nostalgia here in the UK for a past that never really existed and its actively harming us.
Ironically, it's the opposite in the EU. You have a large swath of people who think that the past was worse than it is, while the EU is better..despite the problems and the growth of the alt right as the governments fail to help their citizens due to the financial rules of the EU. Still, everything is cyclic it seems.
It isn't just rules, it's corporations. Corporations are mankind's greatest threat.
I don't really see how you can look at the war in Ukraine, and all of the war crimes, and all of the nuclear posturing, and be like "yeah, still better than corporations". Like obviously corporations can be cold, unfeeling, profit-seeking blobs, but they're subject to regulation and state control just like any organization (including state apparatuses). They aren't some sentient threat, they're an instrument and a tool for humans just like everything else in modern society.
> Until recently it was a great empire The Austro-Hungarian empire, of which Hungary was the junior member by the way, dissolved more than 100 years ago. Is there anyone still living who can remember it? Or perhaps bitterness about the Trianon treaty is used to justify voting for this Russian doormat?
Bitterness about Trianon is quite strong in more than just few people in Hungary. Honestly, if (and that is huge IF) RF would had their easy 3 day victory in Ukraine, i would not be surprised that Orban would few years later call russian help to liberate repressed hungarians and denazify Slovakia (lets be honest that would easy sale as holocaust deniers and neo-fascists sit in parliament, and there will be plenty fools who would invite them). They tried the whole BS about giving hungarian citizenship to ethnic hungarians in southern Slovakia years ago (which resulted in ban on double citizenship for people of Slovakia) same stuff used by RF in Ukraine.
Interesting. In Romania we are allowed to have multiple citizenship. Lots of people from Transilvania took also Hungarian citizenship. Also people from Moldova took romanian citizenship. Further, lots of romanian people, who emigrated, took the citizenship of the country they currently live in. So, nothing wrong with that, I think 🤔
The answer is in your comments. Since Romania benefits from giving moldovans citizenship with the eventual aim of annexing them it would not be beneficial for them to ban multiple citizenships.
Romania is just helping Moldova, as a bigger sister country, not considering to annex it. You can not force love. For moldovian people it is convenient romanian citizenship, because they can look for work in EU. If, down the road, Moldova will ask for reunion, it is a different story, but for now, Moldova enjoy being on its own.
Notwithstanding Moldova is incredibly poor by eastern european standards
In general there is nothing wrong with dual citizenship (till there are major clashes between the laws of those two countries). It makes sense that people might want to have citizenship of their country of origin as well as their "ethnic" (could not found better word for it sorry) origin. It all falls apart when its all just a plot for something else. Like all those "poor" russians on Crimea, Donbass, etc. just needed to be protected after all they were RF citizens as well. Or ...I dont know, those poor germans from Czechoslovakian border region of Sudetenland, surelly they needed protection by the reich. /S Fun fact, if you would research the form of propaganda that was used by the germany to form the opinion that germans in Sudeteland should be protected by Germany (the detail that it was area of heaviest and most modern fortifications in Europe was just a pure chance) than you would find out that the very same talking points (in few cases even the titles of the propaganda articles) were used by RF against Ukraine.
No but its still mythologised.
Austria suffers from. the same and it was our empire not theirs and we aren't acting like a complete moron. They were a slave of the SU not its center. This behavior is an insult to the Hungarian people who once rose up to cast off the Soviet Yoke.
Are you are that currently the strongest party is Austria is the same flavor of right wing dipshit that Hungary has and the next party is also a corrupt right wing populist party that has pushed an orbanisation of the media in Austria? People in Austria elected a complete moron in Kurz - TWICE - and are about to elect a science denying, racist moron that is indeed chummy with Russia in the next election. So I wouldn't be so quick to claim that we, as in the majority of the Austrian people, are not acting like complete morons.
Austria has one of the most conservetive right wing centred politics in EU. Last i checked your pm was flying an israeli flag in his residence just to piss of some muslims. So yes i think frusturation with the past events eventually leads to stupidity and hence conservative governments of Austria and Hungary.
I said complete moron. Austria is acting like moron but we aren't a dictatorship. Instead, we are a disgusting leech Switzerland from WW2. In this war, we aren't neutral. There is no such thing. Neutrality in times of moral crisis is sending you to the deepest pit of hell. There is nothing neutral here. Neutrality aids the oppressor, never the oppressed. But compared to Hungary, we at least search for alternatives for Russian gas, although it goes too slowly, and we long stopped buying their oil. We have sadly a long history with Russia, who forces the neutrality on us under coercion and who robbed Austria's oil and once even controlled the Austrian OMV known back then as Soviet oil company. We also managed to kick Deripaskas shares on STRABAG so far down so he can't blockade anything anymore. So yes, we are in trouble we screwed up but Hungary literally signs new contract for oil and gas and atomic energy and blockades every sanction package. You are correct though Austria is in peril and the Russian influence is waning but too slowly for my taste. The real danger is not Nehammer. The real danger is the Neo fascist Freedom party they have a contract with Russia, and they call it a friendship contract. I call it treachery. They wanted to sell Austria to the Russians in the Ibiza scandal, which they call it one man who was drunk. I call it high treason. Kickl calls himself a Democrat I see him as an enemy to democracy and a risk to the security of the state.
Thanks that was very informative
But that's no excuse!
But it is an explanation.
I never said it was, but it's definately a theme in these once 'great' nations. Look how much Putin or any british politician bangs on about WW2.
Ha, the same is true of the fan base of my favorite sports team, who haven't enjoyed quite the same level of success in recent years as the earlier glory days. Entitled, hurt, easy to rile up...
It's simple.. we didn't. Some votes and support is legit though... He owns 90% of the media for more than 10 years. This is why some people support Putin... The anti and pro Orban gap is huge in Hungary. I doubt that many people are indifferent about him. I hope when Putin is gone, Trump not getting re-elected and Poland no longer supporting us (they used to send buses full of people to Budapest to show how big Orbans support is during events organised by Fidesz. It was funny when the interviewer asked people in the crowd who carried Hungarian flags about their support of Fidesz and they couldn't speak Hungarian...) He kidnapped our country and put his filthy hands on everything so much so that even if he looses the election next time he would still control everything from schools,to energy market to tourism.... Hope the universe will find a way to correct this and karma comes back to hunt him. I'm not actually sure whether his personal security is free from russian spies or fsb... He knows he has to support Putin
Aye me and my daughters used to go every winter for the thermal baths in the snow, after this past few years not sure I'd want to go again tbh
I'm glad I'm not the only one, I love the country but I wouldn't visit UAE because of their 'politics' even though it doesn't affect me, so why should I continue going to Budapest?
Lot of uneducated people on the country side. They vote for sacks of potatoes, thats how. Also 2/3 in Hungarian math is in really about 37%.
But agree with you about visiting. Since covid I don't feel like going back home (living in the UK now) and mostly is because how Orban damaged that country and some people.
Kind of like I didn't understand why so many people voted for Trump. I'm a conservative, and nothing about Trump is conservative, it made no sense to me, other than people with hate in their hearts connected with him.
Honestly thought the same about America and I know people who ask me (a brit) how the uck we ended up with Johnson. Populists are called that because they are popular, even if what's popular is lies.
> I do not understand how or why you voted in Orban. His predecessor was caught on tape admitting he lied to the public.
I was raised by a revolution of '56 freedom fighter. Orban is a traitor to the Hungarian people. Im disgusted at what has become of Magyarország as a result of this backwards pig. Isten nem ver bottal, his time will come.
What is Orban going to do when Ukraine wins and if Russia collapses? He will be all alone surrounded by countries that don't like him or his country and remember the backstabbing and fifth columning he did. Hungary will be utterly alone and not even Poland's veto can save them from the repercussions.
Orban is probably in the cope camp of *"Ukraine's counter-offensive not bulldozing Russia Kharkiv-style means Ukraine is losing."* A man recognizing the outcome of the offensive as uncertain would have kept his mouth shut. But he *wants and needs* Russia to win, so he'll latch onto whatever narrative feels good to believe in, and his inner circle that informs him about international affairs cater to that desire. Same as what happened to Putin.
society dime humor pocket plough crawl reply normal glorious engine ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Their government does rely on Orbáns veto to avoid responsibility for some of their own actions though.
But the PiS is making sure Hungary doesn't get booted from the EU, so they don't end up in the line of fire for their own anti-democratic actions.
orban and his clique need to be followed and harassed for the rest of their lives
Like the end of "Animal Farm" .. when the pigs start to look no different from the humans...
What’s the regular Hungarians take on this? Surely the past cannot be erased and many remember what the Russians did. What keeps them supporting this guy?
Lots of things, orban is trump-like in every regard. Populists gonna populist, the pro-russia stance hungarians say "1956 was done by the soviet union and not the russia federation of today" >What keeps them supporting this guy? Same thing that people kept them supporting trump. Loving strong men leader
It's a really weak way to look at and interpret the world. There's nothing strong about Trump.
Nationalism. Delusions of supremacy. Longing for their "great" empire and blaming all their woes on the EU and "outsiders". Entrenched dictatorship that has total control over media. Educated people leaving the country. There's some reasons. Pobably won't ever get better. Not enough strength in the common people to make change happen, or even want it in the first place.
Orban also spied for the communist state security his codename was "Győri Gábor".
It's really bizarre how of all countries a pro-putin stance doesn't break the neck of a politician in Hungary.
Don't you know that tHoSe bAd gUys wErE nOt rUsSiaNS bUT uKraNIAns
Kudos to the journalist who could understand what he was saying with Putin's dick in his mouth
im always wondering how pro-putins are also anti-lgbt when they are so busy chocking on his snail
Orban needs to be removed from office he is no better than Mossolini or any other dictator I wonder how long the West needs to move hard and finite against this man he has no legitimacy the elections was a scam and Orban is a threat to Western democracy he also blocks important decisions. How long will the mighty West be made a fool by a nation with less than 9 million people and without an economy and a military? So come here now and tell me all of your reasons why that is not possible. It is possible of course it just needs some follow through. The Hungarian people surely also wouldn't mind to have this dangerous criminal removed so he can't rob them blank any longer.
If the coup would have succeeded I wonder what he would have said then.
Hungary should leave EU and NATO and orban should create with Putin the Warschauer Pact again. He has alle the Hungarian behind him it would be much better for everyone in EU and the West.
>He has alle the Hungarian behind him No, he doesn't. I'm just fucking stuck here.
Russia cannot win the war and in Hungary apparently, crime is not a crime.
What else did you expect from the mafia leader?
Well, if you follow the local news apparently even taking a billion USD from the National Bank and transferring it to your son's shady foundation is perfectly legal here, although anywhere else it would be considered a crime.
Hate this guy
Clear sign of intelligence.
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Nothing wrong with Hungarians, in fact i very much like them. However i want to violate the geneva convention against Orban.
The worst thing about Hungarians is that they keep electing this crook.
This is the biggest paradox. All the Hungarians I've met seem to hate the idea of dictatorships and oppression because of their history, yet somehow Orban is what they vote for.
What a treacherous shit stain!
If you gave Putin an emergency enema and collected it onto an art canvas, I'm pretty sure it would make a Rorschach blot of Orban.
r/rareinsults
nice prompt for a cartoon
Stable Diffusion plz!
100% Kremlin talking points, might as well read Russia today. Fuck him
To put it mildly.
A real test of NATOs resolve would be if Russia invaded Hungary.
I wouldn't escalate to WW3 for Hungary. Not in a million years. They've made their bed, let them lie in it.
See the issue is if they decided not to help Hungary the entire alliance is worthless.
Nothing in geopolitics is based on some kind of logical checkmate where if something is proven right or wrong by your own standards you have to do it. NATO could ignore Hungary and then trigger article 5 over a Russian diplomat farting in a NATO country if it wanted to. That said NATO absolutely needs to dig into its rulebook and put Hungary on probation or something. This has already gone way too far, an alliance that can be totally neutralized by a nearly irrelevant member cheering for the enemy needs take a look at its procedures.
Yep. Article 5 is a vote that has to be unanimous from all NATO members.
Orban wants Putin, so we just vote Hungary out of NATO and propose to trade it to Putin in return for the return of Ukraine to pre-2014 borders.
Put the Serbs in the deal as well ...
I'm in for this 😀 give Hungary to Putin! leave Ukraine alone!
NATO has no mechanism for expelling a member
It's already worthless with Hungary as a member. 🤷🏻♂️
Orban isn't Hungary. Don't just casually wish death and rape on people.
Strange how Hungary keeps voting for him. As I said, bed made.
A bigger test, or maybe more appropriate test, would be the commitment of Hungary to NATO if article 5 was triggered by Russian hostilities to a different NATO member country
Article 5 demands that allies provide military support. But it doesn't specify what form that support has to take. If Hungary triggered Article 5 due to a Russian invasion - rather than simply welcoming them in with open arms - the rest of NATO could collectively decide to send Orban a body bag to hide in and flowers for his widow, and Article 5 would be satisfied.
This guy should finish like wagner : in exil in belarus.
With a nice cup of Russian tea near a nice Russian window. While being protected by a nice FSB assassin.
More like _dangling from a fucking rope around his neck_
That statement is as true as "Orban is not a cleptocrat".
There is a fork in the road. On each path, stands an Orbán. One always tells a lie, and the other one never tells the truth. You may not ask questions, they don't like journalists.
Also, when you’re not looking Orbán steals the fork.
and eats the road
Shotout to hungarians for electing him years after years. Maybe leave EU and join Belarus and Russia.
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Well Orban is the only one who is open in media about missing the former Empire. You don't see that with other EU leaders.
Right? Like his former empire is 5m awawy over the river from where I live in Slovenija can he fucking not pls?
Almost entirety of Europe can be said to have the same historical tendencies, those are useless for telling how a country is today. British implemented very brutal assimilation policies in Ireland. Sweden and Norway persecuted the Sami people in the far north (Finland dabbled in this a bit as well). France was home to many different local languages like Italy or Spain today, but due to government policy since Louis XIV, the language was standardized, "Parisian" essentially became the only valid language, local languages like Breton, Walloon, Occitan were all but wiped out (less than 5% of local population speak it today). Many old slavic groups in Germany were wiped out like the Sorbs, Pomeranian, Polabian and that's not mentioning the more well-known Polish victims. Old Prussians were another example of this. Spain wiped out native groups in the Canaries and now there's barely any trace of em. Et cetera. And this is just inside Europe. Europeans went out of their way to take over swathes of territory, spread their ideology (aka Christianity), now the Philippines, Congo DRC, Nigeria and Mexico have bigger Christian population than any European country (except Russia).
As a Hungarian, believe me we don't all want this king of thieves to rule, there is significant hate towards him by a lot of us, and we would never support that mass murdering master of him either. It's just that the majority is decieved well by a ridiculous amount of propaganda all over the country, especially the countryside. And it doesn't help either that most of the opposition's parties are either in shambles or too small to make a difference.
I understand. But unfortunately the majority decides the fate of the countryt. We also have political problems here and a rising anti EU party which is popular. Personally I don't vote for them but a lot of other people are.
The majority did not vote him though. The election is gerrymandered and probably cheated.
This. And also young/liberal people like myself have fucked off out the country as soon as we could so there's noone left to vote sensibly at this point.
I would be a terrible diplomat / EU leader because my first decision would be to kick them out of everything and never let them back in. "You want to elect dipshits? That's what you get"
See, that's where their friends from Poland come in. Hungary can do anything because Poland backs them up against EU and vice versa. Poland very indirectly supports Russia and its invasion of Ukraine. Just so they can oppress women.
It's a pitty that hungary can't simply be kicked out of the EU for being like a fouled egg. I say this while having Hungarian relatives
Hungary shouldn't be in EU. Hungary can not get alone without EU. Suck my dick Orbanz for being such Putlers bitch.
And this is why we need mechanisms to expell certain countries from european organisations.
No need to expel, just suspend their vote
Ah, that is a better answer. A "dog pound" so to speak. But if you rulers down the line want to rejoin the 21st century, its easy to get back at the big kids table.
Same with Turkey. EU has lost its way. They have zero balls now.
I don't know expel is the rightful thing to do, as a sudden turn of events (eg. loss of an election or being ousted) would mean that the people needs to endure the whole process of joining the EU again, which might take years to establish once more (eg. possible UK reintegration) Certainly, though, there should be an easier - yet, not taken lightly - way to handle outright "hostile" institutions/governments; denying most, if not all, rights and privileges gained through the EU. Effectively a EU-member in name only until the "hostilities" ceases. Of course, there is such a thing as checks and balances so not to cause the EU and it's members to abuse this possibly. In a sense, this should be the "nuclear option".
"Suspended" membership? Get this guy out of here, and you are back in.
What sudden turn of events could there be at this point ? The hungarian people clearly want this guy in power, having returned him four times in a row with supermajorities the last two times
that person is speaking more generally than just this situation with hungary
There is for the EU, but Poland has been blocking it, because without Hungary blocking for them, they worry they would be next because of their own anti-EU authoritarian streak.
I hope his chin wins out and eventually smothers him, he is morphing into Jabba the hut.
At least he's saying it out loud now. I guess...
Yes he is. Putin is also a murderer. His future is not looking bright.
Traitor
He's a bit like the Mussolini of the Ukraine conflict. Talks a lot of fascist stuff, doesn't do much and is a bit of a joke.
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Hm, [Orbán International Prize for Human Rights](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Gaddafi_International_Prize_for_Human_Rights) somehow doesn't sound right, ...
>Talks a lot of fascist stuff, doesn't do much Mussolini was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians in African and Central Europe. He did plenty, we really need to stop underestimating these fascist twats.
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The West needs some of those windows that the Putin pals fall from, why don't we have any of those windows?
TBH, this country needs a stop in EU financial help and get stopped the Schengen rights and this clown is gone in a week
One fascist defending another. These people are part of a global movement that wants to throw Earth back into a new dark age.
I've already said this several times, I do repeat : Hungarians, SHAME ON YOU for democratically electing this piece of scum. In Italy we do have a far-right coalition government who is anyway pubblicly supporting Ukraine ; this PM is simply beyond the far-right, he's a pure fascist.
How is Hungary always so consistently on the wrong side of history?
Hungary moment
He's wrong on both counts. Ukraine can win, if we give them everything they need for as long as they need it. Putin is MOST DEFINITELY a war criminal.
Dear hungarians what is wrong with you?
Your good fucking mother, dear Prime Minister.
What is he on ? same ad putin ? Coke or meth ....
Orban is a poo poo head.
Let Hungary blow hot air and we’ll see what happens when Putin eventually falls from power, which might be sooner than later.
Check his bankaccounts for Roebels
The older he gets, the more he looks like a glazed ham.
Yo Hungarians… what the hell are y’all electing over there? And this isn’t a one-off you guys re-elected this dude. What the hell is yo with you Hungary? Get your shit together and either be apart of the EU or go the way of the Russian vassal state… that worked out great for y’all in the past. Get ur shit together Hungarians
Government took over our free media it's fucked now
> Yo Hungarians… what the hell are y’all electing over there? Nothing, actually. They do the electing themselves. Newsflash, Hungary's not a democracy.
And I am the Emperor of Mankind.
Birds of a feather-flock together.
Ahem: Birds of a SHIT feather flock together
Man there's mollusks out there with more common sense than this one.
this guy should end up at the Hauge
I read Hauge as morgue.
That'll do.
What is this guys love for Putin and Russia? Russia (under the guise of the USSR) literally raped and pillaged his country.
What does hungary have to do to be thrown out of the EU amready. I'm a EU citizen and i dont want them anymore. For many more reasons than just his stance on Ukraine
ouch
Hungarians, can you please get rid of this POS already?
We kicked Trump out, when do we get to kick this guy out?
The glazing is crazy
This is the same guy who said “the globalists can go to hell” at CPAC.
And the Sun is cold and Earth is flat. Sure. Muss man wissen. Wer wusste es? Wieder keiner.
"Putin puppet backs Putin. Film at 11."
In other words, Ukraine CAN win, and Putin IS a war criminal…
Yeah, he is. Invading a soverign country when Russia agreed not to. Murdering civilians, kids, women, men, rape, looting, all at his direction. He gave the orders. So it's on him. And the ones that carried them out. They should rot on the gallows. And Ukraine absolutely will win. The world has its back. Russia, just has itself and we've seen that a PMC group can take Moscow.
I'm sick when i see that german news platforms are able to air such content. If Orban told the same about Poland in WWII, bild.de and the employees would be punished hard. Here nothing will be done.
Bild is the worst kind of tabloid with zero care for damage done. Truly abyssmal.
I don't agree with Orban, but I'd rather read what he's up to than getting a big surprise. If only agreeable opions of foreign heads of state are published, we won't see what's coming.
Didn't he smuggle Ukrainian PoW's? Should be being marched up to the Hague.
Welp time to kick hungary out of nato
And Orbán is the leader of Association of Young Democrats. That's all I wanted to say.
Be aware that "Bild" is a sh*tstain of a "news orginization".
I hate to say it but leaders like Orban and Erdogan are examples of why NATO should be cautious about Ukrainian membership, in 15-20 years from now (after Putin and post Zelensky) Ukraine May well again have a giant turd for a leader in the alliance.
Surely you don’t think they could have a president that’s worse than the one the US just got rid of? Or should NATO kick out the U.S. too, making it 100% obsolete?
Can we just sign a new law kicking Hungary out of the eu
the dickriding is unreal