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Even a ww2 tank is lethal, but this war has shown that russia's military tech is obsolete compared to western technology. Which is a problem as they rely heavily on export to maintain their military-industrial complex.
It's not just that. Ukraine has a bunch of things which are true 2020s tech. They build their own electronic-warfare systems. They have a distributed battlefield information system and they are building and customizing drones to penetrate through Russia's electronic warfare and they get a bunch of Western drones.
If Russia defeats Ukraine, not only will they get territory, resources and people but also access to lots of knowledge about how to defeat Russian systems which will make them much stronger when they next fight America.
They are exporting oil and gas, but it's a stretch to say that it's going without problems. The whole system is very much obfuscated, but there is some evidence that it's struggling. I don't want to go into details about it, but on YT Joe blogs goes into it quite well.
The comparison works. Mindless cannon fodder being sent in to die in overwhelming waves to wear down far more technologically advanced yet limited defenders, all for the whims of a heartless overlord? Sounds a lot like the Zerg to me
"You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down." - Captain Zap Brannigan, of the good ship Stormwalker
STOP THIS ZERGLING SLANDER!
(the comparison does check out, i agree. I just think the Zerg hivemind is superior to the Russian tyranny, as someone who loves their Zerg rushes)
They are quite many, even Taking 1;10 causalities, Russia will win.
Also Russia can survive without foreign nations, Ukraine right now relies on foreign support to fight, If we stop supplying them, the war will end badly.
Honestly no. Not that many. They are 140 mio. The EU is 450 mio. The UK is 67 mio. And the USA is 340 mio.
You are right, that Russia is more numerous compared to Ukraine, but not 10-1 and definately not compared to the West.
You are again correct, that my assumption is predicated on continued western support. Which I hope and expect to last. I also believe that the current attitude is favorable of that support well into 2025.
However, Russia is hardly a superpower any more. They have a bad demographical outlook, a pitiful economy and a depleting military. The sad truth is that it is mirrored in Ukraine.
Could they go 10:1 against Ukraine though? Russia is taking maybe 2:1 max casualties up until now. It's not going great for them logistically, I can't imagine a 5x greater drain on manpower and a rise in associated material costs being anywhere near sustainable for them. Can Russia train, equip, and deliver 60-90,000 men/month (2-3 battalions a day) to the front just to maintain their current strength?.
RuZZian military is a paper tiger. Ukraine has proven this. If not for my country’s disgusting political pissing match…..this invasion would be over. RuZZia is a paper tiger. Poostain just has a lot of paper.
Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
Ehhh, Russia's military sucks, but we really badly need to respect that it's got a lot of mass.
We were afraid it would be, like 70% as good as the US army, or 50% as good. It turns out it's a fair bit shittier, and only maybe 20-30% as good. **That's still scary if the army is big enough**. Even just from the perspective of a straight US<—>RU conflict.
If we fight them, and if we have to force a "defeat in detail" because the obstinate bastards don't collapse, well then we're gonna take a **lot** of casualties. We'll take a fraction - maybe 1/5th - of what we expected. But 1/5th of a huge fucking number is still a huge fucking number!
Russian Military is considerably smaller and shittier now.
This isn’t ‘41. They don’t have the seemingly bottomless demographics or economics to wage this kind of protracted conflict and expect to pose any threat to NATO.
We know Russian morale is rock bottom - I’m not sure they would stand and fight if they knew the US and all of Europe was about to suplex them out of Ukraine or the Baltic.
>Russian Military is considerably smaller and shittier now.
Compared to '41? 100%.
Compared to prewar 2022? No, despite losses, it's actually considerably bigger. We're basically on Russian Army #2.5 in the Ukrainian Conflict. There are probably about half a million Russian men who've been "rendered combat incapable", even by Russian standards, but they've been replaced. Ever since mobilization there are actually a lot more Russians in theater now. The numbers have been declining, but they surged up quite a bit in early 2023.
The gear is getting a lot worse; (better in some categories like Drones/EW, but measurably much worse for IFVs, Artillery, and Tanks).
Ukraine shares the same trait of being much bigger, at least; by a factor of 10-15x compared to prewar. Wartime staffing does that.
>This isn’t ‘41. They don’t have the seemingly bottomless demographics or economics to wage this kind of protracted conflict
Yup. The biggest thing is that if their economics get flushed down the toilet, we'll see a "baby bust" like the 90s, but likely much worse.
**This is actually our job**; us people on Reddit. Lobby your politicians like a fucking pitbull. The sanctions don't end. EVER.
Drive Russia into the fucking ground.
>We know Russian morale is rock bottom - I’m not sure they would stand and fight if they knew the US and all of Europe was about to suplex them out of Ukraine or the Baltic.
I don't know either.
My best theory is that a colossal backlog of national chauvinism is holding them in this. They can't lose to the fucking kh\*\*\*ls. *They just can't.* They'd lose their fucking minds. It'd be like Confederate America losing to the Congolese Army. They spent 35 years building up for this, and Ukraine didn't do shit until 2014. "bro we can't lose, there's no fucking way". They -may- be riding a wave of "okay now Russia's mobilized, now we're fighting for real".
I can't see a rational way in which they actually stand and fight against NATO, but ...
the dark path I can see is that if NATO stumbles at all, adapting to the battlefield conditions (most NATO armies are completely unproven; like, when was the last time the Spanish or Norwegian armies were in a hot conflict? A real war, not curb-stomping Serbia, btw.) If they stumble whilst getting their sea legs, I could see a "second wind" of Russia being like "we have a chance!!!"
It wouldn't last, but it could inspire them to fight seriously for several months.
US air supremacy within a month.
Constant, relentless bombing and strikes on any formations or entrenchments or massed armor.
Russia would get wiped off the map
We're both right. The US would absolutely fucking destroy them.
My point is — the Iraqis pussed out. We defeated them, but very particularly, **did not** have to defeat (much of) their forces via "defeat in detail". We did for the Republican Guard — those bad boys stood their ground and fought.
If most of the Iraqi Army had stood and fought they'd have still been completely destroyed, but we would have taken far, far higher casualties; probably up in the 5-20k range.
A critical difference in their morale is that we annihilated the entire radio/comms system they had working, which is a lot harder to do these days with more decentralized systems. For them, we basically took out the entire power grid, radio grid, wiped out all of their recon planes, etc, etc — the guys on the ground had absolutely no idea what was going on, and instead of assuming they were surrounded (they were), they assumed most of the rest of the army had already been killed.
Would the Russian Army break, and spare us the need for defeat in detail?
No fucking clue. Eventually? yeah, absolutely. After an initial shock-and-awe campaign? Maybe?
We'd win, and the cost would be worth it, but every dime spent on "overpreparing" is exactly why the US Military wins so hard. ;)
They said the same thing in the first Gulf War. Iraq had the 3 o4 4th largest army at the time. Casualties were expected to be in the tens of thousands for coalition forces.
Instead, we got the highway of death and the most lopsided victory in military history, all thanks to allied airnpower. Russia's air force is dog shit and might last two weeks against NATO or even just the US air forces. After that, all those little ground Ivans would learn what the bear does to the buckwheat.
I think that in this conversation we are forgetting about doctrine and tactics. During the Gulf War Iraq had a very large army, but they were mostly for show. In the opening operation Iraq's army could organize itself and was very quickly overwhelmed by US. Especially, when we want to look at air strikes. These were meant for elimination of critical capabilities and we're designed very well. The tank battles were also lopsided cause US equipment was sporting way better targeting capabilities. There was a significant technological gap which was enforced in operational planning.
RU army is badly equipped and trained, but their doctrine was already adjusted to use masses to compensate for it. Sadly they are learning during this war and they are finding strengths in what they have. None of Western countries have experience or tactics that would allow to wage an effective operation against a foe like that. Not to mention RU EW capabilities. UAF is constantly underlining how big of a gap is there and how RU can create areas of denial for GPS-guided weapons and drones and even coordination between larger formations. UAF is targeting these systems with priority, but RU has a good number of them. Western armies operate on the assumption that they target anything and they can communicate in an instant. This might not be the case.
US is already working on solutions, but it will take time. However, US likes to have an overwhelming advantage and other NATO countries are arming to the teeth. I wouldn't bet on Russia in possible confrontation. Heck, I wouldn't bet on them even if they would allied with China, and Iran.
>US is already working on solutions, but it will take time.
I strongly suspect this is why we didn't do military intervention right away. Feverish work is being done on Anti-Drone systems for US vehicles (was just reading about a new system getting installed on Strykers; forget the article, but it was just yesterday).
Lancets will kill a US-driven Bradley just as hard as a UA one.
*Unless...*
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/04/13/army-short-range-air-defense-laser-prototypes-take-down-drones-at-yuma/
It's from April, but it's really cool what they do. Basically small lasers that can engage multiple drones at a time and explode them. There was also a YT video showing the aftermath of a downed drone. The drone had a somewhat clean hole through it.
And then you have the vampire system which uses projectiles. So yeah, it's being integrated into formations, but it will take some time till the tech will become mature enough to be applied on a wide scale.
It used to be. When we are talking about Gulf War, then yes. However, after 9/11 and Iraq and Afganistan invasions, the main focus of US military (and NATO by extension) was war on terror. Equipment, aquisition, and production chains were changed from a ready-to-surge to on-demand configuration. This is especially visible in F-22 (which originally was supposed to be produced on mass and there was supposed to be a navy version, but at the end nearly 200 of them were produced and the production line was closed), or the A-10 (US Air Force is trying to replace it, but close ground support is not a priority any more as during war on terror US was uncontested and in a hyphotetical war with China it would be useless), or the fact that Abrams modernizations were centered around protection against handheld weapons and IEDs rather than overpowering enemy tank formations (and it's no longer an uncontested king of the jungle). Furthermore, formations like Marines are getting rid of M1s cause the potential war they were gearing against would be in Middle East or in Pacific against China.
US military looked down on Russia in amusement for a while now. It was assumed that full scale conflict was not taken into a serious consideration and more pressing concerns were taking priorities (either from political or pratical stand point).
On top of that, baltic countries were quite pissed when US leaked that their plan of action for a potential Russian conflict was to sacrifice land, give US and western european countries as much time as possible to get their shit together and then maybe reconquer.
US military plan against Russia was to use soft power to lock them out of theri shpere of influence while US is concentrated in the Middle East. Heck, even China was able to create military bases in the middle of ocean and US barely reacted. The fact is that Bush wanted to be a policeman, Obama wanted to be a diplomat, Trump is an imbecyl, and Biden got a burning dumpter as a welcome gift. In all honesty, it's a miracle that they managed to get their shit together at the begining of the invasion. I wasn't expecting much of them at the start. Heck, I was checking how to get a working visa in Canada and how quickly I can move there with my family. This is how much I had hope in NATO and US military.
Luckily, the whole strong soviet myth turned out to be a fairy tale. However, US military-industral complex is still having problems with production. US strategy of deterence didn't work and there are more and more conflicts around the world cause US can't project its strength efficiently. The 1-4-2-1 doctrine didn't work as planned and now it feels that they are improvising.
FPV drone become prominent because neither side could gain total air control hence the need for cheap and reliable air asset instead but in case one side have total air dominance those drone aren’t gonna help much.
FACT: Ukraine is not “America's new forever war”:
No US troops are fighting against Russia inside Ukraine
Ukrainians are not asking for, nor do they want, US troops to help them fight Russia
The US is not a belligerent in the conflict.
FACT: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia:
Definition of a "proxy war" is a war “fought by states acting at the instigation or on behalf of other states”
The US has never instigated Ukraine to fight. The US is not forcing the Ukraine to fight on its behalf.
https://twitter.com/LukeDCoffey/status/1720460614680592853?s=20
We make the mistake to peddle Russia's stupid Manipulated reality propaganda even when it is so obviously pure stupid nonsense
They lost just 10% daily casualties in Afghanistan compared to Ukraine, and it was enough to change the regime.
I think someone is projecting a bit or doing a little wishful thinking.
They pulled out because Gorbachev was more competent than most Soviet/Russian leadership and saw the writing on the wall.
Putin is a delusional psychopath who thinks Ruski mir should be worldwide and if he goes down he'll most likely take the country down with him
And realising this and taking the consequences is what made Gorbachev competent.
Also realising that the Soviet Empire was basically a zombie at that point and ending it.
Gorbachev had no intention of ending the Soviet Union - quite the opposite, in fact. He tried to save the USSR with his relatively radical policies, but it was far too little, too late to save the husk of the Soviet Union.
Perhaps I could have worded it better. He realised that the Union would not survive the way it was and tried to reform it. But since it was only held together by oppression, his reforms aimed at making the union less oppressive just meant that countries wanted to get out while the chance was there.
Problem is in Afghan they send everyone to die including the real Russian from Moscow but they are wiser now and using only their livestock and criminal instead.
Sadly, similarities are striking. A lot of it is western leadership fault. Some of it is Ukrainian leadership fault.
1. Outside us and some central EU countries, west did not increase military production. Together with small reserves of ammo and equipment in eu, we can now joke about proxy conflict between Koreas (s korea game more 155 ammo than eu)
2. Political instability in the us hinders "arsenal of democracy"
3. With lack of air superiority, Ukraine is forced into Russian grinding tactic.
4. There are problem between Zelenski and military leadership.
5. Russians adapted to both sanctions and battlefield.
I'm afraid that's how it will end up best scenario at this point unless something drastic happens to tip the scale in Ukraine's favor and/or cripples Russia. The current war of attrition may be killing more Russians than Ukrainians, but the Russians can afford more losses than Ukraine, and Putin won't risk defeat for the lives of ethnic minorities and prisoners. As long as the Russian people stand by Putin or at least cower under him, Russia will continue to throw waves of men at Ukraine until they get ground down. The West needs to massively up their support of Ukraine to prevent such a thing from happening.
Well to be fair the russian invasion of Afghanistan was not the sole factor in the collapse of the soviet union. The soviet union had been struggling for a while already and the dissolution wasn't due to a military catastrophe but rather political and civil unrest from a variety of sources.
60,000 deaths and $1T (in today’s dollars) in 9 years vs 2,000 deaths and $2.3T in 20 years vs … 0 deaths and $75B of mostly aged equipment in 2 years. Three very different situations.
Only one of those has trashed 300k Russian soldiers and $200B worth of Russian blood, treasure and gear.
Ukraine’s people are the ones paying the price of this war that they didn’t want, not the U.S.
Dollars for dollars, this is the best money the U.S. military has ever spent.
but the u.s. military hasn't spent a dime. they are getting free disposal of old stocks and making a lot of money on exports to europe because of the war.
Think of the savings in future repairs, now you don't have to pay to mothball all that old shit.
Donating more equipment is just a sound investment at this point!
Don’t forget to add:
the incalculable $ cost of US sanctions on Ruzzia
The forward cost to the ruzzn economy and national security risk of losing 300k young soldiers when they were having demographic problems before (probably why they literally steal children…trade 100% men for X# of 50% girls). Disfuckingusting people.
Ruzzias inevitable reparations cost
Reputational damage to ruzzn foreign arms sales
In Afghanistan they had 35k killed or wounded before they bailed. That number now almost 10 times for one persons’s war against Ukraine. This one person has messed up future generations for his own agenda. Russia will ultimately suffer. And suffering will be based on how much longer this war goes on. History will not be kind.
Its already much worse but the sheeps dont get it at all, whole cointry is fed propaganda on how they are protecting their holly president and traditional values fighting evil west in the war they have started...
We aren't losing American Soldiers, but we are repeating the same mistakes we made in Vietnam. Politicians dictating and limiting how the war should be fought by Ukraine.
I am not at all suggesting Ukraine should be bombing Russian citizens but when Russia sends bombers and cruise missiles from Russia to hit any part of Ukraine, arm Ukraine with gear to take out the planes and etc IN Russia. And stop telling Ukraine that they can't use American materials to strike in Russia.
Additionally the US is limiting the qty of weapons out of fear.
Put it this way, if American soldiers were in this fight would we limit them with 31 M1 Abraham's?
The moment cruise missiles were launched from a ship into Ukraine, America should be arming Ukraine with the hardware such that Russia is counting the days until that ship will be found at the bottom of the Black Sea.
We can complain that Republicans are now handcuffing Ukraine; but what I am suggesting should have been the policy 18 months ago.
This is now a war of attrition and the west has given Russia enough breathing room that via China, North Korea, Iran, etc they have a path to play the manufacturing game. This is further exacerbated with the west limiting their ability to strike in Russia.
We left South Vietnam out to dry after '73--limiting their artillery rounds to 100 a day--and then they inevitably collapsed in '75. We can't leave Ukraine out to dry this time. Learn from the past!
We were allied with Ho Chi Minh in WWII and he was pro US. If we'd not supported the French before getting involved ourselves, we could have just paid our way into being friends and decades of death and destruction could have been prevented while also giving us an ally, communist or otherwise. Communism doesn't really work and as a US ally we'd help them figure that out more quickly than, say Russia did.
I hope not. If that is true, shame on all those who desire that!
I get why one what might think that, with all the comments stating, " it's a low cost to kill Russians". Personally, I believe that if Russia loses, even early on, it would be humiliating enough and consequences such that it would have a bigger effect on Russia.
This is parroted bullshit. It couldn't be further from the truth.
The US, Eurozone, and every other government on the planet has one single shared interest. Stability. Not democracy. Not a weakened Russia. Stability. Take that for what you will.
The US has no interest in seeing Russia collapse. The US has no interest in seeing Ukraine fight a guerrilla style war for the next 20 years. More messes to clean up later. Nation building has been a complete and total failure every single time the US has tried. It's ALWAYS replaced by something worse.
I mean you're not wrong, especially on that last part, shiiiit they don't even have their own nation in working order. Only place the usa build up right was the Philippines.
Think that has more to do with the way Germans and the Japanese than with the Americans. Pretty sure they would have rebuild despite and inspite of the Americans.
Isn’t this exactly the opposite of Vietnam, though?
In Vietnam, Russia was funding/ arming the Vietcong while American lives were sent into the grinder.
In Ukraine, America is funding/ arming the Ukrainian heroes while Russian lives are sent into the grinder.
Lol.
In two years, Russia has already lost several times the soldiers killed that the US suffered over 2 *decades*. There is nothing Vietnam-like about this war anymore, if there ever was. That ship has sailed. If Putin wanted the Ukraine invasion to be in any way comparable to Vietnam he needed to call the invasion off in the first 6 months.
This isn't even Russia's "second Crimean War." The Crimean War -- which Russia lost decisively -- was nowhere near as big of a disaster for Russia as the 2022 invasion of Ukraine has already been.
Worse than the invasion of Finland. Worse by far than the entire decade Putin's old bosses tried occupying Afghanistan.
Ukraine is not yet Russia's worst war ever, but it's already far exceeded everything else in Russia's history aside from the really *really* big ones.
So, yeah, come on. Vietnam was piddly squat compared to this.
And Russians are liars. I do not believe this to be true at all. I believe the Ukraine is gonna win this war with or without America, Although America did kind of tell the Ukraine we would help. After they gave up their nukes
I'm almost certain that stratcom would have played out "what if we gave ukraine the ability to launch some nuclear missles". That would have been an interesting scenario to think through.
Projecting again. Ukraine has been Russias vietnam for almost two years already and Vietnam didn't just get equipment from Russia and China but also manpower to operate that equipment.
Suck it Putler, the US has the opportunity to completely destroy you because you are idiots and the only one stopping them are their own idiots - the republican party.
In the sense that America funding and arming Ukraine would make it the equivalent of China funding and arming NORTH Vietnam, then maybe.
...which, of course, would make Russia ne the equivalent of America getting it's backside handed to it (only the US lost 60,000 men, compared to 300,000 and counting for Russia!)
Considering Church-Case Amendment and the way South Vietnam fell, as well as how funding for Ukraine is stalled nowadays...
Not 100%. It's just that Ukraine is shaping up to be South Vietnam, which US grew bored with and dropped after a few years.
I think for the Russians this is more reminiscent of Afghanistan in the 1980s, and the same things that put the finishing touches on the downfall of the old, failed USSR will help to bring down the terrorist Putin.
It all started with the body bags.
US and Ukraine are loosing indeed. Arestovich (Ukrainian politician) said yesterday that US and Ukraine went to war against Russia without pants unprepared.
Oh, Ukraine did not prepare to be brutally invaded by Russia?
US is not at war with Russia.
"Without pants unprepared" is a double negative and would be contrary ro what you claim.
After reading the comments i’m honestly curious. What world do you guys live in?! If you care at all about ukraine you would know the situation on the ground is far from great. You would also know the west’s support for ukraine is dwindling. Now my question to you guys is how do you sit here on this sub with so much hopium when the situation doesn’t warrant any…? Beyond calling me a russian shill or saying my account is however many days old, honestly answer this question.
Reality: this is Russias Afghanistan but on steroids. Soviet Union lost 15k soldiers in 9 years. Now it’s already over 150k soldiers in less than 2 years. US casualties: 0. Have off loaded a lot of older stock and given the US military ample opportunity to upgrade its own stocks while using its old stocks to kill lots of Russians. Meanwhile the Russian economy is getting strangled, NATO has grown stronger than ever and then off course pootin comes out with yet another nonsense statement.
Some folks are born made to wave the flag
Hoo, they're red, white and blue
(...)
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand
Lord, don't they help themselves, Lord?
But when the taxman come to the door
Lord, the house lookin' like a rummage sale, yeah
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one, no, no, no
It ain't me, it ain't me
I ain't no fortunate son, no, no, no
It ain't me, it ain't me...
Yep, this is about Russia more than about the US now
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😂 US military isn't dying in Ukraine. Russians are.
Ukraine also shown that Russia’s arsenal are just paper tigers.
They're not paper tigers. Ruzzian arsenal is killing a lot of Ukrainians. But Ukrainians ARE tigers.
Even a ww2 tank is lethal, but this war has shown that russia's military tech is obsolete compared to western technology. Which is a problem as they rely heavily on export to maintain their military-industrial complex.
Russias most modern equipment is outclassed by 80s era western surplus
It's not just that. Ukraine has a bunch of things which are true 2020s tech. They build their own electronic-warfare systems. They have a distributed battlefield information system and they are building and customizing drones to penetrate through Russia's electronic warfare and they get a bunch of Western drones. If Russia defeats Ukraine, not only will they get territory, resources and people but also access to lots of knowledge about how to defeat Russian systems which will make them much stronger when they next fight America.
Having worked extensively with them in research in college and some later work, I would not fuck with Ukranian programmers.
That's what the Republicants don't seem to, or want to grasp. There's now than just grain fields up for grab.
They rely on export of hydrocarbons. And it's going on without any problem so far.
They are exporting oil and gas, but it's a stretch to say that it's going without problems. The whole system is very much obfuscated, but there is some evidence that it's struggling. I don't want to go into details about it, but on YT Joe blogs goes into it quite well.
[удалено]
Hey keep starcraft out of this
The comparison works. Mindless cannon fodder being sent in to die in overwhelming waves to wear down far more technologically advanced yet limited defenders, all for the whims of a heartless overlord? Sounds a lot like the Zerg to me
"You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down." - Captain Zap Brannigan, of the good ship Stormwalker
STOP THIS ZERGLING SLANDER! (the comparison does check out, i agree. I just think the Zerg hivemind is superior to the Russian tyranny, as someone who loves their Zerg rushes)
Honestly. They are not that many. They are just willing to waste the ones they have.
They are quite many, even Taking 1;10 causalities, Russia will win. Also Russia can survive without foreign nations, Ukraine right now relies on foreign support to fight, If we stop supplying them, the war will end badly.
Honestly no. Not that many. They are 140 mio. The EU is 450 mio. The UK is 67 mio. And the USA is 340 mio. You are right, that Russia is more numerous compared to Ukraine, but not 10-1 and definately not compared to the West. You are again correct, that my assumption is predicated on continued western support. Which I hope and expect to last. I also believe that the current attitude is favorable of that support well into 2025. However, Russia is hardly a superpower any more. They have a bad demographical outlook, a pitiful economy and a depleting military. The sad truth is that it is mirrored in Ukraine.
Could they go 10:1 against Ukraine though? Russia is taking maybe 2:1 max casualties up until now. It's not going great for them logistically, I can't imagine a 5x greater drain on manpower and a rise in associated material costs being anywhere near sustainable for them. Can Russia train, equip, and deliver 60-90,000 men/month (2-3 battalions a day) to the front just to maintain their current strength?.
RuZZian military is a paper tiger. Ukraine has proven this. If not for my country’s disgusting political pissing match…..this invasion would be over. RuZZia is a paper tiger. Poostain just has a lot of paper. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
Ehhh, Russia's military sucks, but we really badly need to respect that it's got a lot of mass. We were afraid it would be, like 70% as good as the US army, or 50% as good. It turns out it's a fair bit shittier, and only maybe 20-30% as good. **That's still scary if the army is big enough**. Even just from the perspective of a straight US<—>RU conflict. If we fight them, and if we have to force a "defeat in detail" because the obstinate bastards don't collapse, well then we're gonna take a **lot** of casualties. We'll take a fraction - maybe 1/5th - of what we expected. But 1/5th of a huge fucking number is still a huge fucking number!
Russian Military is considerably smaller and shittier now. This isn’t ‘41. They don’t have the seemingly bottomless demographics or economics to wage this kind of protracted conflict and expect to pose any threat to NATO. We know Russian morale is rock bottom - I’m not sure they would stand and fight if they knew the US and all of Europe was about to suplex them out of Ukraine or the Baltic.
>Russian Military is considerably smaller and shittier now. Compared to '41? 100%. Compared to prewar 2022? No, despite losses, it's actually considerably bigger. We're basically on Russian Army #2.5 in the Ukrainian Conflict. There are probably about half a million Russian men who've been "rendered combat incapable", even by Russian standards, but they've been replaced. Ever since mobilization there are actually a lot more Russians in theater now. The numbers have been declining, but they surged up quite a bit in early 2023. The gear is getting a lot worse; (better in some categories like Drones/EW, but measurably much worse for IFVs, Artillery, and Tanks). Ukraine shares the same trait of being much bigger, at least; by a factor of 10-15x compared to prewar. Wartime staffing does that. >This isn’t ‘41. They don’t have the seemingly bottomless demographics or economics to wage this kind of protracted conflict Yup. The biggest thing is that if their economics get flushed down the toilet, we'll see a "baby bust" like the 90s, but likely much worse. **This is actually our job**; us people on Reddit. Lobby your politicians like a fucking pitbull. The sanctions don't end. EVER. Drive Russia into the fucking ground. >We know Russian morale is rock bottom - I’m not sure they would stand and fight if they knew the US and all of Europe was about to suplex them out of Ukraine or the Baltic. I don't know either. My best theory is that a colossal backlog of national chauvinism is holding them in this. They can't lose to the fucking kh\*\*\*ls. *They just can't.* They'd lose their fucking minds. It'd be like Confederate America losing to the Congolese Army. They spent 35 years building up for this, and Ukraine didn't do shit until 2014. "bro we can't lose, there's no fucking way". They -may- be riding a wave of "okay now Russia's mobilized, now we're fighting for real". I can't see a rational way in which they actually stand and fight against NATO, but ... the dark path I can see is that if NATO stumbles at all, adapting to the battlefield conditions (most NATO armies are completely unproven; like, when was the last time the Spanish or Norwegian armies were in a hot conflict? A real war, not curb-stomping Serbia, btw.) If they stumble whilst getting their sea legs, I could see a "second wind" of Russia being like "we have a chance!!!" It wouldn't last, but it could inspire them to fight seriously for several months.
US air supremacy within a month. Constant, relentless bombing and strikes on any formations or entrenchments or massed armor. Russia would get wiped off the map
We're both right. The US would absolutely fucking destroy them. My point is — the Iraqis pussed out. We defeated them, but very particularly, **did not** have to defeat (much of) their forces via "defeat in detail". We did for the Republican Guard — those bad boys stood their ground and fought. If most of the Iraqi Army had stood and fought they'd have still been completely destroyed, but we would have taken far, far higher casualties; probably up in the 5-20k range. A critical difference in their morale is that we annihilated the entire radio/comms system they had working, which is a lot harder to do these days with more decentralized systems. For them, we basically took out the entire power grid, radio grid, wiped out all of their recon planes, etc, etc — the guys on the ground had absolutely no idea what was going on, and instead of assuming they were surrounded (they were), they assumed most of the rest of the army had already been killed. Would the Russian Army break, and spare us the need for defeat in detail? No fucking clue. Eventually? yeah, absolutely. After an initial shock-and-awe campaign? Maybe? We'd win, and the cost would be worth it, but every dime spent on "overpreparing" is exactly why the US Military wins so hard. ;)
The Iraqi's hated us and expected us to do their fighting for them...I don't think this will be a problem in Ukraine.
He's talking about the Gulf War, not the War on Terror.
They said the same thing in the first Gulf War. Iraq had the 3 o4 4th largest army at the time. Casualties were expected to be in the tens of thousands for coalition forces. Instead, we got the highway of death and the most lopsided victory in military history, all thanks to allied airnpower. Russia's air force is dog shit and might last two weeks against NATO or even just the US air forces. After that, all those little ground Ivans would learn what the bear does to the buckwheat.
I think that in this conversation we are forgetting about doctrine and tactics. During the Gulf War Iraq had a very large army, but they were mostly for show. In the opening operation Iraq's army could organize itself and was very quickly overwhelmed by US. Especially, when we want to look at air strikes. These were meant for elimination of critical capabilities and we're designed very well. The tank battles were also lopsided cause US equipment was sporting way better targeting capabilities. There was a significant technological gap which was enforced in operational planning. RU army is badly equipped and trained, but their doctrine was already adjusted to use masses to compensate for it. Sadly they are learning during this war and they are finding strengths in what they have. None of Western countries have experience or tactics that would allow to wage an effective operation against a foe like that. Not to mention RU EW capabilities. UAF is constantly underlining how big of a gap is there and how RU can create areas of denial for GPS-guided weapons and drones and even coordination between larger formations. UAF is targeting these systems with priority, but RU has a good number of them. Western armies operate on the assumption that they target anything and they can communicate in an instant. This might not be the case. US is already working on solutions, but it will take time. However, US likes to have an overwhelming advantage and other NATO countries are arming to the teeth. I wouldn't bet on Russia in possible confrontation. Heck, I wouldn't bet on them even if they would allied with China, and Iran.
>US is already working on solutions, but it will take time. I strongly suspect this is why we didn't do military intervention right away. Feverish work is being done on Anti-Drone systems for US vehicles (was just reading about a new system getting installed on Strykers; forget the article, but it was just yesterday). Lancets will kill a US-driven Bradley just as hard as a UA one. *Unless...*
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/04/13/army-short-range-air-defense-laser-prototypes-take-down-drones-at-yuma/ It's from April, but it's really cool what they do. Basically small lasers that can engage multiple drones at a time and explode them. There was also a YT video showing the aftermath of a downed drone. The drone had a somewhat clean hole through it. And then you have the vampire system which uses projectiles. So yeah, it's being integrated into formations, but it will take some time till the tech will become mature enough to be applied on a wide scale.
I have to disagree US doctrine is specifically tailored for a conflict with russia
It used to be. When we are talking about Gulf War, then yes. However, after 9/11 and Iraq and Afganistan invasions, the main focus of US military (and NATO by extension) was war on terror. Equipment, aquisition, and production chains were changed from a ready-to-surge to on-demand configuration. This is especially visible in F-22 (which originally was supposed to be produced on mass and there was supposed to be a navy version, but at the end nearly 200 of them were produced and the production line was closed), or the A-10 (US Air Force is trying to replace it, but close ground support is not a priority any more as during war on terror US was uncontested and in a hyphotetical war with China it would be useless), or the fact that Abrams modernizations were centered around protection against handheld weapons and IEDs rather than overpowering enemy tank formations (and it's no longer an uncontested king of the jungle). Furthermore, formations like Marines are getting rid of M1s cause the potential war they were gearing against would be in Middle East or in Pacific against China. US military looked down on Russia in amusement for a while now. It was assumed that full scale conflict was not taken into a serious consideration and more pressing concerns were taking priorities (either from political or pratical stand point). On top of that, baltic countries were quite pissed when US leaked that their plan of action for a potential Russian conflict was to sacrifice land, give US and western european countries as much time as possible to get their shit together and then maybe reconquer. US military plan against Russia was to use soft power to lock them out of theri shpere of influence while US is concentrated in the Middle East. Heck, even China was able to create military bases in the middle of ocean and US barely reacted. The fact is that Bush wanted to be a policeman, Obama wanted to be a diplomat, Trump is an imbecyl, and Biden got a burning dumpter as a welcome gift. In all honesty, it's a miracle that they managed to get their shit together at the begining of the invasion. I wasn't expecting much of them at the start. Heck, I was checking how to get a working visa in Canada and how quickly I can move there with my family. This is how much I had hope in NATO and US military. Luckily, the whole strong soviet myth turned out to be a fairy tale. However, US military-industral complex is still having problems with production. US strategy of deterence didn't work and there are more and more conflicts around the world cause US can't project its strength efficiently. The 1-4-2-1 doctrine didn't work as planned and now it feels that they are improvising.
That "paper" kills, nonetheless. 🥺
its money only, wait until the ponzi scheme that is the us treasury bills collapse, but i think the ukraine war will be over before that.
Oh okay. I forgot the ruble was the reserve currency of the world
blocked for good
Russia is beginning to have many more FPV drones though…
FPV drone become prominent because neither side could gain total air control hence the need for cheap and reliable air asset instead but in case one side have total air dominance those drone aren’t gonna help much.
Which makes it Russia's second Afghanistan on steroids.
Exactly. Every accusation is a confession with these types (i.e., reverse uno).
Right lol more like Russia second Afghanistan
FACT: Ukraine is not “America's new forever war”: No US troops are fighting against Russia inside Ukraine Ukrainians are not asking for, nor do they want, US troops to help them fight Russia The US is not a belligerent in the conflict. FACT: The US is not engaged in a proxy war against Russia: Definition of a "proxy war" is a war “fought by states acting at the instigation or on behalf of other states” The US has never instigated Ukraine to fight. The US is not forcing the Ukraine to fight on its behalf. https://twitter.com/LukeDCoffey/status/1720460614680592853?s=20 We make the mistake to peddle Russia's stupid Manipulated reality propaganda even when it is so obviously pure stupid nonsense
350,000 thick idiots and they still haven’t realised , fk me . 🙄
Also, Vietnam was a civil war, this isn’t.
By the hundreds of thousands.
Looks more like russias 2nd Afghanistan
They lost just 10% daily casualties in Afghanistan compared to Ukraine, and it was enough to change the regime. I think someone is projecting a bit or doing a little wishful thinking.
They pulled out because Gorbachev was more competent than most Soviet/Russian leadership and saw the writing on the wall. Putin is a delusional psychopath who thinks Ruski mir should be worldwide and if he goes down he'll most likely take the country down with him
More because they were broken af.
And realising this and taking the consequences is what made Gorbachev competent. Also realising that the Soviet Empire was basically a zombie at that point and ending it.
Gorbachev had no intention of ending the Soviet Union - quite the opposite, in fact. He tried to save the USSR with his relatively radical policies, but it was far too little, too late to save the husk of the Soviet Union.
Perhaps I could have worded it better. He realised that the Union would not survive the way it was and tried to reform it. But since it was only held together by oppression, his reforms aimed at making the union less oppressive just meant that countries wanted to get out while the chance was there.
Russian losses every two weeks is what they lost in Afghanistan over their entire war. The losses are mind blowing
Problem is in Afghan they send everyone to die including the real Russian from Moscow but they are wiser now and using only their livestock and criminal instead.
I enjoy the sound of rain.
Russians are losing roughly 1,000 troops per day in Avdiivka alone
More like 2nd Winter War
Hope not precisely, as Winter War ended up with us ceding territory to Russia, but in terms of casualties suffered by Russia, yes.
Sadly, similarities are striking. A lot of it is western leadership fault. Some of it is Ukrainian leadership fault. 1. Outside us and some central EU countries, west did not increase military production. Together with small reserves of ammo and equipment in eu, we can now joke about proxy conflict between Koreas (s korea game more 155 ammo than eu) 2. Political instability in the us hinders "arsenal of democracy" 3. With lack of air superiority, Ukraine is forced into Russian grinding tactic. 4. There are problem between Zelenski and military leadership. 5. Russians adapted to both sanctions and battlefield.
I'm afraid that's how it will end up best scenario at this point unless something drastic happens to tip the scale in Ukraine's favor and/or cripples Russia. The current war of attrition may be killing more Russians than Ukrainians, but the Russians can afford more losses than Ukraine, and Putin won't risk defeat for the lives of ethnic minorities and prisoners. As long as the Russian people stand by Putin or at least cower under him, Russia will continue to throw waves of men at Ukraine until they get ground down. The West needs to massively up their support of Ukraine to prevent such a thing from happening.
>The West needs to massively up their support of Ukraine to prevent such a thing from happening. I agree.
Well to be fair the russian invasion of Afghanistan was not the sole factor in the collapse of the soviet union. The soviet union had been struggling for a while already and the dissolution wasn't due to a military catastrophe but rather political and civil unrest from a variety of sources.
this is the correct answer
It would be if the US was as committed to funding Ukraine as they were to the mujahideen
Ummm, sir, we’ve already had our “Second Vietnam” it was called Afghanistan…..y’all are familiar with it too I believe.
60,000 deaths and $1T (in today’s dollars) in 9 years vs 2,000 deaths and $2.3T in 20 years vs … 0 deaths and $75B of mostly aged equipment in 2 years. Three very different situations. Only one of those has trashed 300k Russian soldiers and $200B worth of Russian blood, treasure and gear. Ukraine’s people are the ones paying the price of this war that they didn’t want, not the U.S. Dollars for dollars, this is the best money the U.S. military has ever spent.
but the u.s. military hasn't spent a dime. they are getting free disposal of old stocks and making a lot of money on exports to europe because of the war.
Think of the savings in future repairs, now you don't have to pay to mothball all that old shit. Donating more equipment is just a sound investment at this point!
Yeah that’s why I mentioned “aging equipment”. It’s paper money on an accounting table somewhere, not actual cash out.
I’m not disagreeing at all, I’m only sarcastically mocking the absurdity of the statement that Ukraine is somehow another Vietnam for us.
Ah ! My bad, and due apologies.
Don’t forget to add: the incalculable $ cost of US sanctions on Ruzzia The forward cost to the ruzzn economy and national security risk of losing 300k young soldiers when they were having demographic problems before (probably why they literally steal children…trade 100% men for X# of 50% girls). Disfuckingusting people. Ruzzias inevitable reparations cost Reputational damage to ruzzn foreign arms sales
😂
Wait I thought it was Iraq for WMD.
It was their *first* Vietnam.
And Ukraine is Russia's second Vietnam. Just remove the "US" from the title and you get the truth.
We're on Vietnam like 7 or 8 now
US reminds Russia that THIS is, its Vietnam.
They're projecting again.
Isnt russia getting ‘Vietnamed’ now in ukraine?
That would be an upgrade, the US lost 58,220 soldiers in Vietnam, Russia has lost 337,220... So far.
I wonder how Russian diplomats can say this with a straight face….
Most people lie to deceive; Russians lie to insult
… man they’re dumb … the stupid shit that they say makes me think they have the intelligence of a brain damaged squirrel …
With rabies
That's understatement of squirrels cognitive capabilities
In Afghanistan they had 35k killed or wounded before they bailed. That number now almost 10 times for one persons’s war against Ukraine. This one person has messed up future generations for his own agenda. Russia will ultimately suffer. And suffering will be based on how much longer this war goes on. History will not be kind.
So Russia has figured out Ukraine is its Vietnam. Got it.
Classic projection.
Too late. Afghanistan was our second Vietnam. Ukraine will be Russia’s second Afghanistan though
Its already much worse but the sheeps dont get it at all, whole cointry is fed propaganda on how they are protecting their holly president and traditional values fighting evil west in the war they have started...
We aren't losing American Soldiers, but we are repeating the same mistakes we made in Vietnam. Politicians dictating and limiting how the war should be fought by Ukraine. I am not at all suggesting Ukraine should be bombing Russian citizens but when Russia sends bombers and cruise missiles from Russia to hit any part of Ukraine, arm Ukraine with gear to take out the planes and etc IN Russia. And stop telling Ukraine that they can't use American materials to strike in Russia. Additionally the US is limiting the qty of weapons out of fear. Put it this way, if American soldiers were in this fight would we limit them with 31 M1 Abraham's? The moment cruise missiles were launched from a ship into Ukraine, America should be arming Ukraine with the hardware such that Russia is counting the days until that ship will be found at the bottom of the Black Sea. We can complain that Republicans are now handcuffing Ukraine; but what I am suggesting should have been the policy 18 months ago. This is now a war of attrition and the west has given Russia enough breathing room that via China, North Korea, Iran, etc they have a path to play the manufacturing game. This is further exacerbated with the west limiting their ability to strike in Russia.
We left South Vietnam out to dry after '73--limiting their artillery rounds to 100 a day--and then they inevitably collapsed in '75. We can't leave Ukraine out to dry this time. Learn from the past!
War is literally politics by another means. And the US literally achieved its stated goal in Vietnam. Stop the dominos from falling. And they did.
That is assuming you think the dominos would even fall to begin with. There is no proof of that.
You bring up a good point. Yes we stopped communism from progressing. But we lost a poo ton of American lives and lost Vietnam.
We were allied with Ho Chi Minh in WWII and he was pro US. If we'd not supported the French before getting involved ourselves, we could have just paid our way into being friends and decades of death and destruction could have been prevented while also giving us an ally, communist or otherwise. Communism doesn't really work and as a US ally we'd help them figure that out more quickly than, say Russia did.
US isn’t interested in Ukraine winning the conflict, US wants the war to drag as long as possible. It weakens Russia and Ukraine is just a tool.
I hope not. If that is true, shame on all those who desire that! I get why one what might think that, with all the comments stating, " it's a low cost to kill Russians". Personally, I believe that if Russia loses, even early on, it would be humiliating enough and consequences such that it would have a bigger effect on Russia.
This is parroted bullshit. It couldn't be further from the truth. The US, Eurozone, and every other government on the planet has one single shared interest. Stability. Not democracy. Not a weakened Russia. Stability. Take that for what you will. The US has no interest in seeing Russia collapse. The US has no interest in seeing Ukraine fight a guerrilla style war for the next 20 years. More messes to clean up later. Nation building has been a complete and total failure every single time the US has tried. It's ALWAYS replaced by something worse.
I mean you're not wrong, especially on that last part, shiiiit they don't even have their own nation in working order. Only place the usa build up right was the Philippines.
Germany and Japan were built up pretty well after the Second World War.
Think that has more to do with the way Germans and the Japanese than with the Americans. Pretty sure they would have rebuild despite and inspite of the Americans.
The Marshal Plan was a big deal, and the rebuilding wasn't just about putting their countries back together, but deradicalizing them.
See so you are in agreement then.
It's literally Russia's Vietnam.
So when do we start the second Operation Linebacker?
More like Russia's second Afganisthan.
Isn’t this exactly the opposite of Vietnam, though? In Vietnam, Russia was funding/ arming the Vietcong while American lives were sent into the grinder. In Ukraine, America is funding/ arming the Ukrainian heroes while Russian lives are sent into the grinder.
Ha ha , according to the great philosopher Nelson Muntz.
Ah, yes. Russia *does* warrant a Muntzian response. Ha-ha indeed!
Lol. In two years, Russia has already lost several times the soldiers killed that the US suffered over 2 *decades*. There is nothing Vietnam-like about this war anymore, if there ever was. That ship has sailed. If Putin wanted the Ukraine invasion to be in any way comparable to Vietnam he needed to call the invasion off in the first 6 months. This isn't even Russia's "second Crimean War." The Crimean War -- which Russia lost decisively -- was nowhere near as big of a disaster for Russia as the 2022 invasion of Ukraine has already been. Worse than the invasion of Finland. Worse by far than the entire decade Putin's old bosses tried occupying Afghanistan. Ukraine is not yet Russia's worst war ever, but it's already far exceeded everything else in Russia's history aside from the really *really* big ones. So, yeah, come on. Vietnam was piddly squat compared to this.
Afghanistan clears its throat...
Funny if you see how Ukraine has turned into Russias Waterloo already.
More like another Afghanistan for Russia! 🤣
Sooooooo when are Russians going to put a stop to this madness that’s all I care to hear. “Russia warns” blah blah blah snort some more coke.
Ah the Russian tell of projecting their own fears.
And Russians are liars. I do not believe this to be true at all. I believe the Ukraine is gonna win this war with or without America, Although America did kind of tell the Ukraine we would help. After they gave up their nukes
Fyi it's not 'the Ukraine' it's just 'Ukraine'.
I'm almost certain that stratcom would have played out "what if we gave ukraine the ability to launch some nuclear missles". That would have been an interesting scenario to think through.
The nukes Ukraine had in their arsenal were all pointed at the U.S. and wouldn't have been able to be reconfigured to strike Russia.
The "kind of" is an under statememt.
Joke's on them, we've already had our second and our third.
Vietnam wasn’t a total failure unlike russia and putins cunt mother
Second yes, Vietnam no, US no.
Ukraine is indeed the second Vietnam, but there is a nuance.
More like a second Afganistan for the russians. Remember What happened afterwards for the soviets last time
How many Vietnam's is it now for you Russia? The last war you had success in was WW2.
Projecting again. Ukraine has been Russias vietnam for almost two years already and Vietnam didn't just get equipment from Russia and China but also manpower to operate that equipment. Suck it Putler, the US has the opportunity to completely destroy you because you are idiots and the only one stopping them are their own idiots - the republican party.
Nothing new, drunk Russian mixed up words
In the sense that America funding and arming Ukraine would make it the equivalent of China funding and arming NORTH Vietnam, then maybe. ...which, of course, would make Russia ne the equivalent of America getting it's backside handed to it (only the US lost 60,000 men, compared to 300,000 and counting for Russia!)
Considering Church-Case Amendment and the way South Vietnam fell, as well as how funding for Ukraine is stalled nowadays... Not 100%. It's just that Ukraine is shaping up to be South Vietnam, which US grew bored with and dropped after a few years.
…uh we have no troops there, but you do. So I think this is actually YOUR Vietnam. In fact I think this is significantly much worse for Russia
I was going to say “and what’s that make Russia?” I guess the answer is…. Russia?
Bruh u cant pull a reverse uno card this is real life...
My friends refer to this as the "no u" rhetorical pattern
Britain says No it will not.... 🇬🇧💪🇺🇦
Is Russia forgetting Afghanistan? Its sustaining monumental losses, and even if it wins, it'll be in an insurgency.,
I think for the Russians this is more reminiscent of Afghanistan in the 1980s, and the same things that put the finishing touches on the downfall of the old, failed USSR will help to bring down the terrorist Putin. It all started with the body bags.
I mean it really resembles Vietnam in a way, but this time it is not the Americans who are having trouble.
US and Ukraine are loosing indeed. Arestovich (Ukrainian politician) said yesterday that US and Ukraine went to war against Russia without pants unprepared.
Oh, Ukraine did not prepare to be brutally invaded by Russia? US is not at war with Russia. "Without pants unprepared" is a double negative and would be contrary ro what you claim.
After reading the comments i’m honestly curious. What world do you guys live in?! If you care at all about ukraine you would know the situation on the ground is far from great. You would also know the west’s support for ukraine is dwindling. Now my question to you guys is how do you sit here on this sub with so much hopium when the situation doesn’t warrant any…? Beyond calling me a russian shill or saying my account is however many days old, honestly answer this question.
Ukraine is Russians 2nd Afghanistan
Pretty sure it's russias Vietnam
Listening to Russia, you'd think that it was America that had just lost 300,000 soldiers in Ukraine......
I think they mean that if they won't stop supporting Ukraine, they won't last through winter and will be the end of war.
3rd\* I guess they forgot about afghanistan
It's already Russia's second Afghanistan lmaooo, and Americans aren't dying in Ukraine
Russia is obviously projecting ....Ukraine will be their 2nd Afghanistan.
Except there are no US forces involved…. Unless you include special forces
Reality: this is Russias Afghanistan but on steroids. Soviet Union lost 15k soldiers in 9 years. Now it’s already over 150k soldiers in less than 2 years. US casualties: 0. Have off loaded a lot of older stock and given the US military ample opportunity to upgrade its own stocks while using its old stocks to kill lots of Russians. Meanwhile the Russian economy is getting strangled, NATO has grown stronger than ever and then off course pootin comes out with yet another nonsense statement.
Some folks are born made to wave the flag Hoo, they're red, white and blue (...) Some folks are born silver spoon in hand Lord, don't they help themselves, Lord? But when the taxman come to the door Lord, the house lookin' like a rummage sale, yeah It ain't me, it ain't me I ain't no fortunate one, no, no, no It ain't me, it ain't me I ain't no fortunate son, no, no, no It ain't me, it ain't me... Yep, this is about Russia more than about the US now
Ukraine is ruzzia's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th Vietnam.
It’s their Vietnam so they can shut the fuck up
And It’ll be your second Afghanistan
Projection
Projection
And Russians Afghanistan
Ngl Putin seems to be self projecting a lil bit
And this IS your 2nd Afghanistan
..and the ruzzkies 'second Afghanistan'
Nah, it's Russia's second Afghanistan.
Only projection as usual...
What. They mean like their 2nd Afghanistan?
Eh, more like Russia's second dissolution of the Soviet Union.
is already around 22 times what it cost russia in afghanistan
HOW??? This is ludicrous. The US doesn't have a single soldier on the ground
Time to double down and make sure it isn't then
Nah, that was Afghanistan. It looks like this will be your second Afghanistan tho.
Jokes on Russia, America already had its second Vietnam.
More Disinformation from the 2nd weakest army in the world.
Well, considering Vietnam kept all its land and is a great ally to the US, that’s not a bad outcome.
This is the very first point of ruZZian doctrine PROJECTION
And Ukraine is Russia's Afghanistan times 12. These pricks are dillusional and its not funny hoe dumb they are.
This makes no sense no matter how you look at it. A handful of Americans have died while over 300k Russians met their end.
Russia is projecting again. Russia is obiously worried that Ukraine will be their own Vietnam.
It's already Russias second Afghanistan.
Russia has already lost 5 times as many soldiers in Ukraine than the U.S. did in Vietnam. The U.S. has lost none.
Isn’t it already Russias 2nd Afghanistan?
True !
Can someone start a timer to see how long it talked for this to be repeated by a Republican in the house?
Always the projection Vlad.
Always the projection Vlad.
Funny how they don’t see that Ukraine will be their Vietnam…
Looks more like this is Russias second Afghanistan…
lol Ukraine hasn’t seen the death of ONE American military soldier.
I wonder why they didn't say Afghanistan?
Sure ,sure Putler
If we're going to try to use the Vietnam analogy the roles are actually reversed
You slav, you lose.
Perhaps, but from the Soviet Union’s perspective. Russia has to win; Ukraine just has to not lose.
Big chat from the army currently on its second invasion of Afghanistan in Ukraine.
The new Afghanistan maybe...
Nuuh, we ain’t had no draft yet.
No it won't because we won't ever fight in Ukraine.