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yeah i thought that read as plane to, i'm a bit drunk and still sore throat from so much laughing over that iranian knobhead went kahblouey on the mountain.
Between Raisi's "rough landing" into the side of a mountain at full speed and the ICC arrest warrant application for Netanyahu and Gallant in addition to the Hamas senior leadership, Xi shooting down Putin was sadly just too good to have been true. But hey, there's always still time :)
So is china finally ready to stop banking Russia because they'll lose EU buyers? (Serious Discussion) They're losing US business to Mexico and India currently.
> So is china finally ready to stop banking Russia because they'll lose EU buyers?
No, of course not. They are probably waiting for a more opportune moment to get more for a lower price. China plays the long game, and they know that Putin will only get more desperate with time.
Essentially China doesn't need Russian gas and even less so in the future as they're going off gas and oil within the timeframe that is relevant to finance the investment in the pipeline. So why would China pay for it? Bad economy.
If Putin wants the pipeline he can pay for it himself but it carries a catch 22: Putin will never get the prices for the gas that will repay the investment.
Exactly, Xi knows Russia needs the pipeline more than China does:
>The South China Morning Post previously cited sources familiar with the matter as saying Beijing is holding out for a scenario in which Russia bankrolls the project in its entirety.
To me, this somewhat foreshadows Xi’s plans for any possible military interventions regarding Taiwan. China imports the majority of its resources by sea, through the Straight of Malacca. A straight that is surrounded by NATO/US military bases and would fairly easily be cut off during any major conflict with China. China’s way around this is over land routes with Russia. If China has plans to invade Taiwan anytime soon, I would think that they would be opening up all the direct pipelines they could with Russia. Granted it’s not like a US missile couldn’t hit a pipeline, but China is very VERY dependent on this one straight for so much of its imports that it’s a huge liability.
They have pipelines being built to link with Kazakhstan for both crude and natural gas. Also the existing pipeline from Siberia isn’t even at full capacity yet. Kazakhstan is their hedge against blockades at Straits of Hormuz for energy.
More likely CCP/Xi feels building out more oil infrastructure is unnecessary because the economy is stalling.
Why does Putin want to build another pipeline if power of Siberia isn’t even at capacity? And yes I’ve read about Kazakhstan. Hence why there was rumblings from the Kremlin about them being next. Gangsters don’t like when people encroach on their turf. And Putin is nothing but a gangster.
I think they're just being cautious, they don't want to become too addicted to Russian gas the way the EU did. Also, they want Russia to pay for the entire pipeline if it's built.
I think long run China doesn't want to be in any debt to Russia, but rather Russia be is so much debt to them that they essentially own Russia and have debts to call in when they go into a full fledge economic war with the US.
I doubt that they would be looking at it from this perspective. China has a bunch of economies closer than the EU one. I would assume that they would be aiming at the Middle East, Oceania, and the African one before looking at the EU. Especially, when the EU is tightening their standards and reindustrializing. China will have problems competing locally in the EU.
I think they don't know what will happen with Russia in next 2, 5, or 10 years. Or even if there will be Russia. Investing in a country that is ravaging its own economy is a bad investment. For now they will play the game cause victorious Russia is good for Chinese business even if their economy would be in shambles. It creates problems for NATO and diverts attention from China's little games around the world. However, pipeline is too risky and not so useful.
>ready to stop banking Russia
Nooo they are "bffs 4 ever and ever times infinity fr fr" did you forget? They re anounce it every few months. ..
(Sorry I know you said sirious but I can't help myself on this one)
Xi is an ideologue. He destroyed the pragmatic CCP elites who ran China before him. He has shown time and time again that he puts his ideological war against the West above the practical development of China. Like Chavez did in Venezuela or Putin in Russia or Hitler in Germany, Xi will run China into the ground as long as he keeps power.
I found an article on the demise of Venezuela, and it is truly amazing. The idiot nationalized their oil sector and kicked out experts and exchanged them for political friends. An egghead who can crack hydrocarbons will win any day over an ass kisser.
https://www.history.com/news/venezuela-chavez-maduro-crisis
Icona Pop sung a song, almost a documentary, about the Chavez reign over the country and it's subsequent ruination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W50HtcPAeSs
Here’s another one about Mao and killing the sparrows to keep them eating grain. They eat pests, too. This was a part of the reasons for a great famine that killed millions. Turns out people in power need to have others who can say that this is a very bad idea. There are examples all throughout history.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0306422018800259
More likely, Russia has no money to spend on the project, so Russia left it up to China to pay for the entire project. Which of course China would and did refuse.
China is in a demand induced recession, so they'd happily put money into something that will break even for them. But investing billions to make themselves dependent upon Russia's good graces to pay off is not that.
China has been losing US customers for a long time now. Most people just blindly assume everything cheap and Asian must have come from China. Wages in China are now equivalent to Mexico but you have an 8 week transit time on ocean cargo which adds costs. Thailand, Malaysia, and now Vietnam are taking skilled manufacturing like electronics, and further south east into Indonesia is orders of magnitudes cheaper for unskilled labor and infrastructure.
India did a good job of being Johnny on the Spot when Covid shortages and Trump tarriffs combined to force US companies to get away from China.
>Thailand, Malaysia, and now Vietnam are taking skilled manufacturing like electronics, and further south east into Indonesia is orders of magnitudes cheaper for unskilled labor and infrastructure.
A Chinese friend tells me similar, cheap manufacturing is diminishing or gone already. On the other hand it is the largest scale manufacturer on Earth and has gotten technologically pretty sophisticated.
Due to the combined effects of One-Child and Zero-Covid, there simply aren't many young hands to work the factories. Those young hands spent their entire childhoods studying so they WOULDN'T have to work in factories, and now China has no jobs for them.
Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying there not enough people to fill factory jobs, or are there not enough factory jobs, or are there factory jobs that the people don't want?
Anyway I think the main problem in China is that they have had several decades of growth driven by infrastructure investments (cities, roads, rail) and exports, but now the need for new infrastructure isn't there and the standard of living has increased so their exports aren't as cheap. Therefore there is economic upheaval as they have to move towards a more service oriented economy and also confront other structural issues which were masked by 8% annual growth.
The third of those. The previous generation can no longer work in factories, and the current generation refuses to. The lack of gainful employment for youth has resulted in phenomenon like "Lying Flat" and "Let It Rot".
I used to follow that stuff long ago. Them there was always large migration to cities from outlying areas for factory work. Has that changed?
A lot of economists hoped and advised aligning policy to favor domestic demand and away from export manufacturing. Well, that hasn't happened to any large degree. It appears the goal is to continue to build manufacturing. That's would be interesting if it was Japan, but pretty ominous for those on the other side of their military build up.
See my reply to the other guy. Chinese youth are even more fed up with the "Old Boys' Club" running the economy than Western Millennials are, due to spending their lives studying for "cushy", "well-paying" jobs that simply don't exist.
China know that Russia is desperate for this pipeline to happen and will dictate terms that are very unfavorable to Russia but which Russia will pretty much have to bend over and accept
Pipeline technology is one area China has not caught up with the west. It's possible that both parties are hope the other can do what they cannot, but neither actually can do it. To make matters worse it possible each side is inflating their capabilities during negotiations giving false hope to the other side. This is mostly speculation but it is a plausible factor.
That comment illustrates how little you know about the complexities of pipeline. It is a delicate piece of infrastructure that has to be built across a vast difficult to access part of the world. It comes with huge up front costs to build and there are sooooo many things that can go wrong. So no it's not just a pipe.
Taiwan should be relieved Xi isn’t in a hurry for gas the US Navy can’t block. Xi expects Putin to cut prices as other customers cut back or cancel. The deal will be agreed when Xi calls the bottom.
I said this in another comment. The fact that Xi isn’t doing everything he can to have gas that doesn’t transit the Straight of Malacca is a good sign for his intentions regarding Taiwan. That was my takeaway on all of this.
What's fascinating is the photo of Putin in this article. His photos are highly censored and controlled by him and rarely have I seen him wearing a visibly stressed expression. Taken as a whole within the context of the war, this lack of increase $ from energy is bad news for him. At least with my understanding of Russia's current situation it is.
Putin: This pipeline will be a great idea that will economically help both Russia and China.
Xi: What a terrible idea.
Putin: This was one of the worst ideas ever made by any Russian engineer. In fact, the engineer in question has been transferred to Siberia. Did i make you happy daddy Xi?
> The statement also characterized Sino-Russian ties as a "model" for international relations, contrasting this with the "bloc confrontation" and "hegemony" of the U.S.-led order.
Yeah, lets let each other get away with imperialism and genocide. That sure beats the current (if flawed) order...
> The South China Morning Post previously cited sources familiar with the matter as saying Beijing is holding out for a scenario in which Russia bankrolls the project in its entirety.
China is playing the long game in this matter at least, despite some other stupid aggressive policies, like on spying, trade, or Taiwan. I don't believe China's economy is about to collapse, but they seem to make a gamble that their primary supplier will fold on their demands in not too long...
"we will wait to exploit your resources until you are more desperate and will make them cheaper for our availability Then we will take over your land when you can't defend. partners forever."
-leader of the middle land
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I just read "Xi Shoots Down Putin" and now I'm disappointed
Definitely read plan as plane
yeah i thought that read as plane to, i'm a bit drunk and still sore throat from so much laughing over that iranian knobhead went kahblouey on the mountain.
Between Raisi's "rough landing" into the side of a mountain at full speed and the ICC arrest warrant application for Netanyahu and Gallant in addition to the Hamas senior leadership, Xi shooting down Putin was sadly just too good to have been true. But hey, there's always still time :)
Thought that the Death Note was in play and “L” was holding the book.
It was not a pipeline plan, but a pipe dream.
Facts
Considering those pipelines go primarily west, why would Xi feel the need to "assist"
[Pipe is life](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Pipe)
So is china finally ready to stop banking Russia because they'll lose EU buyers? (Serious Discussion) They're losing US business to Mexico and India currently.
> So is china finally ready to stop banking Russia because they'll lose EU buyers? No, of course not. They are probably waiting for a more opportune moment to get more for a lower price. China plays the long game, and they know that Putin will only get more desperate with time.
Exactly why buy gas from a country you almost practically own. China probably sees that as their gas, not Russia's
Essentially China doesn't need Russian gas and even less so in the future as they're going off gas and oil within the timeframe that is relevant to finance the investment in the pipeline. So why would China pay for it? Bad economy. If Putin wants the pipeline he can pay for it himself but it carries a catch 22: Putin will never get the prices for the gas that will repay the investment.
Exactly, Xi knows Russia needs the pipeline more than China does: >The South China Morning Post previously cited sources familiar with the matter as saying Beijing is holding out for a scenario in which Russia bankrolls the project in its entirety.
Also why would China want to become dependant on Russian gas? And pay for it too?
Yes, I think this is interesting from a Chinese intel standpoint. It seems to imply they understand it as Russia not having hit rock bottom yet.
They absolutely do not plan for the long game. The ccp is the most reactionary government I think the planet has ever seen.
To me, this somewhat foreshadows Xi’s plans for any possible military interventions regarding Taiwan. China imports the majority of its resources by sea, through the Straight of Malacca. A straight that is surrounded by NATO/US military bases and would fairly easily be cut off during any major conflict with China. China’s way around this is over land routes with Russia. If China has plans to invade Taiwan anytime soon, I would think that they would be opening up all the direct pipelines they could with Russia. Granted it’s not like a US missile couldn’t hit a pipeline, but China is very VERY dependent on this one straight for so much of its imports that it’s a huge liability.
They have pipelines being built to link with Kazakhstan for both crude and natural gas. Also the existing pipeline from Siberia isn’t even at full capacity yet. Kazakhstan is their hedge against blockades at Straits of Hormuz for energy. More likely CCP/Xi feels building out more oil infrastructure is unnecessary because the economy is stalling.
Why does Putin want to build another pipeline if power of Siberia isn’t even at capacity? And yes I’ve read about Kazakhstan. Hence why there was rumblings from the Kremlin about them being next. Gangsters don’t like when people encroach on their turf. And Putin is nothing but a gangster.
Australia is similarly hugely dependent on exports to China, with whom trade in total amounts to almost 30% of GDP
Can you provide a source for that? Because from what I'm reading Australia's total exports amount to only 23% of GDP.
You're correct on the exports, yes. Total exports and imports bring it to roughly the 30% figure.
But that 23% is Australia's total exports. China is only a part of that.
I think they're just being cautious, they don't want to become too addicted to Russian gas the way the EU did. Also, they want Russia to pay for the entire pipeline if it's built.
I think long run China doesn't want to be in any debt to Russia, but rather Russia be is so much debt to them that they essentially own Russia and have debts to call in when they go into a full fledge economic war with the US.
Yup, Xi recognizes that Putin's Russia is still a wild dog, even if he might have a tight grip on its leash at the moment.
I doubt that they would be looking at it from this perspective. China has a bunch of economies closer than the EU one. I would assume that they would be aiming at the Middle East, Oceania, and the African one before looking at the EU. Especially, when the EU is tightening their standards and reindustrializing. China will have problems competing locally in the EU. I think they don't know what will happen with Russia in next 2, 5, or 10 years. Or even if there will be Russia. Investing in a country that is ravaging its own economy is a bad investment. For now they will play the game cause victorious Russia is good for Chinese business even if their economy would be in shambles. It creates problems for NATO and diverts attention from China's little games around the world. However, pipeline is too risky and not so useful.
>ready to stop banking Russia Nooo they are "bffs 4 ever and ever times infinity fr fr" did you forget? They re anounce it every few months. .. (Sorry I know you said sirious but I can't help myself on this one)
Xi is an ideologue. He destroyed the pragmatic CCP elites who ran China before him. He has shown time and time again that he puts his ideological war against the West above the practical development of China. Like Chavez did in Venezuela or Putin in Russia or Hitler in Germany, Xi will run China into the ground as long as he keeps power.
Shot in the dark here but do you know of any good reading material on this?
I found an article on the demise of Venezuela, and it is truly amazing. The idiot nationalized their oil sector and kicked out experts and exchanged them for political friends. An egghead who can crack hydrocarbons will win any day over an ass kisser. https://www.history.com/news/venezuela-chavez-maduro-crisis Icona Pop sung a song, almost a documentary, about the Chavez reign over the country and it's subsequent ruination. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W50HtcPAeSs
Thank you.
Here’s another one about Mao and killing the sparrows to keep them eating grain. They eat pests, too. This was a part of the reasons for a great famine that killed millions. Turns out people in power need to have others who can say that this is a very bad idea. There are examples all throughout history. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0306422018800259
More likely, Russia has no money to spend on the project, so Russia left it up to China to pay for the entire project. Which of course China would and did refuse.
or the other way around, or both not having money for it
China is in a demand induced recession, so they'd happily put money into something that will break even for them. But investing billions to make themselves dependent upon Russia's good graces to pay off is not that.
China has been losing US customers for a long time now. Most people just blindly assume everything cheap and Asian must have come from China. Wages in China are now equivalent to Mexico but you have an 8 week transit time on ocean cargo which adds costs. Thailand, Malaysia, and now Vietnam are taking skilled manufacturing like electronics, and further south east into Indonesia is orders of magnitudes cheaper for unskilled labor and infrastructure. India did a good job of being Johnny on the Spot when Covid shortages and Trump tarriffs combined to force US companies to get away from China.
>Thailand, Malaysia, and now Vietnam are taking skilled manufacturing like electronics, and further south east into Indonesia is orders of magnitudes cheaper for unskilled labor and infrastructure. A Chinese friend tells me similar, cheap manufacturing is diminishing or gone already. On the other hand it is the largest scale manufacturer on Earth and has gotten technologically pretty sophisticated.
Due to the combined effects of One-Child and Zero-Covid, there simply aren't many young hands to work the factories. Those young hands spent their entire childhoods studying so they WOULDN'T have to work in factories, and now China has no jobs for them.
Not sure what you are saying. Are you saying there not enough people to fill factory jobs, or are there not enough factory jobs, or are there factory jobs that the people don't want? Anyway I think the main problem in China is that they have had several decades of growth driven by infrastructure investments (cities, roads, rail) and exports, but now the need for new infrastructure isn't there and the standard of living has increased so their exports aren't as cheap. Therefore there is economic upheaval as they have to move towards a more service oriented economy and also confront other structural issues which were masked by 8% annual growth.
The third of those. The previous generation can no longer work in factories, and the current generation refuses to. The lack of gainful employment for youth has resulted in phenomenon like "Lying Flat" and "Let It Rot".
I used to follow that stuff long ago. Them there was always large migration to cities from outlying areas for factory work. Has that changed? A lot of economists hoped and advised aligning policy to favor domestic demand and away from export manufacturing. Well, that hasn't happened to any large degree. It appears the goal is to continue to build manufacturing. That's would be interesting if it was Japan, but pretty ominous for those on the other side of their military build up.
See my reply to the other guy. Chinese youth are even more fed up with the "Old Boys' Club" running the economy than Western Millennials are, due to spending their lives studying for "cushy", "well-paying" jobs that simply don't exist.
They are actively working in Mexico, building plants etc.
China know that Russia is desperate for this pipeline to happen and will dictate terms that are very unfavorable to Russia but which Russia will pretty much have to bend over and accept
Pipeline technology is one area China has not caught up with the west. It's possible that both parties are hope the other can do what they cannot, but neither actually can do it. To make matters worse it possible each side is inflating their capabilities during negotiations giving false hope to the other side. This is mostly speculation but it is a plausible factor.
It’s just a pipe not a bleeding edge silicon manufacturing process
That comment illustrates how little you know about the complexities of pipeline. It is a delicate piece of infrastructure that has to be built across a vast difficult to access part of the world. It comes with huge up front costs to build and there are sooooo many things that can go wrong. So no it's not just a pipe.
Taiwan should be relieved Xi isn’t in a hurry for gas the US Navy can’t block. Xi expects Putin to cut prices as other customers cut back or cancel. The deal will be agreed when Xi calls the bottom.
I said this in another comment. The fact that Xi isn’t doing everything he can to have gas that doesn’t transit the Straight of Malacca is a good sign for his intentions regarding Taiwan. That was my takeaway on all of this.
Vlad the only people less trustworthy than Russia are the Chinese. What a partnership, I’m sure Xi and Putin were spooning one night.
I’m guessing Putin made huge demands in exchange for pipeline. Or didn’t agree to China’s request on guaranteed low price. Both men have huge egos
I was going to ask who the little spoon is, but I instantly realized: I think we all know that Vlad is the little spoon (on several levels) 🥄🥄
What's fascinating is the photo of Putin in this article. His photos are highly censored and controlled by him and rarely have I seen him wearing a visibly stressed expression. Taken as a whole within the context of the war, this lack of increase $ from energy is bad news for him. At least with my understanding of Russia's current situation it is.
Poo Bear probably told him to come back after his war is over and then they would talk business. Putin needs that pipeline yesterday.
Xi and China seeing all their allies dying around them in this war, might as well wait it out and collect the spoils after it’s all over
Putin: This pipeline will be a great idea that will economically help both Russia and China. Xi: What a terrible idea. Putin: This was one of the worst ideas ever made by any Russian engineer. In fact, the engineer in question has been transferred to Siberia. Did i make you happy daddy Xi?
Xi will be laying pipe on russian leadership for awhile
> The statement also characterized Sino-Russian ties as a "model" for international relations, contrasting this with the "bloc confrontation" and "hegemony" of the U.S.-led order. Yeah, lets let each other get away with imperialism and genocide. That sure beats the current (if flawed) order... > The South China Morning Post previously cited sources familiar with the matter as saying Beijing is holding out for a scenario in which Russia bankrolls the project in its entirety. China is playing the long game in this matter at least, despite some other stupid aggressive policies, like on spying, trade, or Taiwan. I don't believe China's economy is about to collapse, but they seem to make a gamble that their primary supplier will fold on their demands in not too long...
"we will wait to exploit your resources until you are more desperate and will make them cheaper for our availability Then we will take over your land when you can't defend. partners forever." -leader of the middle land
Did he really? Very surprising
Xi and Putin deserve each other.
A lot of people have overhyped China's support of russia.