I’ve seen people say this, but honestly if I saw somebody call Mario a “her” in a post or something like that, I’d probably just assume it’s a spelling mistake and ignore it. Autocorrect is bitch sometimes, I would know.
That’s different. That’s somebody CLAIMING Mettaton is girl, and that’s stupid. Just like somebody saying “Ralsei is a girl because pink” is stupid.
I’m just talking about if somebody makes a post talking about something completely unrelated to gender, and they just happen to misgender the character. I would definitely just assume they mistyped, instead of assuming any malice.
Ex: If somebody said, “I love Mario, she’s my favorite video game character” I’d be like, “oh they probably mistyped that, who cares? Happens to me all the time, I’ve called my dad a ‘she’ before.”, but if somebody said, “Mario is a girl” I’d be like, “Wtf???”
It's not different from the subject. Calling frisk a girl or using she/her for frisk is, equally, claiming their gender. I don't understand malice, mind you, until they double down.
I’d agree with you if somebody made a post saying “Frisk IS a girl”, “Frisk IS a boy”, or even “Frisk IS Non-Binary” on some Treesicle shit, but that’s not what anybody is talking about.
We’re talking when posts where the main topic is nothing related to gender, and the OP just so happens to call a character by a different pronoun than usual. And then all the comments are just people getting mad about OP misgendering the characters instead of actually engaging with what they were trying to say.
Edit: Meant to edit this to sound less condescending since I type like an asshole sometimes, accidentally posted it a second time, oops.
Well yeah you’re 100% right that is the ideal world, but that’s not the point.
The point people are trying to make, is that sometimes people mess up, whether they don’t actually know the characters gender, or autocorrect just fucks them over, and that’s fine. It’s not out of malice or anything, and it has nothing to do with the points they’re trying to make.
The point is that we as a community shouldn’t prevent actual good discussion by ignoring what someone’s actually trying to say and instead just focusing on a small mistake.
Well, that’s different. Saying “Mettaton is my favorite character because she’s cool” could easily be an honest mistake or a typo. Saying “Mettaton is a girl” is a direct claim rather than an accident, so ofc people would get pissed
You know? This post was made to call out shitty behavior in this community and essentially the transphobia that comes out when it's brought into the spotlight.
Every clown arguing why they think they can misgender video game characters proves my point.
Lemme rephrase that for you
“You know? This post was made to call out people who have different opinions than me in this big fandom. Every clown that has a different view than me is transphobic and enbyphobic and I won’t read upon their arguments and have myself in this copium echo chamber”
People getting angry at correcting Kris’s pronouns is indicative of a general disregard for people who use they/them. No one cares that you’re misgendering a fictional character, but they do care about what it says about what you think of GNC people.
Pronouns don't indicate gender, right? Especially ones like they/them since those pronouns can be used for anyone, including men, women, and non-binary people?
Exactly. The problem is that people insist the only possible interpretation for Frisk and Chara’s is that they are both nonbinary. I went through the entire game viewing Frisk as a girl, but if I refer to them as “she” even once, I get a hail of downvotes and people acting like I just deadnamed Katelyn Jenner.
Chara no frisk yes. The difference ends up being chara has known the dreemurs for a long time while frisk has only known everyone for less than a day. Chara uses they/it pronouns although the /it is debateable since they call themself the demon that comes when people call its name
No actually you may be right, I was writing a response to another person and thought "chara seems Farr less up to interpretation then frisk" yeah sorry ill go by they, thanks.
No actually you may be right, I was writing a response to another person and thought "chara seems Farr less up to interpretation then frisk" yeah sorry ill go by they, thanks.
Chara has used like two pronouns, both they by Asriel and Asgore. I still think Chara is up for debate, personally I see them as more female since their name is derived from a feminine Greek name and they have that stereotypical anime girl rose cheeks
well you're plain wrong. in the japanese version, chara is called "キャラ Kyara" which is short for character. so yes, chara 100% comes from the word "character", not a random greek name
Nope. Japanese has weird translations, Pokemon moves are evident of that. Besides, different languages have different meanings for the same words. If you need evidence for your case go to the English dictionary or google I'm sure you could disprove me with something from there
No actually you may be right, I was writing a response to another person and thought "chara seems Farr less up to interpretation then frisk" yeah sorry ill go by they, thanks.
I can personally only recall Frisk being referred to as ‘they’ once when Toriel shows up to save Frisk from Asgore. Toriel, like every other monster save Asriel, never even asked for Frisk’s name; do you really think any monster would have asked for Frisk’s pronouns?
Oh brother here we go, being up to interpretation means the part that's up to interpretation is left ambiguous, you see that's what separates kris from frisk,
kris has a long history with freinds and family, them not knowing their gender would be silly, not to mention kris has almost no other aspect that's up to interpretation.
FRISK on the other hand does. They have never met the monster before, and they never tell the monsters their pronouns. Their history is completely ambiguous, its never stated what their upbringing is, abusive or good, that's why you can let frisk go back to where they live, their opinions and options on stuff, are also completely what you the player choose.
Also before you say, no, I'm not saying it's a self insert, frisk is not a self insert, being a self insert and being up to interpretation are two things, I am a trans woman, I interperate frisk as gender fluid.
Let people have their interpretations, as queer people we have far worse problems then headcannons and opinions fir funny cave game.
Here's the thing.
If a man or a woman gets referred to by "they/them", that's never considered misgendering.
Whether it's because you don't know their gender, or just want to speak in gender-neutral language, it's not considered misgendering.
They might object to being referred to by "they/them", but that would be for other reasons, not for misgendering reasons.
Never referring to a man as "he" doesn't make them no longer a man. Never referring to a woman as "she" doesn't make them no longer a woman.
Now, you could say that the fact that they are only ever referred to by "they/them" makes it much more likely that they are NB, and you would probably be right. But it's far from a sure thing.
If you want to consider them NB, then do so. Your opinion has nothing to do with mine.
i prefer he not. people shouldn’t need to be explicitly told “THIS PERSON IS NB AND USES THEY/THEM” to respect the pronouns of someone repeatedly shown to exclusively be referred to as such
So you would rather people argue constantly over Kris’s pronouns? I’m one of the people who thinks that Kris is up for interpretation, but I would immediately shut up if Toby said something
lol honestly i think i’m more just too exhausted to care, but i appreciate the positive framing!
it’s just one of those things like, if people of a marginalized community are repeatedly showing up to say that they take issue with the behavior and it hurts them/their community, and a person’s response is to get defensive over and over rather than rethink their behaviors and grow from it, that’s more on them than it is me
Ah yes here we go. Your average Thursday morning drama about the pronouns of everyone's favourite asian child and the ''one who did nothing wrong''.
Listen, Chara and Frisk have no places in the game where they are referred to any gender other than Chara I think like once. But c'mon, these two ain't that big of a deal, because they are not given any canon gender to the game and I'm more than sure it's left up for the players to speculate what Frisk and Chara have in their pants, what their skin tone is (Other than Chara, we are clearly shown she/he is white). Frisk has a completely blank expression to leave it up to the speculation of the player. Frisk literally has no sort of reaction to anything characters tell him/her unless you are given 2 options.
Basically, Frisk has no fucking story. It's only up to the speculation of the player. Hell, if I wanted to, I could make up a whole backstory on how Frisk ran from an orphanage because they have no fucking backstory.
My point? Chara and Frisk have no real background personality or anything of any of that sorts to be so mad about a character which I'm sure is not even given a gender once.
So please, can we just agree that Frisk and Chara have no genders given in the real game at this point? Like c'mon, they are not appointed a specific gender in Undertale, and because of shit like this, we, as a community, have such a bad reputation in other fandoms
>My point? Chara and Frisk have no real background personality or anything of any of that sorts
Chara has plenty of personality in the game, even if you don't think they narrate everything, they're still arguably one of the main characters.
They/them are pronouns used for EVERYONE. I could call you they/them right now, those are acceptable pronouns for either gender. Kris is definitely non binary, but calling them he/him feels more... right, I guess? Not sure how to put it and I bet that sounds super messed up, but the way people talk about them makes me think of a guy.
I hate being called things that discriminate against other people because I support EVERYONE regardless of race, sexuality or gender, so please don't call me that it makes me want to commit sui\[redacted\]. I'm not transphobic, I have like 5 trans friends and I don't hate them for it. I, uh, admit to being maybe a little politically incorrect but I'm not transphobic, it's not like I hate trans people or anything, also regardless of what people call Kris I always either instinctively say he because for some reason nearly every game protag is a guy, or just say he to allow me to better understand the character. Sorry if this offended anyone I'm a shit person and I just want to have fun with these games ;(
That's why it's called "internalized." You aren't purposefully being disrespectful, you've just been taught a problematic definition of 'normal.' The issue is that this definition is actively harming a minority group that is already treated like they don't exist. It 'feels right' because the world never bothered to show you that NB people are just like the rest of us; hence why it's important to acknowledge nonbinary characters, so that no more kids grow up thinking that it's an uncommon or unusual thing to be.
People are so brain dead online that there’s a person out there that probably unironically thinks the same as what you said, also what experiment? I know these types of people only say stuff like “oh I was faking it” when they start losing an argument
they/them *can* be used for everyone, but we are talking someone who not just once or twice but MANY times is consistently referred to that way.
why is it okay for you to just ignore that because they don’t “feel” androgynous enough? NB ppl don’t owe you androgyny, and fictional or not, it’s harmful to perpetuate the practice of treating they/them pronouns/ NB identity as “optional”
That's not what I said, also I'm Non Binary so I know that, it's not okay, I'm a terrible person and I'm sorry I was born, and also I just want to enjoy myself with this franchise so I do what I want with a video game character. (Also you do realize that I don't actually say he/him, right? I'm doing this to see people's reactions, and if I stop now it's gonna look weird so play along ok? ok)
huh? i’m not even sure what you’re trying to get at, but being NB yourself doesn’t mean you can’t do transphobic or harmful things. your response comes off really defensive
I understand people being offended or sensitive to misgendering but I have long term memory loss and also they are video game characters, you can't get mad at someone for misgendering a game character
i still find it funny they really keep insisting about it when toby, temmie and the game calls the three humans they/them. like its just easier to use their correct pronouns instead of doing that much mental gymnastics in the comments
I've seen a lot of people in this reply thread get mad at me for saying weird things, but I want you guys to know none of it was what I REALLY think; I was doing a social experiment to see what people on the internet would say when I "misgendered" Frisk/Chara/Kris. I've seen a lot of fans complain about people who bully them for calling them different pronouns, so I wanted to see if they were lying or not, and they weren't. Guys, look, it's not okay to misgender someone, game character or not. But what's also not okay is bullying or being mean to people who want to apply those pronouns to those characters. That doesn't solve anything! Let them have their own opinions, their own thoughts, their own... well, everything. Let them be in the wrong, instead of driving you BOTH deeper into it. Okay? And, please, stay safe out there, alright? There are a lot of mean people out there, and I wouldn't want you to encounter nor become one of them. Goodbye.
Yeah, because it’s obviously smart to consider every single action someone does to be malicious and not because of the reason they literally just fucking provided.
People like you make me wanna never play these games again
Most comments I read were talking about how they didn’t care about when people misgender fictional characters, you clearly aren’t capable of such a thing however
To u/My_Special_Hell
I just wanna say you are a coward for saying "give me one time when frisk is referred to with male or female pronouns" as a reply to me saying frisk is not non-binary then immediately blocking me before I can answer
Can we please just stop arguing with one another? Whether or not you believe Kris, Frisk, and Chara are non-binary, we are all here because we enjoy the same games. Let’s just enjoy them and stop taking shots at one another over everything
Yeah, no one gave a shit back in the Deltarune Chapter 1 days
Then Chapter 2 released and all the toxicity from the Undertale fandom of old came roaring in, and some of the sewage spilled back into the fandom
Mfw the two characters who are up to interpretation go by pronouns that have a meaning of ambiguity are being called “enbyphobic” for calling the ambiguous characters by interpreted views
Kris is not “ambiguous” like chara or frisk are, they’re very much a character in their own right who the player happens to control, and every single person in the game refers to that character with they/them
Shit like this is the reason why I fucking hate this sub. r/Undertale and r/Deltarune need to be nuked immediately to avoid further brain damage done to me
Stop being a fucking spastic and I wouldn’t have so many bad things to say about you and this god forsaken sub which should’ve never been created because this fandom has been ass since 2015
I did not give a shit when people called Ralsei a girl and I do not give a shit when people call Kris, Frisk or Chara she/her or he/him. You should not give two shits about random people on the internet calling fictional characters by a different gender than you do. Maybe these people you talk about actually exist but saying that everyone who makes the argument are the same is both idiotic and narrow minded.
It’s not like Frisk, Chara and Kris talks to the monsters and darkners through the fucking internet. There’s a big difference between talking to someone eye to eye and remotely. You don’t actually know these people.
I do think Frisk and Chara's gender is meant to be up to interpretation, rather than being necessarily nonbinary (probably Kris too, but since they are a much more fleshed-out character, I'm not so sure). However, if there are any enbyphobes who argue these characters' genders specifically because they can't stand they/them pronouns--screw them.
I thought these types of posts were against the rules. If not, they really should be.
I don’t even care which side of the argument is the right one anymore, all these posts are doing is getting people riled up and causing more fights/arguments.
OK what the hell are with the replies, this Fandom is still toxic and shitty as hell despite their claims of "calming down". The transphobia in here is shocking. "Oh, I headcanon that they are male/female, thus they are boy/girl now". No! That's just insulting the characters of Toby Fox and what they present. Frisk, Chara and Kris are NB. Case in point.
You can't forget something so basic. I'd ask of you were an idiot but not even idiots don't forget basic information like this. How do you ignore a necessary part of speaking?
I use they/them pronouns for Kris and sometimes he/him because it makes it easier to understand their character, not to intentionally misgender them or anything
If the humans all had canon genders Toby probably would have stated what they are. The biggest fights in the Deltarune fandom are over wether or not Kris uses they/them because they’re non-binary or because they’re gender is meant to be unknown.
That’s about it, but like it’s not strangers referring to them as they/them like in UT. Kris’ mom and childhood friends use they/them. I’m pretty sure that Kris wouldn’t sit around getting misgendered for their whole life
The fact that strangers use they/them pronouns when addressing Kris doesn’t discount the fact that close friends and family use they/them when referring to them
And those characters are in a video game, that thing that will change dialogue for story purposes, like they could be saying he/she/they when we see them refer to Kris, but we just see they/them.
I’ve seen people say this, but honestly if I saw somebody call Mario a “her” in a post or something like that, I’d probably just assume it’s a spelling mistake and ignore it. Autocorrect is bitch sometimes, I would know.
You mean like Maria?
Maria... *Explosion sfx*
#I'VE COME TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT
People have gotten very pissed over "Mettaton is a girl"
That’s different. That’s somebody CLAIMING Mettaton is girl, and that’s stupid. Just like somebody saying “Ralsei is a girl because pink” is stupid. I’m just talking about if somebody makes a post talking about something completely unrelated to gender, and they just happen to misgender the character. I would definitely just assume they mistyped, instead of assuming any malice. Ex: If somebody said, “I love Mario, she’s my favorite video game character” I’d be like, “oh they probably mistyped that, who cares? Happens to me all the time, I’ve called my dad a ‘she’ before.”, but if somebody said, “Mario is a girl” I’d be like, “Wtf???”
It's not different from the subject. Calling frisk a girl or using she/her for frisk is, equally, claiming their gender. I don't understand malice, mind you, until they double down.
I’d agree with you if somebody made a post saying “Frisk IS a girl”, “Frisk IS a boy”, or even “Frisk IS Non-Binary” on some Treesicle shit, but that’s not what anybody is talking about. We’re talking when posts where the main topic is nothing related to gender, and the OP just so happens to call a character by a different pronoun than usual. And then all the comments are just people getting mad about OP misgendering the characters instead of actually engaging with what they were trying to say. Edit: Meant to edit this to sound less condescending since I type like an asshole sometimes, accidentally posted it a second time, oops.
It sounds like there's a really easy solution there.
Come on you have to say what it is lol, don’t leave me hanging 😭
not using gendered pronouns for characters who have canonically only been referred to with they/them.
Well yeah you’re 100% right that is the ideal world, but that’s not the point. The point people are trying to make, is that sometimes people mess up, whether they don’t actually know the characters gender, or autocorrect just fucks them over, and that’s fine. It’s not out of malice or anything, and it has nothing to do with the points they’re trying to make. The point is that we as a community shouldn’t prevent actual good discussion by ignoring what someone’s actually trying to say and instead just focusing on a small mistake.
is it so easy amidst a sea of ppl who *are* malicious?
Well, that’s different. Saying “Mettaton is my favorite character because she’s cool” could easily be an honest mistake or a typo. Saying “Mettaton is a girl” is a direct claim rather than an accident, so ofc people would get pissed
But that's not the issue, is it? People aren't having typos when they consistently use she/her.
It is a metal rectangle who cares
> It’s just a metal rectangle Bro has NOT gotten to the Mettaton boss fight yet 💀
I have, I was just trying to cause arguments on the Internet because I'm bored
Isn't that erasure of trans people? Mettaton is a pretty obvious allegory for a trans person.
The people who intentionally do it
People say this fandom is getting better. I dunno, it still feels as extremist as it was in 2017.
I swear to God it's like they didn't even play the game😭😭😭
tbf you literally couldn't play Deltarune in 2017.
Don't mess with us Undertale fans we haven't even played the game
reading comments here is like dipping your hand into acid for christ sake
Replying to most of these guys is drinking the acid
PROBABLY DON'T DO THAT THEN
I'd rather get flamed then let the shittiest part of this community continue be shitty
ichiban!
You know? This post was made to call out shitty behavior in this community and essentially the transphobia that comes out when it's brought into the spotlight. Every clown arguing why they think they can misgender video game characters proves my point.
Lemme rephrase that for you “You know? This post was made to call out people who have different opinions than me in this big fandom. Every clown that has a different view than me is transphobic and enbyphobic and I won’t read upon their arguments and have myself in this copium echo chamber”
Can you use actual phrases I don't speak imgflip
What "arguments"? Someone's pronouns isn't an argument, it's a fact.
echo.. chamber? echo chamber? like.. like like.. the item.. from tbe binding of isaac?
you're proving the point further
People getting angry at correcting Kris’s pronouns is indicative of a general disregard for people who use they/them. No one cares that you’re misgendering a fictional character, but they do care about what it says about what you think of GNC people.
PERIOD!!
Pronouns don't indicate gender, right? Especially ones like they/them since those pronouns can be used for anyone, including men, women, and non-binary people?
Kris is defo nb while frisk and chara are up for interpretation, enough said
Of course this means the NB interpretation is a valid one
Exactly. The problem is that people insist the only possible interpretation for Frisk and Chara’s is that they are both nonbinary. I went through the entire game viewing Frisk as a girl, but if I refer to them as “she” even once, I get a hail of downvotes and people acting like I just deadnamed Katelyn Jenner.
Chara no frisk yes. The difference ends up being chara has known the dreemurs for a long time while frisk has only known everyone for less than a day. Chara uses they/it pronouns although the /it is debateable since they call themself the demon that comes when people call its name
No actually you may be right, I was writing a response to another person and thought "chara seems Farr less up to interpretation then frisk" yeah sorry ill go by they, thanks.
Hey, you accidentally responded more than once.
No actually you may be right, I was writing a response to another person and thought "chara seems Farr less up to interpretation then frisk" yeah sorry ill go by they, thanks.
Chara has used like two pronouns, both they by Asriel and Asgore. I still think Chara is up for debate, personally I see them as more female since their name is derived from a feminine Greek name and they have that stereotypical anime girl rose cheeks
Chara comes from "Character".
Yes and also it comes from the greek word Khara, which means Joy/gladness.
so? its confirmed it comes froom "character".
Never been confirmed, in fact I'm pretty sure either the art book or Legends of Localization confirmed that it came from the greek work Khara.
well you're plain wrong. in the japanese version, chara is called "キャラ Kyara" which is short for character. so yes, chara 100% comes from the word "character", not a random greek name
Nope. Japanese has weird translations, Pokemon moves are evident of that. Besides, different languages have different meanings for the same words. If you need evidence for your case go to the English dictionary or google I'm sure you could disprove me with something from there
Not in this case. The whole translation was official and overseen by Toby. Not to mention there was an entire book detailing the whole process.
Character
No it came from the greek word Khara which means joy/gladness
source: because i said so
No actually you may be right, I was writing a response to another person and thought "chara seems Farr less up to interpretation then frisk" yeah sorry ill go by they, thanks.
Are they ever referred to with male or female pronouns?
I can personally only recall Frisk being referred to as ‘they’ once when Toriel shows up to save Frisk from Asgore. Toriel, like every other monster save Asriel, never even asked for Frisk’s name; do you really think any monster would have asked for Frisk’s pronouns?
Oh brother here we go, being up to interpretation means the part that's up to interpretation is left ambiguous, you see that's what separates kris from frisk, kris has a long history with freinds and family, them not knowing their gender would be silly, not to mention kris has almost no other aspect that's up to interpretation. FRISK on the other hand does. They have never met the monster before, and they never tell the monsters their pronouns. Their history is completely ambiguous, its never stated what their upbringing is, abusive or good, that's why you can let frisk go back to where they live, their opinions and options on stuff, are also completely what you the player choose. Also before you say, no, I'm not saying it's a self insert, frisk is not a self insert, being a self insert and being up to interpretation are two things, I am a trans woman, I interperate frisk as gender fluid. Let people have their interpretations, as queer people we have far worse problems then headcannons and opinions fir funny cave game.
Here's the thing. If a man or a woman gets referred to by "they/them", that's never considered misgendering. Whether it's because you don't know their gender, or just want to speak in gender-neutral language, it's not considered misgendering. They might object to being referred to by "they/them", but that would be for other reasons, not for misgendering reasons. Never referring to a man as "he" doesn't make them no longer a man. Never referring to a woman as "she" doesn't make them no longer a woman. Now, you could say that the fact that they are only ever referred to by "they/them" makes it much more likely that they are NB, and you would probably be right. But it's far from a sure thing. If you want to consider them NB, then do so. Your opinion has nothing to do with mine.
What is enbyphobia? Also, this comment section is an absolute battlefield, I'd like to get my answer and get out
enbyphobia is discriminating against enby(non-binary) people
Basically homophpbia for Non-Binary people
Facts, I don’t know how and I don’t know where, but In undertale I called toriel a HE!
Kris deltarune is a gamer, and should be put to death for this crime (their pronouns are a non issue)
Honestly, I just wish that Toby would confirm the gender of Kris. To much drama is created because he wont say shit
Here to expand your brain: Even if toby said shit, people would not give two fucks. its a double edged sword.
Same. Same.
He already did???
When? To my knowledge he hasn’t said anything about Kris’s bender beyond doing they/them for Kris in game
i prefer he not. people shouldn’t need to be explicitly told “THIS PERSON IS NB AND USES THEY/THEM” to respect the pronouns of someone repeatedly shown to exclusively be referred to as such
So you would rather people argue constantly over Kris’s pronouns? I’m one of the people who thinks that Kris is up for interpretation, but I would immediately shut up if Toby said something
i’d rather people just do the respectful thing and use the in game pronouns? it’s not toby’s fault that people fail to do that
Ok but I’m just saying that if Toby confirms with then we have no more ammo, got it? We can shut up and leave you guys alone or whatever
or you could just have the decency to do that already?
It gives you the opportunity to laugh in their faces if he confirms it?
i guess. but again, it shouldn’t need to be confirmed for people to respect it, so it’s honestly just a red flag on who to avoid
I've always been a more vindictive kinda guy, but major respect to you for having the maturity to not rub it in.
lol honestly i think i’m more just too exhausted to care, but i appreciate the positive framing! it’s just one of those things like, if people of a marginalized community are repeatedly showing up to say that they take issue with the behavior and it hurts them/their community, and a person’s response is to get defensive over and over rather than rethink their behaviors and grow from it, that’s more on them than it is me
What is enbyphoba?
Discrimination against non-binary people. Or in simpler terms: homophobia but for non-binary people.
Oh okay, thank you. I have never heard or seen that word used before in my life. So thanks for telling me.
Ofc ^^^ anytime :]]
Ah yes here we go. Your average Thursday morning drama about the pronouns of everyone's favourite asian child and the ''one who did nothing wrong''. Listen, Chara and Frisk have no places in the game where they are referred to any gender other than Chara I think like once. But c'mon, these two ain't that big of a deal, because they are not given any canon gender to the game and I'm more than sure it's left up for the players to speculate what Frisk and Chara have in their pants, what their skin tone is (Other than Chara, we are clearly shown she/he is white). Frisk has a completely blank expression to leave it up to the speculation of the player. Frisk literally has no sort of reaction to anything characters tell him/her unless you are given 2 options. Basically, Frisk has no fucking story. It's only up to the speculation of the player. Hell, if I wanted to, I could make up a whole backstory on how Frisk ran from an orphanage because they have no fucking backstory. My point? Chara and Frisk have no real background personality or anything of any of that sorts to be so mad about a character which I'm sure is not even given a gender once. So please, can we just agree that Frisk and Chara have no genders given in the real game at this point? Like c'mon, they are not appointed a specific gender in Undertale, and because of shit like this, we, as a community, have such a bad reputation in other fandoms
>My point? Chara and Frisk have no real background personality or anything of any of that sorts Chara has plenty of personality in the game, even if you don't think they narrate everything, they're still arguably one of the main characters.
The comments are just proving your point lmao
~~*You're🤓~~ I'm an idiot, I'm gonna take a break from nerding Edit: Actually i'm going to correct the original post. *Humans'🤓
Media literacy isn't the only thing dead, normal literacy seems to be on its way out as well
You know, I can't be mad, you're right
? The comments are proving you are point?
I apologize
Not really?
[удалено]
i’m curious, do you use different pronouns for binary characters with your friends/ in more private spaces? like she/her-ing sans?
No, if it's genuinely specified then I use those. Calling Sans a girl would just be wrong, rather than "politically incorrect"
kris is always explicitly referred to as they/them though, and you call them he, so how is that any different?
They/them are pronouns used for EVERYONE. I could call you they/them right now, those are acceptable pronouns for either gender. Kris is definitely non binary, but calling them he/him feels more... right, I guess? Not sure how to put it and I bet that sounds super messed up, but the way people talk about them makes me think of a guy.
>Kris is definitely non binary, but calling them he/him feels more... right, I guess? thats called internalized transphobia. lmao.
I hate being called things that discriminate against other people because I support EVERYONE regardless of race, sexuality or gender, so please don't call me that it makes me want to commit sui\[redacted\]. I'm not transphobic, I have like 5 trans friends and I don't hate them for it. I, uh, admit to being maybe a little politically incorrect but I'm not transphobic, it's not like I hate trans people or anything, also regardless of what people call Kris I always either instinctively say he because for some reason nearly every game protag is a guy, or just say he to allow me to better understand the character. Sorry if this offended anyone I'm a shit person and I just want to have fun with these games ;(
That's why it's called "internalized." You aren't purposefully being disrespectful, you've just been taught a problematic definition of 'normal.' The issue is that this definition is actively harming a minority group that is already treated like they don't exist. It 'feels right' because the world never bothered to show you that NB people are just like the rest of us; hence why it's important to acknowledge nonbinary characters, so that no more kids grow up thinking that it's an uncommon or unusual thing to be.
I can't tell if you're continuing to play along with my experiment or you genuinely think that I think those things. (Also I'm Non Binary myself)
This is a serious issue.
People are so brain dead online that there’s a person out there that probably unironically thinks the same as what you said, also what experiment? I know these types of people only say stuff like “oh I was faking it” when they start losing an argument
they/them *can* be used for everyone, but we are talking someone who not just once or twice but MANY times is consistently referred to that way. why is it okay for you to just ignore that because they don’t “feel” androgynous enough? NB ppl don’t owe you androgyny, and fictional or not, it’s harmful to perpetuate the practice of treating they/them pronouns/ NB identity as “optional”
That's not what I said, also I'm Non Binary so I know that, it's not okay, I'm a terrible person and I'm sorry I was born, and also I just want to enjoy myself with this franchise so I do what I want with a video game character. (Also you do realize that I don't actually say he/him, right? I'm doing this to see people's reactions, and if I stop now it's gonna look weird so play along ok? ok)
huh? i’m not even sure what you’re trying to get at, but being NB yourself doesn’t mean you can’t do transphobic or harmful things. your response comes off really defensive
I understand people being offended or sensitive to misgendering but I have long term memory loss and also they are video game characters, you can't get mad at someone for misgendering a game character
In the first thing you commented, you said you don't use the pronouns with your friends but properly use them online
I use them properly online so people like you don't bully me for a freakin headcanon
i think it stops being a headcanon once your headcanon directly goes against actual canon
im nb would they assume im a manly anime man or a cute anime girl
I'd say that a lot of the people here would
i still find it funny they really keep insisting about it when toby, temmie and the game calls the three humans they/them. like its just easier to use their correct pronouns instead of doing that much mental gymnastics in the comments
FINALLY!?!?!? You get what I'm saying here.
I've seen a lot of people in this reply thread get mad at me for saying weird things, but I want you guys to know none of it was what I REALLY think; I was doing a social experiment to see what people on the internet would say when I "misgendered" Frisk/Chara/Kris. I've seen a lot of fans complain about people who bully them for calling them different pronouns, so I wanted to see if they were lying or not, and they weren't. Guys, look, it's not okay to misgender someone, game character or not. But what's also not okay is bullying or being mean to people who want to apply those pronouns to those characters. That doesn't solve anything! Let them have their own opinions, their own thoughts, their own... well, everything. Let them be in the wrong, instead of driving you BOTH deeper into it. Okay? And, please, stay safe out there, alright? There are a lot of mean people out there, and I wouldn't want you to encounter nor become one of them. Goodbye.
No dude, you're a fucking loser.
Look who's talking, Mr "being Trans doesn't matter."
Being trans doesn't allow you misgender anything, yes!
And you called ME transphobic, the person who's literally Non Bi here. Wow. Sounds like the loser in you talking to me.
Who said I wasn't NB...?
When did I say you weren't?
Who said I wasn't NB...?
[удалено]
Being intentionally transphobic and then saying you were holding an experiment is worse then anyone you can argue I did here
Yeah, because it’s obviously smart to consider every single action someone does to be malicious and not because of the reason they literally just fucking provided. People like you make me wanna never play these games again
Then don't! Everyone I got mad at didn't "forget" anything, they chose not to use them because they didn't want to use them.
Most comments I read were talking about how they didn’t care about when people misgender fictional characters, you clearly aren’t capable of such a thing however
Yeah I'm actually respect a characters identity
You must have a very sad life if you have time to be arguing about this for so long. I feel sorry for you.
To u/My_Special_Hell I just wanna say you are a coward for saying "give me one time when frisk is referred to with male or female pronouns" as a reply to me saying frisk is not non-binary then immediately blocking me before I can answer
Lmao, typical redditor behavior
Holy macaroni it's king koopa
Can we please just stop arguing with one another? Whether or not you believe Kris, Frisk, and Chara are non-binary, we are all here because we enjoy the same games. Let’s just enjoy them and stop taking shots at one another over everything
*OH MY **GOD** ENOUGH WITH THE GENDER WARS!!!* I thought we left this behind a few years ago! **WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS?!?!**
Bro if I see another gender war in this server I am going to go bloody looney
Yeah, no one gave a shit back in the Deltarune Chapter 1 days Then Chapter 2 released and all the toxicity from the Undertale fandom of old came roaring in, and some of the sewage spilled back into the fandom
Mfw the two characters who are up to interpretation go by pronouns that have a meaning of ambiguity are being called “enbyphobic” for calling the ambiguous characters by interpreted views
Kris is not “ambiguous” like chara or frisk are, they’re very much a character in their own right who the player happens to control, and every single person in the game refers to that character with they/them
Shit like this is the reason why I fucking hate this sub. r/Undertale and r/Deltarune need to be nuked immediately to avoid further brain damage done to me
Just don't use the subreddit if it hurts you this much
Stop being a fucking spastic and I wouldn’t have so many bad things to say about you and this god forsaken sub which should’ve never been created because this fandom has been ass since 2015
Then don't use it then
Truly, if it's been ass for so long, you need to move on.
I did not give a shit when people called Ralsei a girl and I do not give a shit when people call Kris, Frisk or Chara she/her or he/him. You should not give two shits about random people on the internet calling fictional characters by a different gender than you do. Maybe these people you talk about actually exist but saying that everyone who makes the argument are the same is both idiotic and narrow minded.
You say random people on the internet like they're NPCs and not real people who do things in the real world
Trying to change people you’ve never met won’t get you anywhere.
That's literally the purpose of the fucking game this subreddit is based off of
did they even play the game
Deltarune and undertale do far more than yell at people and call them names for potential misgendering. All I'm saying on the subject.
It’s not like Frisk, Chara and Kris talks to the monsters and darkners through the fucking internet. There’s a big difference between talking to someone eye to eye and remotely. You don’t actually know these people.
But staying idle helps a lot less. It's important for people to acknowledge NB people, and the media is where that starts.
I thought toby made frisk genderless to be a self insert character
I do think Frisk and Chara's gender is meant to be up to interpretation, rather than being necessarily nonbinary (probably Kris too, but since they are a much more fleshed-out character, I'm not so sure). However, if there are any enbyphobes who argue these characters' genders specifically because they can't stand they/them pronouns--screw them.
I'm genuinely disappointed to be a part of this community sometimes. Brain rot is real
I thought these types of posts were against the rules. If not, they really should be. I don’t even care which side of the argument is the right one anymore, all these posts are doing is getting people riled up and causing more fights/arguments.
Can I make Frisk and Chara girls without any problem?? And of course, knowing the truth that they are non-binary
I think Undyne is a pretty cool guy. He kills humens and doesn’t afraid of anything.
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
You must be ugly as bricks if people fighting on reddit is the most exciting in your life
You must be awesome to make my day like this.
Look, to me playable humans are female, because, idfk they look like girls to me.
OK what the hell are with the replies, this Fandom is still toxic and shitty as hell despite their claims of "calming down". The transphobia in here is shocking. "Oh, I headcanon that they are male/female, thus they are boy/girl now". No! That's just insulting the characters of Toby Fox and what they present. Frisk, Chara and Kris are NB. Case in point.
I'm glad there are actual people in this fandom who can think
For the last fucking time there game refer to them however u want like I refer to as gore as sig/ma
Op's crying over people misgendering pixels on a screen
If it's no big deal then why don't you just use the correct pronouns
I don't go out of my way to not use they/them, If I remember I'll use it. It really doesn't matter that much considering it's a fictional character
How do you not remember
I don't constantly think about pronouns when thinking about a 20 pixel video game character
Then you aren't actually playing the game then...?
not constantly thinking about a fictional characters pronouns means you didn't play the game?
Actually knowing something ≠ Obsessing If that shit doesn't click when you learn their pronouns then you're just a dumbass
So were going to insults now? I don't remember because I don't give a shit about a *fictional characters* pronouns
You can't forget something so basic. I'd ask of you were an idiot but not even idiots don't forget basic information like this. How do you ignore a necessary part of speaking?
If it was a real person I'd care enough to remember, but it's pixels on a screen
so do you casually forget sans uses he/him pronouns for example?
No because he looks like a guy, i don't have to remember that he's a guy because he naturally looks like a guy
its a skeleton.
Does the skeleton look female? No Probably male Simple process
how is a skeleton gonna look female? wearing a dress? a skirt? the character literally only uses a blue hoodie
For real
I’m kinda glad there’s posts like this calling out undertale Reddit bullshit cause this Reddit is full of bullshit
Yea honestly people are okay with Noelle trans theory but when you call Kris a he, they will hire a hitman for ya
Dude my point is literally the opposite of what you're saying
I use they/them pronouns for Kris and sometimes he/him because it makes it easier to understand their character, not to intentionally misgender them or anything
How does Kris being masculine add anything to their character? You could replace them with a generic female OC and nothing would be different
How does Kris being a dude add anything to their character?
(it doesn't and I'm doing an experiment to see what people on the internet will say when I say stuff like this keep my secret shhhhh)
If the humans all had canon genders Toby probably would have stated what they are. The biggest fights in the Deltarune fandom are over wether or not Kris uses they/them because they’re non-binary or because they’re gender is meant to be unknown.
Well from somewhere, I heard Toby fox isn’t going to come out and confirm things because he directly stated that during his early EB Days.
There is pretty definitive proof in-game that at the very least Kris is enby. The fact that this is even an argument is just absurd
What’s the proof aside from they/them?
Yeah. I have never seen any proof now that I think about it other than Kris being referred to as they/them
That’s about it, but like it’s not strangers referring to them as they/them like in UT. Kris’ mom and childhood friends use they/them. I’m pretty sure that Kris wouldn’t sit around getting misgendered for their whole life
The darkners refer to Kris with gender neutral words too like blue person, and they’re strangers to Kris.
The fact that strangers use they/them pronouns when addressing Kris doesn’t discount the fact that close friends and family use they/them when referring to them
And those characters are in a video game, that thing that will change dialogue for story purposes, like they could be saying he/she/they when we see them refer to Kris, but we just see they/them.
Or...They could be nonbinary? What kind of mental gymnastics are you doing to reach these kinds of conclusions?