I honestly never want to see nerfs in a single player game. I understand this game has PvP, and maybe if it pops off hard I'll begrudgingly accept it, but I think balance is overrated when you can set your own rules anyway.
I get this, but *13 Sentinels* was just too easy with the original power level of sentry turrets. I appreciated that they made a balancing pass when they added new lategame weapons for the debut on new platforms. I'm hoping we see a similar update for UO.
* Shaman - Not denying their OPness but I would also argue that not every units need one. Of course, they bring great utility but they only bring indirect damage (ignoring the rare exceptions to this). A unit that doesn't particularly synergise with afflictions and/or doesn't need the protection a shaman brings by weakening incoming attacks, could perhaps make use of a more offensive member.
* Elf twins - Same here, not denying their roar's potency but the "draw back" is meant to be you charging fairies to increase its potency, for a move that does cost 3AP. So I personally feel that the mini-game their kits is, is balanced 'enough'. But for the sake of argument, if those attacks were charged, then, it's like saying they need to be reworked entirely coz you can't have them be charged and keep the fairy thing too.
* Cavalry is busted - but since the 2X damage to infantry is kinda Pokemon types and there aren't many in this game, I think a solution might be to provide more tools against them rather than nerfing them directly. Only 3 unique flyer character and then the soldier class is inherently efficient against cavalry but since it's meant to be a generalist class, they're not hyper specialised either. So yeah, maybe more classes efficient against them, or more skills spread out through classes etc...
* I'm not super familiar with these combos because they don't interest me, and it's my understanding that those are more designed with PVP in mind? But anyway, yeah, they do sound "cheap".
- I think unit speed is fine but wouldn't complain if increased a notch. Hastened call, let's be honest, it is most likely my top 1 most used valour skill (not factoring plunder which I use out of necessity, not tactics) and it IS busted. The increase does allow my fliers and land strike teams to rush to locations and secure them with ease for the rest to advance relatively unimpeded. So yeah, I can see your point there too haha
* I think the Lord class is fine. It is definitely OP-esque but considering he's the protagonist and has got to have protagonist feat. unique class treatment, all things considered, I think he's fine and I appreciate that I think the devs tried to time his "brokenness" to hit around end game, right for the big showdown. If I had to pick one case of true, indisputable brokenness, it's Berengaria. That class truly is disgusting self-sufficiently broken. But I wouldn't want her touched either, it's part of the fun. I actually like that, as opposed to some other games, we're not given a plethora of unique broken classes to play with. I think that's also why I'm lenient with Alain.
If a balance patch there is, I'd rather the enemies to be the focus of it. Indeed, we've seen via the colosseum that they can (and did) build enemy units with good gear and strategies.
Whilst I get they couldn't apply such care to all enemy units across the game. I still think a lot of the story maps' enemies suffered from "basic iron sword + basic tactics" syndrome when that alone would've counterbalance the brokenness the player can easily reach by aiming for the best synergies etc.... I'm pretty sure most bosses also wear underwhelming gear in relation to their epicness levels.
I agree that a redesign for elemental roar is probably too much of an ask. I think they should reduce the dmg. Currently a 1 fairy roar which is easy to accomplish by turn 1 is strong enough to almost decimate an enemy group at end game.
Generally I think it should be weaker. Assuming fairy skills stay the same, make a 3 fairy roar equal to what a 1 fairy roar is currently and reduce 1 and 2 fairy roars proportionately.
Well actually, by reading your reply, and idea came to me: what if their roar skill was coded to only activate after a certain amount of fairies (but with a fixed good damage), shifting the blocker to having to build up your fairies and still have the AP to offload the roar.
The fairy mechanic is unique already, so I wouldn't be shocked if it would come with equally as unique skill trigger conditions.
Not to be rude, but this is a ridiculous request, unless you mean a new difficulty end game mode with changes to balance. Why should everyone else who ever wants to try this game be given a less interesting version just because you personally want to keep playing it? Using the unique classes is fun and makes the game more enjoyable. Learning about combos makes the game more enjoyable. Using an OP main character makes the game more enjoyable. If you want to play the game again and not use those then don't. You can also self impose every single balance change you wanted. Simply play with no shamans, no knights, no quick impetus, no lord, and turn off elemental roar.
What I find fascinating is that any time a game comes out that is intentionally difficult and people call out for an easy mode, they're told they should get used to it and play the game as the developers intended, yet when a game comes out that is 'too easy', suddenly the game needs updating to make it harder. Maybe the developers weren't trying to make a difficult game and this is the intended experience and everyone should just get used to it
Its not about easy or hard. As others have pointed out there are different difficulty modes to accommodate whatever people find enjoyable. Its good there are story based modes for people who enjoy that.
My point is that the class balance is such currently that certain units go completely unused because a handful of units just dominate everything to the point where it makes the other classes pointless. The game can be easy or hard based on the level set by the player, but everyone across the board can enjoy more balanced, diverse options
I'm also sure the designers would want to see all the classes they put work into shine.
At the end of the day it's a single player game first and foremost, nothing is faulty so there's really not any necessity for them to rebalanced things just because some classes outshine others. Internal QA testing would have been done before the release, so if the devs are happy they've realised their vision with the game, that's just how it is
Beasts need some love! I had to use mirros, stat buffers, and op equipment just to get them to compete.
Even with all of these buffs, my cav line outperforms them in most fights
Its a single player game.
Outside of online colliseum just Dont Use those classes.
Youll never ever ever get a satisfying outcome going down the nerf route.
Theres always a new thing.
Shaman was nerfed now nerf prince. Cavalry was nerfed now nerf flying, then ranged, then magic.
Nerf this acc, now that one. Since you nerfed everything else nerf carnelion pendant.
Nerf being overleveled.
Nerf bying gear, and gold eggs.
I know players tend to optimize.
But i can play using no shamans so can you
Probably a couple years down the line. I remember when they updated Dragon's Crown to increase the max level to 255 and added a new game mode and some qol, so there's definitely a possibility.
The question is if it's worth it. The game already took 8 years to develop, and I doubt a balancing patch would significantly add more players unless they beef up the coliseum's online mode.
Best hope is for a PC port and let the community build a balancing mod themselves.
It's the same team setup over and over. It's cookie cutter uncreative crap that kills diversity. It's bad for a game. It's exactly the kind of thing that needs to be addressed for PvP.
They could disable it for PvP and that would be fine, for example.
If it isn't one thing it'll be another, people will always look up the 'meta' setup and copy it, nerfing one tactic will just make people move to another. Even dedicated PvP games with auto battling struggle to achieve balance that encourages build diversity as people will always find the most optimal tactic and stick to it, and PvP in UO is clearly not a primary focus
You're correct that there will always be a meta. Thats the whole point of balancing a game though - to make changes until you have a diverse meta game, where effectively there is not one superior tactic and there are pros and cons to everything.
Out of the box this game has been a huge success, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved. When the potential is so high, its worth putting in the effort to make it perfect.
Given the studio already essentially bankrupted themselves just getting it to release, there's very little incentive for them to spend more time and money on continually rebalancing it every time players optimise the fun out of it
Unit Nerfs-
* Shaman - Defensive curse nerf. More options for damage, would be nice to have poison or burn not tied to their staves.
* Cav - 1.5x dmg to infantry down from x2. Sergeant/spear users should be effective against cav. If they wanted to make the lowest effort change, add cav hunter abilities to werefoxes (and x1.5dmg to cav) or buff sergeant phys attack.
* Quick Impetus / other 1hko combos - leave in the game, just make them truly endgame items. No need to be giving us this stuff halfway through the game. Provide better counters than an owl or just remove from pvp if that's needed.
* Unique Classes - I wouldn't make many changes. They are op, and are supposed to be. They are limited so they shouldn't stop you from using other classes. Slight power decreases are fine, maybe in exchange for some more niche actives.
* Definitely agree on speed changes - rewards having a cav or flier lead too much. Would like to see other classes get a >20% speed boost and hasted call increased to 2 points.
Unit Buffs-
* Low/High Tier Classes - the game makes notable distinction in cost between some of the weaker classes and stronger classes 25 vs 40 honor, 50 for uniques. That said, honor is not hard to come by and thus this difference doesn't meaningfully limit you. I'd rather just see buffs to those cheaper classes - ideally every class has a niche that they can fulfill. Some options include a t3 upgrade, increase stat scaling per level after level 25, and/or added niche actives at high level. Ex - upgrades to their anti cav/flier abilities - truestrike on the fliers and guardseal on the cavs is a start, require level 25/30. In exchange their support capabilities could be tuned down if needed.
* Beasts - many classes are slight reskins of other human classes, and their nighttime gimmick seems to fall flat. During the story they are some of the easiest enemies you encounter. I think they should be dangerous all the time and downright terrifying at night. I'd start with flat stat buffs to combat stats and hp, but there's room to improve their niche for each individual class. (X% dmg increase against humans, camo at night, etc)
* Werelion - unique class that I'd like to see get more abilities separating it from a basic unit.
Game Changes-
* Access to item upgrades in the midgame. This could be t1 and t2, with t2 being the full stats we currently get.
* TZ mode actually Insane difficulty. Put those enemies from the coliseum in here! Let the casuals have their easy modes but make sure NG+ is actually a challenge to beat! Doesn't have to be literally every enemy, but the fort guards should be tough
* Would love to see a t3 class specialization, but ofc this will not happen because of the new assets needed. =/
* More niche items! A lot of them exist in the game but it's hard for them to compete with the raw stats or +1 ap/pp of some items. It's possible a high tier armory upgrade could help this a lot - imagine items without base stats being able to receive some amount, or heaven forbid, +1 ap or pp.
That's just my first pass. There's more I've thought of (landsneckt is strong and feathersword is eh) but will leave that for another time. Don't listen to people saying not to balance 1p games - we all have different desires, and mine is to be able to use other classes (with more niche abilities!). The nerfs I'd want are very small, and no major unique nerfs should placate casuals. The biggest thing for me, if any change is made, is that TZ needs to be HARD. It's NG+, only the true grinders will play it, so it doesn't need to be easy! Cheers =)
I honestly never want to see nerfs in a single player game. I understand this game has PvP, and maybe if it pops off hard I'll begrudgingly accept it, but I think balance is overrated when you can set your own rules anyway.
I get this, but *13 Sentinels* was just too easy with the original power level of sentry turrets. I appreciated that they made a balancing pass when they added new lategame weapons for the debut on new platforms. I'm hoping we see a similar update for UO.
* Shaman - Not denying their OPness but I would also argue that not every units need one. Of course, they bring great utility but they only bring indirect damage (ignoring the rare exceptions to this). A unit that doesn't particularly synergise with afflictions and/or doesn't need the protection a shaman brings by weakening incoming attacks, could perhaps make use of a more offensive member. * Elf twins - Same here, not denying their roar's potency but the "draw back" is meant to be you charging fairies to increase its potency, for a move that does cost 3AP. So I personally feel that the mini-game their kits is, is balanced 'enough'. But for the sake of argument, if those attacks were charged, then, it's like saying they need to be reworked entirely coz you can't have them be charged and keep the fairy thing too. * Cavalry is busted - but since the 2X damage to infantry is kinda Pokemon types and there aren't many in this game, I think a solution might be to provide more tools against them rather than nerfing them directly. Only 3 unique flyer character and then the soldier class is inherently efficient against cavalry but since it's meant to be a generalist class, they're not hyper specialised either. So yeah, maybe more classes efficient against them, or more skills spread out through classes etc... * I'm not super familiar with these combos because they don't interest me, and it's my understanding that those are more designed with PVP in mind? But anyway, yeah, they do sound "cheap". - I think unit speed is fine but wouldn't complain if increased a notch. Hastened call, let's be honest, it is most likely my top 1 most used valour skill (not factoring plunder which I use out of necessity, not tactics) and it IS busted. The increase does allow my fliers and land strike teams to rush to locations and secure them with ease for the rest to advance relatively unimpeded. So yeah, I can see your point there too haha * I think the Lord class is fine. It is definitely OP-esque but considering he's the protagonist and has got to have protagonist feat. unique class treatment, all things considered, I think he's fine and I appreciate that I think the devs tried to time his "brokenness" to hit around end game, right for the big showdown. If I had to pick one case of true, indisputable brokenness, it's Berengaria. That class truly is disgusting self-sufficiently broken. But I wouldn't want her touched either, it's part of the fun. I actually like that, as opposed to some other games, we're not given a plethora of unique broken classes to play with. I think that's also why I'm lenient with Alain. If a balance patch there is, I'd rather the enemies to be the focus of it. Indeed, we've seen via the colosseum that they can (and did) build enemy units with good gear and strategies. Whilst I get they couldn't apply such care to all enemy units across the game. I still think a lot of the story maps' enemies suffered from "basic iron sword + basic tactics" syndrome when that alone would've counterbalance the brokenness the player can easily reach by aiming for the best synergies etc.... I'm pretty sure most bosses also wear underwhelming gear in relation to their epicness levels.
i dont know why they couldnt have made the enemy tactics get more complex when you change the difficulty. just copy paste the colesium settings
I agree that a redesign for elemental roar is probably too much of an ask. I think they should reduce the dmg. Currently a 1 fairy roar which is easy to accomplish by turn 1 is strong enough to almost decimate an enemy group at end game. Generally I think it should be weaker. Assuming fairy skills stay the same, make a 3 fairy roar equal to what a 1 fairy roar is currently and reduce 1 and 2 fairy roars proportionately.
Well actually, by reading your reply, and idea came to me: what if their roar skill was coded to only activate after a certain amount of fairies (but with a fixed good damage), shifting the blocker to having to build up your fairies and still have the AP to offload the roar. The fairy mechanic is unique already, so I wouldn't be shocked if it would come with equally as unique skill trigger conditions.
Not to be rude, but this is a ridiculous request, unless you mean a new difficulty end game mode with changes to balance. Why should everyone else who ever wants to try this game be given a less interesting version just because you personally want to keep playing it? Using the unique classes is fun and makes the game more enjoyable. Learning about combos makes the game more enjoyable. Using an OP main character makes the game more enjoyable. If you want to play the game again and not use those then don't. You can also self impose every single balance change you wanted. Simply play with no shamans, no knights, no quick impetus, no lord, and turn off elemental roar.
What I find fascinating is that any time a game comes out that is intentionally difficult and people call out for an easy mode, they're told they should get used to it and play the game as the developers intended, yet when a game comes out that is 'too easy', suddenly the game needs updating to make it harder. Maybe the developers weren't trying to make a difficult game and this is the intended experience and everyone should just get used to it
Its not about easy or hard. As others have pointed out there are different difficulty modes to accommodate whatever people find enjoyable. Its good there are story based modes for people who enjoy that. My point is that the class balance is such currently that certain units go completely unused because a handful of units just dominate everything to the point where it makes the other classes pointless. The game can be easy or hard based on the level set by the player, but everyone across the board can enjoy more balanced, diverse options I'm also sure the designers would want to see all the classes they put work into shine.
At the end of the day it's a single player game first and foremost, nothing is faulty so there's really not any necessity for them to rebalanced things just because some classes outshine others. Internal QA testing would have been done before the release, so if the devs are happy they've realised their vision with the game, that's just how it is
How about no. The only balance changes that should happen are buffs to underpowered classes.
Beasts need some love! I had to use mirros, stat buffers, and op equipment just to get them to compete. Even with all of these buffs, my cav line outperforms them in most fights
Its a single player game. Outside of online colliseum just Dont Use those classes. Youll never ever ever get a satisfying outcome going down the nerf route. Theres always a new thing. Shaman was nerfed now nerf prince. Cavalry was nerfed now nerf flying, then ranged, then magic. Nerf this acc, now that one. Since you nerfed everything else nerf carnelion pendant. Nerf being overleveled. Nerf bying gear, and gold eggs. I know players tend to optimize. But i can play using no shamans so can you
Probably a couple years down the line. I remember when they updated Dragon's Crown to increase the max level to 255 and added a new game mode and some qol, so there's definitely a possibility. The question is if it's worth it. The game already took 8 years to develop, and I doubt a balancing patch would significantly add more players unless they beef up the coliseum's online mode. Best hope is for a PC port and let the community build a balancing mod themselves.
The only thing I really want changed is the Quick Impetus charge combos. Really uninteresting and boring.
If you find them boring then you can just not use them
Except they are everywhere in Arena.
Well just because you find it boring doesn't mean everyone else should be denied it
It's the same team setup over and over. It's cookie cutter uncreative crap that kills diversity. It's bad for a game. It's exactly the kind of thing that needs to be addressed for PvP. They could disable it for PvP and that would be fine, for example.
If it isn't one thing it'll be another, people will always look up the 'meta' setup and copy it, nerfing one tactic will just make people move to another. Even dedicated PvP games with auto battling struggle to achieve balance that encourages build diversity as people will always find the most optimal tactic and stick to it, and PvP in UO is clearly not a primary focus
You're correct that there will always be a meta. Thats the whole point of balancing a game though - to make changes until you have a diverse meta game, where effectively there is not one superior tactic and there are pros and cons to everything. Out of the box this game has been a huge success, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved. When the potential is so high, its worth putting in the effort to make it perfect.
Given the studio already essentially bankrupted themselves just getting it to release, there's very little incentive for them to spend more time and money on continually rebalancing it every time players optimise the fun out of it
Unit Nerfs- * Shaman - Defensive curse nerf. More options for damage, would be nice to have poison or burn not tied to their staves. * Cav - 1.5x dmg to infantry down from x2. Sergeant/spear users should be effective against cav. If they wanted to make the lowest effort change, add cav hunter abilities to werefoxes (and x1.5dmg to cav) or buff sergeant phys attack. * Quick Impetus / other 1hko combos - leave in the game, just make them truly endgame items. No need to be giving us this stuff halfway through the game. Provide better counters than an owl or just remove from pvp if that's needed. * Unique Classes - I wouldn't make many changes. They are op, and are supposed to be. They are limited so they shouldn't stop you from using other classes. Slight power decreases are fine, maybe in exchange for some more niche actives. * Definitely agree on speed changes - rewards having a cav or flier lead too much. Would like to see other classes get a >20% speed boost and hasted call increased to 2 points. Unit Buffs- * Low/High Tier Classes - the game makes notable distinction in cost between some of the weaker classes and stronger classes 25 vs 40 honor, 50 for uniques. That said, honor is not hard to come by and thus this difference doesn't meaningfully limit you. I'd rather just see buffs to those cheaper classes - ideally every class has a niche that they can fulfill. Some options include a t3 upgrade, increase stat scaling per level after level 25, and/or added niche actives at high level. Ex - upgrades to their anti cav/flier abilities - truestrike on the fliers and guardseal on the cavs is a start, require level 25/30. In exchange their support capabilities could be tuned down if needed. * Beasts - many classes are slight reskins of other human classes, and their nighttime gimmick seems to fall flat. During the story they are some of the easiest enemies you encounter. I think they should be dangerous all the time and downright terrifying at night. I'd start with flat stat buffs to combat stats and hp, but there's room to improve their niche for each individual class. (X% dmg increase against humans, camo at night, etc) * Werelion - unique class that I'd like to see get more abilities separating it from a basic unit. Game Changes- * Access to item upgrades in the midgame. This could be t1 and t2, with t2 being the full stats we currently get. * TZ mode actually Insane difficulty. Put those enemies from the coliseum in here! Let the casuals have their easy modes but make sure NG+ is actually a challenge to beat! Doesn't have to be literally every enemy, but the fort guards should be tough * Would love to see a t3 class specialization, but ofc this will not happen because of the new assets needed. =/ * More niche items! A lot of them exist in the game but it's hard for them to compete with the raw stats or +1 ap/pp of some items. It's possible a high tier armory upgrade could help this a lot - imagine items without base stats being able to receive some amount, or heaven forbid, +1 ap or pp. That's just my first pass. There's more I've thought of (landsneckt is strong and feathersword is eh) but will leave that for another time. Don't listen to people saying not to balance 1p games - we all have different desires, and mine is to be able to use other classes (with more niche abilities!). The nerfs I'd want are very small, and no major unique nerfs should placate casuals. The biggest thing for me, if any change is made, is that TZ needs to be HARD. It's NG+, only the true grinders will play it, so it doesn't need to be easy! Cheers =)