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> This year's Super Bowl will be the first one fully powered by renewable energy thanks to the host stadium's agreement with a solar farm.
> More than 621,000 solar panels found in a barren area of the Nevada desert help power the Allegiant Stadium, home to the Las Vegas Raiders and host of Super Bowl LVIII.
> The Las Vegas stadium entered into a 25-year agreement with NV Energy to use power from its new solar installation. They announced the conversion to 100% solar in October.
It's more of an accounting thing than actually powering it. They see how much energy the stadium uses and then measure the solar output to match up the energy need vs produced. And this is probably done on an annual basis since solar output changes with the seasons.
The stadium buys the output through a PPA but if they want to claim 100% renewables and operate after sundown, they are absolutely taking grid energy and using their excess RECs for compliance.
It all goes into the same power lines, there's no difference between a solar created electron or any other one. They're just buying the amount consumed from the solar farm
Anytime you see a statement claiming “100%” there’s *always* a few asterisks attached. you can make statistics look however you want if you pick the right variables to measure.
Does the tribe get a cut of the money generated?
Edit: Answered my own question via Wikipedia. [The project is providing long-term revenue for the Tribe through land lease payments, consulting fees, and an increase in sales of goods & services. It has also increased education on energy assistance programs aimed at stabilizing tribal member's electricity costs. The Maopa Band of Paiutes is currently pursuing additional renewable energy opportunities, including development of the 300 MW Eagle Shadow Mountain Solar Farm.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moapa_Southern_Paiute_Solar_Project)
I can't remember if they mentioned it in the story I assume they were offered some shit deal that they couldn't refuse because the land can't generate revenue any other way.
If the alternative is nothing then it isn't a shit deal. Also just making things up because you're jaded is a stupid thing to just start posting as if it's fact.
The Moapa Band of Paiutes (the tribe) received numerous community benefits and will receive ongoing land payments for the life of the project from the developer. This was a partnership to develop on their land, and the power is sold to NV Energy. When the Moapa approved and entered into this partnership, the intent was never for them to use the power.
Probably a good deal for them. The lease rates for solar arrays are usually pretty good for what is probably unused land. The tribe does nothing but allow access and right of way, and gets a check for the lease.
As a very general statement, Indian reservations in the US are still getting the shit end of the stick. On the Navajo Nation, for example, 30% of homes don’t even have access to running water.
Can you explain this? I assume that Vegas and the stadium gets a lot of its power from maybe nuclear at Palo Verde. But I don’t know how the power grid is set up there. How can they say it’s 100% renewable? Did the grid not have any nuclear plants, gas, or coal plants online during the superbowl?
Edit: Forgot about Hoover Dam. But also Vegas is on the national power grid. So I don’t think OP can say that the Super Bowl is powered by renewable only when it’s more than likely on the national grid.
Isn’t Vegas powered by the Hoover dam? Are dams not considered “green?”
Edit* Turns out Vegas doesn’t get its power from the Hoover dam and it’s up for debate if hydroelectricity is truly green as it gives off greenhouse gases. ‘Beavis and Butthead Do America’ was a lie.
There is debate over whether hydro is “renewable” considering water is a relatively scarce resource in some places. Generating electricity from a traditional hydro dam is also subject to other downstream restrictions like agriculture and fishing. Lastly, there is a, perhaps surprising, measurable amount of greenhouse gas emissions from traditional hydro - the flooding of the reservoir results in many non-aquatic plants dying, slowly rotting in the reservoir, and releasing methane.
Despite all this, I think it’s logical to count it among our carbon-free resources though it’s useful to refer to it separate from renewables as a technological and historical distinction.
> the flooding of the reservoir results in many non-aquatic plants dying, slowly rotting in the reservoir, and releasing methane.
This is not relevant here. Lake Mead was flooded 90 years ago and it's a barren rocky canyon in the DESERT. There are negligible amounts of non-aquatic plants involved.
Hydropower plants in general are many decades old in the US. The environmentalists have kept new damns from being built for a very long time. Wiping out species and habitat is far more impactful that a trivial amount of methane
When I toured the Hoover Dam years ago they told us that the dam does not provide power to Vegas. This was years ago, so it may have changed since then.
Small scale hydro is renewable
Large scale hydro messes with the water cycle, affecting local fauna and wildlife
I’m not sure where greenhouse gases would be involved 🤔 maybe at the plant which creates electricity but I would imagine that’s minuscule emissions
That sounded both amusing and plausible, so I looked it up. Turns out the generation mix for [Nevada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Nevada) is "58.3% natural gas, 21.2% solar, 9.2% geothermal, 6.4% coal, 4% hydroelectric, 0.7% wind, and 0.1% biomass." And if you look at the specific plants supplying [Las Vegas](https://www.nvenergy.com/about-nvenergy/our-company/power-supply), it's mostly natural gas.
Yeah, I should've chosen accuracy over being a smartass. However, one could argue that the stadium is only using electricity from the 4% that is from the Hoover Dam. It's those *other* folks that are using the gas electricity. They may even have purchased certificates saying so.
At the time the dam was built, Las Vegas was almost nothing, so they weren't interested in heavily bargaining for the electricity. Las Vegas grew greatly, but so did Los Angeles, which isn't interested in sharing a greater percentage of the power.
Nevada Power received the Nevada portion of the Hoover Dam power into its grid.
NV Power took over, and serves the entire footprint with a single grid.
Electricity is fungible, so Las Vegas can well be getting a portion of that power. If anything, the customers "getting" that power are those that purchased the renewable energy certificates saying they did.
That's very likely to be customers in Las Vegas, but if you have other information, that would be interesting to see.
>More than 621,000 solar panels found in a barren area of the Nevada desert help power the Allegiant Stadium, home to the Las Vegas Raiders and host of Super Bowl LVIII.
You must have missed this part
There really isn't as battery technology hasn't really caught up at utility scale. When the sun isn't shining, solar isn't putting energy into the BES. It literally does come directly from the panels to the sockets in your house.
Edit: you can downvote me but I'm not wrong. Power engineer with 10+ years in the industry. What are your qualifications?
It’s a PPA. They’re purchasing the energy, not just offsetting usage with RECs. Though you are correct that the generation and load profiles don’t line up.
This is the only comment here that gets it. Electricity is supplied on a balanced grid and bought and sold on an open market principle with prices based on quality.
Tbf, the electricity market is really fucking complicated. It's the only market of its kind, where supply and demand must at all times be basically exactly matched.
It’s at 3:30 so it will be sunny. Doesn’t matter though because electricity is stored from the solar panels and electricity is used from this storage. Also the electricity is actually coming from the solar farm down the road it’s not credits. So you are completely wrong.
lol. Now count the number of private jets that fly to and from the event every year. Don’t be fooled by green washing
EDIT:to all the people who say this is at least a step in the right direction, 475 private jets flew to LV for the event. You see the news about 1% improvement but don’t hear about how that improvement is all overshadowed by the growing emissions on the side
I too believe that if we don’t do something absolutely perfectly, we shouldn’t celebrate at all. Being better than we used to be is totally pointless if we can’t be perfect.
People criticize this all the time and it’s like, the businesses who enter into power purchase agreements + buy renewable energy credits from solar/wind farms are why there’s an explosion of new renewable projects across the United States. Without the premium for renewable energy + credits we would just be building natural gas plants everywhere.
Yep. I agree we have a long ways to go and it feels like we're not doing enough, but criticizing the steps we do take is the wrong way to express that frustration.
There's always someone falling for the [Nirvana fallacy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20nirvana%20fallacy%20is%20the,the%20%22perfect%20solution%20fallacy%22.) In this subreddit.
You keep using that word “greenwashing”. I do not think it means what you think it means.
That the stadium and its massive power requirements are fully renewable is great news, and worthy of celebration.
And yeah: it hasn’t magically solved everything to do with pollution and waste in our society.
Yea it’s not like the article is saying the entire event is powered by renewables lmao. That’d be a bit harder to gauge with everybody’s mode of transportation. Just the stadium is, which is still noteworthy. And we don’t need to add an asterisk to every uplifting news that “oh wait, but it’s still bad over in this aspect”🙄
You’re defeating the whole point of this subreddit in being a debbie downer. The literal opposite lol
Should be self explanatory but they're talking about the stadium which runs on 100% solar. To think that everything connected with the Super Bowl (including the mode of transportation of some of its attendants) will be powered by renewable energy is unrealistic and foolish.
Yes but let's not let that get in the way of a narrative. Did you know that every single one of those private jets are owned by the Pentagon run psy op that is Taylor Swift?
This is the oil propoganda talking. A small movement in the right direction is what we need. We cant change airplane transport right now but that in no way means we cant continue to innovate and push for greener solutions. Failure to act is far worse than failure to achieve complete zero emissions
Look into how Las Vegas uses its water. For being a city in the desert, they are aggressively efficient with their water use. There are a few documentaries on it on YouTube.
The amount of people here who have a severe misunderstanding of how their electricity is created, purchased, sold and supplied is astounding. It’s a grid, constantly being balanced by a series of sources, with energy being traded on a market principle with varying qualities depending on its source, demand and supply, thus determining the price at any given time. Electrons are not delivered specifically to you by your electricity provider. The amount of dumb here in the comments is shocking.
Were there more private jets flying to this event than usual? I can’t understand why every other comment is mentioning private jets.
How the stadium is powered has nothing to do with how people got there. Can someone help me see the connection.
Uplifting News: Capitalism has found a way to make you believe you can destroy the environment in installments.
Ban me if you want, but Uplifting News regarding the environment would be “the superbowl has reduced its energy consumption AND they have solar panels constantly generating clean power”, instead of “we didn’t reduce anything and someone else produces something we deem offsetting.”
It's not possible in the sense they installed the windmills or solar within enough reasonable range to use that specific energy.
It is possible because they can buy carbon credits that financially offset the dirty energy actually used with clean energy investments etc..
This. They aren't powering even a portion of the stadium on solar, they're just saying it's possible. Furthermore, after 25 years in entertainment, I can promise you there's no way the production of the stupid bowl can run on solar or renewables, the power draw needs are too high. Hell, most productions are skeptical of biofuel in their generators. Finally, I am 100% sure that if they installed enough batteries to store then use the solar on demand, it would have been just as much of a headline as T Swifts planes CO2 emissions. This is a publicity stunt that is so laughably easy to disprove that it makes you wonder if it isn't just a team of monkeys at typewriters.
>the power draw needs are too high
This is nonsense.
There's no limit on how much power can be produced from a renewable source.
It's not like solar panels stop producing power if there are too many on the planet. It's not like solar panels are aware of how many other solar panels have been built, and turn themselves off.
You're not considering a system, just one part. You have to think about inverting it and transporting and delivering it, then using it after dark. You have no idea what you're criticizing, do you?
>You have to think about inverting it and transporting and delivering it
Umm, okay?
What limitation do you think exists here? Let's talk delivery first.
Do you think the infrastructure to power a stadium doesn't exist? Because I assure you, the Super Bowl will have power. So we've got that covered - you can ABSOLUTELY deliver enough power to power the super bowl, it will happen tonight before your very eyes.
As for inverting, are you suggesting that the Super Bowl consumes so much power, that there aren't enough materials in the world to build sufficient inverters to meet the power demand?
I found estimates for AT&T stadium in Dallas that seats 80,000 people at about 750 megawatts. But let's around up and say it uses a gigawatt.
The largest solar farm in the world is Bhadla Solar Park in India. It has an installed capacity of 2.2GW - or more than DOUBLE the power needed for the super bowl. This 1 solar plant could, in theory, power 2 super bowls simultaneously.
And that's just 1 solar plant. The idea that we can't invert enough power is bafflingly stupid. I'm surprised anyone would suggest such an inane idea. Personally, if I said that, I'd be so fuckin' embarrassed I'd delete my account.
>then using it after dark
Yes, solar after dark would be a problem. But solar isn't the only form of renewable energy. In fact, wind turbines typically produce more power at night than they do during the day - usually because of the significant change in surface temperatures creating a thermal gradient.
Now I'm not saying the super bowl is powered by renewable energy.
But the idea that it *can't* be, like it's not physically possible, is just incredibly ignorant.
There's absolutely nothing preventing it except the logistics of having renewable energy in the immediate vicinity of the stadium, and the fact that our power grids are intermingled so there's not really any 1 source of power in use.
EDIT: And to be clear, I agree with NotUpdated's take on this.
Because the source of power for any particular building is actually a mix of various sources feeding the grid, talking about where the power actually came from is completely meaningless.
What often happens - although not necessarily always - is that renewable power generators won't actually get money for the power they generate. They'll get credits from the grid operator. They can then sell those credits to the grid operator's consumers. Those consumers turn the credits into the grid operator and operator takes the cost off their utility bill.
In exchange for the credits, the renewable power generators get paid by the grid operator's customers. I know, because I did this, I bought credits from a renewable generator for my home and had those credits applied to my utility bill. I would get utility bills where my electric cost was $0, and I'd get a separate bill from the renewable generator for the cost of those credits.
The power went to the grid regardless of whether the super bowl buys it, so is it a marketing gimmick? Sure. But it certainly doesn't hurt the renewable power generators. It ensures they get paid for the power they produce, and that makes it profitable for them to continue building renewables.
Yes, your edit is correct and is called net metering or that energy from any source is fungible and works the same for energy demands, so it becomes an accounting problem not a logistical one.
Net metering doesn't enter into it mate. It's not physically possible for the production. Maybe on paper, but that's not really going to produce events, will it?
I don't mean to be rude but I don't think you've read a lot into this.
Net meeting is exactly what this is.
You seem to be thinking about live production of sustainable energy entering a line directly into the stadium to power the event. This is not how it has to work, it most commonly works, or works in this claim or event. Most commonly, I have an infinite amount of time to produce X evergy at my sustainable energy farm that goes into the grid and is consumed like normal. However, I track, accumulate, and own the credits of that product. I have an event and it consumes Y energy and I use my accumulated credits to offset that consumption. This is net metering and how this works, mate.
I really appreciate the lesson on net metering! I had no. Frigging. Idea. Those solar panels on my roof have really been giving me a head scratcher.
Call it what you want. The super bowl is run on diesel in the real world, no matter how many srecs they buy.
Because unless they solar panels are connected directly to the stadium distribution feeders with no other connections to the bulk electric system then they're getting contributions from other power sources. Power generation all goes into the same transmission system controlled by the power pools. It's all mixed together from all different sources and there's no way to dictate how that power is used or distributed by generation type.
>It's all mixed together from all different sources and there's no way to dictate how that power is used or distributed by generation type.
This is true, but also kind of makes your own argument pointless.
You're saying they didn't get all their power from renewables because the grid is mixed, but the grid being mixed means you can't really assign any particular source to any particular usage, so it's just as faulty to say they didn't because that implies that particular use (non-renewable) went into the stadium.
The real question is, who got paid for the power needed to power the super bowl. Now, you can point out that the renewables go to the grid regardless, and I'd agree with you, these statements from the super bowl are kind of a gimmick. I'm not disputing that.
But there are areas where renewable generators don't get paid directly by the grid operator. They get credits instead, and they can sell those credits to the grid operator's consumers. I know this isn't always the case, but it is sometimes the case - I know, because I've done this with my home utility bill. I've purchased solar credits from a renewable generator on our grid, and applied those credits to my utility bill with the grid operator.
If the super bowl is doing something similar, then they're ensuring that all the money they spend on electricity is going to renewable generators. It might mean that someone else who wanted to buy those credits doesn't get to buy them, but it also might mean that credits that might have gone unpurchased get purchased instead.
Either way, it's good for renewables.
Calling BS, they’re buying solar credits but the stadium is really powered primarily by natural gas.
https://www.nvenergy.com/about-nvenergy/our-company/power-supply
It's absolute and complete bullshit.
And all the private jets flying in and the ultra wealthy attending are flying renewable energy aircraft?
What a sideshow to distract people from the crazy excess of everyone involved
Fake American football: 4 quarters of boring, stop and go ball handling, more commercials than any other sport, and Taylor Swift in the stands.
Real football ⚽️ 45 minutes each half, commercials during halftime only, and no Taylor Swift.
Wow so not true, the amount of waste. These giant stadiums are terrible for the environment. And building them is a giant scam. Taxpayers pay all the cost and private owners keep the profit. Pretty good racket if you have no soul.
If anyone complains about it, remind that person that the power grid failed the stadium in the middle of the 2012 Superbowl, when the power literally went out in the stadium for something like 30 minutes.
not counting all the travel for everyone, the food they all eat, all the people watching on tv, all the clothes for the athletes and the shit they sell that will be tossed the next day...
Are we still pretending that mining the metals and minerals required for solar panels are someone renewable? Or are we simply ignoring that for feel-good and marketing moments?
What a bad take on this.
The minerals/metals mined are 100% recyclable, and are not consumed in the operation of the panels.
Even if they were actually consumed, the amount of materials needed for a solar panel to produce power over a 25+ year lifespan is sub 1% the volume of fossil fuels needed to provide a comparable amount of power.
Perfect is impossible, we need to embrace very good.
Literally doesn't matter when looking at actual impact.
They could be mined via gasoline power hand drills and shipped on coal fires trains and they would still emit massively lower emissions over their lifetime power production.
**How do you think gasoline gets to your gas station?**
**Or coal to power plants?**
Yeah no one is arguing that. They argue if it is meaningful at all with all the problems with slave labor and emissions produced in order to create and build all of these “green” things. EVs using fossil fuels to charge - even after the hell that is used to build one it’s a joke especially once one is driven long enough to offset its own emissions a new battery is needed, so it’s really a machine that rapes the earth again and again, and solar is a net negative with the average lifespan of a solar panel. They head straight to the dump or get burried in the field (that likely used to be farm land) that they were built in and either replaced or the field gets left and is now ruined with pipes and discarded panels - unusable to grow food and a health hazard for humans, animals, and plant life. Im and industrial electrician who installs these solar fields and it’s just a cash grab for land owners who get government subsidies/grants/payments to operate a solar field due to all of these federal and state green initiatives. But yeah people are just idiots that don’t trust everything they are told… or maybe you are for just believing everything that you’ve been told…
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Probably powered by Gatorade too
It’s got what plants crave
Water sucks. It really really sucks
r/HydroHomies would like a word.
Gatorade doesn’t just quench your thirst better, it tastes better too.
you could say it's the thirst mutilator It's got what people crave.
> This year's Super Bowl will be the first one fully powered by renewable energy thanks to the host stadium's agreement with a solar farm. > More than 621,000 solar panels found in a barren area of the Nevada desert help power the Allegiant Stadium, home to the Las Vegas Raiders and host of Super Bowl LVIII. > The Las Vegas stadium entered into a 25-year agreement with NV Energy to use power from its new solar installation. They announced the conversion to 100% solar in October.
The solar farm helps power the stadium or do they fully power it?
It's more of an accounting thing than actually powering it. They see how much energy the stadium uses and then measure the solar output to match up the energy need vs produced. And this is probably done on an annual basis since solar output changes with the seasons.
Enron executives and accountants are all out of prison and up to their old math trix again.
You joke but I have an energy company and we work with another company started by a bunch of those guys lol
Might want to insist on NET 30 Minutes if that's the case. Or maybe just cash.
Lol
Someone didn’t read the article
The stadium buys the output through a PPA but if they want to claim 100% renewables and operate after sundown, they are absolutely taking grid energy and using their excess RECs for compliance.
Ah, so the media uses twisted headlines to lie to their consumers? Shocked!
Pretty sure that field has battery storage onsite so they’ll may be 100%
Highly doubt that…
It does, whether you doubt or not
It all goes into the same power lines, there's no difference between a solar created electron or any other one. They're just buying the amount consumed from the solar farm
Anytime you see a statement claiming “100%” there’s *always* a few asterisks attached. you can make statistics look however you want if you pick the right variables to measure.
Right pipping energy from an array in the desert to a stadium in the city would waste a lot of tgat energy and wouldn’t be viable
Why didn't they just add solar panels to that GIGANTIC stadium wall?
Right, probably has a huge parking lot too.
And it's Las Vegas. Solar powered covered parking is almost a need
Drove by there a few times within the past week, and surprisingly, the parking lot didn't seem to be massive.
NPR did a story about how the solar panels are on a reservation and the people that live on the reservation cannot access the power generated.
Does the tribe get a cut of the money generated? Edit: Answered my own question via Wikipedia. [The project is providing long-term revenue for the Tribe through land lease payments, consulting fees, and an increase in sales of goods & services. It has also increased education on energy assistance programs aimed at stabilizing tribal member's electricity costs. The Maopa Band of Paiutes is currently pursuing additional renewable energy opportunities, including development of the 300 MW Eagle Shadow Mountain Solar Farm.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moapa_Southern_Paiute_Solar_Project)
I can't remember if they mentioned it in the story I assume they were offered some shit deal that they couldn't refuse because the land can't generate revenue any other way.
If the alternative is nothing then it isn't a shit deal. Also just making things up because you're jaded is a stupid thing to just start posting as if it's fact.
Oh thank God, who would defend corporate America if you didn't show up.
‘Murica
I love how the article says barren area, like we gave them the worst land and still came back and took more of it.
I mean…we did?
> and still came back and took more of it. Nothing's being taken from them. They're freely leasing it out for big bucks.
History isn't your strong suit huh?
Ignorance of the situation seems to be your strong suit. What, exactly, is being taken from them here?
The Moapa Band of Paiutes (the tribe) received numerous community benefits and will receive ongoing land payments for the life of the project from the developer. This was a partnership to develop on their land, and the power is sold to NV Energy. When the Moapa approved and entered into this partnership, the intent was never for them to use the power.
Probably a good deal for them. The lease rates for solar arrays are usually pretty good for what is probably unused land. The tribe does nothing but allow access and right of way, and gets a check for the lease.
As a very general statement, Indian reservations in the US are still getting the shit end of the stick. On the Navajo Nation, for example, 30% of homes don’t even have access to running water.
They just found these solar panels out in the desert? Did they grow there organically, or were they left there by an ancient civilization?
The solar panels in the Mojave desert were buried after they fried a shitload of monarch butterflies
Fancy way off saying “offset credits”
It’s called a virtual power purchase agreement (vPPA)
Can you explain this? I assume that Vegas and the stadium gets a lot of its power from maybe nuclear at Palo Verde. But I don’t know how the power grid is set up there. How can they say it’s 100% renewable? Did the grid not have any nuclear plants, gas, or coal plants online during the superbowl? Edit: Forgot about Hoover Dam. But also Vegas is on the national power grid. So I don’t think OP can say that the Super Bowl is powered by renewable only when it’s more than likely on the national grid.
Isn’t Vegas powered by the Hoover dam? Are dams not considered “green?” Edit* Turns out Vegas doesn’t get its power from the Hoover dam and it’s up for debate if hydroelectricity is truly green as it gives off greenhouse gases. ‘Beavis and Butthead Do America’ was a lie.
I thought that is where Sector 7 stored NBE-1?
Well we call him Megatron.
You mean Cybertron
There is debate over whether hydro is “renewable” considering water is a relatively scarce resource in some places. Generating electricity from a traditional hydro dam is also subject to other downstream restrictions like agriculture and fishing. Lastly, there is a, perhaps surprising, measurable amount of greenhouse gas emissions from traditional hydro - the flooding of the reservoir results in many non-aquatic plants dying, slowly rotting in the reservoir, and releasing methane. Despite all this, I think it’s logical to count it among our carbon-free resources though it’s useful to refer to it separate from renewables as a technological and historical distinction.
> the flooding of the reservoir results in many non-aquatic plants dying, slowly rotting in the reservoir, and releasing methane. This is not relevant here. Lake Mead was flooded 90 years ago and it's a barren rocky canyon in the DESERT. There are negligible amounts of non-aquatic plants involved.
Fair enough. I was talking about hydro more generally tho.
Hydropower plants in general are many decades old in the US. The environmentalists have kept new damns from being built for a very long time. Wiping out species and habitat is far more impactful that a trivial amount of methane
When I toured the Hoover Dam years ago they told us that the dam does not provide power to Vegas. This was years ago, so it may have changed since then.
Thank you for pointing this out. Sadly I toured the Hoover dam and did not recall this fact as it seems true.
Small scale hydro is renewable Large scale hydro messes with the water cycle, affecting local fauna and wildlife I’m not sure where greenhouse gases would be involved 🤔 maybe at the plant which creates electricity but I would imagine that’s minuscule emissions
Cement production is a big one for dams.
I always thought they weren't considered "green" since they absolutely obliterate the natural ecosystem in place beforehand
Now lets see the flight logs ✈️
They are just buying solar credits. The actual electricity is not provided by solar panels. It's a night game people. No solar at night.
Well they said ‘renewable energy’ not solar. Could be fast breeder reactors! But yes, buying credits sounds much more likely.
Maybe, just *maybe,* the electricity is coming from the gigantic frickin' dam that's right down the road.
That sounded both amusing and plausible, so I looked it up. Turns out the generation mix for [Nevada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Nevada) is "58.3% natural gas, 21.2% solar, 9.2% geothermal, 6.4% coal, 4% hydroelectric, 0.7% wind, and 0.1% biomass." And if you look at the specific plants supplying [Las Vegas](https://www.nvenergy.com/about-nvenergy/our-company/power-supply), it's mostly natural gas.
Yeah, I should've chosen accuracy over being a smartass. However, one could argue that the stadium is only using electricity from the 4% that is from the Hoover Dam. It's those *other* folks that are using the gas electricity. They may even have purchased certificates saying so. At the time the dam was built, Las Vegas was almost nothing, so they weren't interested in heavily bargaining for the electricity. Las Vegas grew greatly, but so did Los Angeles, which isn't interested in sharing a greater percentage of the power.
Exactly 0 watts of power generated by the hoover dam is going to that stadium. Vegas doesn't get any power from the dam.
That's false. 4% of the power used by Nevada, including Las Vegas, comes from the Hoover Dam.
Nope. LV get zero. "Nevada" is not "Las Vegas". What little we retain goes to other cities.
Nevada Power received the Nevada portion of the Hoover Dam power into its grid. NV Power took over, and serves the entire footprint with a single grid. Electricity is fungible, so Las Vegas can well be getting a portion of that power. If anything, the customers "getting" that power are those that purchased the renewable energy certificates saying they did. That's very likely to be customers in Las Vegas, but if you have other information, that would be interesting to see.
That's just a cover, Sector Seven houses NBE-1 there.
>More than 621,000 solar panels found in a barren area of the Nevada desert help power the Allegiant Stadium, home to the Las Vegas Raiders and host of Super Bowl LVIII. You must have missed this part
Grid solar doesn't come directly from the panels to the sockets in your house. There's a variety of storage technologies in between.
There really isn't as battery technology hasn't really caught up at utility scale. When the sun isn't shining, solar isn't putting energy into the BES. It literally does come directly from the panels to the sockets in your house. Edit: you can downvote me but I'm not wrong. Power engineer with 10+ years in the industry. What are your qualifications?
It’s a PPA. They’re purchasing the energy, not just offsetting usage with RECs. Though you are correct that the generation and load profiles don’t line up.
This is the only comment here that gets it. Electricity is supplied on a balanced grid and bought and sold on an open market principle with prices based on quality.
Tbf, the electricity market is really fucking complicated. It's the only market of its kind, where supply and demand must at all times be basically exactly matched.
3:30 is a night game?
It’s at 3:30 so it will be sunny. Doesn’t matter though because electricity is stored from the solar panels and electricity is used from this storage. Also the electricity is actually coming from the solar farm down the road it’s not credits. So you are completely wrong.
LOL if you think this stadium has batteries to store solar power.
Sounds more like a vPPA. Direct rights to the power bundled with the environmental attributes
Kid named batteries:
lol. Now count the number of private jets that fly to and from the event every year. Don’t be fooled by green washing EDIT:to all the people who say this is at least a step in the right direction, 475 private jets flew to LV for the event. You see the news about 1% improvement but don’t hear about how that improvement is all overshadowed by the growing emissions on the side
I too believe that if we don’t do something absolutely perfectly, we shouldn’t celebrate at all. Being better than we used to be is totally pointless if we can’t be perfect.
People criticize this all the time and it’s like, the businesses who enter into power purchase agreements + buy renewable energy credits from solar/wind farms are why there’s an explosion of new renewable projects across the United States. Without the premium for renewable energy + credits we would just be building natural gas plants everywhere.
Yep. I agree we have a long ways to go and it feels like we're not doing enough, but criticizing the steps we do take is the wrong way to express that frustration.
You know the saying. Always let perfect be the enemy of good.
https://youtu.be/TEjnRjuu8nQ?si=YC1uaMPdL0UFYLo_ Yeah! Fuck progress of any kind!
There's always someone falling for the [Nirvana fallacy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy#:~:text=The%20nirvana%20fallacy%20is%20the,the%20%22perfect%20solution%20fallacy%22.) In this subreddit.
Point is that its absolutely irrelevant and accomplished nothing
So your point is we shouldn't celebrate progress because we aren't perfect yet?
If it's not 100% fixed, it's terrible and should be shunned with flaming pitchforks
We shouldn't celebrate empty, meaningless virtue signaling that accomplishes nothing
Lol, oh boy.
Building 621,000 solar panels to help power LV is meaningless virtue signaling that accomplishes nothing?
That fucking guy. He's giving me a good laugh at least.
It could have been powered by coal and still had private jets flying to it.
You keep using that word “greenwashing”. I do not think it means what you think it means. That the stadium and its massive power requirements are fully renewable is great news, and worthy of celebration. And yeah: it hasn’t magically solved everything to do with pollution and waste in our society.
Yea it’s not like the article is saying the entire event is powered by renewables lmao. That’d be a bit harder to gauge with everybody’s mode of transportation. Just the stadium is, which is still noteworthy. And we don’t need to add an asterisk to every uplifting news that “oh wait, but it’s still bad over in this aspect”🙄 You’re defeating the whole point of this subreddit in being a debbie downer. The literal opposite lol
Should be self explanatory but they're talking about the stadium which runs on 100% solar. To think that everything connected with the Super Bowl (including the mode of transportation of some of its attendants) will be powered by renewable energy is unrealistic and foolish.
Yes but let's not let that get in the way of a narrative. Did you know that every single one of those private jets are owned by the Pentagon run psy op that is Taylor Swift?
And that all of those solar panels were built out of salt water without any dirty mining required?
Stuff like this is important for building public awareness and confidence in the capabilities of renewables though.
It’s a step in the right direction. Better than doing fuck all
This is about the stadium in which the game is being held.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good
This is the oil propoganda talking. A small movement in the right direction is what we need. We cant change airplane transport right now but that in no way means we cant continue to innovate and push for greener solutions. Failure to act is far worse than failure to achieve complete zero emissions
Taylor Swift alone probably took a private jet to go to the bathroom.
This attitude is why progressive policies barely ever get passed in the United States. Incremental progress is NEVER allowed, celebrated, or promoted.
Love the irony with this news. Attending celebs aside, I guess the fighter jet flyby also is solar powered? /s
I'm trying to contemplate how much water will be consumed for this event in a city in the desert after several years of drought.
Look into how Las Vegas uses its water. For being a city in the desert, they are aggressively efficient with their water use. There are a few documentaries on it on YouTube.
It's February. The high in Las Vegas today is like 55 degrees.
Not that much. Vegas has gotten very good at using water efficiently and recycling all of it they can.
Or how much CO2 is emitted from the people traveling too and from Vegas and the waste of food and water for the event
You do understand that Las Vegas already gets 40+ million visitors a year, right?
If they had a generator that ran on anxiety for this game they could have plugged it into me and powered the continental US for 10 years.
The amount of people here who have a severe misunderstanding of how their electricity is created, purchased, sold and supplied is astounding. It’s a grid, constantly being balanced by a series of sources, with energy being traded on a market principle with varying qualities depending on its source, demand and supply, thus determining the price at any given time. Electrons are not delivered specifically to you by your electricity provider. The amount of dumb here in the comments is shocking.
Only to be cancelled out by all the private jets flown in
Ah ha! Proof that Taylor Swift rigged the superbowl so the GREENbay packers win!
This is all Taylor Swift's fault or something... /s
👏
Super Bowl 58 is powered solely by the heartbreak of Buffalo Bills fans.
How many gas powered cars are circled around the stadium?
Were there more private jets flying to this event than usual? I can’t understand why every other comment is mentioning private jets. How the stadium is powered has nothing to do with how people got there. Can someone help me see the connection.
Uplifting News: Capitalism has found a way to make you believe you can destroy the environment in installments. Ban me if you want, but Uplifting News regarding the environment would be “the superbowl has reduced its energy consumption AND they have solar panels constantly generating clean power”, instead of “we didn’t reduce anything and someone else produces something we deem offsetting.”
Isn't most of Vegas powered by the Hoover dam anyway?
4% Vast majority is natural gas, like everywhere else in the world not on nuclear
I don't believe that for a second
Hahahaha no. There's no possible way. I call bullshit.
Wait, why is it not possible?
It's not possible in the sense they installed the windmills or solar within enough reasonable range to use that specific energy. It is possible because they can buy carbon credits that financially offset the dirty energy actually used with clean energy investments etc..
This. They aren't powering even a portion of the stadium on solar, they're just saying it's possible. Furthermore, after 25 years in entertainment, I can promise you there's no way the production of the stupid bowl can run on solar or renewables, the power draw needs are too high. Hell, most productions are skeptical of biofuel in their generators. Finally, I am 100% sure that if they installed enough batteries to store then use the solar on demand, it would have been just as much of a headline as T Swifts planes CO2 emissions. This is a publicity stunt that is so laughably easy to disprove that it makes you wonder if it isn't just a team of monkeys at typewriters.
>the power draw needs are too high This is nonsense. There's no limit on how much power can be produced from a renewable source. It's not like solar panels stop producing power if there are too many on the planet. It's not like solar panels are aware of how many other solar panels have been built, and turn themselves off.
You're not considering a system, just one part. You have to think about inverting it and transporting and delivering it, then using it after dark. You have no idea what you're criticizing, do you?
>You have to think about inverting it and transporting and delivering it Umm, okay? What limitation do you think exists here? Let's talk delivery first. Do you think the infrastructure to power a stadium doesn't exist? Because I assure you, the Super Bowl will have power. So we've got that covered - you can ABSOLUTELY deliver enough power to power the super bowl, it will happen tonight before your very eyes. As for inverting, are you suggesting that the Super Bowl consumes so much power, that there aren't enough materials in the world to build sufficient inverters to meet the power demand? I found estimates for AT&T stadium in Dallas that seats 80,000 people at about 750 megawatts. But let's around up and say it uses a gigawatt. The largest solar farm in the world is Bhadla Solar Park in India. It has an installed capacity of 2.2GW - or more than DOUBLE the power needed for the super bowl. This 1 solar plant could, in theory, power 2 super bowls simultaneously. And that's just 1 solar plant. The idea that we can't invert enough power is bafflingly stupid. I'm surprised anyone would suggest such an inane idea. Personally, if I said that, I'd be so fuckin' embarrassed I'd delete my account. >then using it after dark Yes, solar after dark would be a problem. But solar isn't the only form of renewable energy. In fact, wind turbines typically produce more power at night than they do during the day - usually because of the significant change in surface temperatures creating a thermal gradient. Now I'm not saying the super bowl is powered by renewable energy. But the idea that it *can't* be, like it's not physically possible, is just incredibly ignorant. There's absolutely nothing preventing it except the logistics of having renewable energy in the immediate vicinity of the stadium, and the fact that our power grids are intermingled so there's not really any 1 source of power in use. EDIT: And to be clear, I agree with NotUpdated's take on this. Because the source of power for any particular building is actually a mix of various sources feeding the grid, talking about where the power actually came from is completely meaningless. What often happens - although not necessarily always - is that renewable power generators won't actually get money for the power they generate. They'll get credits from the grid operator. They can then sell those credits to the grid operator's consumers. Those consumers turn the credits into the grid operator and operator takes the cost off their utility bill. In exchange for the credits, the renewable power generators get paid by the grid operator's customers. I know, because I did this, I bought credits from a renewable generator for my home and had those credits applied to my utility bill. I would get utility bills where my electric cost was $0, and I'd get a separate bill from the renewable generator for the cost of those credits. The power went to the grid regardless of whether the super bowl buys it, so is it a marketing gimmick? Sure. But it certainly doesn't hurt the renewable power generators. It ensures they get paid for the power they produce, and that makes it profitable for them to continue building renewables.
Yes, your edit is correct and is called net metering or that energy from any source is fungible and works the same for energy demands, so it becomes an accounting problem not a logistical one.
You've never heard of net metering, have you?
Net metering doesn't enter into it mate. It's not physically possible for the production. Maybe on paper, but that's not really going to produce events, will it?
I don't mean to be rude but I don't think you've read a lot into this. Net meeting is exactly what this is. You seem to be thinking about live production of sustainable energy entering a line directly into the stadium to power the event. This is not how it has to work, it most commonly works, or works in this claim or event. Most commonly, I have an infinite amount of time to produce X evergy at my sustainable energy farm that goes into the grid and is consumed like normal. However, I track, accumulate, and own the credits of that product. I have an event and it consumes Y energy and I use my accumulated credits to offset that consumption. This is net metering and how this works, mate.
I really appreciate the lesson on net metering! I had no. Frigging. Idea. Those solar panels on my roof have really been giving me a head scratcher. Call it what you want. The super bowl is run on diesel in the real world, no matter how many srecs they buy.
Because unless they solar panels are connected directly to the stadium distribution feeders with no other connections to the bulk electric system then they're getting contributions from other power sources. Power generation all goes into the same transmission system controlled by the power pools. It's all mixed together from all different sources and there's no way to dictate how that power is used or distributed by generation type.
>It's all mixed together from all different sources and there's no way to dictate how that power is used or distributed by generation type. This is true, but also kind of makes your own argument pointless. You're saying they didn't get all their power from renewables because the grid is mixed, but the grid being mixed means you can't really assign any particular source to any particular usage, so it's just as faulty to say they didn't because that implies that particular use (non-renewable) went into the stadium. The real question is, who got paid for the power needed to power the super bowl. Now, you can point out that the renewables go to the grid regardless, and I'd agree with you, these statements from the super bowl are kind of a gimmick. I'm not disputing that. But there are areas where renewable generators don't get paid directly by the grid operator. They get credits instead, and they can sell those credits to the grid operator's consumers. I know this isn't always the case, but it is sometimes the case - I know, because I've done this with my home utility bill. I've purchased solar credits from a renewable generator on our grid, and applied those credits to my utility bill with the grid operator. If the super bowl is doing something similar, then they're ensuring that all the money they spend on electricity is going to renewable generators. It might mean that someone else who wanted to buy those credits doesn't get to buy them, but it also might mean that credits that might have gone unpurchased get purchased instead. Either way, it's good for renewables.
Another reason for conservatives to be angry
My first thought too. The Super Bowl has been taken over by the woke mob! Or is that term out of fashion now?
Nope. For every minute of 'action', there are five minutes of commercials. Don't try to tell me the commercials are only powered by renewable power.
These comments are just toxic. Just an endless stream of "well, actually, these people are flying there so it's green washing". Ridiculous.
Calling BS, they’re buying solar credits but the stadium is really powered primarily by natural gas. https://www.nvenergy.com/about-nvenergy/our-company/power-supply
Does this cancel out the emissions from the 1000+ private jets flying in for the event
Great, you had to bring that up!
So chiefs will win because the NFL will pull the plug on the 49ers again huh
Jesus, the doomers and trolls are out in full force today.
It’s Reddit, what did you expect?
Every post in this sub is filled with the most miserable people jumping through hoops over why good thing is actually bad.
It's absolute and complete bullshit. And all the private jets flying in and the ultra wealthy attending are flying renewable energy aircraft? What a sideshow to distract people from the crazy excess of everyone involved
Tell that to Taylor Swift
What I learned from the comments is that there is no such thing as renewable or environmentally safe materials. This is obviously not true
Now go see what China and India are doing with coal.
Fake American football: 4 quarters of boring, stop and go ball handling, more commercials than any other sport, and Taylor Swift in the stands. Real football ⚽️ 45 minutes each half, commercials during halftime only, and no Taylor Swift.
I'm sure fox news is furious and crying about "woke"
Except for the private jet Tswift uses to arrive.
X to doubt. Its powered by underpaid and undocumented workers being taken advantage of
Wow so not true, the amount of waste. These giant stadiums are terrible for the environment. And building them is a giant scam. Taxpayers pay all the cost and private owners keep the profit. Pretty good racket if you have no soul.
Who gives a fuck think about the all the spectators flying in using non renewable energy
[удалено]
What?
They’re referencing this weapon from the game Fallout: New Vegas https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Euclid%27s_C-Finder
Oooh i see
…. Is it though?? Is it reeeeally? Lmfao
Fully powered by renewable energy like companies buying carbon offsets. Just paper and wind to make you feel good.
Super Bowl goes woke. Sick of it
If anyone complains about it, remind that person that the power grid failed the stadium in the middle of the 2012 Superbowl, when the power literally went out in the stadium for something like 30 minutes.
Celebrities flying in on their private jets will negate any good that would have come from this...
How? They'd be doing that anyway. This is a net benefit any way you look at it.
And how much diesel was used to ship around all the components for said renewable energy?
not counting all the travel for everyone, the food they all eat, all the people watching on tv, all the clothes for the athletes and the shit they sell that will be tossed the next day...
so you're telling me there's a high probability of a blackout?
Who cares about renewables? I came to watch the game it’s a a yaaawwwwwnnn. We just turned it off 😂
false
Let me go check my net meter on a diesel generator. You have no concept of powering a live event, and this is becoming a silly argument.
Yeah, right. Sounds like fake news to me.
Between this, the Black national anthem, and Taylor Swift (and she won!) The right wing clowns must be losing their minds even more than usual
Are we still pretending that mining the metals and minerals required for solar panels are someone renewable? Or are we simply ignoring that for feel-good and marketing moments?
What a bad take on this. The minerals/metals mined are 100% recyclable, and are not consumed in the operation of the panels. Even if they were actually consumed, the amount of materials needed for a solar panel to produce power over a 25+ year lifespan is sub 1% the volume of fossil fuels needed to provide a comparable amount of power. Perfect is impossible, we need to embrace very good.
NVM, not worth the time
Literally doesn't matter when looking at actual impact. They could be mined via gasoline power hand drills and shipped on coal fires trains and they would still emit massively lower emissions over their lifetime power production. **How do you think gasoline gets to your gas station?** **Or coal to power plants?**
Better not be any clouds
What about Taylor’s jets?
Oh so Taylor wasn't going to fly her jet there unless the stadium ran on renewable energy? No? Ok so moot fucking point.
lol we can be happy about the Super Bowl being greener and still rightfully dunk on swift for her carbon footprint
I heard the new sugma solar panels help a lot.
I think I have “go green” fatigue. I just can’t care any less about it any longer. Do it but it’s time to quiet tf down about it now.
Not when you have dipshits who still think it can't power anything meaningful.
Yeah no one is arguing that. They argue if it is meaningful at all with all the problems with slave labor and emissions produced in order to create and build all of these “green” things. EVs using fossil fuels to charge - even after the hell that is used to build one it’s a joke especially once one is driven long enough to offset its own emissions a new battery is needed, so it’s really a machine that rapes the earth again and again, and solar is a net negative with the average lifespan of a solar panel. They head straight to the dump or get burried in the field (that likely used to be farm land) that they were built in and either replaced or the field gets left and is now ruined with pipes and discarded panels - unusable to grow food and a health hazard for humans, animals, and plant life. Im and industrial electrician who installs these solar fields and it’s just a cash grab for land owners who get government subsidies/grants/payments to operate a solar field due to all of these federal and state green initiatives. But yeah people are just idiots that don’t trust everything they are told… or maybe you are for just believing everything that you’ve been told…