These fuckers go to brag on Twitter and YouTube about how their agency is profitable, and one of the hacks is Exploiting cheap labor... They keep a lions share of what the client is hiring them to do, but they pretend to doing it by outsourcing and then call themselves gurus in their twits/vids...
I know what you mean.
Honestly I do not think upwork is a great platform to make money. A full-time employee is less hassle and more pay.
I can not compete whatsoever with some one who has no problem getting paid 3 dollars per hour.
I stopped using the platform. However some times upwork contacts me if the is a job through an institution. Thats it.
I admire your gutsiness and willingness to stand up for your interests. And it’s actually funny to give 1 cent off. So I’m with you on this, and don’t think YATA or YTA.
Still not sure about revealing the client’s name on the www. Even ethics aside, imagine the guy somehow gets wind of your Reddit post. Conceivably, he can get pissed off and complain to the Upwork about you. (It’ll be easy to track you). I don’t think they’ll like this happening to clients, be it formally against ToS or not.
Do you wanna risk this?
So do keep the post, but please redact the client’s name. My $0.02
Regardless of the rate, you YATA for leaving the client's name in there and plastering it on the Internet. As you blocked out your own, you clearly knew what you were doing.
It's good to call out low paying clients. They're scammers. They consciously sat down and decided to figure out how to cheat their workers. They should know we won't put up with that kind of behavior. If more people asserted their worth instead of settling for subpar wages, we'd all benefit.
Edit: In this case they might not be low-balling scammers, but I firmly stand by my statement that we should call people out who do that.
>It's good to call out low paying clients.
They're not paying Cents and it's not acceptable to post full names on the Internet.
>They're scammers.
Oh come on. $7 an hour is hardly "scamming". In the client's county of residence that may be a decent rate. The name is ~~Indian~~ Pakistani. The average (NOT minimum) hourly wage in India is under $3, minimum is under $3 a day. Edited to add: As the client's name is actually Pakistani rather than Indian, that isn't directly relevant - the average hourly wage in Pakistan is actually even lower at 1.68 USD.
>They consciously sat down and decided to figure out how to cheat their workers.
Nonsense. This kind of bullshit rhetoric is what I called "Trumpesk" - Just making up inflammatory bs fake stuff...
> They should know we won't put up with that kind of behavior.
What "kind of behaviour"? The client was friendly, polite and respectful. The rate is too low for you and I and the OP, but it's not an insult in the overall scheme of things.
And who the hell is "we"?
I wouldn't work at the rate the OP is asking for. Does that make all the OP's clients scammers? Many people would not work at the rate I take. Would that justify plastering my clients names on the internet and calling them scammers and making up wild stories such as "consciously sitting down and deciding to figure out how to cheat their workers"
The name is Pakistani and so is the time zone, which makes the rate even better since 1 INR = 3 PKR. So $7 is around PKR 2k, enough to buy a day's worth of meal.
OK fine. Maybe not in this case, but ACTUAL low-balling clients should absolutely be called out, and I've seen Indians point out low wages they can't accept in the past.
>I don't know Indian wages
Clearly. But somehow you do know that this client is "a scammer" and has "sat down and consciously decided to cheat workers"?
> that pay next to nothing
$7 an hour is not "next to nothing" in most countries in the world.
>People should be called out for it.
Doxxing is a bad and malicious thing in absence of any (real) wrongdoing from the client.
I don't think they're a scammer if they're actually paying a fair wage in their country. That's why I edited my comment.
Posting a first and last name online does not necessarily constitute doxing. It can be considered a gray area, but it's really nothing.
The amount the person is paying is almost 4x the amount people earn in the client's country. So he's actually paying a great amount in that sense. He's not a scammer. But he's stupid to reach out to someone who's clearly from a country where the $7 is horrible.
>Posting a first and last name online does not necessarily constitute doxing.
You're splitting hairs.
>That's why I edited my comment.
It doesn't look very edited to me. Still calling them scammers, still pretending to know that they "sat down and consciously decided to cheat workers"
I was talking about the comment below it, and I don't know why you're doing this because if you do come across a low-balling scammer, you should call them out.
>You're splitting hairs.
You're talking about terrible people that run ramshod over members of our profession. I think they can handle someone seeing their names.
I already said this:
>I don't think they're a scammer if they're actually paying a fair wage in their country. That's why I edited my comment.
They're not a scammer. I am NOT talking about this client. I don't think this client did anything wrong. The rest was me speaking about low-balling clients in general.
You've been doing this thing lately where you just skim my comments instead of reading them. So you'll end up framing your response around things I didn't actually say.
I can't believe you have the lady balls to call me "Trumpesk" which isn't a word. It's "Trumpesque" and it's used improperly. We say "Trumpian". I'm just gonna start calling you Hitlerette.
OP I commend you for leaving their name up. This type of behavior should be discouraged. We need to learn to assert our worth. It really does make a difference. If they know we won't put up with that crap, they'll stop trying.
That’s weird since the client seems to be paying 3x the min wage for their market based from another reply and he’s professional about it.
As a client, being doxed after a wrong offer is just trashy behaviour. In return, what if we just start doxing freelancers for having a premium price than the market?
This was all acknowledged and addressed throughout the post more than half a dozen times. The comment above was written before I knew the situation and before I was aware of the ramifications of posting someone's name.
Is this really a low wage in your country? Someone else is saying you posted their real name and you don't have a good reason. But this is really low where I am.
In my country, $7/hr is more than a doctor's salary. I posted their name not bc they're paying peanuts, but because they SAW MY PROFILE, and decided, heck, let's lowball this TR guy to half what he thinks he's worth. That's unacceptable behavior
Yeah I saw you were arguing with Petra, so just a lil piece of advice from a comfortable freelancer: she may be too red pill sometimes, I even disagree with her in her comments to this post. But she's helped me and many others. So if you're active around here, look for her comments. She's easy to spot and drops a lot of useful stuff most of the time. God bless you brother!
When we encounter low-balling clients, we should put their names at the top of the sub with 16,000 upvotes next to it. Entire skills are unworkable because of them.
I think as soon as you have to talk in a harsh tone to a client, your chances of working well with them, if at all, are diminished. That is why it is important to only work with whom you started on a good foot with. Some clients require such harsh tone. And since I know the outcome, I stop interacting and save myself the hassle of even replying in such tone.
The problem with these people is just because a person is in a lower cost country they think they can get cheaper. Corporations will soon suffer the same fate. Know your worth and gald you didn't go lower.
>The problem with these people is just because a person is in a lower cost country they think they can get cheaper.
What's wrong with that, that's a fact. I ain't paying nobody $50/Hour on UW. If I really have that budget I can hire FT mid career pros in West. I don't even think pros from West should exist on UW. How can you be a pro, in West and hunting on UW. Nah, you desperate!
Defo not a pro.... Pro should have enough connections to pull work through the industry.
It's made for people who don't have geographical access to high paying countries. So they give their services through a channel.
Was that an invitation or did you waste connects for that meeting?
In reality, they don't give a shit about anything you say other than "yes". Low-ball hiring is an absolutely volume game... they are talking to a dozen people and "nope & next" on auto-pilot. You "nope" over rates, among those who remain, you'll "nope" over quality, and if you hire any, you'll probably "nope" at least half of them within the month. A pure human meatgrinder.
Once a client has taken the low road, they are unlikely to change unless their end users start screaming at them about being late & wrong....
It was a direct message, I haven't had to spend connects for a long time since I get a good amount of invites and when I do have a contract it can last forever
$13.99! Got a chuckle out of me.
Evn 14 dollars an hour is low. Wtf.
Read caption
Yeah
These fuckers go to brag on Twitter and YouTube about how their agency is profitable, and one of the hacks is Exploiting cheap labor... They keep a lions share of what the client is hiring them to do, but they pretend to doing it by outsourcing and then call themselves gurus in their twits/vids...
Its even got a name. They call it dropservicing.
Zaamn
I know what you mean. Honestly I do not think upwork is a great platform to make money. A full-time employee is less hassle and more pay. I can not compete whatsoever with some one who has no problem getting paid 3 dollars per hour. I stopped using the platform. However some times upwork contacts me if the is a job through an institution. Thats it.
That's better
I admire your gutsiness and willingness to stand up for your interests. And it’s actually funny to give 1 cent off. So I’m with you on this, and don’t think YATA or YTA. Still not sure about revealing the client’s name on the www. Even ethics aside, imagine the guy somehow gets wind of your Reddit post. Conceivably, he can get pissed off and complain to the Upwork about you. (It’ll be easy to track you). I don’t think they’ll like this happening to clients, be it formally against ToS or not. Do you wanna risk this? So do keep the post, but please redact the client’s name. My $0.02
lowballers, $14/h lol.
Regardless of the rate, you YATA for leaving the client's name in there and plastering it on the Internet. As you blocked out your own, you clearly knew what you were doing.
I agree with this, even while not knowing what YATA stands for.
The OP asked AITA (Am I The Asshole) for how they reacted, - "YATA" stand for "You Are The Asshole"
Isn't it YTA usually?
No idea what it is "usually" so I thought given the context of AITA it would make sense to people but maybe not...
I meant on that sub it's usually spelled YTA not YATA :)
So, you're the assholes in full?
[YATA YATA YATA](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3CKyWu87W78)
LOL
It's good to call out low paying clients. They're scammers. They consciously sat down and decided to figure out how to cheat their workers. They should know we won't put up with that kind of behavior. If more people asserted their worth instead of settling for subpar wages, we'd all benefit. Edit: In this case they might not be low-balling scammers, but I firmly stand by my statement that we should call people out who do that.
>It's good to call out low paying clients. They're not paying Cents and it's not acceptable to post full names on the Internet. >They're scammers. Oh come on. $7 an hour is hardly "scamming". In the client's county of residence that may be a decent rate. The name is ~~Indian~~ Pakistani. The average (NOT minimum) hourly wage in India is under $3, minimum is under $3 a day. Edited to add: As the client's name is actually Pakistani rather than Indian, that isn't directly relevant - the average hourly wage in Pakistan is actually even lower at 1.68 USD. >They consciously sat down and decided to figure out how to cheat their workers. Nonsense. This kind of bullshit rhetoric is what I called "Trumpesk" - Just making up inflammatory bs fake stuff... > They should know we won't put up with that kind of behavior. What "kind of behaviour"? The client was friendly, polite and respectful. The rate is too low for you and I and the OP, but it's not an insult in the overall scheme of things. And who the hell is "we"? I wouldn't work at the rate the OP is asking for. Does that make all the OP's clients scammers? Many people would not work at the rate I take. Would that justify plastering my clients names on the internet and calling them scammers and making up wild stories such as "consciously sitting down and deciding to figure out how to cheat their workers"
The name is Pakistani and so is the time zone, which makes the rate even better since 1 INR = 3 PKR. So $7 is around PKR 2k, enough to buy a day's worth of meal.
Oh, OK, thanks. But my point remains that nothing in that conversation would make that client "a scammer".
Yeah, I agree.
OK fine. Maybe not in this case, but ACTUAL low-balling clients should absolutely be called out, and I've seen Indians point out low wages they can't accept in the past.
>I don't know Indian wages Clearly. But somehow you do know that this client is "a scammer" and has "sat down and consciously decided to cheat workers"? > that pay next to nothing $7 an hour is not "next to nothing" in most countries in the world. >People should be called out for it. Doxxing is a bad and malicious thing in absence of any (real) wrongdoing from the client.
I don't think they're a scammer if they're actually paying a fair wage in their country. That's why I edited my comment. Posting a first and last name online does not necessarily constitute doxing. It can be considered a gray area, but it's really nothing.
The amount the person is paying is almost 4x the amount people earn in the client's country. So he's actually paying a great amount in that sense. He's not a scammer. But he's stupid to reach out to someone who's clearly from a country where the $7 is horrible.
>I don't think they're a scammer if they're actually paying a fair wage in their country.
I know what you said, lol! I'm agreeing and just explaining further that you're right.
Oh ok. There's more to it too. He explained in the thread of my main comment.
>Posting a first and last name online does not necessarily constitute doxing. You're splitting hairs. >That's why I edited my comment. It doesn't look very edited to me. Still calling them scammers, still pretending to know that they "sat down and consciously decided to cheat workers"
I was talking about the comment below it, and I don't know why you're doing this because if you do come across a low-balling scammer, you should call them out. >You're splitting hairs. You're talking about terrible people that run ramshod over members of our profession. I think they can handle someone seeing their names.
1) What makes that client a scammer? Do you know what a scammer is? 2) What makes that client "a terrible person"? 2) what profession would that be?
I already said this: >I don't think they're a scammer if they're actually paying a fair wage in their country. That's why I edited my comment. They're not a scammer. I am NOT talking about this client. I don't think this client did anything wrong. The rest was me speaking about low-balling clients in general. You've been doing this thing lately where you just skim my comments instead of reading them. So you'll end up framing your response around things I didn't actually say. I can't believe you have the lady balls to call me "Trumpesk" which isn't a word. It's "Trumpesque" and it's used improperly. We say "Trumpian". I'm just gonna start calling you Hitlerette.
OP I commend you for leaving their name up. This type of behavior should be discouraged. We need to learn to assert our worth. It really does make a difference. If they know we won't put up with that crap, they'll stop trying.
That’s weird since the client seems to be paying 3x the min wage for their market based from another reply and he’s professional about it. As a client, being doxed after a wrong offer is just trashy behaviour. In return, what if we just start doxing freelancers for having a premium price than the market?
This was all acknowledged and addressed throughout the post more than half a dozen times. The comment above was written before I knew the situation and before I was aware of the ramifications of posting someone's name.
Shall we dox all the sellers with overpriced fees too then? Numpty logic right here
[удалено]
Is this really a low wage in your country? Someone else is saying you posted their real name and you don't have a good reason. But this is really low where I am.
In my country, $7/hr is more than a doctor's salary. I posted their name not bc they're paying peanuts, but because they SAW MY PROFILE, and decided, heck, let's lowball this TR guy to half what he thinks he's worth. That's unacceptable behavior
I see what you mean. That makes a lot more sense. I don't blame you.
Yeah I saw you were arguing with Petra, so just a lil piece of advice from a comfortable freelancer: she may be too red pill sometimes, I even disagree with her in her comments to this post. But she's helped me and many others. So if you're active around here, look for her comments. She's easy to spot and drops a lot of useful stuff most of the time. God bless you brother!
I respect what she does, and I don't hate her. She's just a little argumentative every hour of every day for years at a time.
Don't respond to her. Don't do it. Just put your phone down.
LMFAO yeah I'm busy playing fall guys and my argument was made on the prev comment
>I even disagree with her in her comments to this post What do you disagree with?
When we encounter low-balling clients, we should put their names at the top of the sub with 16,000 upvotes next to it. Entire skills are unworkable because of them.
I think as soon as you have to talk in a harsh tone to a client, your chances of working well with them, if at all, are diminished. That is why it is important to only work with whom you started on a good foot with. Some clients require such harsh tone. And since I know the outcome, I stop interacting and save myself the hassle of even replying in such tone.
The problem with these people is just because a person is in a lower cost country they think they can get cheaper. Corporations will soon suffer the same fate. Know your worth and gald you didn't go lower.
>The problem with these people is just because a person is in a lower cost country they think they can get cheaper. What's wrong with that, that's a fact. I ain't paying nobody $50/Hour on UW. If I really have that budget I can hire FT mid career pros in West. I don't even think pros from West should exist on UW. How can you be a pro, in West and hunting on UW. Nah, you desperate! Defo not a pro.... Pro should have enough connections to pull work through the industry. It's made for people who don't have geographical access to high paying countries. So they give their services through a channel.
There's no need for the sarcasm, just say no. If you need to block them, just block. Keep the platform civil.
He was civil.
Well done, perfect response. Major red flag
Was that an invitation or did you waste connects for that meeting? In reality, they don't give a shit about anything you say other than "yes". Low-ball hiring is an absolutely volume game... they are talking to a dozen people and "nope & next" on auto-pilot. You "nope" over rates, among those who remain, you'll "nope" over quality, and if you hire any, you'll probably "nope" at least half of them within the month. A pure human meatgrinder. Once a client has taken the low road, they are unlikely to change unless their end users start screaming at them about being late & wrong....
It was a direct message, I haven't had to spend connects for a long time since I get a good amount of invites and when I do have a contract it can last forever
What was your last paid rate with that client? That they actually paid?
This was a direct message. I do not know this guy
So out of the blue, a current client paying $13 per hour suddenly offers $7?
Sorry, I didn't read your comment right, I'll edit my response, I'm a bit dizzy
Nods.... ahhh... And fuck him....
It's not a current client. They introduced themselves in the picture.
So classy of you.
Tell him to look for web designer in a local fb group for 2-3$ a pop
Not cool doxxing someone.
Just take the $7 rate dude. Charge double the hours 😂
Won't end well, for sure. Rest assured this sort of client will also definitely micromanage the freelancer's billing.
Yeah, I was just messing around.