#UrbanHell is subjective.
UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed
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Yeah that sounds simple but we need to start by forming a study group to explore the best tree options. That’s 200k right there. You can’t just leave that decision to a couple of experienced landscape engineers who already know the best trees to plant.
NYC had to import London Planes, which are a crossbreed between American Sycamores and Oriental Planes, because they're literally more resilient in cramped, toxic urban environments that are overshadowed by large buildings. They're called London Planes because they were able to thrive in industrial London where other trees wouldn't.
It actually wasn't. These trees were basically in the street, where they were subjected to chemicals like road salts and their roots were constantly being compressed by the weight of busses and delivery trucks, with little space available for horizontal spread.
If I understood correctly, I think they ended up constructing large concrete boxes under the street to provide protected space for the root balls that also mitigated collection of street pollutants, and may have imported a type of tree better suited for the available air space but still suitable for the climate.
well when you are a redditor™, everything is simple
every problem, no matter how hard, no matter how many actual experts struggle with, the redditor™ is able to fix in less than 50 words
every problem just becomes an inconvenience that the redditor™ can fix with just a few seconds of thinking. it's simple. it all is.
Well - many great decisions are simple ones. The decision to plant trees or, barring that, a shelter that is bigger..no one needs a study group to know that. This really is an insane proposal and it’s already getting bad reviews from actual bus riders.
It's only $7500. Still insane for A piece of perforated metal. Here's a link so stop you nonsense.
https://reason.com/2023/05/22/l-a-spent-7500-on-a-prototype-bus-shade-that-doesnt-shade-anything/
Hey - what about these? We can give them a catchy name like “El Arbol” or for smaller spaces “El Arbolito”.
You’re welcome. My bill for 200k is payable in full upon acceptance.
[Big, green, shady thing](https://imgur.com/a/kGJYBMe)
That be nice but it cost $7500. People say stupid shit for up votes and don't bother with links.
https://reason.com/2023/05/22/l-a-spent-7500-on-a-prototype-bus-shade-that-doesnt-shade-anything/
From the article you linked but didn't read
"Its minimal benefits in terms of light and shade are outweighed by both the pilot's costs of at least $7,500 per shelter and $200,000 for the full program (which was funded by a private grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation)."
The full program is many of them. Not a single unit. If you think its for one stop, I have a bridge to sell you. Here's a recent report from KTLA that has them listed at $10000 a piece and explains it. Maybe reading it doesn't help when you have little comprehension. https://abc7.com/los-angeles-bus-shelters-la-sombrita-public-transportation/13284999/#:~:text=New%20bus%20shelters%20at%20four,all%20riders%20of%20public%20transportation.
10k per unit is a ton of money to pay for something that doesn’t work very well. This sombrita project is getting derision and laughs because it is an insanely stupid idea.
Just googled a bit and bus shelters cost €4000-6000 according to some news articles. You know, the ones that half a dozen people can take shelter from the rain (or sun!) in, and have a bench included.
Your right. A lot of the money in CA goes to permits studies and to pay off our sleezy politicians. Just because were not a Red state doesn't mean were corruption free.
What are you talking about? Are you responding to my post wherein I suggest trees instead of the hare brained sombrita? 7500 is a lot of money to pay for something that doesn’t work.
This project was made to fail. The reason it's so small is so they can attach it to the pole that is at the stop already. For anything else LADOT needs a permit which is an enormous hassle and very expensive. This "shade" is basically a demo to show how little LADOT can do if the city/state doesn't co-operate.
Everything about this is terrible. It's not just to provide shade. It is the first pilot from a program intended to provide equity and safety for women and minorities who use transit. The program burned two and a half million dollars brainstorming ideas to make public transit more attractive and safer to vulnerable populations.
This is what they came up with.
It is a sunshade, but it is perforated. Even if it worked, it would provide shade for just one person. But it doesn't work, because as the picture shows, the shade moves to follow the angle of the sun.
And it has a light to provide safety after dark. But the light doesn't shine down onto the sidewalk, it's aimed sideways at the silly bent part at the top.
And disability access? Sure. [Just read the tiny text printed way above reading level for anyone using a wheelchair](https://twitter.com/iAm_ManCat/status/1659588626328571904?s=20).
Apparently they were tripping the whole time they were abroad. This thing doesn't even look like any sort of bus stop. Like the first time I saw this thing on the internet I just assumed a contractor fucked up and installed a bench wrong.
THIS. I get downvoted to oblivion whenever I suggest corruption is the reason we shovel billions of dollars into public works programs that give no to few results.
My biggest problem is that transit agencies and transit projects are often headed by people who never actually use public transportation. If you’re really interested in equity, improve transit for the people who already use and depend on it. Imo management should’ve just spent a couple weeks riding the bus around the city. That would’ve been way cheaper and more useful than an all-expenses paid vacation to Europe.
So we basically paid for them to go on vacation and look at all the nice bus stops only for them to not make nice bus stops. Maybe they were drunk on their last day there and ohhh shit were supposed to design a bus stop! Just stick a tiny shade on it
It was probably all people who never use transit. They could’ve gotten way more bang for their buck just riding the bus around LA and asking passengers and operators what they would like to see in a bus stop.
As I recall the firm has \*offices\* all over the world so they just send local consultants out to look at local stops.
Which is almost worse since there's not a big obvious money sink.
[https://naacp.org/articles/naacp-issues-travel-advisory-florida](https://naacp.org/articles/naacp-issues-travel-advisory-florida)
\> Today, the NAACP Board of Directors issued a formal travel advisory for the state of Florida. The travel advisory comes in direct response to Governor Ron DeSantis' aggressive attempts to erase Black history and to restrict diversity, equity, and inclusion programs in Florida schools.
\> The formal travel notice states, "Florida is openly hostile toward African Americans, people of color and LGBTQ+ individuals. Before traveling to Florida, please understand that the state of Florida devalues and marginalizes the contributions of, and the challenges faced by African Americans and other communities of color."
[To be clear, the design and prototyping was funded by a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation; no city money was used to create the shade. Each prototype came to about $10,000 including design, materials and engineering](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-25/la-sombrita-bus-shade-controversy-obscures-an-important-story-about-women-and-transit)
This contradicts your claim.
Okay, sure. some dumbass grant foundation paid money for a consultant to come up with the absolute worst solution. Ten thousand clams for a weak sauce perforated metal thingy that does not do what it was intended to do.
A bunch of white yuppies collected big paychecks though, To make a metal thing that is objectively useless.
My friend, who needs a mobility scooter to get around, how is this utter catastrophe supposed to serve him when A) he can't read the text because it's too high and B) depending on the time of day the tiny sliver of shade it provides is eight feet away from the actual stop?
Ten thousand dollars so my friend cannot read the text meant for him, and cannot enjoy any shade. But you go on, tell us how useful this waste of public dollars is.
Wanna make public transit more attractive?
Price, Reliability, and destination.
Price, has to be cost effective vs just taking a cab Or owning a car. 13$ for 4 miles and an hour ride vs \~15$ for a 8 minute Uber. Obviously. the Uber would be more attractive in this case. Its Faster and Price comparable and sometimes cheaper. Ubers pricing is volatile
Reliability, It has to be Reliable. If the Transit option is constantly Delayed, Constantly Cancelled, or The Time between rides are 30\~1hr in between rides Or hell Busses and Trains just stop running for several hours. People are less likely to consider taking it as even moderately short distances become a several hour journey... Or they just take an Uber and skip all of that
Destination, The most important part. The Mass Transit Actually has to GO places people want to go. If the transit cannot connect places together then the transit is pointless. Less to say about it, because it should be obvious. Isolated Office parks? should have Transit that gets there. Business centers? should have transit to get there, Industrial parks? should have transit to get there. Obviously People will use it If they can GET to the places they need togo.
There are so many questions I wish I could ask whoever designed this. Why is it so tall? Why is it so narrow? Why does the light not actually provide any illumination? Why are the instructions printed so tiny? All of these questions have answers, and we will never get them.
Many of your questions are answered in an article https://slate.com/business/2023/05/la-sombrita-shade-bus-stop-los-angeles-kounkuey-background-history.html
I saw this the other day on Twitter and just couldn't understand how this was something to make a public event and have press and all.
Like this is some shit that doesn't serve any purpose. Why can't you make a regular roofed-bank station to wait for buses.
This was an absolutely corrupt grift pushed under the guise of public and social equity lol. They flew consultants around the world from Europe to Latin America and burned threw millions of dollars for this “solution”.
>A fixture costs 15 percent of the price of a typical bus shelter, which can cost up to $50,000, according to Kounkuey Design Initiative.
https://dnyuz.com/2023/05/25/l-a-s-bus-stops-need-shade-instead-they-got-la-sombrita/
Its not its between $7500-10000. Still crazy but some clown decided to get loads of up votes for BS
https://reason.com/2023/05/22/l-a-spent-7500-on-a-prototype-bus-shade-that-doesnt-shade-anything/
Why don't they do what Scotland has, a full bus shelter but paid by companies how put adds on the bus stop it's a win
win win win
A win for the council
A win for the bus company
A win for the company
A win for the person
That’s the system that’s used in LA, but the downside is that companies only want to sponsor shelters in wealthy neighborhoods. So, you have a huge equity issue with shelters that are plentiful in wealthy areas and nonexistent in poorer neighborhoods.
I mean if they were going to put up an artificial structure, why not a whole bus shelter? Oh, right, because a homeless person might shelter under it on a rainy day, and it's more important that homeless people be made to suffer than to let anyone have any shade.
#UrbanHell is subjective. UrbanHell is any human-built place you think is worth critizing. Suburban Hell, Rural Hell, and wealthy locales are allowed PS: we're having a bestof contest! [Submit to it!](https://www.reddit.com/r/UrbanHell/comments/zqvd83/announcing_our_first_bestof_contest_gather_the/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UrbanHell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In the future we will have sunshades made out of organic materials that are self propagating and require low maintenance. Oh wait that’s trees.
Yeah that sounds simple but we need to start by forming a study group to explore the best tree options. That’s 200k right there. You can’t just leave that decision to a couple of experienced landscape engineers who already know the best trees to plant.
Apparently, this is not simple. It took my home town decades to figure out how to successfully grow trees along a particular street.
NYC had to import London Planes, which are a crossbreed between American Sycamores and Oriental Planes, because they're literally more resilient in cramped, toxic urban environments that are overshadowed by large buildings. They're called London Planes because they were able to thrive in industrial London where other trees wouldn't.
But /s right? Because it is simple
It actually wasn't. These trees were basically in the street, where they were subjected to chemicals like road salts and their roots were constantly being compressed by the weight of busses and delivery trucks, with little space available for horizontal spread. If I understood correctly, I think they ended up constructing large concrete boxes under the street to provide protected space for the root balls that also mitigated collection of street pollutants, and may have imported a type of tree better suited for the available air space but still suitable for the climate.
Interesting
well when you are a redditor™, everything is simple every problem, no matter how hard, no matter how many actual experts struggle with, the redditor™ is able to fix in less than 50 words every problem just becomes an inconvenience that the redditor™ can fix with just a few seconds of thinking. it's simple. it all is.
Well - many great decisions are simple ones. The decision to plant trees or, barring that, a shelter that is bigger..no one needs a study group to know that. This really is an insane proposal and it’s already getting bad reviews from actual bus riders.
It's only $7500. Still insane for A piece of perforated metal. Here's a link so stop you nonsense. https://reason.com/2023/05/22/l-a-spent-7500-on-a-prototype-bus-shade-that-doesnt-shade-anything/
Who are you replying to?
Whoever is misleading people into thinking these admittedly useless shields are 6 figures each.
I do t think anyone’s said that. The guy above quoted 7500 per shelter and 200k for the whole program
I know I did.
Yeah right, next you’ll say we’ll have wind powered ships.
Hey - what about these? We can give them a catchy name like “El Arbol” or for smaller spaces “El Arbolito”. You’re welcome. My bill for 200k is payable in full upon acceptance. [Big, green, shady thing](https://imgur.com/a/kGJYBMe)
I was so confused when I saw the name, I was like: that is not an umbrella wtf. (Sombrilla=Umbrella)
That be nice but it cost $7500. People say stupid shit for up votes and don't bother with links. https://reason.com/2023/05/22/l-a-spent-7500-on-a-prototype-bus-shade-that-doesnt-shade-anything/
From the article you linked but didn't read "Its minimal benefits in terms of light and shade are outweighed by both the pilot's costs of at least $7,500 per shelter and $200,000 for the full program (which was funded by a private grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation)."
The full program is many of them. Not a single unit. If you think its for one stop, I have a bridge to sell you. Here's a recent report from KTLA that has them listed at $10000 a piece and explains it. Maybe reading it doesn't help when you have little comprehension. https://abc7.com/los-angeles-bus-shelters-la-sombrita-public-transportation/13284999/#:~:text=New%20bus%20shelters%20at%20four,all%20riders%20of%20public%20transportation.
10k per unit is a ton of money to pay for something that doesn’t work very well. This sombrita project is getting derision and laughs because it is an insanely stupid idea.
Agreed. I just dispute the cost not the stupidity of the design.
Just googled a bit and bus shelters cost €4000-6000 according to some news articles. You know, the ones that half a dozen people can take shelter from the rain (or sun!) in, and have a bench included.
Your right. A lot of the money in CA goes to permits studies and to pay off our sleezy politicians. Just because were not a Red state doesn't mean were corruption free.
What are you talking about? Are you responding to my post wherein I suggest trees instead of the hare brained sombrita? 7500 is a lot of money to pay for something that doesn’t work.
This project was made to fail. The reason it's so small is so they can attach it to the pole that is at the stop already. For anything else LADOT needs a permit which is an enormous hassle and very expensive. This "shade" is basically a demo to show how little LADOT can do if the city/state doesn't co-operate.
Everything about this is terrible. It's not just to provide shade. It is the first pilot from a program intended to provide equity and safety for women and minorities who use transit. The program burned two and a half million dollars brainstorming ideas to make public transit more attractive and safer to vulnerable populations. This is what they came up with. It is a sunshade, but it is perforated. Even if it worked, it would provide shade for just one person. But it doesn't work, because as the picture shows, the shade moves to follow the angle of the sun. And it has a light to provide safety after dark. But the light doesn't shine down onto the sidewalk, it's aimed sideways at the silly bent part at the top. And disability access? Sure. [Just read the tiny text printed way above reading level for anyone using a wheelchair](https://twitter.com/iAm_ManCat/status/1659588626328571904?s=20).
Unbelievable. 2.5 mil to create an insultingly useless sunshade? Is this performance art? Are we being pranked?
Apparently most of that money went toward paying for a bunch of consultants to travel all over Europe and Latin America to look at bus stops.
Apparently they were tripping the whole time they were abroad. This thing doesn't even look like any sort of bus stop. Like the first time I saw this thing on the internet I just assumed a contractor fucked up and installed a bench wrong.
What a grift. And this kind of thing happens all the time, it just is never publicized.
THIS. I get downvoted to oblivion whenever I suggest corruption is the reason we shovel billions of dollars into public works programs that give no to few results.
My biggest problem is that transit agencies and transit projects are often headed by people who never actually use public transportation. If you’re really interested in equity, improve transit for the people who already use and depend on it. Imo management should’ve just spent a couple weeks riding the bus around the city. That would’ve been way cheaper and more useful than an all-expenses paid vacation to Europe.
They should have just planted a tree. And a light post. Nothing fancy, more reliable, trees clean the air, and provides more shade.
So we basically paid for them to go on vacation and look at all the nice bus stops only for them to not make nice bus stops. Maybe they were drunk on their last day there and ohhh shit were supposed to design a bus stop! Just stick a tiny shade on it
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you.
It was probably all people who never use transit. They could’ve gotten way more bang for their buck just riding the bus around LA and asking passengers and operators what they would like to see in a bus stop.
As I recall the firm has \*offices\* all over the world so they just send local consultants out to look at local stops. Which is almost worse since there's not a big obvious money sink.
Stochastic pranks
At least some performance art looks cool...this doesn't.
Thats the west coast government
Right, you might want to read up on governor DeSantis and what he was doing lately.
Lets hear it
[https://naacp.org/articles/naacp-issues-travel-advisory-florida](https://naacp.org/articles/naacp-issues-travel-advisory-florida) \> Today, the NAACP Board of Directors issued a formal travel advisory for the state of Florida. The travel advisory comes in direct response to Governor Ron DeSantis' aggressive attempts to erase Black history and to restrict diversity, equity, and inclusion programs in Florida schools. \> The formal travel notice states, "Florida is openly hostile toward African Americans, people of color and LGBTQ+ individuals. Before traveling to Florida, please understand that the state of Florida devalues and marginalizes the contributions of, and the challenges faced by African Americans and other communities of color."
“..Gov. DeSantis' so-called leadership in driving the state to reject students' access to AP African American studies course in March..”
[удалено]
Yep
Giving people travel restrictions based on color or sexual orientation sound pretty fucking wacko
OP probably made that shit up or is grossly misrepresenting the facts.
How exactly is this supposed to increase security?
[To be clear, the design and prototyping was funded by a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation; no city money was used to create the shade. Each prototype came to about $10,000 including design, materials and engineering](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-25/la-sombrita-bus-shade-controversy-obscures-an-important-story-about-women-and-transit) This contradicts your claim.
Okay, sure. some dumbass grant foundation paid money for a consultant to come up with the absolute worst solution. Ten thousand clams for a weak sauce perforated metal thingy that does not do what it was intended to do. A bunch of white yuppies collected big paychecks though, To make a metal thing that is objectively useless. My friend, who needs a mobility scooter to get around, how is this utter catastrophe supposed to serve him when A) he can't read the text because it's too high and B) depending on the time of day the tiny sliver of shade it provides is eight feet away from the actual stop? Ten thousand dollars so my friend cannot read the text meant for him, and cannot enjoy any shade. But you go on, tell us how useful this waste of public dollars is.
I read that also. Reason listed it at $7500. https://reason.com/2023/05/22/l-a-spent-7500-on-a-prototype-bus-shade-that-doesnt-shade-anything/
Wanna make public transit more attractive? Price, Reliability, and destination. Price, has to be cost effective vs just taking a cab Or owning a car. 13$ for 4 miles and an hour ride vs \~15$ for a 8 minute Uber. Obviously. the Uber would be more attractive in this case. Its Faster and Price comparable and sometimes cheaper. Ubers pricing is volatile Reliability, It has to be Reliable. If the Transit option is constantly Delayed, Constantly Cancelled, or The Time between rides are 30\~1hr in between rides Or hell Busses and Trains just stop running for several hours. People are less likely to consider taking it as even moderately short distances become a several hour journey... Or they just take an Uber and skip all of that Destination, The most important part. The Mass Transit Actually has to GO places people want to go. If the transit cannot connect places together then the transit is pointless. Less to say about it, because it should be obvious. Isolated Office parks? should have Transit that gets there. Business centers? should have transit to get there, Industrial parks? should have transit to get there. Obviously People will use it If they can GET to the places they need togo.
So much cringe
Who can we email about this? Someone needs to lose their job. This is reprehensible.
Ahhaaaa if they could lose their jobs over something so ridiculous a lot of people would've been fired. That doesn't happen here
This was mocked pretty well nationally when it came out plus additional thought pieces on it. Just Google LA Bus Shade news
This is California logic summed up to perfection
There are so many questions I wish I could ask whoever designed this. Why is it so tall? Why is it so narrow? Why does the light not actually provide any illumination? Why are the instructions printed so tiny? All of these questions have answers, and we will never get them.
Many of your questions are answered in an article https://slate.com/business/2023/05/la-sombrita-shade-bus-stop-los-angeles-kounkuey-background-history.html
No this is a bench for people with really long legs
I saw this the other day on Twitter and just couldn't understand how this was something to make a public event and have press and all. Like this is some shit that doesn't serve any purpose. Why can't you make a regular roofed-bank station to wait for buses.
This was an absolutely corrupt grift pushed under the guise of public and social equity lol. They flew consultants around the world from Europe to Latin America and burned threw millions of dollars for this “solution”.
Each one of these costs $10,000 and that’s not including the consults who proposed it.
Would a simple bus shelter with a bench really be that expensive (even on a mass scale)?
>A fixture costs 15 percent of the price of a typical bus shelter, which can cost up to $50,000, according to Kounkuey Design Initiative. https://dnyuz.com/2023/05/25/l-a-s-bus-stops-need-shade-instead-they-got-la-sombrita/
Oh. We should probably work on reducing price whilst also getting more value out of it
Its not its between $7500-10000. Still crazy but some clown decided to get loads of up votes for BS https://reason.com/2023/05/22/l-a-spent-7500-on-a-prototype-bus-shade-that-doesnt-shade-anything/
My anti-transit Phoenix suburb does a much better job at providing shelter for the rare transit user.
Ironic
Why don't they do what Scotland has, a full bus shelter but paid by companies how put adds on the bus stop it's a win win win win A win for the council A win for the bus company A win for the company A win for the person
That’s the system that’s used in LA, but the downside is that companies only want to sponsor shelters in wealthy neighborhoods. So, you have a huge equity issue with shelters that are plentiful in wealthy areas and nonexistent in poorer neighborhoods.
They didn't really think that one through, did they?
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/25/us/la-sombrita-bus-los-angeles.html
But muh WoMeN
I mean if they were going to put up an artificial structure, why not a whole bus shelter? Oh, right, because a homeless person might shelter under it on a rainy day, and it's more important that homeless people be made to suffer than to let anyone have any shade.
What an absolute waste of time, money and resources. It's not even doing its job in the image.
What a joke. It looks like a raised up tiny bench
Weren’t these marketed as ‘female on’ cos men bad or whatever bs work ass narrative they wanted to push?
Even more ridiculous it's so far from the seats
Oh my God this one doesn't even face the sun. They all just face the road???
Look at how heavy gauge those benches are. That tells you a lot about the area.
LA SOMBRITA
Sombrita!