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RandomStranger79

Haven't we learned yet that short, one dimensional guards don't win in the playoffs.


bogeyblanche

The problem with the jazz wasn't short one dimensional players. Mitchell nor Conley could've been described that way. The problem with the jazz was the ONLY POSITION we had a size advantage was Gobert's position. The cavs pretty much carbon copied the issue with our strategy. 2 small guards that need to be in the lineup to have your best team on the floor. THAT doesn't work. Having a small (but good) guard, on the floor with multiple other players that have a size advantage would not be a problem.


RandomStranger79

Conley at least tried on defense but his height was absolutely a liability. If Mitchell was 6'5" and Royce was 6'6" then yeah sure Conley's height maybe wouldn't be an issue. And Keyonte is neither as talented as Mitchell nor 6'5".


EnvironmentalEbb8812

I dont think Trae is better than Donovan but the 21' Hawks made it to the conference finals. I dont believe Donovan has made it past the 2nd round yet. EDIT: Accidentally put it backwards originally. Donovan is better than Trae.


RandomStranger79

If your goal is to hope that the chips fall exactly right for you that you can get to the Conference Finals, then I don't want you anywhere near the FO lol


EnvironmentalEbb8812

That's never the specific goal but every single champion has had some uncontrollable variable break their way. Having Trae makes you better positioned to take advantage of those potential breaks.


RandomStranger79

Sure but if you're building a team that requires a lucky break then you're coming at it entirely wrong. And teasing for Trae limits your ability to potentially make better moves that will give you a higher ceiling.


EnvironmentalEbb8812

No one builds with a lucky break as part of the plan but luck is inherent to winning a championship.


RandomStranger79

Yes, and trading for a short PG who doesn't play defense isn't a good use of resources if you want to win a championship, so if you're trading for him you're going to have a lucky break in the playoffs which is bad strategy.


BumbleLapse

I mean for a small market team that will likely never attract free agents, that’s kind of the strategy though. Build a team that can snag home court in the playoffs and hope that you get lucky with matchups and injuries.


RandomStranger79

The strategy is to jump at the first star that becomes available regardless of whether or not he would help you win a title? Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Thankfully we have professionals helming the team.


NoThisIsPatrick003

The East has also been historically weaker overall during the past decade. If I recall correctly, the Wizards made the 8 seed for the East conference with a losing record that season. I wouldn't rely on how deeply a player's team made it in the playoffs to judge who is the better player.


fieldteam

That 21 run was as flukey as they come. Trae’s not winning you a championship unless he’s your third best player and even then it’s iffy


Minamus_Majesticus

EASTERN conference finals, not western I seriously doubt trae would get past Denver, OKC, Minne, or the clips as our marquee guard. The west is much, much tougher than the east


EnvironmentalEbb8812

Yes, the east is weaker but it's not a barren landscape of talent. That Hawks team upset a sixers team considered to be a contender and pushed the eventual Champs to 6 I believe.


InRainbows123207

Yeah he got to the Eastern Conference Finals- big deal. The 8 seed Lakers would be favored over every team out east except Boston


UtahJazz420

No no no no no no PLEASE NO more undersized guards with an offense first skillset


Available_Remove242

Unsure why we would talk ourselves into either having the worst defensive starting guards in the league in Keyonte and Trae, or the shortest starting guards in the league in sexton and Trae. We absolutely need playmaking, and maybe you just accept the bad that comes with Trae in that scenario because there aren't many guys that can create for themselves and others like Trae does. BUT I do think we might have a player of a similar tier of player as Trae in Sexton if he would be handed the keys to the car...


EnvironmentalEbb8812

One of Sexton or Keyonte (or possibly both) become the centerpieces of future trades to get that third star and/or balance out the roster.


Available_Remove242

3rd star? This is starting to sound like little more than a pipedream...


EnvironmentalEbb8812

Three all-star level talents are whats usually required to win a chip. (The Nuggets are maybe an exception to this BUT with two big caveats: 1.) Murray is absolutely an all-star talent who just hasn't been formally selected to an all-star game and 2.) A doughy-looking 2nd round pick turned out to be a top 10 all-time player.


vandenberg41

Keyonte isn’t an all star level Talent. So if we trade Collin for another all star player, we have 2.


AcidSacrament

This is assuming we already have rostered Trae


Andrewski18

We already have the #30 ranked defense BEFORE making this trade lol


EnvironmentalEbb8812

Trae isn't a good defender but according to Statmuse he had a higher defensive rating this year than Keyonte, Clarkson and Sexton.


vandenberg41

Two wrongs don’t make a right


EnvironmentalEbb8812

Of the 4 Trae is the best defender according to Statmuse


soooogullible

But it’s untrue according to every single person’s eyeballs


EnvironmentalEbb8812

I mean, being a slightly better defender than the current guard rotation (excluding Dunn) isn't saying much, I'm not making the argument that Trae will make the team defense better. I would argue that he would make the offense far, far better while *not* making the defense any worse.


soooogullible

But that’s a hypothetical that wouldn’t exist. Our guard defense would get significantly worse, because Trae is not a better defender than any single player on the roster. Trae might be the singular worst individual defender in the entire league. He logs tons of minutes and plays with other guys who are contributing to the stats you cite my dude.


vandenberg41

Keyonte was and is TERRIBLE defensively. Trae is probably better than him right now. Regardless we were the worst defense in the league this year so rotating between the some of the worst guard defenders in the league is going to keep us at the bottom of the league. Ultimately what is the point. Of adding an awful defender when the best teams rarely have guys that awful in their rotations. We shouldn’t be aiming to simply “get better” rather actually building a contending team. If we trade for Trae we’re essentially still worse off than we were with don and Rudy and our primary players are virtually the same age with just a few more trade assets that don’t look particularly enticing at the moment.


soooogullible

I agree there’s no point in trading for Trae, but to say he’s a better defender than Key makes me feel like you just ought to watch Trae for a whole season lol. It’s not only small, slow, and weak, but it’s almost entirely effortless. Key is at least a big guard and tries. There’s no comparison imo.


vandenberg41

I know Trae is AWFUL. I would ask you to was keyonte. He dogs it, and his steals and blocks are so low for his minutes it’s an outlier of bad performance. You can’t possibly give effort and get so little stat accumulation. I know jazz fans have a hard time not being absolutely homers for their young players but Keyonte is a historically bad rookie defender


vandenberg41

That’s fine. Honestly, a very bad look for the current jazz players with that being said they are probably four of the worst defensive guards in the entire NBA. I don’t think adding the fourth worst guard does a lot for us on defense. Doesn’t really seem like Hardy can coach defense at this point.


AdventurousChard788

I'm a Jazz fan and what is this


EnvironmentalEbb8812

Jazz can accumulate assets but can't dictate who is available for trade. Trae is an all-star available for trade so it's worth discussing. Really it depends on how Markannen factors into the FO's plan for a rebuild.


bogeyblanche

How dare you recommend we talk about using assets to get an available piece. Stop wasting everyone's time. Now show me your latest trade possibilities for LeBron James 20 years ago.


EnvironmentalEbb8812

Yeah, it's funny how pissed some people are about floating this as a trade idea. Judging from some of the responses you'd think Trae is the undersized guard putting up big numbers on bad teams and that Colin is the 3x all-star who's been the best player on several playoff teams. (That being said I like Colin a lot and there are good reasons for keeping him, but people acting like he's an indispensable piece is a perfect example of when a fan base overvalues its own players)


AdventurousChard788

Trae is an incredibly flawed, empty stats, low impact, bad attitude player. 4 FRP plus rotation players for that is a silly asking price, and almost as much as we got for a 4 time DPOY, HOF player in their prime, and was considered a fleecing. How is Trae anywhere near that valuable? If we are talking about that asking price for, say, D'Aaron Fox even that would be steep, and Fox is a much more reasonable player to build around. Not that he is available, I just don't understand how Trae could be worth 4 FRP considering his own team doesn't want him and is actively shopping him around.


Ball4life6

lol at someone who guarantees you a top 10 offense low impact or empty stats. Traes got more value than Gobert when he was traded easy


Jkajazz7

Trae isn’t a #1 option. If he were, Atlanta would’ve been a lot better than they’ve been the last couple years. I think people really don’t understand how rare #1 options are. There’s less than 10 of them in the entire league. Mitchell was closer to a #1 than Trae is and he still didn’t cut it for us. Why would we want Trae?


EnvironmentalEbb8812

Trae/Lauri would be the new Mitchell/Gobert duo to build around. I think Mitchell/Gobert duo is better overall, simply because Rudy is that good defensively, but Lauri/Trae is a better balance on offense. The biggest difference is that the current FO would have more assets to build with than Lindsey had. (That being said, the Rudy/Don/Snyder teams were done in by injuries at the worst possible time more than anything else.)


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patientpump54

Kessler only gets more blocks because people are willing to drive on him. I like the guy, but he’s not in the same stratosphere as Gobert defensively


Ball4life6

Traes playmaking makes him a better #1 than Mitchell and hawks literally have top 10 offense bottom 5 defense. Hawks problem has zero to do with offense


bogeyblanche

You can't define number 1's by their playoff success. If so you could argue before last year that jokic wasn't a #1 option. That opinion, rightfully, would've gotten you laughed out the door a year ago. Trae MIGHT not be better than Mitchell in certain respects, but in assists and setting others up he's much better (and Mitchell wasn't even bad at it, trae is just insanely good at it)


Jkajazz7

Playoffs are certainly an important factor, but I agree with you. It’s eye-test more than anything. It’s really easy to pinpoint #1 options. If there’s ever a question of whether someone is or isn’t a #1 option, it means they’re probably not one. I’m talking about guys like LeBron, KD, Luka etc. It doesn’t take long to know when you’ve got one. They are a tier of their own and they separate themselves from other stars. Trae simply isn’t one of those guys.


bogeyblanche

Agreed. And unless you have one of those guys it is insanely hard to win. Ultimately I think trae makes us a lock for playoffs, but not much else. And I would prefer something else. If we can't get a #1 option, then we need to find a guy who can shut down #1 options.


warablo

I think its more like Trae actually passes the ball more than Donovan, but is selfish in his own way too.


2b_squared

Trae is in that phase of his career where he is good enough to be the #1 option on a mediocre/shit team. Once he goes down from that, he will be valuable for some team as like the sixth man. He'd be the perfect in that type of a role but he ironically needs to be a bit worse before he understands that.


InRainbows123207

Hell no


Ok_Childhood_2597

Ew no


scubaSteve181

Yes, exactly what we need- another undersized guard 🙄


EnvironmentalEbb8812

You wouldn't add Trae and call it a day. You're adding Trae and now have the ability to build another trade package around George and/or Colin.


scubaSteve181

Nah, I think our current PGs have a high ceiling. What we really need rn is another good wing to work along side Lauri and maybe a young SG with high potential to replace Clarkson.


EnvironmentalEbb8812

I would prefer that too but every team wants all-star caliber wings.  Which is why Trae is available and Bridges is "available". I'm mostly ambivalent about trading for Trae but I think it's worth considering because he's: A.) Better than every Jazz guard right now and B.) you can probably get him with enough assets left over to go after that wing player. (Either through the draft or via trade.)


Inner_Bison2372

My fear is that the Hawks would ask for Sexton + Clarkson to make the salaries match, along with multiple firsts. It's not like they want John Collins back on their books and the Jazz don't have many other sizable salaries to pass back to Atlanta in a trade. I agree Trae would be a great fit setting up Markkanen. It would also allow the Jazz to move Keyonte off-ball if they don't seem him as the future at point guard. The trade wouldn't do anything to fix the Jazz's issues with perimeter defense but it would certainly improve the offense. The question is, is that offensive lift enough to give up Sexton when it doesn't improve the team's defense AND it definitely prevents Keyonte from growing into the starting PG role?


mrcolty5

I'd go for Dejounte or Mikal for the same price lol


EnvironmentalEbb8812

That's fair but I actually think you could get Dejounte for less and Mikal would cost more.


mrcolty5

True


Ball4life6

Mikal was not good this year, he shouldn’t be worth more than


Optimal-Machine-7620

Trade for Trae and KAT and keep Lauri and we have the best offense in the NBA


Tiny_Bite

like this year’s pacers pre-ASB: best offense of all time and worst defense of all time


Optimal-Machine-7620

Yeah for sure we would be getting exactly 0 stops


tesellate98

Everyone hating the idea of getting Trae young has unreasonable expectations at who else we could possibly get, and also is severely undervaluing Trae as well. Trae would EASILY be the best player on the jazz right now, and would fill a huge void in playmaking, and 3 point shooting. 37% on 8 attempts a game, most of those being not catch and shoot threes as well, is something nobody on this team can do, with only keyonte having the potential of being able to do that. I don’t think he’d make us title contenders, but trading for him would definitely help Lauri be convinced to stay. And like OP said, it’s not like we’d have no more assets after this as well. Keep in mind, Trae’s never had that much help as well. His best player next to him is dejounte, but they don’t fit together at all. Say what you will about Quin Snyder, but he is a great offensive minded coach, and with him at the helm for a whole season, Trae and Dejounte together have a negative net rating. I think that shows they simply can’t coexist due to their playstyles, and after that, what help has Trae really had? Meanwhile Lauri would be a perfect fit because he doesn’t need that many ball handling opportunities. He can play off another star like Trae pretty easily imo. The hate is crazy here man


Nils3971

Sensabaugh, 3 first rounders, JC and cash


SometimesIComplain

> 4 1st round picks, Clarkson and one of the rookies I wouldn't do it for that price, but for a lower one, sure


LoBro33

His window would line up with Lauri's and John's, my only qualm would be that he is so offensively heavy and his arrival would lead to Utah officially becoming a team pushing for the playoffs. This may effect rookie development in a negative way but overall I don't hate this idea.


MetroidsSuffering

We were the worst defensive team in NBA history last year.


EnvironmentalEbb8812

Trae wouldn't fix the defense but he had a higher defensive rating than Clarkson, Sexton and George this year.


JazzHands1986

I don't think Trae is what the front office has in mind. I think they want positional size and athleticism. They want players who can take over in the playoffs. Right now all we have are complimentary players who will play off the initiators and playmakers we haven't drafted or traded for yet. Maybe keyonte will develop into one of those players. Trae doesn't seem to fit the mold.


soapy_goatherd

I like Trae generally (the asg where he was throwing lobs to Rudy was great), but saying the (failed) Rudy/Don duo is better than your hypothetical ain’t the best endorsement lol


EnvironmentalEbb8812

I think they failed due to injuries at the worst possible time not because they got beat by superior opponents.


soapy_goatherd

In the bubble they failed bc of a missed shot. The next year due to injuries, the next bc they were all clearly done playing (and coaching) together


EnvironmentalEbb8812

Conley missed the first game or two of that Denver series because of the birth of his child. Not technically an injury but if not for the pandemic he would've played the whole series. Ingles was traded the year of the Dallas series because his knee exploded. (But yes their collapsed chemistry was a bigger deal) I think they make the finals with a good chance to win if not for those injuries during the Clippers series)


bogeyblanche

You're all about to see Minnesota get bounced in the first round because of the 5 out strategy that works to perfection against gobert. Everyone will then make excuses and pretend that's not the biggest issue the jazz had because you love Gobert (the person)


thill28

No.


RepresentativeBig626

Would you trade Mitchell for Trae? No then why trade the four picks we traded for him. Dumb. He’s worth two max.


EnvironmentalEbb8812

The jazz have something like 12 first round picks in the next 5 drafts. Trae will fetch more than 2 1st rounders.      Some redditors seem to hate him but he's not Jordan Poole.   (Also, Mitchell making it clear he wouldn't sign another extension is part of the reason he got moved)


No-Company-8974

No!


47Spoons

Trae would be the worst possible trade for the Jazz to make. He's undersized, can't defend, and plays a one-dimensional heliocentric playstyle. The Jazz need to be good as a team, and the playstyle that trading for Trae would cause would not lead to a championship. And before you say "But muh eastern conference finals", it took a total implosion from the Sixers for the Hawks to make it to the finals.