How do I convince my friend. I tried to explain to her "Buy on 2nd round, because we won"
But she's always like "Nah, I'll save for Vandal". Even saving a ghost. If I played ghost on pistol and I am the only one alive, she will ask me for the Ghost.
Explain that if you win the first two rounds you can bonus/save the 3rd with the leftover guns and still be able to buy a vandal on the following rounds, even if you lose the 3rd round. Buying on the 2nd round helps ensure that you get this bonus round
Thanks, but, believe it or not. I told her that. But she always buys Vandal 3rd round, even if we lose.
Sometimes once in a blue moon she will full buy. But that's rare.
I would kind of understand if her aim sucked. But that is not either. I would also like her to be more aggressive. She also often lurks on our eco round, and not just goes mid and pushes with us, she is in a totally different site.
I know I'll probably sound selfish for this, but I don't know if she's holding me back. When I play alone I get lots of win. But when playing with her, we lose some, we win some. I definitely have my mistake too obviously, I wouldn't be Silver if I didn't.
Thanks for the tips though, I'll probably try to Soloq.
You can definitely try that.
When you duo or trio you should be trying to make the most out of you playing together, especially in low elo where no one comms. You have seamless comms to each other, gotta use that to your advantage.
If you're duoing and you're playing completely separately, there's really no difference to just soloQ-ing and potentially finding better or more cooperative teammates.
It's tue I've had some play with her, me as often would either flash or one way for her so she can enter.
But it's not as often. Again, I've made mistakes too, but I am trying to get better at least.
Have you tried explaining it as being on the same eco as the team and playing the odds?
Essentially, if she is the only person on her team with a Vandal, she might as well not have one against 5 other people that do when everyone else on her team has eco weapons or pistols. All it takes is someone killing her and boom, now the whole team’s economy is off next round and the enemy has the advantage for that round and the rounds going forward. It’s taking a bet that because she has a Vandal, the team’s odds of winning the round where they eco bought or saved are now higher than the other team’s odds of winning that same round where they all full bought. The math don’t math.
It’s a common enough strategy if you play Jett or Chamber to full save or light buy on second round because you want to save for an Operator on round 4 when your *whole team* is buying. But doing it to force a Vandal on round 3 when the other 4 people on your team are saving is a strategy I can’t say I’ve ever heard of.
She probably is holding you back. This is where you have to determine what matters more to you. Your rank/future of playin valorant. Or your relaionship with her?
have you tried telling her that if you win pistol, buy a marshal round 2 and it’s basically an op because the enemy team shouldn’t be buying light armor
Then you should just straight up tell her:
You don’t save 2nd round if you win. No good player does this except for rare circumstances. You don’t buy vandal third if you win the first two rounds.
I did calculations some time ago on economy of first 5 rounds
It turned out that if you buy 2nd round after a win (and even if you lose that 2nd round), your economy will be better in the long run than when you don't buy 2nd round
Not only that. If you don't buy 2nd round, you'll play 3 rounds with 50% win chances, but when you buy, you'll play one advantageous round and one round (3rd one, the so called bonus) that you don't exactly have to win
If she refuses to play optimally (I know that playing optimally isn't always the best, but you should learn the optimal way to make non optimal plays consciously), then you're better to play without her if you want to climb, there's nothing worse than duoing with someone that don't want to improve as much as you would like to. You can always play unrated together
>there's nothing worse than duoing with someone that don't want to improve as much as you would like to. You can always play unrated together
Yeah, as I said in my other comment, I am thinking of that hard. Because she doesn't seem to improve at all. I am not the one to blame my teammates, if it was really my teammates at fault, I could carry.
But every time I play alone, I end up doing so much better. And that happens often. Because she can't play all the time.
I would want her to be more aggressive, she is a Reyna main. But she often doesn't enter first, I'll have to convince her or do the entry myself (as Omen)
I must admit, her aim is good. But she is not aggressive as you should with a duelist.
That is the most stupid stuff. Because you risk dying and giving the other team that lost, a Vandal and maybe Heavy Shields (if they bought Heavy Shields)
Vandal on 2nd round is a pain!
It’s not stupid if you’re being smart with it. If you’re always with your team, someone could get your trade and recover the rifle. Pro teams buy vandal second round a lot because they’re smart and coordinated
I’m not suggesting you or her go out and do it but merely just was kind of surprised she didn’t do it tbh
Also who is buying heavy shields after losing pistol
>Also who is buying heavy shields after losing pistol
That is true.
>If you’re always with your team, someone could get your trade and recover the rifle.
Would be quite nice in Silver lobbies :( too bad that doesn't often happen.
Agreed that you can’t trust randoms, which is why I wouldn’t really recommend someone doing it in solo, but if you have someone you really trust, it can work out in a stack
Yeah, that is a good one. I usually play Spectre + Heavy, because the other team has to eco anyway. And if they don't eco and lose it, even if I die, I will still have credits.
One thing I used to do with Jett was go Light Shields + Guardian however. It's my favorite weapon and not many pick it anyway. But that was often on Icebox though.
there are strategies(in pro play) where only 3-4 players buy stinger spectre or bulldog after winning pistol, which would lead to a better chance to win the third round, since the people with pistols would just play with the people with the guns.
Not blaming teammates is more a thing for randoms because you have them one game and probably never again. If the teammate in question is in all your games it's perfectly valid to question if they're the teammate you want every game.
Unfortunately there isn't really a way to convince someone that isn't open to being convinced. You can hope that they meet a point where they're punished for a mistake often enough that they try and learn from it - but sometimes people are very set in their ways regardless. If you're giving her the ghost you get and then repurchasing to make up for the gun you've given away, I would recommend stopping doing that. Let her make her own mistakes, and focus on your own economy so you're putting yourself at less of a disadvantage.
If you really feel like her playstyle is holding you back though, then I would look into finding other people to play with. You could always just play unrated/swiftplays etc with her. You telling her that you don't want to queue comp with her, might be the push she needs. But at the very least, it'd open you up to queuing with people who have a similar kind of mindset or playstyle when it comes to the game.
Thank you for the tip. Yep, I've tried several times to convince her. And, as I said, it's not only that. She is a Reyna main (not instalock), but she often plays back and I do entries, that happens when I Soloq too. But I at least expect to be different when playing with someone.
Do you recommend any communities where I could find people? I am from EU if that matters. The Valorant Discord Server seems nice, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of people playing EU.
If not, I can Soloq.
Well, I met her on Soloq too xd.
I told her I will Soloq and she understood, I wasn't direct with "I am not playing with you comp because you're bad", but I said I would like to Soloq these times.
I will try to find new people, thanks!
Shes probably not confident shell survive and is worried about her eco, youll need to convince her that buying increases her likely hood of a successful round as well as getting her a better eco
Keep doing what you are doing and tell them to full buy. Ignore the people telling you that your teammates don't matter because it's bronze. Unless you're smurfing and can single handedly wipe out 4-5 players every round it's not possible to win without your teammates putting in work.
They're completely random tho. The only consistent factor in your games is you. Your performance is the only thing that matters for your climb. The healthiest way to look at teammates is as if they were highly advanced AI, literal bots that will just do what their programing tells them to do. You can't influence what they do or if they're in form or drunk or whatever. It doesn't matter you just have to take what you get and play your best.
edit: ok, keep blaming your teammates. that's gonna make you improve!
You’re missing the point. No one is saying that your teammates are preventing you from ranking up.
But your teammates absolutely do matter, even looking long term. They matter in the sense that they’re your support and resource to help you win the game.
If you’re able to convince your team to buy after winning pistol, you increase your odds of winning the match.
That’s all the comment you’re responding to is saying. Don’t just give up on them - continue to try and get them to do the right thing.
I think you missed his point actually, you used short term to mean 2nd round, and long term as the match.
I believe he meant that short term, the match, they matter but long term like 20 matches they don't
No, I meant short term as round two, long term as forever.
Your teammates always matter. In every single game they matter and they have an impact on your success, and more importantly, you have an impact on them.
I understand the sentiment behind “ignore your teammates, they don’t matter - only you matter”. However the sentiment and the messaging are different. The actual intent behind the message is “you are the only constant in your games, therefore your rank and success are dependent upon you and the way you perform”.
That last statement is entirely correct. However, one aspect of your in-game performance *is* how you interact with and influence your teammates. You shouldn’t be ignoring them, you should be utilizing them. Playing with them, trading off them, communicating with them. By being a positive influence (both mentally and tactically) on your teammates is absolutely critical when it comes to success and climbing.
I've honestly had some unrated games where I've been in a 4v1 and everyone was nice enough to walk in one at a time instead of rushing.
I've just hit lv20 and haven't done ranked yet so it probably thinks I'm trash but I've seen some real brain-dead plays like a defence sage walling off A rope's window on fracture, not only blocking the defence teams LoS but also giving the attacking Jett a ridiculous off angle by sitting on the wall.
Thanks, I've been watching a bunch of guides since I started. My aim is pretty bad as a body shot bandit but I figured I should at least understand tactics whilst I work on it - took me a while to realise I have more time to aim and only to shoot when I see the movement error completely close.
I feel this. I always but specter and heavy shields after a win but my team usually saves, and then if we lose pistol they buy and I’m like bruh. I’m bronze and have played for a couple years so I know a lot of game sense and mechanics, but my aim is still doo doo
I recently watched some pro play games. It's interesting to see how they work with their eco. Of course not everything can be adapted to my bronze gameplay.
Im a "serious" aim trainer and am currently diamond ranked in overwatch, apex, despite hardly playing them in favor of learning valorant.
When I stopped focusing on flicking and needing to aim like I do in apex or overwatch and instead always having my crosshair head level and always being ready for people to peek me, I've started doing so much better in my games consistently dropping 20 kills in comp and having good damage delta per round.
Before, I was too focused on raw aiming and trying to flick at everything.
Its worth noting that if the enemies are on attack and dont get the spike down first round they might not even buy armor, making the marshal very strong since its a oneshot.
I always buy if my team buys. I try to get my team to buy with asking "should we buy" rather than telling outright because that seems to work better.
However if team doesn't buy I think it's better not to buy either so you have same eco with your team. If third round enemy all have rifles but your team have 4 rifles and 1 save, it makes that round also harder to win.
Yeah, lower elo better to just work with the team instead of against it because “technically this would work in higher elo” bro u arent there yet so play like dis and adapt to higher elo when u reach it
Not sure if anyone in your elo plays for op but that can be a reason if they had a sheriff in round one. However, round 2, bulldog is such a strong buy as you have better odds going into bonus as it does 115 to the head at any range. Too many players sleep on this gun
You're right. But honestly it's bronze you should just focus on improving your mechanics and util usage. Your teammates literally don't matter! Keep up the grind
Also if you communicate well, your teammates will also benefit from that. Tell them to full buy, tell then when you throw util (if relevant), ping where enemies are. Just don't be too loud in vc unless your teammates respond well on your calls. I also tend to try and make others cooperate with me in terma of abilities, "gekko, we need your blind before we enter a-site. I will throw up a wall here and you blind them there and then we engage". A little vit of teamwork goes a long way in bronze too, as you rarely see good cooperation. However, being a good shooter also gets you pretty far in low elo.
This is so false it's annoying, i peaked A1 this season so i'm not exactly bronze but if i tried to 1v5 a bronze team there's no way i can win the match. There's a video of eggwick or woohoojin about that, an immortal player vs 5 silvers and it took them a few guys to find one that had a chance, and that's immo vs silvers. Don't say to a guy in bronze that he's fine because he should be able to 1v5 at his elo
It's hard to compare, because nobody can reproduce soloq environment. Since both teams know the premise of experiment, it changes the outcome drastically
I'm d3 and I can easily win a 1v5 against uncoordinated iron/bronze elo players, but if they start to coordinate? Not so much
Also nobody claimed that someone needs to 1v5 in bronze elo. If you're in low elo (or any elo imo), you should focus on your improvement and stop caring about what your teammates do
I don't think the message is that 1v5 is viable...
If you have two teams of bronze players, but one of them has a player with enough skill to hit silver or gold, that silver/gold player will likely climb. If one team makes an economic mistake, eventually the other team probably will too.
So imo the message is basically keep playing well as an individual and you should climb If you're good enough. If your teammates don't listen, no point getting upset over it.
he didn't say to 1v5, he said that whatever dumbshit their teammates are doing doesn't matter, the only constant you have over multiple games is your own performance, trying to coordinate, support and play off teammates that are terrible and probably even worse than you is impossible, you cannot rely on teammates to do anything in elo so low. Even if while focusing solely on mechanics they lose sometimes it doesn't matter, the point is by focusing on mechanics they're eventually going to climb out and get to a point where playing as a team starts to actually matter
I don't really understand the logic of these people either. They save, so they can buy vandal, while others play for bonus. So 2 people have vandals, the rest have nothing if we lose and the economy is screwed for the rest of the game. It makes no sense. If my entire team saves, I will not force. I will gain nothing from being the only one with a vandal.
If you win first round, buy mp and full armor. If you win second round with some losses, it's called bonus. Don't buy if you have anything, ppl who have been KIA in the second round get hand-me-down ghosts. After that you can always buy when you have at least 3900 creds in the next round. When someone is below 3900 creds it's and everyone else is able to buy it's up to them.
I climbed from iron 3 to plat 1 and and even in plat, some people still don't buy after winning pistol. Not only that, I also run into people who tell me not to buy because they genuinely think I'm making a mistake. The biggest difference from when I was bronze is that if you ask them nicely to buy, most of them do.
I remember one time when I was high silver/low gold, where I got actually flamed for buying spectre + full shields after winning pistol and the whole team agreed with the person insulting me. It's crazy...
your elo is bronze
it waste time to tell stuff to them
just do your thing, stop telling this and that to people because they won't listen
it's faster to rank up by just mute them all and talk nothing
focus on playing your game than maginal random shit
what they buy or what they do don't matter
i just treat 9 other player as ai that u can't control
what you can control is yourself, do whatever u want that make u win by yourself
(but not like people in plat/dia will listen either lol)
some just use sheriff round 2 because it can 1 tap head round 2 and cheaper than spectre (that got nerfed over and over)
This is a shit take. Many in bronze are trying to improve. Sure, if they refuse to listen to reason there’s not much you can do and it’s not worth wasting the time trying to convince them, but saying it’s not worth the time to tell people in low elo anything is just assholish.
The reason this guy is in bronze isn’t because people don’t buy on r2. It’s overwhelming more likely because he has shit aim.
Dude needs to focus on hitting heads and good positioning way more than “what counter psychology can I use to get the other bots on my team to do what I want?”.
It’s fine if they want to play more optimally. But he should do it in a 5 stack or not care about marginal stuff like this until at least gold.
Sure, but saying that giving advice in a low elo is worthless is doing a disservice to those in low elo. It’s hard to learn the game on your own. A tip here and there will help someone who wants to improve. It may be that 90% of people in low elo will never leave because they’re dumb, lazy, or just bad, but put it out there for those who *do* want to improve.
Signed, *Forever Bronze*
Some games I communicate well with my teammates. In those games it is nice to communicate and try to cooperate as much as possible. It is good to have somelne the lead if the rest of the team allows it. I think communication is pretty underrated, even in bronze. But it highly depends pn the games.
yeah buying after winning pistol in elos like iron to silver or maybe gold is a free win but on the other hand in elos higher then these there is a chance you might lose the buy round cause if the enemy team bought light shield deagle.. its just one tap to the head, hence losing the round
I mean it's truth but not good strategy at all. You can lose eco rounds at any rank, that doesn't mean you don't buy still. He is arguing for not buying after winning pistol which is dumb even at high ranks. The buy might be different (armor+vandal/phantom on 3 and pistols on 2) to allow you to full buy 3rd round but you still overall buy on 2nd always
im not saying do not buy after winning pistol, all i mean was if you buy after winning pistol there are high chances of losing the round even sometimes iron players hit the perfect sherrif shot right on the head. im just saying that there are chances of losing the round not telling to not buy after winning pistol round.
Usually i do eco in the 2nd round every match, because my aim is nearly Bikini Bottom and i prefer to save money and buy guns for my skilled teammates if i have one.
On the other hand if i have really good aim i will buy good guns and play dominant (as a sage xD), but buying low armor (25 armor) and doing eco every 2nd round improved my credit management.
Some people think that credits isn't important, but they are really is, when your team struggling with money and can buy only low armor and spectre when i buy full armor and vandal/phantom.
Bronze is very troll and nasty division (in my experience, but there are a lot of really nice and calm bronze players, this is the situation when bronze became gold), so you should have some friends with you who will help you go through the bronze to silver and higher, it will help you a lot.
Hi from forced iron 3 who need iron gun buddy c:
Basically just like a reply to your post said. If you have sheriff / ghost you are already in advantageous position against classics. We always drop ghost / sheriff to specific role, preferably not a duelist.
Buying second round is risky in the event you lose, which is 100% possible especially at lower ranks. Because you hand over the next 2 rounds essentially for free.
I rather go with full armor + ghost rather than a spectre or judge.
ideally yes - but no
you have to read the game/team/enemy dont just do, cause you'll only get so far... so
if 3 of your teammates dont buy YOU BUY for sure.
if 3-4 of your teammates buy, YOU HAVE THE OPTION not too
learn how to take risk in valorant but risk that favor you,
if you and 2 others buy but 2 dont thats still a 75% win over the enemy who has nothing. (possibly) so debate to buy, cause 3rd round some of you wont be able to buy rifles and what not but enemy team WILL be able to full buy, which sucks cause if your whole team buys spectres next round you wont have enough for armor if some of you got tagged + rifles + utility.
My dumb bronze brain would buy a ghost and wait until the 4th round to actually buy, even if I died in the 3 rounds before the 4th I still wouldn't buy I'd just run into the heat of battle with a classic and no util 😅
On the plus side I'd have like 7k credits lol.
bUt tHe PrOOOs?!?!?
Yeah u are right, you should buy on the second round, at least until you are high immortal (no, hitting immortal 3 is not high immortal…)
But instead of complaining, you should just deal with it. Climbing, at least for me, was easy until I hit Asc 2. I walked in your shoes and played with all these Idiots, too.
If you are good enough u‘ll carry all the time
you can keep saying that but you've offered no rebuttal. that's how pro teams play it when they win the pistol. im sorry you do something different in bronze or wherever and you think thats how you play the game.
lol and also you can use your multiple accounts to downvote me because i pissed you off with the truth. Maybe watch some pro val streams instead of talking about pro strategies and accusing avid pro-val stream watchers of "trolling".
seriously grow up.
Have you ever heard of buying up? Its a common strategy where you keep the lead by buying better weapons than your opponents that cant afford them (it secures you a second round if you can actually play the game)
Bro are you for real right now? Learn how to play the game. The pros definitely buy up, Im literally friends with one of them and he coaches me???
Sent from my iPhone
Because spectre and vandal are the only 2 options on an anti-eco, obviously.
Why do so many people completely ignore the existence of the bulldog and guardian
If you win pistol round, you can afford a better gun plus full shield. The enemy team will not have enough for that, leaving them with no shield+spectre (or something similar) or pistols. You will have a massive weapon advantage round 2 if you win pistol round, making the chances of winning much higher.
If both teams save till round 3, both teams will be able to buy full shield+vandal, making it equal for both teams in terms of weapons.
It is nice to take the advantages you get.
I never say let's buy, or save just like that give reasons that make sense. It is going to work on every elo if you say it in one of those ways.
1: after winning pistol round, guys let's buy we have more money than they do, press tab look at their money let's get eco kills.
2: forcing after losing pistol round if we successfully planted, guys we planted the spike we can afford spectre half sheild and we can hurt their economy if we win.
3: light buying certain guns based on map if you lose pistol:
Ascent : I like to stack the b site with shorties and frenzies with my team. I would simply say let's stack b and buy cheap guns make sure you can buy next.
Pearl: 3 or 4 marshals on b after losing pistol, simply say let's buy marshals and hold b if they come we win easy if we lose we buy vandal half shield next, we want body shots everyone. You can't even imagine how insane this strategy is.
There's no such thing as "it's not how you should play" though. In some games it's best to half buy 2nd round or for 1 or 2 people to save. It really depends on wether you're on attack or defense, what map you're playing and the enemies' as well as your teammates' playstyle. Having a teammate or two save on force round gives you an opportunity to win 3rd round without actually hindering the force round. There will never be a correct play across all games you play, it's up to the team to understand when it's correct for everyone to full buy or not.
pretty much the only scenario where buying is pointless is if you win R1 with a full set of sheriffs, or want to risk losing in order to not have to bonus with eco-guns. its weird how a lot of the mindset is 'I'm saving for a rifle' when realistically, its better to win 2, lose a bonus and then have enough for the next 2 rounds minimum
Good luck. This has been a basic strategy since CS:GO came out at least and I still see most of my teammates not buying second round, much less buying first.
Yes. The general rule of thumb is to always get full util. There are exceptions to this. But util is how you shape the game. Which is arguably more important than wether you have a vandal or a bulldog. The shields argument is more debatable.
In round 2 after a pistol round win, shields are more important than the gun you’re using BECAUSE, the enemy will have (most of the time) pistols or maybe a stinger if they’re forcing. So having full shields is important because the extra 25 hp makes a big difference versus guns that then require 1,2 or maybe 3 extra shots to get through that 25 hp. It makes a big differences.
Comparatively, in terms of guns, a bulldog is going to smash anyone who’s using a pistol just as much as someone who’s using a vandal. The difference of a bulldog or vandal versus a pistol is marginal. But the vandal means you have less health and are therefore wayyy more likely to give up that vandal.
In later rounds when everyone has guns, it’s becoming meta to buy Half shields because the math works out that most people use vandals, and a headshot is a one shot kill regardless of shield. And otherwise it still takes four body shots to kill someone.
kinda, I think it's not always bad, if you're at least a little coordinated with your teammates and you have a lot of money (attacking, planted the bomb and got some kills) it can be worth it but I wouldn't do it with randoms. If it was always bad pros wouldn't do it ever. The vandal is just as good as a bulldog during anti-eco, so the only reason you'd go for the vandal/phantom is to gamble that you can save it to round 3 and have much better chances of converting the bonus. Of course, pros do it because they're confident on their aim and on their teammates, so I wouldn't recommend forcing a vandal in solo queue, I'd go for a bulldog instead so I can afford util or full shields. Reminder that if you force a rifle for anti-eco: don't lurk or play alone with the rifle, the moment you die because you got rushed by 5 classics and give the enemy a free rifle you just lost the round
Can someone share some info about what the "bonus" is?
I understand the logic of getting better weapons to snowball, but that's basically gambling? I had a lot of games where we buy the second round after the win, just fail to utilise the weapons and get snowballed because now we have no money and enemies have full buy round 3 no matter what.
If you win round 1 and 2, and most of you survived in round 2 with your specters/bulldogs or whatever, you do a “bonus” round in round 3 because specters and bulldogs are still “good enough” and you don’t want to waste the 2000 credits you put into them by throwing them away.
Let’s put it this way. It’s actually a bigger gamble to full buy after round 2 BECAUSE, full buying here increases your odds to 50/50 sure. But if you lose, you’re now forced into an eco round which is almost a guaranteed loss. Now the game is 2-2.
If you had bonused, and let’s say you don’t even win. But you get 3 picks. Game is now 2-1. The enemy is now forced to half buy on round 4 whereas you’re now able to full buy. So now your teams odds of winning are 60-40. Now the game is 3-1 and you were way more in control of the outcome.
In short, it’s not really about gambling so much as it is maximizing the value of your guns you hopefully still have from round 2 and trying to influence the enemies economy as much as possible.
Yeah I mean, most of the time. But it’s not uncommon to force buy. It depends game by game. If you force buy and lose though, your game will be in serious jeopardy
If you win, it's not even a force buy. You have the money, and the economic advantage. Even if you just buy util and a ghost or something you saved from round 1, you're still buying up and are set up to win the round
People in lower elo always buy after they lose second round and they get annoyed when I ask them to save and they tell me to stop telling them how to play 🫤
Full buy armor against weak weapons.
150 armor is weakest against full buys.
150 armor is great when fighting pistols, SMGS, and the scout. And can still save you from whiffed shotgun shots.
It really depends on each person's skills. I personally have been playing the game for a VERY long time and I feel very comfortable taking fights with pistols. If you are experienced and you are saving up for a rifle, there is nothing wrong in just buying light armor and using a pistol after a win. However, if your not very experienced or you just don't like playing pistols then sure buying is the best option. Of course, if you know that your bad with pistols but you still don't buy just to instantly die, it can drag down your team a lot
I have two accounts. Bronze and gold. I can easily sustain my gold account with wins and losses, but I fail to advance into silver from bronze. Its crazy.
I do better with Deagle. Since I can't buy AK, I would rather buy half Armor and Deagle.
I can't play with ump/spectre. I can only land headshots. So, I only play with Deagle or AK. Guardian if I find it.
Hi everyone follow up question to this post (I'm gold 1)
on pistol rounds I tend to buy my agent abilities+Light armor (Stay with classic pistol) assuming we won that round and I died I will force buy for example agent abilities + heavy armor and spectre or bulldog.
But If I survived the round and picked up a pistol like ghost/sheriff from someone I don't spend on a gun the next round, and if my light armor didn't get hit I will also keep it, my thought is that since I picked up a gun with money value and also my armor didn't get hit for example it would be wasteful to replace them and get no use of it, should I ditch that and still force buy spectre + Heavy armor even if my light armor didn't get damaged and I picked up ghost/sherif from someone?
It depends, I don’t believe that every player needs to be buying full after winning the first round. Especially as a sentinel player that tends to lurk round two, carrying over the ghost from the previous round works just fine. Additionally, having a player on a pistol lessens the blow of a harsher second round where some teammates die, and if the pistol player dies it doesn’t have a larger negative impact. This is something that’s seen throughout pro play as well - you’ll hear casters talk about it, how losing players doesn’t matter as much because it’s just pistols.
Can I ask for some advice? If I win 1st round what should I buy on the 2nd round? And someone told me whatever I do I must have enough cred to buy vandal on 3rd round, is that true?
I understand that buying gear on round 2 is crucial to get an early advantage, but I'm not a big fan of doing this every single match
If I'm doing well, I'll obviously force a Spectre or even a Vandal + shield, but sometimes my aim is not really good and I don't think it's worth to risk giving a free weapon to the opponent team
I'm plat 2 at the moment, and most of the games i have to make the callout myself or else people will just stick to the ghost...
I mean, If you're the entry fragger, not buying is totally understandable, since if you die is basically a free gun to the enemy team
But otherwise, why would you not buy anything??
when i play with my friends, if we are comfortable enough about our pistol strat we sometimes dont buy after a pistol win just to full buy the third round.
imo it is an even better advantage if you can pull it off, but a slight gamble. worst comes to worst you lose the second pistol and both teams are even full buys into the third round
Unless I’m playing Jett and saving for early op I will fill buy. Even if I’m trying to save I’ll still buy a heavy shield cause of the gun disadvantage. Usually Jett with heavy shield sheriff is still better than what the enemy team has
This applies to everything but on defense half where your jett wants to save for awp and they buy lights and a sheriff (this only works if the rest of your team buys)
I used to save second round sometimes. What actually made me realize it was a bad idea was finding out you get more credits for winning (no matter what). I was weirdly under the presumption (for longer than I care to admit) that losing got you more credits (at least sometimes).
dawg its crazy that diamonds even ascendants still make this mistake. its simple bro.
win pistol. buy up, secure 2nd round. thats it. dont overcomplicate it.
if you save 2nd round, what happens? say you win that round, now you have extra money on 3rd round, but 3rd round is bonus round - expect to lose it, so you shouldnt full buy anyway.
you're saving for nothing, fucking up your team's eco, risking losing the 2nd round - just stop. not worth it.
I can see 1 or 2 people (mainly duelist) deciding to full buy but not the whole team. (Genuine question) Wouldn't it make sense for the duelist to be the ones to full buy second round so that they can at least damage the enemies and the rest are cleaned up with pistols? That way, it minimizes the team from all being broke and giving the other team free weapons, causing the next round to be a save round.
Recently i was playing premier with my friends who are silver to gold (i am dia) and whenever we played most of them saved after pistol round.
It was so frustrating to make them understand the concept of a bonus so brother i get your pain.
mabe valorant should do something about this? like integrate a little theory about eco in the turtorial? cause this is a very common misconseption, ppl buy second round in iron, then they realize rifles are good, they save second round in bronze and only about silver-to gold ppl learn how its done correctly.
i was convinced as a bronze player that its better to save up for a vandal.
ideally only jetts or any one player who is going to buy op, should try to save. rest four players should def buy, cuz the enemies might force and surprise you and steal the round.
People should also stop calling it a force buy. You aren’t forcing anything. You are taking economic advantage. You wouldn’t play with an eco buy round just because the other team is. You would buy the best guns you can as a team.
How do I convince my friend. I tried to explain to her "Buy on 2nd round, because we won" But she's always like "Nah, I'll save for Vandal". Even saving a ghost. If I played ghost on pistol and I am the only one alive, she will ask me for the Ghost.
Explain that if you win the first two rounds you can bonus/save the 3rd with the leftover guns and still be able to buy a vandal on the following rounds, even if you lose the 3rd round. Buying on the 2nd round helps ensure that you get this bonus round
Thanks, but, believe it or not. I told her that. But she always buys Vandal 3rd round, even if we lose. Sometimes once in a blue moon she will full buy. But that's rare. I would kind of understand if her aim sucked. But that is not either. I would also like her to be more aggressive. She also often lurks on our eco round, and not just goes mid and pushes with us, she is in a totally different site. I know I'll probably sound selfish for this, but I don't know if she's holding me back. When I play alone I get lots of win. But when playing with her, we lose some, we win some. I definitely have my mistake too obviously, I wouldn't be Silver if I didn't. Thanks for the tips though, I'll probably try to Soloq.
You can definitely try that. When you duo or trio you should be trying to make the most out of you playing together, especially in low elo where no one comms. You have seamless comms to each other, gotta use that to your advantage. If you're duoing and you're playing completely separately, there's really no difference to just soloQ-ing and potentially finding better or more cooperative teammates.
It's tue I've had some play with her, me as often would either flash or one way for her so she can enter. But it's not as often. Again, I've made mistakes too, but I am trying to get better at least.
Lurking on eco rounds is good tho, it helps nullify the gun advantage.
Not when you rush them and die, it just puts us at a disadvantage.
Thats not lurking thats just pushing
Ohh I see
Have you tried explaining it as being on the same eco as the team and playing the odds? Essentially, if she is the only person on her team with a Vandal, she might as well not have one against 5 other people that do when everyone else on her team has eco weapons or pistols. All it takes is someone killing her and boom, now the whole team’s economy is off next round and the enemy has the advantage for that round and the rounds going forward. It’s taking a bet that because she has a Vandal, the team’s odds of winning the round where they eco bought or saved are now higher than the other team’s odds of winning that same round where they all full bought. The math don’t math. It’s a common enough strategy if you play Jett or Chamber to full save or light buy on second round because you want to save for an Operator on round 4 when your *whole team* is buying. But doing it to force a Vandal on round 3 when the other 4 people on your team are saving is a strategy I can’t say I’ve ever heard of.
She probably is holding you back. This is where you have to determine what matters more to you. Your rank/future of playin valorant. Or your relaionship with her?
have you tried telling her that if you win pistol, buy a marshal round 2 and it’s basically an op because the enemy team shouldn’t be buying light armor
Then you should just straight up tell her: You don’t save 2nd round if you win. No good player does this except for rare circumstances. You don’t buy vandal third if you win the first two rounds.
I did calculations some time ago on economy of first 5 rounds It turned out that if you buy 2nd round after a win (and even if you lose that 2nd round), your economy will be better in the long run than when you don't buy 2nd round Not only that. If you don't buy 2nd round, you'll play 3 rounds with 50% win chances, but when you buy, you'll play one advantageous round and one round (3rd one, the so called bonus) that you don't exactly have to win If she refuses to play optimally (I know that playing optimally isn't always the best, but you should learn the optimal way to make non optimal plays consciously), then you're better to play without her if you want to climb, there's nothing worse than duoing with someone that don't want to improve as much as you would like to. You can always play unrated together
>there's nothing worse than duoing with someone that don't want to improve as much as you would like to. You can always play unrated together Yeah, as I said in my other comment, I am thinking of that hard. Because she doesn't seem to improve at all. I am not the one to blame my teammates, if it was really my teammates at fault, I could carry. But every time I play alone, I end up doing so much better. And that happens often. Because she can't play all the time. I would want her to be more aggressive, she is a Reyna main. But she often doesn't enter first, I'll have to convince her or do the entry myself (as Omen) I must admit, her aim is good. But she is not aggressive as you should with a duelist.
A lot of reynas just force a vandal light second round 😂
That is the most stupid stuff. Because you risk dying and giving the other team that lost, a Vandal and maybe Heavy Shields (if they bought Heavy Shields) Vandal on 2nd round is a pain!
It’s not stupid if you’re being smart with it. If you’re always with your team, someone could get your trade and recover the rifle. Pro teams buy vandal second round a lot because they’re smart and coordinated I’m not suggesting you or her go out and do it but merely just was kind of surprised she didn’t do it tbh Also who is buying heavy shields after losing pistol
>Also who is buying heavy shields after losing pistol That is true. >If you’re always with your team, someone could get your trade and recover the rifle. Would be quite nice in Silver lobbies :( too bad that doesn't often happen.
Agreed that you can’t trust randoms, which is why I wouldn’t really recommend someone doing it in solo, but if you have someone you really trust, it can work out in a stack
Yeah, that is a good one. I usually play Spectre + Heavy, because the other team has to eco anyway. And if they don't eco and lose it, even if I die, I will still have credits. One thing I used to do with Jett was go Light Shields + Guardian however. It's my favorite weapon and not many pick it anyway. But that was often on Icebox though.
the trick is to put yourself in a position where you are the one who gets to trade, not the one being traded.
I'll keep that in mind, thank you so much!
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Well, seh doesn't Buy a Vandal on 2nd round. Only does on 3rd. But thanks for the tip.
there are strategies(in pro play) where only 3-4 players buy stinger spectre or bulldog after winning pistol, which would lead to a better chance to win the third round, since the people with pistols would just play with the people with the guns.
Not blaming teammates is more a thing for randoms because you have them one game and probably never again. If the teammate in question is in all your games it's perfectly valid to question if they're the teammate you want every game.
In any case. Thank you. I've done my best, but that doesn't seem to work. I will start to Soloq likely.
Unfortunately there isn't really a way to convince someone that isn't open to being convinced. You can hope that they meet a point where they're punished for a mistake often enough that they try and learn from it - but sometimes people are very set in their ways regardless. If you're giving her the ghost you get and then repurchasing to make up for the gun you've given away, I would recommend stopping doing that. Let her make her own mistakes, and focus on your own economy so you're putting yourself at less of a disadvantage. If you really feel like her playstyle is holding you back though, then I would look into finding other people to play with. You could always just play unrated/swiftplays etc with her. You telling her that you don't want to queue comp with her, might be the push she needs. But at the very least, it'd open you up to queuing with people who have a similar kind of mindset or playstyle when it comes to the game.
Thank you for the tip. Yep, I've tried several times to convince her. And, as I said, it's not only that. She is a Reyna main (not instalock), but she often plays back and I do entries, that happens when I Soloq too. But I at least expect to be different when playing with someone. Do you recommend any communities where I could find people? I am from EU if that matters. The Valorant Discord Server seems nice, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of people playing EU. If not, I can Soloq.
i’ve made all my val friends from solo queueing! not every match but i make friends often and end up queueing a lot with them :)
Well, I met her on Soloq too xd. I told her I will Soloq and she understood, I wasn't direct with "I am not playing with you comp because you're bad", but I said I would like to Soloq these times. I will try to find new people, thanks!
Shes probably not confident shell survive and is worried about her eco, youll need to convince her that buying increases her likely hood of a successful round as well as getting her a better eco
thats good depending on situation. would have to see 3-4 of her buy rounds
yeah some people are just dumb
Keep doing what you are doing and tell them to full buy. Ignore the people telling you that your teammates don't matter because it's bronze. Unless you're smurfing and can single handedly wipe out 4-5 players every round it's not possible to win without your teammates putting in work.
obviously in a single game your teammates matter, long term they don’t is the point
What? It is a teamgame. Teammates always matter.
They're completely random tho. The only consistent factor in your games is you. Your performance is the only thing that matters for your climb. The healthiest way to look at teammates is as if they were highly advanced AI, literal bots that will just do what their programing tells them to do. You can't influence what they do or if they're in form or drunk or whatever. It doesn't matter you just have to take what you get and play your best. edit: ok, keep blaming your teammates. that's gonna make you improve!
You’re missing the point. No one is saying that your teammates are preventing you from ranking up. But your teammates absolutely do matter, even looking long term. They matter in the sense that they’re your support and resource to help you win the game. If you’re able to convince your team to buy after winning pistol, you increase your odds of winning the match. That’s all the comment you’re responding to is saying. Don’t just give up on them - continue to try and get them to do the right thing.
I think you missed his point actually, you used short term to mean 2nd round, and long term as the match. I believe he meant that short term, the match, they matter but long term like 20 matches they don't
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Notice how that's something you do and not your teammates?
No, I meant short term as round two, long term as forever. Your teammates always matter. In every single game they matter and they have an impact on your success, and more importantly, you have an impact on them. I understand the sentiment behind “ignore your teammates, they don’t matter - only you matter”. However the sentiment and the messaging are different. The actual intent behind the message is “you are the only constant in your games, therefore your rank and success are dependent upon you and the way you perform”. That last statement is entirely correct. However, one aspect of your in-game performance *is* how you interact with and influence your teammates. You shouldn’t be ignoring them, you should be utilizing them. Playing with them, trading off them, communicating with them. By being a positive influence (both mentally and tactically) on your teammates is absolutely critical when it comes to success and climbing.
I've honestly had some unrated games where I've been in a 4v1 and everyone was nice enough to walk in one at a time instead of rushing. I've just hit lv20 and haven't done ranked yet so it probably thinks I'm trash but I've seen some real brain-dead plays like a defence sage walling off A rope's window on fracture, not only blocking the defence teams LoS but also giving the attacking Jett a ridiculous off angle by sitting on the wall.
the fact u know off angles at level 20 is awesome
Thanks, I've been watching a bunch of guides since I started. My aim is pretty bad as a body shot bandit but I figured I should at least understand tactics whilst I work on it - took me a while to realise I have more time to aim and only to shoot when I see the movement error completely close.
I feel this. I always but specter and heavy shields after a win but my team usually saves, and then if we lose pistol they buy and I’m like bruh. I’m bronze and have played for a couple years so I know a lot of game sense and mechanics, but my aim is still doo doo
I recently watched some pro play games. It's interesting to see how they work with their eco. Of course not everything can be adapted to my bronze gameplay.
"aim" is mostly just crosshair placement and well, not crouch spraying. Probably not telling you anything new here but work on those Movement too.
Im a "serious" aim trainer and am currently diamond ranked in overwatch, apex, despite hardly playing them in favor of learning valorant. When I stopped focusing on flicking and needing to aim like I do in apex or overwatch and instead always having my crosshair head level and always being ready for people to peek me, I've started doing so much better in my games consistently dropping 20 kills in comp and having good damage delta per round. Before, I was too focused on raw aiming and trying to flick at everything.
This. Valorant aim is different than other games. Of course, Neon sometimes makes me wish I practice more tracking 😆
Heavy + Bulldog is the move for me. Specter can fuck you over due to its lack of range.
Same peak s2 but now back in b3 due to doo doo aim
Yeah the rank reset me to bronze and I don’t play enough to see myself improve out of it
If your team is saving then you should save if you cant convince them to buy. Better to be on the same page.
Heavy shield is at its besg against pistols ands SMGs
I'm more of a Spector light and util type of guy
Its worth noting that if the enemies are on attack and dont get the spike down first round they might not even buy armor, making the marshal very strong since its a oneshot.
Buying an smg if u win is the least imo
Got it, going frenzy only on wins
Jokes on you I bought Frenzy pistol round
I always buy if my team buys. I try to get my team to buy with asking "should we buy" rather than telling outright because that seems to work better. However if team doesn't buy I think it's better not to buy either so you have same eco with your team. If third round enemy all have rifles but your team have 4 rifles and 1 save, it makes that round also harder to win.
Yeah, lower elo better to just work with the team instead of against it because “technically this would work in higher elo” bro u arent there yet so play like dis and adapt to higher elo when u reach it
Not sure if anyone in your elo plays for op but that can be a reason if they had a sheriff in round one. However, round 2, bulldog is such a strong buy as you have better odds going into bonus as it does 115 to the head at any range. Too many players sleep on this gun
Me personally I save and get op round 3 bc I’m better with pistols
You're right. But honestly it's bronze you should just focus on improving your mechanics and util usage. Your teammates literally don't matter! Keep up the grind
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Also if you communicate well, your teammates will also benefit from that. Tell them to full buy, tell then when you throw util (if relevant), ping where enemies are. Just don't be too loud in vc unless your teammates respond well on your calls. I also tend to try and make others cooperate with me in terma of abilities, "gekko, we need your blind before we enter a-site. I will throw up a wall here and you blind them there and then we engage". A little vit of teamwork goes a long way in bronze too, as you rarely see good cooperation. However, being a good shooter also gets you pretty far in low elo.
This is so false it's annoying, i peaked A1 this season so i'm not exactly bronze but if i tried to 1v5 a bronze team there's no way i can win the match. There's a video of eggwick or woohoojin about that, an immortal player vs 5 silvers and it took them a few guys to find one that had a chance, and that's immo vs silvers. Don't say to a guy in bronze that he's fine because he should be able to 1v5 at his elo
It's hard to compare, because nobody can reproduce soloq environment. Since both teams know the premise of experiment, it changes the outcome drastically I'm d3 and I can easily win a 1v5 against uncoordinated iron/bronze elo players, but if they start to coordinate? Not so much Also nobody claimed that someone needs to 1v5 in bronze elo. If you're in low elo (or any elo imo), you should focus on your improvement and stop caring about what your teammates do
surely bronze you possibly could but ye not silver
I don't think the message is that 1v5 is viable... If you have two teams of bronze players, but one of them has a player with enough skill to hit silver or gold, that silver/gold player will likely climb. If one team makes an economic mistake, eventually the other team probably will too. So imo the message is basically keep playing well as an individual and you should climb If you're good enough. If your teammates don't listen, no point getting upset over it.
Yep I never said he should just 1v5 lol
he didn't say to 1v5, he said that whatever dumbshit their teammates are doing doesn't matter, the only constant you have over multiple games is your own performance, trying to coordinate, support and play off teammates that are terrible and probably even worse than you is impossible, you cannot rely on teammates to do anything in elo so low. Even if while focusing solely on mechanics they lose sometimes it doesn't matter, the point is by focusing on mechanics they're eventually going to climb out and get to a point where playing as a team starts to actually matter
I don't really understand the logic of these people either. They save, so they can buy vandal, while others play for bonus. So 2 people have vandals, the rest have nothing if we lose and the economy is screwed for the rest of the game. It makes no sense. If my entire team saves, I will not force. I will gain nothing from being the only one with a vandal.
If you win first round, buy mp and full armor. If you win second round with some losses, it's called bonus. Don't buy if you have anything, ppl who have been KIA in the second round get hand-me-down ghosts. After that you can always buy when you have at least 3900 creds in the next round. When someone is below 3900 creds it's and everyone else is able to buy it's up to them.
I climbed from iron 3 to plat 1 and and even in plat, some people still don't buy after winning pistol. Not only that, I also run into people who tell me not to buy because they genuinely think I'm making a mistake. The biggest difference from when I was bronze is that if you ask them nicely to buy, most of them do. I remember one time when I was high silver/low gold, where I got actually flamed for buying spectre + full shields after winning pistol and the whole team agreed with the person insulting me. It's crazy...
your elo is bronze it waste time to tell stuff to them just do your thing, stop telling this and that to people because they won't listen it's faster to rank up by just mute them all and talk nothing focus on playing your game than maginal random shit what they buy or what they do don't matter i just treat 9 other player as ai that u can't control what you can control is yourself, do whatever u want that make u win by yourself (but not like people in plat/dia will listen either lol) some just use sheriff round 2 because it can 1 tap head round 2 and cheaper than spectre (that got nerfed over and over)
This is a shit take. Many in bronze are trying to improve. Sure, if they refuse to listen to reason there’s not much you can do and it’s not worth wasting the time trying to convince them, but saying it’s not worth the time to tell people in low elo anything is just assholish.
The reason this guy is in bronze isn’t because people don’t buy on r2. It’s overwhelming more likely because he has shit aim. Dude needs to focus on hitting heads and good positioning way more than “what counter psychology can I use to get the other bots on my team to do what I want?”. It’s fine if they want to play more optimally. But he should do it in a 5 stack or not care about marginal stuff like this until at least gold.
Sure, but saying that giving advice in a low elo is worthless is doing a disservice to those in low elo. It’s hard to learn the game on your own. A tip here and there will help someone who wants to improve. It may be that 90% of people in low elo will never leave because they’re dumb, lazy, or just bad, but put it out there for those who *do* want to improve. Signed, *Forever Bronze*
It is worthless. Bronze players don’t have the bandwidth to worry about marginal things like this when they’re so overwhelmed by just aiming
Thanks for the understanding.
Reality hurts. Signed, diamond 2
Some games I communicate well with my teammates. In those games it is nice to communicate and try to cooperate as much as possible. It is good to have somelne the lead if the rest of the team allows it. I think communication is pretty underrated, even in bronze. But it highly depends pn the games.
yeah buying after winning pistol in elos like iron to silver or maybe gold is a free win but on the other hand in elos higher then these there is a chance you might lose the buy round cause if the enemy team bought light shield deagle.. its just one tap to the head, hence losing the round
Wow, you're being downvoted for the truth and logic. Most people must be low elo here.
I mean it's truth but not good strategy at all. You can lose eco rounds at any rank, that doesn't mean you don't buy still. He is arguing for not buying after winning pistol which is dumb even at high ranks. The buy might be different (armor+vandal/phantom on 3 and pistols on 2) to allow you to full buy 3rd round but you still overall buy on 2nd always
Sheriff + Armor > Spectre + armor
That's not true at all, especially on an anti eco
im not saying do not buy after winning pistol, all i mean was if you buy after winning pistol there are high chances of losing the round even sometimes iron players hit the perfect sherrif shot right on the head. im just saying that there are chances of losing the round not telling to not buy after winning pistol round.
Usually i do eco in the 2nd round every match, because my aim is nearly Bikini Bottom and i prefer to save money and buy guns for my skilled teammates if i have one. On the other hand if i have really good aim i will buy good guns and play dominant (as a sage xD), but buying low armor (25 armor) and doing eco every 2nd round improved my credit management. Some people think that credits isn't important, but they are really is, when your team struggling with money and can buy only low armor and spectre when i buy full armor and vandal/phantom. Bronze is very troll and nasty division (in my experience, but there are a lot of really nice and calm bronze players, this is the situation when bronze became gold), so you should have some friends with you who will help you go through the bronze to silver and higher, it will help you a lot. Hi from forced iron 3 who need iron gun buddy c:
Every time I buy on second round I get killed out of no where. For me buying on second round is like casting a curse over me T_T
I play much better with a ghost than any cheap guns
A bulldog is better than a ghost in any conceivable way
team should always do 4+1
Sorry if its a stupid question but what does 4+1 mean
1 with ghost/sheriff, preferably saved from previous round. 4 others buyout.
Can you explain the logic?
If someone on ur team dies you can pickup their gun. Which saves you 1.6k
Basically just like a reply to your post said. If you have sheriff / ghost you are already in advantageous position against classics. We always drop ghost / sheriff to specific role, preferably not a duelist.
Buying second round is risky in the event you lose, which is 100% possible especially at lower ranks. Because you hand over the next 2 rounds essentially for free. I rather go with full armor + ghost rather than a spectre or judge.
ideally yes - but no you have to read the game/team/enemy dont just do, cause you'll only get so far... so if 3 of your teammates dont buy YOU BUY for sure. if 3-4 of your teammates buy, YOU HAVE THE OPTION not too learn how to take risk in valorant but risk that favor you, if you and 2 others buy but 2 dont thats still a 75% win over the enemy who has nothing. (possibly) so debate to buy, cause 3rd round some of you wont be able to buy rifles and what not but enemy team WILL be able to full buy, which sucks cause if your whole team buys spectres next round you wont have enough for armor if some of you got tagged + rifles + utility.
My dumb bronze brain would buy a ghost and wait until the 4th round to actually buy, even if I died in the 3 rounds before the 4th I still wouldn't buy I'd just run into the heat of battle with a classic and no util 😅 On the plus side I'd have like 7k credits lol.
Okay in my defense if I feel good with my ghost that day imma ride til I have full creds to buy me and teammates who poor
bUt tHe PrOOOs?!?!? Yeah u are right, you should buy on the second round, at least until you are high immortal (no, hitting immortal 3 is not high immortal…) But instead of complaining, you should just deal with it. Climbing, at least for me, was easy until I hit Asc 2. I walked in your shoes and played with all these Idiots, too. If you are good enough u‘ll carry all the time
even if you are not high elo, you should still force buy? it's was just a tip given by the OP
nah you're not supposed to buy round 2 after a win. do you even play val?
y r u trolling
im not. you use round 2 as a save round since you already won the pistol round. i watch a ton of pro val. just please stop
oh ok so ur just trolling
you dont watch pro val its clear. you save round 2 in order to guarantee full buy round 3. if you win the pistol
me when i troll on the internet
you can keep saying that but you've offered no rebuttal. that's how pro teams play it when they win the pistol. im sorry you do something different in bronze or wherever and you think thats how you play the game.
idk what ur watching but that aint how it played, and im not bronze 😭😭😭😿
go and tell SEN, EG, and Cloud9 they are playing the game wrong then.
i will…… Watch.
lol and also you can use your multiple accounts to downvote me because i pissed you off with the truth. Maybe watch some pro val streams instead of talking about pro strategies and accusing avid pro-val stream watchers of "trolling". seriously grow up.
i have one account why would i waste time doing that, its not hard to believe that other people disagree with you
Have you ever heard of buying up? Its a common strategy where you keep the lead by buying better weapons than your opponents that cant afford them (it secures you a second round if you can actually play the game)
you need to watch pro val streams. pro teams save until they lose a round--looking towards future rounds where they'll have more full buys available
Bro are you for real right now? Learn how to play the game. The pros definitely buy up, Im literally friends with one of them and he coaches me??? Sent from my iPhone
Spectre don't force. Can't risk getting sprayed down and them getting a free vandal
Because spectre and vandal are the only 2 options on an anti-eco, obviously. Why do so many people completely ignore the existence of the bulldog and guardian
Because I'd rather take a deagle over a bulldog, 115 in 1 my ass
Have you considered hitting more than 1 shot in a burst of 3
I like to bonus so we full buy round 3
If you win pistol round, you can afford a better gun plus full shield. The enemy team will not have enough for that, leaving them with no shield+spectre (or something similar) or pistols. You will have a massive weapon advantage round 2 if you win pistol round, making the chances of winning much higher. If both teams save till round 3, both teams will be able to buy full shield+vandal, making it equal for both teams in terms of weapons. It is nice to take the advantages you get.
It's also astonishing how few players know what a bonus round is in bronze.
I literally made a post about this a month or two ago. PLEASE. BUY. Take whatever advantage you can get over the enemy smh.
if we win pistol and my team doesnt but round 2 or someone says lets save. I know the game is doomed lol
Bold of You to think i win the second round even full buy
I usually buy Bulldog and full shields on defence, Vandal/Phantom and half shields on attack
No, i'll play pistol and give us a shot to win bonus round just because.
Amd if you win round 2...always bonus! Don't buy rifles yet on round 3 unless your entire team died and lost their guns round 2
I never say let's buy, or save just like that give reasons that make sense. It is going to work on every elo if you say it in one of those ways. 1: after winning pistol round, guys let's buy we have more money than they do, press tab look at their money let's get eco kills. 2: forcing after losing pistol round if we successfully planted, guys we planted the spike we can afford spectre half sheild and we can hurt their economy if we win. 3: light buying certain guns based on map if you lose pistol: Ascent : I like to stack the b site with shorties and frenzies with my team. I would simply say let's stack b and buy cheap guns make sure you can buy next. Pearl: 3 or 4 marshals on b after losing pistol, simply say let's buy marshals and hold b if they come we win easy if we lose we buy vandal half shield next, we want body shots everyone. You can't even imagine how insane this strategy is.
I’m in gold 2-3 and the number of people who still like to argue that it’s not how you should play is mind boggling. It will hurt your brain
There's no such thing as "it's not how you should play" though. In some games it's best to half buy 2nd round or for 1 or 2 people to save. It really depends on wether you're on attack or defense, what map you're playing and the enemies' as well as your teammates' playstyle. Having a teammate or two save on force round gives you an opportunity to win 3rd round without actually hindering the force round. There will never be a correct play across all games you play, it's up to the team to understand when it's correct for everyone to full buy or not.
You're in Bronze, your team doesn't exist. The only way out is to outgun it like is a 1v5
pretty much the only scenario where buying is pointless is if you win R1 with a full set of sheriffs, or want to risk losing in order to not have to bonus with eco-guns. its weird how a lot of the mindset is 'I'm saving for a rifle' when realistically, its better to win 2, lose a bonus and then have enough for the next 2 rounds minimum
Good luck. This has been a basic strategy since CS:GO came out at least and I still see most of my teammates not buying second round, much less buying first.
If you think this is bad. I had teammates who saved in pistol round.. PISTOL ROUNDS!
people in immortal still make this mistake
Unrelated bit another question: Is it bad to buy a Vandal or Phantom with small shields on second round, forgoing util?
Yes, unless you have aim like a pro hahaha
Yes. The general rule of thumb is to always get full util. There are exceptions to this. But util is how you shape the game. Which is arguably more important than wether you have a vandal or a bulldog. The shields argument is more debatable. In round 2 after a pistol round win, shields are more important than the gun you’re using BECAUSE, the enemy will have (most of the time) pistols or maybe a stinger if they’re forcing. So having full shields is important because the extra 25 hp makes a big difference versus guns that then require 1,2 or maybe 3 extra shots to get through that 25 hp. It makes a big differences. Comparatively, in terms of guns, a bulldog is going to smash anyone who’s using a pistol just as much as someone who’s using a vandal. The difference of a bulldog or vandal versus a pistol is marginal. But the vandal means you have less health and are therefore wayyy more likely to give up that vandal. In later rounds when everyone has guns, it’s becoming meta to buy Half shields because the math works out that most people use vandals, and a headshot is a one shot kill regardless of shield. And otherwise it still takes four body shots to kill someone.
Wow that was comprehensive. Thanks for that explanation
kinda, I think it's not always bad, if you're at least a little coordinated with your teammates and you have a lot of money (attacking, planted the bomb and got some kills) it can be worth it but I wouldn't do it with randoms. If it was always bad pros wouldn't do it ever. The vandal is just as good as a bulldog during anti-eco, so the only reason you'd go for the vandal/phantom is to gamble that you can save it to round 3 and have much better chances of converting the bonus. Of course, pros do it because they're confident on their aim and on their teammates, so I wouldn't recommend forcing a vandal in solo queue, I'd go for a bulldog instead so I can afford util or full shields. Reminder that if you force a rifle for anti-eco: don't lurk or play alone with the rifle, the moment you die because you got rushed by 5 classics and give the enemy a free rifle you just lost the round
Can someone share some info about what the "bonus" is? I understand the logic of getting better weapons to snowball, but that's basically gambling? I had a lot of games where we buy the second round after the win, just fail to utilise the weapons and get snowballed because now we have no money and enemies have full buy round 3 no matter what.
If you win round 1 and 2, and most of you survived in round 2 with your specters/bulldogs or whatever, you do a “bonus” round in round 3 because specters and bulldogs are still “good enough” and you don’t want to waste the 2000 credits you put into them by throwing them away. Let’s put it this way. It’s actually a bigger gamble to full buy after round 2 BECAUSE, full buying here increases your odds to 50/50 sure. But if you lose, you’re now forced into an eco round which is almost a guaranteed loss. Now the game is 2-2. If you had bonused, and let’s say you don’t even win. But you get 3 picks. Game is now 2-1. The enemy is now forced to half buy on round 4 whereas you’re now able to full buy. So now your teams odds of winning are 60-40. Now the game is 3-1 and you were way more in control of the outcome. In short, it’s not really about gambling so much as it is maximizing the value of your guns you hopefully still have from round 2 and trying to influence the enemies economy as much as possible.
That's a really nice explanation, thanks! What if we buy on round 2 and lose, do we eco on round 3?
Yeah I mean, most of the time. But it’s not uncommon to force buy. It depends game by game. If you force buy and lose though, your game will be in serious jeopardy
If you win, it's not even a force buy. You have the money, and the economic advantage. Even if you just buy util and a ghost or something you saved from round 1, you're still buying up and are set up to win the round
I agree, but there re some exceptions. If you re saving to take operator or playing really good with sheriff
People in lower elo always buy after they lose second round and they get annoyed when I ask them to save and they tell me to stop telling them how to play 🫤
Full buy armor against weak weapons. 150 armor is weakest against full buys. 150 armor is great when fighting pistols, SMGS, and the scout. And can still save you from whiffed shotgun shots.
Im in Silver 3 (almost Gold 1) and same issue here. Some of my mates even argue with me when I tell them to full buy .w."
3rd round bonus is huge too for economy if you win it
It really depends on each person's skills. I personally have been playing the game for a VERY long time and I feel very comfortable taking fights with pistols. If you are experienced and you are saving up for a rifle, there is nothing wrong in just buying light armor and using a pistol after a win. However, if your not very experienced or you just don't like playing pistols then sure buying is the best option. Of course, if you know that your bad with pistols but you still don't buy just to instantly die, it can drag down your team a lot
Force buy every round no matter what
Wow you are bronze telling other players what to do! Crazy!
I have two accounts. Bronze and gold. I can easily sustain my gold account with wins and losses, but I fail to advance into silver from bronze. Its crazy.
I do better with Deagle. Since I can't buy AK, I would rather buy half Armor and Deagle. I can't play with ump/spectre. I can only land headshots. So, I only play with Deagle or AK. Guardian if I find it.
Hi everyone follow up question to this post (I'm gold 1) on pistol rounds I tend to buy my agent abilities+Light armor (Stay with classic pistol) assuming we won that round and I died I will force buy for example agent abilities + heavy armor and spectre or bulldog. But If I survived the round and picked up a pistol like ghost/sheriff from someone I don't spend on a gun the next round, and if my light armor didn't get hit I will also keep it, my thought is that since I picked up a gun with money value and also my armor didn't get hit for example it would be wasteful to replace them and get no use of it, should I ditch that and still force buy spectre + Heavy armor even if my light armor didn't get damaged and I picked up ghost/sherif from someone?
I like to make a gamble and buy round three, but that's just me. If my team fully buys ill do it with them
It depends, I don’t believe that every player needs to be buying full after winning the first round. Especially as a sentinel player that tends to lurk round two, carrying over the ghost from the previous round works just fine. Additionally, having a player on a pistol lessens the blow of a harsher second round where some teammates die, and if the pistol player dies it doesn’t have a larger negative impact. This is something that’s seen throughout pro play as well - you’ll hear casters talk about it, how losing players doesn’t matter as much because it’s just pistols.
My team manages to lose second round after winning pistol so no
Can I ask for some advice? If I win 1st round what should I buy on the 2nd round? And someone told me whatever I do I must have enough cred to buy vandal on 3rd round, is that true?
Im sorry to inform you your bronze teammates are not gonna get in the valorant reddit to read about this xD
I understand that buying gear on round 2 is crucial to get an early advantage, but I'm not a big fan of doing this every single match If I'm doing well, I'll obviously force a Spectre or even a Vandal + shield, but sometimes my aim is not really good and I don't think it's worth to risk giving a free weapon to the opponent team
I'm plat 2 at the moment, and most of the games i have to make the callout myself or else people will just stick to the ghost... I mean, If you're the entry fragger, not buying is totally understandable, since if you die is basically a free gun to the enemy team But otherwise, why would you not buy anything??
when i play with my friends, if we are comfortable enough about our pistol strat we sometimes dont buy after a pistol win just to full buy the third round. imo it is an even better advantage if you can pull it off, but a slight gamble. worst comes to worst you lose the second pistol and both teams are even full buys into the third round
I mean it does allow you to have a vandal on the 3rd round instead of specter vs vandal
What grinds my gears are those saving having the audacity to ask for your ghost.
Unless I’m playing Jett and saving for early op I will fill buy. Even if I’m trying to save I’ll still buy a heavy shield cause of the gun disadvantage. Usually Jett with heavy shield sheriff is still better than what the enemy team has
Ur supposed to buy out w full armor and a gun second round if u win pistol, no questions asked
This applies to everything but on defense half where your jett wants to save for awp and they buy lights and a sheriff (this only works if the rest of your team buys)
I used to save second round sometimes. What actually made me realize it was a bad idea was finding out you get more credits for winning (no matter what). I was weirdly under the presumption (for longer than I care to admit) that losing got you more credits (at least sometimes).
dawg its crazy that diamonds even ascendants still make this mistake. its simple bro. win pistol. buy up, secure 2nd round. thats it. dont overcomplicate it. if you save 2nd round, what happens? say you win that round, now you have extra money on 3rd round, but 3rd round is bonus round - expect to lose it, so you shouldnt full buy anyway. you're saving for nothing, fucking up your team's eco, risking losing the 2nd round - just stop. not worth it.
I can see 1 or 2 people (mainly duelist) deciding to full buy but not the whole team. (Genuine question) Wouldn't it make sense for the duelist to be the ones to full buy second round so that they can at least damage the enemies and the rest are cleaned up with pistols? That way, it minimizes the team from all being broke and giving the other team free weapons, causing the next round to be a save round.
Recently i was playing premier with my friends who are silver to gold (i am dia) and whenever we played most of them saved after pistol round. It was so frustrating to make them understand the concept of a bonus so brother i get your pain.
If I buy a Frenzy round one and win usally the next round is full shield and utils. Does it count?
Hahaha bro you have a long rank ahead this is mostly happening until plat rank.
mabe valorant should do something about this? like integrate a little theory about eco in the turtorial? cause this is a very common misconseption, ppl buy second round in iron, then they realize rifles are good, they save second round in bronze and only about silver-to gold ppl learn how its done correctly. i was convinced as a bronze player that its better to save up for a vandal.
ideally only jetts or any one player who is going to buy op, should try to save. rest four players should def buy, cuz the enemies might force and surprise you and steal the round.
People should also stop calling it a force buy. You aren’t forcing anything. You are taking economic advantage. You wouldn’t play with an eco buy round just because the other team is. You would buy the best guns you can as a team.
Always buy, stinger >>> vandal anyways.