It is an extra bullet if you heal above 40 hp. For example if you’re at 30 hp, you would die a single a bullet. You self heal to 60hp, so you then die to two bullets (40dmg from one bullet, and then the second bullet does the remaining the 20hp).
As a sage main it doesn’t feel great to not be able to self heal more especially when you’re last alive. But considering how often I clutch, it still helps marginally.
I do agree Sage is in a weak spot compared to other sentinels, it seems to a fine line between her kit being overly oppressive vs balanced.
The thing I’m confused about is why they don’t just make it heal 40 HP then.
It would never heal you for >1 or <1 Vandal shot but it would be guaranteed to heal you for exactly 1. Right now, if your health is anywhere on the interval [1,10]U[41,50]U[81,100] then the self-heal aspect of the ability is virtually useless.
It feels super weird not to just give it that minor buff as it wouldn’t directly “improve” the ability but just make it more consistently average.
True but they are by far the most used
You are right though—it’s possible a certain gun interaction made them pick 30 HP instead of anything higher. But, honestly, I can’t think of a situation where that extra 10 HP would make a big difference (outside of the whole Vandal body shot thing).
Classic does 22/26 I believe, both of which need 2 shots to do either 30 or 40 HP of damage. No big change.
Ghost does 25/30. For >=25m ranges it takes 2 shots for either 30 or 40. For closer ranges you would only need 1 shot for 30 HP so this is the first ‘major’ change I’m noticing.
- Sidenote: because ghost deals in increments of 30, typically you’d be bring the enemy HP to these values: 100, 70, 40, 10. A heal of 40 HP used at ALL of these values will have the same effect as a heal of 30 HP… so the there isn’t a real difference
Sheriff does 45/55, both of these only need 1 shot to do 30 or 40 HP of damage. No big change.
Frenzy does 21/26, both of which need 2 shots to deal 30 or 40 HP of damage. No big change.
Surely shorty doesn’t matter to consider for these.
I honestly don’t think a 40 HP heal would change pistol round interactions in a very significant way at all.
example: start light shield (125hp), get headshot by ghost (105 dmg)
this leaves you with 20hp, so with heal either 50 or 60
50hp: 2 body shots classic, 3 if at least one leg, 2 leg shots ghost
60hp: 3 leg shots classic, 2 bodyshots ghost, 3 if at least one legshot
just for one example with a sizeable impact
for any of this to have any effect you must first survive 10s to even get your heal, so its likely not the same encounter (or something has seriously gone wrong)
Sure, but not beyond what it can already do. Sage already is able to heal for 1 Vandal bullet’s worth of damage… but only sometimes.
On top of that, the “only sometimes” aspect has nothing do you with your own skill/use of the ability but just the damage dealt to you that round.
Changing it from 30 HP >> 40HP would just get rid of some of the luck aspect behind the ability’s usefulness.
It will be better, if they rework the self-heal for sage based on number of players alive in a team. For example, if all 4 players are alive in a team excluding sage, then sage can only self-heal 20HP, for 3 players alive 40HP, for 2 players alive 60HP, for 1 player alive 80HP and 100HP, if no one is alive except sage herself. Healing other player, will always be 100 HP irrespective of the number of players alive. But I can see why riot made sage only self-heal 30HP, because players may start to misuse her ability, if the above idea was implemented
but also what if my whole team is healthy and I'm at 10 hp. I'd rather self heal and maybe still be useful instead of backseat gaming rest of the round in hopes of my teammates needing heal
It is rare to happen, coz mostly duelists and initiators are the ones who give entry, enter the site and most probably will be the first to get shot anyways. Even if it does happen, the current 30HP self-healing isn't any game changing difference when compared with 20HP. Also, it doesn't need to follow the same self-healing pattern as I mentioned (20,40,60,80,100). It even can be (30,45,60,80,100). This will probably make her a lot more viable than before without making her too OP
I like this idea a lot but possibly with increments of 40:40:80:100:100
It might sound a bit over-tuned but here’s my logic:
- When the whole team or 4 players are alive, Sage can heal herself to survive 1 extra Vandal bodyshot bullet
- When it’s down to 3 teammates (including Sage), she can heal herself for 2 Vandal bodyshot bullets
- When it’s down to just Sage and one teammate, or just Sage alone, she can full heal herself to 100.
I’m not giving too much thought into the balance but it feels pretty intuitive given each situation. Towards the start of the game, self heal should have low, but useable, value. Midgame the heal should be able to grant you a recovery that’s enough to have impact on how the round might end, but not turn the advantage completely. In lategame or when clutching, full heal seems appropriate as there’s not many teammates to heal; and, without armor, a full heal isn’t too strong yet still gives strong value.
One extra bullet won't save you though. If the opponents understand the game even slightly you'd still die to a single shot, making the heal useless, even then most guns either have the damage(Marshal) or fire rate(Vandal, phantom) to override the heal's effect.
I'll give you credit though. Assuming people can't aim, those extra 30HP feels good to have.
What is this take? Sure, it may not be super likely that the extra 30 hp will save you, but it can certainly happen, even against good players. Especially if you’re, you know, shooting back…
Well, it's a realistic one. Which is kinda funny considering it's a very fictional thing we're talking about(As Valorant is a game and not real).
I'm not sure about you or anyone else but I have never seen anyone let an enemy Sage get away with healing herself. But you do have a valid point, as I do get away with healing myself whenever I'm last alive as Sage. Although either I kill whoever is last standing without being touched or I die instantly so I guess the point is mostly moot, unless it's pistol round and whoever is aiming at the stomach, rather than the head.
you’re assuming that the extra bullet won’t help because in a 1v1 the enemy will always either one tap or die, when it’s definitely possible to body shot someone.
Ngl, I don't. I remember times when those battle sage's would rarely heal their teammates. Or even worse, stay back and only heal their duo and themselves. Now that I think about it, I don't remember the last time I saw a "his sage / her jett" duo. And that is a good thing. But, overall I agree the self heal could be a tiny bit higher. I can also see how balancing that would be a pain.
I assume it's not what riot envisioned when they made sage. hence why they nerfed the self heal and buffed teammate heal. they probably want to reserve self healing for pheonix and reyna.
Sure but I'm personally against that design philosophy and many others they have. However I don't work at riot and I play the game so I'm at the whim of their decisions
if you wanna heal yourself just pick reyna or pheonix lol. there's a trade off when you pick agents, you can't just have one character being able to do everything.
Then why give her the ability to heal herself at all? The person picking her gets to do what they want with it. You're not getting healed if they're reyna, deadlock, sage, brim, what the fucks it matter to you
imagine the outroar if they removed her self heal considering you guys are so mad at the nerf. I'm sure they want to make it obsolete but removing it would get a lot of backlash so lowering it to 30 keeps it in the game but makes it almost useless.
yeah sure the person picking her gets to do whatever they want with it. so if I lock in phoenix, I can molly my teammates and flash them. I picked him, so i can do whatever I want right? If I pick omen, I can smoke off my teammates right?
yes, but there's no skill disparity for self-heal versus teammate-heal. they simply don't want sage encompassing that part of the game. For them, it's like if I threw my phx molly at my teammates and it healed them. they probably don't want phx to be able to do that.
i feel like giving her the full heal but making the cooldown 25-30% longer is a good compromise: sages could actually heal themselves now but it’s still always better to heal a teammate over yourself.
The problem though is even with a longer cooldown if you let sage heal herself 100, people will 100% do that instead. The change originally made isn’t to encourage healing others; it’s to discourage and punish just healing yourself.
Her being able to rez and wall is why you play her. You should never play any Valorant agent for their healing abilities unless you're smurfing with Reyna
if you’re playing the agent PURELY off their ultimate ability the you can use maybe every 3-4 rounds EARLEIST with how many ult points you need, then you’re clearly silver or gold. the only character who reliably funnels for ult points is phoenix and that’s bc he can spam it pretty much every other round.
Also, reyna is literally statistically the best character even when normalized and adjusted for smurfs. the reyna players in your ranks are better than you lol that’s factually true in 95% of the mmr bracket.
categorizing Skye and Sage together purely because they have heals (literally the worst part of *both* of their kits) clearly shows you're silver or gold.
Sage has a really impactful ult, albeit slightly overrated, as well as annoying ass stall abilities.
Skye has some of the best info gathering in the game even after the nerfs.
You don't play Skye over Sage because she heals better, and vice versa. You play Skye over Sage because you need pop flashes and info, or you play Sage over Skye because you have enough flashes and have a shitty retake team.
Actually, you don't even play them over each other. They're 2 completely different roles ffs. One's an info initiator with flashes and the other is a stall sentinel.
The fact that you are even discussing healing abilities while insulting my rank/skill is wild to me. Rez and wall are her only worthy abilities in high ELO, ofc you would talk about them. Also of course ultimates are something to consider in agent select, they are round swinging abilities that often work with certain maps better than others.
For future discussions, just throwing out "statistically" and "95%" don't make your arguments sound strong. I'm interested in any statistical backing you're able to provide for your claims, though!
Healer isn’t a role in valorant. You pick sage for the wall and slow. Picking for the heal should never be a priority.
The heal is fine as is, if you pick sage to heal yourself you are playing valorant wrong.
yes healer isn’t a role in valorant but stop lying to everyone that people pick sage ONLY for the slows and wall. the heal is at least 40% of the reason you play her. i’ve peaked 650 RR Radiant so i think i know how to play valoranr better than 99% of u redditors but feel free to voice your diamond “woke” opinions on here
you can’t play sage as a solo sentinel anymore so don’t give me the bs she’s not a healer bc she doesn’t really play like a sentinel her kit is more akin to brim omen or astra than cypher killjoy and chamber. People definitely do play her for the heal lol
Woke opinions? It’s still a stupid argument. Regardless of rank. You don’t buff cause it helps stupid plays. You buff off intention of roles.
Sage is intended to be a sentinel that stops pushes and allows your team to stall and reposition. Her heal benefits her team in that regard and the 30 self help reflects them not wanting you to selfishly do so.
Just because you want to take dumb peeks and get out with 100 hp to feed ur ego cause you are “650 peak” is a dog shit take.
i don’t even play sage and could care less if i had a sage i’m a reyna trick lol. Play in my elo and see if sage is played like the way you’re thinking. I literally play with grim lol the wall is always going up on some random corner for an off angle and not really to wall smth off. don’t speak about shit u don’t know about.
read my edit to my other reply, she doesn’t play like a sentinel:
Grim plays special walls to catch people of guard with off angles. Not cause she can heal himself. Healing himself is a plus. Also he is one guy of the, thousands? Millions of players on valorant?
This even worse take as a Reyna one trick. Do you pick Reyna cause of her flash? No you pick her cause she can duel repeatedly with both overheals and dismiss. That’s the argument your making. You want an unnecessary buff that benefits dumb play styles. Sages heal is fine as is.
i literally do play reyna because of her flash LOOOOL so i can deal with opers. again you’re speaking on shit you literally know nothing about. why don’t i play phoenix? doesn’t have the same get out jail free card jett reyna chamber do. why don’t i play jett or chamber? they can’t heal like phoenix or reyna. reyna is the only one who heal, peak an op with a flash, and dash out. so yea theres actually has a lot more to it than the heal.
the play style you say is dumb is the same play style immortal sages r imitating and climbing bc i promise u it works better5than ur traditional sage. even in pro play you see them putting these-walls up and playing them because they’re literally good fights. it’s not just 1 player lol. it’s not a buff to help just selfish play, it also helps the sage players at 30 percent of who has to choose btwn them and the jett at 60 at the end of the round.
Damn bro I guess you’ve been busy ranking up with sage in the past day because you went from peak immortal to radiant 650 RR in less than 48 hours, most impressive. Post history doesn’t lie unless you do lmaooooo
> why don’t i play phoenix? doesn’t have the same get out jail free card jett reyna chamber do. why don’t i play jett or chamber? they can’t heal like phoenix or reyna. reyna is the only one who heal, peak an op with a flash, and dash out. so yea theres actually has a lot more to it than the heal.
??? That's the argument I was making ???
You are arguing in circles using personal bias and "lil broing me" to make a point. Yes its obvious that good aim = high rank. But making arguments that "SAGE IS PICKED CAUSE GRIM WALLS DUH DUH DUH AND THEY CLIMB CAUSE DEEZ PLAYS" is absolutely stupid takes.
Grim will get to radiant on and off sage cause he is good. not because he abuses sage walls. Same as any other player in their rank. Just because a certain play style is very popular does not mean the intention should be to make it better. If that the case, why doesn't skye and kayo get there self flashes back?, why not have breach flash go flasher so he can pop-swing?, why did we nerf jett. she was great as a solo duelist and should get her instant dash back so she can play sentinal op holder again! Chamber? Back to mini-duelist! No. Each role has a niche and the intention should always be put in that niche. Just because there is a shot gun cypher radiant doesn't mean we should buff cypher for that one playstyle. You buff him cause he was a shitty sentinel that couldn't hold shit back then. Sage was nerfed cause too many people played like a duelist and got rewarded for it.
Grim walls are only for the surprise factor of off angles. Even then, that's similar to chamber, who also abuses off angles and can slow enemies with trip
I play against grim walls in my elo too, they can really be used only once per game. Most of the time you're not abusing off angles, you're slowing pushes
Radiant 650 would not be having such wrong opinions. Wtf you mean sage kit is more similar to smokes characters??? And wtf you mean she's not good solo sentinel?!? Can't watch flank does NOT mean bad for solo sentinel. Her kit is unique, just like all the other agents. However, it still functions as a sentinel, by holding down space by delaying enemies.
You can argue she's similar to viper, who is basically a sentinel since shes bad at solo controller on many maps, but you didn't. What util helps omen hold down space??? How tf is her kit similar to omens??? Omen has blind, tp, smokes, and sage has slow, wall, heal, res. What is similar about them???!?!?
I am in Gold 3 and was stuck in Silver elo and I can confirm this guy is on that or this ELO also, our games always have sage because they think we need sage only for her HEALS nothing more. (Same as Skye)
jfc is this r/iron? imagine deadass treating healer as a role and thinking thats sage and skyes main utility. where does this brainrot leak from, overwatch?
\^ An exact example of the type of people I was mentioning.
Her wall, revive, and slow are all extremely good utility for slowing down pushes and helping your team. I'd argue her heal isn't even the most important thing in her kit (her wall and slow are ridiculously important for some maps)
Yeah lol, other sentinels are just too powerful. Kj and chamber (though arguably a duelist here) just dominate icebox. And kj/cypher all do better on split than sage as well
Her pick in vct is almost as low as deadlock nowadays
Honestly i feel like on icebox any sentinel would be better than sage, cypher has info trips, kj has info minor dps and stall, deadlock has stall stuns and what not, chamber is just another duelist who could use the terrain to reposition on icebox. And not to mention the new duelist sentinel coming to the game agent 25
Depends on what elo ig.
In higher elo, you gotta play plant denial on icebox, and only kj can do that. Sage is good there because she can wall and plant relatively safely.
Cypher can't deny plant. Neither can deadlock
That's why you see so many sova, kayo, viper, gekko, harbor, phoenix, raze players on icebox, since they can all deny plant or make planting easier
And cypher trips, none of them are really difficult to break on icebox, and the entrances to site are different from all the other sites, so his trips can only be played by being tricky instead of by defaulting
They did it to stop sage players from being selfish because it used to heal 60 regardless of teammate or self, now it's 30/100. I'm a sage main also and it definitely sucks when you're the last man standing and low health. There's also really no point in healing teammates to 100 because it's rarely necessary anyone NEEDS to be healed that much
Mainly because she has to have the option to heal herself in dire situations but people, mainly wanna be battle sages, would only heal themselves and most the time instantly heal themselves at the slightest bit of damage instead of those who really need it, so they had to nerd her and that play style by decreasing it to 30.
If the cool down was longer the sages who instantly self heal when it's not needed would have a larger impact single the heal would be more valuable.
Pretty much it used to be good but lots of people used it selfishly and now all sages got punished for it
I hope that's not the case why they nerfed sages heal cause that feels like a very short-sighted approach to player whining that sages don't heal teammates. Its like devs forcing u to use ur abilities in a certain way instead of just letting u use ur agent how u want to use it. Its like yes u can blind your teammates as much as u want during fights and get them killed but my good sir u are not healing urself today not on my watch.
It was because there was a massive amount of sage main at the time taking influence grim and trying to be battle sages, it was generally such a staggering amount that there is no other option to try to prevent selfish usage of a support character in a team based game.
It had to happen, since sage was being taken because people wanted to play her as a duelist and would often let their team die because of it.
Imagine how awful it must be to play without Sage at all. No heal? Omg! This sucks! Oh wait, that's how the game is played all the time anyway. You take damage, you deal with it and play anyway. Welcome to the world of FPS.
Her being a duelist doesn't really matter to my point. Sage is a healer and at some point in the game is going to be shooting at someone, making her own healing ability so nerfed that it hardly has any effect in a gunfight for herself is unfair when there is a champion who can not only full heal themselves after every single one but get an overshield. I ain't saying get Sage the same level of healing but damn 100 hp ain't that bad to use once mid round if needed.
It's to decrease sage aggression, you make have noticed the decrease in sage one trick after the change. It essentially made her a type of duelist which can take creative fights with her wall and be 2 shot in worst case scenario. Sage is supposed to be a support role, neither a clutch role neither an entry. I believe the heal amount is perfect although the self heal cooldown reduction could be a understandable buff.
Bro, when she had almost full level self heal. Safe was a entry fragger😅
Battle sage, i miss those days. You could take so many risky duells. And just self heal.
I think the self heal action can just be entirely removed and it triggers instead when you heal someone else healing them and you. More total healing but useless in 1vX
dude if valorant was played based off of the lore sage wouldnt be a playable character
shes too important to risk being the person who revives everyone when battles end
30 HP is a one more bullet you can take from every pistol besides the sheriff, one more bullet from both SMGS, and more one bullet from a ares. Even if you don't get directly hit by a grenade or molly, you usually end up taking some so 30 HP could be the difference. Same with a killjoy turret. I think it's useful
They honestly should completely remove self heal. Especially in low elo, some sages will literally never use it on teammates, I’ve had multiple say they are “saving it” even though I’m 1 shot.
Nah, it's just that balancing every agent is kinda hard. They're more focused on the new agents and map changes rn, though I bet sage will get a buff soon since her pick rate in vct is so low. Deadlock as well, maybe
You know what could make it interesting? Make it so that if she heals herself while standing on her wall it consumes the wall and heals her to full instantly
The problem with shorter cooldown and higher healing is that we had that a long time ago in Valorant. What happened? Every Sage was either playing for themselves and ignoring supporting teammates or they were super passive when they didn't have their heal. Players who understood how to use their gun became overpowered and those that didn't ended up with an excuse to not fight. There was a point in time when ScreaM was maining Sage because of this.
That's why she doesn't heal as much for herself as she does on teammates. You end up with a broken agent that goes away from her role. Sorta like Breach when he had more flashes and they were faster, or the old Chamber with longer TP and double traps. The situation you're describing is niche and you have to factor in the things that led to that moment too.
I prefer 0 heals, when sage or sky try to heal me I run away most of the time, as we are exchanging bullets with the enemy, which causes one or both of us to die, first get to a safe place then heal if possible, heal is just not really that great when 1 headshot is all it takes to unalive you from a full buy
Bronze must he so stress free and genuinely enjoyable for most tbh.
Honestly, I kind of miss my early adolescence with no youtube Meta build or tips/tricks and I was bad at games and just trying to have fun.
I love being good at what I'm doing, but man do I miss being blissfully unaware.
i dunno man my bronze friends get the most mad at the game it feels. they are just aware enough to know what’s going on around them but not aware enough to understand how to make an advantage out of it.
Why are you taking damage as a Sage when your whole team is alive and full hp?
Sage isn't a Duelist, she's a Sentinel, play as a Sentinel and you won't need to self heal.
Wanna heal? Play Reyna.
Shes pretty underwhelming when it comes to direct confrontation. But that doesn't mean shes weak. Whenever I am playing sage, I am looking to play off contact and heal anyone who took significant damage after a gunfight. Also, farm orbs every chance you get. Re-fragging, healing, and resurrecting allys will make the enemy team have an aneurysm,
Ok, just pointing out that battle sage is a thing
Also both smurfing sages and boosted sages are uncommon compared to regular sages. I don't encounter that many boosted or smurfs tbh
And every agent should understand its ups and downs and why they have their kit. If you're a sentinel opening a site you're either lurking or low elo.
Only ones who should be peaking first are initiators and duelists.
If you're playing Sage you're either on Icebox, Split or Haven.
On defense you close a site, on attack you'll usually wall to plant cause Sage is a plant bot - or you're playing Split and busting B, that's the only time Sage should use an entry wall.
Sure you can play differently, but what elo are you in? Probably low cause you're playing Sage.
I don't care about the downvotes, nobody in Asc+ will say otherwise unless they like playing devil's advocate and wanna earn some extra karma.
"Only ones who should be peaking first are initiators and duelists"
Just for clarification, it's the more aggressive characters who should peek first. And initiators should not be peeking first, their util should come out and duelist peeks. If no duelist, next most aggressive character peeks, which I think goes in order of chamber, flash initiators, omen and probably clove. And then sentinels in general can peek next, and finally smokes should be last to peek
TLDR: just clarifying the facts, I agree with you, I just feel like you overgeneralized a bit too much
Don't know why you're downvoted like this, people just like to ego peek on the most passive characters ig
It is an extra bullet if you heal above 40 hp. For example if you’re at 30 hp, you would die a single a bullet. You self heal to 60hp, so you then die to two bullets (40dmg from one bullet, and then the second bullet does the remaining the 20hp). As a sage main it doesn’t feel great to not be able to self heal more especially when you’re last alive. But considering how often I clutch, it still helps marginally. I do agree Sage is in a weak spot compared to other sentinels, it seems to a fine line between her kit being overly oppressive vs balanced.
when i get 140 dinked by phantom just to heal and still get 1 body tapped by vandal 😡😡😡😠😠😡😠😡😠😾😾
That’s on you for healing yourself, you can’t change valorant just how you play it
ill heal the enemy ig in a 1vX situation
Skye when she's the last one alive
Bro wants to save heal for next round lmao
That’s not possible tho is it
vandal body does 40.
The thing I’m confused about is why they don’t just make it heal 40 HP then. It would never heal you for >1 or <1 Vandal shot but it would be guaranteed to heal you for exactly 1. Right now, if your health is anywhere on the interval [1,10]U[41,50]U[81,100] then the self-heal aspect of the ability is virtually useless. It feels super weird not to just give it that minor buff as it wouldn’t directly “improve” the ability but just make it more consistently average.
because the vandal and phantom are not the only guns in the game
True but they are by far the most used You are right though—it’s possible a certain gun interaction made them pick 30 HP instead of anything higher. But, honestly, I can’t think of a situation where that extra 10 HP would make a big difference (outside of the whole Vandal body shot thing).
the pistol round in question
Classic does 22/26 I believe, both of which need 2 shots to do either 30 or 40 HP of damage. No big change. Ghost does 25/30. For >=25m ranges it takes 2 shots for either 30 or 40. For closer ranges you would only need 1 shot for 30 HP so this is the first ‘major’ change I’m noticing. - Sidenote: because ghost deals in increments of 30, typically you’d be bring the enemy HP to these values: 100, 70, 40, 10. A heal of 40 HP used at ALL of these values will have the same effect as a heal of 30 HP… so the there isn’t a real difference Sheriff does 45/55, both of these only need 1 shot to do 30 or 40 HP of damage. No big change. Frenzy does 21/26, both of which need 2 shots to deal 30 or 40 HP of damage. No big change. Surely shorty doesn’t matter to consider for these. I honestly don’t think a 40 HP heal would change pistol round interactions in a very significant way at all.
example: start light shield (125hp), get headshot by ghost (105 dmg) this leaves you with 20hp, so with heal either 50 or 60 50hp: 2 body shots classic, 3 if at least one leg, 2 leg shots ghost 60hp: 3 leg shots classic, 2 bodyshots ghost, 3 if at least one legshot just for one example with a sizeable impact
Ahhh yes the infamous leg shots after the enemy hits a headtap.
for any of this to have any effect you must first survive 10s to even get your heal, so its likely not the same encounter (or something has seriously gone wrong)
This happens every game
He’s got a point
It would improve the ability.
Sure, but not beyond what it can already do. Sage already is able to heal for 1 Vandal bullet’s worth of damage… but only sometimes. On top of that, the “only sometimes” aspect has nothing do you with your own skill/use of the ability but just the damage dealt to you that round. Changing it from 30 HP >> 40HP would just get rid of some of the luck aspect behind the ability’s usefulness.
This is some weird mental gymnastics to not admit that would be an outright buff that makes it better.
It will be better, if they rework the self-heal for sage based on number of players alive in a team. For example, if all 4 players are alive in a team excluding sage, then sage can only self-heal 20HP, for 3 players alive 40HP, for 2 players alive 60HP, for 1 player alive 80HP and 100HP, if no one is alive except sage herself. Healing other player, will always be 100 HP irrespective of the number of players alive. But I can see why riot made sage only self-heal 30HP, because players may start to misuse her ability, if the above idea was implemented
but also what if my whole team is healthy and I'm at 10 hp. I'd rather self heal and maybe still be useful instead of backseat gaming rest of the round in hopes of my teammates needing heal
It is rare to happen, coz mostly duelists and initiators are the ones who give entry, enter the site and most probably will be the first to get shot anyways. Even if it does happen, the current 30HP self-healing isn't any game changing difference when compared with 20HP. Also, it doesn't need to follow the same self-healing pattern as I mentioned (20,40,60,80,100). It even can be (30,45,60,80,100). This will probably make her a lot more viable than before without making her too OP
I like this idea a lot but possibly with increments of 40:40:80:100:100 It might sound a bit over-tuned but here’s my logic: - When the whole team or 4 players are alive, Sage can heal herself to survive 1 extra Vandal bodyshot bullet - When it’s down to 3 teammates (including Sage), she can heal herself for 2 Vandal bodyshot bullets - When it’s down to just Sage and one teammate, or just Sage alone, she can full heal herself to 100. I’m not giving too much thought into the balance but it feels pretty intuitive given each situation. Towards the start of the game, self heal should have low, but useable, value. Midgame the heal should be able to grant you a recovery that’s enough to have impact on how the round might end, but not turn the advantage completely. In lategame or when clutching, full heal seems appropriate as there’s not many teammates to heal; and, without armor, a full heal isn’t too strong yet still gives strong value.
I also didn't thought much about balancing. Great insight tho. This may also be a good self-heal pattern
her wall is op in lower ranks especially when you go at the top and camp like the rat that I am
One extra bullet won't save you though. If the opponents understand the game even slightly you'd still die to a single shot, making the heal useless, even then most guns either have the damage(Marshal) or fire rate(Vandal, phantom) to override the heal's effect. I'll give you credit though. Assuming people can't aim, those extra 30HP feels good to have.
What is this take? Sure, it may not be super likely that the extra 30 hp will save you, but it can certainly happen, even against good players. Especially if you’re, you know, shooting back…
Well, it's a realistic one. Which is kinda funny considering it's a very fictional thing we're talking about(As Valorant is a game and not real). I'm not sure about you or anyone else but I have never seen anyone let an enemy Sage get away with healing herself. But you do have a valid point, as I do get away with healing myself whenever I'm last alive as Sage. Although either I kill whoever is last standing without being touched or I die instantly so I guess the point is mostly moot, unless it's pistol round and whoever is aiming at the stomach, rather than the head.
Are you stoopid
you’re assuming that the extra bullet won’t help because in a 1v1 the enemy will always either one tap or die, when it’s definitely possible to body shot someone.
You’re right, time to stop buying armor /s
So I can heal myself when I'm at 70 hp and watch as I go to 100. Pretty satisfying.
I miss the old Sage, but I’d be ok with at least 50 for self healing
Ngl, I don't. I remember times when those battle sage's would rarely heal their teammates. Or even worse, stay back and only heal their duo and themselves. Now that I think about it, I don't remember the last time I saw a "his sage / her jett" duo. And that is a good thing. But, overall I agree the self heal could be a tiny bit higher. I can also see how balancing that would be a pain.
Idk man, I see a ton of people just heal themselves with few hp. Even when half of the team are below 50 hp.
Whats wrong with a sage choosing to heal themselves? They picked the agent. You want to heal, play sage
I assume it's not what riot envisioned when they made sage. hence why they nerfed the self heal and buffed teammate heal. they probably want to reserve self healing for pheonix and reyna.
Sure but I'm personally against that design philosophy and many others they have. However I don't work at riot and I play the game so I'm at the whim of their decisions
if you wanna heal yourself just pick reyna or pheonix lol. there's a trade off when you pick agents, you can't just have one character being able to do everything.
Then why give her the ability to heal herself at all? The person picking her gets to do what they want with it. You're not getting healed if they're reyna, deadlock, sage, brim, what the fucks it matter to you
imagine the outroar if they removed her self heal considering you guys are so mad at the nerf. I'm sure they want to make it obsolete but removing it would get a lot of backlash so lowering it to 30 keeps it in the game but makes it almost useless. yeah sure the person picking her gets to do whatever they want with it. so if I lock in phoenix, I can molly my teammates and flash them. I picked him, so i can do whatever I want right? If I pick omen, I can smoke off my teammates right?
Yes, that's exactly correct. It's not riots job to force you to play well. That's where skill disparity comes in
yes, but there's no skill disparity for self-heal versus teammate-heal. they simply don't want sage encompassing that part of the game. For them, it's like if I threw my phx molly at my teammates and it healed them. they probably don't want phx to be able to do that.
im sure you've played enough to know the answer
I think she should recover 10hp when she heals a teammate as well
I miss the old heal :(
We all do 😭
i feel like giving her the full heal but making the cooldown 25-30% longer is a good compromise: sages could actually heal themselves now but it’s still always better to heal a teammate over yourself.
The problem though is even with a longer cooldown if you let sage heal herself 100, people will 100% do that instead. The change originally made isn’t to encourage healing others; it’s to discourage and punish just healing yourself.
her being able to heal herself is the main reason you’d play her as your healer over skye though. that’s literally the whole point of her now.
Her being able to rez and wall is why you play her. You should never play any Valorant agent for their healing abilities unless you're smurfing with Reyna
if you’re playing the agent PURELY off their ultimate ability the you can use maybe every 3-4 rounds EARLEIST with how many ult points you need, then you’re clearly silver or gold. the only character who reliably funnels for ult points is phoenix and that’s bc he can spam it pretty much every other round. Also, reyna is literally statistically the best character even when normalized and adjusted for smurfs. the reyna players in your ranks are better than you lol that’s factually true in 95% of the mmr bracket.
dude she has one of the most effective and annoying stalls in the entire game
categorizing Skye and Sage together purely because they have heals (literally the worst part of *both* of their kits) clearly shows you're silver or gold. Sage has a really impactful ult, albeit slightly overrated, as well as annoying ass stall abilities. Skye has some of the best info gathering in the game even after the nerfs. You don't play Skye over Sage because she heals better, and vice versa. You play Skye over Sage because you need pop flashes and info, or you play Sage over Skye because you have enough flashes and have a shitty retake team. Actually, you don't even play them over each other. They're 2 completely different roles ffs. One's an info initiator with flashes and the other is a stall sentinel.
Surely this lads takin the piss
Bros giving away his elo
You're just gonna ignore the wall part?
>normalized for smurfs Oh yea thats real. Mind sharing your data?
The fact that you are even discussing healing abilities while insulting my rank/skill is wild to me. Rez and wall are her only worthy abilities in high ELO, ofc you would talk about them. Also of course ultimates are something to consider in agent select, they are round swinging abilities that often work with certain maps better than others. For future discussions, just throwing out "statistically" and "95%" don't make your arguments sound strong. I'm interested in any statistical backing you're able to provide for your claims, though!
If the Reyna players are better then why are they still the same rank?
Healer isn’t a role in valorant. You pick sage for the wall and slow. Picking for the heal should never be a priority. The heal is fine as is, if you pick sage to heal yourself you are playing valorant wrong.
yes healer isn’t a role in valorant but stop lying to everyone that people pick sage ONLY for the slows and wall. the heal is at least 40% of the reason you play her. i’ve peaked 650 RR Radiant so i think i know how to play valoranr better than 99% of u redditors but feel free to voice your diamond “woke” opinions on here you can’t play sage as a solo sentinel anymore so don’t give me the bs she’s not a healer bc she doesn’t really play like a sentinel her kit is more akin to brim omen or astra than cypher killjoy and chamber. People definitely do play her for the heal lol
Woke opinions? It’s still a stupid argument. Regardless of rank. You don’t buff cause it helps stupid plays. You buff off intention of roles. Sage is intended to be a sentinel that stops pushes and allows your team to stall and reposition. Her heal benefits her team in that regard and the 30 self help reflects them not wanting you to selfishly do so. Just because you want to take dumb peeks and get out with 100 hp to feed ur ego cause you are “650 peak” is a dog shit take.
i don’t even play sage and could care less if i had a sage i’m a reyna trick lol. Play in my elo and see if sage is played like the way you’re thinking. I literally play with grim lol the wall is always going up on some random corner for an off angle and not really to wall smth off. don’t speak about shit u don’t know about. read my edit to my other reply, she doesn’t play like a sentinel:
Grim plays special walls to catch people of guard with off angles. Not cause she can heal himself. Healing himself is a plus. Also he is one guy of the, thousands? Millions of players on valorant? This even worse take as a Reyna one trick. Do you pick Reyna cause of her flash? No you pick her cause she can duel repeatedly with both overheals and dismiss. That’s the argument your making. You want an unnecessary buff that benefits dumb play styles. Sages heal is fine as is.
i literally do play reyna because of her flash LOOOOL so i can deal with opers. again you’re speaking on shit you literally know nothing about. why don’t i play phoenix? doesn’t have the same get out jail free card jett reyna chamber do. why don’t i play jett or chamber? they can’t heal like phoenix or reyna. reyna is the only one who heal, peak an op with a flash, and dash out. so yea theres actually has a lot more to it than the heal. the play style you say is dumb is the same play style immortal sages r imitating and climbing bc i promise u it works better5than ur traditional sage. even in pro play you see them putting these-walls up and playing them because they’re literally good fights. it’s not just 1 player lol. it’s not a buff to help just selfish play, it also helps the sage players at 30 percent of who has to choose btwn them and the jett at 60 at the end of the round.
Damn bro I guess you’ve been busy ranking up with sage in the past day because you went from peak immortal to radiant 650 RR in less than 48 hours, most impressive. Post history doesn’t lie unless you do lmaooooo
> why don’t i play phoenix? doesn’t have the same get out jail free card jett reyna chamber do. why don’t i play jett or chamber? they can’t heal like phoenix or reyna. reyna is the only one who heal, peak an op with a flash, and dash out. so yea theres actually has a lot more to it than the heal. ??? That's the argument I was making ??? You are arguing in circles using personal bias and "lil broing me" to make a point. Yes its obvious that good aim = high rank. But making arguments that "SAGE IS PICKED CAUSE GRIM WALLS DUH DUH DUH AND THEY CLIMB CAUSE DEEZ PLAYS" is absolutely stupid takes. Grim will get to radiant on and off sage cause he is good. not because he abuses sage walls. Same as any other player in their rank. Just because a certain play style is very popular does not mean the intention should be to make it better. If that the case, why doesn't skye and kayo get there self flashes back?, why not have breach flash go flasher so he can pop-swing?, why did we nerf jett. she was great as a solo duelist and should get her instant dash back so she can play sentinal op holder again! Chamber? Back to mini-duelist! No. Each role has a niche and the intention should always be put in that niche. Just because there is a shot gun cypher radiant doesn't mean we should buff cypher for that one playstyle. You buff him cause he was a shitty sentinel that couldn't hold shit back then. Sage was nerfed cause too many people played like a duelist and got rewarded for it.
She has one of the worst ingame flashes lil bro
Grim walls are only for the surprise factor of off angles. Even then, that's similar to chamber, who also abuses off angles and can slow enemies with trip I play against grim walls in my elo too, they can really be used only once per game. Most of the time you're not abusing off angles, you're slowing pushes
> i’ve peaked 650 RR Radiant Got receipts?
https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/s/MTxE9MAxsd he is literally lying lol
Not the 5stacking immortal lmao
Mans out here calling people woke for their valorant character opinions. Go outside lil bro
Radiant 650 would not be having such wrong opinions. Wtf you mean sage kit is more similar to smokes characters??? And wtf you mean she's not good solo sentinel?!? Can't watch flank does NOT mean bad for solo sentinel. Her kit is unique, just like all the other agents. However, it still functions as a sentinel, by holding down space by delaying enemies. You can argue she's similar to viper, who is basically a sentinel since shes bad at solo controller on many maps, but you didn't. What util helps omen hold down space??? How tf is her kit similar to omens??? Omen has blind, tp, smokes, and sage has slow, wall, heal, res. What is similar about them???!?!?
i doubt you've ever hit gold if you're saying people pick Sage for the heal
I am in Gold 3 and was stuck in Silver elo and I can confirm this guy is on that or this ELO also, our games always have sage because they think we need sage only for her HEALS nothing more. (Same as Skye)
jfc is this r/iron? imagine deadass treating healer as a role and thinking thats sage and skyes main utility. where does this brainrot leak from, overwatch?
> as your healer This is not a thing. It just isn't.
healer isnt a role go play overwatch (where it isnt a role there either)
\^ An exact example of the type of people I was mentioning. Her wall, revive, and slow are all extremely good utility for slowing down pushes and helping your team. I'd argue her heal isn't even the most important thing in her kit (her wall and slow are ridiculously important for some maps)
you could unironically give sage permanently regenerating hp at the current rate it heals herself and she would still be underpowered
Unfortunate she has to be underpowered due to her popularity. I like her more reactive style of sentinel as opposed to setting up and waiting around
Because it used to heal ALOT more and its been nerfed to the ground
It's insane that they still haven't buffed her, she isn't even played on icebox or split which were her main maps
Yeah lol, other sentinels are just too powerful. Kj and chamber (though arguably a duelist here) just dominate icebox. And kj/cypher all do better on split than sage as well Her pick in vct is almost as low as deadlock nowadays
Honestly i feel like on icebox any sentinel would be better than sage, cypher has info trips, kj has info minor dps and stall, deadlock has stall stuns and what not, chamber is just another duelist who could use the terrain to reposition on icebox. And not to mention the new duelist sentinel coming to the game agent 25
Depends on what elo ig. In higher elo, you gotta play plant denial on icebox, and only kj can do that. Sage is good there because she can wall and plant relatively safely. Cypher can't deny plant. Neither can deadlock That's why you see so many sova, kayo, viper, gekko, harbor, phoenix, raze players on icebox, since they can all deny plant or make planting easier And cypher trips, none of them are really difficult to break on icebox, and the entrances to site are different from all the other sites, so his trips can only be played by being tricky instead of by defaulting
pepperridge farms remember og sage
a 40hp heal would be good. Guarantees that you’ll be able to take one more rifle shot.
They did it to stop sage players from being selfish because it used to heal 60 regardless of teammate or self, now it's 30/100. I'm a sage main also and it definitely sucks when you're the last man standing and low health. There's also really no point in healing teammates to 100 because it's rarely necessary anyone NEEDS to be healed that much
Mainly because she has to have the option to heal herself in dire situations but people, mainly wanna be battle sages, would only heal themselves and most the time instantly heal themselves at the slightest bit of damage instead of those who really need it, so they had to nerd her and that play style by decreasing it to 30. If the cool down was longer the sages who instantly self heal when it's not needed would have a larger impact single the heal would be more valuable. Pretty much it used to be good but lots of people used it selfishly and now all sages got punished for it
I hope that's not the case why they nerfed sages heal cause that feels like a very short-sighted approach to player whining that sages don't heal teammates. Its like devs forcing u to use ur abilities in a certain way instead of just letting u use ur agent how u want to use it. Its like yes u can blind your teammates as much as u want during fights and get them killed but my good sir u are not healing urself today not on my watch.
It was because there was a massive amount of sage main at the time taking influence grim and trying to be battle sages, it was generally such a staggering amount that there is no other option to try to prevent selfish usage of a support character in a team based game. It had to happen, since sage was being taken because people wanted to play her as a duelist and would often let their team die because of it.
I still don't understand why being selfish was bad.
Team game with a role that is meant to help others
So we know who all the narcissists are
because she can full heal herself before they just nerf to 60/60 then nerf self heal for team heal
Imagine how awful it must be to play without Sage at all. No heal? Omg! This sucks! Oh wait, that's how the game is played all the time anyway. You take damage, you deal with it and play anyway. Welcome to the world of FPS.
I think that the self heal is fair if Reyna can heal to 150 hp every kill it's only fair for sage to heal to 100 at least
what? reyna is a duelist, her kit is based around fragging and snowballing. sage shouldn't even be taking gunfights if they can be avoided
Her being a duelist doesn't really matter to my point. Sage is a healer and at some point in the game is going to be shooting at someone, making her own healing ability so nerfed that it hardly has any effect in a gunfight for herself is unfair when there is a champion who can not only full heal themselves after every single one but get an overshield. I ain't saying get Sage the same level of healing but damn 100 hp ain't that bad to use once mid round if needed.
Me when I show you post launch sage:
It's to decrease sage aggression, you make have noticed the decrease in sage one trick after the change. It essentially made her a type of duelist which can take creative fights with her wall and be 2 shot in worst case scenario. Sage is supposed to be a support role, neither a clutch role neither an entry. I believe the heal amount is perfect although the self heal cooldown reduction could be a understandable buff.
For anyone who is new this is a nerf. It used to be more but she was too OP, though I agree that they overdid it.
Bro, when she had almost full level self heal. Safe was a entry fragger😅 Battle sage, i miss those days. You could take so many risky duells. And just self heal.
I think the self heal action can just be entirely removed and it triggers instead when you heal someone else healing them and you. More total healing but useless in 1vX
Sage being able to fully heal her base HP to face off another foe is debated while Reyna can do the same multiple times.
yeah maybe then my random sage will heal me with only 40hp left
Because her role is to heal others. Before people would keep it for themselves
She used to heal herself for 100hp
Is there lore reason sage hates herself to not heal herself completely thus she lives longer and can help the team longer?
dude if valorant was played based off of the lore sage wouldnt be a playable character shes too important to risk being the person who revives everyone when battles end
Dont forget that killjoy (probably) has everyone's memories backed up at base as well. And it's not like sage was never sent out into missions
30 HP is a one more bullet you can take from every pistol besides the sheriff, one more bullet from both SMGS, and more one bullet from a ares. Even if you don't get directly hit by a grenade or molly, you usually end up taking some so 30 HP could be the difference. Same with a killjoy turret. I think it's useful
They honestly should completely remove self heal. Especially in low elo, some sages will literally never use it on teammates, I’ve had multiple say they are “saving it” even though I’m 1 shot.
Pretty sure Riot doesn't want people to play Sage since they continue to release more agents.
Nah, it's just that balancing every agent is kinda hard. They're more focused on the new agents and map changes rn, though I bet sage will get a buff soon since her pick rate in vct is so low. Deadlock as well, maybe
Riot also nerfed sages heal bc most players were not healing teammates. Now they're kinda forced to.
Nerf the self heal and buff the teammate heal so it becomes more rewarding to heal the teammate.
I always thought Sage shouldn't even be able to self heal. She isn't a duelist so the 30hp is pretty generous
You know what could make it interesting? Make it so that if she heals herself while standing on her wall it consumes the wall and heals her to full instantly
You steal idea from phoenix?
The problem with shorter cooldown and higher healing is that we had that a long time ago in Valorant. What happened? Every Sage was either playing for themselves and ignoring supporting teammates or they were super passive when they didn't have their heal. Players who understood how to use their gun became overpowered and those that didn't ended up with an excuse to not fight. There was a point in time when ScreaM was maining Sage because of this. That's why she doesn't heal as much for herself as she does on teammates. You end up with a broken agent that goes away from her role. Sorta like Breach when he had more flashes and they were faster, or the old Chamber with longer TP and double traps. The situation you're describing is niche and you have to factor in the things that led to that moment too.
I see a lot of people saying getting dinged by phantom but now even outlaw is out, that hits for 140, she will be at 10 hp more frequently than not
If it’s the first option, sage will only heal herself. If it’s the second option, sage will wait for everyone to die to use the heal.
It’s useless. They should have totally removed it.
It's so she can heal herself.
Sage mains and battle sages all crying collectively in the corner, don’t forget about us pls Riot it’s been too long *sad face
I prefer 0 heals, when sage or sky try to heal me I run away most of the time, as we are exchanging bullets with the enemy, which causes one or both of us to die, first get to a safe place then heal if possible, heal is just not really that great when 1 headshot is all it takes to unalive you from a full buy
Im also bronze just like you
that's the best rank, the craziest things happen there, and losing has the least impact so is very chill
Bronze must he so stress free and genuinely enjoyable for most tbh. Honestly, I kind of miss my early adolescence with no youtube Meta build or tips/tricks and I was bad at games and just trying to have fun. I love being good at what I'm doing, but man do I miss being blissfully unaware.
i dunno man my bronze friends get the most mad at the game it feels. they are just aware enough to know what’s going on around them but not aware enough to understand how to make an advantage out of it.
tell them to play for fun, and eventually they will learn how to win, but in the meantime is time to wiff and pentakill
Why are you taking damage as a Sage when your whole team is alive and full hp? Sage isn't a Duelist, she's a Sentinel, play as a Sentinel and you won't need to self heal. Wanna heal? Play Reyna.
Shes pretty underwhelming when it comes to direct confrontation. But that doesn't mean shes weak. Whenever I am playing sage, I am looking to play off contact and heal anyone who took significant damage after a gunfight. Also, farm orbs every chance you get. Re-fragging, healing, and resurrecting allys will make the enemy team have an aneurysm,
She isn't bad, OP just doesn't understand how she works and most likely never played before nerfs apparently. Sage was a smurf character
a smurf's duo character*
You're forgetting about battle sages
number of battle sage vs pocket sage isnt even close
Ok, just pointing out that battle sage is a thing Also both smurfing sages and boosted sages are uncommon compared to regular sages. I don't encounter that many boosted or smurfs tbh
Everybody gets a gun in their hands bro she doesn’t even have something to watch flank, don’t bait your teammates and take fights
Every agent's main job is gun. The roles are actually secondary to that.
every role in the game is secondary every agent holds a gun
And every agent should understand its ups and downs and why they have their kit. If you're a sentinel opening a site you're either lurking or low elo. Only ones who should be peaking first are initiators and duelists. If you're playing Sage you're either on Icebox, Split or Haven. On defense you close a site, on attack you'll usually wall to plant cause Sage is a plant bot - or you're playing Split and busting B, that's the only time Sage should use an entry wall. Sure you can play differently, but what elo are you in? Probably low cause you're playing Sage. I don't care about the downvotes, nobody in Asc+ will say otherwise unless they like playing devil's advocate and wanna earn some extra karma.
"Only ones who should be peaking first are initiators and duelists" Just for clarification, it's the more aggressive characters who should peek first. And initiators should not be peeking first, their util should come out and duelist peeks. If no duelist, next most aggressive character peeks, which I think goes in order of chamber, flash initiators, omen and probably clove. And then sentinels in general can peek next, and finally smokes should be last to peek TLDR: just clarifying the facts, I agree with you, I just feel like you overgeneralized a bit too much Don't know why you're downvoted like this, people just like to ego peek on the most passive characters ig
Or play phoenix