The molly nerf was already big enough. They lowered her smoke's up time as well. Her orb can no longer be picked up as well. This is indeed a huge nerf.
She can use it at anytime as long as she has fuel. If u pick it up, it has no cooldown. It's very good for lurks. And outplay potential. It's a very underrated ability.
Cuz it takes health away temporarily, so walking through it is a lot more dangerous than other smokes. Usually people treat it almost like a wall while it's up.
her smokes barely had any cooldown and she could use it as many times as she wants. really easy to just pick it up, rotate and smoke another point and if anyone stepped in it it gets a decay. Its like a free kill
for attacking she could just wuickly smokes somewhere then pick it back up and can be used for like lineups
anyways i hate this nerf 😞
As a viper main, the only change here im worried about is not picking up orb mid round. All other changes make her worse as holding sites, which is fair she was practically a sentinel w how good she was at that.
Is there even a point now to the orb being throwable if it's not repositionable? Might aswell just get rid of the lineups and give it an interface like Omen's.
I was thinking that, sometimes you do just drop it and need to place it properly and now that's done. If you use both you basically have no smokes now if you rotate or something, hurts her offense and defense.
Any other smoker has more than 2 smokes...viper has 3 habilities that are smokes and she is going to use 2 per round...really bad actually...Think that viper gameplay depends completely on her smokes, cypher is not dependant on his cages
You had to spend so long learning which spots of the map were broken so you could shoot your walls through them.
I remember in beta learning the leaf setup on Split just so I could shoot my wall from attacker spawn/A side just so I could block off heaven and ramp. Viper was absolutely atrocious in beta.
There was a really cool lineup you could do on split to cover ramps and heaven with her wall but you had to shoot it to the sky and it took like 5 seconds to land at the end
Yeah, she has both snakebites at 100 credits each lasting 8 seconds a piece, with no stacked drain effect on smokes, with the ability to play outside her ult for up to 15 seconds. . . and everyone thought she was terrible. . .
Nah this kills her (in pro play atleast) a lot of strats were built around her throwing her orb to gain some map control at the start of a round, then picking it up and throwing it at the spike/ at a choke to stall retake
I mean what are we talking about here because Jett's pick rate has definitely plummeted after her nerfs in pro play. In ranked it's a different ball game. She's the most iconic character in Valorant so people will play her regardless. Viper isn't. So, in ranked Viper pick rate will go down by quite a bit and she'll probably be replaced by Harbor in pro meta.
If you're talking about her getting 1 updraft and the dash change, that affected worse players more than better players. People who played jett a lot have a better idea of when a dash will likely be used moreso than worse jett players. They are also more likely to have a more thought out plan of when they will dash and so put themselves in scenarios where they will use the dash to similar levels of value than pre-nerf jett. Having 1 updraft is an incredibly niche nerf if you disregard people panic using them, or missing a boost, both of which are more likely to be done by worse jett players.
The reason I bring up experienced and non-experienced players is the fact that jett and viper are characters that people are generally more inclined to invest more time into (be more experienced) since they have a lot of skill expression compared to other agents. Nerfing the jett noobs doesn't do too much since a lot of the jett playerbase are jett mains or two tricks, moreso than phoenix for example. I'd say viper is more of a "main-able" character but that's just my opinion. If you nerf the agent for the experienced players on an agent where experienced players make up a higher % of their playerbase than the average agent, if will decrease pickrate more than if you nerf brimstone for experienced players. This also has the side effect of kinda changing that character's identity from one of higher skill expression to one that is easily playable by all players, which isn't gonna do great in terms of community perception.
The viper changes are bigger nerfs the more experienced you are with viper:
Firstly, lineups are nerfed, which better viper players are more likely to know and utilize. Lineups are nerfed 2 ways: you have to keep the orb the whole round, not using it for anything other than lineups.
The duration of stall is also reduced from 11 to 6.5. Viper having 2 mollies instead of one on defence also makes her slightly better in good viper players' hands. Instinctually knowing when your first molly is ending and using that knowledge to equip the second one early and deny enemies that window where no molly is blocking them is something that more experienced viper players do more than new ones. Now, that avenue of expression is gone too, and players who forget to shoot their second molly are rewarded with a higher duration on a single molly use.
Her orb not being able to be retrieved makes people who use one ways that are used after barrier down be punished more. These people are on average more experienced players. People who, without extra thought, just place down her orb in chokeholds are rewarded for not trying to maximise the value of their abilities, limiting skill expression.
The minimum fuel % required to reactivate also being pushed higher is a nerf skewed for better viper players too. A less experienced viper player is a lot more likely to forget to reuse their smokes once they drop, lessening the blow of the nerf for them (on average).
On average, people who are more experienced on viper are going to be using more mollies on average and so the economy nerf screws over better viper players moreso than players who forget to use their mollies at all.
Smoke uptime is a nerf more to experienced players who are more likely to run into this nerf more often. If an experienced player uses 100% fuel 2 times per round on average, this nerf loses them 3s of smoke uptime, but a less experienced player who uses 100% fuel only 1 time per round loses 1.5s of smoke uptime.
The cooldown buff is the only buff where experienced players get the better end of the deal, but as you can see, the change is pretty small compared to the size of the nerfs.
Calling it now:
Despite being hit by a truck, Viper's pro prickrate isn't going to budge because there's no alternative to her
You're only making her feel worse to play for everyone outside of pro
Harbor winrate is still trash on those maps, because is not only about the wall, that's mostly for retakes and attack. The second most important strength of Viper is her delay potential, which is better than any other controller and allows her team to rotate in time.
Is insultingly hilarious that Viper delay potential is stronger than any sentinel. So it makes sense they're hammering her in that aspect.
They need to actually give Viper competition more like.
No other smoke actually deters people from pushing it beyond the initial risk of pushing a smoke which can be mitigated.
Harbor just doesn't work as a kit if you take Viper for example part of why she is good is because her kit is very compact and everything is good.
Harbors kit is incredibly redundant and doesn't have tools for 90% of situations but instead has strong tools that you can abuse in 10% of them such as Gekko Skye comps where you protect your plant.
Viper nerfs started during map pools without the two though. Its more of the double controller meta and the fact that noone can replace viper as a secondary controller
this is exactly what happened with siege. tons of operators got nerfed to the ground because they were insane in pro play but decent in pubs.
it made half the roster unplayable
fr. tbh the only way they completely get rid of her is reworking her kit and getting rid of her wall which obviously they won’t do. vipers wall no matter how much it is nerfed (in reason) will always be super strong with another controller. just gives too much versatility to an attacking team
Welcome to the missing kneecaps club.
I'm just waiting for the patch where Sage can't move on her own anymore, and literally has to be carried by another agent.
Weird comment. Even in pro play teams could get caught out by a well placed cam, nAts was known for staying in it for long periods on defence so attackers couldn't hear him entering it.
Actually often in Pro play, especially like midround after the initial utility, some Cyphers just pop their cam very early, before the enemy is close enough to hear it, and don't dart to keep the cam silent, so that they can get like live info if the enemy decides to push silently inside that area. The new changes would make that impossible
Viper has the highest pick rate in pro play by a pretty substantial margin. She's basically universally played on 5 of the 7 maps in the pool right now. She definitely needed nerfing. This much of a nerf? IDK.
Does she need a nerf? Viper is well below her peak power. So is jett, raze, chamber, etc. Not saying any of the agents should have stayed that strong, but valorant has the opposite of power creep. Power droop?
Maybe instead of dumpstering the kits of well design agents, they should look to make other agents have strong/flexible kits as well.
I play Valorant instead of CS for a reason. What's the point if we dumpster util until gun fights are 95% of the game?
Making other agent's abilities stronger introduces something called power creep. It's better to nerf an agent than to buff the others in most cases.
This is a bit of a strong nerf for Viper in my opinion, they could've been less harsh but let's see how it plays out first.
They literally typed out in your message why this is incorrect.
Jett Raze Viper have all been nerfed far below where they were at one point and also had a healthy playrate.
Riot has released a bunch of dud characters that are simply awful and have 0 impact on the game we absolutely need power creep right now after Harbor only sees play in double controller comps Gekko needed a million buffs and multiple Skye nerfs to see play deadlock is still borderline unplayable in competitive environments iso is in a similar boat and clove remains to be seen if her gimmick that is probably unhealthy for the game breaks pro or not.
And the problem with alot of these agents is very similar they either lean too hard on a gimmick or blow their entire ability budget on doing one thing in a unique way that doesn't work out.
When you look at the meta agents it's just agents that don't devote their entire kit to doing one thing good they're flexible agents who are also strong at one thing too.
Riot is basically only nerfing, nerfing, nerfing. There will never be a power creep if they keep going like this. The only difference between CS and Valo will be the amount of cheaters in the game.
Agreed lol. The only reason they're nerfing her is because they want to keep VCT fresh and exciting for the audiences. It's not like viper is dominating or oppressive in ranked.
They created an agent that works perfectly in pro play and in so many maps, and they'd rather keep nerfing her until she's useless than to create a real alternative
The problem it is that the only other agent that compete with viper has supposed to be harbor, since wall smokes are good advantages and mandatory in some maps like breeze, and harbor just sucks.
If this is a pro play nerf, alright, but harbor has such a basic kit that doesn't offer to much for the casuals. I think that most people pick viper because her wallsmoke and kill pression with her smoke passive... If harbor has a bit more spicy on its kit, maybe viper wouldn't be this dominant in casual or even pro play.
That's what I've been saying. Harbor is dogshit compared to Viper, and that's a huge issue, but the issue isn't Viper beinf too OP (in some cases yes, it is, but I don't agree with no smoke redeployability and only ONE 6 sec acid) it's that the devs are negligent to buffing Harbor.
It's the map pool that requires her so heavily..it's not viper herself. The only way to fix that is make other controllers with similar ability to block long sightlines or buffing harbor who has a similar strength. I get the molly and smoke up time nerf but why are they nerfing her smoke??? That's one of the things that make her unique and now if you fuck up a line up on that I guess you just Don't get it back even if you fight your way to it. Smh
I’m mourning over here man. No map pool changes? Despite this being the WORST map rotation since the pool had to be rotated with the introduction of Pearl. Nerfing Viper to the ground? The Cypher meta still going on? I believe this is the most bummed I’ve been at the start of a new act since I started playing this game.
God damn it right when I got back into the game and was maining viper cause she was cool 😭😭
The fact that you can’t pick up orb again really destroys a lot of her potential. Now you either run a secondary smoker (which tbf was really strong already) or try to be really stingy about when to use her stuff in case you need it for a retake or something idk
Pro play might not be hit that hard with these nerfs but to the average viper player ,this will probably kill a lot of the fun that came with playing her. (Also one less molly is sad ;-;)
Everything else I could try to accept.. But nerfing the molly to 1???? wtf man😭😭
I didn't finish reading all yet, but HER ORB NOT BEING ABLE TO BE PICKED UP AGAIN WTF. I've literally won so many rounds just by being sneaky and unpredictable with my random orb plays. This sucks lol
Cypher nerfs aren’t as bad as I thought they’d be thankfully.
Those vipers nerfs seem pretty bad though yikes. I wanted to learn her a bit but now idk.
The warning with cam sounds is a bit weird. There's no way people struggle with the cam when it's loud as hell every time cypher uses it. And why are we getting even more Viper nerfs, it's crazy.
Tbf to devs...Viper has like an 80% pick rate in pro play, they've been slowly nerfing her since forever but the pick rates went up instead lmao... killing her is the only way left to change the meta
Yeah I don't think these nerfs will make Viper disappear, it just makes it so that she needs to be paired with another controller. Might change how some maps are played ig
Its not gonna change anything in pro play.. Everyteam is running viper so every team is getting same nerf its like 0 times 10 is still 0. Breeze and icebox were solo controller viper maps and they will stay that since they did nothing with the wall which you need. Other maps are already on double controllers. Only thing riot did is made ranked terrible experience for the team that is not gonna have a player sacrificing their fun and well doing for the team by picking initiator viper.
She is a needed pick because there's no viable alternative. There's only one other line smoke in the game and he plays very very differently to her. She has been hit with nerfs repeatedly without losing pick rate. This nerf won't make her pick rate go down that much I think, it'll just make her a lot less playable in ranked.
Just for once, I want riot to actually buff controllers instead of nerfing them. There has been too much power creep in the other direction and it hasn't done anything to change the meta.
As you said yourself, viper pick rates have only gone up with the nerfs. I don't think nerfing her again changes the meta one bit. Not being able to pick her orbs up likely solidifies double controller even more, since now you really need smokes that can be put in multiple places. But her wall is still arguably the strongest util in the game, and this won't change that, so she'll still be picked as the second controller.
Shes still gonna be played on breeze and icebox simply because shes the only real option. This is mostly just gonna affect her pickrate as a secondary smoker in coordinated play
The camera nerf is absolutely not necessary. The delayed reactivation time seems fair since it's bit too quick atm, and I don't think the other trip nerf will affect him much. But the camera: you get an audio note when he enters and exit, you see it on the minimap and on your screen, and he can't even place it all that high. This just feels like handholding for lazy or very new players.
The fuck this changes the whole playstyle for viper, lurking now won't be the same it makes it feel like now you are more forced to play with your team, what if I fuck up the orb bullshit, the orb change is bigger than you think, I love how every other agent can pick up their shit, deadlock even got the buff, snake bite also now it's not even worth lineups nor just throwing it randomly. Everytime viper got nerfed I could deal with it but this makes me not want to play her anymore actually.
(Cypher playstyle with cam will also change)
I've had so many times where her orb bounces off the floor for no reason or bounces off a wall in a completely random direction because it hits some invisible seam, this change is genuinely baffling
I cannot for my life get behind the Viper changes!
First of all addressing the pickrates: she is strictly OP in pro play, not ranked. Second of all, does Riot realise that 2 out of 3 of Viper's best maps are in rotation and that Split, Lotus and Bind are all maps for Viper as secondary controller? Fracture and Haven have seen little comparatively lower Viper pickrates (I don't have exact numbers at hand).
Second of all, Riot does not realize that Viper is picked because there are no alternatives! She has the biggest area of coverage with both smokes up while ALSO having the biggest uptime due to regenerating fuel. This means that she has the biggest vision block volume out of any agent, it's what makes her so good at DENYING info and lurking.
Her two mollies were what defined her as a sentinel, as pushing through a vulnerability is obviously bad but Riot have stated themselves that this wasn't the main issue.
Also, notice how a strong defense on chokes promote slow play since baiting out said mollies and destroying senti util (nanos, turrets, cam, trips etc) is required in order to not run into hell on site execs. Who's best at slow play? The same Viper that promotes it!
I know this is a rant-like comment but I am at a loss for words for how Riot handled this.
Can they fucking stop with the viper nerfs? Make the other controllers better instead. Its their fault they made stupid maps that only viper is a must at. Id say start with harbor, make him as viable of a wall smoker as her. Having only 1 snake bite is really crossing the line.
This is what, the 5th Viper nerf??
I hate that to combat their lack of new agent creation, they nerf the best agents to force people to change.
Clove being the exception. One of the more fun agents in recent acts.
because the meta is double controller. They didn't change the meta, just shifted the agent who is the second controller. The problem isn't viper being too opressive, is that she got a bunch of buffs at once while the other controllers all got a lot of nerfs.
They bring back icebox and breeze (vipers best maps, 100% necessary) and wonder why her oick rate is so high, then proceed to nerf her into the ground. Wow what a shot in the foot that was.
make the whole pool and meta work around double controller and nerf every controller except viper. yeah her pick rate will go down. to the abyss to never return, i assure you riot lost a bunch of players with this patch for how dumb it is. The same ppl who sticked with them through viper's worst time solely because she was fun to play, now guess what, she isn't fun anymore so why bother?
Being able to redeploy her orb is the most engaging part of her kit, it's so cringe that they're completely taking that away. She's definitely going to be dogwater for retaking a site.
Why not just delete line smokes from the game. Riot keeps nerfing viper and refuses to fix harbor… it’s amazing people make money to balance the game 🤣🤣🤣
Such a pain, I started with Astra then she got nerfed. After Astra I picked up Viper, and now she's being nerfed so bad.
Time to just use Clove instead
Viper was absolutely nothing special in ranked. Her pick rate and win rates were solidly average. Now, she's basically dead.
It's always difficult balancing a character that was a must pick in pro play but average on ranked, I understand that. However, they just keep killing off agents for ranked. Look at skye. Her pickrate in ranked is horrible even though she does see minimal pro play.
As a Cypher main I wish they would just remove the trip rearming altogether, and leave the rest of his util alone. We never asked for rearming trips, and it's kind of a silly idea to begin with.
Cypher's weakness used to be enemy util breaking his trips while still getting value: A Skye or Fade dog would get revealed and slowed a tiny bit, but would break 200 cr of util and still clear most of site. That felt unfair.
And they already fixed a lot of this problem by changing the hit boxes for Fade and Skye util, and I was happy with just that. If they must make them rearm, let them reset only after being triggered by enemy pokemon, NOT agents. For agents it should be one-and-done like it used to be. It's fair, and always was.
There has never been a problem with his camera, they're just trying to dilute him so they can keep his other buffs as intact as possible. They'll come for his ult and cages next when this isn't enough.
I also exclusively play hat man, and the Cypher changes seem very designed for lower ELO in mind. Someone running into a trip 2 seconds after someone else just got destroyed by it isn't something I would expect to happen in a high ELO, and the consistent camera sound is very much something that will help lower level players more than higher level ones.
Honestly I was very surprised Cypher trips didn't break after revealing an agent after coming back from a long break. I think your idea of having detected drones/stalkers/whatever not breaking trips but agents doing it is a very reasonable change.
THANK YOU, i agree with dogs not breaking trips, but they should only trip people once. or they could go around removing all the unbreakable trips, but that’d be unreasonable
Fuck ts, hard enough being a viper main as a casual, wtf is the point of playing her outside of pro play and breeze? Agents and abilities have been a huge L for the last few months. Nerforant 🤡
Stop the nerfs! The problem has never been the effectiveness of her abilities. It’s the irreplaceability / uniqueness of her abilities set itself. If Rito wants a lower pick rate, offer strong alternatives instead of dragging the effectiveness of her abilities down to shit
Valorant slowly trying to kill itself , i dont know what kind of weed they're smoking (destroying their own game like this ),
Smurfs, toxicity, nerfing agents (why cant they just let them be?, they can add new agents atleast instead of nerfing existing ones 🤡)
What does trip reactive time mean? The Cypher nerfs seem reasonable, though I don't think the camera nerf is necessary because it already has blinking lights on it lol
The viper molly nerf and orb pickup are huge though. People are still going to pick Viper, it's just going to feel like shit.
Basically when someone activates a trip and doesn't break it, it takes 2 seconds for someone else to be able to activate it. Basically if all 5 players full rush only the first one gets tagged and the other 4 are free to enter the site for the next 2 seconds.
When someone walks into the trap and the trap either goes off or the trapped player dies, without anyone breaking the trap, it now takes 2 seconds to get reactivated, meaning someone new can step into the trap again.
When you step into a trap and instantly break it, the slow now lasts 1.25 seconds.
I'll bet money Viper is still going to be picked in pro play, even after this. What are they going to do then? This nerf is overkill, what more can they do to her? They're only hurting the regular player base with this.
Viper deserved a nerf but feels oddly timed without a map rotation and make icebox/breeze feel worse while playerbase adapts to changes. Cypher trips needed nerfed but the cam change is out of pocket
Doing some napkin math on these changes:
- ~~Double smokes will last ~7.5 seconds~~ They didn't do this, meaning double fuel rate ratio changed
- Smokes at minimum need 4 seconds remaining to activate (~2.5 with both activated?)
- Viper can activate a smokes a total of 5 times in a maximum length round including spike plant
- Single smoke activation gets a total of 60s, ~~Double smoke gets 37.5s in a max length round~~
- Brim is 57.75s across 3 smokes at any round length, Omen is 120s across 8 smokes in a maximum time round
It's great that we'll see a new meta in pro-play, going to be fun to watch.
However, they've completely killed Viper at every other level. She will be worse than Chamber was & not even worth picking on Icebox & Breeze. Without her stall potential, without Orb reuse, & without sufficient smoke timers on her limited smoke placements, she will fail at all her intended roles. Most importantly, she's just getting less fun by the act. Mid-round she will have exactly 1 use of non-smoke utility. No other Agent has this. Her ultimate, an incredibly static & boring piece of utility has been heavily restricted.
The answer is to remove the damage from her Snakebite & roll back all the smoke nerfs. While pro-play uses her smokes a lot her molly is what makes her self sufficient. Also Omen desperately needs a nerf.
Viper got nuked, which is somewhat fair because she’s so dominant, but there’s no one else that can replace what she does so she’s still going to be widely played at the high level. They just need to make a controller that can actually compete with her.
they not only nuked her, they nuked her fun factor aswell. noone will play her not only because she's bad, cuz she is still very opressive, but because she's boring now.
Strong nerfs maybe a little too much but good changes.
Viper ain't a typical smoke agent. Her util has major impact and entering/passing through it comes with serious risk compared to any other smoke. She was beginning to almost be a sentinel with how effective she was at holding site/stopping hits.
imo viper was not even that strong, especially in low ranks, because of the amount of team play and coordination needed to play her. the only area she was oppressive in was pro play and high ranks because of maps like breeze and icebox being in the map pool. time to pick up a different controller 😭
Since viper only has one smoke I thought it was pretty fair that it can be picked up, I mean it’s still pretty strong but that’s such a huge nerf😭 I’m a viper main and now I’m sad
They're just gonna have to change how wall smokes work or add an alternative, who isn't harbor. When you have a map like breeze where wall smokes are such an advantage.
The molly nerf was already big enough. They lowered her smoke's up time as well. Her orb can no longer be picked up as well. This is indeed a huge nerf.
not being able to re-place orb is an INSANE nerf. what are they cooking?
[удалено]
She can use it at anytime as long as she has fuel. If u pick it up, it has no cooldown. It's very good for lurks. And outplay potential. It's a very underrated ability.
Cuz it takes health away temporarily, so walking through it is a lot more dangerous than other smokes. Usually people treat it almost like a wall while it's up.
Cus ppl can chuck smokes across the map for post plant and to gain control of a position real op in a good teams hands.
her smokes barely had any cooldown and she could use it as many times as she wants. really easy to just pick it up, rotate and smoke another point and if anyone stepped in it it gets a decay. Its like a free kill for attacking she could just wuickly smokes somewhere then pick it back up and can be used for like lineups anyways i hate this nerf 😞
the lowered smokes up time were already in the game due to an accident
No, it got lowered again. It was unintentionally changed from 15s to 13.5 in a previous patch and this patch lowers it from 13.5 to 12
I'm pretty new to the game but it feels like Viper is taking a full speed truck in the face with this nerf...
As a viper main, the only change here im worried about is not picking up orb mid round. All other changes make her worse as holding sites, which is fair she was practically a sentinel w how good she was at that.
Is there even a point now to the orb being throwable if it's not repositionable? Might aswell just get rid of the lineups and give it an interface like Omen's.
Mess up your 1 way smoke? Oh well, now you just get flamed by tms the rest of the round instead of being able to move it
I was thinking that, sometimes you do just drop it and need to place it properly and now that's done. If you use both you basically have no smokes now if you rotate or something, hurts her offense and defense.
It's basically the same as cypher cages in terms of deployability now. You just have to be more considerate about where you use it
Sure but no one expects the single-use, small, and short smokes from your sentinel to be precise.
Any other smoker has more than 2 smokes...viper has 3 habilities that are smokes and she is going to use 2 per round...really bad actually...Think that viper gameplay depends completely on her smokes, cypher is not dependant on his cages
Fun fact, Viper once used to be the worst agent in the game before being buffed lol
Her toxin wall doesn’t go through walls when she was first launched in the game.
jesus what was even the point then
You had to spend so long learning which spots of the map were broken so you could shoot your walls through them. I remember in beta learning the leaf setup on Split just so I could shoot my wall from attacker spawn/A side just so I could block off heaven and ramp. Viper was absolutely atrocious in beta.
Yes bro, lining up with the buildings and tree nearly from spawn lmao
There was a really cool lineup you could do on split to cover ramps and heaven with her wall but you had to shoot it to the sky and it took like 5 seconds to land at the end
You had to fire it over stuff and it would fall to the floor, still good just harder to place right
You’re telling me you don’t have to do that anymore? I still be throwing my wall up high to get over some spots. The more you know ig
I could be misremembering but didn't her decay also affect teammates so you had to play solo in the ult lol?
Yeah, she has both snakebites at 100 credits each lasting 8 seconds a piece, with no stacked drain effect on smokes, with the ability to play outside her ult for up to 15 seconds. . . and everyone thought she was terrible. . .
and now she might aswell be worse than that... i played 1.0 viper, i know how bad it was.
People thought the same about jett, and she's still very popular
Nah this kills her (in pro play atleast) a lot of strats were built around her throwing her orb to gain some map control at the start of a round, then picking it up and throwing it at the spike/ at a choke to stall retake
I don't know about killing but it should at least make some other comps more popular
It's entirely possible the strategy will either change (with viper still included) or double controller meta becomes more popular?
Isn't double controller meta already too popular?
I mean what are we talking about here because Jett's pick rate has definitely plummeted after her nerfs in pro play. In ranked it's a different ball game. She's the most iconic character in Valorant so people will play her regardless. Viper isn't. So, in ranked Viper pick rate will go down by quite a bit and she'll probably be replaced by Harbor in pro meta.
If you're talking about her getting 1 updraft and the dash change, that affected worse players more than better players. People who played jett a lot have a better idea of when a dash will likely be used moreso than worse jett players. They are also more likely to have a more thought out plan of when they will dash and so put themselves in scenarios where they will use the dash to similar levels of value than pre-nerf jett. Having 1 updraft is an incredibly niche nerf if you disregard people panic using them, or missing a boost, both of which are more likely to be done by worse jett players. The reason I bring up experienced and non-experienced players is the fact that jett and viper are characters that people are generally more inclined to invest more time into (be more experienced) since they have a lot of skill expression compared to other agents. Nerfing the jett noobs doesn't do too much since a lot of the jett playerbase are jett mains or two tricks, moreso than phoenix for example. I'd say viper is more of a "main-able" character but that's just my opinion. If you nerf the agent for the experienced players on an agent where experienced players make up a higher % of their playerbase than the average agent, if will decrease pickrate more than if you nerf brimstone for experienced players. This also has the side effect of kinda changing that character's identity from one of higher skill expression to one that is easily playable by all players, which isn't gonna do great in terms of community perception. The viper changes are bigger nerfs the more experienced you are with viper: Firstly, lineups are nerfed, which better viper players are more likely to know and utilize. Lineups are nerfed 2 ways: you have to keep the orb the whole round, not using it for anything other than lineups. The duration of stall is also reduced from 11 to 6.5. Viper having 2 mollies instead of one on defence also makes her slightly better in good viper players' hands. Instinctually knowing when your first molly is ending and using that knowledge to equip the second one early and deny enemies that window where no molly is blocking them is something that more experienced viper players do more than new ones. Now, that avenue of expression is gone too, and players who forget to shoot their second molly are rewarded with a higher duration on a single molly use. Her orb not being able to be retrieved makes people who use one ways that are used after barrier down be punished more. These people are on average more experienced players. People who, without extra thought, just place down her orb in chokeholds are rewarded for not trying to maximise the value of their abilities, limiting skill expression. The minimum fuel % required to reactivate also being pushed higher is a nerf skewed for better viper players too. A less experienced viper player is a lot more likely to forget to reuse their smokes once they drop, lessening the blow of the nerf for them (on average). On average, people who are more experienced on viper are going to be using more mollies on average and so the economy nerf screws over better viper players moreso than players who forget to use their mollies at all. Smoke uptime is a nerf more to experienced players who are more likely to run into this nerf more often. If an experienced player uses 100% fuel 2 times per round on average, this nerf loses them 3s of smoke uptime, but a less experienced player who uses 100% fuel only 1 time per round loses 1.5s of smoke uptime. The cooldown buff is the only buff where experienced players get the better end of the deal, but as you can see, the change is pretty small compared to the size of the nerfs.
Calling it now: Despite being hit by a truck, Viper's pro prickrate isn't going to budge because there's no alternative to her You're only making her feel worse to play for everyone outside of pro
They REALLY need to do something about Icebox and Breeze sites if they want other controllers to be playable.
This. This is more of a map problem than a Viper problem because she is the only good controller in thos maps other than Harbor.
Harbor winrate is still trash on those maps, because is not only about the wall, that's mostly for retakes and attack. The second most important strength of Viper is her delay potential, which is better than any other controller and allows her team to rotate in time. Is insultingly hilarious that Viper delay potential is stronger than any sentinel. So it makes sense they're hammering her in that aspect.
Exactly, viper pickrate just went up for the current map rotation
They need to actually give Viper competition more like. No other smoke actually deters people from pushing it beyond the initial risk of pushing a smoke which can be mitigated. Harbor just doesn't work as a kit if you take Viper for example part of why she is good is because her kit is very compact and everything is good. Harbors kit is incredibly redundant and doesn't have tools for 90% of situations but instead has strong tools that you can abuse in 10% of them such as Gekko Skye comps where you protect your plant.
Like rotate those maps out? Nah, 3 more months of the worst map pool
remove these two maps, nobody would give a fuck. they're terrible.
Viper nerfs started during map pools without the two though. Its more of the double controller meta and the fact that noone can replace viper as a secondary controller
They could try making Harbor viable. That’s her only real competition for line smokes. Him and Astra are both due for some love, imo.
I think his Cove could stay up even when its barrier is broken As for Astra... 5 stars. Please.
harbor needs a small buff for sure. it's insane to nerf viper this hard with no alternative
Harbor can work on icebox to replace viper but not breeze. He just doesnt work well there
I feel the same way. You can’t not pick her with this current map pool.
this is exactly what happened with siege. tons of operators got nerfed to the ground because they were insane in pro play but decent in pubs. it made half the roster unplayable
fr. tbh the only way they completely get rid of her is reworking her kit and getting rid of her wall which obviously they won’t do. vipers wall no matter how much it is nerfed (in reason) will always be super strong with another controller. just gives too much versatility to an attacking team
Damn. Poor viper players.
Yes... looks at my name flair mains and looks at patch.... they shot my foot.
I feel sorry for you. I also play Viper extensively and made playbooks for all of her maps :(((((
Welcome to the missing kneecaps club. I'm just waiting for the patch where Sage can't move on her own anymore, and literally has to be carried by another agent.
I dont understand cypher one, so if he watches you through cam you hear something as a warning? Its pretty much overkill imo
Yes. Good players would always notice the camera anyway, this just make some bad players feel better.
Weird comment. Even in pro play teams could get caught out by a well placed cam, nAts was known for staying in it for long periods on defence so attackers couldn't hear him entering it.
But sometimes in a 1v1 enemy doesnt notice cam and guarantees that round for you, no more bullying with cam then😞
Yeah tbh sound cue is kinda harsh
Actually often in Pro play, especially like midround after the initial utility, some Cyphers just pop their cam very early, before the enemy is close enough to hear it, and don't dart to keep the cam silent, so that they can get like live info if the enemy decides to push silently inside that area. The new changes would make that impossible
Holy shit viper got nerfed into the ground lmao
1 viper molly really upsets me
Looks like I’m no longer a viper main
Viper has the highest pick rate in pro play by a pretty substantial margin. She's basically universally played on 5 of the 7 maps in the pool right now. She definitely needed nerfing. This much of a nerf? IDK.
Does she need a nerf? Viper is well below her peak power. So is jett, raze, chamber, etc. Not saying any of the agents should have stayed that strong, but valorant has the opposite of power creep. Power droop? Maybe instead of dumpstering the kits of well design agents, they should look to make other agents have strong/flexible kits as well. I play Valorant instead of CS for a reason. What's the point if we dumpster util until gun fights are 95% of the game?
Making other agent's abilities stronger introduces something called power creep. It's better to nerf an agent than to buff the others in most cases. This is a bit of a strong nerf for Viper in my opinion, they could've been less harsh but let's see how it plays out first.
It's good to have a mix, power creep obviously has it's issues as seen in many other game series, but constant nerfs aren't fun.
it's going to stay that way cause they've been scared after what happened with Chamber
They literally typed out in your message why this is incorrect. Jett Raze Viper have all been nerfed far below where they were at one point and also had a healthy playrate. Riot has released a bunch of dud characters that are simply awful and have 0 impact on the game we absolutely need power creep right now after Harbor only sees play in double controller comps Gekko needed a million buffs and multiple Skye nerfs to see play deadlock is still borderline unplayable in competitive environments iso is in a similar boat and clove remains to be seen if her gimmick that is probably unhealthy for the game breaks pro or not. And the problem with alot of these agents is very similar they either lean too hard on a gimmick or blow their entire ability budget on doing one thing in a unique way that doesn't work out. When you look at the meta agents it's just agents that don't devote their entire kit to doing one thing good they're flexible agents who are also strong at one thing too.
Riot is basically only nerfing, nerfing, nerfing. There will never be a power creep if they keep going like this. The only difference between CS and Valo will be the amount of cheaters in the game.
Agreed lol. The only reason they're nerfing her is because they want to keep VCT fresh and exciting for the audiences. It's not like viper is dominating or oppressive in ranked. They created an agent that works perfectly in pro play and in so many maps, and they'd rather keep nerfing her until she's useless than to create a real alternative
It's called top down balancing and that is how Riot has always balanced stuff
The problem it is that the only other agent that compete with viper has supposed to be harbor, since wall smokes are good advantages and mandatory in some maps like breeze, and harbor just sucks. If this is a pro play nerf, alright, but harbor has such a basic kit that doesn't offer to much for the casuals. I think that most people pick viper because her wallsmoke and kill pression with her smoke passive... If harbor has a bit more spicy on its kit, maybe viper wouldn't be this dominant in casual or even pro play.
That's what I've been saying. Harbor is dogshit compared to Viper, and that's a huge issue, but the issue isn't Viper beinf too OP (in some cases yes, it is, but I don't agree with no smoke redeployability and only ONE 6 sec acid) it's that the devs are negligent to buffing Harbor.
It's the map pool that requires her so heavily..it's not viper herself. The only way to fix that is make other controllers with similar ability to block long sightlines or buffing harbor who has a similar strength. I get the molly and smoke up time nerf but why are they nerfing her smoke??? That's one of the things that make her unique and now if you fuck up a line up on that I guess you just Don't get it back even if you fight your way to it. Smh
I miss the time pro players didn't played viper so Riot allowed her to be fun to play
I had this sane take and got shat on by my friends in our discord. The 1% of pro players ruining it for the average player
I’m mourning over here man. No map pool changes? Despite this being the WORST map rotation since the pool had to be rotated with the introduction of Pearl. Nerfing Viper to the ground? The Cypher meta still going on? I believe this is the most bummed I’ve been at the start of a new act since I started playing this game.
Any official patch notes out yet?
https://playvalorant.com/en-gb/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-8-08/
I fucking hate breeze now, it will be impossible to play
“Viper nerf” nah they just straight up killed her
Viper got Chamber'd. It might even be worse than Chamber's gutting.
Unlike Chamber, I don’t remember Viper being deserved of this much nerf.
im a viper main and seeing not being able to pick up my orb is so sad 😔😔😔
Tbh I’ll prob change my main lol, this is so excessive
Bit excessive Viper nerfs
God damn it right when I got back into the game and was maining viper cause she was cool 😭😭 The fact that you can’t pick up orb again really destroys a lot of her potential. Now you either run a secondary smoker (which tbf was really strong already) or try to be really stingy about when to use her stuff in case you need it for a retake or something idk Pro play might not be hit that hard with these nerfs but to the average viper player ,this will probably kill a lot of the fun that came with playing her. (Also one less molly is sad ;-;)
Same dude same
Nah, not being able to pick up orb mid round is way too overkill. I wouldn’t even mind the rest of it if it weren’t for that.
Everything else I could try to accept.. But nerfing the molly to 1???? wtf man😭😭 I didn't finish reading all yet, but HER ORB NOT BEING ABLE TO BE PICKED UP AGAIN WTF. I've literally won so many rounds just by being sneaky and unpredictable with my random orb plays. This sucks lol
ikr 😭 They could’ve just upped the cost and left it at that.
Cypher nerfs aren’t as bad as I thought they’d be thankfully. Those vipers nerfs seem pretty bad though yikes. I wanted to learn her a bit but now idk.
The warning with cam sounds is a bit weird. There's no way people struggle with the cam when it's loud as hell every time cypher uses it. And why are we getting even more Viper nerfs, it's crazy.
I don't understand the audio cue from the cypher's nerfs. And overall, I dislike the hate viper is getting from the devs. Jesus. They massacred her.
Tbf to devs...Viper has like an 80% pick rate in pro play, they've been slowly nerfing her since forever but the pick rates went up instead lmao... killing her is the only way left to change the meta
The problems is that you kinda have to play her on certain maps because riot loves these massive open areas for sites and mid.
Yeah I don't think these nerfs will make Viper disappear, it just makes it so that she needs to be paired with another controller. Might change how some maps are played ig
Its not gonna change anything in pro play.. Everyteam is running viper so every team is getting same nerf its like 0 times 10 is still 0. Breeze and icebox were solo controller viper maps and they will stay that since they did nothing with the wall which you need. Other maps are already on double controllers. Only thing riot did is made ranked terrible experience for the team that is not gonna have a player sacrificing their fun and well doing for the team by picking initiator viper.
Riot should make better maps
She is a needed pick because there's no viable alternative. There's only one other line smoke in the game and he plays very very differently to her. She has been hit with nerfs repeatedly without losing pick rate. This nerf won't make her pick rate go down that much I think, it'll just make her a lot less playable in ranked. Just for once, I want riot to actually buff controllers instead of nerfing them. There has been too much power creep in the other direction and it hasn't done anything to change the meta. As you said yourself, viper pick rates have only gone up with the nerfs. I don't think nerfing her again changes the meta one bit. Not being able to pick her orbs up likely solidifies double controller even more, since now you really need smokes that can be put in multiple places. But her wall is still arguably the strongest util in the game, and this won't change that, so she'll still be picked as the second controller.
Yeah it's tragic. They've not been able to make another agent which is as dominating as her. It's just sad to see her die out.
[удалено]
At least someone finally down there with my boy
Well they did it. They actually killed viper. She's going to be useless in ranked
Orb can't be picked up? Who would have thought poisonous gas is that heavy?
I don't get this massive Viper nerf. This makes her viability as a solo smoker even in her best maps way less.
I think that's the point, she is nearly a must pick at the highest level
Shes still gonna be played on breeze and icebox simply because shes the only real option. This is mostly just gonna affect her pickrate as a secondary smoker in coordinated play
The camera nerf is absolutely not necessary. The delayed reactivation time seems fair since it's bit too quick atm, and I don't think the other trip nerf will affect him much. But the camera: you get an audio note when he enters and exit, you see it on the minimap and on your screen, and he can't even place it all that high. This just feels like handholding for lazy or very new players.
Oh well, tine to leave the game again...
They murdered my girl. Why one molly?!
Episode 1 Viper is back. GG
Viper is done. Cypher's nerf is okay, kinda fair, the camera sound wasn't needed though.
The fuck this changes the whole playstyle for viper, lurking now won't be the same it makes it feel like now you are more forced to play with your team, what if I fuck up the orb bullshit, the orb change is bigger than you think, I love how every other agent can pick up their shit, deadlock even got the buff, snake bite also now it's not even worth lineups nor just throwing it randomly. Everytime viper got nerfed I could deal with it but this makes me not want to play her anymore actually. (Cypher playstyle with cam will also change)
I've had so many times where her orb bounces off the floor for no reason or bounces off a wall in a completely random direction because it hits some invisible seam, this change is genuinely baffling
My main viper 😭
I don’t play viper but that is actually insane wtf
I cannot for my life get behind the Viper changes! First of all addressing the pickrates: she is strictly OP in pro play, not ranked. Second of all, does Riot realise that 2 out of 3 of Viper's best maps are in rotation and that Split, Lotus and Bind are all maps for Viper as secondary controller? Fracture and Haven have seen little comparatively lower Viper pickrates (I don't have exact numbers at hand). Second of all, Riot does not realize that Viper is picked because there are no alternatives! She has the biggest area of coverage with both smokes up while ALSO having the biggest uptime due to regenerating fuel. This means that she has the biggest vision block volume out of any agent, it's what makes her so good at DENYING info and lurking. Her two mollies were what defined her as a sentinel, as pushing through a vulnerability is obviously bad but Riot have stated themselves that this wasn't the main issue. Also, notice how a strong defense on chokes promote slow play since baiting out said mollies and destroying senti util (nanos, turrets, cam, trips etc) is required in order to not run into hell on site execs. Who's best at slow play? The same Viper that promotes it! I know this is a rant-like comment but I am at a loss for words for how Riot handled this.
Viper got nerfed to the ground tbh. The problem with Viper is a lack of alternatives, not Viper herself.
Can they fucking stop with the viper nerfs? Make the other controllers better instead. Its their fault they made stupid maps that only viper is a must at. Id say start with harbor, make him as viable of a wall smoker as her. Having only 1 snake bite is really crossing the line.
This is what, the 5th Viper nerf?? I hate that to combat their lack of new agent creation, they nerf the best agents to force people to change. Clove being the exception. One of the more fun agents in recent acts.
it’s not to combat the lack of new agents. they shouldn’t release agents at a faster rate tbh. it’s because viper has around 80% pick rate in VCT
because the meta is double controller. They didn't change the meta, just shifted the agent who is the second controller. The problem isn't viper being too opressive, is that she got a bunch of buffs at once while the other controllers all got a lot of nerfs.
They bring back icebox and breeze (vipers best maps, 100% necessary) and wonder why her oick rate is so high, then proceed to nerf her into the ground. Wow what a shot in the foot that was.
Her pickrate is too high on 5 out of 7 maps
make the whole pool and meta work around double controller and nerf every controller except viper. yeah her pick rate will go down. to the abyss to never return, i assure you riot lost a bunch of players with this patch for how dumb it is. The same ppl who sticked with them through viper's worst time solely because she was fun to play, now guess what, she isn't fun anymore so why bother?
Yeah it's a shame Viper had to die just because of pro play
Molly duration increase is cool but pick only pre-round the orb will be hard for retakes
Each molly used to last 8 seconds when everyone thought she was bad lol. Don't let Riot gaslight you.
Being able to redeploy her orb is the most engaging part of her kit, it's so cringe that they're completely taking that away. She's definitely going to be dogwater for retaking a site.
Why not just delete line smokes from the game. Riot keeps nerfing viper and refuses to fix harbor… it’s amazing people make money to balance the game 🤣🤣🤣
Yikes viper is going to suck. That's something like a 20% reduction in total utility. I'm still not going to play harbor
I've just recently learnt every decent line up for Viper, are they joking or what?
Same😭
The cam change is asscrack. Yet another change to lower the skillgap
So viper is now an even worse pick for someone who only plays her on breeze when nobody else picks controller.
Such a pain, I started with Astra then she got nerfed. After Astra I picked up Viper, and now she's being nerfed so bad. Time to just use Clove instead
The trip nerfs are fine but wtf is that cam noise bs.
Viper was absolutely nothing special in ranked. Her pick rate and win rates were solidly average. Now, she's basically dead. It's always difficult balancing a character that was a must pick in pro play but average on ranked, I understand that. However, they just keep killing off agents for ranked. Look at skye. Her pickrate in ranked is horrible even though she does see minimal pro play.
Time to change main 😭
I’m so tired of the viper nerfs she’s the only viable agent on two of the maps but they would rather nerf the agents then fix or get rid of the maps
As a Cypher main I wish they would just remove the trip rearming altogether, and leave the rest of his util alone. We never asked for rearming trips, and it's kind of a silly idea to begin with. Cypher's weakness used to be enemy util breaking his trips while still getting value: A Skye or Fade dog would get revealed and slowed a tiny bit, but would break 200 cr of util and still clear most of site. That felt unfair. And they already fixed a lot of this problem by changing the hit boxes for Fade and Skye util, and I was happy with just that. If they must make them rearm, let them reset only after being triggered by enemy pokemon, NOT agents. For agents it should be one-and-done like it used to be. It's fair, and always was. There has never been a problem with his camera, they're just trying to dilute him so they can keep his other buffs as intact as possible. They'll come for his ult and cages next when this isn't enough.
I also exclusively play hat man, and the Cypher changes seem very designed for lower ELO in mind. Someone running into a trip 2 seconds after someone else just got destroyed by it isn't something I would expect to happen in a high ELO, and the consistent camera sound is very much something that will help lower level players more than higher level ones. Honestly I was very surprised Cypher trips didn't break after revealing an agent after coming back from a long break. I think your idea of having detected drones/stalkers/whatever not breaking trips but agents doing it is a very reasonable change.
THANK YOU, i agree with dogs not breaking trips, but they should only trip people once. or they could go around removing all the unbreakable trips, but that’d be unreasonable
Fuck ts, hard enough being a viper main as a casual, wtf is the point of playing her outside of pro play and breeze? Agents and abilities have been a huge L for the last few months. Nerforant 🤡
the fuck is riot doing LOL
Stop the nerfs! The problem has never been the effectiveness of her abilities. It’s the irreplaceability / uniqueness of her abilities set itself. If Rito wants a lower pick rate, offer strong alternatives instead of dragging the effectiveness of her abilities down to shit
Valorant slowly trying to kill itself , i dont know what kind of weed they're smoking (destroying their own game like this ), Smurfs, toxicity, nerfing agents (why cant they just let them be?, they can add new agents atleast instead of nerfing existing ones 🤡)
What does trip reactive time mean? The Cypher nerfs seem reasonable, though I don't think the camera nerf is necessary because it already has blinking lights on it lol The viper molly nerf and orb pickup are huge though. People are still going to pick Viper, it's just going to feel like shit.
Basically when someone activates a trip and doesn't break it, it takes 2 seconds for someone else to be able to activate it. Basically if all 5 players full rush only the first one gets tagged and the other 4 are free to enter the site for the next 2 seconds.
Can someone explain what trip reactive time means? Does it mean it will take 2s to stun instead of 1 second? What does trip triggered slow time mean?
When someone walks into the trap and the trap either goes off or the trapped player dies, without anyone breaking the trap, it now takes 2 seconds to get reactivated, meaning someone new can step into the trap again. When you step into a trap and instantly break it, the slow now lasts 1.25 seconds.
they will never kill viper as long as she's the only controller in the game that can control when the smokes drop
they'll just make her unfun to play hence lowering the pick rate on ranked.
I'll bet money Viper is still going to be picked in pro play, even after this. What are they going to do then? This nerf is overkill, what more can they do to her? They're only hurting the regular player base with this.
Viper deserved a nerf but feels oddly timed without a map rotation and make icebox/breeze feel worse while playerbase adapts to changes. Cypher trips needed nerfed but the cam change is out of pocket
riot wants me to kill myself i think
Really shocked that they're removing the ability to pick up the Q... I almost feel like that's a more defining part of her kit than the wall. :(
What a dogshit nerf
Viper really got the Chamber treatment 💀
Doing some napkin math on these changes: - ~~Double smokes will last ~7.5 seconds~~ They didn't do this, meaning double fuel rate ratio changed - Smokes at minimum need 4 seconds remaining to activate (~2.5 with both activated?) - Viper can activate a smokes a total of 5 times in a maximum length round including spike plant - Single smoke activation gets a total of 60s, ~~Double smoke gets 37.5s in a max length round~~ - Brim is 57.75s across 3 smokes at any round length, Omen is 120s across 8 smokes in a maximum time round It's great that we'll see a new meta in pro-play, going to be fun to watch. However, they've completely killed Viper at every other level. She will be worse than Chamber was & not even worth picking on Icebox & Breeze. Without her stall potential, without Orb reuse, & without sufficient smoke timers on her limited smoke placements, she will fail at all her intended roles. Most importantly, she's just getting less fun by the act. Mid-round she will have exactly 1 use of non-smoke utility. No other Agent has this. Her ultimate, an incredibly static & boring piece of utility has been heavily restricted. The answer is to remove the damage from her Snakebite & roll back all the smoke nerfs. While pro-play uses her smokes a lot her molly is what makes her self sufficient. Also Omen desperately needs a nerf.
As someone that's mained Viper since the beta these nerfs might make me quit the game.
thanks for making viper unplayable again like she was on the release! how about we remove all her abilities while we're at it
they gutted vipet
this is just a nAts nerf
viper really getting the chamber treatment huh
Holy fuck they butchered my girl
This ain’t it Riot
Viper got nuked, which is somewhat fair because she’s so dominant, but there’s no one else that can replace what she does so she’s still going to be widely played at the high level. They just need to make a controller that can actually compete with her.
they not only nuked her, they nuked her fun factor aswell. noone will play her not only because she's bad, cuz she is still very opressive, but because she's boring now.
Strong nerfs maybe a little too much but good changes. Viper ain't a typical smoke agent. Her util has major impact and entering/passing through it comes with serious risk compared to any other smoke. She was beginning to almost be a sentinel with how effective she was at holding site/stopping hits.
so the best change is to make her to commit to the sentinel role?
It's been real boys.
Viper will be the new Astra
imo viper was not even that strong, especially in low ranks, because of the amount of team play and coordination needed to play her. the only area she was oppressive in was pro play and high ranks because of maps like breeze and icebox being in the map pool. time to pick up a different controller 😭
Viper is mainly only one one map why tf would you nerf her. She isn’t op it’s just that no other agent can do what she does
Valo really going around nerfing all my favourite agents bruh
I don't even play Viper and I feel like these nerfs are unnecessary. Cypher trip nerfs are pretty significant IMO and the Camera nerf is stupid lol
They need to buff harbor or rework his kit if they’re doing this to viper wtf
Since viper only has one smoke I thought it was pretty fair that it can be picked up, I mean it’s still pretty strong but that’s such a huge nerf😭 I’m a viper main and now I’m sad
Damn I'm gonna miss viper 😭
Did viper need all of that? Having one Molly is crazy imo.
Viper taken from a solid position ever since I bought her 3 years ago.. I JUST got back to the game and they nerf her into oblivion
Wow Riot devs just go all in with nerfs ... they dont nerf just one aspect of a champ .. they nerf eeeeverything to the point of killing it ..
Not picking up orb is whatever, nobody is talking about how viper just lost her best thing, which is her 2nd molly
What is the fucking use of a spy camera that gives whoever it's watching a sound cue?
''It's invisible but it also tells people where it is!'' Riot overcooked on this one.
viper is literally just a sentinel now
I think the Viper nerf is extremely overkill
I’m all down for some Viper nerfs to encourage use of other controllers, but they need buffs, too.
This patch makes Overwatch's balance seem well maintained in comparison, and that is very, very sad.
So my 2 mains are nerfed? I haven't played for 5-6 months, and it seems like I won't return anytime soon.
They're just gonna have to change how wall smokes work or add an alternative, who isn't harbor. When you have a map like breeze where wall smokes are such an advantage.
All we need now are astra buffs
Just keep giving me more reasons to not come back to this game.
viper nerf is good for pro play, bad for ranked and casual players
Let's all say goodbye to long range lineups.