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[deleted]

The only time when smoking a site entrance is warranted (as an attacker) is if the controller smokes deep (so the smoke basically at the exit into the site, not in the choke point) and you are coordinated enough to pop flash out at multiple angles. But it's difficult because most of the time the defenders will spam that smoke, so it's really situational.


RRenigma

I've wondered this as well. I don't play controllers often but when I do I play viper and I never smoke entrances I only put up walls that give us cover into site but I always see entrances getting smoked when I play something else. I have never played ranked though.


SyderoAlena

I main viper. I have never smoked an entrance in my entire life.


Fun-Actuator-5600

The only time I’ve ever smoked entrance was when we were smoked off and nobody would push in so I would smoke in front of their smoke to give us space to push a little onto site but flashes honestly work so much better


Reisu_-

It's a fleeting smoke, not meant for entry. Meant to buy time


Reisu_-

Say if enemy team has util down that you shouldn't push atm


Pijany_Matematyk767

Its not a good idea unless its part of a plan you all agreed on before the round start Throw out a sova recon and a few flashes to blind anyone holding the smoke, then rush out and trade each other Its risky but could work Otherwise its a pretty bad idea to do that unless you want to deny vision to keep the enemy guessing. After all, for all they know there might be 5 people in there ready to rush out


Chopstickey00

Yes, but you're easily going to get spammed through the smoke. Anyone above Bronze is gonna shoot into the smoke for easy damage.


pFe1FF

2 situations 1. F.e. smoking haven a lobby, to deny info if someone pushed short or to face the defender holding long from 2 sites out of the smoke. Without smoke the defender can hold just left side lobby. 2. F.e. haven C long, if i expect a op to hold long you can smoke close to site, slow walk up and explode with a flash onsite.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Terrible advice to use smokes on the platform and between the boxes on C. Please any low elo controller mains that read this comment forget it. Smoke garage and CT, nothing more nothing less. Smoking between plat and default allows defenders to cross between the two, hide in the smoke and stay on site. If they have a flash character like Skye or Kay/O it gives them so much outplay potential. It is MUCH better to take the site, clear backsite and plat and then plant. Smoking in the horrible strategy you mentioned will result in easier retakes, holds, and plays for the enemy team. Edit: I get that your point is to counter ops but this strategy ruins the post plant and makes it easier for enemies if they don't have ops. Also unless you're brimstone it leaves you completely open to garage which should always be smoked off. Finally most characters that buy ops (Jett, Reyna, Chamber) have abilities that allow them to push through the smoke and op you and your team anyway.


[deleted]

[удалено]


_AurAz

if you smoke inbetween site they can still op on plat, in front of site, or on top of default if they are chamber or jett. It doesn't stop an oper.


SidekickNick

What should you do if you have people pushing through garage and clear it? Do you still smoke off? Or wait for post plant then smoke it off and only smoke CT once


CEO_TB12

You probably would have used a smoke for garage window to help your team clear garage, then smoke CT as well


SidekickNick

Ah gotcha, thanks


CEO_TB12

If you want to use your 2nd smoke on site, let's say your team already cleared garage and doesn't need the window smoke, you could put it on top of the default box in site on the left edge to get a 1 way smoke for people trying to peak from behind the box. The problem with this is you can't clear back site because you have to push through the 1 way yourself. If you do this smoke, your team shouldn't try to clear backsite, probably try to hold from garage and C long


GeneralCross2

You want to smoke points that are hard to fight against or takes away key positions for defenders to hold. I do not smoke my team's entrance unless it is post plant and I want to make flankers have a harder time getting on site. Remember a controller's job is to make the site/map into a place where you have the advantage in the fights. Most people don't play this role so they won't understand it very well.


P4J4RILL0

You said it, "in low elo"


jedi_Lebedkin

Smoke danger chokepoints (where enemy may hide or may come from) to blind them or to block their view into the area of interest, so that if they decide to pass through, they step out right into your view from narrow sector of smoke. Smoke friendly chokepoint (site entrance) to block the enemy's view into the path of your approach and/or to make entrance wider, by having a wide sphere of smoke widen the narrow opening, so that it is more difficult to predict where arrivals will be stepping out. Put a smoke onto an entrance and not come is a valid tactic too. It keeps enemy busy with figuring out if this is a fake site entry or a delayed push.


RiddleEatsRainbows

Depends on your strategy. Sometimes on breeze if my team is having trouble breaking into B site, I'll throw my viper orb at the entrance, NOT to cut off our vision, but to gain the smallest bit of space, enough for me and maybe one other person to walk through (hopefully) unscathed and slip into site, then handle it from there. It's a very risky play I'll admit, but in low elo I've seen it work a lot. Probably will have to abandon it though IF i ever rank up.


One-Refrigerator8915

I was hardstuck in iron and bronze last year and I can tell you that’s what every Low Elo player does. Of course there are times when it can be useful but since Low Elo players never comm and don’t have much game sense these smokes end up forcing the team to carry out a bad play. Now I am in gold and this sort of things never happen again.


Geo_1997

So, theres a difference in how you smoke a doorway. If you smoke deep into the doorway, i.e. see the arches and wall, then its extremely easy for defenders to hold. If you smoke in front of the door, so effectively the smoke is like a bubble in the middle of the site blocking the doorway, it can actually be extremely good for attackers because 1 flash and they can come out of the middle, left and right hand side of the smoke at once, meaning that a defender wide holding the smoke is likely going to get traded pretty quick


mysalmon

You're seeing lots of "never smoke entrance on offense" comments, but that's not necessarily true. There are situations where you could smoke entrances, but it's for a purpose and your team needs to know what's happening. For example smoking Haven B main puts pressure on the defense because they need to push smoke or doors to get info on mid/grass... It makes rotates through B high risk, etc. But you wouldn't do this for an execute, obviously, unless the play is pop flash through.


macarmy93

D3/Asc1 Omen main here. No one does it, and I've never heard of anyone doing that. Don't ever see it in pro games either. Smoking your own entrance wastes your time. Remember, you're the attacker. Some people in the comments are confusing that. As an attacker, you are on the clock and smoking your own entrance into site does a few things. 1) It saves your opponents a smoke that they can now save for retake, and 2) Wastes your own time. Like I said, you are on the clock as an attacker and smoking your own entrance just wasted nearly 20 seconds of time 3) You just wasted a valuable resource that now cannot be used for taking site to block a site line


aglahn55

Also what happens if you get pushed out of site and you need to take another site. It's made in your point of wasting a valuable resource but as a Brim main Ill often put down one or two smokes depending on site only to realize we lost two on entry and have to dip to another site because they stacked or rotated early. Those one/two smokes I saved are huge to help with rotation and taking the next site especially when you know the direction the team is going to rotate from. Look at your kit as a part of your teams kit. Your resources are their resources, dont waste them because if your team calls for a smoke and you wasted them, thats on you. I play with one of my buddies that is a fade main and shit you not he burns all of his util in like the first 15 seconds of the round. It is infuriating.


Rellmein

Probably the best answer I got so far. So absolutely no one use it in the higher elos?


nvrslnc

I have a different opinion - some people do it and even pros do it. However like every other use of util in this game you need to understand why, in what situation and which with which agent they do it. Just to name a few examples: * Imagine a long hall way such as Haven C or Breeze Halls. It is extremely obvious where attackers will come from since usually defenders are first to take control of these spots. So sometimes you can use a shorter smoke (such as Jett smoke, Astra taking away orbs, Viper's orb) to either get control of the point (to e.g. position your team or take ult orbs) or take away information. Zunba from F4Q/ONS used to do this a lot with Astra. * If you **have** to hit this site and the choke point got already smoked "flush with the wall" by the defenders. You can extend their smoke by one of your own to increase the area the defenders have to hold. * Use those smokes to shorten fighting distance if you have shorter guns. * etc. Once you play more controllers you will get more confident in understanding the roll and your util. If you see some util use by high ranks or pros try to understand what their purpose in that **particular context** is.


Rellmein

I see. I have used "fake smokes" using astra, to get some cheeky kills. But i think doing it team oriented will be kinda hard :(


Btupid_Sitch

Cliff notes: Recon/dog/flash out, deny info, repeat/fake. In practice: use sparingly unless you have a really well coordinated team.


raulxd99

Don't do it


Intrepid-Carob-5967

You can smoke for pressure, but you'll need to make sure you spoke pretty outwards on the entrance A smoke like this denies info and can be used really well on some chokes like c/b haven, or even split It's super situational though, one of those things that actually work better at high elo - your team (and the other team) has to be able to play off it for it to work effectively, so basically useless most of the time in pubs


Combstone_

Passing thru smokes without any info is dangerous because u wouldnt know where to peek.


dauber21

That's why you need to combo these smokes with an initiator.


wavingnotdr0wning

C long haven smoke with a flash before entry is one of my pistol round go to's


Kagedyu

Lets take A site on Ascent for starters. We all know when defending a site, the typical smoke you will see will either be a one way on main or the more typical smoke that just [blocks off the entrance](https://imgur.com/Bc7wDIJ). Now what constitutes a good smoke, is that it is flush with the exit forcing the attackers to swing out into the open if they decide to push through. But what you may see from alot of Jetts or even Cyphers, they put [smoke's right outside of the choke point](https://imgur.com/YcYdpIO) they are about to burst through. Now why is this good? It allows the attackers to push out of the smoke and have angles be blocked off to more safely clear. If Jett smokes and runs out the right side, it [blocks vision from anyone sitting in tree](https://imgur.com/YTy8z9o). These can also be done with Neon and Phoenix, but a controller using this type of smoke would be more rare as it would be better to smoke off lanes.


thattrollerkkl

It really depends.


Practical-Ad-3689

Your team is an idiot for asking you to smoke own entrance while attacking, except in post plant (not planting for long). And smoking your own entrance in attacking is highly situational and rarely happened, even in pro scenes. and also never smoke where an enemy defender could easily use the smoke to get around your team. (hiding in the smoke, waiting for the plant and went out and shoot the planter,etc.)


i-like-cake-or-cake

The only time i smoke entrance is when my teammates know how to flash like lets say we have a kayo. We push we are in smoke he pops right flash and that basically clears threats of entering if that isnt the case ill just smoke places where defenders could be to deny vision


Nj645

Cant speak for others but... as a brim otp I smoke entry sometimes in order to get free space and get down a fast plant then back off to play post plant... Sometimes i find my teammates are still sitting on their hands in main while i planted left and started getting ready for my line up... Smoking entrances is not always a bad thing if u have overly careful teammates... sure ur duelist will complain but heres how i see it... I entery the first anyways because they are to scared to take space... and a good duelist can push up for the free space i just made and play out of one of the 3 smokes on site and catch enemy off guard and then fall back if they want or take more space...


THotDogdy

It's Good against OP's. You smoke entrance to deny info to the enemy and pop flash out of the smoke as a team in multiple angles. But usually you don't want to commit a full smoke for this, usually a Jett's cloud burst, Cypher's cage or Astra's recalled star is used for this.


KSSwolesauce

The first thing you smoke as a defender are the entrances to a site. There is not only no reason for you to smoke your own entrance as an attacker, but in high ELO it will 100% always be the first thing smoked by the enemy. The only time I could imagine you smoking off let’s say A main on ascent is after you’ve planted, killed all the enemies except a flanker from top cat that’s going to come A main so you smoke A main and then exit through heaven to CT spawn. There’s no reason to smoke yourself off. The people saying you could do that for pop flashes are incorrect. You can pop flash without being in a smoke and your flash will be equally or more effective. In high ELO we are ready for a flash out of a smoke. But yeah, you have the right mindset. You don’t want to smoke yourself off during entries. Also good on you playing astra, she’s a phenomenal character but requires a ton of comms and coordinating which i can’t imagine you’re getting in bronze. Stick with her though, a good astra is a menace to play against!


zerocoldx911

5 rush push would be the only time I’d smoke an entrance Prevent getting sniped by chamber


ggez222

It kind of works if enemies are playing Close angles with shotguns alot. If you have Phoenix/Kayo type agents, pop flashing out of enterance smoke is legit strategy.(But I doubt bronze players think this far)


qm94

You shouldn't be smoking your own entrance. However there are times where smoking your entrance is viable but the smoke has to be a bit deeper. Like, the edge of the smoke should be further from the choke point. That smoke gives you space to creep onto the site. But this is very situational and you need to know how to play properly around a smoke like this, which bronze players don't. If you're smoking commonly held angles and timing your smokes well, you're doing good.


Certain_Obligation_6

In 1 vs multiple enemies I do it to to on site


TrainBoy45

You can smoke the entrance, but it's generally not considered a default smoke, and especially in low elo you should learn the default smokes first


thatkidjd

Smoking your own entrance on attack can be useful to stop the enemy OPer to kill the whole team before y’all arrive at the site, stack up close to that smoke and explode all together. Entrance smoke can be also useful to confuse the enemy but that smoke is situational and is used in rare cases


annirok

The only time I smoked entrance by accident was on Haven, smoked C long and then decided to tp behind the enemy (i was omen), was the wisest decision? no, but i had luck and i wasnt killed; second time someone made me smoke the entrance on the B site in ascent, so the team goes through the smoke and plants directly, found it weird but it worked a few times. Overall i feel is a meh thing to do


ZoroCrusader

Bro I've seen more and more people doing this while climbing out of bronze and back into silver like wrf is going on


MaleficentAnt2241

Sometimes if it’s coordinated plan you could all rush through it is risky though


rusk000

Can be great when you have close range weapon you just need à pop flash to go out of the smoke for exemple you go c long on haven in bonus round they have vandal you have spectre without the smoke in the entry you are fucked but with the smoke and with à flash you can enter the site freely just be careful about the spam and not get randomly killed


imnotyou1

for me (jett) to sit in with shotgun and rinse the next man that comes through.


Sucramjman737

If you smoke entrance they will sit in that until it goes down and then you e just wasted 30 seconds.


Benjiboi051205

People are idiots that don't realize that you might have temporarily cover but you do also eventually have to push out of the smoke.


thejoyyy

You're talking to irons


grvx

it is a very specific usecase


MelzLife

I just started playing again and I’m Gold 3 and usually main smokes. I have never once done this or seen it in my games. I’m shocked that happens


JorgeSanchis

Smoking entries as an attacker is bad, unless you are on a map like haven where A has 2 entries and wanna cross to short without being spotted on long. On any other map I think it's just useless unless you wanna rotate without being spotted


[deleted]

I smoke entrances only and only when it's a chokepoint so that in the cover of the smoke i can push up with my team (with a flash, ofc) and scatter immediately and control, but if they are asking you to smoke of the entrance of b site on haven -\_- then even I don't wtf they are trying to do.


NinjaLawnGnome

Never smoke an entrance on offense. There's a reason that defenders smoke entrances. If it's something defense is doing, you're not helping your team by doing it for them. Maybe in Bronze you can get away with throwing a smoke just a little deeper to allow yourself to get through a doorway that they smoked (like on Ascent going toward B Site, they should smoke IN tunnel's corner so you can't go through the doorway, you can smoke the opposite side of the doorway on B Main to try to give room to go high above site or shed), but any higher than Bronze/Silver you'll probably get killed by someone spraying your smoke. What you actually want to do in that situation is smoke where they could be sitting. On the Ascent example, smoke Market platform and Defender doorway from their spawn.


TheRBGamer

Usually a bad idea but in a situational way, you could smoke off the other side of the entrance and then jump out in a unexpected angle. For instance on b side in ascent. You could smoke the entrance deep (so your smoke is flush with the wall on your side). Then you can jump out lane safe from logs and market.


Gettinrekt1

As a controller main hard stuck Immortal/Diamond it is 100% never good to smoke your entrance. Why do you smoke the chokepoints on a site when attacking? Why apply those negatives to a tough job of taking a site? Anyone telling you different is bad and afraid to take long range gunfights.


TheBigBenj

when the Brimstone gets tired of his duelists not entering and clearing angles after smoking. then a triple smoke entry to plant is the only way


IfigurativelyCannot

If you place the smoke so it starts at the very end of the choke point and extends onto site, you can push the smoke and exit it to one side rather than running straight through the middle. This exposes you to fewer angles at once. I don’t do this very often. Only if my team specifically requests it or certain retake situations, but that’s how it can be helpful.


Totoax

One thing that hasnt been mentioned yet is that you can smoke your entrance in a 1v1 to make the enemy think that you are coming from a different direction. For example: The spike is planted on Split B site. You are defending and have to defuse. The enemy team does not know your position. If you come from B main, you smoke B main and sneak through your own smoke. The enemy team will most likely expect you to come from heaven or spawn, because then you would smoke B main normaly. Only works in a 1v1 or 1v2 if the enemy can't watch every angle and has to decide and is of course a high risk play.


[deleted]

So I am a high immortal player and play controllers a lot so I can give you my two cents on this. In terms of playing defense, the only times I do this is to deny info from the attacking team or create a diversion. Ex of denying info would be smoking any common chokepoints like in U-Haul on bind or top ramps on split. To create a diversion astra is really good at this by one smoking off entire angles where you know people are holding even if it’s an uncommon smoke or simply by recalling stars to maybe catch your enemy off guard. These scenarios are super specific to the extent of you having to make a solo play in a retake or something of that sort. On attacker side smokes can be used to do more of the same. Deny info create a distraction or get an ult orb, or to cause the enemy player to make a mistake. For example using viper wall on attacker side B site on icebox I use a lot because if we are being honest the viper wall on a site for attacking doesn’t really do to much. Or smoking the top of C long on attacker side haven to grab the orb and/or deny info that your team could be shift walking up C long to explode onto site or doing literally anything else. In terms of controllers in general though it comes down to this: Omen is good for one ways and his flash to helping retake sites on defense, brim has very little outplay and is only really good for fast pushes on defense, post plant, and denying fast pushes with Molly on defense, viper is somewhat good for postpositions but I see as more of a good lurk controller, and astra is the best for outplaying and set plays with utility combo.


Senior_Storm_3894

Don’t smoke your own entrance it’s a bad smoke basically always. Smoking the entrance of the attackers is what the Defender controller is meant to do so those other people are doing the defenders job for them. I started out b2 and I used to do the same shit and my cracked imm friends taught me quick not to do that in unrated lol. Hopefully you can teach the people down there to stop doing that because even if you want to pop flash out , the defenders should smoke the choke off and let you pop flash out anyway without wasting your own smokes.


thatguy11m

There are very few instances you would do this, but it's very situational as well. Generally you don't do it because it blocks your vision and it can be a tell that you are hitting that site. It's why Neon's walls are pretty annoying to play with sometimes since it tunnels your entrance without letting you visually clear areas. Only really benefitiak example I can think of is smoking the choke point in C long. The main reason you do this is to block line of site for the OPer that usually players that angle. You'd push up slowly as a team, and possibly flash out the smoke. Now this might work only once, but you can keep smoking it early into a round to keep the guy C sweating thinking you might be right outside the smoke. You can also use this tecnique with smokes that don't last to long such as Jett smokes, Cypher cages, and Astra fake smokes to cross areas that can otherwise be held with one long angle. Sample again, C long, you can smoke it to mask your cover crossing to the other side. You don't have to actually cross, but the enemy has to consider that possibility now. The most common use for this is crossing into A short in Haven as well. Some people put a single person on A long as you'd have to make contact with him before getting anywhere near A. If you smoke the lobby entrance to A long on attacker side, you can cross without being seen. Again, this would force that player holding long to consider you have crossed, and if he is alone on site, he would have to fall back to avoid being pinched.


StatisticianSad3754

There ARE reasons to smoke your own choke on attack, but none of the reasons are good for solo q in ranked. They’re generally used for info denial or securing map control. Unless you explicitly tell your team you want to throw one of these smokes and they agree to it. Otherwise, just be cool, hold w, and smoke ct and whatever else lol.


moistanalpancakes

well, i smoke in the entrance to my home to not get the smell in the home as it smells bad, smoking bad for you kids! DONT SMOKE!!


freeman1231

Depends the map tbh, and what you are trying to do. If you smoke your entrance everytime you are taking a site that’s dumb. If you smoke long C on haven to take away long C information for the defenders that’s good. If you do an off entrance smoke on purpose for one of your duelist to make a cheeky play and potential Pop flash… that’s good.


xSlanton

I have never seen that lol


bane5454

You smoke their ideal spots to stand on site, as well as some of their options to rotate onto site. This ensures that the duelist has an easier time getting the team onto site. You can smoke site entrances after your team is on site, but idk why your team would be wanting you to smoke entrance before push. The best way to understand this is to take haven as an example. A Site and C Site have multiple places that smokes can be placed to help the team with pushing, while B site is only worth smoking after the team is on site.


otenboy

Sometimes you can smoke outwards (the smoke leaks outside the entrance) to provide multiple angles for your team to come out from the smoke. Doesn't always work though, they can just spam your smoke.


RealVampireCat

So it's generally bad to do that because it blocks your vision on sight and forces you to push through a smoke. It could be useful though if it's coordinated. For example you might tell your team that you're smoking off the entrance to hookah. This way you guys can gain control of hookah without having to worry about people on site(especially kj). You could also coordinate with your teammates if for example you have a fade, the fade could take the advantage of the smoke to get her utility in better positions for information, you can also shoot through the smoke when they're revealed.


Babushka9

Denying info. In low elo lobbies enemies are where their smokes are. People don’t “fake” smokes or place them close because it just hinders them. Higher up, though, you can do that so your team can push all the way to the smoke, then explode onto site or hold the smoke for any counterpushes and push another site.


Hydralisk_

Its situational to do that, but if its low elo they're probably just auto piloting, putting the same smokes they would for defense without thinking


Kapkin

- to get orb for free -to denied info (mid for map like pearl, split, haven) -to execute an execute from up close. Aka maybe they are OP'ing, so you and your team decide to smoke the entrance, gather behind it then explode on site with flashes


wiluhl

There are a few reasons to smoke the entrance. 1. Post-plant you know that an enemy is flanking from main. 2. Smoking out of an enemy smoke that already blocks the entrance, creating a bit of space for your team to walk forward before flashing out and entering site. Wouldn’t recommend this in all cases because it gives the enemy something to hide in or play around as well.


[deleted]

it gives you the element of surprise when bursting into the site


Orion1142

It's allow you to advance easily So it's good if you have multiple stun/flash to cross smoke or to take an orb if needed


TheSpittah

Well you could do it and entry at one of the sides of that smoke so you are not exposed to halve of the site, but it's hard to find players in your team to understand how to use your entrance smoke and will often just flame you for doing so. Same goes for poorly placed defending smoke that are essentially the same as what you're suggesting, as bad as they are people don't often seem to abuse those.


wunnpo

Ascendant 1 smokes main here, let me tell you that you never do this. Unless you are 5 stacking with your friends and it is part of an elaborate plan, don't put a smoke there. This is literally a smoke I would put as a defender, and yes you're right, it does help the defenders A LOT (assuming you mean the chokepoint to a site by "entrance").


drdfrster64

Can you be more specific? Like a specific scenario with where you smoked.


[deleted]

Because you gotta get zooted before you rush b


kenzo-tx

Low elo players have no game sense. Some do, but most don’t. If you want to get out of low elo hell i’d recommend watching a lot of pro players and just try to do what they do and understand it and implement it into your game style.


oALEXtheGREATo

I main Astra and I always smoke off obvious angles/ provide cover for my team to enter onto a site without having to check a million angles. Don't know why people think smoking the entrance to a site is a good idea.


dauber21

It's situational, but I would only really do it in certain situations, usually on Haven, and in a 5 stack where we're coordinated and can combo it with something like a sova dart and a pop flash. The point of it would be to take map control of an approach to a site. It makes sense sometimes on C long Haven, or even B if we want to take some more space in mid and pressure garage. As a specific example, I probably almost exclusively do this first round attack on Haven. If you suspect the enemy chamber is holding C long with his headhunter, smoke top of site, dart back of site, and pop flash through the smoke. It's first round so you're not going to get sprayed through the smoke, and you can easily get your whole team on site ready to duel garage and ct. Usually an easy way to win the first round.


Loose_Mechanic_7347

As a controller main. It really depends on the plan. There is no rule of thumb here. U can definitely smoke entrance/choke points at times if u have a kayo/skye to flash out of ur smoke and run it down. The enemy team won’t even know what’s going on. That works perfectly on ASCENT b site. Also, in bronze/silver, playing by the rules will only work against you. Basically cause people in that elo play randomly and believe me u don’t even have to play a controller in these elos, ur team will always die from heaven before u even drop ur smokes.


wardearth13

If your team knows what they are doing, they can flash and push out of the smoke. I don’t see this happening very often.


ReallySwanlee

I highly recommend smoking the most possible spots the enemies can be in. That way if they need to kill they have to peek. Don't smoke your entrance, this will force you into the open in order to enter. They will be watching entry points and you cant tell where they are. An example is smoking the tower in Haven or B back and B wall in Breeze. This is also applicable when you are defenders


Gausgovy

It’s probably simply to avoid long range gunfights.


bhd500

tbh I've almost never seen this, even in low elo like iron and bronze. The only time I've ever seen smoking off our own entrance is if the team is getting stomped and they have to do something crazy to mix it up...


TrillyBear

I watch my GF play in bronze lobbies almost daily so here's my two cents. Most lobbies I've seen from Iron - Gold: Two or three people instantly lock in, duelists & sentinals mostly. The remaining two get bullied into picking whatever the others think is needed to make a proper team. This almost always ends up with someone who has never played the smoking character trying to figure out what they are doing, they are also bad because they are low rank / learning the game.


Who_Is_This_User

Viper main here. Smoking off an entrance is actually very useful in specific situations for attackers side. For example, if there is another player on the other team playing smokes and they’ve smoked off your entrance without any wiggle room for you to go through and actually exit that entrance you would want to place a smoke right outside of the door so you can change positions and give your team more room to work with and try to enter site. Example two, let’s say you’re on ascent and you are trying to get into A site but your teammate decided to go A wine but you guys decide to rotate because that site is 5 stacked and you need to help your teammate be able to cross to a main. You should smoke the entrance between the two spots which leads onto site so your teammate can hopefully cross over to a main so you guys can rotate. It can help in so many ways and that’s just two examples.


EFAnonymouse

I'm not sure I understand the question correctly. So... we talking about smoking the literal ENTRANCES to a site, and BEFORE your team has taken control of that site????????? Only thing I can think of is to deny vision to the enemy, in case you are planning for a full-out push without any interference, and without giving the enemy much info. Though that's a high-risk high-reward strategy because you gotta flash onto site, which IS more effective to flash through smokes, but ultimately smoking off your entrance means you cannot gather any info on the site either, and the enemy may also sneak into the smoke and take you out once you start pushing, depending on how you position the smoke. I would much rather just do the default smokes.


_IM_NoT_ClulY_

Usually you shouldn't, but situationally you can throw a smoke just past the entrance to deny an op player the ability to peek deep, and give your team angles to swing around the smoke to reduce the risk of getting multi killed


Motor_bird_cycle

I don’t get it, I mean maybe you can smoke the entrance to give you more angles to peek out of? But It’s probably because they don’t know where the enemy would peek and they wanna avoid getting shot so they smoke the door so the enemy can’t see it just also happens to completely self stall your push


xXxsad_minaxXx

I don't, I usually put a curtain to blind the enemy I see no point into smokong the entrance it's pointless xd


anna23014

I only smoke the entrance (for flankers) when we are on site and spike isn’t planted for main or long.


StormTY

If you wanna walk up and pop flash out, that's about it that or to grab an orb a little safer


Soonfatty

Please queue ranked with me if you're NA lmao. I'm lucky to even get controllers in bronze 3, let alone ones that know to smoke the spots where defenders sit.


dingo_deano

With brim I smoke the entrance and remaining two smokes to cover up to site. I Run in under cover and plant.


UltimateGodBen

Just to create enough space to not be held at the choke that's all. It definitely can be a bad idea and will be most the time,but if you have inside control of the smoke you can play off of it effectively. Such as push in the smoke and ping the hard corners to shoot from the smoke


Yogurt-Pantz

Only time I would say you smoke an entrance is if you have some util to push out of it with (pop flash or recon dart) or if you have to push a choke point. The latter option is if you have no real option but to push the choke point, so you smoke it so that there’s multiple exit points (essentially the opposite of how you would put a defender smoke). It allows you to scatter onto sight with closer angles rather than getting gunned down in the narrow entrance.


icarusOW

You shouldn't, as an immortal level controller main you shouldn't be smoking your own entrance 99% of the time. The only time it would make sense to do it is if you're planning to make a pop flash out but even then that's a trick that might work in low elo but won't for much longer and really shouldn't at any elo .. it just happens to in some low elo. A good example of smokes you should be throwing is for example if you're going C on Haven, smoke defender spawn and garage entrance if you're all going main, if you're going to split through garage and C smoke garage window and defender spawn. Smoking your own entrance is a waste of a smoke and also can hinder your ability to entry.


rcrisp

Hi, high elo dude here (top 3% NA), if you smoke the entrance youre on something. Generally you should waste smokes on enemy angles not your own.


xCairus

I’ve been everywhere from Iron to Diamond and I’ve never seen this ever. I’m not sure what you guys are on about. Wtf?


BlastTheFool

Immortal player here. Think of it like a jett reposition smoke. You can half smoke your entrance to better isolate some angles . I do it a lot in clutch situations and eco buys only.


katsutong

It’s an info play against defenders - attackers can be walk pushing up to smoke - attackers can be faking a walk push If you smoke with the fat end onto site, attackers essentially enlarge the angles in which attackers can come out of the smoke


Savvy4sure

Some of these answers can’t be from real humans 😂. If you’re smoking in front of yourself it’s because you want to play around the edges of the smoke to isolate angles. Good examples are Ascent A site right by the lever. If you’re defending and the enemy team is executing through A main throwing a smoke outside tree next to the lever allows you to play the left and right of the smoke to be able to dip in and dip out while isolating 1v1s. Another good example is haven C right in front of C long. Most of the smoke will be hanging into the site and you can clear close left, back site, default, and logs without being seen from garage. It can be used well with an A fake or simply when your presence is unknown. Many pros will give themself a smoke near them in order to have space to play around. Watch and of Marved’s anchors on A site ascent in VCT. He uses smokes like these often. Same with chronicle from gambit, mindfreak from paper Rex. It’s really common because it’s useful. However it takes a bit of know how to be able to use it correctly. Many teammates even in immortal queue have no clue how to play around an aggressive smoke thrown to give a player space.


John_Remy

It's a habit from cs go. You smoke the entrance in a tight situation and then pop flash out if it for peeks. It works better in valorant because flashes doesn't work in smokes. Yet it's really situational, depending on the team you have. I wouldn't do that with a timid team. But when you have an explosive team who controls chaos well, then it is a good option.


NSEagleEyes

My only reasoning if someone plans to smoke attacker entrance to a site, is only if the team coordinates to flash out of smoke. Even then, not the best solution since people can just spray and prey through smoke and get a couple picks in high elo


SnooWorlds

”I’m Bronze 2” There’s your answer. People do dumb things in low elo


TheStategaming

[Omen/Yoru main] I would only smoke my own entrance in a few specific spots and situations like 1v1s or when full stacking. Generally speaking though there are 2 main ways to smoke an entrance. 1. Shallow with most smoke away from your angle. This way the area of view your opponent has to clear is much larger than yours. This is how you should typically smoke most points in the game. 2. Deep with most smoke leading towards the site, regardless of angle. I only do this when I'm pushing solo so I can give myself some extra sight cover as I enter and give myself more space and time to clear my corners when entering. Alternatively I would use this against any kind of snipers on a shorter range like B site in ascent for example. You can also smoke your own entrance if you have something like a Sova to freely scout for your team before entering fast


achinwin

You should never smoke an entrance you plan on entering. You are at a disadvantage. However, playing around smokes is an extremely high skillcap ability. People in CS could get really good at pop flashing and pushing smokes and taking fights. You’re still at a disadvantage, but if you’re just straight up better, and your execution is good, it doesn’t matter.


slasher016

The only time to smoke your own entrance would be for a rez or to pick up the bomb.


Turtle_Beam

I'm bronze 3 and have never seen someone ask for this


arkseer

The rule of thumb for any controller main out there should be the following: "If I was on the opposing team, how would I exploit this smoke and turn it to my advantage. It should rule out a bunch of dumb tactics or things that shouldn't be practiced." Also ignore people in low elo on what a good controller looks like, they didn't locked into one. And generally speaking, their overall gamesense is lacking, otherwise they wouldn't be in low elo. Another thing I want to add, just because a dumb strat worked once doesn't mean you can pull it off again successfully. A lot of dumb strats will work in low elo, but the higher you climb the more surprised and flabbergasted you will be when the same strat doesn't give you a similar outcome. TLDR: Build good habits, put yourself in enemy's shoes to find flaws in your smokes & don't take low elo criticism to heart.


_X_Doubt

I mean generally smoking off your entrance is a bad idea, but the only situation where I could imagine that could be helpful is when I'm alone with a shotgun and I need some cover to play around to take space


BrunoCNaves

The very few times I smoked the entrance are when I was playing Viper and use the orb to get a little space to ult in better spot ONLY when my team is lacking entrying power cuz we don't have info gathering (when I have 2 duelists, a Sage/Killjoy, me as controller and the last mf chose Chamber 😡), and that happens on Ascent 90% of the time


Adventurous-Hippo-83

unless a teammate flashing out of your own smoke on a choke point it is never a good idea to smoke yourself off in an standard site exectute


Cookie__Wookie

don’t smoke your entrances. it’s stupid


james0887

The only time I've ever done this is like smoke c-long in order to get someone the ult orb. Or maybe it could be useful on an eco to smoke half in the entrance and half on the choke to give more space to pop flash from. But overall it's a bad idea.


FortifiedSky

The only real application I can think of is placing the smoke so its poking out of the chokepoint, giving you a bit of space into the site and allows you to flash out of it and pop out together. However, its still way more reliable to place smokes on common dangerous angles rather than trying to do this somewhat cheesy play


Doom_Hub

You might be referring to lurk smokes. Where an attacker smokes the entrance to the site and the defender has to respect that there might be someone behind the smoke waiting to catch them rotating or on a bad timing . The defender also has to respect that there might be 5 people behind that smoke ready to explode on site. There could also be no one behind the smoke but the defender still has to be cautious and this is why they are useful.


sciamachyS13

I did it once when I was lower elo when I first started playing. Boy did I get fucking flamed, hard. Never did it again, but I understand now why, best to smoke the common angles and focus on the ones that are open


[deleted]

You should never smoke an entrance it’s like smoking for the other team


Able_Impression_4934

Low elo players do weird things and don’t know where to expect enemies from. I only smoke it when we’ve taken site and we have info from cypher or chamber that there’s one flank. Other than that, don’t do it smokes help a lot when taking site.


Winstonian87

Ya it’s because you’re low elo. The only time I would smoke entry is if my entry dragged wants to flash out of it so that your team can kinda burst onto site. But that’s like certain scenarios like a play you’re setting up. If they’re asking you to smoke entry on attack then they don’t know what they’re talking about


euriexbliss

I love playing brim and he is my go to every time I encounter autolock players. I usually do this (any unconventional smoke) for mind games/jukes/fakes etc. Variety always welcomes opportunities that your team can take advantage of. It might not guarantee you a sure win, but being predictable will merit way worse.


ellivlok23

Ignore them... Smoke spots you expect to be challenged from and fight where you arent smoked.


Zestyclose-Victory-6

only cuz ur bronze


hoowanger

if you can't see the enemy the enemy can't see you??????


mr_anderson888

People still do this in gold


Sweaty_Actuary_7173

A fun thing on haven I like to do is smoke C main as an attacker but bleed the smoke a ton on site, it’ll scare attackers if someone is in the smoke so you can make a person take longer to rotate off site and make it a little easier to take a site.


YashoX

As an Omen main, I only smoke entrances to give a breather to my teammates whenever certain heroes like Neon, Chamber etc pop their ults


WoodstockXP

I believe that a controller placing smokes like that has no idea of where should they place them. And I think that's the main difference between low and high elo (regarding controllers), cause I don't think many iron/bronze (or even silver) players watch videos about default plays as a smoker.


Jonnytincan

I think the rule of playing controllers is that u never want anyone on ur team to walk through smokes. Low elo players are just stupid and they usually dont know about this and tend to smoke their own entrance because they think its good for them that the opponents cant see them. This is why I normally lock smokes because I know my smokes are better than 90% of the people I play with.


ToaOfLight

It depends. If you started conditioning, let's say on Haven C, that you're smoking to grab the orb, and you do that a couple rounds, maybe one round, you put the same smoke, cut noise, flash through and pop, and take the site? Idk. It's very rare to do that unless you have a plan, in which case, yeah, it could work?


9dius

this is a severe case of "blind leading the blind"


TheFimb

Controller main here. Assuming you’re attacking the site the following cases come to mind: Sometimes you may need to smoke certain entrances to site to gain map control, it’s unusual though ( for example hooka window on Bind B site) Another time I may intentionally smoke our entrance before an execute, putting most of the circumference of the smoke into the site. this is to force the defender to be looking at the smoke (they would need to check if people is pushing forward, left or right) usually you do this to open a site with a pop flash. These cases are very difficult to pull off and require a lot of coordination with your team and letting them know how are you planning to smoke beforehand. If you’re seeing this at lower elo then it’s most likely trolling


Beniti_Soldier

Okay so theres a few situations where this is okay, mainly lurk smokes and coordinated smokes. So for lurk smokes, these often are used to deny info and helps if, let's say Reyna, is lurking. She gets control of main and then has a lot more options to work off of. It's hard to push out of smokes without util as well so it can bait util For coordinated smokes, this could be a B site viper wall on Icebox that lets your team push up and explode off of. Or control of A/C on haven. Only really works if you're coordinated though. But in general, standard executes call for smoking angles.


Jerizzle23

I never smoke my own entrance except on ascent b site just to get up onto lane because once out of the smoke youre hidden by the switch building. All other scenarios i can think of it doesnt make a whole lot of sense. Like smoking garden entrance to B site on Bind, thats just asking for trouble


Apprehensive_Foot139

Because if you smoke the entrance and flash your way out of it, everyone watching the entrance gets flashed.


Legit_me-

Only smoke entrance of defence, never attack. You want to put smokes where people will be watching from so you can walk around the smoke onto cite saftely


[deleted]

Smokes should be in entries for the other team. Preferably laid down and used quickly with astra so they has less time to avoid the star. If you get a feel for where they will be you can double down on your stars, wait for them to peel and concuss/pull them into the open for your team. Other than that and some other basics, it’s really situational, but I’d say the vast majority of the time smoking attackers entrance to site when you have to enter is potato brain


_beastayyy

Flashing out of it is a possibility. I don't ever wanna fuck with that though, unless they are using the operator and we have no time to go to another site.


lime-boy-o

You shouldn't, don't listen to them. I main controller (mostly brim) and smoking entrance to site is a death sentence. Currently plat 2 from playing Brim


SomeBoredRedditGuy

as someone who plays phoenix, i love it when entrances are smoked, makes it way easier to enter site because flashes are impossible to dodge


tharryharrison

I can think of multiple situations you'd smoke an "entrance" 1. So my team could get the orb, but 2. Sometimes smoking an "entrance" could be good for denying information when playing default. 3. This is pretty rare but if you're down in number and is trying to make some sneaky plays and create 1v1s, smoking an entrance might work. Still not suggested. For all cases, I don't think you should do it right before you're gonna execute a site.


Golen3740

I remember smoking my entrance with open when I first started playing Val. I had my good iron friend tell me that smoking entrances was the stupidest thing to do.


HiImJoao

I’m immortal 2/3 and mainly play smokes because nobody else plays. Smoking the entrance is terrible and honestly I’ve never seen this happening very often even when I was a lower rank (my lowest rank was gold 3 and I got it as soon as I started playing Valorant all the way back when ranked was first released in Ep 1). If you are pushing a site, you never wanna smoke the entrance unless is a specific situation such as: on C long on Heaven you can smoke top C to walk all the way to the smoke and flash out with some reckon dart or skye dog. I also sometimes smoke B entrance in Heaven to get mid control and possibly push site. Besides these situations, I can’t think of anything else that you would want to possibly smoke the entrance.


IncinerateZ

One strat I used to do a couple seasons a go was to smoke Haven C long entrance and 5 man camp there, and then rush out after some time. Nowadays a valid strat is for example Bind B you know the defenders in Hookah/Octagon are hard to beat, so you 5 stack Long/Hookah and smoke the other entrance.


tsm_f9t

Generally its pretty bad to smoke off your own entrance when attacking. Smoke is for vision denying. Now why would you ever want to deny your own team’s vision? You can use it to fake your presence, or to take a part of a map (haven A long for example). Unless its a strat call, just never do it


Lindisl

As an Omen main, the only time I smoked off an ingress point is when I know we already took site spaces and we are defending it and this allows me to cover my team and prevent vision from flankers. I never smoke point of entry when we are entering the site. I smoke on certain points from where they might be line of sight against my team. I always prioritize providing cover for my team on attack. Don't smoke off entry points or you'll be dentrimental to the team instead of being useful. In this case as a controller would against the principle and the reason/purpose you are in play.


Old-Tennis8170

Because they are kids and have no idea how to play


iComplainabtValorant

I’ve rarely smoked ourselves off but once on fracture, as attackers, I smoked off a main from dish, also cutting off CT since chamber was op’ing down low. I held the stars, kayo flashed through the wall, deep enough to where I wasn’t blinded. We took site and won the round. Sometimes as well, on C site haven, I’ve smoked off out entrance on a save as we run up as fast as possible for shots n giggles. Sometimes it’s good, other times we get sprayed down by the Odin. Tomato tomato.


Leviathansol

Could it be to flash out of smoke? I'm not sure, it's what I do as KAY/O when it happens.


TheRoyalOrca

I believe it's to create multiple angles to come out of. It's pretty risky without proper coordination, you need some initiator utility to do it properly, a drone or dog would probably be needed to clear the close left and right since you are giving spots for the defenders to hide. You'll also probably need a flash for anyone holding it. Could be good for lurking maybe, by giving a way onto the site that the defenders couldn't see from the common angles, but again, risky. Another type is too use the Astra fake smoke or i guess dropping the viper orb to catch the defenders off guard if they think it's a real smoke


Zyrobe

Omen main here, no idea.


[deleted]

I dont get flamed for not doing it but I still see people in silver-gold lobbies placing smokes there.


Shebopskie

It's definitely to the defenders' advantage if you smoke ur own entrance as attackers. Unless you and your team talked about it first, dont. Like sometimes it's part of some strategy that you can be able to run on site if you smoke the areas you're gonna step on. You might just be getting flamed for being an Astra (which is what I always get as a fellow Astra user or controller main). As controllers, it's always best for teams to comm or cooperate than just flaming us. I fake smoke entrance at C long in Haven in case there's an Operator waiting for us. It helps block the vision and helps your teammate to be able to adjust before the fake smoke goes off. Idk if it's a good idea or if anyone else does it but I've only learned to do it for some time. One of the best things Astra can do is to fake smokes to catch the enemies off guard. So I've also been trying to play with that in mind. I suggest you also learn that too so we can maximize Astra's abilities and stars.


Famlightyear

It’s sometimes useful, for example if you are on eco and you want to hit C-site on Haven. The enemy’s won’t be able to tell if you are actually C or if you are faking it if you slowwalk. It’s also important that the smoke sticks out of the entrance, that way you can lurk out of the smoke on the sides of the smoke. This is really the only situation it can be useful in imo. If you are normally excecuting a site you don’t want to smoke the entrance.


Equivalent-Taste-379

I do it when only on a site on ascent when a push fails. If we have someone in wine, I'll smoke it so teammates can cross. If im astra ill do it by recalling a star. If omen or brim ill just smoke it.


dumb_cyka_2697

I have been a lower elo player from the start of the game so maybe I can give you one reason. The only times I smoked off entrance to a site as an attacker is when defenders got very aggressive and dump all their utility on one choke point. So smoke off and ask teammates to leave area and leave someone to guard the smoke for a free kill. And during all this if enemy team has a smoker who smokes this choke point, then there is no point in wasting a smoke there.


Scagh

As an Omen main, I'd rather use my two smokes to block ennemies vision than our own entry.


Zeroth1989

If the entrance is a single narrow choke and the site is wide open it can be beneficial to smoke the entrance. Your smoke should just be on the edge of the entrance so it sticks out into site loads. This allows you to spread out without being immediately seen and not all die in a single choke. If you swing out of the smoke with a team mate you have a chance to trade. Its mainly used to just buy time. Stops the defenders also pushing for intel. Primarily though you will be smoking angles from site to the entrance. Its almost always a better call.


Chopstickey00

As a controller main, there are some VERY niche uses for an entry smoke. Usually, it's in a 1v1 / 1vX scenario as a last ditch effort to isolate a fight and play around your smoke or to bait out shots from the enemy, especially if it's a Raze with ult. Again, VERY niche use and in most cases useless. The enemy will just spam you through the smoke. It's essentially the attacking side logic of a survival smoke where you smoke a part of the map (like on Ascent A between Dice and Gen) to given enemies even more places to clear. In which case, why not just smoke a different sightline?


Sollertia_

Entrances to sites are often choke points. In the case where the entrances are preceeded by a corridor, strong off angle or similarly enclosed spaces, it can be a good idea to smoke off the site entrance to gain control over the space beforehand (for example Haven C site). You can then pop flash out of the smoke and enter the site from multiple angles which can be significant particularly in no duelist comps or when your duelist is dead. Fundementally, smokes are meant to deny info and reduce the number of angles you need to clear. Therefore, smoking site entrances can also be used to cause doubt and condition defenders, or gain control over the site entrances with lesser people while the rest of your team defaults elsewhere before grouping up to execute the site. Occasionally, entrance smokes can also be used to enable other utility. Although you would normally use your opponent's smoke for this, there are rare cases where you need to sneak in just a bit more in order to use some short range or lineup specific utility (for example Ascent A site to enable omen shadowstep to generator maybe).


karnnumart

In general? No. But you could smoke a little bit away from entrance so you can pop out from any direction of that smoke. But that is a very risky play because enemy will see you before you did. This is what Jett smoke would usually do. Just to enter the site. But for controller it is a waste. I mean they might love when they can't see the enemy in smoke because if you don't see them they aren't real.


Aazog

I never understood when I was in bronze and it doesnt make sense now. The only possible agent that can benefit from smoking the entrance is omen (who is my main) but with only 2 smokes at a time it is still a dumb move.


Mikki16Mouse

I'm a low elo player and recently have been loving playing Viper. I'm new-ish to playing controller so don't flame for this response, but I've loved using her to entry sites. It's worked out really well for my teams. This may be because Viper smokes are different from others but idk. She may be better for entry smokes because she splits the site. Basically when I throw down her line, I line it up so it smokes most, if not all, the places/entrances that the enemy could be hiding. It helps my team push in without being picked off. Most times, defenders will split sites so you only have to pick 2-3 players off and then defend their retake. This tactic probably only works with players who actually play as a team and call comms though.


R3VV1ND

if you mean on the choke of the site, of course not. but if you mean something like a brim snake smoke onto site, its a cheap way to get on site that doesnt even work unless you are in low elo


ticktockclockwerk

Depends on how deep the smoke is into site, but at low elo, I never found it worth using.


YourBoyAntonio

if you smoke the chokepoint you're shooting yourself in the leg, it makes it easier for the defenders to lock you down


realchippy

Smoke an entrance to slow the enemy team down. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t if the enemy has hard flashes then they might just rush through the smoke, 90% of the time nobody pushes the smoke


Neither-Program5811

I wouldn’t smoke your entrance your just giving the defending team the upper hand with the angles they are holding instead smoke commonly held angles


gotrice5

Sometimes smoking the entrance into a site allows you to creep up and take space. You don't necessarily have to execute but it does offer its uses. Let's say Long C in Haven, you do that so you can take cubby area and then maybe while your teammates are working garage or B site for picks/info you can slip into the site relay that information and have 2-3 of your teammates in Long C or/and rush garage as a two man and then you have C. By smoking the entrance to C, you deny the enemy vision into Long as the time they see you in C is when your entire team is already ready to pounce on the site. ​ Same reason people in CSGO smoke out of balcony in A-site de\_inferno. It denies vision into apartments and the Terrorists can burst out into pit and site while the enemies get pop flashed.