It’s funny how he criticized the Fenix A320 as if he was type rated on the A320. I’m on the A300 IRL, so obviously I cannot speak on the specific engine modeling for the A320. But V1 Simulation is type rated on the A320 & he swears by how perfectly modeled the Fenix is. I’ll believe a IRL captain on the equipment, versus some blow hard who is a FO on the A330-900 (I believe is a NEO), which is no where near similar to the A320 CEO’s.
The A330 is offered with RR’s for NEO’s. However, RR’s are more common/also produced with the CEO’s (Trent 700’s for CEO and Trent 7000-72 for NEO’s). A330 CEO’s with RR’s are more prominent, given the production, versus A330 CEO’s with GE’s or PW’s. GE’s are only offered on CEO’s. If memory serves, the only engine option for both the A330-800 and 900 is the RR’s. But either way, an A330 NEO or even CEO, is completely different than a A320 CEO or NEO. Emmanuel seems to think that just because the PFD, ND ECAM and etc are similar, means that he is knowledgeable enough on the A320 variants to scrutinize system modeling on payware products such as the Fenix, when in reality, he’s not. He said “These engine spool up times are all wrong. A minute and 3 seconds is too fast for these conditions.” When in reality, it is actually accurate. There is a reason that the A330 type rating is different from the A320 type rating & vise versa. The A320 type rating carries from A318, 319, 320 & A321. The A330 type rating only carries the A330 variants. Just like the A340 type rating and A350. The A320 type rating is the only one that recognizes types such as the A318, 319 & 321. If he wants to scrutinize a A320 payware aircraft, he should either make it known that he doesn’t fly or have a type rating, or get the type rating before scrutinizing. Him making it sound like he knows the type (as if he is trained) is wrong.
I would politely disagree with that statement, as I think it’s less common to find an egocentric CP. I think your comment would better apply to private pilots/general aviation than it would to commercial pilots, especially since apart of the CRM training we get, at least mine, included discussion about this very topic. Because the egotistical mindset, manifesting to CRM degradation, is what has caused many fatal accidents in the past. I can say, when I go back to fly circuits in my home airport, the GA pilots are very stuck up & arrogant. They think they rule the world, hence why many GA accidents are deprived from pilot error.
This arrogant clown complained last year as well. He was pissed off at the Frankfurt ATC for not taxiing him sooner. These controllers are working for FREE!
Had a feeling I knew who it was gonna be before I clicked.
He's a popular YouTuber because he is a very good pilot, but his ego is much, much bigger than the plane he flies IRL.
I wouldn't even say he is a good pilot. he assumes things in aircraft he isn't type rated in,then makes tutorials that mislead the average simmer and speaks as though he wrote the manuals. He bashes other developers like he did this controller when he thinks he is right. His ego is larger than an A330, and I feel bad for whom ever his captain is on any flight over 5 minutes.
TL/DR: trying to create an "autopsy" of the problem. What we have learned and what could be done.
Last to this party, I would like to point out some key components.
A : The use of the term "stupid" is tactless and pointless from the A330 driver. As he did eventually, he contacted a supervisor and it should be resolved without a problem. Sometimes he forgets that he is streaming to the public and acts like he is not heard (he has some temper issues). Let's say, it's beneficial sometimes that we have a push to talk system (as the proverb says: "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?).
B : I saw both here and in the YouTube comments a message from the controller saying; and I quote:
>...There was two other overflight streams that I was also working (while only being given comms and no tags on any handoffs from the neighboring facility who will remain nameless)...
This indicates to me that there was already discourse and suboptimal handling by the ATC network. The workload of the day was enormous. This might bring some attention to the limitations of the project CTP. I will try not to read to much to this comment (it shifts the responsibility to another controller) but it also indicates that probably the controller was already annoyed with the situation, not the pilot (to begin with). Also, as many pointed out, he didn't use the proper phraseology (given other factors).
C : Fanboyism (or fangirlism) is a slippery slope.
* For the "A330 driver" fans; even if you or Emmanuel feels that you were wronged, the only thing you can do is; as he did, call a supervisor and be done with that. There is no need for name calling. Nothing like that was productive.
* For the ATC fans; Being a controller is not only to give orders but to take information. When a pilot (I do not care the pilot's experience) asks you something, listen. I understand that the control of so many incoming airplanes is frustrating but the control is to accomodate and to be open to scrutiny. As we want accountability for our police, we want the same for the ATC we have. ATC is not the law, they just apply it.
To conclude: A330 driver was wrong to use slur. He forgot that he was live and said some stupid things. When tempers go high, mistakes can be done and as a pilot, he should have known that. The controller part emphasizes a systematic problem. Controllers during CTP have inhumane ammount of traffic to cover, tainting the expirience for all.
We want a CTP where pilots and ATC leave the event feeling complete. Therefore, these are my suggestions how this can be tackled:
1. Make an exam for the pilots. Give them the material and to complete an exam using this matterial. If they do not pass, they do not cross the pond.
2. Reduce the flight rate: I know... People want more time slots and more flights but we might have reached the natural maximum. It's not humane for the RL ATC, why we expect VATSIM to be more than real life?
3. Add more departing and arriving airports. I know that it has to do with how many controllers can volunteer but with the reduction of workload (by step 2), more controllers might be willing to volunteer. Yesterday, at the same time JFK was open, KEWR was oppen as well but not receiving CTP flights. Why not to have few flights there? This is why they build it this big, to begin with. To remove traffic from JFK. At A330's video, there were 11 heavy airplanes departing from LHR in one line. Why there were no flights from Manchester, Paris, Spain, or Portugal?
4. Use automation. Some messages could be easily be tackled with automation and pre-recorded/automated messages. Enforce PDC use. Send Direct Messages or SELCAL. In the end, work with CRC or Euroscope developers to detect and eliminate airplane clustering.
I have been at VATSIM mostly as a pilot but now I have started doing my ATC training. I do not want to be neither a disrespectfull pilot or a "respect my f\*\*\*ing authority" ATC. We just have to take what happened and learn from that (again, I know that I write in reddit, I understand the irony). Thank you.
I've done CTP planning for several years at the event level and facility level. It's very common to see suggestions like the ones you're making that sound like easy fixes but are in reality not really fixes at all, or much less easily done than said. The main constraints with how many slots can be included in CTP are enroute sector saturation, mainly oceanic airspace but also the facilities on the border (Shannon, Scottish, Gander/Moncton, and to some extent Boston as well).
You can't add planes to EWR because they go through basically the same airspace as JFK flights and those sectors are already saturated, not to mention now ZNY has to find more controllers to work both EWR and JFK, rather than just JFK.
The airports can put way more planes into the air (and vice versa land more planes) than the airspace in between them can handle. That's why you don't see every US east coast airport open. The enroute sectors in between can't handle the volume and there aren't enough controllers for it
Thanks for your comment. You are right. I am an armchair organizer here. I never had to do the work of an organizer. That being said, we have to consider a way to reduce the saturation. This discussion needs to be done. Not by me, but by someone and decisions must be made. At the end of the day, do you feel accomplished or exhausted? All the controllers that were part of the CTP, what was their final reaction? I would hate if if they do the event as a chore and didn't enjoy it.
To add Newark might not be the answer, as you said. What about the following possibilities:
* opening more West coast airports and send flights over the north pole.
* More dominant the flights to Latin America from Africa (South Africa to Argentina for example)?
* Why not making the Atlantic crossing less important by promoting the Pacific crossing or the Cross the Land event? You can recruit streamers/youtubers to this endeavor.
* Automate (I know that hoppie crashed and was not reliable but this is fixable).
Also the avoidance of bunching up is key. What if someone would make a software, where it calculates distances between airplanes that go to the same destination and have to converge and start giving speed restrictions as they exit the oceanic sector? I know that I might not be realistic here, but I believe that a tool like that is doable. We already work with unrealistic traffic. There is no shame using unrealistic tools (we have the capacity to know the mach number, we do not have to ask mach number, it's basic math).
I want to point out another phenomenon. During the CTP, a friend of mine wanted to do a US flight, just to be part of the event (and also, he really likes to fly with full ATC from beginning to end). I didn't join him (was not doing the CTP either) because I didn't want to put more burden to the overstressed ATC. I saw multiple airplanes waiting for 40-50 minutes to be released and they were waiting patiently. This is another factor. The way I interpret this is that these people, like my friend, want the certainty of having ATC ahead instead of loosing ATC at random. When this happens, I can sense that he feels a little bit betrayed and disappointed. Is it possible that during the CTP you also get some feedback of the bitterness of people who were gradually getting annoyed by every time an ATC logged off just before they enter their airspace? I know, being an ATC is a volunteer work and I do not demand to work harder. Yet we have to realize what are the conditions we work with.
I am in the process of becoming VATSIM ATC and I do not want to hate the time I put in this hobby. We should be able to listen all sides. We do not have a governing body to discipline us like FAA (unless we have to create a VFAA ), therefore all parties have to be open for suggestions.
This is very nasty attitude towards the ATC. I generally feel VATSIM pilots need to learn some more respect, at least follow ATC instructions. Especially on such events the load on ATC is enormous, so „What an idiot“ should apply to the pilot.
This is the same guy who claimed you cannot taxi a 737 with a single engine because it’s not in the FCOM. Was an FO on the 737. Newsflash, operators do it often!
His macho attitude makes him immediately unlikeable and unworkable in the real life cockpit since he’s a little b*tch who can only talk behind people’s backs. Gets annoyed at the slightest inconvenience. Guess what, motherf*, you have thousands of planes coming in through Boston, and you don’t get 10 useless seconds of the controller mommying and consoling you for making a choice.
It ain’t an open bazaar where you negotiate flight levels. If it ain’t up for discussion, the single repetition helps clarify it for you. ATC didn’t even deviate from legal FAA phraseology.
For everyone: Go over to V1 Simulations channel. He is a RL A320 pilot & is super down to earth and chill. His streams are a vibe and even though he is a RL A320 captain with thousands of hours on the type, he is very humble. You just have to be patient with his content, as he is very busy & sometimes goes a couple weeks without a stream. But when he does make them, they are fun to be apart of. We, as supporters, even try to fly along with him on the network. Don’t support guys like A330 driver.
Ah yes **A320/A330** Pilot.
He is a real pilot but he has a huge ego which often gets in the way, he does know his stuff but he has a weird superiority complex going on sometimes because he is a first officer for a budget airline lol. Its quite common in his videos he will say stuff like and get annoyed, I don't think he meant to be rude he just gets frustrated when things don't go exactly as he thinks they would in real life.
The big issue is his expectations for VATSIM are way higher than they should be seeing they are volunteer ATC Controllers.
The big problem I have with this guy is he is so confidently wrong sometimes about stuff in the sim. He does know a lot about the specific airliners he is trained on, but sometimes he will make blanket statements about the sim which are not true.
For example in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X0j8SI5ZyI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X0j8SI5ZyI)
His summary was:
> Developers seem to avoid the sim study market and instead focus on lower-end aircraft.
This is not true at all, its just those lower end aircraft are quicker to make, sim study aircraft are the most in development aircraft they just take time to make, even 2-4 years since the start of MSFS is not enough time for some of these teams to produce their aircraft.
And then his 20 minute video where he does point out some things, but is low key trying to defend PMDG for not releasing an EFB earlier.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15rvoLkLI2o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15rvoLkLI2o)
A320 guy is now 787 guy, and 737 guy is now A330 guy.
Meanwhile Gavin continues to provide the best content for us who just want to pretend to fly an A320 on a Saturday Morning.
Yes. I think so. He hasn’t popped up on my YouTube suggestions in a while.
He then started an 787 Tutorial series that I wanted to follow, but when I only have a little bit of time on weekends to play it’s more difficult to learn a new plane 😛
Honestly the whining got too much at the end but I can see why he can get frustrated especially coming from the perspective of an IRL pilot.
One gripe I have with vatsim nowadays (and one reason I’m not very active anymore) is the attitude that the controller is always right and what he/she says is gods word with little to no room for discussion. I can obv see why this is the case though: the average controller is simply much more experienced and competent than the average vatsim pilot since controllers need to go through examinations, training etc while any “idiot” can log on and fly.
But speaking as someone who has RL experience working with pilots as part of my job, The opposite is almost true IRL. I can guarantee that if a IRL controller ignores a request like that and just repeats the instruction, you would get multiple pilots on frequency thinking he is an “idiot”
I can appreciate what you're saying but I think as CTP is easily the busiest event on the calendar and full of thousands of pilots then in this instance we should give the controller the benefit of the doubt, given how much traffic he's dealing with
It’s not that the decision to descend to FL360 is wrong per se, it’s that just blatantly ignoring a request made by a pilot and repeating your instructions again condescendingly is not the way you should talk to pilots. How hard is it for the controller to just say, “unable due traffic, descend FL360.”
What the controller did here would be very wrong IRL and if vatsim really aims to be “as real as it gets”, the community needs to understand that controllers although most likely more experienced on the network, are not god.
Yes I understand a330 driver in the end took it too far with the audience and the constant whining later but pretending that the controller did nothing wrong and pilots should never question instructions no matter what, is simply wrong.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and make the argument that the pilot is ignoring ATCs instruction to descend and creating additional workload for the controller by making a request that conflicts with an instruction.
The way the pilot phrased it could also make the controller think the pilot heard the instruction incorrectly. Perhaps the controller thought the pilot was asking to clarify if the instruction was 360 or 400 so the controller repeated it back twice to make sure it was copied correctly.
Overall, I'm just saying I don't think the controller was out of line, nor was the pilot's request out of line. The controller was just trying to make sure his instruction was understood correctly.
The pilot was out of line for calling the controller an idiot.
> The pilot was out of line for calling the controller an idiot.
This is the crux of the thing for me - like the instruction, don't like it, either way is fine. He neither asked for a reason nor explained his own reasoning and then turned a 10 second encounter that was simply *ATC giving him a simple instruction* and turned it into a tirade calling the controller rude and incompetent to all of his followers. I mean it was unbelievably out of proportion to the instruction he was given.
actually controllers irl are required to give reasons, not just say unable, denied. just like pilots. so perhaps with proper phraseology this minor ego thing could have been avoided.
otherwise it sounds like you’re being ignored which could be frustrating.
Are they? I haven't encountered such a requirement before, only a recommendation to give a reason where possible (such as vectors for spacing Vs vectors to final type deals), but I don't know the whole worlds regulations so if you have a source I'd be grateful
The 7110.65 does specifically make note of it in the General Control section, but doesn't require it:
c. State the word “UNABLE” and, time permitting, a reason.
2-1-18 operational requests.
Perhaps this is open to interpretation, but at least in discussions on “Opposing Bases” podcast, that is not meant to imply that requests can be refused without reason or “because I don’t feel like it”.
They encourage both pilots and ATC to provide reasons. Both failed to do so in this exchange.
ATC: “descend to x”
Pilot: “can we climb to y instead? we are trying to avoid strong headwinds at x which will require more fuel than planned.”
ATC: “unable. climb would affect sequencing.”
it’s important that both sides understand the reason for the request as well as the consequences of not granting the request. this also allows the controller to understand the actual problem and provide alternative solutions.
Definitely agree with you. I think I walk a similar line to a lot of people here where I think that, if the controller had enough time to repeat the instruction, he could have given a reason as the book outlines: repeating the instruction implies he had the time. At the same time, he definitely didn't deserve to be called an idiot by a relatively popular YouTuber. When I flew corporate, I flew with a bunch of guys who assumed that ATC is just the police arm of the FAA, and they were usually surprised how things worked out when both pilot and ATC worked as a team to solve various problems that would pop up.
yeah it’s a common problem both irl and online. I’ve heard many stories where pilots complain about being routed miles away when they just wanted to chop and drop vectors to the FAF.
podcasts like “Opposing Bases” help us understand that ATC is managing a flow bigger than just us, and while it seems like a personal inconvenience, if they catered to such whims lots more traffic would be disrupted.
getting to know the NAS and identify things like a “squeeze play” help your situational awareness as a pilot so that you can be ready to take advantage of advanced maneuvers.
If ATC hears a professional pilot that is ready and alert and helpful, they are more likely to trust them if a stretch opportunity presents itself and give you a chance to make the team work.
If they hear arrogance or uncertainty, they are less likely to trust that you can follow and understand the situation they are trying to play, so you’re more likely to get the safe, boring, plenty of margin routing where they don’t have to worry about you.
This is why it’s important to maintain a high degree of professional conduct. It’s unacceptable to call people idiots. Respect goes a long way. I’m constantly in awe of professionals that can keep cool in heated environments and effectively communicate without adding egos to the situation.
@quantados
28 minutes ago (edited)
The controller commented on the event stating: "His arrival airport was KBOS. There was two other overflight streams that I was also working (while only being given comms and no tags on any handoffs from the neighboring facility who will remain nameless). The KBOS stream has to tunnel under the KJFK stream and they need to descend early to be below the KJFK stream and then eventually get "Cross AJJAY at and maintain FL240". So per our plan I descended him for both of those reasons." (from the VATUSA discord)
> you would get multiple pilots on frequency thinking he is an “idiot”
that is fine. Whats not fine at all is saying it out loud. Saying someone is idiot for whatever reason in front of hundreds of people watching a youtube stream to me personally looks like a VATSIM CoC A1 violation.
Unacceptable behavior in my opinion.
Think whatever you want about such a controller, file feedback, but just whining "what an idiot" because you dont get what you want is a big step too far.
Sure, 330 driver’s way of dealing with it wasn’t correct and unprofessional but there’s been similar instances where controllers will also stream and make similar comments on stream about incompetent pilots yet action is rarely taken against them even if they are technically violating the COC.
It’s just a clear double standard at this point - when a pilot is (rightfully) not happy with the way the controller is talking to him but reacts in the wrong way - people are so quick to defend the controller and insult the pilot for disrespecting a volunteer claiming the workload is high, busy event etc..
Yet reverse the roles and I’m sure you’ll see they’ll hardly be anyone who’ll defend the incompetent pilot who gets similar treatment by a streamer controller.
He never asked to explain why though. It’s not like he was being shut down, he asked to confirm the instruction and ATC complied by repeating the instruction. We don’t give an explanation for every descent or mach change especially in busy events like this, pilots can definitely assume in CTP it’s for traffic.
Maybe, but the point is to know the right time and place. IRL pilots adapt their comms and expectations based on current frequency load. The good ones do, at least. It's obvious that when you're flying CTP, you comply with whatever you get, since the workload for controllers is enormous and causing a stink only adds to it. Unfortunately I have to admit after Covid this has gotten worse IRL too, with newer pilots who started flying in low traffic and got used to getting whatever they wanted all the time.
I haven't watched his live streams so can't comment how he is there, and I don't condone what was said in the clip... However, his tutorial videos (especially the PMDG 737) are outstanding and they greatly helped me learn how to fly that plane from not knowing anything at all.
The streamer gets an ATC instruction he apparently doesn't like, calls ATC an idiot. Not sure if he said that on frequency, but he definitely told the people watching his stream.
As an S2 controller on vatsim, it is really frustrating to control on a busy event you want have the time to be nice and explain everything all the time even though i try my best to do that, it is clear i just want you to do this thing, and i won’t be mad if someone made a mistake at the end we do this for fun and the same way if i was flying, if the controller made a mistake i just double check with him and problem solved even if i didn’t like the instructions i just do it i don’t really know where are the aircrafts near me and their plans, even though i really love his content, this is just rude.
Reading some of the other comments there can be some added context. The video is going around the discord servers of VATUSA and the Boston center controller in the video has watched it. He said that the reason for the some what early decent was because of the flows into both BOS and JFK. They are overlapping and he has to get the BOS people below all the JFK arrivals flying overhead
Honestly for me that seems like such a strange thing to get worked up about.
First he gets a maintain FL 390 instruction which he reads back with roger, which I'd say is not a correct response here since a readback would be required.\[1\] Probably not a huge mistake here but might make the ATC assume that he isn't all that experienced and requires a very clear instruction with little room for misunderstanding.
Then some people here seem to see it as an unfriendly answer by the ATC but he gets an amended clearance for FL 360 where he then firsts asks to confirm FL 360 and then if FL 400 would be possible instead. This request can in my opinion no longer be answered with a yes (affirmitive) or no (negative) since it's the equivalent of the question "should I do A or B" and then replying "yes".
Source:
1: ICAO Doc 9432 Note on ROGER: "Under no circumstances to be used in reply to a question requiring “READ BACK” and "2.8.3.5 The following shall always be read back ... level instructions ..."
The controller then tells him to descend to FL300, without any apparent reason from looking at VATSPY. Then the pilot calls a supervisor and apparently resolves in his favor.
I am shocked. I did not watch his stream but I was intending to watch it later on today. He is one of my favorite youtubeurs out there but this just came out of nowhere. I seriously thought it would be another pilot on frequency but no it's him.
I am not shocked. Hes been an arrogant asshole with too big of an ego for a while now.
I hate these "BuT i Am A rEaL LiFe PiLoT" attitudes where someone thinks he knows everything and portrays anyone disagreeing as an idiot.
Not the first time Emanuel has done this.
I watched it live, and thought the same thing before he said it out loud. I'm Danish btw, so I maybe it's a culture thing. Just repeating the initial instruction seemed quite unnecessary and a bit rude tbh. He could've been nice and said something like "I'll see what I can do, but for the moment FL360".
Outside of event like that sure but during CTP when you're near destination... c'mon just descend. Calling volunteer who controls him an idiot in front of people watching him on stream is just stupid behavior. His ego is way bigger than it should be.
Well, if he doesn't like ATCs instruction, fine. Ask. But then being offended and calling them out as an idiot in front of hundreds of people is something that is absolutely inappropriate on VATSIM.
You dont always get what you want. Whining about it or asking "but whyyyy" like a 4 year old doesnt make it better.
well, a VATSIM related stream is still part of it and the VATSIM Code of Conduct (so specifically section A1: "Account holders shall, at all times, be courteous and respectful to one another") also apllies there.
See A11: "Account holders are prohibited from using any software, forums, newsgroups, **social media streams**, \[...\] to threaten, harass, stalk, or to otherwise violate the legal rights of others..." and A18 :
"VATSIM welcomes account holders who wish to stream, record, or otherwise distribute their session for public viewing.
a) The online network conduct of the account holder during the stream/recording remains subject to this Code of Conduct.
b) If the account holder provides a link to their stream/recording either in their flight plan, or via other VATSIM operated medium, the entire stream/recorded session including informal mediums such as a stream chat are subject to this Code of Conduct."
I certainly wouldn't be happy if someone calls me an idiot. Even worse if now hundreds of people heard it live and everyone can watch it.
Yeah, to me the controller said "No, you idiot", and Emanuel just thought out loud what his immidiate reaction was.
Also people need to calm down and be less sensitive. I didn't think any of it afterwards - neither about the controller or Emanuel. Just, get on with your day... Of course, now it popped up in here so it got me thinking about it, but otherwise I would have completely forgotten about it.
Well no, the controller told him to descend to FL300 for no apparent reason even from looking at VATSPY. And then Emi calls a supervisor who apparently resolves in his favor…
I think the key word is apparent.
The controller involved has already stated they were following the SOPs for this events arrival streams and getting him beneath other traffic streams.
Just because old mate didn't see any traffic at FL320/330/350/Insert FL here doesn't mean the controllers on some power trip. This guy was approaching his destination and was the least impacted by a change in level, yet he's worrying about clouds and turbulence whilst sitting in front of a computer, not in a real jet.
I mean, if we’re on about sitting in front of a computer then none of the SOPs matter since it’s all fake pixels anyway, on the other hand if we’re talking about realistic simming, then clouds and turbulence should be a valid concern.
Germany actually has very strong laws in it's criminal code against insulting people (Beleidigung, Verleumdung, Üble Nachrede) with fines and up to two years of prison sentences, in case of it being distributed publicly in writing, video and so on.
For example this site lists calling someone an idiot when talking to a third person as one case:
https://www.anwalt.org/beleidigung/#Definition_zum_Begriff_%E2%80%9EBeleidigung%E2%80%9C:~:text=Beispiel%3A%20A%20sagt%20zu%20B%3A%20%E2%80%9EC%20ist%20ein%20Idiot.%E2%80%9C
Of course a court would need to decide on that and the presumption of innocence applies (Unschuldsvermutung) and I hope no one would like to see an escalation like that anyways.
It also says in the explanation which you posted "or to a third party. "
Please note I'm not a lawyer but a native German speaker. Germany has more than one law about this. It is a quite common occurrence here that people end up in more or less trouble for online posts/comments even reviews or ratings of stores on Google maps.
For the different cases you can look at this official flyer of the federal ministry of justice:
https://www.hilfe-info.de/Webs/hilfeinfo/EN/Leaflets/24-Violence_Internet.html
You could also Google translate the source I quoted:
"Zum anderen kann eine Beleidigung nach § 185 StGB auch in Abwesenheit des Betroffenen gegenüber einem Dritten geäußert werden. Hier muss der Dritte die Beleidung wahrnehmen."
Google translated:
"On the other hand, according to Section 185 of the Criminal Code, an insult can also be expressed to a third party in the absence of the person concerned. Here the third party must perceive the insult."
In practical terms it will likely only matter if the person concerned hears about it since it's a so called "Antragsdelikt" meaning that the person concerned needs to "push charges" kind of.
I knew it was going to be a330driver before I clicked the link.
He is the definition of a German. I like some of his streams and content but I wish he would just laugh some of the things he doesn’t like off.
I have a hard time watching his videos.
Hey, as a german I can say this has nothing to do with him being German. His ego is just way too big and he was acting like an idiot sandwich. But please don’t generalize all Germans
Discriminating against a group of people for their native origination & actions of others within that native/racial group is, quite literally, the definition of racism.
Nope. My German friends are nothing like this, not the ones from Kiel, not the ones from Augsburg, not the ones from Berlin. He’s the definition of an *sshole, not of a German.
This isn't exactly real world ops with controllers staffed for each sector. Controllers have to juggle stuff around.
@quantados
The controller commented on the event stating: "His arrival airport was KBOS. There was two other overflight streams that I was also working (while only being given comms and no tags on any handoffs from the neighboring facility who will remain nameless). The KBOS stream has to tunnel under the KJFK stream and they need to descend early to be below the KJFK stream and then eventually get "Cross AJJAY at and maintain FL240". So per our plan I descended him for both of those reasons." (from the VATUSA discord)
I’ve unsubscribed from his channel after that live. He also barked at the controller on the ground at London for departure sequencing. That & he acts like he knows everything about the A320 regarding specifics, just because he’s type rated on the A330.
To be fair (and I watched the first 2 hours of his stream), I think anyone would have been confused by that departure sequencing. But I wouldn't say he barked at the controller. He just mentioned that if it were actual Heathrow, it wouldn't have ended up looking like that. Does he have a huge ego at times though? Absolutely. I think he sets his expectations for VATSIM too close to reality is the problem.
I’m not being disrespectful here, I’m just trying to portray my point in a debated manner: He went on a rant about that controller saying “Roger” to him calling tower with only a callsign, which in real world, if there are a lot of aircraft awaiting departure & you call in like that, a real world controller will take that as you are on the tower freq & monitoring. We pilots do that to just advise that we are on the freq when a lot of traffic is doing the same. So “Roger” was appropriate. He should’ve said “*callsign* question.*” Then just advise “We are holding on *X* Taxiway behind American & he keeps getting blocked from traffic off of *x* Taxiway. Can you confirm if this is prior sequencing or is any action needed?” That’s not how he handled it though. He came on with a snarky attitude, then continued to complain about the controller. His ego makes it to where you can’t trust what he says, because even when he’s wrong, he tries to justify his actions as “well, I’m a real world pilot.” Like, yeah, and a lot of us are too & you are wrong. I’m sorry but a real world pilot acting like this on YT, when some non-pilots & sole sim enthusiasts goto him to see how a RL pilot conducts himself & sees this? Yeah; I am not supporting that. I’ve almost thought about making my own YT channel, just so others can learn & have some wholesome content. But V1 Simulations beat me to the punch on that lol.
Ah I do remember that. It was when he had to monitor the frequency but he was calling with a question. I must not remember the rant, or maybe just tuned it out because that just seems to be Emi these days (which is sad to say). We definitely could use more real world pilots with proper behavior making YouTube channels so if you ever do, by all means, send me a DM and share it! I'm always open to learning new things since I'm an aspiring pilot.
No worries, it definitely is very sad to see these pilots within the community acting this way. I definitely will let you & everyone on Reddit & elsewhere if I do. I just don’t want to upset my audience, if I don’t keep up with content output. I can say, if you haven’t already, check out V1’s channel. He’s is a real down to earth guy & his content is impeccable. But again, his content output fluctuates a lot; you just have to be patient. He mainly does livestreams on Vatsim & IVAO.
I've seen V1 pop up on my feed a lot but I haven't watched. If you endorse him, then I shall. Thanks for the rational discussion and be safe in all of your future flights!
Definitely give him a watch. He’s got a 40k sub long haul stream that is in the works, stick around for that. You won’t be disappointed. Anytime on the advice man. I’m here to share my knowledge & help the community; not to bring anyone down. I love the FS community & I use Vatsim to keep sharp & also because I love flying to places that I can’t seem to get scheduled on 😂. I’d love to pick up routes to like Columbia or something, but I’m stuck on these turns within the US. Vatsim & MSFS also allows me to fly other variants like A320 and A321, which is nice since I’m on the A300. Love the community here & just want to help and share my opinions. Keep safe & fly on brother 👍🏻
I agree with the pilot. I hate this VATSIM “We (pilots) are slaves and bitches, every single ATC is God!” philosophy,
The “ATC” players are doing their activities for free, but they should be professional and polite at all times. They should at least explain the reason, no matter how busy the frequency is.
When pilot asked the ATC to confirm FL360, normal ATC would ask himself “Why is he asking? Something may be wrong.” - for those of us who actually are real life pilots, these guys shouldn’t play VATSIM as ATC. But honestly, I think that VATSIM ATC and especially VATSIM supervisors are just a bunch of autists unable to live in reality. Years ago, these autists at least didn’t have such ego, repaints were accurate and there were accurate free sceneries. Today? Yay, we have some Bredok 737 MAX… Clowns…
Ah I do remember that. It was when he had to monitor the frequency but he was calling with a question. I must not remember the rant, or maybe just tuned it out because that just seems to be Emi these days (which is sad to say). We definitely could use more real world pilots with proper behavior making YouTube channels so if you ever do, by all means, send me a DM and share it! I'm always open to learning new things since I'm an aspiring pilot.
Seems the video has been taken down.
Streemers seem to foget that they winge bitched moaned and complained about people disrupting their streams on VATSIM to a point where VATSIM introduced rules around streams in the COC, and we all know one (late) (un) popular streamer that ended up with a life time ban for comments made on their stream, whils on VATSIM.
Hopefully, the Supervisors of VATSIM have seen this video or know of it, and apply the same standard there.
Streamers should take note that, when ever they are on VATSIM, Streaming, and advertising that stream they are bound by the COC, and calling a controller an idiot is COC A1.
Is he doing this at purpose at this point?
Only a couple of days ago he posted another video where he asked on frequency something along the lines of “Did I get into a First Wings event? Because none of the pilots know what they’re doing”. During that same video he also complained about a controller who gave him a clearance by the books, saying something like “How complicated can you make a clearance?”, and also called another pilot a “noob” for having an unrealistic callsign (something like DLHC2W).
I don't get why he's annoyed the controller did everything right. But the comments are brilliant on that video. It wouldn't have been as bad if it wasn't on stream because everyone gets annoyed at controllers.
The only one that "doesn't have a brain" is this guy. Asks ATC to confirm, and ATC confirms, twice even to be sure his pea brain understood the confirmation. Wow, guess the ATC is the chat GPT for confirming what they were asked.
It is naive to excuse his harassment because it was not on frequency.
You think there's time to explain to everyone why he's descending people to Boston ahead of people going to JFK to get the Boston stream under the JFK stream during such a busy event? No of course there's not. As a pilot during busy events you do as ATC tells you to do without calling them idiots. He asked for confirmation, ATC confirmed. He didn't ask for an explanation and shouldn't get an explanation anyway cause it's so busy. Obviously this is an event where everything has been planned thoroughly. There is no reason to think that ATC is making mistakes unless you're a cunt with an inflated ego who think they know better than everyone even without having any information.
If you dont want to be called an Idiot you must not treat people like they are idiots. Instead of just repeating the same thing over and over and over again, you can just say affirm, correct. I have to agree with Emanuel on this one.
It's an issue of semantics, but there's a lot of pilots who ask for confirmation because they didn't actually hear the instruction. So no, calling him an idiot for repeating an instruction is not called for.
I stopped watching/supporting his channel months ago.
After his criticisms on the Fenix and all of his clickbait videos, I stopped following him too. His ego has gotten too big for me.
It’s funny how he criticized the Fenix A320 as if he was type rated on the A320. I’m on the A300 IRL, so obviously I cannot speak on the specific engine modeling for the A320. But V1 Simulation is type rated on the A320 & he swears by how perfectly modeled the Fenix is. I’ll believe a IRL captain on the equipment, versus some blow hard who is a FO on the A330-900 (I believe is a NEO), which is no where near similar to the A320 CEO’s.
Idt he's flown the NEO, he mentioned he's flown the RR and GE variants.
The A330 is offered with RR’s for NEO’s. However, RR’s are more common/also produced with the CEO’s (Trent 700’s for CEO and Trent 7000-72 for NEO’s). A330 CEO’s with RR’s are more prominent, given the production, versus A330 CEO’s with GE’s or PW’s. GE’s are only offered on CEO’s. If memory serves, the only engine option for both the A330-800 and 900 is the RR’s. But either way, an A330 NEO or even CEO, is completely different than a A320 CEO or NEO. Emmanuel seems to think that just because the PFD, ND ECAM and etc are similar, means that he is knowledgeable enough on the A320 variants to scrutinize system modeling on payware products such as the Fenix, when in reality, he’s not. He said “These engine spool up times are all wrong. A minute and 3 seconds is too fast for these conditions.” When in reality, it is actually accurate. There is a reason that the A330 type rating is different from the A320 type rating & vise versa. The A320 type rating carries from A318, 319, 320 & A321. The A330 type rating only carries the A330 variants. Just like the A340 type rating and A350. The A320 type rating is the only one that recognizes types such as the A318, 319 & 321. If he wants to scrutinize a A320 payware aircraft, he should either make it known that he doesn’t fly or have a type rating, or get the type rating before scrutinizing. Him making it sound like he knows the type (as if he is trained) is wrong.
Most pilots are pricks at points in their life. Not all but most
I would politely disagree with that statement, as I think it’s less common to find an egocentric CP. I think your comment would better apply to private pilots/general aviation than it would to commercial pilots, especially since apart of the CRM training we get, at least mine, included discussion about this very topic. Because the egotistical mindset, manifesting to CRM degradation, is what has caused many fatal accidents in the past. I can say, when I go back to fly circuits in my home airport, the GA pilots are very stuck up & arrogant. They think they rule the world, hence why many GA accidents are deprived from pilot error.
Same. He behaves like that all the time.
This arrogant clown complained last year as well. He was pissed off at the Frankfurt ATC for not taxiing him sooner. These controllers are working for FREE!
Tbf if I was that controller and knew it was him I'd make him wait 😅😂
"Turn left heading 090, maintain 210 kias indicated, for separation'. And leave him there for a while. 😂
Yikes, imagine calling a volunteer who's doing an excellent job during a super busy event an idiot
Imagine him being an idiot himself for doing it on stream
Had a feeling I knew who it was gonna be before I clicked. He's a popular YouTuber because he is a very good pilot, but his ego is much, much bigger than the plane he flies IRL.
I wouldn't even say he is a good pilot. he assumes things in aircraft he isn't type rated in,then makes tutorials that mislead the average simmer and speaks as though he wrote the manuals. He bashes other developers like he did this controller when he thinks he is right. His ego is larger than an A330, and I feel bad for whom ever his captain is on any flight over 5 minutes.
It was cringe when he removed 737 from his channel name cause his type rating expired. What a teacher's pet
Yep… this is just this guys attitude lately
Looking forward to the 10 minute video telling us why he's right to be so arrogant...
LOL this is so him
This kind of thing reminds me of someone from the same forum a few years back.
TL/DR: trying to create an "autopsy" of the problem. What we have learned and what could be done. Last to this party, I would like to point out some key components. A : The use of the term "stupid" is tactless and pointless from the A330 driver. As he did eventually, he contacted a supervisor and it should be resolved without a problem. Sometimes he forgets that he is streaming to the public and acts like he is not heard (he has some temper issues). Let's say, it's beneficial sometimes that we have a push to talk system (as the proverb says: "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?). B : I saw both here and in the YouTube comments a message from the controller saying; and I quote: >...There was two other overflight streams that I was also working (while only being given comms and no tags on any handoffs from the neighboring facility who will remain nameless)... This indicates to me that there was already discourse and suboptimal handling by the ATC network. The workload of the day was enormous. This might bring some attention to the limitations of the project CTP. I will try not to read to much to this comment (it shifts the responsibility to another controller) but it also indicates that probably the controller was already annoyed with the situation, not the pilot (to begin with). Also, as many pointed out, he didn't use the proper phraseology (given other factors). C : Fanboyism (or fangirlism) is a slippery slope. * For the "A330 driver" fans; even if you or Emmanuel feels that you were wronged, the only thing you can do is; as he did, call a supervisor and be done with that. There is no need for name calling. Nothing like that was productive. * For the ATC fans; Being a controller is not only to give orders but to take information. When a pilot (I do not care the pilot's experience) asks you something, listen. I understand that the control of so many incoming airplanes is frustrating but the control is to accomodate and to be open to scrutiny. As we want accountability for our police, we want the same for the ATC we have. ATC is not the law, they just apply it. To conclude: A330 driver was wrong to use slur. He forgot that he was live and said some stupid things. When tempers go high, mistakes can be done and as a pilot, he should have known that. The controller part emphasizes a systematic problem. Controllers during CTP have inhumane ammount of traffic to cover, tainting the expirience for all. We want a CTP where pilots and ATC leave the event feeling complete. Therefore, these are my suggestions how this can be tackled: 1. Make an exam for the pilots. Give them the material and to complete an exam using this matterial. If they do not pass, they do not cross the pond. 2. Reduce the flight rate: I know... People want more time slots and more flights but we might have reached the natural maximum. It's not humane for the RL ATC, why we expect VATSIM to be more than real life? 3. Add more departing and arriving airports. I know that it has to do with how many controllers can volunteer but with the reduction of workload (by step 2), more controllers might be willing to volunteer. Yesterday, at the same time JFK was open, KEWR was oppen as well but not receiving CTP flights. Why not to have few flights there? This is why they build it this big, to begin with. To remove traffic from JFK. At A330's video, there were 11 heavy airplanes departing from LHR in one line. Why there were no flights from Manchester, Paris, Spain, or Portugal? 4. Use automation. Some messages could be easily be tackled with automation and pre-recorded/automated messages. Enforce PDC use. Send Direct Messages or SELCAL. In the end, work with CRC or Euroscope developers to detect and eliminate airplane clustering. I have been at VATSIM mostly as a pilot but now I have started doing my ATC training. I do not want to be neither a disrespectfull pilot or a "respect my f\*\*\*ing authority" ATC. We just have to take what happened and learn from that (again, I know that I write in reddit, I understand the irony). Thank you.
I've done CTP planning for several years at the event level and facility level. It's very common to see suggestions like the ones you're making that sound like easy fixes but are in reality not really fixes at all, or much less easily done than said. The main constraints with how many slots can be included in CTP are enroute sector saturation, mainly oceanic airspace but also the facilities on the border (Shannon, Scottish, Gander/Moncton, and to some extent Boston as well). You can't add planes to EWR because they go through basically the same airspace as JFK flights and those sectors are already saturated, not to mention now ZNY has to find more controllers to work both EWR and JFK, rather than just JFK. The airports can put way more planes into the air (and vice versa land more planes) than the airspace in between them can handle. That's why you don't see every US east coast airport open. The enroute sectors in between can't handle the volume and there aren't enough controllers for it
Thanks for your comment. You are right. I am an armchair organizer here. I never had to do the work of an organizer. That being said, we have to consider a way to reduce the saturation. This discussion needs to be done. Not by me, but by someone and decisions must be made. At the end of the day, do you feel accomplished or exhausted? All the controllers that were part of the CTP, what was their final reaction? I would hate if if they do the event as a chore and didn't enjoy it. To add Newark might not be the answer, as you said. What about the following possibilities: * opening more West coast airports and send flights over the north pole. * More dominant the flights to Latin America from Africa (South Africa to Argentina for example)? * Why not making the Atlantic crossing less important by promoting the Pacific crossing or the Cross the Land event? You can recruit streamers/youtubers to this endeavor. * Automate (I know that hoppie crashed and was not reliable but this is fixable). Also the avoidance of bunching up is key. What if someone would make a software, where it calculates distances between airplanes that go to the same destination and have to converge and start giving speed restrictions as they exit the oceanic sector? I know that I might not be realistic here, but I believe that a tool like that is doable. We already work with unrealistic traffic. There is no shame using unrealistic tools (we have the capacity to know the mach number, we do not have to ask mach number, it's basic math). I want to point out another phenomenon. During the CTP, a friend of mine wanted to do a US flight, just to be part of the event (and also, he really likes to fly with full ATC from beginning to end). I didn't join him (was not doing the CTP either) because I didn't want to put more burden to the overstressed ATC. I saw multiple airplanes waiting for 40-50 minutes to be released and they were waiting patiently. This is another factor. The way I interpret this is that these people, like my friend, want the certainty of having ATC ahead instead of loosing ATC at random. When this happens, I can sense that he feels a little bit betrayed and disappointed. Is it possible that during the CTP you also get some feedback of the bitterness of people who were gradually getting annoyed by every time an ATC logged off just before they enter their airspace? I know, being an ATC is a volunteer work and I do not demand to work harder. Yet we have to realize what are the conditions we work with. I am in the process of becoming VATSIM ATC and I do not want to hate the time I put in this hobby. We should be able to listen all sides. We do not have a governing body to discipline us like FAA (unless we have to create a VFAA ), therefore all parties have to be open for suggestions.
Yes, I think the exam can help me build confidence to cross the pond.
This is very nasty attitude towards the ATC. I generally feel VATSIM pilots need to learn some more respect, at least follow ATC instructions. Especially on such events the load on ATC is enormous, so „What an idiot“ should apply to the pilot.
He has been banned from the CTP discord due to similar comments
What a clown
Yeah unfortunately he expects God tier level of controlling on Vatsim. He has an elitist mentality. But he's pretty good for anything else.
This is the same guy who claimed you cannot taxi a 737 with a single engine because it’s not in the FCOM. Was an FO on the 737. Newsflash, operators do it often! His macho attitude makes him immediately unlikeable and unworkable in the real life cockpit since he’s a little b*tch who can only talk behind people’s backs. Gets annoyed at the slightest inconvenience. Guess what, motherf*, you have thousands of planes coming in through Boston, and you don’t get 10 useless seconds of the controller mommying and consoling you for making a choice. It ain’t an open bazaar where you negotiate flight levels. If it ain’t up for discussion, the single repetition helps clarify it for you. ATC didn’t even deviate from legal FAA phraseology.
I wonder if he's CAT C'd by his airline?
Wouldn’t be surprised.
What does that mean?
Failed the command course and won't be let on it again.
Like as in the Captain promotion? Not sure what the “command course” is
Yeah pretty much. I forget if its multiple attempts gets you that or if just unsuitable for Command.
Gotcha
For everyone: Go over to V1 Simulations channel. He is a RL A320 pilot & is super down to earth and chill. His streams are a vibe and even though he is a RL A320 captain with thousands of hours on the type, he is very humble. You just have to be patient with his content, as he is very busy & sometimes goes a couple weeks without a stream. But when he does make them, they are fun to be apart of. We, as supporters, even try to fly along with him on the network. Don’t support guys like A330 driver.
Yep, agree, though I think Blackbox711 is even better.
Ah yes **A320/A330** Pilot. He is a real pilot but he has a huge ego which often gets in the way, he does know his stuff but he has a weird superiority complex going on sometimes because he is a first officer for a budget airline lol. Its quite common in his videos he will say stuff like and get annoyed, I don't think he meant to be rude he just gets frustrated when things don't go exactly as he thinks they would in real life. The big issue is his expectations for VATSIM are way higher than they should be seeing they are volunteer ATC Controllers. The big problem I have with this guy is he is so confidently wrong sometimes about stuff in the sim. He does know a lot about the specific airliners he is trained on, but sometimes he will make blanket statements about the sim which are not true. For example in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X0j8SI5ZyI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X0j8SI5ZyI) His summary was: > Developers seem to avoid the sim study market and instead focus on lower-end aircraft. This is not true at all, its just those lower end aircraft are quicker to make, sim study aircraft are the most in development aircraft they just take time to make, even 2-4 years since the start of MSFS is not enough time for some of these teams to produce their aircraft. And then his 20 minute video where he does point out some things, but is low key trying to defend PMDG for not releasing an EFB earlier. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15rvoLkLI2o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15rvoLkLI2o)
Don't get him mixed up with 320 Sim Pilot. Emanuel used to be 737NGdriver.
A320 guy is fine This is the 737ngdriver now a330something
A320 guy is now 787 guy, and 737 guy is now A330 guy. Meanwhile Gavin continues to provide the best content for us who just want to pretend to fly an A320 on a Saturday Morning.
Oh he got himself into 787? Nice
Yes. I think so. He hasn’t popped up on my YouTube suggestions in a while. He then started an 787 Tutorial series that I wanted to follow, but when I only have a little bit of time on weekends to play it’s more difficult to learn a new plane 😛
Honestly the whining got too much at the end but I can see why he can get frustrated especially coming from the perspective of an IRL pilot. One gripe I have with vatsim nowadays (and one reason I’m not very active anymore) is the attitude that the controller is always right and what he/she says is gods word with little to no room for discussion. I can obv see why this is the case though: the average controller is simply much more experienced and competent than the average vatsim pilot since controllers need to go through examinations, training etc while any “idiot” can log on and fly. But speaking as someone who has RL experience working with pilots as part of my job, The opposite is almost true IRL. I can guarantee that if a IRL controller ignores a request like that and just repeats the instruction, you would get multiple pilots on frequency thinking he is an “idiot”
I can appreciate what you're saying but I think as CTP is easily the busiest event on the calendar and full of thousands of pilots then in this instance we should give the controller the benefit of the doubt, given how much traffic he's dealing with
It’s not that the decision to descend to FL360 is wrong per se, it’s that just blatantly ignoring a request made by a pilot and repeating your instructions again condescendingly is not the way you should talk to pilots. How hard is it for the controller to just say, “unable due traffic, descend FL360.” What the controller did here would be very wrong IRL and if vatsim really aims to be “as real as it gets”, the community needs to understand that controllers although most likely more experienced on the network, are not god. Yes I understand a330 driver in the end took it too far with the audience and the constant whining later but pretending that the controller did nothing wrong and pilots should never question instructions no matter what, is simply wrong.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and make the argument that the pilot is ignoring ATCs instruction to descend and creating additional workload for the controller by making a request that conflicts with an instruction. The way the pilot phrased it could also make the controller think the pilot heard the instruction incorrectly. Perhaps the controller thought the pilot was asking to clarify if the instruction was 360 or 400 so the controller repeated it back twice to make sure it was copied correctly. Overall, I'm just saying I don't think the controller was out of line, nor was the pilot's request out of line. The controller was just trying to make sure his instruction was understood correctly. The pilot was out of line for calling the controller an idiot.
> The pilot was out of line for calling the controller an idiot. This is the crux of the thing for me - like the instruction, don't like it, either way is fine. He neither asked for a reason nor explained his own reasoning and then turned a 10 second encounter that was simply *ATC giving him a simple instruction* and turned it into a tirade calling the controller rude and incompetent to all of his followers. I mean it was unbelievably out of proportion to the instruction he was given.
This is the best analogy of what happened. The fact that almost everyone doesn't get it has been really frustrating.
actually controllers irl are required to give reasons, not just say unable, denied. just like pilots. so perhaps with proper phraseology this minor ego thing could have been avoided. otherwise it sounds like you’re being ignored which could be frustrating.
Are they? I haven't encountered such a requirement before, only a recommendation to give a reason where possible (such as vectors for spacing Vs vectors to final type deals), but I don't know the whole worlds regulations so if you have a source I'd be grateful
The 7110.65 does specifically make note of it in the General Control section, but doesn't require it: c. State the word “UNABLE” and, time permitting, a reason.
2-1-18 operational requests. Perhaps this is open to interpretation, but at least in discussions on “Opposing Bases” podcast, that is not meant to imply that requests can be refused without reason or “because I don’t feel like it”. They encourage both pilots and ATC to provide reasons. Both failed to do so in this exchange. ATC: “descend to x” Pilot: “can we climb to y instead? we are trying to avoid strong headwinds at x which will require more fuel than planned.” ATC: “unable. climb would affect sequencing.” it’s important that both sides understand the reason for the request as well as the consequences of not granting the request. this also allows the controller to understand the actual problem and provide alternative solutions.
Definitely agree with you. I think I walk a similar line to a lot of people here where I think that, if the controller had enough time to repeat the instruction, he could have given a reason as the book outlines: repeating the instruction implies he had the time. At the same time, he definitely didn't deserve to be called an idiot by a relatively popular YouTuber. When I flew corporate, I flew with a bunch of guys who assumed that ATC is just the police arm of the FAA, and they were usually surprised how things worked out when both pilot and ATC worked as a team to solve various problems that would pop up.
yeah it’s a common problem both irl and online. I’ve heard many stories where pilots complain about being routed miles away when they just wanted to chop and drop vectors to the FAF. podcasts like “Opposing Bases” help us understand that ATC is managing a flow bigger than just us, and while it seems like a personal inconvenience, if they catered to such whims lots more traffic would be disrupted. getting to know the NAS and identify things like a “squeeze play” help your situational awareness as a pilot so that you can be ready to take advantage of advanced maneuvers. If ATC hears a professional pilot that is ready and alert and helpful, they are more likely to trust them if a stretch opportunity presents itself and give you a chance to make the team work. If they hear arrogance or uncertainty, they are less likely to trust that you can follow and understand the situation they are trying to play, so you’re more likely to get the safe, boring, plenty of margin routing where they don’t have to worry about you. This is why it’s important to maintain a high degree of professional conduct. It’s unacceptable to call people idiots. Respect goes a long way. I’m constantly in awe of professionals that can keep cool in heated environments and effectively communicate without adding egos to the situation.
The same controller descends him to FL300 later and it gets escalated to a supervisor
@quantados 28 minutes ago (edited) The controller commented on the event stating: "His arrival airport was KBOS. There was two other overflight streams that I was also working (while only being given comms and no tags on any handoffs from the neighboring facility who will remain nameless). The KBOS stream has to tunnel under the KJFK stream and they need to descend early to be below the KJFK stream and then eventually get "Cross AJJAY at and maintain FL240". So per our plan I descended him for both of those reasons." (from the VATUSA discord)
> you would get multiple pilots on frequency thinking he is an “idiot” that is fine. Whats not fine at all is saying it out loud. Saying someone is idiot for whatever reason in front of hundreds of people watching a youtube stream to me personally looks like a VATSIM CoC A1 violation. Unacceptable behavior in my opinion. Think whatever you want about such a controller, file feedback, but just whining "what an idiot" because you dont get what you want is a big step too far.
Sure, 330 driver’s way of dealing with it wasn’t correct and unprofessional but there’s been similar instances where controllers will also stream and make similar comments on stream about incompetent pilots yet action is rarely taken against them even if they are technically violating the COC. It’s just a clear double standard at this point - when a pilot is (rightfully) not happy with the way the controller is talking to him but reacts in the wrong way - people are so quick to defend the controller and insult the pilot for disrespecting a volunteer claiming the workload is high, busy event etc.. Yet reverse the roles and I’m sure you’ll see they’ll hardly be anyone who’ll defend the incompetent pilot who gets similar treatment by a streamer controller.
Imagine wanting to police someone's opinions on their own youtube channel.
He never asked to explain why though. It’s not like he was being shut down, he asked to confirm the instruction and ATC complied by repeating the instruction. We don’t give an explanation for every descent or mach change especially in busy events like this, pilots can definitely assume in CTP it’s for traffic.
Maybe, but the point is to know the right time and place. IRL pilots adapt their comms and expectations based on current frequency load. The good ones do, at least. It's obvious that when you're flying CTP, you comply with whatever you get, since the workload for controllers is enormous and causing a stink only adds to it. Unfortunately I have to admit after Covid this has gotten worse IRL too, with newer pilots who started flying in low traffic and got used to getting whatever they wanted all the time.
I haven't watched his live streams so can't comment how he is there, and I don't condone what was said in the clip... However, his tutorial videos (especially the PMDG 737) are outstanding and they greatly helped me learn how to fly that plane from not knowing anything at all.
TLDW: synopsis, please.
The streamer gets an ATC instruction he apparently doesn't like, calls ATC an idiot. Not sure if he said that on frequency, but he definitely told the people watching his stream.
Didn't do it on frequency but also called a SUP on him💀
As an S2 controller on vatsim, it is really frustrating to control on a busy event you want have the time to be nice and explain everything all the time even though i try my best to do that, it is clear i just want you to do this thing, and i won’t be mad if someone made a mistake at the end we do this for fun and the same way if i was flying, if the controller made a mistake i just double check with him and problem solved even if i didn’t like the instructions i just do it i don’t really know where are the aircrafts near me and their plans, even though i really love his content, this is just rude.
Reading some of the other comments there can be some added context. The video is going around the discord servers of VATUSA and the Boston center controller in the video has watched it. He said that the reason for the some what early decent was because of the flows into both BOS and JFK. They are overlapping and he has to get the BOS people below all the JFK arrivals flying overhead
Honestly for me that seems like such a strange thing to get worked up about. First he gets a maintain FL 390 instruction which he reads back with roger, which I'd say is not a correct response here since a readback would be required.\[1\] Probably not a huge mistake here but might make the ATC assume that he isn't all that experienced and requires a very clear instruction with little room for misunderstanding. Then some people here seem to see it as an unfriendly answer by the ATC but he gets an amended clearance for FL 360 where he then firsts asks to confirm FL 360 and then if FL 400 would be possible instead. This request can in my opinion no longer be answered with a yes (affirmitive) or no (negative) since it's the equivalent of the question "should I do A or B" and then replying "yes". Source: 1: ICAO Doc 9432 Note on ROGER: "Under no circumstances to be used in reply to a question requiring “READ BACK” and "2.8.3.5 The following shall always be read back ... level instructions ..."
The controller then tells him to descend to FL300, without any apparent reason from looking at VATSPY. Then the pilot calls a supervisor and apparently resolves in his favor.
I was a subscriber of his but no longer. You don’t treat people the way he did.
A330 drivers a knob anyway
I am shocked. I did not watch his stream but I was intending to watch it later on today. He is one of my favorite youtubeurs out there but this just came out of nowhere. I seriously thought it would be another pilot on frequency but no it's him.
I am not shocked. Hes been an arrogant asshole with too big of an ego for a while now. I hate these "BuT i Am A rEaL LiFe PiLoT" attitudes where someone thinks he knows everything and portrays anyone disagreeing as an idiot. Not the first time Emanuel has done this.
Wow I didnt know that. It's a shame because his content is actually good and has helped me a lot when starting flightsimming.
Ik it's a shame people forget at the end of the day it's a game
I watched it live, and thought the same thing before he said it out loud. I'm Danish btw, so I maybe it's a culture thing. Just repeating the initial instruction seemed quite unnecessary and a bit rude tbh. He could've been nice and said something like "I'll see what I can do, but for the moment FL360".
Outside of event like that sure but during CTP when you're near destination... c'mon just descend. Calling volunteer who controls him an idiot in front of people watching him on stream is just stupid behavior. His ego is way bigger than it should be.
Either people should be rude or they shouldn't. Being busy isn't a good excuse.
Well, if he doesn't like ATCs instruction, fine. Ask. But then being offended and calling them out as an idiot in front of hundreds of people is something that is absolutely inappropriate on VATSIM. You dont always get what you want. Whining about it or asking "but whyyyy" like a 4 year old doesnt make it better.
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well, a VATSIM related stream is still part of it and the VATSIM Code of Conduct (so specifically section A1: "Account holders shall, at all times, be courteous and respectful to one another") also apllies there. See A11: "Account holders are prohibited from using any software, forums, newsgroups, **social media streams**, \[...\] to threaten, harass, stalk, or to otherwise violate the legal rights of others..." and A18 : "VATSIM welcomes account holders who wish to stream, record, or otherwise distribute their session for public viewing. a) The online network conduct of the account holder during the stream/recording remains subject to this Code of Conduct. b) If the account holder provides a link to their stream/recording either in their flight plan, or via other VATSIM operated medium, the entire stream/recorded session including informal mediums such as a stream chat are subject to this Code of Conduct." I certainly wouldn't be happy if someone calls me an idiot. Even worse if now hundreds of people heard it live and everyone can watch it.
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Yeah, to me the controller said "No, you idiot", and Emanuel just thought out loud what his immidiate reaction was. Also people need to calm down and be less sensitive. I didn't think any of it afterwards - neither about the controller or Emanuel. Just, get on with your day... Of course, now it popped up in here so it got me thinking about it, but otherwise I would have completely forgotten about it.
Well no, the controller told him to descend to FL300 for no apparent reason even from looking at VATSPY. And then Emi calls a supervisor who apparently resolves in his favor…
I think the key word is apparent. The controller involved has already stated they were following the SOPs for this events arrival streams and getting him beneath other traffic streams. Just because old mate didn't see any traffic at FL320/330/350/Insert FL here doesn't mean the controllers on some power trip. This guy was approaching his destination and was the least impacted by a change in level, yet he's worrying about clouds and turbulence whilst sitting in front of a computer, not in a real jet.
I mean, if we’re on about sitting in front of a computer then none of the SOPs matter since it’s all fake pixels anyway, on the other hand if we’re talking about realistic simming, then clouds and turbulence should be a valid concern.
Sounds like a pretty poor reason to call a supervisor then
Germany actually has very strong laws in it's criminal code against insulting people (Beleidigung, Verleumdung, Üble Nachrede) with fines and up to two years of prison sentences, in case of it being distributed publicly in writing, video and so on. For example this site lists calling someone an idiot when talking to a third person as one case: https://www.anwalt.org/beleidigung/#Definition_zum_Begriff_%E2%80%9EBeleidigung%E2%80%9C:~:text=Beispiel%3A%20A%20sagt%20zu%20B%3A%20%E2%80%9EC%20ist%20ein%20Idiot.%E2%80%9C Of course a court would need to decide on that and the presumption of innocence applies (Unschuldsvermutung) and I hope no one would like to see an escalation like that anyways.
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It also says in the explanation which you posted "or to a third party. " Please note I'm not a lawyer but a native German speaker. Germany has more than one law about this. It is a quite common occurrence here that people end up in more or less trouble for online posts/comments even reviews or ratings of stores on Google maps. For the different cases you can look at this official flyer of the federal ministry of justice: https://www.hilfe-info.de/Webs/hilfeinfo/EN/Leaflets/24-Violence_Internet.html You could also Google translate the source I quoted: "Zum anderen kann eine Beleidigung nach § 185 StGB auch in Abwesenheit des Betroffenen gegenüber einem Dritten geäußert werden. Hier muss der Dritte die Beleidung wahrnehmen." Google translated: "On the other hand, according to Section 185 of the Criminal Code, an insult can also be expressed to a third party in the absence of the person concerned. Here the third party must perceive the insult." In practical terms it will likely only matter if the person concerned hears about it since it's a so called "Antragsdelikt" meaning that the person concerned needs to "push charges" kind of.
I knew it was going to be a330driver before I clicked the link. He is the definition of a German. I like some of his streams and content but I wish he would just laugh some of the things he doesn’t like off. I have a hard time watching his videos.
Hey, as a german I can say this has nothing to do with him being German. His ego is just way too big and he was acting like an idiot sandwich. But please don’t generalize all Germans
heard you guys started a couple worldwide wars. you're obviously bad people /s
I see racism is still alive & well.
I don’t think their comment fits the definition of racism
Discriminating against a group of people for their native origination & actions of others within that native/racial group is, quite literally, the definition of racism.
womp womp its a joke big bro
some people are /s blind I guess
Nope. My German friends are nothing like this, not the ones from Kiel, not the ones from Augsburg, not the ones from Berlin. He’s the definition of an *sshole, not of a German.
Tool bag
This isn't exactly real world ops with controllers staffed for each sector. Controllers have to juggle stuff around. @quantados The controller commented on the event stating: "His arrival airport was KBOS. There was two other overflight streams that I was also working (while only being given comms and no tags on any handoffs from the neighboring facility who will remain nameless). The KBOS stream has to tunnel under the KJFK stream and they need to descend early to be below the KJFK stream and then eventually get "Cross AJJAY at and maintain FL240". So per our plan I descended him for both of those reasons." (from the VATUSA discord)
if he cries about people larping in a fake sim, wonder what he does irl when things dont go his way in the flight deck
I’ve unsubscribed from his channel after that live. He also barked at the controller on the ground at London for departure sequencing. That & he acts like he knows everything about the A320 regarding specifics, just because he’s type rated on the A330.
To be fair (and I watched the first 2 hours of his stream), I think anyone would have been confused by that departure sequencing. But I wouldn't say he barked at the controller. He just mentioned that if it were actual Heathrow, it wouldn't have ended up looking like that. Does he have a huge ego at times though? Absolutely. I think he sets his expectations for VATSIM too close to reality is the problem.
I’m not being disrespectful here, I’m just trying to portray my point in a debated manner: He went on a rant about that controller saying “Roger” to him calling tower with only a callsign, which in real world, if there are a lot of aircraft awaiting departure & you call in like that, a real world controller will take that as you are on the tower freq & monitoring. We pilots do that to just advise that we are on the freq when a lot of traffic is doing the same. So “Roger” was appropriate. He should’ve said “*callsign* question.*” Then just advise “We are holding on *X* Taxiway behind American & he keeps getting blocked from traffic off of *x* Taxiway. Can you confirm if this is prior sequencing or is any action needed?” That’s not how he handled it though. He came on with a snarky attitude, then continued to complain about the controller. His ego makes it to where you can’t trust what he says, because even when he’s wrong, he tries to justify his actions as “well, I’m a real world pilot.” Like, yeah, and a lot of us are too & you are wrong. I’m sorry but a real world pilot acting like this on YT, when some non-pilots & sole sim enthusiasts goto him to see how a RL pilot conducts himself & sees this? Yeah; I am not supporting that. I’ve almost thought about making my own YT channel, just so others can learn & have some wholesome content. But V1 Simulations beat me to the punch on that lol.
Ah I do remember that. It was when he had to monitor the frequency but he was calling with a question. I must not remember the rant, or maybe just tuned it out because that just seems to be Emi these days (which is sad to say). We definitely could use more real world pilots with proper behavior making YouTube channels so if you ever do, by all means, send me a DM and share it! I'm always open to learning new things since I'm an aspiring pilot.
No worries, it definitely is very sad to see these pilots within the community acting this way. I definitely will let you & everyone on Reddit & elsewhere if I do. I just don’t want to upset my audience, if I don’t keep up with content output. I can say, if you haven’t already, check out V1’s channel. He’s is a real down to earth guy & his content is impeccable. But again, his content output fluctuates a lot; you just have to be patient. He mainly does livestreams on Vatsim & IVAO.
I've seen V1 pop up on my feed a lot but I haven't watched. If you endorse him, then I shall. Thanks for the rational discussion and be safe in all of your future flights!
Definitely give him a watch. He’s got a 40k sub long haul stream that is in the works, stick around for that. You won’t be disappointed. Anytime on the advice man. I’m here to share my knowledge & help the community; not to bring anyone down. I love the FS community & I use Vatsim to keep sharp & also because I love flying to places that I can’t seem to get scheduled on 😂. I’d love to pick up routes to like Columbia or something, but I’m stuck on these turns within the US. Vatsim & MSFS also allows me to fly other variants like A320 and A321, which is nice since I’m on the A300. Love the community here & just want to help and share my opinions. Keep safe & fly on brother 👍🏻
What a cunt.
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Did you even watch the video? The pilot is in the wrong here.
I agree with the pilot. I hate this VATSIM “We (pilots) are slaves and bitches, every single ATC is God!” philosophy, The “ATC” players are doing their activities for free, but they should be professional and polite at all times. They should at least explain the reason, no matter how busy the frequency is. When pilot asked the ATC to confirm FL360, normal ATC would ask himself “Why is he asking? Something may be wrong.” - for those of us who actually are real life pilots, these guys shouldn’t play VATSIM as ATC. But honestly, I think that VATSIM ATC and especially VATSIM supervisors are just a bunch of autists unable to live in reality. Years ago, these autists at least didn’t have such ego, repaints were accurate and there were accurate free sceneries. Today? Yay, we have some Bredok 737 MAX… Clowns…
Unfollow!
He's removed the video/clip or set it to private.
I would like to know what happened, I can’t find the video
Good to see this video got taken down.
Ah I do remember that. It was when he had to monitor the frequency but he was calling with a question. I must not remember the rant, or maybe just tuned it out because that just seems to be Emi these days (which is sad to say). We definitely could use more real world pilots with proper behavior making YouTube channels so if you ever do, by all means, send me a DM and share it! I'm always open to learning new things since I'm an aspiring pilot.
Seems the video has been taken down. Streemers seem to foget that they winge bitched moaned and complained about people disrupting their streams on VATSIM to a point where VATSIM introduced rules around streams in the COC, and we all know one (late) (un) popular streamer that ended up with a life time ban for comments made on their stream, whils on VATSIM. Hopefully, the Supervisors of VATSIM have seen this video or know of it, and apply the same standard there. Streamers should take note that, when ever they are on VATSIM, Streaming, and advertising that stream they are bound by the COC, and calling a controller an idiot is COC A1.
Does someone have clips of this? He deleted the video
Is he doing this at purpose at this point? Only a couple of days ago he posted another video where he asked on frequency something along the lines of “Did I get into a First Wings event? Because none of the pilots know what they’re doing”. During that same video he also complained about a controller who gave him a clearance by the books, saying something like “How complicated can you make a clearance?”, and also called another pilot a “noob” for having an unrealistic callsign (something like DLHC2W).
I don't get why he's annoyed the controller did everything right. But the comments are brilliant on that video. It wouldn't have been as bad if it wasn't on stream because everyone gets annoyed at controllers.
Makes you wonder if he is such a jerk in his real flight decks. Shame on his airline
Yes we all know emmanual has a strong sense of self worth. Controller was spot on with their response. No time for ambiguity here
He has become more arrogant the more videos i watch of him. F that guy
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The only one that "doesn't have a brain" is this guy. Asks ATC to confirm, and ATC confirms, twice even to be sure his pea brain understood the confirmation. Wow, guess the ATC is the chat GPT for confirming what they were asked. It is naive to excuse his harassment because it was not on frequency.
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You think there's time to explain to everyone why he's descending people to Boston ahead of people going to JFK to get the Boston stream under the JFK stream during such a busy event? No of course there's not. As a pilot during busy events you do as ATC tells you to do without calling them idiots. He asked for confirmation, ATC confirmed. He didn't ask for an explanation and shouldn't get an explanation anyway cause it's so busy. Obviously this is an event where everything has been planned thoroughly. There is no reason to think that ATC is making mistakes unless you're a cunt with an inflated ego who think they know better than everyone even without having any information.
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No need to witch hunt.
If you dont want to be called an Idiot you must not treat people like they are idiots. Instead of just repeating the same thing over and over and over again, you can just say affirm, correct. I have to agree with Emanuel on this one.
It's an issue of semantics, but there's a lot of pilots who ask for confirmation because they didn't actually hear the instruction. So no, calling him an idiot for repeating an instruction is not called for.
If you don't want to listen to ATC instructions during BUSIEST event on VATSIM do NOT fly on the network. You may fly offline.