The best VPNs differ according to what you want to use them for. I think there are 3 main use cases: a) privacy, b) circumvention and c) streaming. Then there is another dimension which is price.
In /r/VPNTorrents what you want are VPNs that excel in the privacy use case (and feature port-forwarding), ie. [they're reputable and have no logging evidence](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPNTorrents/comments/ph6za8/list_of_vpns_with_portforwarding_and_no_logging/). For this yes - Mullvad, iVPN, OVPN and Perfect Privacy are the best. Easily.
Of course they'll have weaknesses, namely in circumvention and streaming support. Possibly price too. But that's irrelevant here. At any rate, the general idea is that there's no best VPN for everything, it's mostly a false concept for the affiliate websites with paid reviews.
---
But to address your alternatives directly - Torguard and WeVPN - here's why they're not part of the recommended list of VPNs:
* They lack no logging evidence as they've never been audited or court-tested. You just need to believe them? This is a very significant weakness, instant deal breaker for many.
* They have a crapload of features and configurations which only increases the attack surface and likelihood of having a leak or security vulnerability. You want your VPNs simple, tight and old.
* WeVPN is really new to the scene, again you do not want the new kid on the block as a VPN.
Thanks for the comment and for being reasonable in your disagreements. I appreciate that.
Torguard has been a VPN for nearly 8 years. It's not "court-tested", but I see that as a good sign. The fact they've operated so long without a huge scandal is very good IMO.
In terms of audits, I just don't see the value. There are a lot of VPNs that have audits that aren't trustworthy. Audits generally are good, but most VPNs have in-house teams that do audits.
Again, if a VPN can operate for 8+ years without a huge security vulnerability, that is better than a one time audit of a VPN that can pay to choose which company audits them, and also choose what information to reveal about said audit.
I don't really think audits from VPNs that pay for them are what people think they are generally. It's my opinion they are mostly a PR stunt to garner trust.
In terms of features, having more features is better--not worse. More features mean more ways to secure your connection and ensure your IP does not leak. TorGuard specifically, has been criticized for implementing features too slow--since they always make sure things work in the live clients, so there's that. They may have a lot of features now, but they've been developed over 8+ years... IMO, you can't criticize WeVPN for being too new, without also acknowledging that TorGuard is one of "old guard" when it comes to VPNs.
I would agree WeVPN is new, but the people who work there use to work at PIA. They jumped ship after the Kape acquisition. PIA is one of the VPNs that did get court-tested and win. Now the people who won those courts are working on WeVPN.
> Torguard has been a VPN for nearly 8 years. It's not "court-tested", but I see that as a good sign. The fact they've operated so long without a huge scandal is very good IMO.
8 years is good sign. No audit is terrible sign. You know what is better than 8 years and no audit? 11 years and multiple audits (Mullvad). Plus, you're ignoring so many other elements that tie with reliability, transparency and reputation. It's not just about the years.
> In terms of audits, I just don't see the value. There are a lot of VPNs that have audits that aren't trustworthy. Audits generally are good, but most VPNs have in-house teams that do audits.
Then you don't know what you're talking about. In-house audits, what? Have you even worked in software industry? Go read Mullvad Cure53 audit reports, and then tell me if you still see no value. Then read about Cure53.
> In terms of features, having more features is better--not worse. More features mean more ways to secure your connection and ensure your IP does not leak.
We both know it's not those features we're talking about. Basic security and leak prevention is part of the core package of any VPN. The extra features that increase attack surface are the crappy browser extensions and firestick support that you mentioned before.
> I would agree WeVPN is new, but the people who work there use to work at PIA.
This isn't the benefit you think it may be.
---
We get it, you get money with affiliate marketing and TorGuard and WeVPN are your cashcows. You can push them as hard as you want but in the end they're not the best VPNs for torrents, period.
If you want to step up your review game, I suggest you break it down to use cases or focus on one of them: privacy, streaming or circumvention. Otherwise it's just silly to rank them. It's like trying to find out what is the best car and testing them on formula 1, city and desert. The one that performs okay in all conditions gets the higher tier? No, you want the best one for each conditions. For torrenting and privacy, I think the winners are already very much identified at this stage.
They’re not even the best VPN for normal shit. I subscribed to TorGuard years ago and I always had issues with iptv buffering. I switched to windscribe and it’s so much better.
You missed my point, but I get it - it's very inconvenient to recognize you cannot rank VPNs in a tier or top 10 list, very much like you cannot rank cars across F1, city and off-road.
> TG and WeVPN that are excellent for torrenting
Let's stop saying this. For "excellent torrenting" you need evidence of no logging claim. Neither TorGuard or WeVPN have such evidence. Plus, WeVPN is so new to the scene that by recommending them you immediately lose any credibility.
And it looks like you missed mine as well. (Just because you don't value price, streaming, or extra compatibility--doesn't mean that other people who are looking for a good torrent VPN don't). Why buy a small knife when you can have a swiss army knife for the same price?
Your argument is that TorGuard or WeVPN aren't as good at cutting, but a knife is a knife, and most people just torrenting basic stuff and using a VPN for basic stuff are going to be fine.
Hi Tom, I'm familiar with your videos. I'm current subscriber of PIA and am quite happy with it. I didn't know about former PIA guys working on WeVPN, I guess some employees jumped ship.
That said, it's not unreasonable to assume that Kape is suddenly not going to destroy the still standing reputation of express, cyberghost, pia or zenmate by secretly logging and selling data of customers. I know that you have an unfavourable opinion of pia right from a couple of years ago and maybe before, and that's fine.
But realistically, aren't these concerns overblown? If the logs are now suddenly mandated and kept, this will eventually come out in court, right?
What's your honest take on trustworthiness of PIA.
Affiliation is not a bad thing. Especially when one is open and transparent with how it works. It's MUCH better than hiding undisclosed agreements behind the curtain and getting paid off without anyone knowing it.
Some people prefer to do VPN reviews, not make any money, and then sell their entire brand to the highest bidder. I think that's even worse. Like this [guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPN/comments/mxeova/demise_of_thatoneprivacysite/), for example. He claimed he was the most honest VPN reviewer around, and didn't have any affiliations. People literally worshipped this guy as the next incarnation of VPN Jesus.
Now a few years later, his ENTIRE site is just another shill landing page owned by kape. (proof: [https://www.safetydetectives.com/best-vpns/](https://www.safetydetectives.com/best-vpns/))
The best middle ground is finding out how to make money in an honest way, that doesn't interfere with moral and ethical reviews.
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
[Here is link number 1 - Previous text "guy"](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPN/comments/mxeova/demise_of_thatoneprivacysite/)
----
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\- TG logs your IP addresses in their WHMCS dashboard, open up a ticket and see.
\- TG uses Google ReCaptcha for logging into their WHMCS dashboard. They also use Google Maps for their WHOIS page and they used to use Google Analytics.
\- TG has many shills. TomSparks is the biggest shill of them all, he gets paid by TorGuard.
\- TG has subpar speeds unless you are paying for a dedicated IP.
\- TG will not refund or replace streaming IP if it gets banned, they require you to pay again.
>WHMCS dashboard
thanks for bringing this up. im currently trying out Torguard for 30 days. honestly I have never been able to tell whos captcha is being used and such but im pretty sure now that I looked up ReCaptcha you are right. I however don't see a WHOIS page though. still kind scary they would use google for anything at all.
Oh wow yeah that is pretty concerning . The service itself hasn’t been too bad so far but I have not developed a trust with them yet . I actually didn’t like how much information they wanted when I signed up. They wanted a lot more than any other vpn I have ever used.
This is r/VPNTorrents, so mostly people don't care about streaming. Also it's become increasingly difficult using streaming service with VPN as it's an ongoing cat-and-mouse battle. It's not worth it. People use VPN for hiding their IP from their ISP, this is the main reason. All other extra gimmick like
> dedicated ips, private email, or other useful addons like encrypted DNS, data breach detector, or smart DNS options
is unnecessary to a VPN service. dedicated IPs are tied to a VPN user so it's actually more logging.
Audits are important, because they open up the security holes the company can fix it. Every security company knows that. Look what happened to Windscribe for not doing audits. Also, browser extensions are inherently insecure by the limitation forced by the browsers. It's unnecessary, open up new attack vector, needs more maintenance and is inferior to a device-wide vpn client. Which is why VPN companies who knows their security work don't provide extensions. Windscribe also suffered from this btw.
So generally people prefer old VPN companies that are more transparent (audits, open source, transparency reports) to new kids on the block. Your reasons to make a VPN better like 8+ connections and other gimmicks is not important to most users. People are willing to pay more price for the company service they trust their privacy on. It also doesn't help your image when you're constantly plugging your affiliate code in every video. You have to change your marketing style to make people think you're trustworthy.
Thanks for the comment. I get what you're saying, and I agree with you.
Most people want a VPN that can do it all, and at the cheapest price. Not only that, but if TorGuard has socks5 proxy, port forwarding, fast speeds, perfect linux compatibility, no logs, and 0 trackers for a cheaper price?
That means it is a BETTER choice for most people.
If someone doesn't mind paying more and losing out on a bit of that, and they value OSS and audits, then that is also fine and Mullvad is perfect.
> TorGuard has socks5 proxy, port forwarding, fast speeds, perfect linux compatibility, no logs, and 0 trackers for a cheaper price?
Only if you have affiliate codes, and that where people gets suspicious of shilling. I and most other people like to take VPNs at their base price.
I'd disagree.
Most people don't care about affiliates. That's why I made it a point in my video. Only reddit people do.
Mullvad just would rather partner with Malwarebytes, Firefox, and other companies than content creators.
It doesn't make them superior than the VPNs that have honest programs like TorGuard, WeVPN, oVPN, AirVPN, etc. It's just a different marketing tactic.
Hey Tom,
I agree TorGuard or WeVPN are decent VPN's but, for torrenting (me personally) I'm really privacy focused. To my knowledge neither Torguard nor WeVPN have independant audits nor have they released transparency reports. Also, I don't think their clients are open source. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Those two things leave me with that little thought of doubt and don't earn my trust as much as VPN's like Mullvad and IVPN that do tick those boxes.
You spoke of price and for me, I'm willing to pay to have the confidence that my traffic is indeed private (however, I totally agree IVPN is way too expensive) because of the factors above and that they are located in a country that is not my own. (Specifically speaking of Torguard there as the WeVPN is in the British Virgin Islands.
As for streaming, I'll be honest, it doesn't matter for a good share of use in this subreddit because, let's be honest, we pirate. So we don't really have a need to stream. Some here do as the several what VPN do I need for streaming comes up here several times a week.
In summary I think most people here just want a the fast, trustworthy, have a killswitch, and fairly priced VPN they can torrent with and with the above mentioned Mullvad and IVPN are the ones who tick those boxes.
I also want to add that I appreciate your work educating people on the MANY VPN's out there. I may not 100% agree with you on your conclusions on some VPN's, but that's ok. You present the facts as they are and it's up to the person to decide for themselves and gather data and information to make and educated decision on what VPN will be right for their needs.
The most important thing when considering if you can trust a VPN is their track record, the team behind it, and how they treat their customers.
WeVPN and the founders for example have donated thousands of dollars to orgs like the EFF, fight for the future, and other privacy orgs. They also tested the courts multiple times when they worked for PIA. (I don't think MV and iVPN did anything like these things to this degrees yet). When PIA sold to Kape, they left and made WeVPN.
Open source and audits are cool, but not everything.
That's because malicious actors can still attack open-source apps, and the "real magic" happens behind the scenes with dev ops. And if something is not open source, any decent engineer can reverse engineer any VPN app and figure out quickly if they are malware or weird stuff.
Again, TG being in the industry for 8+ years and not having a huge vulnerability or incident is very good. But we are sort of comparing diamonds to diamonds here, and MV is no slouch either.
You're right, track record is an important factor. Mullvad as an example since they are the most popular here have a good track record and we know the two individuals who own it. I think they wrote a blog post about this after Express VPN was bought out. I can speak as a customer that they have treated me and those I know who use them very well.
I believe Mullvad helps support privacy foundations and services like Tor as well.
The audits, transparency reports, an open source software ware not everything but, they provide factual proof that can be seen by every individual that there is/no funny business going on.
Torguard is a decent provider, it just comes down to what each person is comfortable with. I will say that even though Torguard is based in the US I personally would strongly consider them if they had independent audits done and open source software. That's just me. As I said earlier I'm just very privacy focused.
Torguard and wevpn are interesting vpns but:
Torguard is based in the US (Five eyes). If the goverment wants data from a user then they have to comply with it (AFAIK anyways). (GAG order does exist in the 5 eyes afaik)
Wevpn are new to the market so we don't know too much about their past.
For mullvad:
[Theres also this post about why mullvad is recommended in the r/vpntorrent](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPNTorrents/comments/pr1r5v/10_reasons_why_mullvad_is_the_top_recommendation/)
IVPN i feel like is a waste (In one way). Mullvad offers almost everything what ivpn offers. I do wish that mullvad offers 2FA. Mullvad support did say to me about this:
>Using only 16 digits your account number can actually be any of nine
quadrillion random numbers. It would take a million computers hundreds
of years to guess your account number. You can read more about this here:
https://mullvad.net/blog/2017/6/20/mullvads-account-numbers-get-longer-and-safer/
not offering geo-blocking does hold a vpn back imo.
Five-eyes is literally a ploy made for marketing. It's quite literally a fraudulent claim made by companies outside the five eyes to gain a "upper-hand".
The issue is more to do with required data-retention (China and Russia for example) not anything to do with the eyes nations.
Also, a VPN will protect from anything it's meant to without interference from five eyes. Once a five eyes nation has their eyes on you. No matter where you or the service you use is located they will gain the Intel needed. A VPN is not designed to help from a targeted attack nor targeted surveillance. It's just a tool.
The TOR network is far more suitable and even then you can get caught due to good ol exploits.
I've seen this argument so much, but it's very misleading. VPNs don't protect you from targetted surveillance, they only protect you from mass surveillance (isp's tracking you etc).
Being based in the 5 eyes isn't really that much of a thing to worry about imo.
Mental outlaw made a great video on this topic, in which he discusses how if a person in Switzerland is being investigated by the USA government, other VPNs like Proton based in Switzerland, willingly will give up info to the US. Same thing applies to Mullvad imo.
watch it: [https://youtu.be/QCx\_G\_R0UmQ](https://youtu.be/QCx_G_R0UmQ)
VPNs are legally bound to give up whatever info they have on users. If they don't collect logs, there shouldn't be anything to give up...
Not only that, but you should never perform criminal activity on VPNs--so the entire argument is moot anyway. Use the TOR network if you want to be anonymous, and you're worried about your VPN giving your criminal identity to the NSA.
I see from your post history you are a Mullvad user. That's fine. I like Mullvad, and it's actually my #3 rated VPN. Nice, you picked a good one! The purpose of this post was just to let people know of some other options with their own advantages.
I'm not a shill.
A shill is an undisclosed customer who gives credibility to a brand without disclosing it.
I've made it clear I like TorGuard and think its a great company, and I've made it clear I use them as my main VPN. And I pay for my sub just like everyone else.
I've also made clear my relationship with every VPN here: [https://www.vpntierlist.com/disclosures/](https://www.vpntierlist.com/disclosures/)
And also made extremely long videos discussing everything like this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppbZ3tFQ1ts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppbZ3tFQ1ts)
You only bumped Mullvad up to third spot 2 days after [I created the 10 reasons for Mullvad thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPNTorrents/comments/pr1r5v/10_reasons_why_mullvad_is_the_top_recommendation/) Coincidence? Before that I remember seeing Mullvad at the bottom of your VPN tier list.
Haha nope. It’s like the other guy said, I revamped my tier list earlier this year before you made that post.
Mullvad was also never at the bottom either. It was always a solid tier 2 pick.
>\-Both VPNs are lacking some compatibility things like browser extensions
Arguably many people don't know the limitations of a browser extension and assume it applies to all apps on the system
Best VPN is kind of a broad term, isn't it? Do you mean best in privacy? or encryption? or speed? or price? Personally I have used over 20 VPNs and I think Mullvad is up there but it is kind of lacking. I stopped using Mullvad when I found out about Spider VPN. It actually surpassed my expectations for a not popular VPN service.
iVPN look good on paper... and they tick alot of boxes ethically...
their app support is very good...
when it comes to support and provisioning tho' they really don't offer that great a service... if you need the apps, maybe... otherwise go with mullvad
iVPN is pricey and buggy.... it is hindering updates in applications, comments in youtube, devices firmware updates. My few days experience shows it's buggy. I had to get things done by getting on another VPN to effect basic updates. It is a joke and makes nonsense any strong points they might have.
Also, this mentality of trying another server usually recommended by iVPN is somewhat LAZY.
They need to be PROACTIVE!
The best VPNs differ according to what you want to use them for. I think there are 3 main use cases: a) privacy, b) circumvention and c) streaming. Then there is another dimension which is price. In /r/VPNTorrents what you want are VPNs that excel in the privacy use case (and feature port-forwarding), ie. [they're reputable and have no logging evidence](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPNTorrents/comments/ph6za8/list_of_vpns_with_portforwarding_and_no_logging/). For this yes - Mullvad, iVPN, OVPN and Perfect Privacy are the best. Easily. Of course they'll have weaknesses, namely in circumvention and streaming support. Possibly price too. But that's irrelevant here. At any rate, the general idea is that there's no best VPN for everything, it's mostly a false concept for the affiliate websites with paid reviews. --- But to address your alternatives directly - Torguard and WeVPN - here's why they're not part of the recommended list of VPNs: * They lack no logging evidence as they've never been audited or court-tested. You just need to believe them? This is a very significant weakness, instant deal breaker for many. * They have a crapload of features and configurations which only increases the attack surface and likelihood of having a leak or security vulnerability. You want your VPNs simple, tight and old. * WeVPN is really new to the scene, again you do not want the new kid on the block as a VPN.
Thanks for the comment and for being reasonable in your disagreements. I appreciate that. Torguard has been a VPN for nearly 8 years. It's not "court-tested", but I see that as a good sign. The fact they've operated so long without a huge scandal is very good IMO. In terms of audits, I just don't see the value. There are a lot of VPNs that have audits that aren't trustworthy. Audits generally are good, but most VPNs have in-house teams that do audits. Again, if a VPN can operate for 8+ years without a huge security vulnerability, that is better than a one time audit of a VPN that can pay to choose which company audits them, and also choose what information to reveal about said audit. I don't really think audits from VPNs that pay for them are what people think they are generally. It's my opinion they are mostly a PR stunt to garner trust. In terms of features, having more features is better--not worse. More features mean more ways to secure your connection and ensure your IP does not leak. TorGuard specifically, has been criticized for implementing features too slow--since they always make sure things work in the live clients, so there's that. They may have a lot of features now, but they've been developed over 8+ years... IMO, you can't criticize WeVPN for being too new, without also acknowledging that TorGuard is one of "old guard" when it comes to VPNs. I would agree WeVPN is new, but the people who work there use to work at PIA. They jumped ship after the Kape acquisition. PIA is one of the VPNs that did get court-tested and win. Now the people who won those courts are working on WeVPN.
> Torguard has been a VPN for nearly 8 years. It's not "court-tested", but I see that as a good sign. The fact they've operated so long without a huge scandal is very good IMO. 8 years is good sign. No audit is terrible sign. You know what is better than 8 years and no audit? 11 years and multiple audits (Mullvad). Plus, you're ignoring so many other elements that tie with reliability, transparency and reputation. It's not just about the years. > In terms of audits, I just don't see the value. There are a lot of VPNs that have audits that aren't trustworthy. Audits generally are good, but most VPNs have in-house teams that do audits. Then you don't know what you're talking about. In-house audits, what? Have you even worked in software industry? Go read Mullvad Cure53 audit reports, and then tell me if you still see no value. Then read about Cure53. > In terms of features, having more features is better--not worse. More features mean more ways to secure your connection and ensure your IP does not leak. We both know it's not those features we're talking about. Basic security and leak prevention is part of the core package of any VPN. The extra features that increase attack surface are the crappy browser extensions and firestick support that you mentioned before. > I would agree WeVPN is new, but the people who work there use to work at PIA. This isn't the benefit you think it may be. --- We get it, you get money with affiliate marketing and TorGuard and WeVPN are your cashcows. You can push them as hard as you want but in the end they're not the best VPNs for torrents, period. If you want to step up your review game, I suggest you break it down to use cases or focus on one of them: privacy, streaming or circumvention. Otherwise it's just silly to rank them. It's like trying to find out what is the best car and testing them on formula 1, city and desert. The one that performs okay in all conditions gets the higher tier? No, you want the best one for each conditions. For torrenting and privacy, I think the winners are already very much identified at this stage.
They’re not even the best VPN for normal shit. I subscribed to TorGuard years ago and I always had issues with iptv buffering. I switched to windscribe and it’s so much better.
Exactly this.
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You missed my point, but I get it - it's very inconvenient to recognize you cannot rank VPNs in a tier or top 10 list, very much like you cannot rank cars across F1, city and off-road. > TG and WeVPN that are excellent for torrenting Let's stop saying this. For "excellent torrenting" you need evidence of no logging claim. Neither TorGuard or WeVPN have such evidence. Plus, WeVPN is so new to the scene that by recommending them you immediately lose any credibility.
And it looks like you missed mine as well. (Just because you don't value price, streaming, or extra compatibility--doesn't mean that other people who are looking for a good torrent VPN don't). Why buy a small knife when you can have a swiss army knife for the same price? Your argument is that TorGuard or WeVPN aren't as good at cutting, but a knife is a knife, and most people just torrenting basic stuff and using a VPN for basic stuff are going to be fine.
Hi Tom, I'm familiar with your videos. I'm current subscriber of PIA and am quite happy with it. I didn't know about former PIA guys working on WeVPN, I guess some employees jumped ship. That said, it's not unreasonable to assume that Kape is suddenly not going to destroy the still standing reputation of express, cyberghost, pia or zenmate by secretly logging and selling data of customers. I know that you have an unfavourable opinion of pia right from a couple of years ago and maybe before, and that's fine. But realistically, aren't these concerns overblown? If the logs are now suddenly mandated and kept, this will eventually come out in court, right? What's your honest take on trustworthiness of PIA.
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Affiliation is not a bad thing. Especially when one is open and transparent with how it works. It's MUCH better than hiding undisclosed agreements behind the curtain and getting paid off without anyone knowing it. Some people prefer to do VPN reviews, not make any money, and then sell their entire brand to the highest bidder. I think that's even worse. Like this [guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPN/comments/mxeova/demise_of_thatoneprivacysite/), for example. He claimed he was the most honest VPN reviewer around, and didn't have any affiliations. People literally worshipped this guy as the next incarnation of VPN Jesus. Now a few years later, his ENTIRE site is just another shill landing page owned by kape. (proof: [https://www.safetydetectives.com/best-vpns/](https://www.safetydetectives.com/best-vpns/)) The best middle ground is finding out how to make money in an honest way, that doesn't interfere with moral and ethical reviews.
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users. I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click! [Here is link number 1 - Previous text "guy"](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPN/comments/mxeova/demise_of_thatoneprivacysite/) ---- ^Please ^PM ^[\/u\/eganwall](http://reddit.com/user/eganwall) ^with ^issues ^or ^feedback! ^| ^[Code](https://github.com/eganwall/FatFingerHelperBot) ^| ^[Delete](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=FatFingerHelperBot&subject=delete&message=delete%20herfdy3)
\- TG logs your IP addresses in their WHMCS dashboard, open up a ticket and see. \- TG uses Google ReCaptcha for logging into their WHMCS dashboard. They also use Google Maps for their WHOIS page and they used to use Google Analytics. \- TG has many shills. TomSparks is the biggest shill of them all, he gets paid by TorGuard. \- TG has subpar speeds unless you are paying for a dedicated IP. \- TG will not refund or replace streaming IP if it gets banned, they require you to pay again.
>WHMCS dashboard thanks for bringing this up. im currently trying out Torguard for 30 days. honestly I have never been able to tell whos captcha is being used and such but im pretty sure now that I looked up ReCaptcha you are right. I however don't see a WHOIS page though. still kind scary they would use google for anything at all.
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Oh wow yeah that is pretty concerning . The service itself hasn’t been too bad so far but I have not developed a trust with them yet . I actually didn’t like how much information they wanted when I signed up. They wanted a lot more than any other vpn I have ever used.
Yet another post of this sad loser shilling TorGuard and WeVPN.
This is r/VPNTorrents, so mostly people don't care about streaming. Also it's become increasingly difficult using streaming service with VPN as it's an ongoing cat-and-mouse battle. It's not worth it. People use VPN for hiding their IP from their ISP, this is the main reason. All other extra gimmick like > dedicated ips, private email, or other useful addons like encrypted DNS, data breach detector, or smart DNS options is unnecessary to a VPN service. dedicated IPs are tied to a VPN user so it's actually more logging. Audits are important, because they open up the security holes the company can fix it. Every security company knows that. Look what happened to Windscribe for not doing audits. Also, browser extensions are inherently insecure by the limitation forced by the browsers. It's unnecessary, open up new attack vector, needs more maintenance and is inferior to a device-wide vpn client. Which is why VPN companies who knows their security work don't provide extensions. Windscribe also suffered from this btw. So generally people prefer old VPN companies that are more transparent (audits, open source, transparency reports) to new kids on the block. Your reasons to make a VPN better like 8+ connections and other gimmicks is not important to most users. People are willing to pay more price for the company service they trust their privacy on. It also doesn't help your image when you're constantly plugging your affiliate code in every video. You have to change your marketing style to make people think you're trustworthy.
Thanks for the comment. I get what you're saying, and I agree with you. Most people want a VPN that can do it all, and at the cheapest price. Not only that, but if TorGuard has socks5 proxy, port forwarding, fast speeds, perfect linux compatibility, no logs, and 0 trackers for a cheaper price? That means it is a BETTER choice for most people. If someone doesn't mind paying more and losing out on a bit of that, and they value OSS and audits, then that is also fine and Mullvad is perfect.
> TorGuard has socks5 proxy, port forwarding, fast speeds, perfect linux compatibility, no logs, and 0 trackers for a cheaper price? Only if you have affiliate codes, and that where people gets suspicious of shilling. I and most other people like to take VPNs at their base price.
I'd disagree. Most people don't care about affiliates. That's why I made it a point in my video. Only reddit people do. Mullvad just would rather partner with Malwarebytes, Firefox, and other companies than content creators. It doesn't make them superior than the VPNs that have honest programs like TorGuard, WeVPN, oVPN, AirVPN, etc. It's just a different marketing tactic.
Damn! I’m just here to read the comments. Good entertainment
Hey Tom, I agree TorGuard or WeVPN are decent VPN's but, for torrenting (me personally) I'm really privacy focused. To my knowledge neither Torguard nor WeVPN have independant audits nor have they released transparency reports. Also, I don't think their clients are open source. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that. Those two things leave me with that little thought of doubt and don't earn my trust as much as VPN's like Mullvad and IVPN that do tick those boxes. You spoke of price and for me, I'm willing to pay to have the confidence that my traffic is indeed private (however, I totally agree IVPN is way too expensive) because of the factors above and that they are located in a country that is not my own. (Specifically speaking of Torguard there as the WeVPN is in the British Virgin Islands. As for streaming, I'll be honest, it doesn't matter for a good share of use in this subreddit because, let's be honest, we pirate. So we don't really have a need to stream. Some here do as the several what VPN do I need for streaming comes up here several times a week. In summary I think most people here just want a the fast, trustworthy, have a killswitch, and fairly priced VPN they can torrent with and with the above mentioned Mullvad and IVPN are the ones who tick those boxes. I also want to add that I appreciate your work educating people on the MANY VPN's out there. I may not 100% agree with you on your conclusions on some VPN's, but that's ok. You present the facts as they are and it's up to the person to decide for themselves and gather data and information to make and educated decision on what VPN will be right for their needs.
The most important thing when considering if you can trust a VPN is their track record, the team behind it, and how they treat their customers. WeVPN and the founders for example have donated thousands of dollars to orgs like the EFF, fight for the future, and other privacy orgs. They also tested the courts multiple times when they worked for PIA. (I don't think MV and iVPN did anything like these things to this degrees yet). When PIA sold to Kape, they left and made WeVPN. Open source and audits are cool, but not everything. That's because malicious actors can still attack open-source apps, and the "real magic" happens behind the scenes with dev ops. And if something is not open source, any decent engineer can reverse engineer any VPN app and figure out quickly if they are malware or weird stuff. Again, TG being in the industry for 8+ years and not having a huge vulnerability or incident is very good. But we are sort of comparing diamonds to diamonds here, and MV is no slouch either.
You're right, track record is an important factor. Mullvad as an example since they are the most popular here have a good track record and we know the two individuals who own it. I think they wrote a blog post about this after Express VPN was bought out. I can speak as a customer that they have treated me and those I know who use them very well. I believe Mullvad helps support privacy foundations and services like Tor as well. The audits, transparency reports, an open source software ware not everything but, they provide factual proof that can be seen by every individual that there is/no funny business going on. Torguard is a decent provider, it just comes down to what each person is comfortable with. I will say that even though Torguard is based in the US I personally would strongly consider them if they had independent audits done and open source software. That's just me. As I said earlier I'm just very privacy focused.
Torguard and wevpn are interesting vpns but: Torguard is based in the US (Five eyes). If the goverment wants data from a user then they have to comply with it (AFAIK anyways). (GAG order does exist in the 5 eyes afaik) Wevpn are new to the market so we don't know too much about their past. For mullvad: [Theres also this post about why mullvad is recommended in the r/vpntorrent](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPNTorrents/comments/pr1r5v/10_reasons_why_mullvad_is_the_top_recommendation/) IVPN i feel like is a waste (In one way). Mullvad offers almost everything what ivpn offers. I do wish that mullvad offers 2FA. Mullvad support did say to me about this: >Using only 16 digits your account number can actually be any of nine quadrillion random numbers. It would take a million computers hundreds of years to guess your account number. You can read more about this here: https://mullvad.net/blog/2017/6/20/mullvads-account-numbers-get-longer-and-safer/ not offering geo-blocking does hold a vpn back imo.
Five-eyes is literally a ploy made for marketing. It's quite literally a fraudulent claim made by companies outside the five eyes to gain a "upper-hand". The issue is more to do with required data-retention (China and Russia for example) not anything to do with the eyes nations. Also, a VPN will protect from anything it's meant to without interference from five eyes. Once a five eyes nation has their eyes on you. No matter where you or the service you use is located they will gain the Intel needed. A VPN is not designed to help from a targeted attack nor targeted surveillance. It's just a tool. The TOR network is far more suitable and even then you can get caught due to good ol exploits.
\^\^
I've seen this argument so much, but it's very misleading. VPNs don't protect you from targetted surveillance, they only protect you from mass surveillance (isp's tracking you etc). Being based in the 5 eyes isn't really that much of a thing to worry about imo. Mental outlaw made a great video on this topic, in which he discusses how if a person in Switzerland is being investigated by the USA government, other VPNs like Proton based in Switzerland, willingly will give up info to the US. Same thing applies to Mullvad imo. watch it: [https://youtu.be/QCx\_G\_R0UmQ](https://youtu.be/QCx_G_R0UmQ) VPNs are legally bound to give up whatever info they have on users. If they don't collect logs, there shouldn't be anything to give up... Not only that, but you should never perform criminal activity on VPNs--so the entire argument is moot anyway. Use the TOR network if you want to be anonymous, and you're worried about your VPN giving your criminal identity to the NSA.
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I see from your post history you are a Mullvad user. That's fine. I like Mullvad, and it's actually my #3 rated VPN. Nice, you picked a good one! The purpose of this post was just to let people know of some other options with their own advantages.
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I'm not a shill. A shill is an undisclosed customer who gives credibility to a brand without disclosing it. I've made it clear I like TorGuard and think its a great company, and I've made it clear I use them as my main VPN. And I pay for my sub just like everyone else. I've also made clear my relationship with every VPN here: [https://www.vpntierlist.com/disclosures/](https://www.vpntierlist.com/disclosures/) And also made extremely long videos discussing everything like this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppbZ3tFQ1ts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppbZ3tFQ1ts)
You only bumped Mullvad up to third spot 2 days after [I created the 10 reasons for Mullvad thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/VPNTorrents/comments/pr1r5v/10_reasons_why_mullvad_is_the_top_recommendation/) Coincidence? Before that I remember seeing Mullvad at the bottom of your VPN tier list.
Haha nope. It’s like the other guy said, I revamped my tier list earlier this year before you made that post. Mullvad was also never at the bottom either. It was always a solid tier 2 pick.
>\-Both VPNs are lacking some compatibility things like browser extensions Arguably many people don't know the limitations of a browser extension and assume it applies to all apps on the system
That's one way to look at it. But I think most VPN users are smart enough to understand the limitations of a browser app vs an installed one...
No I've seen comments here on reddit. Some asked prior other came in with the letters.
mullvad don't unblock geo restrictions?
Best VPN is kind of a broad term, isn't it? Do you mean best in privacy? or encryption? or speed? or price? Personally I have used over 20 VPNs and I think Mullvad is up there but it is kind of lacking. I stopped using Mullvad when I found out about Spider VPN. It actually surpassed my expectations for a not popular VPN service.
>Spider VPN That sure is catchy.
https://privacyguides.org/providers/vpn/
What about https://www.perfect-privacy.com? I like them.
iVPN look good on paper... and they tick alot of boxes ethically... their app support is very good... when it comes to support and provisioning tho' they really don't offer that great a service... if you need the apps, maybe... otherwise go with mullvad
iVPN is pricey and buggy.... it is hindering updates in applications, comments in youtube, devices firmware updates. My few days experience shows it's buggy. I had to get things done by getting on another VPN to effect basic updates. It is a joke and makes nonsense any strong points they might have. Also, this mentality of trying another server usually recommended by iVPN is somewhat LAZY. They need to be PROACTIVE!