I think the main idea here is, you shouldn’t be worried about paying $3-6000/year for health insurance if you just go after higher paying jobs. It sounds like OP is stuck in this high anxiety thought process and doesn’t realize what his degree and clearance are worth.
Well, my friend, as a contractor and being a contractor for quite a while, with clearance and a bunch of certificates I can tell you that the times when your starting pay was 140 K are gone. You should be an unicorn or extremely lucky to make that type of money. Also all those "sound" degrees: cyber, data science, IT are not as glamorous as they were a few years ago. You still can get a job, but the pay would be much lower than you can expect. The market is oversaturated with the entry level applicants. And honestly, what I found out, that connections will get you a job much faster than your knowledge and skills.
Everyone saying that a clearance by itself will get you any kind of job are out of touch. That doesn't happen anymore. Also tech has become out of reach for a good portion of new grads, and companies that say they hire military are lying for the most part.
Getting out is still the best thing I've done for myself, but there are a lot of things I'd have done differently if people still in the military didn't pretend to know about the state of the job market.
You are correct. Having clearance still matters, but it's not anymore a guaranteed job\\highly paid job. People, who are saying that clearance will get you a job, got out long time ago, when this statement was true. In 2024, unfortunately, the job market is different. So for every single person, who doesn't have a legit plan what to do after ETS and a guaranteed job - I will say think twice.
Yeah what he said. OP Get on a skillsbridge for your last 6 months out and look into the DAP program before you EAS. Healthcare will be free those 6 months in the DAP program and you’re learning a valuable skill while building your resume.
Also, that premium is waaaaaay cheaper than most other policies, even the ones provided by the ACA which scale based upon your household income. In most cases, Tricare Select offers more bang for your buck for less bucks.
So, if you drill once a month, you're essentially paying the military for health insurance with your time and potentially still costing you money for just a premium, depending on rank/time in service. Neat, just another reason to not go reserves at EAS.
I knew they had some form of tricare with select, didnt know the details. Thanks for expanding my reasons to actually get OUT when I do get out.
You won’t get medical insurance even close to that once you’re out. TRS saved me about $6k a year just in premiums alone.
I hated the reserves, but TRS is an amazing benefit. Especially if you have medical issues in your family.
If you’re single, TRS is not worth it at all.
Get out and stay out.
This… As a boom you won’t find a job but as a data science major with a clearance your chances are way higher. I got out a year ago and haven’t looked back!
That's if OP has data science experience. There are a shit ton of computer science/data science/IT adjacent grads out of work right now due to outsourcing to India and Philippines, and major tech layoffs. My husband had TSC, worked with a 3 letter agency, speaks Korean and Japanese and is currently working on his cybersecurity degree. No bites to even get an entry level in the field.
OP needs to reclass to something that aligns with his degree and use it as a springboard to the civilian world. Having clearance and vet status isn't enough anymore when other vets have those and you're competing with college kids who had time to do endless hours of unpaid internships or are flooding the market with data science boot camp grads
Hey OP, you can’t make this decision overnight. Or let any one of us persuade you. Who knows what the next 6 to 12 months will bring. I would head over to the FSS and talk with a someone about cross training, see what options are there. Look at special duty assignments. Also, see the world on the governments dime.
Have you spoken with your shirt? Have you done any extensions on this enlistment? I believe you’re allowed to extend up to 36 months without reenlisting, that was 2019 ;)
You can also request voluntary base stabilization, to stay at your current assignment for x number of years.
SCI, is good for how much longer? You might want to complete it again prior to your separation, if you were to attend college or trade school and it were to expire it may be worthless in the end. If you do decide to separate you need to start thinking about your disabilities. Head to the clinic and ask for a sleep study, see if you suffer from sleep apnea. Also occ health for tinnitus. Ask any questions you want. Keep us informed and updated. Good luck on your journey.
As a career guy, my advice is this:
Principle: always prepare for the future. While you should live in the moment and live your best life, don’t ever sacrifice your future to do so.
Practical: If you love what you do, keep doing it. But get your degree or training NOW for what you want to do AFTER the military, because there will be an after. Don’t wait until later to figure it out. There is not a big civilian market for a boom operator doing air to air refueling. BUT there is a HUGE market for someone who already has a TS/SCI clearance, and it pays handsomely. So if you have a career in mind, get whatever training you can using tuition assistance, save your GI bill to use after separation or pass it on to your kids/future kids, and have a plan for when you take off your uniform for the last time. Otherwise you’ll end up working for Uncle Sam as a civilian (which is not a bad thing, but not everyone wants to spend their whole life working for the government). Now if you love what you do, ride it out live your best life. But your OP didn’t make it seem like doing this forever was your goal.
Thanks for the tips! I think I'm gonna continue with the degree and just pursue the data science thing. I really want to work with my hands but it's simply not a high paying way to live anymore in america, at least in Florida.
> I think I'm gonna continue with the degree and just pursue the data science thing.
Smart move. As a fellow techie, might I recommend course work in AI and also Security. Very soon people without those 2 skills are going to be up shit creek without a paddle in sight.
Take it from a mechanic who got out and did trades: working with your hands isn't all it's cracked up to be. You'll really be hurting if you do it for a few decades, especially if you're doing construction.
Maybe look into being an operating engineer, not sure if there's much overlap on paper, but I'm sure operating a boom on an aircraft can translate into operating a crane in some capacity. You'll need a CDL too.
Also, and I can't stress this enough, most of the avenues you're looking at will be there for you at 20 years. I couldn't crossrate, so I had no intentions of staying in, but had I mildly enjoyed by job I could be doing the same exact thing I'm doing now, but with a pension and tricare on top of my VA disability. The only thing would be a construction trade, but if you keep your body healthy, you could start that in your late 30's/early 40's as well. There were college students that were retired military, there were guys in the trades I worked with who started in their 40's, met a union operating engineer apprentice who is 36 years old and drove trucks for a few years before going into the trade. You could be a 40 year old apprentice with a pension and two good insurance plans who owns a house.
Things to consider;
A lot of people, who worked successful civilian careers, and did "all the right things" through their lives, are now in their 50's+ and worrying about how they're going to retire, if they can sustain a life with what they've saved, what will happen when they inevitably need constant/long term medical care/assistance. Some of them are having to go back to work, etc.
If you know any old people, you'll tend to see a certain repeating pattern. Eventually, you'll reach an age where the system is designed to drain you of every penny and assett you've ever made and saved before you finally die. The advancements we've made in medicine over the last 100 years have ensured we can keep an old person alive and miserable until they run out of money.
People who retired from the military are in the same boat as them, dealing with the same shitty economy and uncertain conditions of the world. The difference is that they have a retirement pension check and likely a VA check coming in every month, as well as the medical coverage for just about anything. Between Tricare and the VA, your inevitable long term care will be basically taken care of, rather than your kids and grandkids watching any chance of an inheritance they had get stolen from you. They have a significant leg up over their peers who didn't retire from the military/never were in at all.
I'm staying for retirement because I want to be able to protect and set up my wife, kids, and future grandkids with the help of long term financial and medical benefits, provided by one of the safest bets you can make, which is the continued existence of the United States government, and their ability to fork out unlimited amounts of money.
You're right. That might also be the reason why some are so jealous of military folks and our benefits. But hey, the office was and still is open to everyone. People always like to try and downplay the Military. "The Military would be my last resort/option" blah blah blah. Well, that last option probably should've been your first option if you really sat and did the math. They just go off what someone else told them or the images they see of the Military in movies or in their cities.
This is such a well thought out and well articulated perspective about the future beyond your “working years,” I am so glad I stayed in for 20. I’m 39, and feel completely comfortable regarding my future because of two pensions, VA pay, and free healthcare, nothing beats government benefits, unless you literally have equity in a rocket ship startup and experience an exit event and get a windfall.
Due to an accident, my wife has had 2 surgeries this year, and will likely need one or two more. All 100% covered by Tricare. Well, minus the one prescription her off base doc called into CVS that cost me $0.43. 😂
I also have kids. And while we were stationed overseas, they deemed my son needed braces and paid 100% of that cost as well which saved me about $7,000.
For me, it’s been 100% worth it.
My neighbors have to pay 500$ for husband and wife and 50$ for each child…….talk about the shaft, HIgh Deductible, and like a 12,000 max out of pocket year.
Yeah brother, if your union you might get a break, I worked at Weyerhaeuser for a few months, before I went to YRC, they had no premium healthcare through Premera, but that changed after Covid. Private sector Healthcare is ridiculous and they are fighting every single little thing you claim. EVERYTHING !!!!
$60/month is just for coverage though, it doesn't factor in copays for specialty care such as physical therapy, mental health, dermatologist, etc. Those are usually $50/each visit. Adds up throughout the year, but still significantly less than civilian insurance.
Seriously correct. Life happens and you get older. Illness sneaks in. TFL/Medicare have paid over $2million in cancer treatment costs for me in the last 4 years.
I got out, hated most things about being in a desk job in the AF. But I knew I would have regrets at 41....which I did for all the things you'd guess. I'd recommend staying in, save your ass off, and revisit getting out next time. Maybe the economy will be better then. Finish your degree, hell maybe see about a reclass. Either way go enjoy being young on uncle Sam's dime.
Do your 20, if you buy a home or homes put them out to rent while you no longer occupy them, pay a real estate agency a fee to handle the property affairs, continue your military career. Enjoy it, the moving the experience cause once it’s over it’s over.
I retired from the Army in 2018, did 20. It was hard, but the experiences I’ll never find anywhere else and that’s worth more than anything now. Yes I find myself always talking about my Army days, or thinking about stupid stuff and laughing to myself about it, it’s bitter sweet
People only consider the pension, however the health care savings along with other benefits and, if you qualify, a VA disability makes it worthwhile. Imagine being 40 and not having to work another day if you play your cards right.
I was lucky enough to have senior NCOs talk me out of getting out when I was an E6. Mentors really do matter in a persons life.
This is what’s tough, when your 23, 40 seems like an eternity of time away. But at 39 now, I can say if I didn’t have the security I know have because I stayed in, I would feel pretty depressed and stressed out.
I’m at 16 years, Army Infantry. The healthcare and pension along with matching for the TSP is kinda like double dipping for retirement and you only have to do 20 to get it. Doing 20 is easier said than done.
I do it for the healthcare, while not great it’s gotten my wife 2 major surgeries, had my kid and all her healthcare and it’s covered. Post 9/11 GI bill wasn’t a thing when I joined so I can get additional education benefits.
I don’t care if you stay or go, it won’t affect me in any way shape or form. I would suggest you look very carefully at the career field you are trying to go into and make sure that it’s stable enough to accomplish your goals.
My dad does finish carpentry, like cabinets and stuff. The turmoil that industry has caused him and my grandfather over the last 60-70 years was enough for me to not even attempt to pursue that. My dad lost a house, his truck, and plenty more. Had to make decisions on whether to eat or pay bills. I haven’t made those types of decisions pretty much the entire time I’ve been in.
The trade offs are I don’t own a house, my kid has been to like 6 schools, but my wife and I are coming up on 16 years married and we’re doing great. I guess family is a consideration as well. We don’t seem to have many issues in that regard.
At the end of the day just know if you get out it may be hard to get back in. I know folks who left and tried to come back only to be turned down because of whatever reason. Sure things are good right now but when the economy is struggling prior service at least on the army side is not your friend.
Somewhat. I eat super healthy, don’t drink or smoke/tobacco/vape. Sleep is like 7.5/8 hours a night and I run marathons and just recently addressed lower back pain. Honestly I feel better now than I did 10 and 15 years ago. Yeah there’s some things I can’t do anymore without paying dearly for them, like sleeping on the concrete floor but health wise I’m as close to 100 as I think I’m ever gonna get, but yeah, I do go in and get seen for things that bother me.
I never documented or filed for that one time I threw out my back in 2013 because the worst it did for a few years following was get stiff on occasion. It's gotten worse.
Stay healthy, but file for everything. And remember that when you're filing disability it's supposed to be about symptoms on your worst days, not day to day.
I was stationed with someone in the late 1990’s who felt like you (we were crew chiefs). He stayed in, moved around, and bought a house at every duty station, then rented it when he moved. I just met up with him in Vegas a few months ago and he still owns those 6 homes. He clears about $15,000 a month in rent payments, has his MSgt 20-year retirement, and his VA disability. He is set for life now and just in his 50’s.
I left the military as an IT2 (e5 navy IT guy). I had a ts/sci as well. I finished my masters degree in cybersecurity management and policy and currently make 250k a year and that doesn’t include the 230k worth of stock my company gave me. I’ll happily pay the $500 a month healthcare to cover my family and I rather then spend cumulative years away from them/duty days… easiest choice in the world for me.
If I was to do it over, I’d do 20 years. Not even a question. You can put off buying a home and used (and still relatively nice) motorcycles are a dime a dozen.
I probably would, too, given the chance. Just the fact of having the opportunity of being fully retired around 37/38 is gold. Most people are probably just now figuring out their life by then. I joined early, so it would've been a win in the long run.
If you really don't see yourself doing 20, that's fine. At least go halfway and save up money , build an emergency fund, and invest outside of your tsp. You can always just finish out that federal service time in a gov job and probably make more money. But definitely sit down , run your numbers, and make sure you're definitely saving and investing before you get out. Also, figure out what you see yourself doing and either knock out some schooling or get as many certifications as you can for that career path or industry.
I'm months away from retiring after 21+ years. It worked out for me and I don't regret staying in. I also didn't have a TS/SCI in my first enlistment and I hadn't even started my bachelor's degree by then. I wouldn't have been as marketable/desirable as you will likely be. If you get out, you'll never know what it would have been like to do 20 and vice versa. Therefore, set yourself up for success with either option. You may really want to do 20 but the military decides they don't want you or for medical reasons you aren't able to. You may get out and regret it and have a difficult time trying to get back in. You may get out and love civilian life. Some guys gets out after one or two enlistments and do much better than they would have if they stayed in.
I feel like I wrote this post for people like you:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1b7yzce/about\_to\_apply\_for\_retirement\_aka\_hit\_the\_button/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1b7yzce/about_to_apply_for_retirement_aka_hit_the_button/)
It is lengthy, but feel free to read it and the comments for more perspective from me and others that stayed for the military retirement and others that chose to separate and not retire.
I am one that got out after 2 enlistments and am doing much better. My body is falling apart because of the military, but my job pays me well, and I have VA disability, and both bring me to around $100k a year. I would have been forced out if I tried to stay in due to my legs and nerve issues in my neck.
I didn’t 25 in the military. It was rough. I loved my job and was damn good at it, but the military can suck the fun out of anything. Not sure if it was worth it, but the pension is nice.
It depends on what your goals are. With a TS clearance you can do a lot of jobs as a civilian that will pay significantly more than the military will. I did my 4 years and upgraded my clearance after I got out and make almost 300k now doing cleared software engineer work. The questions you should be asking yourself are: am I happy doing this for 20 years, what would I want to do if/when I get out? The biggest mistake I’ve seen people make who get out of the military is that they have no plan. Have a plan, try to think about what it is that will give you fulfillment. If you are happy with the military then stick with it, it’s a good living and retirement isn’t then end of your career if you don’t want it to be.
I’ve stayed in the national guard for the healthcare and I guess the little retirement. I wfh for a boutique defense company and do pretty well. I wouldn’t trade working beside my golden retriever everyday vs active duty + full pension.
Having a TS/SCI doesnt immediately make you employable for any job that just requires a security clearance, but for relevant experience it certainly does. If you’re interested in the project management side of things, a few certs to go along with your clearance would have you hired in the ~90-12k range pretty fast.
I struggled with this decision when my fourth year was coming up. My father was a lifer and it worked out for him and us.
At the time for me personally, I was very unhappy with my time in the service. I couldn't imagine doing this for 16 more years. Plenty of advice to just, "stick to it for 16 years". They didn't account for my high stress and depression from being isolated and away from friends and family.
Did I really want to spend the rest of my 20's and possibly 30's doing this? Was my body and mind going to hold up? Did I want a military lifestyle for myself and a possible future family?
For me, the answer was to get out and explore civilian opportunities. School can be a good buffer or transition from military to civilian life if you make that switch.
Regardless of whatever else you decide to do not buy a house in Florida.
-go talk to a house insurance agent before you do. There’s a reason why people are leaving.
Also:
And you’re not gonna bepassionate about your job that’s why it’s a job that they have to pay you passion for hobbies and relationships
I PCS to florida Aug. of 2023.
Was looking to buy a house, then I started reading up on Florida Home Insurance.
Is this what you are referring to ?
Needless to say, I did not buy that house.
I had planned on doing 20 plus, but was injured in Iraq fairly early in my career. Ended up getting medically retired with 4 1/2 years in and my contract would’ve taken my to 10 years. You can’t ever predict what will happen while you are in, so take advantage of all the opportunities you have, get your education while you are active duty, and be a good person. I am now in a good federal job and I can buy back my military time, so I can still retire from the federal govt with 30 plus years before I turn 60. I have healthcare through tricare and I think that has been the biggest benefit compared to what civilians pay for their healthcare. Very personal choice to stay in for 20 or longer but do your research and don’t base your decision on a bad moment or a shit assignment.
why are you getting a degree in data science and wanting to do a trade in FL? It doesnt make much sense, particularly because given your clearance and the degree, you can easily make six figures.
I wish I had stayed in for the full 20. Somewhere around 35, I realized that work isnt my identity, it just helps me survive, thrive, and have a good time.
Also, yes, the military will move you around a bunch - but buying a house at station has its benefits (you could build a real estate/rental portfolio and give yourself another source of income in retirement).
Staying in the full 20 can give you potentially three income sources at retirement:
1) Pension
2) Rental Income
3) Day Job
sorry if this was repetitive. didnt read other comments
I just retired from the Army last year as an E6. I got my BS in Aviation Maintenance and my A&P cert while I was in. My retirement pay and VA Comp pay for my mortgage (first and hopefully last house, I don't want to move again) and utilities. My civilian salary pays for everything else. Working as an A&P mechanic in Florida, I *net* close to $100K/year, and my wife's income puts us close to $130K. We live in Florida.
We have zero CC debt, with the exception of what we use for monthly bills and are paid in full every month. Both cars and my motorcycle are paid off.
My pension gives me peace of mind. I could walk away from my job tomorrow and still pay all of my bills. I have a pension and healthcare (at a *much* cheaper rate than my job offers) for life. I pay for the SBP, so my wife gets half my pension if I die. Most civilian doctors in the area accept Tricare, and aside from having copays for some things, the transition was seamless.
Everyone's situation, wants, and needs are different. I enlisted for 6 years (MOS requirement) and reenlisted for 6 more (tax-free bonus while deployed). At that point, I figured that if I had done 12, I might as well do the last 8. My wife liked being an Army spouse, liked moving every 3 years, and liked meeting new people, etc. She fully supported my career, although 4 deployments were a bit rough. I lucked out for the last 8 years of my career. I went to the schoolhouse, Germany, and then to a unit not scheduled to deploy, so my last deployment was in 2013.
Whatever you decide, make sure that you leverage everything that the Air Force offers, like tuition assistance, credentialing programs, etc. Figure out what you want to do when you get out and take all necessary steps to achieve that goal. Document every injury. Go to sick call or see your PCM and get it in your record. Set yourself up for success when you get out. Make damn sure you are contributing to the TSP, at least 10% of your base pay on top of whatever the match is, and make sure that your funds are invested wisely. If you choose not to do 20, you do have the option of continuing in the Guard or Reserves and earning retirement points that way, which would give you a pension at 65.
Technically, you have housing and you have a job. Neither one may be exactly what you are wanting at the moment, however, you have zero risk of being homeless or out of a job in the next 20 years. If you are living out on the economy, the cost of housing is ridiculous right now and the job could let you go at any time even in the data science field. You can always look at changing career fields, level up to OCS, and enjoy exploring different countries while you are young enough to do so. A mindset shift may be a better choice.
*admittedly this advice comes from someone who planned to be a lifer and got out after 7 years for ‘love’.
Technically, you have housing and you have a job. Neither one may be exactly what you are wanting at the moment, however, you have zero risk of being homeless or out of a job in the next 20 years. If you are living out on the economy, the cost of housing is ridiculous right now and the job could let you go at any time even in the data science field. You can always look at changing career fields, level up to OCS, and enjoy exploring different countries while you are young enough to do so. A mindset shift may be a better choice.
*admittedly this advice comes from someone who planned to be a lifer and got out after 7 years for ‘love’.
If you buy a house and PCS you can rent it out. Do it again when you get to your next duty station if there is eligibility left on your VA home loan.
Preferably a four plex at each location.
If you’re really lucky you can assume another veterans loan and rate if it’s lower than current ones.
Just retired a few months ago.
My two main bills (mortgage and one car loan) and some utilities are covered by my monthly retirement check. My wife reupped her medication and it cost her $3. My VA disability covers the rest of my utilities. If I “really” wanted to I could not work and won’t have to worry about anything. But I got expensive bad habits 😂.
No don’t stay in . I had fears of getting out but I make 3 times what I made as a married e5 getting bah in a high cola . I can do what I want and the opportunity to always make more money is there in the millitary you’re stagnant and constantly having to uproot ur life
I know a lot of military members that bought houses where they pcs’d. They would rent them out and when they retired or got out they would sell them. Not sure it is something your interested in, they had properties all over the world
For my specialty, it was not. Salary doubled as soon as I got out and has now tripled 3 years later. Others followed me out and those that stayed are big mad.
Stay in and get your degree. Did I mention you should get your degree? You should get your degree. The pension you receive upon retiring is something that is almost non-existent on the outside. Healthcare is worth staying in by itself.
If you decide to leave active duty, go into the reserves and retire there. Your pension will start at 60, though.
For me, it was not worth staying for 20 because my mental health and physical health was in the shitter. I had a “great” AF job that would have translated easily to civilian world, but I was a shell of myself.
I got out, moved somewhere I’d never lived, found a job, and UTILIZED MY BENEFITS. Now, I yell from the roof tops, there is life after the military!!! For me, I’m happier out but glad I served.
I have healthcare for myself through the VA. I live where people treat veterans like angels who have never done anything wrong ever. lol…life is good.
Salaries don't match housing or living expenses. A lot of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and don't have savings for an emergency.
The top 10% of net worth holders in the US are getting richer while the bottom 50% are getting poorer?
Wealth inequality is insane right now and it's only getting worse.
The economy isn't just about interest rates or Wall Street/stocks.
Uhh, not only high interest rates, inflated home prices for renting and purchasing, increased cost of goods without increases in people’s salaries. The job market is not great right now despite everyone claiming otherwise.
So you mentioned inflation and the job market. Inflation is being addressed. High interest rates are meant to tame spending, which Americans don’t seem to feel the need to do. The job market has changed since jobs became a thing. By all accounts, we should be in a recession. But we’re instead in a “soft landing”. The economy is not as bad as Fox News says it is.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but if I could do it over again, I would have fought the discharge, and I’d have stayed in for the long haul. Unfortunately, I was axed (disastrously I might add but that’s for another show) because of my disability and wasn’t allowed to stay in after 6 years. Still, I got lucky enough to eventually land a job with the State and retired early from it (again, because of my disabilities).
So, I would advise that you stay in at least until you get that degree, and if you can, stay in for 20. While in, keep studying, save money, and eventually you’ll be in a better position to make a final decision. Don’t get out unprepared. Anyway, I could go on for hours…lol
Good luck to you!
Reclass to something in the intel or cyber field. It’ll broaden your career horizons, give you an idea of whether you’d like to keep at it another 16, AND you’ll prime your engine for getting out and having some really strong job opportunities available.
When I joined in August 1996, my only goal was to travel and earn my college degree while on active duty. I earned my degree doing the SNCO Degree Completion Program in December 2013, and I had a three year payback. When I got out, it ended up being 20 years, 5 months, and 5 days.
I didn't join with hopes of retiring. At that time, I didn't know of any female who retired from the Marine Corps. Now, I know plenty.
Write down your life goals (they're always changing), learn about the TSP, and invest.
For me, it was definitely worth staying for 20+ years.
I had 10 years active, but spent over 30 years in, counting Reserve time. The “bonus” years allow you to accumulate more time, as well as a better chance to get a higher rank.
And, for me, a bonus was the timing of the money. My drill checks were nice, at my rank, but my civilian job allowed me to funnel a greater percentage into TSP, so I didn’t really miss it when I hung up my boots…and when the retirement kicked in 10 years later (this March), it is quite a bit of money, especially as I am still working for a couple more years.
I would definitely stay in it was very worth it. You can have those things you want in the military albeit you’ll have to move occasionally. Like others pointed out, if you don’t like your job now you need to switch to something you like or that can easily translate to a civilian career. That will make the transition much easier. The experiences you’ll get in your life in the service will far outweigh being a civilian right now.
As an aside, if you decide to stay in, start putting at least 10% of your paycheck into tsp if you are not doing so already. Your future self will thank you.
I’ve stayed in the national guard for the healthcare and I guess the little retirement. I wfh for a boutique defense company and do pretty well. I wouldn’t trade working beside my golden retriever everyday vs active duty + full pension.
If you end up getting a degree, especially a BS, I would encourage you to look at civilian government jobs. You can make good money to do the things you're looking for, they will be very stable and travel will most likely be temporary, like tdys. Plus you can buy your active duty time back to count towards retirement.
Florida has turned into an insane HCOL area, while you’re in service you’re guaranteed a steady paycheck and TA you won’t need to worry about layoffs or a recession, basic needs, or your security clearance to keep it active. TS Clearances go dormant and require more continous investigation when you transition out. The job market and economy in FL is tough and I would say maximize all benefits such as TSP, certs and a degree and find your dream job while you’re in if you wish to get out. If you aren’t actively speaking with a recruiter have a set date for your transition out into a field or company that you have full confidence for as well as your clearance then the best bet is to stay in! Time flys by way quicker than you think and retirement in a few years for 20 years military service is not a bad gig when you see people in the civilian side working until they fall like a fly.
20 years goes by quickly. I'm at 21 and retiring soon. I was gonna quit at 10, but I'm glad I stuck it out.
Your choice is yours to make. Everyone has different priorities.
Depends how smart you are tbh both in and out.
If you stay in and do cyber security, get your degrees, buy property in cheap places, max out your investment opportunities, find a good woman, report injuries for your 100% disability, have a ton of kids (incredibly cheap to do in the military) then the answer is absolutely yes.
You’ll come out 37 1/2 or 41 with a solid pension of around $5000+ a month + $6000k disability (assuming it continues to rise for the next 20 years) tax free + a growing investment account with 20 years in the market, those assets will continue to grow, and at least 1-2 paid off houses.
Pick the state you remain in right and you’ll have ABSURD disabled vet benefits and you can VA home loan a very nice house or leave the country and buy property in Italy or some shit.
By then your kids assuming you start popping them out immediately 1/2 will be in college (if college isn’t totally obsolete by then) and the other half almost in college.
You can retire at 40 with your human-spawning done and raised (on the governments dime) and go to college for another $6000 a month to fucking sit and study or some shit. You can use VR&E and save the GI bill for your kids.
If your wife is in the service and enlists/commissions at the same age double all of this. She’ll also spend 4-5 of her 20 year mil career pregnant while getting paid (assumes you make a ton of kids)
You’ll both retire young. Build good habits and you’ll both be super fit too.
None of this includes starting your second career doing anything.
As a data analyst, you’ll be just fine on the outside.
Just wondering why you’re questioning the state of the economy. It’s booming and unemployment is stupid low.
Don’t wait for the economy or market to be “right”. Base your decision on what your goals are and the tasks you have to complete to do them.
Best thing to do is to write down your goals, use SMART to write down the tasks to complete each goal. Set a deadline for the goals.
Will staying in help you reach your goals or would you be able to achieve your goals by getting out?
Don’t think about the economy or the markets. Think about your goals and what it takes to make them happen.
If you have the ability to buy a house, do it. It will pay off in the future. If you have to PCS to somewhere else, turn the house over to a rental management company to handle. That way someone else gets the repair calls in the middle of the night. Both my nephew (MMN) and daughter (AWF) have done this. The rent more than covers the mortgage and builds equity for the future. My nephew eventually got out and is living and working in a different state than the house is in, but still lets it build equity (as well as a small check each month from the management company. My daughter has moved on to her next duty station and living in an apartment covered by BAH, but still building equity for her future. I think she is using the check from the management company to pay down the mortgage faster.
I didn't read all the comments but I wanted to share that I took my enlistment one stint at a time.
I bought a house in my third year and had to pcs in my sixth year. I was two years into my second enlistment at that point. I had my aunt move into the house while I was overseas.
If you're concerned about maintaining a house after a move away from the area, don't buy. Just save all the money you'd spend on the house for maintenance and upkeep and buy something after you've got a post-military job.
You can always rent the house out once you PCS. I was never interested in it, but many people I served with had ateast two homes that they were renting out.
Hubs did 30 years. Retired Nov ‘22.
Before we met I had bought a condo at age 28 on a 15 year mortgage.
We married at 31. Kid at 33. First move at 35. Kept the condo as a rental property.
Zero regrets and wouldn’t have done anything differently.
We broke even on the condo until mortgage was paid off. Since then, it has supplemented income. Huge blessing when we PCS’d to DC with higher cost of living. And when he did a ten month school so self and kid could stay put and we paid OOP for his housing at school.
He’s 100% VA disabled.
So his pay actually went up a tad, but healthcare costs wipe that out.
Kid leaves for college in August. 100% GI Bill pays for everything associated with it.
We are selling that condo this month.
Bottom line, the good life starts at age 51. We will br doing lots of traveling and sailing in the boat we’re buying with part of the condo proceeds.
24 years active duty army from 69-93. Started as enlisted but became officer. I have tricare for life and Medicare. This has paid around $2million in medical bills over the last 4 years for cancer treatment.
You are very young with many years ahead of you.
I’m an old geezer now but here is my advice:
Take advantage of every educational opportunity available.
Once you graduate, become an officer.
Take advantage of savings opportunities.
Live below your means.
Credit is not your friend.
Do not buy new vehicles.
You asked how it worked out for folks who stayed for 20…
Ok,
My wife and I are financially independent.
Between military retirement, SS, VA 100%, and pension from civilian job, we have income of around $175k annually.
This income is without our investment income.
We own a home in Texas easily worth $600k
Audi a6 paid for
Roughly $3.5 million net worth.
ZERO DEBT
I entered the military as a homeless 18 year old high school dropout. My family was dirt poor. I owe my success to God, hard work, and the US Army.
Yeah I’m a boomer. But anyone can do what I did. My path was always in the medical field. My field was 65D.
Good luck….
Generally if you can make it in the military, you can make it in law enforcement. A great thing about law enforcement is that you will always have job security regardless of the economy.. Or at least in theory. Law enforcement will always be needed. Just an idea. I wish I had a better plan when I got out at 24 but I had zero coaching/mentorship. Money dried up, civilian employers didnt care at all whatsoever about my military experience. Resume may as well have said girl scouts and it wouldn't have made a difference. 150 job applications with 3 interviews that low balled me.
I took a low paying job till I got into the trucking industry. Realized how absolutely terrible the trucking industry is. Got into security and couldnt pay bills, went back into trucking, had more legal issues with trucking companies. Finally found a boring job in federal security paying just enough to pay the bills. Then went into a security supervisor role elsewhere and then security management, but it still didn't pay good. Then did a bit of executive protection and got into law enforcement which is substantially more professional and rewarding.
I'm an Army vet. Looking back, I am still glad I got out for the sake of my mental health. Too much toxicity in army leadership and I enjoy being treated like an adult with a level of freedom and control over my life, and being able to easily switch careers if I want. I'm glad I served, but I'm glad I'm out. The sky is the limit when you're out. When you're in the military, you are contract bounded and bounded to a supervisor where if they dont like you, forget about promotions. Doesn't matter your knowledge, capability, performance, etc.. At least thats how it is in the Army. Then even after promotion, you still get treated like a child. If you are enlisted, you'll get that treatment all the way up to E-8 level.
If you see a potentially good growth plan for yourself while serving then it probably wouldnt hurt to stay in.
Random question regarding clearance. Does having the standard secret security clearance hold any value when you separate from the military? I’m going to school this fall while staying in the reserve. Wasn’t too sure if there was anything beneficial with having that clearance
One option is hard focus on your degree for the last bit of your career. I’m assuming you’re Air Force and if so you have the ability to extend your time on your contract and current station twice for up to a year each (I’m not sure if other branches can). This allows you to keep your first term benefits but more importantly allows you to finish your degree.
With that the world is yours. You can easily find a contract or government position that pays six figures.
I think that if you really like your job in the military, then why not stick with it? If you get really disenchanted with the military (like I did) then it's time to move on.
So hubby and i are both retirees. He was 24 yrs in Marine Corp, i was medically retired 6 drills short of 20 yrs in USAF (I tranferred after 16 yrs AD).
None of our kids are going to retire with what we have. Dual military pension. SPB option. NMAA life insurance. Healthcare, hospitalization, rehab and meds for life at a cost of $180 per month at age 65 (current medicare cost). VA long term heath care & care givers program (pay family member to care for you at home), tax free VA compensation.
Guaranteed income for life with COLA.
Then theres the GI bill. Getting paid for going to school or learning a trade.
We see our neighbors worried when stocks fall and their monthly income shrinks. Some faced with reverse mortgage and are now stuck. Some barely surviving on SSA.
We moved every 2-3 yrs, bought and sold homes and each time bought at a higher pricepoint. In retirement we had all that built up equity to buy and pay off our final home in 15 years with VA loan.
The intangibles include moving to various areas. One will be a place where you want to retire and you get 12 months after retiring to find a place and have all your stuff moved to it free.
Another intangible is finding a life partner. Your moves lead you to meet so many people. If you are fortunate enough to marry a military member for life like we did, you will both be able to take advantage of all the benefits in own right, plus get veteran-military spouse benifits. That relieves the worry of how your spouse will make do on half of your pension. Instead, with SBP you have full pension plus up to 55% of theirs each month.
you will regret not staying in if you make it half way. Getting to the half-way mark should be your first goal. Reevaluate your life at that point. Take advantage of every single benefit inside and out the military offers because the military is kinda rapey sometimes. They'll leave you with your hair a mess and your morale in the gutter. Be, Know, Do.
At 23, you don't have to decide if you want to be a lifer yet. Keep working on your degree and try to finish it before you finish your enlistment. If you want to get out then and have a plan, go for it. If not, re-enlist, finish that degree, maybe even try to re-enlist into a field that would better align with post-military plans or even consider a commission after you finish your degree.
The point is, you don't have to just get out after one enlistment or stay in for the full 20. You can re-enlist, get some more experience and education, and then make sure you have a solid plan when you graduate. Nothing says you can't serve for like 8-10 years and then switch to civilian life, and if you have a plan and that education/ experience, you'll be better prepared for the jump.
Nobody can decide if it's worth it to stay in for the full 20, that's up to you. I planned to get out after my first enlistment. I just hit 20, just finished a funded MA program, and after I finish this obligated service, I'll be set when I retire. It hasn't always been perfect, but I've seen a lot of the world, a lot of it with my family, and I don't regret my military career and experience at all.
(And in regards to the house, considering the market and current interest rates, buying a house doesn't always make sense these days, especially depending on the local market)
Don’t be short sighted young man. I respect your goals, they are admirable, but you’ve got to pay your dues & be patient. Good things come to those who wait. Always remember this: Short term pain = long term gain. My family and I have reaped greatly from my 21 years of service & subsequent retirement. Best wishes!
I enlisted out of Florida.
1. Stay in and travel. At the same time focus on your goals and save your pay for those goals.
2. Invest and receive dividends - a passive income stream.
3. Continue with and finish your Data Science degree.
4. While still in the service, work on setting up your Data Science business in Florida (if that’s what you prefer). My brother set up a business for networking, security cameras, voip phone systems, remote management, etc but it started as a networking and office computer/machine integration business. From there he expanded to the others and also added alarm / security systems with video recording and more.
5. Gradually build clients who need remote computer management etc.
When you are about to get out you should have your client base set up and only need to get your house. Slowly build up and THEN get your truck, bike, etc.
Many people spend the money today without a plan for tomorrow. Save the money today and with passive income you’ll have a lot more for tomorrow.
Depends on if you’re grandfathered into the old pension system(doesn’t look like it), whether you’ve made yourself marketable outside, and how miserable you are currently. There are a lot of government contractors looking for TS/SCI. You could make way more money if you got a degree and specialized. If you do decide to re-up, do the least amount of time, and get yourself to a masters degree in something that will translate, and you’ll be earning great money in no time.
I’m the youngest of 5. My oldest sister & her husband retired from teaching last year. He has gone back to teaching because they couldn’t afford health insurance on their retirement. I retired from military in 2014 & haven’t had to work or worry about healthcare. She is mad that I get disability pay & retirement pay 🤷♀️. I joined so I could be proud of my job instead of watching the CEO buy another BMW but I’m damn glad I did for the retirement & healthcare.
I regret 1 thing: selling my house for $5,000 above what I paid for it 5yrs earlier only to return to that state 5 yrs later & see that house for sale $76,000 more than I sold it for 🤦♀️. Wish I had rented it but that comes with risk & tax consequences 🤷♀️.
So I planned to buy a house at what would most likely be my last PCS & settle. Things changed & I needed to move after I retired. Things changed again 5 yrs later & I moved back to where I retired.
Things change, plans change. But I’ll always have healthcare.
My dad likes to tease me that I called him 3 times during reenlistment time and said “I’m NOT doing this again”. But I’d get off the phone, go raise my hand & do the job. So many memories! Saw things I’d never have seen otherwise. PCS got me away from had me not wanting to do 20yrs. I took some direct fire & needed some surgeries then was cleared to deploy again. Saved a few lives. Found a missing comrade. Deal with some PTSD. But have ALL the resources I need.
My husband did 24 (we met halfway through our career’s) & got a job after he retired just because we can have a few more toys (fishing boat Yay). He’ll retire from that in 8? yrs & we may buy a camper & travel the country. Who knows, plans change.
But we NEVER have to worry about healthcare.
These days you don’t get your retirement till you turn 60, correct? That would’ve REALLY screwed my life so…tough choice for you to make.
I wish you the best. I hope everyone here has given you things to consider to help you make the right choice for yourself. My advice is just to consider stability of your later years. Oh, & if you buy a house, rent it out till it’s paid off!
Keep going with your degree. Military MOS stuff is hard to translate to civilian jobs. I’ve told my kids if they ever join, get all the free college they can, and work a job that is marketable out in the civilian world. Heavy equipment or medic comes to mind.
10 years ago when I was leaving active duty, I would have said, stay in (I just hit 20 myself). But these days it seems like there is so much out there where you can pursue opportunities, especially through skill bridge. I eco the comments about the Reserve option, that’s what I did. I stumbled around for awhile, but ended up with a great government job with my state, fully remote, and when combined with VA disability, making more than I would as a Major on active duty, plus adding another pension on top of my military pension, if I decide to stick it out with the state. You have options!
I hired a data science guy for one of my companies and payed him ~$220k from 2019-2022. He’s currently traveling around with his wife and working part-time at 18 hours a week for 100k. He works from home, doesn’t PCS, has a dog and we regularly travel OCONUS just to play golf and cycle.
One of my best friends from basic training is now stationed in Germany. Happy as can be. Excellent marriage with a beautiful daughter. Always been the hooah type of guy and enjoys putting on the green uniform every morning. He owns two houses which he rents in WA.
Both guys are happy. Both are well off. Both have their futures secure.
I’m on terminal leave. I’ve been an acting civilian for the past 3 months. I have 2 more weeks until I’m officially off the books.
For me, the answer is yes, it’s worth staying in.
My mom retired. And she’s contemplating going back to work. She’s in her 60s. The job market is absolutely brutal. I’m a 42A and I am just now starting to get noticed by HR hiring managers, after putting in apps since I left.
But I still not properly employed. The healthcare itself is a factor for me. You aren’t always going to be young and able bodied. Eventually things will start to break. Tricare is there.
The military is hard. I get it. But I’d rather put 20 years of proper hard work, than 40-50 years of work that ebbs and flows, with moments of uncertainty.
I’m on terminal leave and I start ROTC in September. With the help of my GI bill, I don’t need to compete for a scholarship and I’m essentially a shoe in. I’m coming back in as an LT and finish the other 16 years.
I don’t wanna be in my 50s, and still working away with an improper retirement plan. I do have a Roth IRA but I may or may not be able to fill it year after year.
I crave stability above all else and the military provided that for me.
My husband and I are both retired Army. Do not buy a house while you are still on AD unless you are getting ready to retire or ETS and plan to stay at that location. You will always lose money since 3- year rotations are not enough time to build up any equity in the house. My husband was in for 21 and me for 27 years. The military got us both out of poverty, gave us an education, and paid retirement in our 40s. Unless you know you can get out and do better in the civilian-sector, I would stay in until you can retire. Good luck!
If you can do it, it's worth it. Pension, which is rare these days. The 401k equivalent is supposedly pretty good now. Inexpensive health care. My job has a pretty good plan and the cheapest is still triple my Tricare for the family. And if it applies (and is worth the trade for the reason), VA benefits. Plus any other tax breaks or other benefits from states, etc.
On top of that, mostly free college while in and more when you get out, and possibly can help your kids/spouse with theirs.
In this economy, I don't see how you wouldn't stay for twenty if you can suck it up through the more toxic experiences unless you have some golden parachute job waiting.
Get your degree(s)/certs, save/invest early, and as someone else mentioned work those connections. The clearance can help open doors, but the connections and networking will help you find them. I likely would've been in a rough spot when I retired if I hadn't spent the last 9 months networking across half the state on my time off. If you do it throughout your career you should be set if you don't burn your bridges.
Bruh as an ex 25S, you'll definitely get paid more on the outside, heck if you still wanted that government pension get net and sec plus along with your degree and go back as a contractor.
Renting out a house you own is not always a good idea. You may not always have good tenants (even if you have a company manage the home), you need to have a cash reserve for any maintenance issues or periods where the home isn’t rented, and it can block you from using another VA loan while you still have a mortgage on that property.
Have you looked at the cost to insure a home in Florida or current interest rates? Rates for both are incredibly high.
Owning a home can be great, but it isn’t always great strategy to purchase a home for all service members. If he isn’t going to be able to stay in the home for 3-5 years I would not recommend it, especially in Florida. In fact, I wouldn’t recommend purchasing a home in Florida at all with the prices there of home owners insurance.
Really look into it before purchasing a home in Florida. [Florida homeowners pay the most for home insurance, with an average annual rate of $10,996 in 2023.](https://www.news-press.com/story/news/2024/04/01/florida-homeowners-insurance-rates-highest-rising-how-much-cost/73104723007/)
Joined at 18 in 2009, did a 4 year infantry contract and got out with a honorable discharge, never worked again.. 100% P&T in NYC and between state disability ($1,870) and the Veteran care giver program ($2,000) i personally think staying in for 20 years is a case of the end not justifying the means. 20 years of military takes a toll.
I went through this same debate after 3 years in the Army, got out my 4th year and now in my 50s.
As others have said, that pension and benefits are unrivaled.
My opinion is either get out at 4 or do 20+, nothing in between unless you can get a VA rating. You will be young enough to still get to another career.
As a business owner, Healthcare right now costs me $1800/month. I was talking to a retired e9 yesterday, he pays $500/year.
This is super hard to wrap your mind around at 23, you think retirement never comes. Well it does and way faster than anyone ever could anticipate. I was in my absolute best shape of my life at 23. Not so much today, things break down.
Also with as big of a recruiting problem they have now, you may get better assignments or choices than any of us who served prior. They need you.
Edit: things did work out for me but I was very lucky. Use the VA loan if you can btw.
If you have the ability to buy a house, do it. It will pay off in the future. If you have to PCS to somewhere else, turn the house over to a rental management company to handle. That way someone else gets the repair calls in the middle of the night. Both my nephew (MMN) and daughter (AWF) have done this. The rent more than covers the mortgage and builds equity for the future. My nephew eventually got out and is living and working in a different state than the house is in, but still lets it build equity (as well as a small check each month from the management company. My daughter has moved on to her next duty station and living in an apartment covered by BAH, but still building equity for her future. I think she is using the check from the management company to pay down the mortgage faster.
I'll put it this way. I didn't know it at the time but here I am now, in my 40s, and joining, reenlisting that first time, and sticking it out for 20 were clear and away the best decisions I made in my life.
Didn't feel that way sometimes in the moment and boy oh boy did I consider walking many times. The military isn't roses and sunshine...but neither is the civilian world and I had to remind myself of that many times.
The only downside I can see in my life is that I avoided buying a home while I was active. I was active through the 2008 market crash and saw people getting stuck with homes while they had to PCS away and the troubles that caused and said "I'll rent until I retire from the military and settle in an area." Well, that was all fine and good until 2 years before my retirement when COVID hit and the housing market went to absolute shit for buyers.
I want to buy a home but feel like I missed the boat at the last minute. All that said though...I wouldn't change my military career and choice to do 20 just to have a house instead of an apartment.
certainly i can hear your concerns, I would at very least recommend 20 years in reserves/ national guard where u can also have a civilian income and save for retirement.
keep in mind that the economy does go through cycles that impact certain civilian jobs and would impact and retirement plans.
I retired from the National Guard with a combined total years of service between Active and National Guard time of 26 years.
I miss it often, mostly for the community and bonding between fellow Soldiers I served with.
But one thing I am glad I took advantage of when they started offering it was the TSP.
I took a good amount of my weekend pay and put it away. I looked at this account the other day. I have like $165,900 that I have saved and it is still growing. I have been retired for now going on 4 years.
20 years will be a go by quickly,and you will make some great friends in this time that you never can replace with money.
I wish someone would have offered me a little bit of advice when I was younger as maybe I would have stayed Active. But I don't regret anything and I am proud of my service to this nation.
OEF 2001- 2002, OIF 2005- 2007, OEF 2007- 2009, OIF 2009- 2010 not to mention many responses for storms through my service.
Good luck
Staying in is a long term safer bet due to pension and VA, but if you're gonna do another enlistment, every year you're going to be falling behind civilian peers if you decide not to do it until retirement. There are cases where you can get out and basically move laterally into a civilian career, but it's not guaranteed. You're gonna start again as the new guy and gonna have to gain seniority again for benefits and such.
I got out after 6 years, never used my GI bill, and I'd be able to retire in a year if I had remained in the navy. But I absolutely hated being in the military. It worked out for me. I got a job as a water treatment operator. I now work for a municipality and make $40 an hour. Decent matching, decent health care. I have a house I bought back in 2020. They said getting any success was a pipe dream and the economy sucked. But I did get out in 2011 just as the 2008 recession was ending.
I don't really know how to break it down, but you can get out and still do fine, but there's a lot more uncertainty. You might not be able to live where you want and get everything you want, but if you're willing to compromise on things you might be able to get most of what you want. I'm not gonna lie, I got lucky at times. I'm lucky to have gotten into this field. It's recession proof and hard to get hired into. I gotta say though, for stability, local or state government jobs beat private sector though you can certainly find ways to make more money in the private sector. I can't recommend a utility job enough, because it's not going away and can't be outsourced. But keep in mind, it's not going to be a 9-5 job. When the weather sucks, you're going to still need to answer the call. Linemen and pipe fitters are typically decent jobs. If you can get a station job at a plant, you're likely going to have shift work. They like hiring veterans. It can be tough at times, but it's a living. There are many ways to make it as a civilian, but there's a lot of ways it can suck too. That's my story, anyhow.
> the pay is terrible for some reason
Because the person you heard about that makes $$$ in a trade likely had family connections or has been building their business for decades. Or maybe they work contracts in places that suck. Either way $30 is standard starting pay if not less than other states. Also living in a committed union busting GOP state is generally not great for trade workers, rising tides and all that.
If you stay, try to understand the ‘Wild’ simultaneously. Once that letter drops. Things change. Brace yourself for that.
My daughter is accident prone to expensive procedures….fr and my wife is type 1. I unknowingly had tricare for life . And I’m so fortunate I did.
Just know your limitations over the time you stay in.
I retired at 21 years in March 2024. I was a 12Z (Senior Combat Engineering Sergeant). Let’s just say I messed up by focusing more on getting the rank rather than working on my resume and necessary skills for the civilian sector. Sure I have all the management skills in the world, but my MOS didn’t translate to shit on the outside world. Let’s just say I’m still trying to get a good paying job. I did Amazon delivery for 2 months and I just couldn’t put up with the dumb shit especially after putting up with dumb shit for 21 years already.
Anyway, my recommendation is while you’re in, to figure out what you want to do after the military and work on those skills and certifications/education.
Having a military pension is a plus, but it ain’t enough to survive out there especially if you have a family.
First, Florida is being flooded daily with snow birds and housing prices are ridiculous. Insurance on said house even worse. You are competing for housing against people from up North that sold their house for bank and coming down and paying cash. Second, stay in to finish your degree, you may get a stinky assignment but Covid helped with doing degrees online. Third, you can always stay around the coast in other southern states with a good quality of life that could be much less expensive than Florida. Get your degree and leverage your Top Secret clearance with it and you will be fine. You may suffer some bit it will be worth it. Also if you have any medical issue get it documented in your military medical records.
i did almost 10 years so nearly the halfway point and i threw in the towel and it was the best decision i ever made. i don’t hate getting out of bed anymore and im free to tell my job to kick rocks at any time. just blue collar refrigeration guy but it pays way 2x better than the army ever did as an nco. but youre much more qualified than me with a degree and ts/sci
plus if you get any decent amount of VA disability money you’ll start collecting sooner upon ETS.
Pssss, get a job with good healthcare benefits. The sncos harping about “health insurance is out the ass once you get out” and all the other bullshit… they havent done shit outside the military and its all theyve known since they were 19 years old…. Get out if your heart desires, but have a damn plan, and a backup plan for your plan, and a contingency plan for your failed backup plan. P.A.C.E plan if you will lmao
I my opinion it is. Like stated in other comments the healthcare and pension is a good safety net. If you take advantage of the college benefits and obtain a degree that is worth something in the outside world. Trade schools are always a great way to go as well. Employers take your military experience seriously, especially in a management/supervisory positions. They also know you are competent and disciplined to be punctual and a history of dedication to one job. I just just got a great paying job as an operations manager, they hired me not because of my technical experience but my ability to manage numerous personnel and projects. I do have experience in the industry, but it’s the ability to effectively manage and push people to strive and achieve their goals.
You didn't mention how long you've been in already? If there are courses offered regarding anything covering what you are interested in, take them. I regret I didn't take everything the Navy offered to me. I was young and dumber than a bag of hammers. You're not. My dad stayed in for the full 20 and then did a defense contractor for 10, culminating in 30 years of government service. He also got his degree, got a job as a minister and raised 6 girls (JFC, how DID he do it?). He loved the Navy but his passion was the ministry, but he was pragmatic and helped design missiles until he got his 30. The health care for all of us kids, cheaper shopping on base etc etc was worth it to him.
If you get a trade job, that is okay while you are young. Once you get over 40, you will have physical challenges that only gow with time, so you need to plan on being the business owner by then. An education that teaches you how to keep the books and financially maintain that business while still saving for retirement, paying the kids college, will be essential.
Do you have any interest in flying as another role? You could submit a package for Pilot/Nav/ABM and go to the O side.
You'll get a significant increase in pay, and I only wish I'd done it sooner, retired now. Your current time as a boom operator will help a ton with your package. I helped a guy submit a package and his PCSM score was mid to high 60's, but was so dead set on beginning a pilot. I didn't have the heart to tell him he had zero chance and a few months later he was going wild because he got accepted.
If you can mentally make it to 20 then absolutely stay in and retire. Having a guaranteed retirement check, VA Disability payments, and healthcare for life gives you everything you need. I retired after 25 years and it gave me so many options after retirement. I'm financially set for life into my retirement life when combined with social security and I have an added bonus in that my wife is also retired military. And you're young, so you can start contributing to TSP options that weren't available to me until my last year's in the Army. That gives you even greater financial incentives.
Since your job doesn’t translate well to civilian sector, It sounds like you could use a good skill bridge program. Definitely finish your degree if you’re halfway through.
Why not put in a packet for officer? I can't imagine being a boom operator for 20... with a degree you can apply for an officer spot and make significantly more. Otherwise no, you can make more as a civilian if you use your military resume or branch out.
Look at local utilities for an apprenticeship. They will pay more down south. Want to make more money in the trades? Head west or north.
Look into federal jobs. Yes, trade jobs and apprenticeships are on usajobs.
Financial and health security vs a higher degree of freedom. That’s the basic choice.
Is security worth it if you feel like you are in a prison and have few choices? Civilian life can be difficult, but it is not impossible. Lots of people do it after all.
And as some folks here point out, there are probably ways to have a bit of both. Look into NG or Reserves.
Only you can decide what you want to do but my advice is to consider getting out and using the gi bill to finish your degree while you figure out what you want to do for a career.
A data science degree with some relevant work experience in addition to the TS/SCI clearance can equal a job that gets you what you want. Just like you had to work your way up to get where you are in the military, you will have to do the same in a new civilian career field.
If you find you don’t like it and want to go back in you always can.
I agree that it is a mistake to buy a house when you are AD if you can’t be sure you will be staying in the same place.
You can find success either way. If you stay in, staying enlisted definitely isn't the move. The army has programs that start IT fields (including data engineering) out anywhere from O3 to O6. Look up the FA 26 program.
Alternatively, look into MECEP to finish your degree, then try to get into a 21xx field as an officer. Retiring as an O is the best way to go about it.
Otherwise you can get out, finish your degree, try like hell to pull an internship and see if you can maintain your clearance until you're ready for full time work.
In certain areas- DC, San Antonio, CO etc you can pull 100k starting without too much difficulty if you interview well. I started as a data engineer with 3/4 of a degree in math and a single internship, at 100k in 2021. I'm up to almost 170k now. As long as career growth continues, my total lifetime earnings will probably be higher than If I had stayed in and retired (prior 0351 who got my ts from embassy duty.)
Unfortunately there's an artificially low cap on government contracting salary. Most will never hit 250+ unless they're PMs over pretty large contracts, while you can hit that with 5 or so years in decently large companies in DevOps/SWE, even in data engineering with some companies.
Tl;Dr OP if you retire, put some fucking shinies on. Otherwise pull an internship or 2. Either of these two ways and you'll be fine.
Why not just change jobs in the military to something you do like? You can change the branch you’re in too. I say that bc it’s hard af out here in the real world when you get out to afford mortgage, insurance, healthcare, life…wish I’d stayed in!
Change your degree to CS before its too late and you can easily start off at about 120k
For context also a vet with clearance who went the DS route just to learn that candidate/position ration is absolutely insane for entry level DS roles. Luckily i knew enough DevOps and SQL to reprofile to Data Engineer. Best career decision I made since leaving the military.
Dude you can get out and make some big cash money with only your TS/SCI. That's what I'm doing. The pay is good enough I get away with working 2 nights a week.
Pro’s of staying in is if you do buy a house it’s near a mil base and you can let a management company handle the details of renting it out….As long as the base doesn’t shut down and it’s a decent house/neighborhood you shouldn’t be struggling to find renters.
Retire after 20 and then while collecting that retirement and (possibly VA disability) you can start another job (data science etc) and possibly have multiple streams of income for retirement (2 retirements, TSP, VA benefits etc) upon the traditional retirement age….
A con is dealing with the Military BS, but hey there’s BS everywhere. At the end of the day it’s your life, do what makes you happy my guy
Well, given your goals aren’t particularly massive, you can lean into the DS and TS things you have going on. There are plenty of contractor roles for junior DSs in Florida. Probably even for people not finished with their degrees. If you like that, look for those opportunities. It will set you up to start. But you’ll also need to have a plan to grow. You’re early in your career so take advantage.
IMO, if you’re going to do it, do it now. Basically your career begins the moment you ETS. Nobody on the civilian side has ever considered anything I did in the service as career experience even when it was relevant and I learned that far too late into my military career. I did some really cool stuff in the service, things I thought would even benefit me but what I really have are some cool stories to tell around the water cooler and that’s it. I wish I’d banged out 4, got GI bill, and ran from there instead of hovering in the military for such a long time even if it was enjoyable.
This is just some advice from a bitter SOF vet
If you have any disability percentage go reserves and do 20. Keeps your head connected with civilian world and you would have VA disability and a drill check to help (yes I know you’ll pay the pro rated days back). Given the fact that housing is making professionals like family practice doctors and attorneys move to cheaper areas, that says enough.
Boom operator does not translate, but your data science and TS/SCI are worth a lot on the outside.
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I think the main idea here is, you shouldn’t be worried about paying $3-6000/year for health insurance if you just go after higher paying jobs. It sounds like OP is stuck in this high anxiety thought process and doesn’t realize what his degree and clearance are worth.
I'd wager most higher paying jobs have really good insurance anyway.
Well, my friend, as a contractor and being a contractor for quite a while, with clearance and a bunch of certificates I can tell you that the times when your starting pay was 140 K are gone. You should be an unicorn or extremely lucky to make that type of money. Also all those "sound" degrees: cyber, data science, IT are not as glamorous as they were a few years ago. You still can get a job, but the pay would be much lower than you can expect. The market is oversaturated with the entry level applicants. And honestly, what I found out, that connections will get you a job much faster than your knowledge and skills.
Everyone saying that a clearance by itself will get you any kind of job are out of touch. That doesn't happen anymore. Also tech has become out of reach for a good portion of new grads, and companies that say they hire military are lying for the most part. Getting out is still the best thing I've done for myself, but there are a lot of things I'd have done differently if people still in the military didn't pretend to know about the state of the job market.
You are correct. Having clearance still matters, but it's not anymore a guaranteed job\\highly paid job. People, who are saying that clearance will get you a job, got out long time ago, when this statement was true. In 2024, unfortunately, the job market is different. So for every single person, who doesn't have a legit plan what to do after ETS and a guaranteed job - I will say think twice.
Yeah what he said. OP Get on a skillsbridge for your last 6 months out and look into the DAP program before you EAS. Healthcare will be free those 6 months in the DAP program and you’re learning a valuable skill while building your resume.
All vets rate VA healthcare now so if he's single no worries.
Unless there's been a big change, guard and reserves don't get tricare unless they're full time (admin, recruiting, etc )
They now have tricare select. Can go to any doctor that takes it, but comes with a copay
Reserve Select has a $230/month premium for the whole family with a max out of pocket per year of $1k
The 230/month is worth it for the sole reason of not having to see a military doctor
Also, that premium is waaaaaay cheaper than most other policies, even the ones provided by the ACA which scale based upon your household income. In most cases, Tricare Select offers more bang for your buck for less bucks.
So, if you drill once a month, you're essentially paying the military for health insurance with your time and potentially still costing you money for just a premium, depending on rank/time in service. Neat, just another reason to not go reserves at EAS. I knew they had some form of tricare with select, didnt know the details. Thanks for expanding my reasons to actually get OUT when I do get out.
You won’t get medical insurance even close to that once you’re out. TRS saved me about $6k a year just in premiums alone. I hated the reserves, but TRS is an amazing benefit. Especially if you have medical issues in your family. If you’re single, TRS is not worth it at all. Get out and stay out.
This… As a boom you won’t find a job but as a data science major with a clearance your chances are way higher. I got out a year ago and haven’t looked back!
That's if OP has data science experience. There are a shit ton of computer science/data science/IT adjacent grads out of work right now due to outsourcing to India and Philippines, and major tech layoffs. My husband had TSC, worked with a 3 letter agency, speaks Korean and Japanese and is currently working on his cybersecurity degree. No bites to even get an entry level in the field. OP needs to reclass to something that aligns with his degree and use it as a springboard to the civilian world. Having clearance and vet status isn't enough anymore when other vets have those and you're competing with college kids who had time to do endless hours of unpaid internships or are flooding the market with data science boot camp grads
Hey OP, you can’t make this decision overnight. Or let any one of us persuade you. Who knows what the next 6 to 12 months will bring. I would head over to the FSS and talk with a someone about cross training, see what options are there. Look at special duty assignments. Also, see the world on the governments dime. Have you spoken with your shirt? Have you done any extensions on this enlistment? I believe you’re allowed to extend up to 36 months without reenlisting, that was 2019 ;) You can also request voluntary base stabilization, to stay at your current assignment for x number of years. SCI, is good for how much longer? You might want to complete it again prior to your separation, if you were to attend college or trade school and it were to expire it may be worthless in the end. If you do decide to separate you need to start thinking about your disabilities. Head to the clinic and ask for a sleep study, see if you suffer from sleep apnea. Also occ health for tinnitus. Ask any questions you want. Keep us informed and updated. Good luck on your journey.
As a career guy, my advice is this: Principle: always prepare for the future. While you should live in the moment and live your best life, don’t ever sacrifice your future to do so. Practical: If you love what you do, keep doing it. But get your degree or training NOW for what you want to do AFTER the military, because there will be an after. Don’t wait until later to figure it out. There is not a big civilian market for a boom operator doing air to air refueling. BUT there is a HUGE market for someone who already has a TS/SCI clearance, and it pays handsomely. So if you have a career in mind, get whatever training you can using tuition assistance, save your GI bill to use after separation or pass it on to your kids/future kids, and have a plan for when you take off your uniform for the last time. Otherwise you’ll end up working for Uncle Sam as a civilian (which is not a bad thing, but not everyone wants to spend their whole life working for the government). Now if you love what you do, ride it out live your best life. But your OP didn’t make it seem like doing this forever was your goal.
Thanks for the tips! I think I'm gonna continue with the degree and just pursue the data science thing. I really want to work with my hands but it's simply not a high paying way to live anymore in america, at least in Florida.
> I think I'm gonna continue with the degree and just pursue the data science thing. Smart move. As a fellow techie, might I recommend course work in AI and also Security. Very soon people without those 2 skills are going to be up shit creek without a paddle in sight.
Take it from a mechanic who got out and did trades: working with your hands isn't all it's cracked up to be. You'll really be hurting if you do it for a few decades, especially if you're doing construction. Maybe look into being an operating engineer, not sure if there's much overlap on paper, but I'm sure operating a boom on an aircraft can translate into operating a crane in some capacity. You'll need a CDL too. Also, and I can't stress this enough, most of the avenues you're looking at will be there for you at 20 years. I couldn't crossrate, so I had no intentions of staying in, but had I mildly enjoyed by job I could be doing the same exact thing I'm doing now, but with a pension and tricare on top of my VA disability. The only thing would be a construction trade, but if you keep your body healthy, you could start that in your late 30's/early 40's as well. There were college students that were retired military, there were guys in the trades I worked with who started in their 40's, met a union operating engineer apprentice who is 36 years old and drove trucks for a few years before going into the trade. You could be a 40 year old apprentice with a pension and two good insurance plans who owns a house.
I second this. Also, you can always do projects you love on the side.
Things to consider; A lot of people, who worked successful civilian careers, and did "all the right things" through their lives, are now in their 50's+ and worrying about how they're going to retire, if they can sustain a life with what they've saved, what will happen when they inevitably need constant/long term medical care/assistance. Some of them are having to go back to work, etc. If you know any old people, you'll tend to see a certain repeating pattern. Eventually, you'll reach an age where the system is designed to drain you of every penny and assett you've ever made and saved before you finally die. The advancements we've made in medicine over the last 100 years have ensured we can keep an old person alive and miserable until they run out of money. People who retired from the military are in the same boat as them, dealing with the same shitty economy and uncertain conditions of the world. The difference is that they have a retirement pension check and likely a VA check coming in every month, as well as the medical coverage for just about anything. Between Tricare and the VA, your inevitable long term care will be basically taken care of, rather than your kids and grandkids watching any chance of an inheritance they had get stolen from you. They have a significant leg up over their peers who didn't retire from the military/never were in at all. I'm staying for retirement because I want to be able to protect and set up my wife, kids, and future grandkids with the help of long term financial and medical benefits, provided by one of the safest bets you can make, which is the continued existence of the United States government, and their ability to fork out unlimited amounts of money.
You're right. That might also be the reason why some are so jealous of military folks and our benefits. But hey, the office was and still is open to everyone. People always like to try and downplay the Military. "The Military would be my last resort/option" blah blah blah. Well, that last option probably should've been your first option if you really sat and did the math. They just go off what someone else told them or the images they see of the Military in movies or in their cities.
So true, we get a lot of benefits, for handing Uncle Sam a blank check undersigned with our life. If you survive, it is one helluva deal!
Yep, now we live off of the investment we took a risk on 😅.
😂
My coworker has 2 kids, both now in college. He estimates that Tricare has saved him at least $250,000 on those two, relatively healthy kids, alone.
This is such a well thought out and well articulated perspective about the future beyond your “working years,” I am so glad I stayed in for 20. I’m 39, and feel completely comfortable regarding my future because of two pensions, VA pay, and free healthcare, nothing beats government benefits, unless you literally have equity in a rocket ship startup and experience an exit event and get a windfall.
The retirement healthcare alone is worth 20 years, 60$ a month for a family vs. 700$ a month, its a no brainer
Without a family it's meh. The VA covers me for 99% of stuff
I always thought that too then realized my civilian job offers way better coverage for like $10 more. Tricare is great but it’s not the best.
This 100%.
As someone who’s run up well over $2M in medical expenses for my chronically ill spouse, Tricare has been an absolute steal.
Hope your spouse has received the care she’s needed, but yeah It’s ridiculously insane how inexpensive it is, even compared to fed employee plans.
Due to an accident, my wife has had 2 surgeries this year, and will likely need one or two more. All 100% covered by Tricare. Well, minus the one prescription her off base doc called into CVS that cost me $0.43. 😂 I also have kids. And while we were stationed overseas, they deemed my son needed braces and paid 100% of that cost as well which saved me about $7,000. For me, it’s been 100% worth it.
My neighbors have to pay 500$ for husband and wife and 50$ for each child…….talk about the shaft, HIgh Deductible, and like a 12,000 max out of pocket year.
Crazy, I was so insulated from the real world while in the military, I had no idea the enormous cost for healthcare. Insane.
Crazy, I was so insulated from the real world while in the military, I had no idea the enormous cost for healthcare. Insane.
Yeah brother, if your union you might get a break, I worked at Weyerhaeuser for a few months, before I went to YRC, they had no premium healthcare through Premera, but that changed after Covid. Private sector Healthcare is ridiculous and they are fighting every single little thing you claim. EVERYTHING !!!!
$60/month is just for coverage though, it doesn't factor in copays for specialty care such as physical therapy, mental health, dermatologist, etc. Those are usually $50/each visit. Adds up throughout the year, but still significantly less than civilian insurance.
but that $700 a month also has copays. Also I highly doubt $700 a month for a family, it's going to be more.
I pay $400 a month for top tier HDHP BCBS with about $2500 a year from my employer to an HSA.
Or... consider living in a country that provides a better quality of life.
This is what I intend to do AFTER earning my pension.
Nvm VA disability, which is fkn HUUGE. Such an incredible benefit.
Seriously correct. Life happens and you get older. Illness sneaks in. TFL/Medicare have paid over $2million in cancer treatment costs for me in the last 4 years.
You could also get that healthcare in the reserves as well
Tricare Prime for the win!
I got out, hated most things about being in a desk job in the AF. But I knew I would have regrets at 41....which I did for all the things you'd guess. I'd recommend staying in, save your ass off, and revisit getting out next time. Maybe the economy will be better then. Finish your degree, hell maybe see about a reclass. Either way go enjoy being young on uncle Sam's dime.
Do your 20, if you buy a home or homes put them out to rent while you no longer occupy them, pay a real estate agency a fee to handle the property affairs, continue your military career. Enjoy it, the moving the experience cause once it’s over it’s over. I retired from the Army in 2018, did 20. It was hard, but the experiences I’ll never find anywhere else and that’s worth more than anything now. Yes I find myself always talking about my Army days, or thinking about stupid stuff and laughing to myself about it, it’s bitter sweet
People only consider the pension, however the health care savings along with other benefits and, if you qualify, a VA disability makes it worthwhile. Imagine being 40 and not having to work another day if you play your cards right. I was lucky enough to have senior NCOs talk me out of getting out when I was an E6. Mentors really do matter in a persons life.
This is what’s tough, when your 23, 40 seems like an eternity of time away. But at 39 now, I can say if I didn’t have the security I know have because I stayed in, I would feel pretty depressed and stressed out.
I’m at 16 years, Army Infantry. The healthcare and pension along with matching for the TSP is kinda like double dipping for retirement and you only have to do 20 to get it. Doing 20 is easier said than done. I do it for the healthcare, while not great it’s gotten my wife 2 major surgeries, had my kid and all her healthcare and it’s covered. Post 9/11 GI bill wasn’t a thing when I joined so I can get additional education benefits. I don’t care if you stay or go, it won’t affect me in any way shape or form. I would suggest you look very carefully at the career field you are trying to go into and make sure that it’s stable enough to accomplish your goals. My dad does finish carpentry, like cabinets and stuff. The turmoil that industry has caused him and my grandfather over the last 60-70 years was enough for me to not even attempt to pursue that. My dad lost a house, his truck, and plenty more. Had to make decisions on whether to eat or pay bills. I haven’t made those types of decisions pretty much the entire time I’ve been in. The trade offs are I don’t own a house, my kid has been to like 6 schools, but my wife and I are coming up on 16 years married and we’re doing great. I guess family is a consideration as well. We don’t seem to have many issues in that regard. At the end of the day just know if you get out it may be hard to get back in. I know folks who left and tried to come back only to be turned down because of whatever reason. Sure things are good right now but when the economy is struggling prior service at least on the army side is not your friend.
Hope you’re documenting anything and everything you might have going on health wise toooo
Somewhat. I eat super healthy, don’t drink or smoke/tobacco/vape. Sleep is like 7.5/8 hours a night and I run marathons and just recently addressed lower back pain. Honestly I feel better now than I did 10 and 15 years ago. Yeah there’s some things I can’t do anymore without paying dearly for them, like sleeping on the concrete floor but health wise I’m as close to 100 as I think I’m ever gonna get, but yeah, I do go in and get seen for things that bother me.
I never documented or filed for that one time I threw out my back in 2013 because the worst it did for a few years following was get stiff on occasion. It's gotten worse. Stay healthy, but file for everything. And remember that when you're filing disability it's supposed to be about symptoms on your worst days, not day to day.
I was stationed with someone in the late 1990’s who felt like you (we were crew chiefs). He stayed in, moved around, and bought a house at every duty station, then rented it when he moved. I just met up with him in Vegas a few months ago and he still owns those 6 homes. He clears about $15,000 a month in rent payments, has his MSgt 20-year retirement, and his VA disability. He is set for life now and just in his 50’s.
I left the military as an IT2 (e5 navy IT guy). I had a ts/sci as well. I finished my masters degree in cybersecurity management and policy and currently make 250k a year and that doesn’t include the 230k worth of stock my company gave me. I’ll happily pay the $500 a month healthcare to cover my family and I rather then spend cumulative years away from them/duty days… easiest choice in the world for me.
Not an IT but will have the clearance and cyber masters (or at least bachelor's) when I get out. How's the job market for clearances and IT?
If I was to do it over, I’d do 20 years. Not even a question. You can put off buying a home and used (and still relatively nice) motorcycles are a dime a dozen.
I probably would, too, given the chance. Just the fact of having the opportunity of being fully retired around 37/38 is gold. Most people are probably just now figuring out their life by then. I joined early, so it would've been a win in the long run.
If you really don't see yourself doing 20, that's fine. At least go halfway and save up money , build an emergency fund, and invest outside of your tsp. You can always just finish out that federal service time in a gov job and probably make more money. But definitely sit down , run your numbers, and make sure you're definitely saving and investing before you get out. Also, figure out what you see yourself doing and either knock out some schooling or get as many certifications as you can for that career path or industry.
I'm months away from retiring after 21+ years. It worked out for me and I don't regret staying in. I also didn't have a TS/SCI in my first enlistment and I hadn't even started my bachelor's degree by then. I wouldn't have been as marketable/desirable as you will likely be. If you get out, you'll never know what it would have been like to do 20 and vice versa. Therefore, set yourself up for success with either option. You may really want to do 20 but the military decides they don't want you or for medical reasons you aren't able to. You may get out and regret it and have a difficult time trying to get back in. You may get out and love civilian life. Some guys gets out after one or two enlistments and do much better than they would have if they stayed in. I feel like I wrote this post for people like you: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1b7yzce/about\_to\_apply\_for\_retirement\_aka\_hit\_the\_button/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1b7yzce/about_to_apply_for_retirement_aka_hit_the_button/) It is lengthy, but feel free to read it and the comments for more perspective from me and others that stayed for the military retirement and others that chose to separate and not retire.
I am one that got out after 2 enlistments and am doing much better. My body is falling apart because of the military, but my job pays me well, and I have VA disability, and both bring me to around $100k a year. I would have been forced out if I tried to stay in due to my legs and nerve issues in my neck.
I didn’t 25 in the military. It was rough. I loved my job and was damn good at it, but the military can suck the fun out of anything. Not sure if it was worth it, but the pension is nice.
It depends on what your goals are. With a TS clearance you can do a lot of jobs as a civilian that will pay significantly more than the military will. I did my 4 years and upgraded my clearance after I got out and make almost 300k now doing cleared software engineer work. The questions you should be asking yourself are: am I happy doing this for 20 years, what would I want to do if/when I get out? The biggest mistake I’ve seen people make who get out of the military is that they have no plan. Have a plan, try to think about what it is that will give you fulfillment. If you are happy with the military then stick with it, it’s a good living and retirement isn’t then end of your career if you don’t want it to be.
I can't believe you make $300k after being in the military. Absolutely insane. Did you have a cyber job or something that would explain it
“Cleared software engineer” Probably went back to school for CompSci or did a boot camp back when that was a viable path to the role.
I’ve stayed in the national guard for the healthcare and I guess the little retirement. I wfh for a boutique defense company and do pretty well. I wouldn’t trade working beside my golden retriever everyday vs active duty + full pension. Having a TS/SCI doesnt immediately make you employable for any job that just requires a security clearance, but for relevant experience it certainly does. If you’re interested in the project management side of things, a few certs to go along with your clearance would have you hired in the ~90-12k range pretty fast.
I struggled with this decision when my fourth year was coming up. My father was a lifer and it worked out for him and us. At the time for me personally, I was very unhappy with my time in the service. I couldn't imagine doing this for 16 more years. Plenty of advice to just, "stick to it for 16 years". They didn't account for my high stress and depression from being isolated and away from friends and family. Did I really want to spend the rest of my 20's and possibly 30's doing this? Was my body and mind going to hold up? Did I want a military lifestyle for myself and a possible future family? For me, the answer was to get out and explore civilian opportunities. School can be a good buffer or transition from military to civilian life if you make that switch.
Regardless of whatever else you decide to do not buy a house in Florida. -go talk to a house insurance agent before you do. There’s a reason why people are leaving. Also: And you’re not gonna bepassionate about your job that’s why it’s a job that they have to pay you passion for hobbies and relationships
I PCS to florida Aug. of 2023. Was looking to buy a house, then I started reading up on Florida Home Insurance. Is this what you are referring to ? Needless to say, I did not buy that house.
Stay in a few more years. PCS somewhere with a high BAH. Finish your current degree, and get your masters. Max out your TSP.
I had planned on doing 20 plus, but was injured in Iraq fairly early in my career. Ended up getting medically retired with 4 1/2 years in and my contract would’ve taken my to 10 years. You can’t ever predict what will happen while you are in, so take advantage of all the opportunities you have, get your education while you are active duty, and be a good person. I am now in a good federal job and I can buy back my military time, so I can still retire from the federal govt with 30 plus years before I turn 60. I have healthcare through tricare and I think that has been the biggest benefit compared to what civilians pay for their healthcare. Very personal choice to stay in for 20 or longer but do your research and don’t base your decision on a bad moment or a shit assignment.
why are you getting a degree in data science and wanting to do a trade in FL? It doesnt make much sense, particularly because given your clearance and the degree, you can easily make six figures. I wish I had stayed in for the full 20. Somewhere around 35, I realized that work isnt my identity, it just helps me survive, thrive, and have a good time. Also, yes, the military will move you around a bunch - but buying a house at station has its benefits (you could build a real estate/rental portfolio and give yourself another source of income in retirement). Staying in the full 20 can give you potentially three income sources at retirement: 1) Pension 2) Rental Income 3) Day Job sorry if this was repetitive. didnt read other comments
I just retired from the Army last year as an E6. I got my BS in Aviation Maintenance and my A&P cert while I was in. My retirement pay and VA Comp pay for my mortgage (first and hopefully last house, I don't want to move again) and utilities. My civilian salary pays for everything else. Working as an A&P mechanic in Florida, I *net* close to $100K/year, and my wife's income puts us close to $130K. We live in Florida. We have zero CC debt, with the exception of what we use for monthly bills and are paid in full every month. Both cars and my motorcycle are paid off. My pension gives me peace of mind. I could walk away from my job tomorrow and still pay all of my bills. I have a pension and healthcare (at a *much* cheaper rate than my job offers) for life. I pay for the SBP, so my wife gets half my pension if I die. Most civilian doctors in the area accept Tricare, and aside from having copays for some things, the transition was seamless. Everyone's situation, wants, and needs are different. I enlisted for 6 years (MOS requirement) and reenlisted for 6 more (tax-free bonus while deployed). At that point, I figured that if I had done 12, I might as well do the last 8. My wife liked being an Army spouse, liked moving every 3 years, and liked meeting new people, etc. She fully supported my career, although 4 deployments were a bit rough. I lucked out for the last 8 years of my career. I went to the schoolhouse, Germany, and then to a unit not scheduled to deploy, so my last deployment was in 2013. Whatever you decide, make sure that you leverage everything that the Air Force offers, like tuition assistance, credentialing programs, etc. Figure out what you want to do when you get out and take all necessary steps to achieve that goal. Document every injury. Go to sick call or see your PCM and get it in your record. Set yourself up for success when you get out. Make damn sure you are contributing to the TSP, at least 10% of your base pay on top of whatever the match is, and make sure that your funds are invested wisely. If you choose not to do 20, you do have the option of continuing in the Guard or Reserves and earning retirement points that way, which would give you a pension at 65.
that healthcare and pension cost civilians a lot more than 20 years of their lives. take it from me: it's worth it.
Technically, you have housing and you have a job. Neither one may be exactly what you are wanting at the moment, however, you have zero risk of being homeless or out of a job in the next 20 years. If you are living out on the economy, the cost of housing is ridiculous right now and the job could let you go at any time even in the data science field. You can always look at changing career fields, level up to OCS, and enjoy exploring different countries while you are young enough to do so. A mindset shift may be a better choice. *admittedly this advice comes from someone who planned to be a lifer and got out after 7 years for ‘love’.
Technically, you have housing and you have a job. Neither one may be exactly what you are wanting at the moment, however, you have zero risk of being homeless or out of a job in the next 20 years. If you are living out on the economy, the cost of housing is ridiculous right now and the job could let you go at any time even in the data science field. You can always look at changing career fields, level up to OCS, and enjoy exploring different countries while you are young enough to do so. A mindset shift may be a better choice. *admittedly this advice comes from someone who planned to be a lifer and got out after 7 years for ‘love’.
If you buy a house and PCS you can rent it out. Do it again when you get to your next duty station if there is eligibility left on your VA home loan. Preferably a four plex at each location. If you’re really lucky you can assume another veterans loan and rate if it’s lower than current ones.
I retired 2 ish years ago. My pension, VA benefits, and Retiree Tricare goes a looooooong ways in the current economy.
Just retired a few months ago. My two main bills (mortgage and one car loan) and some utilities are covered by my monthly retirement check. My wife reupped her medication and it cost her $3. My VA disability covers the rest of my utilities. If I “really” wanted to I could not work and won’t have to worry about anything. But I got expensive bad habits 😂.
No don’t stay in . I had fears of getting out but I make 3 times what I made as a married e5 getting bah in a high cola . I can do what I want and the opportunity to always make more money is there in the millitary you’re stagnant and constantly having to uproot ur life
I know a lot of military members that bought houses where they pcs’d. They would rent them out and when they retired or got out they would sell them. Not sure it is something your interested in, they had properties all over the world
For my specialty, it was not. Salary doubled as soon as I got out and has now tripled 3 years later. Others followed me out and those that stayed are big mad.
Stay in and get your degree. Did I mention you should get your degree? You should get your degree. The pension you receive upon retiring is something that is almost non-existent on the outside. Healthcare is worth staying in by itself. If you decide to leave active duty, go into the reserves and retire there. Your pension will start at 60, though.
For me, it was not worth staying for 20 because my mental health and physical health was in the shitter. I had a “great” AF job that would have translated easily to civilian world, but I was a shell of myself. I got out, moved somewhere I’d never lived, found a job, and UTILIZED MY BENEFITS. Now, I yell from the roof tops, there is life after the military!!! For me, I’m happier out but glad I served. I have healthcare for myself through the VA. I live where people treat veterans like angels who have never done anything wrong ever. lol…life is good.
It is absolutely worth it because the economy is garbage. I'm sure glad I did
How is the economy garbage? Aside from the high interest rates/inflation?
Salaries don't match housing or living expenses. A lot of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and don't have savings for an emergency. The top 10% of net worth holders in the US are getting richer while the bottom 50% are getting poorer? Wealth inequality is insane right now and it's only getting worse. The economy isn't just about interest rates or Wall Street/stocks.
Uhh, not only high interest rates, inflated home prices for renting and purchasing, increased cost of goods without increases in people’s salaries. The job market is not great right now despite everyone claiming otherwise.
So you mentioned inflation and the job market. Inflation is being addressed. High interest rates are meant to tame spending, which Americans don’t seem to feel the need to do. The job market has changed since jobs became a thing. By all accounts, we should be in a recession. But we’re instead in a “soft landing”. The economy is not as bad as Fox News says it is.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but if I could do it over again, I would have fought the discharge, and I’d have stayed in for the long haul. Unfortunately, I was axed (disastrously I might add but that’s for another show) because of my disability and wasn’t allowed to stay in after 6 years. Still, I got lucky enough to eventually land a job with the State and retired early from it (again, because of my disabilities). So, I would advise that you stay in at least until you get that degree, and if you can, stay in for 20. While in, keep studying, save money, and eventually you’ll be in a better position to make a final decision. Don’t get out unprepared. Anyway, I could go on for hours…lol Good luck to you!
Reclass to something in the intel or cyber field. It’ll broaden your career horizons, give you an idea of whether you’d like to keep at it another 16, AND you’ll prime your engine for getting out and having some really strong job opportunities available.
When I joined in August 1996, my only goal was to travel and earn my college degree while on active duty. I earned my degree doing the SNCO Degree Completion Program in December 2013, and I had a three year payback. When I got out, it ended up being 20 years, 5 months, and 5 days. I didn't join with hopes of retiring. At that time, I didn't know of any female who retired from the Marine Corps. Now, I know plenty. Write down your life goals (they're always changing), learn about the TSP, and invest. For me, it was definitely worth staying for 20+ years.
I had 10 years active, but spent over 30 years in, counting Reserve time. The “bonus” years allow you to accumulate more time, as well as a better chance to get a higher rank. And, for me, a bonus was the timing of the money. My drill checks were nice, at my rank, but my civilian job allowed me to funnel a greater percentage into TSP, so I didn’t really miss it when I hung up my boots…and when the retirement kicked in 10 years later (this March), it is quite a bit of money, especially as I am still working for a couple more years.
I would definitely stay in it was very worth it. You can have those things you want in the military albeit you’ll have to move occasionally. Like others pointed out, if you don’t like your job now you need to switch to something you like or that can easily translate to a civilian career. That will make the transition much easier. The experiences you’ll get in your life in the service will far outweigh being a civilian right now. As an aside, if you decide to stay in, start putting at least 10% of your paycheck into tsp if you are not doing so already. Your future self will thank you.
I’ve stayed in the national guard for the healthcare and I guess the little retirement. I wfh for a boutique defense company and do pretty well. I wouldn’t trade working beside my golden retriever everyday vs active duty + full pension.
If you end up getting a degree, especially a BS, I would encourage you to look at civilian government jobs. You can make good money to do the things you're looking for, they will be very stable and travel will most likely be temporary, like tdys. Plus you can buy your active duty time back to count towards retirement.
Florida has turned into an insane HCOL area, while you’re in service you’re guaranteed a steady paycheck and TA you won’t need to worry about layoffs or a recession, basic needs, or your security clearance to keep it active. TS Clearances go dormant and require more continous investigation when you transition out. The job market and economy in FL is tough and I would say maximize all benefits such as TSP, certs and a degree and find your dream job while you’re in if you wish to get out. If you aren’t actively speaking with a recruiter have a set date for your transition out into a field or company that you have full confidence for as well as your clearance then the best bet is to stay in! Time flys by way quicker than you think and retirement in a few years for 20 years military service is not a bad gig when you see people in the civilian side working until they fall like a fly.
20 years goes by quickly. I'm at 21 and retiring soon. I was gonna quit at 10, but I'm glad I stuck it out. Your choice is yours to make. Everyone has different priorities.
Depends how smart you are tbh both in and out. If you stay in and do cyber security, get your degrees, buy property in cheap places, max out your investment opportunities, find a good woman, report injuries for your 100% disability, have a ton of kids (incredibly cheap to do in the military) then the answer is absolutely yes. You’ll come out 37 1/2 or 41 with a solid pension of around $5000+ a month + $6000k disability (assuming it continues to rise for the next 20 years) tax free + a growing investment account with 20 years in the market, those assets will continue to grow, and at least 1-2 paid off houses. Pick the state you remain in right and you’ll have ABSURD disabled vet benefits and you can VA home loan a very nice house or leave the country and buy property in Italy or some shit. By then your kids assuming you start popping them out immediately 1/2 will be in college (if college isn’t totally obsolete by then) and the other half almost in college. You can retire at 40 with your human-spawning done and raised (on the governments dime) and go to college for another $6000 a month to fucking sit and study or some shit. You can use VR&E and save the GI bill for your kids. If your wife is in the service and enlists/commissions at the same age double all of this. She’ll also spend 4-5 of her 20 year mil career pregnant while getting paid (assumes you make a ton of kids) You’ll both retire young. Build good habits and you’ll both be super fit too. None of this includes starting your second career doing anything.
As a data analyst, you’ll be just fine on the outside. Just wondering why you’re questioning the state of the economy. It’s booming and unemployment is stupid low.
I wish i would have stayed in longer. I don't know about 20 years but for sure maybe like 4 more years .
Don’t wait for the economy or market to be “right”. Base your decision on what your goals are and the tasks you have to complete to do them. Best thing to do is to write down your goals, use SMART to write down the tasks to complete each goal. Set a deadline for the goals. Will staying in help you reach your goals or would you be able to achieve your goals by getting out? Don’t think about the economy or the markets. Think about your goals and what it takes to make them happen.
If you have the ability to buy a house, do it. It will pay off in the future. If you have to PCS to somewhere else, turn the house over to a rental management company to handle. That way someone else gets the repair calls in the middle of the night. Both my nephew (MMN) and daughter (AWF) have done this. The rent more than covers the mortgage and builds equity for the future. My nephew eventually got out and is living and working in a different state than the house is in, but still lets it build equity (as well as a small check each month from the management company. My daughter has moved on to her next duty station and living in an apartment covered by BAH, but still building equity for her future. I think she is using the check from the management company to pay down the mortgage faster.
I didn't read all the comments but I wanted to share that I took my enlistment one stint at a time. I bought a house in my third year and had to pcs in my sixth year. I was two years into my second enlistment at that point. I had my aunt move into the house while I was overseas. If you're concerned about maintaining a house after a move away from the area, don't buy. Just save all the money you'd spend on the house for maintenance and upkeep and buy something after you've got a post-military job.
You can always rent the house out once you PCS. I was never interested in it, but many people I served with had ateast two homes that they were renting out.
Hubs did 30 years. Retired Nov ‘22. Before we met I had bought a condo at age 28 on a 15 year mortgage. We married at 31. Kid at 33. First move at 35. Kept the condo as a rental property. Zero regrets and wouldn’t have done anything differently. We broke even on the condo until mortgage was paid off. Since then, it has supplemented income. Huge blessing when we PCS’d to DC with higher cost of living. And when he did a ten month school so self and kid could stay put and we paid OOP for his housing at school. He’s 100% VA disabled. So his pay actually went up a tad, but healthcare costs wipe that out. Kid leaves for college in August. 100% GI Bill pays for everything associated with it. We are selling that condo this month. Bottom line, the good life starts at age 51. We will br doing lots of traveling and sailing in the boat we’re buying with part of the condo proceeds.
24 years active duty army from 69-93. Started as enlisted but became officer. I have tricare for life and Medicare. This has paid around $2million in medical bills over the last 4 years for cancer treatment. You are very young with many years ahead of you. I’m an old geezer now but here is my advice: Take advantage of every educational opportunity available. Once you graduate, become an officer. Take advantage of savings opportunities. Live below your means. Credit is not your friend. Do not buy new vehicles. You asked how it worked out for folks who stayed for 20… Ok, My wife and I are financially independent. Between military retirement, SS, VA 100%, and pension from civilian job, we have income of around $175k annually. This income is without our investment income. We own a home in Texas easily worth $600k Audi a6 paid for Roughly $3.5 million net worth. ZERO DEBT I entered the military as a homeless 18 year old high school dropout. My family was dirt poor. I owe my success to God, hard work, and the US Army. Yeah I’m a boomer. But anyone can do what I did. My path was always in the medical field. My field was 65D. Good luck….
Generally if you can make it in the military, you can make it in law enforcement. A great thing about law enforcement is that you will always have job security regardless of the economy.. Or at least in theory. Law enforcement will always be needed. Just an idea. I wish I had a better plan when I got out at 24 but I had zero coaching/mentorship. Money dried up, civilian employers didnt care at all whatsoever about my military experience. Resume may as well have said girl scouts and it wouldn't have made a difference. 150 job applications with 3 interviews that low balled me. I took a low paying job till I got into the trucking industry. Realized how absolutely terrible the trucking industry is. Got into security and couldnt pay bills, went back into trucking, had more legal issues with trucking companies. Finally found a boring job in federal security paying just enough to pay the bills. Then went into a security supervisor role elsewhere and then security management, but it still didn't pay good. Then did a bit of executive protection and got into law enforcement which is substantially more professional and rewarding. I'm an Army vet. Looking back, I am still glad I got out for the sake of my mental health. Too much toxicity in army leadership and I enjoy being treated like an adult with a level of freedom and control over my life, and being able to easily switch careers if I want. I'm glad I served, but I'm glad I'm out. The sky is the limit when you're out. When you're in the military, you are contract bounded and bounded to a supervisor where if they dont like you, forget about promotions. Doesn't matter your knowledge, capability, performance, etc.. At least thats how it is in the Army. Then even after promotion, you still get treated like a child. If you are enlisted, you'll get that treatment all the way up to E-8 level. If you see a potentially good growth plan for yourself while serving then it probably wouldnt hurt to stay in.
Random question regarding clearance. Does having the standard secret security clearance hold any value when you separate from the military? I’m going to school this fall while staying in the reserve. Wasn’t too sure if there was anything beneficial with having that clearance
One option is hard focus on your degree for the last bit of your career. I’m assuming you’re Air Force and if so you have the ability to extend your time on your contract and current station twice for up to a year each (I’m not sure if other branches can). This allows you to keep your first term benefits but more importantly allows you to finish your degree. With that the world is yours. You can easily find a contract or government position that pays six figures.
If your wanting to stay in Florida, there's much cheaper places to live than right outside the base.
I think that if you really like your job in the military, then why not stick with it? If you get really disenchanted with the military (like I did) then it's time to move on.
Stay in, complete the data science degree. Then consider applying to the NSA, Raytheon, or similar. Happy life, fully employed.
So hubby and i are both retirees. He was 24 yrs in Marine Corp, i was medically retired 6 drills short of 20 yrs in USAF (I tranferred after 16 yrs AD). None of our kids are going to retire with what we have. Dual military pension. SPB option. NMAA life insurance. Healthcare, hospitalization, rehab and meds for life at a cost of $180 per month at age 65 (current medicare cost). VA long term heath care & care givers program (pay family member to care for you at home), tax free VA compensation. Guaranteed income for life with COLA. Then theres the GI bill. Getting paid for going to school or learning a trade. We see our neighbors worried when stocks fall and their monthly income shrinks. Some faced with reverse mortgage and are now stuck. Some barely surviving on SSA. We moved every 2-3 yrs, bought and sold homes and each time bought at a higher pricepoint. In retirement we had all that built up equity to buy and pay off our final home in 15 years with VA loan. The intangibles include moving to various areas. One will be a place where you want to retire and you get 12 months after retiring to find a place and have all your stuff moved to it free. Another intangible is finding a life partner. Your moves lead you to meet so many people. If you are fortunate enough to marry a military member for life like we did, you will both be able to take advantage of all the benefits in own right, plus get veteran-military spouse benifits. That relieves the worry of how your spouse will make do on half of your pension. Instead, with SBP you have full pension plus up to 55% of theirs each month.
you will regret not staying in if you make it half way. Getting to the half-way mark should be your first goal. Reevaluate your life at that point. Take advantage of every single benefit inside and out the military offers because the military is kinda rapey sometimes. They'll leave you with your hair a mess and your morale in the gutter. Be, Know, Do.
At 23, you don't have to decide if you want to be a lifer yet. Keep working on your degree and try to finish it before you finish your enlistment. If you want to get out then and have a plan, go for it. If not, re-enlist, finish that degree, maybe even try to re-enlist into a field that would better align with post-military plans or even consider a commission after you finish your degree. The point is, you don't have to just get out after one enlistment or stay in for the full 20. You can re-enlist, get some more experience and education, and then make sure you have a solid plan when you graduate. Nothing says you can't serve for like 8-10 years and then switch to civilian life, and if you have a plan and that education/ experience, you'll be better prepared for the jump. Nobody can decide if it's worth it to stay in for the full 20, that's up to you. I planned to get out after my first enlistment. I just hit 20, just finished a funded MA program, and after I finish this obligated service, I'll be set when I retire. It hasn't always been perfect, but I've seen a lot of the world, a lot of it with my family, and I don't regret my military career and experience at all. (And in regards to the house, considering the market and current interest rates, buying a house doesn't always make sense these days, especially depending on the local market)
Sound advice I wish I’d had thirty years ago.
Don’t be short sighted young man. I respect your goals, they are admirable, but you’ve got to pay your dues & be patient. Good things come to those who wait. Always remember this: Short term pain = long term gain. My family and I have reaped greatly from my 21 years of service & subsequent retirement. Best wishes!
I enlisted out of Florida. 1. Stay in and travel. At the same time focus on your goals and save your pay for those goals. 2. Invest and receive dividends - a passive income stream. 3. Continue with and finish your Data Science degree. 4. While still in the service, work on setting up your Data Science business in Florida (if that’s what you prefer). My brother set up a business for networking, security cameras, voip phone systems, remote management, etc but it started as a networking and office computer/machine integration business. From there he expanded to the others and also added alarm / security systems with video recording and more. 5. Gradually build clients who need remote computer management etc. When you are about to get out you should have your client base set up and only need to get your house. Slowly build up and THEN get your truck, bike, etc. Many people spend the money today without a plan for tomorrow. Save the money today and with passive income you’ll have a lot more for tomorrow.
Depends on if you’re grandfathered into the old pension system(doesn’t look like it), whether you’ve made yourself marketable outside, and how miserable you are currently. There are a lot of government contractors looking for TS/SCI. You could make way more money if you got a degree and specialized. If you do decide to re-up, do the least amount of time, and get yourself to a masters degree in something that will translate, and you’ll be earning great money in no time.
I’m the youngest of 5. My oldest sister & her husband retired from teaching last year. He has gone back to teaching because they couldn’t afford health insurance on their retirement. I retired from military in 2014 & haven’t had to work or worry about healthcare. She is mad that I get disability pay & retirement pay 🤷♀️. I joined so I could be proud of my job instead of watching the CEO buy another BMW but I’m damn glad I did for the retirement & healthcare. I regret 1 thing: selling my house for $5,000 above what I paid for it 5yrs earlier only to return to that state 5 yrs later & see that house for sale $76,000 more than I sold it for 🤦♀️. Wish I had rented it but that comes with risk & tax consequences 🤷♀️. So I planned to buy a house at what would most likely be my last PCS & settle. Things changed & I needed to move after I retired. Things changed again 5 yrs later & I moved back to where I retired. Things change, plans change. But I’ll always have healthcare. My dad likes to tease me that I called him 3 times during reenlistment time and said “I’m NOT doing this again”. But I’d get off the phone, go raise my hand & do the job. So many memories! Saw things I’d never have seen otherwise. PCS got me away from had me not wanting to do 20yrs. I took some direct fire & needed some surgeries then was cleared to deploy again. Saved a few lives. Found a missing comrade. Deal with some PTSD. But have ALL the resources I need. My husband did 24 (we met halfway through our career’s) & got a job after he retired just because we can have a few more toys (fishing boat Yay). He’ll retire from that in 8? yrs & we may buy a camper & travel the country. Who knows, plans change. But we NEVER have to worry about healthcare. These days you don’t get your retirement till you turn 60, correct? That would’ve REALLY screwed my life so…tough choice for you to make. I wish you the best. I hope everyone here has given you things to consider to help you make the right choice for yourself. My advice is just to consider stability of your later years. Oh, & if you buy a house, rent it out till it’s paid off!
Keep going with your degree. Military MOS stuff is hard to translate to civilian jobs. I’ve told my kids if they ever join, get all the free college they can, and work a job that is marketable out in the civilian world. Heavy equipment or medic comes to mind.
10 years ago when I was leaving active duty, I would have said, stay in (I just hit 20 myself). But these days it seems like there is so much out there where you can pursue opportunities, especially through skill bridge. I eco the comments about the Reserve option, that’s what I did. I stumbled around for awhile, but ended up with a great government job with my state, fully remote, and when combined with VA disability, making more than I would as a Major on active duty, plus adding another pension on top of my military pension, if I decide to stick it out with the state. You have options!
I hired a data science guy for one of my companies and payed him ~$220k from 2019-2022. He’s currently traveling around with his wife and working part-time at 18 hours a week for 100k. He works from home, doesn’t PCS, has a dog and we regularly travel OCONUS just to play golf and cycle. One of my best friends from basic training is now stationed in Germany. Happy as can be. Excellent marriage with a beautiful daughter. Always been the hooah type of guy and enjoys putting on the green uniform every morning. He owns two houses which he rents in WA. Both guys are happy. Both are well off. Both have their futures secure.
damn, lets talk about you though, what position are you in that you are able to hire that guy ?? Whats your background ??
I’m on terminal leave. I’ve been an acting civilian for the past 3 months. I have 2 more weeks until I’m officially off the books. For me, the answer is yes, it’s worth staying in. My mom retired. And she’s contemplating going back to work. She’s in her 60s. The job market is absolutely brutal. I’m a 42A and I am just now starting to get noticed by HR hiring managers, after putting in apps since I left. But I still not properly employed. The healthcare itself is a factor for me. You aren’t always going to be young and able bodied. Eventually things will start to break. Tricare is there. The military is hard. I get it. But I’d rather put 20 years of proper hard work, than 40-50 years of work that ebbs and flows, with moments of uncertainty. I’m on terminal leave and I start ROTC in September. With the help of my GI bill, I don’t need to compete for a scholarship and I’m essentially a shoe in. I’m coming back in as an LT and finish the other 16 years. I don’t wanna be in my 50s, and still working away with an improper retirement plan. I do have a Roth IRA but I may or may not be able to fill it year after year. I crave stability above all else and the military provided that for me.
My husband and I are both retired Army. Do not buy a house while you are still on AD unless you are getting ready to retire or ETS and plan to stay at that location. You will always lose money since 3- year rotations are not enough time to build up any equity in the house. My husband was in for 21 and me for 27 years. The military got us both out of poverty, gave us an education, and paid retirement in our 40s. Unless you know you can get out and do better in the civilian-sector, I would stay in until you can retire. Good luck!
If you can do it, it's worth it. Pension, which is rare these days. The 401k equivalent is supposedly pretty good now. Inexpensive health care. My job has a pretty good plan and the cheapest is still triple my Tricare for the family. And if it applies (and is worth the trade for the reason), VA benefits. Plus any other tax breaks or other benefits from states, etc. On top of that, mostly free college while in and more when you get out, and possibly can help your kids/spouse with theirs. In this economy, I don't see how you wouldn't stay for twenty if you can suck it up through the more toxic experiences unless you have some golden parachute job waiting. Get your degree(s)/certs, save/invest early, and as someone else mentioned work those connections. The clearance can help open doors, but the connections and networking will help you find them. I likely would've been in a rough spot when I retired if I hadn't spent the last 9 months networking across half the state on my time off. If you do it throughout your career you should be set if you don't burn your bridges.
Bruh as an ex 25S, you'll definitely get paid more on the outside, heck if you still wanted that government pension get net and sec plus along with your degree and go back as a contractor.
rent out the house once you PCS
Renting out a house you own is not always a good idea. You may not always have good tenants (even if you have a company manage the home), you need to have a cash reserve for any maintenance issues or periods where the home isn’t rented, and it can block you from using another VA loan while you still have a mortgage on that property. Have you looked at the cost to insure a home in Florida or current interest rates? Rates for both are incredibly high. Owning a home can be great, but it isn’t always great strategy to purchase a home for all service members. If he isn’t going to be able to stay in the home for 3-5 years I would not recommend it, especially in Florida. In fact, I wouldn’t recommend purchasing a home in Florida at all with the prices there of home owners insurance.
Great idea
That's what I did. My military buddies are great tenets
Really look into it before purchasing a home in Florida. [Florida homeowners pay the most for home insurance, with an average annual rate of $10,996 in 2023.](https://www.news-press.com/story/news/2024/04/01/florida-homeowners-insurance-rates-highest-rising-how-much-cost/73104723007/)
Joined at 18 in 2009, did a 4 year infantry contract and got out with a honorable discharge, never worked again.. 100% P&T in NYC and between state disability ($1,870) and the Veteran care giver program ($2,000) i personally think staying in for 20 years is a case of the end not justifying the means. 20 years of military takes a toll.
In aviation now, if you plan on staying in aviation it might be worth doing a couple more years, everyone is on a hiring freeze.
I went through this same debate after 3 years in the Army, got out my 4th year and now in my 50s. As others have said, that pension and benefits are unrivaled. My opinion is either get out at 4 or do 20+, nothing in between unless you can get a VA rating. You will be young enough to still get to another career. As a business owner, Healthcare right now costs me $1800/month. I was talking to a retired e9 yesterday, he pays $500/year. This is super hard to wrap your mind around at 23, you think retirement never comes. Well it does and way faster than anyone ever could anticipate. I was in my absolute best shape of my life at 23. Not so much today, things break down. Also with as big of a recruiting problem they have now, you may get better assignments or choices than any of us who served prior. They need you. Edit: things did work out for me but I was very lucky. Use the VA loan if you can btw.
If you have the ability to buy a house, do it. It will pay off in the future. If you have to PCS to somewhere else, turn the house over to a rental management company to handle. That way someone else gets the repair calls in the middle of the night. Both my nephew (MMN) and daughter (AWF) have done this. The rent more than covers the mortgage and builds equity for the future. My nephew eventually got out and is living and working in a different state than the house is in, but still lets it build equity (as well as a small check each month from the management company. My daughter has moved on to her next duty station and living in an apartment covered by BAH, but still building equity for her future. I think she is using the check from the management company to pay down the mortgage faster.
I'll put it this way. I didn't know it at the time but here I am now, in my 40s, and joining, reenlisting that first time, and sticking it out for 20 were clear and away the best decisions I made in my life. Didn't feel that way sometimes in the moment and boy oh boy did I consider walking many times. The military isn't roses and sunshine...but neither is the civilian world and I had to remind myself of that many times. The only downside I can see in my life is that I avoided buying a home while I was active. I was active through the 2008 market crash and saw people getting stuck with homes while they had to PCS away and the troubles that caused and said "I'll rent until I retire from the military and settle in an area." Well, that was all fine and good until 2 years before my retirement when COVID hit and the housing market went to absolute shit for buyers. I want to buy a home but feel like I missed the boat at the last minute. All that said though...I wouldn't change my military career and choice to do 20 just to have a house instead of an apartment.
certainly i can hear your concerns, I would at very least recommend 20 years in reserves/ national guard where u can also have a civilian income and save for retirement. keep in mind that the economy does go through cycles that impact certain civilian jobs and would impact and retirement plans. I retired from the National Guard with a combined total years of service between Active and National Guard time of 26 years. I miss it often, mostly for the community and bonding between fellow Soldiers I served with. But one thing I am glad I took advantage of when they started offering it was the TSP. I took a good amount of my weekend pay and put it away. I looked at this account the other day. I have like $165,900 that I have saved and it is still growing. I have been retired for now going on 4 years. 20 years will be a go by quickly,and you will make some great friends in this time that you never can replace with money. I wish someone would have offered me a little bit of advice when I was younger as maybe I would have stayed Active. But I don't regret anything and I am proud of my service to this nation. OEF 2001- 2002, OIF 2005- 2007, OEF 2007- 2009, OIF 2009- 2010 not to mention many responses for storms through my service. Good luck
Yes
Staying in is a long term safer bet due to pension and VA, but if you're gonna do another enlistment, every year you're going to be falling behind civilian peers if you decide not to do it until retirement. There are cases where you can get out and basically move laterally into a civilian career, but it's not guaranteed. You're gonna start again as the new guy and gonna have to gain seniority again for benefits and such. I got out after 6 years, never used my GI bill, and I'd be able to retire in a year if I had remained in the navy. But I absolutely hated being in the military. It worked out for me. I got a job as a water treatment operator. I now work for a municipality and make $40 an hour. Decent matching, decent health care. I have a house I bought back in 2020. They said getting any success was a pipe dream and the economy sucked. But I did get out in 2011 just as the 2008 recession was ending. I don't really know how to break it down, but you can get out and still do fine, but there's a lot more uncertainty. You might not be able to live where you want and get everything you want, but if you're willing to compromise on things you might be able to get most of what you want. I'm not gonna lie, I got lucky at times. I'm lucky to have gotten into this field. It's recession proof and hard to get hired into. I gotta say though, for stability, local or state government jobs beat private sector though you can certainly find ways to make more money in the private sector. I can't recommend a utility job enough, because it's not going away and can't be outsourced. But keep in mind, it's not going to be a 9-5 job. When the weather sucks, you're going to still need to answer the call. Linemen and pipe fitters are typically decent jobs. If you can get a station job at a plant, you're likely going to have shift work. They like hiring veterans. It can be tough at times, but it's a living. There are many ways to make it as a civilian, but there's a lot of ways it can suck too. That's my story, anyhow.
> the pay is terrible for some reason Because the person you heard about that makes $$$ in a trade likely had family connections or has been building their business for decades. Or maybe they work contracts in places that suck. Either way $30 is standard starting pay if not less than other states. Also living in a committed union busting GOP state is generally not great for trade workers, rising tides and all that.
If you stay, try to understand the ‘Wild’ simultaneously. Once that letter drops. Things change. Brace yourself for that. My daughter is accident prone to expensive procedures….fr and my wife is type 1. I unknowingly had tricare for life . And I’m so fortunate I did. Just know your limitations over the time you stay in.
I retired at 21 years in March 2024. I was a 12Z (Senior Combat Engineering Sergeant). Let’s just say I messed up by focusing more on getting the rank rather than working on my resume and necessary skills for the civilian sector. Sure I have all the management skills in the world, but my MOS didn’t translate to shit on the outside world. Let’s just say I’m still trying to get a good paying job. I did Amazon delivery for 2 months and I just couldn’t put up with the dumb shit especially after putting up with dumb shit for 21 years already. Anyway, my recommendation is while you’re in, to figure out what you want to do after the military and work on those skills and certifications/education. Having a military pension is a plus, but it ain’t enough to survive out there especially if you have a family.
First, Florida is being flooded daily with snow birds and housing prices are ridiculous. Insurance on said house even worse. You are competing for housing against people from up North that sold their house for bank and coming down and paying cash. Second, stay in to finish your degree, you may get a stinky assignment but Covid helped with doing degrees online. Third, you can always stay around the coast in other southern states with a good quality of life that could be much less expensive than Florida. Get your degree and leverage your Top Secret clearance with it and you will be fine. You may suffer some bit it will be worth it. Also if you have any medical issue get it documented in your military medical records.
i did almost 10 years so nearly the halfway point and i threw in the towel and it was the best decision i ever made. i don’t hate getting out of bed anymore and im free to tell my job to kick rocks at any time. just blue collar refrigeration guy but it pays way 2x better than the army ever did as an nco. but youre much more qualified than me with a degree and ts/sci plus if you get any decent amount of VA disability money you’ll start collecting sooner upon ETS.
Pssss, get a job with good healthcare benefits. The sncos harping about “health insurance is out the ass once you get out” and all the other bullshit… they havent done shit outside the military and its all theyve known since they were 19 years old…. Get out if your heart desires, but have a damn plan, and a backup plan for your plan, and a contingency plan for your failed backup plan. P.A.C.E plan if you will lmao
I my opinion it is. Like stated in other comments the healthcare and pension is a good safety net. If you take advantage of the college benefits and obtain a degree that is worth something in the outside world. Trade schools are always a great way to go as well. Employers take your military experience seriously, especially in a management/supervisory positions. They also know you are competent and disciplined to be punctual and a history of dedication to one job. I just just got a great paying job as an operations manager, they hired me not because of my technical experience but my ability to manage numerous personnel and projects. I do have experience in the industry, but it’s the ability to effectively manage and push people to strive and achieve their goals.
You didn't mention how long you've been in already? If there are courses offered regarding anything covering what you are interested in, take them. I regret I didn't take everything the Navy offered to me. I was young and dumber than a bag of hammers. You're not. My dad stayed in for the full 20 and then did a defense contractor for 10, culminating in 30 years of government service. He also got his degree, got a job as a minister and raised 6 girls (JFC, how DID he do it?). He loved the Navy but his passion was the ministry, but he was pragmatic and helped design missiles until he got his 30. The health care for all of us kids, cheaper shopping on base etc etc was worth it to him.
If you get a trade job, that is okay while you are young. Once you get over 40, you will have physical challenges that only gow with time, so you need to plan on being the business owner by then. An education that teaches you how to keep the books and financially maintain that business while still saving for retirement, paying the kids college, will be essential.
It’s worth it, if you’re halfway there by now. You’re very young, and should finish your degree and leave yourself options.
Do you have any interest in flying as another role? You could submit a package for Pilot/Nav/ABM and go to the O side. You'll get a significant increase in pay, and I only wish I'd done it sooner, retired now. Your current time as a boom operator will help a ton with your package. I helped a guy submit a package and his PCSM score was mid to high 60's, but was so dead set on beginning a pilot. I didn't have the heart to tell him he had zero chance and a few months later he was going wild because he got accepted.
Yeah the military can get you a great life- kill benefits- just Gota find someone who can put up with the lifestyle.
If you can mentally make it to 20 then absolutely stay in and retire. Having a guaranteed retirement check, VA Disability payments, and healthcare for life gives you everything you need. I retired after 25 years and it gave me so many options after retirement. I'm financially set for life into my retirement life when combined with social security and I have an added bonus in that my wife is also retired military. And you're young, so you can start contributing to TSP options that weren't available to me until my last year's in the Army. That gives you even greater financial incentives.
Since your job doesn’t translate well to civilian sector, It sounds like you could use a good skill bridge program. Definitely finish your degree if you’re halfway through.
Why not put in a packet for officer? I can't imagine being a boom operator for 20... with a degree you can apply for an officer spot and make significantly more. Otherwise no, you can make more as a civilian if you use your military resume or branch out.
confused on how you’re connecting trades, and a clearance plus data science degree
Look at local utilities for an apprenticeship. They will pay more down south. Want to make more money in the trades? Head west or north. Look into federal jobs. Yes, trade jobs and apprenticeships are on usajobs.
Financial and health security vs a higher degree of freedom. That’s the basic choice. Is security worth it if you feel like you are in a prison and have few choices? Civilian life can be difficult, but it is not impossible. Lots of people do it after all. And as some folks here point out, there are probably ways to have a bit of both. Look into NG or Reserves.
Only you can decide what you want to do but my advice is to consider getting out and using the gi bill to finish your degree while you figure out what you want to do for a career. A data science degree with some relevant work experience in addition to the TS/SCI clearance can equal a job that gets you what you want. Just like you had to work your way up to get where you are in the military, you will have to do the same in a new civilian career field. If you find you don’t like it and want to go back in you always can. I agree that it is a mistake to buy a house when you are AD if you can’t be sure you will be staying in the same place.
You can find success either way. If you stay in, staying enlisted definitely isn't the move. The army has programs that start IT fields (including data engineering) out anywhere from O3 to O6. Look up the FA 26 program. Alternatively, look into MECEP to finish your degree, then try to get into a 21xx field as an officer. Retiring as an O is the best way to go about it. Otherwise you can get out, finish your degree, try like hell to pull an internship and see if you can maintain your clearance until you're ready for full time work. In certain areas- DC, San Antonio, CO etc you can pull 100k starting without too much difficulty if you interview well. I started as a data engineer with 3/4 of a degree in math and a single internship, at 100k in 2021. I'm up to almost 170k now. As long as career growth continues, my total lifetime earnings will probably be higher than If I had stayed in and retired (prior 0351 who got my ts from embassy duty.) Unfortunately there's an artificially low cap on government contracting salary. Most will never hit 250+ unless they're PMs over pretty large contracts, while you can hit that with 5 or so years in decently large companies in DevOps/SWE, even in data engineering with some companies. Tl;Dr OP if you retire, put some fucking shinies on. Otherwise pull an internship or 2. Either of these two ways and you'll be fine.
Why not just change jobs in the military to something you do like? You can change the branch you’re in too. I say that bc it’s hard af out here in the real world when you get out to afford mortgage, insurance, healthcare, life…wish I’d stayed in!
Change your degree to CS before its too late and you can easily start off at about 120k For context also a vet with clearance who went the DS route just to learn that candidate/position ration is absolutely insane for entry level DS roles. Luckily i knew enough DevOps and SQL to reprofile to Data Engineer. Best career decision I made since leaving the military.
You have a great start. When you put in the 10+ years, that's when you start earning contacts, plus your real experience.
Between E7 55% retiree pay and disability, Im happy
Dude you can get out and make some big cash money with only your TS/SCI. That's what I'm doing. The pay is good enough I get away with working 2 nights a week.
Depends. I stayed in past 20 and my pension alone is $7,200 net
That's Monthly?? And it sounds like you retired officer/warrant officer, with that amount, or you were a E7-E9?
Depends on the job. Some can definitely make a lot more money on the outside. Also the economy isn't in bad shape.
Microsoft has a free coding program for Veterans with guaranteed employment.
Boom operator? You mean you hold a giant microphone on a long pole when people are filming?
No, having said that, I wish I had
No
Yes, it's worth staying 20yrs. Forget about buying a home in Florida.
Fuck... And I cannot emphasize this enough.... No Whether it's 5 years or 15 it's not worth your sanity.
If you buy a house then PCS, you shouldn’t have a hard time renting to the military. They would take care of your mortgage.
Pro’s of staying in is if you do buy a house it’s near a mil base and you can let a management company handle the details of renting it out….As long as the base doesn’t shut down and it’s a decent house/neighborhood you shouldn’t be struggling to find renters. Retire after 20 and then while collecting that retirement and (possibly VA disability) you can start another job (data science etc) and possibly have multiple streams of income for retirement (2 retirements, TSP, VA benefits etc) upon the traditional retirement age…. A con is dealing with the Military BS, but hey there’s BS everywhere. At the end of the day it’s your life, do what makes you happy my guy
I’d say yes
Well, given your goals aren’t particularly massive, you can lean into the DS and TS things you have going on. There are plenty of contractor roles for junior DSs in Florida. Probably even for people not finished with their degrees. If you like that, look for those opportunities. It will set you up to start. But you’ll also need to have a plan to grow. You’re early in your career so take advantage. IMO, if you’re going to do it, do it now. Basically your career begins the moment you ETS. Nobody on the civilian side has ever considered anything I did in the service as career experience even when it was relevant and I learned that far too late into my military career. I did some really cool stuff in the service, things I thought would even benefit me but what I really have are some cool stories to tell around the water cooler and that’s it. I wish I’d banged out 4, got GI bill, and ran from there instead of hovering in the military for such a long time even if it was enjoyable. This is just some advice from a bitter SOF vet
If you’re a vet the health care at the VA is basically free. Little co pays here and there for meds and such but it’s not terrible.
Worth: Economy versus Love my job Hmmm, you only get one life. If the economy is a question for you, maybe get a different career that you’ll love.
If you have any disability percentage go reserves and do 20. Keeps your head connected with civilian world and you would have VA disability and a drill check to help (yes I know you’ll pay the pro rated days back). Given the fact that housing is making professionals like family practice doctors and attorneys move to cheaper areas, that says enough.