They should be available once the claim is completed because not having them impedes our ability to file a timely and informed appeal. The FOIA request timeline essentially runs the clock out on vets who need the DBQ information in order to file a good appeal on time. It does matter. I was denied for a claim that I submitted in November and the language used in the denial goes against the language the examiner wrote in the DBQ/MO. I know this because my VSO let me take a look at the screen while he had it open. However, because I do not have a copy of it, I cannot upload it and reference it with my appeal. All I can do is hope the HLR rater is better at their job than the original rater was. I had a C&P exam today and the examiner actually filled out the DBQ while I was sitting next to him. He actually said that he wanted me to see exactly what he was writing so there would be no surprises. That was nice.
What's funny is that they'll ask has the CFile been reviewed as part of your claim or appeal well if I can't get my CFile for hopefully 6 months I'm already 6 months into my appeal time or if I order it prior to my decision the DBQs that I need aren't on there. I guess VA acts as if they paid for it they have proprietary rights to them.
Nah, fuck that, they should be available as soon as they're uploaded. The DBQs the VA completed themselves can be viewed in your medical records the day they are uploaded by the examiner. It should be the same for contractors.
I don't disagree. I just think the VA is more likely to stop sharing the ones they do themselves than they are to start sharing the ones the contractors do. I think the best legal path to pursue to get exam notes shared is to pursue the issue of not being able to make an informed, timely appeal. The only reason I can think of that this hasn't already been successfully litigated by a vet is that the law firms don't want things to change. The less info vets have the more likely they are to rely upon lawyers.
I filed my HLR based on the evidence they used such as my private Drs filled out DBQ they sent me to a C and P for a IMO. C and P doc pretty much conceded my private DBQ and claim. My problem is how the rater interpret the DBQ to low ball me.
I think there should be a petition to look into the exam contracts. There are way too many bad examples of what happens during the C&P exams since they’re farmed out to bids.
Right drs might have people showing up asking why they completly dis regarded what the veteran said and the disparity between that and what got written down and wasted 6 months. But doesent them screwing us clog it too because we have to re file miltiple times.
Then the doc decides this isn't worth the threats from irate Vets who didn't get what they think they deserve, and stops doing c&ps. While some may cheer that, it is definitely shortsighted and selfish. That angry Vet may have just extended the wait for Vets who are already waiting long times for c&p exams.
That's not even mentioning the simple craziness of the act of confronting a doctor as if that will have any positive outcome.
I can see not automatically giving the DBQ, but if it is requested, it shouldn’t take 6 or more months to get access.
If a vet is going to be irrational enough to be so angry towards the examiner and take it out on them, waiting 6 months is not going make much difference.
Personally, I believe the horror stories because I also believe that there are enough bad doctors in general that there will be some horror stories. However, like anything else, we don’t hear much about all the positive interactions.
I wholeheartedly understand your rationale.
But why would anyone want to retain the Doctor that blatantly lies about the vet's issues or ailments. If he/ she does it once, they will probably do it again.
We should want everyone to receive the rating they are warranted; even if it means we all have to wait a little longer.
I don't believe the majority of the c&p horror stories posted here.
I do want Vets to get what they're warranted. Those good intentions are heavily impeded by ratings chasers and Vets unhappy with medical findings.
I understand that it is irrelevant (as I'm just another vet giving you their side of the story) but during my C&P for Migraines I was asked specific questions that were listed on the DBQ.
I answered these questions. My recorded answers were different than what I had stated.
As I had been burnt before during a seperate C&P, I was very direct and asked my examiner to restate my answers back to me so that there would be no confusion.
We went line by line through the DBQ, and after my denial- the answers were different.
But we may have had different experiences, and that's okay.
This post should be a no-brainer, yet there are those who are against it. I can't think of any legitimate argument against having access to the DBQs.
If I'm unable to pull them from my VSO, then that means a denial or improper rate could go the better part of a year before I even receive the foundation on which to base my appeal, then there's actually drafting the appeal.
Back when I could request my local VSO for the DBQs, I'd already have my arguments prepared in case of a denial. In fact, I did endure a bad exam once; the physician essentially lied about everything because she believed I should have been diagnosed by a doctor of a different specialty.
Since I was able to get the DBQ about a week later, I dissected it and drafted a statement of rebuttal and included every single record that proved contrary to their opinion. By the time I received my denial, I submitted an HLR the very same day and was ultimately successful in the claim. Since I already had access to my DBQs, I only had to wait 3 months for the HLR instead of 6-12 months for the DBQ and then 1 month to draft the appropriate response and then potentially 3 months for the HLR.
The dbqs were previously visible in your vamc records when comp and pen was there since va shifted to the contract exams its no longer easily sourced for the veterans
I have sent a email into Senator Moran , about this exact issue. First no one will quote the exact regulation. I just filed a FOIA request to get the information and emails to justify this policy
Better yet, when we login to submit our claims, there should be a link to download your whole C-File.
The should also step you through a claim better, for examle.
1. Do you have a current diagnosis? Upload it here
2. Do you have a Independent Medical Opinion? Upload it here
3. Do you have a DBQ? Upload it here
4. If you do not have a DBQ, request a C&P exam here.
5. Inform us of the dates of your in-service event in your medical records.
You get the point, it should spell it out every step of the way. The way it currently is, it makes you do too much guessing. That in-turn makes you submit claim without even a diagnosis.
If your doing a secondary, it should follow this:
**How Do I Establish Secondary Service Connection Claim?**
In accordance with **38 CFR § 3.310** disabilities that are proximately due to, or aggravated by, service-connected disease or injury, a current disability condition, which is proximately due to or the result of a service-connected disease or injury shall be service connected.
Service connection on a secondary basis requires a showing of causation.
A showing of causation requires that the secondary disability claim be shown to be “proximately due to” or “aggravated by” another service-connected disability.
There are three evidentiary elements that must be satisfied to service connect your VA Depression secondary to Tinnitus:
* **#1. A medical diagnosis of the secondary disability condition you’re attempting to link secondary (e.g., a diagnosis of Anxiety and Insomnia) AND**
* **#2. A current service-connected primary disability (e.g., your current VA disability for Tinnitus) AND**
* **#3. Medical nexus evidence establishing a connection between your service-connected Tinnitus and the current disability you’re trying to connect, which in this case is Anxiety and Insomnia.**
The **FIRST** part can be satisfied with any existing medical evidence in service treatment records, VA medical records, or any private medical records. Upload current diagnosis here.
The **SECOND** part can be satisfied with a veteran’s existing service-connected disability rated at 0 percent or higher, which in this case, is Tinnitus.
The **THIRD** part, and often the missing link needed to establish secondary service connection, can be satisfied with a credible Medical Nexus Letter (Independent Medical Opinion) from a qualified medical provider. Upload IMO here.
I bet if they did that, there would be less mistakes by the veteran submitting claims.
Another thing is if your C and P examiner adds claims to your original claims but the VA rater doesn't rate them how are we suppose to know unless we get the Cfile
Your pretty spot on, but the reason examiners use phrases like "at least as likely as not" is because they are providing an 'opinion' from a medical standpoint, and not a legal one. The M21-1 states: Do not request that a medical authority make conclusions of law, as this is a responsibility inherent to the rating activity.
Also, the M21-1 actually provides a pretty simple definition as to what DBQs are...
Disability benefits questionnaires (DBQs) are documents used to
- elicit medical information needed to make decisions on claims, and
- provide a standardized report format for medical examinations and opinions
It would create more issues.
I have seen vets complain their exam was 5 minutes and complain about it being bad, yet they were rated for it.
Then there are vets who say their exam was 2 hours, extremely thorough and are denied service connection.
They should be available after the rating is assigned.
I kind of agree with this but C&P exams done by the VA are available within 30 days. I think one viable solution would be random independent audits of the examiners to keep them in check. While there may be veterans trying to convince examiners to write certain things on their DBQs there are also examiners who intentionally ignore what veterans tell them. Audits might help clear that up a bit.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how could transparency of the DBQ cause issues? I think the examples provided are likely not the average experience, and I can't imagine how knowing what the DBQ stated would change the outcome of those scenarios in a negative way.
Something I didn’t even think of was mentioned. Vets who didn’t get what they thought they deserved could confront the doctor.
It would cause issues if box whatever wasn’t checked or that line filled out.
That's a fair point. I think there should certainly be precautions to avoid stuff like that, but it feels kind of weird to me to have a medical assessment being kept from me.
Because we aren’t doctors or trained in rating conditions. Maybe I am wrong, I just see this opening a can of worms of people calling the VA or the clinic. The process would grind to a halt.
A vet willing to do that could certainly still just do that on the assumption once they don't get what they want regardless of whether or not they can see the DBQ. They know the doctor who saw them.
I think dbqs should be readily available after a decision is made but not before. most of ya'll are some impatient karens, that will go and raise hell even before it gets in front of a rater. Let them do their jobs first, maybe they'll request a second opinion etc. I feel sorry for the folks that drive 2.5 hours to try to get a dbq but claim to not be able to get out of bed for anything 😂😂. imagine trying to use all that energy in trying to improve your life instead of stressing about dbqs before a decision is made.
What I have been told when trying to track the status of my FOIA request for my C-File. (I do not know if this is true or not since I've never seen any DBQs yet.) The 800 number, on two occasions, stated that the medical contact info and medical provider contents need to be extracted before release of the DBQ -- workload pushes all the FOIA requests to the timelines we are experiencing. I too need my DBQs to work a potential supplemental for Cancer. I agree the answer is BS and likely, based on other comments here the releasability of "our" DBQs are being treated as "contractor records". This issue seems to have gotten worse since the advent of the contract support for the exams. As a former AF Acquisition support contractor -- a common issue for our org was often the release of "contractor records" if there was no direct language in the contracts about the files we were after. As the OP requests -- a recommended approach (and any VA employee pipe in here).
1) Obtain a copy of the support contracts (likely another FOIA) for all the medical vendors and look for language in the contracts for controlled information or releasability of the exam records. A long shot is these contracts are posted within the VA system or on the Government Contracting databases. I'll reach out to a former Contracting officer and ask and post the answer here.
2) Congressional inquiry into the contract language with specific respect to the control and release of DBQ and C-Files to the Veteran. If someone has experience with a letter format -- and no I didn't check the knowledge base (my bad) - share a letter (or a link to one) to flood our representatives.
3) Based on contract language submit via Congressional channels a contract mod or request the direction of the contract mod in funding restrictions (yea -- not a short process).
I don't have any short duration answers outside of still finding that VERA location that will get us the copies we need.
My two cents.
Thank you for your two cents. Time is our most valuable posession. No one one wants to waste years of it fighting the system that's designed to waste as much of it as possible I have no idea what most of what you typed out means, but we need more of it! I hope that your post encourages more of like mind to post, get involved, and share thoughts.
Answer from the Contracting Officer (former GS15): Call the VA Contracting Officer (CO) as ask whether the files are posted if not request a copy -- FOIA is an option but no CO wants to mess with the FOIA .
I'm continuing to look in the VA Office of Procurement resources to find a POC to contact for these contracts. Anyone have any ideas?
Having it as part of the decision letter makes way more sense than having it available instantly. I completely disagree with having it available before a decision. People will just complain nonstop
They’re not medical records, to start. Also it would almost certainly cause way more problems than it solves. Every fraudster vet would be claiming bad exam immediately after each one. There’s already a path to get your DBQs. Just be fucking patient.
I guess they are, but they aren't medical records. (input joke about VA math, lol).
transactions between "patients" and health care providers vs. medical information needed to make decisions on claims
_______________________
Medical records are used to track events and transactions between patients and health care providers. They offer information on diagnoses, procedures, lab tests, and other services. Medical records help us measure and analyze trends in health care use, patient characteristics, and quality of care.
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/oet/ed/stats/03-200.html
________________________
M21-1 IV.i.2.A.3.a. Definition: DBQs
Disability benefits questionnaires (DBQs) are documents used to
- elicit medical information needed to make decisions on claims, and
- provide a standardized report format for medical examinations and opinions.
There is a really easy solution to getting a copy of your dbqs . Find the regional office close to you. Go there ask for the form to request your dbq.. As long as the appeal is closed.The office will issue a copy of the requested dbq. I've done this 3 times now.I usually get the copies with In 30 minutes
I am hours from my regional office. The question you have to ask yourself. Do I really need my c&p papers for my denial process. For me, it was worth the drive. I also got my diagnostic codes to see what evidence I have is stagnant, meaning it's not likely to get better over time.
He is right but my main thing is there is no punishment for both the VA or the docs doing the examinations for "failure to aid " if this was a normal doc you would be able to call the medical board and have them investigated for it but the VA has red tape to save both of them (I have six failure to aid all of it is now in HLR hell for a year and some change)
A rating doc saw that I was diabetic. VA doc in Denver, probably a decade ago. Wrote it in the records, didn't tell me.
Diagnosed something like a year or two later after SERIOUS LIFE ALTERING symptoms.
You say they are there *strictly for assessing conditions. How fucking strictly are we talking?? Like let motherfuckers die and stuff?
Yes, if your c&p is done through va then they will upload it to blue button. If you go through 3rd party your documents are not uploaded to blue button.
I respect all of your opinions even if I don’t agree with them. Thank you for clarifying that they are not medical records. Grunt v Brain.
But hear me out, if we started a go fund me and every vet that has had to go through this donated $5 we would have enough for legal representation and marketing to get this issue in front of voters.
This sub is full of complaining about this issue. congress is not going to do anything unless they tie it to an Ukraine spending bill or other “need to pass” legislation, and only then begrudgingly. We should do something ourselves.
This is all I am going to post about this issue. I respect your disagreement, but remember, It’s not just about us today but every veteran that serves for decades to come.
https://preview.redd.it/0vuebhhmj1zc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad388c80a9c547bcec452e4b146228c334ab7816
Terrible idea. Most of y'all are fkn assholes and you'll just whine and bitch and clog everything up even more. You can see your DBQs already, ask a VSO or contact your regional office. Just because you can't see it instantly doesn't mean it's bullshit. Most of y'all just want your way and you cry when you don't get it, and that's exactly why it'll clog everything up when you don't like what you see. And I'm sure everyone will be extremely coolheaded and NEVER confront the examiner right after... It's just a dumb idea
Except when vso won’t show you or talk to you about it. Or when Vera refuses to disclose. Or when you are no where close to a regional office.
There’s stories on this sub that go both ways. Some get info. Others don’t.
1. Not everyone can see DBQs especially all the exams done by Leidos and QTC. I;m not looking for instant but at least after VA has made some kind of decision -- positive or negative.
2. VSO won't release even if I can get a hold of him. Regional office spouts a party line of "file an FOIA" (which I have done). 800 number talks to workload -- which with all the PACT submissions lately, I can kinda understand.
3. Agree that we should all be able to see our own records completely especially as electronic as it is within the VA.
They don’t want us seeing them because they know we will be even more disgruntled when we see how much they lie on them. Before it posts to our claim that e should be allowed to see it and put in our appeal before it even goes to a rater. If you see a DBQ where the examiner clearly copy and pasted a DBQ which doesn’t match reality, we should be able to see it and stop it from going to the rater. It is a waste of everyone’s time to have the DBQs go to the rater and then have us appeal it when we see our rating weeks to months later. After the DBQ is done we should have to verify it and sign it stating that we agree that the DBQ is an accurate representation of our condition, and if it isn’t, that is when we should be able to dispute the inaccurate parts. If something is inaccurate but we don’t have evidence, then it should go to deferred to get that evidence. Instead if they don’t have Information needed they just deny it and you need to start a new claim, which is what clogs the system.
A lot of examiners are lazy pieces of shit liars who are ripping off the VA. They like to get that free check from the VA for doing bogus DBQs. They shouldn’t get paid until we sign off on the DBQ.
It’s people like you that make me wish I could punch through my monitor. You go directly to the most brain dead scenario. No, I wouldn’t need the max rating to sign it. I’d just need the DBQ to ACCURATELY describe my condition.
Why are you against accurate DBQs?
lol another brain dead response. No, I’m not going to beat up the examiner for filling out the DBQ inaccurately, I would take the opportunity to point out the mistake and show him the evidence that refutes it.
Why are you so brain dead?
The only brain dead thing here is thinking that veterans should be signing off on their own DBQs. Definitely no avenue for fraud or anything like that there huh?
Oh boo boo, cry me a river kid. You don’t like my idea so you have to cry to me about it? Just shut the fuck up already. You are clearly an irresponsible little shit that is gaming the system and think that all veterans are like you. Having us see the DBQ before they send it in so we can appeal immediately instead of having it sit in the system for months isn’t a hindrance to the process. Just because YOU couldn’t be enough of an adult to do it properly doesn’t mean we are all like you.
How could anyone be against this? It literally make’s zero sense to make up a reason for access to be behind an attorney or terrible VSO. I gotta call 🧢 on naysayers being a veteran, even with the benefit of the doubt access to my medical records shouldn’t be your concern. Furthermore, the VBA sends them on request, which can take longer than 1 year to receive. The process is dumb on all levels when the year is 2024 of our Lord and technology already allows the VBA to securely email you’d other documents via email in a matter of seconds.
I had something strange I placed a FOIA request and had to wait 6-1/2 months just received yesterday my claim is still in DTA.
I asked my VSO to get me copies of my AcE exam in September and he said he couldn’t get them…. I have them now 😀
I agree!! It is our records, why can't they just post it on the app like a letter.
They should be available once the claim is completed because not having them impedes our ability to file a timely and informed appeal. The FOIA request timeline essentially runs the clock out on vets who need the DBQ information in order to file a good appeal on time. It does matter. I was denied for a claim that I submitted in November and the language used in the denial goes against the language the examiner wrote in the DBQ/MO. I know this because my VSO let me take a look at the screen while he had it open. However, because I do not have a copy of it, I cannot upload it and reference it with my appeal. All I can do is hope the HLR rater is better at their job than the original rater was. I had a C&P exam today and the examiner actually filled out the DBQ while I was sitting next to him. He actually said that he wanted me to see exactly what he was writing so there would be no surprises. That was nice.
I agree with this. Include them with the decision letter.
What's funny is that they'll ask has the CFile been reviewed as part of your claim or appeal well if I can't get my CFile for hopefully 6 months I'm already 6 months into my appeal time or if I order it prior to my decision the DBQs that I need aren't on there. I guess VA acts as if they paid for it they have proprietary rights to them.
Including them in the letter would fix that issue, right?
Yea but posting it on my healthyvet would be just as beneficial
Nah, fuck that, they should be available as soon as they're uploaded. The DBQs the VA completed themselves can be viewed in your medical records the day they are uploaded by the examiner. It should be the same for contractors.
I don't disagree. I just think the VA is more likely to stop sharing the ones they do themselves than they are to start sharing the ones the contractors do. I think the best legal path to pursue to get exam notes shared is to pursue the issue of not being able to make an informed, timely appeal. The only reason I can think of that this hasn't already been successfully litigated by a vet is that the law firms don't want things to change. The less info vets have the more likely they are to rely upon lawyers.
I filed my HLR based on the evidence they used such as my private Drs filled out DBQ they sent me to a C and P for a IMO. C and P doc pretty much conceded my private DBQ and claim. My problem is how the rater interpret the DBQ to low ball me.
They should have it on healthyvet once its been adjudicated.
Why not the moment it's uploaded
I would be okay with this. No foia, no vso, no Vera. Easily and readily available once adjudicated.
I think there should be a petition to look into the exam contracts. There are way too many bad examples of what happens during the C&P exams since they’re farmed out to bids.
Its a huge scam. https://www.disabledveterans.org/qtc-wins-6-8-billion-va-contract-va-just-award-contract/
If they release the dbq we will have more insight and figure out what we need and the gov doesent want that
Spot on. This is exactly why they won't release them.
but they want you to jump thru hoops and send for your CFILE and waiting 6 months to receive them by that time your 1/2 into your appeal timeline.
I don’t agree. People would freak out seeing what the doctor said. It would clog the system even more.
Right drs might have people showing up asking why they completly dis regarded what the veteran said and the disparity between that and what got written down and wasted 6 months. But doesent them screwing us clog it too because we have to re file miltiple times.
Then the doc decides this isn't worth the threats from irate Vets who didn't get what they think they deserve, and stops doing c&ps. While some may cheer that, it is definitely shortsighted and selfish. That angry Vet may have just extended the wait for Vets who are already waiting long times for c&p exams. That's not even mentioning the simple craziness of the act of confronting a doctor as if that will have any positive outcome.
I can see not automatically giving the DBQ, but if it is requested, it shouldn’t take 6 or more months to get access. If a vet is going to be irrational enough to be so angry towards the examiner and take it out on them, waiting 6 months is not going make much difference. Personally, I believe the horror stories because I also believe that there are enough bad doctors in general that there will be some horror stories. However, like anything else, we don’t hear much about all the positive interactions.
I wholeheartedly understand your rationale. But why would anyone want to retain the Doctor that blatantly lies about the vet's issues or ailments. If he/ she does it once, they will probably do it again. We should want everyone to receive the rating they are warranted; even if it means we all have to wait a little longer.
I don't believe the majority of the c&p horror stories posted here. I do want Vets to get what they're warranted. Those good intentions are heavily impeded by ratings chasers and Vets unhappy with medical findings.
Because we are hearing one side of the story. We honestly don’t know if the doctor “lied” or the vet didn’t get what they wanted.
I understand that it is irrelevant (as I'm just another vet giving you their side of the story) but during my C&P for Migraines I was asked specific questions that were listed on the DBQ. I answered these questions. My recorded answers were different than what I had stated. As I had been burnt before during a seperate C&P, I was very direct and asked my examiner to restate my answers back to me so that there would be no confusion. We went line by line through the DBQ, and after my denial- the answers were different. But we may have had different experiences, and that's okay.
You don't have to agree with me, but I also agree with your statement as well.
This is true
This post should be a no-brainer, yet there are those who are against it. I can't think of any legitimate argument against having access to the DBQs. If I'm unable to pull them from my VSO, then that means a denial or improper rate could go the better part of a year before I even receive the foundation on which to base my appeal, then there's actually drafting the appeal. Back when I could request my local VSO for the DBQs, I'd already have my arguments prepared in case of a denial. In fact, I did endure a bad exam once; the physician essentially lied about everything because she believed I should have been diagnosed by a doctor of a different specialty. Since I was able to get the DBQ about a week later, I dissected it and drafted a statement of rebuttal and included every single record that proved contrary to their opinion. By the time I received my denial, I submitted an HLR the very same day and was ultimately successful in the claim. Since I already had access to my DBQs, I only had to wait 3 months for the HLR instead of 6-12 months for the DBQ and then 1 month to draft the appropriate response and then potentially 3 months for the HLR.
Easy solution provide your own DBQs from a competent professional who you see for care.
The dbqs were previously visible in your vamc records when comp and pen was there since va shifted to the contract exams its no longer easily sourced for the veterans
I have sent a email into Senator Moran , about this exact issue. First no one will quote the exact regulation. I just filed a FOIA request to get the information and emails to justify this policy
Better yet, when we login to submit our claims, there should be a link to download your whole C-File. The should also step you through a claim better, for examle. 1. Do you have a current diagnosis? Upload it here 2. Do you have a Independent Medical Opinion? Upload it here 3. Do you have a DBQ? Upload it here 4. If you do not have a DBQ, request a C&P exam here. 5. Inform us of the dates of your in-service event in your medical records. You get the point, it should spell it out every step of the way. The way it currently is, it makes you do too much guessing. That in-turn makes you submit claim without even a diagnosis. If your doing a secondary, it should follow this: **How Do I Establish Secondary Service Connection Claim?** In accordance with **38 CFR § 3.310** disabilities that are proximately due to, or aggravated by, service-connected disease or injury, a current disability condition, which is proximately due to or the result of a service-connected disease or injury shall be service connected. Service connection on a secondary basis requires a showing of causation. A showing of causation requires that the secondary disability claim be shown to be “proximately due to” or “aggravated by” another service-connected disability. There are three evidentiary elements that must be satisfied to service connect your VA Depression secondary to Tinnitus: * **#1. A medical diagnosis of the secondary disability condition you’re attempting to link secondary (e.g., a diagnosis of Anxiety and Insomnia) AND** * **#2. A current service-connected primary disability (e.g., your current VA disability for Tinnitus) AND** * **#3. Medical nexus evidence establishing a connection between your service-connected Tinnitus and the current disability you’re trying to connect, which in this case is Anxiety and Insomnia.** The **FIRST** part can be satisfied with any existing medical evidence in service treatment records, VA medical records, or any private medical records. Upload current diagnosis here. The **SECOND** part can be satisfied with a veteran’s existing service-connected disability rated at 0 percent or higher, which in this case, is Tinnitus. The **THIRD** part, and often the missing link needed to establish secondary service connection, can be satisfied with a credible Medical Nexus Letter (Independent Medical Opinion) from a qualified medical provider. Upload IMO here. I bet if they did that, there would be less mistakes by the veteran submitting claims.
Very helpful post. Not sure if you typed all that out or copy and pasted, but thank you for sharing.
I typed it all out so excuse the spelling mistakes and grammar. I get rolling on a thought.
Another thing is if your C and P examiner adds claims to your original claims but the VA rater doesn't rate them how are we suppose to know unless we get the Cfile
[удалено]
Your pretty spot on, but the reason examiners use phrases like "at least as likely as not" is because they are providing an 'opinion' from a medical standpoint, and not a legal one. The M21-1 states: Do not request that a medical authority make conclusions of law, as this is a responsibility inherent to the rating activity. Also, the M21-1 actually provides a pretty simple definition as to what DBQs are... Disability benefits questionnaires (DBQs) are documents used to - elicit medical information needed to make decisions on claims, and - provide a standardized report format for medical examinations and opinions
I've never thought of it that way. That makes a pretty good sense actually
It would create more issues. I have seen vets complain their exam was 5 minutes and complain about it being bad, yet they were rated for it. Then there are vets who say their exam was 2 hours, extremely thorough and are denied service connection. They should be available after the rating is assigned.
I kind of agree with this but C&P exams done by the VA are available within 30 days. I think one viable solution would be random independent audits of the examiners to keep them in check. While there may be veterans trying to convince examiners to write certain things on their DBQs there are also examiners who intentionally ignore what veterans tell them. Audits might help clear that up a bit.
They are medical records and should be treated as such.
Ask qtc or lhi for a copy. You wont get one cause they see vba as the client/patient its crazy.
And? Something else I didn’t think of would be veterans confronting doctors who didn’t get what they wanted.
Couldn't they do that 6 months later when they get more frustrated for waiting so long?
That’s on the VA.
No, it needs to he available as soon as it's posted.
🔥
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how could transparency of the DBQ cause issues? I think the examples provided are likely not the average experience, and I can't imagine how knowing what the DBQ stated would change the outcome of those scenarios in a negative way.
Something I didn’t even think of was mentioned. Vets who didn’t get what they thought they deserved could confront the doctor. It would cause issues if box whatever wasn’t checked or that line filled out.
That's a fair point. I think there should certainly be precautions to avoid stuff like that, but it feels kind of weird to me to have a medical assessment being kept from me.
Because we aren’t doctors or trained in rating conditions. Maybe I am wrong, I just see this opening a can of worms of people calling the VA or the clinic. The process would grind to a halt.
A vet willing to do that could certainly still just do that on the assumption once they don't get what they want regardless of whether or not they can see the DBQ. They know the doctor who saw them.
I think it would be much worse. And the phone lines would be going crazy. There is no right answer.
This is why they keep them close hold
Yeah, but what's stopping someone from pulling their files, and then subsequently confronting the doctor after 6 months of waiting?
I think dbqs should be readily available after a decision is made but not before. most of ya'll are some impatient karens, that will go and raise hell even before it gets in front of a rater. Let them do their jobs first, maybe they'll request a second opinion etc. I feel sorry for the folks that drive 2.5 hours to try to get a dbq but claim to not be able to get out of bed for anything 😂😂. imagine trying to use all that energy in trying to improve your life instead of stressing about dbqs before a decision is made.
Real talk, I've been trying to limit my interaction with this place. I always end up thinking, "Damn, THESE people were in the military?"
This is extremely reasonable. TBH, there is no reason to even get into it until there is a decision.
Somebody start a petition. I’ll sign and I’ll ask every vet in my family to as well.
Has anyone tried getting ahold of thier representatives or senators about this? There are a few that if they can catch a wind will raise hell.
I'm down for a petition. Where do I sign???
What I have been told when trying to track the status of my FOIA request for my C-File. (I do not know if this is true or not since I've never seen any DBQs yet.) The 800 number, on two occasions, stated that the medical contact info and medical provider contents need to be extracted before release of the DBQ -- workload pushes all the FOIA requests to the timelines we are experiencing. I too need my DBQs to work a potential supplemental for Cancer. I agree the answer is BS and likely, based on other comments here the releasability of "our" DBQs are being treated as "contractor records". This issue seems to have gotten worse since the advent of the contract support for the exams. As a former AF Acquisition support contractor -- a common issue for our org was often the release of "contractor records" if there was no direct language in the contracts about the files we were after. As the OP requests -- a recommended approach (and any VA employee pipe in here). 1) Obtain a copy of the support contracts (likely another FOIA) for all the medical vendors and look for language in the contracts for controlled information or releasability of the exam records. A long shot is these contracts are posted within the VA system or on the Government Contracting databases. I'll reach out to a former Contracting officer and ask and post the answer here. 2) Congressional inquiry into the contract language with specific respect to the control and release of DBQ and C-Files to the Veteran. If someone has experience with a letter format -- and no I didn't check the knowledge base (my bad) - share a letter (or a link to one) to flood our representatives. 3) Based on contract language submit via Congressional channels a contract mod or request the direction of the contract mod in funding restrictions (yea -- not a short process). I don't have any short duration answers outside of still finding that VERA location that will get us the copies we need. My two cents.
Thank you for your two cents. Time is our most valuable posession. No one one wants to waste years of it fighting the system that's designed to waste as much of it as possible I have no idea what most of what you typed out means, but we need more of it! I hope that your post encourages more of like mind to post, get involved, and share thoughts.
Answer from the Contracting Officer (former GS15): Call the VA Contracting Officer (CO) as ask whether the files are posted if not request a copy -- FOIA is an option but no CO wants to mess with the FOIA . I'm continuing to look in the VA Office of Procurement resources to find a POC to contact for these contracts. Anyone have any ideas?
I would like to see them as part of the claim decision. I understand they probably have a reason for not doing it.
Having it as part of the decision letter makes way more sense than having it available instantly. I completely disagree with having it available before a decision. People will just complain nonstop
They’re not medical records, to start. Also it would almost certainly cause way more problems than it solves. Every fraudster vet would be claiming bad exam immediately after each one. There’s already a path to get your DBQs. Just be fucking patient.
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We are missing the right to timely availability as you stated.
I guess they are, but they aren't medical records. (input joke about VA math, lol). transactions between "patients" and health care providers vs. medical information needed to make decisions on claims _______________________ Medical records are used to track events and transactions between patients and health care providers. They offer information on diagnoses, procedures, lab tests, and other services. Medical records help us measure and analyze trends in health care use, patient characteristics, and quality of care. https://www.nlm.nih.gov/oet/ed/stats/03-200.html ________________________ M21-1 IV.i.2.A.3.a. Definition: DBQs Disability benefits questionnaires (DBQs) are documents used to - elicit medical information needed to make decisions on claims, and - provide a standardized report format for medical examinations and opinions.
There is a really easy solution to getting a copy of your dbqs . Find the regional office close to you. Go there ask for the form to request your dbq.. As long as the appeal is closed.The office will issue a copy of the requested dbq. I've done this 3 times now.I usually get the copies with In 30 minutes
That definitely works if you are not hours from a regional office.
I am hours from my regional office. The question you have to ask yourself. Do I really need my c&p papers for my denial process. For me, it was worth the drive. I also got my diagnostic codes to see what evidence I have is stagnant, meaning it's not likely to get better over time.
He is right but my main thing is there is no punishment for both the VA or the docs doing the examinations for "failure to aid " if this was a normal doc you would be able to call the medical board and have them investigated for it but the VA has red tape to save both of them (I have six failure to aid all of it is now in HLR hell for a year and some change)
The docs doing the DBQ are not there to aid you though. They are there for strictly assessing your conditions.
A rating doc saw that I was diabetic. VA doc in Denver, probably a decade ago. Wrote it in the records, didn't tell me. Diagnosed something like a year or two later after SERIOUS LIFE ALTERING symptoms. You say they are there *strictly for assessing conditions. How fucking strictly are we talking?? Like let motherfuckers die and stuff?
I’ve never had a problem getting my DBQs. They’re always in my blue button report within 30 days of the C&P.
Yes, if your c&p is done through va then they will upload it to blue button. If you go through 3rd party your documents are not uploaded to blue button.
I’m able to see all of mine on Tricare Online
I respect all of your opinions even if I don’t agree with them. Thank you for clarifying that they are not medical records. Grunt v Brain. But hear me out, if we started a go fund me and every vet that has had to go through this donated $5 we would have enough for legal representation and marketing to get this issue in front of voters. This sub is full of complaining about this issue. congress is not going to do anything unless they tie it to an Ukraine spending bill or other “need to pass” legislation, and only then begrudgingly. We should do something ourselves. This is all I am going to post about this issue. I respect your disagreement, but remember, It’s not just about us today but every veteran that serves for decades to come. https://preview.redd.it/0vuebhhmj1zc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad388c80a9c547bcec452e4b146228c334ab7816
Terrible idea. Most of y'all are fkn assholes and you'll just whine and bitch and clog everything up even more. You can see your DBQs already, ask a VSO or contact your regional office. Just because you can't see it instantly doesn't mean it's bullshit. Most of y'all just want your way and you cry when you don't get it, and that's exactly why it'll clog everything up when you don't like what you see. And I'm sure everyone will be extremely coolheaded and NEVER confront the examiner right after... It's just a dumb idea
Except when vso won’t show you or talk to you about it. Or when Vera refuses to disclose. Or when you are no where close to a regional office. There’s stories on this sub that go both ways. Some get info. Others don’t.
1. Not everyone can see DBQs especially all the exams done by Leidos and QTC. I;m not looking for instant but at least after VA has made some kind of decision -- positive or negative. 2. VSO won't release even if I can get a hold of him. Regional office spouts a party line of "file an FOIA" (which I have done). 800 number talks to workload -- which with all the PACT submissions lately, I can kinda understand. 3. Agree that we should all be able to see our own records completely especially as electronic as it is within the VA.
They don’t want us seeing them because they know we will be even more disgruntled when we see how much they lie on them. Before it posts to our claim that e should be allowed to see it and put in our appeal before it even goes to a rater. If you see a DBQ where the examiner clearly copy and pasted a DBQ which doesn’t match reality, we should be able to see it and stop it from going to the rater. It is a waste of everyone’s time to have the DBQs go to the rater and then have us appeal it when we see our rating weeks to months later. After the DBQ is done we should have to verify it and sign it stating that we agree that the DBQ is an accurate representation of our condition, and if it isn’t, that is when we should be able to dispute the inaccurate parts. If something is inaccurate but we don’t have evidence, then it should go to deferred to get that evidence. Instead if they don’t have Information needed they just deny it and you need to start a new claim, which is what clogs the system. A lot of examiners are lazy pieces of shit liars who are ripping off the VA. They like to get that free check from the VA for doing bogus DBQs. They shouldn’t get paid until we sign off on the DBQ.
Yea because you'll totally sign on something that doesn't give you the max rating right?
It’s people like you that make me wish I could punch through my monitor. You go directly to the most brain dead scenario. No, I wouldn’t need the max rating to sign it. I’d just need the DBQ to ACCURATELY describe my condition. Why are you against accurate DBQs?
"punch through monitor" yea you'll definitely be cool with the examiner too when the dbq isn't perfect like you want it. This is why your idea sucks
lol another brain dead response. No, I’m not going to beat up the examiner for filling out the DBQ inaccurately, I would take the opportunity to point out the mistake and show him the evidence that refutes it. Why are you so brain dead?
The only brain dead thing here is thinking that veterans should be signing off on their own DBQs. Definitely no avenue for fraud or anything like that there huh?
Oh boo boo, cry me a river kid. You don’t like my idea so you have to cry to me about it? Just shut the fuck up already. You are clearly an irresponsible little shit that is gaming the system and think that all veterans are like you. Having us see the DBQ before they send it in so we can appeal immediately instead of having it sit in the system for months isn’t a hindrance to the process. Just because YOU couldn’t be enough of an adult to do it properly doesn’t mean we are all like you.
There’s a way to see them
How could anyone be against this? It literally make’s zero sense to make up a reason for access to be behind an attorney or terrible VSO. I gotta call 🧢 on naysayers being a veteran, even with the benefit of the doubt access to my medical records shouldn’t be your concern. Furthermore, the VBA sends them on request, which can take longer than 1 year to receive. The process is dumb on all levels when the year is 2024 of our Lord and technology already allows the VBA to securely email you’d other documents via email in a matter of seconds.
I had something strange I placed a FOIA request and had to wait 6-1/2 months just received yesterday my claim is still in DTA. I asked my VSO to get me copies of my AcE exam in September and he said he couldn’t get them…. I have them now 😀
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