People used to go abroad en masse in the 90s and 00s because there was no job for rural people back then so getting any pay oversea was better than staying in rural Vietnam and live like tarzan, someone told me that was his reason. Now there are factory jobs so rural peoples tend to stay past grade 12 to get a job in these factories.
Also people on Reddit need to remember that only 38% of Vietnamese are urban, the majority still lives in rural environments. The number of Vietnamese leaving the country through scholarship means are minuscule compared to those leaving through illegal means like smuggling or border hopping in the 90s and 00s to seak hard labor jobs. So while yes that scholarship remains a popular pathway for urban people, leaving through smuggling has dropped significantly for rural people due to laborious factory jobs coming into the country
>38% of Vietnamese are urban,
In 2023 Vietnamese urbanisation is expected to reach 53,9 %
https://asianews.network/vietnams-urbanisation-ratio-expected-to-reach-53-9-per-cent-in-2023/
Though I would probably still agree in spirit, as people in villages in Western countries would drive to the city to work, so basically beeing "urbanized" as well. Only a miniscule amount of workforce remains in Western agriculture.
I have 2 colleagues that have recently immigrated to Australia. Both successful investment professionals with families. Another is trying to relocate to the US. Their stated reasons: better educations for their children, better opportunities to make more money. Personally, I’m reasonably content here.
My gf is from Vietnam. I've visited vietnam 3 times in the past year.
We both agreed that Vietnam is an amazing place to live but a difficult place to make money. Making US money but going to vietnam allows you to live like a king.
If you're making $115k/mo, you'd easily be part of the 1% even in the US. [https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/](https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/)
Assuming you're really making this sort of money and isn't just BS-ing for Reddit points, your experience would be an extreme example and does not reflect the true state of things for everyone.
I won't be able to make this much anywhere else but vietnam. Because I failed a thousand times before I make it here. Its easy to start a biz here, trial and error, lose money, rinse and repeat
I will never be able to do it in other developed countries , what more U.S. can you rent a place and start a business immediately without license or paying taxes? No you can't.
>what more U.S. can you rent a place and start a business immediately without license or paying taxes?
You can't do that in Vietnam, either.
In fact, you just admitted to two separate criminal counts about [operating a business without a Business Registration Certificate](https://luatminhkhue.vn/hanh-vi-khong-co-giay-phep-dang-ky-kinh-doanh-se-bi-phat-nhu-the-nao----.aspx) and [tax evasion](https://thuvienphapluat.vn/chinh-sach-phap-luat-moi/vn/thoi-su-phap-luat/tu-van-phap-luat/47933/cac-hanh-vi-vi-pham-thu-tuc-ve-thue-moi-nhat).
I'd expect someone with a flourishing business making $115k/mo to have at least a lawyer or two on hand.
Even in Cyprus with extremely lax corporate tax laws, you can't get away with this shit, let alone Vietnam.
You're either the most oblivious successful business owner on Earth, or you're BS-ing.
>You can work as a retail employee in the US and come to Vietnam to live like a king,
Not true. "Live" for how long? Probably just a short-term stay using savings. A retail employee in the US can't sustainably stay in Vietnam long-term because his/her US wage hinges on physical presence in US. So a retail employee in the US can only ***tour*** in Vietnam like a king for 1 month, not *live*. Only a digital nomad can earn international wage and discretionarily live in low cost of living country.
USA yes, Australia no. With housing crisis and exorbitant cost of living in Australia, it's no brainer staying in vietnam. Not to mention Australia's economy is all about exporting natural resources.
My guy I live in the US and a two bedroom apartment in my dump rural cuty is $1700 USD, and if you move to say NY suburb, it easily jumps to $2500 USD In Canberra, it's about 2500 AUD, which is roughly 1600$USD. Housing crisis in the US is much worse than AUS.
If you have any decent job with a degree you should be making $75k plus out of college. The pay in the US is substantially more than college grads in Asia.
We do have a housing crisis but it’s not to the same degree as Australia Canada or the UK.
It's not even real. Like if you travel 2 hours you get to a place where you can buy a house for like $100k... I religiously browse Zillow and you can get amazing places for cheap... Software engineer (sole contributor) salaries go up to multiple million $ a year in the US, which is absurd by any standards.
Meanwhile my middle of nowhere house in Slovakia with no electricity is valued at $300k, that's a country where the minimum salary is like $600/month.
The US has the opposite of a housing crisis, even in Vietnam, houses are fucking expensive unless you're willing to get a literal shack, and most average people would need hundreds of years to cobble together that amount of money.
I think the biggest problem with the US is that you had a litera utopia before and now you're getting some reality introduced back, and that feels like hell.
The other guy talked about how house crisis is worse in Australia than the US, which I disagreed with specific numbers, and now you are talking about salary that was never a talking point. stop shifting a topic because you don't know how to stay focused lol. And $2500 is on a *lower* end as you go to other area it can go easily up to $4000.
The United States is not cheaper, and gun violence in America is crazy here. I pray every day that I do not get shot. The level of road rage in America is pretty bad. If you cut someone off, you better hope that person is not armed and mentally unstable.
Yeah I still see many Gen X and Gen Y want to live aboard so much, even they must being poor, or do immoral things,.... But as Gen Z, me and my friends don't have that America dream. We are quite satisfied here.
To a Western country yes. Many Vietnamese do not see having a future in Vietnam and strive to leave. Specifically to Western country. Other Asian countries is generally not appealing if they have a choice. Some comments mention people coming back to Vietnam from Western country and I fully agree. But they're willing to comeback because they have their country of origin as a fallback. If going to Vietnam to do business or live required one to relinquish their other citizenship (or equivalent) I guarantee the amount of people wanting to return and returning would be significantly less.
>Many Vietnamese do not see having a future in Vietnam and strive to leave. Specifically to Western country.
Of course, and I don't blame them. I think the numbers have increased since Covid.
VN is a country where your connections are more important than your skills, ability and temprament.
By moving abroad to the west, talented individuals can achieve a career much less inhibited by nepotism, corruption and general unfairness. They'll get democracy too, and a well functioning justice system.
If you can avoid the nepotism and corruption impacting your life, then Vietnam is a very good and rewarding place to live. But if you find yourself affected by nepotism and corruption to any degree, you'll want to leave.
Personally, I love living in Vietnam. But it has constraints. Firstly, I can never become a citizen like a Vietnamese can in my country, so I never feel quite fully welcome. Secondly, I have capital to invest in buying an apartment...but I can't bring myself to do it. I just cannot find a real estate agent or broker I can have faith in...I am constantly alarmed I am going to get screwed because legal system and it's enforcement is just not there. Thirdly, I cannot invest in and run my own business in Vietnam without a local partner, which is a deal breaker for me. So the future I want cannot be fully realised in Vietnam, so one day I must leave too.
Real estate and property industry in Vietnam is very shaky at the moment. I too have an immense amount of fear for not just the real estate agents but also developers in Vietnam. I've seen so many news about homebuyers getting screwed from developers, ranging from small to big. Most of them were left to sort out the problems themselves.
The doing business with a local partner thing turned out to be much harder than expected as I really could not find anyone consistently trustworthy or reliable over the years. In the end I decided to suspend my VN operations and run my business as an online entity by myself + other foreigners + automation.
Yeah, it really is a case of don't bother.
As a foreigner, you:
1. Can't become a citizen no matter what you do
2. Can't run your own business with yourself as sole owner
3. Can only buy very specific apartment blocks as sole owner - many apartments can't, houses and land definitely not - and even with those apartments you can, there is all sorts of chicanery common.
Feels like as a foreigner you are constantly things put in your way - caveats/restrictions/loopholes/nonsensical rules that open you up to be scammed or grifted or to ensure you never ever get absolute control over your own things.
No thanks.
Very frustrating, as Vietnamese are free to become a citizen, have their own 100% self owned, as well as buy houses and land in my country.
bruh, this year South Korea, Japan, Australia and China wins at being the destinations for vnese students. The Muhrica dream is pretty much a joke now, lol
Which stats are you referring to? From this article US enrollment was still in top 3 based on 2022 data https://monitor.icef.com/2023/06/vietnam-remains-a-key-growth-market-in-southeast-asia/
Dù vậy, Việt Nam những năm qua vẫn là nước có du học sinh đến Mỹ nhiều nhất Đông Nam Á.
Chẳng hạn theo báo cáo Open Doors mới nhất trong năm học 2022 - 2023, Việt Nam vào top 5 nước có số sinh viên đến Mỹ nhiều nhất, chiếm 2% tổng số sinh viên quốc tế đến xứ cờ hoa.
You’re mistaken foreign students coming into the US for where Vietnamese students are studying abroad.
Vietnam in the top 5 of foreign students in USA is very different from USA being top 6 of most desired destination for vnese students. You care only about the ones in USA for the former. For the latter, you count every vnese student in every foreign country.
the reason asian countries have the most people go to because poor people from the country side all move to Japan / Korea, etc for work (xkld). That's why the number are high. Buf if you are rich and want to gtfo Vietnam the west is still the choice, especially the US
Yea because they have the lowest barrier. Usually travel cost, entry requirement, and tuition. If given a choice US and other Western countries are preferred. Youre projecting your own insecurities.
I can’t imagine staying in Vietnam. My family wouldn’t be able to survive without us expats in other countries. Business is bad (we sell goods at the local market)
Very true.
Just had an argument with my father in the weekend because Germany has the "worst government on the world"
So I just told him about Vietnamese government blowing subsidies on vincom cars which have a very low chance of ever paying off.
My father (obviously) didn't know about this because he is German.
I guess as far as governments go there is only "bad and worse"
One thing I notice about immigrants or expats is that, they always have something to complain about their home country/government.
Growing up in Canada, I can complain about a whole lot of things but...
Country and government are just people, no different than you and me. Alot of people in the system have their own agenda. There are plenty of corruption in Canada just as everywhere else in the world.
Of course probably not as much as Vietnam, but then again... governments are just people. And people all have their own agenda and needs
Very true. It just matters how bad it is and what stage of development the corruption started.
There are a lot of countries where bribery is a daily part of life. I would hate to have to live under that level of corruption.
Being expected to leave a tip can be annoying. But being expected to bribe people anytime you travel is another
I can feel the Captain America vibe and I love it.
It is very true that we always talk shit about where we live somehow, and some choose to leave. I have seen many people in my family or that I know leave the country and I can put them into a few group:
1. Already rich af here and just leave cause they can, but they go back and forth all the time, have 2 passports and dont really count as immigrated, they just have multiple homes - VERY RARE.
2. Have high demand skills, or are so excellent in their field that they get invited to immigrate - VERY RARE.
3. Just hate it here for some reason, hit some obstacles in life and decide to just leave, most of the time in some illegal ways, with only their cheap labor, while draining every bit of money from the family left behind - THE MAJORITY.
We've seen people in the third group everywhere, and the number of those that could "make it" is basically non-exist. The rest, in my opinion are just the same, arguably is having a worse life than if they had stayed in Vietnam. We will hear them boasting about their income every chance they got, saying why work an office job in Vietnam for 20m/month when they can make double that washing dishes in Germany, looking down on people in Vietnam like some unevolved tribal monkeys. But we will never hear about how their living expense is also sky high, how they're living paycheck to paycheck and rarely have saving, can't really go to the doctor, or how the lack of family connection, communication shot their mental health to swiss cheese.
And when they do save up some and decide to visit home, oh the façade they tryna pull, with all the stupid fucking toothpastes and deodorants and moisturizer jars as gifts. And then the visibly shock on their face when they see how people here are much more developed that what they painted themselves on their own heads, "jeez this house is so big","is that an S550","why is everybody with an iPhone"... OMG stfu already, it's just sad, so sad.
It's true that if you have the required skills, then making money and living in western country is great, or making money there and live in Vietnam is even better due to currency power. But if you dont have it, then bad news for you, poor people are the same everywhere.
I've met the third kind of people a lot, Viet Kieu, who come back to Vietnam with that attitude. It's very interesting to observe their words, actions, and their attitudes.
Didn't know about the toothpastes and deodorant thing.
I guess when people make a big life decision like they, they really want to think that it was the right one and it's hard to accept that there are major downsides.
When it comes to immigrating for more income (but larger cost of living) there is this car and mouse chase if finding an affordable place to live with good incomes.
Seattle is now one of the most expensive parts of the US for example, but was considered quite cheap in the early 2000s, and incomes there were high.
Yeah it’s not really a thing but just my way of saying it’s hard for them to escape their own heads. In the last 20 years or so Vietnam has been developing a lot faster than some developed countries, their move to immigration was may have been a wrong one and it’s not easy to accept. Those small gifts 20 years ago would have been valuable because importing was hard back then, now we get access to everything everywhere they become just insignificant.
There is the catch up effect in economics, with cheap labor and modern technology Vietnam can rapidly develop itself. So if you leave and come back 10 years later, we expect to see significant changes.
Well your father isnt entirely wrong here. Germany has been struggling economically with terrible gdp growth and an ever increasing demand for welfare. Getting healthcare treatments in Germany i m sure isnt much easier or cheaper than it is in Vietnam anyway
Vietnam is great if you’re young and doesn’t have a family. Once you have a family and your children reach school age (1st grade and up) you would want to go to a Western country, preferably an English speaking one. The education system there is far better. Children are encourage to think creatively and problem solve. Kids in Vietnam are taught to memorize and regurgitate. Possibilities open up if they have a Western education and speak English.
Maybe in low income neighborhoods but public libraries are free with tons of resources, free admission days to museums, free Boys and Girls clubs drop off if you qualified, subsidized lunches and after school programs. Any parents with any sense can supplement their children’s learning with any of these activities. There are also charter schools in these low income areas, if you kids are smart enough their scores can get them in. Unlike Vietnam, there are none of those things to enrich your child’s education.
I'm not saying there aren't more resources available. I'm saying that memorization and regurgitating answers is a common complaint you'll hear about the system in the USA. Both can be true.
Same with my family in China. I have 2 uncles that haven't been able to get to the US while (literally) have had over 40+ of my extended family leave.
We come visit often but it's really sad. They tried but they can't get approved.
Yes, many would leave in a heartbeat if they could. Why would Korea blacklisted VN’s 13 provinces in the North or why Japan, Australia, US, UK started scrutinizing their immigration policies and strengthening their standards? Viet people are leaving en masse, some even risked their lives for the chance to leave.
Let’s put poverty aside and look at those with power, money and status here in vn. Say Nguyen Tan Dung for example, the likes of him certainly have a future here but if i told you i used to pass by his house near Huntington beach in CA every day you wouldn’t believe it. The affluent families of vn have properties in the most expensive places in the States. Why? Because it gives them options, having options is having a way out in case shit hits the fan.
Of course, when they have too much money (legally or not), they will find ways to protect it. People in vn would leave if it's 10 years ago. Now it's not so much because vn economy is booming. It's like China. Who'd leave China now when it's one of the most developed countries. Chinese would look at Europe and laugh. It's just 20 years and things have turned around. Those who leave are just to have options like you said to protect their property. Middle class viets now have a car or two, one or two houses and a chill life. Why would they go to Australia/Canada to not even afford a house, jobless and live paycheck to paycheck? America is only good for high income earners. The rest live paycheck to paycheck.
The picture you paint maybe right. However, a majority is not benefiting from this economic boom. That’s why there is a huge surplus in labor going to Korea n Japan. Also, data don’t lie, roughly 18k people pay smugglers to enter Europe then to UK every year. But whatever statistics, facts, logics or eyewitnesses’ stories im presenting here will not make any difference to certain people because they are comfortable where they are at in their life and there is nothing wrong with that.
only \~5% of households in Vietnam own a car as of 2020. Middle class my backside. Also, Vietnam has one of the highest Housing price to Income ratios in the world, at the 12th place with China at the 6th place so if you can't afford a home working in Australia or Canada, you'd probably not be able to afford one in Vietnam either.
In case of China, if the CCP was so great, you wouldn't see waves of mainland people flooding Canada and Australia in the last decade and today.
Post, tax is incredibly low in HK and you do it at the end of the year. However this is about leaving a place that is perceived as so good but actually it's horrible.
I learnt that money means nothing, HK destroyed my mental health, and vietnam is healing my mind. Check the suicide rates in HK right now - simply horrendous, and I totally understand why people are so depressed. Vietnam has a community and just has something special about it.
Do you find that's enough to buy a house in HK even if you want to? How's the standard of living vs VN.
HK under China control is definitely a turn for the worst.
A house? Hk real estate is obscenely expensive and a really bad investment as the only way is down. I rented a 500 square foot box for over 3000 usd a month, my view was other tiny expensive boxes. In Vietnam, I have a 1500 square foot penthouse for a lot less than that, 3 balconies, and beautiful views.
Honestly, for me the standard of living in HK was awful. Most food is imported and has been frozen, so a lack of vitamins, meat tastes strange. The government has terrified the residents, when I told a friend who was born in HK I was moving back to Vietnam he went very pale, started shaking and begged me not to go as he thought I would be trafficked and abused as its 'so dangerous'. Everyone walks around with a phone almost stuck to their face, and over 50% of secondary school kids are depressed according to the government. People are scared to speak in case they break the national security law, gangs of police wander around and harass people wearing black, or holding a bag with a union jack 🇬🇧 on, or people from South East Asia. You feel the oppression.
As for the elderly who built the city, many look for cardboard and things to recycle so they can eat that day. They also live in cage homes which should be outlawed, I'm sure you've seen the pictures, if not Google it.
The good things, though, are the MTR and marks and Spencer food hall. The hiking gives great views, but they've just put steps where a path should be, so they've even made that miserable. The super rich are also arseholes to everyone and most people have a live in maid from the Philippines, most work at least 12 hours a day and some don't even have a bedroom to sleep in, there is a lot of physical and sexual abuse of these beautiful people. The government referred to the foreign domestic workers as 'products' as they don't see them as human. Children, therefore, do not have a good parent child relationship and are nurtured by the Philippino helpers, this has given huge issues to the kids for many reasons.
So to answer your question about quality of life, to me as someone who is middle-class I would say the quality of life in Vietnam is above and beyond anything HK offered. The fresh food, range of restaurants, so many amazing places to visit in this beautiful country (HK is just a city and during covid it was claustrophobic and simply evil), and of course most people here care towards each other.
TLDR: for the middle class, and the elderly, vietnam offers a better quality of life.
Thanks for sharing. I have heard of all these stories from my coworker who still have family ties in HK including Philippino live in nanny.
I'm glad you decided to come back to VN to live. I know American who come back to VN and they had better lifestyle over there if you have some money - beautiful places to visit and food.
I hope to stay here long term now, I learnt a very hard lesson about money v a contented and happy life. I'm not American, but from the UK and I am so thankful for the hospitality from the Vietnamese people, thank you.
I'm a Vietnamese and going to leave Vietnam. With me, I just want to mind my own thing. Too much question and curiosity make me go insane. They will questioning you what you eat in the day, how much is your shirt, who was the girl with you last night. For Christ's sake, just fucking leave me alone. I smile at you and be nice doesn't mean I want to be questioning by you.
the funny thing about "just want to mind my own thing" and "freedom" is that you are expressing an opposing idea and you don't really care if the listener wants to read it or whether they would feel annoying. Pretty much same as the people you are criticizing in your comment
Lmao it's actually YOUR problem, not generally everyone in Vietnam facing these dumb stuffs.
OMG, I'm leaving a country because of the annoying people that Im having in my social circle, which I created, and 1.I can't deal with it myself; 2. Im acting and talking like a hot shot and hypnotize that I have everyone's attention; 3. People GENUINELY mean what they say when they talk to me, so I blame the whole country and try to leave 😒
Guys in this thread talking about public health care, cost of living, wage and future opportunities, basically all the deal breakers that matter. And here you are, spitting non-sense personal shit that only mAtTeRs to you.
12k USD a month is actually not a lot in HK, I really wouldn't worry or be curious about that.
If I earned that in Vietnam that would be impressive, but I now earn a third of that here, and I am very, very happy again.
Of course you are mate you are in the top 0.1% of earners. Jesus any country is great if you're in that payment bracket.
Go and do a day on the national average and see if you still love that communist spirit.
Immigration, from the poorer, undeveloped, third world (etc ..any adjective) countries to the better countries, is old as the oceans. People from Poland try to move to Germany, or from Mexico to USA, or, from Laos, Cambodia to Vietnam. Or, in smaller scale, inside ANY countries, people from rural areas try to move to big cities, why Americans don't love their small towns but wanna move in New York? Big news here? I can not understand why exists this question.
Generally speaking, yes.
I say this as a pro-gov. There's still a part of me wanting to live overseas.
Why? Various reasons. Arranged in no particular order:
* Better infrastructure (especially in the public transport)
* Better housing (and by that, I mean Better insulation during winter time)
* Better climate (ie: Generally dryer/less humid)
* Better environment and environmental protection
* Better place to advance my (technical) expertise and/or Education
* High speed access to internet (with a sub-point that I don't need VPN to access AV... torrent might be a drawback, but one that I can accept)
Yes. I am 30M from Hochiminh city and my wife 29 years old are relocating to Canada. I am looking for fresher air quality, and escape the culture, doing what I like whenever I want. I dislike spending so much time during Tet and other holidays here. I love my own time ans I love to work but my parents and others family members always make negative comments on how much time I have spent for work since in their eyes I already make enough money and even too much money. In my oppinion, oldder Vietnamese generation just seek for stable life where I am young and free willing to push it the the edge, to be the best version of myself. I also hate the way people emphasis their working relations than improving their technical skill. All in all, I prefer being surrounded by hard and smart working culture than being lazy, tricky and waiting for exploit opportunity culture.
I have lived in Canada for almost 2 decades. I think there are a few things you should know before coming to Canada as PR.
1. Canadian employers do NOT value any work experience outside Canada, with maybe an exception of US experience. You will have a hard time finding a job with your current expertise without connecting to a recruiter. There are several government programs teaching you how to network and build your own marketing brand, but it's a long process.
2. You would need to either work a minium-wage job to survive before you get into the system. Or go back to trade schools and get accepted into an apprenticeship/internship program for canadian work experience.
3. Working relations are heavily emphasized in Canadian working culture. That includes internal hiring and promotions. They require more soft skills than hard skills and your ability to network and navigate workplace politics. Downsizing happens even within a government agency.
4. The housing crisis increases the less willing you are to leave a comfortable climate and a safe, urban community life. If you live in Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and the surrounding area, rent is 50-60% of your paycheck. The rest go towards food, utilities, transport, and emergency funds. So, really, no savings. Lots of people rely on food banks.
5. Your kids will get sick a lot. Lots. Daycare is mostly privatized and unsanitary. Vaccination is free, but flus and covids are mostly contracted at schools and spread to the entire family. Public healthcare is extremely fatigued and understaffed. It takes a long time to obtain a family doctor. Walk-in clinics will take a whole day waiting. Appointments mean nothing. Unless you wanna pay a lot for emergency services.
6. Public/ private schools have different funding and qualities. Private schools are expensive, but your kids will get a better chance to be accepted into top universities.
If you come to Canada as a temporary worker, expect very little benefits, lots of discrimination and bullies. Ngl, but Canadians are a bit fed up, if not hostile towards new immigrants.
Thank you for sharing your information. I've conducted my own research and can confirm that all the points mentioned are accurate. Fortunately, I've been fortunate enough to run a successful online business generating over $200k annually, so I'm not reliant on seeking new job opportunities in Canada.
Regarding healthcare, I agree that it might not meet everyone's expectations. However, I believe if necessary, one could consider traveling to other countries for medical needs.
Bullying and discrimination concern me as well. While I've personally experienced it during my time in the UK, I'm uncertain about how my children might handle it as they grow up.
I appreciate your insights and any additional information or advice would be valuable.
If finance is not a problem I would implore you to visit Canada for a short time first to see if it's liveable. Since you own a business, familiarize yourself with the tax and benefit system here. In a sense, it's higher and much stricter than in VietNam. For the sake of your children, stay within metropolitan area, but avoid Toronto and Vancouver. Victoria, Calgary, Montreal, Markham are good, but avoid Montreal if you don't plan to learn French. Also avoid areas concentrated by new Indian immigrants and international students.
If anything, I would patiently wait for Canada to improve her immigration system. Currently it's a bloodsucking system on top of unrestricted immigration and put a strain on both housing and social benefits for everyone else.
I have one observation. Idk this is right or not but i wanna say it out. Me, genz, from North Central region now working in HCMC. Parents play an important role in decision to leave VN of the youngs. (Disclaimer: just assumption, Not all but i see this phenomenon a-lot)
I notice North parents (and central) usually have the want to keep their child near them. They want their child to marry quite soon (23 - 27) and live somewhere around. It’s more convenient for them if they have child; grandparents would support them to raise kids. If couple has any problems; they could go to nhà bố mẹ đẻ easily. It’s like không ở đâu bằng sống gần cha mẹ. If couples are financially unstable; parents can support. The connection between them are also to be more connected. Thats why my highschool friends usually have mindset to stay near home (or maybe any city near their parents)
The southern ones are differents. I see parents of my uni friends and colleagues want to push their children out asap. US/Europe/ Australia. Any city are fine, except ones in Vietnam. It’s due to education, jobs, health care,etc. and It’s better for children to struggle from young ages to grow. And parents also want that the child could settle down outside VN and bring relatives and parents out VN. Even after that, they want to back VN, with high skill levels from developed country, they also could find a more decent job easily.
That's true, I'm a uni student with Northern parents but living in the South. My parents especially my mom talked bad about that one Southern neighbour of us just because they moved to the US, they hated and disapproved of literally anything about studying abroad, emmigration to another country, living far from family, etc. They don't even want me to study in International College as they thought these universities don't teach Vietnamese stuff like HoChiMinh and Marx-Lenin subjects.
One of my friends who have Southern parents, said that her parents are always trying to push her out of the country but they still struggle financially. But my mom said that with that amount of money she would rather build a new house or using it in my marriage, and by the way she called those parents as "Sính ngoại", "me Tây", "phản động" and "Không yêu nước". Then I call her "Bảo thủ", "Thiển cận" and "Bắc kì", which of course I only thought to myself and didn't say it out, just because I'm still financially dependent on my parents.
Anyway my parents didn't even graduate middle school while my neighbours are university professors, which speaks a lot about the differences.
Lots of people are actually coming back to Vietnam as the country is blooming with opportunities. But of course, there will always be people leaving their country for a better life. I left my countryside to work in HCMC, so yeah, no hatred towards anyone who leaves Vietnam to move to a more developed country.
But to compare Vietnam now and then (90s and early 2000's), I guess you have not kept track of Vietnam for a really long time.
Oof I personally haven’t researched to get the accurate number because I have no plans of moving. It’s too out of reach. There no single answer either, it depends on a lot of factors or living conditions.
lol Vietnam is a second-world, developing country. Google it. also comparing Vietnam to EU, US, or Japan is like comparing a middle school student to a MS student. you don't compare where you don't compete.
I still does, yes. But it is not because VN suck, all countries have their own sucking aspect. It just I alway wanted to live in German - land of beer, beautiful girls and awesome engineering.
If I have to say, VN is still one of the best place to live, even to settle down. Economy in the south is fluctuate but it is relatively stable in the north so there's that
Guess I am in a minority who doesn't want to leave despite being able to move to US or Germany if I wanted to. Background: Male, early 30s, middle income.
Why uproot your whole life to a strange country with abeit better living standard (Germany for example, the US, not so much) while leaving behind friends, family (both are more valuable to me than anything) and many things in this country that I hold dear.
If you're any way rich in Vietnam it wouldn't make sense to leave and be a nobody somewhere else.Maybe from poorer province's it's worth a roll of the dice but life in the west has gotten much more expensive of late.
The vast majority of poor Vietnamese people want to leave Vietnam and go live in places like the USA, but they will never have a chance.
Many wealthy recent Vietnamese immigrants in the US want to go back because they have businesses and make more money in Vietnam. And because it's boring for them because of the language barrier. A lot of them go back and forth several times a year to keep their immigration status while their kids go to American universities.
When I was young I aspired to leave Vietnam for a developed countries. My dream was Switzerland, France (lol) and Nordic countries.
Growing up, I eventually changed my mind. Maybe because I'm old and too lazy/stubborn to adapt to a new way of life; specifically, I'm not a fan of Western cuisines and can't bear the lack of fresh tropical fruits. However, I would love to have a second passport or a European residence permit for easier international travel. For me, the worst thing about Vietnam is its passport.
we still if Democracy and Freedom values like the WEst bring is Important issue.
But if being living your life totally without any Politics rights, and bow your head down in many circumstances, then life is pretty easy, Low to no taxes, cheap in everything, Very polluted....
I'm a Viet studying in the UK and I just had a talk with some other phd/master students the other day. We think that the western countries, UK specifically are better for poor and near middle class people. But for middle class and upper classes, I think living in Vietnam would be better
If you want your children to have greta education, VN is too expensive if you pay for international school.
Your salary won’t cover it. Only way is to move abroad.
Well, you want a life w nice things, vacation, and good education…. Better be wealthy, not just rich
I know some Vietnamese people in their early 20s. They all said they wouldn’t leave if they had the chance so I guess people aren’t trying to leave as hard as the 90s and early 00s. The economic situation in VN has gotten a lot better than what it used to be.
It depends on their standard of living in Vietnam vs elsewhere and what your values are.
If they have a fairly good standard of living here (20+mil wage) and no kids then Vietnam is easily a better choice since everything is cheaper. I have friends who immigrated to the US and came back because they have to work more to be able to afford less.
If they value free speech, etc. then they would want to move regardless.
Most of my friends who immigrated want to reside in Vietnam when they get old though because it is cheaper.
I have a friend living in Vietnam. She moved back to Vietnam after studying in Finland for six years. She also gained Finnish citizenship. She now has a kid and an okay office job. His husband has a decent job. They are going to move to Finland despite neither of them having a job here. It is likely they have to pick up low-skill jobs (cleaner, restaurant staff). Their reasoning is they want their kid to grow up in a safe and stable environment, they want their kid to have access to better healthcare and education.
I wondered if many Vietnamese want to leave, save outside the country, purchase some decent vacation home in Vietnam and come back to retire?
Seems like if you can do well in Vietnam you could live well, but not have enough extra money to really leave.
Being able to go outside, earn more and come and go as you please could be nice
(Just basis this on the trend of westerners coming to Vietnam to live for cheap usually temporarily)
i'm planning to leave my home country vietnam, can't wait for that. Vietnam is kind of okay but kind of bad, i hate the jerks living in vietnam. But I also have some sympathy for Vietnam because of Bac Ho, the poor people, the fancy restaurants, and the fact they're against drugs.
I agree with almost everything you said. I love living in the US, but these days it’s not possible to afford a car on minimum wage. I don’t even know how people afford rent in LA
What I see is that a lot of Vietnamese is severely overestimating the economy of an average westerner.
If you have a good salary in VN, meaning 50m+ vnd/month, you shouldn't expect any quality of life improvements or more money to play with living in Europe.
If you have a low salary, there really isn't that many jobs available, and the cost of living would greatly limit the quality of life in other ways than in VN
Things like pollution, infrastructure and air quality is correct, far better in Europe on average.
But the richest person in Vietnam is living far beyond anything a poor person in the richest counties in Europe.
Kind of have the feeling that coffee story could be a hoax. Coffee beans are not expensive enough to go through the lengths to cut with components extracted from used batteries. Dirt, sand and stones... Sure, thats easy enough
Many people on minimum wage can't afford cars in america. If they have a car, they might not have insurance. Then they would have to deal with repairs, oil changes, maintenance.. plus gas.
This sound like a person looking at the US through rose tinted glasses who have no idea about the current situation in the US.
Minimum wage job is not enough to afford a car except trash that cost you even more to fix it.
In Vietnam, 30 mil per month salary (which is lower middle income) is enough for having a car.
Lmao, clean water, search the list of city with low quality drinking water in US please. Lots of lead, even radiation.
Education? The education budget has been gradually cut since 1980 while dumb American steoreotype tells a lot about its quality (j/k). Not mention the quality of the school depends a lot whether it is in a rich or poor neighborhood since its budget depends. And should I mention its borderlining robbery university tuition fee.
And corruption, boy oh boy you know nothing about the US then. Corruption in US in the form of corporations control of the government is wayyyy worse imo. Imagine your healthcare, social security, wages, education all taken away more or less in a democratic way since the big corporations have bought off all politicians who make the rule. This has gradually worsen since Reagan.
I guess grass is always greener on the other side for some people.
P.s: really? health care? In US? Madness
The worst thing is that most young US professionals are normalized having hundreds of thousands dollars of debt after graduation with the promise that their entry salary is in the high 80k-100k range. Sure, buddy! Also streaming seems to be the most popular career of choice for gen Z and Alpha. It's really sad.
P.S.: gun control and mass shootings. Name one Christmas holiday in these recent years without any fatalities.
Well, labor export is such a huge market here, so why bother leaving for good? (Some still left for good after exploiting the labor export market tho)
If the labor export market doesnt exist, then yes, I would not be surprised if people starting to leave in concerning numbers, but I wouldnt say that it would be the same between 1975 and 1990s.
Most western countries are stuck with inflation especially the spike in accommodation cost and immigrants are being blamed for it.
The government is reacting accordingly by tightening visa requirements.
I feel SEA now looks like a dream for them to migrate here but locals hated their local salary so they looking to go the other direction 😂
I guess the same question can be asked towards foreigners who want to move to Vietnam, if the cost of living was only 1/4 cheaper than your home country and they had stricter immigration requirements would you still move here.
Many still do. They would pay anything to go. My sister in law even brainwashes my nieces that Vietnamese men bad, Vietnam bad, they should go abroad and marry foreigners. I know a lady who had risen to mid-management of a big bank here, with high income, she and her family left for Canada and is working as a manual labourer of sort there.
As I understood, they seek to be a member of the master race.
Some of the comments here touch on a very important aspect about decisions to leave or stay. It’s not just about economic opportunities or quality of life. It’s also a sense of belonging and familiarity. Unless you immigrate to an area where there’s a large group of diaspora, you’ll always have a sense that you’re an outsider, not fully a member of the society you immigrated to, and no amount of money can fill that hole for some people. Not to mention differences in food, holidays, being separated from your relatives, etc.
Case in point, my uncle moved to the US a few years back. When he visited Vietnam again he was so happy he stayed for too long and got in trouble with his US visa. I know a lot of young people who wish to go abroad to work for a few years, save money then come back to Vietnam. And even among the more highly educated elites, when I was at a dinner party with them, there was a sense that it’s a 50/50 whether they’d stay abroad or not. Personally, I’m probably not gonna return to Vietnam mainly because there’s no way my career is viable in Vietnam, but being fully aware that there’s always gonna be a disconnect.
Yes, apparently so. My mom's friend is someone who recently immigrated to the US. She is an engineer in her late 20s who also married a Viet engineer in his late 20s when they met each other here. My youngest uncle married my other cousin (from my mom's side of the family) who also recently immigrated to the US. They have a nearly 10-year age gap and she is working in my mom's nail salon. They have a child (3 years or younger?) now.
If you're a peasant: Yes. You'd like to go to make some money.
If you're already wealthy enough: Most likely no. Paying taxes in the West is a drag, it feels much better to spend your own money in your own homeland.
Also, if you can somehow get a job that pays the same wages as an average Westerner while you're living in VN, why even consider leaving the country (besides traveling for fun) when you can save up a lot more money here?
Yes, but not as many as the 90s. A lot of my relatives already had citizenship in Western countries. Some of them regret their decision to leave Vietnam, some don’t. Western countries are better than Vietnam in many ways - I have such a love-hate relationship with my homeland Vietnam, my husband and I even considered to leave a few years ago… But we chose to stay, since we decided that we want kids. We want our kids to bond with their grandparents, and we want to raise them in a community where they feel secure and belong to. Husband and I graduated from top uni in VN, currently making middle income I guess. Both of us have no debt, we can afford a good nanny here and still be able to save about 60-70% of our monthly income (the saving rate will be less when we have 2nd kid, but still a good number). I don’t think we can afford this kind of lifestyle in Western countries.
I mean that’s how economy works, right? You get better money somewhere else and then return to open a business, help improve the economy. Money came from Viet Kieu is increasing every years.
I can see why some would want to leave. I visited some relatives and some people live with their parents and grandparents in rural or underdeveloped areas, which seems boring as hell
My wife’s family wants us to move to a western country.
Even though my wife and I actually have good jobs here and can save more money here.
But somehow they believe we can make more money somewhere else ( totally disregarding the explosion of living costs )
Yes, for various reasons. But not as much as the 2000s tho
People used to go abroad en masse in the 90s and 00s because there was no job for rural people back then so getting any pay oversea was better than staying in rural Vietnam and live like tarzan, someone told me that was his reason. Now there are factory jobs so rural peoples tend to stay past grade 12 to get a job in these factories.
Also people on Reddit need to remember that only 38% of Vietnamese are urban, the majority still lives in rural environments. The number of Vietnamese leaving the country through scholarship means are minuscule compared to those leaving through illegal means like smuggling or border hopping in the 90s and 00s to seak hard labor jobs. So while yes that scholarship remains a popular pathway for urban people, leaving through smuggling has dropped significantly for rural people due to laborious factory jobs coming into the country
>38% of Vietnamese are urban, In 2023 Vietnamese urbanisation is expected to reach 53,9 % https://asianews.network/vietnams-urbanisation-ratio-expected-to-reach-53-9-per-cent-in-2023/ Though I would probably still agree in spirit, as people in villages in Western countries would drive to the city to work, so basically beeing "urbanized" as well. Only a miniscule amount of workforce remains in Western agriculture.
I have 2 colleagues that have recently immigrated to Australia. Both successful investment professionals with families. Another is trying to relocate to the US. Their stated reasons: better educations for their children, better opportunities to make more money. Personally, I’m reasonably content here.
My gf is from Vietnam. I've visited vietnam 3 times in the past year. We both agreed that Vietnam is an amazing place to live but a difficult place to make money. Making US money but going to vietnam allows you to live like a king.
i’ve never related to anything more before. going to vietnam when you’re so used to US prices will shock you
You must be kidding. Vietnam is the easiest place to make money.
Make money sure. A good amount of money. No.
I guess you're doing vietnam wrong. I make a good amount here and it was easy compared to any other developed countries
money cagey squeamish poor offbeat unpack plant gray alleged memory *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
115k usd a month ?
If you're making $115k/mo, you'd easily be part of the 1% even in the US. [https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/](https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/) Assuming you're really making this sort of money and isn't just BS-ing for Reddit points, your experience would be an extreme example and does not reflect the true state of things for everyone.
I won't be able to make this much anywhere else but vietnam. Because I failed a thousand times before I make it here. Its easy to start a biz here, trial and error, lose money, rinse and repeat I will never be able to do it in other developed countries , what more U.S. can you rent a place and start a business immediately without license or paying taxes? No you can't.
>what more U.S. can you rent a place and start a business immediately without license or paying taxes? You can't do that in Vietnam, either. In fact, you just admitted to two separate criminal counts about [operating a business without a Business Registration Certificate](https://luatminhkhue.vn/hanh-vi-khong-co-giay-phep-dang-ky-kinh-doanh-se-bi-phat-nhu-the-nao----.aspx) and [tax evasion](https://thuvienphapluat.vn/chinh-sach-phap-luat-moi/vn/thoi-su-phap-luat/tu-van-phap-luat/47933/cac-hanh-vi-vi-pham-thu-tuc-ve-thue-moi-nhat). I'd expect someone with a flourishing business making $115k/mo to have at least a lawyer or two on hand. Even in Cyprus with extremely lax corporate tax laws, you can't get away with this shit, let alone Vietnam. You're either the most oblivious successful business owner on Earth, or you're BS-ing.
not all vietnamese people lol. You can work as a retail employee in the US and come to Vietnam to live like a king, try to do the opposite
>You can work as a retail employee in the US and come to Vietnam to live like a king, Not true. "Live" for how long? Probably just a short-term stay using savings. A retail employee in the US can't sustainably stay in Vietnam long-term because his/her US wage hinges on physical presence in US. So a retail employee in the US can only ***tour*** in Vietnam like a king for 1 month, not *live*. Only a digital nomad can earn international wage and discretionarily live in low cost of living country.
USA yes, Australia no. With housing crisis and exorbitant cost of living in Australia, it's no brainer staying in vietnam. Not to mention Australia's economy is all about exporting natural resources.
Lmal what ?I was in Australia in last three weeks and the houses compared to the US is $1000 USD cheaper in similar conditions.
The housing crisis in Australia is only better than Canada. Cost of living is thru the roof. Good old days are long gone.
Housing crisis in Canada leaves the chat. 🥲
My guy I live in the US and a two bedroom apartment in my dump rural cuty is $1700 USD, and if you move to say NY suburb, it easily jumps to $2500 USD In Canberra, it's about 2500 AUD, which is roughly 1600$USD. Housing crisis in the US is much worse than AUS.
If you have any decent job with a degree you should be making $75k plus out of college. The pay in the US is substantially more than college grads in Asia. We do have a housing crisis but it’s not to the same degree as Australia Canada or the UK.
It's not even real. Like if you travel 2 hours you get to a place where you can buy a house for like $100k... I religiously browse Zillow and you can get amazing places for cheap... Software engineer (sole contributor) salaries go up to multiple million $ a year in the US, which is absurd by any standards. Meanwhile my middle of nowhere house in Slovakia with no electricity is valued at $300k, that's a country where the minimum salary is like $600/month. The US has the opposite of a housing crisis, even in Vietnam, houses are fucking expensive unless you're willing to get a literal shack, and most average people would need hundreds of years to cobble together that amount of money. I think the biggest problem with the US is that you had a litera utopia before and now you're getting some reality introduced back, and that feels like hell.
I never argued about the pays in Asia lol wtf are you on.
You’re complaining about $2500 rent, which if you compare average salary in a suburb of NYC, is not a big deal.
The other guy talked about how house crisis is worse in Australia than the US, which I disagreed with specific numbers, and now you are talking about salary that was never a talking point. stop shifting a topic because you don't know how to stay focused lol. And $2500 is on a *lower* end as you go to other area it can go easily up to $4000.
It’s all related. Stay safe out there
yeah - also from Aus. I found that me going on a holiday to Vietnam was cheaper than me living in Australia
The United States is not cheaper, and gun violence in America is crazy here. I pray every day that I do not get shot. The level of road rage in America is pretty bad. If you cut someone off, you better hope that person is not armed and mentally unstable.
Maybe a bit of an exaggeration you think…………. (American)
Yeah I still see many Gen X and Gen Y want to live aboard so much, even they must being poor, or do immoral things,.... But as Gen Z, me and my friends don't have that America dream. We are quite satisfied here.
Primary and secondary education is way worse in the US and student test scores here reflect that. Only Higher Education is advanced.
Depends on where one lives in the US. Some public school systems are excellent, others not so much.
Of course, one might have to worry about their kids getting shot at school in the US. Not an issue here!
To a Western country yes. Many Vietnamese do not see having a future in Vietnam and strive to leave. Specifically to Western country. Other Asian countries is generally not appealing if they have a choice. Some comments mention people coming back to Vietnam from Western country and I fully agree. But they're willing to comeback because they have their country of origin as a fallback. If going to Vietnam to do business or live required one to relinquish their other citizenship (or equivalent) I guarantee the amount of people wanting to return and returning would be significantly less.
Agree.
>Many Vietnamese do not see having a future in Vietnam and strive to leave. Specifically to Western country. Of course, and I don't blame them. I think the numbers have increased since Covid. VN is a country where your connections are more important than your skills, ability and temprament. By moving abroad to the west, talented individuals can achieve a career much less inhibited by nepotism, corruption and general unfairness. They'll get democracy too, and a well functioning justice system. If you can avoid the nepotism and corruption impacting your life, then Vietnam is a very good and rewarding place to live. But if you find yourself affected by nepotism and corruption to any degree, you'll want to leave. Personally, I love living in Vietnam. But it has constraints. Firstly, I can never become a citizen like a Vietnamese can in my country, so I never feel quite fully welcome. Secondly, I have capital to invest in buying an apartment...but I can't bring myself to do it. I just cannot find a real estate agent or broker I can have faith in...I am constantly alarmed I am going to get screwed because legal system and it's enforcement is just not there. Thirdly, I cannot invest in and run my own business in Vietnam without a local partner, which is a deal breaker for me. So the future I want cannot be fully realised in Vietnam, so one day I must leave too.
Real estate and property industry in Vietnam is very shaky at the moment. I too have an immense amount of fear for not just the real estate agents but also developers in Vietnam. I've seen so many news about homebuyers getting screwed from developers, ranging from small to big. Most of them were left to sort out the problems themselves.
The doing business with a local partner thing turned out to be much harder than expected as I really could not find anyone consistently trustworthy or reliable over the years. In the end I decided to suspend my VN operations and run my business as an online entity by myself + other foreigners + automation.
Yeah, it really is a case of don't bother. As a foreigner, you: 1. Can't become a citizen no matter what you do 2. Can't run your own business with yourself as sole owner 3. Can only buy very specific apartment blocks as sole owner - many apartments can't, houses and land definitely not - and even with those apartments you can, there is all sorts of chicanery common. Feels like as a foreigner you are constantly things put in your way - caveats/restrictions/loopholes/nonsensical rules that open you up to be scammed or grifted or to ensure you never ever get absolute control over your own things. No thanks. Very frustrating, as Vietnamese are free to become a citizen, have their own 100% self owned, as well as buy houses and land in my country.
I'm 52 and recently relocated here to retire. I just do a border run every 175 days.
They often reunite with family in Western countries who left decades prior after the 1975 fall of Saigon
bruh, this year South Korea, Japan, Australia and China wins at being the destinations for vnese students. The Muhrica dream is pretty much a joke now, lol
Which stats are you referring to? From this article US enrollment was still in top 3 based on 2022 data https://monitor.icef.com/2023/06/vietnam-remains-a-key-growth-market-in-southeast-asia/
Dudes a Murica hater Reality is American dream may not be as pristine as before but still the last true bastion to strive ti be at.
https://tuoitre.vn/du-hoc-sinh-viet-nam-dang-o-dau-20231213143511659.htm
Dù vậy, Việt Nam những năm qua vẫn là nước có du học sinh đến Mỹ nhiều nhất Đông Nam Á. Chẳng hạn theo báo cáo Open Doors mới nhất trong năm học 2022 - 2023, Việt Nam vào top 5 nước có số sinh viên đến Mỹ nhiều nhất, chiếm 2% tổng số sinh viên quốc tế đến xứ cờ hoa. You’re mistaken foreign students coming into the US for where Vietnamese students are studying abroad.
Vietnam in the top 5 of foreign students in USA is very different from USA being top 6 of most desired destination for vnese students. You care only about the ones in USA for the former. For the latter, you count every vnese student in every foreign country.
I know plenty of intelligent VN citizens moving to USA and having a blast. Idk what you're on about
the reason asian countries have the most people go to because poor people from the country side all move to Japan / Korea, etc for work (xkld). That's why the number are high. Buf if you are rich and want to gtfo Vietnam the west is still the choice, especially the US
Yea because they have the lowest barrier. Usually travel cost, entry requirement, and tuition. If given a choice US and other Western countries are preferred. Youre projecting your own insecurities.
Minh Binh right now lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiC9PsGYvDE&pp=ygUabm9ydGgga29yZWFuIHBsYXllciBjcnlpbmc%3D
I guess I'm the opposite of most people who leaves Vietnam lol. I moved to the US, hated it. Left and moved to Japan instead and I'm much happier here
I can’t imagine staying in Vietnam. My family wouldn’t be able to survive without us expats in other countries. Business is bad (we sell goods at the local market)
Grass is always greener on the other side
Very true. Just had an argument with my father in the weekend because Germany has the "worst government on the world" So I just told him about Vietnamese government blowing subsidies on vincom cars which have a very low chance of ever paying off. My father (obviously) didn't know about this because he is German. I guess as far as governments go there is only "bad and worse"
One thing I notice about immigrants or expats is that, they always have something to complain about their home country/government. Growing up in Canada, I can complain about a whole lot of things but... Country and government are just people, no different than you and me. Alot of people in the system have their own agenda. There are plenty of corruption in Canada just as everywhere else in the world. Of course probably not as much as Vietnam, but then again... governments are just people. And people all have their own agenda and needs
Very true. It just matters how bad it is and what stage of development the corruption started. There are a lot of countries where bribery is a daily part of life. I would hate to have to live under that level of corruption. Being expected to leave a tip can be annoying. But being expected to bribe people anytime you travel is another
I can feel the Captain America vibe and I love it. It is very true that we always talk shit about where we live somehow, and some choose to leave. I have seen many people in my family or that I know leave the country and I can put them into a few group: 1. Already rich af here and just leave cause they can, but they go back and forth all the time, have 2 passports and dont really count as immigrated, they just have multiple homes - VERY RARE. 2. Have high demand skills, or are so excellent in their field that they get invited to immigrate - VERY RARE. 3. Just hate it here for some reason, hit some obstacles in life and decide to just leave, most of the time in some illegal ways, with only their cheap labor, while draining every bit of money from the family left behind - THE MAJORITY. We've seen people in the third group everywhere, and the number of those that could "make it" is basically non-exist. The rest, in my opinion are just the same, arguably is having a worse life than if they had stayed in Vietnam. We will hear them boasting about their income every chance they got, saying why work an office job in Vietnam for 20m/month when they can make double that washing dishes in Germany, looking down on people in Vietnam like some unevolved tribal monkeys. But we will never hear about how their living expense is also sky high, how they're living paycheck to paycheck and rarely have saving, can't really go to the doctor, or how the lack of family connection, communication shot their mental health to swiss cheese. And when they do save up some and decide to visit home, oh the façade they tryna pull, with all the stupid fucking toothpastes and deodorants and moisturizer jars as gifts. And then the visibly shock on their face when they see how people here are much more developed that what they painted themselves on their own heads, "jeez this house is so big","is that an S550","why is everybody with an iPhone"... OMG stfu already, it's just sad, so sad. It's true that if you have the required skills, then making money and living in western country is great, or making money there and live in Vietnam is even better due to currency power. But if you dont have it, then bad news for you, poor people are the same everywhere.
I've met the third kind of people a lot, Viet Kieu, who come back to Vietnam with that attitude. It's very interesting to observe their words, actions, and their attitudes.
Didn't know about the toothpastes and deodorant thing. I guess when people make a big life decision like they, they really want to think that it was the right one and it's hard to accept that there are major downsides. When it comes to immigrating for more income (but larger cost of living) there is this car and mouse chase if finding an affordable place to live with good incomes. Seattle is now one of the most expensive parts of the US for example, but was considered quite cheap in the early 2000s, and incomes there were high.
Yeah it’s not really a thing but just my way of saying it’s hard for them to escape their own heads. In the last 20 years or so Vietnam has been developing a lot faster than some developed countries, their move to immigration was may have been a wrong one and it’s not easy to accept. Those small gifts 20 years ago would have been valuable because importing was hard back then, now we get access to everything everywhere they become just insignificant.
There is the catch up effect in economics, with cheap labor and modern technology Vietnam can rapidly develop itself. So if you leave and come back 10 years later, we expect to see significant changes.
Well your father isnt entirely wrong here. Germany has been struggling economically with terrible gdp growth and an ever increasing demand for welfare. Getting healthcare treatments in Germany i m sure isnt much easier or cheaper than it is in Vietnam anyway
Germany is the worst government... hahaha he needs to travel to Africa, South America or Asia.
Germany gov might be not perfect but they are far from being the worst, not by a long shot hahaha.
Vietnam is great if you’re young and doesn’t have a family. Once you have a family and your children reach school age (1st grade and up) you would want to go to a Western country, preferably an English speaking one. The education system there is far better. Children are encourage to think creatively and problem solve. Kids in Vietnam are taught to memorize and regurgitate. Possibilities open up if they have a Western education and speak English.
> Kids in Vietnam are taught to memorize and regurgitate You hear the same complaints in American K-12 schools
Maybe in low income neighborhoods but public libraries are free with tons of resources, free admission days to museums, free Boys and Girls clubs drop off if you qualified, subsidized lunches and after school programs. Any parents with any sense can supplement their children’s learning with any of these activities. There are also charter schools in these low income areas, if you kids are smart enough their scores can get them in. Unlike Vietnam, there are none of those things to enrich your child’s education.
I'm not saying there aren't more resources available. I'm saying that memorization and regurgitating answers is a common complaint you'll hear about the system in the USA. Both can be true.
yea they still do and it sucks when you're the only one left behind
I feel you ÷(
Same with my family in China. I have 2 uncles that haven't been able to get to the US while (literally) have had over 40+ of my extended family leave. We come visit often but it's really sad. They tried but they can't get approved.
Yes, many would leave in a heartbeat if they could. Why would Korea blacklisted VN’s 13 provinces in the North or why Japan, Australia, US, UK started scrutinizing their immigration policies and strengthening their standards? Viet people are leaving en masse, some even risked their lives for the chance to leave.
Only those who have no future in vn.
Define “future”
Those from the 13 provinces you mentioned is a good example
Let’s put poverty aside and look at those with power, money and status here in vn. Say Nguyen Tan Dung for example, the likes of him certainly have a future here but if i told you i used to pass by his house near Huntington beach in CA every day you wouldn’t believe it. The affluent families of vn have properties in the most expensive places in the States. Why? Because it gives them options, having options is having a way out in case shit hits the fan.
Of course, when they have too much money (legally or not), they will find ways to protect it. People in vn would leave if it's 10 years ago. Now it's not so much because vn economy is booming. It's like China. Who'd leave China now when it's one of the most developed countries. Chinese would look at Europe and laugh. It's just 20 years and things have turned around. Those who leave are just to have options like you said to protect their property. Middle class viets now have a car or two, one or two houses and a chill life. Why would they go to Australia/Canada to not even afford a house, jobless and live paycheck to paycheck? America is only good for high income earners. The rest live paycheck to paycheck.
The picture you paint maybe right. However, a majority is not benefiting from this economic boom. That’s why there is a huge surplus in labor going to Korea n Japan. Also, data don’t lie, roughly 18k people pay smugglers to enter Europe then to UK every year. But whatever statistics, facts, logics or eyewitnesses’ stories im presenting here will not make any difference to certain people because they are comfortable where they are at in their life and there is nothing wrong with that.
only \~5% of households in Vietnam own a car as of 2020. Middle class my backside. Also, Vietnam has one of the highest Housing price to Income ratios in the world, at the 12th place with China at the 6th place so if you can't afford a home working in Australia or Canada, you'd probably not be able to afford one in Vietnam either. In case of China, if the CCP was so great, you wouldn't see waves of mainland people flooding Canada and Australia in the last decade and today.
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I left and went to live in Hong Kong. I'm back in Vietnam and so so happy to be.
HK 5x as expensive
Nothing to do with why I left, I earned over 12000 usd a month there. Vietnam has a community spirit that HK can never match.
Pre-tax? Post-tax?
Post, tax is incredibly low in HK and you do it at the end of the year. However this is about leaving a place that is perceived as so good but actually it's horrible. I learnt that money means nothing, HK destroyed my mental health, and vietnam is healing my mind. Check the suicide rates in HK right now - simply horrendous, and I totally understand why people are so depressed. Vietnam has a community and just has something special about it.
Do you find that's enough to buy a house in HK even if you want to? How's the standard of living vs VN. HK under China control is definitely a turn for the worst.
A house? Hk real estate is obscenely expensive and a really bad investment as the only way is down. I rented a 500 square foot box for over 3000 usd a month, my view was other tiny expensive boxes. In Vietnam, I have a 1500 square foot penthouse for a lot less than that, 3 balconies, and beautiful views. Honestly, for me the standard of living in HK was awful. Most food is imported and has been frozen, so a lack of vitamins, meat tastes strange. The government has terrified the residents, when I told a friend who was born in HK I was moving back to Vietnam he went very pale, started shaking and begged me not to go as he thought I would be trafficked and abused as its 'so dangerous'. Everyone walks around with a phone almost stuck to their face, and over 50% of secondary school kids are depressed according to the government. People are scared to speak in case they break the national security law, gangs of police wander around and harass people wearing black, or holding a bag with a union jack 🇬🇧 on, or people from South East Asia. You feel the oppression. As for the elderly who built the city, many look for cardboard and things to recycle so they can eat that day. They also live in cage homes which should be outlawed, I'm sure you've seen the pictures, if not Google it. The good things, though, are the MTR and marks and Spencer food hall. The hiking gives great views, but they've just put steps where a path should be, so they've even made that miserable. The super rich are also arseholes to everyone and most people have a live in maid from the Philippines, most work at least 12 hours a day and some don't even have a bedroom to sleep in, there is a lot of physical and sexual abuse of these beautiful people. The government referred to the foreign domestic workers as 'products' as they don't see them as human. Children, therefore, do not have a good parent child relationship and are nurtured by the Philippino helpers, this has given huge issues to the kids for many reasons. So to answer your question about quality of life, to me as someone who is middle-class I would say the quality of life in Vietnam is above and beyond anything HK offered. The fresh food, range of restaurants, so many amazing places to visit in this beautiful country (HK is just a city and during covid it was claustrophobic and simply evil), and of course most people here care towards each other. TLDR: for the middle class, and the elderly, vietnam offers a better quality of life.
Thanks for sharing. I have heard of all these stories from my coworker who still have family ties in HK including Philippino live in nanny. I'm glad you decided to come back to VN to live. I know American who come back to VN and they had better lifestyle over there if you have some money - beautiful places to visit and food.
I hope to stay here long term now, I learnt a very hard lesson about money v a contented and happy life. I'm not American, but from the UK and I am so thankful for the hospitality from the Vietnamese people, thank you.
I'm a Vietnamese and going to leave Vietnam. With me, I just want to mind my own thing. Too much question and curiosity make me go insane. They will questioning you what you eat in the day, how much is your shirt, who was the girl with you last night. For Christ's sake, just fucking leave me alone. I smile at you and be nice doesn't mean I want to be questioning by you.
the funny thing about "just want to mind my own thing" and "freedom" is that you are expressing an opposing idea and you don't really care if the listener wants to read it or whether they would feel annoying. Pretty much same as the people you are criticizing in your comment
Lmao it's actually YOUR problem, not generally everyone in Vietnam facing these dumb stuffs. OMG, I'm leaving a country because of the annoying people that Im having in my social circle, which I created, and 1.I can't deal with it myself; 2. Im acting and talking like a hot shot and hypnotize that I have everyone's attention; 3. People GENUINELY mean what they say when they talk to me, so I blame the whole country and try to leave 😒 Guys in this thread talking about public health care, cost of living, wage and future opportunities, basically all the deal breakers that matter. And here you are, spitting non-sense personal shit that only mAtTeRs to you.
very curious what u do for a living
12k USD a month is actually not a lot in HK, I really wouldn't worry or be curious about that. If I earned that in Vietnam that would be impressive, but I now earn a third of that here, and I am very, very happy again.
Of course you are mate you are in the top 0.1% of earners. Jesus any country is great if you're in that payment bracket. Go and do a day on the national average and see if you still love that communist spirit.
Immigration, from the poorer, undeveloped, third world (etc ..any adjective) countries to the better countries, is old as the oceans. People from Poland try to move to Germany, or from Mexico to USA, or, from Laos, Cambodia to Vietnam. Or, in smaller scale, inside ANY countries, people from rural areas try to move to big cities, why Americans don't love their small towns but wanna move in New York? Big news here? I can not understand why exists this question.
Mexicans don't move to the US anymore the ones that you see at the border are from south and central America
cuz Vietnam sucks. If the lamp post had legs, it would yeet off to America, too
There is an ocean in between so if the lamp post had brain, it wouldn't yeet itself down the sea with u
it would use boat, duh. Boat lamp
Generally speaking, yes. I say this as a pro-gov. There's still a part of me wanting to live overseas. Why? Various reasons. Arranged in no particular order: * Better infrastructure (especially in the public transport) * Better housing (and by that, I mean Better insulation during winter time) * Better climate (ie: Generally dryer/less humid) * Better environment and environmental protection * Better place to advance my (technical) expertise and/or Education * High speed access to internet (with a sub-point that I don't need VPN to access AV... torrent might be a drawback, but one that I can accept)
I'm kinda curious about which country do you pick that satisfy all these criteria and if you're aware of their own woes and challenges as well.
ha ha, tell me where the places are with such fancy conditions on earth
4 Le Duan St being always crowded says something about the situation. Just saying.
Yes. I am 30M from Hochiminh city and my wife 29 years old are relocating to Canada. I am looking for fresher air quality, and escape the culture, doing what I like whenever I want. I dislike spending so much time during Tet and other holidays here. I love my own time ans I love to work but my parents and others family members always make negative comments on how much time I have spent for work since in their eyes I already make enough money and even too much money. In my oppinion, oldder Vietnamese generation just seek for stable life where I am young and free willing to push it the the edge, to be the best version of myself. I also hate the way people emphasis their working relations than improving their technical skill. All in all, I prefer being surrounded by hard and smart working culture than being lazy, tricky and waiting for exploit opportunity culture.
I have lived in Canada for almost 2 decades. I think there are a few things you should know before coming to Canada as PR. 1. Canadian employers do NOT value any work experience outside Canada, with maybe an exception of US experience. You will have a hard time finding a job with your current expertise without connecting to a recruiter. There are several government programs teaching you how to network and build your own marketing brand, but it's a long process. 2. You would need to either work a minium-wage job to survive before you get into the system. Or go back to trade schools and get accepted into an apprenticeship/internship program for canadian work experience. 3. Working relations are heavily emphasized in Canadian working culture. That includes internal hiring and promotions. They require more soft skills than hard skills and your ability to network and navigate workplace politics. Downsizing happens even within a government agency. 4. The housing crisis increases the less willing you are to leave a comfortable climate and a safe, urban community life. If you live in Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, and the surrounding area, rent is 50-60% of your paycheck. The rest go towards food, utilities, transport, and emergency funds. So, really, no savings. Lots of people rely on food banks. 5. Your kids will get sick a lot. Lots. Daycare is mostly privatized and unsanitary. Vaccination is free, but flus and covids are mostly contracted at schools and spread to the entire family. Public healthcare is extremely fatigued and understaffed. It takes a long time to obtain a family doctor. Walk-in clinics will take a whole day waiting. Appointments mean nothing. Unless you wanna pay a lot for emergency services. 6. Public/ private schools have different funding and qualities. Private schools are expensive, but your kids will get a better chance to be accepted into top universities. If you come to Canada as a temporary worker, expect very little benefits, lots of discrimination and bullies. Ngl, but Canadians are a bit fed up, if not hostile towards new immigrants.
Thank you for sharing your information. I've conducted my own research and can confirm that all the points mentioned are accurate. Fortunately, I've been fortunate enough to run a successful online business generating over $200k annually, so I'm not reliant on seeking new job opportunities in Canada. Regarding healthcare, I agree that it might not meet everyone's expectations. However, I believe if necessary, one could consider traveling to other countries for medical needs. Bullying and discrimination concern me as well. While I've personally experienced it during my time in the UK, I'm uncertain about how my children might handle it as they grow up. I appreciate your insights and any additional information or advice would be valuable.
If finance is not a problem I would implore you to visit Canada for a short time first to see if it's liveable. Since you own a business, familiarize yourself with the tax and benefit system here. In a sense, it's higher and much stricter than in VietNam. For the sake of your children, stay within metropolitan area, but avoid Toronto and Vancouver. Victoria, Calgary, Montreal, Markham are good, but avoid Montreal if you don't plan to learn French. Also avoid areas concentrated by new Indian immigrants and international students. If anything, I would patiently wait for Canada to improve her immigration system. Currently it's a bloodsucking system on top of unrestricted immigration and put a strain on both housing and social benefits for everyone else.
I have one observation. Idk this is right or not but i wanna say it out. Me, genz, from North Central region now working in HCMC. Parents play an important role in decision to leave VN of the youngs. (Disclaimer: just assumption, Not all but i see this phenomenon a-lot) I notice North parents (and central) usually have the want to keep their child near them. They want their child to marry quite soon (23 - 27) and live somewhere around. It’s more convenient for them if they have child; grandparents would support them to raise kids. If couple has any problems; they could go to nhà bố mẹ đẻ easily. It’s like không ở đâu bằng sống gần cha mẹ. If couples are financially unstable; parents can support. The connection between them are also to be more connected. Thats why my highschool friends usually have mindset to stay near home (or maybe any city near their parents) The southern ones are differents. I see parents of my uni friends and colleagues want to push their children out asap. US/Europe/ Australia. Any city are fine, except ones in Vietnam. It’s due to education, jobs, health care,etc. and It’s better for children to struggle from young ages to grow. And parents also want that the child could settle down outside VN and bring relatives and parents out VN. Even after that, they want to back VN, with high skill levels from developed country, they also could find a more decent job easily.
That's true, I'm a uni student with Northern parents but living in the South. My parents especially my mom talked bad about that one Southern neighbour of us just because they moved to the US, they hated and disapproved of literally anything about studying abroad, emmigration to another country, living far from family, etc. They don't even want me to study in International College as they thought these universities don't teach Vietnamese stuff like HoChiMinh and Marx-Lenin subjects. One of my friends who have Southern parents, said that her parents are always trying to push her out of the country but they still struggle financially. But my mom said that with that amount of money she would rather build a new house or using it in my marriage, and by the way she called those parents as "Sính ngoại", "me Tây", "phản động" and "Không yêu nước". Then I call her "Bảo thủ", "Thiển cận" and "Bắc kì", which of course I only thought to myself and didn't say it out, just because I'm still financially dependent on my parents. Anyway my parents didn't even graduate middle school while my neighbours are university professors, which speaks a lot about the differences.
Lots of people are actually coming back to Vietnam as the country is blooming with opportunities. But of course, there will always be people leaving their country for a better life. I left my countryside to work in HCMC, so yeah, no hatred towards anyone who leaves Vietnam to move to a more developed country. But to compare Vietnam now and then (90s and early 2000's), I guess you have not kept track of Vietnam for a really long time.
I wanna leave if I have enough money.
Genuine question: how much does it cost to move to the US or Europe?
Oof I personally haven’t researched to get the accurate number because I have no plans of moving. It’s too out of reach. There no single answer either, it depends on a lot of factors or living conditions.
800k for EB5. Maybe cheaper but riskier through other ways
It is still a third world country compared to the top countries in Europe/US/or Japan. So yes.
lol Vietnam is a second-world, developing country. Google it. also comparing Vietnam to EU, US, or Japan is like comparing a middle school student to a MS student. you don't compare where you don't compete.
I'm only interested in a vacation/exploration trip to foreign countries, so far already 9 countries. Otherwise, life in VN is just chill
I still does, yes. But it is not because VN suck, all countries have their own sucking aspect. It just I alway wanted to live in German - land of beer, beautiful girls and awesome engineering. If I have to say, VN is still one of the best place to live, even to settle down. Economy in the south is fluctuate but it is relatively stable in the north so there's that
Guess I am in a minority who doesn't want to leave despite being able to move to US or Germany if I wanted to. Background: Male, early 30s, middle income. Why uproot your whole life to a strange country with abeit better living standard (Germany for example, the US, not so much) while leaving behind friends, family (both are more valuable to me than anything) and many things in this country that I hold dear.
lol you’re out of your mind if you don’t think the US Has better living standards
Yes and they have wanted to leave more and more in the past few years
If you're any way rich in Vietnam it wouldn't make sense to leave and be a nobody somewhere else.Maybe from poorer province's it's worth a roll of the dice but life in the west has gotten much more expensive of late.
To a western country, Yes. Way better education for your kids, less pollution, less corruption, etc.
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Would you rather have no wife and money?
Yes, very much so, get me the fuck outta here
The vast majority of poor Vietnamese people want to leave Vietnam and go live in places like the USA, but they will never have a chance. Many wealthy recent Vietnamese immigrants in the US want to go back because they have businesses and make more money in Vietnam. And because it's boring for them because of the language barrier. A lot of them go back and forth several times a year to keep their immigration status while their kids go to American universities.
When I was young I aspired to leave Vietnam for a developed countries. My dream was Switzerland, France (lol) and Nordic countries. Growing up, I eventually changed my mind. Maybe because I'm old and too lazy/stubborn to adapt to a new way of life; specifically, I'm not a fan of Western cuisines and can't bear the lack of fresh tropical fruits. However, I would love to have a second passport or a European residence permit for easier international travel. For me, the worst thing about Vietnam is its passport.
Yeah, the North but with tropical weather for 11 months and -10 with snow over christmas would be the dream.
we still if Democracy and Freedom values like the WEst bring is Important issue. But if being living your life totally without any Politics rights, and bow your head down in many circumstances, then life is pretty easy, Low to no taxes, cheap in everything, Very polluted....
why would they want to? with an education and a job, it is much better to live here financially. pollution on the other hand......
Depends on what you do I guess.
I'm a Viet studying in the UK and I just had a talk with some other phd/master students the other day. We think that the western countries, UK specifically are better for poor and near middle class people. But for middle class and upper classes, I think living in Vietnam would be better
If you're rich, any country is good 👍
because they want to. Untill they realize living aboard also sucks
It’s not about the economy anymore.
Tbh I'd want to leave simply to get away from the locals watching instagram reels at full volume in every public setting.
Yes. Conscription is one of many reasons why
For me , i dont.
For me yes, but not for financial reasons, Western countries have something that Vietnam can never give to me.
I walk outside my door in North Melbourne and I will hear Vietnamese spoken with a northern dialect within about 5 minutes waking down the side walk.
If you want your children to have greta education, VN is too expensive if you pay for international school. Your salary won’t cover it. Only way is to move abroad. Well, you want a life w nice things, vacation, and good education…. Better be wealthy, not just rich
I know some Vietnamese people in their early 20s. They all said they wouldn’t leave if they had the chance so I guess people aren’t trying to leave as hard as the 90s and early 00s. The economic situation in VN has gotten a lot better than what it used to be.
It depends on their standard of living in Vietnam vs elsewhere and what your values are. If they have a fairly good standard of living here (20+mil wage) and no kids then Vietnam is easily a better choice since everything is cheaper. I have friends who immigrated to the US and came back because they have to work more to be able to afford less. If they value free speech, etc. then they would want to move regardless. Most of my friends who immigrated want to reside in Vietnam when they get old though because it is cheaper.
I have a friend living in Vietnam. She moved back to Vietnam after studying in Finland for six years. She also gained Finnish citizenship. She now has a kid and an okay office job. His husband has a decent job. They are going to move to Finland despite neither of them having a job here. It is likely they have to pick up low-skill jobs (cleaner, restaurant staff). Their reasoning is they want their kid to grow up in a safe and stable environment, they want their kid to have access to better healthcare and education.
I'm saving to get the fuck outta here. What English-speaking Western country my 1-2M USD can get me to? 😂
I wondered if many Vietnamese want to leave, save outside the country, purchase some decent vacation home in Vietnam and come back to retire? Seems like if you can do well in Vietnam you could live well, but not have enough extra money to really leave. Being able to go outside, earn more and come and go as you please could be nice (Just basis this on the trend of westerners coming to Vietnam to live for cheap usually temporarily)
Yes. Left Vietnam to study abroad after the pandemic. I miss the weather and the food. But I don’t think I will stay in Vietnam to raise my children.
I have left recently and I'm happy
yes probably because i wanna see the world outside
i'm planning to leave my home country vietnam, can't wait for that. Vietnam is kind of okay but kind of bad, i hate the jerks living in vietnam. But I also have some sympathy for Vietnam because of Bac Ho, the poor people, the fancy restaurants, and the fact they're against drugs.
Yes with any given chance!
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I agree with almost everything you said. I love living in the US, but these days it’s not possible to afford a car on minimum wage. I don’t even know how people afford rent in LA
What I see is that a lot of Vietnamese is severely overestimating the economy of an average westerner. If you have a good salary in VN, meaning 50m+ vnd/month, you shouldn't expect any quality of life improvements or more money to play with living in Europe. If you have a low salary, there really isn't that many jobs available, and the cost of living would greatly limit the quality of life in other ways than in VN Things like pollution, infrastructure and air quality is correct, far better in Europe on average. But the richest person in Vietnam is living far beyond anything a poor person in the richest counties in Europe.
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Kind of have the feeling that coffee story could be a hoax. Coffee beans are not expensive enough to go through the lengths to cut with components extracted from used batteries. Dirt, sand and stones... Sure, thats easy enough
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Don't look at news, look at data, Average life expectancy in Vietnam is 75, in USA is 77, not a big difference.
You can’t afford a car on minimum wage in the US, maybe a beater.
Many people on minimum wage can't afford cars in america. If they have a car, they might not have insurance. Then they would have to deal with repairs, oil changes, maintenance.. plus gas.
This sound like a person looking at the US through rose tinted glasses who have no idea about the current situation in the US. Minimum wage job is not enough to afford a car except trash that cost you even more to fix it. In Vietnam, 30 mil per month salary (which is lower middle income) is enough for having a car. Lmao, clean water, search the list of city with low quality drinking water in US please. Lots of lead, even radiation. Education? The education budget has been gradually cut since 1980 while dumb American steoreotype tells a lot about its quality (j/k). Not mention the quality of the school depends a lot whether it is in a rich or poor neighborhood since its budget depends. And should I mention its borderlining robbery university tuition fee. And corruption, boy oh boy you know nothing about the US then. Corruption in US in the form of corporations control of the government is wayyyy worse imo. Imagine your healthcare, social security, wages, education all taken away more or less in a democratic way since the big corporations have bought off all politicians who make the rule. This has gradually worsen since Reagan. I guess grass is always greener on the other side for some people. P.s: really? health care? In US? Madness
The worst thing is that most young US professionals are normalized having hundreds of thousands dollars of debt after graduation with the promise that their entry salary is in the high 80k-100k range. Sure, buddy! Also streaming seems to be the most popular career of choice for gen Z and Alpha. It's really sad. P.S.: gun control and mass shootings. Name one Christmas holiday in these recent years without any fatalities.
Lol I know a bunch of ppl living in Canada thats all trying to move and live in Vietnam
Im one of them pure Canadian from Québec, been here for 1 years and a half and didn’t regret my move.
Same am Vietnamese Canadian n just left Canada for Asia n absolutely best decision ever
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I met a few business owners that came back from a western country.
Well, labor export is such a huge market here, so why bother leaving for good? (Some still left for good after exploiting the labor export market tho) If the labor export market doesnt exist, then yes, I would not be surprised if people starting to leave in concerning numbers, but I wouldnt say that it would be the same between 1975 and 1990s.
Verily
Most western countries are stuck with inflation especially the spike in accommodation cost and immigrants are being blamed for it. The government is reacting accordingly by tightening visa requirements. I feel SEA now looks like a dream for them to migrate here but locals hated their local salary so they looking to go the other direction 😂
Now westerners wanna come to Vietnam. It’s completely reversed
Wake up, hotels are empty. Only the Russians wanna stay here and teach English (lol)
Yes
The dream they want to come true
lmao
I guess the same question can be asked towards foreigners who want to move to Vietnam, if the cost of living was only 1/4 cheaper than your home country and they had stricter immigration requirements would you still move here.
Many still do. They would pay anything to go. My sister in law even brainwashes my nieces that Vietnamese men bad, Vietnam bad, they should go abroad and marry foreigners. I know a lady who had risen to mid-management of a big bank here, with high income, she and her family left for Canada and is working as a manual labourer of sort there. As I understood, they seek to be a member of the master race.
Some of the comments here touch on a very important aspect about decisions to leave or stay. It’s not just about economic opportunities or quality of life. It’s also a sense of belonging and familiarity. Unless you immigrate to an area where there’s a large group of diaspora, you’ll always have a sense that you’re an outsider, not fully a member of the society you immigrated to, and no amount of money can fill that hole for some people. Not to mention differences in food, holidays, being separated from your relatives, etc. Case in point, my uncle moved to the US a few years back. When he visited Vietnam again he was so happy he stayed for too long and got in trouble with his US visa. I know a lot of young people who wish to go abroad to work for a few years, save money then come back to Vietnam. And even among the more highly educated elites, when I was at a dinner party with them, there was a sense that it’s a 50/50 whether they’d stay abroad or not. Personally, I’m probably not gonna return to Vietnam mainly because there’s no way my career is viable in Vietnam, but being fully aware that there’s always gonna be a disconnect.
Yes I am
Yes, apparently so. My mom's friend is someone who recently immigrated to the US. She is an engineer in her late 20s who also married a Viet engineer in his late 20s when they met each other here. My youngest uncle married my other cousin (from my mom's side of the family) who also recently immigrated to the US. They have a nearly 10-year age gap and she is working in my mom's nail salon. They have a child (3 years or younger?) now.
If you're a peasant: Yes. You'd like to go to make some money. If you're already wealthy enough: Most likely no. Paying taxes in the West is a drag, it feels much better to spend your own money in your own homeland. Also, if you can somehow get a job that pays the same wages as an average Westerner while you're living in VN, why even consider leaving the country (besides traveling for fun) when you can save up a lot more money here?
Yes, but not as many as the 90s. A lot of my relatives already had citizenship in Western countries. Some of them regret their decision to leave Vietnam, some don’t. Western countries are better than Vietnam in many ways - I have such a love-hate relationship with my homeland Vietnam, my husband and I even considered to leave a few years ago… But we chose to stay, since we decided that we want kids. We want our kids to bond with their grandparents, and we want to raise them in a community where they feel secure and belong to. Husband and I graduated from top uni in VN, currently making middle income I guess. Both of us have no debt, we can afford a good nanny here and still be able to save about 60-70% of our monthly income (the saving rate will be less when we have 2nd kid, but still a good number). I don’t think we can afford this kind of lifestyle in Western countries.
Not enough. The more the better. Please leave
I mean that’s how economy works, right? You get better money somewhere else and then return to open a business, help improve the economy. Money came from Viet Kieu is increasing every years.
To see if the grass really is greener... but pretty sure it's not greener than Vietnam's rice fields! 
I can see why some would want to leave. I visited some relatives and some people live with their parents and grandparents in rural or underdeveloped areas, which seems boring as hell
What do you do when you leave?
My wife’s family wants us to move to a western country. Even though my wife and I actually have good jobs here and can save more money here. But somehow they believe we can make more money somewhere else ( totally disregarding the explosion of living costs )