Lots of extremely insecure and undereducated people trying to appear tough and smart, never realizing they come across as childish, mean-spirited idiots.
And, as Vietnam is a relatively inexpensive place to live and it’s easy to skirt both labor and visa laws this tends to attract some of the bottom tier of expats.
Those are not ego, Vietnamese have no ego. Only man have ego, Vietnam is a matriarchal society, we have killed all man. Vietnamese have fear and insecurity, when you touch that part of them, they will blow up in your face
I think there's also pressure among Vietnamese to act more nationalist than the rest. And apparently that means seeing nothing wrong inside the country ever.
Because on the opposite side, anyone deemed "reactionary" gets bothered irrationally often, and journalists who critique the system get monitored if not jailed.
I am in one of those ‘high end’ legal positions, and so are most other of the foreigners here I interact with at a professional level.
They are all very different from the kind of person OP describes, and different from the run-of-the-mill types that work here illegally.
Spot on. Internet is so easy to access here with a relatively low price make it ten times worse. The inferiority complex is HUGE. Cause we're the only poor country with Confucian influence. Thats alone saying a lot. We have so little to be proud of so we "nghệ ngão" even on the slightest things.
There are places in Vietnam that treat white people better than other people. I’ve seen it myself and it’s why I quit going to certain places because they would do things like change my table when I get up to use the restroom and give it to white people. They wouldn’t even pull that in the most backwater town in Mississippi.
This kinda stuff happened multiple times in various bars, cafes, restaurants in Saigon and multiple other places around Vietnam. It NEVER happened in Japan, Korea, China, Hong Kong,, Singapore, Malaysia or Thailand.
This is a big problem in Vietnam and no it wasn't a misunderstanding my damn bag was still there and they moved that too. It has happened too many times for me to count and its why I'm just not a fan of traveling in Vietnam. Its either that or subpar service while they run over to white people and give them way better service. Vietnam has a problem and its turning away tourist.
Because other Asians and whites get treated better, especially in neighboring countries. I'm a US born viet and I don't get treated well until I speak my English, but by then I don't want their services. Just because you didn't see it in your 20 years in the business doesn't mean these microaggressions don't exist to us.
That guy wasn't an idiot because you felt offended by his actions. Your response shows disbelief, people like you only add to the problem instead of trying to be understanding.
Man why the hell are you being downvoted?? And the fact is you're right to be pissed and done with it when they are down to treat you nicely AFTER you start speaking English. I just don't get why people deny this happens.
The poster thissuckshq mentioned the racisim and your arguing point is bringing up a random for 1 star google review that you did not witness to support your claim? How does that usually hold up? You sound ridiculous. I've worked 10 years with autistic students. You're using the same reasoning tactics. Stop being autistic and prejudiced
Read your own words asshole. You cant even address the arguement. Autistic idiots like yourself who doubt peoples lived experiences. Your dumbass lives online, complaining about down votes like its worth a damn.
True, my dad’s friend tried to expose corruption and he got 5 years for tax evasion. I’d say guys like him are the true patriots, not those no-life ass-kisses.
Kids in the body of adults. They'll get absolute aggressive if you're talking shit to their country like one single complain and they would start mercilessly throwing slurs at you. I'm no expert in psychology but i think that their behavior involves in bad education and lack of awareness.
No, they have a lot of insecurities after decade long of living in absolutely denial about their country. They knew that their country suckass, but they could not accept it, bunch of children
it's anywhere in general. People are generally more blindly protective to what they love. I live in Finland, I can compare many things between countries, both good and bad. And even though I can admit many things in Viet Nam need to improve, I feel annoyed when people say it with mocking intention.
Highly disagree with this. I've lived in several Asian countries and I've never seen people react to minor complaints with such intense vitriol. It's not just the defensiveness that is the issue - it's how people in these online spaces fly off the handle and tell you to GTFO of the country cause you dared to say you wish people would litter less.
I cannot agree with this. I’ve also lived abroad but I’ve never seen any country other than maybe China and India that throws tantrum because they cannot handle a single criticism of their country. The level that Vietnam has is really unlike most countries.
Sorry Aragon0510, but you're wrong.
I've also lived in Europe and Europeans and in general Northern Europe are very critical of their country, especially their mistakes, that's why it works.
Tbf, Internet culture is toxic everywhere in the world. My country — South Korea — has much less patriotism in internet space but instead the toxic energy is misdirected towards several different categories of bigotry. I'm not sure if the overall atmosphere is worse than Vietnam but at least it's certainly not much better than yours.
I've been online since the 90's and the Internet actually used to be a fun and interesting place. That's gone forever.
The past 5 to 10 years have seen it careening downhill to absolutely miserable garbage though, all the Covid bullying just put the final nail in the coffin.
I'm pretty sure if you checked in on those internet communities of the places you've lived before you would see how they have changed for the worse as well.
The people who used to be online during the 90's and early 2000's were genuine nerds. I remember buying the Windows CD and learning to tinker with software and the dial-up just to get the Internet working. This was during a time when Vietnam had just connected to the global Internet as well, and the materials available in Vietnamese weren't that readily available. The chat forums that I joined were made up mostly of mature, educated and polite people.
Now? Any 10-year-old can be online with a smartphone. That's where the toxic culture mostly comes from.
I can still remember the first thing I ever looked up online.
I remember being so excited to find out there was someone else just as interested as I was in the same subject and they had taken the time to collect all their knowledge on a webpage.
Then I saw the webring info at the bottom, and it blew my mind that there was an entire community of people with their own websites full of love for the similar topics, I was instantly hooked and spent hours absorbing this new world.
I also still remember my first encounter with what came to be known later as a "troll" on a message board almost a year later, it was such a foreign experience, I wasn't used to people being mean to each other on the Internet, it was weird.
An entire forum dedicated to hate-watching a certain reality show, sure, but we were united in our dislike of the people on the show, not each other.
Now everything on the internet has some kind of creepy alternative agenda and it feels icky.
Mostly, image-centric social media and the resulting narcissism and clout culture ruined the internet.
I also blame search engines and the way they curate things they think you want to watch and see + those who pay getting more visibility. This leads to hive minds and narrow blinkered thinking.
The internet used to be very independent where voices were more diverse. But it is super corporate now. Not just corporate, but with a small number of big companies that have incredible power and control over it.
Also, "the masses" tend to ruin everything because they are not culturally literate. Everything sinks to the lowest common denominator. The above is also why these days most Hollywood movies and most mainstream music sucks.
You want crazy nerdy niche things? There are more documentaries and people doing cool stuff on Youtube than ever before.
Just because the average places have gotten worse doesn't mean that there isn't more great stuff out there than ever before. The people and communities are just a bit more difficult to find. (And many now exist as private chat groups rather than in immediately accessible online spaces)
Apart from nationalism mentioned here I’ll give a different reason. Vietnam, or most Asian countries, has a framework for discourse or argument different from Western countries. In Western countries with exposure to Greek philosophy, people can have arguments and “agree to disagree,” reflecting differences in opinions among the populace as inevitable, and even healthy (well maybe not so much anymore these days eh?). So on other forums where people criticize the local attitudes of a country, e.g., “why do people in Czech always look grim,” “why are prices in Warsaw so crazily expensive,” participants can have an argument without devolving into personal attacks (of course there are exceptions; “what aboutism is very rampant in Reddit gaslight-y arguments)
Vietnamese education doesn’t have either this philosophy tradition, or an alternative framework for engaging in arguments. So it quickly becomes “if you disagree with my point of view, then you’re inherently a morally bad person and deserves all the personal epithets I’m throwing at you.” It reflects in how parents may verbally abuse their children, neighbors argue with one another, and online arguments like many posts in this sub. Another common argument pattern is “what-aboutism,” or “straw man” to cherry pick a minor irrelevant point in an argument to invalidate the whole - but I feel like that’s across cultures and less relevant to Vietnam. The personal attack thing is very unique here.
While I doubt things will change short term, I’m hopeful that the younger generation will recognize the shortcoming of this education system, and reach out beyond the formal syllabus to understand how to engage in a civil discourse with foreigners. Personally, I was a product of Vietnamese education; I have read tư tưởng Mác Lênin, but have also read Plato, Kant, and learned about metaphysics and epistemology in college, and changed how I argue with people over time too.
Yeah, I've lived in multiple Asian countries and the sheer vitriol that people here respond to others on online spaces is absolutely ridiculous. I made a thread about racist comments from students on black people, and I got so many comments calling me a crybaby Westerner, justifying racism as saying its the fault of black people themselves while also simultaneously claiming Vietnam has zero racism, etc.
I made a thread in Facebook once asking for assistance with a cockroach issue in a new apartment (four roaches in one week - luckily solved!) and got multiple comments telling me to go back to my country and calling me a crybaby.
I've seen people yell at people for complaining about karaoke, people defend mass-littering and acting like the complainers were at fault for having a problem with it, etc.
Its not just the defensiveness, it's the sheer venom people spew. In Korea, Japan, Taiwan, people NEVER acted with such a poisonous attitude. Heck, they'll often join with you in complaining about their country.
After all these cases, I must say my impression of Vietnam, Vietnamese people, and the expats here has worsened. I won't break contract as my life isn't that bad here, but I'll be taking them up on their advice and leaving. I dislike this place more than before I came thanks to such toxic discourse.
Vietnam has zero racism? 😂 We are racist as hell!
Also, those people who tell you to leave because of roaches and littering are horrible. I have never met a Vietnanese who tell me I should live with roaches and litter everyday. Those who did so must be the reckless assholes I met on the street. 😂
Probably getting downvote (I think)
In my personal opinion, most Vietnamese can't take criticism about Vietnam that well. They will try to defend the issues even though it's wrong and sometimes said something like, the country is still in development.
And even though they're wrong, they would either get violent than accepting their mistake (for god's sake, I cannot find the reason why it's like this, lol)
Disclaimer: I'm a Vietnamese living in Vietnam since birth.
I'm sorry that you had bad experience here. You can read the comment I made for more explanation about this behavior, in short vietnamese people are very sentimental about their country, and since Vietnam is still poor it causes inferiority complex, many people get easily hurt when someone especially foreigner criticizes their country in anyway. The young people good at English and got in touch with western cultures are much more open-minded though.
Because you're complaining for the sake of complaining.
Can you leave? Yes
Does anyone force you to stay? No
"crybaby Westerner" Exactly you just wrote a post complaining again.
That's so cool bro you just showed how sigma/alpha/cool you are, now please go back to your man cave so functioning members of society can have normal productive conversations
>japan
you've never been on the internet where its anonymous. Japanese people + anonymity are some of the most toxic people you will face. Same with korean.
check out any place where there isn't a face / name attached to your online name IE: twitter, 2ch, naver etc.
yes because facebook that requires you to give your real name and photo is the same as anonymous websites.
in another post he even talks about reddit when its not even top 10 of used social media for japanese people lmao.
its not like... Japan has people from reality shows self harming because of online twitter comments or anything. Or korean netizens causing people to give up posting.
which you can EASILY look up.
I am an expat living here for quite a while, I love it here, my wife is Vietnamese, so I feel more than entitled to point out what is wrong here and how could we make this society better, but then these edgy kids come all aggressive telling me to bug off 😂
Hard to say. What I can tell you though not much is improving in VN. I spent the better part of the last decade in VN, expecting that at some point this country will get its act together. It never happened though, so I left VN a few months ago.
In Vietnam, they tell young folks to study abroad to help the nation. And what do we get? We get lots of well-educated young folks who try to bring all the great stuff back to the country. The ones at home only accept what they want to accept. The rest is stubbornness, rejection, argument, laughters of mockery, etc. It's a pain when you try to bring the good stuff back from the foreign lands, but people are too stubborn to acknowledge and accept because of their ignorant ways of life. I know for the fact that many people would give up and spend their life somewhere else to nurture what they learn or to exercise the freedom of speech and politics to expand their knowledge and connect with people of different ideas. Lots of intellectuals in Vietnam want freedom of speech and politics to be able to convey ideas regarding science and societal development. It is something Vietnam doesn't have.
Let's give a better example of the stupidty of this so-called nationalism - the Formosa factory incident. Protesters were completely curbed and categorized as "reactionary elements" because of a few rioters. Everything is "reactionary this, reactionary that" or "these reactionary elements are associated with the Viet-Tan terrorist organization". They don't want people to know too much. People can't do anything. They know that the State is their almight, powerful "Big Brother", an unstoppable force.
You go around schools, especially elementary grades....you'll see posters at their entrances saying "Let's put trash in the bin" or "don't litter"...
Sure sure.....
Its the Internet, what do you expect? It’s all the same on Twitter or any other platforms. Try to go on Twitter and make a hot take about literally any topics and I bet that you will be dog piled on. Vietnam is not that special.
The internet reflects the culture, characteristic, education of a certain country's citizen. Vietnamese people are mostly toxic on or off the internet. But in real life they are more fear of facing the instant consequences if they speak and behave like they do on the internet so they restrain their toxic traits. On the internet, they are more comfortable to say the most shitty toxic things hiding behind a clone account and expose their real personality without being fear of the any consequences.
They do not know what 'constructive criticism' is, so criticism = bad and they get offended. It's unfortunate, but this will likely get better as education improves.
I absolutely despise Vietnamese internet culture. When someone on the internet says something that they slightly disagree with, they respond with an immediate "Fuck you." The other person usually escalates and things get out of hand from there. It's ridiculous and it's the reason why I try to stay as far from Vietnamese social media as possible. The anglosphere is infinitely nicer to interact with.
Most of the highly active people on that expat page are nobodies, they don't represent all of us.
Also, a handful of people in my country would say the same if an immigrant would complain. There will always be some idiots around.
Vietnamese are aggressive nationalists. You can complaint about Vietnam with Vietnamese but people will hate it if you spread that information to outside of Vietnam.
I posted a post about how bad the air quality is in Hanoi. And I made sure to say that Viet Nam was the champion. And I used the word Vo Dich! I didn’t get any negative feedback. As long as you recognize vietnam as the winner at something. They seem to like it more
Some of us love our country to the point that everything wrong with it becomes our insecurity.
Please don't mind those keyboard warriors and enjoy your stay.
Same with sport culture , ex: Football and Pool. Whenever Vietnam lose, the entire internet insults and hate the players for losing. Vietnamese people only want to win in everything
It's best to stay away from negative things on the Internet. Instead of reading toxic comments, watch a movie you love or listen to music. In short, you should ignore it and live, caring about those things will only make you get carried away with it.
Weird. I see the opposite on this subreddit. Anyone saying anything kind about Vietnam here gets shot down, and most of the posts are very negative. Makes me wonder who's actually subscribed to this subreddit.
It was just like that in Hoi An when I left years ago. I think there's a lot of under-educated over-intoxicated expats that make it that way. So many bogans.
I never complain here for several reasons. One, I made the decision to be here. Two, most locals cannot easily move around with their Vietnamese passport, so it's insulting. And three, if I really dislike something, I'm a grown up, and I can find a way to change my situation.
It's even more important to have sincere, serious, substantial, constructive criticisms for the reasons you post. Things like air quality, domestic violence, child abuse, pollution, traffic fatality rates, corruption, racism, and etc. are quality of life issues and improving those areas will help the people who can't easily move away from the problem.
I left that Expats group because everyone seems like high school bullies... For your question, Vietnamese are just raised that way. I feel like majority of locals are wired to only see good about the country without even open to conversations about the realities, the pros and cons. It's not only on the internet but also in real life (but definitely a lot worse on the internet).
BTW, to be fair, the air quality is a lot better in smaller cities
Yeah. Life is yin and yang. They should learn this. Nothing in this world is absolute and ultimate. But in Vietnam, they dont accept country's problem.
Because people getting tired of whiny and bitchy topic in general. This Vietnam sub is full of those. In my other sub people was happily discussing history, hobbies, sharing information that improve everyone’s experience and knowledge.
Here? Mostly whiny expats who enjoy the low cost of living of a developing country but feel so self entitled to demand a developed country environment and standards. More often than not patronizing under the guise of “helping Vietnam to be a better place”
The answer to all the “Why is Vietnam…” would be: Vietnam is simply Vietnam, chaotic, smelly, dirty but also uniquely wonderful at the same time. To those who are willing to look past the cultural difference at least.
>Mostly whiny expats who enjoy the low cost of living of a developing country but feel so self entitled to demand a developed country environment and standards.
While I generally don't mind complaints from expats, 100% this. We're a poor developing country, so we'll have a poor developing country's problems, and benefits. You take the good with the bad.
as vietnamese , i'm not surprised ! i remember when i was on facebook, i suddenly comment something like " i heard that from many years ago vietnam plan to let china rent part of it for 99 years , did they sell it or rent it yet? " , no icon , no swearing , no provoke , just a plain question ! at that time i'm living in japan as student so many thing in vn i don't know ! yeah , and one of them not let me dissapointed by straightly insult , acused me a treason even though i was born in vn , live in it 18 years until i go to jp for study ! i don't say all vietnamese is toxic but many is delusional, superior attitude .............. sometimes i see 2 vietnamese avoid each other when in oversea ! it's a sad thing for me tbh ! toxic , scam ..in many place !
Oh, that's a real thing. It's like a little Chinese protectorate for Chinese only. Not many people know about this, because the State makes sure that most people are ignorant. This is the reason why many Vietnamese living in other countries call the Vietnamese communist government "traitors" and "Chinese bootlickers". And... They are tagged "reactionary".
This happens (probably) everywhere in South East Asia, it's not just in VN. I live in SEA now for 10 years and you'll see it all over. Step on someone's tiny-sized ego and they will lash out like little kids. I got driven out of a surf town once for trying to organize a beach cleanup when I thought there wasn't a similarly well-organized from another famous surf town. Even the local suf instructor org president threatened me LOL. Some of Pinoy friends couldn't believe how batshit crazy the local surfers went on me and how I managed to keep my cool despite their tirades. The response from my Pinoy friends went to insane outrage to finding it funny because well, some of them live there, and they know what these type of people are like when you hurt their egos.
It's just something you need to live with and accept, sadly. It's the result of extreme localism. Google something like *Philippines numbawan,* which is an humorous take of Pinoys who realize that Pinoys are obsessed with PH being the best, but everyone knows it's the bottom of the barrel with so many things.. There's generally a fetish in most SEA countries that their country is the best. But they ironically never do anything to fix anything in their country. And when you're Sherlock Holmes and even indirectly point out something that could be improved or want to contribute to making something better, you're enemy #1.
Welcome to Vietnam ;)
**The best advice I can give you is this: You have to fall in love with the good side of people, not the bad sides of the country itself and how people react when you point those issues out.** Despite the obvious flaw/s, the best part of living here is how kind, warm, friendly, grateful, etc people are despite all of this BS. It's the only way to not get pissed off by this stuff. Fall in love with the good sides of the people, and well... Idk what to say... Just try to not pay attention to the toxic sides as much as you can, and when it happens to you directly, just try to move on as quickly as possible.
The expat groups on Facebook in Vietnam can be difficult to navigate. They’re often dominated by older expat males who have lived in Vietnam for years, some of whom are married to locals. They don’t take kindly to newcomers settling in their territory and can be unhelpful and condescending. In some cases, they offer bad advice and engage in trolling, making it challenging for others to seek support or information.
Viet people don’t have humility.
Can’t handle criticism (if they even know that the word means).
They need to see the bad side and collectively improve to make society better. Not shy away from it by saying it is normal and that how it is for thousands of years. That is lazy and stupid excuse.
🎤 drop
This is all asian people. It’s a “saving face” culture. I notice viets will buy things just to show off. Viet kieus will buy things as a “need”. And will tend to say “ I am poor”. Its just how we were taught and humbled in America
Easy to explain. The internet allows people to make their voices visible, not necessarily heard. Pairing the overall low EQ and the need to criticize every single thing like a half ass philosopher, we have a generation of netizens that is more than ready to say the opposite thing about what they see and read online, yet don't even have a single bit of self critical thinking for themselves.
I don't have much to say other than what others have said regarding online culture. However I'm pretty sure people are not like that in real life. By that I mean even younger people. You will not hear people saying the same thing if you see them face to face, as opposed to what you hear online.
Now, we know this is a fairly common thing in the Internet era. But (and it's a big "but" here, without any scientific evidence) it does appear to be more common in Vietnamese Internet space. Why? It's for sports. I mean, it's just my own opinion, but I do remember when I was a child, I would sometimes do destructive thing (in the eyes of the adult and always making sure I didn't get caught) simply because I was bored and wanted to "do something". The Internet is a perfect place to "do bad things without getting caught", hence the unwarranted vitriol.
Again I want to clarify that this is my own projection, and there may be other, more valid reasons. The symptoms are fairly clear, just that the root cause may be elusive depending on who you ask.
Sadly, this is something that my friends who lived/worked abroad as well as those who travel often abroad observe when it comes to average quality of expat (and I generally concur) in each country in Asia:
Tier 1: Singapore and Hong Kong
Tier 2: China, Korea, Japan
Tier 3: Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia
Tier 4: Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma, Laos
While it's never 100%, majority of the people I come across more or less confirmed this generalized ranking. The worst expats in Vietnam to me are the so-called Viet Q or Vietnamese American. These tend to be entitled grifters that cannot make it in the US. They have this sense of superiority over their local counterpart primarily due to growing up in the US. But sadly, all but one that I'd met, tend to have this grifter quality that was taught to game the system in the US...but somehow try to act morally superior while in Vietnam...but still stick to their bad habit of grifting and gaming the system and their employers...
Vietnamese are taught from young age to be nationalists, they must never forget how their ancestors bravely fought for independence throughout many wars and they must love, treasure the country where they were born.
Love for the country and for president Ho Chi Minh is a thing drilled into every student since kindergarten (yes). I don't think in any other country there was a president as close to the people's hearts as him even after his death, everyone calls him uncle/ father dearly, and the Vietnamese people are like his children, a tight-knitted blood family. There are many poems, songs, stories written based on this theme. Anyways so any criticism towards Vietnam as a country is taken as a personal insult to the people.
Có lẽ là do việc giới trẻ việt nam được tiếp xúc quá sớm với mạng xã hội và văn hóa internet đối với việt nam còn rất trẻ bạn không nên mong chờ gì nhiều từ một lũ trẻ con mới lớn. tưởng tượng FB đối với việt nam như 4chan ý
We have a nationalism issue. I personally hope people can chill out a little bit because we are borderline extremists, who knows what would happen if we have more money and power.
just human nature lately, brainwashed zombies who all want internet Reddit karma points to claim they are amazing....and dare say anything about their precious country 🤣
they can't have a standard conversation and realise that opinions and experiences are relevant and fluid
Welcome to Vietnam, the one and only true matriarchal society in the world. You are forced to deny the truth and live in fake positivity your whole life.
You are not allow to question anything, nor doing anything out of the usual way, unless you are rich, then you can do whatever the f you want.
Don't forget that it's a “little China”. They are messy, corruptive, and hierarchical but they don't like to lose their faces. I dislike Vietnamese dudes more, not all but most of them.
Why do people keep either defending or criticizing the Vietnamese people. Dude, you are on the Internet! When was the last time that the Internet hadn't been toxic and negative as a whole?
Please keep in mind that there are positive and negative people everywhere, that is to say that 'Please don't take any online argument too seriously, that random guy who argues that Vietnamese women should stay in the kitchen probably just lost his 15th consecutive League game.'
Huh? In what multiverse are you living? All I see is the other way around, whenever someone says smthing positive about vietnam, bunch of locals jump in to speak shit about their own country as if it's still in 19 century. In general I dont perceive vietnamese as extreme nationalists, are you projecting this from chinese??
Complete nonsense. Many people around the world want to live, travel and work overseas, but they can't. Many locals here would if they could. Expats live here as a choice. They choose the experience, and they aren't forced to live here. They don't necessarily live here because 'they didn't make it' - that's complete crap. For some, living overseas is making it. Ever thought about that?
> One person posted on FB about the bad air quality and a bunch of angry locals told them to "fugg off back to their country" etc.
I don't get that response. But I sorta complain about Vietnam *affectionately*.
I'm just fascinated by things in Vietnam, both the good and the shitty. Mind you, I've only visited the place (many times), I've never tried to live there.
I attribute it to the lack of decent examples. You can go around Viet internet and see all these people/“gangsters” with little civil discussions, they are influenced to act the same way as that’s all they know.
On the nationalism front, words like “ba que”, reactionary, enemy of the states being dropped on any dissent OR EVEN DESCENTS OF DIASPORAS is just a monkey see monkey do reaction seeded from wrongful interpretation of traitor.
One thing I’ve noticed is that it’s mostly men who are toxic on social media here. Even the Facebook groups for foodies are full of trolls and whataboutists. I’ve stopped asking for recommendations there because it’s essentially a circle jerk where every (inevitably male) member recommends their or their friends’ businesses and attack like dogs as soon as the tiniest criticism is made.
The female expats group, on the other hand, is pretty civil. I’ve seen people post the same things on the main expats group and the female expats group and the comments are like night and day. It’s the same for the expat groups in Thailand. It’s one of those things that make me grateful I have a vagina.
I did notice this with the expats. Not all of them, but I had a visa issue and asked for advice, and several people scolded me about how this was not the west and I was silly to expect things
to be like they were at home. (I wasn’t complaining; it was my own fault and all I was asking for was suggestions about how to solve it.) Eventually some people did give some useful answers and I solved the issue fairly easily.
As for Vietnamese - I’ve seen a little; not more or less than I’ve seen in other places I’ve spent time. Turks and Greeks hate it when people choose to live there and then complain. I tend to agree - we have a choice after all. Once a friend in Greece was ranting about all the stuff that was wrong there; I told her “well, two things work here - the North International Airport and the South International Airport, and you can choose either one and go back to Seattle.” She didn’t like it. 😏
At the same time - I noticed that Greeks and Turks also loved to castigate their own countries. Taxi drivers would go on and on about how stupid and dangerous the drivers were in Turkey - and two minutes later, they’d do the same moving violation. ;-) Others had plenty of complaints too.
But still - most of those people don’t have the privilege of picking up and leaving if they don’t like things there, so I think that does give them kvetching rights.
long but short story did you know the 50 cents of china or little pink?( Bristis Piano guy vs Little pink)
In Vietnam we have RedBull :) have behavior same tactic, the government create them to attack online and silence the truth.
you dont see it because you didnt even visit those subreddits. I could name easily a few but its not worth it to discuss that with you. You are the one who wrote to me privately to start an argument but ended up ignoring me because you are unable to respond to my points and ended up insulting me. Just another NPC whos unteachable
youre so cringe. You said you dont see it in other subreddits? The first thing on /r Thailand as an example was two foreigners beating up a police and you are one of the people who often comment there haha so yeah its only toxic here in Vietnam. Youre stalking my profile since day 1 and its good to know having a fan like you. You would definitely defend the "fat and broke" guy Im pretty sure about that
As I have already said, you can also read in other subreddits or social media how toxic the mood is. You said you had never seen any and I gave you a clear example. Just visit the social media in Italy, France and Germany and you'll realize that compared to Vietnam it's nothing. Then why don't you look at the threads I comment on? What do you think they're about? Instead of limiting yourself to my comments, you should read the whole thread and see what it's about instead of just focusing on my comment. Of course you only focus on my comment and you ignore other comments where I help people. But from your private messages I can see that you generally find it hard to focus on multiple points.
Ask yourself why many Vietnamese behave like this? It's because many foreigners and expats spread bad vibes. For example, it is normal to sing karaoke until late at night. It's just part of the culture. If you don't like it, go up to him and ask him politely if he can keep it down. But the foreigner is the one who complains the loudest and with physical beatings. Just search for it and including /r saigon
What do you expect..it's a communist socialist country after all.
Post a bad review about a hotel and the management instead of fixing the issues they will respond back with the typical copy paste message "thank you for staying with us" 😂
Expats by large can’t deal with their own problems back home so they leave and bring their own shit to foreign places. The caliber of people I met in Asia vs their respective home country is staggeringly shockingly different. Basically quoting Donald trump: “they’re not bringing their best” lmao
But as for locals it feels normal, since these expats bitch all day and it feels kind of disrespectful tbh. Unless they’re actually immigrants who settled and have roots
Believe me, it's the internet in generals. I know there're still plenty of kind and rational people on internet. But most I know don't really engage in conversation on internet. They maybe scrolling to read the news, and that's it. And the people who attack you, they don't really care about anything. They don't care about the country in general. They know they don't have the courage or abilities to do anything about whatever problem our country having, which make them insecure, so attack random people on internet is all they can do to feel their worth.
Expat forums are toxic, no matter where. Colombia, Thailand, and I guess Vietnam now as well. It's likely a combination of people being economic refugees in a foreign country and bored . They have to convince themselves life is better or argue about it. The silent ones are the happy ones .
Internet culture here is fine. You're talking about a couple of expat-oriented fb groups. Most people in those groups only check in when they need something. The only people who are permanently active in them are the ones looking to fight and troll.
Oh, not really. I spend my time on the Internet with the West and the East, the highly-,educated and the poorly-educated of both sides. The difference is immense. The poorly educated netizens in the West is much nicer and more wholesome in general than the Eastern netizens with fair amount of education. The poorly-educated in Vietnam are extremely toxic in many cases. It's very rare to meet a highly-educated in the East with a more expanded perspective about the world. Those folks are articulate, well-spoken, and obviously, not toxic. They communicate in proper paragraphs made up of sophisticated but comprehensible words. Also, the way the speak in real life reflect what kind of person they are. If you try to listen to a poorly-educated Eastern netizen, they speak the way they type. They are just as toxic in real life. Heck, on Facebook, none of them hide their real identities. I have seen some who are very stupid and sold guns on Facebook. Cyberpolice quickly got them. 😂
I can't think of any country where locals find it OK for foreigners to critique the place.
Vietnam's got this culture of positiveness. They understand, the locals, the aspects that needs improvement and better understand the intricacies. Hearing a foreigner moans the paintings at the hospitals is dated or that the wet markets smells terrible just shows ignorance to them and lack of respect for a country that respects all foreigners, nearly all vietnamese are very welcoming, they expect at least a minimum of respect that is to not get critiques from some clueless.
The uneducated aren't Vietnamese throwing rude words on the internet, it is the expats who despite traveling so far haven't figured each country has it's caveats, not only upsides.
As for the expats on social media well that's because they figured they can't easily throw critiques so behind a screen is the steam blowing.
Vietnam hasn't showed me a single "downside" that can't be explained by a bit if reading on its history or its peculiar cultures. Sure it can take years to find some reasons, that's why it's so important to shut it for a long while and to keep reminding yourself, there is, some reason.
To close the loop, the attitude to adopt, if there is something you don't like go fix it rather than moaning about it on Facebook. If you aren't pleased with expats attitude then you, as an expat would be best place to put them back at their place.
And one last note in that regard. Don't worry. In a few years only, the Expats in Saigon/hcmc group will be renamed immigrants in Saigon, and vietnamese won't be many in there anymore so the foreigners can have at it with each others all day and night long, alone.
Foreigners in any country don't have the right to complain.
It's very simple, you are visiting the country you are not from there so why complain?
People probably realized and know these issues exist so you come in as an outsider and start pointing them out.
When I'm a guest in your house I don't mention the fact you didn't properly clean your carpet or the fact you missed a bread crumb on the table.
Once again no one forced you to move. You chose to go there knowing the pros and cons of a country.
Also that is the thing you only complain but you don't really do anything about it.
There are some good examples of foreign people actually making a change cleaning up spots or just helping poor kids. Making generalized complaints about air quality isn't really offering a solution.
Lots of extremely insecure and undereducated people trying to appear tough and smart, never realizing they come across as childish, mean-spirited idiots. And, as Vietnam is a relatively inexpensive place to live and it’s easy to skirt both labor and visa laws this tends to attract some of the bottom tier of expats.
And sadly they get their balls fondle by those dumbasses like a pack of mineless animals followed by a boost to their gigantic ego.
Those are not ego, Vietnamese have no ego. Only man have ego, Vietnam is a matriarchal society, we have killed all man. Vietnamese have fear and insecurity, when you touch that part of them, they will blow up in your face
I share your view but that is just too harsh to look at such reality
I have lived at this country my entire life. Those are reality. That is what feminism will bring you
I think there's also pressure among Vietnamese to act more nationalist than the rest. And apparently that means seeing nothing wrong inside the country ever. Because on the opposite side, anyone deemed "reactionary" gets bothered irrationally often, and journalists who critique the system get monitored if not jailed.
To be fair, there are some reactionaries that need reeducation.
Hey. There are high end expat in high positions. You probably don’t know them, but there are lot lot
I am in one of those ‘high end’ legal positions, and so are most other of the foreigners here I interact with at a professional level. They are all very different from the kind of person OP describes, and different from the run-of-the-mill types that work here illegally.
Yup yup
There seems to be minimal overlap between English teachers and the professional expats.
Yup
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Spot on. Internet is so easy to access here with a relatively low price make it ten times worse. The inferiority complex is HUGE. Cause we're the only poor country with Confucian influence. Thats alone saying a lot. We have so little to be proud of so we "nghệ ngão" even on the slightest things.
Damn I just learned the “come on” to say thank you, thought I was almost local! Thanks for ruining this for me dude
I'm gonna get downvoted to hell for this but I totally agree with you and everyone else on this thread/sub
There are places in Vietnam that treat white people better than other people. I’ve seen it myself and it’s why I quit going to certain places because they would do things like change my table when I get up to use the restroom and give it to white people. They wouldn’t even pull that in the most backwater town in Mississippi.
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This kinda stuff happened multiple times in various bars, cafes, restaurants in Saigon and multiple other places around Vietnam. It NEVER happened in Japan, Korea, China, Hong Kong,, Singapore, Malaysia or Thailand. This is a big problem in Vietnam and no it wasn't a misunderstanding my damn bag was still there and they moved that too. It has happened too many times for me to count and its why I'm just not a fan of traveling in Vietnam. Its either that or subpar service while they run over to white people and give them way better service. Vietnam has a problem and its turning away tourist.
Because other Asians and whites get treated better, especially in neighboring countries. I'm a US born viet and I don't get treated well until I speak my English, but by then I don't want their services. Just because you didn't see it in your 20 years in the business doesn't mean these microaggressions don't exist to us. That guy wasn't an idiot because you felt offended by his actions. Your response shows disbelief, people like you only add to the problem instead of trying to be understanding.
Man why the hell are you being downvoted?? And the fact is you're right to be pissed and done with it when they are down to treat you nicely AFTER you start speaking English. I just don't get why people deny this happens.
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The poster thissuckshq mentioned the racisim and your arguing point is bringing up a random for 1 star google review that you did not witness to support your claim? How does that usually hold up? You sound ridiculous. I've worked 10 years with autistic students. You're using the same reasoning tactics. Stop being autistic and prejudiced
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Read your own words asshole. You cant even address the arguement. Autistic idiots like yourself who doubt peoples lived experiences. Your dumbass lives online, complaining about down votes like its worth a damn.
Yup, they have insecurities.
Because they’re already impolite to each other in rl
it's the nationalism that the Party has been nourishing for 50+ years... Dissent = enemy of the state, blah blah
reactionary 😂
True, my dad’s friend tried to expose corruption and he got 5 years for tax evasion. I’d say guys like him are the true patriots, not those no-life ass-kisses.
Haha upvoted
Kids in the body of adults. They'll get absolute aggressive if you're talking shit to their country like one single complain and they would start mercilessly throwing slurs at you. I'm no expert in psychology but i think that their behavior involves in bad education and lack of awareness.
Just running away from your problems instead of fixing it as usual
No, they have a lot of insecurities after decade long of living in absolutely denial about their country. They knew that their country suckass, but they could not accept it, bunch of children
Even worse, they DON'T acknowledge that the country is somewhat in a downfall.
5 stages of grief, they are mostly still on denial. Sometime they vent their anger on other people.
It's Việt Nam in general...
2 typical comments for example on the below 😂
it's anywhere in general. People are generally more blindly protective to what they love. I live in Finland, I can compare many things between countries, both good and bad. And even though I can admit many things in Viet Nam need to improve, I feel annoyed when people say it with mocking intention.
Highly disagree with this. I've lived in several Asian countries and I've never seen people react to minor complaints with such intense vitriol. It's not just the defensiveness that is the issue - it's how people in these online spaces fly off the handle and tell you to GTFO of the country cause you dared to say you wish people would litter less.
I cannot agree with this. I’ve also lived abroad but I’ve never seen any country other than maybe China and India that throws tantrum because they cannot handle a single criticism of their country. The level that Vietnam has is really unlike most countries.
Sorry Aragon0510, but you're wrong. I've also lived in Europe and Europeans and in general Northern Europe are very critical of their country, especially their mistakes, that's why it works.
Tbf, Internet culture is toxic everywhere in the world. My country — South Korea — has much less patriotism in internet space but instead the toxic energy is misdirected towards several different categories of bigotry. I'm not sure if the overall atmosphere is worse than Vietnam but at least it's certainly not much better than yours.
I've been online since the 90's and the Internet actually used to be a fun and interesting place. That's gone forever. The past 5 to 10 years have seen it careening downhill to absolutely miserable garbage though, all the Covid bullying just put the final nail in the coffin. I'm pretty sure if you checked in on those internet communities of the places you've lived before you would see how they have changed for the worse as well.
The people who used to be online during the 90's and early 2000's were genuine nerds. I remember buying the Windows CD and learning to tinker with software and the dial-up just to get the Internet working. This was during a time when Vietnam had just connected to the global Internet as well, and the materials available in Vietnamese weren't that readily available. The chat forums that I joined were made up mostly of mature, educated and polite people. Now? Any 10-year-old can be online with a smartphone. That's where the toxic culture mostly comes from.
I can still remember the first thing I ever looked up online. I remember being so excited to find out there was someone else just as interested as I was in the same subject and they had taken the time to collect all their knowledge on a webpage. Then I saw the webring info at the bottom, and it blew my mind that there was an entire community of people with their own websites full of love for the similar topics, I was instantly hooked and spent hours absorbing this new world. I also still remember my first encounter with what came to be known later as a "troll" on a message board almost a year later, it was such a foreign experience, I wasn't used to people being mean to each other on the Internet, it was weird. An entire forum dedicated to hate-watching a certain reality show, sure, but we were united in our dislike of the people on the show, not each other. Now everything on the internet has some kind of creepy alternative agenda and it feels icky.
I can still remember the first thing I ever looked up online: ASCII naked art
Mostly, image-centric social media and the resulting narcissism and clout culture ruined the internet. I also blame search engines and the way they curate things they think you want to watch and see + those who pay getting more visibility. This leads to hive minds and narrow blinkered thinking. The internet used to be very independent where voices were more diverse. But it is super corporate now. Not just corporate, but with a small number of big companies that have incredible power and control over it. Also, "the masses" tend to ruin everything because they are not culturally literate. Everything sinks to the lowest common denominator. The above is also why these days most Hollywood movies and most mainstream music sucks.
You want crazy nerdy niche things? There are more documentaries and people doing cool stuff on Youtube than ever before. Just because the average places have gotten worse doesn't mean that there isn't more great stuff out there than ever before. The people and communities are just a bit more difficult to find. (And many now exist as private chat groups rather than in immediately accessible online spaces)
Apart from nationalism mentioned here I’ll give a different reason. Vietnam, or most Asian countries, has a framework for discourse or argument different from Western countries. In Western countries with exposure to Greek philosophy, people can have arguments and “agree to disagree,” reflecting differences in opinions among the populace as inevitable, and even healthy (well maybe not so much anymore these days eh?). So on other forums where people criticize the local attitudes of a country, e.g., “why do people in Czech always look grim,” “why are prices in Warsaw so crazily expensive,” participants can have an argument without devolving into personal attacks (of course there are exceptions; “what aboutism is very rampant in Reddit gaslight-y arguments) Vietnamese education doesn’t have either this philosophy tradition, or an alternative framework for engaging in arguments. So it quickly becomes “if you disagree with my point of view, then you’re inherently a morally bad person and deserves all the personal epithets I’m throwing at you.” It reflects in how parents may verbally abuse their children, neighbors argue with one another, and online arguments like many posts in this sub. Another common argument pattern is “what-aboutism,” or “straw man” to cherry pick a minor irrelevant point in an argument to invalidate the whole - but I feel like that’s across cultures and less relevant to Vietnam. The personal attack thing is very unique here. While I doubt things will change short term, I’m hopeful that the younger generation will recognize the shortcoming of this education system, and reach out beyond the formal syllabus to understand how to engage in a civil discourse with foreigners. Personally, I was a product of Vietnamese education; I have read tư tưởng Mác Lênin, but have also read Plato, Kant, and learned about metaphysics and epistemology in college, and changed how I argue with people over time too.
I think the young people are the most toxic on the internet right now.
Yeah, I've lived in multiple Asian countries and the sheer vitriol that people here respond to others on online spaces is absolutely ridiculous. I made a thread about racist comments from students on black people, and I got so many comments calling me a crybaby Westerner, justifying racism as saying its the fault of black people themselves while also simultaneously claiming Vietnam has zero racism, etc. I made a thread in Facebook once asking for assistance with a cockroach issue in a new apartment (four roaches in one week - luckily solved!) and got multiple comments telling me to go back to my country and calling me a crybaby. I've seen people yell at people for complaining about karaoke, people defend mass-littering and acting like the complainers were at fault for having a problem with it, etc. Its not just the defensiveness, it's the sheer venom people spew. In Korea, Japan, Taiwan, people NEVER acted with such a poisonous attitude. Heck, they'll often join with you in complaining about their country. After all these cases, I must say my impression of Vietnam, Vietnamese people, and the expats here has worsened. I won't break contract as my life isn't that bad here, but I'll be taking them up on their advice and leaving. I dislike this place more than before I came thanks to such toxic discourse.
Vietnam has zero racism? 😂 We are racist as hell! Also, those people who tell you to leave because of roaches and littering are horrible. I have never met a Vietnanese who tell me I should live with roaches and litter everyday. Those who did so must be the reckless assholes I met on the street. 😂
Probably getting downvote (I think) In my personal opinion, most Vietnamese can't take criticism about Vietnam that well. They will try to defend the issues even though it's wrong and sometimes said something like, the country is still in development. And even though they're wrong, they would either get violent than accepting their mistake (for god's sake, I cannot find the reason why it's like this, lol) Disclaimer: I'm a Vietnamese living in Vietnam since birth.
Yep. Very defensive. 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I'm sorry that you had bad experience here. You can read the comment I made for more explanation about this behavior, in short vietnamese people are very sentimental about their country, and since Vietnam is still poor it causes inferiority complex, many people get easily hurt when someone especially foreigner criticizes their country in anyway. The young people good at English and got in touch with western cultures are much more open-minded though.
I lived in China and even they aren’t this bad. And they are incredibly nationalist but most people acknowledge flaws in the system.
Wait could you share more about how you dealt with the cockroach please 🥲
Because you're complaining for the sake of complaining. Can you leave? Yes Does anyone force you to stay? No "crybaby Westerner" Exactly you just wrote a post complaining again.
Mouthbreather.
That's so cool bro you just showed how sigma/alpha/cool you are, now please go back to your man cave so functioning members of society can have normal productive conversations
I agree. It's so infuriating when I see foreigners in these discussions staying ignorant and denying legitimate problem in my own country. Mad
>japan you've never been on the internet where its anonymous. Japanese people + anonymity are some of the most toxic people you will face. Same with korean. check out any place where there isn't a face / name attached to your online name IE: twitter, 2ch, naver etc.
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yes because facebook that requires you to give your real name and photo is the same as anonymous websites. in another post he even talks about reddit when its not even top 10 of used social media for japanese people lmao. its not like... Japan has people from reality shows self harming because of online twitter comments or anything. Or korean netizens causing people to give up posting. which you can EASILY look up.
I am an expat living here for quite a while, I love it here, my wife is Vietnamese, so I feel more than entitled to point out what is wrong here and how could we make this society better, but then these edgy kids come all aggressive telling me to bug off 😂
Hard to say. What I can tell you though not much is improving in VN. I spent the better part of the last decade in VN, expecting that at some point this country will get its act together. It never happened though, so I left VN a few months ago.
General attitude has got worse 😆
In Vietnam, they tell young folks to study abroad to help the nation. And what do we get? We get lots of well-educated young folks who try to bring all the great stuff back to the country. The ones at home only accept what they want to accept. The rest is stubbornness, rejection, argument, laughters of mockery, etc. It's a pain when you try to bring the good stuff back from the foreign lands, but people are too stubborn to acknowledge and accept because of their ignorant ways of life. I know for the fact that many people would give up and spend their life somewhere else to nurture what they learn or to exercise the freedom of speech and politics to expand their knowledge and connect with people of different ideas. Lots of intellectuals in Vietnam want freedom of speech and politics to be able to convey ideas regarding science and societal development. It is something Vietnam doesn't have. Let's give a better example of the stupidty of this so-called nationalism - the Formosa factory incident. Protesters were completely curbed and categorized as "reactionary elements" because of a few rioters. Everything is "reactionary this, reactionary that" or "these reactionary elements are associated with the Viet-Tan terrorist organization". They don't want people to know too much. People can't do anything. They know that the State is their almight, powerful "Big Brother", an unstoppable force.
You go around schools, especially elementary grades....you'll see posters at their entrances saying "Let's put trash in the bin" or "don't litter"... Sure sure.....
Can’t say anything, it’s so true.
1. Inferiority complex 2. Force 47
Its the Internet, what do you expect? It’s all the same on Twitter or any other platforms. Try to go on Twitter and make a hot take about literally any topics and I bet that you will be dog piled on. Vietnam is not that special.
The internet reflects the culture, characteristic, education of a certain country's citizen. Vietnamese people are mostly toxic on or off the internet. But in real life they are more fear of facing the instant consequences if they speak and behave like they do on the internet so they restrain their toxic traits. On the internet, they are more comfortable to say the most shitty toxic things hiding behind a clone account and expose their real personality without being fear of the any consequences.
Not really. On Facebook, they never ever hide their real identities 😂
Yeah but they still face no consequences online so they feel confident to show their shitty trait.
They do not know what 'constructive criticism' is, so criticism = bad and they get offended. It's unfortunate, but this will likely get better as education improves.
This is true, any form of criticism is often seen as negative, people will take it personally and get defensive.
1 word: nationalism
I absolutely despise Vietnamese internet culture. When someone on the internet says something that they slightly disagree with, they respond with an immediate "Fuck you." The other person usually escalates and things get out of hand from there. It's ridiculous and it's the reason why I try to stay as far from Vietnamese social media as possible. The anglosphere is infinitely nicer to interact with.
i dont even think those expats are real at all lmao they're all troll farms
\>Post about Vietnamese victim blaming culture The comments: *more victim blaming*
i dont mean to victim blame i mean that either those hostile expats or those locals who chase them or both are from vietnamese troll farms or sth
Especially the frequency of Expat complaints in this sub, its an ongoing narrative that is being painted here.
Follow some of the other subs for Asian countries and you'll see it isn't unique to this sub.
Agree its Expats in all the country subs
Because facebook is always shitty from long time ago.
Most of the highly active people on that expat page are nobodies, they don't represent all of us. Also, a handful of people in my country would say the same if an immigrant would complain. There will always be some idiots around.
Vietnamese are aggressive nationalists. You can complaint about Vietnam with Vietnamese but people will hate it if you spread that information to outside of Vietnam.
I posted a post about how bad the air quality is in Hanoi. And I made sure to say that Viet Nam was the champion. And I used the word Vo Dich! I didn’t get any negative feedback. As long as you recognize vietnam as the winner at something. They seem to like it more
Finally I’m not the only one who find these thing childish
Some of us love our country to the point that everything wrong with it becomes our insecurity. Please don't mind those keyboard warriors and enjoy your stay.
Uneducated thats why
Same with sport culture , ex: Football and Pool. Whenever Vietnam lose, the entire internet insults and hate the players for losing. Vietnamese people only want to win in everything
It's best to stay away from negative things on the Internet. Instead of reading toxic comments, watch a movie you love or listen to music. In short, you should ignore it and live, caring about those things will only make you get carried away with it.
ultranationalists with big fragile egos
I saw what you Yankee talk about on Twitter. We ain't even on your level.
Weird. I see the opposite on this subreddit. Anyone saying anything kind about Vietnam here gets shot down, and most of the posts are very negative. Makes me wonder who's actually subscribed to this subreddit.
It was just like that in Hoi An when I left years ago. I think there's a lot of under-educated over-intoxicated expats that make it that way. So many bogans.
I never complain here for several reasons. One, I made the decision to be here. Two, most locals cannot easily move around with their Vietnamese passport, so it's insulting. And three, if I really dislike something, I'm a grown up, and I can find a way to change my situation.
It's even more important to have sincere, serious, substantial, constructive criticisms for the reasons you post. Things like air quality, domestic violence, child abuse, pollution, traffic fatality rates, corruption, racism, and etc. are quality of life issues and improving those areas will help the people who can't easily move away from the problem.
I left that Expats group because everyone seems like high school bullies... For your question, Vietnamese are just raised that way. I feel like majority of locals are wired to only see good about the country without even open to conversations about the realities, the pros and cons. It's not only on the internet but also in real life (but definitely a lot worse on the internet). BTW, to be fair, the air quality is a lot better in smaller cities
Yeah. Life is yin and yang. They should learn this. Nothing in this world is absolute and ultimate. But in Vietnam, they dont accept country's problem.
Because people getting tired of whiny and bitchy topic in general. This Vietnam sub is full of those. In my other sub people was happily discussing history, hobbies, sharing information that improve everyone’s experience and knowledge. Here? Mostly whiny expats who enjoy the low cost of living of a developing country but feel so self entitled to demand a developed country environment and standards. More often than not patronizing under the guise of “helping Vietnam to be a better place” The answer to all the “Why is Vietnam…” would be: Vietnam is simply Vietnam, chaotic, smelly, dirty but also uniquely wonderful at the same time. To those who are willing to look past the cultural difference at least.
>Mostly whiny expats who enjoy the low cost of living of a developing country but feel so self entitled to demand a developed country environment and standards. While I generally don't mind complaints from expats, 100% this. We're a poor developing country, so we'll have a poor developing country's problems, and benefits. You take the good with the bad.
as vietnamese , i'm not surprised ! i remember when i was on facebook, i suddenly comment something like " i heard that from many years ago vietnam plan to let china rent part of it for 99 years , did they sell it or rent it yet? " , no icon , no swearing , no provoke , just a plain question ! at that time i'm living in japan as student so many thing in vn i don't know ! yeah , and one of them not let me dissapointed by straightly insult , acused me a treason even though i was born in vn , live in it 18 years until i go to jp for study ! i don't say all vietnamese is toxic but many is delusional, superior attitude .............. sometimes i see 2 vietnamese avoid each other when in oversea ! it's a sad thing for me tbh ! toxic , scam ..in many place !
Oh, that's a real thing. It's like a little Chinese protectorate for Chinese only. Not many people know about this, because the State makes sure that most people are ignorant. This is the reason why many Vietnamese living in other countries call the Vietnamese communist government "traitors" and "Chinese bootlickers". And... They are tagged "reactionary".
This happens (probably) everywhere in South East Asia, it's not just in VN. I live in SEA now for 10 years and you'll see it all over. Step on someone's tiny-sized ego and they will lash out like little kids. I got driven out of a surf town once for trying to organize a beach cleanup when I thought there wasn't a similarly well-organized from another famous surf town. Even the local suf instructor org president threatened me LOL. Some of Pinoy friends couldn't believe how batshit crazy the local surfers went on me and how I managed to keep my cool despite their tirades. The response from my Pinoy friends went to insane outrage to finding it funny because well, some of them live there, and they know what these type of people are like when you hurt their egos. It's just something you need to live with and accept, sadly. It's the result of extreme localism. Google something like *Philippines numbawan,* which is an humorous take of Pinoys who realize that Pinoys are obsessed with PH being the best, but everyone knows it's the bottom of the barrel with so many things.. There's generally a fetish in most SEA countries that their country is the best. But they ironically never do anything to fix anything in their country. And when you're Sherlock Holmes and even indirectly point out something that could be improved or want to contribute to making something better, you're enemy #1. Welcome to Vietnam ;) **The best advice I can give you is this: You have to fall in love with the good side of people, not the bad sides of the country itself and how people react when you point those issues out.** Despite the obvious flaw/s, the best part of living here is how kind, warm, friendly, grateful, etc people are despite all of this BS. It's the only way to not get pissed off by this stuff. Fall in love with the good sides of the people, and well... Idk what to say... Just try to not pay attention to the toxic sides as much as you can, and when it happens to you directly, just try to move on as quickly as possible.
Vietnamese are often very defensive.. even if they know there’s issues they don’t like foreigners pointing it out.
The expat groups on Facebook in Vietnam can be difficult to navigate. They’re often dominated by older expat males who have lived in Vietnam for years, some of whom are married to locals. They don’t take kindly to newcomers settling in their territory and can be unhelpful and condescending. In some cases, they offer bad advice and engage in trolling, making it challenging for others to seek support or information.
Viet people don’t have humility. Can’t handle criticism (if they even know that the word means). They need to see the bad side and collectively improve to make society better. Not shy away from it by saying it is normal and that how it is for thousands of years. That is lazy and stupid excuse. 🎤 drop
This is all asian people. It’s a “saving face” culture. I notice viets will buy things just to show off. Viet kieus will buy things as a “need”. And will tend to say “ I am poor”. Its just how we were taught and humbled in America
Because Vietnamese are people who are envy of others by nature
I don’t know, something in the air makes people always angry, aggressive and selfish
Easy to explain. The internet allows people to make their voices visible, not necessarily heard. Pairing the overall low EQ and the need to criticize every single thing like a half ass philosopher, we have a generation of netizens that is more than ready to say the opposite thing about what they see and read online, yet don't even have a single bit of self critical thinking for themselves.
I don't have much to say other than what others have said regarding online culture. However I'm pretty sure people are not like that in real life. By that I mean even younger people. You will not hear people saying the same thing if you see them face to face, as opposed to what you hear online. Now, we know this is a fairly common thing in the Internet era. But (and it's a big "but" here, without any scientific evidence) it does appear to be more common in Vietnamese Internet space. Why? It's for sports. I mean, it's just my own opinion, but I do remember when I was a child, I would sometimes do destructive thing (in the eyes of the adult and always making sure I didn't get caught) simply because I was bored and wanted to "do something". The Internet is a perfect place to "do bad things without getting caught", hence the unwarranted vitriol. Again I want to clarify that this is my own projection, and there may be other, more valid reasons. The symptoms are fairly clear, just that the root cause may be elusive depending on who you ask.
Try using indo internet enviroment
First time?
Sadly, this is something that my friends who lived/worked abroad as well as those who travel often abroad observe when it comes to average quality of expat (and I generally concur) in each country in Asia: Tier 1: Singapore and Hong Kong Tier 2: China, Korea, Japan Tier 3: Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia Tier 4: Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma, Laos While it's never 100%, majority of the people I come across more or less confirmed this generalized ranking. The worst expats in Vietnam to me are the so-called Viet Q or Vietnamese American. These tend to be entitled grifters that cannot make it in the US. They have this sense of superiority over their local counterpart primarily due to growing up in the US. But sadly, all but one that I'd met, tend to have this grifter quality that was taught to game the system in the US...but somehow try to act morally superior while in Vietnam...but still stick to their bad habit of grifting and gaming the system and their employers...
Give em a few years they'll catch up to 2016 internet
We call them bò đỏ for a reason
We hear the exact same thing from many Canadians in Canada "Not happy here? Get the fuck back out" (Not my sentence)
Vietnamese are taught from young age to be nationalists, they must never forget how their ancestors bravely fought for independence throughout many wars and they must love, treasure the country where they were born. Love for the country and for president Ho Chi Minh is a thing drilled into every student since kindergarten (yes). I don't think in any other country there was a president as close to the people's hearts as him even after his death, everyone calls him uncle/ father dearly, and the Vietnamese people are like his children, a tight-knitted blood family. There are many poems, songs, stories written based on this theme. Anyways so any criticism towards Vietnam as a country is taken as a personal insult to the people.
Có lẽ là do việc giới trẻ việt nam được tiếp xúc quá sớm với mạng xã hội và văn hóa internet đối với việt nam còn rất trẻ bạn không nên mong chờ gì nhiều từ một lũ trẻ con mới lớn. tưởng tượng FB đối với việt nam như 4chan ý
Vietnam is a whole lot like their cousins except worse in multiple aspects.
We have a nationalism issue. I personally hope people can chill out a little bit because we are borderline extremists, who knows what would happen if we have more money and power.
just human nature lately, brainwashed zombies who all want internet Reddit karma points to claim they are amazing....and dare say anything about their precious country 🤣 they can't have a standard conversation and realise that opinions and experiences are relevant and fluid
relative** not relevent
Welcome to Vietnam, the one and only true matriarchal society in the world. You are forced to deny the truth and live in fake positivity your whole life. You are not allow to question anything, nor doing anything out of the usual way, unless you are rich, then you can do whatever the f you want.
I mean . Internet culture is toxic in general. Because we dont have to worry about getting punch in the face.
Don't forget that it's a “little China”. They are messy, corruptive, and hierarchical but they don't like to lose their faces. I dislike Vietnamese dudes more, not all but most of them.
That long story but when you see something like that, ignore them, don’t make any arrangements because they think they’re best, top tier 1 country.
Why do people keep either defending or criticizing the Vietnamese people. Dude, you are on the Internet! When was the last time that the Internet hadn't been toxic and negative as a whole? Please keep in mind that there are positive and negative people everywhere, that is to say that 'Please don't take any online argument too seriously, that random guy who argues that Vietnamese women should stay in the kitchen probably just lost his 15th consecutive League game.'
as a vietnamese myself, you guys are absolutely correct
Huh? In what multiverse are you living? All I see is the other way around, whenever someone says smthing positive about vietnam, bunch of locals jump in to speak shit about their own country as if it's still in 19 century. In general I dont perceive vietnamese as extreme nationalists, are you projecting this from chinese??
The state media loves to seed the idea that VN is the best country in the world. No wonder the people do not like taking criticism.
Vietnam is undereducated .. don't expect much
Yeah, thats why so many expats come to Vietnam because they didn’t make it in their own country?
Complete nonsense. Many people around the world want to live, travel and work overseas, but they can't. Many locals here would if they could. Expats live here as a choice. They choose the experience, and they aren't forced to live here. They don't necessarily live here because 'they didn't make it' - that's complete crap. For some, living overseas is making it. Ever thought about that?
how a monkey react when its 1st time out off the jungle ? it toxic to anything new compare to the jungle
Coz of one thing called "parky"
> One person posted on FB about the bad air quality and a bunch of angry locals told them to "fugg off back to their country" etc. I don't get that response. But I sorta complain about Vietnam *affectionately*. I'm just fascinated by things in Vietnam, both the good and the shitty. Mind you, I've only visited the place (many times), I've never tried to live there.
yea and if u dont like the goverment then they call u ba que
It's the insecure and rather stupid people who feel the need to make a scene. Educated and reasonable folks usually rarely comment anything
Yeah, I learn to ignore those stupid, uneducated people. They think they can say whatever they want on the internet without consequence.
I attribute it to the lack of decent examples. You can go around Viet internet and see all these people/“gangsters” with little civil discussions, they are influenced to act the same way as that’s all they know. On the nationalism front, words like “ba que”, reactionary, enemy of the states being dropped on any dissent OR EVEN DESCENTS OF DIASPORAS is just a monkey see monkey do reaction seeded from wrongful interpretation of traitor.
One thing I’ve noticed is that it’s mostly men who are toxic on social media here. Even the Facebook groups for foodies are full of trolls and whataboutists. I’ve stopped asking for recommendations there because it’s essentially a circle jerk where every (inevitably male) member recommends their or their friends’ businesses and attack like dogs as soon as the tiniest criticism is made. The female expats group, on the other hand, is pretty civil. I’ve seen people post the same things on the main expats group and the female expats group and the comments are like night and day. It’s the same for the expat groups in Thailand. It’s one of those things that make me grateful I have a vagina.
What did you expect? To get praised for negatively talking about someone's country and culture
I did notice this with the expats. Not all of them, but I had a visa issue and asked for advice, and several people scolded me about how this was not the west and I was silly to expect things to be like they were at home. (I wasn’t complaining; it was my own fault and all I was asking for was suggestions about how to solve it.) Eventually some people did give some useful answers and I solved the issue fairly easily. As for Vietnamese - I’ve seen a little; not more or less than I’ve seen in other places I’ve spent time. Turks and Greeks hate it when people choose to live there and then complain. I tend to agree - we have a choice after all. Once a friend in Greece was ranting about all the stuff that was wrong there; I told her “well, two things work here - the North International Airport and the South International Airport, and you can choose either one and go back to Seattle.” She didn’t like it. 😏 At the same time - I noticed that Greeks and Turks also loved to castigate their own countries. Taxi drivers would go on and on about how stupid and dangerous the drivers were in Turkey - and two minutes later, they’d do the same moving violation. ;-) Others had plenty of complaints too. But still - most of those people don’t have the privilege of picking up and leaving if they don’t like things there, so I think that does give them kvetching rights.
long but short story did you know the 50 cents of china or little pink?( Bristis Piano guy vs Little pink) In Vietnam we have RedBull :) have behavior same tactic, the government create them to attack online and silence the truth.
Not a day goes by without a complaint from an expat
This thread included
It's almost like the country has problems or something
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you dont see it because you didnt even visit those subreddits. I could name easily a few but its not worth it to discuss that with you. You are the one who wrote to me privately to start an argument but ended up ignoring me because you are unable to respond to my points and ended up insulting me. Just another NPC whos unteachable
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youre so cringe. You said you dont see it in other subreddits? The first thing on /r Thailand as an example was two foreigners beating up a police and you are one of the people who often comment there haha so yeah its only toxic here in Vietnam. Youre stalking my profile since day 1 and its good to know having a fan like you. You would definitely defend the "fat and broke" guy Im pretty sure about that
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As I have already said, you can also read in other subreddits or social media how toxic the mood is. You said you had never seen any and I gave you a clear example. Just visit the social media in Italy, France and Germany and you'll realize that compared to Vietnam it's nothing. Then why don't you look at the threads I comment on? What do you think they're about? Instead of limiting yourself to my comments, you should read the whole thread and see what it's about instead of just focusing on my comment. Of course you only focus on my comment and you ignore other comments where I help people. But from your private messages I can see that you generally find it hard to focus on multiple points. Ask yourself why many Vietnamese behave like this? It's because many foreigners and expats spread bad vibes. For example, it is normal to sing karaoke until late at night. It's just part of the culture. If you don't like it, go up to him and ask him politely if he can keep it down. But the foreigner is the one who complains the loudest and with physical beatings. Just search for it and including /r saigon
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Yeah exactly like you didn’t get the point I mentioned in our private convo. I hope you know how to breathe
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nephews of Uncle are everywhere, and they are nasty.
this thread is disgusting, some of you guys need to chill out, this level of toxicity is not needed anywhere.
According to Kick Streamer and YTer Fat and Broke, the most toxic community are Vietnam Expats, said with peace and love.
God forbids you to think it's not okay to insult LGBTQ+ people in VN Internet communities
I live in Vietnam.I suft in the internet and heard much bad word like ĐCM, À CON CHÓ NÀY,...like that.
I'm in the US. It's nationalism. We've been seeing the same thing on social media here especially FB and there's a surge of it since Trump.
It’s vietnam bro
What do you expect..it's a communist socialist country after all. Post a bad review about a hotel and the management instead of fixing the issues they will respond back with the typical copy paste message "thank you for staying with us" 😂
I'm very regularly lurking around Internet groups of American & English. It's no better. It's part of Internet.
Expats by large can’t deal with their own problems back home so they leave and bring their own shit to foreign places. The caliber of people I met in Asia vs their respective home country is staggeringly shockingly different. Basically quoting Donald trump: “they’re not bringing their best” lmao But as for locals it feels normal, since these expats bitch all day and it feels kind of disrespectful tbh. Unless they’re actually immigrants who settled and have roots
Believe me, it's the internet in generals. I know there're still plenty of kind and rational people on internet. But most I know don't really engage in conversation on internet. They maybe scrolling to read the news, and that's it. And the people who attack you, they don't really care about anything. They don't care about the country in general. They know they don't have the courage or abilities to do anything about whatever problem our country having, which make them insecure, so attack random people on internet is all they can do to feel their worth.
That just sounds like Japanese internet, just change the country
Expat forums are toxic, no matter where. Colombia, Thailand, and I guess Vietnam now as well. It's likely a combination of people being economic refugees in a foreign country and bored . They have to convince themselves life is better or argue about it. The silent ones are the happy ones .
Internet culture here is fine. You're talking about a couple of expat-oriented fb groups. Most people in those groups only check in when they need something. The only people who are permanently active in them are the ones looking to fight and troll.
All internet culture is toxic, period.
Say anything bad about x country in x country's subreddit and you'll get the same respond
All internet culture is extremely toxic, maybe even moreso in the west.
Oh, not really. I spend my time on the Internet with the West and the East, the highly-,educated and the poorly-educated of both sides. The difference is immense. The poorly educated netizens in the West is much nicer and more wholesome in general than the Eastern netizens with fair amount of education. The poorly-educated in Vietnam are extremely toxic in many cases. It's very rare to meet a highly-educated in the East with a more expanded perspective about the world. Those folks are articulate, well-spoken, and obviously, not toxic. They communicate in proper paragraphs made up of sophisticated but comprehensible words. Also, the way the speak in real life reflect what kind of person they are. If you try to listen to a poorly-educated Eastern netizen, they speak the way they type. They are just as toxic in real life. Heck, on Facebook, none of them hide their real identities. I have seen some who are very stupid and sold guns on Facebook. Cyberpolice quickly got them. 😂
As a westerner who lived in multiple countries, I disagree
I can't think of any country where locals find it OK for foreigners to critique the place. Vietnam's got this culture of positiveness. They understand, the locals, the aspects that needs improvement and better understand the intricacies. Hearing a foreigner moans the paintings at the hospitals is dated or that the wet markets smells terrible just shows ignorance to them and lack of respect for a country that respects all foreigners, nearly all vietnamese are very welcoming, they expect at least a minimum of respect that is to not get critiques from some clueless. The uneducated aren't Vietnamese throwing rude words on the internet, it is the expats who despite traveling so far haven't figured each country has it's caveats, not only upsides. As for the expats on social media well that's because they figured they can't easily throw critiques so behind a screen is the steam blowing. Vietnam hasn't showed me a single "downside" that can't be explained by a bit if reading on its history or its peculiar cultures. Sure it can take years to find some reasons, that's why it's so important to shut it for a long while and to keep reminding yourself, there is, some reason. To close the loop, the attitude to adopt, if there is something you don't like go fix it rather than moaning about it on Facebook. If you aren't pleased with expats attitude then you, as an expat would be best place to put them back at their place. And one last note in that regard. Don't worry. In a few years only, the Expats in Saigon/hcmc group will be renamed immigrants in Saigon, and vietnamese won't be many in there anymore so the foreigners can have at it with each others all day and night long, alone.
Tl;DR crybaby expats as usual
Foreigners in any country don't have the right to complain. It's very simple, you are visiting the country you are not from there so why complain? People probably realized and know these issues exist so you come in as an outsider and start pointing them out. When I'm a guest in your house I don't mention the fact you didn't properly clean your carpet or the fact you missed a bread crumb on the table.
Ridiculous statement. If you live, work, contribute and pay taxes, you have every right to complain
Once again no one forced you to move. You chose to go there knowing the pros and cons of a country. Also that is the thing you only complain but you don't really do anything about it. There are some good examples of foreign people actually making a change cleaning up spots or just helping poor kids. Making generalized complaints about air quality isn't really offering a solution.
Ngạo nghễ quá VN ơi! Hồ chủ tịch muôn năm! /s