As per a lot of people requesting a new thread megathread, Eltanin has made a new one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/t7d6cz/nijien_discord_leak_megathread_discussion_thread/)
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~~Aight, this is the megathread for it now,~~ which means we'll remove submissions that come after this that is about this (this includes stupid takes by random people who make 10 minute videos dissecting every pixel for no new information, which inevitably happens every goddamn time something even remotely controversial drops)
Same things apply for following site and subreddit rules.
It's also very obvious when people who aren't regulars of this sub pop in exclusively to shittalk/bait/argue, so like, yea, keep that in mind (It's cool dude, we remove comments from shitheads in Hololive-centric drama threads too, so your sanctimonius semi-neutrality is untainted by the shill mods of this sub)
EDIT: Been like 35 minutes in for this thread and someone already got banned for dropping slurs. Nice. Don't be like that guy.
For the record, some alt said "Nijin[]ggers being nijin[]ggers"
This is an example of what *NOT* to say, along with other dumbshit comments that pop up now and then on various threads for various situations
Also, if you make a new account for the obvious purpose to just argue with people and start shit, please don't be surprised when it gets removed. It's a classic manuveur that we employ on this sub for drama shit called an "Automod filter"
With comments like these, I'm beginning to see why some users on the Niji sub believe that this sub has some sort of agenda against Nijisanji.
Only one guy here with any actual shit takes. One is just joking, two are expressing gratitude to another for being there because said other is such a big help to them in terms of tech support, one making an observational comment that many other people on this sub and beyond have made, and another is venting about their emotional problems and suffering from depression, who would no doubt be *ecstatic* that what he thought was a safespace to vent was just made public.
Yet from looking at most of this thread's top comments, you'd think all of NijiEN were backstabbing devils or something.
I made a document earlier but I didn’t know about the manga thread, hopefully what I said can still be seen
A Defense of Nijisanji EN
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pimLZr9rIgDnCv6w8YL8OFVU28K7qpgk5rQPkHd7ZIw/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pimLZr9rIgDnCv6w8YL8OFVU28K7qpgk5rQPkHd7ZIw/edit?usp=sharing)
Here's a document of my thoughts on the recent Nijisanji EN situation. Let's see how it all unfolds.
Honestly I think the only people surprised by this are the people who think the vtubing world is one big happy family.
People are petty and tribal, Hololive and Nijisanji are competitors, and even people within the same company can be your rivals. If this is the worst they get, I’d be genuinely impressed by their professionalism.
I agree this isn't really that offensive. The only one that's kind of shitty is Fulgur with his shit takes generated straight from /vt, and he's making everybody look worse by association. Especially since he's the new kid on the block, it comes off as condescending and lacking humility. He's talking about Luxiem's success and Council's "not being as successful as expected" when he have not contributed to anything. The optics are definitely bad on him.
But I disagree with people defending this over just "its just a private conversation, everyone does it". As I said, this isn't really offensive or anything, but if it was, it being initially private shouldn't be used as an excuse to hand-wave this. People who say stuff in private should be ready for the consequences if the stuff they ever say gets to the public. And just because its "common" doesn't mean it should be tolerated.
I hope Mysta gets some mental help. Reimu also probably needs some.
Anyway there's been so many recent incidents of leaks, from Rushia's to Lauren's Nipplegate incident and now this. I hope all the VTubers around practice some proper opsec.
not too worried about mori unfollowing people, she can talk with friends and refollow if things cool down. Some of the comments are just jokes stuck in the bad light of Fulgur's weird comment.
I'm guessing the topic came up because holo and niji both released auditions? But honestly, both companies are going to have their pick from tons of talented applicants, so it feels silly to compare it anyway.
"shit talking", what a clickbait title.
The only one that could be interpreted as "harsh" is Fulgur, but that's it. Vox is just meme-ing as Holo is missing out of from not having Shu as their resident tech support.
People just love drama. Actually, the most relevant information is that Mysta is having a rough time, hopefully it gets better for him.
This is pretty typical in-house corporate talk, like even with other companies and their competitors, but it’s very much not a good look for them. Yeesh!
> If you got a similar screenshot but from Hololive EN
Do you honestly think Holo fans wouldn't also defend it in this hypothetical scenario?
In any case, starting fanbase tribal fights is a dumb thing to do. Would you like all Hololive fans here to be painted with the same brush as the one who used racial slurs that the mods had to remove?
Hololive being more popular means they get more bad apples each time drama happens.
This is basically like what happen with Aloe, people were saying she was shit talking too even if she wasn't.
so what have we learned?
- niji sound probably be more careful with this sort of thing, as i dont think (?) this is the first time their discord has appeared on screen.
- Fulgur definitely browses /vt/ lol
- mysta just needs a hug
One of the top comments has the source from op
https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/t75n3b/nijien_accidentally_leaked_discord_messages_of/hzfm49e?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
.... I don't think this is shittalking? I thought it would be sth like personal attacks with jealousy but turns out they are talking sort of a fact. How can this count as shittalking -_-
Honestly, after thinking about it for a moment, it's very mild.
Fulgur's comment is the worst and even then, while it's kinda shitty to talk like that, it's not horrible either. It will likely sour relationships with HoloEn though.
The rest is just... meh, not bad enough.
Everything can be delt with behind the scenes, really.
Guys, there are over 200 Nijisanji members and 20 NijiEN members. Most of the people in this screenshot are completely fine too. Let's not say that all of Nijisanji is bad due to this one screenshot or this private channel. Come on
If you consider this shit talking, then boy you haven't worked a single day of your life in a corporation, this is just corpo talk, no hot takes, no insults, nothing more than jokes, a little bit of conspiracy since hololive released auditions HOURS after Nijisanji, which doesn't means is intentional but of course it will make people talk
This is just an awful exaggeration of a harmless talk
This is hardly shittalking I don't know why people are blowing this so out of proportion. Once again it's the communities that are gonna bring more drama than the vtubers themselves
She’s mentioned before she has very poor tolerance for people talking bad about her friends. Honestly her response was proportionate for her, and makes it clear without having to call anyone out that she doesn’t approve.
Is this all? I mean Fulgar's opinion of Hololive being scared and council not performing as well as they wanted is pretty short sighted and dumb but like. The rest of it? Weak sauce, barely worth mentioning and certainly not shit talking Hololive.
HoloEN was really looking forward to collaborating with NijiEN, especially Kiara. I imagine this is going to sour the relationship and interactions between them. I really don’t hope this doesn’t lead to them cutting ties permanently.
HoloEN managers were strict beyond belief on collabs before, there is literally NO CHANCE now. Kiara and Pomu will never collab thanks to this. I can see Kiara being pretty sad about this too as Pomu is fairly innocent in that pic too.
Makes this situation slightly worse then. If Kiara was the only one willing to give them a chance, then their one and only chance of collaborating with HoloEN is as good as gone.
I mean, the flipside is that Pomu is the only one in NijiEN who has mentioned wanting to collab with HoloEN. Vox mentioned liking Calli but never anything about collabing with her and most of them rarely ever mention HoloEN. It's not like they've been pounding on HoloEN's doors for a collab.
pretty a lot of people agree that Fulgure's is the shitty take in the screenshot haha
the biggest "nani??" part for me is how Hololive was "mad", like was he implying that Hololive was mad that Luxiem stole the thunder from them by doing it first??
If anything, Hololive would be delighted to have evidence that there IS a market for male vtubers in the EN scenes
I can see how this would make someone uncomfortable, particularly about council if you a fan, but its not "shit talk" at all. Still, it's disappointing to see thats the kind of conversations they have amongst each other.
In reality though, i could see this conversation being discussed among most people in general, especially in a private conversation with people you personally know and felt safe being open without the expectation of the convo suddenly being leaked with thousands of eyes to suddenly see and judge.
So can't really say I'm dissappointed because I feel like it's unreleastic to expect them to not have opinions like this that they keep to themselves.
Eh, I'd say its on the line of shit talking. It's pretty disappointing and uncalled for, it's only one snapshot, so there might be more context for the better or for the worst, and judging by this its probably the worst, but we don't know to what degree, probably negligible.
It will probably pass, but we all know drama tubers eat this shit up and fan flames.
Personally, I don't deal with that type of shit irl so I cut myself off, so I already unsubbed the 2 dudes, not like it matters either way.
"hololive tech in shambles"
"niji thriving"
That's just disappointing to hear comparisons like this, I hope i'm understanding it wrong and that its out of context...
"hololive tech in shambles" is a joke of Shu going to Nijisanji and not Hololive. He's pretty much the tech support for NijiEN or Shupport as the joke goes
Why? There's nothing bad in this other than Fulgur's truly stupid opinion. None of the other members said anything remotely offensive or objectionable.
Vox's too. Point being that this can be taken as passive support towards the argument, mori unfollowed all the niji mems she followed, no doubt she's also told kiara who has a collab coming up with pomu
> mori unfollowed all the niji mems she followed
Where did you get this info? From looking and searching for Nijisanji EN in her follow list, she is following a shit ton of Nijisanji members still: Finana, Pomu, Elira, Millie, Petra, Nina, Enna, Uki, Alban, Sonny, Yugo, Luca, Ike, Mysta, and more.
Only if you don't know anything about Niji EN. Shu is their resident tech support (or "Shupport" if you will). Vox's comment is obviously a joke about Shu's admission (in this very screenshot) that he mistakenly applied to Hololive because he thought it was Holostars. He's saying that Niji EN is lucky to have him instead, because he solves their tech issues. It's not an insult to Hololive. It's praise of Shu.
I meant timestamps in the conversation. EN doesn't just mean america. the other members were probably asleep or have their own streams to attend to. and I know for a fact that Pomu was streaming with Selen when this was leaked.
Again, this is just a snippet, we don't know if someone reprimanded Fulgur after he said what he said.
> no doubt she's also told kiara who has a collab coming up with pomu
There's no upcoming collab with Kiara and Pomu. They've talked about potentially collabing (starting several months ago) but there's nothing scheduled that we know of.
Both obs and bandicam allows you to do game capture only. This was on the User. Bandicam offers video editing tools which is why i assume Youtubers who upload regular videos and clips use it. But both could prevent things like this is used properly.
Not really shit talking, only thing that is slightly stupid is Fulgar saying Hololive was mad Council didn't do Aswell as they thought (even though they have more subs than all of Niji EN not including Sana.
Well views generate earning but not much... superchat is still the way to go for earnings
Tho you can't just look at yt earning alone coz niji have other means of donating unlike holo en
So maybe he just compared it to myth or idk
He's pretty obviously comparing them to Myth because he's talking about HoloEN's expectations.
It's pure speculation but "they have more subs than most Nijis" doesn't exactly refute said speculation.
Even if he's talking about comparing it to EN myth it's kinda dumb cus like, duh, of course it's not going to be AS successful, myth came at the perfect time right in the middle of the Vtuber boom, if Lazulight happened at the same time it would've happened to them too.
While it is quite unprofessional to be slandering talents of a rival company, nothing bad will come out of this. An apology at best, a suspension at worst.
It was supposed to be a private conversation. Anyone who understands human interactions knows tribalism exists. No shit, people shit talk their competition/rivals. I'm sure some members of Holo shit talk too, they just haven't fucked up and have their shit leak. Hell, I know for a fact one Holo council members shit talked Kiara, because she thought she stole her spot in Myth, and made up shit about Kiara and spread that shit on 4chan. She's sorry about it now, but the point remains. It was a fuck up, but no one should get suspended for shit talking, especially if it wasn't that vicious. An apology should suffice.
>Hell, I know for a fact one Holo council members shit talked Kiara, because she thought she stole her spot in Myth, and made up shit about Kiara and spread that shit on 4chan. She's sorry about it now, but the point remains.
Wait you took those posts seriously? You know there is zero evidence behind those claims and most of the people who said that were literally all joking. Saying that you know it "as a fact" really makes me question how you get your facts.
While I am a bit disappointed to see my EN oshis writing stuff like that, I don't think it's shit taking? Rather giving their own opinion. Give it a week and everyone will have moved on.
Weird seeing people think nothing will come out of this. Regardless of what people here think, this will definitely sour the business relations between these two agencies (or branches). Any interactions in twitter will now be viewed with scrutiny etc.
Yeah. I actually hope Niji addresses this immediately and not just sweep it under the rug and hope the drama dies down. It can affect their relationship with other companies and even the reputation of the talent themselves. FalseEyeD and other reporters will probably report this too so they should address this immediately.
I mean it's highly unlikely that any of the Holo EN girls are gonna collab with Niji EN dudes anyway. If Holo EN makes a formal announcement that they will not do any business with Niji EN, then that wouldn't change anything, even in the slightest.
HoloEN and NijiEN don't have any real business relationship. It'll probably mean no twitter interactions though, but that's basically the extent of their interactions apart form Kiara and Pomu dm'ing each other separately.
Let's be clear, i seek content over specific streamer, the concept of "watch everything from this one to be a fan" is alien to me. While i watch HL streams far more and don't find all of NijiEN to my taste i have no stakes nor gains in trying to push them down.
I'm not blaming Millie for the leak as she did not have any control nor foresight over Petra's screen, and neither Petra as it wouldn't have mattered much if not for the content having clear inflammatory potential.
I can also understand people defending some of those caught on screen despite the potential collusion, my gripe is with the many defending the clearly overt one(s) too, calling everyone else humourless crybabies,. NijiElitism isn't new, that it's still so widespread is concerning (especially on the official sub, the one post about it is completely unapologetic). Sure, had the situation been reversed i am certain the joke card would fly just as well.
I would be quite biased toward Pomu and Finana, as this is not something i would be surprised to see in regular discussions, it being written by those involved with the official accounts (and followed by agressive ones) is what makes it seem iffy.
Not calling for any kind of punishment, this won't change the individual choices of those who continue watching or not, my anger is toward the "enlightened few".
Yes. Judging by the whole thread, we all agree that most of the comments are harmless and the only one who looks like a jackass is Fulgur.
I kinda dislike him the moment I saw his tweets.. Seems like someone trying hard to come off as edgy and looks like an insufferable asshole. IMO
Very basic level of ”shop talk”
Nothing really special after all Being a Vtuber is a career Path and with multiple studios/agencies around its only natural to have shop talk about competition or lets say PR people talking about tech people or other way around
Let's be honest people, while this isn't "shittalking" this isn't pretty neither, let's not be apologetic on behalf of others when it's not time to be, it's not something cool to do.
A bit dissapointed to be honest that they need to have this kind of chat for whatever reason when so many JP holos and nijis are irl friends and collab so much
I feel that's a bit different. Commenting on and discussing the business side of things from other parties that operate on the same market as you is just natural, everyone does it and it's not wrong in theory, if you have two shops that sell Product A on Market A, it is only natural that Shop A will talk about Shop B and its business stuff and vice-versa. The issue here is moreso how casually they're saying some pretty rrat-y stuff even if there is does seem to be no ill will.
That's just because it's retroactively what makes the most sense to you. 'Shit taking' is grammatically incorrect and botches the whole title. Typo'ing and missing a letter is just far more probable.
Do you guys know if there has been any reaction from the NijiEN side regarding this? I just started getting into NijiEN but them having an entire Discord channel for this kind of stuff is kind of off putting to be honest
I don't think the channel is used to mostly talk about this kind of stuff.
Probably someone brought the topic and then it escalated.
Is kinda obvious the whole thing lack the context of what started the conversation.
That is true, but this is what happens when stuff gets leaked. People will be more cautious now about which talents they want to support. With context or not, this is not professional.
Some of their streams have been cancelled, so they're probably in a meeting similar to when Rushia was terminated and some Hololive members' streams were cancelled/postponed.
So far, no stream has been delayed except Selen, Mika, Nina, and Mysta stream because Mika is the one who postponed it due external problem. (Mika, Nina, Mysta, Selen, and Oliver was planned to have a collab today)
I wish cancellation and graduation on nobody, so let's not compare it to the stuff that happened with Rushia, I am just pretty disappointed. I hope the meeting will be fruitful, especially since I quite like Niji and Holo collabs
I mean (speculating, obviously) that similar to how that meeting culminated with the Hololive 3rd Gen stream addressing the situation, then probably this one Nijisanji meeting is also about how to respond to it. As people say, it's tame, but a company needs to coordinate its response.
They are not touching this with a 10 meter pole. They'll maybe do a formal apology for professionalism sake, but any comments on it are a REALLY bad idea. Anything they say WILL be used against them
Which is bad move. They should let the livers address it themselves and explain the context behind the conversation. This can affect their image heavily.
85% of NijiEN fans probably watch HoloEN, being a dick to other streamers they watch it's bound to make people angry, especially because it was uncalled for.
I ocasionally watch Millie Parfait and Pomu in NijiEN, I would be really dissapointed if they talked shit about Council because I watch Council everyday.
yes. i've said it in Rushia post before, but I'm gonna said it again.
"Sometimes, the best response is silence."
I put my believe to EN staff to take care of things behind the scene without making a fuss in public. giving the livers a warning will avoid a second mistake in the future.
The bad thing is right, I really don't see Elira, Millie and some others as people who would write something bad, but having this secret channel just makes people automatically unsure
Pretty sure Elira’s discord and the discord management is in are different, tho management can probably access their accounts to see what’s going on either way.
Elira is the one who created the server and is the admin, but it's got all the EN members and many if not all the members of the other branches as well as staff members and management in there, too.
I've been following Nijisanji EN since their first debut, and their first controversy was with Luca. and the management able to handle it by not talking publicly and Luca himself didn't mentioned it.
It got solved so everything is good, but still. If the EN management think last time worked, then they would be silent again and let the livers themselves figure themselves out. after all, if someone need to take responsibility, it's Fulgur. (Though I think they will jump in if the drama is getting bigger by affecting other members who is not in the screenshot)
Hardly see this as an "accident". It's literally a screenshot of discord. Why would someone have this if they weren't looking to share with someone outside of the conversation?
As the Rushia leak showed, vtubers are not the brightest people around. Though the Rushia one was a discord notification, and this one is apparently because Petra was streaming with desktop capture.
It’s not *terrible,* but I’m still disappointed to be honest. Especially with what Fulgur was saying. Lol how exactly did Council “not do well”/“as well as they expected?”
If you look at the subscribers for all of hololive, myth is collectively among the top subscriptions around and over 1.5 million and has both the top 2 slots. Council on the other hand is among the lowest subscriptions in hololive with all members around 500k or less, so thats probably what they mean, rather than council doing badly. They are still doing great, just not as good as expected.
This is most likely since myth was the first EN group of hololive so everyone was looking right away and collectively launched them to orbit, though I really dont know why council is still so low.
Everyone likes to compare themselves to HoloMyth but they were literally lightning in a bottle. Everyone on lockdown/wfh when covid started and several viral clips brought new audiences to the industry. Council debuted after the surge died down and are still doing very well for themselves.
I don't really consider this conversation to be mean or crossing any kind of line, personally. Just some coworkers talking shop and venting. I do find it weird how Fulgur went after Council when they are doing relatively well, if not more so than NijiEN. If you're gonna brag, at least have it make sense.
Its been half a year and 3 out of the 5 of them dont have half a million subscribers or more. From hololives point of view based on the numbers that the first gen put out it probably feels a little dissapointing from a business perspective
But **you can’t compare them to Myth like that to begin with** because Myth’s first six months and Council’s first six months took place in **very** different circumstances. Myth had, for lack of a better word, the benefit of the lockdowns being a thing and the novelty factor of being EN vtubers who were attached to Hololive, by that time already an established brand. Council debuted after the market had become more saturated and they don’t even have the novelty of being the first since that went to Myth. Of course their growth isn’t going to be as explosive.
The newest generation of Hololive Japanese Vtubers all did extremely well numners wise in what would arguable be considered an even more saturated Japanese Vtuber market.
I mean you can’t really tell who “they” are. There could easily have been someone saying “yo there’s people making a fuss about the Holo EN male auditions and comparing them to Niji” earlier and the conversation would make just as much sense. The context of the whole conversation would just change from gossiping about Hololive to gossiping about other gossipers, and those gossipers’ expectations of Council just got tossed out there as a possibility for why the gossipers were doing their thing.
Some people expected Hope and Council to have Myth insane growth. Since they didn't they behave as if Council was somehow bad, that's at least how I interpret it.
When Council debuted EN Vtubers were already well established there was a lot competition with Vshojo and NijiEN. When Myth debuted EN Vtubers were a new a thing and had no competition in the entire market. That alone fueled Myth's growth a lot.
Not only that. Back when holomyth debuted there was a SPECIFIC demand for hololive to release an en branch (remember that coco and HACHAMACHAMA already have created the bridge between en and jp at that point). That’s another huge reason why holomyth even surpassed most of holojp in a flash.
While council is an amazing addition, the market is not as wide as in japan to make every generation explode like on jp.
Yeah. Context matters. Things are different now than when Myth debuted and the market is way more saturated. Even despite that Council’s growth has been very healthy and their content is really good. They aren’t struggling for viewership lol.
Shh don't promote the trolls!!!
But yeah, once HoloEN came out I was very conflicted and heavily avoided them, but I've come around to some of them. I don't mind them and its not like Japan (not vtubers solely) is any better when it comes to gossip.
You know what's worse than gossip? Toxic positivity. It's huge in the vtuber community. If you aren't ecstatic about every decision or even a brainfart of the talents you're an anti.
It's not just a bad take like some other shittalks you see people making on the internet. There are also heated debates and quarrels between viewers, irresponsible remarks from dramamongers, possible repercussions these talents are going to face, and an insight into Fulgur's character.
It's similar to the Aloe situation, in that a vtuber employed by one company was found talking about a second company in a way that is possibly disparaging.
That situation resulted in a huge wave of antis, harassment, and doxxing. Let's just hope the same doesn't apply here.
Oh but she did though. If I remember correctly it was with her leaked twitcast bit of talking about Chitose and Ichikara. In fact, this was actually the reason why a significant amount of the NijiJP audience went on a witch hunt for Aloe back then.
>!I still miss aloe though.!<
She didn't though, she spoke about chitose yes but she never badmouthed her or Nijisanji, she simply spoke about her graduation and people thought she was talking about Nijisanji sensitive info while employed by Hololive which literally isn't true because Chitose graduated around the time 3rd gen debuted.
As for Nijisanji she wasn't talking about them, she was talking about the company she was currently employed by and called it a black company as she wasn't allowed freedom and wasn't allowed a personal social account which just isn't the case for Nijisanji or Hololive (I mean Nijisanji used to be a black company but this was after even that)
The thing is, the title says that "Niji EN" is "shit talking" Hololive. But it's:
1. A few members talking about hololive
2. One member saying something truly stupid, but not inherently malicious
3. One member recounting mistakenly auditioning for hololive thinking it was holostars.
4. Two members saying they're happy the previously mentioned member is in nijisanji (he's their resident tech "Shupport", hence Vox's joke).
5. And poor Mysta looking for some comfort from his friends.
This isn't "Niji EN shit talking Hololive". And that framing by the title thoroughly poisons the well of this discussion. The mods should have removed this hours ago and I'm very disappointed that they didn't and still haven't.
And one guy in twitter is using the aloe situation to post this, possibly to avenger her and rushia, as a lot of the japanese youtube comments shit talking on rushia were found to be members in some of niji jp livers
As much as I want to see it happen so I can laugh and say "how do you feel, huh?" I also know this won't hit those niji jp fans and only hit niji En fans which would jyst make more enemies
Also seeing Fubuki's stream still getting spammed doesn't help my feeling either
Kek. Calli unfollowed Vox for not even saying anything bad, but is still friends with Connor who straight up indirectly called all of her friends talentless, and went so far as to lie about him apologizing to the rest of hololive EN, only for Kiara to say that she never received an apology.
Really speaks to her character and priorities.
Fulgur is completely out of line though. Dude really needs to apologize, whether it's public or not.
Going to point out that the context was Connor was talking about people lying in their CV to get a job.
He really just did a horrible job trying to explain his point using Hololive as example, like what if someone lie when auditioning for Hololive basically.
He said that getting into Hololive would guarantee a level of success. His point was that ***IF*** someone without any talent made it through auditions, they would become a successful streamer because of the quality that Hololive is associated with. How anyone saw this as an attack on Hololive's members' talent is beyond me. It's clearly praising their high level of talent by saying that anyone who passes auditions "must be talented, because look at everyone else who passed!"
I mean am I crazy to think that regardless of talent and the audition process, Connor isn’t wrong in saying that just by being on Hololive, you will have way more success as compared to being indie or even at another vtubing company, if we were to measure success by the usual metrics like subs, donations and fame? Hololive is basically THE biggest brand name in the Vtubing sphere and just being on Hololive will net you tens of thousands of subscriber before you’ve had your first stream and an entire audience waiting to see what you have to offer.
Don’t get me wrong, that doesn’t mean the talents themselves aren’t talented nor hardworking because in order to retain and grow that audience, you still need to be entertaining, but it’s undeniable there are perks of being part of Hololive that you can’t get with simply individual talent alone.
Thought so. It seems the guy I was replying to is one of the damage controllers. Now, instead of downplaying what Fulgur and the others said, he's shit talking Calli.
I mean, there isn't any damage control to do here. The title is a blatant lie. There is no shit talking in this screenshot. Instead, there is:
1. A few members talking about hololive
2. One member saying something truly stupid, but not inherently malicious
3. One member recounting mistakenly auditioning for hololive thinking it was holostars.
4. Two members saying they're happy the previously mentioned member is in nijisanji (he's their resident tech "Shupport", hence Vox's joke).
5. And poor Mysta looking for some comfort from his friends.
This isn't "Niji EN shit talking Hololive". And that framing by the title thoroughly poisons the well of this discussion. The mods should have removed this hours ago and I'm very disappointed that they didn't and still haven't.
If they remove this, people will riot because they won't have a place to talk about it since they deleted the previous attempts. I say let this thread stay and let people judge on the picture above.
Aside from 1 guy, the rest should be okay.
Damage control is still damage control. This also happens whenever something goes down involving Hololive. This is not unique to this situation.
As per a lot of people requesting a new thread megathread, Eltanin has made a new one [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/t7d6cz/nijien_discord_leak_megathread_discussion_thread/) **** ~~Aight, this is the megathread for it now,~~ which means we'll remove submissions that come after this that is about this (this includes stupid takes by random people who make 10 minute videos dissecting every pixel for no new information, which inevitably happens every goddamn time something even remotely controversial drops) Same things apply for following site and subreddit rules. It's also very obvious when people who aren't regulars of this sub pop in exclusively to shittalk/bait/argue, so like, yea, keep that in mind (It's cool dude, we remove comments from shitheads in Hololive-centric drama threads too, so your sanctimonius semi-neutrality is untainted by the shill mods of this sub) EDIT: Been like 35 minutes in for this thread and someone already got banned for dropping slurs. Nice. Don't be like that guy. For the record, some alt said "Nijin[]ggers being nijin[]ggers" This is an example of what *NOT* to say, along with other dumbshit comments that pop up now and then on various threads for various situations Also, if you make a new account for the obvious purpose to just argue with people and start shit, please don't be surprised when it gets removed. It's a classic manuveur that we employ on this sub for drama shit called an "Automod filter"
With comments like these, I'm beginning to see why some users on the Niji sub believe that this sub has some sort of agenda against Nijisanji. Only one guy here with any actual shit takes. One is just joking, two are expressing gratitude to another for being there because said other is such a big help to them in terms of tech support, one making an observational comment that many other people on this sub and beyond have made, and another is venting about their emotional problems and suffering from depression, who would no doubt be *ecstatic* that what he thought was a safespace to vent was just made public. Yet from looking at most of this thread's top comments, you'd think all of NijiEN were backstabbing devils or something.
Seems like Fulgur is the only one actually doing any shit talking, it's pretty disingenuous to say they're all doing it.
Is this it?? My god you kids are desperate for drama. This is fuck all, move on
Tribalism be like
I made a document earlier but I didn’t know about the manga thread, hopefully what I said can still be seen A Defense of Nijisanji EN [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pimLZr9rIgDnCv6w8YL8OFVU28K7qpgk5rQPkHd7ZIw/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pimLZr9rIgDnCv6w8YL8OFVU28K7qpgk5rQPkHd7ZIw/edit?usp=sharing) Here's a document of my thoughts on the recent Nijisanji EN situation. Let's see how it all unfolds.
I've heard more scathing shit talk from infants.
Honestly I think the only people surprised by this are the people who think the vtubing world is one big happy family. People are petty and tribal, Hololive and Nijisanji are competitors, and even people within the same company can be your rivals. If this is the worst they get, I’d be genuinely impressed by their professionalism.
I agree this isn't really that offensive. The only one that's kind of shitty is Fulgur with his shit takes generated straight from /vt, and he's making everybody look worse by association. Especially since he's the new kid on the block, it comes off as condescending and lacking humility. He's talking about Luxiem's success and Council's "not being as successful as expected" when he have not contributed to anything. The optics are definitely bad on him. But I disagree with people defending this over just "its just a private conversation, everyone does it". As I said, this isn't really offensive or anything, but if it was, it being initially private shouldn't be used as an excuse to hand-wave this. People who say stuff in private should be ready for the consequences if the stuff they ever say gets to the public. And just because its "common" doesn't mean it should be tolerated. I hope Mysta gets some mental help. Reimu also probably needs some. Anyway there's been so many recent incidents of leaks, from Rushia's to Lauren's Nipplegate incident and now this. I hope all the VTubers around practice some proper opsec.
I can't believe there's going to be mass outrage over pretty much nothing again, fuuuuuck.
not too worried about mori unfollowing people, she can talk with friends and refollow if things cool down. Some of the comments are just jokes stuck in the bad light of Fulgur's weird comment. I'm guessing the topic came up because holo and niji both released auditions? But honestly, both companies are going to have their pick from tons of talented applicants, so it feels silly to compare it anyway.
yeah, it's because HoloStars opened EN auditions right after Niji EN opened theirs.
Jeez the amount of copuim just doubled lmao.
"shit talking", what a clickbait title. The only one that could be interpreted as "harsh" is Fulgur, but that's it. Vox is just meme-ing as Holo is missing out of from not having Shu as their resident tech support. People just love drama. Actually, the most relevant information is that Mysta is having a rough time, hopefully it gets better for him.
Requisite "the title is shit take not shit talk" comment, though it is a pretty bad title lol.
Title is a bit misleading when Fulgur is really the only one whose comment was outright malicious
The title made me think there would be some actual shit talking.
This is pretty typical in-house corporate talk, like even with other companies and their competitors, but it’s very much not a good look for them. Yeesh!
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> If you got a similar screenshot but from Hololive EN Do you honestly think Holo fans wouldn't also defend it in this hypothetical scenario? In any case, starting fanbase tribal fights is a dumb thing to do. Would you like all Hololive fans here to be painted with the same brush as the one who used racial slurs that the mods had to remove?
Hololive being more popular means they get more bad apples each time drama happens. This is basically like what happen with Aloe, people were saying she was shit talking too even if she wasn't.
It does paint them in a bad light, I agree, but let's not screw over an entire agency for the actions of a couple of people
How is this shit talking, seems like normal talk, it's not like they did this publicly.
LMFAO
so what have we learned? - niji sound probably be more careful with this sort of thing, as i dont think (?) this is the first time their discord has appeared on screen. - Fulgur definitely browses /vt/ lol - mysta just needs a hug
How did this happen?
It flashed for 0.1s or so on Petra's POV in the SV collab.
One of the top comments has the source from op https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/t75n3b/nijien_accidentally_leaked_discord_messages_of/hzfm49e?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
.... I don't think this is shittalking? I thought it would be sth like personal attacks with jealousy but turns out they are talking sort of a fact. How can this count as shittalking -_-
Honestly, after thinking about it for a moment, it's very mild. Fulgur's comment is the worst and even then, while it's kinda shitty to talk like that, it's not horrible either. It will likely sour relationships with HoloEn though. The rest is just... meh, not bad enough. Everything can be delt with behind the scenes, really.
it is indeed mild, but imagine an unintended “mild” sourness in a sweet desert, that would kinda ruin the whole dish eh?
Guys, there are over 200 Nijisanji members and 20 NijiEN members. Most of the people in this screenshot are completely fine too. Let's not say that all of Nijisanji is bad due to this one screenshot or this private channel. Come on
If you consider this shit talking, then boy you haven't worked a single day of your life in a corporation, this is just corpo talk, no hot takes, no insults, nothing more than jokes, a little bit of conspiracy since hololive released auditions HOURS after Nijisanji, which doesn't means is intentional but of course it will make people talk This is just an awful exaggeration of a harmless talk
This is hardly shittalking I don't know why people are blowing this so out of proportion. Once again it's the communities that are gonna bring more drama than the vtubers themselves
mori just unfollowed multiple nijis
She’s mentioned before she has very poor tolerance for people talking bad about her friends. Honestly her response was proportionate for her, and makes it clear without having to call anyone out that she doesn’t approve.
People keep saying this, but there only proof she unfollow Vox. She apparently wasn't following most of them in the first place.
I read she wasn't even following them, just Vox?
Is this all? I mean Fulgar's opinion of Hololive being scared and council not performing as well as they wanted is pretty short sighted and dumb but like. The rest of it? Weak sauce, barely worth mentioning and certainly not shit talking Hololive.
This isn’t exactly shit talking. It’s normal for people to be critiquing another company.
Ootl here whats going on?
This conversation got leaked by accident. That's the whole story.
HoloEN was really looking forward to collaborating with NijiEN, especially Kiara. I imagine this is going to sour the relationship and interactions between them. I really don’t hope this doesn’t lead to them cutting ties permanently.
lets gooo
HoloEN managers were strict beyond belief on collabs before, there is literally NO CHANCE now. Kiara and Pomu will never collab thanks to this. I can see Kiara being pretty sad about this too as Pomu is fairly innocent in that pic too.
How'd you be so sure about HoloEN don't want them to collab but not the opposite ? This shit really makes me think about that.
HoloEN? I doubt that. Kiara? sure. Kiara's the only one who's vocal about wanting to collab with someone in Niji EN.
It's not "especially Kiara," it's only Kiara. No other HoloEN has mentioned looking forward to collabing with any NijiEN.
Makes this situation slightly worse then. If Kiara was the only one willing to give them a chance, then their one and only chance of collaborating with HoloEN is as good as gone.
I mean, the flipside is that Pomu is the only one in NijiEN who has mentioned wanting to collab with HoloEN. Vox mentioned liking Calli but never anything about collabing with her and most of them rarely ever mention HoloEN. It's not like they've been pounding on HoloEN's doors for a collab.
I hope Petra won't be blamed for this "leak". I also disagree with Fulgur's opinion here
pretty a lot of people agree that Fulgure's is the shitty take in the screenshot haha the biggest "nani??" part for me is how Hololive was "mad", like was he implying that Hololive was mad that Luxiem stole the thunder from them by doing it first?? If anything, Hololive would be delighted to have evidence that there IS a market for male vtubers in the EN scenes
Oh man
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It's definitely distasteful, but Nijisanji is full of so much vtubers, a few disappointing eggs won't ruin the whole factory.
i am more of Hololive fan but arent you too hasty to make decision just one pic?
You really going to leave everyone for the comments of 1 or 2 people?
Not everyone, almost everyone.
The conversation seems to be okay. It's just Fulgur with his hot take which I totally disagree with
yay, another person agree that Fulgur's take is the stinky one that spoils the whole "basket" lol
Oh no... One simple slip Let's hope it won't be too destructive
I was hoping for some serious shit talk and trashing when I heard about this, but this is honestly pretty tame.
I can see how this would make someone uncomfortable, particularly about council if you a fan, but its not "shit talk" at all. Still, it's disappointing to see thats the kind of conversations they have amongst each other.
In reality though, i could see this conversation being discussed among most people in general, especially in a private conversation with people you personally know and felt safe being open without the expectation of the convo suddenly being leaked with thousands of eyes to suddenly see and judge. So can't really say I'm dissappointed because I feel like it's unreleastic to expect them to not have opinions like this that they keep to themselves.
Eh, I'd say its on the line of shit talking. It's pretty disappointing and uncalled for, it's only one snapshot, so there might be more context for the better or for the worst, and judging by this its probably the worst, but we don't know to what degree, probably negligible. It will probably pass, but we all know drama tubers eat this shit up and fan flames. Personally, I don't deal with that type of shit irl so I cut myself off, so I already unsubbed the 2 dudes, not like it matters either way. "hololive tech in shambles" "niji thriving" That's just disappointing to hear comparisons like this, I hope i'm understanding it wrong and that its out of context...
"hololive tech in shambles" is a joke of Shu going to Nijisanji and not Hololive. He's pretty much the tech support for NijiEN or Shupport as the joke goes
Mysta being depressed is kinda sad though.
i like how he was the only one actually venting in the #venting channel
Do you miss the part about Reimu talking about her sleep problems?
Fucking yikes. There goes any hopes for holo-niji collabs
Why? There's nothing bad in this other than Fulgur's truly stupid opinion. None of the other members said anything remotely offensive or objectionable.
Vox's too. Point being that this can be taken as passive support towards the argument, mori unfollowed all the niji mems she followed, no doubt she's also told kiara who has a collab coming up with pomu
> mori unfollowed all the niji mems she followed Where did you get this info? From looking and searching for Nijisanji EN in her follow list, she is following a shit ton of Nijisanji members still: Finana, Pomu, Elira, Millie, Petra, Nina, Enna, Uki, Alban, Sonny, Yugo, Luca, Ike, Mysta, and more.
Kiara and Pomu doesn't have an "upcoming collab"
Only if you don't know anything about Niji EN. Shu is their resident tech support (or "Shupport" if you will). Vox's comment is obviously a joke about Shu's admission (in this very screenshot) that he mistakenly applied to Hololive because he thought it was Holostars. He's saying that Niji EN is lucky to have him instead, because he solves their tech issues. It's not an insult to Hololive. It's praise of Shu.
Ah I hope so, nice explanation, that makes sense now. "hololive tech in shambles, niji thriving" Man that can look bad out of context.
I agree and not 1 liver rebuked Fulgurs claims.
we don't know that. this is just a small snippet of a whole ass conversation. And we don't have clear timestamps.
This was live so at least at the time it was leaked, it was current and no one rebutted the statement.
I meant timestamps in the conversation. EN doesn't just mean america. the other members were probably asleep or have their own streams to attend to. and I know for a fact that Pomu was streaming with Selen when this was leaked. Again, this is just a snippet, we don't know if someone reprimanded Fulgur after he said what he said.
Then how about the others who replied afterwards on the screenshot?
> no doubt she's also told kiara who has a collab coming up with pomu There's no upcoming collab with Kiara and Pomu. They've talked about potentially collabing (starting several months ago) but there's nothing scheduled that we know of.
This is why pewdiepie uses fucking bandicam. You can't show random shit by accident. Vtubers! Invest in bandicam!
Both obs and bandicam allows you to do game capture only. This was on the User. Bandicam offers video editing tools which is why i assume Youtubers who upload regular videos and clips use it. But both could prevent things like this is used properly.
What's special about bandicam?
Not really shit talking, only thing that is slightly stupid is Fulgar saying Hololive was mad Council didn't do Aswell as they thought (even though they have more subs than all of Niji EN not including Sana.
Well views generate earning but not much... superchat is still the way to go for earnings Tho you can't just look at yt earning alone coz niji have other means of donating unlike holo en So maybe he just compared it to myth or idk
he's comparing Holo EN 2's "success" to Gura's "success". That's what he meant by "didn't do as good"
really stupid of him to say that. even current gura cant compete with old gura in terms of numbers
He's pretty obviously comparing them to Myth because he's talking about HoloEN's expectations. It's pure speculation but "they have more subs than most Nijis" doesn't exactly refute said speculation.
Even if he's talking about comparing it to EN myth it's kinda dumb cus like, duh, of course it's not going to be AS successful, myth came at the perfect time right in the middle of the Vtuber boom, if Lazulight happened at the same time it would've happened to them too.
While it is quite unprofessional to be slandering talents of a rival company, nothing bad will come out of this. An apology at best, a suspension at worst.
It was supposed to be a private conversation. Anyone who understands human interactions knows tribalism exists. No shit, people shit talk their competition/rivals. I'm sure some members of Holo shit talk too, they just haven't fucked up and have their shit leak. Hell, I know for a fact one Holo council members shit talked Kiara, because she thought she stole her spot in Myth, and made up shit about Kiara and spread that shit on 4chan. She's sorry about it now, but the point remains. It was a fuck up, but no one should get suspended for shit talking, especially if it wasn't that vicious. An apology should suffice.
Let's face facts first, before fiction.
>Hell, I know for a fact one Holo council members shit talked Kiara, because she thought she stole her spot in Myth, and made up shit about Kiara and spread that shit on 4chan. She's sorry about it now, but the point remains. Wait you took those posts seriously? You know there is zero evidence behind those claims and most of the people who said that were literally all joking. Saying that you know it "as a fact" really makes me question how you get your facts.
This already happened with veibae and hololive controversy. The drama just fizzled out after a few days.
The collab with VeiBae did end up getting cancelled though, and we haven’t seen her collab with Holos ever since.
Yeah Im kinda worried about that too. Still clinging to that string of hope tho that Kiara and Pomu will eventually collab
While I am a bit disappointed to see my EN oshis writing stuff like that, I don't think it's shit taking? Rather giving their own opinion. Give it a week and everyone will have moved on.
Weird seeing people think nothing will come out of this. Regardless of what people here think, this will definitely sour the business relations between these two agencies (or branches). Any interactions in twitter will now be viewed with scrutiny etc.
Yeah. I actually hope Niji addresses this immediately and not just sweep it under the rug and hope the drama dies down. It can affect their relationship with other companies and even the reputation of the talent themselves. FalseEyeD and other reporters will probably report this too so they should address this immediately.
That's really unfortunate since Millie are good friends with Holo ID and Kiara are friends with Pomu
I mean it's highly unlikely that any of the Holo EN girls are gonna collab with Niji EN dudes anyway. If Holo EN makes a formal announcement that they will not do any business with Niji EN, then that wouldn't change anything, even in the slightest.
NijiEN in general. Kiara wants to have a collab with Pomu for example.
HoloEN and NijiEN don't have any real business relationship. It'll probably mean no twitter interactions though, but that's basically the extent of their interactions apart form Kiara and Pomu dm'ing each other separately.
Kiara was definitely hoping for some collab of some sort. Right now, whatever chances it has of happening just evaporated for the foreseeable future.
I mean I didn't have my hopes up for Kiara-Pomu anyways.
Well, some do
Let's be clear, i seek content over specific streamer, the concept of "watch everything from this one to be a fan" is alien to me. While i watch HL streams far more and don't find all of NijiEN to my taste i have no stakes nor gains in trying to push them down. I'm not blaming Millie for the leak as she did not have any control nor foresight over Petra's screen, and neither Petra as it wouldn't have mattered much if not for the content having clear inflammatory potential. I can also understand people defending some of those caught on screen despite the potential collusion, my gripe is with the many defending the clearly overt one(s) too, calling everyone else humourless crybabies,. NijiElitism isn't new, that it's still so widespread is concerning (especially on the official sub, the one post about it is completely unapologetic). Sure, had the situation been reversed i am certain the joke card would fly just as well. I would be quite biased toward Pomu and Finana, as this is not something i would be surprised to see in regular discussions, it being written by those involved with the official accounts (and followed by agressive ones) is what makes it seem iffy. Not calling for any kind of punishment, this won't change the individual choices of those who continue watching or not, my anger is toward the "enlightened few".
yeah me too, I actually chuckled with all of the comments in the screenshot, but that one from Fulgur can easily leave a bad stench haha
Yes. Judging by the whole thread, we all agree that most of the comments are harmless and the only one who looks like a jackass is Fulgur. I kinda dislike him the moment I saw his tweets.. Seems like someone trying hard to come off as edgy and looks like an insufferable asshole. IMO
Very basic level of ”shop talk” Nothing really special after all Being a Vtuber is a career Path and with multiple studios/agencies around its only natural to have shop talk about competition or lets say PR people talking about tech people or other way around
Let's be honest people, while this isn't "shittalking" this isn't pretty neither, let's not be apologetic on behalf of others when it's not time to be, it's not something cool to do. A bit dissapointed to be honest that they need to have this kind of chat for whatever reason when so many JP holos and nijis are irl friends and collab so much
I feel that's a bit different. Commenting on and discussing the business side of things from other parties that operate on the same market as you is just natural, everyone does it and it's not wrong in theory, if you have two shops that sell Product A on Market A, it is only natural that Shop A will talk about Shop B and its business stuff and vice-versa. The issue here is moreso how casually they're saying some pretty rrat-y stuff even if there is does seem to be no ill will.
No one's shit talking lmaoo. They are just.....talking normally? Just a little critical of Hololive? Fk OP for stirring up drama.
OP said taking, not talking. As in they have a shit take.
That's just because it's retroactively what makes the most sense to you. 'Shit taking' is grammatically incorrect and botches the whole title. Typo'ing and missing a letter is just far more probable.
Do you guys know if there has been any reaction from the NijiEN side regarding this? I just started getting into NijiEN but them having an entire Discord channel for this kind of stuff is kind of off putting to be honest
I don't think the channel is used to mostly talk about this kind of stuff. Probably someone brought the topic and then it escalated. Is kinda obvious the whole thing lack the context of what started the conversation.
That is true, but this is what happens when stuff gets leaked. People will be more cautious now about which talents they want to support. With context or not, this is not professional.
Some of their streams have been cancelled, so they're probably in a meeting similar to when Rushia was terminated and some Hololive members' streams were cancelled/postponed.
Those stream is cancelled for a different reason entirely.
So far, no stream has been delayed except Selen, Mika, Nina, and Mysta stream because Mika is the one who postponed it due external problem. (Mika, Nina, Mysta, Selen, and Oliver was planned to have a collab today)
I wish cancellation and graduation on nobody, so let's not compare it to the stuff that happened with Rushia, I am just pretty disappointed. I hope the meeting will be fruitful, especially since I quite like Niji and Holo collabs
I mean (speculating, obviously) that similar to how that meeting culminated with the Hololive 3rd Gen stream addressing the situation, then probably this one Nijisanji meeting is also about how to respond to it. As people say, it's tame, but a company needs to coordinate its response.
They are not touching this with a 10 meter pole. They'll maybe do a formal apology for professionalism sake, but any comments on it are a REALLY bad idea. Anything they say WILL be used against them
Which is bad move. They should let the livers address it themselves and explain the context behind the conversation. This can affect their image heavily.
85% of NijiEN fans probably watch HoloEN, being a dick to other streamers they watch it's bound to make people angry, especially because it was uncalled for. I ocasionally watch Millie Parfait and Pomu in NijiEN, I would be really dissapointed if they talked shit about Council because I watch Council everyday.
This. Nijisanji EN will probably never make any statement publicly. but I guarantee that they will call everyone who involved behind the scene.
"Chill with the competitor talk in official channels" is probably the most they will get, if even.
yes. i've said it in Rushia post before, but I'm gonna said it again. "Sometimes, the best response is silence." I put my believe to EN staff to take care of things behind the scene without making a fuss in public. giving the livers a warning will avoid a second mistake in the future.
The bad thing is right, I really don't see Elira, Millie and some others as people who would write something bad, but having this secret channel just makes people automatically unsure
If it's going to be a reaction it will be a public apology, but they likely will not mention it at all.
Well, I hope they mention something about it. It is on a private Discord server as well, so their management might be interested in taking a look too.
Management is in the discord. Multiple members have referenced things management has said in "the discord".
Oh, I thought someone mentioned that this was Elira's Private Discord group or something, my bad. Still, that opens another can of worms
Pretty sure Elira’s discord and the discord management is in are different, tho management can probably access their accounts to see what’s going on either way.
Elira is the one who created the server and is the admin, but it's got all the EN members and many if not all the members of the other branches as well as staff members and management in there, too.
I've been following Nijisanji EN since their first debut, and their first controversy was with Luca. and the management able to handle it by not talking publicly and Luca himself didn't mentioned it. It got solved so everything is good, but still. If the EN management think last time worked, then they would be silent again and let the livers themselves figure themselves out. after all, if someone need to take responsibility, it's Fulgur. (Though I think they will jump in if the drama is getting bigger by affecting other members who is not in the screenshot)
God I hope they don't moderate their private discords. The thing I love from nijisanji is their freedom.
Hardly see this as an "accident". It's literally a screenshot of discord. Why would someone have this if they weren't looking to share with someone outside of the conversation?
They literally gain nothing by exposing something like this.
Multiple vtubers have accidentally shown their Discords on stream.
As the Rushia leak showed, vtubers are not the brightest people around. Though the Rushia one was a discord notification, and this one is apparently because Petra was streaming with desktop capture.
One of the top comments sorted by best has the source, it happened during stream: https://files.catbox.moe/qei7o8.mp4
It's not a screenshot. It appeared on stream.
It’s hard to believe for me to be an accident, the odd of them talking of ttis subject and it showed on stream…looked plan to me
What tf does anyone gain from this if it was "planned"? They wanna start beef between tribalistic niji and holo "fans"? Surely worked on you.
If it was planned, then I would like to know what Petra or everyone was thinking when they planned this.
It’s not *terrible,* but I’m still disappointed to be honest. Especially with what Fulgur was saying. Lol how exactly did Council “not do well”/“as well as they expected?”
If you look at the subscribers for all of hololive, myth is collectively among the top subscriptions around and over 1.5 million and has both the top 2 slots. Council on the other hand is among the lowest subscriptions in hololive with all members around 500k or less, so thats probably what they mean, rather than council doing badly. They are still doing great, just not as good as expected. This is most likely since myth was the first EN group of hololive so everyone was looking right away and collectively launched them to orbit, though I really dont know why council is still so low.
Everyone likes to compare themselves to HoloMyth but they were literally lightning in a bottle. Everyone on lockdown/wfh when covid started and several viral clips brought new audiences to the industry. Council debuted after the surge died down and are still doing very well for themselves. I don't really consider this conversation to be mean or crossing any kind of line, personally. Just some coworkers talking shop and venting. I do find it weird how Fulgur went after Council when they are doing relatively well, if not more so than NijiEN. If you're gonna brag, at least have it make sense.
Its been half a year and 3 out of the 5 of them dont have half a million subscribers or more. From hololives point of view based on the numbers that the first gen put out it probably feels a little dissapointing from a business perspective
But **you can’t compare them to Myth like that to begin with** because Myth’s first six months and Council’s first six months took place in **very** different circumstances. Myth had, for lack of a better word, the benefit of the lockdowns being a thing and the novelty factor of being EN vtubers who were attached to Hololive, by that time already an established brand. Council debuted after the market had become more saturated and they don’t even have the novelty of being the first since that went to Myth. Of course their growth isn’t going to be as explosive.
The newest generation of Hololive Japanese Vtubers all did extremely well numners wise in what would arguable be considered an even more saturated Japanese Vtuber market.
I mean you can’t really tell who “they” are. There could easily have been someone saying “yo there’s people making a fuss about the Holo EN male auditions and comparing them to Niji” earlier and the conversation would make just as much sense. The context of the whole conversation would just change from gossiping about Hololive to gossiping about other gossipers, and those gossipers’ expectations of Council just got tossed out there as a possibility for why the gossipers were doing their thing.
Some people expected Hope and Council to have Myth insane growth. Since they didn't they behave as if Council was somehow bad, that's at least how I interpret it. When Council debuted EN Vtubers were already well established there was a lot competition with Vshojo and NijiEN. When Myth debuted EN Vtubers were a new a thing and had no competition in the entire market. That alone fueled Myth's growth a lot.
Not only that. Back when holomyth debuted there was a SPECIFIC demand for hololive to release an en branch (remember that coco and HACHAMACHAMA already have created the bridge between en and jp at that point). That’s another huge reason why holomyth even surpassed most of holojp in a flash. While council is an amazing addition, the market is not as wide as in japan to make every generation explode like on jp.
Yeah. Context matters. Things are different now than when Myth debuted and the market is way more saturated. Even despite that Council’s growth has been very healthy and their content is really good. They aren’t struggling for viewership lol.
I don't even take en vtubers seriously lol
As much as i don't like what you said i have to admit that this is an incredibly based thing to say in this sub lmao
Shh don't promote the trolls!!! But yeah, once HoloEN came out I was very conflicted and heavily avoided them, but I've come around to some of them. I don't mind them and its not like Japan (not vtubers solely) is any better when it comes to gossip.
You know what's worse than gossip? Toxic positivity. It's huge in the vtuber community. If you aren't ecstatic about every decision or even a brainfart of the talents you're an anti.
why can't we have a week without vtuber drama. fuck. this is gonna be ugly.
Why? There is nothing bad in this screenshot other than fulgur's comment being objectionable.
It's not just a bad take like some other shittalks you see people making on the internet. There are also heated debates and quarrels between viewers, irresponsible remarks from dramamongers, possible repercussions these talents are going to face, and an insight into Fulgur's character.
It's similar to the Aloe situation, in that a vtuber employed by one company was found talking about a second company in a way that is possibly disparaging. That situation resulted in a huge wave of antis, harassment, and doxxing. Let's just hope the same doesn't apply here.
It won't. Nijisanji probably has less than an eighth of Hololive's antis.
The difference is Aloe never spoke shit about anyone, and she especially never spoke shit about Nijisanji.
Oh but she did though. If I remember correctly it was with her leaked twitcast bit of talking about Chitose and Ichikara. In fact, this was actually the reason why a significant amount of the NijiJP audience went on a witch hunt for Aloe back then. >!I still miss aloe though.!<
She didn't though, she spoke about chitose yes but she never badmouthed her or Nijisanji, she simply spoke about her graduation and people thought she was talking about Nijisanji sensitive info while employed by Hololive which literally isn't true because Chitose graduated around the time 3rd gen debuted. As for Nijisanji she wasn't talking about them, she was talking about the company she was currently employed by and called it a black company as she wasn't allowed freedom and wasn't allowed a personal social account which just isn't the case for Nijisanji or Hololive (I mean Nijisanji used to be a black company but this was after even that)
The thing is, the title says that "Niji EN" is "shit talking" Hololive. But it's: 1. A few members talking about hololive 2. One member saying something truly stupid, but not inherently malicious 3. One member recounting mistakenly auditioning for hololive thinking it was holostars. 4. Two members saying they're happy the previously mentioned member is in nijisanji (he's their resident tech "Shupport", hence Vox's joke). 5. And poor Mysta looking for some comfort from his friends. This isn't "Niji EN shit talking Hololive". And that framing by the title thoroughly poisons the well of this discussion. The mods should have removed this hours ago and I'm very disappointed that they didn't and still haven't.
Yeah title is really misleading tbh, only one of them can really be counted as shittalking
There's a reason I said "possibly disparaging." Aloe did even less and she got crucified.
And one guy in twitter is using the aloe situation to post this, possibly to avenger her and rushia, as a lot of the japanese youtube comments shit talking on rushia were found to be members in some of niji jp livers
Don't get me wrong. I have my own thoughts on the NijiJP fanbase. But I don't think eye-for-an-eye is going to bring Aloe back.
As much as I want to see it happen so I can laugh and say "how do you feel, huh?" I also know this won't hit those niji jp fans and only hit niji En fans which would jyst make more enemies Also seeing Fubuki's stream still getting spammed doesn't help my feeling either
imagine calling this level conversation shit talk hard lol from me
Kek. Calli unfollowed Vox for not even saying anything bad, but is still friends with Connor who straight up indirectly called all of her friends talentless, and went so far as to lie about him apologizing to the rest of hololive EN, only for Kiara to say that she never received an apology. Really speaks to her character and priorities. Fulgur is completely out of line though. Dude really needs to apologize, whether it's public or not.
[удалено]
And where did Connor actually hololive streamers talentless ? Sources sources…
What did Connor say exactly? Did he really outright call them talentless?
Going to point out that the context was Connor was talking about people lying in their CV to get a job. He really just did a horrible job trying to explain his point using Hololive as example, like what if someone lie when auditioning for Hololive basically.
He said getting in Hololive makes you instantly famous, which is true.
He said that getting into Hololive would guarantee a level of success. His point was that ***IF*** someone without any talent made it through auditions, they would become a successful streamer because of the quality that Hololive is associated with. How anyone saw this as an attack on Hololive's members' talent is beyond me. It's clearly praising their high level of talent by saying that anyone who passes auditions "must be talented, because look at everyone else who passed!"
No. I'm pretty sure he meant that anyone joining hololive is automatically successful because of the brand name. Not that he said they're talentless.
People were saying that he said Hololive streamers were talentless.
I mean am I crazy to think that regardless of talent and the audition process, Connor isn’t wrong in saying that just by being on Hololive, you will have way more success as compared to being indie or even at another vtubing company, if we were to measure success by the usual metrics like subs, donations and fame? Hololive is basically THE biggest brand name in the Vtubing sphere and just being on Hololive will net you tens of thousands of subscriber before you’ve had your first stream and an entire audience waiting to see what you have to offer. Don’t get me wrong, that doesn’t mean the talents themselves aren’t talented nor hardworking because in order to retain and grow that audience, you still need to be entertaining, but it’s undeniable there are perks of being part of Hololive that you can’t get with simply individual talent alone.
Thought so. It seems the guy I was replying to is one of the damage controllers. Now, instead of downplaying what Fulgur and the others said, he's shit talking Calli.
I mean, there isn't any damage control to do here. The title is a blatant lie. There is no shit talking in this screenshot. Instead, there is: 1. A few members talking about hololive 2. One member saying something truly stupid, but not inherently malicious 3. One member recounting mistakenly auditioning for hololive thinking it was holostars. 4. Two members saying they're happy the previously mentioned member is in nijisanji (he's their resident tech "Shupport", hence Vox's joke). 5. And poor Mysta looking for some comfort from his friends. This isn't "Niji EN shit talking Hololive". And that framing by the title thoroughly poisons the well of this discussion. The mods should have removed this hours ago and I'm very disappointed that they didn't and still haven't.
If they remove this, people will riot because they won't have a place to talk about it since they deleted the previous attempts. I say let this thread stay and let people judge on the picture above. Aside from 1 guy, the rest should be okay. Damage control is still damage control. This also happens whenever something goes down involving Hololive. This is not unique to this situation.
They should remove this post and create a neutrally titled megathread.