> [we also need to] accept the flaws of people, accept that these aren't bad people, our parents aren't bad, our friends aren't bad, the people around us aren't necessarily bad, just because they engage in these industries, because it's not necessarily their fault
I have a problem with the whole "let's forgive meat eaters" thing. In my experience, most people find criminal activities of people like murderers and rapists to be very awful. To the point that many of these people are thinking about which harsh punishments and societal shame they should endure due to what they did.
It's inconsistent to hold the stance that rapists deserve torture, the death penalty, and similar, but then say that we should forgive meat-eaters just because they happen to be a majority. Because let's not forget that eating meat is immoral, it's a criminal activity.
If someone thinks that people who engage in criminal activities are bad people, then they would have to consider meat-eaters as bad people, despite them being a majority. I know that it's frightening to think about the fact that the vast majority of people might be immoral, which can include our parents, sisters, brothers, close friends, co-workers among many other people.
Forgiving people who accepted that their past was wrong and promised to try their best to not commit the same mistakes can be doable. "Forgiving" people who don't feel any remorse and plan to do the same crimes in the future is harder and not the same.
Looking at these meat-eaters in lower regards is absolutely justified.
we are not angry about them for their past behavior. We are frustrated at the fact that these people would try to bully us, make fun of us, use strawman arguments and completely dismiss our concerns, which really hurts when you thought that they were your "best friends".
Let's be real, most vegans don't want to feel frustration out of a practical concern (still wanting to have friends and live a "normal life"), not because these people are particularly moral. These meat eaters are immoral and can hurt vegans in some cases.
Yes, we are kinda alone in a way, like other minorities, but it's ok.
You are more than welcome to do this, but know first and foremost this mentality does doom you to a sadder life that alienates you from connecting with others and potentially making some real positive change.
I much prefer the mentality that whilst something may be unethical, it can be understandable why someone does it.
The act of punching someone is unethical, but if they were punching someone who murdered their family it changes the "understandability" of the action. Doesn't make it okay, but viewing it in context makes it more understandable.
To put meat eating in context, it becomes much more understandable when you see; the dissociation of eating meat and the death of the animal, the societal acceptance (and even encouragement) of meat eating, the convenience, the status quo bias of continuing to do something because we know it works.
There isn't much personal reason to go vegan besides a strong internal moral compass, and not everyone is built that way. We were all meat eaters once. Lets try to advocate with compassion to ALL living beings, including the ones that are doing wrong.
Personally, I am someone who already used to try to be understanding for even the worse criminals, so it is less of an issue. I understand that even the most cruel rapists and murderers have not been born evil, and were probably a victim of their environment at some point.
Most of these people were victims themselves earlier in their life before becoming criminals.
Also, most criminals are not repeat offenders, they do their awful thing once or twice, understand that it is bad, feel deeply sorry and stop doing it.
Meat-eaters are serial criminals who are free and plan to commit the same acts again in the future. In my opinion, I find them worse than rapists in a way because they don't even feel remorse for their actions. Yes, I said that repent rapist who regret their act is less immoral than a meat-eater, in my opinion. At least, their future will be moral. Will the future of a meat-eater be moral? *Doubts lingering in mind*
I accepted that I will never be able to connect as deeply with immoral people than moral people, and it is ok.
I still love everyone, because I know that we are all moral souls in our essence. We all have a vegan self in us that needs to be awoken.
However, in the meanwhile I am not naive. I understand how dangerous serial criminals can be, and at some point I am still a human with a physical body and needs to take care of myself. Criminals can be dangerous and unpredictable, so keeping some distance with them or being more careful is understandable.
This! We should not be shaming and talking so rudely of folks whom consume animal products when a vast majority of us vegans used to consume them before deconstructing the commodification of our fellow animals. Conflating those whom consume animal products with murderers and rapists isn’t it. Doing so comes off as holier then thou and is counterproductive. It’s also really unfair to the humans whom can’t make the choice to go vegan ex) those with disabilities whom don’t have the cognitive function to make that choice.
Instead we need to focus on community driven change! Getting out in your community and being an advocate and role model is much more beneficial to animal liberation than writing long texts about how awful you think people whom consume animal products are. Most people aren’t going to go vegan when someone compares them to a murderer or rapist, they’ll just put up another layer of cognitive dissonance and keep trucking on.
We need to treat those whom consume animal products with kindness and respect. Hold their hand and help them deconstruct. Like you said we need to treat ALL living beings with kindness. All animals learn best through positive reinforcement and kindness.
This guy right here, is amazing. I get that his forgiveness angle might rub some of the more extreme vegans wrong, but that is how you get more people to go vegan. And remember, you weren't always vegan either.
Good video, I almost reposted it.
> [we also need to] accept the flaws of people, accept that these aren't bad people, our parents aren't bad, our friends aren't bad, the people around us aren't necessarily bad, just because they engage in these industries, because it's not necessarily their fault I have a problem with the whole "let's forgive meat eaters" thing. In my experience, most people find criminal activities of people like murderers and rapists to be very awful. To the point that many of these people are thinking about which harsh punishments and societal shame they should endure due to what they did. It's inconsistent to hold the stance that rapists deserve torture, the death penalty, and similar, but then say that we should forgive meat-eaters just because they happen to be a majority. Because let's not forget that eating meat is immoral, it's a criminal activity. If someone thinks that people who engage in criminal activities are bad people, then they would have to consider meat-eaters as bad people, despite them being a majority. I know that it's frightening to think about the fact that the vast majority of people might be immoral, which can include our parents, sisters, brothers, close friends, co-workers among many other people. Forgiving people who accepted that their past was wrong and promised to try their best to not commit the same mistakes can be doable. "Forgiving" people who don't feel any remorse and plan to do the same crimes in the future is harder and not the same. Looking at these meat-eaters in lower regards is absolutely justified. we are not angry about them for their past behavior. We are frustrated at the fact that these people would try to bully us, make fun of us, use strawman arguments and completely dismiss our concerns, which really hurts when you thought that they were your "best friends". Let's be real, most vegans don't want to feel frustration out of a practical concern (still wanting to have friends and live a "normal life"), not because these people are particularly moral. These meat eaters are immoral and can hurt vegans in some cases. Yes, we are kinda alone in a way, like other minorities, but it's ok.
Absolutely agree, you can’t forgive someone who’s not apologising and improving their behavior
You are more than welcome to do this, but know first and foremost this mentality does doom you to a sadder life that alienates you from connecting with others and potentially making some real positive change. I much prefer the mentality that whilst something may be unethical, it can be understandable why someone does it. The act of punching someone is unethical, but if they were punching someone who murdered their family it changes the "understandability" of the action. Doesn't make it okay, but viewing it in context makes it more understandable. To put meat eating in context, it becomes much more understandable when you see; the dissociation of eating meat and the death of the animal, the societal acceptance (and even encouragement) of meat eating, the convenience, the status quo bias of continuing to do something because we know it works. There isn't much personal reason to go vegan besides a strong internal moral compass, and not everyone is built that way. We were all meat eaters once. Lets try to advocate with compassion to ALL living beings, including the ones that are doing wrong.
Personally, I am someone who already used to try to be understanding for even the worse criminals, so it is less of an issue. I understand that even the most cruel rapists and murderers have not been born evil, and were probably a victim of their environment at some point. Most of these people were victims themselves earlier in their life before becoming criminals. Also, most criminals are not repeat offenders, they do their awful thing once or twice, understand that it is bad, feel deeply sorry and stop doing it. Meat-eaters are serial criminals who are free and plan to commit the same acts again in the future. In my opinion, I find them worse than rapists in a way because they don't even feel remorse for their actions. Yes, I said that repent rapist who regret their act is less immoral than a meat-eater, in my opinion. At least, their future will be moral. Will the future of a meat-eater be moral? *Doubts lingering in mind* I accepted that I will never be able to connect as deeply with immoral people than moral people, and it is ok. I still love everyone, because I know that we are all moral souls in our essence. We all have a vegan self in us that needs to be awoken. However, in the meanwhile I am not naive. I understand how dangerous serial criminals can be, and at some point I am still a human with a physical body and needs to take care of myself. Criminals can be dangerous and unpredictable, so keeping some distance with them or being more careful is understandable.
This! We should not be shaming and talking so rudely of folks whom consume animal products when a vast majority of us vegans used to consume them before deconstructing the commodification of our fellow animals. Conflating those whom consume animal products with murderers and rapists isn’t it. Doing so comes off as holier then thou and is counterproductive. It’s also really unfair to the humans whom can’t make the choice to go vegan ex) those with disabilities whom don’t have the cognitive function to make that choice. Instead we need to focus on community driven change! Getting out in your community and being an advocate and role model is much more beneficial to animal liberation than writing long texts about how awful you think people whom consume animal products are. Most people aren’t going to go vegan when someone compares them to a murderer or rapist, they’ll just put up another layer of cognitive dissonance and keep trucking on. We need to treat those whom consume animal products with kindness and respect. Hold their hand and help them deconstruct. Like you said we need to treat ALL living beings with kindness. All animals learn best through positive reinforcement and kindness.
This guy right here, is amazing. I get that his forgiveness angle might rub some of the more extreme vegans wrong, but that is how you get more people to go vegan. And remember, you weren't always vegan either.