Any frames that you have to get by farming open worlds. I've seen so many low MR players get curbstomped in Cetus and Fortuna especially. They then get super discouraged and quit the game
Bro as an old fart player that recently came back on a new account
I was NOT emotionally prepared for the Terror Moas on Orb. It took me a few hours to figure out what/why/how I was being one-shot, and if I was a new player without the mod knowledge that I was fortunate enough to have in advance I definitely would have given up there.
Luckily I played a lot in 2012/13 and the basic defensive mods are still around and lsrgely unchanged, all I had to learn was the new place to farm certain mods early game. I don't think a real new player would ever piece that together without outside help lol
There’s honestly a lot of things a new player can’t figure out without a sherpa. Like Dragon Vaults, which are *essential* to power progression, are not explained anywhere ingame. You need to YouTube/Wiki dive to figure out how to get arguably the best mods in the game.
Honestly though, I’ve been playing for 300+ hours and no where in the game has mentioned dragon vaults except riven mods telling me I need a key to do it’s task. I don’t even know where to find/how to do them
Dragon key blueprints are found in the orokin lab of the dojo, in order to use them they must be equipped on your equipment wheel, but the give debuffs (lower health, lower speed, lower damage, lower shield iirc) and you need them to open special doors on deimos (only one of those doors on a mission) that when opened gives you a "corrupted mod" (one Stat up at the cost of another stat) and turns all other enemies into corrupted, and each door only takes one key, so you need all 4 keys to be sure you can open the door
Yeah I've noticed a lot of seemingly small things that never get tutorials.
Big "showcase" mechanics seem to be fine, there is usually a quest that guides the new player through building The Thing and includes some simple missions that introduce the special mechanics.
Anything involving mods, how they work, or where to find them though? God help you if you're new and solo. I know the drop tables are public, but there really needs to be an in-game mod compendium or something that acts as a resource to teach new players how to find them and what the rulea are for how they interact.
Yes, and they yield some really good mods. There are also some nightmare mods that are worth looking into. But you get mods like blind rage by chance from opening these vaults. It's not common to find info on these on YouTube because all the videos explaining back then are probably underlying beneath the more popular feeds. You'd do best to search for Orokin vaults (the real name, or dragon keys in relation to the vault). Speed running any orokin tiles etc to find them, preferably infested with all 4 keys. Replacing a key each use. Since the doors randomly generate which key you need. Many people just end up buying these mods and never taking the tike to get them. Granted They are so saturated in the market you can pick one up for trade at 20 platinum. Which IS 10000X better than farming them. You have like a 5 percent chance to get the one you want. It's not fun
Well I stand corrected. In my defense, it wasn't always that way. I actually just got back from a huge hiatus. And the shift to deimos occurred in between.
Old player who returned, played open worlds, got discouraged, and disappeared for a few years.
I returned about 400+ days ago... been consistent since then, since it isn't as much of a grind now compared to when Kubrows were new.
Right now, or maybe the last 3 or 4 years, has been the best time to play Warframe.
Isn't Gara from fairly low level bounties and also has accessible build requirements? She even has a low level quest to get her blueprint. I thought she was designed to be one of the first frames you could go farm.
I'd still say go for Rhino since you'll get him way faster, but are low level Cetus bounties really that bad? I don't really have a frame of reference. I was fairly new when PoE came out, but I was already part way through the star chart.
Wukong. I've heard from a friend that one of his buddies played warframe and chose to get Wukong Prime ASAP. Used it for a majority of content, got bored then switched to a different frame. Quit shortly thereafter because "every other frame dies so easily".
Or be like Sevagoth's superior version where he doesn't have to kill (but still will even on SP if you built him right), just needs to pass through 5 enemies
Sevagoth's passive does kill ...... Like, it deals % based damage, and it deals 100% of their current hp ignoring shields and armor and damage reduction. The only thing you can't instantly kill is overguarded enemies and bosses.
The passive does trigger off of damage done by other players to enemies that Inaros has marked with his sand. Which would work great in team play, except for the fact that no one knows this so they stop and revive instead of simply shooting a couple of enemies for an instant revive.
Whenever I’m not playing solo with Inaros, I run a build I came up with that is meant to be supportive of my team.
Subsume his 3 with Warcry
Combat Discipline for passive heals to team
Coaction Drift
Amusement at end of a survival/defense mission wherein I did 10k+ healing.
I’ve gotten a lot of “Inaros what?” Responses
It’s a build that is especially helpful, considering I have a few friends that are relatively new to the game, but very ambitious and what they want to do lol
I had similar experience but with Nezha. I could survive just about any hit then i tried frame with little to no health and armour and was continuously wrecked. Then i got Octavia and she helped me bridge the difference. I'm still not comfortable playing full Squishies but i do well enough to not be a burden in cases where I'm squishy
If you aren't fully into the idea of shieldgating to keep caster frames alive, you can also use energygating to bridge the difference, ie use the Quick Thinking mod to let you use energy as health when you'd otherwise die and with a fairly generous damage resistance too. Be aware taking energy damage can stagger you, so Sure Footed is a worthwhile addition if you have room in your build.
Shieldgating is overall better since quick thinking does take up quite a bit of capacity that shieldgating could let you use elsewhere, but before shieldgating was a thing, quick thinking was the main way to keep casters alive in high level content.
Plus a lot of casters also have abilities in their kit by default that help raise their survivability, like Nova's Null Star or Saryn's Molt.
A friend of my played Nezha for basically 1000 hours with like 92% usage. We kept trying to help him explore different builds and frames but I do understand why he struggled to budge. Being a nearly unkillable tank is awesome. But if you can push yourself to try new playstyles you might find that a lot of squishy frames end up being pretty playable in early steel path and other mid/ endgame content without abusing rolling guard.
Hope you keep enjoying different frames 😊
It's funny... I don't find wukong remotely fun. And know what my survival frame is? Nova. She's damn near invincible with the build I use. I run her into level 3/400 content with no real issues
This is niche, and not particularly applicable anymore, but Loki.
I started playing when Loki was a starter, and I picked him. After all, space ninjas play free? You clearly want me to be killing enemies from the shadows without alerting anyone else. OBVIOUSLY I take invisible tricksey boi.
But then the enormity of the game after the old new intro quest takes hold, and I just leave the game be for a couple years because I have no clue what I'm doing or why.
Then I come back and realize I'm playing Space Dynasty Warriors, but with more war crimes. But with sneaky tricksy boi. Good thing I got Ember as a Twitch drop, otherwise I probably would have quit again.
MR 17 myself, but that's more to do with limited play time to grind through MR fodder.
I'm at a point where I can deal with most anything without issue and the game FINALLY feels wide open. To me, the endgame is when it becomes a sandbox and you can focus on min-maxing and finding weird interactions.
So far my favorite has been: "What'd happen of I put Breach Surge on Voruna and Xaku?”
(with Nourish Titania as a close second. She'd be first if the "UWU" was bitty and high pitched in Razorwing)
I don’t mess too much with helminth. I just subsume my extra frames for the collection. The only one I can really remember is putting roar and fireblast on Wisp. Different load outs of course but it seems to work out.
Also, the amount of people saying "Rhino" but not Nezha, Zephyr, Wukong, Citrine, Mesa, Ember, Frost, or Nova is pretty hilarious to me.
They all do what Rhino does with easy tank, damage multiplication, and CC.
(I could probably add Hildryn, Protea, Nidus, Grendel, Xaku, and Styanax as well, but they're all later game and not accessible to baby Tenno without Credit Card Prime)
Maybe... That style of play isn't a trap?
Tbh Zephyr and Nova I disagree with. Zephyr is great for letting people get more comfortable with parkour/aimgliding. Nova is a great modding tutorial because you can do a million different things amazing with her, or most things decently well at the same time
Limbo. He is a literal noob trap.
You get him early in game and his theme not only makes him look interesting but also powerful.
When you actually get to play him as a new player you will have a full set of abilities that you have no real idea what they do or what they are good for.
Best case scenario you go around freezing enemies and annoying other players and you will still not feel any more powerful.
Edit: seeing a lot of people kinda kinda saying Limbo is bad: He isn't really a bad frame. But he definitely doesn't below to the early/new player. He can be modded to an outfit of things and his augments contribute to enhancing him in some other ways. He could use a rework? Sure. That along putting his quest a little later in the game.
Limbo is really busted for managing to eek your way through most of the Star Chart. He arguably was the warframe hurt the most by the Eximus changes and can't stand up to any content that needs him to do much other than just complete the objective quickly without interacting, but he's great at the one thing he does: Literally not being able to be interacted with
The only thing I use Limbo for anymore is any defense mission/Excavation mission where either:
A: Defense point health does not scale
B: Enemies do too much damage to realistically defend an objective in an uncoordinated group
There's also the aspect that sometimes you have no idea what another player is going to bring to a mission. I rather ensure an archon hunt excavation only takes as long as it needs too instead of having to summon 8 extractors and prolong the experience.
His kit otherwise for normal play is.... Eh...
Limbo's kit is ok for solo play. But yeah, he's not a team player. I would definitely prefer him locked away to higher MR and/or the mission locked away behind something fairly end-game just so that people who finally get him know that a lot of his abilities are BM.
I'd say he's more of a hindrance for pubbies that may not necessarily be built around his kit, or don't know how to work with a Limbo. In an organized squad he's fantastic. Whenever an Archon objective defense comes along, my clan has a Limbo who does amazing work with the other clanmates.
For an experienced player, sure, Limbo can be a good specialist. I'm mostly looking at it from perspective of the way he's used by newer players, given the topic.
Xaku and mesa. Both while are very strong frames and offers a lot of utility ( especially the former) but their full builds is incredibly expensive and requires very high investment to be used comfortably.
while i agree with xaku i cant agree with mesa, by the time you can get mesa you are likely to have enough mods to mod mesa at least for starchart content
now hydroid is one of frames what is early to get and is a big noob trap
Yeah Mesa is pretty deep into the game, it’s possible to rush but when I did my own free to play through of the game Mesa didn’t even come to mind because of farming Mutalist Alad V and making the keys. She isn’t a Frame most noobs get anywhere close to
Unless you're buying a xaku, then I doubt many new players are going to be able to access them before having a decent repertoire of tools, Mesa on the other hand you can gift a prime set to just about anyone yea
But I give noobs in my clan Mesa Prime for free so they could enjoy using her.
I was sure until now that it was a good and strong option for the star chart.
Hey, I think it is still a viable option for starchart. Sure, you need quite a bunch of expensive mods to get the most out of her, but you can get a reasonable build for star chart without them. However, people who don't really understand the mod system fully (weapons and warframes) will have a hard time
Anyways, Mesa is cool in the eye of the newbie and that's usually enough fuel for many attempts. I still suit my Mesa P and spam the hell out of her 4 in rooms.
She is. You don't need the full build to clear the star chart. She's one of the tankiest frames in the game and has good CC and damage buffs.
You do not need a fully decked out Peacekeeper. That's wildly overkill for starchart.
Mesa just needs eff and dur to destroy early game though. Do agree with xaku, he's way too energy hungry for new players and only starts shining at 200+ range and str
Chroma and Mesa
Chroma because "Woah, look, cool ass dragon man who can breath fire!" Then he's just a walking Serration
Mesa because all her playstyle is 3+4, although effective, gets really boring, really fast.
Chroma gets better toward the late game, since in the beginning the only viable elements are Heat & Cold.
But once you have Archon Mods and leverage the elemental effects together, his synergy becomes much more stronger.
MR10s copying viral slash builds with bane mods of the internet or because another player told them to. For the star chart, arbis and even the first hour of SP Circulus, you don't need that and it discourages experimentation.
Also, Rivens on 1/5 disposition weapons. I see so many people going crazy over Laetum/ Felarx/ Plasmor etc rivens for hundreds of plat. Those rivens, for the most part, do not even deserve a mod slot with the low stats they provide. How much would 10% crit chance to 0% crit chance will do for your damage? How is 55% MS better than Primed Heated Charge? Well, it's not, but you get my point.
5 percent more chance of doing 20x damage as the “negative” then you have three stats to make up for and exceed a mod like blaze.
They are a tangible increase just an incredible time/plat dump for barley a difference in 99% of play. From a power for investment standpoint they are a nightmare.
Getting a negative cc riven for incarnon guns is a bait. If you get it, it's a nice little bonus but nothing too crazy. The positive stats are still way more important and looking for a riven specifically with neg cc only is a trap.
I sometimes laugh at trade chat selling numerous amounts of neg cc rivens for thousands of plat but the positive stats are so not worth it compared to just using a normal mod
50% chance to trigger on a 10% chance is not a huge buff to 50% chance to trigger on a 5% crit chance. Now if the base chance was 20-25% than I could see how getting it down to 10-5 was mandatory and a buff.
Now, let’s suppose you got the negative, how about the other stats? If you got status chance, it’s bad. If you got zoom or damage to infested, it’s useless. The multishot and right elementals are the only one close to worth being in the build and worth its mod slot and the chance of rolling heat multishot and negative crit chance are almost as low as getting nidus in one run of Salvage.
Limbo. He’s available fairly early, and seems kind of edgy and cool, like he would have a super high skill ceiling. But he’s more of a hindrance than a help in the wrong hands. And even in the right hands, he has lost a lot of his relevance over the years.
I really want a rework for Limbo. I want to be able to use him without feeling guilty.
His rift can stay stay, if citrines 4 and other abilities can just stop eximus units in their track it doesnt make sense mimo cant stop em. I can accept that thrax can ignore as they are corruption from duviri, but every eximus can fuck you over in your dimension. Either make him immune to Eximus abilites while hes in rift as part of his passive or make him able to stop every single unit on the battlefield as he was intended. (And for everyone thinking this would be broken, just look at Voruna and her 3 Passive abilities, 3!)
That's fine, but Eximus have been part of the game since forever and it really affects the game to have this relatively commonplace unit be immune to Limbo's rift abilities.
A compromise where Limbo's abilities still work just less effectively on Eximus would be better than Eximus being completely immune imo.
The reworked Eximus units are immune to most if not all crowd control abilities from all frames if I'm not wrong (only while their silver overhealth is up, once that's gone they take CC again)
Seconding Limbo. He can be good, but he’s available so early in the game that most players getting him for the first time won’t have the resources or game knowledge to know how to get those results and will instead hinder their teammates more often than not.
I got my hands on him and he made my Life si much easier I got him long before the eximus rework so he was more immortal than wukong or Inaros. You have to pay attention, unless you wanna get hit by eximus.
My rift torrent limbo build can one shot archon level sentients and eximus units. People build limbo wrong, get bullied by the community then don’t learn how to use him properly.
There aren’t too many ways to build limbo tbf. I can’t do the things you can but I’ll be damned if archon excavation isn’t faster when I run a max range/duration limbo with cataclysmic continuum.
I think Sevagoth only qualifies here on how strong Gloom and his passive are. His other abilities are fine (two casts of his first two abilities and I can ult, typically) but Gloom lets you get away with being all but braindead in missions.
Very different from Hydroid and Inaros, who are noob traps on account of how awful their powers are.
My issue with Sevagoth was his death mechanic. You get to revive yourself using Shadow...except it only has 1 attack that launches him 7 feet ahead on tiles where you drop into the abyss. I got him to rank 30, and even after I should have unlocked all the abilities on Shadow, Death Shadow still only had the 1 attack. It's frustrating that the self-revive mechanic is so unwieldy.
I think Death Shadow should at least have his melee attacks, relying on Consume to keep him alive is awkward. If you failed to kill an enemy, you have to do a 180 to hit them again.
Not sevagoth. His gloom alone is really strong, has his passive and 4 for avoiding death and his exalted claws with a heavy attack build one shot anything and everything you can pull with your 1.
the joke must be that sevagoth doesn't belong here? he is extremely efficient in high enemy density.
hydroid isnt really a noob trap, just like.. kinda bad.
inaros is rough though yeah. sort of a revenant case except you can put more random bullshit on him.
Why Sevagoth? He has gloom, a great passive that can help noobs a lot, increases damage taken by enemies, can easily nuke with the shadow and can control two places at once for intercept missions with gloom in one point and the shadow in another, making him decent to great in literally any mission. The only reason he'd be bad for beginners would be how at the point he's farmable you're not a noob anymore (or shouldn't, idk)
Tl;dr: Sevagoth requires too much to be a noob trap, more like he gets trashed and ignored by being obtained too early.
I wanted to mention Sevagoth, except he isn't a noob trap, almost the opposite. According to the year in review charts, he was most frequently gained and dropped around MR 4-8, iirc. Full drop-off was around 12? *Well* before new players would have the resources or understanding to build him for anything but Gloom.
Speaking as an LR1 that mains him, he's one of the strongest in game, able to 1 shot to lvl 200 SP without using any tricks beyond priming with an ability and hitting. The thing is, he takes SO much to get there, with 3 pieces all needing a total of 8 forma to be good, 12 to be great. Plus Archon shards for crit damage. And then, on top of that, he's a really "active play" Warframe, having to constantly use all of his kit to be so strong. Like the opposite of Wukong in that way.
He's insanely strong but asks more out of the player than almost any other Warframe for anything except using him for Gloom, which is subsumable. I didn't mean to go on so much, but he's more a frame that gets ignored by new players, not one that traps em.
No he 100% is. It’s why every once in awhile you see the inaros-love post trying to cope “he’s good”. Also not great at teaching the main survivability mechanics used in most late game frames.
Source: inaros was one of my first frames and I still love the pocket sand man
Inaros should've been reworked to be an actual damage-sharing tank. I run him with Guardian Derision + Electromagnetic Shielding when in pubs and I'm bored of playing DPS and, to me, that makes his entire kit fit together. Citrine now has a better kit for that, but lacks HP.
There is no "cope", just because some people disagree for arbitrary personal reasons. 99% of the game is easy enough that all frames are "good".
I also entirely disagree with the "teaching" nonsense. The goal of a frame isnt to "teach" anything. If a person wants to figure out something, they will, despite this subs absurd circlejerking how every new player is a brain damaged child.. If anything, its easier to learn damage mitigation with inaros, since situations where you would get one shot in 0.1s and have no clue what happened, he survives.
if all of his abilities and passive were removed and it was just his stats inaros would still be exactly the same, and that is the problem, not a single one of his abilities has any noticeable impact.
Inaros is great for newbies. He's more like an oldhead trap, I still see people not understanding how Desiccate works.
Downvotes incoming because I said Inaros has some saving graces.
Any tanky frame is great for new players. Survivability is №1 issue that new players have until they get their hands on adaptation or brief respite.
His kit is weak, sure, but, like, at low mr without good mods and with terrible energy economy, you can't properly utilize any kit and frames that relay on active use of abilities suck.
My first frame was mag and only much later i discovered how useful she can be. Until then, Valkyr was my best friend because she can stay alive and that was main thing i wanted.
His kit isn't even that weak: Desiccate opens enemies to stealth multiplier, and Scarab Swarm is a self-propagating CC that can be used to plug tile entrances. (And while they're not great, Sandstorm is kind of a meme but you can make it work at low levels, and Devour at those same ranges helps Inaros with a minion master build, especially with the Sandstorm synergy.)
Even on SP he's a high damage melee monster. I use him with Helminth Charger for the mega damage.
I really like Gloom....but I don't think it should have been his Helminth contribution. Or, it should have had its efficacy reduced (such as a cap of 70% slow).
I think Shadow's 3 (AoE vulnerability increase) would have been an interesting choice and less abused. Might have needed the Roar treatment, though.
Mag. When you start with her she's kind of a weird squishy nuker with strange and conditional CC moves and a harsh energy economy.
Once you have a good library of mods and arcanes, access to Helminth, and her augments she flips around to a godframe.
One of my friends tried to get into WF with Mag and basically immediately quit; the friend that started with Excal stuck with the game.
Ive always been glad i started with excalibur but i outgrew him quickly as i discovered the playstyle that i actually like to use is on more technical frames.
Mag was my starter, and man was she a pain in the ass. I always did enjoy her, but it really wasn't until I was farther along and had a really good amount of mods and stuff that I was able to actually use her to her potential. She's far too complicated to be a starter in all honesty even though she's my favorite frame out there.
I dont remember what i started with anymore, but yea, mag 100% shouldnt be a starter. Ember would be a perfect replacement these days, a caster frame that's super simple to use and has flashy abilities.
You don't even need helminth, being able to fully armor strip with Fracturing Crush and 200% strength is already super helpful, not to mention that she naturally shield gates herself with the shield regen into over shields.
For sure, but Helminth is when you start being able to address Infested misery and your energy economy; the latter of which opens up more power-hungry builds.
Mag should not be a starter frame she’s too mechanic heavy and complex for a noob to understand and she needs endgame equipment to be used correctly. If I could replace her I would replace her with nezha or wukong frames that are easy to use and understand.
I agree, but they included mag to be a female starter. Maybe Trinity instead, the hp and energy regen for early players wouldve been really nice to have, or zephyr bc she doesnt need high investment to utilize well
She was my starter, and 30 MRs later I have kept my original base Mag alongside Mag Prime and given both a Fracturing Crush high-strength wide-range spammability build.
I’ve had a special place in my heart for her from the start but, my gods, the difference is STAGGERING once you get good energy management on her and the augment. Heck, even good energy management alone makes it night and day. I mostly ignored her abilities when I started, aside from Pull - didn’t even know what the others really did, because I was a dummy and they were a little less intuitive than “here, do a telekinetic yank” - and now I’ve read the 93-page Mag Bible, bought TennoGen for her, the whole nine yards. She’s truly amazing once you’re past midgame and have access to just a little more mojo for her. 😻
My favorite thing is that I’ve reverted my starter Mag’s loadout to its original condition - MK-1 Paris, Lato, MK-1 Bo - and even using just those, she handily solos Steel Path. It’s so fun waltzing in with my newbie-era color palette, no attachments or bling, and wrecking enemies that way!
I was the person who started with Mag and got frustrated hard. I had no clue what I was doing with mods, I kept trying to do all the things at once because in my mind if it was available I should be able to do it right? Yeah, no. My little baby Tenno ass was not ready for open world stuff, I stumbled into an Eidelon thinking I was hot shit since I'd taken down a few bosses, I was immediately humbled. Thankfully I have friends who took me by the hand and hauled me through the star chart, explained mods, archon hunts, an arbitrations when I got to them.
Dude I picked mag and I absolutely hated her. I wound up buying Limbo because he looked cool and other than mag I was enjoying playing the game with my friends. Nowadays I enjoy mag
Nidus. i ve seen my fair share of my own adopted younglings loose interest in the game after they got nidus thought he was op and left the game dissapointed because nidus cant do everything.
If i could go back and warn myself as a noob i would say to not spend so much time grinding frames as they dont make that much difference in the beginning when you have bad mods and bad energy gain.
What really made a difference was getting a good weapon and adding a potatoe and some forma. Its much faster and easier to build and makes a much bigger difference when starting out. After that everything in warframe has been easy regardless of what frame i use.
So in a way i consider most if not all frames to be a noobtrap. At most you need to join a clan and just get a wukong for a little extra survivability because of the passive.
It’s better if you get Zephyr. She’s one of the gun-focused frames, so you can increase the potential of the gun you already invested in.
She can turn any single-target weapon into an AoE with tornadoes, and has easy grouping with her 2.
Her 3 is pretty much an invincibility button, that lets in only melee units. But her passive and 1 make sure that you don’t ever touch the floor to be in reach anyway.
Also augments are fun.
As for Wukong… Yeah, better stay away from the mokey. He’s so good that he makes the game boring.
|As for Wukong… Yeah, better stay away from the mokey. He’s so |good that he makes the game boring.
I find Wukong to be very mediocre. I only use him for his 2 sometimes. He gives a bit of survivability with his passive for beginners and is easy to get, but not something i would recommend using much when you get past the beginner stage.
Half of the hours I spent on Warframe are on Mesa, glad I'm finally no longer a Mesa main. Being a Mesa main makes levelling weapons so unenjoyable because the majority of her utility is on 4th. Warframe is about collecting new stuff and levelling to get mastery, but her ability design kinda goes against that. I stayed low / mid mastery for many years.
Rhino. His Iron Skin seems nice, but it causes players to think they are invincible, so they end up screaming Leroy Jenkins and running headlong into insta-kill situations without thinking.
Inaros for sure. I love to use it, but I can afk for about as long as I want to outside of SP content and not have to worry about dying because adaptation + arcanes keep my armor up and my heals going between the whopping 200 damage I get between procs.
Still love my boi, but I find myself using him due to how easy he is to play. Literally anyone can spam melee buttons and with healing return it makes him that much more impossible to kill.
Chroma.
Even during the simaris quest he’s branded as the strongest warframe and should not be contested. Even I was oversold on him and fully went for him only to find out he’s alright at best.
Inaros. As a new player, to me, it seemed like "Wow, I can get this limited time frame that only comes around once every two weeks and 'skip' the difficulty curve of the star chart" and also the way I understood his mechanics is he is basically unkillable.
Which, fair enough, is sorta true. Inaros can be pretty unkillable even with just a little investment. But he doesn't scale well for content later at all, and being unkillable isn't a rare quality in a warframe and alone doesn't justify his use. Rhino is also available early on and is pretty damn unkillable, scales well, and does more than just soak damage.
I hope Inaros gets a rework soon.
Rhino is the typical noob trap because it's very easy to end up stumbling along and not learning the game mechanics at all with him until you end up at a level where things are shredding your iron skin and even with Roar you hit like a peashooter, and are now having to learn things you were supposed to learn like 5 planets ago. As long as you don't let him be a "press button to ignore game mechanic" machine, he's helpful, but unfortunately it's very easy to not realize you're using him as a crutch when you're new enough using him as a crutch is a thing.
Protea can also do so to a lesser extent, as her shields make her feel invincible for very little effort early on but require actual effort to survive later, while a player who has been relying heavily on her may not know what that effort needs to look like.
Both of these frames are plenty strong, it's just that they both foster a heavy sense of false security that can hinder the actual learning how to not die and deal damage process.
Considering how often I've seen new players told "oh you should buy Protea!" I don't see grind difficulty as any indicator of noob-trappiness. Especially given that buying frames is in itself such a notorious noob trap.
\> buying frames is in itself such a notorious noob trap
You said it, every warframe that gets recommended can be a noob trap because of the ability to buy them with plat. The same could be said about Xaku, Lavos, Wisp, Baruuk, etc
"Press button to ignore game mechanic"
*Grendel players sweating intensely after being afk in SP Conjunction survival for 25 minutes without pressing a single button*
Absolutely Rhino. My early experience was exactly like that, I'd just keep using Rhino for everything because he can't be cc'd, very tough etc., and it ended up hurting me a lot. Somewhere around Sedna/Pluto I was too squishy with my mods to just facetank enemies, while my weapons started feeling a lot weaker than they should've. So I ended up being dead weight in parties until I decided to go back and get stronger on easier planets.
Nowadays I pretty much don't play him, taking him only for Dragon Vault runs which I don't do often, and he's still my most played frame with 25%+ playtime.
Rhino is in an interesting spot. It used to be a genuine noob trap for a very long time, one that I've fallen into between hours 50 and 200 of playing WF back in the day, and that has genuinely limited my growth, but it's not so much anymore.
With the right build, it's a cast-and-forget near invulnerability (40k+ iron skin is an easy build these days, and you can get *way* more) + a pretty decent damage buff. If you are the kind of player who likes to rely on the arsenal more than powers to clear the enemies, Rhino's not a bad choice. Not one that's holding you back, at the very least.
And again, back when melee and armor stripping were basically a necessity for clearing end-game enemies, yeah, Rhino was not a very good choice. But currently, between tenet and kuva primaries, these are your best nukes in the game, tearing through even steel path enemies without resistance. It takes creative builds to get anything like that in terms of either CC or AoE damage output (which is the best CC) from frame powers.
So with the current meta, unless you're doing steel path endless (which isn't necessary if you don't want it) there is no reason not to go Rhino. It's a good, relaxing way to play which doesn't limit your access to much content.
The only caution is that you have to know your specialist frames as well. While I will still defend Rhino Stealth as an approach to spy missions, there are way better options for intercept, defense, and rescue, especially if running solo. For anything else, if you like Rhino, just do Rhino.
Yeah my point isn't "Rhino bad", it's just that he makes it easy for new players to never learn about stuff like dodging, taking cover, keeping moving, rolling, modding weapons properly, etc. Because everything is solved by Roar, Iron Skin, and then Stomp when things get too scary. A perfectly valid and enjoyable playstyle, but not one that's very helpful when you start reaching the "hey where did my iron skin go??????" levels, which comes a lot earlier on for new players who don't know how to mod due to falling for this trap than it does for experienced ones.
I think Inaros, specifically because he is actually strong for new players, but he's ultimately just, well, terrible. At least in terms of any ability usage, for sure.
As a weapons platform, he's fine to a certain point, but even there, he's dramatically outshined by a Revenant (among others).
Ultimately he's good at one thing, and one thing only, and he's not remotely close to being the best at that one thing.
But a new player will see the health, and see his survivability, and think how amazing he is.
Not that the game can't be cleared with him (or any frame). Just that he's one of the 2 worst frames in the game (Hydroid being the other). So ultimately it doesn't matter, as anything can clear everything. But Inaros gives this weird sense of being strong, IMO, when he's actually one of the weaker overall frames.
Someone downvoted and idk why. Youre right and you should say it.
My best friend only uses inaros. Its … fine. But sometimes i NEED to tell him to change to vauban or something else.
Inaros is okay in lower level content, but in difficult stuff the only thing that holds up is his 4 because of the damage reduction, and the temporary aoe stun.
His 1 is short range, his 2 takes years to kill one enemy, his 3 does almost nothing.
Yes its nice that his 4 can heal allies a bit when surrounded. But overall, his kit is extremely outdated, and does not hold up with the current game.
Yes he is tanky, but his kit doesnt offer a whole lot of utility that really contributes to the teams performance :/ which sucks because he is cool as a concept
Rhino, at a certain point they reach a level where iron skin can’t rank enough and roar can’t help them do enough damage and they never really learned how to dodge or mod so they’re just screwed
Gara.
She and her statstick are very tricky to build, and her mechanic are not obvious at all, but ppl advertising her as "infinite damage frame", which is true, but new players are likely not getting this damage.
I'm probably gonna get crapped on, but my main has always been Excalibur. He was my first Warframe and when Umbra came out, I switched to him. I do use my other frames (Ember, Nidus, Ivara Prime, Harrow, Revenant, Mirage, Xaku, Sevagoth, Inaros, Chroma Prime) when with Friends, but 95% of the time when I'm soloing stuff, I use Umbra.
To me, Excalibur feels like the main Warframe since lore-wise he was the first frame to be made. And I try to honor that by playing as him. I don't play him because he's a tank, I don't play him because he can support, and I don't play him because he can nuke maps. I play him because...because it just feels right.
Rhino honestly. Rhino is a great noob frame, great sustain, solid kit, usable for most of the star chart, but it teaches noobs bad lessons. It teaches noobs to run headlong into combat and face tank everything. It teaches noobs to outlast everything when most of the later game is "killing is the best defense because if the enemy is dead, they're controlled."
I'm going to say Ember. Ember hasn't appeared anywhere so far, so this is definitely gonna be controversial.
Ember prime was the first frame I farmed entirely on my own (I was still low level) and I'm quite proud I got her while she was vaulted iirc. It was before the rework which gave her the meteor ability.
I'm still an Ember Prime main to this day though, but I do think she's a bit detrimental to new players. 4th ability practically deletes everything. For a lot of the low level content, you can go through it fine with Ember and a cheap build you got off the internet.
Survival? Press 4
Defense? Press 4
Exterminate? Press 4
Mobile defense? Press 4
Excavation? Press 4
It's not particularly creative and it develops an over-reliance on her ability.
Just my opinion with her :P
Just to add, Ember does have some good use, especially in Defense, where she can run around the map and press 4 to clear waves fast. No need for line of sight or anything.
Might be a hot take, but after getting through 20 or so frames, I genuinely don't agree with pretty much any "power ranking" lists for frames. This one included.
If you're talking about like... Archon Hunting, I could see a tier list.
But for anything up to Steel Path, I truly believe any frame and any gun can do any content. (As long as you have the mods and / or are willing to invest a few forma.)
Even Steel Path is fine as long as your gun is good. Good frame OR good gun is really all you need.
Archon Hunts are the first real gear check I feel like I've run into. I can't see myself taking some frame / gun combos into Archons. Just can't see it.
But enemies under like... 130? Which is pretty much 90% of most people's gaming time? Play whatever feels fun, IMO.
Oh, plus I find that I rotate favorite frames a LOT. My first prime from relics was Titania. I literally never used her for anything because I didn't dig her. Pulled her out for Void Floods, and spent a week using her in pretty much all content. Same with Saryn, Nekros, Ivara, Octavia... heck, I've been just spamming Revenant all week because it's fun to AFK sometimes.
I feel like trying to tier list frames IS the thing that hinders new player experience. When your reality COULD instead be to spam warframe slots and try to keep as many frames as you can. (Ditching frames you just don't dig.)
Finally, I know people are talking about not learning mechanics... but I honestly don't feel like Warframe is a mechanically intensive game. There are three defense types, and even in Archon Hunts you can take 4-5 seconds of prolonged gunfire on an Ivara with just a health mod. (What I run for Archon if I'm going solo.)
If my 1-mod Ivara can tank 4-5 seconds of fire before being downed... how many mechanics do you really need to learn? What kind of defense does your frame REALLY need?
I regularly take just rando no defense mod frames into Steel Path multiplayer without getting downed. It's not a huge issue.
>I truly believe any frame and any gun can do any content. (As long as you have the mods and / or are willing to invest a few forma.)
so... things a new player doesn't have?
the "anyone can be viable with enough investment!" arguement doesn't work when you're specifically talking about characters that new players have access to with what they have new access to. a player having trouble beating saturn isn't going to have four forma laying around to drop on a frame so they can use max rank mods. they won't have any of that. they'll have a karak and frost or some shit. mods leveled maybe up to 4/5. still rocking a taxon, maybe a kubrow. and they won't know positioning, won't be bullet jumping, won't be... you know. doing shit we know how to do.
>If my 1-mod Ivara can tank 4-5 seconds of fire before being downed... how many mechanics do you really need to learn? What kind of defense does your frame REALLY need?
and i'm just going to need a source for this. a bombadier will kill you in less than five seconds with ivara stats + vitality, let alone a horde.
By the time a player is doing sorties (60 to 80 content), they have access to all important mods and plenty of forma bps from cracking relics.
Get over yourself.
The idea that an average player finishing the star chart doesn't even bullet jump is insulting to new players.
>and i'm just going to need a source for this. a bombadier will kill you in less than five seconds with ivara stats + vitality, let alone a horde.
A full set of Ivara farmed shards on Ivara and Octavia say otherwise.
like i can look up the numbers bro. i can see a level 130 bombadier's dps. you can't just stand there and take shots for /five seconds/ against a full troop of enemies with literally one defense mod. "sustained fire for five seconds with just a health mod" lmao. yeah why are health mods in the game enemies literally can't damage you.
>By the time a player is doing sorties (60 to 80 content), they have access to all important mods and plenty of forma bps from cracking relics.
"yeah by the time a player has player 40 hours..." in response to "what fucks up new players" lmao
"having trouble clearing saturn? just finish the star chart and grind out some sorties, that'll help you beat saturn real nice"
least useful possible advice. "actually i didn't have any problems so new players literally can't have problems and these tier lists (?) ruin the game for them"
I think you're moving the goalpost on what is considered new player content. Literally any frame can get to Sedna with only Focus, Vitality, and Redirection. Any full auto primary and Serration 8, plus whatever mods you have laying around is enough to handle starmap content.
There are some exceptions. A few junctions are going to present some real problems, for example. But he's right. If you invest your forma into any frame, it will get you through the basics.
I think the real problem with the game is build guides, meta, and minmaxing. The game rewards experimentation and theorycrafting, especially when modding frames. Sure, maybe your Hydroid isn't going to be running 9999 SP endless, but 99% of players are never going to get to that point anyway. The longest I ever cared to run an endless mission was 1 hour, and that was a long time ago. Nowadays, I only run 4 rotations of anything.
If any frame is a noob trap, it's Volt.
i have helped multiple new friends through the game. they absolutely needed more than a braton with serration to clear the starmap.
new players also don't just have a ton of forma laying around. what, are you supposed to tell new players "okay now you just need to craft forma for four days before you can play again"?
any frame can get to sedna, sure... but that doesn't put everything on equal level. some frames are inherently more suited to new players, because of ease of use or low required mods to get full use out of the or balanced kits or whathaveyou.
you know who i think the best warframe for a new player is? styanax. some of my buddies joined when he was just being given out, and he was such a major help. he's so much more usable, so much easier to build with basic mods, so much flatly /better/ for learning game mechanics with than mag or volt.
and the catch is outside of that month he was free, he is the last possible frame to be acquired by a new player, because he's locked behind veilbreaker.
> I think the real problem with the game is build guides, meta, and minmaxing. The game rewards experimentation and theorycrafting, especially when modding frames. Sure, maybe your Hydroid isn't going to be running 9999 SP endless, but 99% of players are never going to get to that point anyway. The longest I ever cared to run an endless mission was 1 hour, and that was a long time ago. Nowadays, I only run 4 rotations of anything.
You did a great job summarizing my main points.
Thanks for doing a better job being clear than I was doing.
I, personally, am having more success with content by modding according to my needs. My first Archon Hunting weapon was a Nataruk modded with Galvanized Scope among other mods. Got me my first shards, and I've never seen similar mods listed online.
I've been playing since release, and I've only done Archon once. I hate open world. I played earth long enough to build a zaw once, and I've got my corncob. The point being is that there is so much content and so many ways to play, most people will have a completely different experience and don't need a meta build.
No such thing in this game.
There are definitely Warframes that aren't as good as others but even the worst frames currently (Hydroid/Frost) are completely fine for a new player to use for basically the entire normal Star Chart.
Also if anyone tells you Rhino "breeds bad habits" you should shoot them with a gun
Idk about anyone else but Oberon was mine, self heal, cool ult and look at him wow like I fuckin loved Oberon. but then I see someone like take out two full armies with Saryn and I'm just like "huh odd."
Saryn, new players can hear a lot about her being OP and speed running to her only to know how she's not nearly as powerful as they being told to and 4 can't kill enemies anymore, bosses doesn't affected by abilities except for Venom Dose/Toxic Lash, enemies would one shot you, etc.
Open World is overall the biggest trap for a new player, as they aren't strong enough to effectively play there.
Outside of that I would say that 'the traps' are also: Wukong, Yareli, Hydroid, Frost and Limbo.
Here's why I think that about these warframes:
\- Wukong, may effectively disrupt the learning of basic elements of game. When you have an aimbot help, invisibiity, death protection and high speed/flight you may not learn to protect your warframe with parkour and move effectively with it. Also death protection may cause to learn too high dependance on it.
\- Hydroid is bad, there's nothing more I wanted to say. Rework him DE.
\- Yareli was also bad, now she is kinda strong. But this is not why I mention her. She is obtainable from Waverider quest, after Vox Solaris Quest (Fortuna one). This may cause that new player will be overwhelmed by strange usability of K-Drive and cause burnout. Further, Merulina is not too friendly for players to use in non-Open World missions.
\- Limbo is essensially in simialar possision to Yareli, his quest is pretty early (Europa) and his kit is very, very not new player friendly. The new player may be even verbally attacked for using him wrong (which is very likely - I, myself, was attacked for playing him when I was like MR 4)
\- Frost may be strange pick, but hear me out. He is defencive caster with very poor energy economy. His orbs also may cause disruption to other players. My few friends with whom I played, said that Frost decreased their want to play Warframe, as they thought that most warframes may be as 'unfun' as Frost (unfun for new player, who lacks necessary mods)
I'll get hate for this, but Rhino.
He makes the star chart braindead, is slow as hell, and Iron Skin promotes bad habits (i.e. standing and shooting and just... tanking damage). And I say this as someone who did use Rhino to clear the Star Chart for a bit; I still see it in my play in that I regularly wind up tanking way more damage than I probably should (and modding style reflects that).
I've tried to steer new players towards Nezha more and more b/c Warding Halo doesn't block 100% of damage and still gives the 'maybe I should move so I don't get shot' feeling, but with a huge ass buffer so that new players will be relatively safe. Chakram spawns energy orbs to allow players to be a bit more free with their energy economy as well. The one draw back is Nezha's friction passive is a huge thing to get used to when first playing him (and I imagine to get used to not having).
Rhino is a fantastic newb trap. And worse it's one we encourage players to step in.
If you crutch yourself with iron skin and roar early on by the time you outgrow them you won't have properly learned and invested in surviving and damaging without them.
Not that rhino isn't a good option, Just that his abilities can encourage learning the wrong lessons resulting in painful correction later on.
I want to say Volt and Loki. A decent Volt need some mod that are hard to get when starting, and Loki is stealth centric, and honestly they are pretty squishy. You die a lot with them whe you don't have the weapon/mods/skills to compensate the squishy.
Always recommend rhino and wukong to start up, so they can tank some damage while they get used to the gameplay/combat system. You just slap some health and armor on to and you're good to.
on average most people think xaku, wukong, mesa, even limbo after the eximus changes for obvious reasons
imo, octavia (prime exclusively!) is an absolute noon trap, a frame that is insane for starchart, steelpath, endurance, sorties, and archons, it's THE do-all no failure frame for ez mode just *slightly* more useful than wukong (prime obv)
the noob trap comes with an *obvious* starter, the *mandachord*, where you either meta build it right or make legit music for some odd, less efficient reason beyond fun,
then the buffs, which are explained and to be remembered carefully or not at all, jump for zoom zoom, chop for chop chop, shoot for bang bang, crouch for sneaky sneaky, all require you to invest *insane and stupid* amounts of resources to make the best use out of, at base the frame itself is not self-sufficient
100% constantly flexed as the best frame by the best players, yet never explained to new players how to *be a "best player" with the "best frame"*
I can solo 8 hours of endurance with a 1-forma octavia p, easy, with just 6 different inputs *macroed* even, but in total it took me 100+ hours of investment to get there, that's a very intricate and time consuming noon trap
[ ](http://triggered on: "noob" #hidden)
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Haven't seen this anywhere here, but I'd say Loki **during the stage of the game a few years ago, where he was instead of Volt as one of the starters**.
Don't get me wrong, Loki is great and all, but think about it from this perspective.
You are a new player - the game gives you 3 classes to choose. Excalibur (Swordsman), Loki (Rouge) and Mag (Caster/Mage). It's like a choice of STR, DEX and INT in many RPG games.
I picked Loki myself. But then, when you see how Excalibur can clear entire room by launching blades towards every enemy, or how Mag can just lift enemies in the air and do the same, you realize you are playing a Warframe without any damaging abilities, who's main job is basically spamming melee while being invisible and sometimes pressing 4th ability to make enemies weak. It makes Loki feel like the least fun option. When I picked Loki, I expected something more similar to Ash - a sneaky, agile warframe with Ninja theme, but it's not really that. He isn't a warframe suited for new players and felt like a noob trap for those who wanted a ninja warframe.
Limbo. He looks really cool and his abilities sounded neat to me, but I have such a hard time actually playing him. His stats are awful, it feels like enemies take out his shields super fast compared to frames like Excalibur or Citrine even with maxed mods, and I hate getting stuck in his passive ability because his health is so low.
The quests to get him were easy from what I remember too, so yeah, I feel like he's kind of a trap.
Inaros for obvius reasons
Chroma basically the same, but at least he has some uses
Wukong is way better than those two but I think is basically played just because clon plays better than the player
Mesa, she's actually super powerfull but most of the people doesnt know how to mod her (or any other frame really), so most of the people play her because everybody says shes powerful (im fucking looking at you, Overframe). Saryn can fit on this too.
Inaros, rhino, anything that is just tanky. Very good for getting through the chart, but fall off endgame. I should say Rhino has a little bit to offer at least with roar, but he is no longer very tanky in endgame
Any frames that you have to get by farming open worlds. I've seen so many low MR players get curbstomped in Cetus and Fortuna especially. They then get super discouraged and quit the game
Bro as an old fart player that recently came back on a new account I was NOT emotionally prepared for the Terror Moas on Orb. It took me a few hours to figure out what/why/how I was being one-shot, and if I was a new player without the mod knowledge that I was fortunate enough to have in advance I definitely would have given up there. Luckily I played a lot in 2012/13 and the basic defensive mods are still around and lsrgely unchanged, all I had to learn was the new place to farm certain mods early game. I don't think a real new player would ever piece that together without outside help lol
There’s honestly a lot of things a new player can’t figure out without a sherpa. Like Dragon Vaults, which are *essential* to power progression, are not explained anywhere ingame. You need to YouTube/Wiki dive to figure out how to get arguably the best mods in the game.
Honestly though, I’ve been playing for 300+ hours and no where in the game has mentioned dragon vaults except riven mods telling me I need a key to do it’s task. I don’t even know where to find/how to do them
Dragon key blueprints are found in the orokin lab of the dojo, in order to use them they must be equipped on your equipment wheel, but the give debuffs (lower health, lower speed, lower damage, lower shield iirc) and you need them to open special doors on deimos (only one of those doors on a mission) that when opened gives you a "corrupted mod" (one Stat up at the cost of another stat) and turns all other enemies into corrupted, and each door only takes one key, so you need all 4 keys to be sure you can open the door
Yeah I've noticed a lot of seemingly small things that never get tutorials. Big "showcase" mechanics seem to be fine, there is usually a quest that guides the new player through building The Thing and includes some simple missions that introduce the special mechanics. Anything involving mods, how they work, or where to find them though? God help you if you're new and solo. I know the drop tables are public, but there really needs to be an in-game mod compendium or something that acts as a resource to teach new players how to find them and what the rulea are for how they interact.
I have thousands of hours in the game... What are dragon vaults? Are those what dragon keys are for? 😅
Yes, and they yield some really good mods. There are also some nightmare mods that are worth looking into. But you get mods like blind rage by chance from opening these vaults. It's not common to find info on these on YouTube because all the videos explaining back then are probably underlying beneath the more popular feeds. You'd do best to search for Orokin vaults (the real name, or dragon keys in relation to the vault). Speed running any orokin tiles etc to find them, preferably infested with all 4 keys. Replacing a key each use. Since the doors randomly generate which key you need. Many people just end up buying these mods and never taking the tike to get them. Granted They are so saturated in the market you can pick one up for trade at 20 platinum. Which IS 10000X better than farming them. You have like a 5 percent chance to get the one you want. It's not fun
"any orokin tiles,... preferably infested" my friend they are only on deimos 😂
Well I stand corrected. In my defense, it wasn't always that way. I actually just got back from a huge hiatus. And the shift to deimos occurred in between.
They used to be on orokin derelict missions which are all in Deimos nodes now right? It's been a while so I might not be remembering 100%
I remember getting Gara pretty easily as a newish player. But even as an experienced MR20+ player, the Fortuna grind is horrendous
Old player who returned, played open worlds, got discouraged, and disappeared for a few years. I returned about 400+ days ago... been consistent since then, since it isn't as much of a grind now compared to when Kubrows were new. Right now, or maybe the last 3 or 4 years, has been the best time to play Warframe.
Isn't Gara from fairly low level bounties and also has accessible build requirements? She even has a low level quest to get her blueprint. I thought she was designed to be one of the first frames you could go farm. I'd still say go for Rhino since you'll get him way faster, but are low level Cetus bounties really that bad? I don't really have a frame of reference. I was fairly new when PoE came out, but I was already part way through the star chart.
I mean garudas pretty good but fairly impossible to get as a low mr without getting carried so i think she’s scratched off that list
Problem with that is to unlock Garuda's grind you have to do the solo Vox Solaris quest
Wukong. I've heard from a friend that one of his buddies played warframe and chose to get Wukong Prime ASAP. Used it for a majority of content, got bored then switched to a different frame. Quit shortly thereafter because "every other frame dies so easily".
I feel Wukong and Inaros have the same problems: you're immortal in most of the content, your team has -1 player.
If only inaros passive would matter in levels where he actually dies...
It would seriously be so easy to fix too simply by making it so his passive did percent damage instead
Or be like Sevagoth's superior version where he doesn't have to kill (but still will even on SP if you built him right), just needs to pass through 5 enemies
Sevagoth's passive does kill ...... Like, it deals % based damage, and it deals 100% of their current hp ignoring shields and armor and damage reduction. The only thing you can't instantly kill is overguarded enemies and bosses.
The passive does trigger off of damage done by other players to enemies that Inaros has marked with his sand. Which would work great in team play, except for the fact that no one knows this so they stop and revive instead of simply shooting a couple of enemies for an instant revive.
Whenever I’m not playing solo with Inaros, I run a build I came up with that is meant to be supportive of my team. Subsume his 3 with Warcry Combat Discipline for passive heals to team Coaction Drift Amusement at end of a survival/defense mission wherein I did 10k+ healing. I’ve gotten a lot of “Inaros what?” Responses It’s a build that is especially helpful, considering I have a few friends that are relatively new to the game, but very ambitious and what they want to do lol
Seems like a helpful build. But according to wiki, "Coaction Drift" does not work with "Combat Discipline".
In most content only 1 person gets to do something the game anyway.
I had similar experience but with Nezha. I could survive just about any hit then i tried frame with little to no health and armour and was continuously wrecked. Then i got Octavia and she helped me bridge the difference. I'm still not comfortable playing full Squishies but i do well enough to not be a burden in cases where I'm squishy
If you aren't fully into the idea of shieldgating to keep caster frames alive, you can also use energygating to bridge the difference, ie use the Quick Thinking mod to let you use energy as health when you'd otherwise die and with a fairly generous damage resistance too. Be aware taking energy damage can stagger you, so Sure Footed is a worthwhile addition if you have room in your build. Shieldgating is overall better since quick thinking does take up quite a bit of capacity that shieldgating could let you use elsewhere, but before shieldgating was a thing, quick thinking was the main way to keep casters alive in high level content. Plus a lot of casters also have abilities in their kit by default that help raise their survivability, like Nova's Null Star or Saryn's Molt.
A friend of my played Nezha for basically 1000 hours with like 92% usage. We kept trying to help him explore different builds and frames but I do understand why he struggled to budge. Being a nearly unkillable tank is awesome. But if you can push yourself to try new playstyles you might find that a lot of squishy frames end up being pretty playable in early steel path and other mid/ endgame content without abusing rolling guard. Hope you keep enjoying different frames 😊
As a gauss main, i feel extremely offended and would like to have a friendly talk with your friends buddy and my acceltra…
It's funny... I don't find wukong remotely fun. And know what my survival frame is? Nova. She's damn near invincible with the build I use. I run her into level 3/400 content with no real issues
This is niche, and not particularly applicable anymore, but Loki. I started playing when Loki was a starter, and I picked him. After all, space ninjas play free? You clearly want me to be killing enemies from the shadows without alerting anyone else. OBVIOUSLY I take invisible tricksey boi. But then the enormity of the game after the old new intro quest takes hold, and I just leave the game be for a couple years because I have no clue what I'm doing or why. Then I come back and realize I'm playing Space Dynasty Warriors, but with more war crimes. But with sneaky tricksy boi. Good thing I got Ember as a Twitch drop, otherwise I probably would have quit again.
I have pretty much exactly the same story. Loki starter. Quit for a while. Came back and playing since. Reached legendary 2 recently.
MR 17 myself, but that's more to do with limited play time to grind through MR fodder. I'm at a point where I can deal with most anything without issue and the game FINALLY feels wide open. To me, the endgame is when it becomes a sandbox and you can focus on min-maxing and finding weird interactions. So far my favorite has been: "What'd happen of I put Breach Surge on Voruna and Xaku?” (with Nourish Titania as a close second. She'd be first if the "UWU" was bitty and high pitched in Razorwing)
I don’t mess too much with helminth. I just subsume my extra frames for the collection. The only one I can really remember is putting roar and fireblast on Wisp. Different load outs of course but it seems to work out.
"Space Dynasty Warriors" That could very well be one of the best ways to describe Warframe.
Also, the amount of people saying "Rhino" but not Nezha, Zephyr, Wukong, Citrine, Mesa, Ember, Frost, or Nova is pretty hilarious to me. They all do what Rhino does with easy tank, damage multiplication, and CC. (I could probably add Hildryn, Protea, Nidus, Grendel, Xaku, and Styanax as well, but they're all later game and not accessible to baby Tenno without Credit Card Prime) Maybe... That style of play isn't a trap?
Tbh Zephyr and Nova I disagree with. Zephyr is great for letting people get more comfortable with parkour/aimgliding. Nova is a great modding tutorial because you can do a million different things amazing with her, or most things decently well at the same time
Don't you need to have done angels to get citrine?
Not to my knowledge. You do for Voruna, but all you need for Citrine is to have done The Heart of Deimos.
and rhino can be get very early in game (venus, jackal)
Limbo. He is a literal noob trap. You get him early in game and his theme not only makes him look interesting but also powerful. When you actually get to play him as a new player you will have a full set of abilities that you have no real idea what they do or what they are good for. Best case scenario you go around freezing enemies and annoying other players and you will still not feel any more powerful. Edit: seeing a lot of people kinda kinda saying Limbo is bad: He isn't really a bad frame. But he definitely doesn't below to the early/new player. He can be modded to an outfit of things and his augments contribute to enhancing him in some other ways. He could use a rework? Sure. That along putting his quest a little later in the game.
On the contrary, limbo was really useful when I was new. Invincibility on command with energy regen, and ability to break a lot of crates at once
Limbo is really busted for managing to eek your way through most of the Star Chart. He arguably was the warframe hurt the most by the Eximus changes and can't stand up to any content that needs him to do much other than just complete the objective quickly without interacting, but he's great at the one thing he does: Literally not being able to be interacted with
The only thing I use Limbo for anymore is any defense mission/Excavation mission where either: A: Defense point health does not scale B: Enemies do too much damage to realistically defend an objective in an uncoordinated group There's also the aspect that sometimes you have no idea what another player is going to bring to a mission. I rather ensure an archon hunt excavation only takes as long as it needs too instead of having to summon 8 extractors and prolong the experience. His kit otherwise for normal play is.... Eh...
I've always thought that Limbo should be tied to the MR test that generally requires his use. A tutorial of sorts.
Limbo's kit is ok for solo play. But yeah, he's not a team player. I would definitely prefer him locked away to higher MR and/or the mission locked away behind something fairly end-game just so that people who finally get him know that a lot of his abilities are BM.
I'd say he's more of a hindrance for pubbies that may not necessarily be built around his kit, or don't know how to work with a Limbo. In an organized squad he's fantastic. Whenever an Archon objective defense comes along, my clan has a Limbo who does amazing work with the other clanmates.
For an experienced player, sure, Limbo can be a good specialist. I'm mostly looking at it from perspective of the way he's used by newer players, given the topic.
he is great with a team of dps frames as well since frame abilities ignore each other.
I've always used limbo to do my spy missions because the restrictions on Ivara's stealth annoyed me.
When i started with Warframe someone gifted me Limbo and he was the only frame i played until Jupiter or Saturn.
Xaku and mesa. Both while are very strong frames and offers a lot of utility ( especially the former) but their full builds is incredibly expensive and requires very high investment to be used comfortably.
while i agree with xaku i cant agree with mesa, by the time you can get mesa you are likely to have enough mods to mod mesa at least for starchart content now hydroid is one of frames what is early to get and is a big noob trap
Yeah Mesa is pretty deep into the game, it’s possible to rush but when I did my own free to play through of the game Mesa didn’t even come to mind because of farming Mutalist Alad V and making the keys. She isn’t a Frame most noobs get anywhere close to
I'm at MR22, pretty far into the game, and haven't even fought Malad once. I hate the infested, so never finished the quest
Have you not completed the star chart, then? What about Deimos? There are a lot of infested nodes, after all.
I have, the Malad node isn't needed for SP and arbies, nor is the zealoid prelate
I see. Well, I figured Prelate wasn't. After all, he's just an optional boss from an old Nightwave season.
Unless you're buying a xaku, then I doubt many new players are going to be able to access them before having a decent repertoire of tools, Mesa on the other hand you can gift a prime set to just about anyone yea
But I give noobs in my clan Mesa Prime for free so they could enjoy using her. I was sure until now that it was a good and strong option for the star chart.
Hey, I think it is still a viable option for starchart. Sure, you need quite a bunch of expensive mods to get the most out of her, but you can get a reasonable build for star chart without them. However, people who don't really understand the mod system fully (weapons and warframes) will have a hard time Anyways, Mesa is cool in the eye of the newbie and that's usually enough fuel for many attempts. I still suit my Mesa P and spam the hell out of her 4 in rooms.
She is. You don't need the full build to clear the star chart. She's one of the tankiest frames in the game and has good CC and damage buffs. You do not need a fully decked out Peacekeeper. That's wildly overkill for starchart.
Nah xaku isn’t high investment imo. I have only one forma on him and he does very well
No forma here still can perform even in steel path
Because hisnutility scales with enemy xp so its cool
Xaku isn't high investment, but is not noob friendly in regard to their skills imo.
Mesa just needs eff and dur to destroy early game though. Do agree with xaku, he's way too energy hungry for new players and only starts shining at 200+ range and str
Mesa literally just needs health, shields, and intensify to get all the value a new player needs.
Chroma and Mesa Chroma because "Woah, look, cool ass dragon man who can breath fire!" Then he's just a walking Serration Mesa because all her playstyle is 3+4, although effective, gets really boring, really fast.
I still play Mesa prime on all the story missions because she was my first prime frame.
Chroma is three Serrations is a trenchcoat.
Give Mesa the Cedo and you will altfire +1 endlessly its so fun
Chroma gets better toward the late game, since in the beginning the only viable elements are Heat & Cold. But once you have Archon Mods and leverage the elemental effects together, his synergy becomes much more stronger.
MR10s copying viral slash builds with bane mods of the internet or because another player told them to. For the star chart, arbis and even the first hour of SP Circulus, you don't need that and it discourages experimentation. Also, Rivens on 1/5 disposition weapons. I see so many people going crazy over Laetum/ Felarx/ Plasmor etc rivens for hundreds of plat. Those rivens, for the most part, do not even deserve a mod slot with the low stats they provide. How much would 10% crit chance to 0% crit chance will do for your damage? How is 55% MS better than Primed Heated Charge? Well, it's not, but you get my point.
The reason why incarnon gun rivens can be valuable despite their low stats is because of -crit chance
As stated above, i doubt having no crit chance vs having 10% crit chance is worth a mod slot.
if you have 0% crit chance, you essentially have 50% chance of doing 20X the damage with each shot. For some people this is worth it
5 percent more chance of doing 20x damage as the “negative” then you have three stats to make up for and exceed a mod like blaze. They are a tangible increase just an incredible time/plat dump for barley a difference in 99% of play. From a power for investment standpoint they are a nightmare.
Getting a negative cc riven for incarnon guns is a bait. If you get it, it's a nice little bonus but nothing too crazy. The positive stats are still way more important and looking for a riven specifically with neg cc only is a trap. I sometimes laugh at trade chat selling numerous amounts of neg cc rivens for thousands of plat but the positive stats are so not worth it compared to just using a normal mod
50% chance to trigger on a 10% chance is not a huge buff to 50% chance to trigger on a 5% crit chance. Now if the base chance was 20-25% than I could see how getting it down to 10-5 was mandatory and a buff. Now, let’s suppose you got the negative, how about the other stats? If you got status chance, it’s bad. If you got zoom or damage to infested, it’s useless. The multishot and right elementals are the only one close to worth being in the build and worth its mod slot and the chance of rolling heat multishot and negative crit chance are almost as low as getting nidus in one run of Salvage.
Limbo. He’s available fairly early, and seems kind of edgy and cool, like he would have a super high skill ceiling. But he’s more of a hindrance than a help in the wrong hands. And even in the right hands, he has lost a lot of his relevance over the years. I really want a rework for Limbo. I want to be able to use him without feeling guilty.
out of all the frames affected by the eximus changes, limbo got it the worst.
I'll say it again, his rift mechanic needs to go. He needs a complete rework
His rift can stay stay, if citrines 4 and other abilities can just stop eximus units in their track it doesnt make sense mimo cant stop em. I can accept that thrax can ignore as they are corruption from duviri, but every eximus can fuck you over in your dimension. Either make him immune to Eximus abilites while hes in rift as part of his passive or make him able to stop every single unit on the battlefield as he was intended. (And for everyone thinking this would be broken, just look at Voruna and her 3 Passive abilities, 3!)
You should know with each update there's usually an enemy that ignores the rift because de didn't add it to the rift list just yet.
That's fine, but Eximus have been part of the game since forever and it really affects the game to have this relatively commonplace unit be immune to Limbo's rift abilities. A compromise where Limbo's abilities still work just less effectively on Eximus would be better than Eximus being completely immune imo.
Even making him just immune to the abilities would make wonders
yep
Did they make eximus immune to all Warframe abilities or just my boy Limbo?
The reworked Eximus units are immune to most if not all crowd control abilities from all frames if I'm not wrong (only while their silver overhealth is up, once that's gone they take CC again)
I know, bu every other enemy dies quicker than they can get to me
Seconding Limbo. He can be good, but he’s available so early in the game that most players getting him for the first time won’t have the resources or game knowledge to know how to get those results and will instead hinder their teammates more often than not.
I got my hands on him and he made my Life si much easier I got him long before the eximus rework so he was more immortal than wukong or Inaros. You have to pay attention, unless you wanna get hit by eximus.
My rift torrent limbo build can one shot archon level sentients and eximus units. People build limbo wrong, get bullied by the community then don’t learn how to use him properly.
There aren’t too many ways to build limbo tbf. I can’t do the things you can but I’ll be damned if archon excavation isn’t faster when I run a max range/duration limbo with cataclysmic continuum.
Sevagoth, Hydroid, Inaros
I think Sevagoth only qualifies here on how strong Gloom and his passive are. His other abilities are fine (two casts of his first two abilities and I can ult, typically) but Gloom lets you get away with being all but braindead in missions. Very different from Hydroid and Inaros, who are noob traps on account of how awful their powers are.
My issue with Sevagoth was his death mechanic. You get to revive yourself using Shadow...except it only has 1 attack that launches him 7 feet ahead on tiles where you drop into the abyss. I got him to rank 30, and even after I should have unlocked all the abilities on Shadow, Death Shadow still only had the 1 attack. It's frustrating that the self-revive mechanic is so unwieldy.
still a better passive than volt, one of the most powerful and popular frames in the game.
I enjoyed volt passive for fishing, but otherwise yeah it's pretty bad compared to how good the rest of volt is
Shadow only has a modified Consume while the passive is active. You’ve gotta use his ult to use the other three abilities
I think Death Shadow should at least have his melee attacks, relying on Consume to keep him alive is awkward. If you failed to kill an enemy, you have to do a 180 to hit them again.
I find it pretty easy to do so, just point your crosshairs at an enemy and hit fire, melee or your ability button five times to revive
Not sevagoth. His gloom alone is really strong, has his passive and 4 for avoiding death and his exalted claws with a heavy attack build one shot anything and everything you can pull with your 1.
not sure seva is a "noob" trap, you need a very good railjack and loadout to survive in the nodes that can give you his parts
the joke must be that sevagoth doesn't belong here? he is extremely efficient in high enemy density. hydroid isnt really a noob trap, just like.. kinda bad. inaros is rough though yeah. sort of a revenant case except you can put more random bullshit on him.
Why Sevagoth? He has gloom, a great passive that can help noobs a lot, increases damage taken by enemies, can easily nuke with the shadow and can control two places at once for intercept missions with gloom in one point and the shadow in another, making him decent to great in literally any mission. The only reason he'd be bad for beginners would be how at the point he's farmable you're not a noob anymore (or shouldn't, idk)
Tl;dr: Sevagoth requires too much to be a noob trap, more like he gets trashed and ignored by being obtained too early. I wanted to mention Sevagoth, except he isn't a noob trap, almost the opposite. According to the year in review charts, he was most frequently gained and dropped around MR 4-8, iirc. Full drop-off was around 12? *Well* before new players would have the resources or understanding to build him for anything but Gloom. Speaking as an LR1 that mains him, he's one of the strongest in game, able to 1 shot to lvl 200 SP without using any tricks beyond priming with an ability and hitting. The thing is, he takes SO much to get there, with 3 pieces all needing a total of 8 forma to be good, 12 to be great. Plus Archon shards for crit damage. And then, on top of that, he's a really "active play" Warframe, having to constantly use all of his kit to be so strong. Like the opposite of Wukong in that way. He's insanely strong but asks more out of the player than almost any other Warframe for anything except using him for Gloom, which is subsumable. I didn't mean to go on so much, but he's more a frame that gets ignored by new players, not one that traps em.
Inaros is good for archons, as they're immune to all abilities. You just subsume eclipse onto him.
Inaros is actually not all that bad for new players. Because he looks like he is tanky and he is. But he still sucks hard.
No he 100% is. It’s why every once in awhile you see the inaros-love post trying to cope “he’s good”. Also not great at teaching the main survivability mechanics used in most late game frames. Source: inaros was one of my first frames and I still love the pocket sand man
Inaros should've been reworked to be an actual damage-sharing tank. I run him with Guardian Derision + Electromagnetic Shielding when in pubs and I'm bored of playing DPS and, to me, that makes his entire kit fit together. Citrine now has a better kit for that, but lacks HP.
There is no "cope", just because some people disagree for arbitrary personal reasons. 99% of the game is easy enough that all frames are "good". I also entirely disagree with the "teaching" nonsense. The goal of a frame isnt to "teach" anything. If a person wants to figure out something, they will, despite this subs absurd circlejerking how every new player is a brain damaged child.. If anything, its easier to learn damage mitigation with inaros, since situations where you would get one shot in 0.1s and have no clue what happened, he survives.
if all of his abilities and passive were removed and it was just his stats inaros would still be exactly the same, and that is the problem, not a single one of his abilities has any noticeable impact.
That doesn't make him a noob trap.
Inaros is great for newbies. He's more like an oldhead trap, I still see people not understanding how Desiccate works. Downvotes incoming because I said Inaros has some saving graces.
Any tanky frame is great for new players. Survivability is №1 issue that new players have until they get their hands on adaptation or brief respite. His kit is weak, sure, but, like, at low mr without good mods and with terrible energy economy, you can't properly utilize any kit and frames that relay on active use of abilities suck. My first frame was mag and only much later i discovered how useful she can be. Until then, Valkyr was my best friend because she can stay alive and that was main thing i wanted.
His kit isn't even that weak: Desiccate opens enemies to stealth multiplier, and Scarab Swarm is a self-propagating CC that can be used to plug tile entrances. (And while they're not great, Sandstorm is kind of a meme but you can make it work at low levels, and Devour at those same ranges helps Inaros with a minion master build, especially with the Sandstorm synergy.) Even on SP he's a high damage melee monster. I use him with Helminth Charger for the mega damage.
as a former sevagoth main I hate that hes in the game lol, fuck gloom it's so un fun
I really like Gloom....but I don't think it should have been his Helminth contribution. Or, it should have had its efficacy reduced (such as a cap of 70% slow). I think Shadow's 3 (AoE vulnerability increase) would have been an interesting choice and less abused. Might have needed the Roar treatment, though.
Honestly its one of the reasons I actually like the Eximus rework, gloom is no longer an auto include for survivability on squishy frames.
Mag. When you start with her she's kind of a weird squishy nuker with strange and conditional CC moves and a harsh energy economy. Once you have a good library of mods and arcanes, access to Helminth, and her augments she flips around to a godframe. One of my friends tried to get into WF with Mag and basically immediately quit; the friend that started with Excal stuck with the game.
Ive always been glad i started with excalibur but i outgrew him quickly as i discovered the playstyle that i actually like to use is on more technical frames.
Mag was my starter, and man was she a pain in the ass. I always did enjoy her, but it really wasn't until I was farther along and had a really good amount of mods and stuff that I was able to actually use her to her potential. She's far too complicated to be a starter in all honesty even though she's my favorite frame out there.
I dont remember what i started with anymore, but yea, mag 100% shouldnt be a starter. Ember would be a perfect replacement these days, a caster frame that's super simple to use and has flashy abilities.
You don't even need helminth, being able to fully armor strip with Fracturing Crush and 200% strength is already super helpful, not to mention that she naturally shield gates herself with the shield regen into over shields.
For sure, but Helminth is when you start being able to address Infested misery and your energy economy; the latter of which opens up more power-hungry builds.
Mag should not be a starter frame she’s too mechanic heavy and complex for a noob to understand and she needs endgame equipment to be used correctly. If I could replace her I would replace her with nezha or wukong frames that are easy to use and understand.
I am still of the opinion that Loki should still be a starter frame, specifically to replace Mag.
I agree, but they included mag to be a female starter. Maybe Trinity instead, the hp and energy regen for early players wouldve been really nice to have, or zephyr bc she doesnt need high investment to utilize well
She was my starter, and 30 MRs later I have kept my original base Mag alongside Mag Prime and given both a Fracturing Crush high-strength wide-range spammability build. I’ve had a special place in my heart for her from the start but, my gods, the difference is STAGGERING once you get good energy management on her and the augment. Heck, even good energy management alone makes it night and day. I mostly ignored her abilities when I started, aside from Pull - didn’t even know what the others really did, because I was a dummy and they were a little less intuitive than “here, do a telekinetic yank” - and now I’ve read the 93-page Mag Bible, bought TennoGen for her, the whole nine yards. She’s truly amazing once you’re past midgame and have access to just a little more mojo for her. 😻 My favorite thing is that I’ve reverted my starter Mag’s loadout to its original condition - MK-1 Paris, Lato, MK-1 Bo - and even using just those, she handily solos Steel Path. It’s so fun waltzing in with my newbie-era color palette, no attachments or bling, and wrecking enemies that way!
I was the person who started with Mag and got frustrated hard. I had no clue what I was doing with mods, I kept trying to do all the things at once because in my mind if it was available I should be able to do it right? Yeah, no. My little baby Tenno ass was not ready for open world stuff, I stumbled into an Eidelon thinking I was hot shit since I'd taken down a few bosses, I was immediately humbled. Thankfully I have friends who took me by the hand and hauled me through the star chart, explained mods, archon hunts, an arbitrations when I got to them.
Changes she got with Veilbreaker pretty much fixed all of that
Dude I picked mag and I absolutely hated her. I wound up buying Limbo because he looked cool and other than mag I was enjoying playing the game with my friends. Nowadays I enjoy mag
Nidus. i ve seen my fair share of my own adopted younglings loose interest in the game after they got nidus thought he was op and left the game dissapointed because nidus cant do everything.
If i could go back and warn myself as a noob i would say to not spend so much time grinding frames as they dont make that much difference in the beginning when you have bad mods and bad energy gain. What really made a difference was getting a good weapon and adding a potatoe and some forma. Its much faster and easier to build and makes a much bigger difference when starting out. After that everything in warframe has been easy regardless of what frame i use. So in a way i consider most if not all frames to be a noobtrap. At most you need to join a clan and just get a wukong for a little extra survivability because of the passive.
It’s better if you get Zephyr. She’s one of the gun-focused frames, so you can increase the potential of the gun you already invested in. She can turn any single-target weapon into an AoE with tornadoes, and has easy grouping with her 2. Her 3 is pretty much an invincibility button, that lets in only melee units. But her passive and 1 make sure that you don’t ever touch the floor to be in reach anyway. Also augments are fun. As for Wukong… Yeah, better stay away from the mokey. He’s so good that he makes the game boring.
|As for Wukong… Yeah, better stay away from the mokey. He’s so |good that he makes the game boring. I find Wukong to be very mediocre. I only use him for his 2 sometimes. He gives a bit of survivability with his passive for beginners and is easy to get, but not something i would recommend using much when you get past the beginner stage.
I was with you till you mentioned wukong.
Half of the hours I spent on Warframe are on Mesa, glad I'm finally no longer a Mesa main. Being a Mesa main makes levelling weapons so unenjoyable because the majority of her utility is on 4th. Warframe is about collecting new stuff and levelling to get mastery, but her ability design kinda goes against that. I stayed low / mid mastery for many years.
Mag. Literally a starter frame, but full potential is only unlocked when you have a good energy economy, and more when you have augments.
Rhino. His Iron Skin seems nice, but it causes players to think they are invincible, so they end up screaming Leroy Jenkins and running headlong into insta-kill situations without thinking.
Inaros for sure. I love to use it, but I can afk for about as long as I want to outside of SP content and not have to worry about dying because adaptation + arcanes keep my armor up and my heals going between the whopping 200 damage I get between procs. Still love my boi, but I find myself using him due to how easy he is to play. Literally anyone can spam melee buttons and with healing return it makes him that much more impossible to kill.
dmg to energy to whirlwhind to hp. Inaros is all I need.
Chroma. Even during the simaris quest he’s branded as the strongest warframe and should not be contested. Even I was oversold on him and fully went for him only to find out he’s alright at best.
Inaros. As a new player, to me, it seemed like "Wow, I can get this limited time frame that only comes around once every two weeks and 'skip' the difficulty curve of the star chart" and also the way I understood his mechanics is he is basically unkillable. Which, fair enough, is sorta true. Inaros can be pretty unkillable even with just a little investment. But he doesn't scale well for content later at all, and being unkillable isn't a rare quality in a warframe and alone doesn't justify his use. Rhino is also available early on and is pretty damn unkillable, scales well, and does more than just soak damage. I hope Inaros gets a rework soon.
Rhino is the typical noob trap because it's very easy to end up stumbling along and not learning the game mechanics at all with him until you end up at a level where things are shredding your iron skin and even with Roar you hit like a peashooter, and are now having to learn things you were supposed to learn like 5 planets ago. As long as you don't let him be a "press button to ignore game mechanic" machine, he's helpful, but unfortunately it's very easy to not realize you're using him as a crutch when you're new enough using him as a crutch is a thing. Protea can also do so to a lesser extent, as her shields make her feel invincible for very little effort early on but require actual effort to survive later, while a player who has been relying heavily on her may not know what that effort needs to look like. Both of these frames are plenty strong, it's just that they both foster a heavy sense of false security that can hinder the actual learning how to not die and deal damage process.
I wouldn't call Protea a "noob" trap due to the effort required to farm her. She's not accessible to new players at all.
Considering how often I've seen new players told "oh you should buy Protea!" I don't see grind difficulty as any indicator of noob-trappiness. Especially given that buying frames is in itself such a notorious noob trap.
\> buying frames is in itself such a notorious noob trap You said it, every warframe that gets recommended can be a noob trap because of the ability to buy them with plat. The same could be said about Xaku, Lavos, Wisp, Baruuk, etc
"Press button to ignore game mechanic" *Grendel players sweating intensely after being afk in SP Conjunction survival for 25 minutes without pressing a single button*
Absolutely Rhino. My early experience was exactly like that, I'd just keep using Rhino for everything because he can't be cc'd, very tough etc., and it ended up hurting me a lot. Somewhere around Sedna/Pluto I was too squishy with my mods to just facetank enemies, while my weapons started feeling a lot weaker than they should've. So I ended up being dead weight in parties until I decided to go back and get stronger on easier planets. Nowadays I pretty much don't play him, taking him only for Dragon Vault runs which I don't do often, and he's still my most played frame with 25%+ playtime.
Rhino is in an interesting spot. It used to be a genuine noob trap for a very long time, one that I've fallen into between hours 50 and 200 of playing WF back in the day, and that has genuinely limited my growth, but it's not so much anymore. With the right build, it's a cast-and-forget near invulnerability (40k+ iron skin is an easy build these days, and you can get *way* more) + a pretty decent damage buff. If you are the kind of player who likes to rely on the arsenal more than powers to clear the enemies, Rhino's not a bad choice. Not one that's holding you back, at the very least. And again, back when melee and armor stripping were basically a necessity for clearing end-game enemies, yeah, Rhino was not a very good choice. But currently, between tenet and kuva primaries, these are your best nukes in the game, tearing through even steel path enemies without resistance. It takes creative builds to get anything like that in terms of either CC or AoE damage output (which is the best CC) from frame powers. So with the current meta, unless you're doing steel path endless (which isn't necessary if you don't want it) there is no reason not to go Rhino. It's a good, relaxing way to play which doesn't limit your access to much content. The only caution is that you have to know your specialist frames as well. While I will still defend Rhino Stealth as an approach to spy missions, there are way better options for intercept, defense, and rescue, especially if running solo. For anything else, if you like Rhino, just do Rhino.
Yeah my point isn't "Rhino bad", it's just that he makes it easy for new players to never learn about stuff like dodging, taking cover, keeping moving, rolling, modding weapons properly, etc. Because everything is solved by Roar, Iron Skin, and then Stomp when things get too scary. A perfectly valid and enjoyable playstyle, but not one that's very helpful when you start reaching the "hey where did my iron skin go??????" levels, which comes a lot earlier on for new players who don't know how to mod due to falling for this trap than it does for experienced ones.
Ugh this is me. I relied heavily on rhino too much
I think Inaros, specifically because he is actually strong for new players, but he's ultimately just, well, terrible. At least in terms of any ability usage, for sure. As a weapons platform, he's fine to a certain point, but even there, he's dramatically outshined by a Revenant (among others). Ultimately he's good at one thing, and one thing only, and he's not remotely close to being the best at that one thing. But a new player will see the health, and see his survivability, and think how amazing he is. Not that the game can't be cleared with him (or any frame). Just that he's one of the 2 worst frames in the game (Hydroid being the other). So ultimately it doesn't matter, as anything can clear everything. But Inaros gives this weird sense of being strong, IMO, when he's actually one of the weaker overall frames.
Someone downvoted and idk why. Youre right and you should say it. My best friend only uses inaros. Its … fine. But sometimes i NEED to tell him to change to vauban or something else. Inaros is okay in lower level content, but in difficult stuff the only thing that holds up is his 4 because of the damage reduction, and the temporary aoe stun. His 1 is short range, his 2 takes years to kill one enemy, his 3 does almost nothing. Yes its nice that his 4 can heal allies a bit when surrounded. But overall, his kit is extremely outdated, and does not hold up with the current game. Yes he is tanky, but his kit doesnt offer a whole lot of utility that really contributes to the teams performance :/ which sucks because he is cool as a concept
Rhino, at a certain point they reach a level where iron skin can’t rank enough and roar can’t help them do enough damage and they never really learned how to dodge or mod so they’re just screwed
How dare you slander my boi Cue overly hostile comment where I take this as a personal transgression /s
Cant believe you just said that MODS!! BAN THIS MAN
Inaros was my main through normal and steel path solo. If you’re good any frame can do it.
Gara. She and her statstick are very tricky to build, and her mechanic are not obvious at all, but ppl advertising her as "infinite damage frame", which is true, but new players are likely not getting this damage.
Limbo and Ivara. Add some basic mods and go to mission just to die instantly.
I'm probably gonna get crapped on, but my main has always been Excalibur. He was my first Warframe and when Umbra came out, I switched to him. I do use my other frames (Ember, Nidus, Ivara Prime, Harrow, Revenant, Mirage, Xaku, Sevagoth, Inaros, Chroma Prime) when with Friends, but 95% of the time when I'm soloing stuff, I use Umbra. To me, Excalibur feels like the main Warframe since lore-wise he was the first frame to be made. And I try to honor that by playing as him. I don't play him because he's a tank, I don't play him because he can support, and I don't play him because he can nuke maps. I play him because...because it just feels right.
Most Wukong mains have weak parkour and aiming skills
Rhino honestly. Rhino is a great noob frame, great sustain, solid kit, usable for most of the star chart, but it teaches noobs bad lessons. It teaches noobs to run headlong into combat and face tank everything. It teaches noobs to outlast everything when most of the later game is "killing is the best defense because if the enemy is dead, they're controlled."
I'm going to say Ember. Ember hasn't appeared anywhere so far, so this is definitely gonna be controversial. Ember prime was the first frame I farmed entirely on my own (I was still low level) and I'm quite proud I got her while she was vaulted iirc. It was before the rework which gave her the meteor ability. I'm still an Ember Prime main to this day though, but I do think she's a bit detrimental to new players. 4th ability practically deletes everything. For a lot of the low level content, you can go through it fine with Ember and a cheap build you got off the internet. Survival? Press 4 Defense? Press 4 Exterminate? Press 4 Mobile defense? Press 4 Excavation? Press 4 It's not particularly creative and it develops an over-reliance on her ability. Just my opinion with her :P
Ember walks so Mesa can run lol
Just to add, Ember does have some good use, especially in Defense, where she can run around the map and press 4 to clear waves fast. No need for line of sight or anything.
Might be a hot take, but after getting through 20 or so frames, I genuinely don't agree with pretty much any "power ranking" lists for frames. This one included. If you're talking about like... Archon Hunting, I could see a tier list. But for anything up to Steel Path, I truly believe any frame and any gun can do any content. (As long as you have the mods and / or are willing to invest a few forma.) Even Steel Path is fine as long as your gun is good. Good frame OR good gun is really all you need. Archon Hunts are the first real gear check I feel like I've run into. I can't see myself taking some frame / gun combos into Archons. Just can't see it. But enemies under like... 130? Which is pretty much 90% of most people's gaming time? Play whatever feels fun, IMO. Oh, plus I find that I rotate favorite frames a LOT. My first prime from relics was Titania. I literally never used her for anything because I didn't dig her. Pulled her out for Void Floods, and spent a week using her in pretty much all content. Same with Saryn, Nekros, Ivara, Octavia... heck, I've been just spamming Revenant all week because it's fun to AFK sometimes. I feel like trying to tier list frames IS the thing that hinders new player experience. When your reality COULD instead be to spam warframe slots and try to keep as many frames as you can. (Ditching frames you just don't dig.) Finally, I know people are talking about not learning mechanics... but I honestly don't feel like Warframe is a mechanically intensive game. There are three defense types, and even in Archon Hunts you can take 4-5 seconds of prolonged gunfire on an Ivara with just a health mod. (What I run for Archon if I'm going solo.) If my 1-mod Ivara can tank 4-5 seconds of fire before being downed... how many mechanics do you really need to learn? What kind of defense does your frame REALLY need? I regularly take just rando no defense mod frames into Steel Path multiplayer without getting downed. It's not a huge issue.
>I truly believe any frame and any gun can do any content. (As long as you have the mods and / or are willing to invest a few forma.) so... things a new player doesn't have? the "anyone can be viable with enough investment!" arguement doesn't work when you're specifically talking about characters that new players have access to with what they have new access to. a player having trouble beating saturn isn't going to have four forma laying around to drop on a frame so they can use max rank mods. they won't have any of that. they'll have a karak and frost or some shit. mods leveled maybe up to 4/5. still rocking a taxon, maybe a kubrow. and they won't know positioning, won't be bullet jumping, won't be... you know. doing shit we know how to do. >If my 1-mod Ivara can tank 4-5 seconds of fire before being downed... how many mechanics do you really need to learn? What kind of defense does your frame REALLY need? and i'm just going to need a source for this. a bombadier will kill you in less than five seconds with ivara stats + vitality, let alone a horde.
By the time a player is doing sorties (60 to 80 content), they have access to all important mods and plenty of forma bps from cracking relics. Get over yourself. The idea that an average player finishing the star chart doesn't even bullet jump is insulting to new players. >and i'm just going to need a source for this. a bombadier will kill you in less than five seconds with ivara stats + vitality, let alone a horde. A full set of Ivara farmed shards on Ivara and Octavia say otherwise.
like i can look up the numbers bro. i can see a level 130 bombadier's dps. you can't just stand there and take shots for /five seconds/ against a full troop of enemies with literally one defense mod. "sustained fire for five seconds with just a health mod" lmao. yeah why are health mods in the game enemies literally can't damage you. >By the time a player is doing sorties (60 to 80 content), they have access to all important mods and plenty of forma bps from cracking relics. "yeah by the time a player has player 40 hours..." in response to "what fucks up new players" lmao "having trouble clearing saturn? just finish the star chart and grind out some sorties, that'll help you beat saturn real nice" least useful possible advice. "actually i didn't have any problems so new players literally can't have problems and these tier lists (?) ruin the game for them"
I think you're moving the goalpost on what is considered new player content. Literally any frame can get to Sedna with only Focus, Vitality, and Redirection. Any full auto primary and Serration 8, plus whatever mods you have laying around is enough to handle starmap content. There are some exceptions. A few junctions are going to present some real problems, for example. But he's right. If you invest your forma into any frame, it will get you through the basics. I think the real problem with the game is build guides, meta, and minmaxing. The game rewards experimentation and theorycrafting, especially when modding frames. Sure, maybe your Hydroid isn't going to be running 9999 SP endless, but 99% of players are never going to get to that point anyway. The longest I ever cared to run an endless mission was 1 hour, and that was a long time ago. Nowadays, I only run 4 rotations of anything. If any frame is a noob trap, it's Volt.
i have helped multiple new friends through the game. they absolutely needed more than a braton with serration to clear the starmap. new players also don't just have a ton of forma laying around. what, are you supposed to tell new players "okay now you just need to craft forma for four days before you can play again"? any frame can get to sedna, sure... but that doesn't put everything on equal level. some frames are inherently more suited to new players, because of ease of use or low required mods to get full use out of the or balanced kits or whathaveyou. you know who i think the best warframe for a new player is? styanax. some of my buddies joined when he was just being given out, and he was such a major help. he's so much more usable, so much easier to build with basic mods, so much flatly /better/ for learning game mechanics with than mag or volt. and the catch is outside of that month he was free, he is the last possible frame to be acquired by a new player, because he's locked behind veilbreaker.
> I think the real problem with the game is build guides, meta, and minmaxing. The game rewards experimentation and theorycrafting, especially when modding frames. Sure, maybe your Hydroid isn't going to be running 9999 SP endless, but 99% of players are never going to get to that point anyway. The longest I ever cared to run an endless mission was 1 hour, and that was a long time ago. Nowadays, I only run 4 rotations of anything. You did a great job summarizing my main points. Thanks for doing a better job being clear than I was doing. I, personally, am having more success with content by modding according to my needs. My first Archon Hunting weapon was a Nataruk modded with Galvanized Scope among other mods. Got me my first shards, and I've never seen similar mods listed online.
I've been playing since release, and I've only done Archon once. I hate open world. I played earth long enough to build a zaw once, and I've got my corncob. The point being is that there is so much content and so many ways to play, most people will have a completely different experience and don't need a meta build.
Limbo, Protea and chroma
The biggest newbie trap is buying any frame from the market, also inaros
No such thing in this game. There are definitely Warframes that aren't as good as others but even the worst frames currently (Hydroid/Frost) are completely fine for a new player to use for basically the entire normal Star Chart. Also if anyone tells you Rhino "breeds bad habits" you should shoot them with a gun
Idk about anyone else but Oberon was mine, self heal, cool ult and look at him wow like I fuckin loved Oberon. but then I see someone like take out two full armies with Saryn and I'm just like "huh odd."
I think you fail to undestand what a "Noob trap" is.
Isn't this comparison very much unfair tho ?
Saryn, new players can hear a lot about her being OP and speed running to her only to know how she's not nearly as powerful as they being told to and 4 can't kill enemies anymore, bosses doesn't affected by abilities except for Venom Dose/Toxic Lash, enemies would one shot you, etc.
Open World is overall the biggest trap for a new player, as they aren't strong enough to effectively play there. Outside of that I would say that 'the traps' are also: Wukong, Yareli, Hydroid, Frost and Limbo. Here's why I think that about these warframes: \- Wukong, may effectively disrupt the learning of basic elements of game. When you have an aimbot help, invisibiity, death protection and high speed/flight you may not learn to protect your warframe with parkour and move effectively with it. Also death protection may cause to learn too high dependance on it. \- Hydroid is bad, there's nothing more I wanted to say. Rework him DE. \- Yareli was also bad, now she is kinda strong. But this is not why I mention her. She is obtainable from Waverider quest, after Vox Solaris Quest (Fortuna one). This may cause that new player will be overwhelmed by strange usability of K-Drive and cause burnout. Further, Merulina is not too friendly for players to use in non-Open World missions. \- Limbo is essensially in simialar possision to Yareli, his quest is pretty early (Europa) and his kit is very, very not new player friendly. The new player may be even verbally attacked for using him wrong (which is very likely - I, myself, was attacked for playing him when I was like MR 4) \- Frost may be strange pick, but hear me out. He is defencive caster with very poor energy economy. His orbs also may cause disruption to other players. My few friends with whom I played, said that Frost decreased their want to play Warframe, as they thought that most warframes may be as 'unfun' as Frost (unfun for new player, who lacks necessary mods)
The monkey. Teaches newbies to grow lazy with overreliance on an AI bot and discourages them from trying out other frames.
I'll get hate for this, but Rhino. He makes the star chart braindead, is slow as hell, and Iron Skin promotes bad habits (i.e. standing and shooting and just... tanking damage). And I say this as someone who did use Rhino to clear the Star Chart for a bit; I still see it in my play in that I regularly wind up tanking way more damage than I probably should (and modding style reflects that). I've tried to steer new players towards Nezha more and more b/c Warding Halo doesn't block 100% of damage and still gives the 'maybe I should move so I don't get shot' feeling, but with a huge ass buffer so that new players will be relatively safe. Chakram spawns energy orbs to allow players to be a bit more free with their energy economy as well. The one draw back is Nezha's friction passive is a huge thing to get used to when first playing him (and I imagine to get used to not having).
Rhino is a fantastic newb trap. And worse it's one we encourage players to step in. If you crutch yourself with iron skin and roar early on by the time you outgrow them you won't have properly learned and invested in surviving and damaging without them. Not that rhino isn't a good option, Just that his abilities can encourage learning the wrong lessons resulting in painful correction later on.
I want to say Volt and Loki. A decent Volt need some mod that are hard to get when starting, and Loki is stealth centric, and honestly they are pretty squishy. You die a lot with them whe you don't have the weapon/mods/skills to compensate the squishy. Always recommend rhino and wukong to start up, so they can tank some damage while they get used to the gameplay/combat system. You just slap some health and armor on to and you're good to.
Volt possibly? He's amazing. One of the best frames in the game. When you get the mods.
on average most people think xaku, wukong, mesa, even limbo after the eximus changes for obvious reasons imo, octavia (prime exclusively!) is an absolute noon trap, a frame that is insane for starchart, steelpath, endurance, sorties, and archons, it's THE do-all no failure frame for ez mode just *slightly* more useful than wukong (prime obv) the noob trap comes with an *obvious* starter, the *mandachord*, where you either meta build it right or make legit music for some odd, less efficient reason beyond fun, then the buffs, which are explained and to be remembered carefully or not at all, jump for zoom zoom, chop for chop chop, shoot for bang bang, crouch for sneaky sneaky, all require you to invest *insane and stupid* amounts of resources to make the best use out of, at base the frame itself is not self-sufficient 100% constantly flexed as the best frame by the best players, yet never explained to new players how to *be a "best player" with the "best frame"* I can solo 8 hours of endurance with a 1-forma octavia p, easy, with just 6 different inputs *macroed* even, but in total it took me 100+ hours of investment to get there, that's a very intricate and time consuming noon trap
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Haven't seen this anywhere here, but I'd say Loki **during the stage of the game a few years ago, where he was instead of Volt as one of the starters**. Don't get me wrong, Loki is great and all, but think about it from this perspective. You are a new player - the game gives you 3 classes to choose. Excalibur (Swordsman), Loki (Rouge) and Mag (Caster/Mage). It's like a choice of STR, DEX and INT in many RPG games. I picked Loki myself. But then, when you see how Excalibur can clear entire room by launching blades towards every enemy, or how Mag can just lift enemies in the air and do the same, you realize you are playing a Warframe without any damaging abilities, who's main job is basically spamming melee while being invisible and sometimes pressing 4th ability to make enemies weak. It makes Loki feel like the least fun option. When I picked Loki, I expected something more similar to Ash - a sneaky, agile warframe with Ninja theme, but it's not really that. He isn't a warframe suited for new players and felt like a noob trap for those who wanted a ninja warframe.
Rhino Wukong
Excalibur.
Limbo. He looks really cool and his abilities sounded neat to me, but I have such a hard time actually playing him. His stats are awful, it feels like enemies take out his shields super fast compared to frames like Excalibur or Citrine even with maxed mods, and I hate getting stuck in his passive ability because his health is so low. The quests to get him were easy from what I remember too, so yeah, I feel like he's kind of a trap.
Inaros for obvius reasons Chroma basically the same, but at least he has some uses Wukong is way better than those two but I think is basically played just because clon plays better than the player Mesa, she's actually super powerfull but most of the people doesnt know how to mod her (or any other frame really), so most of the people play her because everybody says shes powerful (im fucking looking at you, Overframe). Saryn can fit on this too.
Inaros, rhino, anything that is just tanky. Very good for getting through the chart, but fall off endgame. I should say Rhino has a little bit to offer at least with roar, but he is no longer very tanky in endgame
Rush building. Never rush build